the scrapyard giveth and the scrapyard taketh away: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0616.JPG
what got given and what got taken?
I was wondering the same thing.
the scrapyard givith and fenn taketh away?
i got 20 feet of thick polished stainless tubing and a 1 horse dc motor with worm drive gearbox
last week we threw out 2 tons of misc. junk that had accumulated in the driveway
jmk - it was the seconds to nanosecond issue with my emc2. fixed it
skunkworks: good to hear that
gonna try to run EMC on these: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0615.JPG
is that a strange power supply connector on the left?
all the colored wires go to a 6 pin header like you see on old motherboards
good thing you got the supplies too
too bad it's not ATX - that would be ideal for a picoPSU
fenn what are those?
the p/s says atx on it
jymmm they are netier xl1000's
fairly cheap on ebay
the thing that may kill it for EMC is the integrated video
(plus 64M RAM and k6-2/300)
but it should be an interesting experiment
you can add more ram, its standard low profile sdram
ok, that's cool
i figured it wouldn't have all the laptop-ish issues with apm at least
probably not, but it's possible. it has power management (due to wake on LAN, I think)
netier (now wyse) provides practically zero information on it
I think I ran emc on a pcchips motherboard with sis video
that was a k6-2 /300 if i recall correctly
I'd like to try compiling for the Excalibur FPGA development kit, which has a PowerPC core in it (and runs Linux)
* fenn just shakes his head
the whole fpga scene pisses me off
because it;s too expensive?
we would see so much cool stuff if the manufacturers were more open about the designs
but instead they go and have a patent hissy fit
yeah - the whole IP thing is frustrating
it's pretty amazing how expensive some of this development software is
there was a C-to-FPGA compiler at ESC - they wanted $45k for the base package
add $15k for the image processing toolkit
and I think you still need the vendor tools to place and route for a particular cihp
atmel doens't have anything like a fpga?
they sure do
there's even a series of AVR chips with some FGA fabric around them (FPSLIC)
same "toolkit" expenses?
all of the chip vendors have a free version of their tools, which are limited in some way
how hard could it be to make the bitstream, really?
either they won';t target the biggest (or oldest) chips, or they're time limited (otr they don't have all the optimizations, etc)
or they just revoke your "subscription" because you arent a certified business or educational institution
it's easy to make "a" bitstream, but to make a nicely optimized one, that meets timing constraints, is a bitch
no - the ones that are free are actually free (Xilinx, I think)
achiest dragon was bitching about altera the other day
but they won't target the Virtex chips, which are the really fast/big ones
altera is annoying
their development kits bomb out after 1 year - then you have to get the free version, and lose some functionality
or just keep buying development kits every year (which is what I seem to do)
that is so dumb
is it because their business is really the development tools, not the hardware?
how much does a dev kit cost?
I'm not sure
I asked every vendor about this at ESC
did you carry a ruler, and rap their knuckles when they answered wrong?
it seemed to me that the chip vendors would want to provide you with any software that makes their chips perform better than the competition
this is why I stick with microcontrollers that gcc can target.
I carried my laptop, and whacked them when they got it wrong ;)
are there any good IRC channels for electronics/microcontrollers/embedded stuff?
##electronics ##microcontrollers #edev
probably, but there are only 26 hours in a day ;)
Jymmm: ones where it's on-topic even
#robotics has a lot of avr-talk too
oh there's even #avr but its always dead
* jepler blushes
bit rusty at the ol' command line eh
SWPadnos: you dont actually stay up 26 hours a day though, unlike some of us
sometimes I stay up 36 hours a day, which really sucks
I think that's why I have this bad cold
(well, that and exposure to it)
mutant germs from outer space
so - here's an interesting (sort of) question that came up last night
"Why go with EMC?"
I should probably write a nice long email, and post it to the dev or user list
because you want to control your cnc equipment with good open source software?
well, that's one good reason
there are two contexts for the question
first, someone who has a BP that's currently controlled by DeskCNC
[Global Notice] Hi all. We're currently experiencing annoyancebot problems in a variety of different channels. You may want to consider temporarily using channel mode +R (only identified users can voice) for the time being.... sorry for the difficulties.
the question there is "what features in EMC would cause him to switch?"
cradek: unlike you or me, most people won't answer "because it's the Free one"
dunno, I don't know squat about deskcnc
(of course, this depends on what features he nees, and what DeskCNC already does, and what emc does that he doesn't need
jepler: I said open source, not free
you can ask Fred of IMService at the workshop ;)
it's GNU/Linux dammit!!!!!11
cradek: I forget which one I have to say to use savannah.
ugh jymmm why did you do that?
maybe I don't care about advocacy, it's obvious to me that open source is best for me, and if someone else isn't like me, maybe that's his own problem
This is the scenario that I've mentioned before - deskcnc and Mach can just load a DXF or BMP file, and start machining
fenn walops - annoyancebot
there's a learning curve for most people, just because EMC runs on Linux
well there arent any here, so you're just stopping unregistered people from talking
Is "+r" different from "+R"?
