lerman_ is now known as lerman
03swpadnos * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/tp.c:
Fix TP misblend problems with g0 reversals by reinstating parts of the old TP.
This makes 3D_chips run correctly for me using the default stepper_inch configuration.
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
lerman_ is now known as lerman
is servo-to-go the only servo controller supported by emc?
orpheus: no, there are quite a few
motenc, univpwm, m5i20, etc
but usually at this time of day it's pretty quiet in here
ah, so i've seen now
most folks from the US in here
where are you from?
yes, it is 3:08
it's 10:13 over here
i got a mill, and all i have to do now is convert it, somehow i wasted 3 hours sifting through ebay auctions
i have no steppers, no drivers, and no magic control boxes, so it's kinda like, ...what do I wanna get?
closed-loop servo? stepper motors? what kind of pc interface?
how much do you want to invest?
thus i'm looking at ebay to get a feel f what's out there
close-loop servo is best (but expensive)
steppers is good (cheaper)
i was hoping $200-300
ok, foget about servos then
you get about 1 axis for that money (if you are lucky)
so i've noticed
so a 3 axis mill is about 1500$ at least (servo card, servos, motors, encoders, cables, etc.)
it's a desktop mill, so do i really need closed-loop steppers?
steppers then, but I'm more a servo guy, so I can't really help you on that
you can get away with open-loop steppers on ANY machine, given configured ok
t's just when things go wrong...
so is my usderstanding correct in that you can wire a stepper driver straight to a parallel port?
1200 oz/inch... wow... tat would take your arm off
orpheus: yes, and yes
yep, time to go to bed,
orpheus: "straight to the parallel port" is a bit of a simplification. I know firsthand that this board works well to drive stepper motors from step+direction signals, though: http://www.pminmo.com/l297-8/l297-8.htm
orpheus: parallel port -> breakout board -> one of these boards per axis
I noted the list posts about TP errors in "3dchips"
was checking the math...seems ok
however it would be normal in a trapeziodal blend to not actually reach a waypoint
this would be magnified in a single axis reversal
there was hard code to go exact stop in trajectory angles greater than 90 degrees though
we may have disabled that bit
the large accel error is more disturbing
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
les - it looks like reinstating some code that wad #ifdef'd out fixed the TP issues in 3D_Chips
I guess I found something :)
that's nice to know I guess
I'm just not sure why the code was removed in the first place
because it made the typical misblends less bad
I mean, removing it did
so it improves typical misblends but screws up atypical ones
yeah, paul removed that and les saw better results, but nobody understood it.
well all the blends are always wrong.
even colinear (g1x1 g1x2 g1x3)
well - I'll look at it a bit more today, once I've had coffee
I'll be back later
going home now..
sorry was away
yeah #ifdef ing that code out made a dramatic difference
I figured it might cause problems also
but the net effect was very good
with it in horrible misblending occurs at almost every point
I'm trying to trace through it to see exactly what it does, but it hasn't sunk in yet
Now, it was put in to fix something....but it was in error
so removing it got rid of the error
but I guess there is still something to fix
yeah, because putting it back fixed seomthing else ;)
with that bit in it's so bad it will tear a high speed machine apart
maybe we know what to do at fest now.
now it's better but has accel limit violations
before fest would likely be best
let me check will's notes here
ach cvs is down for me
oh there it is
ok will's note specifically says that it was put in to make sure accel and vel limits were honored
yep - that's why I put it back
so the observed 3dchips stuff makes sense
I don't see exactly how it's doing this, but it did work
But with it in, horrible misblends occur
it's almost like exact stop mode even in g64
we did a lot of testing
hmmm - I winder if there's a negative number happening somewhere
for me I'll take good blends and allow accel limit violation....
I wonder if the trapezoids themselves are planned wrong
my machine can do about 200 in/sec^2
of course I want to have good blending and accel limit honored
but we could not figure it out
[EMCMOT] TP_MY_CHOSEN_POISON = CONSTRAINTS_VIOLATED
haha pretty much
of course, it would be more funny if I hadn't copied the misspelled 'configure'
or maybe not
back...breeding chickens here
I think they can handle it from here
err - OK, you can stop now ;)
fantastic purebreed rooster
anyway...bottom line...Will's attempt to fix accel violations basically trashed the tp.
I'll have to trace through tcRunCycle a bit to see what's really going on
half a dozen of us could not figure out a proper fix
I probably won't either, though I know i can't if I don't look through tcRunCycle ;)
But will's code ddid such bad things that we figured it was best not there
well good to have a look anyway
there are two questions - one is "what is the best way to blend?" and the other is "waht does the current code do?"
I took approach #1 when #2 failed
that's what simple_tp is about
I'm updating simple_tp today with the new changes
so maybe adding some blend code to that would be the best route to take
maybe. It still plans trapezoids a bit wrongly and I could use some help with that.
once the trapezoids are right, I think it's not too hard to blend them
ok. though we need to answer #1 before simple_tp can be made into not_so_simple_tp
math is simple enough.
yeah making some parabolas is not so hard
aw the hen is "not in the mood"
that always happens
they need to get to know each other hahaha
I seldom had that problem.
how many headaches can a person have before they should see a doctor?
