03cradek * 10emc2/debian/emc2.files: I didn't mean to check these in
lerman_ is now known as lerman
what happened to your s?
I guess you lost it somewhere
my other PC is using it :)
I suppose there are only so many s in the world
yeah, I was lucky to get one
robin_z is now known as robin_sz
anybody running the new debs (emc2, axis) under ubuntu?
LawrenceG: I have run them a little bit
I trod in some ubuntu once.
I am having trouble getting the rt modules to install
are there errors in 'dmesg'? (type 'dmesg' at a terminal window and look at the last lines)
on adeos.ko, get a files exists error
and a bunch of operation not permitted on rtai_*
this is in a terminal window when I run emc from the terminal
look at 'dmesg', sometimes it has additional information
from what you've told me so far, it sounds like the symptom that when emc fails to start once, it can leave some modules around, and you get this message the next time .. instead of whatever the underlying problem was.
dmesg shows a whole pile of unknown symbol errors on all the rtai modules
umm, I don't know if what I just said made any sense
scroll back to the earliest errors (or use dmesg | less)
one thing I ran into on my laptop was that the very first module would complain about my 'APIC', which was disabled. Do you have a message like that?
* LawrenceG looking
this is the message I got:
./base/arch/i386/hal/hal.piped:printk("RTAI[hal]: ERROR, LOCAL APIC CONFIGURED BUT NOT AVAILABLE/ENABLED\n");
hmmm.. first error in dmesg seems to be "RTAI[hal] .... yep thats the one I see
OK. The next thing to try is to boot the kernel with the "lapic" flag. Are you familiar with setting kernel flags in grub?
not recently, but I can probably figure it out..... is there a special line you can paste into menu.lst
[02:51:43] <jepler> http://pastebin.com/542682
basically, copy the group of lines for the -magma kernel to above the AUTOMAGIC line, and then add 'lapic' after 'ro'
what hardware are you using (CPU)?
[02:54:06] <jepler> http://www.captain.at/programming/rtai/apic.php
its an old 200mhz P?? 196mb
looks like this error would go away if I compiled the kernel without CONFIG_X86_LOCAL_APIC but I don't know what problems that might cause
suspect there will be an issue with period as well
original pentiums might not have a local APIC
bah, ignore me, I don't know why I said that
I get spoiled running 2+ghz devel machine... its takes patience on the sub 500mhz boxes, but they still work!
LawrenceG: did you just install this ubuntu?
I was using it as a test box for working with the surplus 3ph ac servo driver
so its been around for a few months
LawrenceG: are you using the packages from http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/emc2/
yes... kernel, modules, emc2, axis
cradek: hm, in my linux-2.6.git tree (indeterminate version) there's a flag CONFIG_X86_GOOD_APIC which seems to force use of the local APIC .. with a scary comment
I didn't know you were doing that; I'm still a bit in the development phase with these
LawrenceG: I encourage you to use them, but beware they're still changing
same problem.... "no local apic present or hradware disabled"
have a look at 'cat /proc/cmdline'
showed up higher up in the desg stuff.... can play with bios settings
make sure it says lapic there
says root=/dev/hda3 ro lapic
hmm, yeah maybe you need to look at the system bios
I'm pretty sure all the power save stuff is shut off....
no problem thats its under devel... I am very happy to see that.... it will make installs very easy.
I wanted to see if I could help test it
I appreciate it
maybe there's something about APIC in your bios
note ACPI (power management) does not equal APIC
The other approach would be to rebuid the kernel and rtai without X86_FEATURE_APIC, but that would take a fortnight on your machine
rats... monitor is not syncing to bios display...
got it.... had to power up with monitor disconnected....
"""What is APIC? APIC is a distributed set of devices that make up an interrupt controller. In current implementations, each part of a system is connected by an APIC bus. One part of the system, the "local APIC," delivers interrupts to a specific processor; for example, a machine with three processors must have three local APICs. Intel has been building local APICs into their processors since the Pentium P54c in 1994. Computers built with genuine
I think I remember some of those very old boards had bios settings about interrupt routing
looks like P54c covers 75MHz and up Pentiums
[03:15:33] <jepler> http://www.x86.org/intel.doc/586manuals.htm
I have a couple P90 around I think
but some of the comments in the linux source code seem to imply that it was only usable since Pentium MMX
MMX were the P166?
