logger_aj: yes, you already said that
I'm logging. I don't understand 'yes, you already said that', ValarQ. Try /msg logger_aj help
that is funny
ValarQ: logger_aj isn't a person.
it is one of alex's alter AI egos. ;)
why does she have to admit that she loggs every time?
I guess it is nice to know that it is working. I miss it when it isn't logging.
ValarQ: how did you know it's a she?
alex_joni: i don't
no way it's a she.. it's too quiet for that
never seen a she that only listens :D
well, to be a logbot it says pretty much
I'm logging. I don't understand 'shush', alex_joni. Try /msg logger_aj help
* alex_joni goes home..
welcome back alex :)
I know this isn't exactly an emc question, but has anybody made a serial or spi-type interface in a HAL module? I figure 19.2k or at least 9600 baud should be within the reach of a system that can run steppers.
gee this sounds familiar
fenn: it does?
did I ask this before?
no.. we were talking about it the other day on #robotics
using rs232 as a bus with multiple motor controller chips on it
anyway, go on
rifraf has been making stepper controller boards for a pan/tilt motion-tracker webcam
so i said, if you add another motor you could use it as a cheap cnc stepper driver
oh -- what I have in mind is not to have HAL talk to the computer's rs232 serial port. I meant, be able to do ttl-level serial over any available digital I/O through hal
K4ts come back to naples :(���
jepler: i'm pretty sure you'd have to write a special parallel port driver for that
since there's no hal "shift registers" or byte-splitters or anything
but that'd be extra silly anyway
or maybe not.. hmm
you'd have to set PERIOD to the baud rate right?
or some multiple of it
2x the baud rate
jepler: you could probably snag some of the code from here: http://hubbard.engr.scu.edu/avr/avrlib/docs/html/uartsw2_8c.html
just execute the interrupt code each cycle
fenn: It's true, the bit lengths would be crummy unless PERIOD was a multiple of the bit rate.
and for something like spi, which has a clock signal, it doesn't matter s omuch
i should ordered some db9 connectors.. oh well
there's always something I "should have ordered", when it comes to parts.
I wish there was somewhere local to buy electronics parts, without paying $6+ for shipping and waiting a week...
there's actually a decent electronics store here, they're pretty pricey though
we don't have "fry's" around here .. just a few radio shacks, mostly filled with crappy consumer electronics
what is the electronics store you're referring to?
stansifer electronics.. it's got aisles and aisles of chips and connectors and tools
family owned i think
same here, there's noplace good.
hmm there's gotta be one in a city that size
jepler: how come kicad isn't more popular?
it would be equal or better than eagle if it had a better part library
not that I've found.
there's Ra-elco, which is pretty much a giant junk bin.
they have stuff, if you can find it. (big if)
no, but it's old and disorganized.
there are stores in akihabara in tokyo that are literally full of bins of junk
and the guy who works the counter is a clone of Comic Book Guy from the simpsons
* bill2or3 thinks about rails.
slap something together before you lose interest
heh, you say that like you've known me all my life.
i'm very familiar with incomplete projects, let's say
right now the plan is 2 V-wheels holding a round bar.
I'm waiting on a boring-head so I can make the mounts for the bar.
how big is the bar?
I have the bearings and such.
just a hair under an inch, stainless steel.
and is this a permanent thing or the real deal?
should be plenty stiff.
permanent until I find something better..
it's never stiff enough
well, should be reasonably stiff.
if I can get the mounting right.
and make 12 V-wheels exactly the same.
why do they have to be the same?
they should be adjustable with a cam
or even just a screw that pushes against the axle
well, close enough to the same that the table doesnt sit at a 45deg angle.
I'll make the wheel-axles adjustable with little set screws.
like the ones that hold the gibs on my lathe.
well.. if it's designed kinematically, you can just plane the table off and not worry so much about getting the wheels the same
think about which wheel should be adjustable etc
I'd assume all of them, except one.
or just all of them.
