#emc | Logs for 2005-10-17

[00:09:21] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as kats
[00:10:36] <kats> kats is now known as Jacky^
[00:14:22] <jepler> cradek: I haven't looked at the changes you made, but I think your criticism about the brake button was valid. It was just the easiest thing to do to shorten the screen by a row..
[00:22:41] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as K4ts
[00:23:35] <K4ts> K4ts is now known as Jacky^
[00:24:36] <Jacky^> cosimo
[00:24:43] <Jacky^> non riesce a configurare ..
[00:28:04] <anonimasu> hm the rutec AC drives will run the sanyo servos..
[00:28:30] <anonimasu> I am buying 2 1kw ones
[00:28:38] <anonimasu> and a few smaller.
[00:34:20] <k4ts> jacky sera
[00:34:24] <k4ts> molto scorretto
[00:35:08] <Jacky^> anonimasu: the ac motor $39 each weve seen.. ??
[00:35:24] <Jacky^> found the driver ?
[00:35:26] <anonimasu> yeah
[00:35:29] <Jacky^> good
[00:35:33] <anonimasu> the rutec ac drives will move it..
[00:35:36] <anonimasu> rutex..
[00:35:44] <Jacky^> price ?
[00:35:51] <anonimasu> of the drives?
[00:35:55] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:36:06] <k4ts> jacky kicked me because?
[00:36:31] <Jacky^> k4ts: because i closed the room
[00:36:47] <k4ts> no closed kicked!
[00:36:59] <Jacky^> same thing :)
[00:37:21] <anonimasu> 228$
[00:37:36] <anonimasu> err 198$
[00:37:44] <anonimasu> per drive..
[00:37:46] <Jacky^> anonimasu: good, i was thinking much more..
[00:37:49] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:37:54] <anonimasu> you need a motherboard also.
[00:38:04] <Jacky^> oh ..
[00:38:12] <anonimasu> 198*3 for a 3 axis machine
[00:38:42] <Jacky^> anyway, assuming the price of a simple driver 20A for dc motor
[00:38:44] <anonimasu> +50 +17*3
[00:38:49] <Jacky^> seem to be a good price
[00:38:58] <anonimasu> the motor price compensates for it nicely
[00:39:02] <anonimasu> but I dont know about rutex.
[00:39:18] <anonimasu> I am buying motors though..
[00:39:32] <anonimasu> if I could just get thoose 1kw motors ;)
[00:39:37] <Jacky^> wow
[00:39:43] <anonimasu> I am thinking about the 400w ones..
[00:39:46] <anonimasu> they are more shippable..
[00:40:07] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:40:07] <anonimasu> buying 4 of them..
[00:40:14] <anonimasu> or 6
[00:40:21] <Jacky^> probably half weight ..
[00:40:33] <anonimasu> it's < 400eur..
[00:40:34] <anonimasu> ;)
[00:40:41] <anonimasu> but the shipping gets ugly
[00:40:47] <anonimasu> but.. cheap servos..
[00:41:09] <Jacky^> mmh yeah
[00:41:20] <anonimasu> I want the 1kw ones.
[00:41:21] <anonimasu> damn
[00:41:31] <anonimasu> they'd push my small machine along nicely
[00:41:33] <Jacky^> btw good choice, i like it
[00:42:45] <k4ts> rispondi al pvt
[00:44:02] <anonimasu> but the 400watt ones are more reasonable
[00:45:06] <Jacky^> they should be enough, i agree
[00:45:30] <anonimasu> but 1kw..
[00:45:45] <anonimasu> you could easily build a machine capable of HSM with thoose..
[00:45:46] <anonimasu> ;)
[00:45:51] <Jacky^> i know..
[00:46:26] <Jacky^> i'm going to pay aboy $67 for shipping 3 geckodrive ..
[00:46:41] <Jacky^> and i dont know how much weight
[00:46:48] <Jacky^> but i think light ..
[00:47:59] <anonimasu> 400g or something..
[00:48:01] <anonimasu> I cant remember
[00:49:13] <anonimasu> we I'll check about it tomorrow
[00:49:18] <anonimasu> about servos..
[00:52:13] <anonimasu> night all
[00:52:36] <Jacky^> night anon
[00:52:45] <Jymmm> g'night Jacky^
[00:54:29] <Jacky^> Jymmm: not yet for me ..
[00:54:32] <Jacky^> :/
[00:54:41] <Jymmm> oh. g'night anonimasu
[00:54:44] <Jacky^> :)
[01:48:37] <Jacky^> G night all
[01:49:07] <Jacky^> this time i'm really going :P
[01:49:20] <k4ts> helo
[01:49:23] <k4ts> hello
[01:49:30] <Jacky^> night
[01:52:28] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (15 files in 12 dirs): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Mon Oct 17 01:15:01 BST 2005 "
[04:35:45] <K`zan> Anyone know if the enable signal off the parallel port is active low ?
[04:41:46] <fenn> k'zan have you looked at the integrator's handbook?
[04:42:09] <K`zan> Integrator's handbook ?!?
[04:42:28] <fenn> you'll probably find it useful
[04:42:48] <fenn> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/emc/emc-docs-1.0.0.pdf.tgz?download
[04:42:56] <K`zan> Electronics side is done, just got to finish up the software: http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/CNC/adriver1.pdf
[04:45:18] <K`zan> Got it / 'em, thanks fenn !
[04:47:26] <fenn> are you talking about estop?
[04:47:33] <K`zan> Me ?
[04:47:46] <fenn> yeah
[04:48:01] <K`zan> No, was talking about the enable signal out of the parallel port.
[04:48:22] <fenn> oh, this isn't emc you're using, right?
[04:48:31] <fenn> some custom code?
[04:48:41] <K`zan> So I think anyway, much ignorance still here :-).
[04:48:52] <K`zan> Do plan on using EMC...
[04:50:25] <K`zan> Hummm, accordingto that there is no enable signal...
[04:50:40] <K`zan> Live no matter what <shudder>
[04:51:33] <K`zan> cradek: Where does that "Enable" signal on the 297 boards come from ? (shamelessly stolen from that :-).
[04:51:55] <cradek> on my system it comes from a parport pin
[04:52:22] <cradek> the cradek_stable branch of emc1 supports step/dir and digital IO on the same parport.
[04:52:25] <K`zan> Looking on page 34 of the integrator's manual and there is no enable signal...
[04:52:28] <fenn> wow cradek are you just always sitting next to your irc box?
[04:52:53] <cradek> fenn: not always, but often while at work, and sometimes while at home
[04:53:35] <cradek> K`zan: tradidtionally step/dir came from one parport and digital IO (switches, enable, spindle) from a second parport
[04:53:44] <K`zan> Maaybe that is the Estop signal on the second parallel port.
[04:54:05] <cradek> probably
[04:54:08] <K`zan> OK, so I need to get on of those ordered, the break out box gets more interesting :).
[04:54:10] <cradek> yes, I did use estop as enable
[04:54:47] <cradek> if you use the cradek_stable branch and you need only a few digital IO pins (I use two) you can get by with one parport.
[04:54:54] <K`zan> Ok, glad I didn't already etch the breakout box :-), but I suppose I can just do two of them
[04:55:21] <cradek> but you're not using emc1 are you
[04:55:22] <cradek> hmm
[04:55:31] <cradek> I don't know the status of any of the other trees in this regard.
[04:55:38] <K`zan> Whatever is on the Live CD or the BDI.
[04:55:58] <cradek> the live CD is emc1
[04:56:03] <K`zan> I can fake it locally, not like it is a big problem now that I think about it.
[04:56:08] <cradek> BDI4 is a "special" version that's neither emc1 or emc2
[04:56:41] <K`zan> Just need to find one of the big slammer switches :-).
[04:56:52] <Jymmm> big slammer switches ?
[04:56:55] <K`zan> I have the bdi-4.30.iso here.
[04:57:04] <cradek> yeah, you can't run emc1 on that.
[04:57:22] <K`zan> a switch with a 3 or 4"(?) red disk on it you hit if things go wrong.
[04:57:34] <K`zan> 4.30 is emc2 ?
[04:57:51] <Jymmm> K`zan: I have 3 buttons for that
[04:57:53] <cradek> no, it's an unholy union of emc1 and emc2.
[04:58:03] <K`zan> still an iso, haven't burned it yet. Not enthralled with RH, but I'll get over it :).
[04:58:24] <cradek> it's not redhat, it's more like debian
[04:58:37] <cradek> but, for some reason, it uses the redhat installer to install
[04:58:43] <K`zan> I figured that I would install it once I got the driver worked out, not a lot of sense otherwise.
[04:58:59] <K`zan> That cheers me up :-) debian prefered over RH :-).
[04:59:35] <fenn> hi chatchai.. haven't seen you on irc yet
[04:59:41] <K`zan> damn stk200 doesn't work under winditz / avrstudio :-(.
[04:59:56] <chatchai> Hi, it is my first time
[05:00:02] <K`zan> Works fine under avrdude under linux but not wincrap.
[05:00:25] <chatchai> Hi all, I am Chatchai, from Thailand
[05:00:28] <K`zan> Never a dull moment :-).
[05:00:33] <cradek> hello
[05:00:40] <K`zan> Welcome chatchai !
[05:02:19] <K`zan> Jymmm: 3 buttons ?!?
[05:02:29] <Jymmm> K`zan: Yep
[05:02:35] <K`zan> for estop ?!?
[05:02:41] <Jymmm> yes
[05:02:41] <K`zan> * K`zan confuzed
[05:02:51] <K`zan> why 3? One per axis ?
[05:03:14] <K`zan> One should kill all active axis, one would thing ?!?
[05:03:14] <Jymmm> two at the machine, one at the controller
[05:03:25] <K`zan> Ah, gotcha, makes sense.
[05:03:57] <Jymmm> it's EMERGENCY STOP button, not a oh shit button.
[05:04:04] <Jymmm> imho
[05:04:09] <K`zan> There is a difference :-) ?
[05:04:16] <fenn> all slammer switches must be CNC engraved with "DON'T PANIC"
[05:04:18] <Jymmm> should be able to hit it with hip if you had to
[05:04:38] <K`zan> Yep the ones on the old moogs were.
[05:04:53] <Jymmm> these are arcade buttons
[05:04:54] <K`zan> LOL
[05:05:00] <Jymmm> uses microswitches
[05:05:06] <Jymmm> pretty abuse proof
[05:05:29] <fenn> does the motor current go through the switch?
[05:05:37] <K`zan> Need to order a bunch of those, IIRC it was Futurelec that has real good prices on them.
[05:05:48] <Jymmm> fenn no, via relay
[05:06:09] <fenn> just so you know, we had a buggy relay in the mazak that wouldn't turn off when you hit the estop button
[05:06:18] <Jymmm> DPDT relay wired in a interlocking way
[05:06:18] <fenn> makes things exciting when the machine is going haywire
[05:06:49] <Jymmm> fenn: These are wired in a fail safe method.
[05:07:01] <fenn> how?
[05:07:03] <Jymmm> ESTOP == power off
[05:07:17] <Jymmm> if anyhting dosconnects, it all stops
[05:07:34] <fenn> even if the relay contacts get welded together?
