#emc | Logs for 2005-11-17

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[00:33:16] <Jacky^> uhm
[01:28:56] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[03:49:19] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands LawrenceG a beer
[03:49:33] <Jymmm> Made from prunes.... Yum!
[03:49:35] <LawrenceG> * LawrenceG glub glub glug ahhhh
[03:49:57] <LawrenceG> hey
[03:50:16] <Jymmm> lol
[03:50:45] <LawrenceG> I managed to build emc and axis last nice so I could run sim on my devel box...
[03:51:01] <LawrenceG> s/nice/night/
[03:51:43] <Jymmm> ah, cool.
[03:51:44] <LawrenceG> seems to berunning much better than previous versions... not hanging anymore
[03:52:33] <Jymmm> heh
[03:52:37] <LawrenceG> there were some hassles to fix as by default gcc4.x was used
[03:52:38] <Jymmm> thats always a good thing.
[03:53:14] <LawrenceG> I should update the wiki page... but I will have to remember what I did!
[03:53:30] <Jymmm> just hit your brain rewind button =)
[03:54:10] <LawrenceG> one change to a conditional declaration and adding an include directory to the makefile I think was all
[03:54:36] <Jymmm> I dun know, they have been amking a LOT of changes lately
[03:56:23] <LawrenceG> I should have been out in the shop today milling a pcb, but is was cold out there...
[03:57:50] <LawrenceG> the wood stove is roaring in here tonight
[04:02:35] <LawrenceG> http://members.shaw.ca/cncstuff/tstbrd-brd.png
[04:02:57] <LawrenceG> http://members.shaw.ca/cncstuff/tstbrd.png
[04:03:18] <LawrenceG> http://members.shaw.ca/cncstuff/tstbrdbd.ngc
[04:03:33] <LawrenceG> http://members.shaw.ca/cncstuff/tstbrdbot.ngc
[04:03:36] <cradek> LawrenceG: where's the picture of the finished board?
[04:04:03] <LawrenceG> Hi Chris.... maybe after supper
[04:04:19] <LawrenceG> want to see the first one I did?
[04:04:23] <cradek> sure
[04:04:33] <LawrenceG> ok.. will find it and upload it
[04:06:28] <cradek> testbrdbot.ngc looks pretty good
[04:06:39] <cradek> what tool are you using?
[04:07:11] <LawrenceG> yea looks good in axis.. tool is a home ground broken pcb drill... gross but it worked
[04:07:35] <cradek> cool
[04:07:46] <cradek> fwiw, I think I only cut .0045 deep
[04:07:50] <cradek> 7 seems really deep
[04:08:29] <LawrenceG> yea... I fudged the depth as it made the first cut until it looked good... not sure how deep it actually was
[04:09:09] <LawrenceG> I cant seem to find the pic... will take another
[04:14:58] <LawrenceG> http://members.shaw.ca/cncstuff/p1010060.jpg
[04:15:19] <LawrenceG> http://members.shaw.ca/cncstuff/p1010066.jpg
[04:15:33] <LawrenceG> http://members.shaw.ca/cncstuff/p1010067.jpg
[04:17:40] <LawrenceG> those are pix of board being milled, and top and bottom of finsihed board
[04:18:00] <cradek> cool!
[04:18:02] <cradek> looks familiar
[04:18:31] <cradek> you might try some 400 grit sandpaper to clean up the curled edges of the traces
[04:18:36] <cradek> a better tool will help with that too
[04:18:48] <LawrenceG> that is the dspic programmer board... the other stuff is for a dspic test board for working on the 3phase ac servo project
[04:19:00] <cradek> slick
[04:19:25] <cradek> I hope I don't regret not getting some of those servos
[04:19:31] <LawrenceG> yea, I did some cleanupwith the exacto.... cutting too deep causes a lot of curing as the fiberglass gets pushed around
[04:19:41] <cradek> yep
[04:19:46] <cradek> your tool was carbide, right?
[04:19:54] <LawrenceG> yes...
[04:20:13] <cradek> was this your first board? If so, it's really good
[04:21:36] <LawrenceG> first one...., To make the jig, I used a piece of plastic and surfaced it off so that it was flat to the table, then taped the pcb on top with double sided carpet tape.... had a hell of a time getting it off!
[04:21:42] <cradek> what is your spindle? what is that huge cylinder?
[04:22:05] <cradek> yep, I've sure dealt with that too...
[04:22:25] <LawrenceG> its a morse taper 3 extension with a 1/4 collet with a 1/8bit in an adapter
[04:22:53] <LawrenceG> I dont have a 1/8 collet...
[04:22:58] <cradek> what is the spindle speed?
[04:23:12] <LawrenceG> slow... only about 3000rpm
[04:23:24] <cradek> ah, you must have been feeding REALLY slow then
[04:23:33] <LawrenceG> 10ipm
[04:23:51] <cradek> that didn't break the tool? I'm really surprised
[04:24:26] <cradek> my tools are rated at .001/rotation and they break at about .002/rotation
[04:24:36] <LawrenceG> well the tool is pretty solid... just a flat on the tapered portion of a broken pcb drill
[04:25:24] <LawrenceG> a good use for those odd size drills that come in the 50 piece sets
[04:25:36] <cradek> yeah
[04:25:43] <cradek> I keep all my broken carbide tools too
[04:25:48] <LawrenceG> I need to get a much finer diamond grinder
[04:26:10] <cradek> I have only a regular bench grinder...
[04:26:32] <LawrenceG> it just used a dremel to roughly shape things and it wobbled a bit
[04:27:01] <cradek> well congrats on your first board
[04:27:57] <LawrenceG> have you used the cem type of pcb for routing? Its a paper epoxy board.. made for punching holes for single sided boards... it may be easier on bits
[04:28:56] <LawrenceG> I think the only reason it was usable was that I used 0.020 clearance as a design rule and traces that were 0.040 or bigger
[04:29:14] <LawrenceG> no traces between pads
[04:29:57] <LawrenceG> I got 3 of the 300watt servos... man they look great...
[04:30:42] <LawrenceG> I fired one up with the power supply.... takes about 5v to get rated current
[04:31:10] <cradek> no, I've not worked with "cem"
[04:31:29] <cradek> I have some doublesided boards from Radio Shack that are not FR
[04:31:35] <cradek> they are very easy on tools
[04:31:37] <cradek> I don't know what they are
[04:31:43] <LawrenceG> torque is not bad.... cant make it skip by hand cranking the shaft.... but it does "spring"
[04:32:16] <LawrenceG> There is a guy on ebay selling boards that is quite cheap.... let me get the link...
[04:33:04] <cradek> these RS boards cut smoothly
[04:33:21] <cradek> if you snap one it breaks ... um ... like very sharp cheese
[04:33:23] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7561212015&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1
[04:33:26] <cradek> not sure how to describe it
[04:34:06] <cradek> that is cheap if they're usable
[04:34:12] <LawrenceG> I though I would give them a try.... I dont really like the idea of all the glass bits flying around and getting into me or the machinery
[04:34:43] <cradek> yeah, I just let it pile up and then vacuum before the board before I try to remove it from the machine
[04:34:54] <cradek> doesn't seem like it flies too far
[04:35:15] <LawrenceG> I got a batch of 50 double sided FR4 boards from him a couple of weeks ago
[04:35:37] <cradek> I find that I usually make singlesided boards
[04:35:51] <cradek> I try really hard to lay out singlesided - they're much easier
[04:35:59] <LawrenceG> Shipping was $22.50... twice as much as the boards were worth
[04:36:28] <cradek> 50 boards for $30 is still fairly cheap I guess
[04:36:31] <LawrenceG> yea.. I dont mind adding a few jumpers for stuff that wont quite route
[04:36:39] <cradek> right
[04:36:48] <cradek> I like to make all the jumpers parallel in one direction, then use plain bus wire
[04:37:16] <LawrenceG> route everything on the bottom and add topside jumpers for the last few traces
[04:37:37] <cradek> one jumper is easier to solder than two vias...
[04:37:59] <LawrenceG> I have tried layout with surface mount stuff yet...still have mostly through hole parts in the junk box
[04:38:07] <LawrenceG> have not
[04:38:23] <cradek> smd is surprisingly hard to lay out singlesided
[04:38:30] <cradek> you can't pass traces between IC pads
[04:38:47] <LawrenceG> yea or smd resistors!
[04:38:48] <cradek> I have used 0805 0-ohm "resistors" to pass traces under
[04:38:59] <cradek> I can put a trace under 0805 easily
[04:39:08] <LawrenceG> well got the super call... bbl
[04:39:21] <LawrenceG> super supper!
[05:14:04] <Jymmm> lol
[06:14:36] <Jymmm> anyone around?
[06:14:51] <LawrenceG> mostly square...
[06:15:16] <Jymmm> LawrenceG playing with BMP to GCODE, does this look right...
[06:15:25] <Jymmm> N1( This file is created by MaJoSoft www.majosoft.com )
[06:15:25] <Jymmm> N2 G00 X0 Y0 Z2
[06:15:25] <Jymmm> N3 G01 Y0 Z-1.182
[06:15:25] <Jymmm> N4 G01 X0.25 Z-1.123
[06:15:25] <Jymmm> N5 G01 X0.5 Z-1.162
[06:15:25] <Jymmm> N6 G01 X0.75 Z-1.045
[06:15:27] <Jymmm> N7 G01 X1 Z-1.143
[06:15:30] <Jymmm> N8 G01 X1.25 Z-1.24
[06:15:31] <Jymmm> N9 G01 X1.5 Z-1.055
[06:15:33] <Jymmm> N10 G01 X1.75 Z-1.055
[06:15:35] <Jymmm> N11 G01 X2 Z-1.055
[06:15:37] <Jymmm> N12 G01 X2.25 Z-0.996
[06:15:41] <Jymmm> N13 G01 X2.5 Z-1.064
[06:15:43] <Jymmm> N14 G01 X2.75 Z-1.172
[06:15:45] <Jymmm> N15 G01 X3 Z-1.289
[06:16:01] <Bronson> Hello, is this the place to ask EMC questions?
[06:16:04] <Jymmm> it start Z at 2, then -1.182 ????????
[06:16:28] <Jymmm> Bronson emc, as the cnc controller?
[06:16:34] <LawrenceG> looks like its all in mm... couldbe right...scanning in x with varying z's
[06:16:44] <Bronson> I am getting "radius to end of arc differs from radius to start"
[06:16:45] <Bronson> yes
[06:17:05] <Bronson> the only info I have found requires recompiling src
[06:17:06] <Jymmm> LawrenceG oh, duh.... you're right it is in mm
[06:17:10] <Bronson> but I am using the BDI install
[06:17:29] <Bronson> and can't get a network card sorted...
[06:17:58] <Jymmm> Bronson: Most of the folks that can help you are asleep (I think).