* bill2or3 looks up definition of "kinematically"
[18:10:55] <bill2or3> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7578456911
looks good, if only they were longer.
nice size for a small z axis
I actually bought a complete Z-axis salvaged from a real machine.
so that's taken care of.
sorry bill, that probably didnt make sense
kinematic design is using only the minimum number of constraints in a moving part
so for a linear slide, you'd have 5 points of contact between the slide and the way
constraints=contact points ?
5 per truck, or 5 per rail?
5 per axis
trucks arent kinematic
for both rails?
yeah for both rails
I'm thinking of something like "leading 2" from this page: http://engraving.majosoft.com/html/body_self_made_parts.html
only with wheels on each side (top&bottom)of the bar.
yeah that looks good
* bill2or3 thinks about 5 points.
that's like one v-wheel per corner, and a 5th that holds it all down somehow?
each V-wheel would be 2 contact points
so that's 8 right off the top.
yeah you end up doing a triangle-shaped base
* bill2or3 is totally confused.
les_w had a design that used a linear rail and a cam follower
by base you mean the rail it rides on?
our big mill has recurculating needle bearings the axis's
I've seen diagrams of the linear slides that recirculate bearings, pretty slick.
the 5 contact points are arranged in a squished pyramid
it's not clicking, is there a diagram anywhere I can look at?
kinematic design is not the best thing for machine tools
hang on i'm trying to remember the name of the guy i met at cnc workshop who had a good page on it
that didn't work
I give up ;) the bottom o is supposed to be between the upper two - like that?
the line is the rail
ok i found it in my pda :P http://volnaengineering.com/main.htm
and the idea behind using less contact points is that there's less places for inaccuracies to enter the system?
it's totally predictable
is rough, because you have to adjust the center wheel all the time.
and if things are not aligned properly it's well, fscked.
what? that's the whole point
you dont have to align anything
bill sorry that page kinda sucked.. it was better with him there explaining everything
fenn: That was the design on my original router... it does not work well, that's why they switched it out for hiwin at no charge.
Jymmm: what were the rollers shaped like?
fenn, that's cool, it gives me some phrases to google for.
[18:41:11] <Jymmm> http://www.track-roller-bearings.com/guide_wheels.htm
i gotta go, but i think that rods floating in air aren't stiff enough for much anything
gotta bolt em to a solid bed every couple inches
lots of snow around here
no snow here, but it's pretty chilly.
though yesterday was goregous.
64 and sunny here
tornado warnings north of here
it's wintertime over here.. -5 or so (�C) and it snows since this morning
I even went home and got a scooter running last night, I was going to ride to work today.
Drove the TT today. Boy I love driving that thing.
I'd be taking a long lunch at the golf course if it wasn't so windy.
it's a neat car
les - makes it challenging ;)
Got a call from a second turkey call maker.
tiny order though. 1000 pc.
is it up and running?
actually for this I would not use the cnc
but no it's not running. It's about ready, but I have too much engineering work
1000 by hand?
* chinamill is away: _
in this case he wants juts semi finished ones. Just a hockey puck with beveled sides and a hole in the middle
rosette cutter on bridgeport.
cnc only gets cheaper at about the 10,000 pc level
heck 1000 pcs would only be a day.
So i'll still put my guy in the picture frame business
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
We'll give that a try
walnut with inlayed old barn wood
I'll be busy with engineering though
we might do a celtic spiral carved frame with the cnc
but at 100 an hour to run the machine
it would have to be fast
let's see if it could do 60 feet an hour.....
wholesale at $8/ft....
so cnc time about half that....
that would work
with plenty of fudge factor
you'd engrage them still on plank-of-wood form, and cut them out after?
perhaps rip them, mould them, then fill up the cnc table...then off to finish
but v carving is pretty fast
I just want the woodworking section to make some money...the machine spindles are not turning.
