* Jymmm wonders what those two are up to? lol
maybe they are taking pictures
Jymmm is now known as ImInNoMoodForBS
03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/emc/ (iotask/ioControl.cc task/emccanon.cc): aditional checking for spindle clock/counterclockwise opperation. if speed is 0, we have no way of telling what direction is used.
03alex_joni * 10emc2/scripts/emc.run: removed emc.run, the new runscript seems to fill in nicely
needed your expertise hte other day, but I managed finally ;)
if the spindle's stopped why does the direction matter?
well.. M3 with S0 starts the spindle
because it sends spindle_on
well.. it did..
Maybe M3 S0 should be an error instead
right now, it causes an error
that's my thinking too
though some without spindle speed control might use M3 S0
the direction is figured out based on the speed, which is signed
they should use S1
and maybe put that in startup G-codes if they are too lazy to code it properly
hey - whats up?
Can we do a private conversation ?
Something to talk about not on topic here...
yes, take it privately girls
Trying to figure out how to do that...
its /query nick
if both are registered
I am registered...
I have talked to robin - I really don't think I am registered
I have a window here between you and me skunk, not sure if you were queried though...
'dere you go, 'eh.
Nothing coming through from Skunk on the private channel so far...
I am getting your conversation - j
hold on let me see if I can set this computer as dmz
Try to query me...
If I try to chat with you all I get is Waiting for acknowledgement
give me a second
Try joining a new public group #prius ...maybe that will work...
you are trying to use dcc chat, which often doesn't work because of firewalls
Did that, he gets my text, but not visa versa...
how about using /msg
think I am there
you are here, not there
where is that waster Les then?
Yea Les much be out buying a car !
some huge V8 sled I guess
not that nasty plastic jap thing?
Nope...that s what I am getting...
there are few V8s worth having ...
427 fords ...
Anyway...trying to work out my Z column...do not know if this is a good time to yack about that, or if the software developers would like the channel...
I read once (in Machine Design magazine possibly?) that a smart engineer figured out how to make a V 8 sound like a I-4 ...
mmm ... most people actually like th V8 sound ...
With a new kind of exhaust system....and gained like 10 % fuel economy and torque....but they would not put it in production because there
was no-more V-8 growl...!
wb9mnj: the developers are in the emc-devel channel, go ahead and talk about your Z
Pontiac released a 4/8 for a while.
As some of you know my Z column motor can fry eggs...
literally, after about an hour of holding the head at some positions....no, its a servo system...
servos hate that sort of work ... on position, no movement
Motors available on E-bay are all too big , the same size or too small, or brushless, when I m using a brushed amplifier...
I presume you have a ballscrew ?
Yea,,,the same system ran the 3D-chips and the motor was only about 90 F afterwords...
would it be possible to counterbalance it?
Yes..so there is back-drive....
* robin_sz agrres with jmkasunich
a simple counterbalance ... spring or weight, will do it.
or just tighten up the Z gibs so the friction holds it and add a little I term
Welp...I ve planned all along to rework the drive to put bring that axis up to the 5K encoder on the screw, like the other two axis...right now its
a 250 on the motor, on the other side of the belt drive from the screw...
so you are goint to change the gearing?
or just the encoder
So, I have the oportunity to change the gearing...as the new encoder will be driven by a new custome made screw pulley...
Les recomended that...so I went off looking for motors too....
the simplest cure is a counterbalance
this is how its done on big iron
The motor I m using is a 2 inch diameter by 5 inch ferite magnet servo motor...with carbon brushes...
Its the brush end of the motor that gets nasty hot....
Probably will do the counterbalance too....
if the ballscrew is free-running, and the Z heavy .. most motors will fry
Yep...its free running within the zone that the motor controls it...It takes about 5 mils to bind ....and the motor/control loop never let it out of
+/- .0005 ...
Are there any different motors, brush types that may be good ? I came across Servo-Disk motors on Ebay....
