#emc | Logs for 2005-10-16

[00:07:26] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[01:22:12] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh-away
[01:49:34] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[01:49:38] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[01:51:58] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (6 files in 5 dirs): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Sun Oct 16 01:15:01 BST 2005 "
[04:04:52] <K`zan> Interesting, if you use the !RESET pin on the Tiny13, you have created an OTP chip :).
[04:05:05] <K`zan> T2313 it is for now.
[04:10:08] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[04:10:12] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A pats K`zan on the head.
[04:10:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I forgot most of the stuff I learned for atmel now.
[04:10:33] <A-L-P-H-A> been sooo many months.
[05:04:53] <fenn> * fenn mumbles something about south carolina
[05:18:03] <jcolley> grr
[05:18:20] <jcolley> actually, i can't defend it with any conviction
[05:18:33] <jcolley> just passing throught for a few years
[06:47:44] <K`zan> A-L-P-H-A: :-)
[06:48:25] <K`zan> A-L-P-H-A: Working on a single axis driver using an avr for these funky steppers of mine :)
[06:48:48] <K`zan> Get interrupt0 working and then the fun begins :-)
[10:46:21] <K`zan> Night all
[11:20:35] <les> hi yuga
[11:21:19] <les> I did the math for servo/Thiele/Small
[11:21:33] <les> but I nrrd one more thing
[11:21:39] <les> need
[11:21:41] <Yuga> cool cool
[11:21:57] <Yuga> if possible can u please speak in skype?
[11:22:06] <les> I need the formula for radiation reactance
[11:22:10] <les> yeah
[11:22:15] <les> going to skype
[11:22:18] <Yuga> thanks
[11:27:17] <anonimasu> morning
[11:27:28] <ValarQ> mornin
[11:27:54] <anonimasu> I'll be back in a bit
[11:27:58] <anonimasu> :)
[11:28:07] <ValarQ> in one piece you mean?
[11:36:52] <anonimasu> maybe
[11:36:55] <anonimasu> I am picking the mill apart more
[11:37:00] <anonimasu> it's a bit uncertain.
[12:09:04] <ValarQ> anonimasu: do you know if there is any application for handling PLCs in unix?
[12:25:46] <Jacky^> morning
[13:03:41] <cncuser> hi :)
[13:04:32] <cncuser> hi cradek, jepler :)
[13:13:23] <cncuser> fi someone wants to take a look at a rambased (256mb ram) live cd running emc2 (40mb iso). the beta is avaiable for download: http://box.hinternet.at/ctx10b.iso
[13:49:40] <kats> Jacky^ devo parlarti
[13:49:44] <kats> ora
[13:51:35] <kats> non farmi fare colpi di testa inutili
[13:54:45] <kats> ok sapro come fare allora contaci
[13:59:08] <anonimasu> ValarQ: no
[13:59:12] <anonimasu> ValarQ: what kind of plc?
[13:59:37] <ValarQ> my friend that asks got a Mitsubishi
[13:59:42] <anonimasu> nope..
[13:59:47] <anonimasu> and I would get a better plc..
[13:59:50] <anonimasu> non ladder based..
[13:59:51] <anonimasu> :)
[14:00:21] <anonimasu> ladder is a invention from hell :D
[14:00:36] <ValarQ> heh
[14:02:00] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has the spindle in molecules now
[14:02:09] <anonimasu> trying to decide if I should go with a huydralic motor ..
[14:02:17] <anonimasu> they will do 10000rpm without gearing..
[14:02:28] <anonimasu> and provide heaps of torque..
[14:03:28] <anonimasu> ValarQ: I am thinking about running linux and vmware on my workbox so I can use the paralell port for programming the plcs :)
[14:05:42] <ValarQ> ok :)
[14:10:54] <alex_joni> greetings all
[14:11:01] <ValarQ> hello civilian
[14:11:16] <alex_joni> howdy captain
[14:18:47] <anonimasu> yo~
[14:19:30] <alex_joni> hey anders, any luck yet?
