#emc | Logs for 2005-12-13

[00:12:20] <robin_sz> good morning
[00:24:41] <robin_sz> morning
[00:24:59] <les_w> morning!
[00:25:06] <LawrenceG> afternoon!
[00:25:12] <les_w> haha
[00:25:17] <Jacky^afk> hello !
[00:25:25] <LawrenceG> evening
[00:25:47] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[00:26:11] <Jacky^> hehe when come les come the sun ! :P
[00:26:12] <LawrenceG> this has been a busy place the last few days.... great to see the excitement and progress
[00:27:13] <les_w> yeah
[00:27:19] <les_w> multiple topics
[00:28:31] <LawrenceG> les_w: looks like you might see some progress on HSM.... you will need bigger bolts to hold down your router :}
[00:29:03] <les_w> Well it's great to talk about it
[00:29:29] <les_w> doubt if anything can happen...too hard to integrate into emc I think
[00:29:57] <les_w> can't just unplug a box and plug another one in
[00:31:13] <les_w> I was looking at the Hurco VM-1 today
[00:31:23] <LawrenceG> it depends on how much code one wants to save..... In some respects, it should not be hard to take a list of instructions (gcode) and turn them into nice sampled motion niblets
[00:31:41] <les_w> Seems a nice small machine
[00:32:15] <LawrenceG> in some respects, the nml libraries have been a hinderance...
[00:32:29] <LawrenceG> got a link?
[00:32:42] <les_w> vm-1? let me check
[00:33:06] <robin_sz> check out the Haas mini and VF-0 too
[00:33:14] <robin_sz> the Haas mini is a bargain
[00:33:39] <Jacky^> robin_sz: question for you
[00:33:43] <robin_sz> 42
[00:33:59] <Jacky^> whats the lowest feedrate usable for cnc plasma cutter ?
[00:34:11] <les_w> http://www.hurco.com/Hurco/English/Products/Machining+Centers/VM+Series/
[00:34:19] <Jacky^> or 'normal speed'
[00:34:21] <robin_sz> Jacky^: how thick metal?
[00:34:34] <Jacky^> max 3 cm
[00:34:41] <robin_sz> 3cm, ok
[00:34:55] <robin_sz> so you need 120A plasma for edge start
[00:35:01] <robin_sz> 250A for piercing
[00:35:36] <robin_sz> at 30mm, with 120A, expect speeds around 1m/minute
[00:36:11] <Jacky^> uhm.. thats too fast for what I was expected
[00:36:20] <robin_sz> fast ?
[00:36:27] <robin_sz> thats WAY SLOW for plasma
[00:36:36] <Jacky^> oh, sorry ..
[00:36:38] <Jacky^> right
[00:36:42] <les_w> I need to take windfall profits and buy cap equipment I guess or pay big tax.
[00:36:49] <robin_sz> in 1.6mm sheet, with 30 amps, expect 10m minute
[00:37:09] <les_w> Need to talk to an accountant I guess, as much as i DISLIKE THEM
[00:37:18] <LawrenceG> les_w: that is a nice looking machine
[00:38:05] <les_w> I need to do the maslow " need and wants" thing
[00:38:17] <LawrenceG> les_w: yea... I have a related problem... several stocks I held were bought out so it triggers a bunch of capital gains I had not planned on this year
[00:38:30] <les_w> A bit irrational about it now
[00:38:50] <les_w> so far I am just confused and have done nothing
[00:39:08] <LawrenceG> les_w: new or used machine?
[00:39:10] <robin_sz> fitted you new spindle yet?
[00:39:35] <les_w> It's on but doing wiring
[00:39:39] <robin_sz> 'k
[00:39:41] <les_w> big rewire
[00:39:48] <robin_sz> when is first chips expected?
[00:40:21] <les_w> Week or so...just doing it in spare time really
[00:40:26] <Jacky^> robin_sz: thanks, I taked note, my cousin will start to build his plasma cutter in january too
[00:40:28] <robin_sz> right
[00:40:49] <les_w> The articulated dust shield works good
[00:41:02] <les_w> runs on vertical thomson bearings
[00:41:12] <robin_sz> Jacky^: plasma is a funny thing, good luck. I think to stand any chance you need arc-voltage height sensing
[00:41:20] <LawrenceG> 750ipm rapids should hop it across the floor
[00:41:42] <les_w> vm-1?
[00:41:50] <LawrenceG> 20hp spindle... lots of chips to come ... VM-2
[00:42:01] <Jacky^> robin_sz: I just hope in my cousin experience .. he's the expert in that :/
[00:42:27] <robin_sz> its not the speeds that makes em hop, its the accels
[00:42:41] <les_w> Saw used vm-2 for about 20k...4 years old or something
[00:42:52] <LawrenceG> yep... mostly the full speed into the stops!
[00:42:58] <robin_sz> heh
[00:43:12] <robin_sz> the Haas I play wiht is *very* smooth
[00:43:22] <cncuser> jojo
[00:43:32] <les_w> also good looking machine
[00:43:38] <robin_sz> yep
[00:43:41] <robin_sz> well thought out
[00:44:01] <robin_sz> and, you can cook breakfast while you work :)
[00:44:05] <cncuser> anyon wanna play a round nbetris ? :)
[00:44:08] <les_w> other than protos How could I keep that spindle turning/
[00:44:11] <cncuser> anyon wanna play a round netris ? :)
[00:44:29] <les_w> tetris?
[00:44:33] <cncuser> yes
[00:44:52] <Jacky^> ugh, I like gtkatlantic
[00:45:03] <LawrenceG> well how about building a coke can refinery and an al rolling mill, then using all you output to build hobby router tables?
[00:45:13] <les_w> I only play monopoly. I always win too.
[00:45:29] <Jacky^> hehe ]:)
[00:45:31] <cncuser> Jacky^: nice
[00:45:35] <robin_sz> les_w: have you seen the spindle brake dump resistor on thos mills?
[00:45:43] <les_w> Oh I did kinda design up hobby router this weekend just for amusement
[00:45:57] <les_w> big resistor?
[00:46:01] <robin_sz> kinda
[00:46:09] <robin_sz> sort of metal clad ...
[00:46:18] <robin_sz> in a flat spiral design ...
[00:46:31] <LawrenceG> like a stove top element?
[00:46:42] <robin_sz> not *like* ....
[00:46:44] <robin_sz> it is ...
[00:46:49] <les_w> hahaha
[00:47:01] <LawrenceG> hey... I was just looking at those.... cheap
[00:47:14] <LawrenceG> rugged
[00:47:17] <robin_sz> yep
[00:47:27] <LawrenceG> lots available at the dump
[00:47:33] <robin_sz> the Haas mini is an amzing little machine for the money
[00:47:39] <les_w> yeah
[00:47:53] <les_w> tools are so cheap to buy now!
[00:48:07] <cncuser> well, no netris, no reason to dont stay asleep ;=)
[00:48:08] <robin_sz> thats because there is no work
[00:48:12] <cncuser> cu
[00:48:19] <cncuser> itsx 1:50 in austria
[00:48:24] <les_w> yeah.
[00:48:28] <les_w> night cncuser
[00:48:32] <robin_sz> still early :)
[00:48:52] <les_w> so...for hobby machine....
[00:49:00] <robin_sz> ahyes
[00:49:14] <robin_sz> ive doen this analysis many times
[00:49:20] <robin_sz> I always end up with
[00:49:26] <robin_sz> fixed gantry
[00:49:28] <robin_sz> moving table
[00:49:28] <les_w> realizing that little and big linear rails cost about the same (within a range)
[00:50:01] <LawrenceG> http://www.haascnc.com/VMC_MODEL_MINIVMC.asp#VMCTreeModel
[00:50:29] <LawrenceG> they do look nice.... would just about fit in the garage
[00:50:31] <les_w> use master linear rail...and spring loaded bearing (casm follower) on a flange on the other side
[00:50:38] <les_w> outrigger
[00:51:06] <les_w> you know?
[00:51:45] <les_w> of course, moving table fixed gantry
[00:52:34] <les_w> thing is...it needs steppers
[00:52:38] <LawrenceG> les_w: use a rollerskate/skateboard wheel as the tensioner... some give if it rolls over a chip, but wont rattle
[00:52:50] <les_w> sure
[00:53:06] <les_w> one fixed, one spring loaded
[00:53:15] <LawrenceG> cam follower on the other side
[00:53:30] <LawrenceG> the rubber wheel is the spring
[00:53:48] <les_w> I tried to think how such an arrangement would compromise performance
[00:54:01] <les_w> and I couldn't think of anything
[00:54:39] <les_w> it eliminates a lot of expensive overconstrained construction.....semi kinematic....
[00:54:54] <les_w> and halfs the number of rails and blocks
[00:55:09] <LawrenceG> a moving table is a good app, because there is a decent baseline to keep table motion stiff and square... space linear bearings on one side about the width of the table apart
[00:55:26] <les_w> right
[00:55:54] <LawrenceG> nice triangles are GOOD
[00:56:12] <Jacky^> im doing some photos at a 'strange' slide ive here ..