Lots of the early mazaks had head balance using air. Lately they just use about 70% of z motor load to hold it up and a break when off.
They have allot more stall torque rating...
separate air over fan for z.
The current into the motor here, worse case is 3.6 amps static...
Ran the numbers on the various disk motors on Ebay, and the static current comes out like 4 amps min, with the largest ratio, I dare...
rayh: are these Mazaks quill machines like Rolands?
OK, what is desired Z speed in mm/minute?
So, this is running into the 10 amp PS some...
I get the impression that wb9's machine has a moving head, much heaver
what is ballscrew pitch?
No most have a full head that moves.
Its 240 in/min is the design target...
Its a .2 inch pitch...
so 1250 RPM ...
Yea...the head moves...its about 50 pounds....
and its a 3000rpm motor?
2:1 gearing is in order ;-)
* robin_sz nods
Its quite lively though,,, have done some peck drilling at 240 in/min lots of fun....
Yes, 2:1 at this time, and its a 2150 rpm nominal rating motor at this time...
wb9mjn: so you are geared down correctly ..
The disk motors can go to 6000, but the nominal is 3000...they say 6000 is practical, due to the low rotor inductance...
so there is ~ 1000N down force
some wire rope, a couple pulleys, and 50 lbs of scrap in a bucket
The gearing ratio uses the same parts as the original designer used....just turned the plate around and mounted the servo motor....
wb9mjn: and you are geared down so the shaft turns slower than the motor right?
4.48 N / lb....learned that in High School, playing with model rockets...hi..
The latest design for a disk motor would use about 3.9:1 and the motor would spin up to 4800 ....but still have more stall current....
Think the disk motor has poorer torque constants...must be the trade-off...does that jive ?
so ... you should only be seeingh about 0.1Nm of holding torque
The disk motor would be well within its stall rating....hmm should put the old motor/design in the spread sheet for the new design...see what
the over-rate is....
never really like disk motors . they wear out too qucik
The static troque overate with 2:1 is 65.1 oz in versus a rating of 42.0....
they are very low inductance too, so may need external L to make the driv happy
wow .. thats real low torque.
The disk motor has a 65 ozin rating....but with gearing it ll be even lower...
The torque on the screw was measured at twice that 65.1 ....
Ok. on that driver comment....
This is a hobby machine...hopefully the durability will be OK...
The present motor will be toast in a few months if I do not do something about it....I do have spares, but...
sounds like a stepper would be more suited
How long is the z travel?
That is what the original designer had...an NEMA 34 Stepper....1970's vintage....
but steppers have come a LOMG way since then
The Z travel can be as great as 12 inches, but with the new table under it, its about 8 max now....
I used a gas spring for the smithy. That was 12" travel.
a NEMA34 of modern desing would give 500 odd oz/in and upto 100 rpm no problem
Originally, why I did not do the gas spring, was I could not find one that was short enough with the travel needed...
But now, with the shorter travel, I may beable too...
We used a puller rather than pusher and put it beside the motor.
although the servo is a "better" option in most cases, in a case of a small motor, under static load, a stepper wins usually.
Hi Jacky....weighing my Z column problem options here....
A puller...hmmm...might need a hole in the cieling here...
Have to look at it...
I know a guy who put a bpt in the basement. To tall so put it under
the kitchen and built a center butcher block cutting table in kitchen where the mill head stuck up.
now that's a tollerant SO
Well she got a real butcher's block out of it!
Must be wierd though, cutting up pork-chops, and the table starts humming....
if the bport doesn't touch the ceiling or underside of the table, it won't vibrate any more than the floor does
Trying to finalize my Z drive rework plans....
Nope...but the sound would still eminate from the table...
Wonder if he had vents in the table for motor cooling ?
Ok...the spread sheet predict 7.8 amps for the standard servo motor at the overtoque safety factor I have in it...versus the 4 amps for the
Oops...did not update the torque constant...
rayh is now known as rayh-away
with the 36 volts it can do 2707 RPM, and a 2:1 drive allows a 270 in/min linear speed...