[14:19:41] <anonimasu> nope
[14:19:47] <anonimasu> havent been home until 5 this morning
[14:19:57] <alex_joni> I saw that.. I was around last night
[14:20:01] <alex_joni> but you weren't :P
[14:20:32] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[14:22:21] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I thought about wrinting a test driver for something first except for the usc..
[14:22:31] <anonimasu> like a jogwheel on the parport or something like that
[14:22:51] <alex_joni> hmm.. you don't need one for the parport
[14:22:59] <alex_joni> but you could do a module for the jogwheel
[14:23:13] <anonimasu> yep
[14:23:19] <cncuser> has anyone a hint where i can find a good description of how to setup backlash, ferror und period
[14:23:20] <anonimasu> but there wouldnt really be a point would it?
[14:23:36] <alex_joni> cncuser: emc2 ?
[14:23:39] <cncuser> yes
[14:23:48] <anonimasu> alex_joni: for some practice first..
[14:23:52] <alex_joni> period should be set as low as you can
[14:24:09] <alex_joni> but high enough so that you can still use the machine :D
[14:24:10] <cncuser> so i start with 0
[14:24:14] <cncuser> ic
[14:24:16] <alex_joni> nope
[14:24:26] <cncuser> so it depends on the realtime
[14:24:29] <alex_joni> under a certain value it WILL lock the machine
[14:24:33] <alex_joni> yes
[14:24:37] <alex_joni> it's like this:
[14:24:40] <alex_joni> you got a RT thread
[14:24:47] <alex_joni> that runs with that PERIOD
[14:24:56] <cncuser> ok, so i could do some realtime testscripts and calculate a value for period
[14:24:59] <alex_joni> and if the PERIOD is too low, then there is no room for the rest of the linux to run
[14:25:14] <alex_joni> well.. you should basicly start with the default value
[14:25:17] <alex_joni> the one in CVS
[14:25:21] <alex_joni> and mybe tune that a bit
[14:25:26] <alex_joni> what machine do you have?
[14:25:26] <cncuser> ok
[14:25:55] <cncuser> a prototype using a freqmod controller
[14:26:07] <alex_joni> no, I mean the PC
[14:26:13] <alex_joni> what processor / frequency
[14:26:19] <cncuser> oh, a 2.6ghz p4, but
[14:26:38] <alex_joni> not very RT fiendly..
[14:26:39] <cncuser> i do a livecd and want to get the parameters set correctly fpor 800mhz machines too
[14:26:44] <cncuser> why not ?
[14:26:54] <alex_joni> you could start by using the RTAI testsuits
[14:27:02] <cncuser> yes, i thought about that
[14:27:03] <alex_joni> well.. it's a 20-stages pipeline
[14:27:13] <cncuser> aha
[14:27:22] <alex_joni> and usually when that gets borked, a lot of time gets lost to replace the whole flow
[14:27:23] <cncuser> could you tell me what that means ?
[14:27:33] <alex_joni> it's easy..
[14:27:38] <cncuser> *listen*
[14:27:43] <alex_joni> basicly on a computer you have instructions, right?
[14:27:49] <cncuser> :)
[14:27:55] <alex_joni> those instructions should get executed one by one
[14:28:11] <cncuser> yes, soince i have no smp machine
[14:28:17] <alex_joni> but one instruction is a bit more complex than what it only means
[14:28:28] <alex_joni> you need to fetch the instruction from somewhere (data memory)
[14:28:31] <alex_joni> decode it
[14:28:36] <alex_joni> prepare the ALU / FPU
[14:28:52] <alex_joni> execute the instruction (might be more than one cycle for complex operations)
[14:28:57] <alex_joni> store the result
[14:29:01] <alex_joni> etc.
[14:29:06] <alex_joni> so basicly you have a lot of operations
[14:29:20] <cncuser> ok, but it does that with 2.6 ghz so the more instructions should not be too laggy compared to a 800mhz pii or are they ?