[00:56:17] <les_w> yes...seems to have damn few disadvantages really
[00:56:23] <Jacky^> want to upload it in few min
[00:56:44] <LawrenceG> no pushing on a rope.... I still havent got that figured out yet, but there has to be a use
[00:57:08] <les_w> jacky, I think this outrigger thing would be good for your machine too
[00:57:24] <LawrenceG> funny how one remembers 1st year engineering training!
[00:57:29] <les_w> no compromise, but linear rail cost cut in haf practically
[00:57:40] <Jacky^> les_w: I want to show this to you ..
[00:57:45] <les_w> ok
[00:58:24] <robin_sz> les_w: that pretty much the way my big laser is built
[00:58:29] <LawrenceG> les_w: would you use screw drive near the constrained bearing side??
[00:58:45] <les_w> lawrence: haha yeah. Three legged stools don't rock.
[00:58:46] <robin_sz> les_w: one side has a rack and a 30mm linear rail
[00:59:01] <robin_sz> les_w: the other side has a rack and a cam-follower bearing
[00:59:11] <robin_sz> well, 3 actually
[00:59:18] <les_w> hmm
[00:59:34] <Jacky^> les_w: I think the outrigger would be nice
[00:59:37] <robin_sz> two on top, one underneath I think
[00:59:44] <les_w> if moving table, drive placement depends on friction angle
[00:59:59] <robin_sz> well, yeah, but build the table long
[01:00:06] <les_w> concept could be extended to any type of ways really
[01:00:20] <robin_sz> it doesnt save much though does it?
[01:00:52] <robin_sz> the reason they used it on the laser was not to save money
[01:01:01] <robin_sz> it was to allow for thermal expansion of the bed
[01:01:09] <les_w> but jus use one master rail to for lateral and vertical stiffness
[01:01:16] <les_w> othe floats laterally
[01:01:22] <robin_sz> sure ...
[01:01:26] <les_w> yes...thermally stable too
[01:01:28] <robin_sz> it makes it easier to build
[01:01:36] <robin_sz> you can be sloppy with tolerances
[01:01:42] <les_w> especially for hobby kits
[01:01:54] <robin_sz> but not much cheaper I dont think
[01:02:43] <les_w> grout steel with epoxy. machine one nice flat datum in the epoxy for the master
[01:03:30] <robin_sz> nah
[01:03:33] <les_w> ?
[01:03:56] <robin_sz> soon as you said "machine" I saw $$$ signs
[01:04:29] <robin_sz> I'd probably settle for a piece of rolled bright bar
[01:04:41] <robin_sz> cheap enough, and flat to a few thou
[01:04:48] <les_w> yeah
[01:05:07] <les_w> I can't get out of the industrial machine ilk
[01:05:23] <robin_sz> routers are less demanding
[01:05:28] <les_w> That's why i tried this ...for entertainment
[01:05:38] <robin_sz> you dont even need a flat base ...
[01:05:43] <les_w> never tought about hobby maschine design.
[01:05:52] <robin_sz> you can have the router skim itself flat afterwards :)
[01:06:04] <les_w> yes
[01:06:30] <les_w> did that even on the big machine
[01:06:38] <robin_sz> the cheapest way is fixed gantry and moving table
[01:06:44] <les_w> for sure
[01:06:52] <robin_sz> bit more space, but ...
[01:07:07] <les_w> much easier
[01:07:19] <les_w> welded steel I am thinking
[01:07:24] <robin_sz> yeah
[01:07:27] <les_w> not 80/20 or something
[01:07:30] <robin_sz> hmmm ...
[01:07:43] <robin_sz> I have laser, press, powder coat ...
[01:08:47] <les_w> Well we were just looking at those hobby routers on ebay for fun
[01:08:52] <les_w> what junk
[01:08:56] <robin_sz> yep
[01:09:05] <robin_sz> a welded steel one would cost no more
[01:09:06] <les_w> designed by a chimpanzee...
[01:09:11] <robin_sz> and be so much better
[01:09:17] <Jacky^> ok, that is absolute not for my machine, but my cousin sayd he can build a similar rails with home and cheap materials
[01:09:22] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/guida.jpg
[01:09:29] <les_w> looking
[01:09:39] <Jacky^> how it seem to you as 'type' ?
[01:09:50] <robin_sz> useless
[01:10:00] <Jacky^> it use 6 bearings
[01:10:06] <robin_sz> still useless
[01:10:13] <Jacky^> :P
[01:10:16] <les_w> to costly
[01:10:21] <les_w> for hobby
[01:10:29] <robin_sz> yeah .. costs too much
[01:10:36] <Jacky^> les_w: yes, for a cheap machine
[01:10:40] <robin_sz> Igus rail is better and cheaper
[01:10:43] <Jacky^> cost too much ?
[01:10:47] <robin_sz> yeah
[01:10:53] <Jacky^> strange ..
[01:10:55] <robin_sz> same as Jymmm's machine ...
[01:11:01] <Jacky^> he sayd could be cheap
[01:11:09] <robin_sz> hes wrong
[01:11:20] <les_w> 4 skate bearings on the outrigger side
[01:11:22] <robin_sz> it costs more than proper linear rail
[01:11:38] <Jacky^> mmmm ok
[01:12:03] <robin_sz> the guys who err "designed" jymms machine started doing that
[01:12:19] <robin_sz> then they realised and started shipping linear rail instead
[01:12:22] <Jacky^> :(
[01:12:28] <les_w> remember...abba rail 20mm $93/ meter unit quantity
[01:12:43] <Jacky^> les_w: yeah, sure
[01:13:09] <les_w> but just use one per axis!
[01:13:10] <robin_sz> yeah, but an equivalent linear rail to that sort Jacky^ showed, would only be 15mm rail
[01:13:27] <les_w> right
[01:13:36] <robin_sz> its just so bendy
[01:13:52] <robin_sz> and costs too much to buld the roller system
[01:14:06] <robin_sz> 6 cam followers cost way more than on linear carriage
[01:14:30] <robin_sz> 15mm carriage is less than 30 euros from HiWin
[01:14:38] <les_w> heck a polymer slide would prob be ok on an outrigger
[01:14:43] <robin_sz> yep
[01:14:45] <robin_sz> Igus :)
[01:14:51] <les_w> yeah.
[01:16:38] <les_w> 15 mm rail for master.... polymer slide and tensioner for outrigger....easy...thermally stable....semi kinematic
[01:17:53] <les_w> zero backlash...
[01:19:30] <les_w> slider or skate bearings could be on bright steel yeah
[01:19:43] <les_w> cold drwan we call it
[01:19:48] <les_w> drawn
[01:20:02] <Jacky^> hey guys, look at that nice machine here: http://www.infodelta.it/meccaniche.htm
[01:20:10] <les_w> looking
[01:20:27] <Jacky^> i was found this website mounth ago .. and I send some email to ask
[01:20:38] <Jacky^> they do not sell to private people ..
[01:20:57] <Jacky^> alex tried to ask for the small cnc too
[01:21:25] <Jacky^> and they replyed they ship only a container for at least 20k euro
[01:21:27] <Jacky^> ghghghg
[01:21:37] <les_w> hmm 1700 euro for the router
[01:21:39] <Jacky^> no one can buy there
[01:21:48] <les_w> cannot see details from the picture
[01:22:04] <Jacky^> E. 1.300 the small cnc seems nice
[01:22:22] <Jacky^> http://www.infodelta.it/index_en.htm
[01:22:44] <Jacky^> this is the homepage, that i cant see very good with my browser
[01:22:50] <Jacky^> strange ..
[01:23:26] <Jacky^> and alex ask as society too
[01:23:31] <les_w> hard to see but I think y axis is single rail and outrigger!!
[01:23:32] <Jacky^> nothing to do ..
[01:24:11] <les_w> you see?
[01:24:23] <Jacky^> not well ..
[01:24:29] <les_w> bottom rail on y seems to be a linear rail like abba
[01:24:37] <les_w> top rail seems different
[01:24:52] <Jacky^> yes, could be
[01:24:53] <les_w> like I describe before
[01:26:08] <les_w> see no bolt hole on top
[01:26:14] <les_w> holes
[01:26:19] <les_w> it is!!!
[01:26:35] <Jacky^> found ?
[01:26:58] <les_w> outrigger design. Just looking at the same picture more closely.
[01:27:12] <robin_sz> another good system for the Y axis is V shaped track with err, V groove wheels
[01:27:14] <les_w> i'm sure
[01:27:15] <robin_sz> self cleaning
[01:27:29] <robin_sz> used on the tool changer on the Haas
[01:27:32] <les_w> yeah
[01:28:10] <les_w> plenty of line contact, so not much scuffing wear
[01:28:16] <robin_sz> the differential radii of the contact patch tend to wipe muck away from the centre of the rail to the outside
[01:28:23] <les_w> right
[01:28:50] <Jymmm> les_w ?
[01:28:54] <les_w> hey
[01:28:57] <robin_sz> meep
[01:29:04] <Jymmm> les_w got a few?
[01:29:07] <Jacky^> hi Jymmm
[01:29:09] <robin_sz> that sign you made was quite nice, impressed.
