I started work up again yesterday
taking a while to get my mind in gear
off now. though. I think I will play trivial pursuit in paltalk.
I do well if there are a lot of science questions
YEAH IT SURE IS!
guys vs gals in the game
guys all caps.
software is used to score. you have to type fast!
hi again alex_joni_
get the de.po sorted out?
yup.. mail is about to leave
I think it may have been my e-mail client that helpfully changed the encoding of that file
ok, as long as it wasn't gettext it's OK
sometimes I'm not sure I know what I'm doing, working with these .pot, .po, .mo files
you know, americans really don't worry about those kinds of things
like letters that aren't in ASCII, for instance, we just don't care.
lol.. but german stuff is in ASCII
I mean good old 7-bit ASCII. none of those them umlauts
that's too much :D
I know, I don't really see a need for upper case and lower case
and 31 control characters? what waste!
ok, hope it's ok...
running axis in german now ..
cool.. want me to help you run it? :D
Was "Override Limits" still not in the po file?
hang on, I'm looking
did you translate it?
it's still in english on my screen
7 bit ascii had upper and lower case.
msgid "Override Limits"
msgstr "Grenzwerte aufheben"
skunkworks: we know, yet we think of it as a waste of space
I think ASCII might be ok with 5-bit or 6-bit ;)
jepler: strange.. how does the rest look?
Hm .. I hadn't done a "cvs update" at home on axis, so I was missing some of the changes
now "Override Limits" translates to "None" !?
with the tooltip "Monentare Erlaubriss ... [L]" which I think is right
nope.. not right
Momentare Erlaubniss... is override limits
ahh.. ok ;)
* alex_joni_ is not thinking straight :(
msgid "Override Limits"
msgstr "Grenzwerte aufheben"
is that the right translation I just pasted?
I pasted that a few lines up too
oh yeah I see that now
talk about not thinking
join the club, we take new members every day
so the keys have different names in german? [Pos1], [Strg], etc?
just a few
my special thanks go to my keyboard there, as I wouldn't know those names otherwise :D
OK, the "Override Limits" problem is mine
I talk Ctrl and Home, not Strg and Pos1 ;)
now it says Greenich Mean Time or whatever it is
ahh.. it works?
it's right now, and the mistake was mine
post a pic ;)
jasmin & lillies?
[01:47:40] <jepler> http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/01136301942/axis-de.png
jas = "just a second"
missed a few texts :)
Position: Relative Actual
oh, and can you fix one thing that doesn't look righ to me?
msgid "Feed Override (%):"
msgstr "Geschwindigkeit �bersteuerung (%):"
make that "Geschwindigkeits �bersteuerung (%):"
aka.. add an 's'
I think I can handle that
darn USB... don't like it anymore
oh man, this sounds so sick in german: "Dabei sind Zeiger eine spezielle Art von Referenz, bei der die R�ckgewinnung der Variablen aus der Referenz durch eine Dereferenzierungsoperation erfolgt."
alex_joni_: can you translate these for me? "Position" "Relative" "Actual" "Machine" "Commanded"
Position, Relativ, Aktuell, Maschine, Befohlen
I updated the screenshot again
love the tooltip ;)
looks great overall
there are still things that aren't translated
looks like all the menus and some of the tooltips are not
maybe if you open a program too.. it'll look just swell
"Top view" etc
that's not in .po yet
every menu item with spaces is not translated
yeah, I think I have to quarrel with gettext again
In strings like "_Open" do you understand that it means "O" will be shown underlined in the menu?
I did a few menus back in the days ;)
didn't change the [xx] though
So you meant to make "f" be underlined in "O_ffnen"?
that seems to be a standard amongst german programs
as � is somehow strange to use on a menu ;)
oh .. I never thought of that
I figured you'd just type O
well yes, but that makes it hard for people with different keyboards to use
imagine AXIS ends up on a PC misconfigured with DE locale, yet EN keyboard
you'd still want them to be able to use it :P
even if they don't understand any of the things written there (lol)
cradek has installed the japanese version of windows before...
there's tkemc in japanese :P
ask fenn he might do AXIS in japanese :)
what did cradek install that for anyways?
At work, there's a fellow translating our software's manual, and eventually our software, into japanese. We hope to enter the japanese market. someday.
ok, then you can with AXIS too :P
try downloading the po file from viewcvs and see if the encoding is right: http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/axis/i18n/de.po?rev=1.4;content-type=text%2Fplain
I used some CAD once that was in japanese..
and then you can fill in the new strings...
more strings? :(
jepler: kidding ;)
actually in a way I view AXIS as practice for this task at work .. because I will be the one doing the translation infrastructure, and I intend to use the GNU gettext suite for working with .po/.pot files
(though we have our own alternative format instead of .mo, because the gettext library itself seems to be GPL so we can't use it)
but enough about my day job, I don't like talking about it too much
do you want to update the de.po once more tonight, or should I make a new screenshot with a file loaded and call it good for the moment?
hang on, I'll finish soon
you can then make the screenshot.. ok?
Hm .. "ON" "OFF" "ESTOP RESET" aren't in the catalog, are they?
er, ON ESTOP "ESTOP RESET" I guess they are
didn't see them before
please translate these too: http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/axis/i18n/de.po.diff?r1=1.4;r2=1.5
I hope I've caught most of the strings by now
maybe you have an ngc-file that would be intersting to show in the screenshot?
don't think so :(
I don't have many ngc files :D
use Chips or something
I'm sure everybody's tired of seeing my circuit boards in the screenshots
<whispers> I don't really use emc much </whispers>
but don't tell everyone :D
tell everyone what?
Jymmm: nothing :)
jepler: it might be more of help if you enter new strings as "", not already pseudo-translated
alex_joni_: I think gettext (msgmerge) is doing that automatically
msgid "Toggle _Emergency Stop"
msgstr "Not Aus Ã¤ndern [F1]"
you mean like this one?
because it does a lousy job..
-N, --no-fuzzy-matching do not use fuzzy matching
maybe I need to use this
it also does this:
msgid "Attempt to raise negative number to non-integer power"
"Versuch eine negative Zahl mit einem nicht-ganzzahligem Wert zu potenzieren"
wow... there's everyone!
hi zwisk, long time
yeah, it is a very clever piece of software.. I guess
--no-wrap do not break long message lines, longer than
the output page width, into several lines
Jepler... just the guy I should ask about axis/emc2 things...
jepler: think that string moved to the next line still works ?
zwisk: I'm still not an emc2 user
really? oh... hmm...
zwisk: you cought him.. (on AXIS at least)
alex_joni_: yes, it still works just fine formatted like that
well, if you type this into a program and load it into axis, does it give you a weird error?
zwisk: I only run emc1/simulator + axos
ok, then I'll stop correcting those
G42 D2 F9 G1Z.1
how weird is weird?
I can do that in MDI, no problem, but if I load it as a program, it tells me the D2 needs a G42 or G41 command... which... well... is right ther.e..
(not that weird I guess..)
zwisk: here (emc1/simulator) the program ran just fine after I added M2 as the next line
hmm... interesting... perhaps its and emc2 problem.
