yeah, but poor job on the fotos ;)
fenn-fest: when's your birthday?
stats: Rayh - seen 6 days ago - "brb" ...
* alex_joni drops a needle
hey alex. Fun at the fest.
skkwrk_galesburg is now known as SkunkWorks
I can't stay up as late as the emc guys though :) I don't think they are human.
04:45 < SkunkWorks> I can't stay up as late as the emc guys though :) I don't
think they are human.
it is 8:47 here
I pass out at 10:00 :)
me too.. but am ;)
it's almost 5AM here.. still kinda fresh
did you get the pictures of the mazak running?
from fenn? yeah
sorry.. my ssh is laggy ;)
the wheels are turning :)
turret I mean
I met fenn, Jepler, rayh, cradek, jonE, roland, steveP to name a few.
turret? you mean tool changer?
almost - jmk was working on it
then it's as good as done;)
sounds like quite a crowd there.. too bad I missed it
I only got a few people mixed up while I was there.
got to see the thread cutting
sat in on mach demo. I still like emc :)
just because? or any reason to say that?
honestly - It seems powerfull - I just don't like the interface.
I am hooked on axis
this is only a test.
did ray do a hit and run?
03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/ (6 files): misc ladder logic and HAL work - tool unclamp, feedhold, interlocking, spindle stuff
03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/modmath.c: changed underscores to hyphens in hal names
03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/ (tc.h tp.c):
an "obvious" way to improve blends a lot. spiral looks good now.
needs more testing.
03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/tp.c: fix previous fix to work right with feed override
i've got the feeling that stepper motors commonly have an inductance of about 3mH. i've also heard that the pwm frequency of stepper drivers are about 20kHz
am i totally wrong?
is that pretty much how it is?
Hi - Bo^Dick
another beautiful day here
i've figured out that the standard pwm frequency of 20kHz is only suitable for the slow decay-mode
20kHz is too slow when the fast decay-mode is used in stepper drivers
this should be the situation for geckodrives as well!
03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/ (5 files): toolchanger almost works... tool prep commands work (locate the proper tool), tool change works but must be initiated manually, and the old tool is not yet returned to the proper slot.
03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/iotask/ioControl.cc: toolchanger almost works... tool prep commands work (locate the proper tool), tool change works but must be initiated manually, and the old tool is not yet returned to the proper slot.
03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/modmath.c: toolchanger almost works... tool prep commands work (locate the proper tool), tool change works but must be initiated manually, and the old tool is not yet returned to the proper slot.
i guess some of you use geckodrives?
not me personally but here at cnc workshop I saw some machines using them.
I watched Steve Stallings talk several people out of buying his gecko board not because they're innately bad, but because they were overpowered and too expensive compared to the machines the people want to run (desktop mills)
03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/ (demo_mazak.hal demo_mazak.ini): fixed a sign problem, now the spindle turns the right direction ;-)
that's probably very true
test version of the jog speed control for axis: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/places.tcl
cradek: ^^ try this out if you can
juist "wish" it
* jepler showers
that looks great
i can easily prove that 20kHz isn't suitable for the fast decay-mode: http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/comparison.gif
I should shower too
or that there's a bug in your simulator or a bug in your model or that you're misinterpreting the result
well the lower image clearly shows the inefficiency of having 20kHz at the fast decay-mode
this is precisely why i'd like to know how gecko's do it
do they really use fast decay and 20kHz?
i strongly doubt so
so buy one and reverse-engineer it if that is legal to do in the country where you reside.
i didn't mean that of course
has anyone used software raid1?
I have fooled around with it... (just a little)
chinamill: any idea how to change the IDE speeds..
any one use GAIM chat
dmessier... what's going on?
dmessier... what's the prospect of jobs?
could you pass as a maintenance manager... ??
I'm too young looking to do that.
so am i
again especially... i was 20 the last time i did that job
I'm 27... I look ~20... maybe a little older than 20.
27 in a month
have to know and understand cnc machines... whats your paperwork say you are??
I'm... a programmer/database guy by work... I've got a B.Sc in Mathematical Sciences... I've got a post graduate certification for Forensic Accounting (accounting and computer related
I've got my own CNC lathe and mill?
