steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
OK, I'm late to the discussion of lathe threading, but here goes....
I agree that we should work from some document that is accessible.
Manuals for Haas and a few others may be available on line, but some times lack detail or are based on implementations that are not widely accepted.
One alternative is the Peter Smid book "CNC Programming Handbook" ISBN 0-8311-3158-6 which is widely available, including $45 from Amazon.com
It tends toward Fanuc, but it does a great job of explaining what all the possibilities and pramaters do in the real world.
steve_stallings: that sounds like a great resource to use while writing the emc threading spec
I would think so, even if you elect to use some style other than Fanuc.
I'm definitely opposed to any kind of closed standard
cradek: how hard would it be to have multiple "targets" for the interp?
telling people they need to do a fanuc post for milling and a haas post for lathes seems kinda silly
fenn: I don't really know
and since there are no "open" standards, except EMC (which isnt supported) you only have closed standards to choose from
this is why i'm pissed that STEP still isn't finished
well one way to handle that is "I won't buy your cam program unless you provide an emc post"
i dont think we really would make any dent in the marketplace
yeah that's always the problem with voting with your feet/wallet
each individual thinks he's insignificant
there's no open source alternative either
heh right now i'm trying to find a python SVG library to write a cam script
cradek: do you make other stuff with your mill besides circuit boards?
how do you go about doing that?
what do you mean?
do you just program custom python scripts for each part?
oh how do I write the gcode
sometimes I write a program that does it
often I use my autolisp program to generate the toolpaths
is that like autotrace?
if the shape is much more complex than a rectangle I draw it in autocad
[01:53:47] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/autocad
funny how your brain filters certain things out of consciousness
i never noticed that
it's very simple, but with autocad's power, you can do a LOT with it
i've never used autocad
it's like all those cad packages, except good
i've heard lots of trash talk about it
well, it used to be, my version is 10 years old, I don't know what it's like now
heh REALIZE probably doesnt even work with new versions then
actually it does, I recently fixed some things in it
DXF is the best example of a proprietary defacto standard gone bad
well I think DXF was always open
X stands for "interchange"
it wasn't some encrypted binary crap at least
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
there was some file format that was apparently encrypted, according to the person who was reverse engineering it
it was some cad program i think, maybe autocad
[02:32:49] <fenn> http://www.opendesign.com/about/faq.htm#encrypted
lerman_ is now known as lerman
my spindle encoder works, and I appear to have good spindle synchronization
I need to set up a tool holder of some kind, and cut some threads
you have lathe tools?
yes, a few
good, my sherline toolholder sort of fits
it's pretty short though...
Jymmm thx for the host id shite... now its just environment settings to sort out
03cradek * 10emc2/nc_files/threading.ngc: multiple passes at 29 degrees
* fenn pokes CIA-8
* Jymmm PEEKS fenn "You're a chicken"
* fenn clucks quizzically
how ya doin tonight?
after i ate a pound of reeses peanut butter cups i feel fine
today i swore i would actually program this dumb avr
* fenn sighs
Cool, then you can teach me
hmm you can join ##microcontrollers or #robotics
but ##microcontrollers does have a lot of babble about dumb stuff
No, it's much easier to just ask you directly =)
who says i know anyway
i'll be happy to make stuff up for you
I have a STK300 dev kit, but it's old
and has never been used in all the years I've had it.
i dont believe in dev kits
you're not gonna make a circuit out of it, so why even mess with it in the first place
Sheer learning purposes
or toss on a LCD and test up before making a pccb, etc
oh my God
[07:25:34] <TorbaX> http://www.afrotechmods.com/cheap/hdspeakers/hdspeakers.htm
it's terrible!! three way speakers with hard disk drive
the hdd ARE the speakers =)
there are many videos of them
fenn: wot's up?
Very nice text editor for WIN.. http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/
supports code folding too
* anonimasu likes what he saw in the thread..
err at the list
I have studied the torch height controller (http://www.campbelldesigns.com/plasma-torch-height-control.php)
and need some advise...
This THC is designed to fit a mach2 system, but I think it would be possible to tweak it to work with emc2, but I'm not sure.
Maybe we can define whats is to be done to get it to work.
There is something mentioned about THC in the wiki,
See point no 8 @ http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?EmcFeatures
This THC has a input: torch on ; outputs (to mach2/EMC2 ; 5V) Down; Up; Arc OK; Fault.
The trick would be to adapt emc to respond to the inputs it will get to actually move the z axis up/down.
This would be a really nice solution because then it wouldnt matter if you have steppers or servos.
chinamill: that's not hard to do
Have you done something similar before?
Are you familiar with the "arbitrary variable synchronization" in EMC
chinamill: that page is a wishlist
nothing in there exists in emc
Do you have any idea how it could be done?
If nothong works I can do a hardware based hack...
I have an idea, actually more than one
but the easiest would be this:
have a HAL module (very simple) with 2 inputs (Up, Down), output (a value) (output gets increased or decreased by the up/down
that output would need to get added (using a HAL adder) to the axis_Z position command, and feed_back (not to have following errors)
and that's it
How to connect the hal inputs up;down to the actual moving of the Z?
like I said: have a HAL module (very simple) with 2 inputs (Up, Down),
output (a value) (output gets increased or decreased by the
this HAL module actually has something like a counter inside
when IN is active it counts up
err... I mean when UP is active
when DOWN is active it counts down
so it's a small module which will hold an offset that will be added to the Z axis
ok... I can not say I'm compleatly with you, but do you think I can rely somewhat for help here if I spend the 400 dollars to buy?
chinamill: you can
Would it be possible to control the speed and accel of the z-axis movements?
this is at EMC higher level, this goes to PID (if you use servos) or to the stepgen (which has a velocity/accel limit)
so I think speed/accel can be controlled
there would be another pin that starts/stops the command offset
I think the first step would be start basic..
you don't want to control height with the THC when the torch is somewhere in air
chinamill: what I said is very basic
probably 10-15 minutes to complete it
I'll pray to the cumputing gods for that ;)
Would it be possible to map a up or down signal to a specific delta value for z like 0.1mm?