?? lots I guess
heh - just kidding anyawy
hey...anyone ever bought from carmax?
just wondering if their " no haggle price" is the bottom line
...while the shop heats up
hard to tell. check kbb.com and consumer reports for "invoce prices"
or expected prices, or whatever they call them
I have to test and install those optos
I did check those
they are always too high
ah - you're wondering if they'll haggle over the no-haggle price. good qquestion
03cradek 07simple_tp * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/ (tc.h tp.c tp.h trajectory.h): update simple_tp to work again after recent changes
03cradek 07simple_tp * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/prflib.h: unused
ups man had a load.....piezos came!
rooster and hen are laying around having a smoke...
all Mr. UPS man brought me was new checks :(
written out on your name?
yeah - as the payer, not payee
too bad.. the other way around is more fun :)
it's so much better to be a funds sink rather than a source
anyways.. I've been to that friend of mine last night, to talk about the linuxcnc website
SWPadnos: not sure if you remember the thread on the users list some time ago
not sure - I remember some discussion on IRC though
ah - right, doing it over to look nice
well, he gave it to his designer to come up with a nice redesign
and use php or the like
and afterwards we'll worry about implementation
although I kinda favor joomla
ever seen that?
[16:48:10] <alex_joni> http://www.joomla.org/
SWPadnos: try it out, there's a demo there
we use in in roboitalia
I'm not looking at the code at this point, but I don't see it as that radically different (for the user) than things in php, or even slashcode
but the site looks nice
SWPadnos: the idea is that joomla is a CMS
you don't need to worry about the code
it's a tool, and you can have it look almost anyhow
yep - I understand that, but setting up the CMS to run how you want can be a real pain
though there's an eventual payoff
given that the preferred document for this group is lyx, I'm not sure how much traction you'll get for any web CMS ;)
[16:53:50] <giacus> http://www.docebolms.org/doceboCms/index.php
hah -this is funny
did you see how you can add/modify documents?
I get a bunch of smaps a day about "enlargement"
anyway - here's a great subject line:
"Your partner will thank you. yuck"
they really should filter their random word lists
probably that yuck is what makes it pass spamfilters ;)
don't worry, the one they send you tomorrow will have a better word.
I actually don't have any auto-delete filters set up, just auto-mark
I only get around 25-30/day
I also get about 100/day
99 are porn :P
I get around 6-10 on about 5 email accounts
see - the porn ones are OK, I just don't need enlargement or longevity (or an ocean of sperm)
but I hardly get any porn spam these days
you shoud try hotmail for that :D
I don't need it badly enough to do that ;)
03jepler * 10emc2/src/ (54 files in 30 dirs): (log message trimmed)
Revamp the build system of emc2.
The make is "almost nonrecursive": All userspace targets are built from a single
invocation of make, and then all realtime targets are built from a second
invocation of make. For more information about why this is a good thing, read
[16:59:44] <CIA-8> http://www.pcug.org.au/~millerp/rmch/recu-make-cons-harm.html
On one test system, the time for a complete rebuild dropped 20% from 3:17 to
to what - tell us, tell us!
3:17 * 80%
yeah -I can do the math, but I'm American!
* giacus wave to jepler
jepler: can I change an include file and get a correct build without cleaning now?
jepler: that sounds nice..
* alex_joni looks
jepler: that's more important than 20% speedup to me
I have what may be a totally stupid question.
cradek: That should be true for the userspace targets; I'm less sure for "kbuild"
if you're cutting a workpiece larger than the working area of your mill, can you unmount, move, and re-mount the workpiece to allow you to actually make it on a mill that's too small to do it all at once?
kbuild will just issue a make in the given directory, after initializing kernel-related stuff
bill2or3: sure you can, you just need to make sure you are accurate enough on the mounting
ok cool. I'm trying to decide on a size for my DIY mill project.
I'm thinking I want a workspace of like 8" by 12".
03jepler * 10emc2/src/.cvsignore: fix ignores to match new Makefiles
but make sure that the workpiece isn't so big that the little mill can't move it, or that the miill tips over when it's in some position
often making a part takes several/many mountings
I always overengineer about 30-40% ;)
I guess I'm a worse engineer - I go for 50-100%
SWPadnos: let's say more cautious
I just dont want to make something that takes over my garage.
paranoid is fine
and eats you up one day
wow that commit dropped a bunch of e-mails in my mailbox
jepler: one question
yeah, one email / directory
I am reading through the Makefile now
does this build rtapi.ko or rtai_rtapi.ko ?
# Subdirectory: rtapi
obj-$(CONFIG_RTAPI) += rtapi/$(RTPREFIX)_rtapi.o
okly like 30 or so
alex_joni: hmm, good question
because it seems to me it's rtai_rtapi.ko
alex_joni: Looks like it's going to build rtapi/rtai_rtapi.ko which is probably wrong
make that obj-$(CONFIG_RTAPI) += rtapi/rtapi.o
yeah, I'm not rebuilding rtapi.ko
rtapi-objs := rtapi/$(CONFIG_RTAPI)_rtapi.o
I tested that emc would still start up, but I didn't catch that the old rtapi.ko was still there from the old build
ok, just struck me odd by reading the file..