[14:29:22] <alex_joni> and to increase performance some guys came up with the idea of pipelines
[14:29:32] <alex_joni> hang on a minute ,)
[14:29:36] <alex_joni> I'll get to there
[14:29:37] <cncuser> ok :, sorry
[14:29:46] <alex_joni> the idea of the pipeline is basicly very neat
[14:29:53] <alex_joni> start decoding on a command
[14:30:03] <alex_joni> then, this command advances, and you get the next one
[14:30:22] <alex_joni> so during the second decode, the first one gets executed
[14:30:25] <alex_joni> and so on..
[14:30:42] <cncuser> ok
[14:30:43] <alex_joni> but the problem with this is: there comes a point when you don't know which way the program goes
[14:30:53] <alex_joni> say you got an IF then else instruction
[14:31:13] <alex_joni> you have no idea in advance what direction the program will follow, but only after the instruction IF is executed
[14:31:19] <cncuser> so it waits till all got calculatet ?
[14:31:26] <alex_joni> so in order not to loose time, a branch prediction is done
[14:31:44] <alex_joni> there is another device inside the cpu that predicts where the program will go
[14:31:52] <alex_joni> and sometimes it is wrong
[14:32:03] <alex_joni> now back to P4
[14:32:09] <alex_joni> it has a 20-stages pipeline,
[14:32:18] <alex_joni> that means there are bits from 20 instructions inside it
[14:32:32] <alex_joni> and when the branchprediction borkes (decides wrong)
[14:32:42] <alex_joni> then you need to replace all those 20 with the correct ones
[14:32:46] <cncuser> all got dumped ?
[14:32:47] <alex_joni> and that takes a LOT of time
[14:32:48] <cncuser> yes, ic
[14:32:55] <alex_joni> exactly
[14:33:04] <alex_joni> on older processors the stages are shorter
[14:33:09] <alex_joni> so less time is thrown away
[14:33:16] <alex_joni> making it a bit more predictible
[14:33:19] <cncuser> hmm, so, what can be done to reduce branchprediction errors ?
[14:33:23] <alex_joni> and with RT that's exactly what you need
[14:33:27] <cncuser> ic
[14:33:47] <alex_joni> a slow but predictible processor is a lot better than a fast unpredictable one
[14:33:47] <cncuser> so, is 800mhz pIII better then 2.6ghz p4 ? :)
[14:33:55] <cncuser> for id switch my develystem then
[14:33:59] <cncuser> :)
[14:34:09] <alex_joni> well.. depends on the metric to evaluate the performance
[14:34:16] <cncuser> dont want to work with erros coming from timingissues
[14:34:25] <alex_joni> if I were to pick then I'd say the P4 is better
[14:34:29] <alex_joni> but
[14:34:39] <alex_joni> the point I wanted to make is:
[14:34:46] <cncuser> and i thing the livecd will not be used on p4 anyways, but older computers not in use anymore
[14:34:50] <alex_joni> say you got a PERIOD of 100 on a 800 PIII
[14:35:05] <alex_joni> that doesn't mean that the PERIOD will be 50 on a 1.6 PIV
[14:35:17] <alex_joni> it might only be a glitch better
[14:35:35] <alex_joni> because the P4 might perform most on the time very good (say even at 50)
[14:35:43] <alex_joni> but once in a while it will perform worse
[14:35:50] <alex_joni> so you need the worst case PERIOD
[14:36:11] <alex_joni> so what I actually mean is: if you double the CPU power it won't get you the double RT performance
[14:36:12] <cncuser> sound logicaly
[14:36:23] <alex_joni> but it will bring you some linux performance
[14:36:30] <alex_joni> which you also need to use the PC ;)
[14:36:39] <alex_joni> you still got non-RT stuff running there
[14:37:06] <alex_joni> UI, interpreter, I/O, (just emc-related), along with all the linux stuff (memory management, drive access, etc.)
[14:37:15] <alex_joni> so a better PC is actually better..