I would make a parameter for that
so you can set it based on what you need
if it's too slow, make it bigger
but it's not discrete
I think it doesn't send impulses
it sets an output
as long as the height is too little, it sets UP
and then EMC will move up, until the UP pin isn't on anymore
so I think 0.01mm or so would be better
because you add it every servo cycle
chinamill: want info on thoose ultrasonic thingies?
I've got the catalog here
got capacitive sensors there too
do you like the new webpage?
yeah it's really nice
how's stuff with you?
anonimasu: Thanks, but I'll think I start with the arc voltage type.
got better, was sick the other day
buying that thing?
yeah saw your message after you left
I think so...
ok, that's a good idea
unless you are a wiz at electronics
maybe not a wiz but I gt around... (I studied the components they use for arc V THC) It's tempting to use a voltage divider with HF filter and then do A/D convertion with a P18F452 I have laying around.
And let the pic feed the signal to emc2
If someone more was intrested in doing this.. it would be nice to share the testing... These things always take alot more time then you think....
chinamill: yup, that's the biggest problem
* anonimasu agrees
So then 400 dollars would maybe not be so bad for a (already working) THC...
always factor in tiem
unless you are unemployed and well, want to learn badly
Unemployed, yes :(
But it would be really elegant to be able to set the reference value with the serial interface to the P18F452, and to leave feedback to the PC with the serial interface about the actual voltage value. No dial or external displays... All stuff goes to the PC...
I'm unemployed but I have arranged a EU VAT number so if anyone needs help with a small project I can help out and then send a invoice that is valid for bookkeeping.
that'd be neat
In camplells package thaey have a current sensor (or current transformer). I think this one is not really needed since the tip voltage will eather raise or go to zero if something is wrong.
need help from you stepper gurus.
i've found out that a voltage regulator alone can be configured into a current limiter. now i wonder if it's responsive enough to be useful for a stepper driver.
If I were you I would be looking for a dedicated driver. Maybe some thing like http://www.geckodrive.com/
that would probably have been the best option yes. since i've already started this and spent 80$ so far i'm gonna finish it even though the end result is somewhat crappy.
Bo-Dick: in the end they all realize that buying expensive hardware is cheaper then building your own
well you don't have to convince me that the gecko design is superior to any aother home-made design.
i'm now so perfectly aware of that
if you want home-made use a L297-298 schematic
that should be good and simple (cheap) enough
yeah, if i only would have known that from the start.
that's why the 'net' is out there ;)
if i somehow would get the schematic of a geckodrive i would be afraid to solder my own
to gather that kind of information
but i guess it implements details not commonly known by stepper enthusiasts?
so far i've spent 80$ and i guess the total budget will fall under 100$ in the end. a three axis gecko would cost around 350$ without shipping
i'm aiming at a four axis system
yeah, but I think you can get a xylotex for less
[12:31:04] <alex_joni> http://www.xylotex.com/4axBoard.htm
175$ + shipping
[12:32:02] <alex_joni> http://www.xylotex.com/4AxSysKit.htm
how can geckodrive compete with that ??
i mean i four axis geckodrive system with motors would be way more expensive
are they good the xylotex?
there's got to be a catch when they are so much more cheap
they geckos are better, but xylotex are good enough
the term "good enough" sound good enough for me. who needs better than "good enough"?
they are lots better than homebuilt
you think xylotex is better than homebuilt l298? Why?
jepler: it can do microstepping, afaik
FULL, HALF, QUARTER, & EIGHTH step/Full Step
I guess I've never used a "micro"stepping system, but half stepping seems good enough: it gives you all the positioning you need on a mill
alex_joni: the new website broke the rs274ngc handbook links I used in the quick reference, e.g., http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/RS274NGC_3/RS274NGC_33a.html#1003436
alex_joni: is there a copy of this document on linuxcnc.org anymore, or should I direct the links back to the NIST site?
I think we should move that to linuxcnc.org
jepler: yay, I've seen that
OK; if you can move it there while preserving the URLs, that's great. If you have to modify the URLs, please let me know so that I can update the quick reference
no, I think I can keep it not modified
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
if you just copy the handbook over, and make it an "external" link, it should work
but it'll be ugly (relatively ;) )
out of curiosity, have you done a spider-style download of the old linuxcnc.org site?
Just got a request from a guy in Singapore for a bit of help with auto tuning of axes.
is he paying travel expenses? ;)
His request is 'I will like to ask you whether is there any function which can be used to record data in the shared memory from the real time to a text file."
HAL logging - hmmm
rayh: Koh Chin Hua ?
He's a poor student at the university but they should pay our way.
rayh: me too ;) (same request)
There was a save setup from halscope but I know nothing about it.
Might have just been an image from the gxx widget?
rayh: So, have you ever been to Singapore before?
too early for howdy
SWPadnos: Ug Ug Ug
Oh, if you use windows, this is a nice text editor... http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm
Mmmmm code folding
Programmer's Notepad is good as well
this one is free
GPL and source provided
same deal with PN, I think
PN comes with the WinAVR package - the gcc for AVR chips
No never anywhere in the "east"
rayh: I think you can go west to singapore :)
might even be faster ;)
here's a funny thing - it's less expensive to buy a round-the-world first class ticket, than it is to buy a round-trip from here to Europe (on United)
I plan a trip to Bejing later this year.
rayh JUST Bejing?
A few other places along the way.
phone is a nice place to visit
I've heard that
What's the avg (per sqaure inch) cost of a SS or DS PCB ?