I think we're mostly registered
jepler "shouldn't" be.
I didn't see any problem on this channel
* fenn hunts for the annoyancebot
* fenn points at les_w -- get 'im!
wheeeeeee! hee hee heee </internet explorer icon>
jepler slightly different
at least that doesn't keep anyone out of the channel
SWPadnos: any suggestions on a inexpensive LED driver?
starting from what? (AC, a battery, etc)
SWPadnos uC controlled
just for lighting, right?
(not matrix displays or 7-segment)
SWPadnos Yeah (opposed to what?)
matrix displays or 7-segment
ah, plain old leds
I just use a current limiting resistor and a transistor, with an AVR to control the brughtness using PWM
SWPadnos I'm talking about 10 or 20 LED's
I'm talking about hundreds, with 16 channels of control
how you gonna control 100's wiht a lil ole avr ?
nm you said 16ch
ok, what Q ?
16 channels, each bank of 4 can be attached to a separate voltage source, so using 24V on all 16 channels lets me have series strings of 6-12 LEDs each
and I can put about 50 strings on a single channel
(20-50 mA per string of LEDs, 2A transistors)
you use "transistors" or mosfets?
SOT-23 transistors - hold on one sec
I'll get the part number
2A * 0.2Vcesat = 0.4W, don't those tiny lil' thangs get hot
yeah - they've got a very low voltage drop
they're rated for 350mW
why not use fets? :)
more expensive, I think they were
hmmm - I may have used the MMBT6427FS though
either way, I'm impressed
I think of SOT-23 transistors as being weak
nope - the 6427 is a 1.2A, the 619 is 2A
how much base current is needed to saturate them?
they're good enough that the transistor still works even if it melts itself off the board
[03:05:53] <Jymmm> http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/zetexsemiconductors/fmmt619.pdf
yeah - I like them
heh... 12A peak
that's the 617
the 619 is only 6A ;)
Just saw the disclaimer at the bottom
jmkasunich, 500mA is the max base current, but since hfe is in the 200+ range, 10 mA should be close to saturation
I used them on my pulse generator, so I could drive small stepper motors
so Jymmm, does that answer your question?
SWPadnos pretty much, ty. Now how something else resolved too with that transistor
there may be better ones now, that one was selected over a year ago
I wasn't even aware there was high power in such a small pkg available.
ideally, there isn't a lot of power in that package ;)
but high current, sure :)
well with the PWM yeah
$0.78/ea from mouser
how are they at 10 or 100 qty?
$0.39 @ 100, $0.20 @ 10K
$0.32 @ 250
ok - about the same as DigiKey
$0.3888 / 100
wow $0.44/ea from newark
bastards.... 71 day leadtime, zero in stock
no wonder they're so cheap
heh - you can sell something you don't have at any price
interesting. I think the relative prices of FETs and BJTs have done an inversion in the past year
[03:19:43] <SWPadnos> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=3213&Row=191684&Site=US
hmmm - I wonder if that will work
1.2W in SOT23
1.9 for that last one
whats the Rth for a SOT-23?
gotta be close to 100 deg C/watt
I don't think the ground terminal would have withstood that much total current
junction to solder point
so you need some honking big traces to heatsink the solder point
Rth j-ambient is what I was asking about
yep. that's a max rating as well
(which obviously depends on the board, but...)
I don't see any other thermal coefficients
the Rds(on) is pretty low - 30-36 mOhm (or 48-57.6 mOhm at 150C)
now you're looking at fets?
yes - sorry
that last link was for a 5.7A SOT23 FET
those are very impressive numbers
1.9W dissipation, and $0.45 in single quantity
1.9W * 65K/W = 123.5K rise above solder point
so if soldered to a 25C infinite heatsink, Tj = 150
it's rated for that
if soldered to a real board tho, Rth is gonna be at least double the stated value
yep - though you can use a via for heatsinking
if soldered to a real board with 50C air temp.... the real power rating is well under 1 watt unless you dedicate a lot of copper to heatsinking
I hate specmanship
though 1W at 30 mOhm gives many amps anyway
SWPadnos: I seen where you had posted some comments on the Mesa 5i20 PCI Card...have you had much luck with it?