(I'm not running emc1 anymore..)
zwisk: just in case AXIS isn't picking up an interpreter change in emc2, "rm -rf build" in the axis source directory, then "setup.py install" again.
zwisk: if you use a different front end and run or verify the program, do you get the same error?
I'll try that next...
(But axis is so cool I don't wanna run any other front end! :P)
jepler: relax, it's probably not axis related :)
probably right... it
zwisk: that's nice of you to say..
hey, thanks for the compliment
probably is emc2 related.
zwisk: might be ;)
zwisk: how is everything?
we have been finding a few odd interp problems
there's been that christmas/new years thing keeping me all to busy.
heh, we know it just too well
lots of family and friends visiting. SO... good, I guess is the short answer.
nice to hear
well here's an interesting development. I just tried to load "isd.ngc" and I got an error in illegible german about "ohne Angabe von G41 oder G42" which I think is the message we were just talking about ...
how was your break, alex_joni?
jepler, that sounds like a german translation of my error (or dutch?) :P
alex and I are just working on translating AXIS into other languages
as you may have seen in your scrollback
alex_joni: yeah.... time off around the hollidays... (You got some, right?)
zwisk: still am there..
I don't see any D words there!
but it seems I'm busy doing emc stuff up to 6-7am
jepler: check previous line
ah, there it is
Error reporting is a bit less than perfect in all of emc...
in this case maybe the error is correct, I don't see any G41 or G42 here
hmm... is it possible the G41/42 is being dropped someplace?
jepler: no D in the emc2 version of cds.ngc
oh.. you said isd.ngc :(
* alex_joni_ rejoins his own club
two places where G41 seems to be missing..
zwisk: but in that case they actually don't exist in the file..
not that they are there but don't get regarded
hmm... maybe my version of emc2 is outdated... actually, it very likely is...
oh.. if it's a few days old it's outdated :)
that's what I like about emc1 -- it may be outdated, but until emc2 has a simulator I don't have to do anything about it.
oohh... yeah... a configuration editor. There has been some new work done!
not really editor, but picker
a few things have happend
hmm... ok... picker. Time to go figure out how to get an initial config to pick.
including procedures in the interpreter
click RUN, and choose one
I don't have any to choose... (empty box)
you need to cvs up, emc2/configs too
configs have been very reorganized..
they are each in one dir now
boy... I can't leave you guys alone for a minute, can I?! :) (Actually it's great to see so much work being done!)
zwisk: that's only the tip of the iceberg ;)
quite a few bugs closed too
yeah, I noticed that in my email! :)
board is moving nicely too
zwisk: what kernel & RT do you run?
Right now I'm running 188.8.131.52-magma #1 on debian
no 2.4 around?
Erm... yeah, I think I have a redhat 2.4 around, though I haven't booted it a long while...
we want to release a final version of emc1
and could need some testing..
I have 2.4.27-1.0.rtai but I don't have a machine hooked up to that...
[02:49:58] <jepler> http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/01136301942/axis-de.png
well if you can try it out (compiling at least), here it is: http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/~emc/emc-1.2.0-rc1.src.tgz
* alex_joni_ likes that snapshot ;)
I'll try it in kernel 2.6 + simulator
if that's supposed to be a supported configuration..
hrmm.. can't remember if sim.ini is supplied, but it should be supported
yes, it's there
hey that isn't english - is stop stop in german?
no that's in romanian actually
is stop - stop in romanian?
stop is universal
except for french Arret
jepler: offset too
but I thought it's better not to duplicate it
maybe someone comes up with a better translation (although I doubt it ;)
alex_joni_: for emc-1.2.0-rc1, I used "make -C rcslib/src PLAT=linux_2_4_22; make -C emc/src PLAT=linux_2_4_22" and then in emc/ I did "env PLAT=linux_2_4_20 ./sim.run -ini sim.ini". tkemc comes up.
I can jog, and I can start running 3d_Chips
great, thanks a lot
er, "env PLAT=linux_2_4_22" in the last command
I'm not sure what PLAT string is most correct, but that's the one I used before
* alex_joni_ whispers again
wanna know a secret?
it doesn't really matter :D
as long there is a rcslib/etc/foo.def there, most likely PLAT=foo will work (exept mixing rtlinux with rtai or such major stuff)
jepler: care to test one more thing for me to be really happy?
alex_joni_: OK sure
then use PLAT=nonrealtime && PLAT=realtime
well.. no realtime in your case..
"checking for RT dir..." and then the hard drive melts
but now that I think of it configure will most likely fail
I'll send you a new one
oh that didn't take as long as I expected
checking for RT dir... configure: error: RT not found, try to specify one by --with-rtai=<path>, --with-rtlinux=<path>, --with-rtlinuxpro=<path>
or something to make it shutup ;)
configure: error: RTAIDIR=/tmp specified, but neither rtai-config \(RTAI-3.x\) nor realtime-config \(rtai-24.1.x\) found. Check your RTAI install
darn.. I'm too smart for myself :(
./configure --without-realtime ?
(doesn't do anything)
right .. that's whishfull thinking
the ./configure is taken over from emc2
so no support for non-RT systems, forget I asked
AXIS works with it
at least it starts up
Whats the diff between an arc and a bezier?
Jymmm: an arc is a portion of a circle. a bezier is not a conic section at all.
[03:16:12] <jepler> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ConicSection.html
a slice of a teepee = a conic
the result of intersecting a plane and two cones
Jymmm: an arc is a predefined form
a bezier is a line (polinomial) defined by control points
actually "[T]he parabola can be exactly expressed as a quadratic Bezier with the three points as the control vertices."
the arc I got, it's the bezier/conic I dont get
a special form of spline
forget what I said, it was incorrect anyway
a bezier is a different kind of curve, though
Jymmm: there is a silly screensaver with moving twisted lines
those are actually beziers where the control points move all over the screen
* alex_joni_ did that in the 11th grade iirc ;)
still have pascal code for it.. want it?
a Bezier is a more general form, so the conic sections are specific applications of a Bezier, I think
* Jymmm still not getting a bezier (sorry)
SWPadnos: a bezier is a special case of spline, a polinomial curve
but you can represent non-conic sections with a bezier as well
Jymmm: forget conics / comics
imagine this: you have 4 points
beziers are supposed to be useful for approximating arbitrary curves using "control points"
* Jymmm tosses the Spiderman #1 out the window
let them be known as 1,2,3,4
jepler Like the dot-to-dot drawing when you were a kid?
Jymmm : kinda
but you only draw from 2 to 3
so that the curve is tangent to lines 12 and 34
here's a good image: http://escience.anu.edu.au/lecture/cg/Spline/Image/bez01.png
wouldn't that be like angles?
1, 4 are "anchor point"s and 2, 3 are "control point"s in this image
or an angled line
what jepler pasted
jepler isn't that a arc?
no, an arc is always the same radius
no change in curvature
right, what alex said
load that image in your favorite vector+raster program and see if you can draw an arc exactly over it
hmmmmm, NEVER EVER?