$0.35-$0.50, plus setup
less in quantity
setup being under $100 ?
sure. how many boards?
maybe 10 to test, then 1000 after that at a time
barebones boards are $0.45/sq.in + $42 setup. 2 sides, plated through holes, no mask, no legend
lemme check another source
a white mask would be nice
I assume these are through hole boards
do you want mask and legend on the prototypes?
ok, the other place I use is $40 + $0.60/sq.in
what size are the boards?
nice photo ;)
Sh...oot. More errors in tkemc.
hi alex, thanks
rayh: what kind?
it's the crappiest thread ever cut, but I was happy anyway
second time opening the gcode editor.
Hey cradek. How do you get the nut over one end of that?
SWPadnos: individually? Or as a whole board then snapped apart?
rayh: you don't, it has both an entry and exit cut
think of it as a worm drive ;)
btw - great photo
jepler: can you try the handbook now?
Oh worms use a totally different profile.
SWPadnos: apx .300" by 8" or 12"
Nice job on the axis coordination, chris.
Jymmm, most of the cheapo proto services have a minimum X and Y dimension of 1.0 - 1.25 inches
Jymmm, so you might have to get a "standard" board
SWPadnos: Ah, is it possible to get 1" wide, but have it cut so I can snap apart?
Jymmm, not generally with the cheapo proto services - they frown on that
and they look for it
making LED carrier boards?
SWPadnos: I'd rather have a 12" sq board that I can snap apart. Yep, exactly
not really - then you're also paying for the routed area
SWPadnos: I was gonna design a PCB that I can use thru hole and surface mount on the safe board.
which in this case would e a significant fraction of the board area
SWPadnos Well, shit. I can always route it out myself I guess.
heh - you can engrave the proto boards too
just ask cradek ;)
SWPadnos but I can't do the thru hole, nor the mask/legend.
you doon't get that with cheapo services anyway
the minimum for a pklated / mask / legend board is in the $300 range (for the lot)
SWPadnos about what qty for $300 ?
one sec - I've got to log in for that
steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
how many holes?
6 per inch
err 8 per inch
8 holes, or 8 LEDs?
8 leds per inch - ouch
5mm or 10 mm
oriuented so the flats are against each other
SWPadnos: Hey, you're the one that found the 110000 mcd ones @ 10mm =)
same guy, I think
depends on which listing you look at ;)
Yeah, @ $2/ea
this guy sells in 5000 qty as well
Ray - last night I got around to reading back to the lathe threading discussion and recommended the Peter Smid book as a possible "open" specification reference.
It is available from Amazon for less than $50
SWPadnos: I'm still waiting for the 40K and 80K ones to arrive
It is to CNC coding what the Machinery's Handbook is to manual machining
Tends toward Fanuc style, but is well explained with examples of paramaters and real world effects
SWPadnos: $0.36/ea USD incl S&H http://search.ebay.com/7603923166
Jymmm, well, I'm having a hard time getting a real quote. There's apparently a minimum wodth for standard production as well, so I need to quote it as an array, for which there's no description of the parameters
nice work cradek
maybe tonight I'll get some bigger rod and cut something nicer
was there any following errors? (I take it your spindle was changing speed pretty bad)
only when I turned it up too far for the Z axis to keep up
I am pretty sure the spindle stopped sometimes (belt slipped) but it still tracked fine
cool. the thin and thick top of the treads? Just not centered?
right, not centered
video at five!
not sure if my camera can do that, but it would be cool
I'll try to get something better going tonight.
hmmm - maybe someone should think about bringing a (reasonable quality) video camera to Fest/Workshop
the camera I'll be bringing is still photos only
I'll probably bring a still camera as well (which can also do low-res video)
hmmm - it does 640x480 - not bad
now I need a 30G xd card ;)
yeah my card is 64M... can't get much video on that even if the camera does it
my old gateway and ubuntu has a really bad time with 3+ megapixel images.
takes near forever to get from one to the next.
I've got a 512M card, but it's not enough for much video
rayh: maybe there's a better image viewer you could try
SWPadnos np, thanks.
* Jymmm has a digital camcorder, but aint goin to fest.
Jymmm, I think I was seeing $3-$5 each, in 250-1000 quantity
but I'm not sure exactly how to interpret the numbers ;)
Right I was thinking that. Also the new gnome ought to handle them better.
SWPadnos: Yeah, it might be cheaper to have them make the full boards, then just cut them myself.
I should just get a bigger memory stick for it.
Jymmm, that was some kind of array price, but I'm not sure if I defined it correctly
rayh, this camera is a 12MP, and my ubuntu machine seems to like it
SWPadnos: Well, if it's cheaper for me to cut up, may not be a bad thing.
it's easier to populate as an array, but hard to cut once populated ...
I don't have any trouble with large files on the faster boxes.
rayh: maybe you don't have enough ram and are swapping.
I guess a dual opteron would wualify as a fast box ;)
SWPadnos: Heh, I wonder how clean of a cut I can get using rotobits? $1/ea and un/downcut are available too.
Jymmm, Hack Saw?
Jymmm, they'll probably work well for a while, but the boards are glass epoxy
SWPadnos at $1/ea I could replace them cheaply
what are the disadvantages of using a voltage regulator in a current limiting configuration for a stepper driver?
rayh this would be like 20 piece per board.
if you mean the PS that is.
hmmm - I suppose I could have just quoted it as a single board with a lot of holes and 120 route points
SWPadnos did they have a max dimensions?
12x16 is pretty standard for a maximum
SWPadnos that would be fine, half of 16" is 8"
wow. and half of 8 is 4
I meant for me cutting them
I have a minidv camera that does both video to a memory card or you can transfer full video though firewire. really quite neat and inexpensive. (plus it had 20 optical zoom and 900 digital) it was around $400
so you're saying that a quarter of 16 is 4 ?
I never said that
SWPadnos: but I still think so
I need to prove that
so you would want a 2x24 array, allowing for some cutter width
SWPadnos: Yeah, I wanted the snap aprt are various points (every 4") so I can have whatever length I needed, up to 16" long.