[05:08:12] <Jymmm> that's a rarity, but nothing a double setup couldn't resolve
[05:08:30] <fenn> right
[05:08:35] <Jymmm> and how are contact being welded together?
[05:08:54] <fenn> well, actually what happened was the contactor just got sticky
[05:08:55] <Jymmm> you shouldn't be running that much current thru them, use a contactor
[05:09:19] <fenn> what's the diff between a contactor and a relay?
[05:09:30] <Jymmm> amperage =)
[05:09:53] <Jymmm> HVAC == contactor
[05:11:03] <Jymmm> or using 110 for logic, and 220/440 for power easily
[05:12:14] <Jymmm> but, I suppose that's something else I should account for which I havne't yet.
[05:14:26] <K`zan> Oy, I am so screwed: http://www.govliquidation.com/locations/index.html
[05:16:23] <fenn> cool there's one like 20 miles from me
[05:19:47] <fenn> so.. they are actually selling that stuff for the price listed? it's not an auction?
[05:20:02] <fenn> * fenn wonders if the $50 milling machine is worth getting..
[05:22:16] <K`zan> Yes, it is an auction from what I gather.
[05:22:32] <K`zan> None real close here, but I could make an exception :).
[05:23:47] <fenn> sigh.. why do people leave machine tools out in the rain?
[05:23:59] <fenn> how much does a tarp cost, really?
[05:25:15] <K`zan> Never figured that one out myself.
[05:25:31] <fenn> hmm.. 11,000 lbs is a bit much for me, so much for that idea
[05:40:58] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk_sleeping
[06:17:35] <chatchai> Hi, I would like to introduce my 3 axis milling http://eestud.kku.ac.th/~u4316562/cnc/
[06:18:10] <chatchai> It is a servo base (motenc card) and emc2 system
[06:24:05] <fenn> looks pretty expensive.. what do you do with it?
[06:25:15] <chatchai> Umm , it is an old machine
[06:25:29] <chatchai> It is my research
[06:25:34] <fenn> yes but the electronics are the expensive part, right?
[06:26:31] <chatchai> Electronic part is responsibility of my costomer
[06:27:08] <chatchai> But a pc base cnc controller is my goal of researching
[06:27:55] <chatchai> it is a experiment, yes, it expensive
[06:28:23] <K`zan> Heh, doing the same here on a considerably slimmer budget :-).
[06:28:59] <chatchai> :(
[06:31:20] <chatchai> It cost ... 4000 $
[06:31:48] <Jymmm> that looks like a showroom
[06:32:16] <chatchai> Again!! it is a large machine, so I need a servo system
[06:33:22] <chatchai> No show room , it is an exhibition. Just demostrate a pc base cnc controller
[06:33:33] <Jymmm> ah
[06:35:00] <chatchai> My country (Thailand) very lack a knowlege of linux and realtime os
[06:35:52] <chatchai> I try to study for one year
[06:39:31] <chatchai> Like a pioneer
[06:40:16] <chatchai> May be a first person in Thailand trying emc base cnc controller
[07:51:20] <K`zan> A?.,mnbvcxz/74832-+
[08:15:09] <ValarQ> ?
[08:15:34] <K`zan> :-) kitten on the keys :).
[08:15:43] <ValarQ> oh :)
[08:16:44] <ValarQ> the only monster i got that is capable of walking on the keyboard isn't heavy enough for the keys to be pressed down
[08:23:05] <K`zan> :-)
[08:28:00] <K`zan> Night folks!
[08:34:34] <alex_joni> morning
[08:34:46] <ValarQ> mornin
[08:35:04] <alex_joni> damn I hate mornings..
[08:35:20] <ValarQ> oh, they are not so bad
[08:35:28] <alex_joni> oh yes they are
[08:35:30] <alex_joni> :D
[08:36:03] <ValarQ> * ValarQ sings: oh what a beautiful morning, oh what a beautiful day!
[08:36:23] <alex_joni> yeah.. but after 12
[08:36:39] <ValarQ> hmm :/
[08:37:16] <ValarQ> well, it's not that all great i suppose
[08:37:43] <alex_joni> how come?
[08:37:46] <ValarQ> but i have almost got rid of the cold i catched a couple of days ago
[08:38:21] <ValarQ> good enough to sneeze in school to day i believe
[08:38:28] <ValarQ> s/to day/today/
[08:39:09] <ValarQ> * ValarQ continues to sing
[08:41:44] <alex_joni> when I wake up.. in the morning light
[08:41:52] <alex_joni> I put my jeans on, and I'd be alright..
[08:41:53] <alex_joni> :D
[08:42:43] <ValarQ> oh, youre a composer :)
[08:42:53] <alex_joni> nah.. that's a song
[08:43:03] <ValarQ> ok, never heard it
[08:43:49] <ValarQ> s/heard/listened to/
[08:44:40] <alex_joni> When I wake up in the mornin' light
[08:44:41] <alex_joni> I pull on my jeans and I feel all right
[08:44:41] <alex_joni> I pull my blue jeans on, I pull my old blue jeans on
[08:44:41] <alex_joni> I pull my blue jeans on, I pull my old blue jeans on
[08:45:25] <alex_joni> http://www.hit-country-music-lyrics.com/keith-urban-lyrics-country.html
[08:45:27] <alex_joni> nr. 6
[08:54:58] <ValarQ> country music, hmm
[08:55:22] <alex_joni> dunno.. it was in the back of my head somewhere :D
[08:56:28] <ValarQ> i only got machinecode instructions there...
[08:58:43] <ValarQ> * ValarQ disappears
[08:58:45] <alex_joni> heh..
[08:58:51] <alex_joni> later
[11:59:39] <fenn> ye gods! it's EMC!
[12:02:16] <alex_joni> what is?
[12:02:26] <fenn> * fenn points at EMC
[12:02:40] <alex_joni> wot's wrong?
[12:02:47] <fenn> uh, nothing.
[12:02:58] <alex_joni> wot's right?
[12:03:25] <fenn> ditto
[12:03:36] <alex_joni> then?
[12:03:40] <fenn> * fenn isn't a nihilist
[12:04:13] <alex_joni> too much for me :D
[12:04:15] <fenn> finally got my (not new anymore) lathe running
[12:04:42] <EMC> congratulations
[12:04:55] <fenn> ah! it's talking at me!
[12:05:14] <alex_joni> oh.. that EMC ?
[12:05:17] <alex_joni> ROFL
[12:05:19] <EMC> oops. just joined and messed up the nickname.
[12:05:27] <alex_joni> no problem ;)
[12:05:32] <alex_joni> fenn: nice
[12:05:50] <fenn> you know you've been spending too much time coding when your projects start talking to you :)
[12:06:12] <EMC> that's what's called feedback
[12:08:33] <EMC> still emc?
[12:08:39] <EMC> yep
[12:08:40] <fenn> try "/nick gedp"
[12:08:49] <EMC> EMC is now known as gedp
[12:08:58] <gedp> Yep
[12:09:01] <gedp> Thanks
[12:09:17] <alex_joni> fenn: right
[12:09:21] <alex_joni> hello gedp
[12:09:59] <gedp> hello. just poking around after seeing the irc channel on the mailing list
[12:11:55] <alex_joni> oh.. I see, you're most welcomed
[12:12:18] <alex_joni> if you've got questions or any other stuff, go right ahead
[12:13:33] <gedp> thanks. donwloaded the latest bdi last week and planning to install it this week. Have been running on
[12:15:11] <gedp> a laptop the last 2 years, but was never able to get rid of lost steps. Tried approx anything I could think of
[12:15:11] <gedp> concerning hardware and filters and will now try with a normal pc (2.8Ghz). One question: should the cpu be put in hypertreading mode or rather not?
[12:15:34] <alex_joni> not sure it will make a difference
[12:15:51] <alex_joni> the RT part certainly might not take advantage of it,
[12:16:08] <fenn> what's hyperthreading mode?
[12:16:10] <alex_joni> not sure if it will do any damage otoh, but you're advised too try
[12:16:17] <alex_joni> and maybe report back :P
[12:16:21] <gedp> probably not, but maybe it could help when there are other unix processes around
[12:16:22] <alex_joni> fenn: 2 logic processors
[12:16:37] <alex_joni> to keep the answer short
[12:16:39] <alex_joni> :)
[12:16:40] <gedp> hypertreading is simulating 2 processors by 1 processor
[12:17:12] <gedp> I'll give it a try and hope to get rid of the lost steps.....
[13:35:26] <alex_joni> hey paul
[13:48:58] <cradek> gedp: I also had trouble with an older laptop. EMC would glitch every time the fan turned on or off. I would also sometimes get "missed realtime deadline" from EMC when this happened. No BIOS settings would fix it. I had no problems when I moved the same software to a desktop machine with all the APM stuff turned off.
[13:54:44] <cradek> gedp: I doubt the kernel on BDI is built with SMP support so whether or not you have HT enabled probably makes no difference.
[14:22:02] <jepler> I don't know what thread-to-thread latency is, but running one CPU in realtime and one in linux would seem like a way to get an extremely low latency realtime.
[14:38:43] <gedp> cradek:Thanks for the remarks. I also read somewhere that certain laptops don't give out a signal strong enough. Have to admit I've never measured it now I come to think of it.
[14:59:44] <Richo> Hi eveyone :)
[15:00:01] <Richo> Are there any developers here?
[15:05:18] <gedp> Hi. just lurking.
[15:06:33] <Richo> Hey gedp, i think that we're the only people actually here...
[15:06:53] <Richo> u a user or developer?
[15:08:27] <gedp> User.
[15:14:55] <cradek> I'm a developer
[15:16:47] <Richo> cool, yeah i think i've seen your same in some of the documentation cradek...
[15:17:28] <Richo> looks like i've missed the weekly meeting for developers though... hoping to do some work on the HAL...
[15:17:36] <Richo> which area r u involved with>
[15:17:37] <Richo> ?
[15:18:01] <cradek> I have done mostly GUI and bugfixes in emc1
[15:18:11] <cradek> I have done very little in emc2, since I use emc1 on my machine.
[15:18:31] <cradek> what kind of hardware do you want to add support for?
[15:18:34] <Richo> oh ok, so you've connected up to some servos on your machine then?
[15:18:48] <Richo> using the parallel port to drive steppers or some other method?
[15:18:49] <cradek> I have steppers, but yes I use emc to run it
[15:18:59] <cradek> yes, parallel port
[15:20:01] <Richo> fair enough... I'm hoping to hook my system up to some servos that sit on a bus system... hoping that the HAL in V2 makes this job a bit simpler...
[15:20:26] <Richo> I'm curious, how long has the project been in development for?
[15:20:45] <cradek> over 10 years I think
[15:20:48] <cradek> I'm relatively new
[15:21:48] <les> morning all
[15:21:52] <cradek> the HAL drivers seem pretty clean. I had a look at the STG driver. What kind of bus?
[15:21:56] <cradek> hey les
[15:22:00] <Richo> monring :)
[15:22:05] <Richo> RS485 bus...
[15:22:11] <les> morning richo
[15:22:26] <Richo> i'm hoping to make it fairly scalable, so you can add or remove axis...
[15:22:40] <les> want to run servos huh
[15:23:22] <Richo> yep, hoping to run some RS485-based servos... i think i can do it using the HAL, and i'm keen to give it a try at least...