I suspect you can't.
that in the picture is a general spline, there are quite a few flavours (bezier, b-spline, etc)
jepler well I could, but...
each depending on the relationship between points and line
here's another bezier that is clearly not an arc: http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/curves/bezier/bezier10.gif
for instance, on bezier the spline goes through 2 points, and tangent to lines 12 and 34
and here is another: http://www.cubic.org/docs/img/bezier1.png
ok, I think I'm getting bezier, now back to arc for a moment...
an arc will NEVER change it's radius?
no, an arc is cut from a circle
it will never change it's radius as you are moving on the arc
of course different arcs have different radiuses
or is that radii?
so with enough copies of ANY ARC, you *WILL* get a circle?
is there any particular reason to use arcs over beziers?
but not any circle
they are different things
the math is easier for arcs
one (bezier) can describe any shape, arc is limited to some extent (only can specify radius, start and stop angle)
and its easier to describe an arc, only a couple values to define
Jymmm: btw, here's a b-spline (opposed to bezier you see the spline is not going through any checkpoints) http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/COURSES/cs3621/NOTES/spline/B-spline/bspline-curve-open-1-CANVAS.jpg
ok, so arcs are more for angles than anything else?
if you want to make a circle, you'd use an arc
alex_joni I think I'll leave b-splines for another day =)
most parts you are cutting have some sort of geometric simpleness
so on those an arc is appropiate mostly
like cutting a rectangle with rounded corners
well, from what I've learned, what I'm working on needs a bezier, not a arc.
what are you working on?
alex_joni that makes sense.
Just cleaning up some artwork with LOTS of points.
if it isn't a regulated polinomial, then probably a bezier is what you mean
but for milling you have 2 problems on using beziers
1. the CAM software should know about them
2. the CAE? software should know about it (CAE beeing EMC in our case)
but I'm sure it's not CAE :(
cae == pro engineer or FEA stuff
cae is comp. aided. engineering?
are arcs blended in emc?
yes, one by one
kidding, actually no
so wouldnt lots of little lines be preferable for approximating a spline?
Jymmm: actually yes
that's what I'm cleaning up now
if it comes to use emc..
jymmm emc only supports lines and arcs
unless you wanna write a spline-based trajectory planner for us
yeah, but not 50,000 lines for a heart
fenn: and those poorly :D
Jymmm: you're probably faster redoing it in CAD
is it a raster scan or something?
that's what I am doing...
i dont know as much about cam software as i would like
clipart is not designed for cam work.
cradek's ttt converts splines to line segments .. I think it can give acceptable results with a small number of segments
oh this is a clusterfuck of layered pieces.
I clean them up, close points, remove loop, etc and create a CAM ready art library
fscking around with beowolf
alex_joni your mucking with a beowolf cluster?
<Jymmm> oh this is a clusterfuck
alex_joni you've never heard the term before I see =)
but .. every day we learn something new
simular to Snafu, and Fubar
too bad today is crap
too bad today it's crap
clusterfuck is a useful word to know
I'll bear that in mind
right next to b-splines
A disastrous situation that results from the cumulative errors of several people or groups. In semi-polite company this is referred to as a Charlie Foxtrot
see also: monkeys humping a football
i've never heard of charlie foxtrot
ok, you guys lost it
long time ago
although I must say I like 'armored cow'
alex_joni you kinky bastard!
alex_joni_: thanks again for your help .. I look forward to getting your next translation(s).
jepler: thought you forgot :P
Jymmm: that's 'canned milk'
but 'Broke-Dick' is funny too
alex_joni you and your tit fetish =)
hmm...so rtapi.conf doesn't exist in emc2 anymore?
zwisk: it never did :D
hmm... my old version of emc2 had it in scripts for some reason.
it still exists
but it only gets generated on make
hmm. It didn't seem to get made.
after ./configure of course
# This rule actually makes rtapi.conf. By including Makefile.inc
# as a dependency we insure that rtapi.conf is regenerated
# on the first "make" after running ./configure.
zwisk: you come just right..
there is some 'make install' that's crying out to get tested :)
Jymmm: know what the nicest typo is?
rm -rf . /
hmmm yep... I seem to have had some old cruft in my tree. We'll try again.
I have a 'working' version in HEAD
lots have happened since that tree
lots of files moved around which made it hard to merge
zwisk: I'm still on vacation this week, so if you want to address it I'd be available
It's probably on my side... I'll keep workin' through it.
alex_joni thus why you don't run as root/su
I mean I'm here for answers if you need em
Jymmm: that's not my typo, just thought it's nice
actually rm -rf /*
put that in a bash script called M102 in emc
and run it ;)
well if you don't want, I'll go away
ls - command not found :)
any luck on rtapi.conf?
yup... it was just cruft in my tree...
I rechecked out and all was well.
oh.. ok, better to start clean
how do you find what has changed?
like any of it?
diff's on backups, and cvs -n up normally...
oh... that's not what you wanted to know :)
The config manager is neat....
poor choice of words from my side..
Though if you create a new profile, it seems to crash.
probably access rights that make it go tits up.. worked ok here
I'm re-installing axis at the moment, as I really do like it...
but it's still a work in progress
axis1.1 is great
it would appear that scripts/emc doesn't have execute permissions by default.
no ,it gets modified by the first make too
because it gets generated by ./configure, and that doesn't make it executable
so you can't run emc before building.. which isn't that bad
Hmm... ok. Something strange must have happend on my first make, with the cruft, as a bunch of stuff didn't happen. But it all seems ok now.
And, the newer emc2 + axis seems to be happy with my file now. Yay!
Doh... darn... it still doesn't like my file when there's actually a value in the tool table. Doh.
I get that same error about D need G41 or G42, even though it's there.
Dx complaining on G41 I think
Yep... I'll retry without axis. I bet it's an emc2 thing though.
I'm off to bed
hmm... axis gives me the error when I load. tkemc doesn't, but when I run the program, it tells me "Cutter gouging with radius comp"... Maybe there is a problem with my math in the file.
zwisk: we've seen off-by-one errors before; I don't remember how/if we fixed it
zwisk: so maybe axis is showing a wrong error
hmm... so, like erorr -18 instead of error -19 sort of a thing?
but probably axis.. (there might have been changes by lerman stuff to interp lately)
71 is gouging
72 is "D word"
ok, now I'm gone.. I can see the sun, need to hide.. quick
zwisk: submit a bug report in the sf bug tracker (axis category) with the details please (attaching the shortest-possible program that reproduces the bug would be great)
ok.. will do...
that will make sure it doesn't get lost
cradek - so is axis part of emc2 now? if I where to cvs emc2 - axis would be there? If not will it at some point?
no, it's separate
the bug tracker is on sourceforge though.
I was wondering. (it is painless to install anyway ;)
yeah it's pretty easy nowadays
when we make the emc2 release tarball, I'll make an axis release tarball and put them together in the files section
the axis-emc2 install on the wiki page should updated. Is that something anyone can do?
[04:41:09] <cradek> http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/installing
these are our latest instructions for axis installation
If you're talking about the emc wiki, yes, anyone can update it
[04:41:49] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Compiling_Axis_EMC2
your directions work great
yeah these wiki instructions are totally outdated
it used to be a really touchy process.
initially I was using parts from the wiki page and some from yours. now yours is totally correct
I remember ;)
(for the bdi 4.3)
all I have experience with
I have to go to bed - talk to you later.
there, I "fixed" the wiki page
;) damn your good
thanks for filing that bug report
we'll probably look into it shortly
yep... no problem. Lemme know if you can't reproduce it or anything...
more interp issues - or differnt bug you think?
hard to say...