[06:18:18] <Bronson> doh
[06:18:37] <Bronson> do most people recompile with with misc options?
[06:18:38] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: puta G21 in the front of the file and look at it in axis
[06:19:00] <Jymmm> LawrenceG G21 (bingo?)
[06:19:36] <Jymmm> LawrenceG you act like I write gcode or something
[06:19:59] <LawrenceG> yea... you win! G21 will read the file in metric... it should work ok
[06:20:10] <Jymmm> N0 G21
[06:20:15] <Jymmm> ?
[06:20:33] <LawrenceG> sure
[06:21:11] <Jymmm> Bronson you might try around 6am GMT-0800, ppl begin lurking around that time.
[06:21:21] <Bronson> cool, thanks
[06:21:54] <Jymmm> Bronson They'll be able to lead you in the right direction, I'm just clueless =)
[06:22:14] <Bronson> heheh, if it has the src code it can be fixed...
[06:22:16] <LawrenceG> Bronson: I am not sure which bdi you are using and what network setup tools exist.... if you have another card,you could try putting it in the box
[06:22:34] <Bronson> it's a laptop, omnibook 900
[06:22:44] <Bronson> it uses a pcmcia xircom net card
[06:22:49] <Bronson> or usb
[06:23:04] <Bronson> but it didn't recogize it during the insall
[06:23:10] <LawrenceG> scratch that idea
[06:23:24] <Bronson> I might try downloading the src and burning it to a cd
[06:23:29] <Bronson> then bringing it over
[06:23:43] <Bronson> I just need to change one stinking #define presumably
[06:23:48] <Jymmm> Xircom cards aren't heavily support all around. Even Win98 has had issue I've personal found (though I own quite a few of them)
[06:24:22] <Jymmm> If you have a intel or 3COM, you might have better luck.
[06:24:33] <Bronson> i'll dig around
[06:25:59] <Jymmm> Dell 10/100 PCMCIA nics are/were 3COM btw
[06:26:50] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: If you care... BMP2DIN Freebie http://engraving.majosoft.com/html/software.html
[06:33:54] <LawrenceG> thanks... have seen that site before.... I think cradek (maybe jepler) has some source code on his site
[07:15:19] <CIA-5> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (diff_log maintain page/E/EMC2_FileHeader.db): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Wed Nov 16 05:30:01 GMT 2005 "
[07:46:07] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. We're experiencing some routing problems between Europe and the US. We may need to reroute. Please bear with us.
[09:39:44] <fenn> bronson you're sure that you actually can complete the arc you programmed?
[09:40:13] <Bronson> it stopped working when I enabled cutter comp
[09:40:26] <Bronson> it is generated in mastercam 9.1
[09:40:36] <fenn> last time that happened the person was cutting an arc with a radius too short
[09:40:49] <fenn> oh and the time before that it was the cam program had a rounding error
[09:40:57] <fenn> does it say which line it happens on?
[09:41:08] <Bronson> no
[09:41:16] <fenn> wonderful
[09:41:34] <Bronson> it says in the manual to change the TOLERANCE_xxx value
[09:41:43] <Bronson> making it less strict I guess
[09:41:50] <fenn> in emc?
[09:41:52] <Bronson> other places say that emc is really picky
[09:42:06] <Bronson> yeah, one of the pdf manuals has the error mentioned
[09:42:51] <Bronson> I am working on getting networking working to get the source now...
[09:43:07] <Bronson> linux is a bastard with some devices
[09:43:32] <fenn> looks like TOLERANCE_ is defined a bunch of times
[09:44:16] <Bronson> it showed .0002 for the INCH setting
[09:47:45] <Bronson> ok, have networking going now...
[10:11:35] <Bronson> test
[10:53:46] <fenn> mornin
[10:54:08] <alex_joni> yup .. it is
[12:53:51] <anonimasu> hmm
[12:53:57] <Jacky^> hello
[13:02:41] <Jacky^> is it possibile to get remote access to new DRM processor system without pass trough the O.S. ?!
[13:02:48] <Jacky^> great crap
[13:23:22] <fenn> jacky you were talking about how a bunch of little capacitors was better than one big one..
[13:24:36] <fenn> um, nevermind.
[13:24:43] <Jacky^> fenn: yes
[13:24:53] <Jacky^> phone..
[13:25:38] <fenn> i'm ordering dumb crap from electronic goldmine and haven't figured out my power supply stuff yet
[13:29:38] <Jacky^> yes, it should be much better and faster
[13:30:25] <alex_joni> depends on what you mean by better
[13:30:38] <Jacky^> better..
[13:30:43] <alex_joni> ??
[13:30:55] <alex_joni> better for what?
[13:30:57] <Jacky^> for ex. you can change a single capacitor
[13:31:14] <Jacky^> do not have a big one 10k uF capacitor
[13:31:40] <alex_joni> I do not have one big 10k uF capacitor
[13:31:42] <Jacky^> but the advantage is the fastness
[13:31:47] <alex_joni> I have a battery of 20 such capacitors
[13:31:53] <Jacky^> good
[13:32:03] <alex_joni> 20 x 10k uF
[13:32:26] <Jacky^> 10k uf should have a slow response
[13:32:40] <Jacky^> in peak too
[13:33:01] <alex_joni> yes. but in a Power Source that's what I need
[13:33:05] <alex_joni> slow response
[13:33:22] <Jacky^> thats why many HIFI amplifier are using small capacitors ..
[13:33:26] <alex_joni> e.g. voltage not influenced by consumption
[13:33:34] <Jacky^> very similar as motor driver
[13:33:54] <alex_joni> amplifier is a whole different thing as power source
[13:34:00] <alex_joni> for PS I need big caps
[13:34:07] <alex_joni> for amps, smaller ones
[13:34:16] <alex_joni> that's why I asked what you mean by better..
[13:34:30] <fenn> are we talking about motor amps?
[13:34:52] <Jacky^> id use small capacitors for all
[13:34:58] <alex_joni> fenn: what do you need them for?
[13:35:07] <Jacky^> thats no wrong, sure
[13:35:15] <fenn> i'm fumbling around trying to come up with a ~30V power supply
[13:35:26] <alex_joni> ok.. so basic design?
[13:35:35] <fenn> how much ripple is acceptable?
[13:35:46] <alex_joni> transformer, rectifier and cap ?
[13:35:51] <fenn> yep
[13:35:52] <alex_joni> what do you power from it?
[13:36:07] <fenn> mosfet pwm amps
[13:36:17] <alex_joni> what kind?
[13:36:20] <alex_joni> brand?
[13:36:25] <fenn> er, fenn-brand
[13:36:47] <alex_joni> ok..
[13:36:52] <alex_joni> what motors?
[13:37:02] <fenn> http://pico-systems.com/japservo.html
[13:37:36] <alex_joni> how many amps do those need?
[13:38:10] <alex_joni> pretty thin wires.. wouldn't say more than 1-2 amps / motor
[13:38:19] <alex_joni> so 6 amps / 3 axes ?
[13:38:24] <fenn> i dont know if 100W is a peak rating or continuos rating
[13:38:41] <fenn> 6 axes.. 12 amps
[13:38:57] <fenn> a little over-engineering couldnt hurt either
[13:39:11] <alex_joni> ok.. so design it for 100W / axis = 600W PS
[13:39:23] <alex_joni> 600 W @ 30V means 20Amps
[13:39:32] <alex_joni> that's pretty high ;)
[13:39:37] <alex_joni> get some big caps
[13:39:46] <alex_joni> or else the voltage will drop when one motor starts..
[13:40:03] <alex_joni> I would put a few 10k uF (about 3-4)
[13:40:17] <fenn> how do you come up with this number?
[13:40:22] <alex_joni> my guts tell me
[13:41:30] <alex_joni> if you can go to groups.yahoo.com / geckodrive
[13:41:37] <alex_joni> there are some PS schematics there
[13:42:35] <fenn> thanks alex
[13:43:11] <Jacky^> What's also noticeable, when peeking into the CAM 350's insides, is the absence of gigantic capacitors. Class´┐Ż's approach, enabled by recent improvements in capacitor design and materials, is to use a large number of small, fast capacitors instead of a smaller number of large ones. The rationale is simple: smaller capacitors charge and release energy more quickly, so smaller capacitors mean a faster, cleaner circuit.
[13:43:39] <alex_joni> yes.. for switching application you are correct
[13:43:46] <Jacky^> ok ..
[13:43:49] <alex_joni> on a power supply you WANT exactly the opposite
[13:44:06] <alex_joni> the voltage produced needs to be as linear as possible
[13:44:44] <alex_joni> fenn: you should really build the POWER_SUPPLY.pdf (protection to the PS), in case your fet's aren't rated much higher than 30V
[13:44:58] <alex_joni> fenn: read through the docs there.. a lot of info
[13:45:15] <fenn> i already have some IGBT's rated at 300V, but jmk says it's a bad idea to use those
[13:45:29] <alex_joni> IGBT's are a bit slow
[13:45:40] <alex_joni> opening slowly I mean..
[13:45:53] <alex_joni> so they will be kinda affected thermally
[13:46:25] <alex_joni> I have built a PWM DC drive using MOS-FET's
[13:46:35] <alex_joni> if you need schematics.. they are available
[13:46:48] <alex_joni> mine handled about 10A without getting warm at all
[13:47:02] <alex_joni> but it's a pretty basic design..
[13:47:12] <alex_joni> if I were to do it all over again.. I wouldn't :P
[13:47:17] <fenn> the igbt has to dissipate current from slinging the gate charge back and forth, i think that's why he dislikes them
[13:47:28] <alex_joni> not worth the hassle.. get some G340, and you'll be set :P
[13:47:36] <alex_joni> or G320
[13:47:47] <fenn> i might use an l298 per motor instead of discrete chips
[13:48:00] <alex_joni> L298 ?..so you're driving steppers?
[13:48:06] <fenn> no, it's a dual h-bridge
[13:48:14] <alex_joni> yes. but very weak
[13:48:17] <alex_joni> 2A?
[13:48:24] <alex_joni> something like that...
[13:48:29] <fenn> i'll have to look at it again
[13:48:55] <alex_joni> fenn: http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/yanor/downloads/bridge.pdf
[13:49:16] <fenn> yeah 2A per bridge, so 4A total
[13:49:20] <alex_joni> that's a dual H-bridge too
[13:49:35] <alex_joni> 10A / bridge.. although it might go up to 50A, but I haven't tested it..
[13:50:21] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/yanor/downloads.php
[13:50:34] <alex_joni> if you want to build it, I might have the layout somewhere aswell...