[01:29:15] <les_w> yeah
[01:30:47] <robin_sz> I didnt think that little router would ever actually, work, but the Harley sign was pretty neat
[01:31:18] <les_w> yeah things looking better
[01:31:21] <Jacky^> robin_sz: seen my jobs ?
[01:31:23] <Jacky^> :)
[01:31:44] <robin_sz> URL?
[01:31:58] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/photos/lab/lab.html
[01:32:23] <Jacky^> after I burned 15-20 bit
[01:32:39] <Jacky^> and ruined 50-60 pieces
[01:32:48] <Jacky^> i got them ! LOL
[01:33:04] <robin_sz> heh
[01:33:06] <robin_sz> nice
[01:33:23] <Jacky^> robin_sz: really* nice for the machine I use !
[01:33:27] <robin_sz> yeah
[01:33:31] <Jacky^> hahaha
[01:35:14] <Jacky^> an you ? are cutting metal in these days ?
[01:38:04] <robin_sz> yeah
[01:38:05] <robin_sz> lots
[01:38:13] <Jacky^> good :)
[01:38:26] <robin_sz> we had a good spell a few weeks ago
[01:38:35] <robin_sz> cut 22 tonnes in 6 weeks
[01:38:44] <Jacky^> wow
[01:39:22] <robin_sz> right bedtime ...
[01:39:31] <Jacky^> yeah for me too
[01:39:37] <Jacky^> G night robin_sz
[01:39:44] <robin_sz> night
[01:43:52] <Jacky^> night
[01:44:00] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[01:50:59] <CIA-8> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/configs/sim/README: Sample of readme function
[01:51:16] <djb_rh_> djb_rh_ is now known as djb_rh
[01:53:38] <CIA-8> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/bin/setupconfig.tcl: partial directory copy script
[01:59:16] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh_away
[02:19:23] <CIA-8> 03swpadnos * 10emc2/tcl/bin/setupconfig.tcl: Changed the search to only look for directories. This will also prevent the setup tool from seeing .ini files in the configs/ dir.
[05:40:02] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (15 files in 11 dirs): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Tue Dec 13 05:30:01 GMT 2005 "
[05:58:39] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWP_Away
[09:30:49] <anonimasu> time for another fight with the server
[10:48:07] <Yuga> can some one here maybe help me? i got a transformer with 110v out, and now i wanna put it through a rectifier, and then through a cap. what will my end voltage be? is there a formula or something?
[10:51:21] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[10:51:25] <Jacky^> morning
[10:51:54] <Jacky^> hi Yuga , 110 V ac ?
[10:52:04] <Yuga> yep
[10:52:09] <Yuga> morning Jacky^
[10:52:16] <Yuga> need to convert it to dc
[10:52:32] <Yuga> i know there is a voltage change when rectifying... just dont know what it is
[10:52:42] <Jacky^> I think would be 158.4 DC
[10:53:17] <Yuga> hmm... so if i wanted 120v dc... what size transformer would i need :)
[10:53:22] <Yuga> that is where my problem is lying
[10:54:16] <Jacky^> im not 100% sure, but the formula would be AC * 1.44 = DC
[10:55:22] <Yuga> well atleast i have something to go by now :)
[10:55:29] <Yuga> before i was shooting in the dark
[10:55:37] <Yuga> just didnt know it was asmuch as 1.44
[11:00:24] <Yuga> Jacky^... http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/powersup.htm seems you where close :) they say 1.4
[11:00:55] <Jacky^> yeah, right
[11:01:24] <Jacky^> for the capacitors about 1000 uf/ampere would be ok too
[11:04:20] <Jacky^> and for the caps voltage you should stay about 1/3 up the nominal DC voltage
[11:04:33] <Jacky^> i think youll get big size capacitors
[11:04:55] <Yuga> well i think i will be needing 150v cap
[11:05:05] <Yuga> problem is that they are REALY expencive :)
[11:05:35] <Jacky^> yeah.. may you can find something as surplus
[11:05:48] <Jacky^> components
[11:06:07] <Yuga> problem with that is if i ever need more i am not going to be able to find them :)
[11:06:21] <Jacky^> how much current ?
[11:06:25] <Yuga> would perfure to buy something i can probibly find in a years time again
[11:06:27] <Jacky^> do you have
[11:06:45] <Yuga> need 10 amps at 120v dc
[11:06:52] <Yuga> 220 input voltage
[11:08:10] <Jacky^> toroidal transformer amy would be a nice choice ..
[11:08:25] <Jacky^> what is ? hi-fi amplifier ?
[11:08:28] <Yuga> yes... i know... but not the easyest thing to find here in sa :(
[11:08:39] <Yuga> even nicer would be a switching powersupply
[11:08:46] <Yuga> amplifier
[11:08:50] <Jacky^> yeah
[11:09:27] <Yuga> Yuga 110 * sqrt(2) <--- the answer :) what's the sqrt of 2 thou :)
[11:10:07] <Yuga> 1.4142135623730950488016887242097
[11:11:06] <Yuga> need 85volts
[11:11:47] <Jacky^> yeah, probably right
[11:12:13] <Yuga> lol... and to think the chap i phoned said i will need about 115v to get 120volts :)
[11:12:22] <Yuga> glad i thought he was talking shit
[11:12:50] <anonimasu> heh
[11:12:59] <anonimasu> how do you get more voltage with less voltage?
[11:13:17] <anonimasu> ^_^
[11:13:27] <Yuga> converting from ac to dc
[11:13:40] <anonimasu> ah yeah..
[11:13:41] <Yuga> you get a gain when you put in the capacitor
[11:13:54] <anonimasu> hm why not use a rectifier?
[11:14:09] <anonimasu> I do that with my welder..
[11:14:10] <anonimasu> ;)
[11:14:21] <Yuga> well first a rectifier... and then a cap
[11:14:53] <anonimasu> ah ok :)
[11:15:09] <anonimasu> you get the gain when recifying it btw, not from the cap :)
[11:15:21] <Yuga> is it possible to make 12v dc higher?
[11:15:28] <Yuga> something i have always wondered
[11:15:39] <anonimasu> higher_
[11:15:46] <Jacky^> hi anonimasu
[11:15:54] <anonimasu> ?
[11:15:56] <anonimasu> hey jacky
[11:16:01] <anonimasu> what's up?
[11:16:07] <Jacky^> Yuga: probably possible, as in the hi-fi car amplifiers
[11:16:19] <Jacky^> I think not good in your case
[11:16:24] <Yuga> any one know of a website where i can buy cap's? the only place i was able to find was in london... and london prices suck
[11:16:29] <anonimasu> if you have a inverter you can..
[11:16:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has a neat inverter in a project at work
[11:16:58] <anonimasu> alfatronics
[11:17:02] <anonimasu> it's a magic device..
[11:17:06] <anonimasu> costs like 200$
[11:17:08] <anonimasu> though :)
[11:17:12] <anonimasu> but its magic..
[11:17:27] <Jacky^> anonimasu: from to ?
[11:17:29] <anonimasu> no I think it's a bit more then 200$..
[11:17:35] <anonimasu> 12 to 24
[11:17:52] <anonimasu> the input voltage can drop to 9v without affecting the output voltage if you dont load it too much..
[11:19:08] <Jacky^> nice
[11:19:21] <anonimasu> the guys that designed it must be magicians..
[11:19:33] <anonimasu> we had trouble with the other inverter off mascot fscking with us..
[11:19:43] <anonimasu> did drop in output voltage or vary..
[11:19:48] <anonimasu> that's death to electronics :/
[11:21:33] <Jacky^> Yuga: rscomponents could be a nice place to look
[11:21:53] <Jacky^> but expensive ..
[11:23:05] <Yuga> friggin hell.. i have a lag
[11:23:25] <Yuga> i just got that all now
[11:23:54] <Yuga> anonimasu... i'm sure the website i was just at said u get the voltage gain from the cap... but hey... i could be wrong :)
[11:25:00] <anonimasu> hm I am running debian off a usb stick now
[11:25:04] <anonimasu> atleast the install
[11:25:13] <anonimasu> neat
[11:26:14] <Jacky^> Yuga: http://www.e-transformer.com.tw/toroidal.htm
[11:27:05] <Yuga> thanks
[11:27:27] <Yuga> taking a look
[11:28:30] <Jacky^> they may work on request at any voltage
[11:28:44] <Jacky^> making your own transformer
[11:30:43] <Jacky^> I bought a toroidal here years ago, but the voltage was about 70 V DC (dual output)
[11:31:01] <Jacky^> I payed a lot of money for that :(
[11:31:20] <Yuga> friggin hell.. i dont wanna pay alot... they must give it to me cheap!!!
[11:31:23] <Jacky^> now 120 V dc out seem to me a lot
[11:32:02] <Jacky^> it seems to me a bit 'out of standard' too
[11:32:23] <Jacky^> probably hard to find ready to use
[11:32:47] <Yuga> well it needs... 220 in... 85v out 10 amps
[11:32:47] <Yuga> thats what i need
[11:32:50] <Yuga> but not to find the bugger
[11:33:32] <Jacky^> whats the final side ?
