quick chicken marinade for bbq is garlic, lots of lime juice, a bit of olive oil, and a touch of worchester sauce.
toss it all in a ziplock bag and ready in 20 to 40 minutes
also good for beef (fajitas)
juice of two limes, everything else to taste.
oil is just to help coat everything
i'll try it
avoid lemon if you can, changes the flavor
i like to use brown sugar in my BBQ sauce... granny's special taste
as opposed to molases you mean?
mlases is nice too... if you can cook with it
i still end up using b'sugar to finish it up..
I never tried making a bbq sauce, but never have really been into bbq sauce too much either... I'd rather slow smoke a slab of meat i think.
of burry it in the ground
over hot rocks
gawd that was good...
I was even chowing down on the strings they used to tie the meat up
lil tender morsales of meat stuck to the string =)
has anyone used engraving bits in their cnc ?
rayh is now known as rayh_away
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
* fenn belches and yawns
silly me got all excited about gravy and ate 6 cups of mashed potatoes
* fenn kicks sdp-si in the nutts!
sumbitches dont even have the right pulley
I have a dumb question... why do commercial routers that you find at home depot go to 25k RPM, but we as machinsest types use chipload to dial us in to an optimal speed/feed situation?
because a 110V DC motor spins at 25K rpm
that's what the mfg set it for, but why?
the routers at Home Depot are meant for hand use, cutting wood
if it smells/looks burnt, go faster
if it's hard to push or sounds like the motor is bogging down, go slower
there's automatic "chipload compensation" in the control system ;)
Right, but everybody will try to move that as fast as then can (most of the time)... so moving by hand at 25000 still doensn't "add up" chipload calculation wise.
what are you thinking is an appropriate chipload for wood?
too many densities
i think you expect a lot better results with your CNC router than you would if doing it by hand
then how can you say it "doesn't add up"
fenn EXACTLY... That's why when I do something per chipload (looking it up in the charts and everything) it's likw 18000 @ 80 IPM
40ipm is a rate you can do by hand
but the 25k speed on the routers at HD is the no-load speed
there is some sort of primitive speed control on your router right?
on mine yes, and compensates for load too
can it keep up if you try to rout in wood by hand?
(as fast as you can go)
but I'm not talking MINE
In general the avg rpm is 25K
With that in mind, and say feed by hand is 40IPM whatever that calculates chipload wise isn't gonna be the same for everything; but it still does the job nicely.
does that make sense what I'm trying to convey here?
sure - the chipload is partly to make the cutter last longer
when you're cutting something so soft like wood (using a steel bit), I suspect the optimal chipload isn't that much better than a lot of non-optimal chiploads
cutting Iron, it'll matter a lot
do you find that you actually get the best results with the manufacturer suggested chipload?
fenn: not so far
I find nothing, since my BP is effectively a very nice drill press right now ;)
was asking jymmm
Even doing the math outright, I'm not getting the best results
SWPadnos: you have the handles on it still right?
yep - they're back
so that's more than a drill press by my definition
yeah - a very nice X-Y table on a beefy drill press
I can say that there's an obvious sweet spot in milling aluminum
er, what's the difference in your view between a drill press and a milling machine?
I've cut 1 inch deep, 1/2inch width slots, and I could easily feel the difference that going a little *faster* made - it started to cut like butter
umm, a milling machine is stiffer
yes - faster was way easier
up to a point
Let me back up a bit and explain....
I bought an engraver bit to play around with. suppose to be around .002" chipload. ok I do the math, set the speed/feed and I get shitty results in some aluminum I have. Ok I play around drop with the feed by half each time. then play with the speed. no matter what combination I do and with max depth being .004" I still get shitt results and burrs around the evngraving. So I'm at the WTF now trying to understand.
would that normally be used in a router, or an engraver?
it's 1/4" shank is all I know.
the mfg makes tooling for the CNC industry
what's the tip angle?
is that net, or per side?
you using any cutting fluid/lube?
(I don't know how they spec these things)
the alloy might just be a pain
.004 is barely past the aluminum oxide (hard) layer
[05:17:55] <Jymmm> https://www.onsrud.com/xpost
sigh.... product click any, then the search box appears
bah screw that website
and thats the NEW website as of a week ago
there's no datasheet
the NEW website is _always_ worse
60 deg total .01" tip flat
60 degrees gives you an extra 0.002 in diameter, so the effective is 0.012
what SFM were you using for your calculations
80 40 20 IPM
I mean cutter Surface Feet per Minute
that's step 1 in the calculations
chipload was .002" iirc
RPM comes first, then chipload
what is your rpm?
