Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
03cradek * 10emc2/src/Makefile: This was unnecessarily dangerous.
Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
all sleeping here around ? :P
I've a news for all you..
Jacky^ is going to leave EMC :(��
Jacky^ want to thank you and he's going to leave the channel
It was a pleasure to talk to you :(�
after 9 months its hard to leave ..
I was in love with EMC
but I must go :(
fenn: ..sigh ! goodbay
this channel sure will be dead without you
I know ..
I've no choice :(��
have to get a job? girlfriend jealous?
too many cats?
I got tired, I've not so much time to go on here :(
too many things to do
too few time :/
anyway, remember, Jacky^ was a good guy, he's loved you :P
les_w: still there ?
alex_joni: are you ?
mmmhh ok, later.
Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
Hi Jymmm !
goodbay my friend ..
me is leaving the channel
* Jacky^ is leaving the channel
what bu- mean ? :/
Jacky^: You have to say it out loud
like bye-bye, but with an accent
oh .. first time I heard
btw, thanks, you teach me a lot of new words :P
but I must go now .. :(�
I would wait to bu-bye other peoples.. but it seem they're not around !
goobye my friends. goodbye les_w paelscrit CIA-17 websys ValarQ acemi SWPadnos robin LawrenceG steves_logging ChanServ bill20r3 logger_aj djb_rh A-L-P-H-A ccjoe cradek picnet alex_joni jtr_ anonimasu Jacky^ jepler lerman bill2or3 fenn
* Jacky^ sigh !
some of those blokes havent said anything in months!
jacky you can always just become a lurker
mmm.. its sad
but I must DO IT
now leaving ..
hi all !
is this the Enhanced Machine Control channel ?
hi jepler , nice to meet you :D
* giacus wonder what k4ts will do this evening looking for Jacky^ ..
umm, who's that"
who ? Jacky^ ?
never seen ..
he's a bastard anyway!
fenn Since Jacky is gone, we can move in on his girlfriend!
um, yeah, from like 8,000 miles away
fenn I hear she likes California
anyone calls me ?
Jymmm: there are a lot of beautiful girls there around !
dman it .. and I'm here .. :(((
you've the best girls of the planet there ! :P
where you from ?
giacus/Jacky^: your game isn't very funny
les_w: what about nice girls there ?
I think I need a soft start in new servo supply for the machine
here, 40% are nice :)
the girls here have no teeth.
I am wondering about just throwing 3kw supply across the line
cradek: right too
plus the VFD
mmhh.. take care
Jacky was nice for me as nick
but .. someone tell me its a woman name :(
infact, it is ..
dunno how giacus sound in english
but it should be much better
jacky could be either
the very male equivalent is "jack"
girl's names like that usually end in I, like jacki
I kknow jackie maybe its right for a male
bbtw, thins new nick should be ok
jackie is more likely female than jacky
The toothless girls here are named sally mae or tammy.
whats wrong with "giacomo"?
well, actually they have teeth up to about age 18
My last wife was a scarlet type for sure
The day we had divorce we went car shopping after
and she bought a $40,000 pickup truck.
"king ranch" 4x4
I have a similar truck but without all the fancy stuff
very bad ride and handling
well at least she got your money's worth
but hey it's a truck
oh it was her money
I still have to buy a car but don't want to
..yes, its hard to be married here, too
ITW is bugging me about getting up there for a while
live in hotel a couple weeks I guess
change your name to "nikola"
well will be doing ultrasonics
but will visit gema
they are the nikola guys
tesla was way into all kinds of resonant phenomenon
you know, invented powder coating
hmm must google power supply soft start...
big resistor, little resistor, transistor..
requires mucking around inside the vfd though
I read in today's news italian is coming to be appreciated in US school
nice news, we're going to be popoular as spanish
this should do...
[15:12:39] <les_w> http://sound.westhost.com/project39.htm
the great issue of internet is the language
better than triacs I think
I hope 15-20 years yet and we'll get a universal language
spanish is almost a second language here now
it was tried...
I know, I was kidding
hmmm yeah just a voltage relay....
English (or whatever this is called that we see on the internet) is surely going to be it
I did that in the rotary converter
usually autside countries know only 3 things about italy: pizza mafia mandolino
I know more...I red the books you sent
maybe we're going right now..
les_w: yeah, you learn more about naples
well off to the shop for me...things getting busy again
italy isnt too small :(
I'm 37 years old , I not know many places of ite yet !
there's no enough time :((
in the US I just seen Detroit, L.A ans few other place
in 20 days
live is so short
we need a personal plane :P
Jymmm: you should able to drive a plane
les is the pilot
If les_w teach you , you could teach me
hehe, I know
I was 19 years old when I leaved the school :(
I choosed to work
it wasnt right ..
now, tryng to get it back
I went to school 2 years, worked 4, then went back to school for 3
after I understood, the best teasure a man can have is the KNOWLEDGE
well, I went to school mainly because it was fun.