Bo-Dick_: If you mean a 78xx positive voltage regulator, one big problem is that it's linear (lots of heat dissipation)
Jymmm, in quantity 50, 2-week turn time, they're $82.98/panel
well if that's the only disadvantage i can deal with it
SWPadnos qty per full board?
Jymmm, yes, 2x24 at 12x0.5" each
Bo-Dick_: It's only the first one that comes to mind .. there may be others
oops, 2x24 at 8x0.5" each
SWPadnos so 48 8" long pieces?
scored, ready to break apart
in 10 qty, they're closer to $150/panel
$1.73/ea in qty of 50 panels
that's not too shabby I guess
white soldermask both sides, black or yellow legend on one side
SWPadnos do they offer a white mask?
err - white soldermask both sides
but you don't want a white legend on that ;)
white mask/black legend
white mask for the reflectiveness
it's a little more expensive to get a white mask, but these prices include that
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
2 week lead is $130.42/10, $100.77/20, and $82.98/50
take off about 25% for 4-wek lead time
$60.32 for 48 boards is a good deal
$82.98 per panel @ 50 panels == $4149
and 2400 of them ;)
if you're not in a hurry, then the $60.32/board is much better, at $3016
I'd want to look into the spacing for V-scoring though - it may be possible to cram a few more on a panel (or maybe less, if they need more than 0.2")
Hmmm, maybe I need to rethink the .300"
.3 is big for an LED, but much thinner will be very hard to cut away without breaking it
SWPadnos: I just need to be able to have mounting holes - maybe one per inch that'll accept a wood screw or 10/32 - maybe .200" and just score it before snapping apart.
you'll need to space the LEDs further apart or the screw won't go in
Speaking of linear regulators, what's the purpose of the "Tracking Preregulator" shown on page 12? http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM138.pdf
does it spread the voltage drop and thus the power dissipation across both LM338s?
SWPadnos: 1" was a guestimate, maybe .750" increments and one led per .750"
ok, I thought it was 4 LEDs per inch, because you said 8 holes
jepler, damned good question
it may be for heat spreading
SWPadnos Ah, one pair for a resistor (if needed), 2 pair for power/daisy chain, last pair for LED, and I guess two additional mouting holes
or dbl stick tape =)
they'll get warm, tape isn't a good idea
screw it, hot glue gun
I have some high temp glue stick here
not your avg wal mart stuff
meant for sealing boxes
are you thinking you want a bunch of 1" baords, or that you actually want an 8" single piece?
you get rid of almost all the power chaining holes if you actually use the PCB as a printed *circuit* board
SWPadnos I'm thinking minimum size being 4". But can have up to 16" long pieces.
Is the idea something like this? http://www.superbrightleds.com/light_bars.htm
jepler: Mostly yeah.
but not at $19/each
jepler and I'm talking 40000 mcd per LED
if you do a cost analysis (as a product), you may end up selling them at close to $19
SWPadnos might even be more due to the sheer brightness
for 1 foot, you're looking at ~$2 for the PCB (in large quantity), $3.50 for hte LEDs, $1 for other parts (resistors, diodes, etc), adn you still have labor
SWPadnos: If it's thru hole, could sell it as a kit for $19
maybe more for the resistors and stuff, since they may need to be big ones (1/2 wat tor so)
sell it with a drive power connector, and you'll be golden ;)
I can bring you one or two of the 36-LED boards I have, if you like (unpopulated, of course)
they're for 5mm LEDs though
I could never figure out what those "jumpers" were in that pic jepler gave. are they good ol' standart headers?
looks that way, btu I'm not sure
SWPadnos sure why not...
they're just 6 strings of 6 LEDs each, with places to mount resistors
See, I wanted to do something like this --> O------/\/\/\---|<-----O--||--O
if you don't think you'll use it, I'd rather hold on to them - they come in handy for special effects
where the || is where the board could be snapped, but is electrically connected.
FR4 doesn't snap very well, it splinters
it's better if it's V-scored
I can do v-scoring
the PCB houses do that
I ALSO wanted to leave pads on the PCV in case I wanted todo surface mount ones instead
though it may be more precise if you do it
or mix and match
that's not a problem, as long as the baord is wide enough
the problem you'll have is efficiency
no - electrically
hm, optimal effiency would be to PWM them..
these things will rin on 12V
so if you have a 1" board, that's got to take 12V in, which means you have one LED, plus a resistor
not necessarily 12V. What I was thinking is having three traces so I can mix/match series/parallel
so you're drawing 20-30 mA, and using 240-360 mW for that one LED
you probably don't want to do that - just change resistor values for different voltages
so in a PC case, use the 5V rail
the ideal is to use 2-3 LEDs in series, plus a small resistor (on a 12V line)
there are several advantages to that:
3.4V @ 4 = 13.6V
use 3, at 10.2V, plus a ~100-ohm resistor
(for 20 mA)
that way, the resistor is using ~40 mW, and the rest goes into the LEDs
it also allows you to chain more baords, because you don't need as high current from the supply
10.2 aint gonna happen
5, 9 12 13.8 24 ok
no - the 3 LEDs in series need 10.2V, the other 1.8 is dropped across the current limiting resistor
for a total of 12
I just wish those LED's would hurry up and get here already!
did you order from Hong kong?
they'll be about 5 business days or so, unless something goes wrong
Rcvd ack of payment on 23rd, today is the 30th.
then it should be soon
today would be 5-6 business days, after all
Just anxious is all
"I want it NOW NOW NOW damnit" Bart Simpson
heh - maybe you can compete with these:
[15:56:02] <SWPadnos> http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=1380&link_str=285&partno=NL-24-8-1
Hmmmm, what about flex pcb - on a roll?
that would be kinda cool - jus tcut to length ;)
and to fit any counture too
but you really want to have "rigid flex" - the areas where the components are would want to be backed by rigid PCB
oh, and flex PCB is about 3x (or more) the cost of standard
screw it..... wire wrap the bastards!
just drop all the components in a solder pot, and see what comes out
buss wire the damn thing
I bet if I made a fixture, that I actually could solder end-to-end w/o PCB, or find some kid with a soldering iron and no life todo it for me.
just make a fixture, and pay him/her piece work.
is mylar film conductive?
anonimasu flex pcb. you've never heard of it?