And since I am booked up with engineering, It has to be something my guys can do.
les_w they could just fuck off eating doughnuts and drinking coffee.
except you can buy jelly doughnuts too
actually I have my woodworking guy working on the golf course part time
but that is not making a profit
I want to get him running machines
I am gonna call about getting a flu shot and some tamiflu
[19:31:49] <bill2or3> http://cgi.ebay.com/Linear-Slide-Super-Pillow-Block-Thomson-industries-THK_W0QQitemZ7595132927QQcategoryZ78196QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
my client in chicago just had influenza a
any guesses on what sort of tolerances that'd have?
If I got that traveling...
[19:32:57] <Jymmm> http://www.americanbamboo.org/images/BambooBicycle.jpg
bill, yeah I have used that a lot.
les, good enough for a X-axis table?
It will typically have a thousandth or so slop
that's probablly a lot better than any thing I make would have.
it takes the shape of whatever you bolt it to
so straightness depends onthat
yeah it would work
linear profile rail would work a ton better
but it is $100/meter and $56 per carriage
for 20mm preloaded
yeah, I'm making lots of compromi$es
65 bucks for that.....
it would be $300 for profile rail and blocks
$65 < $300
bamboo is really strong...I made a hang glider frame out of it
* bill2or3 buys.
wanna see a sexy pic ?
[19:46:57] <giacus> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/tuxmylove.jpg
got a new hd ! 120 gb :D installing etch
got PS ?
next step will be servos !
I ordered a PS yesterday. I allready have steppers.
no servos for me.
I know, that why I sayd 'next step' :P
what you bought ?
6 A ps ?
I'm suffering to find motors I need here around
but maybe I found something in torino
Dahaner italia :)
I'm asking for quotes
lets see ..
I'm bored to use stepper :(
* bill2or3 goes for lunch.
* giacus almost ready fro breakfast :/
[12:03:26] * giacus almost ready fro breakfast :/
we cannot stop the time
Yes we can.
* giacus sigh
what servo card are you thinking of using?
drivers are geckos
motors are the best I can find
very low inertia
[Global Notice] Hi all. Well, this is something of a milestone. It's not official tonight, but maybe we'll hit the number officially tomorrow. Nonetheless, the high water mark for freenode is now 30000 users. Congratulate us. :)
direct drive, no pinion , gears, etc
what I want is a very fast machine
speaking of servos, I bought a pair of small servos to hook up to my etch-a-sketch. But I'm having trouble figuring out from the datasheet how hard I can drive them.
jepler: surplus ?
The datasheet says they're 6 watt, 24V nominal voltage, 41.5 ohm terminal resistance.
41.5 ohms is pretty high
but but (24V)^2 / 41.5 ohms is about 14W
yep - and that's the power dissipated (wasted) as heat
not the output power
what does "6 W" mean?
it should be the output power, but who knows
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If I have 14W of power going in, and I get 6W of output power, doesn't that mean it turns only (14-6)=8W into heat?
hmm - maybe
the back EMF would be proportional to the output power, and the remainder would be heat
the easiest thing for me to do will be to run it off a 12V wall-wart (the currents are small, less than 400mA) with PWM so I think I'll be under 6W in any case
is there a current spec, or was that 400 mA calculated from the voltage/resistance specs?
the "less than 400" I calculated by 12V/41.5 ohm
hm, there is a current spec. "Max. continuous current 244mA"
is there a rated no-load speed?
3980 RPM (before the 6:1 gearhead)
It's this motor (937 winding): http://www.maxonmotorusa.com/files/catalog/2003/pdf/03_093_e.pdf
ok. there's a way of calculating the torque and voltage constants from all this info, but I don't know it offhand (there's pi in there somewhere, I'm sure)
with encoder and 6:1 gearhead.
hmmm. max power output at nominal voltage: 3230 mW
anyone have some guidance on how pid in emc1 and emc2 relate
should be the same algorithm, I think
though the units are probably different
probably different ;)
emc2 uses "user units" throughout - they're only converted to machine units at the driver (or stepgen) level
I'm having trouble staying out of estop...from following error....have tried P's from 10 to 400
tried 1 or 2
ok. did you get the scaling thing fixed?