I am sure our errors used to be right
(I got them all the time)
if they are off by one now, it's probably due to an emc2 change
have to dig into it
well - night.
is your axis build new from scratch?
I mean, did you untar the source and build it fresh?
It should be.
(it as untar'd from a cvs snapshot)
just wondered if you had an old axis build in that directory
Would python get confused by existing 'compiled' files or somesuch?
sometimes it seems not-very-smart
rm -r build is always a good practice
argh, too late to start on this :-)
k'... No huge rush :)
i use emc1 is it worth upgrading to emc2?
that depends on lots of things!
the first emc2 release is upcoming soon
if you want to help develop or test emc2, you can install it alongside your emc1
ok well i've dled the cvs and compiling seemed to work, but i didnt really try it
if emc1 is working perfectly and you're not interested in developing or testing, it might be best to wait for the release
if emc1 has bugs that affect you and are fixed in emc2 (there are several) then you might want to upgrade
i wouldnt mind testing it, ive only got a simple 3 axis mill and i think i use steppmod on emc1
for 3 axis steppers it will be really easy to set up and use emc2
emc2 performs somewhat better with steppers
ive noticed a very strange bug on emc1 i dont know if it exists on emc2
i think its steppers, parallel port step/direction....
what's the bug?
i use eagle to crate pcbs, and pcb-gcode to create the gcode
cool, I do that too
[05:03:59] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
if i open and run the file the dimentions are wrong e.g when going to z -0.007 it doesnt work
if i first step through each instruction before running it works properly
when you say it doesn't work, what do you mean exactly?
actually i just need to step through the first few instructions, then it works fine after that
it doesnt go to 0.007 it goes to some other distance like 0.345 e.g
that sounds like it would be hard on your tooling!
but to fix it i just step through the first few instructions
I've never seen that kind of behavior
how old is your emc?
i have it happens everytime
1year maybe older
when emc2 wasnt working
would you send your g-code file to me: email@example.com
and I'll help you debug more tomorrow if you come back
it's bedtime here...
ok i'll see
I'll be around starting at 1400-1500UTC
so i was thinking upgrade to emc2 and use axis
that's probably a great idea if you're having problems with your version.
see you tomorrow, goodnight
anyone else here?
hi chris...here for a little
its asking for an emc.nml file when i try to run it
I am a commercial user of emc1
looking at emc2
but it is still beta
ok, i use emc1 too, decided to update to emc2 becuse of some wired bug ive got
emc1 has faults, but is fairly stable and works
yes emc1 does work
its a strange problem with the z axis not going to what is stated in the file
it will if i step through a few instructions first
you are using stepper?
then any file i load works properly
hmm I have not seenthat. I use servo, and have many thousands of commercial parts made
I use about a 9 month old version though
nobody has seen it, my version is about a year old
what kinda parts do you make?
heh...prototypes...but mostly turley calls
i'll show you
what are they?
[05:21:00] <les_w> http://www.lmwatts.com/gallery.html
scroll to the bottom
what do they do?
make turkey sounds
made 10,000 last year with emc1
what software do you use for designing things?
autocad and millwrite 2000
i should of left my computer on so i could try getting emc2 to work
I am working on some emc 2 stuff a little
have you got emc2 to work?
but production uses emc1
but have not tried much
where you stuck?
if there is a bug I have to lay off workers
can't mess with it much yet
I'm not stuck..I just don't use beta software in production
what bout for testing?
I plan to do some
emc1 has flaws, and someday emc2 will fox those we hope
i know nothing about it, i just started today
I have to be very careful about testing. My machine is big, pushing a 4 KW spindle on a 500 kG gantry at very high speeds
a software error could cost tens of thousands of dollars
youd really hate my software bug, itll jam the bit through your table
i just have a small 3 axis mill
I call it cnc wood splitter syndrome...since my machine has 2200 pounds of force peak
my machine cando metal too though.
thats a really big machine
les_w only 21:20 here
was playng trivial pursuit on paltalk.
had a blast
arent you lucky these people like me that tests the software
its 16:30 here
it's tommorow here.
les_w I know your good at math, what about algos?
my trivial pursuit game was australia
les_w you party animal you =)
its like 16:00 to 19:00 over here when its nye in america
i do aldos. I guess they taught us some about that at engineering school.
australian trivial pursuit?
got one answer. Qustion was:
what does an emetic do?
les_w: Ok, not tonight, but I might hit you up after I do some more research.
I give up
I typed " makes you feed your young"
and chris..missed on one question:
les_w you might like boulderdash/baulderdash then
what do they locally reffer people from Sydney as?
im from melbourne
hey, your emetic answer would be correct, if your a bird.
great fun for a guy stuck out in the woods.
whats the answer?
the sydney people?
ah it was a joke
i know they induce vomiting
most of the questions involed aussie slang so I would miss them
I know "spit the dummy "and a few things
had GDF from NSW
white maggot, dish licker, dead horse, yobo
My GF said arvo a lot.
typical aussie, wearing stubbies and drinking stubbies at the cricket, thats a type of yobo
like an aussie yuppie eh
a yobo would be an anti-yuppie
er, right :P
Well it's just after work for you guys...an ungodly hour for me
the witching hour
no im doing shift work, just started
the hole in my stomach is acting up...can't sleep
the damn hippies are cutting up squirrel carcasses in my kitchen
les_w just dont let the beer leak out... that's alcohol abuse
les_w let me guess, you got that lovely hole in your corporate slug days?
glad when this spell is over. Type "a". Used to it.
any more aussie slang?
Ah, my body can't keep up with my head. Worked myself into hospital at corporate in Chicago.
hit the dentist today in and out in under 45 minutes.
Now I own the firm. It's even worse.
les_w fire the owner
pull or root?
my body cant keep up with my head either, usually it works itself out by me being lazy and getting nothing done
les_w let Congo do all the management
he already does
les_w I broke my front tooth 20+ years ago, the bond broke 4 days ago, the put on a new one.
|-|-|_|_|-|-| <- bucktoothed
no pain, no shots either
I always loved buck-toothed girls.
les_w you kinky bastard you! =)
Knew theres a reason I like ya!
blah. almost 1 am. I have a herd day's work of telephone tag to do tommorrow.
that can be a pain
i'll try to get some sleep if tummy will stop the burn.
les_w Oh, meant to ask you...
les_w HAve you seen 15 deg v cutters that are as durable as 60 or 90 deg?
