alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
rayh is now known as rayh-away
Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (6 files in 5 dirs): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Sun Oct 16 01:15:01 BST 2005 "
Interesting, if you use the !RESET pin on the Tiny13, you have created an OTP chip :).
T2313 it is for now.
* A-L-P-H-A pats K`zan on the head.
I forgot most of the stuff I learned for atmel now.
been sooo many months.
* fenn mumbles something about south carolina
actually, i can't defend it with any conviction
just passing throught for a few years
A-L-P-H-A: Working on a single axis driver using an avr for these funky steppers of mine :)
Get interrupt0 working and then the fun begins :-)
I did the math for servo/Thiele/Small
but I nrrd one more thing
if possible can u please speak in skype?
I need the formula for radiation reactance
going to skype
I'll be back in a bit
in one piece you mean?
I am picking the mill apart more
it's a bit uncertain.
anonimasu: do you know if there is any application for handling PLCs in unix?
hi cradek, jepler :)
fi someone wants to take a look at a rambased (256mb ram) live cd running emc2 (40mb iso). the beta is avaiable for download: http://box.hinternet.at/ctx10b.iso
Jacky^ devo parlarti
non farmi fare colpi di testa inutili
ok sapro come fare allora contaci
ValarQ: what kind of plc?
my friend that asks got a Mitsubishi
and I would get a better plc..
non ladder based..
ladder is a invention from hell :D
* anonimasu has the spindle in molecules now
trying to decide if I should go with a huydralic motor ..
they will do 10000rpm without gearing..
and provide heaps of torque..
ValarQ: I am thinking about running linux and vmware on my workbox so I can use the paralell port for programming the plcs :)
hey anders, any luck yet?
havent been home until 5 this morning
I saw that.. I was around last night
but you weren't :P
alex_joni: I thought about wrinting a test driver for something first except for the usc..
like a jogwheel on the parport or something like that
hmm.. you don't need one for the parport
but you could do a module for the jogwheel
has anyone a hint where i can find a good description of how to setup backlash, ferror und period
but there wouldnt really be a point would it?
cncuser: emc2 ?
alex_joni: for some practice first..
period should be set as low as you can
but high enough so that you can still use the machine :D
so i start with 0
so it depends on the realtime
under a certain value it WILL lock the machine
it's like this:
you got a RT thread
that runs with that PERIOD
ok, so i could do some realtime testscripts and calculate a value for period
and if the PERIOD is too low, then there is no room for the rest of the linux to run
well.. you should basicly start with the default value
the one in CVS
and mybe tune that a bit
what machine do you have?
a prototype using a freqmod controller
no, I mean the PC
what processor / frequency
oh, a 2.6ghz p4, but
not very RT fiendly..
i do a livecd and want to get the parameters set correctly fpor 800mhz machines too
why not ?
you could start by using the RTAI testsuits
yes, i thought about that
well.. it's a 20-stages pipeline
and usually when that gets borked, a lot of time gets lost to replace the whole flow
could you tell me what that means ?
basicly on a computer you have instructions, right?
those instructions should get executed one by one
yes, soince i have no smp machine
but one instruction is a bit more complex than what it only means
you need to fetch the instruction from somewhere (data memory)
prepare the ALU / FPU
execute the instruction (might be more than one cycle for complex operations)
store the result
so basicly you have a lot of operations
ok, but it does that with 2.6 ghz so the more instructions should not be too laggy compared to a 800mhz pii or are they ?
and to increase performance some guys came up with the idea of pipelines
hang on a minute ,)
I'll get to there
ok :, sorry
the idea of the pipeline is basicly very neat
start decoding on a command
then, this command advances, and you get the next one
so during the second decode, the first one gets executed
and so on..
but the problem with this is: there comes a point when you don't know which way the program goes
say you got an IF then else instruction
you have no idea in advance what direction the program will follow, but only after the instruction IF is executed
so it waits till all got calculatet ?
so in order not to loose time, a branch prediction is done
there is another device inside the cpu that predicts where the program will go
and sometimes it is wrong
now back to P4
it has a 20-stages pipeline,
that means there are bits from 20 instructions inside it
and when the branchprediction borkes (decides wrong)
then you need to replace all those 20 with the correct ones
all got dumped ?