I've seen it
thoose rollable keyboards
anonimasu ok, just was wondering what the '?' was about.
plastic with thin metal inside..
anonimasu also in cellphones
Jymmm, mylar isn't conductive, but you have to be careful when soldering to it
err - near it ;)
SWPadnos HELP ME I"M MELTING
it's very easy to delaminate the traces from the substrate
damn, I guess I'll have to get a taxi ;)
ok, scratch the mylar ideas =)
SWPadnos what, you never heard of injection molding?
of course I have, silly
SWPadnos then what do you need a taxi for?
I suppose I should have asked what you were melting ;)
Me! I stepped out into the rain.
[16:36:01] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-10mm-Ultra-Bright-10-pcs-White-Led-130-000-MCD_W0QQitemZ7604111567QQcategoryZ66952QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
$7 for 10 of them
[16:38:15] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/White-LED-Set-of-5000-XtraBright-10mm-110-cd-Free-Ship_W0QQitemZ7598154279QQcategoryZ66952QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
$864 for 5000 of them ;)
though they're only 110 cd each
[16:39:29] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/White-LED-Set-of-50-XtraBright-10mm-130000mcd-NR-F-R_W0QQitemZ7604700607QQcategoryZ66952QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
135K mcd http://cgi.ebay.com/White-LED-Set-of-50-XtraBright-10mm-135000mcd-NR-F-R_W0QQitemZ7604432033QQcategoryZ66952QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
the thing to look at is the radiation angle though
brughtness isn't the same as "illuminance"
yeah, thus the sm qty, not 5000!
anyway - gotta go. time to do wome paying work
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
Hi les_w. I got another guy going on emc2 and servos with an m5i20 last night.
He's got 4 motors on the bench.
super busy with work...but this wekend I hope to plow
Be interesting to hear how they tune up for him.
just ordered a rototiller for the tractor
any idea of servo update rate ray?
Stock right now. That will be a later test of his.
* anonimasu is holding a guitar
He's an old time servo robot guy so I'm looking forward to his report.
but I need to go to work and fetch a plc in a bit..
need to work
I am having to do tax stuff
calls for missing 1099s
you know the drill
Ah right. I thought if they didn't send a 1099 by end jan you were in the clear.
???huh?? like income is not taxable??
what have I done...
that cant happen right?
Nah. The 1099 is designed to exract extra if you contract big time for only for one.
* anonimasu sighs
I with I could be free
I have not a clue about this stuff
I hand it all to the accountant and smile a lot.
but the accountant better work miracles
Mine seems to do that quite a lot.
they do, that's why you hire them
all of the sudden I am making money again.
if you do get one make sure she's old the kind that keeps spending balanced ;)
That's a good way to do it.
err of the old kind..
that rocks :)
* anonimasu is impressed by the lady at the office
my spending is a little unbalanced
I just bought a car cash.
True. IMO creative accounting is not a good job for the young.
drove it to chicago
My blood has thinned
I froze my a$$ off up there
Don't you hate that.
ah yeah :/
but wow did I get contracts
Sunshine and warm today. Lake is still frozen but I'd not drive a truck out there anymore.
60 and overcast here
You planting along with the tilling?
it's the golf course. First till, then drag chain harrow, then seed,straw, and roll
Ah. That is beginning to sound like work.
nah just weekend fun. I need to get out and do stuff like that to get away from work some
I need to dig a quick little pond for a source of watter too
I'll pump it up from a small creek
rayh: still there?
doing a bit of coding on halconfig.
was wondering about tkemc
you said earlier it has some problems
Ah. Yes I was getting errors still.
When I tried to edit a gcode file twice.
button already exists was the message.
hmm.. did that ever work?
let me see if I can help chase it down.
Yes it has worked until now.
what is it?
line 250 msgcat.
should read geneditStart programEditor "untitled.ngc"
I'll look at some of the other popups and then commit.
will you commit to HEAD?
Should we also commit to release
If yes, you'll have to teach me how.
* alex_joni is not sure what would be best
cvs up -r v2_0_branch
I could checkout a copy of "release" and fix and commit both.
make your change
cvs up -A to get back to head
or, make a new checkout of the branch in a separate directory (recommended)
yeah, I'd recommend that too
Okay. I'll do that.
have emc2/ and emc2-release/
the second one checked out with -r v2_0_branch
cradek: but will we commit each bug to both places?
err.. bugfix :D
Bugfixes have to be committed twice to be fixed in both branches
I think so.
yeah, I know they have to
ok, nm.. wasn't thinking straight :)
You might decide that some bugs don't warrant being fixed on the stable branch
but we have to be sure they are bug fixes, don't get confused
or that they should be fixed in a different way
right, what jepler says
I think "bugs" will propagate by themselves;)
rayh i started
i started adding logging capability to halscope, but its pretty rudimentary right now
(i.e., in 2.0 we should do a band-aid fix; in 2.1 we should make a more sweeping change)
* fenn wipes drool off face
How do you do that from rt?
rayh: the data goes through SHM to userspace
you uncomment a line in scope.c and it saves all active channels to scope.log
Okay and a user space program saves it.
By the way, CVS can help you merge the changes from the HEAD back to the branch. If your bug was fixed in version 1.21 of foo.c, you can 'cvs update -j1.20 -j1.21 foo.c' in the maint branch. CVS will perform the merge and leave conflicts in the file with the <<<< >>>> format.