[15:23:35] <Richo> are you also running steppers les?
[15:23:55] <Richo> the usual way of interfacing seems to be with parallel port driving steppers...
[15:23:56] <les> I run servos with the STG card. I'm a commercial user
[15:24:16] <Richo> oh ok... u using it in a factory environment?
[15:24:23] <les> yes
[15:24:44] <les> I must run emc1, because emc2 is experimental
[15:24:45] <cradek> how do you program the RS485 interface?
[15:24:55] <les> we don't get to experiment much right now
[15:26:02] <Richo> I'm just connecting an RS232->RS485 converter to the PCs serial port and communicating that way... the servos talk modbus...
[15:26:28] <Richo> hehe, yep i can understand that :)
[15:26:32] <cradek> that sounds challenging
[15:26:43] <cradek> you won't be able to use the kernel's serial driver since it's not realtime.
[15:27:02] <cradek> maybe you will have to program the uart yourself. (ugh)
[15:27:03] <Richo> I'm considering going with EMC1 also, since i'll possibly be putting this into a factory soon also...
[15:28:02] <les> EMC1 is very stable...rock solid I would say
[15:28:10] <Richo> hmm, maybe... when you say it's not realtime, does that mean that I can't use it at all from a kernel module or just that I won't get realtime response?
[15:28:42] <Richo> i'm not that keen to program a serial driver by register, though i suppose I can do it if I have to :)
[15:30:25] <Richo> it looks like it might be difficult to interface a different driver type to EMC1... looks like it's hard coded to use the parallel port or the STG card..
[15:30:26] <les> Richo, emc closes the position and other loops in the host....do your drives do that?
[15:32:20] <Richo> yes, that's the part that I ahven't figured out yet... my drives have PID control built in, and I like the idea of distributing that part of the work to the servo amp... I'm hoping that I can just get the requested position somehow and tell the servo to go there at the given velocity...
[15:32:36] <les> right
[15:32:43] <Richo> not sure if that part's possible though...
[15:33:20] <les> It might not be easy since emc is specifically set up to do that in the host in a rea;ltime thread
[15:33:29] <Richo> les, you said that you're a commercial user... is there a licencing scheme or is it just a matter of making all source code developed publicly available?
[15:33:50] <les> well the original code is public domain
[15:34:01] <les> some added bits are gpl
[15:34:05] <Richo> hmm.... i have to trawl through the code some more i think...
[15:34:29] <les> be prepared for a serious brain ache
[15:34:43] <les> ;)
[15:34:49] <Richo> yep, i've been prepared for that one :)
[15:36:11] <Richo> when you say that it's specifically set up to do that in a realtime thread, i've seen indications that EMC2 has moved away from that...
[15:36:11] <les> I would imagine emc2 is much better structured
[15:36:23] <les> we just can't mess with it right now
[15:36:24] <Richo> there's a specific PID component in the HAL...
[15:36:27] <Jacky^> hi les :))
[15:36:37] <les> hi jacky
[15:36:45] <Richo> ahh ok, yep i do like the look of EMC2 in that respect :)
[15:36:51] <Richo> hi jacky
[15:36:56] <Jacky^> hi Richo
[15:36:59] <les> Well, whatever does thr pidff....has to be hard real time
[15:37:08] <Richo> definitely...
[15:37:21] <Richo> time for that brain ache then...
[15:37:25] <les> heh
[15:37:29] <les> ok
[15:37:33] <Richo> so where's eveyone based on this project?
[15:37:47] <les> I have to get off and reboot...cam system is acting up here
[15:38:01] <les> georgia, usa here
[15:38:12] <Richo> I joined the mailing list and it looks like there's a couple of people from Oz...
[15:38:19] <Richo> ok, great...
[15:38:32] <les> yeah peter is from oz
[15:38:35] <cradek> Lincoln NE USA
[15:39:21] <Richo> Oz & US then... and i gather Joni is from Europe based on when he's replied to emails...
[15:39:37] <cradek> I think he's in Romania
[15:39:39] <les> yes lots from europe
[15:39:47] <cradek> we have some in UK
[15:40:26] <Richo> cool ok, well i look forward to doing some development then... this might be the wrong time to ask, but what's the schedule like on EMC2?
[15:40:47] <Richo> looks like it's KINd OF working...
[15:40:50] <cradek> there's really no schedule.
[15:41:04] <cradek> it works for steppers, maybe servos or maybe not (stg driver in development)
[15:41:08] <Richo> it compiles and runs, but there's quite a few bugs...
[15:41:17] <cradek> not sure what the status of digital IO is
[15:41:53] <Richo> yep, I have a look at that... looks like the IO is hard coded for certain bits to correspond to the ccooling fluid on etc...
[15:42:26] <cradek> you should check later when alex_joni gets up
[15:42:48] <Richo> I'm planning to turn on welding torches, so i'll have to have a look at it...
[15:42:55] <Richo> sounds good...
[15:43:13] <les> back later...rebooting
[15:43:34] <Richo> k, cya...
[15:44:21] <cradek> Richo: emc1 has motion-synchronized IO - I'm not sure if emc2 has that or if it's planned yet.
[15:56:48] <Richo> ok... so the M codes are synchronized with the G codes?
[15:57:10] <Richo> Does EMC1 support all the available G codes?
[15:57:12] <cradek> no, they're not
[15:57:42] <Richo> sorry, i've been caught out as a programmer :)
[15:57:43] <cradek> err, maybe some are, M62 and M63 are
[15:58:02] <cradek> EMC1 does support the G codes as defined in the rs274ngc spec
[15:58:03] <Richo> what do you mean by synchronized IO?
[15:58:28] <Richo> ok, cool..
[15:58:34] <cradek> you can turn a digital IO pin on or off exactly synchronized with the motion
[15:58:45] <cradek> (in realtime)
[15:58:58] <cradek> the usual IO control (coolant, spindle, etc) is nonrealtime
[15:59:53] <Richo> ok... i'm not sure if that's crucial for my application at the moment... thanks for the info though anyway...
[16:00:10] <cradek> for laser or something it is crucial (I think that's why it was put in)
[16:00:18] <Richo> oh ok...
[16:02:39] <rayh> Hey Richo. Did you get an email from me yesterday regarding SourceForge?
[16:03:15] <Richo> no i didn't actually... i was having trouble with my email though... i may get it tomorrow when i get into work...
[16:03:24] <rayh> I'm on the road and am not certain that my mail writer got through.
[16:03:34] <Richo> ok, no worries :)
[16:03:43] <rayh> I added you as a developer so you are good to go.
[16:03:58] <Richo> i'm sure it'll come through eventually... great, thanks for that...
[16:04:22] <rayh> My pleasure.
[16:04:24] <Richo> i've just been quizing everyone on the inner workings of EMC actually...
[16:04:32] <Richo> i have some thinking to do :)
[16:05:36] <Richo> Hey Ray, which area of the EMC2 ccode are you involved with?
[16:06:27] <rayh> Code? I don't do no stinking code!<g>
[16:06:40] <rayh> I'm a newbe when it comes to code.
[16:07:00] <Richo> haha :)
[16:07:04] <rayh> BTW I added you as richo cause richmoqd didn't return anything.
[16:07:23] <Richo> i thought you must have been a guru... being an admin on the project..
[16:07:43] <Richo> ok, you mean for my sourceforge name?
[16:07:50] <rayh> right.
[16:07:59] <Richo> i think my login was richmogd, but user was richo...
[16:08:02] <jmk_sleeping> jmk_sleeping is now known as jmkasunich
[16:08:13] <rayh> I can change it.
[16:08:18] <Richo> sorry, first time on sourceforge actually...
[16:08:30] <Richo> no, that's fine... as long as it works :)
[16:08:47] <rayh> I've written some gui stuff but am very limited with C
[16:09:12] <rayh> Some folk describe me as a pita, others as the resident loudmouth.
[16:09:25] <cradek> rayh: that's only when you're listening
[16:09:26] <Richo> :)
[16:09:41] <jmkasunich> ray is the EMC evangalist
[16:09:59] <rayh> Oh Okay. I'll plug my eyes so you guys can say whatever needs to be said regarding me.
[16:10:11] <jmkasunich> richo: are you the Glenn Richmond from the list?
[16:10:40] <Richo> yep... that's me...
[16:10:54] <jmkasunich> ok, then it sounds like Ray already added you to SF?
[16:10:55] <Richo> ray added me as a developer...
[16:11:17] <jmkasunich> good (I'm lazy)
[16:11:39] <Richo> yep, sorry about that... one of our emails didn't work and i didn't get his reply... i found some doccumentationthat said I should ask you, so i fired off another email...
[16:11:52] <jmkasunich> no prob, just checking
[16:12:27] <jmkasunich> ray is sitting 5ft from me, but it's hard to talk right now... there is a stamping press 20 ft the other way :(
[16:12:48] <Jacky^> jmkasunich: :))
[16:13:32] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ offer a good winr drink to jmkasunich and rayh
[16:13:37] <Jacky^> wine
[16:13:40] <Jacky^> lol
[16:13:42] <Jacky^> :)
[16:13:46] <rayh> Thanks I needed that.
[16:13:50] <Jacky^> hahah
[16:13:53] <Jacky^> :D
[16:16:55] <rayh> Richo: Want me to change your SF developer name to richmogd?
[16:18:20] <Richo> possibly.. i'm just checking the sourceforge account... in my main page it still tells me that i'm not a member of any projects... i think that it must have to be richmogd..
[16:18:25] <Richo> thanks....
[16:18:59] <Richo> richo appears to be someone caled Richard Vanek, definitely not me :)
[16:21:57] <etla> anyone know alot about stepper buzzing / setting up deadband etc ?
[16:23:38] <rayh> k I'll fix it.
[16:23:52] <cradek> etla: we all know a little about it
[16:24:41] <Richo> thanks...
[16:25:14] <etla> cradek: I've been trying to set deadband to equal one step but one of my axes still keeps buzzing
[16:26:16] <cradek> etla: it should be a little more than half a step
[16:26:25] <cradek> etla: what is your scale?
[16:26:44] <etla> scale=2032
[16:26:54] <etla> or with a minus sign to get direction right
[16:27:06] <cradek> maybe DEADBAND should be .00025
[16:27:19] <etla> strange thing is that y and z (same scale) seem to work but x buzzes...
[16:27:49] <cradek> it's common for it to buzz at some coordinates and not others
[16:28:28] <etla> yes, x1.11 thru x1.14 buzz at various frequencies but x1.10 and x1.15 are stable
[16:28:45] <cradek> yep
[16:28:54] <cradek> what's the current DEADBAND on x?
[16:29:49] <etla> I've tried 0.00025 and 0.0005 and something larger but nothing seems to get rid of the buzzing
[16:29:53] <rayh> Richo: Got you fixed. Give it a bit to find it's way into the login stuff.
[16:30:08] <Richo> cool, thanks ray...
[16:30:30] <rayh> np
[16:30:33] <cradek> etla: what are PIDFF on x?
[16:30:57] <etla> P=200, all others zero
[16:31:25] <etla> I'm using the sherline inch ini from BDI 4.30
[16:32:12] <etla> I want to work in mm but since there are strange things happening when scale is small I have to use the inch ini...