1/2" or better
15 has got to be fragile
single flute is best
use HSS not carbide
would that casue a lot of deflection?
not so much as just being weak
why HSS ?
carbide too brittle
in other words...
less chance of snapping?
you do that so well, that you can even type it out... the SOUND of experience
well...off to bed
night jymmmand chris
i thought carbide was better for milling pcbs
pcb's have fiberglass in them which is very hard, so carbide will stay sharp much longer
chris___: the 15 deg wasn't for PCB's in my case. for engraving in wood
you should only be cutting like .01" deep on a pcb so it shouldnt put too mcuh force on the bit
ok, so if i do wood use hss
yeah i got 0.005 on pcbs
chris___: No, les suggested HSS fo rthe 15 deg, as I was askign for DURABLE bits - ones that won't break easily
chris___ 3/4" diameter
in most cases carbide is fine for wood
15 degree is pretty fragile though
what effect does a 15degree bit give?
I'm sound asleep in bed...but we use carbide exclusively for wood. zzzzz
chris___ Just a steep angle is all
yes rather narrow, how wide is the tip?
chris___ mostly just playing around with new design capabilities artistic wise
ok, seeing what it looks like
a very DEEP but narrow groove in some cases
or softer edge in others
yeah from 3/4" at 15 degress it would be rather deep, how deep?
got any pics of your work?
jymmm why dont you just use an endmill?
i guess i dont know what you're doing.. nevermind
fenn you know like a 60 deg v-bit, but a 15 deg one
Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
a long tapered bit
Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
chris___ is now known as chris
chris is now known as chrisb
discussion on another channel =)
chrisb is now known as mrchris
whats that got to do with emc?
not a thing =)
I have a ton of nicks, depending on the situation =)
stfu i cant think, "i wont some peanuts", thats better
uh, me too
i guess you could say that
are you a dev?
or do you run emc2?
both questions subject to interpretation
just ask and i'll see what i can make up
I'm still about...
sorry im at work
i just compiled emc2 today
when i try and run it complains about emc.nml file missing..
is this come self creatable file, is there a template some where, or is it a mistake, or is the file blank?
you're using a config file from emc1 right? so you need to point it to emc.nml in configs/common or just copy it to the same directory
if you look in emc.ini or whatever your .ini file is called, it should have NMLFILE = emc.nml or something like that
cant look at the file as the computer that runs this is nor turned on, and im at work
yeah i do use emc1, the same file works on both? ill try it out when i get back home
are you using the old .ini file or you're just trying to run the program?
im using the one supplied with emc2
hmm that doesnt sound good
will emc2 work on a vanilla 2.6 kernel?
you need rtai patched on it
it needs rtlinux?
is there an rtai patch for 2.6, its been about a year since i compiled emc1
you can download rtai and patch + compile a kernel, but it's a big pain
there are debs of a patched kernel somewhere
i use gentoo
feel free to compile your own kernel then :)
as i always do
or you could extract the kernel from the deb with ar -x i guess
that pc currently uses 2.4.20 with rtlinux 3.2
there is a wiki page detailing how to patch the kernel but it's reportedly out of date
will it work with that kernel?
i'm not sure
i think it does.. cradek uses rtlinux
emc1 works, emc2 seemed to compile ok
and you're getting an nml file error? weird
i got upto the missing emc.nml file before i had to go to work is all
its not in the configs directory
i'll check it out when i get home
dude, ssh rocks
you can crash your computer from halfway around the world
it sure does, and power switch it the king when it comes to firewalls
i'll check it out when i get home and disable the greatest firewall ever
zwisk: thanks for figuring out what was going on. I'm not sure what I'll do to fix it, since I want axis to run on emc1 and emc2 ..
hi alexjoni, cradek, jepler :)
i just saw that there is an new axis release in the wild :)
yes axis 1.1 is released
is this one with or without the pzopengl dependencies ?
i played around another few hoiurs with the devel release of puppysit. its far from beeing finished but i am thinking if i should go towards 2.6 kernels or if i should stay swith 2.4.
has anyone some points for or against each ?
regarding emc2 and rtai
2.4 can run all versions of emc, 2.6 can't
hmm, thats a big point
because of that I think you should not pick 2.6 unless you have a very good reason
cradek: are there many people still using emc1 ?
cradek: thanks, didnt know that
I think virtually everyone but developers and a few testers are using emc1
but those users aren't going to care about puppy, because they're already installed
I've had good luck running 2.4.31 with SATA on lots of modern hardware
I don't see any overriding reason to go to 2.6 yet (wrt hardware support)
cradek: yes i too. i personallz like 2.4 kernel very much. the compiletime isnt that long ;)
cncuser: did you see that for AXIS 1.2 we'll support i18n?
jepler: no i didnt, cool :)
cncuser: I think you asked me about it once in the past
jepler: yes, i remember. cool you did it .
cncuser: can you think of a shorter translation for "Feed Override (%):"? The one alex gave me stretches the whole screen wider as you can see in the screenshot
hard :) for feed is not speed(geschwindigkeit) but in this case its the closest thing i can imagine. maybe one could say "Geschwindigkeitsanpassung" which says "speed modification" instead of "Geschwindigkeitsuebersteuerung"
saves a few letters :)
maybe I'll see if I can just split it over two lines without it looking too bad
how about replacing it with Gesch...ung
cradek: thats not readable :)
it was an earthquake in california ?
I'm kidding, but it looks just as readable to me
cradek: hehe :)
Jacky^: I didn't hear about that, I hope it wasn't a big one
6.5 richtel , seem strong enough :/
the only good thing it was in the sea, away from LA
probably anyone heard it around there
bah, .. going aout for a bit of shopping ;)
Vorschub seems the to be the correct whng instead of speed
brb, i change client
know what? at 7:45 I got a conference call from about 6 engineers from a vendor. I answered it in my robe.
not a call you were expecting?
yes but not at that hour
lucky I was not in the shower
those guys at morgan electro ceramics sure get up with the chickens
I usually do too, but stayed up late last night playing trivial pursuit.
anyone seen ray henry?
he was around yesterday
I thought he lived here...guess I'll shoot him an e-mail.
blah rewiring the cnc control...I had grounded the 82c55 with normally closed for home switches on the stg dio.
it has a 10k pull up to +5
no wonder I was getting false home trips
better put optos onthat
changing all control lines to 24v
sounds like a plan.
yeah the new high power spindle makes a lot of electrical nasties
when we where having problems with steppers - my next try was running higher voltage control (higher than 5v) - but it ended up being we where overdriving the stepper.
Well I false trigger z home some...it's running the furthest with home cable next to high current srvo and spindle likes
makes sense - have you been able to test the spindle yet (actual cutting)?
searching for something 24v (possibly balanced) to ttl....don't want to solder up stuff
want something ready made here
thats cheating ;)
no spindle not running...had major surgery to accomodate the fat wiring
new igus flex conduit
making a few other changes too
are you running the vfd at the spindle or on the other end?
cable is shirlded though
Igus chainflex high flex vfd cable
So I am just doing a whole service interval while the machine is down
are you going to re-map the leadscrew?
I will do a quick check yeah
preload torque has dropped to about half
it has had lots of use
how many hours do you think?
don't have a timer on it...I know we did 80,000 drill peck cycles last year
poor thing ;)
10,000 turkey calls
is your z axis preloaded in any way?
It's built for it though
yes...all screws and rails are preloaded
wrong terms - sorry ;)
don't need to
has just enough friction not to fall
it's 2:1 timing belt....that is where I get the friction
if it was direct drive it would fall
oh oh....people coming to fell 4 ft diam oak tree!
ah false alarm
tree is sick and has to go for shop expansion
plenty of firewood huh
yes - can't get any good lumber out of it?