You can also use 'cvs diff -u -r1.20 -r1.21 foo.c | patch foo.c' and if there are failures you'll get a .rej file
er, s/maint branch/stable branch/
my head reels from the attack of the teachers.
jymmm check out sparkfun or olimex prototype services
but for LED carriers you dont need all that fancy stuff.. just use the ol' ironing board technique :P
I'm not sure what the "ironing board" technique is either.
[18:46:29] <fenn> http://www.batchpcb.com/faq.php
oh the "ironing board" technique - print out on a laser printer and iron the paper onto blank copper-clad
you have to use photo paper or magazine paper
then soak in water and the paper peels off, and you can etch it with your etchant of choice
fenn: oh -- toner transfer + chemicals?
fenn: Have you actually had good luck with that? I've done it and it sucks
the best I found was to use transparencies, but it still was bad
[18:49:35] <cradek> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ladyada/109988714/in/set-72057594078225242/
cradek: transparencies and UV light on photoresistive copper
alex_joni: sure, but I mean the iron method
I work for a screen printing company. I just make a positive -> silkscreen ;)
found another --> invalid command name "emc_log_isopen"
I alwas wanted to try the iron on mothod though
even in this picture you can see that 2 of the 3 transfers are unusable
strangely, involving both the dremel thing I just mentioned, and the toner transfer method
I'm not worried about the ones where you can see that they are unusable
I'm worried about the ones that look ok, but aren't
and if it is something you rely on, forget it
actually 3/3 have obvious defects
cradek: Have you milled an invisibly flawed board yet?
seems like if they look good, they are good
jepler: milling is different
alex_joni: yeah -- it's dependable
you can see if you damage the cabling
but if it's shading of black..
new testing tgz: http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/~emc/emc2-testing-2006-03-30.tar.gz
Chuck up a sharpie perminent marker and draw the traces then etch?
My first circuit boards where painted on with finger nail polish. (I was around 10)
rayh: I thought about trying that with my pen plotter, but marker didn't seem to stop the etchant when I experimented
magic marker (sharpie) didn't work for me either.
unless they have changed the formulation sense then.
it seems to be common knowledge that you can etch-resist with a sharpie, but when you actually try it, you can't
rayh: I just added a newsflash to the linuxcnc.org page
and it needs approval before it gets added :)
radio crap used to sell dry transfer sheets. - that is what I used the most. (for one or two boards)
and I do have all the powers there can be on joomla ;) (so I think we're safe from users adding unwanted stuff)
But a good screen printed board is nice.
skunkworks: jepler just found some of that crap at my house, we both had a good laugh
no i havent done toner transfer but i know people that have
if you don't have a mill, photo processes are obviously best, but the sensitized board is expensive
If I where doing one now - I would try milling it.
skunkworks: milling works great. You get easy drilling too then, and the holes are even in the right places.
I actually had a kit that had a spray bottle of photosense. (didn't have good luck with that ither)
clearly what we should be doing is panting the conductive stuff onto the bare FR4 board
jepler: if the paint were good enough
but it's not, and it's expensive
jepler: a very long time ago, I tried that using a conductive ink marker and cardboard
we have samples here of screening for touch pads.
I thought I was some kind of genius to come up with the idea (I was really young)
(we do not do much electronic screening - mostly overlays and decals)
I also thought I could use darkly-drawn pencil traces, because I read somewhere that pencil lead is conductive
cradek: did we grow up in the same family?
cradek: did it work? :)
skunkworks: I don't think so...
fenn: uh, not really.
[19:01:15] <fenn> http://rifraf.rememberit.com.au/openservo/openservo2-bottom.jpg
<- toner transfer
I could never get the photo sensitive spray on the circuit boards evenly enough.
although you can make a grid-leak resistor for your radio with a pencil line (1-10 megohm)
some of the old ones even look a lot like a piece of pencil lead in a glass tube
graphite = carbon. a lot of resistors are "carbon composition". whatever that means.
fenn: that's nice fine pitch, but it looks like some things are touching that shouldn't be
maybe the sharpie works if you don't agitate the acid. But once I found out if I shaked the container the circuit board etched in minutes - I never looked back.
skunkworks: maybe, I always shook it too (and heated it)
yeah -- I see what looks like a problem at the very left side, the leftmost trace to the next to bottom smd
I'm sure you guys have all seen my one pcb picture: http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
have you guys ever used bakelite(sp) circuit boards? Eww (you look at the traces funny and they come of the board)
Here's another board from chris's cnc machine: http://axis.unpy.net/files/etchcnc/etch-board-full-small.jpg
(no small, tight traces there, though)
I had some really old stock ;)
jepler: I wish I had taken a picture of the board I made for ted - those smd pads were on .8mm centers
cradek: am I seeing the resolution of your machine?
no, you're seeing your browser scale the image badly
click on it
nope - that was my monitor
my firefox scales badly
yeah firefox has that issue
cradek: with your new rod, is it 6400 half-steps per inch?
yes in XY
Z is still 8000
[19:16:43] <alex_joni> http://www.humanupgrades.com/
go to Human Upgrades -> The Team -> Anesthesiologists
then select the 4th from the left
late reply. I was able to make several boards by using a sharpie but that was 1980.
rayh: had a friend that only took a copper board, and drew stuff with a marker
no schematic or design of any kind
* giacus is looking for a new brain as gift for berlusconi ..
[19:18:51] <alex_joni> http://www.humanupgrades.com/images/team/ane4.htm
<- that's "Emma Loop" (check out the description)
Right. I did a number of prototypes that way.
hey giacus, it won't take much of one to improve the situation.
maybe you know rocco siffredi
is a porn actor, he's on a spot in these days
Alex - I would want her on my team also - I think
he sayd, berlusconi is tired, give a vote and i'll sodomize all you for the next 5 years .. for free
im thinking up :(
9 april is near ..