(I mean $(TOP)/rtlib/rtapi.ko)
yeah I know
hmmm - the axis binary should be deleted if there are changes to the headers it uses
that would be easier to manage if axis were a part of emc2 ;)
jepler: I did some of the 2.6 port in the makefiles, but I'm a bit lost in this Makefile (lots more complicated than what I'm used to ;)
03jepler * 10emc2/src/Makefile: build the rtapi kernel module with the right name
so I guess other people will be even more confused..
maybe you could hack up a short info
I didn't get copies of the new files in the commit messages, just that they had been created
there are no new files
alex_joni: there were a bunch of new files (Submakefiles)
bleh.. joomla is all borked in konqueror
fenn: who cares about konqueror?
konqueror is borked by itself :D
looks fine in firefox, opera, IE, lynx, w3m, over here
er, lynx doesnt really work right actually
03jepler * 10emc2/src/Makefile: always use 'gcc' (assuming it's gcc 3 or better) to generate dependency information for "C" source files, because gcc-2.95 doesn't accept the right flags
jepler: I don't see the install rule anymore..
maybe I'm looking in the wrong location ?
alex_joni: That's one of the notes in the log entry .. there's not an install target yet
but, argh, first I have to fix this compile problem that exists on bdi4 but didn't show up on ubuntu
welcome to the wonderful world of backward compatibility
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/3.3.5/include/stdarg.h:54: warning: `va_copy' redefined
include/linux/compiler-gcc2.h:29: warning: this is the location of the previous definition
that's a warning :)
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/3.3.5/include/stdarg.h:43: parse error before `__gnuc_va_list'
since when do programmers care about warnings?
when they weren't there before you changed something
gcc-2.95 -Wp,-MD,/home/emc/emc2/src/libnml/posemath/.sincos.o.d -nostdinc -isystem /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i486-linux/3.3.5/include
this seems a bit suspect, to call gcc-2.95 ... -isystem ...3.3.5...
yeah, that doesn't seem right at all
but the -isystem isn't from my makefile
NOSTDINC_FLAGS += -nostdinc -isystem $(shell $(CC) -print-file-name=include)
you must not have $(CC) set right?
% gcc-2.95 -print-file-name=include
then were did gcc-2.95 in the commandline come from?
jepler: what does Makefile.inc say?
cradek: yeah, maybe that fixes it
CC = @CC@
Missing rtapi.conf. Did you run 'make rtapi' ?
rtapi.conf was generated by one of the makefiles
03jepler * 10emc2/src/Makefile: Pass CC to kernel build
03jepler * 10emc2/src/rtapi/Submakefile: Build rtpai.conf
whee look at it go
jepler's on a roll
it still doesn't work on bdi4
[1969250.367776] rtapi: Unknown symbol nano2count
I got no errors on my bdi4 build
SWPadnos: does it run?
well - I didn't try that :)
I get an error inserting rtapi.ko
lemme install axis and see
actually, I get about 30 or so unknown symbols from rtapi
yeah, me too
"scripts/realtime start" doesn't work
shouldn't it insmod something before rtapi.ko?
jepler: adeos is the first
$ sh -x ./scripts/realtime start 2>&1 | grep -i adeos
maybe rtapi.conf is still incorrect
and let me know what's in there
.runinfo isn't used anymore
# List of realtime kernel modules to be loaded
+MODULES='adeos rtai_hal rtai_ksched rtai_fifos rtai_shm rtai_sem rtai_math'
.runinfo is looked at by rtai-load I think
OK, I think I know what's wrong ..
rtai-load isn't used anymore
jepler: where is liblxrt?
cradek: what's liblxrt?
I'm not sure
The empty list is from the new rtapi.conf
% nm /usr/lib/liblxrt.a |grep nano2count
000016ac T nano2count
000019b0 T nano2count_cpuid
yes, because RTAI_MOD doesn't exist anymore
yay, now it runs on bdi4
jepler: you missed something :)
19:57 < cradek> jepler: where is liblxrt?
# This is a list of the realtime modules provided by the OS
# that are to be loaded - Some will not be present on certain
# systems, but they still need to be listed if systems that do have
# them are to work.
RTAI_MOD="adeos rtai rt_mem_mgr rtai_sched rtai_fifos rtai_shm rtai_libm"
# For RTAI-3, we need to condsider using the RTAI scripts to load these modules.
RTAI3_MOD="adeos rtai_hal rtai_ksched rtai_fifos rtai_shm rtai_sem rtai_math"
RTL_MOD="rtl mbuff rtl_time rtl_sched rtl_posixio rtl_fifo"
that was in rtapi/Makefile
03jepler * 10emc2/src/rtapi/Submakefile: additional environment variables for rtapi.conf script
hmm - I wasn't able to get it to work just by cvs up / make
yay, it runs for me
alex_joni: If not earlier, I'll try to be around on sunday to answer questions about the new Makefile+Submakefile system
should I still configure or make clean (or make dep...)?
ok, does it still work on 2.4 ?
and 2.2 ?
alex_joni: haha, good one
cradek: I'm very serious
SWPadnos: rm scripts/rtapi.conf
that's the crux of jmk's email
alex_joni: No, I don't have access to the systems to test that
I know, I know
jepler: that's not the best thing :(
alex_joni: that's the point of the compile farm
alex_joni: none of us have all the systems; that doesn't mean we should never change anything
ok, but is it supposed to work on that?
that's really the question..
sorry, I shouldn't have been joking
much better. now if only emc starup were sped up by the same amount ;)
alex_joni: see my mailing list post
I don't see it..
