3) surface finish
balls need smooth tracks to roll on
I don't know much about this area so I'm going to come up with krasy ideas for a while
nothing wrong with krazy ideas
if you have a nice sharp bit don't you get smooth cutting?
not the kind of smooth you need for a screw
I'm not sure I'm visualizing how you would cut the screw
threading it on a lathe I understand, but you're talking about milling?
I would take a cutting tool ot the proper diameter and place it tangetial to the rod
then turn the rod
proper dia = ball dia?
yes dia = ball diameter
so you are talking a tool diameter of maybe 0.090 for a 10 TPI screw
and if the screw diameter is 0.5", the tool has to stick out 1/4" minimum
whatever the ball diameter is for the nut I'd have to buy
that tool will deflect a couple thou, and that alone will totally kill your tolerances
I can compensate for that...
how much machining (manual) have you done?
I'd zero in with several cuts and then mill out the last couple tho in one pass
took 1 course
over 10 years ago
done much since then?
I could cut to about 1/1000 usually on a shopsmith
none. I need a mill and lathe
you need a mill to make the screw that you need to build a mill ;-)
Oh - I did mill out a router table asmbly.
I forgot about that.
I used a drill press lol
what kind of tolerances did you ned to hold for that?
0.010" is easy
I'm within the tolerances I need... about the thickness of a sheet of paper
thats about 0.005, still pretty easy
on a drill press? 8" drill press souped up to a 17" throat.
not on a drill press ;-)
That was fun.
my point is that ballscrews want 0.0001
chuck kept falling out.
thats a completely different class of machining
oh - 1/1000th
that is very hard.
how is this done commercially?
lower cost ballscrews are rolled, expensive ones are ground
you can get rolled ballscrews for less than $200
I was quoted about $200 bux for a 6 foot rolled
I was checking mcmaster carr, they don't seem to have as many as they used to
they're not the best source, but they're online and convenient to check
jmkasunich: I didn't know they carried any.
I've dealt with them before.
what sorts of prices?
[00:11:10] <Jymmm> http://www.lowcostcncretrofits.com/Ballscrews%20and%20transmision.html
damn java script.
$1.20/inch = $86something for 6 ft
and $25 for a nut
pay the $50 for the preloaded nut
that is not so bad!
5/8 x 0.2 pitch
(on that page you just posted)
HOLLY POOP - $219 for a 1300 in-oz motor! that is cheap!
jmkasunich I posted the link =)
I wasn't smart enough to scroll down
didn't notice the name, thought terr and I were the only ones in the conversation
jmkasunich Tis ok, I just have this shit bookmarked.
jymm I am totally impressed by how knowledgable people are in here.
terr: I did a *****LOT***** of homework
Can I grind a rolled screw?
Jymmm: it shows
long answer - if you had the machinery and know how to do it, you wouldn't be asking us
jmkasunich: I presume they will wear in and get smoother
need a cylindrical grinter to start with
like my dremil? lol
terr like a $40,000 grinder
All the high spots should wear off first.
actually, you might be able to improve smoothness (but not accuracy) by lapping
still a major project tho
take a length of screw stock
I do have some lapping coumpound here.
mill flutes in it
use it to tap a hole in a block of brass
milling the fluets wouldn't be too difficult - getting accuracy will be impossible I think
put fine lapping compound in the hole and run your new abrasive brass nut up and down the main piece of the screw a few hundred times
I was thinking _maybe_ 0.002
hmm - could put that on a stepper and go to bed
might want to slit the nut/lap so you can tighten it
ya - good idea.
then clean the screw
and clean it again
could make a 2" long nut too - that would work like a plane
and finally reassemble the ballnut to it
hardest part would be tapping the nut/lap
IF I could tell my trusty robot to do it then it wouldn't matter. Something like the bi-centenial man
* Jymmm kicks the perverbial dog!
I was thinking the same - go find a cat ok?
Jymm's dog bites his ankle
dremel tooling is too damn small... need something just clightly bigger
jmkasunich: Eh, I'm trying to sand the ends of some 3/8" acrylic square stock...
Jymmm: what do you have now?
Jymmm: what is so hard about that?
jmkasunich but the sanding discs are too damn small and get maintain 90 degrees
do you have a belt sander?
orbital wood sander?
do you ahve a grinder?
how many pieces of acrylic?
jmkasunich right now 8, later on 80
can you bundle them into a 4" square bundle and sand the whole pile with the palm sander?
btw, why sanding vs milling or something?
use a fly cutter
are you aiming for precisely flat, or very smooth (clear) or both?
jmkasunich 200, then 400, then 800 grit
jmkasunich optically clear
how long are the pieces?
are you making light pipes?
could you make a block with a 3/8 slot in it to hold the piece square, then lay sandpaper flat on glass or something else flat and smooth, slide the block around?
granted, thats manual, would get old fast
take some stock and bore a proper size hole it and mount the sander ina jig
jmkasunich: good point - the sandpaper has to be on a hard surface
if your're going for optical clear, you'll need to sand wet
sander won't work well
jmkasunich: I'll flame polish it when I get to a certain point.
build a cylinder jig so you can spin it over the paper and drop new rod in from a pipe as the old ones are done and fall into a box.