I know how to code gcode by hand.
i just got Xnap running ont the puppy linux on laptop... HURRAY...
sounds like you might be able to pull it off... lol
whens' the fireworks? Sunday Night? or Monday Night?
where.. cne are sun and mon.. ashbridges bay i think are sun
I just heard yesterday that "the beaches" is being renamed to "the beach"
I was like WTF... are you serious... and my buddy was.
thats a bichc
appearantly there was a low turn out to the vote to change things... 60% voted yes.. 40% voted no...
the city is going to the BIRDS
who kno's how to config GAIM??
dmessier: what's there to configure?
dmessier, uh... it's not hard at all... hit control-a add an account or two
what server... just irc.freenode.net???
what's with the geckodrive G-Rex G100 now?
how would I use that with emc?
still no go
ok i got a freenode server i think... but no channel options... ; (
do im an idiot
this seem VERY nice...
dmess, ever going to the pickering flea market?
once in a while..
trying this out
sorry... im done playin
* A-L-P-H-A puts dmess in the corner for a time out
but..... but.... ok
10 mintues... not another word... or I'll make it 20!
i wanna set up a hdd free machine for my son... his big NEED is msn..
i just downloaded CLASSICAL GAS... by masin williams.... AWESOME tune...
so ... another busy week
dmess: need to run msn on Linux ?
think I found myself a nice little robot weld cell for not too much cash
cell, powersource, robot, all the gear and the PLC etc for 5K
my son does...
or gaim, amsn etc..
I never figured out what msn was ...
thought it was just a search portal and news service?
micro soft messenger
like skype then?
well no phone... but voice msgs...
similar to that but using proprietary protocol of course
so, just irc then?
skype seems cool...basically... buddy list...
skype is cool,
most peoples have that problem migrating to linux, having ols msn accounts ..
GAIM support it and yahoo messenger too
I like jabber too
iv not tried it .. but it is supported as is ICQ
drin drin giacus
ive tried to write Jabber applications from time to time .. but the XML usually annoys me in the end
I also have an old msn account, using bitlblee.orc on irc right now
but have no file transfer support
its enough for me
just see it like another irc channel
gaicus... you use Gaim??
I used it for years
now I just use emacs for all, mail, irc, IM, sms, etc.. :)
but gaim work fine, yeah.
what about that hehe
nice little arm...
nice toy ..
end of arm looks COMPLEX...
does it ahave a disconet ther for other eoa attatchments???
looks like you'd have to do a wrist-ectomy to alter it
giacus` is now known as giacus
ALPHa... how big is you mill???
uh k4ts was here ? :(
I didnt seen her..
dmessier: dmess (n=root...) thats is bad
im running from RAM disk... ; )
you can have it all.. 1 reboot and im back
I meant is bad to join irc as root .. you could join as normal user
live cd has no login..
maybe we're sayng the same thing :)
it does return ROOT to me too...
su dmess should work I guess
you should get dmess$
if not its a bad live cd ;P
giacus... i see what you mean... but for some reason.. it STILL comes up ROOT
i am logged in as denis but whoami says root..
I seen ..
another day, another dollar
another day, another .. debit
and another dinner
should I go back to work for a couple of hours, run some jobs ...
or .. option B,
pick /b in multiple choice tests... ; )
d) All the above
so quite a fun weekl ... bought more gear :)
mainly boring stuff, but still ...
welding gear ...
i like burnin stuff too
Kempii 4000 series welders and feeders
you used the plural sense.... how many did youy buy??
just two of them, and soem ESAB ventilated masks
ESAB make nice plasma's
i love th plasma cutter
Hypertherm are nicer
we have a motomaster...
going to look at this robot early next week
thats got a Kempi weld source ...
its an ABB 1400, about 1997/98
old, but not dead
we hacke a welding bot to make a robotic deburring unit out of it
about like that one... '98
wait, I have some pictures ...
added a pressure sensitive unit.. and different end of arm.. tools...
it t/c's by itself... but operator intervention req'd to swap belts and bobs
[18:50:05] <robin_sz> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/upload/robot/
2nd pic shows the 'bot
rest is just the small weld cell it comes with ...
as long as you have no health and safety commitee ... it looks pretty sweet... WE cant HAVE anything exposed...
its retarded... WE are being legislated OUT of business
we have GAP-BED lathes that are FIXTUREs... you cant get one like that any more.... soon we wont be able to operat it bcz it has too many openings to shroud
exposed? .. theres nothing exposed onthat bot
see the front view? thats a sliding door .. comes up, with interlocks
the view where you can see the bot (pic2) is from the rear door, also interlocked
with coded keys etc, doors have to be locked, keys in the rack before it will run
so its completely enclosed, with interlocks and a double safety chain to the latest specs
guess ... ?
whats wrong with it???
noting .. was working until pulled about 2 months ago
5K gbp, say 8k US
yeah, ABB S4 series control
power the same as yours??
sure, its a UK machine
sounds like a steal
its basically complete, robot, welder, PLC cabinet
you have work for it??? want some??
have some .. always wanting more :)
tapered tremmels... cones out of screen.... give it some thought
shippin would be bruttal
How difficult/costly do you think it would be to have a camcorder that tracks me?