[13:51:15] <alex_joni> err.. it's included in the .zip
[13:53:44] <fenn> those schematics take forever to draw on the screen
[14:05:09] <fenn> wow i can get a 3 farad capacitor on ebay for only $73 :P
[14:05:39] <fenn> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-POWER-ACOUSTIK-PCNC-2F-3-Farad-Car-Audio-Capacitor_W0QQitemZ5828770356QQcategoryZ50547QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[14:06:07] <alex_joni> what voltage?
[14:06:42] <alex_joni> 24V DC
[14:06:47] <alex_joni> might be too little for you...
[14:07:32] <alex_joni> but as Jacky said.. use 1000000 x 3 uF caps ;)
[14:08:07] <fenn> i'm also thinking of using a bunch of 1000uf or 2700uf
[14:08:23] <alex_joni> 60V caps are pretty small
[14:08:47] <alex_joni> I have a 10000 uF, 63V cap right now in my hand
[14:08:59] <alex_joni> it's about an inch thick, and 2.5 inches long
[14:09:03] <fenn> i've got a bunch of computer p/s lying around... think those might be good?
[14:09:22] <alex_joni> I don't trust them
[14:09:35] <alex_joni> computer stuff is engineered to be very at the limit
[14:09:44] <alex_joni> so as to have it cheap
[14:27:20] <Jacky^> US export tons of cookies in EU
[14:27:33] <Jacky^> EU export tons of cookies in US
[14:27:46] <fenn> they are all owned by the same people anyway
[14:28:00] <Jacky^> and we have a lot of planes gioin up and down
[14:28:13] <fenn> nah that stuff goes on a boat
[14:28:14] <Jacky^> ok, the cookies are not the same
[14:28:29] <Jacky^> but why they dont exchange the recipe ??
[14:29:12] <fenn> i'm sure you're familiar with italian food-naming laws
[14:29:22] <Jacky^> :D
[14:29:29] <fenn> has to be made in a certain village to be "frou frou biscuit"
[14:30:05] <fenn> inefficiency is good for the economy
[14:32:35] <alex_joni> fenn: spot on
[14:32:38] <fenn> looks like the cheapest way to 40mf at >50V is to use 8 series-pairs of 10mf
[14:32:55] <alex_joni> yup.. 10mF is pretty much standard
[14:33:12] <alex_joni> how about only 4 in parallel?
[14:33:21] <fenn> nothing will blow up if i use 2 10mf 24V caps in series right?
[14:33:31] <alex_joni> nope..
[14:33:38] <alex_joni> only series halfs the capacitance
[14:33:41] <fenn> right
[14:33:41] <alex_joni> parallel doubles it
[14:34:00] <alex_joni> so using 4 caps gives you the original capacitance.. no gain
[14:34:11] <fenn> 8*5000=40000 right?
[14:34:22] <fenn> 16 capacitors total
[14:34:32] <alex_joni> yes, but that's 16 caps for 40mF
[14:34:42] <alex_joni> and you can get that with only 4
[14:34:56] <alex_joni> that's a waste of 12 caps
[14:35:07] <alex_joni> you don't have so much power that it might matter..
[14:35:14] <fenn> i havent found any 10mf rated for higher voltages
[14:35:57] <alex_joni> try 10000 uF ;)
[14:36:01] <fenn> futurlec has 10mf 24v for $1.70 each.. and i'm already ordering from there
[14:36:09] <alex_joni> 63V is standard
[14:36:15] <alex_joni> also 100V, but that's too high
[14:36:20] <alex_joni> 50V might be enough too..
[14:36:59] <alex_joni> http://www.thlaudio.com/bhcapitme.htm
[14:37:22] <alex_joni> located in Taipei :D
[14:38:46] <alex_joni> http://www.profusionplc.com/cgi-bin/gex/pcatdtl?ipartno=CE10000U50-ELH
[14:39:10] <alex_joni> about 3USD / piece
[14:39:15] <alex_joni> if you buy 5
[14:51:52] <fenn> that picture of the 1 cubic foot of g-rex's is scary
[14:56:01] <alex_joni> fenn: what pic?
[14:56:37] <alex_joni> guess I missed that one
[14:56:39] <fenn> http://f5.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UC17QzV7LJRPyZmm_8bXgb6aEZSWSnWPdFItAqkvqH9WqpamZciVt4zbOEqRFqED_zgbdk_QjBQOo1jpTwARZLlszdF-z7Iy/372 G-Rex.jpg
[14:57:11] <fenn> that probably wont work.. it's 372 G-rex in the files section
[14:57:24] <alex_joni> it did work
[14:57:29] <alex_joni> and I found it after that too..
[14:57:31] <alex_joni> NICE
[15:09:38] <fenn> should i even be screwing around with transformers? why not just recitfy 120V directly and throw some lightbulbs in there as resistors?
[15:09:57] <fenn> it's too cold in here anyway
[15:10:56] <alex_joni> lol
[15:11:06] <alex_joni> transformers also give you separation
[15:11:25] <fenn> for noise suppression?
[15:14:48] <fenn> there ought to be a chip that provides regulated power right off the main lines
[15:15:41] <fenn> actually i have some "wall warts" that weigh much less than they ought to
[15:16:29] <alex_joni> well... our robots just moved to 600V servo's
[15:16:32] <alex_joni> AC servo's that is
[15:16:46] <alex_joni> mainly because 600V you can get right of rectivied 400V mains
[15:17:17] <fenn> right.. that's what icee's doing on the p5 driver board
[15:17:26] <fenn> using 220V
[15:18:21] <fenn> i should be able to chop the voltage down to ~24V since i'm pwm'ing anyway
[15:18:54] <fenn> sense the voltage coming out with the microchip's a/d
[15:19:36] <fenn> only need a tiny isolation transformer then
[15:19:52] <fenn> (to protect the micro)
[15:31:40] <lerman> Be careful with series capacitors. If the capacitances are unequal (and they alway are -- those things have lousy tolerances), the voltatages across them will be unequal. Unsually if you want to put power supply capacitors in series, you have to put resistors in parallel with each capacitor to equalize the voltage. (I don't know typical resistor values to use).
[15:32:34] <fenn> ok - that seemed like a bad idea to me
[15:33:32] <jepler> is there a page that explains the markup available on the emc wiki?
[15:34:28] <fenn> http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TextFormattingRules ?
[15:35:28] <jepler> aha. and how was I supposed to know this was a "usemod" wiki?
[15:35:49] <alex_joni> jepler: by using it ;)
[15:36:43] <fenn> just hang out on irc and listen to me bitch about usemod all the time
[15:37:58] <jepler> fenn: which wiki software do you prefer? I have the most experience with moinmoin.
[15:40:00] <fenn> i like pukiwiki, but i'm sure there are other good ones out there
[15:40:11] <fenn> problem with pukiwiki is it's mostly in japanese
[15:40:19] <fenn> documentation i mean
[15:41:17] <jepler> on usemod I can't make an off-site link without [angle brackets I don't want]?
[15:41:33] <fenn> i cant figure that one out either
[15:41:43] <jepler> * jepler grumbles
[15:43:47] <alex_joni> * alex_joni likes the wiki used for wikipedia
[15:45:04] <jepler> alex_joni: "mediawiki", I think it's called?
[15:45:20] <alex_joni> indeed
[15:45:29] <alex_joni> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki
[16:02:25] <fenn> since jepler's here i tried to use axis again.. it seems blt was badly packaged
[16:02:32] <fenn> and this keeps axis from running
[16:02:58] <fenn> _tkinter.TclError: couldn't load file "/home/gb/rpm/tmp/blt-2.4z-9mdk-buildroot/usr/lib/libBLT24": /home/gb/rpm/tmp/blt-2.4z-9mdk-buildroot/usr/lib/libBLT24: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[16:03:32] <cradek> % rpm -qa|grep blt
[16:03:32] <cradek> blt-2.4-0.fdr.9.z.rh90
[16:04:04] <fenn> rh9?
[16:04:13] <alex_joni> fedora?
[16:04:15] <cradek> yeah, I'm rh9
[16:04:28] <alex_joni> seems to me that tkinter is not compiled properly.. not blt..
[16:04:58] <fenn> "gb" is the packager of blt
[16:08:23] <fenn> next...
[16:08:32] <fenn> _tkinter.TclError: couldn't load file "/usr/lib/blt2.4/libBLT24.so": /usr/lib/blt2.4/libBLT24.so: undefined symbol: TkSetClassProcs
[16:09:49] <fenn> i have tcl/tk 8.4.7-2
[16:10:55] <fenn> blt says they should be compatible
[16:15:35] <fenn> * fenn tries another blt package
[16:17:34] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[16:17:44] <SWPadnos> hi guys
[16:18:07] <Jacky^> hey SWPadnos
[16:18:46] <SWPadnos> hey -I've got a stupid emc configuration question
[16:19:08] <Jacky^> do you remember the video of the other day ?
[16:19:14] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:19:15] <Jacky^> http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article327379.ece
[16:19:30] <SWPadnos> that was a different kind of WP than I've seen
[16:19:34] <SWPadnos> I'm used to the grenades
[16:21:56] <fenn> ok i think i squelched the blt issue with an ugly hack.. is there a way to run axis without running EMC?
[16:22:11] <cradek> no
[16:22:18] <cradek> but you can run the simulator
[16:22:28] <cradek> no machine or realtime required
[16:22:39] <fenn> now it can't find libnml.so...
[16:23:32] <fenn> maybe i set env wrong
[16:24:17] <SWPadnos> but only for emc1
[16:40:43] <fenn> alex have you tried recompiling axis since all the make-install changes?
[16:40:57] <alex_joni> fenn: didn't have the chance..
[16:41:02] <alex_joni> but it shouldn't be related
[16:41:21] <alex_joni> I mean.. you're not trying to compile axis on an installed system, now do you?
[16:41:29] <fenn> no
[16:41:59] <cradek> fenn: what system are you trying to build it on?
[16:42:03] <fenn> i cant figure out a) why it can't find libnml.so or b) where it's supposed to get the paths to libnml.so
[16:42:47] <fenn> cradek: ?? fedora 3 or thereabouts
[16:43:01] <cradek> I mean which emc
[16:43:12] <alex_joni> emc2 from what I'm getting
[16:43:22] <alex_joni> fenn: if it can wait till tonight I'll look at it
[16:43:27] <alex_joni> if not.. read setup.py
[16:43:37] <alex_joni> you'll figure it out.. it's very readable
[16:43:43] <cradek> it looks for libnml in emcroot/lib
[16:44:11] <fenn> oh :)
[16:44:14] <alex_joni> fenn: probably you didn't make emc2?
[16:44:15] <fenn> there's no libnml.so
[16:44:31] <fenn> oops n/m there is one
[16:44:49] <fenn> "Building for EMC2 in /home/blipkowi/emc2"
[16:45:05] <fenn> ls /home/blipkowi/emc2/lib/
[16:45:05] <fenn> CVS hal_lib.o libemc.a libnml.a libnmld.a libnml.so libpm.a ulapi.o
[16:45:32] <fenn> ImportError: libnml.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[16:45:56] <fenn> in import gcode
[16:46:00] <fenn> that's all the info i've got
[16:46:02] <cradek> are you having trouble compiling it or running it?