Spreadsheet says the ratio must be greater than 3.8 to avoid an overrateing of the continuous stall torque...
With a 3.9 ratio, the stall current would drop to 2.3 amps....
So, the issue is then if the 3.9 ratio is practical....the disk motor can handle the 3:1 ratio and not overrate, but the standard servo needs the 3.9
which means like a 3 inch pulley on the screw....
Both motors have about the same rotor inertia ...
Hmm...3:1 drive with disk motor requires 5.3 amps at stall...probably will have to do both the disk motor AND the 3.9 ratio....
To keep the current budget intact for the X and Y motors...
Learning allot with this thing...hi..!
modeling is dangerous. <grin>
Have 8 amps total....
at 48 volts....and the amplifiers are set to regulate at 36 volts...to help avoid any non-linear problems with supply droop...
Big difference in inductance...standard motor 4.6 mH, versus <.1 mH for the disk motor ...
good day gents...
Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
my linux box went DOWN hard last week
i'm thinkin' the overclocked AMD cooked the MOBO
03alex_joni * 10emc2/TODO: updated info, improved readability
03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_stg.c: updated info regarding credit for emc1
03alex_joni * 10emc2/docs/COPYING: removed file, as having 2 will likely make it harder to keep in sync. there is one in the topdir
03alex_joni * 10emc2/README: updated GPL/LGPL info, and the fact that only one COPYING in the topdir is enough
03alex_joni * 10emc2/debian/copyright: updated GPL/LGPL info
rayh-away is now known as rayh
any opinions on the "best" most current BDI install for a newbie like me ??
i must re-install a 4.2 Debian based system
Works fairly well here. I don't recommend that you upgrade from it though.
hello rayh... does it load up emc2??? or emc 1 with option for emc2
It loads BDI-emc
ok ..same as i had
but with proper setup accordding to the wiki page it can compile emc2
This seems to work well here.
the compile takes less than 2 minutes on my athalon64.
was it the basis for the mazak retro??
We started the mazak project with 4.20 but rebuilt with 4.30 this fall.
cool.. was it a nihgtmare rebuild??
rayh: did we re-install 4.30 in October? I thought the box was still running 4.20
No problems at all.
I thought we did when we got there.
I don't think so
but I've been wrong before.
and you got the t/c to go and all..
did a cvs update to get the latest emc2, but the distro is still 4.20
All of the EMC related stuff is from EMC2 rather than bdi.
yeah, I guess I wasn't clear... when I say "BDI" I mean the distro
I don't use the emc that is on the BDI
dmessier: What was your t/c concern?
the plc side of things
Okay. all of that was handled by hal and classicladder.
and handled very well IMO.
dmessier: depends on how you plan to upgrade
very well... my cudos to you and yours... that "was" the fumbling block to actively using emc as an option for big$$$ retro fits
the debian way apt-get update upgrade might leave you with a non-working system
but if you decide to reinstall from a new CD, that might be OK
although for emc2 you don't need that
i believe in wipe and start over...
I know nothing about the ability of 4.38 to compile emc2
rayh: I'm running 4.38 with emc2
pretty easy, took me about 10 minutes to run emc2
wiki covers it
there is another way to compile emc2 (than the way described on the wiki), but both work. so I wouldn't want to scare off newbies
Great. So it's three steps, Install bdi, add compile packages, compile emc2.