Jymmm, cheap and easy
Yeah? What you got in mind?
Jymmm, try the 'motion' project on sourceforge
will track a person moving in a room, and drive a stepper motor cotnrolled camera
I need pan and tilt
I need it to "follow me" within +- 24"
does it do that?
72 point PCI i/o card.... http://www.futurlec.com/PCI8255.shtml
nope, just a plain old camcorder
have you read up on the motion project yet?
LawrenceG, looks like some 8255's with a PCI bus interface chip ... the 8255 is wel known and easy to use, so should be a cinch
sounds neat.. and doable to me..
LawrenceG, essentially, what you have there is 3 printer sockets on a single card
robin_sz: yes ... very cheap for lots of i/o
robin_sz: some opto 22 racks and classic ladder would rock
robin_sz: would handle all the i/o for just about any machine
im lookin at classic ladder to run my perpetual motion - electrical generator...
dmessier: there's no such thing.
energy never is free.
anonimasu, shh, let him find out the hard way
and with a little help from my friends id like a workin' prototype by december
dmess: cool... send me the plans, sounds like it would good for a BC bud grow op
anaon.. you got to know were to steal from..
VERY good for my BC friends... but dont forget Daddy
this idea DID not come from thinkin' straight
bendin' and pushing the rules... of what ppl know...
I find a lot of interesting inventions come from a bottle of rye and a bag of tatter tots!
sadly they only work in a world of rye ...
in the real world .. they fail
but higher physics ARE that sort of thinkin'...
mine seems to work in a micro application.. so we go for MINI... then MACRO...
opposit to the pc revolution..
it does... i have a flashlight yo shack to charge batteries...
robin_sz: I'm reading... I see that it can detect motion, but I dont see anything about tracking motion.
dmessier I have one too, just keep it away from the CRT's =)
Jymmm, they do have a bit to drive some steppers in there
robin_sz Ah, ok. I was thinking some sort of RF triangulation, and I wear a small TX of sorts.
well i will build a bank of falling magnets... and charge batteries ..t o run an inverter.. and make 120 ac power...
the batteries, remind me .. how do they get back to the top again?
the batteries dont fall..
how does antigravity work?
sorry, the magnets
it sucks you up
anonimasu google it =)
how do the magnets get back to the top again?
Jymmm: I know, but how do you apply it in the _real_ world.
there is NO antigravity... only potential differential
Jymmm: if we can do that kind of stuff why dont we just float instead of walk
anonimasu traffic control
bcz we are DUMB humans
how do the magnets get back to the top again?
not Exceptional humans
they are hooked to th ones falling on the other side with 1 g of water on them
so they only fall because one side has water on it to make it heavier, right?
so, basically, it is a waterwheel, with magnets mounted directly on it
but it makes more E than it takes to get the drop back up...
no the are tubes.. that allow terminal V to be reaced in the macro mode
the tubes are coils
whatebver .... magents moving past coils ...
the target is magnetic.. accelerated by G
right, same as a water wheel
That's an aweful lot of copper wire.
but i consume VERY little water
then you have very little energy
and get a long run for it... both the upwards travelling magnet AND the downwards travelling magnet make E from the same drop of water...
since they move within the coil and have a flux
same as a waterwheel .. put magnets all around it .. coils all around the diameter,
dmessier: Why not make a scaled model and see how it does?
I agree completely that the magnet moving through the coil makes electricity
pick a magent up, drop it down the tube ...
it will work ..
so lets not fight... lets save the planet...
but you are not saving the planet are you?
for my kids... yes..
you are going to use energy to make this ...
GRAVITY IS FREE
but what you have is a pretty sort of waterwheel
dmessier: How much copper wire would you need (in dollars) ?
its been a friend of mine for many yrs.... taught me a few VITAL lessons...
magnets go down, magents go up ...
I dont see any fundamental difference yet
full scaled... 2500' drop 6 ft dia.... .02 dia wire... MANNNY wraps... X2 pipes
dmessier: how much would the wire cost you think?
in weather they move up or down??