[16:46:06] <fenn> running it
[16:46:29] <cradek> but you did compile it yourself?
[16:46:38] <fenn> yes
[16:47:12] <cradek> and you didn't move your emc2 dir after that?
[16:47:45] <fenn> nope
[16:49:31] <fenn> ldd /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/gcode.so
[16:49:31] <fenn> linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000)
[16:49:31] <fenn> libnml.so => ../../lib/libnml.so (0xb7f73000)
[16:49:53] <alex_joni> using rel. dirs :(
[16:50:01] <cradek> % ldd build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/gcode.so
[16:50:07] <cradek> libnml.so => /home/chris/emc2/lib/libnml.so (0x40033000)
[16:50:09] <fenn> er, i think i screwed that up
[16:50:35] <fenn> i set emc2root to ../../ the first time i compiled it, then i deleted gcode.so and re-installed
[16:50:45] <cradek> ... -o build/lib.linux-i686-2.2/gcode.so -DNEW_INTERPRETER -Wl,-rpath,/home/chris/emc2/lib
[16:50:51] <alex_joni> and you're wondering it won't work...
[16:51:04] <cradek> oh, yeah, don't do that :-)
[16:51:52] <alex_joni> and then he comes in here wining that it won't work :D
[16:52:01] <fenn> bah
[16:52:02] <alex_joni> cradek: btw, wanted to ask you about this .so linking
[16:52:12] <alex_joni> fenn: don't mind me ;) I'm just kidding
[16:52:24] <alex_joni> cradek: how is it supposed to work when make install'ing ?
[16:52:38] <alex_joni> should the verious dependencies get relinked?
[16:52:56] <alex_joni> against the installed .so ?
[16:52:57] <cradek> no, you should put the libraries somewhere in ld.so's path
[16:53:04] <alex_joni> ahh.. then it knows?
[16:53:10] <cradek> see /etc/ld.so.conf
[16:54:07] <fenn> i thought "setup.py clean" would remove the stuff in axis/build/
[16:54:21] <fenn> guess not
[16:55:20] <fenn> well, it works now..
[16:55:36] <alex_joni> coo
[16:57:49] <SWPadnos> so - with emc1, is there a way to change limit switch pin assignments without recompiling?
[17:00:10] <cradek> alex_joni: ld's -rpath only adds a library to the search path. You can just put those .so files in any usual system lib directory instead, if you like.
[17:00:34] <alex_joni> ahh.. I see
[17:00:38] <cradek> alex_joni: another fix would be to ditch all the -rpath and have emc.run set LD_LIBRARY_PATH for the run-in-place case
[17:00:48] <SWPadnos> eek - that poses a problem in some odd developer situations
[17:00:58] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: like?
[17:01:06] <SWPadnos> the rpath thing, not LD_LIBRARY_PATH
[17:01:06] <alex_joni> chris: will you be around later?
[17:01:18] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: right now it's with -rpath
[17:01:23] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home..
[17:01:24] <SWPadnos> well -make a copy of a dev tree, on a system where emc2 has been "installed"
[17:01:36] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: *g*
[17:01:38] <SWPadnos> and you end up with the "installed" versions of libraries
[17:01:43] <SWPadnos> silently
[17:01:46] <alex_joni> :P
[17:01:47] <cradek> I'll be around off and on until 2300 UTC
[17:01:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:01:59] <alex_joni> UTC doesn't say anything to me
[17:02:01] <alex_joni> talk GMT ;)
[17:02:11] <SWPadnos> 2500 your time (or is it 2600?)
[17:02:12] <fenn> stardate
[17:02:19] <cradek> uh, it hasn't been called GMT for years
[17:02:40] <cradek> I'll be around off and on until 2300 GMT
[17:04:48] <alex_joni> I'm GMT + 2 :P
[17:04:50] <alex_joni> ok..
[17:04:57] <alex_joni> gone now.. later guys
[17:07:15] <cradek> SWPadnos: from my reading of ld.so(8), the -rpath is searched before the default search path
[17:07:34] <cradek> SWPadnos: also, LD_LIBRARY_PATH is searched before the default search path
[17:07:41] <cradek> SWPadnos: so I don't think there is a problem with either scheme.
[17:07:57] <SWPadnos> the problem we had was that renaming a development dir caused emc2 to not run, because the rpath was a fully qualified path
[17:08:05] <SWPadnos> there are missing symbols
[17:08:26] <cradek> I don't consider that a problem
[17:08:50] <SWPadnos> so, making emc.run change the LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a good idea, as long as it uses some form of `pwd` for non-installed emc2
[17:09:16] <SWPadnos> it's just a pain - copy emc2 to another user directory, and it mysteriously doesn't work any more
[17:09:17] <cradek> I thought you were talking about a potential problem with make install
[17:09:28] <cradek> I thought you were talking about a potential problem with make install's interaction with another run-in-place tree
[17:09:38] <SWPadnos> yes - that's what I'm talking about
[17:09:51] <cradek> then I don't understand what you're saying at all
[17:10:01] <SWPadnos> if the directory is renamed after make, then that dir will use the installed libs, not the local libs
[17:10:15] <cradek> yes, that's right
[17:10:35] <SWPadnos> that's bad, if you're trying to test e.g. changes you've just made WRT. an old version
[17:10:50] <SWPadnos> would you like an example?
[17:10:57] <cradek> no, I understand what you're saying
[17:10:59] <SWPadnos> ok
[17:11:03] <cradek> I just don't think it's a big problem
[17:11:09] <cradek> that's what you get when you use -rpath
[17:11:12] <SWPadnos> not a big problem, just a PITA
[17:11:17] <SWPadnos> apparently so :)
[17:11:38] <cradek> like I said though, we could ditch -rpath and use a relative LD_LIBRARY_PATH
[17:11:47] <SWPadnos> I'm all for that
[17:12:02] <SWPadnos> add something like this to emc.run:
[17:12:23] <cradek> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=lib
[17:12:25] <SWPadnos> export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:`pwd`/libs
[17:12:52] <SWPadnos> do those have to be absolute paths (security issues aside)?
[17:12:59] <cradek> doubt it
[17:13:44] <cradek> man page says it's ignored if setuid/setgid, but no other restrictions
[17:14:14] <SWPadnos> ok - cool.
[17:14:27] <SWPadnos> I'll try that and make some changes if I get anything to work ;)
[17:14:35] <SWPadnos> s/changes/commits/
[17:48:04] <alex_joni> hello
[17:50:30] <Jymmm> olleh
[17:50:59] <alex_joni> ehlo
[17:51:04] <Jymmm> alex_joni you made that 3 motor wire thingy, didn't you?
[17:51:11] <alex_joni> yes..
[17:51:30] <Jymmm> if you get some spare time, let me know.
[17:51:47] <alex_joni> a bit..
[17:52:03] <alex_joni> I would have something to do.. but no urge to really do it :D
[17:52:28] <Jymmm> lol
[18:03:09] <SWPadnos> I have a spare tire
[18:03:20] <SWPadnos> oh - wait - *time*
[18:03:47] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: only if it's 40"+
[18:03:54] <SWPadnos> oh yeah, baby
[18:03:58] <SWPadnos> oh - the tire
[18:04:04] <alex_joni> for les's tractor
[18:04:09] <SWPadnos> I see
[18:04:22] <alex_joni> in chrome of course
[18:04:25] <alex_joni> bling bling
[18:04:37] <SWPadnos> so - let me repeat my earlier question:
[18:05:32] <SWPadnos> so - with emc1, is there a way to change limit switch pin assignments without recompiling?
[18:06:21] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: sure..
[18:06:32] <alex_joni> but it involves rerouting wires on the motherboard
[18:06:33] <fenn> get out your soldering iron..
[18:06:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:06:45] <SWPadnos> ok, so it's either hardware or recompile
[18:06:53] <alex_joni> or emc2 ;)
[18:07:12] <SWPadnos> I'm composing a response to a question on CCED, and didn't want to overlook some obvious thing
[18:07:19] <SWPadnos> yes - I mention emc2
[18:07:27] <alex_joni> http://www.snopes.com/photos/automobiles/silveraudi.asp
[18:07:29] <SWPadnos> and the XYLOTEX define
[18:08:00] <SWPadnos> DeLorean actually had a gold plated car
[18:08:17] <SWPadnos> you had two choices - stainless steel, or gold plate
[18:08:32] <SWPadnos> the cost difference was $100k (in the late '70s)
[18:10:23] <SWPadnos> it should have been obvious to the writer of that text that the sheik who bought this car isn't a "camel jockey" ;)
[18:10:49] <alex_joni> lol.. guess so
[18:11:46] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: tried the latest emc2?
[18:11:54] <alex_joni> still buggy? or did the fix I commited work?
[18:12:00] <SWPadnos> no - still trying to get past the failed readline update :(
[18:12:12] <alex_joni> failed readline?
[18:12:29] <SWPadnos> yeah - I went for "mark all upgrades" in synaptic
[18:12:35] <SWPadnos> I guess it was a mistake
[18:13:10] <SWPadnos> it can't update readline for some reason, and there's a lot that depends on that (like a bunch of KDE and development apps)
[18:14:05] <fenn> sounds like halcmd needs some o' that
[18:14:12] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:14:19] <alex_joni> o' what?
[18:14:19] <Jymmm> http://static.flickr.com/31/63920683_4c9ffd9b7e_m.jpg
[18:14:22] <SWPadnos> readline and getopt, I'd say
[18:14:47] <Jymmm> http://static.flickr.com/27/63920684_9c29dfa3df_m.jpg
[18:15:13] <fenn> wow is that styrofoam?
[18:15:25] <SWPadnos> looks plaster-ish to me
[18:15:43] <Jymmm> lol, no... just a poor paint job
[18:16:04] <Jymmm> actually.a a Q&D paint job (first coat)
[18:16:19] <SWPadnos> it's wood, then :)
[18:16:24] <Jymmm> MDF
[18:16:31] <fenn> compressed sawdust and frozen snot
[18:16:42] <SWPadnos> mmmm - breakfast
[18:16:43] <Jymmm> yep
[18:17:20] <fenn> would it be exceedingly hard to make my own switching power supply?
[18:17:46] <SWPadnos> not if you use a switching supply controller chip
[18:17:57] <SWPadnos> LM267x
[18:18:07] <SWPadnos> but it depends on the current and voltage you want
[18:18:13] <SWPadnos> and ripple
[18:18:18] <SWPadnos> and noise
[18:18:23] <Jymmm> 1.2 Gigawatts!!!