I doubt it. prob hollow and full of nails. We'll check and if it looks good we can put some on the saw.
have a saw mill?
I think it is too big for our woodmizer...it is 36" max diameter
woodmizer - cool -
yeah cousin has 24 hp full hydraulic woodmizer mill
I think that is what my grandfather has
as long as there are no nails
but this tree is over 48" at the base
make a lot of florring huh
prob half rotten and bad
like you say - hollow
yeah, think so
durn...looks like I will be soldering optos on a board
can't find some little cheap something redy made
I have not run across what you want - doesn't men anything though
here you go les - big picture 2MB but kinda neet
[18:30:07] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSC02968.JPG
something my dad and his brothers built quite a while ago.
used to have a gas engine as it was "portable" - now it has a 20hp 3 phase motor.
a lot nicer
the throat is about 2 feet.
I still don't have the solar kiln up
just too much other stuff to do
you have that problem too?
Well, I am completely booked up on consulting. I get a break here of a few days waitng for a vendor to make some custon piezo devices though
so I can work on the machine a little
ray someone was hunting for you
hi guys :)
Was that harbor picture from your balcony?
les_w: Yep. Saw that.
question ray...did you guys just use phototransistor optos for 24v to ttl on that mazak?
One IO interface card was Vital. 16 in opto and 8 dc out.
The others were opto-22
well I gotta go to 24 for home and limit. Stg already has 10 k pullups on the dig ins
just series resistor to the led and use the existing pullup in the stg should work.
[19:21:15] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/OPTO-22-PB16L-DC-INPUT-16-Channel-Board_W0QQitemZ7577371753QQcategoryZ97184QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
throw in a few input modules, and you should be all set
only have6 to isolate though
grab parts from the drawer...
I just did a search for (opto22, opto-22, opto 22) (with the parens)
kinda doing wiring rework and standard service interval for the machine
les_w: question about voltage, do you have 220 V there too ?
but that's between 2 phases
or standard 220V 1-phase?
I have 220-240 single and 3 phase
thats ok for many carpentier machines ..
we use 380 V here too
most of our handheld tools are 120v...like routers
the new spindle is 220 delta 380 wye
I am using 220
230 actually...that's what I am getting since they replaced the power line
220 here is used for light jobs
but probabbly enough in most case
goes through forest and squirells chewed it up
chewed the neutral badly
les_w: K4ts bought a nice gift for you, it require 220 V, planning to send all in the next days ..
Im loking for some good pasta, and limoncello :)
I will ask you, later, for the correct address
ah you will make me hungry again
dinner time.. later
it is nice having 3 phase - motors are cheap around here.
SWP the only signal lines I will be running at 5v are encoders. Shielded twisted pair though.
you may find that those will need to be differential (if they're not already)
and only grounded at one end :)
Hey I build big audio power amps some....very familiar with ground loops!
really matters on 1500 watt amps!!
03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/emc/ini/initraj.cc: fixing bug #1387737, starting with 0 default vel on startup now
sometimes even with careful star grounding you get some
speakers are 100 dba 1 meter 2.83v....
so tiny tiny ground currents can be heard
cool alex - did you look at the other bug - no movement causes feedrate set to 0?
oowww...can't find any optos in the parts drawers
thought I had some.
oh well...have to do a mouser and digi key order anyway.
time for a mouser/digikey order?
have to replentish the parts bins
Oh I give digi key many thousands a year!
03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: fix bug #1387740, a motion that goes nowhere clears feedrate. indeed the case when neither linear nor angular move, wasn't checked
speak of the devil - nice going alex
get a phone book about once a week it seems
(digi key catalog)
same here - when I was a kid the digikey catalog was my chistmas catalog
cradek that motion bug in cannon must go way back
what motion bug?
zero move clears feed
actually is it a bug....
it was in emc1 too?
a zero length move kinda implies F0...and it's modal...
I don't think that was a bug in emc1
I tested it (but not carefully)
my testing has sure been wrong before (as alex knows)
cradek: fair enough for me..
cradek: I think the bug is there too
can you test on an emc1 ?
open MDI, issue F100
it only did it in mdi though - iirc
then on the next line, G1X1
and see what happens
mine went to x1
actually I don't think it was in emc1...cam often makes repeated moves
alex_joni_: were those the complete instructions?
jepler: ok, then probably it does work ok in emc1
not totally sure
I got a feedrate error with: F100 / G1X1 / G1X1 / G1X0
skunkworks: or it works?
the second x1 move then zeros the feed
ok, same error
Paul and I were hunting for zero length moves as we were trying to dicover the cause of stutter
but they caused no problem
"cannot do g1 with zero feed rate"
les - it was only in mdi
this was just reapeated commands...like g1x1 g1x1
jepler - so emc1 does the same thing?
yes, it looks like emc1 has the same bug
never tested in MDI
les_w: probably in auto it works, this is MDI related
03alex_joni * 10emc/src/emctask/emccanon.cc: bugfix for motion that goes nowhere clears feedrate
jepler: not anymore (emc1 has the same bug)
interesting. I guess no one noticed it before - not that it was a big deal - just annoying
I don't do many G1 moves in mdi
I don't do much mdi
anyways, nice of cradek to spot it
Just touchoffs and stuff
cradek tested it in auto and it worked
it's a little disconcerting that our "stable" version has more bugs than our devel version
it means "devel" is doing something right?
jepler: lol, yes :D
(except for the "getting released" part anyway)
jepler: what axis should I get? 1.1 or latest?
It appears that if I have problems with the new spindle at high speeds just a motenc and fast box will help
stg is slow
motenc can do 8000 updates/sec
we still had slight misblend spikes even sfter the fix though
It's just the are very small
compared to what they were
hi alex_joni :) what do you thing about "Vorlaufanpassung" anstelle von "Geschwindigkeits Uebersteuerung"
hmm, but hmm, modification and override isnt quite the same
ok, ill be back later
cncuser: wasn't my idea Uebersteuerung
read it somewhere, and I thought it's ok
anpassung might be ok too, but it's not that conclusive
Either is large or long for that button!
not your button ;) it's for AXIS
on tkemc I have it shorter
Ah. When you get some time I need you to explain a bit about msgcat
alex_joni: yeah, its ok. i think about it for a few hours now ;) and havent found a snappy german translation. but i think geschwindigkeit = speed doesnt quite meet the point. if its feed like feedrate it should be "vorlauf".
vorlauf sounds strange..
till just posted a movie of his new emc2 machine
* alex_joni_ is anctious to see :D
booting a doze box for the player :D
[20:14:30] <les_w> http://www.audiflitzer.de/mov/newmixer.mov
whizzing right along
looks like at least 0.1g
* rayh is jealous of quick connections to web.
what's the purpose of the extra axis?
maybe it can accel faster (to draw short things in X?)
cradek_ is now known as cradek
ah a clue. Is this like a pantograph pen plotter.
yes it's a plotter
do you want a still of it?
can you receive dcc?
should be able to.
on its way...
yep looks like it's sending
If I had to guess it's purpose it is to prove that it can be done.
cradek: it's a mixed kinematics
the short one is moving more quickly than the large X
yeah, I can sure see that
so whenever the movement can be done by only the short one, that one's used
looks like the short one also "leads" the long one
too bad we can't see what it draws (I think it's drawing in the air)
that' a good concept for an EDM machine
definitely want to keep non-trivial kinematics.
absolutely - I think emc is the only (non-vendor-specific) machine controller with that capability
OpenCNC may also do it, I guess
When I visited Till years ago he had a little 6" square hexapod paperweight on his desk.