[16:33:31] <etla> what I do not understand is that Y and Z do not buzz but X does...
[16:34:17] <etla> ohh, another question, is it possible to monitor/display or plot the following error somehow ? in real-time ?
[16:34:45] <cradek> you can capture and plot it with logging in tkemc
[16:35:51] <etla> ok, the UI is changed somewhere in the ini also ?
[16:36:03] <cradek> yes
[16:36:07] <cradek> DISPLAY=tkemc
[16:38:18] <etla> hey ! my buzzing stopped. maybe a bug in 'mini' ??
[16:38:52] <cradek> seems unlikely...
[16:39:20] <etla> yes but anyhow my buzzing stopped now....
[16:39:42] <etla> how to do the logging ??
[16:40:01] <cradek> let me start it up
[16:40:40] <cradek> settings/logging
[16:40:46] <cradek> type: all following errors
[16:41:25] <cradek> start a program running
[16:41:30] <cradek> hit start in the logging window
[16:41:33] <cradek> log for a while
[16:41:35] <cradek> hit stop
[16:41:36] <cradek> hit save
[16:41:38] <cradek> hit plot
[16:42:05] <etla> plot does not do anything for me
[16:42:20] <etla> ahhh first save
[16:42:44] <cradek> I don't know why you have to press all the buttons in the right order, but you do
[16:43:28] <etla> do you know the time unit for the plot ? I get an X-axis of 72 to 73.1 when I collected 1000 samples
[16:43:47] <cradek> umm
[16:44:28] <cradek> mine go from 0 to 5
[16:44:34] <cradek> so, no
[16:44:39] <cradek> mine seem like they might be seconds
[16:44:51] <etla> hopefully I can use these plots to find the max acceleration and max velocity my freqmod is able to do
[16:45:16] <etla> that way I hope I can tune the ini so I don't get following errors but get max performance ??
[16:45:46] <cradek> I think you can calculate max velocity with only PERIOD and SCALE
[16:45:56] <cradek> you need at least two PERIODs per step
[16:46:54] <etla> hmmm so max frequency is 1/2*PERIOD
[16:47:06] <etla> and max velocity is this frequency divided by scale ?
[16:47:41] <cradek> something like that, yes
[16:51:42] <etla> do you know how max_output and min_output work ?
[16:51:50] <etla> in a stepper configuration using freqmod ?
[16:51:53] <cradek> no
[16:51:56] <jmkasunich> they don't do anything
[16:52:15] <jmkasunich> in a servo system, they limit the DAC output range
[16:52:15] <cradek> ray seems to think they do
[16:52:23] <jmkasunich> he might be right
[16:52:29] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[16:52:48] <etla> spooky,,,
[16:52:48] <jmkasunich> they may limit the frequency command to the actual step generator code
[16:52:53] <jmkasunich> that's an EMC1 thing, don't know the details
[16:53:08] <etla> ok.
[16:53:19] <cradek> etla: let us know if you find that they do something
[16:53:37] <etla> can you guys recommend any specific G-code or setup procedure for finding the max acceleration and max velocity for a stepper system
[16:54:14] <cradek> are you talking about the max emc can output, or the max you can use without your steppers stalling?
[16:54:16] <etla> sure... I played around with the mm version last week but a small scale brings so much other trouble that I'm now switching to larger scale
[16:54:24] <jmkasunich> jog back and forth, start slow and gradually increase the jog speed and/or accel until your motors start to lose steps
[16:54:31] <jmkasunich> then back off by 20% or more for margin
[16:54:39] <etla> max output from the machine
[16:55:01] <cradek> etla: like I said earlier, you calculate that
[16:55:16] <jmkasunich> max output is probably 0.5/PERIOD, but at that speed, the output is pretty ratty
[16:55:16] <cradek> jmk is right about how to tell what your steppers can do
[16:55:16] <etla> OK
[16:55:30] <cradek> I like to run my steppers slow enough that I can't (easily) stall them by grabbing the leadscrew
[16:56:12] <etla> I'd like to have around 7kHz pulse rate from the machine but that was a real problem getting to work with scale=80
[16:57:19] <etla> and I've got PERIOD=0.000022 so that should be 'easily' achievable ?
[16:57:38] <jmkasunich> yep
[16:58:00] <jmkasunich> EMC1 has issues with low scale, I dunno the details
[16:58:19] <etla> how about EMC2 is there a trial version that would be as easy as BDI to install ?
[16:58:19] <jmkasunich> but with inches, that should work fine
[16:58:28] <jmkasunich> no, unfortunately
[16:58:34] <jmkasunich> it must be compiled from source
[16:58:47] <jmkasunich> you can download and compile on a machine that has BDI installed
[16:58:55] <etla> ok, are there any other major improvements ?
[16:59:27] <etla> I'm also interested in the smoothing G61/G64
[16:59:28] <jmkasunich> it doesn't overwrite the BDI install, so it is safe to experiment with if you are willing to go thru the hoops to download it
[16:59:58] <etla> OK, I think I saw the guide in the wiki, I might try it some time
[17:00:01] <jmkasunich> things like G61/G64 are the same in 1 and 2 at this point
[17:07:21] <etla> which values take precedence, those in [TRAJ] or thos for each axis under [AXIS] ? trying to find the limits for max_velocity and max_acceleration
[17:09:13] <rayh> Ah. One that I know a bit about.
[17:09:46] <rayh> Traj is the planner and max values there control the behavior of the planner.
[17:10:37] <rayh> Individual axis values for vel and accel take priority when it comes to single axis moves
[17:11:11] <etla> can/should they be set to the same values ?
[17:11:33] <rayh> I tend to set traj a bit larger but that is a very old fashioned way of thinking.
[17:12:24] <rayh> We used to have issues with feeding following error accumulations and backlash comp pulses back into axis moves when done at rapid.
[17:12:39] <etla> any trick/algorithm/test for finding out the max_acceleration that emc and/or machine will take ?
[17:12:42] <rayh> John and I were talking this am about this problem with the step generator in emc2
[17:13:00] <rayh> servo or stepper?
[17:13:10] <etla> stepper, freqmod
[17:13:50] <rayh> ah. First test is set vel to high. So that you get following errors.
[17:14:04] <rayh> Set accel much to low so that it does not contribute.
[17:14:37] <rayh> Then jog back and forth using feedrate override until you get a vel that is doable
[17:14:53] <etla> what should happen when vel is too high ?
[17:15:06] <rayh> faults out with a following error message.
[17:15:28] <rayh> Let's assume that you have your motors turned off.
[17:15:30] <etla> ok, meaning freqmod does not keep up with the planner ?
[17:15:39] <rayh> exactly.
[17:15:48] <etla> is FERROR = 1 a good value ?
[17:16:07] <rayh> mm or inch definition for the axes?
[17:16:18] <etla> inch
[17:16:41] <rayh> Yes 1 ought to be okay. and 0.01 for Min ferror.
[17:16:56] <rayh> This creates a ramp for the following error trip point.
[17:17:21] <etla> it's in percent of the unit ?
[17:18:05] <rayh> It is related to unit but I can't say exactly what the formula is, % or what.
[17:18:47] <rayh> If traj is running faster than freqmod can, the following error will accumulate.
[17:19:11] <rayh> so short rapid moves may be okay while long ones will trip.
[17:19:38] <etla> OK.
[17:19:52] <rayh> If traj is running faster than freqmod, it will violate accel when it stops.
[17:20:14] <rayh> So a very low accel will allow you to hear, see these kinds of errors.
[17:20:29] <etla> with max velocity = 3.3 I get up to about the rapid speed I want. Now how would I go about finding the max accel value ?
[17:20:39] <rayh> As you can tell, I tune by ear/eye rather than plot.
[17:20:59] <etla> I now have accel = 2.6 so I clearly hear the ramp up, the steady velocity and the ramp down
[17:21:10] <rayh> Ah. Accel is more of a real motor/hardware problem.
[17:21:33] <rayh> inertia will cause the motor to skip pulses.
[17:21:47] <rayh> These are rather easy to hear and see.
[17:22:06] <Richo> hi john, could i ask you a few questions regarding your HAL code?
[17:22:15] <rayh> I tend to use some sort of indicator or test setup.
[17:22:29] <etla> circles ? squares ?
[17:22:30] <rayh> Richo: He's in the other building for a few minutes.
[17:22:43] <rayh> linear moves on a single axis.\
[17:22:45] <Richo> ok, no worries...
[17:23:15] <rayh> If you set accel much to high you will hear what sounds like a sawblade being raked over a chunk of steel.
[17:23:33] <etla> yeah, I know, the motor completely stalls
[17:23:55] <rayh> I'd reduce it until that sound goes away and then try an incremental move in one direction and the come back to the indicator.
[17:24:20] <rayh> Watch for any missed steps and keep reducing accel until you minimize missed steps.
[17:24:48] <etla> need to set up my digital micrometer, bolt it to the table and drive the head to it after some moves. that's how you do it ?
[17:24:55] <rayh> I said minimize because you may still miss some steps between the parport and the driver box you are using.
[17:25:12] <rayh> You can fix most of these kinds of issues with setup and hold times in the ini file.
[17:25:50] <rayh> Yep. That would do it. I'd stretch it out so that you don't hurt it during a move and then
[17:25:55] <rayh> measure
[17:26:12] <rayh> rather than asking the machine to move the scale.
[17:26:48] <etla> I'm trying moving in a square pattern in the XY plane.
[17:26:58] <rayh> Okay.
[17:27:05] <etla> there's a huge difference between G64 (smoothing on) and G61 smoothing off
[17:27:18] <etla> with G64 it resembles a circle !
[17:27:27] <rayh> Yes and accel will affect the rounding on the corners.
[17:27:33] <jmkasunich> richo: I'm back
[17:27:59] <rayh> bringing accel up will noticably affect the ability to cut a square.
[17:28:09] <Richo> great, i was just hoping to quiz you on the HAL code if you've got a few moments...
[17:28:15] <etla> I'm thinking that EMC's smoothing/HSM code is not as advanced as pro machine-controls ?
[17:28:16] <jmkasunich> sure
[17:28:36] <jmkasunich> if we're gonna get into details, lets move off channel to avoid clutter
[17:28:54] <Jymmm> (no need)
[17:29:08] <Richo> actually, before i get into too much detail,, how useable do you think EMC2 is? I really like the HAL structure, so if it's useable, i'd like to give it a try...
[17:29:14] <Richo> ok, no worries...
[17:29:31] <jmkasunich> for a stepper machine it is pretty stable
[17:30:11] <jmkasunich> main problem for casual users is that because HAL is very flexible, the config can be confusing
[17:30:29] <jmkasunich> if you are "into" the HAL concept, that shouldn't be too big of an obstacle
[17:32:04] <etla> rayh: can you answer a simple question ? with my inch ini I still want to work in mm, how do I make emc wake up in G21 mode ?
[17:32:23] <rayh> A ini entry will do it for you.
[17:33:37] <rayh> ; General section -------------------------------------------------------------
[17:33:37] <rayh> [EMC]
[17:33:52] <rayh> ; Startup codes for RS-274-NGC interpreter
[17:33:52] <rayh> RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE =G20
[17:34:51] <rayh> will get you an imp and 21 will give you mm.