You can probably make a robot to do the whole job.
terr, 8 or even 80 pieces doesn't warrent that complexity
jmkasunich: hey - I was the guy who was going to make his own ball screws
the vertical sanding is an idea though... let the weight of the piece to it...
$699 for a 10 Amp uni=polar controller. I wonder how good it is?
that is cheaper than gecko
probably need some additional weight, acylic isn't heavy
geckos are less than $150
Jymmm: you can bore the holes in a tree stump.
per axis - this is 4 axis with a P/S incl
unipolar tho... gecko is a whole nother class
jmkasunich Well, finger touch thing... keep the heat and clogging to a minimum.
in a box with an on-off switch
fenn SHUT DA HELL UP!
fenn you and your damn waterjet! Go find a skijet and get lost =)
jymm: if the sandpaper is laying flat, wet sanding is trivial, I'd do it just to avoid clogging the paper
Jymmm: a dry chunk of hardwood will probably work for your jig...
jmkasunich: he can make a plate from metal or glass to hold the sandpaper
jsut glue it on
jmkasunich: I have a 3" makita panel saw. Thinking of turning it into a multi tool
I have some nice spray on adhesive that will work too.
I've lapped steel parts using find sandpaper (SiC, 600 grit) stuck to the table saw table with a spritz of wd-40 (just surface tension)
3" panel saw?
3" what? arbour? blade diameter?
yeah Jymmm, huh?
can the panel saw cut a 4x8 foot peice?
made for cutting max 3/4 thick stuff
think baby skilsaw
(I think, is that right Jymmm?
yeah, just a sec...
How large a panel will it cut?
its a handheld saw
how big you got?
and how long is the cord?
Ohhhhh... its just a small skillsaw then.
[00:38:33] <Jymmm> http://www.mytoolstore.com/makita/mak1b-10.html
duh, thats what I said
paneling, like 1/8" thick
I was thinking of a "real" panel saw - they are in a frame and will cut 4x8 panels
or tile, whatever
terr: I know what you are talking about, but he said makita
so it had to be a blue plastic handheld thing
gue your sandpaper to teh side of the balde and build a jig for your rods
that could work
they make 3" sanding discs
does yours have the water bottle?
jmkasunich no, but I have the tile blade =)
that thing probably spins too fast for dry sanding you'd melt the acrylic
wet it might work
I'd aim for a few hundred sfm and wet for best results
jmkasunich it's 9.6VDC, But I made a speacial adapter so I can run it off my variable PS
bet that things a few thousand
[00:41:22] <terr> http://www.mytoolstore.com/milwauke/6480.html
<--- real panel saw
terr: I know
Jymmm: do you ahve a stepper motor?
terr: I'm not sadistic enough to make a DEDICATED sanding device =)
I'd put a pully on the stepper perhaps and use it to run the arbour and put a saw blade or something and glue the sandpaper on then run a stream of water over the sandpaper
be a nice conversation peice and you can probably sell it on ebay when you are done.
terr = strange fellow
Jymmm, is it 8 then 80 then production? or 8 then 80 then done?
jmkasunich goal is production
jmkasunich I need to make a end drilling jig too, so I might combine them.
I'm planning on plastic moulding... hense unless I want to spend a zillion bux I need a mill so I can make my own molds.
jmkasunich: if you have a lathe and a boring tool and a tree stump it will be easy
what diameter are teh rods and how accurate?
3/8 square IIRC
jmkasunich: Eh, I'm trying to sand the ends of some 3/8" acrylic square stock...
well - that is still pretty easy.
jymmm: go to mcmaster carr, look at page 2589
2 sheets of plywood and a chisel.
their site isn't URL friendly
put a 2x2 between the plywood
3/8 router bit or endmill beats a chisel
jmkasunich: you got that right.
if you have one.
I have a chisel.
jymmm: bottom of the page, belts
hmm - yes - you can make a couple of rollers and make your own sander!
that would be a fun project.
cost less than $250 bux too.
a belt sander is in that range.
they also have belts that slip over wheel, see page 2579
the wheel can replace a grinder wheel
but that's probably too fast and dry
I think he'll need to wet sand it.