[18:18:28] <SWPadnos> (shall I continue? :) )
[18:18:46] <SWPadnos> off by one there, Jymmm - it's 1.21 Gigawatts
[18:18:56] <Jymmm> my bad
[18:20:22] <alex_joni> fenn: what do you need that for?
[18:20:35] <alex_joni> certainly not for driving the amps..
[18:20:43] <alex_joni> a traditional one can be even better
[18:20:51] <alex_joni> and you don't need that stable voltage..
[18:20:55] <fenn> well, then i gotta get a transformer
[18:21:13] <alex_joni> get a toroidal one ;)
[18:21:16] <alex_joni> nice and small
[18:21:29] <fenn> my first thought was to use th micro to switch ~180V and simultaneously modulate voltage and current
[18:21:42] <fenn> but i thought it might blow stuff up if the software was buggy
[18:22:46] <SWPadnos> fenn, let me say one thing, and please understand that I'm not trying to be a pain
[18:23:06] <SWPadnos> UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHOULD YOU MAKE A SERVO SYSTEM WITHOUT AN ISOLATION TRANSFORMER!!!
[18:23:16] <SWPadnos> ok - I feel better now :)
[18:23:21] <Jymmm> fenn: what SWPadnos said.
[18:23:33] <K`zan> Morning folks.
[18:23:34] <SWPadnos> you *will* kill someone
[18:23:41] <SWPadnos> morning
[18:23:56] <K`zan> Yeah, an iso xfmr is NOT NOT NOT optional...
[18:24:10] <Jymmm> Death by CNC
[18:24:18] <K`zan> Most likely.
[18:24:19] <SWPadnos> this means a real transformer, with two separate windings, not an autotransformer (variac)
[18:24:39] <K`zan> Got 450V at about 250mA once and lived, that was enough to educate me...
[18:24:59] <Jymmm> fenn I have a bunch of US sources if needed
[18:25:05] <fenn> Jymmm: please
[18:25:08] <SWPadnos> heh - try sticking bobby pins in electrical outlets during a thunderstorm -that's really fun ;)
[18:25:29] <K`zan> * K`zan was DAMN lucky.
[18:25:37] <Jymmm> http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&Webpage_ID=3&DID=7&CAT_ID=45&ObjectGroup_ID=329&SO=2
[18:25:47] <Jymmm> http://www.avellindberg.com/
[18:25:55] <SWPadnos> http//www.toroid.com/
[18:25:57] <Jymmm> http://www.mpja.com/productview.asp?product=7846+TR
[18:25:59] <SWPadnos> http://www.toroid.com/
[18:26:16] <Jymmm> http://www.mcitransformer.com/i_product.html
[18:26:18] <SWPadnos> http://www.surpluscenter.com/
[18:26:24] <SWPadnos> (hard to search though)
[18:26:31] <K`zan> Not a bad price from MPJ, but shipping might be interesting...
[18:27:06] <SWPadnos> ebay is pretty good as well, as long as you're not in a hurry
[18:27:25] <SWPadnos> and you don't want more than one :)
[18:27:49] <Jymmm> fenn: mci will make you one if needed.
[18:28:20] <Jymmm> fenn in qty of one too
[18:29:57] <fenn> can you make a toroid out of a speaker magnet? those are ferrite..
[18:30:13] <SWPadnos> not a toroid, but you could possibly wind a transformer on one
[18:30:26] <fenn> uh.. what?
[18:30:41] <SWPadnos> speaker magnets aren't toroidal, are they?
[18:30:55] <fenn> they are a square cross-section ring
[18:31:07] <fenn> is that not a toroid?
[18:31:08] <SWPadnos> ah - I had never taken the center plate off one
[18:31:15] <SWPadnos> in that case, yes, you could :)
[18:31:32] <alex_joni> fenn: pretty close..
[18:31:49] <SWPadnos> technically, it's a donut (circular cross-section)
[18:32:14] <fenn> technically it's a donut huh
[18:32:44] <fenn> what happens if i use a switch-mode p/s and something goes wrong?
[18:33:01] <SWPadnos> depends on what goes wrong
[18:33:12] <fenn> what makes it safer than a transformer?
[18:33:14] <fenn> er, less safe
[18:33:19] <alex_joni> switch-mode p/s doesn't isolate
[18:33:21] <SWPadnos> if the switching circuit fails with the output FETs on, then you apply full source voltage to the load
[18:33:40] <alex_joni> so if something goes wrong and you touch the motor mounts you might die
[18:33:44] <SWPadnos> switch-mode and transformer aren't comparable terms
[18:33:55] <SWPadnos> you can use a switch-mode supply after an isolation transformer
[18:34:01] <SWPadnos> which would be isolated
[18:34:09] <alex_joni> yup.. but you gotta have one
[18:34:16] <SWPadnos> it's a question of how the regulation is done, not the isolation
[18:34:19] <alex_joni> so if you already get one.. why bother?
[18:34:33] <alex_joni> you don't need good regulation for amp supply
[18:34:47] <SWPadnos> for servos, switchers aren't recommended
[18:34:59] <SWPadnos> you already have a switcher in the PWM drive anyway
[18:35:07] <fenn> yup
[18:35:12] <SWPadnos> and it's bad to feed one switcher from another
[18:35:25] <SWPadnos> it just doesn't work well
[18:36:54] <fenn> what was all that talk about modulating the voltage into the motors?
[18:37:08] <SWPadnos> which talk?
[18:37:19] <fenn> i was asking jmk about using a comparator to regulate current
[18:37:32] <SWPadnos> ah - that conversation
[18:37:50] <SWPadnos> what about it? :)
[18:38:12] <fenn> what's the point of doing that if you have to have an isolation xfmr?
[18:38:25] <SWPadnos> two different domains
[18:38:36] <fenn> because that's inherently dangerous anyway?
[18:38:43] <SWPadnos> no
[18:39:02] <SWPadnos> you modulate current in the motor so you don't melt the windings (or overheat the motor)
[18:39:37] <SWPadnos> you use an isolation transformer so that it's possible for a person to touch something in the control cabinet and still have a chance of living to tell the tale
[18:40:09] <fenn> sorry i wasn't clear.. what's the point of modulating the voltage to the motor?
[18:40:13] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yeah.. the tale about them touching a red-glowing motor
[18:40:14] <alex_joni> ROFL
[18:40:31] <SWPadnos> it regulates current
[18:40:56] <Jymmm> fenn: Here, you can make your own torroid with any voltage you want --> http://www.toroid.com/standard_transformers/transformer_kits/transformer_kits.htm
[18:41:13] <SWPadnos> yep - I've seen that, it looks like a great thing
[18:41:34] <Jymmm> fenn: call them and they can email you the manual to look at
[18:41:44] <Jymmm> it's 14 pages
[18:42:11] <fenn> jymmm wanna just mail it to me?
[18:44:11] <fenn> i guess i totally misunderstood that conversation
[18:44:38] <SWPadnos> I may be misrepresenting it as well
[18:44:52] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos has imperfect memory
[18:51:29] <fenn> ok you were talking about handing control back+forth between two peripherals.. i thought you meant some sort of double-modulation scheme
[18:51:46] <SWPadnos> ah - ok
[18:51:59] <SWPadnos> (I think)
[18:54:09] <SWPadnos> kind of a bummer. I bought a transformer on ebay, and it's center tapped, not dual secondaries as described :(
[18:54:30] <fenn> thanks jymmm
[18:54:34] <Jymmm> dual sec would have been 4 wire, not three
[18:54:39] <Jymmm> fenn yw
[18:54:51] <SWPadnos> yeah - I actually counted the wires after I bought it
[18:55:00] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7552506584
[18:55:08] <SWPadnos> nice transformer, but still a bummer
[18:55:31] <Jymmm> I have a 110/24VT xfmr, but no clue on the VA rating.
[18:55:42] <Jymmm> need coffee brb
[18:55:42] <SWPadnos> how much does it weigh?
[18:59:24] <alex_joni> Jymmm: how heavy is it?
[18:59:28] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: lol
[18:59:41] <alex_joni> seen that only after I wrote..
[19:00:13] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:00:29] <alex_joni> you know what they say..
[19:00:36] <alex_joni> "great minds think alike ..."
[19:00:37] <alex_joni> :P
[19:01:20] <SWPadnos> like -great minds think?
[19:01:36] <alex_joni> probably
[19:01:47] <SWPadnos> well - the apt-update problem may boil down to a locale problem
[19:02:32] <alex_joni> last time I fiddle with apt, I managed to uninstall "init"
[19:02:37] <SWPadnos> there are a ton of messages like "Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory"
[19:02:40] <SWPadnos> oops :)
[19:02:46] <alex_joni> guess what ;)
[19:02:48] <SWPadnos> OK as long as you don't reboot
[19:02:50] <alex_joni> didn't boot ..
[19:02:53] <alex_joni> anymore
[19:03:06] <alex_joni> I didn't notice it.. until I rebooted
[19:03:11] <alex_joni> then it came to me.. oopsy :D
[19:03:16] <SWPadnos> linux init=/bin/bash
[19:03:41] <alex_joni> linux init=/bin/false
[19:03:47] <alex_joni> then encrypt the bootloader
[19:03:49] <alex_joni> :D
[19:03:58] <SWPadnos> this is a bit annoying, because this conputer has no CD-ROM - else I'd just do an upgrade / install of 4.30
[19:03:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:04:19] <alex_joni> try floppies
[19:04:21] <SWPadnos> I have to remove 15 screws to get inside the case if I want to use a CD
[19:04:30] <SWPadnos> no floppy drive either
[19:04:42] <SWPadnos> HD and ethernet (plus 4 serial and 2 parallel)
[19:05:00] <SWPadnos> keyboard and mouse too ;)
[19:06:14] <alex_joni> USB CDROM?
[19:06:29] <SWPadnos> n oUSB until I add a slot cover connector
[19:06:35] <SWPadnos> (15 screws ...)
[19:06:41] <alex_joni> parallel cd-rom?
[19:06:58] <SWPadnos> don't have one, and wouldn't be able to boot from that anyway
[19:07:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos sure you can.
[19:07:10] <SWPadnos> (for a BDI4.30 upgrade)
[19:07:11] <alex_joni> probably not :)
[19:07:25] <fenn> can you boot from network?
[19:07:43] <alex_joni> can you boot?
[19:07:44] <SWPadnos> I don't think so - this isn't a very new machine
[19:08:00] <alex_joni> * alex_joni sends SWPadnos a brand new boot
[19:08:00] <Jymmm> remove the hdd and your back to XT/AT days less the dual 5.25" floppies
[19:08:02] <SWPadnos> well - I have an empty locale directory - maybe that isn't helping
[19:08:21] <SWPadnos> no 8" floppy either
[19:08:31] <Jymmm> lol
[19:08:35] <fenn> just enter the linux kernel via the keyboard
[19:08:43] <SWPadnos> 0010101000101010101011011010011010
[19:08:45] <SWPadnos> etc
[19:08:45] <Jymmm> yeah, what fenn said
[19:09:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Look you lazy bastard, get you cordless screwdriver and remove the damn screws already!