I haven't tried to make any luck, so no ;)
I'm not sure I'll have a chance before Fest
|Magician|, were you talking about modifications to the FPGA, or just getting the card to work?
the mods for step & dir.
ok - nope, haven't had any time for that
you using it for servos now?
I'm not using it, but I have one installed in my test machine, and it appears to work fine
so swp you're not making rodeo videos, you're not setting up the bridgeport, what do you do all day?
I wonder what I'll do the next day :)
I have been looking for something that could do PWM & step.....I thought maybe I had run up on something
the Mesa can, but doesn't
jmkasunich, the camera array
yeah thats what Peter with Mesa was saying
I didn't have a chance to talk to him when I was in San Jose, but he had said that he was willing to write the code for the step generators
Thats what he was saying when I was talking to him yesterday...he said he hasnt got around to it
ok - it's not just me ;)
He also said that there was another guy named peter thst was messing with it...I seen where he had posted on the forum, but havent been able to make much of it
I didn't gather that petev is working on it. He seemed pretty busy
Peter with Mesa just said that he might know some about it....he didnt say that he was working on it....I had just seen where he had posted about it a couple of times
Thats the closest thing that I have came to finding to something that would work for my setup so far
I think the mesa card is a reat thing - I'd just like to be able to use it to its full potential, by being able to reprogram the FPGA
err - great thing
ok - the good news is that I was able to import the constraint file into my design software, so as soon as I re-register my stupid fscking FPGA design kit from Xilinx, I should be able to make new FPGA configs
on that note, I think I'll head off to bed. night all
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
(try it with no question mark)
I guess it's offline
I know why
Jymm set +R
[04:10:38] <SWP_Away> http://184.108.40.206/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/
(that also explains why CIA messages that I was expecting didnt show up
Jymmm: remove the +R please!!!
hey Jymmm unset R, will ya?
nag nag bitch bitch...
yep, that was it
ok. NOW I can go to bed :)
SWP_Away and you couldn't before? =)
err - well, I. um. good night
SWP_Away go visit your wife
I mean - I have a cold, dummy
is that such a bad thing?
visiting the wife, not the cold
it is if I wake her up
03compile-farm 07BDI-2.18 (2.2.18-rtl3.0) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot2_log.txt
she works, you know
yay, it worked
I do now
one slot at least
I hope the TODO change doesn't fubar any of the compile farm slots ;)
heh, actually I'm anxiously waiting for somebody to screw something up
because reporting to the commit list is untested
I'd help with that, but I'd have to boot the test machine
I only report failure to the list (don't want to spam it with lots of unimportant messages)
make sure you report the name of the last committer ;)
list archives will have that
03compile-farm 07BDI-TNG (2.4.18-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot3_log.txt
03compile-farm 07BDI-4.20 (2.6.10-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot5_log.txt
03compile-farm 07BDI-Live rc46 (2.4.25-adeos) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot4_log.txt
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* alex_joni goes away till tuesday
alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
Does anyone have the hal_show.tcl ??
Hello SkunkWorks; Do you have the hal_show.tcl ?
HI - where would it be and what does it do :)
I looked and there is no such program in emc2
I got it from rayh before, but I lost it somewhere, it is a light gui to view signals and pins etc.
that's in halcmd, just run halcmd from the menu
ah - I know he was working on some sort of gui
go to the watch tab
select your signals/pins in the tree on the left
Eh, how do i start the gui?
when running emc, it's on the scripts menu (in tkemc) and on another menu in the other guis
great, now it up :)
what is ddt?
(I was thinking about the hal-whatever that allows you to connect the hal componants togather.
cradek: - changed my periods from seconds to nanoseconds and it worked. thanks
When I do: bin/halcmd linkps supply.0.variable Zpos-cmd I get: HAL: ERROR: signal 'Zpos-cmd' already has writer(s) ; HAL:0: link failed Is this too forbidden?
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
you can only have one "write" pin attached to any signal
SkunkWorks: so you're using the 04-19 release now, have you had any problems?
there have been a few small bugfixes since then, I think we're getting ready for an official release
um - excuse me :)
the last few fixes have been old, old bugs (not recent breakage), which I think is a good sign that we're gaining real stability
Cradek: I have not physically run the maching but brought up some files I made in eagle and ran them - no issues.
ok, that's good
even found out g82 works. :)
that's one of the drill cycles? I use those all the time for pcbs
(think it was g82 - it was what pcb-gcode put out for drilling)
I don't understand why they put a 10 second delay at the bottom of each hole though
they are sure an easy way to program a hole drill
I bet another system has the pause in msec or csec, I bet you should change it to .01
yes :) G82 X0.3500 Y2.3500 Z-0.1200 F5.00 R0.0200 P10.000000
it was supposidly the emc post proccessor\
close but not quite
is there a map how the components interacts?