* alex_joni looks if it ain't held back because you're not subscribed
well - once it gets delivered :)
no - he's allowed to send to that list - there was the git announcement
it just took a while
it eventually arrived
SWPadnos: you got it wrong about the IO stuff ;)
check my latest email
as soon as it arrives ;)
it did already
if it was in response to my email
we were talking about the string passed at insmod time:
insmod hal_stg dio="IIOO" (or loadrt hal_stg dio="IIOO")
that means the first 16 bits are input, the next 16 are output.
so basicly standardisation towards the user, not only inside the driver
yes - that's exactly what I was talking about
I think jmk did a quick driver for an I/O board for the Mazak
> Is there a reason why you would force a user to have half inputs and
> half outputs?
that's the functionality of the board
to allow 0..3 and 4..7 to be set independently
either as inputs or outputs
well - hea said that it can be in+out or out+in
so user can do: io, oi, ii, oo
he did not
you're thinking that he meant to use lower case for nibble-wide I/O specs?
ok - that's not how I read it
try to turn it upside down, and read again
"I was thinking of using lower case "i" for bits 0-3 configured and inputs"
he didnt know
and 4-7 as outputs - that weas truncated
who was singing this song ?
SWPadnos: you might have a point..
that's why I responded that way :)
he had mentioned that "obviously he wanted half in and half out" - that's not obvious to me
(well, maybe for him, but not for everyone)
SWPadnos: guess both emails were too vague for me ;)
it was 'I didnt know' .. if I remember well
who wah the band ?
* giacus hitting the head on the wall
giacus: why don't you ask google?
tryng .. :(
too much titles result
I still don't know what song you're talking about :)
but Benny Hill seemed like a good guess anyway
I will find it !
it was he didnt know
or she didnt know
was a very nice song :)
I don't know
the leader was a male
do you have some of the actual words?
from the song
humm us the melody like this: mmm mmhmm hmmmhmmhm mmhmhmhm
was a band , im sure
was a sweet song
fast or slow? "beat-box" or synth (or country, house, rock, rockabilly ...)
was a band
no - wait, Lionel Ritchie
oh - right.
hahaha, ciao :)
do you remember that band ?
was the time of Frankie goes to Hollywood
I need to buy some cds
must drive a long way
was something like PHD
the name of the band
I usually play either old 60's rock or jazz
did you like the songs I picked?
so "The Who" and U2 aren't in the mix, huh
sure they was phd
now looking for the title
the who perhaps
"Behind Blue Eyes" is a good song for good audio systems
I won't let you down, won't let you down again x3
do you remember that :P
[18:34:08] <giacus> http://www.risa.co.uk/sla/song.php?songid=15046
but wasnt what im searching
it was neat when I played a diana Krall song then k4ts sang the same song
nope - just "Don't Bring Me Down" by ELO
uhmm im confusing
they was not the phd band then ..
so, do Steely Dan or Donald Fagen fit in there?
oh - of course there's "The Moody Blues", for good '60s rock (and leter)
darn.. i must go for the dinner
giacus is now known as giacus_dinner
oh fyi swp....carmax does not haggle
ach forgot to order a fuseblock. All those boxes and still missing a part
ok - I figured as much :)
what size/type fuses?
* alex_joni has some 150Amps fuses lying around
the big ceramic type :D
they are meant 1 / phase
air conditioner fuses
depends on the AC
how do you rate your AC' over there? kW?
over here it's some silly BTU standard :D
(whatever those are)
I wouldn't ever have thought US people use BTU
yeah - it's so British ;)
BTU=British Thermal Units
aha - one ton is 12000 BTU/hour
lol.. then I guess our office AC is 3 tons
= 3.516 kW
giacus_dinner is now known as giacus
damn it ! I found it in my old disc 45
Ph.D - I didnt Know
never heard of either :)
* giacus scanning the cover.. :P
oh, it's italian
[19:07:48] <alex_joni> http://www.netsoundsmusic.com/nsudsii/2/6006412/311/2.html
no no ..
google doesn't lie
hey guys are you watching The tutin olimpiadi
if I were there, I would be :)
look, its nice :)
its starting ..
SWPadnos: care for a nice radio?
webstream I mean
mot really, thanks :)
found one that's really great
any idea where to find the hole pattern for the X and Y axis bearing brackets on a Bridgeport series 1?
hmmm make tgz is no longer there..
[19:14:21] <giacus> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/PHD.jpg
fenn: a few things aren't there yet
was that !
hard to find on the net
wonderful song :P
giacus: celentano now on the radio ;)
let me look at turin ;P
[19:16:47] <alex_joni> http://encoder2.rdsnet.ro:8000/live
[19:18:07] <giacus> http://www.torino2006.org/ENG/OlympicGames/home/index.html
looks like joomla
Opening Ceremony with Sofia Loren, Yoko Ono and Susan Sarandon
hmm.. seems RTAI-3.3 got released last week
I missed that
giacus is now known as giacus_turin_200
giacus_turin_200 is now known as giacus_turin_06
[19:35:36] <alex_joni> http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/219-hugedog.jpg
then what's this: http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/205-hugemuscles.jpg
heh, chris do you have a lot of drive-in's in the US?
do you mean food or movie?
I only heard of drive-through till now
[19:39:00] <alex_joni> http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/197-drivein.jpg
that is totally a balloon suit
alex_joni: ok I get the joke
some nice pics at davesdaily ;)
[19:41:32] <fenn> http://outhouserag.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/huge_muscles.jpg
hahaha maded with gimp ?
he's a good fork :)
alex_joni: are you in the olimpic games ?
no, I'm in bed
I'm tired today
your country is strong :D
seems there are quite a few drive-in's in the US (http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/147-drivein.jpg)
giacus_turin_06: oh, thought you were asking me :D
lol, now that's a workstation http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/1130-workstation.jpg
for some reason, I can't view the images you link
I get "hotlink.gif" instead
[19:54:53] <alex_joni> http://media3.davesdaily.com/pictures7/90-pissedofftree.jpg
the davesdaily.com images - I get a blank image called hotlink.gif
[19:55:25] <SWPadnos> http://media3.davesdaily.com/hotlink.gif
is what I get
try www instead of media3, remove the 7 from pictures7, and make the ending htm
[19:55:59] <alex_joni> http://www.davesdaily.com/pictures/90-pissedofftree.htm
yep - that works
SWPadnos: any woods / bears around where you are?