and that takes a LOT of time
on older processors the stages are shorter
so less time is thrown away
making it a bit more predictible
hmm, so, what can be done to reduce branchprediction errors ?
and with RT that's exactly what you need
a slow but predictible processor is a lot better than a fast unpredictable one
so, is 800mhz pIII better then 2.6ghz p4 ? :)
for id switch my develystem then
well.. depends on the metric to evaluate the performance
dont want to work with erros coming from timingissues
if I were to pick then I'd say the P4 is better
the point I wanted to make is:
and i thing the livecd will not be used on p4 anyways, but older computers not in use anymore
say you got a PERIOD of 100 on a 800 PIII
that doesn't mean that the PERIOD will be 50 on a 1.6 PIV
it might only be a glitch better
because the P4 might perform most on the time very good (say even at 50)
but once in a while it will perform worse
so you need the worst case PERIOD
so what I actually mean is: if you double the CPU power it won't get you the double RT performance
but it will bring you some linux performance
which you also need to use the PC ;)
you still got non-RT stuff running there
UI, interpreter, I/O, (just emc-related), along with all the linux stuff (memory management, drive access, etc.)
so a better PC is actually better..
now.. back to PERIOD
well, i thought mhz = same time for more work = more slices of available cpu = would result in a more realtime puter. i should start at the bottom again :)
basicly it means that
but there are exceptions, as I pointed out above
the main problem is that current development on the PC's includes a lot of tricks
which all spoil your RT expectacy
if you would have a PIII working at 2GHz, I'd expect it to perform better than a P4 2GHz
at least for RT stuff
so one can say, more(bigger) pipelines = lees rt
but pipeline is only one of the problems
i take a look at the specs of amd proc right away, lets compare
* alex_joni didn't look at processors for a while now
I gave up trying to keep up
ok. back to PERIOD
there are 3 period's inside EMC
the main one (the fastest thread) actually gives you the frequency of the pulses your system can output
cncuser: still with me?
* alex_joni neads to dissappear for some time
I'll be back in half an hour
is that ok?
maybe you gather some more questions by then..
ok : ill look at processor specs till tjhen :) thanks for the infoflash :)
thanks for the ISO
I'm eager to try it out :)
:) tried it ?
talk to you about it when I get back
ok, cu lator
alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
rayh-away is now known as rayh
alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
i recommend presisng 3 on syslinux prompt.. also i must warn you that i uses swappartitions if it find them (so you loos softwaresuspend data)
heh.. take it slowly ;)
tell me a bot about it first
darn.. can't type :)
well, its puppy linux 1.0.4 based, has a rtai kernel and emc2 (cvs about 1 month old)
ok.. I think I read a bit about puppy
does it need to run off a CD?
it need 256mb to run emc from ram, and 128 if you install on harddisk. it uses the tkemc fromtendby default
or would it be possible to run it off smthg else?
no, you can install it from withing the livecd
you can run it with qemu :)
nah I meant more like: flash-disk
smthg like that
emc on a stick
that would be great .. :)
maybe i need to compile in some usbdrivers then which are modules now, but should be no big problem
* alex_joni thinks that would be a nice thing to have
also.. maybe you want to run the ISO through the mirrors :D
I see an austrian server, you from there?
well, with puppy 1.0.5 the rewriteable cd live iso should work, i may use that too
yes, im from vienna
ohh.. nice, wundersch�ne stadt :)
where in vienna?
* alex_joni visits vienna once in a while..
neer the center
yes, your right
ok.. back to puppy
alex_joni: and youre from ?
war fr�her �sterreich-Ungarn ;)
cool, allmost been there a month ago, bin to bulgaria (black see)
no, sozopol, burgas
burgas is even nicer
but from where you are I would go to croatia ;)
i like the communist campingplaces
iv been to coratia before, we did a roadtrip, slowenia, kroatia, serbia, bulgaria
we wanted to go to odessa, but have had some bad lluck so needed to return after 3 weeks
in kroatia weve been to premantura / bula
hmm.. not sure where that is
I've been to Istria this year (Rovinj)
the last part of istria
that's pula afaik :)
not bula :D
a pula, sorry ;)
although that's a very bad word in romanian :D
so we prefer pola (the italian name)
I have an SBC running EMC
and I always fantasized about running it from a CF
it does have a CF slot
well, cf, meens redboot and stuff
[15:16:37] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/mytoy/HPIM5139.JPG
i have linux running on my ipaq for 5 years now, but never looked closly to the mtd stuff
afaik it's mounted as ATA into the BIOS
redboot, has to do with partitioning mtd i assume
yes, but when linux starts ;)
its a mtd
with jffs or cramfs on it
ok.. no idea what that is ;) but you might be right
* alex_joni is looking at the iso
Memory Technology Device
there are some stuff you could cut out
its a beta
most of the rtai
docs & such
i think i can bring it down to 30mb with axis included... but that would be in a week till a month
what's that emc-config-selector.sh ?
