* giacus back from a great concert :P
seen the coolest drummer of the world an hour ago :PP
who was playing?
do you know the best drummer of the world ? :D
* giacus uploading some photo :D
he's incredible from live
CIA-8, what kind of things can u do?
amr: see http://cia.navi.cx/
nice thing :)
sayd what happen
jepler, cool, thx
this man is not human :P
got luck, just 2 days in italy, this evening here, tomorrow in rome
3 hours aphex twin and 3kg beef later
relax now :)
im relaxed :)
youre exhausted im entusiasted
after I seen my prefered drummer playng for 3 hours :D
jojo mayer ?
I bought his first cd when I was 16 years old ..
giacus: talked about that combination a few hours ago to a friend :)
i know the man
I was tryng to learn to play
giacus: you need to listen to jojo maier
maybe its spelled otherwise
got a link ?
hes plays as tehcnicalperfect as billi cobham, but
faster the billy cobham 25 years ago
he really is a genius
i love billy cobham
and spectrum, you mentioned :) well, a masterpiese :)
giacus: he play drum and base.... but... dont let the category fool you.
i search moment
seen him live at vienna 1 year ago
[01:37:07] <cncuser> http://www.jojomayer.com/
no.. first time I see him
i dont like drum and base, its boring most of the time. the same durmloops and base tricks as 10 years ago. jojo mayer is really so much fun to hear and watch. hes a machine :) that reminds me of cobham.
usually rock drummers use it
sound: under construction :(
i ha a yamaha with paiste
but .. i must say
this evening I also eard a very goos percussionist
what was it ?
I just know bill
i allmost thought it was kind of drum festival :)
with ocbham and more
found o ticket:
Junior Jill - still drum and percussion
giacus: where you located ?
near to sicily island
I read him in a small hall
about 500 peoples
thats a luck !
in vienna it would rather be a 5000 people :(
tomorros he's in rome
i was 5 meters from him :P
also have some video ;P
[01:43:17] <giacus> http://www.allaboutjazz.com/italy/gallery/codazzi/galcoda1204_001.htm
here's Junior Jill - percussion
he did a spectacular solo of 15 min
giacus: pleas equery me
amr is now known as amr-ZZZzzzz
This isn't an emc question, but I know there are sometimes bright minds here.
I have a directed graph. There's some possibility that it contains cycles, but it should be rare.
I want to identify 'headish' items. A 'headish' item is one with no incoming edges, or in the case of a cycle, some member of the cycle that makes all the other members visible.
how do I do this efficiently?
what access do you have to it?
It's in adjacency list representation
IOW, can you randomly access nodes for this task, or do you have to follow the links
I've got a list of all nodes, and each node has a pointer to all its children
_a_ pointer to _all_ of its children?
or a list of ptrs
a list of pointers-to-children
no pointers to parents tho ;-)
is it practical to make parent->child pointers go both ways?
umm, yes, I think it would be
yes, it's trivial
so each node has a list of child pointers and a list of parent pointers
if list of parent pointers is empty, its pretty headish
(now to figure out cycles)
that's true; I can easily identify parent pointers
I can punt on cycles, because there are never meaningful cycles; it would only be pathological input that gave them
just follow parent pointers uphill and you will find a headish node
(this is message threading, like for e-mail or newsgroups)
in that case, follow parent pointers uphill and you will find _the_ head (if there is one)
there's no "the" head since there are many threads
so do you want to find the head of a specific thread?
I want to do a thread-sorting of a mailbox, similar to what mutt does
I can do that by a simple tree traversal method, but I have to identify the heads of threads to start traversing from
so pick one at random, follow parent pointers to the head of that thread, then work down from there, removing the nodes as you sort them
then pick another on from what are left, repeat
when none are left, everything is in a thread
anyone remember where that blasted gecko whitepaper document went?
I think this has me on the right track now.
the one that describes how geckos defeat mid-band resonance
hm .. there's something wrong with my method. When I read a 2027-message folder, I get a 2032-line thread as a result.
does it work correctly on smaller folders?
(ones that you can manually verify)
I'd build a folder with 5 messages in 2 threads and walk it thru that first
yeah that's not a bad idea
well it works fine on a test mailbox
* jepler gives up for the night
sourceforge CVS is down AGAIN.... dammit
didn't they start switching over the SVN?