* If we were told we had a good local APIC, check for buggy Pentia,
* i.e. all B steppings and the C2 stepping of P54C when using their
* integrated APIC (see 11AP erratum in "Pentium Processor
* Specification Update").
is linux considered to be a pnp aware o/s?
cradek: I don't know about MMX and speeds. This is the list I was reading: http://www.x86.org/intel.doc/586manuals.htm
LawrenceG: I think so
LawrenceG: anything about interrupts or interrupt routing in there?
will try turning it on.... that should leave the pci resource allocations to theos
LawrenceG: if your pentium is one of those blacklisted, you might be somewhat out of luck
bios is from 1995... it does have the table of irq/dma allocations
main proc is a p54c (on bios boot info splash)
when it boots, we'll check the stepping and see if it's blacklisted
we could also try booting with "noapic"
I've got a Pentium PRO 200 board/processor here you could have if you were nearby
np.... I have a dual pp200 in the junk somewhere... not sure if that would help or hurt emc
you'd also have to rebuild to get smp, and I don't know what rtai thinks of that
but you could easily run it on one processor
trying boot with noapic.....
did you check your processor stepping (cat /proc/cpuinfo)
would like to know if it's one listed in bugs.h
will in a moment
itel pentium stepping 0c flashed by on booting
ok.... intel, family 5, model 2, pentium 75-200, stepping 12, 199.453mhz
hmm, I wonder if stepping 12 is B or C2
LawrenceG: does noapic have any effect?
[03:41:51] <jepler> http://pastebin.com/542718
still failed..... looking through dmesg now
it looks like 5 / 2 / 12 doesn't trigger the test
no panic anyway!
cradek: are you sure that the person who used 'noapic' was actually able to run emc, or just to boot with the realtime kernel? The way I read the source to rtai3.3test4 it won't load the realtime modules without an APIC
jepler: I'm 100% sure
LawrenceG: well, that code is actually #if'd out, because CONFIG_X86_GOOD_APIC isn't defined in cradek's kernel
jepler: it surprised me too
maybe I should rebuild with 586MMX and GOOD_APIC
althought that still wouldn't have helped jmk's machine which needed 'noapic'
I'm pretty sure LawrenceG's machine isn't MMX
so it won't help him either
this is a mess and I don't remember it ever being a problem with 2.4 kernels.
It would be nice if there was a combination of settings that would give me that old behavior, whatever it was
of course maybe I've just been lucky for a long time
rebuild with CONFIG_X86_LOCAL_APIC off?
dmesg still gives RTAI[hal]: ERROR local apic configured but not available/enabled
thanks for helping
LawrenceG: I'm going to build a new kernel package that should fix this.
LawrenceG: it will take a little while.
I can test it whenever you say
ok I will let you know
it will probably be done in an hour or less
not nearly as long as building on this box!
yeah, days faster probably
I was joking when I said "fortnight", but probably not by more than a factor of 10...
ugh, another 190 megs of updates on my fedora machine
I started palying with emc in about 1997 and it took 2 weeks to get my first running system so you are right
it would probably take no more than a day or two.
jepler: holy crap
looks like they upgraded kde from 3.5.0 to 3.5.1
== 150 megs
LawrenceG: does that machine have working network so you can use apt-get upgrade?
jepler: do you use kde?
jepler: that's pretty funny then
when stuff updates, does the old stuff get purged?
cradek: yes... all setup with the .ro repository
If I'd known then what I know now, I might have installed ubuntu on this machine
jepler: of course it's never too late
A-L-P-H-A: what specifically do you mean? I can give a better answer.
like, if I do an apt-get update kde, will it clean everything up nicely?
apt-get upgrade replaces old packages with the new. It does it carefully and nicely.
for example if you have a config file that you changed, but the package updates it, it will show you the differences and ask which you want to keep.
typically though, software can be updated without asking any questions like that.
unless you're running the apt-rpm patch, in which case is gleefully ransacks your system, leaving a mess that you cant even fix with a rescue disk
what is apt-rpm?
so dont ever try to upgrade glibc with rpm
apt-get for rpm based distro's
its an ugly hack really
who would use that? that's crazy talk
<--- newb remember?