[19:59:07] <alex_joni> http://www.davesdaily.com/pictures/68-bear.htm
<- might be a bit much for weak hearted ;)
people who keep bears for pets should be sent to jail!!!
[20:04:29] <alex_joni> http://www.davesdaily.com/pictures/22-bush.htm
that one, I like ;)
[20:08:01] <fenn> http://outhouserag.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/love_your_job.gif
fenn: they are (at least here)
i was joking.. obviously the bear wasnt the guy's pet..
what's up captain?
heh, i was just about to comment that you missed the false title :)
and i even got a debianversion named after my title... :P
have you replaced the crap in the cvs tree yet?
i saw some discution about it on the mailinglist
hey - forgot it was there ;)
I thought it had been added, but didn't remember where
my memory seems to serve me right.. still
hmmm - it needs gnome
or at least gnomecanvas
yeah, should be tk...
SWPadnos: add it ;)
i played around with it alittle but never did anything with it..
swp check the wiki page..
could do, and may ;)
requires pretty late versions of the pygtk libraries as well
a tk interface would be much better
[20:30:42] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?Crapahalic
especially since emc uses it
ok, I decided I need one of these: http://www.hp.com/products1/servers/scalableservers/superdome/index.html
funny - I went to write a C Din ubuntu, and I get an estimate of 1195432 hours, 45 minutes, 15 seconds ;)
like the extra 15 seconds is gonna matter ;)
lol, Operating temperature: 20�C to 30�C
alex_joni: runs Hockey-Pux :P
only 1 TB RAM, come on
SWPadnos: it's for me, homebox
I figure it's enough for starters
of course, you could control a lot of robots with 192 M5I20 cards ;)
hotswappable robots :D
i would settle with one of these: http://www.sgi.com/products/servers/altix/4000/configs.html
* ValarQ is looking at the 4700 model
with the daughterboard, and fully loaded with RAM and Opteron 880 (or better) would be just fine with me
up to 128TB RAM per system :D
Meg, I think ;)
I mena Gig :)
oh cool - you can still spend $2500+ on an Opteron chip
oh - the SGI
yep, their latest monster
only 48G per module though
that Tyna board can actually take 64G on the motherboard, and another 4 on the daughtercard (with an additional 4 dual-core CPUs)
Tyan - damn
friggin tynas - a bear should eat them all
* ValarQ just got his new x64 crapmachine
what did you get?
some new pc crap
an Athlon64 X2
why are you calling it crap?
jepler: it's build upon intels architecture
with enough transistors, everything is fast///
for ValarQ, everything is crap ;)
SWPadnos: almost :)
SWPadnos: that 4700 isn't ;)
well - it's crap that you (probably) can't afford it then ;)
jepler: I think modern processors are a mockery
alex_joni: i can hear you have taken a more "mastering swedish" lessons :)
SWPadnos: thats true
ValarQ: no, that was memory actually
alex_joni: i don't belive you
alex_joni: i guess you're hooked on that stuff by now :P
jepler: having about 15-20% leaking currents from the power consumption..
ValarQ: not really
alex_joni: ok, had enough of it in lund?
alex_joni: remember that not all of us speak as weird as those Skåningar
A few months I chose not to get an X2 for my new machine .. I wonder if it was the right decision.
ValarQ: what motherboard chipset in your machine?
it was if you didn't spend more than $150 or so on the CPU you chose
i hope it works with my adaptec raidcard :/
though the shift to DDR2 late this or early next year may throw a wrench in the works
SWPadnos: for the CPU itself? It was Sempron 64 300+, socket 754. $89 at the time.
well, then you probably saved enough to be able to buy an A64 later
No X2s for this socket, though, so I get stuck buying a new motherboard too
* alex_joni still runs an 1600 AthlonXP
can't wait to test my machine...
ValarQ: Is nforce an okay chipset with linux these days?
and I really see no need for faster ;)
me, too - I'm on an Athlon XP 1800 right now
jepler: my current works pretty ok
alex_joni: I replaced a 350MHz machine
though I hope the new software works well on the Opteron as well
that's 1600MHz, right SWP?
1533, I think
i have some assemblyjob to do on my new machine, but i must get sober first :(
er, the Sempron I bought was "3000+", 1.8GHz core speed.
it may not be an XP - it's a PC133 / KT133 motherboard
try to stick the CPU directly into the PCI
alex_joni: ah, thats a well known trick :)
btw, did you read about watercooling?
heh - watercooling is why I originally started the CNC thing ;)
* alex_joni looks for an URI
silentpcreview.com or somewhere like that
no, got a better link.. only if I would find it :(
water, that is
what does a p4 dissipate now? couple hundred watts?