[10:12:38] <fenn> http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-262-1
do you have any clue about designing a ejecor?
for injection molds?
you've got a pressure line and one vaccum line..
and one output..
pneumatic cylinder hits a carbide pin that pushes the part out ?
[11:22:49] <anonimasu> http://www.croll.com/_website/pr/vetheory.asp
ok totally different
like a steam injector, but in reverse
I am trying to find sensible ratios for one
you may wish to have a tapered insert in a cylindrical bore to make the throat easier to manufacture
beyond that, it's just rocket science :)
so trial & error right?
what are the relevant parameters you're optimizing?
size of the nozzle, and size of the input line
i dunno the drawings look all wrong
yeah, I figure a small nozzle..
it seems like the fluid nozzle should be in the venturi throat
to accelerate the fluid..
and a ventury throat..
oh whoops i was looking at it backwards
it should be before the venturi.
and the nozzle should protrude a bit into it..
sounds about right doesnt it
yeah i thought the red fluid was the atmospheric
the pressure differential depends on the diameter difference between the venturi throat and (what comes next)
on the right side of the drawings.. the size of the tube
I tried it before but without a venturi throat
it worked pretty ok..
not as good as I wanted it to..
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Cradek: saw that you moved testing - updated the gantry's computer last night. Painless. Ran the machine around in the air playing around with g61,g64 and g64pXXX. can't wait to cut. ;) The only thing was I was telling my father that the blending would show as a differnt color. You must have taken that out ;).
thanks - yes I did take it out contrary to the advice of several people, since I considered it just a debugging tool...
It might be nice to leave it as an option, but that would involve reading it from the ini file, which I think is more trouble than it's worth...
no problem - just threw me for a second. ;)
I like the ini option
it doesn't get a whole lot worse than that
I can't find whatever log they're talking about.
it was there on my install
I'm guessing /var/log/base-config* but I don't see my password in it
yah that's the one
(and the next line is the password I used at install-time)
* fenn wonders if it will ever stop raining
we got the tiniest bit of snow this morning and now the sky is almost clear
fenn: cant raining forever :P
yeah it probably can
* fenn has water running through his room
yestarday evening I did 50 km with my cousin to go to see Billy Cobham concert, we came back at 1:00, for the mountain road, no one car encountered. There was a snow storm and strong wind ..
dunno ohw we reached the house :D
but.. was funny :P
about 15 cm of snow in few hours
on the road
skunkworks: is it your machine that has a different Z maxvel/maxaccel?
Cradek - I think it is 5 vs 12
and 50ipm vs 200
great, a lot of testing and work was done for blending with different axis vels/accels
It is working great.
giacus_ is now known as giacus
i installed the ubuntu linux and emc2....now i started to read the HAL manual...
i tried the command /bin/hal_parport 0278 but i get an error message: Nos such directory
why is that...i did what the manual says
may depend on the dir youre
so in which directory is hould be?
it is not told in manual
i'm not sure, but take a look under emc2 dir
try just hal_parport 0278
command not found
that command is probably way old and doesn't exist anymore
so where can i read about new hal configuration technique
sorry i was wrong.. hal_parport is still there
I've got 60% of the Z done tonight :)
fenn: where ?
* anonimasu is targeting getting Z and X done this week
then wiring the plc the weekend..
* fenn waits for slow machine to stop thrashing
what kind of machine
you know when a computer sits ther and goes "tick tick tick"
fogl: I cant find that command too
i installed the ubintu and emc like described at http://timeguy.com/cradek/emc/ubuntu
tried the wiki ?
sorry i'm not much help right now
I think the command is another
fenn: btw, what you what to do ?
to change the parport adrees, if you use stepper, try to look at configs/stepper/standard_pinout.hal
under emc2 dir
I've: loadrt hal_parport cfg="0xb800"
for my parport
something's borked on my install.. there's no /usr/rtlib
loadrt could be used by halcmd command
not sure .. try it
but if you try manually load everithing should be hard
for the right sequence
I'd use the config files
giacus...i am just learning about hal...i dont want to change anything (yet). There is no configs directory on hd.
try man halcmd too
you'll find loadrt there
but the doc youre looking could not be updated to the emc2 vers. youre using :(
there are sample configs on ubuntu - those need to be coppied to your home directory. (so you can play with them)
I don't remember where they are. Let me look
fogl: for what I know halcmd is all ..
do you have it there ?