[14:37:29] <alex_joni> now.. back to PERIOD
[14:37:33] <cncuser> well, i thought mhz = same time for more work = more slices of available cpu = would result in a more realtime puter. i should start at the bottom again :)
[14:37:46] <alex_joni> basicly it means that
[14:37:56] <alex_joni> but there are exceptions, as I pointed out above
[14:38:02] <cncuser> yes
[14:38:14] <alex_joni> the main problem is that current development on the PC's includes a lot of tricks
[14:38:24] <alex_joni> which all spoil your RT expectacy
[14:38:59] <alex_joni> if you would have a PIII working at 2GHz, I'd expect it to perform better than a P4 2GHz
[14:39:02] <alex_joni> at least for RT stuff
[14:39:05] <cncuser> so one can say, more(bigger) pipelines = lees rt
[14:39:16] <alex_joni> right
[14:39:23] <alex_joni> but pipeline is only one of the problems
[14:39:33] <cncuser> i take a look at the specs of amd proc right away, lets compare
[14:39:43] <alex_joni> lol.. ok
[14:39:53] <alex_joni> * alex_joni didn't look at processors for a while now
[14:39:59] <alex_joni> I gave up trying to keep up
[14:40:13] <alex_joni> ok. back to PERIOD
[14:40:19] <alex_joni> there are 3 period's inside EMC
[14:40:53] <alex_joni> the main one (the fastest thread) actually gives you the frequency of the pulses your system can output
[14:42:27] <alex_joni> cncuser: still with me?
[14:43:04] <cncuser> yes
[14:43:13] <alex_joni> ok..
[14:43:34] <alex_joni> * alex_joni neads to dissappear for some time
[14:43:40] <alex_joni> I'll be back in half an hour
[14:43:42] <alex_joni> is that ok?
[14:43:59] <alex_joni> maybe you gather some more questions by then..
[14:44:02] <cncuser> ok : ill look at processor specs till tjhen :) thanks for the infoflash :)
[14:44:14] <alex_joni> no problem
[14:44:17] <alex_joni> thanks for the ISO
[14:44:23] <alex_joni> I'm eager to try it out :)
[14:44:26] <cncuser> :) tried it ?
[14:44:30] <cncuser> ok :
[14:44:37] <alex_joni> downloading now..
[14:44:43] <alex_joni> talk to you about it when I get back
[14:44:55] <cncuser> ok, cu lator
[14:47:37] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[14:53:45] <rayh-away> rayh-away is now known as rayh
[15:04:29] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[15:04:33] <alex_joni> hi rayh
[15:04:43] <alex_joni> cncuser: back
[15:05:30] <cncuser> wb alex_joni
[15:05:41] <alex_joni> ty
[15:06:24] <cncuser> i recommend presisng 3 on syslinux prompt.. also i must warn you that i uses swappartitions if it find them (so you loos softwaresuspend data)
[15:06:51] <alex_joni> heh.. take it slowly ;)
[15:06:57] <alex_joni> tell me a bot about it first
[15:07:00] <alex_joni> about
[15:07:05] <alex_joni> a bit
[15:07:10] <alex_joni> darn.. can't type :)
[15:07:24] <cncuser> well, its puppy linux 1.0.4 based, has a rtai kernel and emc2 (cvs about 1 month old)
[15:07:44] <alex_joni> ok.. I think I read a bit about puppy
[15:07:51] <alex_joni> does it need to run off a CD?
[15:07:55] <cncuser> it need 256mb to run emc from ram, and 128 if you install on harddisk. it uses the tkemc fromtendby default
[15:08:04] <alex_joni> or would it be possible to run it off smthg else?
[15:08:06] <cncuser> no, you can install it from withing the livecd
[15:08:16] <cncuser> you can run it with qemu :)
[15:08:18] <alex_joni> nah I meant more like: flash-disk
[15:08:24] <alex_joni> USB-stick
[15:08:27] <alex_joni> smthg like that
[15:08:31] <cncuser> should work
[15:08:35] <alex_joni> emc on a stick
[15:08:35] <cncuser> havent tried
[15:08:35] <alex_joni> :D
[15:08:51] <alex_joni> that would be great .. :)
[15:08:55] <cncuser> maybe i need to compile in some usbdrivers then which are modules now, but should be no big problem
[15:09:09] <alex_joni> right
[15:09:17] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks that would be a nice thing to have
[15:09:22] <cncuser> hehe
[15:09:29] <alex_joni> also.. maybe you want to run the ISO through the mirrors :D
[15:09:43] <alex_joni> I see an austrian server, you from there?