140 to 220 or so
sounds about right
the mobile ones are much better
I would imagine
the Opterons are 55, 95, or 130W
per chip, so the dual-core chips are the same as single-core for the same power rating
makes me think of the amps in the music room
heh - 7.1 CPU channels ;)
hmm 3500w @65% efficiency?
it's a good heater. Course I don't run it at 3500 (much)
have to be next door to be able to hear
I am still not quite ready for PWM audio....
it's getting better though
the hybrid amps are pretty good
class A+D, I think
good specs anyway
well - the "sound" won't be the same as tubes for a while ;)
ValarQ: FOUND IT
[20:58:48] <alex_joni> http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56924
I had the fender crankin in the music room last night
heh - that one
somebody posted that thread awhile back. pretty funny.
yeah I did..
I had an optically pumped Yag laser that ran submersed in DI water
without kidding, I've seen movies of PC's running submerged in oil
Hey I ought to try a tube of that "silicon"
I just ordered some high Tg conductive epoxy...60 bucks an ounce.
even though materials cost under $5
Can make it later in house
not unlike diamonds
Well we have formulated and used thousands of kilos of my silver screen printing ink
It's good stuff...well under 20 milliohms/square/mil
in any direction?
I still have the two german astra 3 roll mills I developed the stuff with
bought em from moto
yes any direction
do you get an oxidation layer, or will it conduct if you lay two sheets on top of each other?
it's quite anisotropic
silver oxide is conductive....
as conductive as silver?
but in the heater product it is sealed between two layers of PET
" Look at it this way, you're famous...You may not realize it, but half of the computer enthuasist and overclocking community is linking to this thread right now...=)"
no not as conductive....butas a membrane switch is can function well for years
I'm thinking board interconnect (not a specific application though)
I have some twenty year old parts that still work fine
or a flex cable connector - clamp it down, and you're done
jacky^ is now known as giacus_paltk
we have to watch silver migration issues closely on boards
in some extreme cases like the minn kota trolling motor control I actually used a slot in the board between elements
stops migration issues for sure!
also use the material in the GM int wiper control, ge flat pack light dimmer, and rockwell water meter
so have some pretty good history on it
(worry - wife arrived home from work)
sorry, not worry ;)
well....4:30 friday here...I say let the weekend begin
I agree, even though it's only 4:22 here ;)
I'm gonna go turn off the phase converter
that sounds pretty final
ok...keep my watch to 1 second...let's see...4:23:!%MARK
THAT WAS 4:22:15
we have atomic clocks in basically every room ;)
I just set my watch to nist every few days
REALLY - IT DIDN'T LOOK IT TO ME!
how about smoke detectors
what's in those things...americium or polonium?
I think americium....alpha emitter. polonium is beta IIRC
heh - I never really studdied nukular chemistree
I could ask my mother though
it's nice having P-chem PHd s for parents
just looking at that new rooster....what colors...brilliant reds, snow white ear tufts, huge mettalic green tail
dammit - he'sa peacock ;)
* fenn is getting aruacanas in a couple days
I understand he is a rescued purebreed fighting cock
what's an aruacana?
I gotta take some pictures of this bird
they are free-range...just out in the yard
an easter egg chicken.. all the eggs are different colors, green, white, yellow, brown, gray
and the chickens are all different colors too
I should get some very nice chiks in a while
if a dog doesn't eat the rooster
Usually those fighting cocks can take care of themselves
But i know little about chickens...except they like to peck paul corner.
landing gear aint all its cracked up to be.... ITS MORE
fenn: thought those are araucana not aruacana ?
23:42 < dmessier> soir??
and they're not really laying lots of colours
but some blue-ish kind of eggs
otoh, they should be very yummy I heard
name of the breed of bird pls??
I may have new barnyard politics. Hen just followed the cat around....but now a rooster.
I see rooster/cat issues.
me too.. some one's gonna get hurt
get it on video though
well the spurs on the rooster are small
operant words .. "right now"
they go for the eyes too
i had a ferret and a siemese male that were buddies
ah...possible 6 inches of snow tonight here....fairly rare
with 2 parrokette's .... really...
I believe it
the cat and chicken slept together
this is another classic: http://www.datadocktorn.nu/us_frag1.php
i have pictures of the cat and ferret where you cant tell where one ends and the other begins
there are just too many feet
funny defrg alex
ah...possible ice here too. No salt, no plows. Steep grades. Better check gas for the generator
* giacus_paltk plaing a great guitar solo :P
I restrung some of the guitars last night
also need strings for the sitar...have to order those though
my playing is very rusty.
alex_joni: nice url
kudos to DR. narton
alex_joni: i have to counter with crunchly ;)
i picked up my sons guitar the other night and picke some wicked open chord stuff... we were BOTH surprised...
the more beers I have the better I get of course
alex_joni: here is the first if you want to read them all: http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/B/bells-and-whistles.html#crunchly73-05-28
beer goggles, meet beer headphones
03jepler * 10emc2/src/ (Makefile Submakefile.skel): explain things a little bit
beer.... lower my expectations...
les_w Forget to mention... Freud bits SUCK!
I kind of did a major cleanup of some pretty old guitars....steelwooled and oiled the fingerboards....buffed up the body....etc
Jymmm, how about their saw blades?
And I built these instruments
SWPadnos no clue.
what happened? Freud is generally middle of the road...usually not the best but far from bad
hats off to the instument maker
les_w chattered like crazy and the twist was very loose - compared to CMT
I used to do that dmess. Guitar makers still come and use my cnc for pearl inlay though.
be the mntor you can be
slipping in the collet?
wrong feed rate / SFM
smaller tool nose rad
les_w Nope. but toss in the CMT bit.... nice and quiet.