latest updated man should help
i have man halcmd
it load/unload modules too
If I remember well it load an RT module for the parport at the specified adress
the config files I saw are probably what halcmd read and execute
so I suppose learning how halcmd work should allow 100% manual control of system
giacus is now known as giacus_afk
hi Jymmm hi alex_joni
i have a problem with halcmd - every command i use weturns an error message: could not open shared memory, rtapi init failed, hal_init() failed, 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded
is emc running?
is realtime running?
how do i run it?
if realtime is not running, halcmd has nothing to talk to
let's back up for a minute
what are you trying to do? I just got here.
i am a total begginer...i just want to get familiar with all this
what kind of machinery do you want to run with emc?
the goal is to run the cnc machine :)
i would like to run 4 axix machine
4 linear axis for foam cutting with hot wire
is it a mill with a rotary table?
there won't be a sample configuration that fits that exactly, but there is a four axis config that we should modify.
have you run one of the sample configurations that are installed?
yes...and it works
so i should just edit these samples?
the next thing to do is copy a sample configuration to your home directory so you can modify it.
do you know how to make a directory and copy files etc?
in your home directory create the two directories emc2/configs
into that, copy the stepper-xyza configuration
so you will have ~/emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/inch.ini and other files in there too
also, you can rename it by using a different directory name for your copy, instead of stepper-xyza
ok...this wont be a problem
ok when you have that done, emc will show that configuration on the list when you start it.
let me know when that's done and we'll start modifying it
i did copy that, but when i run emc2 it shows only the emc2/stepper-samples directory, not /emc2/configs i have created
you made emc2/configs in your home directory, right?
no...sorry...in emc2 directory....wil do it again...
sorry, I should have been more clear
you should do this without using any root/sudo powers
the new configuration will be owned by you
i am using root
don't, it will only lead to heartache
i will log as user
* alex_joni is dead ;) .. almost
13+ hour day
alex_joni: don't work so hard!
think I had about 15 minutes brake today
a chinese people work 32 hours at day
alex_joni: have a drink and relax!
alex_joni: its a scale
peoples in china work 24 h/day
in romania 13 h/day
jepler: had to finisht the booth today ,)
in us 8 h7day
exhibition starts tomorrow
here 0 h /day :/
I no work!
see you tomorrow
check your mailbox and let me work please..
giacus...wait a litle please
i have created that directory now....bu i when i run emc2 it still open the etc/emc2/sample-settigs directory
if you have made it correctly, it will show both directories
starting in my home directory, I have emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/ and that has several files in it, including inch.ini
giacus io parto venerdi per locri
i have /home/username/em2/configs/etc.
i have /home/username/emc2/configs/etc.
i copy them to /home/emc2/configs/etc.
let's walk through it
should i copy them to /home/emc2/configs/etc.
what's your username?
ok so you're logged in as klemen now?
do you copy files using the gui, or using the command line?
ok open up a new terminal window
... you will be in your home directory
type these two commands: mkdir -p emc2/configs
than i did it right
cp -R /etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper-xyza emc2/configs
now run emc
you should see two directories in the tree - the top line is /home/klemen/emc2/configs/
under there you should have stepper-xyza
no...i still se the /etc/emc2/sample..
that will be there too, but under your directory
but you see just that?
something must be wrong with the directory structure, because I did exactly that here... let's start again
hit cancel to exit emc
if i go to the directory i have created and type pwd
it shows /home/klemen/emc2/configs
ok what's in that directory?
ok this is the problem
you need to make another directory level named for your configuration
those files should be in it.
this allows you to have more than one custom configuration.
so from where you are: mkdir wire; mv * wire
(or whatever you want to call it)
in i shoild make this dir in /home/klemen/emc2/configs
we are creating a config called "wire" (or whatever)
i have created it now
you can have several configs in your personal config directory.
ok give it another go
still the same
should i conpy these files in wire directory
you should move them in there.
like I said earlier: you need to make another directory level named for your configuration. those files should be in it.
and than it should work
it works now
now we can go on to modifying that configuration.
it's already set up for four axes, so you should be able to modify just the inch.ini file
do you prefer to work in inches or mm?
ok, let's grab a different ini file then, get /etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper/stepper_mm.ini, and put it in your wire directory
i did that
ok let's edit your new ini
should i erase the inch file?
leave it for now - you will see both on the startup screen
you may want to refer to it, since it has 4 axes instead of 3
we're going to change the mm ini now for 4 axes
what kind of motors are you running? steppers? (I should have asked)
is the interface step/direction on the parallel port?