RPM comes from SFM though
right, I'm asking him what RPM he calculated
8k 18k 25k
I'm thinking there wasn't a calcualtion there ;)
When I explained I said I tried various combinations
33K RPM on a diameter of 0.012" gives about 100 SFM
which is about as slow as you want to go
if the tool is carbide, you probably want 300K RPM ;-/
if you add collant / lubricant, even faster
(Tap Magic for aluminum is great, and even smells nice)
jmkasunich I'll ask you about the carbined comment in a sec, but in the onsrud catalog they have these threes formulas"
[05:24:55] <SWPadnos> https://www.onsrud.com/xdoc/ChipAluminum
for a cutter that small, you probably don't want anywhere near 0.002 chipload
it's a V cutter, 60 degree, 0.010 end face
(not sure if you missed that)
ok, so maybe
1) ChipLoad = FeedRate / (RPM * # of cutting edges)
that means 33K RPM = 66IPM for one flute, 132IPM for 2
2) Feed Rate = RPM * # of cutting edges * chip load
3) Speed (RPM) = Feed Rate / (#of cutting edges * chip load)
those formulas are all correct, but they don't tell you anything about how to calculate the optimal RPM
set your RPM as fast as it will go, put some tap magic or wd40 on the surface, and experiment with different feeds
(they're the same formula, rearranged)
SWPadnos No it s engraver bit
not a v tip router bit
optimal in this case is as fast as it will go I suspect
SWPadnos they have chipload charts in here
but they still don't tell you how fast the cutter tooth is supposed to pass over the work
chipload is secondary to speed and fluid IMO
how fast can your spindle go?
jmkasunich 8K to 25K
i never really understood what the "best" SFM was and why
SWPadnos #2 Iabove
nope - that's not it
ok, at 25K and with a cutting diameter of 0.012", your surface speed (at the outside) is 78.5 SFPM
100 SFM is considered normal for HSS steel tools cutting steel
200-300 for HSS tools on alum
500 or so for carbide on steel
and 1000 or more for carbide on alum
2-3x for carbide, another 2x for the right fluids ...
so no matter what you do you are too slow
[05:31:05] <Jymmm> http://www.onsrud.com/pdf/NewProducts.pdf
37-03 is what I have
all you can do is set the spindle as fast as you can, put some fluid on there to prevent chip welding etc, and trial and error the feeds
Jymmm, chipload and SFM (cutting speed) are not the same thing
you can do math till your blue in the face, or you can go experiment
SWPadnos then explain what SFM is?
go look at the tool first then come back to me so were on the sam epage please.
it's the speed at which the cutter actually cuts the work
SFM is the speed at which the flute of the cutter moves thru the metal (rotation speed * circumference of the cutter)
I looked at it already
feed rate and chipload don't have a damned thing to do with SFM
the only thing that matters for SFM is tool material, work material, and any fluid you might be using
well it's single flute then
consider this - if you're sawing a piece of aluminum, how fast do you pull the saw?
the number of flutes doesn't mean a damn thing either
wow jmk right on the nose with 300krpm
== 942 sfm
trust me - spindle as fast as it will go, WD-40 or tap magic on the tool, try different feeds until you get good results
jmkasunich so SFM has nothign todo with the article you had me read a few weeks ago?
I have no idea what article that was
I can't remember what I said a few days ago
jmkasunich something out of the archives
old news posting
that is feed, not speed
SFM is speed
the first paragraph or two of the article talks about speed
and the rest (the trial and error, go by ear part) is feed
it was long can only remember bottom line
fsck, 12:30, and I have to catch a plane at 7am
why am I still here?
night jmk ;)
there goes one master procrastinator
no engraving machine is gonna be doing 300K rpm
fenn show m one that does
[05:37:16] <SWPadnos> http://www.chipblaster.com/Tech/MillDrillFS/Aluminum.htm
note that for a given material, the SFM is constant, though the RPM and IPM change all over the place
for a 0.004 depth, you could almost drag the engraving bit over the wrok with the spindle off
a dentist drill can do 300000
and all the values were between what I tried combinations of too, but single flute.
fenn but that's not an engraving machine
Ok new hermes IS400 max rotation speed 20k
fenn then you find better.
what is the actual maximum diameter?