250 000$$$ us
and the magnets?
for about a 1 Kwat per drop...
so, in one tube magnets comeing down, in the other manets going up
lets assume it is rictionaless and perfect OK?
approx 500 kg of magnetic mat'l per tube
only 1 wheel
so ... say you get 1kw out coming down
robin_sz: You had laser cutters, right? How many watts is your lasers?
in 30 seconds
actually, you dont because you dont meusure energy in watts, you measure it in joules ..
then it turns around and DOE it again
chinamill, 1800W is
cut like 10mm or so?
dmessier, so .. you get 1000J on the way down right?
sounds reasonable... for free
chinamill, 15mm for 1800W
dmessier, and how many watts you get out on the way up?
its a STUPID idea/PLan for retirement... but its ALL i got
robin_sz: Did you buy the finished tubes or did you hack away?
chinamill, no, I bought the thing fully working ... as a machine
robin_sz: over my budget ;)
so E is proportionate to the # of Devices... falling..
I was photographing the demolition of a 100 year old Del Monte processing plant. The jerk of a security guard was being a pita, think I need to start video taping my photography sessions from now on.
you can't fix stupid
dmessier, so .. if you get 1000J out as it goes up ....
you will need 2000J to raise it to the top
1000J to give it the PE as it goes from the bottom to the top
1000J to be extracted by the coils
so ... you have:
wouldn't it just be easier to find a thermal pocket somewhere instead?
2000J per magent going in to raise them
1000J coming out as they go up
1000J coming out as they go down
result... same in, as goes out.
assuming no losses from friction
then use stacked wind generators in the shaft and let the thermal feature turn the props?
Jymmm, I am not suggesting the magent idea as a good plan, I am just trying to show dmessier WHY it wont give free energy
but YOU forgot about the DIFFERENTIAl
no, trust me .. I didn't
robin_sz: I understand, just seems the cost of the coild @ $250,000 USD id be cheaper to buy/use wind generators
when it works i'll still like ya
the mini mode will use 2" dia x 10 ft tubel...
dmessier, well, all I can suggest is you sit down with a high school physics teacher and explain it to them before you invest your savings
Jymmm, well, a wind generator woudl actually produce power ... so its already way ahead as an idea
dmessier is this shaft of yours in the desert?
thx for the advise... i taught my physics teacher all thru high school... it was the only class i ever liked...
robin_sz so will the magnets, it's just getting back up that I question.
there are many shafts as prospects.. the most available is in sand..
Jymmm, if he weights the magnets on one side with water, he will get some excess energy
Jymmm, but hed get the same from pouring the watre down the same shaft, onto a turbine wheel
then ditch the water on that one... and add water to the other
Jymmm, the only energy available is the potential energy of the water that you can drop down the shaft and then not bother to bring back up again
Gravity sucks, in more ways than one. But if you could find a thermal feature, even letting the pressure build up slightly is bound to turn the wind generators. Plus the fact of using "heat rises" is an added bonus.
no the water on the wheel would work for 2-3 seconds.. as opposed to using it for 3--40 seconds
Jymmm, so it will work on a small scale, but onb a large scalem the shaft just fills with water
robin_sz: But if there's a thermal feature, you get steam =)
Jymmm, possibly, but I dont care
they are full to a cerain level ANYWAY...
robin_sz: Yeah, we know when your children have done to your bathroom floor Noah =)
dmessier, so how is it different from a large chain of buckets, that empty as they go round at the bottom. chain drives a generator ...
i could use rainfall into the existing waterfilled hole and it would NEVER overflow...
Hey, there's an idea.... drop a bunch of ADD kids in a hole and use their energy!
ive seen bucket wheels
dmessier: The magnets are a nice idea, but I aint seeing it in principal of cost. But we do have a hell of a lot of thermal features I bet you could take advantage of and be practical in practice and cost.
this is the POSIBILITY of adding terminal velocity to MAGNETS
you mean that you drop them into a hole.
yes... i have a 1.5 mile hole if i need it
8380 feet to be precice
dmessier where is this hole apx?