[15:09:47] <cncuser> well, with puppy 1.0.5 the rewriteable cd live iso should work, i may use that too
[15:10:39] <cncuser> yes, im from vienna
[15:10:50] <alex_joni> ohh.. nice, wundersch�ne stadt :)
[15:11:03] <alex_joni> where in vienna?
[15:11:14] <alex_joni> * alex_joni visits vienna once in a while..
[15:11:14] <cncuser> neer the center
[15:11:22] <cncuser> 5 district
[15:11:26] <alex_joni> coo
[15:11:57] <alex_joni> Margareten?
[15:12:04] <cncuser> hahaha ;)
[15:12:09] <alex_joni> what?
[15:12:14] <cncuser> yes, your right
[15:12:29] <alex_joni> ok.. back to puppy
[15:12:32] <cncuser> alex_joni: and youre from ?
[15:12:36] <alex_joni> romania
[15:12:42] <alex_joni> temeswar
[15:12:51] <alex_joni> war fr�her �sterreich-Ungarn ;)
[15:12:54] <cncuser> cool, allmost been there a month ago, bin to bulgaria (black see)
[15:13:01] <alex_joni> varna?
[15:13:11] <cncuser> no, sozopol, burgas
[15:13:18] <alex_joni> burgas is even nicer
[15:13:29] <alex_joni> but from where you are I would go to croatia ;)
[15:13:29] <cncuser> i like the communist campingplaces
[15:13:32] <alex_joni> it's nearer
[15:13:36] <alex_joni> cncuser: lol
[15:13:38] <alex_joni> really?
[15:13:56] <cncuser> iv been to coratia before, we did a roadtrip, slowenia, kroatia, serbia, bulgaria
[15:14:11] <cncuser> we wanted to go to odessa, but have had some bad lluck so needed to return after 3 weeks
[15:14:33] <cncuser> in kroatia weve been to premantura / bula
[15:14:46] <alex_joni> hmm.. not sure where that is
[15:14:55] <alex_joni> I've been to Istria this year (Rovinj)
[15:14:57] <cncuser> the last part of istria
[15:15:01] <cncuser> yes :)
[15:15:07] <cncuser> there
[15:15:10] <alex_joni> that's pula afaik :)
[15:15:15] <alex_joni> not bula :D
[15:15:15] <cncuser> a pula, sorry ;)
[15:15:24] <alex_joni> although that's a very bad word in romanian :D
[15:15:34] <alex_joni> so we prefer pola (the italian name)
[15:15:46] <cncuser> :) hehe
[15:16:01] <alex_joni> I have an SBC running EMC
[15:16:10] <alex_joni> and I always fantasized about running it from a CF
[15:16:17] <cncuser> hmmm
[15:16:29] <alex_joni> it does have a CF slot
[15:16:31] <cncuser> well, cf, meens redboot and stuff
[15:16:37] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/mytoy/HPIM5139.JPG
[15:16:45] <alex_joni> redboot?
[15:17:06] <cncuser> i have linux running on my ipaq for 5 years now, but never looked closly to the mtd stuff
[15:17:40] <alex_joni> afaik it's mounted as ATA into the BIOS
[15:17:54] <cncuser> redboot, has to do with partitioning mtd i assume
[15:18:03] <cncuser> yes, but when linux starts ;)
[15:18:08] <cncuser> its a mtd
[15:18:27] <cncuser> with jffs or cramfs on it
[15:18:29] <alex_joni> ok.. no idea what that is ;) but you might be right
[15:18:41] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is looking at the iso
[15:18:46] <cncuser> Memory Technology Device
[15:18:50] <alex_joni> there are some stuff you could cut out
[15:18:57] <cncuser> yes
[15:19:00] <cncuser> its a beta
[15:19:05] <alex_joni> most of the rtai
[15:19:08] <alex_joni> docs & such
[15:19:12] <cncuser> yes
[15:20:00] <cncuser> i think i can bring it down to 30mb with axis included... but that would be in a week till a month
[15:20:20] <alex_joni> what's that emc-config-selector.sh ?