from what I see it builds a list with existing ini's ?
ups, thats garbage :)
you start emc by klicking on EMC Konfigurationen
and then just clikcing your ini
or if you got you own
I'm just looking at the ISO for now..
inside it I mean
not clickeable :D
do a qemu -cdom the.iso -boot d -m 256. its made to click :)
usr_cram.fs is the normal puppy stuff?
well, stript down and slightly modified
C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\alex.joni>qemu -cdom the.iso -boot d -m 256
Der Befehl "qemu" ist entweder falsch geschrieben oder
konnte nicht gefunden werden.
not gonna happen ;)
theres qemu for windows too
running linux stuff?
* alex_joni pays attention
now ?, hmm moment
[15:23:46] <alex_joni> http://www.h7.dion.ne.jp/~qemu-win/
alex_joni: looks good, i cant try, i dont have windows
[15:26:02] <cncuser> http://www.oszoo.org/ftp/qemu/win32/release/QemuInstall-0.7.2.exe
alex_joni: when its not driven with3, it boots on my p4 within 1 minute into emc... i love it :) puppy iss the fastest
if without harddisk it takes 10 seconds more
what do you mean by: when its not driven with3 ?
a boot option to not search for a harddisk and place a datafile on it
or no, thats not true
it lets you sleect the harddisk or choose non at all
ok.. qemu seems to work
now.. what's the magic incantation to try that iso?
hmm, i dont know has this qemu a gui ?
if not its qemu -cdrom the.iso -boot d -m 256
not that I've seen
ijm thinking about the title: "puppy, sit"
for a good puppy makes sit within a predictable time, ;)
I see the emc2 splash screen
and then ?
its emulated ;)
on my p4 2.6 it starts after 1,5 seconds or so :)
doesn't seem to run
here it does, in qemu
what cpu ?
did you give qemu 256 mb ram ? (-m 256)
centrino 1.4 GHz
so that should be enough
running emc from console, to see what happens
i have tried it on a few computers and qemu unde rlinux, dunno
tkemc is up
maybe qemu under windows is not that fast
it really is slow ;)
but it works :D
you may trie it native if you dare :)
what does that mean?
if you have just ntfs partitions you cant loose anything :)
I have a vfat iirc
burn the iso and boot it right away
I have some ext3 partition ;)
then you can loose 2456mb of vfat
well, if you dont use swsuspend, or are totally out of diskspace its save to run the iso
no swsuspend on linux
then its perfectly save
nice splash on emc2 ;)
heh.. just joking ;)
I did that :P
I think timing is off..
the splashscreen just sits there..
the splashscreen look cute
but I like the background too
got mc on it?
its the motor and clutch of a puch maxi 2 gears automatic :)
no, but rox
a gui filemanager
I see.. it looks nice
and it's great that you can try it out like this
I decreased PERIOD, and now I can play with tkemc
obviously I get following errors
as it can't generate pulses fast enough
ok.. back to your questions:
what was that? period, backlash & ferror?
I think period is clear.. right?
yes, the maximum time a task can get done
and the most basic task is to generate stepping pulses
so the period directly affects the number of pulses emc can output
ok.. now backlash
that depends on the physical setup of your machine
if you got an axis with backlash, you need to measure that and enter it in the ini, so that emc compensates on that
what does that mean?
on every direction ivertion of the axis, emc will first move the axis with the value you entered
inversion not ivertion
so that's a parameter that depends on the machine
it's the distance (the biggest distance) between commanded and actual position that is reported as an error
here you have 2 cases
sorry, telephone,m brbr
good mornin all ; )
miniMess used to be dmess ?
hmm yes... i guess minimess is still powered up..
ok then ;)
it had been powered up so long when i moved it last week i couldn't remember my login
its the linux box
cncuser: back to ferror
I said there are 2 cases
1. servo system
2. stepper system
in my case a stepper
actually the main difference is closed-loop vs open-loop
you have a commanded position, and an actual position
yes, and no feedback
huh.. lost link
what was the last you've seen?