If you're using steppers, do you have the "headroom" for accel and velocity as mentioned in the example ini files?
yes, kinda...0.001 works
jepler...stg on mazak
hmmm. you could try to cvs up, jmk fixed the scaling thing last night
dave-e: forget it then
real pain at this point....no internet to shop
oh...in the ini is a max output....set to 1.0...is that volts or a scale factor?
depends on where it goes in HAL
I assume it is related to pid...it is in that section
my amps are set so 10 v = max velo
I don't see the max_output setting being used in the .hal files
but it would be in user units, not volts.
the driver would then convert for you (using the scale factors)
I suppose I could set it to 5 or 10 and see what happens....the dacs will only put out so much
max output won't change anything, since it's not used in the hal files
that's one somewhat confusing thing about emc2 - there are settings in the ini file, but they're not really used from there (the axisn ones anyway)
those settings are connected to various HAL parameters in the hal files (core_servo, stg_io and stg_motion, in your case)
guess I'll go back a play awhile...
do you get following errors when you command slow moves?
(<10% of the max vel)
ok, and you know that feedback is correct
turn the screw one time, and get 10mm on the display
well I wonder but I've tried both ways...
encoders are correct...for scale and sign
axis moves pos with pos dac voltage
ok. how far does it go before you get an error?
even with the following error set to 10 and 30
did you set it up for mm, or convert to inch?
err - leave it set up for mm, or convert ....
left it in mm for now ...didn't want to change everything as once
once I get predictable motin then I can change
one thing to look at is (as jepler mentioned) the PID headroom. I don't see anything in the stg files for this
guess I'd better go tackle it....
be back later
anyone know anything about vacuum pumps?
Jymmm: yeah, they suck :)
I presume you mean for vacuum hold-down / clamping?
plastic mold making, to suck around a die
I suspect an ordinary domestic cleaner would work
as the cycle time is short
they typically suck down to around 700mb
so .. 5psi ...
piston pumps tend to be slow, but develop high vacuum, need some sort of resevoir to suck down fats
rotary pumps are better, but F espensive
a domestic cleaner might just be enough, and certainly cheap!
Well, I was gonna use a chop vac to remove the mass volume, then a vacuum pump to pull in the detail.
valves are cheaper than pumps =)
just put a resevoir on the vac pump?? old heating gas cylinder
still takes time, and the plastic aint gonna wait that long before cooling
propane cylinders are natures way of giving high quality pressure vessels to the poor engineers :)
lol, no doubt.
so long as the cylinder is bigger than your mold by a good factor, it should suck down hard and FAST
but I have a 4hp shopvac that would give the best hooker a run for her money.
I killed mine trying to do vacuum clamping eith it :)
hey robin, jymmm
sigh .. banned from #debian for tellling a joke :)
was out at cousins woodlot
robin_sz I was thinking a vacuum switch that cut off the shopvac once it got to a certain level and let the vacuum pump take over.
had to trade that 4 foot diameter oak log
possibly, but the vac pump alone will be sloooooow
Well cut some wanut for me for exchange
les_w, 4 foot!
at least ....
oh I counted the rings
robin_sz: That's why I was thinking the best of both worlds.... shopvac to remove the mass volume, then then the vacuum pump to pull in the detail.
les_w did you keep any of it?
personally, I think the plastic will cool before the vac pump can do anyting
I traded it for some walnut logs
les_w all of it?
several 18-24" diam walnut logs
we'll saw em on the woodmizer.
Jymmm: if it was me, id let the vac pump suck a cylinder down hard as a resevoir, then use that to do the foring hard and fast.
anyway ... that or buy a Reischle pump :)
I dont think I could afford that much vacpump, even with resevoir
ITW has a thermoforming division
they use some kind of 2 stage thing
* robin_sz is now confused
also, big vacuum tanks work....
use old propane bottles
les_w thats what robin just said
hey robin_sz !
robin_sz: my cousin is tartint to build a plasma cnc
giacus: no chance of changing his mind?
i wouldn't mind one meself
he decided to use stepper !
nasty horrible dirty things ...
steppers are a good choice
you forgot maybe
yes, stepper for a plasma cutter
I show him the photo of your plasma machine
HEY! This will be perfect for thermoforming!!! http://search.ebay.com/5668699764
which slides are you using ?
on a plasma machine?