[11:33:43] <Jacky^> transistors, Igbt , ?
[11:33:51] <Yuga> 85v out 10 amps
[11:36:13] <Jacky^> ive no idea about transistor or mosfet using that voltage
[11:36:44] <Jacky^> in most cases ive seen to get more power peoples use bridge amplifiers
[11:36:48] <Jacky^> cascade
[11:38:42] <Yuga> well that just sux...
[11:38:57] <Jacky^> I wonder if is possible to use 2 transformer in series
[11:39:07] <Yuga> transformers suck... wonder if there is any one out there who makes custome switching power supplies :)
[11:39:11] <Yuga> that's what i need
[11:41:22] <Yuga> not a clue
[11:41:57] <delacroix> jacky: yep you can use em in series to boost output voltage, or parallel to boost va rating
[11:42:26] <anonimasu> Yuga: you are looking at several 1000$ for stuff like that
[11:42:32] <anonimasu> large power supplies :)
[11:43:33] <Yuga> anonimasu... well the last one i found was 160$
[11:43:53] <Jacky^> delacroix: good
[11:43:54] <Yuga> not quite several 1000 $ :)
[11:44:02] <Jacky^> Yuga: it seem to me a nice price
[11:44:09] <delacroix> jacky: 85v 10 amps isnt too large, have 80v 20amp torroid that im using in the lab, think we paid �50 for it
[11:44:53] <Yuga> 50 pounds isnt that bad
[11:44:55] <Jacky^> delacroix: nice, first time I eard
[11:44:56] <Yuga> delacroix... about how much the bugger weigh?
[11:45:22] <Jacky^> I got my own transformer just requesting it made by hand !
[11:45:38] <delacroix> yuga: is in an old unregulated rackmount psu, bloody heavy
[11:46:45] <Yuga> http://www.trcelectronics.com/Cosel/pdf/pba1500f.pdf <---- nice... but to little voltage :<
[11:46:50] <Yuga> only 48
[11:46:59] <Yuga> but i guess the 35 amps is abit excessive :)
[11:47:28] <Jacky^> ugh from 10 to 35 ..
[11:47:49] <Jacky^> are just 25 amp :)
[11:47:50] <Yuga> still to low voltage
[11:47:57] <Yuga> half of what i need
[11:49:41] <Jacky^> Yuga: id look in a surplus shop
[11:49:54] <delacroix> try www.surpluscenter.com
[11:50:02] <Jacky^> but have no idea about websites right now
[11:50:10] <Jacky^> delacroix: yeah
[11:50:22] <Yuga> wish that there just wasnt sooooo much crap on google
[11:54:02] <delacroix> one thing you might be able to get is a transformer winding kit, where the primaries done, and you wind your secondary of choice, maplin.co.uk used to sell em, depends how much work you want to make for yourself
[11:58:28] <Yuga> easy to find switching powersupplies... just difficult to find the correct voltage
[12:58:41] <delacroix> jacky: in case your still looking farnell stocks a 2x45v secondary transformer with 1000va rating, that would give u just over 10 amps per transformer
[12:58:59] <delacroix> and its cost new is �48.85
[12:59:22] <delacroix> have been shopping for psus myself today, have a robot to build
[12:59:58] <Jacky^> delacroix: thanks, but Yuga is looking fot that
[13:00:00] <Jacky^> :)
[13:00:11] <delacroix> sorry, not really with it today
[13:00:19] <Jacky^> ;-)
[13:01:18] <Jacky^> delacroix: are you interested in robot ? nice
[13:01:59] <Jacky^> im building this: http://www.deagostiniedicola.it/frontend/home_prodotto.asp?prodID=90
[13:02:08] <delacroix> im studying for a phd in cybernetics, so i get to build loads of cool toys
[13:02:20] <Jacky^> cool :)
[13:03:27] <delacroix> http://www.isrg.reading.ac.uk/haptics/index.htm
[13:03:31] <delacroix> some of the stuff we do
[13:04:11] <Jacky^> really nice , congrats
[13:04:44] <delacroix> friend of mine has built a cool little robot recently, it works like a segway, it has two wheels and uses accelerometers to balance on them whilst moving, so it can go over rough terrain and stay upright
[13:06:41] <Jacky^> interesting
[13:07:26] <Jacky^> Id like to learn more about aero-robot
[13:07:53] <Jacky^> such small helicpoter with autopilot
[13:11:14] <delacroix> had some friends doing a small helecopter project two years ago, it wasnt that great, but the idea was sound. It was an electric rc helecopter kit, with an onboard embedded computer, ultrasonic collision detection, and a webcam for vision
[13:11:37] <delacroix> could lift off, navigate the corridors of the building, and land on a target on the floor
[13:12:09] <Jacky^> hehe
[13:12:23] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[13:14:22] <Jacky^> delacroix: this is weird http://stor.altervista.org/4c/4c.php
[13:14:54] <Jacky^> i was really impressed by videos on this page http://www.draganfly.com/
[13:19:36] <Jacky^> I like the Draganflyer X-Pro
[13:19:58] <delacroix> the dragonfly is a pain in the ass, thats what they were using, and its load capacity is tiny, plus it has like 10 mins flying time on a good day
[13:21:26] <delacroix> also for what it is (4 motors, gyro board and battery) its quite expensive
[13:22:01] <delacroix> i reckon you could build a far better one for a fraction of the cost
[13:23:46] <delacroix> anyway ive got to go do some work on campus now, so will be afk for a while, later
[13:23:57] <Jacky^> later
[14:09:21] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[15:13:53] <rayh> morning ken
[15:31:14] <lerman> morning rayh
[15:46:54] <rayh> hi alex
[15:54:20] <alex_joni> hi rayh
[15:54:58] <rayh> jmk and I are both working on tcl configuration.
[15:55:10] <alex_joni> nice..
[15:55:27] <alex_joni> I need to get home to look at it. still at work right now
[15:55:57] <rayh> Let me email you his. Mine is in sf.
[15:56:09] <alex_joni> does anyone know anything about measuring arms? like this: http://www.sheffieldmeasurement.com/sigmaarm.shtml
[15:56:17] <alex_joni> rayh: please do ..
[15:58:30] <rayh> interesting arm.
[15:58:51] <alex_joni> fenn: do you know anything about 6-dof measuring arms?
[15:58:56] <alex_joni> like this: http://www.sheffieldmeasurement.com/sigmaarm.shtml
[15:59:18] <fenn> they are expensive
[15:59:19] <SWP_Away> high res resolvers at each joint, a little math, and presto! - you've got 6D endpoint info
[15:59:24] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos_
[15:59:40] <alex_joni> SWPadnos_: that's what I want
[16:00:04] <SWPadnos_> which, the math, or the arm? ;)
[16:00:12] <fenn> i'd doubt you could very good precision out of it
[16:00:32] <alex_joni> I need +/-0.1 mm at the tip
[16:00:35] <alex_joni> even lower
[16:00:44] <alex_joni> so not very much precision
[16:00:54] <fenn> DIY?
[16:01:09] <alex_joni> not sure I can
[16:01:19] <alex_joni> and get something ok out of it
[16:01:22] <fenn> I love how it doesn't actually tell you the resolution
[16:01:34] <alex_joni> it needs to be pretty robust
[16:01:42] <alex_joni> I had a thought ;)
[16:01:55] <alex_joni> wanna use such a device for teach-in programming for the robots :P
[16:02:23] <SWPadnos_> for your robots, you should use the encoders that are already on the joints
[16:02:50] <SWPadnos_> put the controller in "DRO" mode, and just hit a button to save the pose
[16:02:57] <alex_joni> yeah.. but the robot is 250 kg
[16:03:02] <alex_joni> can't easily move it by hand
[16:03:13] <alex_joni> it's rather cumbersome
[16:03:23] <SWPadnos_> make a manual powered mode
[16:03:56] <fenn> there are probably safety regulations to deal with also
[16:04:12] <Yuga> how would one figure out how much amperage is required to drive a amplifier well... any one have any idea's on this?
[16:04:21] <rayh> EMC's probe stuff could capture the touch contact at the end of the arm.
[16:04:28] <SWPadnos_> the current depends more on the motor, I think
[16:05:14] <alex_joni> yuga a bit more than the motor rating
[16:06:18] <SWPadnos_> get one of these instead: http://www.ascension-tech.com/products/6dmouse.php
[16:06:35] <SWPadnos_> or any of their other measurement devices - they're all cool
[16:07:01] <SWPadnos_> though you'd need one of the more accurate ones
[16:07:21] <fenn> cant you do this stuff with LED's and a couple cameras nowadays?
[16:07:35] <alex_joni> fenn: not industrial grade
[16:10:33] <SWPadnos_> that arm is +- 0.024 mm for the 6-foot length, and 0.11 mm for the 17-foot version
[16:12:20] <rayh> The encoders would have to be very high resolution to see small rotational differences.
[16:12:49] <alex_joni> I'm thinking 10000 counts / rev
[16:12:52] <alex_joni> or the like
[16:13:32] <SWPadnos_> closer to 50k, I think
[16:13:46] <fenn> 90K?