the tip is .01 what is the width of cut
.012, because it's 0.004 depth with 60deg angle
hmmm - maybe it's a little more, cos(60) is 0.866, not 1/2 like the sin
Even this one is only 20,000 RPM --> http://www.gravograph.com/usa/Engraving%20Machines/IS6-7-8000.php
no, wait - 2*cos(30) = 1, so it's 0.014
dunno what you're doing swp
So what I'm not getting is why do I have more RPM than these dedicate engraving machines, but getting shitty results.
heh - trying to do trig in my head when I'm tired
like the old saying "people shouldn't drink and derive"
tan(30)*2*.004 == fucking bc god dammit
christ who designed bc without any trig functions
and units fails me also
never heard of it
(assuming you like rpn)
and no, i hate rpn
I think it's 2*sin(30) * depth = 0.004 + 0.010
not orpie then
nope - I'm wrong
ok, I can't do simple math in my head. time to go to bed.
ok I was mistaken.... max depth 0.422, making max width .0587
ok I was mistaken.... max depth 0.0422, making max width .0587
good night guy
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
* fenn suffers the misery that is kcalc
ok diameter is .0487
tan(30)*2*.0422 is .0487
the CAM is telling me max width is .0587
(maybe a bug - who knows)
oh it's got a flat point
that's where the extra .01 comes from then
gawd, onsrud makes nice tools but suck websites
tell them you'd love to shop with them but the website makes it impossible
not worth the trouble
why not? they might actually fix it
my browser just shows a blank white window
it's a large pdf
onsrud.com is a flash animation
ok... .0587" @ 25K RPM = 384.19 SFPM
[06:05:13] <Jymmm> https://www.onsrud.com/oc/mydata/common/xDocs.nsf/0520a971a66adeffc12569ab003d8ce1/8625712c0079db06c1256ec200405fb6/xRichDesc1/0.49BE?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg
i was really just whining more than anything
lerman_ is now known as lerman
the following is the error information:
g++ -o ../bin/inivar objects/libnml/inifile/inifile.o objects/libnml/inifile/inivar.o
/usr/lib/libc_nonshared.a(elf-init.oS)(.gnu.linkonce.t.__i686.get_pc_thunk.bx+0x0): In function `__i686.get_pc_thunk.bx':
: multiple definition of `__i686.get_pc_thunk.bx'
objects/libnml/inifile/inifile.o(.gnu.linkonce.t.__i686.get_pc_thunk.bx+0x0):libnml/inifile/inifile.cc:33: first defined here
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [../bin/inivar] error 1
I really don't know how to resolve thI really don't know how to resolve the error when I make emc2testing.e error when I make emc2testing.
Please help me,thanks
kevin: I think nobody has answered because we have no idea what's wrong
it looks like a problem with your compiler setup.
can you compile any other program?
you also don't say anything about your system configuration
my linux is debian ,rtlinux3.1 with kernel 2.4.16
and I use gcc-2.95 to complie kernel and rtlinux3.1
then I "ln -sf /usr/bin/gcc-3.3 /usr/bin/gcc"
and use gcc-3.3 and g++-3.3 to compile emc2testing
so do g++-3.3
kevin: see this message, and then the mailing list message it links to. Maybe upgrading binutils will fix the problem. http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2004-09/msg01528.html
I will go out for half hours
kevin: I think you need the same compiler for both the kernel and the modules for it, so compiling the kernel & rtlinux with 2.95 and emc2 with 3.3 will probably lead to problems :(
alex_joni, we can not use gcc2.95 to complie emc2, so I choose gcc3.3(debian release)
yes, but you compiled the kernel with 2.95 if I understand it correctly
and they won't mix well, I'm not sure if it works (didn't try it..)
yes,I compiled the kernel with 2.95
because we need to use gcc2.95 (kernel gcc) to complie kernel 2.4.16 &rtlinux3.1
I will try to use gcc4.0 to compile emc2 later
like I said, I don't know if you can mix compilers
but I know there have been some changes to the emc2 build process, so you can compile on older gcc's
try an update of the emc2 source, and try again with the 2.95
but now this computer isn't the pc used to run emc2, so I will update it later
thank you :)
kevin_: no problem
I use "ln -sf /usr/bin/gcc-3.3 /usr/bin/gcc" to change gcc
03flo-h * 10emc2/tcl/bin/halconfig.tcl: Added more i18n support (msgcats)
03flo-h * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: Added border between picture and tree
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
Heh... almost had visitors into the office
all of the two winged kind
03flo-h * 10emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl: fixed path to .msg,..