[17:35:27] <rayh> brb
[17:36:20] <jepler> don't take rayh's advice. Instead, put G20 or G21 at the top of all your files, so that when you send them to others they'll still work right
[17:36:29] <jepler> no matter whether that person's mill is set up for inches or mm by default
[17:36:37] <Richo> hi john, did you get any of the messages that I sent on the private channel? I'm getting error messages saying that they were blocked...
[17:36:57] <jmkasunich> I didn't get anything, was wondering what happened
[17:37:18] <jmkasunich> how did you send them? normal command is "/msg <name> <stuff>"
[17:37:23] <Richo> hang on, there's some URL for registering... i'll see if i can sort it out...
[17:37:51] <jmkasunich> what IRC client are you using?
[17:37:58] <jmkasunich> there shouldn't be any registering needed
[17:38:25] <jmkasunich> damn, I think I might know the problem
[17:38:31] <Jymmm> /chanserv identify <password>
[17:38:33] <Richo> the server is having trouble with spam or something...
[17:38:33] <jmkasunich> your name has an upper case letter in it
[17:38:47] <cradek> you DO have to register to get privmsgs
[17:38:49] <Richo> Richo is now known as richo
[17:39:18] <etla> was there a way of homing from the limit switches ? I want to move away from the tripped switch and then zero the axis.
[17:39:21] <jmkasunich> sent a test msg, any luck?
[17:40:11] <Jymmm> jmkasunich /cs set unfiltered on (if you don't want to have to have someone identified to get pvt msg from them)
[17:40:48] <richo> i'm receiving your messages... but you're not getting mine... i'm just reading up... i have to register my nick apparently..
[17:40:57] <jmkasunich> ok
[17:41:28] <Jymmm> jmkasunich errr /ns set unfiltered on (if you don't want to have to have someone identified to get pvt msg from them)
[17:43:27] <Jymmm> [09:00:28] -NickServ- Syntax: SET UNFILTERED {ON|OFF}
[17:43:27] <Jymmm> [09:00:28] -NickServ-
[17:43:27] <Jymmm> [09:00:28] -NickServ- If UNFILTERED is ON, unregistered clients can send
[17:43:27] <Jymmm> [09:00:28] -NickServ- messages to your client. These messages are turned off
[17:43:27] <Jymmm> [09:00:28] -NickServ- by default on freenode at this time because of spambot
[17:43:28] <Jymmm> [09:00:28] -NickServ- abuse.
[17:53:21] <rayh> jepler: is correct, at least half correct. <jepler> don't take rayh's advice. Instead, put G20 or G21 at the top of all your files, so that when you send them to others they'll still work right
[17:53:30] <rayh> I'd do both.
[17:53:34] <jmkasunich> which half?
[17:54:00] <etla> famous last words: I don't intend to share G-codes with anyone anytime soon...
[17:54:11] <rayh> Us inch longs should also put a 20 up front. That way regardless of which way you are converting
[17:54:28] <rayh> It comes out in your written dimensions.
[17:54:32] <etla> anyone know a lot about the smoothing code ?
[17:54:54] <etla> seems moves are smoothed into eachother regardles off the angle between the moves
[17:55:04] <rayh> But putting the 21 in the ini will default your manual moves to mm also.
[17:55:06] <etla> crazy
[17:56:19] <etla> If I'd like to take a look at the code, where would I start ?
[17:58:46] <etla> thanks guys for all your help, good night.
[18:02:57] <Jymmm> Who was that masked man?
[18:03:16] <richo> ok, time for bed for me... night everyone...
[18:07:52] <alex_joni> evening
[18:07:56] <Jacky^> hello
[18:10:44] <Jacky^> alex_joni:
[18:10:52] <alex_joni> what?
[18:11:00] <Jacky^> how work the logger youre using ?
[18:11:10] <Jacky^> from a website ?
[18:12:06] <alex_joni> it's a perl program
[18:12:10] <alex_joni> and it saves all the data to a website
[18:12:20] <Jacky^> nice
[18:12:29] <Jacky^> i'm interesting on it ..
[18:12:40] <Jacky^> its open source ?
[18:12:41] <alex_joni> there are hundreds on google
[18:12:50] <alex_joni> yes, but I lost the link
[18:13:06] <Jacky^> ok
[18:13:18] <Jacky^> i will google
[18:13:20] <Jacky^> :)
[18:13:41] <Jacky^> thanks
[18:14:06] <Jacky^> today i submitted an order to gecko ..
[18:14:16] <Jacky^> i get 2 email replys
[18:14:25] <Jacky^> order 303-304
[18:14:36] <alex_joni> nack in a while
[18:14:38] <Jacky^> when i required only one ..
[18:14:45] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[18:14:47] <Jacky^> seem strange
[18:14:53] <Jacky^> boh
[18:14:56] <Jacky^> will se
[18:14:58] <Jacky^> :)
[18:35:58] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as megabug
[18:43:27] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[18:43:53] <steve_stallings> Ray/John - have John check his e-mail for charge pump stuff
[18:45:38] <rayh> K He asked me to get him so you guys can talk. brb
[18:47:25] <jmkasunich> Hi steve, checking emal now
[18:49:35] <jmkasunich> OK, you are using a schmidt gate as your output device
[18:50:16] <steve_stallings> Yes, and thus more voltage is needed to satisfy Vih.
[18:50:18] <jmkasunich> gotta cover range of threshold voltages cause of gate tolerances
[18:52:32] <jmkasunich> quite a tolerance range... 1.7 to 3.15V for the positive going edge with 4.5VCC
[18:53:54] <jmkasunich> did you every try a very small C5 (pump cap), like 0.01 or even 0.0047?
[18:54:04] <jmkasunich> s/every/ever
[18:55:47] <steve_stallings> Not that I recall.
[18:56:14] <jmkasunich> I guess I'll get several different values
[18:56:16] <steve_stallings> I will be in the office later and can check notes.
[18:56:28] <jmkasunich> you would have to use those teeny-weeny little SMT things
[18:56:39] <jmkasunich> what are those anyway, 0804, or 0603?
[18:56:46] <steve_stallings> What 0805 SMT is HUGE!!!
[18:57:01] <jmkasunich> I don't use anything smaller than 1206 ;-)
[18:57:07] <fenn> dunno if anyone cares, but brlcad is holding a symposium northeast of baltimore some time soon
[18:57:28] <steve_stallings> Prices on 1206 and 0805 are already rising due to industry mirgation to smaller stuff.
[18:57:44] <jmkasunich> factors other than component size dictate my board size most of the time (voltage clearances, or non-SMT part sizes)
[18:58:01] <jmkasunich> gripe, gripe, gripe ;-)
[18:58:29] <steve_stallings> Well, when you are a small business and the darned stuff is sold 3,4,5000 per reel!
[18:58:44] <jmkasunich> OK, I'm putting together a Digikey order, I'll buy 0.047, 0.022, 0.01, and 0.0047 (assuming I can buy one-zies)
[18:59:10] <Jacky^> les you around ?
[18:59:30] <jmkasunich> anyway, what size are those? 0805?
[19:03:17] <steve_stallings> DK sells in cut tape of 10 minimum, 0.047 DK p/n 490-1661-1.
[19:03:29] <jmkasunich> yeah, looking at that page now
[19:03:37] <jmkasunich> 10-zies is fine ;-)
[19:03:49] <jmkasunich> in case I drop one - never see it again
[19:04:12] <steve_stallings> Plus there is not value marking on part, so once dropped, what is it?
[19:04:28] <jmkasunich> once dropped, it is litter
[19:05:33] <steve_stallings> did you say glitter? 8-)
[19:22:53] <fenn> great. it only took me 4 hours to put in the harbor-freight order this time :P
[19:23:45] <jmkasunich> thanks for the info Steve, I think I'm all set
[19:23:59] <jmkasunich> now we see if Digkey and Fedex are gonna drop the ball
[19:25:14] <steve_stallings> .... or claim that the delivery address doesn't exist like last time....
[19:29:20] <jmkasunich> yeah
[19:34:04] <Jymmm> fenn: what did you order?
[19:34:19] <fenn> buncha air tools, a link-belt
[19:34:30] <fenn> a zillion little things that cost way less than they ought to
[19:34:36] <Jymmm> like?
[19:35:24] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[19:35:41] <fenn> Jymmm: http://fenn.freeshell.org/hf_order.txt
[19:37:45] <fenn> i'm excited about the metal cutting disks.. those things are like $5 each at the hardware store
[19:38:09] <Jymmm> cut off wheel?
[19:38:21] <fenn> yeah, 4.5 inch
[19:38:33] <Jymmm> the 4" work EXCELLENT!
[19:38:42] <fenn> people always grind on the side of them, and they wear out really quick
[19:38:45] <Jymmm> I think they're 4" hold on
[19:39:28] <Jymmm> 45432 is what I have in my hand... work great for cutting.
[19:39:48] <Jymmm> lots and lots of sparks too =)
[19:40:19] <Jymmm> mine are 40 grit, yours are 24 grit.
[19:40:32] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[19:40:38] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is fscking pissed
[19:40:39] <Jymmm> not that I know what that means
[19:40:50] <Jymmm> alex_joni ?
[19:41:00] <alex_joni> freaking hdd died on me
[19:41:06] <Jymmm> ouch
[19:41:11] <alex_joni> so instead of using my time to test the STG driver
[19:41:18] <alex_joni> I need to freaking reinstall BDI
[19:41:21] <alex_joni> I sooo hate that
[19:41:26] <alex_joni> and it's a tiny HDD
[19:41:39] <alex_joni> so I need to fscking tweak it by hand to make it fit
[19:41:40] <alex_joni> :(
[19:41:46] <Jymmm> I understand... thus why I can't always be testing every new release that comes out.
[19:42:01] <fenn> bdi isn't really easy to tweak either
[19:42:25] <fenn> prolly better to just install the minimum and use dpkg to tweak it
[19:42:29] <alex_joni> fenn: imagine I got an 1.2 GB hdd
[19:42:36] <alex_joni> that's what I am doing
[19:42:37] <fenn> aw 1.2 isn't so bad
[19:42:38] <alex_joni> :/
[19:42:46] <alex_joni> yeah.. but still, the BDI doesn't fit
[19:42:59] <alex_joni> cause I need the kernel source too
[19:43:01] <alex_joni> for devel
[19:43:15] <fenn> somethings borked there
[19:43:42] <fenn> kernel source is only like 100MB
[19:43:45] <alex_joni> yup.. KDE is
[19:43:55] <fenn> ah
[19:44:16] <fenn> most of kde never gets used anyway
[19:44:44] <alex_joni> I know
[19:45:04] <fenn> so if you apt-get kde, it wont install all the crap you will never use
[19:45:37] <alex_joni> heh.. I try to apt-get as I need stuff
[19:45:43] <alex_joni> so starting with 300MB of software
[19:45:47] <alex_joni> now getting devel tools
[19:45:50] <jmkasunich> alex: get a bigger disk
[19:45:52] <alex_joni> cvs, ncurse, tk
[19:45:55] <fenn> apt-get kdeutils
[19:46:00] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: no spare around :/
[19:46:01] <jmkasunich> (oops, sounds like a viagra spam)
[19:46:08] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: lol
[19:46:14] <jmkasunich> I have some 4.3G ones
[19:46:24] <alex_joni> seen my mail to the list?