[15:20:38] <alex_joni> from what I see it builds a list with existing ini's ?
[15:20:39] <cncuser> ups, thats garbage :)
[15:20:51] <alex_joni> heh
[15:20:54] <alex_joni> how so?
[15:21:01] <cncuser> you start emc by klicking on EMC Konfigurationen
[15:21:07] <cncuser> and then just clikcing your ini
[15:21:15] <cncuser> or if you got you own
[15:21:16] <alex_joni> I'm just looking at the ISO for now..
[15:21:20] <cncuser> ok
[15:21:22] <alex_joni> inside it I mean
[15:21:25] <alex_joni> not clickeable :D
[15:21:28] <cncuser> ic
[15:22:09] <cncuser> do a qemu -cdom the.iso -boot d -m 256. its made to click :)
[15:22:26] <alex_joni> usr_cram.fs is the normal puppy stuff?
[15:22:37] <cncuser> well, stript down and slightly modified
[15:22:46] <alex_joni> C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\alex.joni>qemu -cdom the.iso -boot d -m 256
[15:22:46] <alex_joni> Der Befehl "qemu" ist entweder falsch geschrieben oder
[15:22:46] <alex_joni> konnte nicht gefunden werden.
[15:22:50] <alex_joni> ROFL
[15:22:54] <cncuser> hahahahaha
[15:23:11] <alex_joni> not gonna happen ;)
[15:23:13] <cncuser> theres qemu for windows too
[15:23:20] <alex_joni> running linux stuff?
[15:23:24] <alex_joni> * alex_joni pays attention
[15:23:33] <cncuser> now ?, hmm moment
[15:23:46] <alex_joni> http://www.h7.dion.ne.jp/~qemu-win/
[15:24:26] <cncuser> alex_joni: looks good, i cant try, i dont have windows
[15:26:02] <cncuser> http://www.oszoo.org/ftp/qemu/win32/release/QemuInstall-0.7.2.exe
[15:27:01] <cncuser> alex_joni: when its not driven with3, it boots on my p4 within 1 minute into emc... i love it :) puppy iss the fastest
[15:27:22] <cncuser> if without harddisk it takes 10 seconds more
[15:27:30] <alex_joni> what do you mean by: when its not driven with3 ?
[15:27:50] <cncuser> a boot option to not search for a harddisk and place a datafile on it
[15:27:57] <cncuser> or no, thats not true
[15:28:07] <cncuser> it lets you sleect the harddisk or choose non at all
[15:28:22] <alex_joni> I see
[15:30:13] <alex_joni> ok.. qemu seems to work
[15:30:31] <alex_joni> now.. what's the magic incantation to try that iso?
[15:31:12] <cncuser> hmm, i dont know has this qemu a gui ?
[15:31:29] <cncuser> if not its qemu -cdrom the.iso -boot d -m 256
[15:31:32] <alex_joni> not that I've seen
[15:37:42] <alex_joni> cooltoolix
[15:37:44] <alex_joni> beta release
[15:37:49] <cncuser> :)
[15:38:12] <cncuser> ijm thinking about the title: "puppy, sit"
[15:38:26] <cncuser> for a good puppy makes sit within a predictable time, ;)
[15:40:07] <alex_joni> yay
[15:40:15] <alex_joni> I see the emc2 splash screen
[15:40:20] <cncuser> and then ?
[15:40:31] <alex_joni> wait
[15:40:38] <cncuser> its emulated ;)
[15:40:54] <cncuser> on my p4 2.6 it starts after 1,5 seconds or so :)
[15:41:28] <alex_joni> doesn't seem to run
[15:41:33] <cncuser> hmmm
[15:41:39] <cncuser> here it does, in qemu
[15:41:45] <cncuser> what cpu ?