I was thinking low speed homemade belt sander, with the upper wheel driven and the lower one dipping into water
me too - make yer own. He can do this with 4 bearing @ 1.00 each and two shafts - possibly even a broom stick and a couple rollers made from a tree stump.
whats with you and tree stumps?
jmkasunich: I like wood actually. lol
Jymmm: what tools do you have? lathe, mill, drillpress?
treestumps and dull chisels?
could probably rig up a sanding disk or drum for a drillpress, make a jig to hold the rod
jmkasunich explosives, angle grinder, sulfuric acid
disk makes it easier to get flat
jmkasunich: be funny to walk over to the nearest park and find a branch from a tree and make a sander from it that starts a million dollar company.
what concentration H2SO4?
jmkasunich drill press
jmkasunich and the gantry router of course
Jymmm: what kind of explosives?
terr I'll never tell
WOW - I am planning on building a gantry router.
what is the router motor? a regular wood router?
how about a small diameter sanding drum, run the router as slow as it will go
jmkasunich: Bosch 8K-25K 2.25 HP
stepper will drive a shopbuilt belt sander at any speed you choose...
and traverse it across the end of the part
sanding drum is not flat. he needs flat - and I think he needs wet too like you said.
Jymmm: think surface grinder laying on its side
terr - a surface grinder makes flat parts with a round wheel
lay part(s) on the table (spaced up 1/8")
I have a delta table top belt sander - cost me $30 bux new because the store lost some peices.
line up ends, run router back and forth
I think he should try a fly cutter in his mill or lathe
fast back and forth, very slow infeed (like a surface grinder)
jmkasunich you know the table saws that have a fanbelt? I was thinking of making something like that, but with sanding, cutting, drilling features.
jmkasunich but in miniture
3" instead of 10"
get a tile cutter...
if making something, make it so it can go slow and work wet
mcmaster has some nice AC gearmotors, anywhere from 3 to 200 RPM
they want $45, but that seems like the kind of thing you might be able to scrounge
jmkasunich Yeah, that why I wanted the belt, so I can keep the spidnle wet as much as a I want and away from the electrical
they have gear motors for 10 bux
belt sander isn't that hard to make - two drums, two shafts, four bearings
Jymmm: what RPM do you envision it running at?
lower drum dips into a cakepan of water which also catches drips
You can make sleeve bearings too.
one shaft is long enough to keep the motor clear
easy to make out of wood!!!
jmkasunich I just need to find some thin v belts and pulleys
3" drum at 100 RPM is about 90 SFPM
Jymmm: what RPM - I think you can do it simpler...
shaft drive from a gearmotor is probably easier
jmkasunich to fit the pulleys? (or am I thinking of somethign else)
He can use a broomstick.
motor drives one drum thru shaft
sanding belt goes between both drums
jmkasunich oh you mean instead of direct drive?
no, I mean use direct drive
jmkasunich: he can drive this from a wimpy rubber hose if he supports it over to the motor... and all he needs is the arbour to hold the sanding plate.
jmkasunich I want to keep the motor away from the cutting area by at least 10"
terr: are you talking about a flat plate sander (disk) or a belt sander with two drums?
Jymmm: that is easy to do - you can use a rubber hose a few feet long in fact...
piece of drill rod
jmkasunich: either - he has practually no force on the belt.
could use short rubber hose for flex coupling
I'd go with something flexible. then you don't need to align it.
but can't do a 2 foot run with hose
actually he can.
i'd just stick one of the drums on the motor shaft..
whatever you say
fenn: electric motor, wet sander, dripping
He can make a bearing out of wood too - just soak the wood in wax. Its surpizingly good.
jmkasunich: use kerosene instead :P
make sure to use a brushed dc motor in that case
all he needs to do is put the rubber hose - say 3/4" inside a 1" pipe. pour in some oil or grease and it'll drive anything he wants!
whatever you say
kerosene doesn't like to catch easily. Naptha is better.
terr you really should share.
terr whatever you've been drinking/smoking/snorting
i would probably use boe-lube on the sanding belt instead of water
dunno how that works on acrylic though
what about KY
fenn wth is boe lube?
its made from boeings
Jymmm: mcmaster carr #4650A15, 3" dia x 1" wide rubber sanding drum with 1/2" thru hole
* Jymmm sighs * I'm surrounded! CALGON TAKE ME AWAY
use 3' of 1/2" drill rod and a couple pillow blocks
mount to bench so you can slip a cake pan of water underneath the drum
couple motor to far end of shaft
upper drum can be nearly anything
jymm the thing about a shaft drive is the alignmnet is difficult - you eliminate that issue if you run a rubber hose through a pipe - and you will be surprised how much force a washing machine hose for instance will transmit... You can probably stall a 1/2 HP motor
terr: a short length of hose forcefit over the end of a shaft solves the alignment problem without having a hose whipping around
You can simply push a 1/2" bolt into the hose at both ends to couple to the sander/ motor
* fenn uses hoseclamps
jmkasunich: ya - same Idea - good idea.