03flo-h * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: added msgcats for i18n
03flo-h * 10emc2/src/po/de_rs274_err.po: fixed an error
looking for the cheapest microcontroller out there
looks like about 30 cents
well, gas ranges
I don't think you'll get a 30c micro in that low a quantity
.038 quan 100 for an atmel 8 bit risc in digikey
how much processing power do you need?
oops again .38
an 8-pin ATTINY?
Ha I need more than it has
iK memory 8 MHz...no way
looks like mixed signal....
bring out the lm 2902s again
tone decoder for an analog signal?
(ie, analog into the micro)
eight pennies for a quad automotive under hood rated
I'm surprised that the tinys are that cheap - $0.28 in singles is great
oops - $0.28 in 95 qty
couldn't do an ultrasonic tone decoder though
I don't think
it's only 2 MHz, but it may work if you only need to detect one of 4 tones
it you need to control the frequency, then you'd need more power
nah just detect
how far apart are the tones?
have to compare that to 4 op amps with twin T or similar
tones will be quite far apart.. 12 kHz or so
all below 100 kHz
that may be doable with a tiny. one input only?
what does it do when it detects (or doesn't detect) a valid tone?
can you write tiny code for this?
you may have a job here
ok by me ;)
this is a very big project
I like big projects
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
what a lunch I had. Filet mignon left over from yesterday!
cooked on cherry wood.
oh, SWP...I gotta sell them +125c max or we are dead in the water here.
I got the mill togther today
not the cnc one yet, but I can use my regular tooling now
ah, cool. what was stopping you before?
the spindle didnt fit the machine
you made your own mill?
I made a adaptor for the horizontal spindle..
so I could skip using the drill spindle
oh your retrofitting a cheap mill
heh.. I saw one similar for 5000eur..
what was different; bearings?
it were 5 years newer..
besides age I mean
they sell around there..
Basiclly what did you change to turn it from a drill spindle to a mill spindle
someone already made the rapid chocolate prototyper.. http://www.instructables.com/ex/i/961360D260131028A786001143E7E506/
i'm so bummed
I made a adaptor for the milling head from another mill(cousin) to mount to it..
cousin/another schaublin of compareable size
[18:29:59] <anonimasu> http://www.anglo-swiss-tools.co.uk/Schaublin13.html
oh a minimill..
nfc, but it's ok
What I was asking i... what makes a mill spindle not a drill soindle (generically)
less the typos
well, smaller tooling..
and less stability and high internal gearing
that's what differs them..
steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
the bearings of a drill spindle are more angled for thrust loads than side loads
* anonimasu nods
wow, this looks like total junk: http://220.127.116.11/stepper/FET3dynamo.htm
"QBasic software allows sample rates up to 600+ Hz (depending on the clock speed of your PC's cpu)."
* robin_sz is exhausted
hey now, no mocking my QBASIC =)
10 LPRINT CHR$(12) 20 GOTO 10
second language I learnt that was .. at the age of 15
LOL... My very first CNC experiance and didn't know it 20+ years ago.... FORMFEEDING the highspeed dotmatirx printers till the tray of paper emptied (jogging)
there was a POKE on the commodore PET that made smoke come out
robin_sz: BTW... the stated chipload for that was .006-.006, but I talked to the folks at Onsrud this morning and they're thinking the tip width is about the limit on the depth.
[20:22:45] <jepler> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_poke
yeah, width = depth is usually as deep as you want to do
depth = width/2 is a safe option
robin_sz well it being an engraving tool you would think you'ld want a beveled wall
that sounds right
anyhow... gonna try that later and see how it does.
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
Anyone know long a small pkg take to go from HK to US by chance?
hm depends entirely on how you ship it
air or sea?
hm no idea what that is..
jepler: Many, that is pretty bad for so many reasons.... driving the motors at 12VDC, power resistors, then the statement "Motors run smoothly without resonance in the full operational range". That alone would turn me away.
Hand carved, but awefully purrrrrrty... http://www.chipcarving.com/gallery.htm
Is it possible to ad your own M-codes to EMC2?
yes, you can make a program or shell script run when you use an M code
there are examples M101 and M102 already installed I think
ok, I guess I'll have a look in the emc1 documentation then.
chinamill: look in /usr/share/emc/ncfiles/M101
chinamill: it works in a very simple way
craked: the M102 example seems to be very powerful
good, I hope it helps you
(just a mock-up, it doesn't actually do anything)
03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/bin/emccalib.tcl: tabbed widget save is still broken.
m103 the ultimate bug. sudo cd / ; rm -rf
doesn't work on ubuntu anymore ;)
you need to type a passwd after sudo now
at least with the default security settings
Oh I defeated that already.