[19:46:30] <jmkasunich> of course shipping to you probly costs more than a new disk
[19:46:33] <fenn> hmm actually forget kdeutils
[19:46:36] <alex_joni> about the stuff we talked about a while ago
[19:46:38] <jmkasunich> about HAL driver arch
[19:46:40] <jmkasunich> yeah
[19:46:50] <jmkasunich> too busy to reply in detail, agreed in general
[19:47:18] <alex_joni> ok
[19:47:33] <alex_joni> someone suggested I should start a wiki page for the details
[19:47:36] <alex_joni> but I disagree
[19:47:50] <rayh> ?
[19:48:36] <alex_joni> rayh: no offence, but I'd like to have only developers comment on this one
[19:48:55] <alex_joni> so if someone wants to modify / rant on it, they should bother to do CVS
[19:50:13] <alex_joni> anyway.. the HDD seems to be working now..
[19:50:18] <alex_joni> no idea what was wrong with it
[19:50:34] <alex_joni> kernel just panic'ed..
[19:50:44] <rayh> Oh okay.
[19:51:06] <fenn> dust puppies
[19:51:16] <alex_joni> dust puppies?
[19:52:09] <fenn> dust puppies increase bogon flux into semiconducting devices
[19:52:47] <fenn> hence, your sporadic hdd failure
[19:53:33] <alex_joni> these : http://dogs.about.com/b/a/111797.htm ?
[19:56:22] <alex_joni> now I'm glad there is cvs
[19:56:35] <alex_joni> and that I commit all my work ;)
[19:57:13] <fenn> let this be a lesson to all of you
[19:57:20] <alex_joni> how so?
[19:57:40] <fenn> back that ass up
[19:57:46] <fenn> :P
[19:58:08] <alex_joni> well.. this one's a shitty 'puter, doesn't deserve to get backed up
[19:58:20] <alex_joni> it's gotta earn that right..
[20:06:38] <alex_joni> darn.. and I soo wanted to test an encoder
[20:06:40] <alex_joni> :/
[20:06:49] <alex_joni> now I'm stuck at getting a functional emc2
[20:07:03] <fenn> died again?
[20:07:14] <alex_joni> nah.. still installing / configuring
[20:07:21] <alex_joni> getting emc2 out of CVS
[20:07:31] <alex_joni> and so on..
[20:15:29] <alex_joni> OK, emc2 seems to be building
[20:15:35] <alex_joni> no X around though.. :D
[20:18:14] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands alex_joni a box with XXX
[20:18:26] <alex_joni> Jymmm: too many of those
[20:19:02] <Jymmm> any thoughts? maze2 prototype http://photos.yahoo.com/jymmm
[20:20:02] <alex_joni> hope that's not the XXX you were talking about...
[20:20:20] <Jymmm> nope
[20:20:39] <alex_joni> too easy to solve
[20:20:54] <alex_joni> but looks nice
[20:21:12] <Jymmm> that's 10x10, I can make them 10000x10000 if I wanted to
[20:21:34] <alex_joni> http://www.infostuff.com/images/kids/maze.GIF
[20:21:43] <alex_joni> http://www.treedragon.com/ged/map/fg/maze.solve.21apr02.jpg
[20:21:50] <alex_joni> http://www.bitboost.com/PS_120-76-208-6-10-L.gif
[20:23:00] <Jymmm> how about this? http://moonbear.com/maze/5.gif
[20:23:25] <alex_joni> lol
[20:23:27] <alex_joni> yeah
[20:23:40] <Jymmm> ok, like I said, I can make them VERY difficult.
[20:24:03] <alex_joni> this is nice: http://www.cg.cs.tu-bs.de/bs_root/general/gallery/maze.jpg
[20:24:08] <alex_joni> not too difficult
[20:24:38] <Jymmm> screw that... make these for adults with way too much time on theri hands
[20:24:54] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh-away
[20:25:23] <Jymmm> alex_joni http://moonbear.com/maze/
[20:26:51] <alex_joni> http://www.tgs.com/support/oiv_doc/DemosTools/Demos/Images/fun_maze.gif
[20:27:01] <alex_joni> make one of those
[20:27:23] <Jymmm> nah... KISS
[20:28:46] <cncuser> hi
[20:28:49] <etla> hi
[20:29:13] <cncuser> hi etla
[20:29:31] <alex_joni> cncuser: hi
[20:29:34] <alex_joni> etla: hi
[20:29:36] <cncuser> hi alex_joni : ), got luck with the flash ?
[20:29:48] <alex_joni> didn't got time to try ;)
[20:29:53] <alex_joni> just had to reinstall a BDI :/
[20:29:59] <cncuser> brrr
[20:30:01] <cncuser> :)
[20:30:18] <etla> anyone here an EMC developer ?
[20:30:28] <cncuser> got 17 downloads till now
[20:30:31] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hides
[20:30:39] <cradek> does it seem like people keep asking that around here?
[20:30:41] <Jymmm> what's EMC ?
[20:31:02] <alex_joni> cradek: it's election year
[20:31:04] <alex_joni> ROFL
[20:31:06] <cncuser> hi cradek :)
[20:31:10] <alex_joni> otoh, that's every year
[20:31:27] <etla> :) anyways, I'm wondering where the different motion control modes G61 G61.1 and G64 are coded.
[20:31:29] <alex_joni> etla: you got 3 free questions
[20:31:40] <alex_joni> ok.. question #1
[20:31:45] <etla> in particular the G64 implementation seems quite simple
[20:31:53] <cradek> etla: that way lies madness
[20:32:06] <etla> I'm way beyond that already
[20:32:22] <cradek> tp.c, tc.c in /emcmot
[20:33:05] <etla> Q2: what kind of time constraints are there in these functions ? i.e. if you come up with something fancy, is there time to execute it ?
[20:33:10] <alex_joni> they are interpreted in the interpreter (located in emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/ - part of group #13)
[20:33:24] <alex_joni> from there it gets converted to a canonical function
[20:33:24] <cradek> alex_joni: I think he means `where is the blending code'
[20:33:31] <alex_joni> no idea which one (I need to check that)
[20:33:45] <alex_joni> from there that function gets to emctask (through NML)
[20:34:02] <alex_joni> task analyses it, does some funky stuff on it, and sends it to motion (through SHMEM)
[20:34:08] <alex_joni> then the part cradek said
[20:34:10] <cncuser> who does the emc webstuff ? (webspace, wiki) ?
[20:34:16] <alex_joni> you do
[20:34:21] <alex_joni> :P
[20:34:22] <cncuser> harhar
[20:34:51] <alex_joni> etla: answer2: as it's part of the RT code, it needs to fit inside one PERIOD
[20:35:00] <alex_joni> so you don't want to make it too fancy
[20:35:17] <alex_joni> cncuser: the wiki is open, so basicly anyone can do anything there
[20:35:32] <etla> Q3: can I have three more questions ? B)
[20:35:37] <alex_joni> the webspace (linuxcnc.org is maintained by steves_logging usually known as steve_stallings where around)
[20:35:42] <cncuser> alex_joni: well, can i upload 40 + 100 mb for download in the wiki ;)
[20:35:46] <alex_joni> etla: as many as you want, was only juking
[20:35:50] <alex_joni> cncuser: nope
[20:35:57] <cncuser> thought so :)
[20:35:59] <alex_joni> but you can do that on my mirror, if you ask nicely
[20:36:00] <alex_joni> :D
[20:36:09] <cncuser> cool
[20:36:13] <alex_joni> etla: joking not juking :)
[20:36:25] <etla> I'm annoyed by the fact that G64 blends moves into eachother completely ignoring any following error.
[20:36:49] <etla> I'd like to use it but it would mean that my cam program should put the G64 carefully and normally run in G61
[20:36:50] <alex_joni> ignoring what? what's got ferror to do with that?
[20:37:39] <etla> well, at high feeds when doing for example a square, G64 blends the moves into eachother and I end up with a circle
[20:37:55] <alex_joni> that's what it's supposed to do, afaik
[20:38:10] <cradek> yes, that's a feature
[20:38:24] <cradek> your accel is probably set (very) wrong if it is doing a ridiculous thing
[20:38:38] <etla> hmm.. from the NIST G-code interpreter pdf page 50: There is a maximum allowable
[20:38:38] <etla> deviation at such junctures, and the control should never allow that to be exceeded; acceleration
[20:38:38] <etla> and deceleration may be performed if necessary to do this.
[20:38:38] <etla> Currently, there is no function to set the maximum deviation allowable in
[20:38:38] <etla> CANON_CONTINUOUS mode.
[20:38:56] <cradek> heh yep
[20:39:28] <etla> so in G64 there is absolutely no guarantee that the motion is anywhere near what I want.
[20:39:29] <alex_joni> etla: probably
[20:39:46] <etla> I just have to be careful to put G64 in front of moves that are approx collinear
[20:39:51] <alex_joni> ehh.. you should just adjust what you want based on where it is
[20:39:55] <alex_joni> :)
[20:40:03] <cradek> etla: what are your velocity and accel?
[20:40:10] <alex_joni> F200000
[20:40:38] <alex_joni> etla: the code is somewhere in tp.c and tc.c as cradek said..
[20:40:46] <alex_joni> but no idea who can figure what's in there
[20:40:50] <etla> inch units in the ini vel ca 3 and acc ca 5 if I remember corretly. I program in mm and rapids are 5000mm/min
[20:40:53] <alex_joni> best of luck ;)
[20:41:13] <alex_joni> can't you accel higher?
[20:41:39] <etla> probably, have to try it later this week.
[20:41:58] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes back to install an x-server
[20:42:14] <etla> is there a winXP cvs client that I can use to get the code ?
[20:42:19] <cradek> if vel is 3ips and acc is 5ips^2 you take most of a second to get up to speed and most of a second to get back to zero
[20:42:55] <etla> sure why not. it should not screw up G64 IMO
[20:43:00] <cradek> I'm sure you can use much higher accel. I bet the problem will go away when you have accel configured right.
[20:43:35] <alex_joni> etla: I use tortoise CVS, works like a charm in doze
[20:43:41] <alex_joni> just don't commit back any code with it
[20:43:49] <alex_joni> as doze might spoil all the files :)
[20:43:59] <cradek> I don't disagree, but the alternative is for it to take almost two seconds to change direction at the corners!
[20:44:10] <cradek> you can get that, if you really want it, with G61.
[20:44:22] <alex_joni> right..
[20:44:30] <cradek> this is just misconfiguration causing bogus results, nothing more
[20:44:35] <alex_joni> but a machine doing 5m/min should definately accel higher than that
[20:44:43] <alex_joni> cradek: agreed
[20:45:00] <etla> yes, but from my cam program which produces code for 3D parts with curves and straight parts and stuff, how do I tell it to put G61 in front of the straight bits and G64 in front of the curves
[20:45:25] <alex_joni> you write your own post :P
[20:45:30] <cradek> you don't want or need to. fix your accel, and you will get perfectly acceptable results.
[20:46:08] <etla> what's a good procedure for testing how high accel can be set ?