fenn: for this application hoseclamps would be a safety hazard, catch on clothes pull you in
and he shouldn't need that much torque
jmkasunich: and a couple scraps of wood will support a shaft too - real cheap and simple and will not wear out any time soon
smooth shaft, smooth hose for coupling, much safer
guarded is better
don't need hose clamps....
terr: true, the bare minimum here is a couple 2x2s with 1/2" holes and wax
just push the hose over the shaft to about 2"
but you need to make sure the shafts are damn parallel, or make the upper one adjustable
jmkasunich: ya - actually it will work surpisingly well!!!
yup - couple set screws.
he can do this with a pair of 6" spikes and a few chucks of wood and a brass plate for the belt to run on.
[01:16:01] <jmkasunich> http://www.cyberrockhound.com/wet.htm
then a 2" shaft and some hose which can be vinyl tubing for all the force it needs to take. But a washing machine hose is probably better - or a chuck of garden hose.
2 foot shaft
that looks like a much better design than what we're talking about
it all comes down to $
yeah but jymmm could make something like that out of scrap
you can use tree stumps and chisels, or drill rod and drums from mcmaster, or buy a nice one
cash vs labor
heh cnc milled tree stumps sell for a good bit of money
might consider ebay for something like those
dont wanna use up all your raw materials on workshop equipment
[01:19:24] <jmkasunich> http://www.dadsrockshop.com/cabbing.html
heres another approach
disk instead of drum
corded drill on a vise, disc sander in an arbor, and a ledge.
figure out how to run it slow, or wet, or make very light cuts
or it will melt
wet is the way to go IMHO
if you do try, to a drum in the router, the CNC has enough patience to take very light passes so it will stay cool
s/try, to/dry, do
damn I can't spell
[01:23:32] <Jymmm> http://iafrica.com/diy/how/powertools/437121.htm
make the disk aluminum, and give it a long shaft
drill bit extender
then you can chuck the drill on the far end, let the bottom of the wheel dip into water, and wet sand without getting the drill wet
or plastic shield
but I like the extended shaft much better
something like a windshield washer motor would be a nice speed...
cut the bottom off a bleach bottle or something like that, put a shaft hole in the center, and use it as a spray shield
(stationary, shaft thru a clearance hole)
screw/staple to the wood frame
if the bottle bottom is 2" deep and the disk is 1" it will trap most spray (at low speed spray won;t be bad - don't try it at 2000 RPM)
2liter bottle of soda... cheap and durable
PET can withstand 120 PSI
depends on the disk diameter
I was thinking bigger, but if you have a small disk that would work
12" x 12" shield
a sodabottle is only about 4" dia
1 lite bottle
or even 3 liter
still not 12x12
or are you talking about cutting the sides off, slit and unwrap to make a sheet?
[01:35:50] <giacus> http://www.google.it/search?hl=it&q=fallimento&btnG=Cerca+con+Google&meta=
note the first link :D
I was talking about using the bottom and part if the sides, intact, so you wind up with a "cup", about 6" dia x 2 or 3" high
OH, heh I was taking cutting the sides out
turn the cup on its side, poke the shaft thru the bottom, the wheel faces the top
no seams or anything that way
HF sells a 3/8" keyless jacobs (brand) chuck for $5, ist uses a 3/8" thread. Was thinking just getting a REALLY long bolt (12"+)
pot metal bolts
brass rod ;-)
using bolts for rods is just wrong
this aint rocket science you know
I have some 1/4" SS rods, but that's about it. (well and 12ft of acme)
the chuck thread is pribably 3/8-24, right?
18-8 stainless steel 3/8-24 threaded rod 24" long, $5.30 from mcmaster
thats the definition of threaded rod
the problem is...
I'm talking only the end being threaded by about 1.5"
if you use a long shaft you need some support right behind the wheel
hard to put a bearing there if its threaded
do you already have the sanding disk?
you think it's gonna bow at 3" in from the end?
no on the sanding disc
hard to say
bolts aren't even guaranteed to be straight
the further the disk is from the bearing the wobblier it will be
I'd do one bearing very close to the back of the disk, and the motor/drill at the other end
(don't need or want two bearings)
jmkasunich and be able to lock it into position too
[Global Notice] Hi all. If your channel was just attacked, please message me. Thanks.
jmkasunich that drill guide is $27 at sears. 0967173000
Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
alpha1125 is now known as A-L-P-H-A
* chinamill is away: _
is it true that the circuits L297 and L298 most likely can be found in old dot matrix printers?