I almost stayed
they offered a position
But I made much more money in industry.
actually here its hard, also for guys from university
to find a place to work
university school here its just a good start point
It was hard here the last few years but now there seems to be a shortage of engineers and scientists
2001 was a bad time to start a business
now isnt better .. at least here
we're waitig for political elections in april 206
its the lates hope
any family here have any son with 3 cell phone, and a car WITHOUT working ..
it can be so for a long time ..
we're going to get peoples having debits before born
so, Euro is stron on Dollar, but its based on debits ..
its only paper
I'de like to rewind time and came back in 60's 70's years
here things are better...at least for me
I got lucky with latest invention I think
I hope weel for me too in the next future :P
I thought the contract would just end after one month with me writing a report that the request was not practical
individual business are ok
but then I came up with something
looking in general the prospective is bad
Well I am just trying to save most of the money for later bad times
exept for a car.
i appreciated bush sayng he's looking for alternative energy ..
hey - I started my business in 2001
Bush is a shithead
can I say that on IRC?
did you have a rough start swp?
um - well, sort of ;)
years 1 and 2 were great, 3 was a problem, now we're back up to speed
he wait years to understand it ? :(
I gave the tool works one year notice that I wanted to resign and start my own company
I was asked to do something which I wasn't interested in, so I said "nope - in fact, I think I'll be leaving now"
But I stayed on a bit longer because I had a NVH problem to fix in the ford taurus/sable platform
gave 2 weeks notice, that was about it
to be honest I think alex_joni have the best luck to start a business from there ..
I had no problems at ITW, I just thought it was time to have my own company.
always looking with an eye to the china ..
china is overrated. regular ceramic is fine
They asked if I would keep doing some projects for them
sam happened with me, since I was the (only) software guy
Many thought I was absolutely nuts...because I had (have) a fellowship.
That's a job for life...
I ended up doing a couple of projects for my old company, plus I got the 3 or 4 other customers they couldn't serve any more
who unfortunately all stopped wanting engineering services at the smae time
Most of my work is with the old company, but I need to diversify
but with 700 divisions....I keep busy
that's is a mistake
I do need to have work from other places
btw, the most important thing is to believe in the progress
I want to believe in it
In my upcoming trip I will visit many companies
but all owned by ITW.
I think a company can have 1 owner or 100000 owners
but not 5 or 10
SWP are all your jobs software?
3 is a bad number
nope - I do some hardware as well
I'm kind of in the process of designing an HD camera for network / array use
mine are all optics or acoustics work
I'm usually doing controls, or small embedded things (like the back massagers in business class in the 777)
oh yeah...you also worked on the 777
boeing is mean mean mean
sort of - just cabin stuff, for a sub-sub-sub-sub-contractor
recall I did the annunciators.
First LED ones.
funny - you'd think they (the aerospace industry) would have latched on to LEDs as soon as they were invented
higher efficiency, cooler, and last longer than incandescent
It wasn't easy with the early hi brightess leds
I imagine that "spreading" the beam was the biggest issue
I had to really pull some optical tricks
Oh there were strigent specs for off axis brightness
did you need to redesign the LED packages themselves, or just the housing around them?
The thing ended up looking like tiny newtonian telescope optics
yeah custom packages
early HP heterojuction chips
green was really hard then
hi-brite green are still just as expensive as blue
I had to use multiple chips
cost was not much of an issue as you might expect
not in aerospace, but I know the people buying from my customer were real pricks
maybe that's why my people went out of business
I usually did not do aerospace stuff
car and oem industrial mostly
I think I have a job coming up making a good ir detector for hot melt glue
but for a dollar or two
cost, not sale?
D* stuff. Detectors are easy. Really low cost ones are not.
especially at 7 microns or so
so stuff like silicon is out.
is this a remote hot glue sensing app, or something to control the temp of the gun?
7 microns? is that a wavelength?
all very simple stuff, just a cost issue
yes a wavelength
It's kind of like design issues for the little green thing on car batteries
you know, to check the charge?
That's one of ours.
the electrolyte thing?
But the patents have run out so I had to design something new.
It's a little plastic ball and a lightpipe
So I had to design an electronic one.
but still as cheap as the ball/lightpipe
giacus is now known as giacus_afk
I always thought the green indicator was one of the slickest inventions....
We sort the balls in vats of sugar water
what are they made of?
hey come on now.. patents are up :P
the lightpipe is SAN
you probably dont know huh
that won't work haha
it's not in the patent
so now you just measure the conductivity of the electrolyte?
no I do it optically
but in a different way
you'll see it soon
nah i'm too cheap to buy a new battery.. stuff breaks and then it sits there
Well the charge monitor has only one use....warranty
dealers charge dead batteries back to the car maker
charge as in money
03cradek * 10emc2/ (4 files in 3 dirs): move tkemc resources to the right place, move docs to the right place
At the auto show I set up a booth where I measured the alcohol content of drinks
with a little plastic thing
hooked to a laptop
that's not such a big deal...
the big deal is that it costs a buck.
looking for a deal with big toroid transformers
seems none are bigger than 1.5 kva
I'm looking for ideas for cheap linear rails.
hate to start sticking secondaries in series
for my ghetto-mill
cheap is relative, but hiwin or similar is hard to beat
hundred bucks per meter, $50 trucks
pretty ghetto, I want to keep it under $500.
here's some options: skate bearing on gas pipe, drawer slide, centerless ground rod and precision bearing blocks..
mostly just to learn, I'll do a better one later.