<alex_joni> you have a commanded position, and an actual position
<cncuser> yes, and no feedback
so commanded position comes from the motion controller
and actual position in this case is the actual number of pulses that could be generated
so if there's a difference between the two it means that ferror is too tight set, and you get a following error
so.. it's only in software, that means that emc needs to go with a certain speed, but the pulse generating can't keep up
ok, so if i do a F20 or something it should not be visable because there would not likley be a pulse generation beeing missed/delayed
but if your machine has a very big PERIOD, then the above F20 might generate a joint following error
as it needs to output a certain train pulse to achieve the F20
if period is set to a sekond ;)
should the accel /decell not handle the ramp up and ramp down process
yes.. I wanted to keep things simple
so probably it will start accelerating, and then get to a certain speed where the pulse generating can't keep up
and it will ferror
cncuser: but it's a bit more complicated than this
there are basicly 2 parameters for ferror
ferror and min_ferror
one is compared at zero speed
and the other at maximum speed
and linear interpolation between
so that at high speed you might fall a bit behind
but when the machine stops it needs to be accurate
my prototype thingy here does the following. it goes a bit farer then commanded and then gets back and is allmost where it should be. thats the behavior i related to ferror and stuff. i try to play with the values
do you have backlash set up?
can we monitor lead and lag as opposed te just error???
* alex_joni_ thinks the guy to be bugged about this just joined
* jmkasunich hides
BACKLASH = 0.000
my hands hurt.. :D
cncuser: ok, then we can rule that out
well, t5he backlash would be the "airtime" on the spindle
what is the issue?
<cncuser> my prototype thingy here does the following. it goes a bit farer then commanded and then gets back and is allmost where it should be. thats the behavior i related to ferror and stuff. i try to play with the values<cncuser> my prototype thingy here does the following. it goes a bit farer then commanded and then gets back and is allmost where it should be. thats the behavior i related to ferror and stuff. i try to play with the values
in pos' window looks too big..
emc1 or emc2 or bdi4?
emc2, cvs 1 month old
did you see the exchange on the list with Oscar Dalem? he reported a similar problem, and I commented about what I thought was happening
jmkasunich, no, i take a look at the archives
it was just this week
alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
hmm, accell, ok
jmkasunich: this was that 8 pulses, 11 pulses, 3 the other direction issue?
yses, i think, im reading that
Jacky^ devo parlarti subito
alex_joni: thanks again, im going to leave. cu
by folks )
Jacky^ is in trouble :D
* Jacky^ busy..
so.. who tried the puppy thing out?
what puppy thing??
cncuser did a minimal iso (about 40MB) with emc2 in it
[16:42:51] <alex_joni> http://box.hinternet.at/ctx10b.iso
you wanted to try emc2 out? didn't you?
[18:07] <alex_joni> cncuser did a minimal iso (about 40MB) with emc2 in it
[18:07] <alex_joni> http://box.hinternet.at/ctx10b.iso
just burn the ISO, and it runs live..
no need to install, etc
i may try it as well..
* alex_joni tried it in qemu
Jacky^ is very busy foreberfor me
Jymmm: not clear enough?
wouldn't that mean kats is Jacky^'s gf?
hmm.. smthg like that
or bf, whatever
sure sounds like that..
Jacky^ has never time for her :D
kats how long have you and Jacky^ been going together?
maybe we got it all wrong
kats: I appologize if that is the case
Jacky^ quarrel whit me
* alex_joni is having an creative moment
alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
* alex_joni_away will be back in half an hour
alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
cradek: you around chris?
alex_joni wheres the pic of you menaing creative?
it's an email
and it'being composed as we speak :P
Hi Alex, back again !!
congratulation for your nomination, i wanted to do the same, but i wanted to ask you before
how was it in sweden ?