IMO he's as slimy as most any political servant.
* rayh won't get started on politics.
yeah, its a black beast ..
btw, it a strange thing that a reporter to talk about him have to go in french ..
or other countries
they cannot talk about berlusconi-mafia here
justice is comprimised
thats the bad thing ..
and peoples is going on wathing TV programs
without know nothing about what happen to the other side
thats is italy today.
anyway, if ill find a goos screwdriver and brain ill try :P
just not as frankenstein junior
oh.. it was YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN 1974
great mel brook's
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[19:46:34] <giacus> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8751284902995767173&q=berlusconi&pl=true
if you want to know why i'm tired ..
* alex_joni wouldn't dare
and who is the 'best partner' ..
well the doc you see
hanst seen by italian peoples
instead, has been censured
fsc it, 55 minutes?
server is overload also I suppose..
try to listen some minuts
thats is a long story.. since 1990..
as I sayd, it is interesting because is whatt all wolrd seen except italians
what does not appear on TV does not exist
so, the power is information
berlusconi is now known as alex_joni
ok. looks like it's time to restart Mozilla. be back later
I was talking about our premier
he sayd we are anti-americans ..
because we are to the left an he's to the right side
I was thinkink if rayh is from somalia
les_w: from holland
stallam from china ?
hello les_w :)
speal of the devil...
I mean les_w
* giacus was thinking to another devil
ah....my microsoft wireless mouse broke...
Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
les_w: switch to the keyboard !
* MrAsshole poops on les to get his attention.
MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
* Jymmm thinks les_w has him on ignore
no I was crawling under the table
hooked up an old mouse
for the last two weeks?
oh...I was in chicago
I'm musta said hi to you at least 5 times
maybe just timing
I was in the shop a lot
getting ready for the visit
actually, WAY longer now that I think about it...
I have been busy!
Yeah, since March 8th
and I booked myself up pretty good for this year too
the rest of it
les_w: Well you have a few minutes now?
les_w Could use a lil help with ideas on that.
les_w I tried playing with some 1/4" acrylic bar, but not that effective.
les_w: how is going the invention and emc2 ?
any progress ?
i've not been around latest night
i'm working on the new website :(
it will take a bit of time
nothing on emc2 yet but the invention is going very very well
that is what part of my chicago stay was about
yeah, I know ..
I'm following, at least in that
I drove the new car and it did well
how much away is chicago from there ?
both ways about 3500 km
wow, a lot
yup that is why I wanted a very comfortable car
how many hours ?
les_w: Did you see that pic?
isnt that 3 hours..
not that far..
yeah I saw the pic
are you identified?
les are YOU identified?
you need a leaky lightpipe
with no metalization
les_w could you resend that please (up arrow)?
jacky can you do gcc now?
heh, or maybe g++ ?
les_w: think you wanted dcc not gcc ;)
oh, sorry ..
dcc ? no ..
I should do it
aw, I wanted to show you car pics!
wait .. a sec
I should edit some file, or ..
* giacus configuring email ..
les_w: what is DCC?
K4ts: file transfer via irc
oh les_w try with K4ts
yes I want to show you my car!
she's not firewalled I guess
just a sec
I should edit iptables instead
k4ts you should see a request window
click ok or yes
so the file will send
yes i accepted
it timed out
[INFO] Now logging to <file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/anna/Dati%20applicazioni/Mozilla/Firefox/Profiles/vhe6l3yg.default/chatzilla/logs/dcc/les_w/les_w.2006-03-30.log>.
mi da messaggio di errore
les_w: you can use email giacomo at giacus.org
or anna at giacus.org
ok I will email
No default action for objects of type ``IRCDCCFileTransfer''.
K4ts: no clue ..
I dont know much about chatzilla
you have a new mail box :P
aruba? io non ho rubato nulla ah ah
anna chiocciola giacus.org
forward to anna...it will take less time
passwd you know
les_w: I found gthumb is nice for photos
I seen alex_joni albums time ago and tried it
its very nice and simple
latest album I upload ws the total eclipse of yesterday :P
[21:07:17] <giacus> http://www.giacus.org/photo/hobby/eclipse/index.html
ok also sent to anna
I want to know if anna thinks it is old man car.
i'll be back in about 10 minutes
ok received ..
must check on grandma
old man car?
first of all its a very elegant colour
wow really old man car huh
dark pearl blue
I like black or whithe for cars
ivory leather and california walnut inside
in some case red
just for sportive cars
my bmw is red
my truck is white.
I don't see anything
* alex_joni goes to bed
so did k4ts see?
mmm fightin :(
skynet2:/home/jack# nmap -sT 22.214.171.124
PORT STATE SERVICE
25/tcp filtered smtp
135/tcp open msrpc
139/tcp open netbios-ssn
445/tcp open microsoft-ds
where is vnc server ? O_O
I was tryng to connect her and help
K4ts: run vnc server !
servizio non avviato
you should see the icon in the tray bar
les_w: i don't see your car! :-(
thats because there was a flag on remember my IP logging the mail box ..
K4ts: give me some min.
the server remember my IP and refuse the yours ..
[21:38:56] <K4ts> http://www.diamantiincantati.it/public/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=37&cid=2
les_w: look my little dog
looking at more pictures
I only have a cat and chickens
cat is old...16 years
my dog is sick
well that can be cured right?
what is that
i'll hunt it up
little mites that can be transferred just by touching something the dog sat on
yeah but it's expensive to cure
i googled it
dog scabies not transferable to humans
yes trasferable humns
as I sayd.. that dogs comes from east ..
and the funny thing is K4ts payed 250 only for insurance
the site I have says the mites might jump on humans for a lttle while but then they die
[21:52:20] <les_w> http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/scabies/factsht_scabies.htm
So once your dog is treated you will be ok too.
my do have payed 850 euro 250 for insurance
les_w: can I put your photos on my webspace to show them to K4ts ?