I didn't have to add anything, they were already there
No setup of any kind beyond the install?
but I heard some had to add packages (kernel-headers) so that's in the wiki aswell
rayh: the usual, sound & desktop :)
but emc2-wise no
Right. That is what I meand by the middle of the three.
on the install I did (I chose xfce instead of kde) I didn't have to add any other packages
My typing is getting worse.
although kde still got installed, and I had to remove it lateron
But the kernel source and all are other packages, are they not.
kernel source is not needed
headers is enough to build emc2 on 4.38
Headers are needed
are they in there?
sounds like a sweet distro
when you install or did you have to add them?
yes, and my install had headers already in the right place
Do you did NOT have to add anything except the emc2 source?
have a link to an image...
rayh: I only installed a custom version of the BDI, by chosing xfce instead of kde
I think that custom install caused the headers to get installed aswell
although I didn't do anything in that direction
I basicly ended up with a system ready for emc2
but I helped another user to get emc2 ready, and he didn't have the kernel headers nor the rtai-dev package
so I guess the standard install doesn't give you those
I can't explain it otherwise
We should get dmessier to do a plain install and see what's missing.
and what steps he has to take to get it going properly.
thats my plan i'll report back... once the machine is up and running
Fantastic. This stuff never quite seems to install the same way twice.
ok, I added all there is to know on the wiki, let me know (or better update the info there) if you discover any new things
data point: I chose the development system option on my 4.30 install - think I got the tools but not the kernel headers
That's good to know.
who has a clean distro image available???
you can find one on my mirror
I've tended to recommend that a new install not go online until after the box is setup.
[20:19:15] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/
use the apt-cdrom add and get the additional packages from it rather than from the web.
different box to burn cd's
dmessier: mon plesire
ou peut-etre 'ma plesire'?
live on puppy linux ... i'll try that on the laptop
ok, say back if it works
hrs 12 min ... d/l time.. im scared
btw I did try a puppy install to USB-stick and it works.
You've got to be somewhat careful about trying to move it from box to box.
42 Kb/Sec.... sucks for a dsl connection
alex utilize tu du fille de copre
dmessier: the box there should handle up to 100MBit
but I suspect there are a lot of hops on the way
you could traceroute and see where the times are getting bigger
i understand... no consern
its a small world ounce you've painted it once....
by default, the backup command will name the backup file <config><yymmdd>.tar.gz
hmm, probably ought to put hhmm on the end
people might use it to save a config prior to editing, and restore if the edits go badly
so more than one per day
use UTC ;)
ok, think I'll go to bed
nothing interesting going on right now :)
damn, year,month,day,hour,min is a darned long number
especially in nanoseconds
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
I'm not even using seconds
(I'm half serious)
% date +%s
just as long, and more obscure
is it just as long? hmm ok
if you have several of them, the filesystem will show the date and time anyway
not if they have the same name
yeah, just as long
jmkasunich: use some punctuation, they make it longer but readable
SWPadnos: it changes every second
but the "pick a saved config to restore" window will only show name
yes - that would
even better - "originalconfigname-20060122-2301
yeah, that's what I meant
I'm gonna drop the 20 from 2006
that makes it hard to read
(yeah, Y2K is over, and my head is firmly buried in the sand - so sue me)
how about '06
a couple of extra characters are no big deal. It makes sense to have the name be more readable
I agree 2006... is immediately recognizable as a date
SWPadnos: then it should really be "origconfig-2006.01.22-23:01.tar.gz"
but that's way long..
pity the guy who has to type that
I just did :)
but otoh, they won't normally type it, just click it in a listbox
it also makes the date format unambiguous (otherwise you have the "060504" problem)
IF the listbox is wide enough
I know some file browsers show origconf..tar.gz
the listbox will resize
(the tcl one anyway)
maybe drop the : I suggested
I kinda like 2006.01.22-16:06
I kinda like 2006.01.22-1606
right.. seems best
filenames with : in it seem iffy
. and - are common in filenames, : not so much
there might be systems which don't support them
good thinking ;)
and without the : it looks like military time 0600, 0430
I'm thinking I should use <config><datetime> as the default name but give the user the option to edit it
you're going to hate me for this but ...