I said default, if you change that.. it's your problem :)
da fault is all mine.
alex_joni: what you used to get the mosaic image on your homepage ?
any plugin ?
I'm playng around this: http://www.kirchgessner.net/photo-mosaic.html
its cool :P
but that was ages ago
* alex_joni goes to bed
See you alex
Lots of progress today.
maybe yours.. I didn't do anything the whole day :(
was feeling bad
jepler: for some reason I'm not getting depend.sh from cvs. did you remove it?
cradek: depend.sh <= depend.sh.in (even though it doesn't actually have any @SUB@s anymore)
cradek: what did you think of 'to.py'?
jepler: it looks just like Snap Off or whatever you called it
seems like a simple enough solution I guess
it just seems kinda clunky
I'm not sure I like it a lot, but when in doubt, do the simplest thing
I'm also not sure where to invoke it from
does it go on our poorly-organized menu under "Edit"?
Do you still have the notes from last time we decided to clean up the menus?
mmmmmm not sure
yay, I see the beginnings of tabs in emccalib, that will be much nicer
dont forget the CTROL+PGUP/PGDN please =)
Jymmm: what should that do?
jepler that's the kybd commands to switch tabs; CTRL+PGDN to switch to the next right tab, CTRL+PGUP to switch to the next left tab
Jymmm: I've always used ctrl-tab; I've never heard of those as shortcuts to do the same
CTRL+TAB is to switch windows in an app
err to switch applications
CTRL+SHIFT+TAB and CTRL+TAB
ALT+TAB switches applications
jepler M$, Mozilla, and FF all use the CTRL+PGUP/DN for switching tabs
no, they all use ctrl-tab
mine seems to do both
am I speaking to the real Jymmm or the mirror-universe one?
jepler: Yourright, I said it correctly the first time, was thingking of something else
with a goatee?
This reference only mentions CTRL+TAB, not PGUP/PGDN: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/appxB.asp
jepler: Try it in Mozilla or FF
CTRL+TAB Display next tabbed page or child window (MDI)
yeah, CTRL+PGDN also works in my FF
CTRL+TAB usually switchs between windows in the same application, But when you have multiple windows and tabs, that's when the CTRL+PGDN/UP comes into play
Jymmm: do you like keyboard control ?
I certainly like keyboard control
Ion wm would be great for that
giacus VERY much so. I can do everything via kybd, except drag. (well I can do that too, but cumbersome)
I like it because its very custoizable for that
emacs as editor too
veri nice keyboard control
I had some issue at the begin with irssi the irc client
where alt was already used by ion
replaced by esc
but its simple to map new keys
and, some other issue using gimp
opening lot of windows :(
for remainder I got a very nice keyboard control everywhere
jepler: It's mentioned at the bottom of this page, but has been around since Windows95 that *I* know of/have used. http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/UxGuide/UXGuide/Controls/tabs.asp
Thanks jepler! Making me search thru that made me find a kybd cmd that got changed after Win3.10 woo hoo!!!
whats with this new linux XP???
[22:31:11] <dmessier> http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/linux-xp.html
[22:31:54] <dmessier> http://www.tuxmachines.org/gallery/linuxxp/desktop
[22:32:49] <giacus> http://www.reactos.org/xhtml/en/
bad for bad .. :)
alex is working for they ?
look at Developers Quote section
just the similar name ..
1st was a joke from 2000.... tuxmzchines iIS a russian distro
[22:43:41] <dmessier> http://www.tuxmachines.org/gallery/linuxxp/gimp
i hope they get sued
a guy at work asked me about this today...
i knew NOTHING of it
seems like any BDI could pull this off.. with some tweakin'
[22:48:19] <dmessier> http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-xp/......
[22:51:07] <giacus> http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=linuxxp
yeah i seen that... in RU
my ru is rusty..
03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: Fixed typo and removed msgcat in tk_getFilexx processes.
* giacus discovered OpenCV :P
found the eye for the robot :))
[23:20:26] <Jymmm> http://www.craigslist.org/sby/zip/145696954.html
Jymmm your a nut
Not my ad
Nice SS box http://www.craigslist.org/sby/tls/145347118.html
si...500 canuck bucks you ship it
freight alone would take almsot that much
whats your point??
ok, send the $500 CAD, and I'll tell you
they ship arts for chevrolets to Oshawa daily for pennies a pc
Besides, I dont ship international anymore