HAL components, or "the components of the software"?
hmmm - one sec
Jymmmmm is now known as Jymmm
chinamill, there are some diagrams on the wiki, but I can't find them right now. I'm not sure they're what you need anyway
found them ;)
I'm not sure if that's the kind of info you're looking for
cradek: not to many people must use the post proccessor for emc as there was still a few ';' in the program http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DRIVEtd.nc
SkunkWorks: here's what I use to turn eagle boards into millable files
[13:58:35] <Jymmm> http://www.tatjavanvark.nl/tvv1/pht10.html
I'm logging. I don't understand 'bookmakr', SkunkWorks. Try /msg logger_aj help
ROTFLMAO (dumbass) --> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=330884
VERY COOL --> http://www.hiddenpassageway.com/
Hmm, I have some problems of moving Z with HAL. I want to be able to mave Z while interpreting gcode. My plan was to use the signal Zpos-cmd. But as soon as a give the pin that feeds Zpos-cmd a new value I get j.following err. Does anyone have any ideas?
make your FERROR for that axis big
If MIN_FERROR is 1.0, then the axis can move 1 inch before emc will signal a following error.
(I dont get any ferrors while jogging)
(or mm if your units are mm)
steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
it got better
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
hmm, I have to admit my C knowledge is rusty... I try to alter the supply.c (for testing and learning). Now I try to change the first bit in the struct to be incoming instead of out. My test is to put the value of the incoming bit to the other outgoing _q. But I cant get _q to change value... Any ideas?
I changed retval = hal_pin_bit_new(buf, HAL_RD, &(addr->q), comp_id);
RD instead of WR
Is there anything difficult in using a PCI-parport controller?
and what changes are reuired?
Lerneaen_Hydra: usually just the IO address
Some of these PCI cards convert their ports to ordinary IO addresses.
So you use 0x378, 0x278, or 0x3BC
I've also used the real PCI addy in the EMC ini file and that works fine.
I have put the sligtly modded supply.c in http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Test_New_Page
What do I have to consider for reading a bit from hal pin? I tried to study the diferences between debounce.c and supply.c to change one of the stuct variables to a incoming.
Are you trying to set an output value based on an input signal?
I started to get too many grey hairs...
There are some "blocks" that can compare, add, set values.
my first goal is to have a basic code skeleton for reding and writing to pins. I think it shouldent be very complicated
more or less a hal component that do nothing but read and write
which tools do most of you use to get the refereance point for milling? (setting the 0 point for XY and Z)
then I can start to implement the functionality
LH: I have a flat metal piece partly emdedded in plasic that is conected to estop. I use it to align it to an edge and then i feed into it and it will do estop right att the edge - 1/2 diameter... Do you get it?
yes I understand, same procedure for X, Y and Z?
how long time does it take to measure in all three axes?
Why estop not home?
home is better
These are limit switches?
no, the mashine must stop
You'd like any one of these switches to stop the machine.
it's just a thing I use kinf of like a temporary limit sw. to be able to measure in. Probobly not a great method, but low cost for sure.
You bet. Good idea.
What physical pin do you plan to use to get the switch into HAL?
the measuring thing I have already working, but on what pin I put it I do not remenber
My quest in the HAL components is for a torch height controller.
Ah. Would the height variable be binary or float?
I've seen them use air pressure near the torch.
That pressure is turned into an analog signal.
I need to make a hal component that can read bit and float and write float to hal pins.
I have to run for a while... will be back later to read back.
what would I do to set up EMC to use the other parport?
change the address in the loadrt hal_parport line
You can add more than one addy there and see them in the HAL
how do I find the adress for the parport?
its usually 0x278 or 0x378 but you might find that in the bios
lspci might show a usefull address if it's not one of those above.
I find it hard to see where I would find adresses for PCI-based parports in the bios, in which menu were you thinking?
hmm.. i was thinking integrated peripherals maybe
i''ve never had a parport card though
sudo lspci in a terminal should show the card name and addys.
that gave me an adress not at all similar to the one in standard_pinout.hal
What numbers did it show you?
0000:01:0c.0 Serial controller: Timeda Technology Co Ltd PCI2S550 etcetc
it must be that one as the only other controller I have is a network card
oops try sudo lspci -vv
It should show 0x numbers
for that Timeda board
It ought to say something like xxx at e800 or b800 or some such.
this board has 2x RS232 and 1X parport, and the information shown from lspci is: size32, df80. size8, dff0, size8, dfe0
So i presume the parport has the adress df80?