He was running it with a very old 486 processor.
I have a robotic arm that I want emc to run someday
* alex_joni_ is so happy Till's machine is running emc2 ;)
with STG2 you know ;)
cradek: stacked rotaries?
rayh: I don't know much about it, but yes I think that's what you would call it
I don't remember where it came from
it has a terrible built-in controller that barely works
I think it's very old
How big a machine is this?
the base is maybe a foot square and it has a reach of maybe 1.5' radius
I think it's a "large toy" size
Sounds like a lot of fun.
yeah, I'll try to remember to take a pic of it
the mixed kinetics is a slick idea
how are U ? :P
cradek: emc2 is a must for that
do you guys know a way to snapshot more than one desktop ?
a collage ?
I use ksnapshot , for a single shot
[21:09:51] <rayh> http://www.isw.uni-stuttgart.de/personen/t_franit/modell/index.html
how are you doing?
rayh: wow :D
catch you guys later.
the only issue Ive K4ts_ is tryng to kill me with pasta and fish ..
im not sure how much a long ill survive :(
[21:15:46] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/cena03/
thats the second round
i wonder if when ill came back ill have 20-30 kg more :(
ive no more space ..
anonimasu: and there ? whats up ?
I am sick atm
bad weather ?
regular cold :)
here is raining since 22 dic without break :(
waiting for a nice sun day to get some nice photos
I really prefer the snow to the rain
but .. we are to near to the sea for that
thats is called the city of sun ..
you know, first af all pizza was born here
going to head to bed in a little bit
yay it works..
who wants to see a snapshot?
alex_joni: what does?
Jacky^: got the DCC request?
anonimasu: it all does ;)
AXIS & tkemc & emc2
damn win fw
oh.. and mini too :D
* alex_joni_ is running 3 GUI's
alex_joni_: you should start keystick, emctop.py and maybe mdi.py too
lol.. mdi is no good, running auto now
yeah, not much to do with mdi.py if you're actually running a program
Imperator_: how are you Martin?
hm, a bit stressed
a lot to do at work
and you ?
OK.. vacation still
you are lucky, i had only two days one before x-mas and one afterwards
some news ?
Imperator_: sometime the stress help peoples to go on
I personally prefer a clean cut ..
I will start in 15 jan again
I taked 1 mounth :P
but in august I was working ..
all the summer
[21:47:21] <alex_joni_> http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/emcstuff/interfaces/
feast your eyes :D
three days? Luxury! All my employer gives is one day (in this case, the monday after christmas)
plus one more day for new year's
* alex_joni_ had off since the 23rd
till on the 8th.Jan
hehe alex_joni_ cool
if only the numbers were the same ;)
really nice :)
alex_joni_: run emctop too
the only thing I dont like is the wm :(
SWPadnos: should have been.. didn't check
when youll try Ion3 ? :P
almost, but not quite (X looks to be the same)
only Y was moving I think
I think those are the biggest window titlebars I've ever seen
well AXIS is the main GUI
* Jacky^ is playng with ion3 and his laptop a bit ..
its cooool :D
the others get it from NML
cradek: shush :D
they're all polling - it's no surprise they all show slightly different numbers
Hi Steven, have you done some programming on the FPGA Software for the Mesanet card ?
and the screenshot is not momentarely
not done momentarely I think
Imperator_, nope - though I finally installed it into my EMC machine :)
ok.. done with emc2 for today..
booting a doze to see Till's movie ;)
alex_joni: you should have tried mplayer .. it played just fine in my linux
it plays fine in mplayer...
wow mplayer rocks
SWPadnos: ah, ok. I have changed some signals on the pins, so that the counters are running with my hardware. But the DAC is still not implementaded
jepler: I wonder if there is supposed to be sound
I tried ti take a video with my new camera, 3 sec: 7.5 mb O_O
vlc is also nice.
Well - I did finally decide to purchase a huge (expensive) FPGA/PCB development system, so I may be able to get some stuff done now
need o check settings ..
(without having to learn eagle / vhdl / etc)
I'll be able to output gerber files, parts lists, and vhdl or verilog source, but probably not editable eagle files
Imperator_: was you working on a homebuilt servo driver ?
SWPadnos: I agreed FPGA are ice
should be, for $12000 :)
Jacky^: yes, based on the Mesa card
Imperator_: any luck ?
you want to do a bigger project
Jacky^: the DAC is still not running
SWPadnos: are you programming FPGAs at work ?
I expect to, yes
the nice thing about the system I bought is that it's vendor-neutral
maybe i have to make a smal developer board, with some switches and leds, to test some simple things
I can retarget the designs to Xilinx, Altera, Actel, Lattice, Atmel, etc
do you have flash player available?
and if you are changing the PCB layout, it changes the software automaticaly
yes - I can swap pins while routing, and have the FPGA automatically updated
one sec - I'll get you the URL of one of the coolest features ;)
cradek: there's a new bug already :(
nice stuff, but for smaler projects eagle is perfect ! Your tool is for a proffesional user
[22:01:13] <SWPadnos> http://www.altium.com/Evaluate/DEMOcenter/AltiumDesigner60/EnhancedJTAGDeviceViewer/
click on "view Demo"
D stuff on G51
I don't know what you're talking about...
G41.. I keep mixing that up :)
how do I go to a SF bug report by number?
that number is too low
jepler: you go to another one and change the number
[22:04:25] <alex_joni_> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=106744&aid=1396537&group_id=6744
that's from the mail I got
"Cutter Gouging vs D word requires G41/G42 errors"
oh that's just an axis bug
right.. is it?
I've fixed that in the HEAD of AXIS now
now I think that axis+emc2 will give the correct error text (the same one shown by tkemc when running the program)
it'll be fixed in 1.1.1 (sigh)
cradek: will it? I'm not sure about putting this fix I made in 1.1.1.
well one way or another, we'll fix the error messages...
I kinda decided to do nothing in 1.1
but because of the other bug (scrollbars) I do think we need to do 1.1.1.
"axis takes your X server with it" seems kinda bad
jepler: how about making the fixes and release 1.1 again :D
he responded that ctrl-alt-backspace did work
at least one time
jepler: I guess it is rc1 for a reason
cradek: no, this was axis 1.1 final .. or do you mean we'd do a 1.1.1rc1?