[19:09:29] <cradek> Jymmm: <pedant> The XT did NOT have dual floppies </pedant>
[19:09:31] <SWPadnos> I'm not lazy - I use a manual screwdriver
[19:09:40] <Jymmm> cradek: Mine did =)
[19:09:49] <SWPadnos> they weren't standard, but were available
[19:09:57] <fenn> swp if you dont want that transformer i'll take it
[19:10:01] <SWPadnos> four, once the spiffy new half-height ones arrived on the scene
[19:10:07] <Jymmm> OS on A, application on B =)
[19:10:09] <SWPadnos> thanks, but no thanks :)
[19:10:37] <SWPadnos> even better - boot floppy 1+2 in A+B, swap for run and data disk
[19:10:50] <SWPadnos> and if it crashes over the weekend, no BBS until monday
[19:11:01] <SWPadnos> (RBBS and TBBS were like that)
[19:11:12] <Bronson> I spent some time following these directions: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_Install but am getting errors. Is that link current?
[19:11:19] <Jymmm> Spitfire is much easier
[19:11:35] <jepler> Bronson: "As of mid-August 2005, the bdi-4 branch described on this page no longer works." -- that page
[19:11:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: FWIW, they have Spitfire for *nix now.
[19:12:19] <SWPadnos> doesn't matter to me - I left high school many years ago
[19:12:21] <Bronson> I want to recompile 4.18
[19:12:28] <cradek> I don't think anyone has a clue how to compile a recent emc1(.5) for bdi4
[19:12:34] <alex_joni> Bronson: 4.18 ???
[19:12:40] <alex_joni> you really should get a newer one..
[19:12:51] <Bronson> the brain dead install version 4.18
[19:12:52] <cradek> Bronson: anything < 4.29 may be badly broken
[19:12:55] <alex_joni> 4.20 was a first stable one, 4.30 is the current recomended one
[19:12:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'd love to start a BBS... FidoNet is still alive and kicking too.
[19:13:08] <Bronson> ok
[19:13:11] <SWPadnos> remember Channel1?
[19:13:16] <alex_joni> Jymmm: you already got BS, get another B
[19:13:23] <cradek> Jymmm: you're approximately 10 years too late
[19:13:25] <SWPadnos> Beaucoup BS :)
[19:13:32] <alex_joni> Bronson: if you can.. reinstall, or upgrade your BDI
[19:13:49] <alex_joni> cradek: make that 12 :P
[19:13:58] <alex_joni> btw, just found a 1200 bps modem today..
[19:14:04] <Jymmm> cradek: Nah, would work perfect for radio
[19:14:06] <alex_joni> about 10 pounds
[19:14:18] <Bronson> Are there new instructions, or do I simply check out a different branch?
[19:14:28] <Bronson> I need to be able to recompile I think
[19:14:38] <alex_joni> Bronson: let me look
[19:14:40] <SWPadnos> what kind of errors do you get?
[19:14:53] <Bronson> I am getting the "radius to end of arc differs from end of arc" error
[19:15:05] <alex_joni> that's not a bug..
[19:15:12] <alex_joni> probably a wrong entered value
[19:15:16] <alex_joni> what are you trying to do?
[19:15:17] <Bronson> really this one: "radius to end of arc differs from radius to start"
[19:15:26] <fenn> his cam program is rounding wrong i bet
[19:15:31] <Bronson> I have toopaths created in Mastercam with cutter comp
[19:15:32] <alex_joni> G2 ?, G3?
[19:15:37] <Bronson> g3
[19:15:53] <alex_joni> can you output the command? and the position from where it's trying to do the G3?
[19:16:16] <Bronson> let me dig it up again
[19:16:31] <fenn> Bronson: it might be easier to just set the tolerance lower in your cam program
[19:16:44] <Bronson> ok
[19:16:56] <fenn> dunno why i didnt think of that last night
[19:16:57] <Bronson> I have used mastercam with HAAS machines with no problems
[19:17:02] <SWPadnos> or higher in EMC (I think there's an ini setting for that)
[19:17:10] <fenn> SWP it's a define
[19:17:16] <SWPadnos> ah
[19:17:36] <fenn> sorta thinng that should be an inii setting though
[19:17:40] <Bronson> don't I want the cam to be more accurate?
[19:17:45] <SWPadnos> yes
[19:17:51] <Rap2> is there any way to get the G-Code window to display what command is coming up rather than just the one it stoped at?
[19:17:53] <fenn> low tolerance = accurate
[19:17:58] <Bronson> or emc to be more lenient?
[19:17:59] <SWPadnos> but that can also make extremely large .nc files
[19:18:43] <Bronson> I not really worried about nc file sizes
[19:18:54] <Bronson> as long as it fits on a floppy
[19:18:57] <SWPadnos> heh :)
[19:19:22] <Bronson> the compile of bdi is my current challenge
[19:19:41] <alex_joni> Bronson: get emc2 and fiddle with that
[19:19:45] <SWPadnos> those are the wrrors I was asking about :)
[19:19:48] <SWPadnos> errors
[19:20:03] <Bronson> is emc2 stable?
[19:20:10] <Bronson> I read it was not ready yet
[19:20:13] <cradek> * cradek coughs
[19:20:16] <alex_joni> depends on what you understand under stable..
[19:20:31] <fenn> Bronson: not by a long shot
[19:20:32] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos shuffles his feet
[19:20:38] <Bronson> does it crash?
[19:20:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni had no crashes..
[19:20:47] <SWPadnos> it really depends on the hardware you're using, and the machine
[19:20:51] <alex_joni> but heard of some..
[19:20:53] <fenn> it might crash your milling machine :)
[19:20:56] <fenn> does that count?
[19:21:11] <Bronson> heh, I am not feeling really confident about emc2....
[19:22:04] <fenn> is anyone working on putting enable pins in stepmod?
[19:22:09] <alex_joni> fenn: it was chosen used to retrofit a BIG machine..
[19:22:13] <alex_joni> fenn: that's history
[19:22:16] <Jymmm> * Jymmm send the bill for replacement bits to fenn
[19:22:17] <SWPadnos> no - Alex did that last night :)
[19:22:23] <fenn> ok good
[19:22:24] <Bronson> is it possible to get the source for 4.18 that will compile?
[19:22:44] <alex_joni> Bronson: you might want to checkout using -rbdi_4.18
[19:22:48] <alex_joni> but I'm not so sure such a tag exists
[19:23:00] <Bronson> ok, will give it a shot
[19:23:23] <Bronson> 4.18 has been working fine for me and I just need to sort out the arc error
[19:23:29] <Bronson> not looking to create any new variables
[19:23:35] <Bronson> I am using it with a sherline mini mill
[19:23:49] <alex_joni> emc2 might just work great for a sherline
[19:24:13] <Bronson> will the sherline interface need modifications to work with emc2?
[19:24:20] <alex_joni> no
[19:24:30] <Bronson> with project has the stable emc2?
[19:24:47] <Bronson> is the trunk cool?
[19:24:51] <Rap2> whats a well supported card to get at a reasonable price?
[19:25:12] <alex_joni> Rap2: what card?
[19:25:44] <Rap2> for the computer to control the mill that is supported by linux and the mill software
[19:26:35] <alex_joni> Bronson: there is a bdi-4_18 tag in the tree, not sure if it's any good though.. you probably won't get any support on that
[19:26:38] <Jymmm> details man, details.
[19:26:44] <alex_joni> Rap2: servo card?
[19:26:49] <Bronson> I will give emc2 a shot
[19:26:50] <fenn> Rap2: hobbycnc is pretty cheap for small steppers
[19:26:53] <alex_joni> I'd pick a Motenc lite
[19:27:10] <fenn> Rap2: what kind of machine are you controlling?
[19:27:14] <Rap2> yea a servo card
[19:27:21] <Bronson> I just don't want to be re-homing my machine alot, that is lame
[19:27:32] <Rap2> the machine we have now is a Maho 500 with 4 axis
[19:27:59] <Rap2> we have some ISA card, Im a newb so forgive my ignoarance
[19:28:22] <Jymmm> http://www.kstroje.cz/stroje/frezky/MAHO-MH-500-W4.jpg
[19:29:21] <Jymmm> Love the DRO.... http://metalworking.com/DropBox/_2004_retired_files/Maho_500M_control.jpg
[19:29:22] <fenn> emc supports servo-to-go if that's the card you have already
[19:29:38] <fenn> (doubtful)
[19:30:15] <alex_joni> so does emc2 ;)
[19:30:39] <alex_joni> * alex_joni needs a veyron
[19:30:48] <alex_joni> http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/10/veyron06_01.jpg
[19:31:43] <Jymmm> alex_joni: You only get this --> http://webpages.marshall.edu/~penning3/pictures/YUGO.JPG
[19:32:45] <SWPadnos> the veyron is a pretty impressive engineering feat
[19:34:28] <alex_joni> Jymmm: send it over, I'll mod it
[19:34:32] <alex_joni> it'll look just as cool
[19:34:47] <Jymmm> alex_joni you sick bastard!
[19:39:03] <alex_joni> Jymmm: http://img283.imageshack.us/img283/8210/be1tun3kx.jpg
[19:40:57] <Jymmm> alex_joni whats under the hood... 3 cyl?
[19:41:29] <alex_joni> if you're so lucky
[19:41:35] <alex_joni> usually a little chinese guy
[19:41:45] <Jymmm> what, not squirels?
[19:41:58] <alex_joni> nope.. animal rights
[19:42:05] <Jymmm> ah
[19:42:11] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes for his massage
[19:42:14] <Jymmm> well feed the animals next time
[19:42:15] <alex_joni> later guys :P
[19:45:17] <Bronson> thanks for the help
[19:49:06] <Bronson> I have emc2 running now
[19:49:52] <Bronson> I am trying to run my gcode but am having trouble with the default interface now... I am in auto mode, but when I run I get "cannot be executed until eht machine is outof e-stop and turned on"
[19:50:08] <Bronson> didn't need to do anything other than go to auto mode with the sherline interface
[19:51:38] <Jymmm> F1, F2
[19:52:54] <Bronson> ok, a little different
[19:53:18] <Bronson> it is no longer complaining about the arc!
[19:55:53] <Jymmm> Well shit, revert it back quick!!!
[19:56:27] <Bronson> how different are the .ini files for emc and emc2?
[19:56:41] <Bronson> will it take much porting to get my emc.ini ported over?