* Jymmm first duty as member of the baord would be to toss alex_joni in a dunking tank just like at the carnical!
I just got out of the water
so..I wouldn't mind
who said anything about water?
what kind of tank?
porta poty recovery tank
alex_joni "Can you feel the love?"
it's ..magic ;)
neat, with "ctx10b" running in qemu, tkemc pops right up...
same here ;)
jepler: is it running ok?
I dunno, I didn't actually try to exit estop even
heh.. it runs a bit slow here
the RT part, but the interface runs great
it wasn't bad here. about 3 minutes from starting qemu to seeing tkemc, I think
the difference is that I have doze-qemu :P
jepler: same here, the tricky part was when actually using emc
switching on, and homing takes a while here
it's jogging .. slowly...
hm I just figured out how to mount the toolchanger carousel..
ah well, more importantly I've got the bearings in a box..
you did? :P
going to oreder new ones spec:ed for 10krpm
so that I only need one axis of motion..
bearings in a box in a sock burried under rocks by the fox with some lox
ctx10b looks nice. now if I can figure out a way to make axis small enough that he'll add it...
I cant wait until I get the spindle back togther
jepler: he said he'll put axis on the next version
The size of axis was a concern, since it requires python and that involves a lot of files
this is still a beta version..
FYI... Charcoal lighter fluid works great at dissolving lithium grease.
64oz unscented: $4, 15oz carb/engine degreaser/brake cleaner: stinky and $6
alex_joni: I suggest, to put your email about HAL Pin names into a new wiki page
Imperator_: I thought about that
but I dropped that idea
if it is in a file in cvs, nobody will edit it
only the ones who actually do some developing
and that's the people I want to edit it
i think it will be the same in a wiki page
nope, anybody will change the wiki..
and maybe that wiki page grows
that won't mean that they a. have a clue or b. are willing to implement what they have proposed there
the Pin names point me to another problem, do you have a solutian for the problem with the hardware counters ?
what kind of hardware counters?
that ones who are set to zero or a other value, when they reach the reference point
right.. this doesn't address that
but still.. we need to see what happens ;)
then the PID sees a big error and it moves very fast then
no PID during homing..
so that might not be an issue
gotta try it out sometime
ore we use the ability of some counters, to save the position and then we read that position and we make a ofset in emc. so PID sees nothing
this week I wanna finish the STG driver
including the index pulse stuff, so I'll have a look at it then
today i will finish my breakout boards
the problem is that i dont have the index pulse on my siemens cards, so i cant test that
jepler: still around?
alex_joni: I'm here now, I see you paged earlier
yeah, wanted to talk to you about smthg
but I sent it to the dev list
was it that long message that I only scanned?
well I agree completely with whatever it is that it says
probably nothing you're interested in right now..
bon jour.. once more
bon jour, ca va?
any brainiacs have any thoughts on diamond separation?? a friend dropped off a sac of high grade south african ore yesterday.
not our area of expertise
i know but im lookin for outside the box thinkin'
oh I have that
miniMess: have somone with the right experience do it?
they all want to use caustis dissolution and thats sooo deadly... i have kids in the house
use big hammers
and pound the hell out of it
[19:30:47] <anonimasu> http://www.debeerscanada.com/files_2/mineral_processing_1.html
the dudes who do it now gave this to me to do something different to it
different as in lookin for a leap not a crawl to the next level
its currently in crushed fine gravel to powder... in sunlight you can see visible diamonds..
if you rub your hands thru it a few times you come up sparkin'
x-raying for them..
im thinkin of a static carpet type thingy
i havent got an x-ray machine in the arsenal ...yet
not sure that will bring you anything
since that's diamonds you have why dont you ahve a machine like that..
generator from the furnace air cleaner
alex_joni: what wont?
like what??? that
what will that attract?
mixed with diamond
good the diamonds will stay on the lower moving carpet
I doubt that will work..
if worked on doubt before
ok heres another thing...
sand is mosly silicon... can i eletro - depossite it on an electrode.. away from the diamonds
try melting the whole thing
could do.. we have a forge..
how do we tap it
now ash and diamonds =)
but you would still have to separate diamonds from glas.s.
yes... glass and diamonds
and how do you determinate what's what?
one good smack should do it
specific gravity.. and index of refraction
when you see diamonds YOU KNOW IT
its like gold..