I hate when this happens..
argh, I don't know
alex_joni_: I don't think we should call a different version also 1.1
cradek: I was only kidding
alex_joni_: if nobody had installed it yet, I'd say we should do that and not tell anyone... but too late.
cvs can't handle the same tag more than once
I didn't install it..
allrighty.. Radar calling ;)
* alex_joni_ is off to watch some more M.A.S.H.
les_w: you around'
whats up ?
trying to figure out how to copy and php object to another php object... I'm relearning OO programming
uh .. you know whats the best OO language ?
evreyone has their own choices.
but what the best OO language ? :P
I meant the Language where anything is an object :)
do not google ! :P
php is nice, but older ..
you need a powerful Language :P
Was playing trivial pursuit on paltalk.
A-L-P-H-A: try RUBY
oops another game...bbl!!!
les_w: please send me your exact address in email firstname.lastname@example.org
les_w: please, send the adress :-)
Jacky^, try Lisp ;)
SWPadnos: good too :)
I didn't say it was good :)
as much as Ruby ?
in Ruby all* is an object
LISP is not OO in the modern sense
I just tried to test 3 lines of Ruby code ..
im entusiast :)
LISP makes no sense, so that fits
equivalent C are 77 lines ..
to do xactly the same thing
hello all... any one know of a command line pdf to tiff converter??
I think it uses ghostscript to render the pdf pages
command line example available???
pdf2ps | pstopnm | pnmtotiff
or convert pdffile[pagenumber] file.tiff
SWPadnos: makes no sense?
and these are part of imagemagick??
convert is the imagemagick command-line tool
pdf2ps is part of ghostscript
the rest are part of netpbm
and these are apt gettable??
ok. can it do single pages? (that's what the brackets are for witn imagemagick)
yes - apt-get should work with both imagemagick and ghostscript (and the pbmtools, but I'm not sure if that's the package name)
I've looked at ruby.
I don't mind it.
I jsut don't like the fact that it's not wide spread enough to be useful for me as a developer.
A-L-P-H-A: dont you like it ?
oh .. ok :)
if my client already has hosting, I'm pretty sure the hosting provider will have php... but it probably won't have ruby.
yeah.. meadiwiky is the most popoular wiky, but not the better :P
think at moin for example ..
HP = Hewett Packard... or however you spell it.
most popoular doesnt mean the better
dead ipod, 6 months old... serial number isn't in the system. But HP will replace it for me!
Apple, eat shit and die... as apple has a 90 day warrantee.
it's silly to talk about what the "best" language is
90 seconds or 90 feet whichever comes first
I agreed that Ruby is young and it have not too much libs as Python yet
but its just a wonderful Language for me :)
python, perl, php, ruby... they all do the same shit...
just that php is usually the most easily preinstalled script for webhosting.
A-L-P-H-A: no. not the same thing
why you need to add a ; at the end of line ?
Jacky^, I use the language to make money... if I can't make money with it, I can't be bothered with it.
A-L-P-H-A: you talk like web hosting is the only application - I don't think Jacky^ asked about web hosting
if you forget it an intelligent Language should do it for you :)
it depend on how much intelligent is ..
Jacky^, I'm used to adding ; at the end of lines... good form, and I've been programming for years in C, C++, so they require it as well.
thats ok :)
cradek... I only need to develope webapps... if I didn't... I'd just RAD with delphi. Nice, simple, easy, fast enough language.
I accept your piont of view
I really really like ruby. just that I can't use it to make money...
it depends more on whether the intelligence does what you actually wanted to do
even though you forgot
I think Ruby woulde most popoular
to become really great
but I think it is in the right direction
Jacky^, ruby on rails? or Ruby?
I'm talking Ruby on Rails.
of course, im talking as a Ruby fan
whats the difference ?
ruby is the language... ruby on rails it the extension package that makes ruby.
just php is the language, and cake does the same thing as ROR.
'cake' is another package addon, that makes PHP does what ROR does.
'cake' is still premodial.
I just dont like PHP for a lot of reason
in first, is bad sintax
Jacky^, you programmed any other languages before ruby?
yeah, just played with Delpi for windows
I'm not saying it's great... I'm just saying I understand php... as it's supposed to not be a leap for old programmers.
well, the world of developers is not static
if one was to start a new language, from strach, not caring about old programmers... then they'd do it like ruby. repeat 5 [do whatever]
no, but your largest adoption base is programmers... new people aren't going to touch what's new... as they'd never get any help from more experienced users.
first time I used Debian it tooke 1 week just to figure out my sound card :(��
now, it have no secrets for me
thats the progress
I still haven't figured out my 3head monitor setup for ubuntu... I got 3 monitors working, but I can't set up my 3d drivers.
I can't live without multiple monitiors now.
dou you spend many time in compilations ?
I just used dual head for 2 mouths
I love it.
you win A
one monitor is IM chat clients... the other is the editor window, and the third is the result / reference page.
Now... once you figure out that you can play a movie on another window, your productivity goes to the toilet.
your PC station should look like houston nasa station :P
I just use virtual desktop on 19 " LCD monitor
are nough for me :)
jtr_ is now known as jtr
you say that... until you've tried multiple monitors...
I couldn't go back.
no.. I really dont think Ill never try them
too hard for me
I suffer with head moviments
Id like to find a wayto talk to pc
dragon naturally speaking works well.
use via voice
but I think he's onlinux.
so I don't know what's out there for linux.
I tried something
jacky: if you run linux, try to get a old redhat cdrom, there was a really good working free viavoice edition includet. right now its pay only i think.
Im in love with Debian
jacky: doesnt matte r:)
in that case its ok :)
jacky: i too dont own this cdromset anymore, i bought it 4 or 5 years ago ;)
was IBM ?
* anonimasu is starting to hate debian more and more
already tried then ..
jacky: for a short time they had nice tools out there for linux. there marketing has changed
not so perfect
yeah, I know
anonimasu: how so?
jacky: it was the best then. and i think ibm really much money on speech recognition, alltough i know there is only a small part in the consumer products.
anonimasu: please, do not say it sayd screen not found !
alex_joni: apt is the name of what makes it suck..
I meant the x server ..
cncuser: yes, I agreed, propably the best and the latest :(
anonimasu: how so?
try satisfying a dependency manually ;)
and install a package with some program that depends on it..
thats not hard at all
try the hell of RH
may only suse can be better
not sure ..
rh bites for that
if you do force it there it'll bring you hell ;)
anonimasu: Linux is developed in a bazaae style
thats is normal
Jacky^: you are way off.
you can get the soruce too
and compile all from yourself
sorry I need to go, gf is calling.
gentoo for example is cool
hehe, distroposing :)
but hom much time it take for anything ?
puppy is the fastest ;)
slackware is cool too
alex_joni: also lots of stuff if _broken_
puppy its nicee hehehe
well another day..
alex_joni: that dosent really help me with anything..
right some days ago I was writing in a forum
debian is available on many many many plattforms
asking why, Debian site has never changed his look
when you change something ? when it work bad .. right ?
suse cones with the best preconfigured kde desktop
anonimasu: G night
theres the perfect distro for everything and everyone :)
cncuser: im tryng to say to a lots of peoples theyre doing the right thing using windows
searching for the icons disapperead from desktop
and fighting to resize windows with the mouse :(
im loosing ..
* Jacky^ follow k4ts to the bed
got time for a cvs/sf question?
ajoni is now known as alex_joni_