[16:14:12] <fenn> sorry 76K
[16:14:23] <SWPadnos_> I may have missed an atan in tehre somewhere, but 0.11mm in a 17-foor radius is pretty darned accurate
[16:16:01] <fenn> i bet you could do better with a couple telescopes and some LED's
[16:16:25] <SWPadnos_> probably not, in terms of user interface ;)
[16:16:30] <fenn> well, no
[16:17:24] <SWPadnos_> even digital cameras and LEDs wouldn't be that good
[16:17:43] <fenn> why not?
[16:17:48] <fenn> accuracy issues aside
[16:17:59] <SWPadnos_> well - it's all about accuracy
[16:18:06] <SWPadnos_> but you'd also have issues with setup
[16:18:21] <SWPadnos_> you need the cameras to be very well aligned on perpendicular axes
[16:18:45] <fenn> uh, not really
[16:18:46] <rayh> or apply kinematics to the returned images;
[16:18:51] <fenn> rayh: exactly
[16:19:00] <SWPadnos_> if only I still had the 3D untethered measurement system we made about 15 years ago ;)
[16:19:07] <rayh> talk about a monster.
[16:19:25] <SWPadnos_> but you'd still need very precuise knowledge of the actual position of the cameras
[16:19:42] <fenn> you would have to calibrate it with an object with known dimensions
[16:19:47] <SWPadnos_> or some very nice length standards to calculate it from
[16:20:03] <SWPadnos_> ok - so your accuracy would be no better than the standard used for calibration
[16:20:11] <alex_joni> fenn: imagine I need to use this inside a workpiece
[16:20:22] <alex_joni> or some kind of fixture is blocking 50% of the view
[16:20:26] <alex_joni> not gonna work
[16:21:10] <SWPadnos_> the sonar system we made would work, but setup can be a bit of a pain
[16:21:49] <SWPadnos_> these days, it could probably have the resolution you're looking for (it was around 2mm over a 200 foot cubic volume, back in the 8051 days)
[16:21:51] <rayh> need to run it like the transmit/receive stuff on an MRI or CAT setup.
[16:22:17] <SWPadnos_> no - 200 foot radius hemisphere, not cube
[16:22:41] <alex_joni> SWPadnos_: think you miscalculated that..
[16:22:46] <alex_joni> I don't want one big arm
[16:22:53] <SWPadnos_> this was untethered
[16:22:57] <alex_joni> I have small joints, each with it's own precision
[16:23:06] <SWPadnos_> you carry a small unit around, and hit a button to get the coordinates
[16:24:06] <alex_joni> 6 dofs?
[16:24:10] <alex_joni> or only XYZ?
[16:24:14] <SWPadnos_> no, only 3 for that one
[16:24:25] <alex_joni> guess that
[16:24:29] <alex_joni> I thought of DGPS
[16:24:36] <alex_joni> but .. problems inside
[16:24:39] <SWPadnos_> hard to do inside though
[16:24:49] <alex_joni> yup
[16:24:53] <SWPadnos_> what's the budget (if there is one)?
[16:24:56] <alex_joni> so the best way would be an arm
[16:25:03] <alex_joni> on devel? or product?
[16:25:07] <SWPadnos_> product
[16:25:10] <alex_joni> dunno :D
[16:25:12] <SWPadnos_> heh
[16:25:21] <alex_joni> offline software is about 15-20k
[16:25:24] <alex_joni> so less than that
[16:25:26] <SWPadnos_> or is this something to be sold to customers for teaching their robots?
[16:25:30] <alex_joni> yes
[16:25:37] <SWPadnos_> ah - OK, then devel ;)
[16:25:46] <alex_joni> big customers, which have more than one robot
[16:26:00] <SWPadnos_> ok - so they want to move the thihng around
[16:26:19] <SWPadnos_> check out the flock of birds from Ascension tech
[16:26:35] <alex_joni> it's not intended to stay on the robot
[16:27:03] <SWPadnos_> nope
[16:27:14] <SWPadnos_> you move the base, and the sensors go with it
[16:32:38] <anonimasu> hm
[16:32:44] <anonimasu> alex_joni: custom stuff?
[16:37:18] <alex_joni> anonimasu: probably
[16:47:03] <anonimasu> hm ok
[16:53:35] <alex_joni> not fully sure
[16:53:47] <anonimasu> why not?
[16:53:56] <anonimasu> alex_joni: arent you building something?
[16:54:04] <cncuser> hi :)
[16:55:05] <alex_joni> hello
[16:57:45] <cncuser> jepler: are you there ?
[16:59:00] <jepler> cncuser: yep
[16:59:15] <jepler> cncuser: what's up?
[16:59:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni smells python stuff
[17:01:20] <jepler> I'll answer your Python question, but in return you have to contribute a 40V 10A power supply to the AXIS developers.
[17:02:23] <alex_joni> keep dreaming :P
[17:02:55] <jepler> the one that runs cradek's machine died
[17:03:30] <SWPadnos_> oh - so now you want to test with real hardware - great ;)
[17:04:48] <cncuser> jepler: i didnt manage to get your ulp to output gcode. i allways get a empty ngc :(
[17:05:16] <cradek> jepler: I bought that supply from someone on the channel - I just don't remember who it was
[17:05:30] <cradek> jepler: I wish whoever it was had another one to sell me!
[17:05:35] <jepler> cncuser: oh -- I think that version from cvs may just create a file in /tmp that you have to run with the "scr" command
[17:05:42] <fenn> once a sucker, always a sucker
[17:06:01] <cradek> fenn: it was a great supply, but like all switchers, one day it didn't work anymore
[17:06:01] <cncuser> jepler: hmm
[17:06:14] <jepler> cncuser: try entering this command at the eagle prompt: scr /tmp/command.scr
[17:06:40] <jepler> cncuser: after running gcode.ulp
[17:06:44] <cncuser> ok
[17:07:00] <jepler> if the screen flashes several times that means it probably worked
[17:07:31] <cncuser> cool, it did something :)
[17:08:01] <jepler> did you get an ngc file now?
[17:08:12] <cncuser> jepler: yes, you da man :))
[17:08:39] <cncuser> i need to reboot to see what emc says :)
[17:08:47] <jepler> see you later
[17:08:48] <jepler> btw http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/downloads/01103508580
[17:08:59] <jepler> oh well, too late
[17:11:17] <cncuser> back :)
[17:12:12] <fenn> jepler: what was all the scr stuff about?
[17:14:41] <jepler> cncuser: http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/downloads/01103508580
[17:15:23] <jepler> fenn: eagle's scripting is a bit .. strange. There's the "user language" which can do things like if, while, and create output to files, and then there's the "script language" which can do things like change the board.
[17:15:53] <fenn> oh
[17:15:54] <cncuser> jepler: cool, should i run it against the gcode data ?
[17:16:17] <jepler> fenn: to find the tool path to mill the traces, you create a polygon that eagle intersects with the traces, and then output ngc commands that go along the border of the polygon
[17:16:38] <jepler> fenn: but that involves running an ulp that creates an scr which creates a polygon and then runs the same ulp again but with different parameters
[17:17:18] <jepler> cncuser: running the program from that url on the .ngc file that gcode.ulp created will reduce the length of the G0 moves by reordering them in a safe way.
[17:17:20] <Yuga> any one know of a cheap online store where i can buy some capasitors?
[17:17:47] <jepler> Yuga: In the US I buy mostly from www.mouser.com, though www.jameco.com and www.digikey.com both have large catalogs too.
[17:18:05] <jepler> yuga: however, shipping is generally $6 at least, which makes small orders impractical
[17:18:07] <cncuser> jepler: i see
[17:18:16] <fenn> yuga you should probably mention that you need 150V 10,000 uf capacitors
[17:19:40] <fenn> yuga http://futurlec.com/CapHVElectro.shtml
[17:19:46] <cncuser> jepler: nice :)
[17:20:12] <anonimasu> heh
[17:20:14] <fenn> http://www.thlaudio.com/bhcapitme.htm
[17:20:18] <anonimasu> 6$ is nothing in shipping really
[17:20:31] <anonimasu> over here you pay like 14$f
[17:20:37] <Yuga> oh yes... i need a 10, 000uf 150v capacitor :)
[17:20:39] <anonimasu> or well about 10 eur..
[17:20:47] <anonimasu> for shipping
[17:21:34] <fenn> hmmm that page used to have links to each product's page
[17:21:46] <jepler> anonimasu: it is if you want 20 LEDs @ $0.17 each or something like that
[17:22:00] <Yuga> finaly found what friggin current i need to be able to draw with these amps...i was 1 amp out :)
[17:22:16] <anonimasu> I've flown stuff that weighs like 20grams, ;)
[17:22:20] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[17:22:25] <Jacky^> evening
[17:22:27] <jepler> Yuga: 150V 12000uF $37.32USD qty 1, $31.72 qty 25: http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=442484&e_categoryid=387&e_pcodeid=75007
[17:22:28] <anonimasu> kind of horris
[17:22:31] <anonimasu> horrid
[17:22:57] <Yuga> actualy difficult to believe how expencive they are
[17:23:07] <jepler> those are "computer grade", whatever that means
[17:23:09] <Yuga> maybe cheaper to buy 2 smaler ones instead :)
[17:23:18] <Jacky^> anyone remeber a command to search only for file up to 100 mb in a disk ?