I forgot...a router right?
my current thinking is threaded rod and derlin nuts.
ah yes derlin....very popular.
get acme threaded rod.. it's almost as cheap
worth the extra $2 any day
what does the 'acme' designale? a type or a brand or what?
a thread form
yeah msc has knook acme very cheap
the pressure angle is 29 degrees versus the standard 60 degrees
so you get less "wedging" force
ahh, so less friction
usually they are more precise too, just because of whatever
I see, easier to turn.
is it usually a special-order item, or should I be able to find it locally?
more of a catalog order
it would probably cost a lot more locally
enco or mcmaster or some such
yeah, I was browsing enco last night.
I opened the catalog for you...acme precision stuff is about $15 for 3 feet, depending
this is what i'm gonna be using http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=408-0220&PMPXNO=942694
its quite amazing how long it takes me to finish a project
that's within budget.
ach IE is frozen up
I could get 3 pieces, cut some off the Z to make a tap..
that might be a little skinny at 6 feet...
probably 3 feet max
too much whipping will kill the nuts and bearings and accuracy
I'm thinking I'll want about 10-12" of XY travel.
not too big.
ok i thought you meant like 4-5 feet
nah, I want to keep it under 2feet square, I dont have a ton of room.
and I mostly want to make small stuff.
5/8-5 would be about right
actually, I think I mostly want to make a mill, since I have no solid idea of what I want to use it for yet.
have you read the gingery series?
I haven't, what is that?
teaches you how to make a machine shop from scrap
* bill20r3 googles.
i built the lathe.. probably would work better if you started with the shaper
it's worthwhile reading?
I get about 30 bucks for 5/8-5 6 feet .0009 lead ac.
hmm.. i learned a lot building the lathe..
55 for .003
knowing how to cast stuff is pretty powerful
he teaches a lot of really basic stuff that you cant just look up
well, now that we have the internet its a lot easier to look this kind of stuff up
but most people wouldnt admit they dont know how
like how to drill a hole for instance
I dont know a lot.
they have the gingery milling machine book on amazon for $9.95
* bill20r3 orders
fenn, how did your homebuilt lathe turn out?
better than no lathe, that's for sure
you really need to get the whole series
dont get it from amazon
go to lindsaybks.com
they had it at my library
well, the drill press book kinda sucks
I have amazon-prime, so I get free shipping.
do you have any power tools already?
mini lathe, micro mill...
most common hand tools.
ah building a mill should be easy then :)
yeah, I'm not ill-equiped, except for the knowledge part.
I was planning to convert the micromill, but I dont want to disable it for manuall operation
have you taken any classes?
like machine shop 101 or whatever
I looked, but the locak school district didn't really have anything available.
well there was this really neat "how to use manual machine tools" page but it went down
so i put up an archive i had of it
[17:47:34] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/~chrish/techindx.htm
I have "Home Machinists Handbook" on the way, too.
I think you could eek in a 12x12 x4 xyz with linear ball rails for about 500
excluding tronics and stuff
*cough* you mean the expensive parts..
I have motors allready.
its just the drivers/rails that are gonna cost me.
so moving table....let's see
* giacus_afk play Carradine, Keith - I'm Easy.mp3
a little overhang
I was thinking of the table on one axis, and a gantry with the spindle on the other axis
I get about $250 for rails
giacus_afk is now known as giacus
that kills it for you
but I dont really have any good reason for planing it that way.
gantries usually cost more
[17:51:26] <fenn> http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/articles/030303.html
<- like this?
yeah we have about 600 for x and y using linear rail/4140 acme
you mean compared to having the X and Y movement in the table?
* fenn likes that design for some reason
most gantry router designs look like they're gonna flop all over the place - and they do!
so the alternative is to have a solid spindle mount, and XY the table?
dual screws and very stiff construction is required
is it still called a 'gantry' if it's fixed? (except for the Z)
i think the vertical column construction is worse than the gantry style as far as rigidity
like a micromill for instance.. yeesh
but do go fixed z moving table for sure
I've seen designs where the gantry slides over the table, and some where the table slides under the gantry.
much easier for you
seems like having the table move would be tighter.
les what do you think of the design in the link i posted?
since you're not schlepping around this top-heavy assembly
what about motorizing a cheap pre-made XY table?
or are the tollerances too loose on those?
why not just motorize your mini mill?
its practically the same thing
because I need a mill to do it with. :-)
uh, but you've got a mill right there..
no good reason, really.
all the mill-conversion pages make it look like it's some super-precision job, and I'm kind of afraid of screwing it up.