Sounds like that would be a good place to try anyway.
loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x0378"
is the line in standard_pinout.hal
and just replace the 0378 with df80
or loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x0378 0x0278" if you want two parports in HAL.
ray: still around?
just wanted to let you know the wireless link is up and running. The only issue so far is every once in a great while the wireless connection will loose it for about 20 seconds.
maybe someone with a portable phone or something. going to keep an eye on it for a while and see. I can still add a better antanna on the other end.
Great to hear.
What happens when it looses the signal.
network drops out or ??
I can ping the AP connected to the computer but not the other side of the wireless link.
so far they are pleased as punch going from there 46kbs connection ;)
rayh: What is it that defines which is parport0 and 1? is it the order of them loading or the physical position?
I have not looked to see if there is any kind of logging in the ap to get an idea.
order of loadrt command
and df80 => 0x0278 when going from hex to dec?
0x278 is hex
SkunkWorks, I can see why. Imagine it from my 19k on a good day connection
the leading 0x means hex
so 0xdf80 is a valid adress for standard_pinout.hal?
Cradek is right. I know it sounds goofy. I was pretty skeptical the first time I tried it.
where you phone from ?
you scared him off giacus
you think that ?
lol, nah =)
I think Jymmm was joking ;)
Does anyone know of any documenation on how to write a HAL component?
chinamill: the source code should be the best doc for that
chinamill or talk to jmkasunich
he'll tell you the same thing
supply.c and timedelay.c are very simple
what component are you going to write?
I'll have a look at timedelay.c so far I'm having problems of reading and writing input/output
A component for a torch heigt controller
timedelay.c looks like my best shot!
I thought you were going to be able to use existing hal components - did you find this is not the case?
cradek: no I have to write one, a very simple one but still write one. Ineed to read pins with bit and float and write a pin with a float. (have to reboot, will be back soon)
K4ts, Will Prodi be better or worse for your country?
Wait and see! Good plan.
Better than power abusing Mr B anyway
[20:54:17] <giacus> http://www.giacus.org/photo/eventi/inde.png
I saw the www.giacus.org addy for you.
I'm back in naples for some week ..
I finally found the time to subscribe myself to the emc mailing list
I'm also waiting the emc2 release to update the HAL it doc :P
I saw your link on that subscription.
As soon as you are ready we should make that hal doc available on www.linuxcnc.org.
yes, waiting it
the moment its a good moment ;P
for emc of course heh
I'm not following much it in these latest weeks
but its seems to be retty ready
Horay, reading and writing bit in hal component now :)
what I know for sure, there's alays a lot of work around a stable release :(
I'm hearing of a lot of interest in emc2 these days.
rayh: yeah, you're right
peoples are interested on that
however, emc development is very difficult I guess
It is a rather complex set of files.
since there is not so much tester as in other projects
its also expensive
but i'm sure emc2 could open some way for factory use
not just hobbist
since it is evoluted and stable yet
as expensive I meant the mechanical part
not the software of course :)
you can build really cheap stuff, it just wont be as fast as the expensive ones
I'm sure about that
I'm not sure all peoples know it
what I really love, is that I can 100% take the control of anything
on my machine
but that, maybe is not so important for some peoples
who don't know enough ..
that's the brake I guess
The flexibility of EMC means more work to setup.
I agreed in all
more work to do sanity checks when writing the software
its easy to click on "stepper_inch" or whatever
fenn: yeah, true
however, I think politics of business is to sell the software to control the machine, togheter with the machine ..
that's a bit what was happening with computers with windowze preinstalled on
if i were selling a machine i'd sell it with the software
I see 2 different things
machine its a material thing
software is unreal
but also in the software there's a lot of work
maybe more of machine
I'd sell the support
many peoples are living just with that
always when a business can be created around it
it depend on many things
but I think is possible
as well, emc2 could open a new way for that
it is useful and it only depend on how many peoples will choose it
hi SWPadnos :)
I was reading abou Gnuplot
I suppose it has been used in emc development
I never looked at the source code yet :(
it also have Python support for what I seen
it seems to me what is really needed its an evoluted free cad/cam
I feel as years ago when was no a good browser around, (before mozilla)
I'd even settle for "average"
so, wonder where's the secret
I think that nobody who's smart enough to code it has also needed it badly enough to code it.
that seems to be how most projects get started, someone scratching an itch.
mm we have to reinvent the wheel ..
I was looking at open cascade
In short, Open CASCADE Technology Public License is LGPL-like with certain differences..
the differerence could make the difference
the screenshots look nice.
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