bottom of page... http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Si/key.html
I am guessing you could float it to make sheets..
and use a laser to scan the surface..
or well shining a pattern through it..
hey dudes.. this whouldnt just refine diamonds... it could make cheaper silicon solar cells...
you could use a high res camera to look for distortions of the pattern..
how much of it is diamonds and si (percentage) ?
might probably cost more than the whole thing is worth
from the look of this sample i figure in 1 kg of ore there are probably 5-10 grams of diamond dust
alex_joni: you are talking about diamonds..
miniMess got grafite?
but the chemical approach might be cheaper.
have si... and solid carbon blocks too
electric furnace i have .. but no temps.
what about ultrasonic transducer to break up everything else but the diamonds
Jymmm: how much crack did you take this morning ;)
i thought of ultrasonic break-up and centrifuge drain
its a good flippin idea...
whats the density of diamonds compared to Si ?
ata sertain frequency the ultrasound will start to vibrate the diamonds out
how are you going to generate that kind of sound?
miniMess at least 50% ?
big flippin speakers
i would think so..
les would probably be the best one to come up with an idea
hm, I think there are special speakers that's able to produce that kind of sound..
anonimasu you've never seen an ultrasonic jewlery cleaner before?
Jymmm: no, but I doubt big speakers are a good way to do it
anonimasu why not?
its the jewelery idea... yes..
[19:56:02] <anonimasu> http://www.fuji-piezo.com/prodpiez.htm
bustin' up bigger stuff
Jymmm: because there are stuff that would do the job better.
anonimasu such as?
such as the stuff I just posted..
use pressureair in cans, a horn and a small servo to do the pressing of the gobutton :)
guys i didnt wanna start a ruckas here...
I am assuming you want to do production of this stuff..
or atleast make it in a production env..
anonimasu but using piezo you can hit/avoid the harmonics of the diamond dust
andother set can be used to break up the residu (Si, carbon, quartz, etc)
production yes... hey guys.. this is all good stuff...
maybe even ultrasonic + heat
jymmm your onto my 1st plan
you should have a word with les about resonance and stuff..
we will need to.. yes..
Yeah, les would know for sure if acustices will be of any use in this
well kiosk time
hmm thks guys alot of really good stuff for an of topic rant.. ; )
i like dearin with smart ppl no mater what the issue
and soon ill finh my grade 9 typing course.. ;(
Hmmmm.... what if you could crystalize the Si, and the diamonds fall thru somehow
I have no clue how clues the structure of Si and Dimaonds are.
crytstalize like you used to do as a kid with sugar sorta thing
what about co-agulating out the Si and crud .. like they do th purify a dna sample
no clue, just pulling thoughts out of my butt is all
thats what we need now
Jymmm: hope you clean them first
alex_joni Just as clean as tubgirl
lol.. orange juice ;) mmmhmmm
shitty thoughts are easy to spot... they're the brown ones..
miniMess I see you havne't met tubgirl
no.. and thank's i'll pass...
you need to meet her
im sure thre's a story
Jymmm: we should set up a date with her
you found a super date boyz
as i mentioned earlier i have KIDS in the house... ; (
miniMess: it's only virtual
(should be child-safe)
well dont cause any carpul tunnel
"There is a lot of evil-looking things in the world, and you can be sure that somewhere, somehow, someone's taking a picture and posted it on the Internet. Most will make you laugh, and some will make you sick. Very few, though, will make you pluck out your eyes will blaspheming and cursing the ancient gods that gave you sight. Out of those, arose Goaste and Tubgirl. But, unfortunately, as with all things on the cutting edge, it becomes more and more diffi
the EDGE... is a plce you need to visit regularily for very short periods of time... before you go for the weekend. Otherwise... you are going to fall off the EDGE..
and there's no coming back...
nice day...should be scraping paint
* alex_joni is going to bed
uia la mad�
sei registrato ?
sentisti ka spararu a locri oi?
spe ka staiu facendu na cosa, tornu fra 10 minuti
� su tutti i giornali e tg
qui non si puo' parlare italiano
spe che apro un canale..
e ku parrau talianu
e cazzu iu va
Jacky^ is now known as c0s1m0
c0s1m0 is now known as Jacky^