i can do it in 2 hours
have you done it?
drill some wood, clamp some hose clamps - kablam
i have the most ghetto cnc mill ever
[18:06:00] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0327.JPG
[18:06:10] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0329.JPG
i could take more but i'm embarrassed
are those drawer slides?
the simplest way to get a thing its always the best
GD&T is lame
those are rollerblade bearings on gas pipe
fenn, what're you making with it, besides example-penguins?
well, nothing really, because there's no free cam software
yeah, there is that.
i was screwing around with (jepler's ?) img to gcode program, but it doesnt do tool compensation so not very useful
i know how to make a better one, i should just do it
we are buying a 5k version of MasterCam
neat ABC table. http://tinyurl.com/bad32
sed_: why doesn't your "engineer" know how to do normal shop drawings?
gd&t is like metrology or inspection type stuff
cuz she came from Areospace...
or outerspace... whichever
as far as I can tell there are not many machine shops out there that practice GD&T
it seems like a good idea if everyone is on board, but to learn new shit just to make simple parts is kind of retarded
IBM tried to push UML on pleople back in 95... it didnt work for the same reason
* fenn cackles
bill20r3 is now known as bill2or3
They dont want me to learn G-Code, (cuz she dosent) because MasterCam will write it all for me....
Ibm are blank collars
white collars arent hackers
bill20r3 you work in optics??
ibm sucks, but no one ever got fired for recomending IBM
and they use Linux... so not all that bad
not at all
depend on waht you mean as 'Linux'
I come from the Unix world, I could go on and on about what I meand as 'Linux'
no sed, I work for an ISP, my interest in cnc is just hobbiest.
its funney how Linux/Beowolf took over IBM
Linus is a looser
sed_: who is having a say in what you are allowed to learn anyway?
keep in mind
bill2or3 what do you do for the isp?
i must've been a sysadmin in a previous life
did yo udo something bad in the life before that?
well before that i was a pointy-haired-boss :)
fenn the new "Engineer" we hired, she used to be a CNC machinist, but she never wrote G-code, dosent understand AutoCad. and suggested we buy a 21" lathe for making small parts....
sed, so she just clicks the "start" button a lot?
damn wish i had that job
could write a script to do it for me :)
couldnt take the cad drawings the old machinist left for building our telescopes from cad to solid works
she re built all of them from .bmp images in solid works.
maybe she only knows "Start", and was never trained on "Import".
she claims AutoCad did not have enough information about the parts
Although I have already built the entire production run of parts from the autocad drawings and we wont be building any more.
I dont know AutoCad at all, but I know "Stupid" when i see it...
bill20r3 I have built a couple of ISP's and have worked as a network admin.
in 2005 ?
sed_, can you get me a good deal on about 100 OC48 or OC192 routers?
SWPaddons, not to long ago the local super computing center was paying 4.5k per month for a T3.. so no... I think not
no - I mean the hardware
oh yea.. um cant think of the name...
me either ;)
they were big on ATM
is cheap in the $1k range, $10k, or $100k each?
* giacus first provider was 14.400 modem connection in milan
giacus is now known as giacus_afk
110 baud - you insensitive clod
yep :P marconi
they had good FreeBSD suport
There is always ADC Kentrox... $$$$$$$$$
you had 110 baud?
yes, with a Tandy modem that you put the phone handsdet onto
those were cool
they used a high end variant of that on the movie war games
<--- owns protovision.com.
yep - the silver ones with the toggle switch for (something I can't remember)
if you flipped the switch fast enough you coud up the baud rate
we need one of those
it will go good with the 21" lathe for making watch parts
wasn't that the Hayes Smartmodem?
the modem can speak GD&T to solid works and make the part with no G-Code
extruded aluminum case?
I'm not sure Hayes was around in the 110 baud days
from 300 on, they were
I had an Atari with 300 baud, it was bad ass
* bill2or3 tries to remember.
my first terminal was actuall a Brother electronic typewriter.
printed out stuff from bbs's. (built in scrollback!)
my first computer was a Timex Sinclair 1000
what about using the shafts from car shock absorbers for rails? are they precision ground straight?
sed, you win.
mine was an atari.
I was the state rep for Atari
poor atari. :-(
if Nolen Bushnell got people to accept the name to mean computer and not games.. he would have ruled
his product fary exceeded IBM and Apple
my boss here has a Computer Space game that he got Nolan to sign across the side.
it's his pride & joy.
if only I could have afforded a TT030 - sigh
anyone have an opinion on my shock-absorber-shaft-linear-rail idea?
to this day I would like to konw what AtariWriter on a ROM cartrage couldnt do that WordStar and a 3' stack of manuals couldnt..
err - show multiple fonts simultaneously with graphics?
multiple fonts are overrated.
heh - well, AtariWriter couldn't do that
I dont remember if either could
to get a different font you just replace the daisy wheel
I had an extremely cool daisy-wheel printer that would autoload (it held a full ream of paper)
the 630, I believe
no, I think it was IBM
we took a tour of the IBM plant here when I was in high school
they had a line printer that was laser-dried, and could print as fast as I could run
I have a good one, my friend worked at a university on a vax which had a changetape command that didnt always work, one day across campus he saw a dude working at a terminal get up when a bell sounded to change a tape. he was informed thats how hte changetape command worked.
that and a hard drive that came with a box of metal filings for data recovery..
back before the read head was invented huh
giacus_afk is now known as giacus
Hi fenn Thanks for the test of the config stuff the other day.
nice to meet you :)
do you remember ?
mmh .. ok
I was Jacky^
now Jacky^ rip ..