[17:23:21] <fenn> "computer grade" means "i will blow up if you look at me wrong"
[17:23:32] <Yuga> lol
[17:23:35] <anonimasu> yep
[17:23:40] <Jacky^> find -size 100000000c is it correct ?
[17:23:50] <jepler> Jacky^: find ... -size +100000k
[17:24:02] <Jacky^> jepler: ta
[17:24:05] <jepler> the + means greater than
[17:24:10] <jepler> jacky's will only find with exactly the stated size
[17:24:23] <Jacky^> uhmm no..
[17:24:31] <Jacky^> any file up to 100 mb
[17:24:54] <jepler> then you want -10000k, for less than
[17:25:22] <Jacky^> tryng ..
[17:27:18] <Jacky^> with + option seem work ok
[17:27:53] <Jacky^> wow
[17:28:06] <Jacky^> /dev/hda4 36384624 29692880 4843468 86% /
[17:28:09] <Jacky^> ;)
[17:28:30] <Jacky^> found some zombie ripdvd file ..
[17:29:07] <jepler> Yuga: http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=190113&Row=360751&Site=US
[17:30:31] <jepler> (200V 10000uF also around $40 qty 1)
[17:31:43] <cncuser> hmm, damit, i allready forgot everything about how to calculate input / outputscale :(
[17:32:00] <Jacky^> cncuser: thats not simple at all
[17:32:05] <SWPadnos_> in the ini file?
[17:32:10] <Jacky^> depend on a lot of things :(
[17:32:23] <Jacky^> especially using pinion reductors
[17:32:37] <cncuser> Jacky^: well, the steps and the length of movement on one full turn
[17:32:50] <cncuser> but i dont remember how to calculate
[17:33:10] <SWPadnos_> cncuser: steppers or servos?
[17:33:27] <cncuser> SWPadnos_: steppers, and i have 3 millimeter movement on a full turn
[17:33:59] <SWPadnos_> that's per full turn of the motor shaft?
[17:34:07] <cncuser> yes
[17:34:24] <cncuser> in german its calles spindel steigung, dont know the english word
[17:34:34] <SWPadnos_> ok, and how many microsteps (or halfsteps) per full step?
[17:34:47] <cncuser> lets assume 1/4 steps
[17:35:12] <SWPadnos_> and this is final movement of 300, after all drive belts / pulleys, etc?
[17:35:18] <SWPadnos_> not 300, 3mm
[17:35:26] <cncuser> hmmm
[17:35:30] <cncuser> dunno :)
[17:35:37] <SWPadnos_> well - that would be good to know ;)
[17:35:44] <SWPadnos_> the general formula is:
[17:36:24] <SWPadnos_> (steps per motor revolution) * (motor shaft to screw drive ratio) * (number of screw turns per length unit)
[17:36:41] <cncuser> cool :)
[17:36:56] <SWPadnos_> in your case, you have 800 turns, I'll assume 1:1 drive, and 3mm traveled, so the scale is 800 * 1 / 3 or 266.6666666666666666666666
[17:37:22] <SWPadnos_> (i inverted the 3mm to get 1/3 turn per mm)
[17:37:22] <fenn> steps/rev * rev/rev * rev/mm = steps/mm
[17:37:34] <SWPadnos_> yep - always balance units
[17:38:32] <cncuser> swpadnos, my calculation ;)
[17:39:02] <SWPadnos_> man - 800 steps, that was supposed to be (I need to proofread better)
[17:41:00] <cncuser> hmm, well need to gather some infos, i millimter is about 6 millimeter :)
[17:41:33] <SWPadnos_> do you have the drive in 1/4 step mode?
[17:46:27] <cncuser> SWPadnos_: i assume it, how can i tell ?
[17:47:02] <SWPadnos_> you could set emc to 200 steps/mm, then command a 1mm move, and see if the shaft makes 1 turn or 1/4 turn
[17:47:45] <cncuser> INPUT_SCALE = 266 0
[17:47:46] <cncuser> OUTPUT_SCALE = 1.000 0.000
[17:47:56] <cncuser> ok
[17:48:19] <cncuser> so i say input_scale = 200
[17:48:37] <SWPadnos_> yes
[17:49:00] <SWPadnos_> you may want to disconnect the motor
[17:49:09] <SWPadnos_> that way, you can do experiments without breaking anything
[17:49:17] <cncuser> hehe
[17:50:48] <dave-e> just a general question.................
[17:51:07] <SWPadnos_> I can give you a sergeant answer :)
[17:51:18] <dave-e> I'm looking for something to convert small segmetns in g-code to arcs
[17:51:32] <fenn> good luck
[17:51:42] <SWPadnos_> heh - that's what I was going to say ;)
[17:52:00] <dave-e> swp...you know what 2/3rds of a pun is?
[17:52:30] <fenn> PU
[17:52:37] <dave-e> yep!
[17:53:10] <cncuser> i gett that many out of smething ad other errors, is there a way to diable all secutrity ?
[17:53:18] <cncuser> just for getting it going i mean
[17:53:41] <fenn> try sudo
[17:54:00] <fenn> or su
[17:54:21] <dave-e> gonna run...go make chips
[17:56:28] <anonimasu> hm slashdot 503:ed
[18:00:01] <chinamill> * chinamill is away: eating
[18:04:20] <cncuser> fenn: hehe, i mean the emc security stuff ;)
[18:08:35] <fenn> cncuser: I dont know what you mean
[18:11:06] <Jymmm> emc has security?
[18:12:22] <operose> hello
[19:04:52] <alex_joni> jepler: you around?
[19:33:41] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/scripts/emc.run: marked emc.run as obsolete, eventually it will get removed
[19:40:10] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/scripts/emc.in: added sudo to the KillTaskWithTimeout, some processes might have been started as root, only root can kill them now
[20:25:13] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/docs/INSTALL: added info about the new runscript
[20:27:05] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/README: added quickstart info to README, this also exists under docs/INSTALL
[20:32:48] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[20:32:49] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[20:34:02] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/docs/NEWS: added some information to news, developers should add important changes & bugfixes in here
[20:35:43] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/scripts/emc.in: added sudo to the gentle kill aswell, the delay killing an app with -9 is too big for normal use
[20:46:48] <anonimasu> hm
[20:47:15] <alex_joni> anonimasu: what?
[20:49:38] <anonimasu> I just got back in..
[20:49:49] <anonimasu> going to try to get the Z axis assembly finished this week
[20:50:06] <anonimasu> rotating nut :)
[20:50:16] <alex_joni> I know you are
[20:50:20] <alex_joni> :P
[20:50:28] <anonimasu> heh..
[20:50:58] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I've got a final design done ;)
[20:52:05] <alex_joni> nice job
[20:53:29] <anonimasu> the machining of the nut/bearing assembly isnt too complicated
[20:53:32] <anonimasu> but there's a thread there
[20:53:39] <anonimasu> that needs to be turned..
[20:59:33] <anonimasu> :)
[20:59:40] <anonimasu> a bit tricky...
[21:00:49] <Jacky^> wow found a free video editing software with fantastic effects ! http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/cinelerra.jpg
[21:00:52] <Jacky^> :D
[21:01:41] <Jacky^> a bit hard to learn .. :/
[21:06:48] <skunkworks> could someone look at the circuit and see if there is an issue with it. seem to be getting noise into it. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/test.jpg Sorry about the quality.
[21:07:43] <Jacky^> waht are ? optocouplers ?
[21:07:49] <alex_joni> skunkworks: I would put an RC on the signals aswell
[21:07:54] <alex_joni> you got a scope handy?
[21:08:01] <skunkworks> yes
[21:08:11] <alex_joni> any ripple on Vcc?
[21:08:36] <skunkworks> I will look tonight - at work right now. mainly looking at the pulse train so far.
[21:08:55] <skunkworks> the blocks on the upper right is the drive opto - isolators
[21:09:01] <skunkworks> step - direction
[21:09:04] <alex_joni> ok.. if Vcc is ok, I would move the RC to the signals
[21:09:06] <alex_joni> not Vcc
[21:09:24] <alex_joni> R in series with the signal, going to the opto, C facing ground
[21:09:26] <skunkworks> the rc - are in the drive itself
[21:09:31] <alex_joni> ahh.. ok
[21:09:35] <alex_joni> then add yours
[21:09:53] <alex_joni> what noise do you get?
[21:09:53] <alex_joni> false / lost steps?
[21:10:09] <skunkworks> ok - we kinda tried that - but a resister and cap from b+ to the oc output.
[21:10:26] <skunkworks> seems most of the time we are randomly gaining if it doesn't stall
[21:11:06] <alex_joni> I see.. well.. an RC surely will make a difference
[21:11:17] <alex_joni> would be good to scope the signals after the opto in the drive
[21:11:18] <skunkworks> stepper sounds like crap
[21:11:36] <alex_joni> sometimes the optos don't work on some voltages
[21:13:54] <skunkworks> so what rc do you think If I may ask - are you also saying between the b+ and the output of the buffer?