My CMT bits perform well
I have never used freud in the cnc
les_w If I was to guess, I'd say not balanced.
but have in manual routers
i do damage control analysis
balance would not screech
not enough clearance angle would
les_w Well, it didn't have much of a twist to it that's for sure.
what kind of bit?
drop the rpm... leave the feedrates the same.. 10 % steps.... find where it works
les_w 1/4" downcut
hell, even douglas fir
but swap out for the CMT bit. nice.
the Freud must be misground
torque seems high enuf rigidity ssue... how long a protrusion from the spindle face
dmess spiral downcuts have negative rake on the bottom
not so good for low rigidity machines
I don't use them in hand routers
and rigidity is not an issue in the cnc
in fin ops i like to keep tools short .. hold the part as best i can... and use high sheer & rake cutters.. screw tool life.. make god parts
Palying Diety are we?
Playing Diety are we?
I use both up and downcut...but usually downcut for heavy work. It's stable. Won't suck the work up or the tool down.
god likes high shear angles and rake, of course.
sorry.. its a good complex
i thought i was wrong once but i was mistaken..
cuttin IS a specialty of mine... i like chips
its the sound of money in the morning
if you do climb milling, do you ever have to worry about wood splitting?
weve recently gotten involve in a research projec with McMaster University to investigate material abuse and compressive layer induced by machining
with climb milling splitting is reduced dramatically
but can't do it on a hand router safely
operant word.... safely
* alex_joni goes to bed
yeah climb stuf is for cnc routers only
this CNC stuff RULES
what if you have a router table with a fence?
and only do climb cutting on finish passes
climb on bord
I climb mill on the shaper
but it is an industrial unit with power feed
without power feed sooner or later it will grab something, take off, and suck you in
there is a climb mill and down mill lever??
well it kicks forward rather than back
fun one is slots...one side climb...the other not
i agree... but some double nut machines... lock against each other to climb mill
well with any king of positive power feed it's perfectly safe
i like plunge roughing.... climb the last .025" efficiently... and rock &* roll
or ultra high efficiency feed mills... 0.12" feed per TOOTH
in what, jello?
400 rpm 4 flute...0.03" doc.... actual results....375 ipm feed... and data starvation ffrom the dnc
wah .03" depth isnt much to brag about
4140 heat treated to 45-49 Rc
03jepler * 10emc2/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): cleanups. use addprefix instead of patsubst when appropriate
no part ... just CHIPS... Canadian Machine Tool Sholw 2000
375 ipm on a 12 inch extension.... I BRAG
53 mm cutter
that's 0.037" per tooth
i made 1 ton of chipe in 3 days...
still 12" is pretty long
50 HP machine... gantry..cat 50
what's a chipe?
ppl would come by and ask... What are you makin'.... we'd say chips
it's a type of bird, apparently
I guess I wlll see some outrageous routing at IWF 2006
cutting 3/4 MDF at 2000 ips etc
lok up hitatchi tool les... high feed milling
well I try as much as I can
chips are money it's true
make em fast
steel is now a HIGH commodity
turn it over if you can
Looks like this year we are doing fewer but higher end turkey calls...so I have some machine time to sell
We may do a run of some furniture item
high feed milling is desighnrd ti drive ALL the forces up the spindle
well, my machine can push 2,200 lb....but I don't think the spindle would like it
better bass in my music room!
* giacus_paltk got a hit in the soul
for wood.. i would tool up on pcd tools.. 1 of all your finishers... and forget it unlesss you screw up
I was going to try PCD...read some stuff and talked to some people and the consensus was micrograin carbide was more cost effective
So I just set up diamond sharpening in the shop
for the spiral carbide
we can do about 5 before we lose the secondary bevel
you HAVE to knok its virgin wood.. no nails & there is NO set up error allowed
03cradek * 10emc2/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
* Use the module helper even when running in place. The remaining
piece of the puzzle is to fix halcmd to not require setuid (by also
making it call the module helper.) This will make the module helper
the only setuid part of emc, which is the final goal.
* make it so './configure; make; make install' will give a working
system in /usr/local (using the module helper.) This is how every
prove outs carbide... find the clearance clarence....then R & R
We would get about 3 hrs from a 1/2 spiral carbide with solids....but that was due to the emc TP
it trashes tools pretty fast
it's some better now
how much better??
when feed slows down drastically at waypoints in g64 the resulting near zero chip lot gobbles up $60 bits fast
twice as good with the tp mod
we were talking about that today
but there are side effects to the code mod...check the list
so it is in accel / decel...that she pucked??
yeah. When we fixed the stopping at waypoints...it now can violate max accel
is it poaaibly overbuffering??
basically a fix was coded in 2000 to address accel violations
but it trashed the whole contouring thing
so we took out the "fix" last year
contouring is now smooth, but it may accel more than the maximum value in the .ini
for me, it's a no brainer
let it violate the max accel
if the path is now smooth
6is there a kinematic file available... add kin vel limits to continue to monitor if your gonna throw the machine into next week
I'ts not overbuffering...it's a math error.
you can't violate max_accel with stepgen, by design
that's why there's an error
I am using servo emc1.