Okay. That works for me.
rayh: they sayd was a female nick :(
so I changed it
just to be sure ..
I remember the name from the web stuff.
anyway Jacky' sayd to me to greetin rayh
you will never seen him here around :/
And greeting to you.
tell that to Jackie Gleason
Now there was a man's man.
found him, funny man
would this be suitable for use as a linear rail? http://tinyurl.com/9ty9n
I refused a dozen or so cookies. I wonder if they'll serve it to me.
* giacus tryng to understnd what it is
ebay auction for "
STARRETT 496 PRECISION FLAT STOCK 5/8" x 5/8" x 18" NEW"
how would you mount it to the frame?
my cousin yesterday talkedt to me about optical bars
maybe he founs cheaper bars
what's that ?
fenn, not sure, probablly tap it from one side and bolt it to a 1/4" plate of stainless
3/4 inch or 1.9 cm will sag if you put much weight on it.
how much is "much weight"
* bill2or3 thinks
I imagine there'd be like 30lbs or so, with the 'Y' table and the workpiece
the 3/4 by 1/14 would be much stronger but twice the price
I could use a support every 6" or so.
like little pillars.
typ0ing 101 again
how thick do you think I'd need to avoid sag?
So the Y table would sit down on it with bearings on three sides.
maybe make one of the side bearings adjustable, and the other one spring-loaded.
Sure that should work well.
I guess I could stick a dti under it mid-span and see if it's sagging, then add supports as needed.
do I need to worry about using specific grade bearings, or should most be fine?
The thompson rail I've got here is about that size and mounts every 2.5 inches
how long is it?
and how heavy is it's payload?
I wouldn't worry about grade. But you ought to ask les
I guess there's no need to elevate it really, just attach right to the base.
800 lb or so.
oh, heh, I'm looking at like 10lbs max
rayh: are you familiar with plasma cutter ?
Just a bit.
my cuosin would build one
bill2or3: weight is the least of your worries.. cutting forces even for frozen snot (mdf) are in the hundreds of pounds
I will take some pic of his equipement in the next days
ahh, gotcha, so I should be more concerned with X and Y forces than "Z" ?
I need some help about it
you should be more concerned with rigidity than accuracy
giacus: Good I'd like to see the machine
i.e. a 3" pipe would probably be better
what kind of help do you need?
aahh, so I'm obsessing on "flat" when I should worry more about "stiff"
bdi has a FP bootspalsh with a progress meter, doens't it?
you cant get any accuracy if the machine is wobbling all over the place
thanks for explaining, I'd hate to go all out on the wrong attributes.
rayh: according to robin discussion, we would like to build a cnc-plasma-cutter using stepper motors
so like 1" rails bolted straight to a sheet of 1/4 stainless should be pretty good.
bill2or3: what you're really after is "dynamic stiffness" which means you take into account the resonant damping (or lack of it) in your materials
I will disturb you later .. :)
* bill2or3 googles for "resonant damping"
hmmm pretty sparse results on google for that particular magic phrase
you knw what resonance is, and what damping is, right?
well they're opposites of each other..
more damping = less resonance
yeah, but I'm not %100 clear on how they go together in this context
you mean the wiggle you're going to get from the interaction between the cutting bit and the workpiece?
and how resistant your base is to developing resonance (ie: increased wiggle) due to that?
well the whole machine has to be resistant to vibration
I suspect I'm overthinking this, and I should just get some fat pipe and skate bearings. :-|
and that resistance comes from rigidity, correct?
you will need to think about it eventually
dynamic damping can be improved by lots of different things
so do you think a 1/4" plate is stiff enough for a base?
or should I go thicker?
i would go with steel tubes filled with sand/clay or concrete
I mean for the base that they're bolted to.
the plate, the piece that the rails are attached to.
here's a nice page les wrote: http://www.lmwatts.com/straightedge.html
I bet that's gonna be expen$ive
nah it doesnt get much cheaper than that actually
unless you make your own level or something..
* bill2or3 reads.