* robin_sz screams
what are ?
use IGUS rail
plastic on aluminium anodize
NOT normal linear rail ...
it dies very quickly.
robin_sz: do ou have any link to learn more about it ?
* robin_sz is guessing
I checking ..
[23:38:24] <robin_sz> http://www.igus.com/show_dt.asp
his plasma is 2kw
about 4 cm depth cut
2kw is TINY plasma
4mm more like!
he cant cut 4 cm
not with 2kw he cant
he sayd so
he is mistaken then about the power
here is standard calc:
I dno't know the right term
[23:40:53] <jepler> http://pottery-glass.search.ebay.com/bowel_Pottery-Glass_W0QQcatrefZC2QQfmcZ1QQfromZR10QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQfstypeZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZ870
plasma runs around 120V ok?
its 'troncatrice plasma' 2 Kw
maybe is 380 V
we have 220 V and 380
well, not like any plasma I have ever seen then ...
(including my favorite item, "PINK DEPRESSION BOWEL
but I know he use more of 380 V
NO CHIPS OR SCRATCHES !
a 20A plasma would run around 120V, a 100amp one touches 160V ...
let me translate gruppo elettrogeno
100Amps will pierce 15mm, and cut (just) 30mm
he use a 'gruppo elettrogeno'
50 amps does half that
up to 380 V
heh - a punch bowel set, or a wooden sald bowel set - decisions decisions
for what I know ..
1 100amp plasma is about 15kw ...
OK, I agree with you
how much thickness he can cut ?
I can say you later..
he sayd 4 cm
[23:45:13] <robin_sz> http://www.innerlogic-inc.com/files/SR-100i%20With%20Ohmic%20Cutting%20Charts.pdf
I know you wanted a vacuum pump, but... http://search.ebay.com/5671968722
giacus: that sis a typical 100 amp plasma ... 160V, 100 amps, cuts 32mm, 16Kw .. if you friend can cut 40mm with 2Kw then he will be a millionaire very soon with his invention that is 5 times more effective than the current technology
robin_sz: thats would be great
Jymmm: too small ;)
I'm not sure
robin_sz: Then why did you bid on it (you're near Kent aren't ya?)
what I know is he nedd more then 3.5 kw
damn, any vacuum pump on ebay is $$$
Jymmm: just buy it .. you kow you want to.
Jymmm: and no im not even near kent
how much you gotta pull??
robin_sz: btw he's working on a plain
Jymmm: and anyway kent is where the SELLER is ..
I want to show you it after he will finish it
you van vaccum bag with a good shop vac... ; )
dmessier: how are the chickens there ?
dmessier: going to use a shopvac for remove the mass volume, then a vacuum pump to pull in the detail.
I'd like to see robin_sz in rome, speak italian ]:))
robin_sz: do you accept ?
i know sign languge ... so im ok in french/spanish and especially italian..
dmessier: where you from ?
I was thinking francia
we're the largest contry in the world you know..??
Canada is #2
Canada is #1
but 30 % popoulated
* robin_sz can believe that
huge when you think of it ...
* Jymmm is thinking China
from mexico right to the pole
russia / ussr was... now just a bunch of 'stans
canada isnt a real country is it? I thought it was a state?
we have 90 % of our population living in 10 % of our real estate...
[23:57:02] <SWPadnos> http://geography.about.com/od/countryinformation/a/bigcountries.htm
FACK OFF ROBOI
oh, wait, George Dubya hasnt annexed it yet .. thats next year
that's Russia, *not* the USSR
apt-get update !
not believing... SORRY
funny how cannoks always get upset when you pretend they are part of the USA.
the US is also #3 in population, behind China and India
apt-get install ntpdate :d
if ALL the chinese decide to JUMP at the same time... the planet wobbles... i've modeled it..
and for more relevant information: http://www.aneki.com/beautiful.html
there's enough space on mars