I should really turn on my CNC machine... I haven't in months.
stupid machine, sitting there doing dink.
kinkos should have cnc mills
and 3d scanners
that would certainly be branching out into different markets.
they could afford it
yummm... 3d scanners.
I would so love one...
take apart my cellphone, and make a cover for it.
how cool would alu cell phone cover be?!?! :)
cover = case
I think my previous phone was Ti - it was very light and wore well
i think titanium is the "how cool would it be" material these days
I'm too poor to make an ti case.
I'd like to make a wood shell for my cellphone, but too darn thin =)
I hear Ti is cheap now
and besides, it would involve forming.
not that cheap
yeah mine was thin and stamped, not milled
carbon fiber/kevlar would be more suitable for custom work
yeah... stamped works for large numbers.
not for one offs.
hmm... not sude how I would like a CF weaved case.
hard-coat anodized aluminum would wear well
I got a hard coater around here.
you'd have to have aluminum buttons to match
I think if you're going to make art, make art - not a cover for a piece of junk throwaway consumer item
all cell phones are.
and if you're going to make art, don't weld a bunch of rusty crap together in my shop and leave it laying around on the floor
are throw away.
try keeping a phone longer than 3 years
yeah I know, that's actually my point
who played in your shop fenn?
* fenn sighs
it wasn't me
I have welded rusty crap together, but called it a repair job, not art
I'm going to machine some spikes for my snowboard (stomp pad)
something like these. http://cgi.ebay.com/Snowboard-Stomp-pad-Dakine-stomp-pad-Studs-New_W0QQitemZ7216768726QQcategoryZ62170QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
looks like a lathe job
how do those 6 things attach to whatever?
oh I see it says adhesive
cradek: how is that kernel build going?
finished, working on updating the repository now
cool.... do you have scripts set up for building the debs? or is it in the make files
it's an unholy combination of things
I believe it....
ok, uploading everything now. maybe 10 mins.
how close is the offical release?
I was shooting for the end of last year
but that doesn't answer your question...
mostly it's in the hands of ray and jmk, they are working on last-minute stuff.
well, I have been using emc2 since about the middle of last year.... the new config stuff looks good... I'd like to play with cl a bit.
aside from the configurating tools, I think emc2 is ready
it does MANY things better than emc1 already.
yes, I havent used the subroutines and conditional stuff yet.... But I have made 1/2 a dozen circuit boards
some where prettier than others
that's the way it goes I'm sure
getting repeatable depth control is hard on the shoptask because of the huge rack and pinion feed
on the quill...
would like to add a small high speed spindle and z axis
on my PCBs I cut .0045 deep iirc
it's pretty critical since it's a V tool
yea... I did one board and it was perfect.... peeled the copper off cleanly without disturbing the fiberglass
too deep and the fiberglass messes things up
I leave the extra copper on the board - it doesn't hurt anything
sometimes I use it as the ground plane
well... cut the copper isolation tracks cleanly
yea I leave all the extra on as well
a buddy of mine just built a small router table and cut a double sidded board... very nice... it is made from suplus printer steppers and 1/4 20 all thread with bronnze bearings running on ground rod ways
what are the leadnuts?
he made anti backlash nuts from brass plumbing fittings threaded on the inside
a spring loaded deal?
about a 10x10x3" work zone
he should post some photos
run by emc?
I got him to take lots of pictures so he could do a web page.... he is running emc2/axis
what did he use for stepper drivers?
he even made a spindle from an old router shaft/collet driven by a treadmill motor
cool, that's closed-loop speed control then
some 3955 boards ge got from pmi I think
I bet he had to gear it up a lot...
treadmill motor runs at 6000rpm@90vdc... I think his speed up is between 2 and 3
12-18k is a good range for small stuff
only problem so far is the treadmill motor gets very toasty.... needs fan cooling
yeah they usually have fans on the back shaft
67mb of updates.... downloading now
no, the upload isn't done!
I wish there was a way I could prevent that...
I bet apt wouldn't install them because the gpg sig doesn't match.
hmm, sf cvs is still down.
if you clone my git repository of emc2 (git://axis.unpy.net/emc.git) you can at least perform actions like git-diff offline
lerman_ is now known as lerman