I mean that a 2foos square sheet of 1/4 stainless probablly isnt cheap.
at least compared to the aluminum I usually get for stuff
you wouldnt want to use stainless anyway
it's a pita to work with
yeah, I tried to cut some for a stirling I'm working on, got about 1/4" before I decided that alu was good enough.
you think just regular non-stainless steel? (alu is to flexy, right?)
aluminum is a very resonant material.. regular steel is a little better but not a whole lot
but steel is twice as stiff as al
better than steel would be cast iron, and better than that would be polymer concrete
and then maybe granite with viscoelastic shear layer :)
anyway steel is more than good enough for a wood router
filling the tubes with sand/oil helps to dissipate the energy in the vibrations
and adds mass
does cast iron tap well?
which lowers the resonant frequency
yeah cast iron is nice to work with, but its dirty
its self lubricating so tapping is easy
I'm building something for metal, not for wood.
oh, then you probably shouldnt call it a router.. (?)
or maybe i'm just confused
did I? my bad.
yeah, I want to mill/engrave.
wood is for sissies. :-)
everything has its proper use
wood is kinda like tough styrofoam
this page refers to a "small surface plate", is that just a piece of metal that's known to be flat?
so, with metal cutting you're going to have to worry a lot more about vibration and rigidity
a surface plate is a 2" thick granite tile
and they're very flat
some surface plates are cast iron.. they have grooves in them which are good for scraping off blueing dye
you might want to have a look at my wiki if you are going to be building machines from scratch: http://www1.atwiki.com/gingery_machines/
[19:50:12] <bill2or3> http://cgi.ebay.com/SURFACE-PLATE-MACHINISTS-GAGE-STAND-TOOLING_W0QQitemZ7586990109QQcategoryZ58247QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
* bill2or3 adds wiki to his mill-bookmarks file
i'd go with enco.. you get free shipping if you spend over $50.. (need a coupon though)
I'm sure I'l spend >$50 a couple of times over. :-)
yeppers.. get a couple boxes of hex socket cap screws while you're at it
we have a decent fastener store here.
though enco is probablly cheaper.
one thing i learned is not to skimp on fasteners
yeah, cheap fasteners are nothing but heartache.
oh and get spiral thread taps
for some reason they are more accurate and that means they are much easier to turn
who's in charge of linuxcnc.org ?
Hey what's up.
"who's in charge of linuxcnc.org ?"
64 bytes from 220.127.116.11: icmp_seq=0 ttl=245 time=339.0 ms
Steve Stallings is the webmaster
the EMC board is in charge of content.
rayh By chance you interested in some hosting for linuxcnc.org for $60/YEAR 1200MB storage and 25000MB traffic/month ?
64 bytes from rayh icmp_seq=0 ttl=245 time=339.0 ms
I own the site name for a couple more years.
Where is the site located?
rayh no, my hosts, but I trust him, and thats a hard thing for me to do. He's a good ole boy too =)
Jymmm: how much for a year ?
rayh hes' running a special double up for the top 3 pkgs
I'll copy this to the board list and we'll see what shakes out.
rayh be sure to read "Grand Opening Limited Time Double Up Offer!" on the same page.
rayh: I only mention it because I know someone that's trying to download an ISO and it's v e r y s l o w
I didn't think we had an ISO on the linuxcnc.org site itself.
rayh you could now =)
Jymmm: 25G is not very many ISO downloads
you don't get many different ISOs in 1200MB either
For a while, the sherline site was serving about 1/2 tb per month of emc stuff.
maybe I could put in a good word for mirroring it..
* bill2or3 thinks
I certainly wouldn't want to pay for that much.
no way - go to http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cig?swpadnos
no way - go to http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?swpadnos
* fenn snickers
how big is it, and how much transfer(in gigs) does it do monthly?
ray oh, ok. np then, just a thought is all.
these people offer a lot of storage (20GB in the bottom plan) and bandwidth (1TB in the bottom plan) but they're very slow running my CGI scripts: http://www.dreamhost.com/shared/comparison.html
they seem OK to me, but I have no content on my sites
cncgear is hosted on dreamhost
The linuxcnc server itself is small.
real-world performance seems to be about 200 KB/s downloading large static files on a cable modem
jepler %60/mo vs $60/year is a BIG diff though =)
yep - same for me on DSL
SWPadnos: know any cheap/fast jpeg compression chips?
Jymmm: 2-year plan is $7.95/month, more like
mirrors.xmission.com <--- here.
Jymmm: and I got the first year for $30, so I'm giving them a try...
jepler: it's all good.
$16/mo, 2-year prepay, 60G storage, 1.6 TB transfer, free domain name, tons of email, and they just added subversion to the goodies list
well, the cheapest on 5under5.com is $0.99/month
SWPadnos: if you want to try it out, sign up with the code "DMH"; at least when I signed up, it gave 93% off the first year. http://forevergeek.com/geek_resources/dreamhost_promo_codes.php
40M - you can barely fit DSL in that ;)
SWPadnos: but like I said, it's very slow running my CGI scripts, so I'm not thrilled with them.
I've already signed up
SWPadnos it's not for your porn collection silly!
cncgear.com is there
Jymmm: you lead off by talking about a slow .ISO image download, didn't you?
SWPadnos: oh, I didn't know.
damn - I wish I had known about that before :)
SWPadnos oh cncgear is yours?