* chinamill is away: will try to have a look from time to time
is anyone at all in the channel?
I am having problems getting EMC2 installed on Ubuntu using instructions from Chris Radek's site
anyone here that could possibly help?
hi, what kind of problem?
I downloaded the install.ch
it downloaded the files....then closed itself out
but, everytime i reboot....and i run the install.ch...it downloads the universe package again
you need only run it once, you are probably done
have you tried running emc?
cant find it on here
synaptec does'nt show it
and it's not on the applications/misc menu?
ok there's probably an error message when you run install.sh
if i try to install it using synaptic it gives me an error saying emc2:
Depends: libglib1.2 (>=1.2.0) but it is not installable
Depends: libgtk1.2 (>=1.2.10-4) but it is not installable
Depends: libgtk1.2 but it is not installable
it closes before i can read if there is one
when you installed ubuntu, did you have a network connection (dhcp) during the install, or did you configure networking later?
i had to configure it later
which was a chore in itself
probably you have some repositories disabled then, since ubuntu does not configure the apt repositories at install time if there is no network then
do you know how to enable them or should we walk through it together?
I could use some help
open a Terminal
EDITOR=gedit sudoedit /etc/apt/sources.list
if it asks for your password, type it, and you will get an editor
ok this file is a list of apt repositories
there are lines starting with deb and deb-src
some have # in front of them, which disables them
you want to carefully remove the # from deb and deb-src lines
enable all of them but the ones ending in multiverse
you also do not need universe, which it sounds like you already enabled
actually...I am looking at a blank screen with a tab that says sources.XXykklfn.....
but there's no harm in leaving it enabled
EDITOR=gedit sudoedit /etc/apt/sources.list
did you make a mistake typing this?
go ahead and close the editor window and try again
in the Terminal you can use the up-arrow and then edit your mistake
are you stuck?
cradek: I'll take over
can you help |Magician| with his apt repositories?
I can try.. what seems to be missing?
maybe you know a better way to do this
I like to enable everything but universe and multiverse, so all ubuntu packages and updates are available
right, ok I can try to help him
Magician|: connection died?
Magician|: ok, no problem ;)
EDITOR=gedit sudoedit /ect/apt/sources.list
is what i typed
Magician|: I'll take over trying to help you
I got the same thing
make sure that is /etc not /ect
thanks alex, I have to run for a while
EDITOR=gedit sudoedit /etc/apt/sources.list
Magician|: can you look what the actual line you entered looks like?
did you type /etc or /ect ?
Its always the simple things
yes you were right
ok, try again with /etc
I typed it wrong
hint: /etc comes from etcetera (other stuff , usually configs)
Magician|: now a editor should pop up and you should be able to edit that file
does anyone know in what particular dot matrix printers the L297 and L298 parts could be found? i mean their brand names and so on
Magician|: still there?
all of the files with deb and deb src?
except the ones called universe and multiverse
at the end of the line you'll see those names
leave the universe files alon?
yes for now
ok, save and close the editor
you still have the terminal:
type 'sudo apt-get update'
without the ''
waiting for headers
ok, it will probably take a while to get the latest stuff from the net
but I'll be around all day, so there's time ;)
especially with my lighting fast connection....you can't get much out here in the sticks
Magician|: where are you located?
I'm sure you see people from all over on here
did you get the location?
Magician|: we get people from all over the world
yes, tennessee US
I'm in eastern europe, btw ;)
I imagine.....the more I read about it, the more I see how wide spead it is
we've got some regular folks from Sweden, UK, germany..
there is a frappr map with some users: http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller/
ha ha...now it says I have 37 updates available
thats a change
Magician|: you probably have ;)
magician: ever thought of direcway satellite internet?
alex_joni: is '|' STILL CALLED A "PIPE"
sorry didn't mean to shout
skunkworks: as far as I know, yes it's a pipe
yeah, I actually knew someone that had it, but I havent been interested in the bill that they send with it
right - best would be wireless you could share with someone close.
I ussually dl all of the larger files when i am at work with dsl
Magician|: installing emc2 will mean you'll have some larger files involved
mainly the RT patched kernel is about 30 MB
I direcway before dsl here near lacrosse, Wi. but dsl is much better.
but direcway got the job done over dialup.
I cant even get a cell to pick up signal here......I have to drive down the road a ways until I get a signal
Magician|: ouch ;)
yeah....I am not looking forward to the dl times
I live in a valley - which doesn't help either.
will ept-get pick up where it left off if there is a connection problem?
skunkworks: usually yes
but it's apt-get
:) ept is a pregnancy test over here.