[21:14:42] <alex_joni> and resistor in series (parport-resistor-drive) and a cap to ground
[21:26:13] <skunkworks> it is a buffer/inverter chip (don't remember which) between the parallel port and the drive. Open collector. will try putting a resister then cap to ground and see what happens.
[21:26:58] <alex_joni> ok
[21:27:06] <skunkworks> I think I mean a cap to ground on the output and then a resister to the stepper drive if I understand it right
[21:29:45] <alex_joni> g'night
[21:29:52] <skunkworks> what values - wait wait
[21:30:05] <skunkworks> ;)
[21:30:21] <alex_joni> heh.. a few kOhms
[21:30:32] <alex_joni> but you need to test, and look with the scope
[21:30:42] <skunkworks> .01mf or so?
[21:31:04] <skunkworks> I guess I could calculate the bandpass I want huh
[21:32:43] <alex_joni> night..
[21:44:12] <anonimasu> hm
[21:44:25] <Jacky^> uhm ?
[21:44:28] <Jacky^> :D
[21:44:46] <anonimasu> *thinks*
[21:45:02] <Jacky^> anonimasu: thinking with autocad ? :P
[21:45:06] <anonimasu> nope..
[21:45:09] <anonimasu> thinking about my machine
[21:45:13] <anonimasu> spinning the nuts or the screws..
[21:45:14] <Jacky^> pen and paper ?
[21:45:20] <anonimasu> in my head right now
[21:45:39] <Jacky^> oh .. id ask to les_w
[21:46:09] <Jacky^> could have some interesting suggest
[21:46:21] <anonimasu> heh
[21:46:40] <anonimasu> some real high end machines do that since it allows faster speeds..
[21:46:50] <anonimasu> eleminating whip..
[21:47:04] <skunkworks> never spun a nut - sounds like it would hurt. depends on what you are trying to acomplish if the nut is lighter than the lead screw - less mass to spin
[21:47:11] <anonimasu> yep
[21:47:15] <skunkworks> yah - what you said. slow typer.
[21:47:54] <anonimasu> but I dont know
[21:48:13] <anonimasu> I dont really have a need for that kind of speeds..
[21:48:22] <anonimasu> there's no control to push my machine along at thoose speeds..
[21:48:27] <anonimasu> anyway..
[21:49:19] <anonimasu> so I dont really know which way that's the best
[21:49:27] <anonimasu> either one is fairly easy..
[21:49:46] <anonimasu> the only issue would be grease slinging, but I can mount central lubing to combat that..
[21:50:04] <skunkworks> what are your thoughts for a spinning nut? timkins? thrust + bearings?
[21:50:09] <Jacky^> anonimasu: talking about Z axis ?
[21:50:19] <anonimasu> Jacky^: hm, X and Z
[21:50:24] <anonimasu> maybe Y too..
[21:51:50] <anonimasu> not thrust bearings..
[21:51:54] <anonimasu> just normal ones...
[21:52:00] <anonimasu> it should be plenty for the kind of load..
[21:52:43] <anonimasu> if you wait a moment I'll draw you how my Z looks
[21:53:22] <Jacky^> anonimasu: sure
[21:53:46] <Jacky^> im not a designer, but im interesting in see it
[21:56:03] <anonimasu> :)
[21:57:11] <Jacky^> this is the first machine I designed as engineer: http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/photos/lab/img011.jpeg
[21:57:17] <Jacky^> bauahahaha lol :)
[21:57:48] <anonimasu> done in a bit..
[21:58:01] <anonimasu> nice
[21:58:02] <anonimasu> :)
[21:58:07] <Jacky^> hehehe
[22:00:17] <anonimasu> I'll draw the bearings red..
[22:12:06] <skunkworks> jack - looks like wide carrage printer parts ;)
[22:12:42] <skunkworks> jacky - sorry
[22:12:54] <Jacky^> hehe ;)
[22:13:27] <skunkworks> I have some linear steppers from line printers if you need them ;)
[22:13:52] <Jacky^> thanks, im switching to servo systems :P
[22:14:18] <Jacky^> I found some hp printers using small servos and liner optical encoder
[22:14:25] <Jacky^> nice toys, really :)
[22:15:21] <anonimasu> hm
[22:15:26] <anonimasu> drawing bearings sucks ;)
[22:20:02] <anonimasu> hm
[22:20:04] <anonimasu> done in just a bit
[22:20:09] <anonimasu> drawing the gear + ballnut there..
[22:25:30] <anonimasu> saving the img
[22:28:47] <anonimasu> Jacky^: still there?
[22:28:53] <Jacky^> anonimasu: yes
[22:29:06] <anonimasu> ok
[22:33:38] <anonimasu> upploading
[22:35:18] <anonimasu> done
[22:35:56] <Jacky^> url ?
[22:36:15] <anonimasu> http://io23.net/img/
[22:36:21] <Jacky^> looking
[22:36:50] <anonimasu> the ballnut sits in the middle..
[22:37:00] <anonimasu> should be a |-
[22:37:20] <anonimasu> or well a flange the nut screws too but I dont have the specs for the nut right now
[22:38:17] <Jacky^> it looks really nice
[22:38:30] <anonimasu> thanks
[22:38:33] <anonimasu> not too hard to machine either..
[22:38:46] <anonimasu> the only hard thing is the thread on the thing in centre..
[22:38:51] <Jacky^> yeah
[22:38:59] <Jacky^> thats what I was thinking ..
[22:39:02] <anonimasu> should be turned so it's concentric..
[22:39:16] <anonimasu> perferably the wrong way..
[22:39:27] <Jacky^> may using a 'special tool' ?
[22:39:35] <anonimasu> lathe..
[22:39:44] <anonimasu> the part isnt too large :)
[22:39:56] <anonimasu> not really a problem though..
[22:39:59] <Jacky^> cool, really nice design
[22:40:04] <anonimasu> 2 bearing surfaces and a mounting flange..
[22:40:12] <anonimasu> thanks
[22:40:13] <Jacky^> yeah..
[22:40:20] <anonimasu> as simple as it gets..
[22:40:26] <anonimasu> the thread allows for preload ;)
[22:40:46] <anonimasu> I could have decided on ><
[22:40:50] <anonimasu> but it's not nescessary
[22:41:33] <anonimasu> since the Z is loaded down always anyway
[22:42:24] <Jacky^> good
[22:42:39] <Jacky^> I want to show it to les_w if youre not around later
[22:42:47] <anonimasu> sure
[22:42:53] <Jacky^> but looks a nice solution
[22:43:04] <Jacky^> seems
[22:43:23] <Jacky^> youre lucky if able to machine that
[22:43:26] <Jacky^> :)
[22:43:28] <anonimasu> that?
[22:43:31] <anonimasu> heh, it's just some turning
[22:44:15] <Jacky^> I suppose it should have little play too
[22:44:24] <anonimasu> hm, nope
[22:44:39] <anonimasu> if there's play it's a scrap piece..
[22:44:58] <Jacky^> :P
[22:45:10] <Jacky^> ;-)
[22:45:54] <anonimasu> that's the issue
[22:46:04] <anonimasu> I've got a machine that's accurate way beyond 0.01
[22:46:10] <Jacky^> it seem to me youre taking the advantage of lathe use in this case, right ?
[22:46:25] <anonimasu> but if my mounts for stuff have play and stuff it'll ruin it..
[22:47:03] <anonimasu> I'll turn the bearings surfaces at the lathe at work..
[22:47:16] <anonimasu> I can turn them in a single pass ;)
[22:48:07] <Jacky^> yes, i know
[22:48:10] <anonimasu> Jacky^: have you ever been turning anything?
[22:48:16] <anonimasu> err turnd
[22:48:18] <anonimasu> turned
[22:49:02] <Jacky^> no, I just heard of that by my cousin, he use a 3 lathes
[22:49:18] <anonimasu> ah ok :)
[22:49:25] <Jacky^> Ive also seen some nice job hes done
[22:49:26] <anonimasu> it's very very simple compared to milling
[22:49:48] <anonimasu> hm, actually
[22:49:54] <anonimasu> I have a change of the design..
[22:50:00] <anonimasu> I'll mount the nut on top..
[22:50:07] <anonimasu> with the flange into the |--
[22:50:43] <anonimasu> that's better then I drive it in the opposite end of the bearings..
[22:51:14] <anonimasu> um, sorry if I rant a bit
[22:51:22] <Jacky^> hehe
[22:51:25] <Jacky^> interesting
[22:52:20] <anonimasu> hm should be a easy part to machine..
[22:52:59] <Jacky^> what about internal lubrification ??
[22:53:29] <anonimasu> I think I'll go with sealed bearings..
[22:53:51] <Jacky^> should be ok
[22:53:52] <anonimasu> and lube the nut at the lube port on the flange if there is one..
[22:54:02] <Jacky^> good
[22:54:40] <anonimasu> yep
[22:55:23] <anonimasu> if I could get the flange(nut) on the machine away I'd make one today..