and I never saw it with the USC, since it can go so far above the ini max_accel
but stepgen has a hard physical limit on speed, and it also is coded to never exceed the max
imagine what would happen with backlash compensation if that limit were ignored
well we need to fix it for sure. In the near term I'll take the accel violations since my machine can do 0.5g in x, and several g in y and z
steppers are limited by the generator
sure - you can have people set the max_accel and max_vel limits in the ini to be well under the actual machine limits
and then let the stepgen / pid / whatever go over that
but you need 2x to 3x headroom
I'm sure you'd rather not set the limits to 1/3 your machine's capabilities, just to account for a bad TP
overhwad aint cheap
which only shows up on high speed reversals, for the most part
accel violations don't hurt me...but the nasty spike we had before burns up $60 cutters real fast
just wher all the comps come on too
(the offending code in 3d_chips is a g0z10 followed by a g0z-55)
backlash / gradient /
that's you, with your overdesigned machine, and servos
got a 3x accel violation
not the average emc user ...
right swp I am not typical
the best fix is to fix the TP
or leave that OLD_CODE define out, and you'll get the new code with the overloads ;)
but smoother operation
from a read.. that dumpster diving 65 inches... DOWN.... unless you have 75" on Z... its NOT GOOD TO GO
We tried so hard to do the fix that will intended...without trashing the tp
but we could not
do you have a little time to discuss TP issues?
ok - give me a few minutes to finish an email, and I'll get on that subject with you
I am going to check on my 98 yo grandma for a few minutes...we may get snowed in tonight
back in a few
les... im not a coder ( these days) but i know systems...
any help ... im in
part of the discussion will be "what's the best thing to do for blending"
so you can definitely help there, I think
what are the current tp/blend algorithms based on.... or are there any
I've been trying to figure that out ;)
average the last 3 points.... lookahead the next 3 pts put it the middle.. upon an acute condition... evealuated on poit to poin... mode.. "wae nned a sharp corner"
that's not it ;)
can we incorporate b-splines>>
i'm playing the devils advocate
it COULD change the world...
knots & weights
vector & time
dmessier: it seems to be more like "whoever wants to write it, will you please write it already cause we know what we want it to do"
back. Checked on my grandma and an employee. get snowed in in the mountains and you could starve or freeze.
* bill2or3 won his stepper drivers, $50each
that just leaves figuring out what I'm doing for rails/bearings
low cost high precision linear rails
your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
well, I design machines.
dont listen to him, he just talks on the phone/irc all day
newsletter....you know, that's a damn good idea
yeah I get paid for talking on the phone like teenage girls.
we call that "spam" in more enlightened parts of the world
who actually has a price list for abba rails?
well people welcome advertising if it has useful content
I have some quotes.
about $100/meter for 20 mm
trucks are about $50
i would pay money for a service that gave me the actual prices of various vendors..
we have like 15+ mail servers here because of what all the advertisers consider "useful"
unless you get luvky on ebay
"truck" is the bearing-part that slides on the rail?
and I need *8* of those.
well, it's about one third to one half the price of most...
stop! drawerslide! woo oo oo oo ooh oh ooh oh
what do you think about fixedxy spindle on a gantry over an X-Y table, compared to a moving-X spindle over a "y table" ?
I haven't decided which to do yet.
it's as good as I can get for new stuff
you do need 2 trucks per rail right?
they're not so wide that you can use one-per...?
moving gantry has advantages...but costs much more
what are the advantages of a moving gantry?
2 trucks per rail yes
seems like it'd be a lot harder to keep rigid
less mass to sling around?
moving gantry machine is narrower, too.
yeah....moving mass does not change with work....so servos can be tuned much tighter
* fenn is stuck in "make it as rigid as possible" mode
that's a good mode to be in
yeah, I probablly will use a fixed gantry
unless it is a big machine fixed gantry is the way to go
it's gonna be small, 18" x 24" I think.
maybe 4-5" of Z travel
it's my mother - I'm asking her about this problem
basically in machine tools maximize SQRT (stiffness/mass)
BTW as a bulk property that ratio is just about identical for aluminm and steel
steel is cheaper though.
steel has better damping
I have some (actual dimension) 1" x 5.5" I'd like to glue up, but dont have a jointer/planer, am I screwed ?
jymmm just face mill it :)
fenn ....and 10 hours later....
240 sq inches.... yuck
I've never glued up anything, so nfc.
anything I should watch out for?
use lots of clamps
and lots of glue
I have soem gorilla glue
that will foam and expand to fill cracks.. fyi
is that a good or bad thing?
probably a good thing
This wood is pretty fiberous if that makes a difference
[23:41:10] <fenn> http://www.woodworking.com/ww101glue.cfm
ok - I'm back now
btw jymmm gorilla glue is cyanoacrylate and gives off toxic fumes when burned..
er, crap not cyanoacrylate
its polyurethane but gives off cyanide when burned
not enough to kill you but..
I hear ya... but hopefully what I make isn't going to be burned either =)
hmmm - it looks like there's an uninitialized variable in that OLD_CODE
ahhh skype to mexico...goverment messes with it I am told...lost connection
anyway glue...titebond III or gorilla
gorilla might not be good for you...it is moisture cure and you are in a desert
you can spray water on the wood before applying the glue
les_w Californai isn't a desert yet =)
yeah fenn spray water
and what variable is not initialized?
I glue up panels with titebond II...they have stood up to several years outdoors np
well - the velCart variable is initialized to 0, then gets added to each time through the loop, which makes no sense to me
it's done after it's used though, so it looked wrong at first
so it's an integration?
what doesn't make sense to me is why this calculation is done for the entire tpRunQueue every time
I do like the comment at the beginning of the function though:
/* what the hell does this do? It is one of the key functions in
the whole planner, and it doesn't have any overall comments :-(
well myself, paul , jon E., Dave, Alex, jmk could not figure it out.