I don't think any of this belongs in emc
he might want '<config>-before_i_fscked_with_it' or something
making backups, copying and renaming files, etc is a job of other programs
gnome/kde have guis for this already
it isn't in emc, it is in setupconfig.tcl ;-)
I know - this is for newbies
I know, but that doesn't change my opinion...
ok, user who is brand new to linux, and maybe even not very computer literate with doze
he has a problem, and you want him to send you his config
you want to walk him thru tarring it up
I guess you'd have to tell him what to type
after that, he'd know how
not unless he was taking notes
the true newbie would need to take notes to repeat the process wven with a GUI
- cradek - jepler showed me how to apply a patch to axis. I would have to ask how to do it agian.
I didn't take notes ;)
the worst way to get somebody to learn something is to walk them thru it
ok I shouldn't have brought this up
it's like having someone follow you in a car to a strange place - they focus on keeping up with you, not on noting the landmarks
cradek: nothing wrong with bringing it up, you make a good point
I like that analogy
well I knew everyone would disagree with me
jmkasunich: with gui apps. i love demos where some invisible hand takes over the mouse and keyboard and uses the software
cncuser: how about video tutorials?
alex_joni: are good, but with the interactive real programthing, one can stop do somthing on his own...
or look up some parameters in between
heh, I think you never met Aunt Tillie
or the tutorial can do something, then tell the student "ok, now you do the next one"
alex_joni: hehe, no i havent. but i recently tried a simple 3d modelling software. and it came with 10 or 15 tutorials, some where zou can lean back for 10 minutes and the show runs :)
i love it :)
i dont have tv :)
shaddup kids, tonight we're watching CAD tutorials
says fuzzy the wuzzy buzzword beaver
when i was zounger it didnt matter to me want was on tv. as long as i could stay up some more longer and watch. :)
ok.. and with that I go to bed
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[22:08:29] <Jacky^> http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2006/01/stanca_express.html#comments
Using paper to explain digital is like sending a letter by pony after the invention of the automobile.
FYI... If you have a gmail acnt, lets say email@example.com, you can add a 'suffix' of sorts that can be filtered later on. Example: firstname.lastname@example.org you can create a filter to automatically delete those messages, or email@example.com to flag those as important.
Great way to track who's selling your email address too.
This nickname is owned by someone else
If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
Jymmm did you just get that off slashdot?
[22:31:57] <fenn> http://slashdot.org/articles/06/01/22/1921241.shtml
someone just mentioned it in ##microcontrollers
the dot booboo, or the + thingy?
the dot booboo
[22:34:10] <Jymmm> http://groups.google.com/group/Gmail-Past-discussions/browse_thread/thread/e2247185d5aadf3b/1841cd64d4e02b41?q=plus+in+email+address&rnum=5#1841cd64d4e02b41
but they mention the + thingy in the comments
Well, maybe it change in the future, but I like it =)
+ seems so easy for spam harvesters to figure out
I'd prefer firstname.lastname@example.org though
i love how the email addresses in that article are all blanked out.. kinda hard to understand
the one you posted
in the grp posting? yeah and theyre wrong too
. doens't work
I just tested them both
and : is illegal
they all just say [email address]
probably have to sign in or something
well the brackets are a visual aid, not part of the syntax
automated filtering of email addys is a nice spam protection, except when the article is about email addys ;-)
lol too true
Since I control my domains, I have lots of dynamic emailaddresses
One job search place my gf signed up for years ago stated a no sellign your info policy. But we had set her up a dunamic address and caught thier asses in a bold lie and had proof even though they denied it.
maybe they played a semantics game
no it was for some finacial crap
"we didn't sell it, we gave it away" (to a partner company that sold it 2 seconds later)
haha thats a good one
jmkasunich maybe, but they still denied it and reported them to the BBB
jmkasunich you have your own domain dont you?
oh, ok, nm.
plain vanilla ISP, dynamic IP addy, no hosting allowed
(they give me 10M on their webserver for hosting)
03jmkasunich * 10emc2/tcl/bin/setupconfig.tcl: setupconfig.tcl 'backup' command now works, all thats left is the 'restore' command