[15:42:12] <cncuser> did you give qemu 256 mb ram ? (-m 256)
[15:42:19] <alex_joni> centrino 1.4 GHz
[15:42:24] <alex_joni> so that should be enough
[15:42:25] <alex_joni> I did
[15:42:27] <cncuser> yes
[15:42:29] <cncuser> hmmm
[15:42:42] <alex_joni> running emc from console, to see what happens
[15:42:49] <cncuser> i have tried it on a few computers and qemu unde rlinux, dunno
[15:43:21] <alex_joni> ahh.. now
[15:43:23] <alex_joni> tkemc is up
[15:43:30] <cncuser> well
[15:43:39] <cncuser> maybe qemu under windows is not that fast
[15:43:53] <alex_joni> it really is slow ;)
[15:43:58] <cncuser> yes :)
[15:44:01] <alex_joni> but it works :D
[15:44:12] <cncuser> you may trie it native if you dare :)
[15:44:26] <alex_joni> what does that mean?
[15:44:27] <cncuser> if you have just ntfs partitions you cant loose anything :)
[15:44:36] <alex_joni> I have a vfat iirc
[15:44:36] <cncuser> burn the iso and boot it right away
[15:44:41] <alex_joni> ahh.. sure
[15:44:51] <alex_joni> I have some ext3 partition ;)
[15:44:52] <alex_joni> too
[15:45:01] <cncuser> then you can loose 2456mb of vfat
[15:45:07] <cncuser> 256
[15:45:09] <cncuser> aha
[15:46:13] <cncuser> well, if you dont use swsuspend, or are totally out of diskspace its save to run the iso
[15:47:05] <alex_joni> no swsuspend on linux
[15:47:24] <cncuser> then its perfectly save
[15:47:34] <alex_joni> safe ;)
[15:47:39] <cncuser> yes :)
[15:48:49] <alex_joni> nice splash on emc2 ;)
[15:49:03] <cncuser> hmm ?
[15:49:20] <alex_joni> heh.. just joking ;)
[15:49:20] <alex_joni> I did that :P
[15:49:40] <alex_joni> I think timing is off..
[15:49:47] <alex_joni> the splashscreen just sits there..
[15:49:49] <alex_joni> very long
[15:49:55] <cncuser> hehe
[15:50:26] <cncuser> the splashscreen look cute
[15:50:32] <alex_joni> but I like the background too
[15:50:55] <alex_joni> got mc on it?
[15:51:19] <cncuser> its the motor and clutch of a puch maxi 2 gears automatic :)
[15:51:33] <cncuser> no, but rox
[15:51:49] <cncuser> a gui filemanager
[15:52:50] <alex_joni> I see.. it looks nice
[15:52:59] <alex_joni> and it's great that you can try it out like this
[15:53:00] <alex_joni> :D
[15:54:51] <alex_joni> I decreased PERIOD, and now I can play with tkemc
[15:54:58] <alex_joni> obviously I get following errors
[15:55:09] <alex_joni> as it can't generate pulses fast enough
[15:55:17] <alex_joni> ok.. back to your questions:
[15:55:50] <cncuser> :)
[15:55:51] <alex_joni> what was that? period, backlash & ferror?
[15:55:58] <cncuser> yes :)
[15:56:04] <alex_joni> I think period is clear.. right?
[15:56:20] <cncuser> yes, the maximum time a task can get done
[15:56:36] <alex_joni> right
[15:56:55] <alex_joni> and the most basic task is to generate stepping pulses
[15:57:12] <alex_joni> so the period directly affects the number of pulses emc can output
[15:58:19] <alex_joni> ok.. now backlash
[15:58:29] <alex_joni> that depends on the physical setup of your machine
[15:58:53] <alex_joni> if you got an axis with backlash, you need to measure that and enter it in the ini, so that emc compensates on that
[15:58:58] <alex_joni> what does that mean?