Magician|: if you need further assistance, let me know
skunkworks: wanna see some nice machines?
nice little machines
boy - what kinda travel do those things have - emc2 conversion? :)
skunkworks: I wish ;)
I like the boards set across to get on the table :)
skunkworks: those are some serious tables ;)
I think 2 tables iirc
2 of those carousel lathes
and 2 vertical mills (if that's the name)
I like the "pendants"
that look to be about a meter tall
jmkasunich: those are the controls
pretty old (the most), only one retrofitted with a sinumerik
has anyone ever found an L297 or 298 in an inkjet or laserjet printer?
you know dot matrix printers are so damn hard to find nowadays
____Bo^Dick____: don't think you'll find one, usually they are integrated into a larger chip these days
they're all surface mounted as well too
btw, it would be intresting to hear from someone who has managed to actually find an L297 or 298 in an old printer or scanner for example
Bo^Dick... you are getting a bit repetitious
if somebody had found one they would have answered you by now
as alex said, modern printers usually have most of their electronics in a few large custom chips
yeah i know. that's why i'm aiming at the old stuff
now why do i wanna know this?
and whats with the "____Bo^Dick____" nick? a little long isn't it?
it's easier to locate when the channel gets messy
until everybody else starts doing the same thing and it makes the channel even messier
no on the contrary. if people would have like <<<<<<<Steve>>>>>>> or like ########joan######## and stuff it's easier to navigate
you should be able to configure any modern irc client to highlight messages to and from you (without irritating everyone else)
i can admit it's ugly but practical
anyway, I assume you are asking because you can't find anyplace to buy a new one, so you want to scavenge an old one
that the very situation yes
they aren't selled in sweden those little suckers thus leaving me in misery
xchat (installed on ubuntu) has a default config that puts your own messages in gray instead of black
is xchat a client or a script?`
the default IRC client on ubuntu
in fact it's a little funny that the regular mIRC don't have that feature.
its hard to believe the entire nation of Sweden has no electronics industry
____Bo^Dick____: mIRC does have that
or mail service
you need to enable it though
thanks for helping Magician while I had to go
____Bo^Dick____: you can even enable beeping & flashing when your name appears
granted, it can be hard to find suppliers that want to sell to individuals, but still....
cradek: no sweat
bo: I don't really think it helps anything
well then it's funny that it's in the off state as default
ANY electronics store over here can sell L297 & L298
and this is far away from sweden (less developed country)
well if you find it in my local dealer www.elfa.se please let me know
you only have 1 dealer?
that's the far biggest and established one here yes
in the entire country?
in that case maybe you should call and ask them to get it
so the situation sucks pretty hard
____Bo^Dick____: forgive me if I am doubtfull about that
alex_joni: where are you located?
show me a link to your dealer
____Bo^Dick____: I don't have 'dealers', I usually walk to the first store and buy them
this is BASIC stuff
well show me a link to a store then
[15:50:21] <alex_joni> http://www.vitacom.ro/
[15:51:45] <alex_joni> http://www.arrow.com/
<- in sweden
alex: to be honest, I doubt radio shack (the only real "walk in" electronics place we have) would have L298s
but there are bunches of mail-order places that do
[15:52:19] <alex_joni> http://www.ebv.com/en/websearch_results.html?search=L297
<- in sweden
even in big cities in the US we have to order things like this
jmkasunich: they don't always have them, but I can walk there and order if they are out of stock
usually 1-2 days and they got them
but this isn't true for any parts..
that's why I said 297/298 are BASIC ones.. I couldn't get fancy IGBT's or such
they are in Malm� and in Sollentuna
alex: I do notice a minimum quantity of 20 pieces
that could be a problem
jmkasunich: these are the big guys.. they should have local retailers
____Bo^Dick____: in what city are you in?
when I was younger I had contacted a electronic company and was able to get a few samples of the pwm stepper chip I was looking at.
yeah, most send samples too
(that was when you could not get them from mouser/digikey)
I got some MAX232 samples once
or was that 233?
again a chip you can find around any corner
what does the MAX232 chip do?
RS-232 to/from TTL translator
the "EBV elektronik" was promising but the minimum order or 20 pieces sure makes some trouble for me
a lot of trouble that is
MAX233 is the same but with the caps onboard
why are we talking about the MAX232 and 233?
____Bo^Dick____: why not?
they are nice chips
what are they used for?
and you need them if you want to make a micro talk to a PC
the PC uses EIA levels for serial communication (+/- 15V or so)
most microcontrollers use TTL levels (0-5V)
the MAX232 does the voltage conversion
i know. thats why i'll go for the parallel port instead
well, serial has some advantages
in some cases
you still need optoisolators..
is there an advantage with the EIA system?