300 for pedigree
Ill remove it after ..
my cat and chickens cost nothing
but much food costs
in 16 years
[21:55:18] <K4ts> http://www.diamantiincantati.it/public/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=36
ah ah les
oh, yes put the car pic on the site please
K4ts: the mailbox seems to be locked from there, ill' see later ..
go here http://www.giacus.org/photo/hobby/les_w/index.html
old man car?
les_w: is able to choose cars
car just for les!
I needed something comfortable for business use
now to come at italy
with the car ?
oh, i'll need a ferrari for that
better with the plane ..
cosi ci porta con se
I flew some in chicago
but had engine trouble
youre a mechanical guy :P
whats the problem
les_w: tomorrow I come georgia :-)
Well, I did try some things in the air
or in office :(
les_w: Im already impressed by the crash of d'arrigo :/
but the engine continued to run rough
it should be a video online somewhere..
I returned to the airport and landed
bad intake valve I think
It was just a bit rough...I did not declare an emergency or anything
les_w: here is http://www.repubblica.it/2006/c/video/sezioni/cronaca/aereopic/aereopic/aereopic.html
it would misfire when I added throttle
[22:06:51] <giacus> http://www.tg5.mediaset.it/video/2006/03/vedivideo_5013.shtml
K4ts: you seen the video ?
did not load
the morning we was at the stallman conference
try the second url
oh I was flying one of these
was a small airplane
[22:07:53] <les_w> http://www.deltaaviation.co.uk/about/planes/warrior.htm
but it had newer instruments
large screen gps
the driver was a man with 25k hours of fly
not d'arrigo ..
still trying to see it
the're were 2 peoples aboard
the other was driving
what should I click?
non vedo nulla
[22:11:24] <giacus> http://www.tg5.mediaset.it/video/2006/03/vedivideo_5013.shtml
should be attomatically loaded
or maybe depend on player you've installed :(
i'm using mplayer, windows media player should work too
that video don't show much ..
I don't see
lot of peoples captured the 'scene' with a cellphone
peoples was thinking at virtuosism
les_w: he flyed on everest
one of the airplanes at the field in chicago crashed a couple weeks ago.
here's another http://multimedia.repubblica.it/home/173056
I had flown that airplane a lot.
btw' it seems a human error there
yes crashes are usually human error
I was thinking an engine issue ..
I have lost an engine once
I glided to a good landing
giacus I have new blotch on skin
K4ts: don't worry about it
when your dog is cured you will be too!
this morning you talked with doctors ..
haha I have lots of blotches
laying on a beach in florida for 10 years will do that
I lived on the shore
good night k4ts
see you tomnorrow
dont worry ;)
I guess I will draw up a lossy lightpipe for jymmm
for his edge lighted signs
oh.. i thought he was fixing a busted LCD screen
mm hard to get, I guess
I eard he was talking about smt components some day ago
[22:48:13] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=727346500427703770&q=lathe
anyone around for a question?
sorry, dropped connection...Anyone here?
what's the question ?
just reinstalled with ubuntu and emc2...
everything is working well until i try to set up 0.5mm backlash for an axle...
hey giacus watch that video
when running the axle, it make a small tick and pops an error... some about joing out of...
seems like that the backlash compensation speed is too high... i cant seem to turn it down...
is this a stepper machine?
does emc error
or does your machine lose steps?
yepp, "joing out of sync" or something and the emergency stop goes on
"joint out of sync"
* anonimasu has never seen that before
what happens of you lower it?
0.5 is pretty large backslash
* ramsberg blushes.
i will fix that...
try using 0.05
and see what it does
just to see if it still happens
ok, ill do that right away... brb
anon thta's a monster not a lathe !
[23:13:39] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7790843153265630790&q=tool+changer
watch that ;)
incredible fast machine
japanese company I suppose
for what I seen
[23:20:18] <anonimasu> http://www.pluritecindustries.com/pluristation.html
that's a pleasure to see that machine working
I love the first lathe
it blows my mind
wonder about the cost
but its cool, really
if you crank out a 5$ part every 3sec..
like huydralic fittings..
thats 100$ per minute..
thta0s really high tecnology
[23:25:38] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3250521071319788207&q=cnc&pl=true
*never gets tired of watching*
yeah, cool videos
[23:28:51] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2694766710211797290&q=cnc&pl=true
look at the end!
they turn without coolant
Hi, im back after my backlash test...
giacus: makes you crave for a lathe dosent it?
how did that work out?
seem like the error comes when the backlash gets over 0.3mm... is there a possibility to limit the backlash velocity=
anonimasu: I really changed idea about lathe
I dont think there is
ramsberg: did you touched any other parameter around the ini files ?
ramsberg: usually backslash isnt that large you might have ran onto a bug
giacus.... well... pretty many of the yeah...
hehe... then the bug is "no ballscrews"
what kind of screws are you using anyway?
10mm trapetziod screws with regular metal nuts...
hm, no preloading?
or just --nut--nut--
with a bit of preload
no... have experimenting a bit with twisting the nut sideways a bit and mounting it a bit twisted
with some success...
hm, you should try it if you want to reduce your backslask to almost zero..
ramsberg: ah you arr a swede too .)
and I thought I were all alone :p
[23:41:38] <anonimasu> http://www.liutaiomottola.com/Tools/Backlash.htm
been thinking about some designs of a --nut-nut-- solution but hasnt come up with anything yes...
ramsberg: hoy you checked the backslash ?
i use a hmm... whats it called... micrometer? like a clock with a pin that pushes into it
borrowed it from a guy with a mechanical shop
gague.. that is :)
you could also try this: http://www.yty.net/cnc/
ahh, yeah, dial gague .good for 0.01mm
at the section: Today I got EMC's backslash settings configured....
btw' you're probably right with measurements
I'm going too ..