you'll be running in no time then
ok editing the mm ini:
find the line that says HALFILE=core_stepper.hal
change it to say HALFILE=stepper_xyza.hal
i did that
now find the [TRAJ] section
change AXES to 4
change COORDINATES to X Y Z A
now go down a ways and find the [AXIS_2] section
copy the whole section to make a new one named [AXIS_3]
ok, did that
ok I'm catching up here doing the same things
ok, let's test what we've done so far - save the ini and start up emc
I get tkemc (the blue window) with XYZA all showing
the emc doesnt start
you mean after you select your config from the first screen?
ok let's start it at the shell so we can see the error
at the commandline just run emc
it works now
did you fix something?
have you used emc before at all?
no...but i was trying to configure emc1
ok, then you should know there are several user interfaces to choose from - you can choose any one you want
yes...i know that
with your four axis setup, none are going to draw a good preview plot since they assume XYZ all orthogonal
so if i want to configure hal
i can configure it inhere
scripts hal config
I'm not sure how well that saves (rewrites the halfiles) yet
so you may want to use halconfig for experimentation, but then write the changes into the halfiles yourself
but you are going to have VERY little hal to configure
might be better to use XYAB so at least it backplots somewhat correctly
do you have limit or home switches?
giacus vengo venerdi sera
will have...the hardware is not complited yet
as it runs now, it is configured for no switches
so you can actually run as-is already.
you will want to set your INPUT_SCALE on each of the axes to the number of steps required to move 1 mm
ok...i know this
i read the mandbook
so all i have to edit is ini and hal?
only ini, unless you add hardware (switches)
ok...thank you very much!
come right back if you have any troubles
sure...when i finish the hardware
so.. wasn't pickconfig or whatever it's called now supposed to copy the config files somewhere?
fenn: we decided copying files is a job best done by the usual system tools
fenn: that decision may or may not come back to haunt us
if emc only looks in /etc/emc2/sample-configs and ~/emc2/whatever then you might as well just copy it to ~/emc2/
lord knows my home directory is cluttered with hundreds of directories starting with . already
I thought that too, but there are a lot of problems I didn't think of at first - for instance if the user already has some things in ~/emc2
how bout it copies it to /etc/emc2/configs/
don't really want to require root OR world-writable directories (/usr/local/etc/emc2/configs) so that pretty much leaves the home directory
by default it will also look in /usr/local/etc/emc2/configs, so a sysadmin can set that up, with an emc group, or whatever permissions are appropriate
i hate thinking about permissions
these are policy decisions, and I'd rather be programming
all I can says is it's not at all clear the best way to handle configs.
my sentences are also not at all clear
on a related note - where does halcmd get its modules from?
it looks in /usr/rtlib and complains that xxx module is not found
(/usr/rtlib doesn't exist of course)
the environment, I think
that should probably be compiled in like some other things are.
giacus_afk is now known as giacus
Jymmm is now known as Jymmmmmm
Jymmmmmm is now known as Jymmm
Jymmm: wich leadscrew you have on your machine ?
what diameter ?
acme on Z, ballscrew on XY
1/2" acme, 5/8" ball (iirc)
i'm thinking what to buy .. if 5 or 10 mm/turn
20 mm diameter
les sayd 10 mm/turn should be very fast
but good for wood and plastic works
for wood/metal 5 mm should be better
the machine should ran at 10 mt/min !
and .. wonders if is good for woodworking
I have to decide
acme is 10 TPI, ballscrew is 5 TPI on 2:1 pulleys
LArge pulley on screw, small pulley on motor
that's what I have anyway.
yours is moving gantry machine if I remember..
[21:22:33] <giacus> http://giacus.altervista.org/emc/newmachine.html
what i'm forgetting
cant remember if 0.5 is the torque
jymmm - do you have pictures - are you running 2 screws for the main axis? or one in the middle?
one screw per axis... k2cnc.com for pics
I forgot encoders..
jymmm: - So you have a comercial product - or are you part of the business?