[19:57:19] <SWPadnos> not too different, I think. the main thing is that all the hardware connections are now in .hal files (which are specified in the .ini)
[19:59:47] <Bronson> doh, when I set the tool diameter I get the arc error again, it was 0.0 by default
[20:00:14] <Bronson> if my gcode was generated with a .375 diam tool
[20:00:19] <Bronson> I am using cutter comp
[20:00:25] <Bronson> and want to make the tool smaller
[20:00:51] <Bronson> do I put .367 in the tool file to describe a smaller tool diameter?
[20:02:32] <SWPadnos> if you use a smaller number, it'll cut more off the part (ie' it'll cut closer to the line)
[20:03:42] <Jymmm> hi les_w
[20:04:22] <Bronson> that's what I want
[20:05:15] <Bronson> so it doesn't look like emc2 is the answer
[20:05:29] <Bronson> either mastercam is wrong or emc is really picky
[20:06:42] <SWPadnos> I think you should only be using cutter comp in *either* the CAM program *or* in emc, but not both
[20:19:18] <Bronson> hmmm. mastercam has adjustments for tool and then has the option to add in G41/G42 in the gcode
[20:20:12] <Bronson> I was hoping to avoid re-posting, but I can
[20:21:07] <SWPadnos> it just seems to me that you want to compensate in one or the other place, but not both
[20:22:10] <SWPadnos> one other point - you need a lead-in move once cutter comp. is turned on. it only takes effect on the next move after the G40/G41/G42
[20:23:12] <Bronson> yeah, I have that programed
[20:23:19] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:24:00] <SWPadnos> if you have cutter comp in the toolpaths, then just remove the G4x code, or set the tool radius to 0 (so that emc follows the already compensated path)
[20:32:37] <Bronson> ok, I will fall back to not using cutter comp
[20:32:40] <Bronson> thanks for your help
[20:32:46] <Bronson> see ya
[20:32:50] <SWPadnos> sure - I just hope it actually helps :)
[21:33:21] <Jymmm> Fir the fire, he can send the insurance company after SWPadnos
[21:33:27] <Jymmm> s/fir/for/
[21:33:42] <SWPadnos> this is not a competition, this is only an exhibition
[21:33:53] <SWPadnos> uh - no warrantee expressed or implied
[21:34:06] <SWPadnos> I am not suitable for any purpose
[21:34:15] <Jymmm> * Jymmm exhibits his buttocks in SWPadnos' general direction
[21:34:25] <SWPadnos> please, no wagering
[21:38:11] <Jymmm> you know... I REALLY need a better way to zero out my Z axis. Automagically would be nice
[21:39:27] <SWPadnos> poof - it is done
[21:39:42] <SWPadnos> what do you have now?
[21:40:03] <Jymmm> Ye old slip of paper and jog keys
[21:40:10] <Jymmm> btw... what is G40 ?
[21:40:20] <SWPadnos> one sec
[21:40:38] <SWPadnos> cutter comp off
[21:40:43] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[21:41:01] <SWPadnos> G41 = left side, G42 = right side of path
[21:41:56] <cradek> Jymmm: in AXIS you jog down to where you want Z to be zero and hit the Offset button
[21:42:54] <Jymmm> cradek: I mean zeroing out the tool to the top of material (or table)
[21:43:04] <SWPadnos> I think that's what he's talking about
[21:43:08] <cradek> yeah, that's what I mean too
[21:43:14] <SWPadnos> move tool to top of workpiece, hit offset button
[21:43:17] <cradek> you jog down to touch and then hit Offset
[21:43:27] <cradek> I use a feeler gauge
[21:43:36] <Jymmm> cradek and when to you know you have touched the material?
[21:43:41] <cradek> I use a feeler gauge
[21:43:51] <SWPadnos> he uses a feeler gauge
[21:43:52] <Jymmm> Right, I'm using a slip of paper... I mena a automagical way
[21:43:58] <cradek> I use a feeler gauge
[21:44:00] <SWPadnos> he uses a feeler gauge
[21:44:15] <Jymmm> ok, in other words.... no user intervention.
[21:44:30] <cradek> jog down until you touch the top of the feeler gauge, pull it out, jog down its thickness
[21:44:44] <SWPadnos> you can get an expensive tool length calibrator
[21:45:06] <Jymmm> Nah, I'm thinking a vertical switch
[21:45:10] <cradek> the other thing I can do is loosen the tool's set screw, jog down pushing the tool up into the holder, tighten the set screw
[21:45:30] <Jymmm> tool tocuhes down to the switch and that's zero
[21:45:37] <SWPadnos> that's basically what the calibrators are
[21:45:38] <cradek> it would be neat if you could have a spot on the table that is a switch to poke with the tool
[21:45:59] <SWPadnos> they're just usually contact probes (capacitive or the like)
[21:46:04] <Jymmm> cradek that's what I mean. I already found a switch that is accurate to 0.03mm
[21:46:28] <cradek> but that doesn't tell you where the work is.
[21:46:49] <Jymmm> I'm doing sheet stuff mostly
[21:47:45] <Jymmm> gotta muck around with it sometime, but I think I could get there.
[21:48:24] <Jymmm> cradek: Meant to ask you... you have any pics from your bmp to gcode utility?
[21:48:32] <SWPadnos> the offset calibrators (or a switch) would still work for sheet stock, you'd just have to have a list of offsets for the different thicknesses
[21:49:00] <SWPadnos> or reference all the G-code to the bottom of the sheet
[21:49:56] <cradek> Jymmm: nope
[21:50:10] <cradek> I only made one experimental thing with it but it worked fine
[21:51:49] <Jymmm> Yeah, I seem to be finding more of them now, but nobody has pics
[21:52:15] <cradek> you mean a pic of something made with it?
[21:52:20] <Jymmm> yep
[21:52:27] <cradek> the thing I made looked just like you would expect
[21:52:35] <cradek> (seriously)
[21:52:41] <cradek> a pic wouldn't tell you anything
[21:53:04] <cradek> imagine what you would see if you cut an image out with scanlines
[21:53:07] <cradek> that's what it looks like
[21:53:46] <Jymmm> http://www.imagetogcode.com/MM1.jpg
[21:53:55] <Jymmm> http://www.imagetogcode.com/gallery.htm
[21:53:59] <Jymmm> like those?
[21:54:04] <SWPadnos> yeah - just like that ! :)
[21:54:07] <cradek> is that scanline or feature extraction?
[21:54:17] <Jymmm> nfc
[21:54:49] <cradek> those must be hand-colored
[21:55:06] <Jymmm> they're stained
[21:55:13] <Jymmm> to bring out the highlights
[21:55:23] <cradek> IMO they are as much paintings as engravings
[21:55:38] <Jymmm> I dont think theyre painted
[21:55:46] <Jymmm> just one layer of stain
[21:55:52] <cradek> look at Jenny for instance
[21:55:57] <cradek> why is her skin light and her dress dark?
[21:56:04] <cradek> in all of these, the whole face is painted in
[21:56:15] <Jymmm> painted with what?
[21:56:18] <cradek> nfc
[21:56:28] <SWPadnos> because they say that you shuold mil lthe piece, stain, and then lightly sand
[21:56:35] <SWPadnos> the high spots lighten
[21:56:40] <cradek> but they obviously aren't a simple matter of milling and slapping some stain on
[21:56:48] <Jymmm> the satin is just for contrasting the mill work
[21:56:59] <Jymmm> cradek why not?
[21:57:00] <SWPadnos> no - "sand it with very fine paper" is what they recommend
[21:57:22] <SWPadnos> (in the quick start guide)
[21:57:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos yep
[21:57:32] <cradek> huh, ok, I'd believe it when I see it
[21:58:36] <Jymmm> Well, I'm gonna try in a few minutes... first on mdf for testing, then some popular it it turns out ok.
[21:58:53] <SWPadnos> it's X-Y scan, with the option to also separate Z into separate moves
[21:59:25] <cradek> that's going to be a LOT of scanlines for detail like Jenny's face
[22:00:25] <Jymmm> cradek: Better than not at all
[22:00:34] <Jymmm> (or buying a laser)
[22:00:45] <Jymmm> which still takes forever
[22:01:10] <cradek> I've also played with feature extraction (autotrace)
[22:01:17] <Jymmm> I know, I took one of my photographs in and video taped it being rasterized on the laser engraver.
[22:01:20] <cradek> not what you want for photos, but maybe for line art
[22:02:07] <Jymmm> Well, if it takes 2 hours and can get $250 , wth.
[22:02:28] <Jymmm> urn boxes, etc.
[22:02:37] <cradek> urn?
[22:02:47] <Jymmm> cradek created body container
[22:02:51] <Jymmm> cremated
[22:02:52] <cradek> oh, ugh
[22:03:12] <cradek> I bet you could get good money for that
[22:03:35] <cradek> people are peculiar about that kind of ritual
[22:03:41] <Jymmm> Yep, I know a company that does. They are using laser engravers and the work is FUCKING EXCEPTIONAL
[22:03:53] <SWPadnos> check out CNC Toolkit for 5-axis stuff (assuming that not all urns are flat :) )
[22:04:13] <cradek> don't you think [recently deceased] deserves and would have wanted [expensive treatment]?
[22:04:23] <SWPadnos> absolutely
[22:04:47] <Jymmm> But for me... fuck it... toss me in a cardboard box and throw my ashes into the wind
[22:05:00] <Jymmm> or dumpster, whichever is closest
[22:05:04] <SWPadnos> burn you in a cardboard box
[22:05:12] <Jymmm> there ya go.
[22:05:13] <SWPadnos> wouldn't want to pullote :)
[22:05:17] <SWPadnos> pollute
[22:06:16] <Jymmm> But... I know everyone else spends so much money on that stuff.... As they say death and taxes, an I hve competing with the IRS
[22:06:28] <Jymmm> s/hve/hate/
[22:06:52] <alex_joni> evening all
[22:06:53] <SWPadnos> but - this is capitalism - competition is good!
[22:06:55] <SWPadnos> hi Alex
[22:07:06] <alex_joni> yes.. competition is very good :D
[22:07:18] <SWPadnos> finally got past the stupid readline problem (dpkg --force-install ...)
[22:07:25] <alex_joni> lol..
[22:07:27] <SWPadnos> now I'm missing about 6000 packages
[22:07:35] <alex_joni> oh sweet
[22:07:46] <SWPadnos> but at least there are no broken dependencies
[22:08:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, when I get my small arms, and ICBM inventory up a little, I'll consider it.
[22:08:05] <SWPadnos> the KDE menu is exceedingly small
[22:08:18] <SWPadnos> ok - check eBay
[22:08:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos fucker!
[22:08:29] <Jymmm> lol
[22:08:39] <SWPadnos> there have been a fighter jet and an aircraft carrier for sale - who knows what you'll find
[22:08:52] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yes, but no arms on those aircrafts
[22:09:09] <SWPadnos> actually, this one apparently wasn't "safed"
[22:09:09] <alex_joni> what arms?