SWPadnos lol, that's the V E R Y S L O W iso dl!
the thing I like about dreamhost is that they always upgrade you to the best deal they offer
they've upped my storage and transfer 3 times already
plus I get extra weekly (it goes up by about 1% per week)
what kind of sped are you getting?
Jymmm: what speed are you calling "V E R Y S L O W"? I measured 200 MB/s downloading 2-megabyte jpegs
Jymmm: and that's on some burger joint's free wireless
200 KBytes, no?
OC48 wifi huh jepler?
200M/sec would be fast indeed
er, right, 200 KB/s
that's what I get as well, but I'm on 2Mbit DSL, so that's my expected cap
Jymmm, off Dreamhost?
jepler 200 Kb/s not 200KB/s
SWPadnos whereever cncgear is hosted
that's unuusually slow. can you get faster rates from other places right now? (like kernel.org or something)
SWPadnos I'm not dlong, someone else is.
Jymmm: I meant 200 kilobytes per second
oh - who, and where?
though right now wget of http://cncgear.com/EMC/BDI/bdi-4.38.iso
is varying between 50 and 100 K/s as reported by wget
1% ega 2:07:55
1% ETA 2:07
yeah - EGA is so old hat ;)
strange - I'm well over 130kB/sec, and still climbing
little b is bits, big B is bytes
168 kBytes/sec now
does it actaully say BYTES?
about 1 hour left, after 2min 38 sec
mozilla, 173 kB/sec, and I'm looking at the total transferred as well
SWPadnos you on cable?
yep 170kB is about normal for dsl
this is slower than normal, but not dreadfully slow
the 180 kB/sec (now) is an overall average, including the first few seconds when it was setting up the transfer
this transfer rate is comparable to a self-hosted server on a T1 line
Jymmm, can you fo a traceroute to cncgear?
I figured it'd be low, they're in LA
how many hops?
ok - same for me, but I've got a 111ms ping time
7 of which are on the ATM cloud
I don't get out of my ISP for 3 or 4 hops
I only have about 40 ft of copper, and the rest is all fiber.
what's your connection?
failed to surprise k4ts :(
21:32 [k4ts(n=K4ts@18.104.22.168)] hey giacus
21:33 [k4ts(n=K4ts@22.214.171.124)] ah ah
21:33 [k4ts(n=K4ts@126.96.36.199)] tanto vedono il tuo ip
hi k4ts, did you hear jacky died?
k4ts: how you seen my IP ?
I'm using ipv7 ..
ok ok .. yu win
giacus you suck as a SysAdmin hiding
k4ts: serach paura in the dictionary please ..
and tell me
no serach seacrh
Jymmm: you can fear what you don't know ..
I know Internet :)
I do not fear it ..
lets scan k4ts IP ...
nmap -everthing-I-think- ..now
I go to sing
k4ts: Jacky's gone ..
platalk ? :P
ok, lets go in paltalk :D
singing in paltalk?
running the laptop ..
I do not have windows in my wk :/
ach I have a problem...must reboot
k4ts: are you ready for 4 mb dsl ?
yes singingeh giacus<?
_ ___ _
| | / _ \ | |
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does my XY travel have to be square, or can I make Y twice as long as X?
and have most CAM deal with that gracefully?
non-square tables are the rule rather than the exception
there are no restrictions on that
a bridgeport has a table that's 9x42 inches (or even wider)
travel is 24-30 in X, and 12-16 in Y
(not 2:1 either)
k, I'm just trying to decide what dimensions to use.
usually X is the long dimension because one stands in front of the machine
I want to be able to work stuff about 10" square, but a few extra inches on one axis would be nice.
so my workpiece size limit per-axis is the rail-length minus the spacing between the outer edges of the rail-bearings, correct?
looking at a mill w/ a gantry is the dimension that runs parallel to the gantry X or Y?
mine is y
but what's in a name?
but there's not a generally accepted convention for it?
ok, so I'm thinking a 24" rails running "Y" with a 12" table.
the gantry itself usually moves in X, the head moves in Y, and the vertical is Z, but it really doesn't matter
that'll give me a 12" work area without moving the piece.
you need to be sure that it's a right-hand coordinate system though
ok padnos, that's what I needed to know.
do the bearings that the table is riding on need to be at the very outer edge of the table?
or can you move them in a bit and get a bit more travel.
I suppose if you're gonna do that you may as well just use a smaller table.
* bill2or3 thinks aloud.
no you can have some overhang
is there a formula, or just little enough that it wont tip?
well heh i do FEM analysis on the structures
depends on what you want to cut
ok. (I have no idea what that means)
how about a 12" table with an inch on each end of the "y" (perpindicular to gantry), does that sound reasonable?
I want to cut metal.
yeah sounds ok
k, so that'll give me a working area of 12*14 inches.
should be plenty.
on 24" rails.
understand this would be a light duty machine
yes, of course.