____Bo^Dick____: how about up to 2km distance?
wider spread.. standard protocol, etc
I presume you don't use actual LPT protocols
yeah i've seen commersial stepper and servo drives with serial port communication only. the parallel is for us amateurs
well i'm not gonna use serial communication at all.
hm, you can send data through the lpt too is you want..
* alex_joni goes for a nap
the "Arrow" company doesn't seem to have a freetext search engine. how much does that suck?
is there other constructions than the L297/8 board that are of intrest in this channel?
or have you guys bought commersial drivers for your steppers/servos?
Bo^Dick: you could get an L293 and drive it directly from parport (phase-stepping)
Bo^Dick: elfa has stepper drivers..
search for "stegmo"
we have comercial drives for our stepper projects - mostly compumotor/parker
gecko is good also
skunkworks: he's trying to build drives himself
skunkworks: as geckos are expensive..
I know - we have been trying to stear him away from that.
trying to atleast get him to use the design that cradek is using
skunkworks: I could bet you the time($) spent equals a full system with geckos..
oh for sure. but you can't get upset when it doesn't perform. it is a learning experience.
but a doing it for to learn it is a different thing from doing it because commercial drives are expensive..
but it migh just be me.
giacus is now known as giacus_afk
what is the minimum recommended current and voltage rating for a stepper driver intended for CNC purposes?
that depends on the motor you are driving and nothing else
you can have very small CNC's
i'm in a good mood now :D :D :D
i did send a mail to phil who is the guy hosting the PMinMO site! i proposed the half-step compensation modification and he was very positive to the proposal!
want me to give a link to the mail?
if someone else in the channel still doesn't have stepper drivers
maybe i should discuss stepper driver hardware in the electronics channel instead?
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Bo^Dick: if you find people to talk this to, it's ok in here too
just don't clutter th echannel too much if there are users asking for help on emc ;)
1eagle seems to be an 4awsome1 program
how do i toggle between design and layout?
[Global Notice] Hi all. In regard our connect problems, we'll periodically reopen connections for just a moment in order to make sure you aren't shut out. Thanks!
ok i admit, i suck at using eagle. how do i select parts and wires so i can move them just like in orcad or pspice?
you know i'm gonna add some parts and thus needs to move down some of them
select the "move" command by clicking the icon or typing "move" and pressing enter
then left click the part to move, and left click again to place it
if several parts overlap, it goes into a mode where you choose the one you meant
i wanna drag and drop so i can select several parts and wires at once. isn't that the "group" button?
yes. First use group to define the items, then select move, then right-click to move the group instead of a single item
ok. it was the right click i didn't know about. thx!
keep an eye on the status bar at the bottom
when a group is defined, the status bar reminds you that you can use the right button
giacus_afk is now known as giacus
how do i set so that all wiring is ortogonal?
the damned wires bend and twist all along when moving them around
TorbaX_away is now known as TorbaX
btw, is it possible to simulate a design in eagle?
Bo^Dick: usually yes, but it depends what design
in fact what i would like to do is to simulate the L297/8 stepper driver design
then i could check if the torque compensation would work
hm what does torque compensation do?
eagle doesn't really do simulation
allow you to have more holding torque during half stepping/microstepping?
the feature is called "half-step torque compensation" and it does what the name implies. in fact besides that it add 40% more torque it runs the stepper motor smoother too.
hm, how much heat does it add?
you mean heat to the motor windings?
and the drive itself (more current)
none at all. not to the motor, nor to the driver
Bo^Dick: more current equals more heat..
it does only shape the signal so it's more similar to a sine wave and that makes the system 40% more effective
what i'm trying to say is that the torque compensation adds torque while maintaining the current levels. it just changes shape on the current curve
so i can only see advantages with this feature
have you tried it?
on a real motor?
i'm just redirecting information i've got from other sources
but i'm seriously struggling to understand eagle thats for sure
there must be shortcuts for selecting objects and moving them around
I am contemplating going out to machine some parts..
how do i add a simple resistor?`
of course i could copy paste from another one
hm, isnt there a symbol library?
or something like that
yeah but i got stuck at the resistor networks somehow. don't ask me how i did that
alright, have patience with me. now i wanna change the value of that resistor
you know i'm used to pspice and this is completely different :S
but this time i'm serious. i select a wire and press the 'delete' key. guess what. nothing happens!