[20:46:08] <alex_joni> don't think the general user even knows about G61 and G64
[20:46:14] <alex_joni> they just use the default
[20:46:24] <alex_joni> just crank it up till the machine can't keep up
[20:46:29] <alex_joni> or starts to sound funny ;)
[20:46:36] <cradek> that's pretty much it
[20:46:40] <alex_joni> steppers or servo ?
[20:46:41] <cradek> with steppers, they won't be able to get up to speed
[20:46:48] <cradek> they'll stall
[20:46:58] <etla> yeah but on 3D surfaces where the cam program produces _lots_ of G1 or G2 G64 should be useful
[20:47:11] <alex_joni> etla: G64 is the default :P
[20:47:11] <etla> I've got steppers on the machine I'm using now
[20:47:25] <alex_joni> ok.. so you're safe to try higher values
[20:47:30] <alex_joni> try 50 or so
[20:47:44] <alex_joni> vel 3ips, accel 50ips^2
[20:47:55] <etla> ok I'll try that
[20:48:01] <alex_joni> cradek: too high?
[20:48:05] <cradek> nah
[20:48:07] <alex_joni> not sure about inches :D
[20:48:15] <cradek> the worst that will happen is it will stall
[20:48:22] <cradek> (and I bet it won't)
[20:48:24] <etla> do you guys have any opinions on vel and accel differences btw [traj] and [axis] ?
[20:48:39] <alex_joni> keep em the same
[20:48:46] <alex_joni> or axis lower
[20:48:59] <cradek> the same seems to always work
[20:49:20] <cradek> I have different maximums on different axes though, but I don't remember how [traj] is set
[20:49:29] <cradek> if you can set them all the same, do that.
[20:49:31] <alex_joni> how do I tell apt to use cdrom rather than internet?
[20:49:43] <cradek> apt-[something]cdrom
[20:49:47] <alex_joni> traj should be max(axis0, axis1, axis2)
[20:49:50] <alex_joni> I did
[20:49:51] <cradek> I think it's in the wiki somewhere
[20:49:53] <alex_joni> apt-cdrom add
[20:50:12] <cradek> hmm
[20:50:17] <alex_joni> o fsck it ;) I just unplugged the eth
[20:50:20] <cradek> I sure don't know, I don't use debian
[20:51:34] <alex_joni> seems that convinced it :P
[20:52:13] <alex_joni> etla: other questions?
[20:52:33] <etla> you asked for it...
[20:52:39] <etla> how about the backplotter
[20:52:44] <alex_joni> which one ;)
[20:52:48] <etla> using steppers and freqmod
[20:52:52] <alex_joni> there are at least 3 that I know of
[20:52:58] <etla> does it display planned or actual motion ?
[20:53:10] <etla> I've seen the ones in mini and tkemc UIs
[20:53:16] <alex_joni> try axis
[20:53:21] <alex_joni> that's the only one that does both
[20:53:37] <alex_joni> planned & theoretical motion
[20:53:39] <etla> does it come with BDI4.30
[20:53:51] <alex_joni> actual motion nope, because you don't have feedback from the machine
[20:53:57] <alex_joni> etla: should be there
[20:54:30] <etla> OK so motion according to pulses put out from parallell port ?
[20:54:42] <alex_joni> yes
[20:54:57] <jepler> alex_joni: axis shows the ideal path in its preview plot, not the corners that the trajectory planner will cut.
[20:55:15] <alex_joni> the red lines?
[20:55:21] <jepler> no, the white lines
[20:55:23] <alex_joni> isn't that based on position?
[20:55:30] <jepler> the red lines are based on reported machine position
[20:55:37] <Jacky^> Jymmm: you around ?
[20:55:42] <alex_joni> yeah.. that's why I said it's the only one that's got both
[20:55:50] <alex_joni> planned = white
[20:55:55] <alex_joni> theoretical = red
[20:57:26] <alex_joni> otoh I never have seen difference between the two ;)
[20:58:03] <cradek> alex_joni: change your accel to 3...
[20:58:14] <alex_joni> or wait.. I did (just remembered), on an older version (one of the first), when red and white had the same weight
[20:58:20] <alex_joni> cradek: it shows?
[20:59:02] <cradek> I'm trying it now
[20:59:14] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is fighting with hdd space
[20:59:17] <alex_joni> AGAIN
[21:00:04] <cncuser> hello jepler
[21:00:09] <etla> what do I put in port when doing the CVS checkout with tortoise ?
[21:00:31] <fenn> delete /usr/share/locale
[21:00:53] <alex_joni> fenn: already done that
[21:00:56] <cradek> alex_joni: it definitely shows
[21:01:21] <alex_joni> heh
[21:01:47] <ValarQ> * ValarQ only got 1/2 TB free
[21:02:10] <alex_joni> etla: nothing
[21:02:23] <etla> "Empty password used - try 'cvs login' with a real password
[21:02:40] <etla> and then it just hangs.
[21:02:40] <alex_joni> no need to.. just empy pass should be ok
[21:02:45] <alex_joni> but I use it for devel checkout
[21:03:01] <alex_joni> for normal checkout use the plain cvs
[21:03:01] <alex_joni> wincvs iirc
[21:03:05] <alex_joni> works just like a linux version
[21:03:11] <etla> whats the -z3 and -d options ?
[21:03:12] <alex_joni> and like described on the SF page
[21:03:19] <alex_joni> -z3 is compression
[21:03:27] <alex_joni> -d tells what protocol to use
[21:03:40] <alex_joni> -d:ext: <- developer checkout using ssh
[21:03:45] <ValarQ> alex_joni: isn't it the path to the repos?
[21:03:51] <alex_joni> -d:pserver: <- public server
[21:03:56] <alex_joni> ValarQ: after that
[21:04:14] <alex_joni> -d:pserver:cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc
[21:04:19] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/blend.png
[21:05:13] <etla> that's what I'm talking about.
[21:05:32] <etla> there is no way to control the tolerance
[21:05:53] <alex_joni> etla: the machine can't do better
[21:05:53] <cradek> etla: I had to set my accel ridiculously slow to see it
[21:05:53] <alex_joni> it's trying to keep speed constant
[21:05:54] <cradek> alex_joni: sure it can, it can stop.
[21:06:13] <cradek> there's a tradeoff, and etla is right - there's no way to configure the tradeoff (except exact stop mode)
[21:06:13] <alex_joni> not on G64
[21:06:27] <alex_joni> I see it like this: G61 exact path
[21:06:31] <alex_joni> G64 exact speed
[21:06:38] <alex_joni> more or less ;)
[21:09:06] <cradek> yeah, more or less
[21:09:06] <alex_joni> well.. everything seems to be more or less lately ;)
[21:09:06] <alex_joni> it's not about 0 or 1
[21:09:06] <alex_joni> everything is gone FUZZY ;)
[21:09:06] <cradek> G61 does give me sharp corners
[21:09:06] <cradek> I don't see any problem here!
[21:09:06] <alex_joni> but on that blend: I would have suspected it would be symetrical
[21:09:06] <cradek> yeah, that's a little surprising
[21:09:06] <cradek> having looked at the code, I'm happy it works at all
[21:09:06] <jepler> cradek: *cries*
[21:09:06] <cradek> I get great results making actual cuts
[21:09:06] <alex_joni> right ;)
[21:09:06] <alex_joni> * alex_joni moves the HDD from the install box to the devel box
[21:09:06] <cradek> although iirc I have my accel *really* high
[21:09:08] <alex_joni> on a really small machine :P
[21:09:11] <cradek> I have very strong stepper drivers
[21:09:28] <alex_joni> not doing > 2g, right?
[21:09:50] <cradek> maybe if I crash into it with my car
[21:10:12] <etla> but it's still not a very nice mode when the tolerance depends on the accel value...
[21:10:33] <cradek> etla: if you're cutting wood or some other material that burns if you slow down, it's what you want
[21:10:37] <cradek> like I said, it's a tradeoff
[21:11:32] <fenn> get a real irc client!
[21:11:44] <fenn> : )
[21:11:46] <cncuser> cradek: are there any chances to get axis multilingual ? for i partly translated (50%) axis.nf but dont see how this can be used by others
[21:11:46] <cradek> * cradek kicks fenn
[21:11:47] <etla> from the RS274 pdf: The canonical machining functions share with the RS274 language the simplifying assumption
[21:11:47] <etla> that machine dynamics can be almost ignored. That is, in this model, acceleration and
[21:11:47] <etla> deceleration do not occur. Components of the machining center can be told to move at a specific
[21:11:47] <etla> rate, and that rate is imagined as being achieved instantaneously. Stopping is also imagined as
[21:11:47] <etla> instantaneous. This model obviously does not correspond with reality. The control modes
[21:11:47] <etla> provided here provide some compensation for this lack of consideration of dynamics.
[21:11:58] <cncuser> to german, btw.
[21:12:14] <cradek> cncuser: there's some i18n work done in axis, but not all
[21:12:48] <alex_joni> etla: you still need lots of accel/decel to cut a corner
[21:12:49] <cncuser> cradek: so there is a setupoption ?
[21:12:57] <alex_joni> per axis accel/decel
[21:13:10] <cradek> cncuser: I'm sure jepler knows more about this
[21:13:17] <cradek> I know i18n is not done
[21:13:22] <alex_joni> but.. if you can figure out how to improve it (without breaking lots of other things).. your mostly welcomed to
[21:13:24] <cradek> it was not a priority while we still had bugs to fix
[21:13:25] <cncuser> cradek: ok, thanks
[21:13:30] <etla> yes but apparently the code that does the traj planning in g64 mode does not take into accout accel/deccel at all.
[21:13:44] <alex_joni> now this is nice:
[21:13:58] <alex_joni> pivot_root: No such file or directory
[21:14:05] <cradek> etla: of course it does - it does not exceed your accel limit, which is why it has to take such a round corner
[21:14:18] <cradek> alex_joni: that's probably an initrd problem
[21:14:21] <alex_joni> . /sbin/init: 426: cannot open dev/console: No such file
[21:14:40] <alex_joni> Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!
[21:14:42] <alex_joni> :)
[21:14:48] <alex_joni> just figured it out :D
[21:15:21] <alex_joni> used hdc on the install machine
[21:15:25] <alex_joni> moved over as hda ;)
[21:17:27] <alex_joni> damn this box is sloow.. but it's got ISA for the STG..
[21:18:21] <Jymmm> 8 or 16 bit?
[21:18:26] <Jymmm> * Jymmm snickers *
[21:18:44] <Jacky^> hey Jymmm
[21:18:50] <Jymmm> where?
[21:19:09] <cradek> I've got a nice 486dx2-66 chip here if you need to speed it up
[21:19:17] <Jacky^> whats the name of embedded board we talked some mounth ago ?
[21:19:23] <alex_joni> it's an PII-233 ;)
[21:19:24] <Jacky^> do you remember ?
[21:19:43] <Jymmm> mesa card?
[21:19:46] <Jacky^> it was a cheaper embedded board
[21:20:00] <Jacky^> cpu 486 maybe..
[21:20:01] <Jymmm> define "embedded"
[21:20:09] <Jacky^> :/
[21:20:13] <Jacky^> ouch
[21:20:17] <Jymmm> oh that about $30 ?