Did you buy it or is that your business.
boy I am not making much sense today.
do you think this motor can be driver by gecko 340 ? http://products.danahermotion.com/danaher/modelDetail.asp?Rnd=706&User=ServoMotors&PkgID=421966
maybe not for the peak stall current right ?
it has Peak Stall Current A RMS/:22.48
what mean ? :(
how much ampere
it is also Conventional Brushless Servomotor
* giacus wonder if can be drived by gecko
anonimasu: can't ?
unless gecko started doing AC drives
I cant understand the difference between DC permanent magnet brush-type motors and Brushless motors :(
the difference is how you drive them
not in the motor ?
the design is a bit different too
Jymm has changed the topic to: "Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home: linuxcnc.org | Regular Developers' meetings Sundays 14:00-18:00 GMT | wiki up @ http://wiki.linuxcnc.org
| EMC usage map: http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller
|| Jymmm's bday - send tooling
giacus: a brushless motor is more like a stepper with 3 steps and you do a whole lot of microstepping
mmm understood , ty
but, permanent dc motors and dc permanent magnet brush-type motors shoule be the same thing right ?
or not ?
yes they are the same thing
"brushless DC" is a bad name
I was confused about brushless and bush-type terms
they mean different things
should be on the road but had to wait
I didn't want to drive in that nasty weather in the midwest
finally...bought a car.
what car ?
a lexus gs 300
they are very quiet and smooth
good for long travel
I am trying to figure out all the gadgets on it
I pushed the wrong button on the key and the winows rolled down, the moon roof opened, and the alarm went off.
i'm tryng to check and re-check the plan we did time ago
yes for the high performance cnc
time ago we talked about dc motors to use
I remember something like 'KU' motors serie
I'm looking at danaher database
right, well brush dc motors are economical and have very good performance
brushless is fine too
wich serie ?
but.. bushless are not geckos compatible, right ?
oh anything that has the right numbers
I already bought G. 340
inertia, torque, rpm
ok....so something about 75 volt
yeah, I found something
not sue about max peak current geckos can work
20 amp I think
I think they are rated at 80v 20 amp
it is not specified if are peaks 20 A
yeah, about 10 or 12 continuous I think
that's still about 1kw
bad then :(
well the peak torque is just used for accel
At constant speed the current will be low
2 or 3 amps
there's no way to damage the driver I hope..
hm, nope they should be current limited to 20 amps
overheating wont kill them either
I am SURE of it.
been there done that..
they just turn off and you fry your hands when touching them
I don't know....I have heard geckos are a little fragile, but I have never used them so I don't really know
they arent fragile.. really
I run copleys with heat sinks and fan cooling
I ran my geckos without heatsinks or fan before..
they just turned off when they got too hot
nothing else happened
I dont know why, they turned off but that's all that happened
they started working again after cooling
I bolted them to a alu plate and now I can run them for hours..
first thing once the cnc gets done is to machine heatsinks
for what I seen a cpu cooler should be ok too for geckos
Hey I got a call from ITW (where I am going) and they said leave room for several ocilloscopes
should be plenty
They are being replaced in the lab and I get all the old ones...free
for bringing back home?
the are 90's vintage tek digital scopes
forget the number
anyway, i'll take em
I'll be up there on the weekend too....perhaps do some flying. One of my friends there said I can borrow his plane.
I miss big city nightclubs.
* anonimasu hugs the dso
bet I could pick up chicks with the new car haha
wait...I forgot...it's an old man car.
if it were one of thoose cab ones ;)
hm I wish geckodrive would release a AC driver
let me ask you....here is one the same color...is this old man car?
[23:43:03] <les_w> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/60728A-03-Lexus-GS-300-SPORT-6-CD-Side-AirBags_W0QQitemZ4620891467QQcategoryZ6299QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
maybe you can pick up old chicks.
I had a scare in the bmw.
I was showing it to someone that might want to buy it
We went for a drive and I decided to floor it just for a second or two
throttle stuck wid open
that means you're not flooring it often enough.
that part of the pedal travel is getting creaky.
the new car is drive by wire. The gas pedal is hooked to junt an encoder.
so what stuck? the actual pedal pivot?
I had put a lot of lps rust preventative on the throttle spring
it had hardened up some I guess
It might be something else...i'll have to check it when I get back
I'm gonna spend some time at northwestern university while up there
they have a pretty good engineering library
technical paper reprints cost a lot of money on the internet.
take a lot of change for the xeros.
you just buy a plastic card
they have tecnical publications back to 1870 or something
finishing systems (binks/devilbiss) will come over from ohio too
I'm a little excited over this stuff because we will talk some of a manufacturing facility for the latest invention
I'll hire all of you guys heheh.