[Global Notice] almost there, thanks for your patience....we should be back up continuously in just a bit
how can the delete key not be associated with deleting parts or wires?
how do i do a netlist check on a schematic in eagle?
there's a part named "IC5P" in the schematic. how can i search for it? can't see it in the schematic
you may wonder why on earth i'm not going through a tutorial but i just wanna make one simple modification to the board. i'm stubling behind the finish line
but this sucks so hard. the unmodified schematic compiles with warnings only. the modified generates: "ERROR: Sheet 1/1: no SUPPLY for implicit POWER Pin IC5P VCC". i haven't modified that part at all!
that has no relevance whatsoever with the other part of the schematic i've modified
you've got to help me. i'm too stupid for this
hm, isnt there a manual?
how do i show the implicit power supply pins for a part in eagle?
most of us don't know any more about eagle than you do
read the manual, google, find the eagle site and see if they have their own IRC channel, etc
btw, about the pminmo design. have you seen the huge diodes on the board? do they really need to be that large and bulky?
i mean the design can only handle 2.5 amps max anyway
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jmkasunich: i have read something about that mesuring item we spoke at NIST
jep, that was the name
* asdfqwega is at Notacon
did you know that they have the two balls only laying on three smaller balls ?? Holded by a magnet
asdfqwega: we can see that
asdfqwega [email@example.com] has joined #emc
such a ballbar is than realy simple to make
cool, I'm running tort-xyza.ngc on a real 4 axis system
it's funny to see xyz helixes with A rotating
cradek: any way to share that with us?
I can share the program but that's about it
* cradek finally has an A axis again
was thinking video ;)
the axis backplot doesn't show A does it?
yes, it rotates the cone
so it's R ;)
yes, guess so
that must look very strange
that's the best way chris
rotates around the X axis, whichever RPW that is
RPW is the way to go with the display
unless there's a way to specify additional stuff about the machine
Imperator_: A is a rotary table, R is a rotation of the head
R is a rotation centered on the X axis by definition, A is not
it's sure nice to see all the TP problems solved (combined linear and angular moves)
last time I had an A axis was in emc1, and it worked very badly
for some value of solved
cradek: do you have an yahoo account?
I'm not sure
* alex_joni stumbled upon some weird stuff on geckodrive
there are some plots of EMC path vs. MAVG path
[23:34:52] <alex_joni> http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/geckodrive/files/Comparison%20of%20MAVG%20and%20EMC/
huh, g28 doesn't send A home - is that a bug?
hm, don't know Alex. But al machines I know have named rotational Axis ABC regardless if the head or Tabel is moving. On five axis machines you have normaly on at the Table and one at the head and they are named A and B or so depending arround which axis they are rotating
alex_joni: I'm not a member so I can't see it
I am, what specifically do you want to look at?
hello alex? you still there?
jmkasunich: sorry.. was replying to les newell
yahoo are pricks... I can view the image, but when I right click and "save image as" it says it can't be found
I was gonna post them on my web
the two gifs
theres no info about how they created them
what version of emc for instance?
jmkasunich: right.. that confused me too
I think he wrote an app with the TP from emc, and with mavg
are there messages to go witht he files
and used that to plot
with the files
so an ancient TP probably, unless "he" is following emc2
cradek: it would be very interesting to see a smal video (maybe created by a simple digital camera)
no, ancient TP
interesting - which one does he think is better? they are clearly different
Mariss's moving average blending algorithm
cradek: he says emc is a bit better, ideally he says there should be no blending at all
with emc2 you could now get whatever amount of rounding you want
yeah, hes using ancient emc code
eh? no blending at all is trivial (and not what you want)
no blendng? "exact stop"?
'but emc seems to have some problems so he had to turn down accel'
jepler: 'exact path'
thats the bugs that cradek fixed in the last few months
at full speed if possible ;)
jmkasunich: _I_ know
the others don't
you are replying to that list?
fast, accurate, inexpensive: you might get two if you're lucky
MAVG is fast and inexpensive
jepler: the rotary axis works again
he's implementing it in a Z-80 clone
jepler: not sure why, I never use it, but it works
jmkasunich: I replied just for fun
I don't follow the list usually
just stumbled upon the folder saying EMC today, and it made me curious ;)
but it seems to me they are quite advanced on Mach 4 + G100
the g-rex is interesting, I just wish I had more time to mess with it
I have one, and the development kit
someday (I hope) I will write a dumb-mode HAL driver for it
heh, and matching firmware?
that might be a pita
I dunno whether they dropped dumb mode or if its still part of the fw
they are pretty far away from anything decided
that's why mariss is very vague on his website
lol, he even got an email about that:
"you have a product but no description of it
are you idiots?
you need to have specs and features, a general description and method
of operation (the protocol, high level/low level etc)
what software is included with it if any and whether it is compatible
with other software.
It's fantastically stupid that it's not there and incredible that I
have to tell you this
so get moving
I saw that
what an idiot
kinda reminds me of someone we all love