[21:20:18] <Jacky^> embedded
[21:20:22] <Jacky^> yeah
[21:20:36] <Jacky^> got a link ?
[21:21:28] <Jymmm> http://www.halted.com/ccp17878-embedded-pc-on-a-card-sgs-st-pc-95044.htm
[21:21:50] <Jacky^> Jymmm: thanks :)
[21:22:06] <Jymmm> it's a 486 though
[21:22:10] <Jacky^> yeah
[21:22:13] <Jymmm> k
[21:25:04] <alex_joni> Jymmm: there are some nice embedded 80186 ;) with webserver (all on a chip)
[21:25:09] <alex_joni> can't recall the name..
[21:25:31] <Jymmm> alex_joni That board is available locally, about 15 minutes from me
[21:26:30] <alex_joni> ok
[21:27:04] <Jymmm> they had it on display, just happened to mention it in here a ways back.
[21:31:48] <Jacky^> http://www.robot-italy.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_78/products_id/441
[21:31:50] <Jacky^> :)
[21:31:53] <alex_joni> just updated my mirror
[21:32:05] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/
[21:38:02] <alex_joni> damn this debian..
[21:38:15] <alex_joni> again the XF86Config-4 is void...
[21:40:12] <lerman> This is my first IRC message. Someone please tell me it is visible and I will go back to lurk mode. Thanks, Ken.
[21:40:30] <etla> it is visible.
[21:40:55] <alex_joni> hey Ken
[21:41:17] <alex_joni> etla: if you got questions about the interpreter you might want to ask ken..
[21:41:30] <alex_joni> he was up to his chest in interp. guts lately :D
[21:41:58] <etla> ken: I was wondering where the motion mode G61 G61.1 and G64 is implemented
[21:42:15] <alex_joni> not in te interp.
[21:42:36] <alex_joni> the interp. only sees it in the g-code, and sends it along to the task and the further to motion
[21:42:37] <cradek> etla: I told you already - tp.c, tc.c in emcmot
[21:42:44] <alex_joni> what cradek said
[21:44:02] <etla> in emc2/src/emc/kinematics ?
[21:45:38] <alex_joni> yeah
[21:51:22] <cncuser> Private messages from unregistered users are
[21:51:33] <cncuser> currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register!
[21:51:34] <cncuser> dammit
[21:52:28] <cncuser> jeppler: i am about to finish translating axis.nf into german is there a way to inegrate it into the setup ? (like ./setup.py -lang de) ?
[22:04:45] <cradek> jepler: ^^
[22:05:24] <jepler> cncuser: no easy way at the moment.
[22:05:27] <alex_joni> ignoring is bliss ;)
[22:05:56] <jepler> cncuser: I know that's not the answer you wanted.
[22:06:18] <cncuser> jepler: well, no problem, one must just exchange 1 file. so whateve r:)
[22:06:20] <alex_joni> I am certainly no axis expert, but a few files need to be changed
[22:06:29] <jepler> cncuser: I made a halfhearted attempt to gettextize axis before I realized I didn't know what I was doing .. you can see some signs of that in the axis.nf file
[22:06:50] <jepler> ( use of [_ {some user-visible string}])
[22:08:13] <cncuser> ic
[22:08:44] <alex_joni> but I think jepler won't mind if you finish the i18n stuff
[22:08:47] <alex_joni> and send him a patch
[22:09:01] <jepler> that'd be great
[22:09:11] <cncuser> hehe, wlel, i dont know much bout i18n
[22:09:24] <alex_joni> not that hard
[22:09:25] <alex_joni> :)
[22:09:27] <cncuser> i just rewrite the english "helptext" stuff
[22:09:32] <alex_joni> you'll figure it out :D
[22:09:36] <jepler> you speak german and english, that makes you an expert.
[22:09:53] <jepler> compared to an american like me, anyway
[22:10:00] <cncuser> hehe
[22:10:07] <cradek> surely you can learn tcl more easily than we can learn german
[22:10:16] <alex_joni> cradek: not true
[22:10:17] <alex_joni> :P
[22:10:18] <jepler> ich ein stuck brot essen haben mit schlag
[22:10:28] <cncuser> *pointing at alex joni*
[22:10:29] <alex_joni> jepler: lol
[22:10:40] <alex_joni> cradek: it only took me about 15 years of learning german
[22:10:44] <alex_joni> so.. easier than tcl :D
[22:10:59] <cncuser> jepler: bread with cream :) interesting diet ;)
[22:11:24] <cradek> don't you have to capitalize some Nouns there?
[22:11:25] <alex_joni> yeah.. it's an american diet ;)
[22:11:29] <cradek> that's the only german I know
[22:11:29] <alex_joni> all of them
[22:11:30] <alex_joni> :P
[22:11:32] <alex_joni> so it's simple
[22:11:44] <cncuser> cradek: yes, but i ignore that ;)
[22:11:50] <jepler> so how would you translate the phrase "Love with a capital 'L'" into German?
[22:12:08] <jepler> I mean, since it's capital L all the time
[22:12:15] <alex_joni> cradek: but usually as you speak, it doesn't make a difference
[22:12:16] <alex_joni> :P
[22:12:28] <alex_joni> jepler: that's too deep right now
[22:12:50] <alex_joni> try starting with simple lessons
[22:13:06] <alex_joni> like spelling simple words
[22:13:10] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks of some
[22:13:17] <cradek> alex_joni: what's that german word for the weight you gain when you're depressed?
[22:13:21] <cncuser> "Liebe mit grossem 'L'"
[22:13:47] <alex_joni> cradek: not sure I even know the english one..
[22:13:50] <cradek> something about bacon
[22:13:55] <cncuser> haha
[22:14:08] <cradek> ?
[22:14:19] <cncuser> Frustspeck maybe, but i just made this one up ;)
[22:14:24] <alex_joni> heh
[22:14:31] <alex_joni> maybe Liebeskummerspeck
[22:14:38] <alex_joni> but that's Love related :D
[22:14:44] <cncuser> aaaahhh
[22:14:46] <cncuser> ;)
[22:14:52] <cradek> I saw it in an article that was talking about things that don't translate well
[22:15:25] <cradek> yes Kummerspeck
[22:15:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wins :D
[22:15:47] <cradek> Kummerspeck is a German word which literally means grief bacon: it is the word that describes the excess weight gained from emotion-related overeating
[22:15:59] <alex_joni> yeah..
[22:16:15] <alex_joni> but speck is not translated ok
[22:16:23] <alex_joni> it does mean bacon, but also fat
[22:16:31] <cradek> ah
[22:16:36] <alex_joni> bauchspeck = fat on your belly
[22:16:49] <cncuser> so when i lift my t-shirt, i see one, two, three roles of speck :)
[22:16:59] <alex_joni> if you think of it.. it's the same thing ;)
[22:17:00] <jepler> in english you can say someone has "porked up"
[22:17:20] <alex_joni> cncuser: there are some things we wouldn't want to picture (thank you very much)
[22:17:26] <alex_joni> :P
[22:17:50] <cncuser> haha
[22:17:56] <cradek> rom German, Blechlawine literally a metal avalanche which is a long queue of stationary cars on the Autobahn.
[22:17:59] <cradek> F
[22:18:19] <cncuser> alex_joni: all natural "Winterspeck" bears got that too
[22:18:23] <alex_joni> cradek: not very used
[22:18:34] <alex_joni> I love winterspeck
[22:18:38] <alex_joni> it keeps you warm :D
[22:18:44] <alex_joni> the problem is getting rid of it
[22:18:59] <cncuser> i cant see no problem :
[22:19:01] <cncuser> )
[22:20:58] <alex_joni> anyways, I really think you should start with simple words chris
[22:20:58] <alex_joni> like: Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitaenskajuetenklinenputzergehilfe
[22:21:12] <alex_joni> Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitaenskajuetenklinkenputzergehilfe
[22:21:21] <alex_joni> had an 'k' missing there :)
[22:21:42] <cradek> now you're just being silly.
[22:21:56] <alex_joni> that's a real word
[22:22:02] <alex_joni> at least it counts as one
[22:22:16] <alex_joni> german allows you to compose words
[22:22:30] <alex_joni> Oberammergaueralpenkr�uterdelikatessenfr�hst�cksk�se
[22:22:44] <alex_joni> not that hard, is it?
[22:22:57] <cncuser> but its more a joke then used :)
[22:23:10] <cncuser> you get bad ratings in school with things like that :)
[22:23:32] <cncuser> creative german wording isnt very widespread
[22:24:20] <alex_joni> but this can be used: Fussballweltmeisterschaftsqualifikationsspiel
[22:24:44] <alex_joni> it's a "qualifying match for a soccer world championship"
[22:25:47] <ValarQ> sounds like fun
[22:26:15] <alex_joni> sounds like swedish
[22:26:17] <ValarQ> isn't there a "mastering german" lesson?
[22:26:18] <alex_joni> only better
[22:26:18] <alex_joni> :D
[22:26:22] <ValarQ> alex_joni: :P
[22:26:22] <alex_joni> should be
[22:26:27] <ValarQ> alex_joni: can't be better :P
[22:26:51] <ValarQ> Sjutton generade sjätteklassare sjunger Tjeckiska skitsånger!
[22:28:40] <alex_joni> again the young czech people singing shitty songs?
[22:28:49] <alex_joni> if my translation skills are up to that?
[22:29:15] <alex_joni> 7 of them?
[22:29:22] <alex_joni> all 7th grader.. right?
[22:31:24] <alex_joni> * alex_joni tries again
[22:32:17] <alex_joni> seven young czech seventhgrader shitty singer
[22:35:30] <alex_joni> cradek: Wohnraummodernisierungssicherungsgesetz
[22:35:36] <alex_joni> that's an german law
[22:35:43] <alex_joni> not sure it's still actual :)
[22:38:54] <alex_joni> but english is not that bad either: antidisestablishmentarianism
[22:43:24] <alex_joni> ValarQ_: connection problems?
[22:46:42] <alex_joni> yay people, I see X
[23:16:46] <alex_joni> oh.. guess what..
[23:16:48] <alex_joni> it snowed today in romania
[23:16:53] <alex_joni> weather is really crazy
[23:27:43] <c0slm0> Jacky^ ki zzuca zukunij
[23:27:43] <Jacky^> hello c0slm0
[23:27:43] <c0slm0> hi
[23:27:43] <c0slm0> ndaiu ti diku
[23:27:56] <Jacky^> query c0slm0
[23:29:30] <Jacky^> mi leggi in query c0slm0 ?
[23:32:13] <Jacky^> mmhh ...
[23:33:57] <Jacky^> hello c0slm00000
[23:34:02] <Jacky^> yuhuuuuu
[23:34:04] <Jacky^> :)
[23:37:46] <c0slm0> staiu scrivendu sii tu ka nn lei
[23:37:54] <Jacky^> e no ..
[23:38:05] <Jacky^> evidentemente non ti identificasti o server
[23:38:23] <Jacky^> /msg nickserv identify passwdtua
[23:38:33] <Jacky^> roger ?
[23:38:38] <c0slm0> mo viu
[23:38:44] <Jacky^> ok
[23:49:19] <c0slm0> mmah!
[23:49:34] <Jacky^> beh ?
[23:49:45] <c0slm0> risolvia ..trovai nu prog stle commander