12x14 metal cutting could easily be 1000 pounds of iron
I dont plan on making any engine blocks.
you can do aluminum and such
maybe some small RC heli parts, decorative badges for my vespa, stuff like that.
would do that fine
aluminum, brass, plastic, wood, no steel or iron.
free cutting steel is actually not bad
well I use 12l14 for most stuff that isn't structural or to be welded
but it does require higher forces in general than 6061 or something
the aluminum and such on this 12x14 would be high rpm low chipload
but can be done with a lighter structure
* fenn goes back to his hexapod schemes..
i am wondering how much flex i'll get in delrin anti backlash nuts
since basically all the cutting force is aimed right at the nut
oh not much if the nut is long
how long? like 2-3x diameter?
couple pitch diameters and it can be pretty stiff
it's in almost pure shear
les the room is: Italia col cuore e con la musica noi ce la faremo! I'm velenus
ok I'll go in thanks
* fenn goes to bed
G night fenn
rayh is now known as rayh_away
anyone used these drivers? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584951843
* jepler looks
I know someone else on the channel has asked about these
I know everyone loves geckos, but they are $$$$$
try these, for cheap but possibly good drivers: http://www.sxlist.com/techref/io/stepper/linistep/index.htm
also 35V, and no, I've never used them
open source though, so that's good (both the hardware and the software)
bill2or3 I bought Xylotex, but if I knew then, what I know now, I would have bought Geckos
see - and Jymmm is a cheapskate
I dont understand why the drivers all want so many more times voltage than the stepper motor uses
err - budget minded person
so they can go faster
bill2or3 If for nothing else other than the anti-stall factor.
so are they being driven at more volts than they're spec'd for?
bill2or3 you run steppers at 20 to 25 times their rated voltage.
I did not know that.
yes - voltage doesn't kill the motors until you get very high - it's current that kills
bill2or3: Steppers are inductors. The current rise time is important, otherwise you have less power at high step rates.
but the choppers are current-limited, so they don't kill the motors
ahh, so you're actually running them at whatever voltage your powersupply outputs?
bill2or3 read this --> http://www.geckodrive.com/photos/Step_motor_basics.pdf
yes, but no higher than the rated current
bill2or3: A "chopped" supply with high voltage gives you fast current rise time while obeying to power limit of the stepper
heh, that's on my screen at home.
well, read it, then come back and ask questions ;)
yeah, I opened it at like 2:30 am, so I didnt exactly comprehend it so well.
SWPadnos: know anybody who's actually used linistepper? I'm put off by this picture of the boards with their heatsinks: http://www.sxlist.com/images/member/RB-ezy-Q33/jelly01.jpg
it is a homebrew-centered kit
that's a big-ass sink
I don't know anyone who uses them, but I saw them on eBay when I was first looking at servos/steppers
$75 for 3 is cheap, for sure.
bill2or3 what kind of machine?
if you can fabricate the PCBs, consider http://www.pminmo.com/l297-8/l297-8.htm
.. bipolar, up to 46V
heh - here's a nice CNC: http://www.sxlist.com/images/member/pele-balorda-com/Cnc.jpg
jymm, just a small DIY mill
bill2or3: Well, you could always move the geckos to another machine if you wanted to later on.
did you replace your xylotex?
heh - each gecko costs almost as much as the mill (or is it a bit more) :)
bill2or3 no, still using them, but once in a while I make Sailors blush.
my mill was like $240, so a gecko is a bit less.
bill2or3 When you have 3 days into a project, then get 99% completed and it stalls and you have to start over agian... there's gonna be a LOT of cussing goin on.
but I'll spend more than that on building a cnc one.
when you say stalls, do you mean it's not able to drive the motors because it cant pass enough power?
so you have to slow everything down?
no - so it screws up the part, because one of the axes stopped ...
if everything slowed down, there wouldn't be problems
(except for finish and prematre tool wear)
bill2or3 stall == pause one axis just long enough to destroy your work.
and that happens because your drivers are under-powered?
bill2or3 No, the nature of stepper motors, explained in the pdf link
k, I'll read that over until I understand it completely.
Living with Resonance
* bill2or3 reads.
the "Controlling resonance in the low-level drive circuitry" part is where the Gecko's excell?
bill2or3 geckos have circitry to prevent stalling.
stall ing is also called "Mid-Band Resonace" or "Mid-Band Instability"
is that something only they do, or is it a common feature?
only one I'm aware of that offers that.
so it soulds like everything else is a compromise.
what is the average cost to retrofit a small mill to CNC?
sed, I've been looking, and it varies a lot, but my best guess is somewhere in the $600-1000 area
can I leave the Acme screws in or is it a must to replace them?
what mill do you have?
well the one I would play with is a small POS Jet
standard grizzly/harborfreight type?
not quite harbor freight
I dont really know on the screws.
I'm just researching still, I haven't started work.
Although some harbor freight stuff is quite good
what have you decided for the motors?
I got some 282oz nema23's off ebay
PIC Servo makes a controller that will run three phase motors up to like 8 amps
and its serial
one small box will control 4 axis
or maby three, I forget
I got these ones: http://tinyurl.com/dzao6
what are you gong to drive them with?