Kirkland lake Ontario Canada
macassa mine shaft # 3
like ai said, go find a high school physics teacher ... let them explain potential and kinetic energy to you
i wanna show them e can make more froe E than gold
well, just dont bet the farm on it
i AM VERY well versed in potential e and kinetic e but you need to learn about gravitational acceleration
IT does't give anyting up
I knew another guy like you once ...
his idea was to put containers to the bottom of the ocean, open a valve, allow the water to compress the air, bring them up and allow the air to force out the water, driving a generator/turbine
but them on a big chain, so one is always going up, the other going down
and was he so wrong...
yep .. mad as a brush
we need to find RENEWABLE resourses... and i have NEVE gotten a gravity bill
never got a solar bill either
* alex_joni goes to bed
dmessier: well, all you have to do is create something with a negative mass and wham you have antigravity..
dmessier, so just build a big bucket wheel down the mione shaft and start filling buckets with water, or sand or anytihng you dont want to bring up again ...
I still think if you could find a way to harness the volcanic rock in Hawaii, you'ld be better off
right.. and i had 3 solar cells in 1980.... 1.5 V @ 300 milliamp in full sunlight...
alex_joni: nice call
alex_joni, seen my bot?
this isnt my 1st brain wave..
My solar blanket puts out 24V @ 1A full sun
[20:07:36] <robin_sz> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/upload/robot/
i was 13 yrs old..
mine is made specifically for radios
and thinkin / dreamin''''' HOW
recharging the gelcells
dmessier, same as my friend with the containers ... hed been working on it for 30 years ...
mad as a brush, still believes it will work too.
robin_sz it probably will, just will never see it in our lifetime
it will work... the math im NOT worried about...
well, you should be
you ever had to learn some NEW math...
"I know we could talk wirelessly" circa 1700's =)
challenges really drive me.... and ive NEVER LOSt
dmessier, your particular problem doesnt require any "new" maths, its just multipliaction and additon
and an eye on what we've been missing
dmessier, OK, then heres a challenge ...
i never said it was complicated..
if i mess up my latest attempt with my stepper driver i've spent the amount of money it costs to buy one geckodrive!
Bo^Dick, just buy a gecko .. its cheaper
Bo^Dick: if you cound all time invested as free..
and they are better.
of course a one axis system doesn't yield a cnc system however
Bo^Dick, is yours microstepping?
my will be quarterstepping
does that count as microstepping?
microstepping approximates to sine wave drive of the coils
so you think 1/8 stepping is a lot smoother than 1/4 stepping
will ti do 7A at 70v?
it will do whatever powerstage i install to it
what anti resonance circuit you using?
or not bothering?
i haven't implemented anti-resonance
do you know how anti-resonance works?
dmessier, if you want a challenge, why not learn about eigenvalues and eigenvectors ... cant be hard, as you say you never lost and you liek to learn new maths
i wonder if the anti-resonance stuff is done in the controller part or in the powerstage!
does anyone know about that?
you basically watch the coil voltages, try and measure the back emf from the motor
its in the power stage really
phew, since i'm happy with the controller part!
otherwise the motr is likely to stall at mid-range ...
i don't think i'm gonna run the motors fast at constant speed
robin.. relax.. dont BLOW a vessel
i might just do that
dmess, yeah whatever ... just seems a shame you are going to try something that is plainly noty going to work ... but, if you have cash to burn, it will be a fun project
hey K4ts !
dmess, try http://www.mathphysics.com/calc/eigen.html
.. . they are fun because they blend matrix algebra and calculus, and they have applications in applied physics, so its a neat mix of two big areas of maths, plus a bridge between pure and applied maths ... quite a challenge
Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
is THAT just a fancy name for unit vector robin...?
Automatically Programmed Tool uses a VERY similar matrix structure... it does full 5 axis programming in a verbose / text mode.. geometry creation and all...
it breaks it down to connonical form for all basic elements.. and a few complex ones..
you CAN drive along a tabulated cylinder
with adjusted tl/ axis vectors
03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/TODO: logarithmic jog speed control
03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: logarithmic jog speed control
03cradek 07HEAD * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: logarithmic jog speed control
cradek do you remember taper linear pots?
03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/arcspiral.ngc: spiral.ngc fitted with arcs
03rayh 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/ (spiral.ngc arcspiral.ngc): as cut on the mazak
I believe I can fly
[22:04:11] <giacus> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR9t_12Hxzk&feature=Views&page=2&t=t&f=b
I can touch the sky :P
I can fart
i ate asperagus .. i can FLY... trust me lol
[22:53:12] <giacus> http://www.roboitalia.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&Itemid=72&place=thumbnails&album=lastup&cat=10196
a friend of mine done his drivers today :P
looks a nice job
03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/threading.ngc: demo as cut at cnc workshop