[22:55:43] <anonimasu> I am starting to itch for a cnc
[22:55:46] <anonimasu> again ;)
[23:00:09] <Jacky^> im fighting with cinelerra, nice software but hard to tame..
[23:00:41] <anonimasu> yep
[23:01:08] <Jacky^> a bit wilde :/
[23:01:19] <Jacky^> but funny :D
[23:02:48] <anonimasu> hm, I wonder where les is
[23:02:55] <Jacky^> im too
[23:03:08] <Jacky^> i think hes busy with his work ..
[23:03:24] <anonimasu> hm, the ballnuts needs 28mm
[23:03:32] <anonimasu> to fit..
[23:03:42] <anonimasu> I might machine it there directly..
[23:04:13] <anonimasu> but I need to ask somone about screw dia
[23:04:55] <anonimasu> 16 or 2mm ballscrew is the issue
[23:05:15] <Jacky^> 20 ?
[23:05:47] <anonimasu> err yeah
[23:05:52] <anonimasu> err 25
[23:06:09] <anonimasu> ah well not too large anyway..
[23:06:13] <anonimasu> let me get a rulet
[23:06:15] <anonimasu> ruler
[23:06:26] <Jacky^> how much long the travel ?
[23:06:35] <Jacky^> for all axis ?
[23:06:39] <anonimasu> nope..
[23:06:48] <anonimasu> I've got ballscrews for the other axis:es
[23:07:01] <anonimasu> the issue is only with Z
[23:07:20] <anonimasu> the ballnut ends up as 38mm <-->
[23:07:24] <anonimasu> way too large to fit..
[23:07:31] <anonimasu> with a 25mm screw
[23:07:58] <anonimasu> besides the pitch of the 25mm screw is larger..
[23:08:12] <anonimasu> the travel is like 0,5m
[23:08:54] <anonimasu> hm, if I can mount it in the bottom anyway.
[23:09:03] <anonimasu> and preload a bit more I can fit 25mm
[23:09:14] <anonimasu> http://www.solectro.se/Archive/Documents/Produktblad/213700%200005.pdf
[23:09:47] <anonimasu> hm, I think I'll go with 16mm
[23:10:35] <anonimasu> but when I think about plunging into stuff..
[23:10:37] <anonimasu> ;)
[23:10:47] <anonimasu> but fitting 25 isnt possible
[23:11:21] <Jacky^> yeah, 16 mm should be enough
[23:11:40] <anonimasu> but the load rating for the 25mm one..
[23:11:42] <Jacky^> I dont think it do a great difference
[23:11:45] <anonimasu> *ick*
[23:12:06] <anonimasu> the screws are from isel, so they have a ok price
[23:12:13] <anonimasu> like 130eur for the nut..
[23:12:19] <anonimasu> and like 150 eur for the screw..
[23:12:23] <anonimasu> or something like that
[23:12:44] <Yuga> any one here know the standards for a 19" rack? trying to find out where those holes are placed that hold it in the rack?
[23:12:45] <anonimasu> they dont have as high specs as the skf screws, but since the z axis has gravity it's not a issue..
[23:12:52] <Jacky^> im not updated about quotes
[23:13:00] <anonimasu> quotes?
[23:13:05] <Jacky^> prices
[23:13:07] <anonimasu> ah
[23:13:12] <anonimasu> the skf screws costs 12 times as much
[23:13:19] <anonimasu> or something like it..
[23:13:21] <anonimasu> not quite
[23:13:23] <Jacky^> :/
[23:13:25] <anonimasu> but like 3x
[23:13:32] <anonimasu> or 5x
[23:13:33] <anonimasu> err
[23:13:34] <anonimasu> 4x..
[23:13:42] <anonimasu> :)
[23:13:54] <Jacky^> than these are cheap
[23:14:06] <anonimasu> yep
[23:14:24] <Jacky^> skf are very good brand and quality materials
[23:14:31] <anonimasu> yep
[23:14:49] <Jacky^> but when it need to work for a life
[23:17:21] <anonimasu> skf is great..
[23:17:24] <anonimasu> but the price isnt
[23:18:56] <Jacky^> I agreed :(
[23:19:17] <Jacky^> but the good thing is
[23:19:32] <anonimasu> hey robin_sz
[23:19:34] <robin_sz> meep?
[23:19:51] <Jacky^> it seems there are good materials from chine in the latest time ..
[23:20:02] <Jacky^> hi robin_sz :-)
[23:21:04] <Jacky^> it seems chine is coming up and were coming down ..
[23:21:09] <Jacky^> china*
[23:21:19] <anonimasu> hm
[23:21:27] <anonimasu> hm, chineese mills suck.
[23:21:28] <anonimasu> ^_^
[23:21:49] <Jacky^> for what I know, yes
[23:22:25] <Jacky^> but the truth is that they can offer really good materials at lowest cost
[23:22:33] <Yuga> aaarrrggg... can find the rack width.. but cant find out the height... this sux... google isnt my friend any more
[23:23:25] <Jacky^> Yuga: are you sure youre search isnt filtered ?
[23:23:30] <Jacky^> let me check ..
[23:23:40] <Jacky^> what youre searching ?
[23:24:27] <Yuga> +international +standard +19 +rack aswell as going to some company's websites that actualy make rack mounted stuff
[23:24:42] <anonimasu> width?
[23:24:43] <anonimasu> 19"
[23:24:44] <anonimasu> heh
[23:24:54] <Yuga> lol... kinda guessed that one :)
[23:25:00] <Jacky^> :)
[23:25:06] <Jacky^> haha
[23:25:33] <Yuga> i know the size of the box... battling to find the placement for the holes that are used to fix the rack into the case
[23:27:22] <anonimasu> remember me tomorrow and I'll measure
[23:28:06] <Yuga> need to know tonight... need to send pdf's away
[23:28:46] <anonimasu> cant help you then :/
[23:28:52] <Jacky^> Yuga: tha only thing it comes to my mind is rscomponents website
[23:28:57] <anonimasu> try hp or cisco..
[23:29:00] <anonimasu> wait a bit
[23:29:44] <anonimasu> hm nope
[23:32:24] <Jacky^> Yuga: http://www.rs-components.it/cgi-bin/bv/browse/Browse.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0424516812.1134516679@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdaddghhfjifjcefeceefdffhdgli.0&cacheID=itnetscape&3308325966=3308325966&catoid=-665767327
[23:32:30] <Jacky^> ugh
[23:32:49] <robin_sz> ick
[23:32:55] <robin_sz> * robin_sz hates RS
[23:32:55] <Jacky^> sorry ..
[23:32:59] <Yuga> lol... some launguage i dont understand :)
[23:33:03] <robin_sz> try Farnell.com instead
[23:33:23] <Jacky^> it would have eng version too :(
[23:33:41] <Jacky^> anyway looking for some data ..
[23:34:49] <Jacky^> there are not pdf
[23:38:10] <Jacky^> Module rack for 19" mounting system allowing the integration of all modules in EUROPE format,. (100 X 160 mm). Useful width 84 units (1 unit = 5.08 mm) ...
[23:38:13] <Yuga> http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/CCR35TZPL.pdf <--- this look correct?
[23:38:15] <Jacky^> is that '
[23:39:12] <Jacky^> no clue :(
[23:39:30] <Yuga> lol
[23:39:33] <Yuga> this sux
[23:39:46] <Yuga> something soooooo simple... but yet so complex :)
[23:42:04] <Yuga> that doesnt look correct
[23:42:10] <Yuga> back to square 1
[23:48:13] <robin_sz> what are you tryingto do? a eurocard rack is not THAT hard to find surely?
[23:49:03] <robin_sz> or are you looking for racking strip to fix in a cabionet?
[23:49:08] <Yuga> robin_sz... to find the measurements it is
[23:49:16] <robin_sz> simple
[23:49:16] <Jacky^> robin_sz: he needs some details about it
[23:49:27] <Yuga> making my own rack... need to know the exact measurements
[23:49:38] <robin_sz> 1U = 1.75 inches
[23:49:46] <robin_sz> 3 holes per U
[23:50:17] <Jacky^> that become to be lithening :)
[23:52:06] <Jacky^> illuminating
[23:52:11] <Yuga> size of the hole?
[23:52:29] <robin_sz> depends what size bolts ;)
[23:52:33] <robin_sz> ususally M6
[23:52:37] <robin_sz> or captive nut
[23:52:48] <Yuga> 6mm?
[23:53:00] <robin_sz> 5mm drill, 6mm tap
[23:55:17] <Yuga> so there would be 59.267 mm between the 2 holes on a 2u rack?
[23:55:37] <robin_sz> mmm
[23:56:44] <robin_sz> there are 44.45 mm per U
[23:57:24] <robin_sz> thats one hole every 14.81 mm
[23:57:39] <anonimasu> lol
[23:58:26] <robin_sz> I make it 59.24mm
[23:59:03] <robin_sz> I am not sure if being out by .01 will have any major problems ;)
[23:59:18] <Yuga> but you never know :)
[23:59:37] <anonimasu> you can be fairly sure about it