[22:09:19] <SWPadnos> the FBI started looking into it
[22:09:24] <Jymmm> alex_joni munitions
[22:09:44] <alex_joni> coo
[22:10:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I need to get my ATF permit first... bastards want $50/yr
[22:10:19] <SWPadnos> I actually know someone who knows someone who bought a MIG
[22:10:42] <SWPadnos> imagine - $50/yr to own a $700,000,000 ship
[22:10:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni sells MIG's
[22:10:48] <alex_joni> MIG/MAG's even
[22:10:52] <SWPadnos> (jet, not welder)
[22:10:56] <alex_joni> :P
[22:10:59] <alex_joni> I know :D
[22:10:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:11:03] <SWPadnos> duh
[22:11:06] <SWPadnos> oh
[22:11:20] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I dont need to own a jet or boat... the permit is just to mfg and use. (well, that's two permits)
[22:11:56] <SWPadnos> the guy got a bit scared when he went to Russia to pick it up, and the drink farmer rides out on his tractor to meet him :)
[22:12:04] <Jymmm> So thats the fed, then the state, then the local gov.....
[22:12:06] <SWPadnos> s/drink/drunk/
[22:13:27] <Jymmm> did he buy it?
[22:13:41] <SWPadnos> yes
[22:14:06] <Jymmm> did he get it into thte states?
[22:14:08] <SWPadnos> carrying a briefcase full of rubles wasn't the safest thing to do at the time :)
[22:14:30] <SWPadnos> I believe so - he had to take it apart somewhat for shipment (I don't think he was allowed to just fly it in)
[22:14:53] <SWPadnos> I don't recall the details - it was the friend of the father of a friend of mine, so ...
[22:14:57] <Jymmm> for risk of being shot out of the sky =)
[22:15:03] <SWPadnos> heh - yeah
[22:15:19] <SWPadnos> "no - really, I'd just like to land. yes, I know what the transponder says"
[22:15:26] <Jymmm> lol
[22:19:37] <ValarQ> "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." -- rfc1925
[22:22:57] <SWPadnos> similar to Howitzer rounds
[22:25:33] <les_w> hi all
[22:25:45] <SWPadnos> hi Les
[22:25:51] <Jacky^> hi les_w
[22:26:06] <les_w> about time for me to set up that anodizing line
[22:26:17] <SWPadnos> any recommendation on which RT kernel is best?
[22:26:23] <SWPadnos> for a BDI upgrade
[22:26:45] <les_w> I wonder if walmart plastic bins will handle sulfuric acid and KoH
[22:26:54] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I am running 2.6.10-adeos and 2.6.12-magma
[22:26:58] <alex_joni> both pretty ok
[22:26:59] <SWPadnos> depends on the plastic, I guess
[22:27:06] <alex_joni> hi les
[22:27:20] <SWPadnos> OK - I see several -Adeos -Magma and -fusion versions listed
[22:27:33] <les_w> who knows...prob ethylene copoymers
[22:27:44] <les_w> hi alex
[22:27:47] <SWPadnos> there's a 2.6.13-fusion - know anything about that?
[22:28:00] <SWPadnos> 2.6.13.2-fusion
[22:28:06] <alex_joni> don't try fusion
[22:28:13] <SWPadnos> OK - 12-magma it is :)
[22:28:16] <alex_joni> unless you plan to make emc/emc2 work with that..
[22:28:25] <alex_joni> and I really don't think you do...
[22:28:26] <SWPadnos> no problem
[22:28:31] <SWPadnos> problem
[22:28:37] <alex_joni> although it would be nice :)
[22:28:41] <alex_joni> what problem?
[22:28:47] <SWPadnos> I'd just like to get some normal apps back, like konsole, for instance
[22:28:56] <SWPadnos> (problem - joke)
[22:29:56] <SWPadnos> things like kdevelop seem to be missing - in the database, but no available version ...
[22:34:14] <cradek> keep going, you're almost rid of KDE
[22:34:47] <SWPadnos> heh - if only I had gnome, xfce, windowmaker, blackbox, etc installed
[22:34:53] <SWPadnos> any one of, actually
[22:45:02] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: xfce might be easy to install
[22:45:25] <SWPadnos> yeah. I'm just not sure of whatever else may be missing
[22:45:34] <alex_joni> that's the best way..
[22:45:38] <alex_joni> just install as you need them
[22:45:50] <SWPadnos> openoffice is gone, kdevelop / qt designer / libs / headers / etc.
[22:47:17] <alex_joni> alex_joni has changed the topic to: "Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home: www.linuxcnc.org | Regular Developers' meetings every Sunday 14:00-18:00 GMT | wiki up @ http://wiki.linuxcnc.org | EMC usage map: http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller"
[22:54:27] <SWPadnos> ok - so other than xfce and xfce-goodies, any other recommended packages for xfce?
[22:54:36] <alex_joni> xterm
[22:54:40] <alex_joni> should be enough
[22:55:21] <SWPadnos> hmmm- I kind of like Kate for editing though - any syntax hilighting editors for xfce? (*not* vi or emacs)
[22:55:33] <SWPadnos> or derivatives
[22:55:39] <alex_joni> mc?
[22:55:50] <alex_joni> that's all I use...
[22:55:55] <SWPadnos> maybe - I don't really know it though
[22:56:05] <SWPadnos> I saw Paul using it - man he's fast
[22:56:07] <alex_joni> it's nice.. ctrl-O and you got a shell
[22:56:11] <alex_joni> make & run
[22:56:17] <alex_joni> ctrl-o .. back to editing
[22:56:43] <SWPadnos> Kate does that pretty well also - there's a terminal tab at the bottom
[22:57:29] <SWPadnos> odd - this package list shows various kde4 things, but they're only up to 3.5 beta??
[22:57:42] <SWPadnos> 3.5RC, actually
[23:09:05] <SWPadnos> how are emc and RTAI these days regarding compilation on GCC3.x or 4?
[23:10:37] <alex_joni> seems 3.x is ok
[23:10:59] <alex_joni> seems only ;)
[23:11:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:11:33] <SWPadnos> I think I had problems before with compiling using anything later than gcc-2.95
[23:12:18] <SWPadnos> even when I would recompile the kernel + RTAI + emc, there would be symbol version mismatches (or something like that)
[23:16:07] <icee> that indicates that you weren't really building with the same compiler
[23:16:29] <alex_joni> yup
[23:16:33] <alex_joni> what icee said
[23:16:34] <SWPadnos> could be
[23:16:48] <SWPadnos> I also had some trouble with the kernel actually running for long periods of time ;)
[23:17:12] <SWPadnos> this was Gentoo, around kernel 2.6.(single digit) time
[23:17:38] <SWPadnos> and probably adeos version 3.1
[23:31:52] <anonimasu> :)
[23:34:54] <SWPadnos> KScope looks pretty cool
[23:35:47] <anonimasu> hm
[23:35:48] <anonimasu> yeha
[23:35:49] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:37:44] <Jymmm> up for auction... Test Equipment (19 pallets) - fuuuuuuuuuck me
[23:37:56] <SWPadnos> heh - what's the shipping? :)
[23:38:06] <SWPadnos> but I'll split it with you if you want
[23:38:08] <Jymmm> elbow grease
[23:38:17] <anonimasu> haha
[23:38:21] <Jymmm> you pay, you remove.
[23:39:48] <Jymmm> bunch of forklisfts of all kind for auction too (all not working of course)
[23:39:49] <jepler_> cradek: instead of the note you added to README, which I happen to know nobody actually READS, why not call os.path.abspath in setup.py?
[23:40:11] <anonimasu> jepler_: I read readmes
[23:40:22] <anonimasu> if the program wont compile and work on the first 7 tries ;)
[23:40:24] <jepler_> cradek: which I happen to know nobody but anonimasu actually READS
[23:40:36] <anonimasu> *grins*
[23:40:36] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, on ebay, or elsewhere?
[23:40:53] <alex_joni> jepler_: I do read the README
[23:40:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: elsewhere (must be a US Citizen)
[23:40:59] <alex_joni> * alex_joni grins too
[23:41:10] <SWPadnos> I am (if you count Vermont)
[23:41:19] <SWPadnos> MIL surplus?
[23:41:43] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Cool, need at least 24 hr advanced notice prior to viewing (bkgrnd chk)
[23:41:56] <SWPadnos> eh - I've got clearance
[23:42:02] <SWPadnos> shouldn't be a problem
[23:42:07] <SWPadnos> (I've had clearance, that is)
[23:42:12] <anonimasu> how complete is kscope
[23:42:13] <anonimasu> ?
[23:42:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos heh, that was then, you're a commie now!
[23:42:23] <alex_joni> kscope?
[23:42:34] <alex_joni> what's that?
[23:42:42] <SWPadnos> good question - it looks like they're up to stable release 1.2, so it should be functional
[23:42:51] <SWPadnos> http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=9910&PHPSESSID=5dd4dff1deb148a2570bf15584456993.
[23:42:57] <SWPadnos> hopefully that will work
[23:43:07] <SWPadnos> no - wait, it's a session ID
[23:43:16] <SWPadnos> anyway - search there for KScope
[23:43:26] <alex_joni> nice
[23:43:39] <SWPadnos> yeah, and it even has graphviz integration :)
[23:43:40] <alex_joni> it is working.. even with the PHPSESSID
[23:43:45] <SWPadnos> cool
[23:43:50] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: I am going to try it.. tomorrow
[23:44:09] <Jymmm> oh screw that... thought it was a digital o'scope - bastards!
[23:44:20] <SWPadnos> heh - it is, just for C code :)
[23:44:22] <alex_joni> look at halscope :P
[23:44:43] <Jymmm> alex_joni works thru sound card?
[23:44:54] <alex_joni> might just
[23:45:02] <alex_joni> that's a good idea
[23:45:13] <alex_joni> it's not hard to access the ADC on the soundcard
[23:45:17] <SWPadnos> just write a HAL driver for your soundcard, and voila, a slow, inaccurate PC scope
[23:45:18] <alex_joni> write a HAL driver for it..
[23:49:08] <SWPadnos> does anyone know where the kate syntax hilight files reside?
[23:49:48] <SWPadnos> ah - nm (/usr/share/apps/katepart/syntax/)
[23:52:39] <djb_rh> http://gallery.donniebarnes.com/cnc-mill
[23:52:39] <djb_rh> woot
[23:52:42] <djb_rh> got it moved today
[23:52:57] <djb_rh> now I just have to figure out the best way to EMC-ify it
[23:53:04] <djb_rh> it's got DC servos
[23:53:28] <djb_rh> crap, time to go
[23:53:29] <SWPadnos> and servo amps, it would appear
[23:57:03] <Jymmm> Eeeesh... just got my bits today
[23:57:33] <Jymmm> ordered them on the 27th. Guess I can't expect faster for $1 shipping