[15:59:21] <alex_joni> on every direction ivertion of the axis, emc will first move the axis with the value you entered
[15:59:31] <cncuser> ok
[15:59:40] <alex_joni> inversion not ivertion
[15:59:57] <alex_joni> so that's a parameter that depends on the machine
[16:00:02] <alex_joni> then ferror
[16:00:06] <alex_joni> following error
[16:00:35] <alex_joni> it's the distance (the biggest distance) between commanded and actual position that is reported as an error
[16:00:44] <alex_joni> here you have 2 cases
[16:00:46] <cncuser> sorry, telephone,m brbr
[16:00:51] <alex_joni> ok.. waiting
[16:01:34] <miniMess> good mornin all ; )
[16:01:45] <alex_joni> hello
[16:02:48] <alex_joni> miniMess used to be dmess ?
[16:03:35] <miniMess> hmm yes... i guess minimess is still powered up..
[16:03:58] <alex_joni> ok then ;)
[16:04:47] <miniMess> it had been powered up so long when i moved it last week i couldn't remember my login
[16:05:06] <alex_joni> lol
[16:05:28] <cncuser> ok, back
[16:05:34] <miniMess> its the linux box
[16:05:43] <alex_joni> cncuser: back to ferror
[16:05:49] <alex_joni> I said there are 2 cases
[16:05:53] <alex_joni> 1. servo system
[16:05:56] <alex_joni> 2. stepper system
[16:06:01] <cncuser> in my case a stepper
[16:06:12] <alex_joni> actually the main difference is closed-loop vs open-loop
[16:06:18] <alex_joni> ok.. stepper
[16:06:21] <alex_joni> open-loop
[16:06:34] <alex_joni> you have a commanded position, and an actual position
[16:07:00] <cncuser> yes, and no feedback
[16:07:23] <alex_joni_> huh.. lost link
[16:07:28] <alex_joni_> what was the last you've seen?
[16:07:31] <cncuser> :)
[16:07:36] <cncuser> <alex_joni> you have a commanded position, and an actual position
[16:07:36] <cncuser> <cncuser> yes, and no feedback
[16:08:46] <alex_joni_> right
[16:08:55] <alex_joni_> so commanded position comes from the motion controller
[16:09:12] <alex_joni_> and actual position in this case is the actual number of pulses that could be generated
[16:09:47] <alex_joni_> so if there's a difference between the two it means that ferror is too tight set, and you get a following error
[16:10:11] <alex_joni_> so.. it's only in software, that means that emc needs to go with a certain speed, but the pulse generating can't keep up
[16:11:25] <alex_joni_> got it?
[16:11:27] <cncuser> ok, so if i do a F20 or something it should not be visable because there would not likley be a pulse generation beeing missed/delayed
[16:11:43] <alex_joni_> right
[16:12:08] <alex_joni_> but if your machine has a very big PERIOD, then the above F20 might generate a joint following error
[16:13:03] <cncuser> hmmm
[16:13:06] <alex_joni_> as it needs to output a certain train pulse to achieve the F20
[16:13:11] <cncuser> clear
[16:13:18] <cncuser> if period is set to a sekond ;)
[16:13:21] <cncuser> c
[16:13:24] <alex_joni_> right
[16:14:22] <miniMess> should the accel /decell not handle the ramp up and ramp down process
[16:14:40] <alex_joni_> yes.. I wanted to keep things simple
[16:15:00] <alex_joni_> so probably it will start accelerating, and then get to a certain speed where the pulse generating can't keep up
[16:15:02] <alex_joni_> and it will ferror
[16:15:26] <alex_joni_> cncuser: but it's a bit more complicated than this
[16:15:34] <alex_joni_> there are basicly 2 parameters for ferror
[16:15:35] <cncuser> yes
[16:15:39] <alex_joni_> ferror and min_ferror
[16:15:47] <alex_joni_> one is compared at zero speed
[16:15:54] <alex_joni_> and the other at maximum speed
[16:16:02] <alex_joni_> and linear interpolation between
[16:16:13] <alex_joni_> so that at high speed you might fall a bit behind
[16:16:22] <alex_joni_> but when the machine stops it needs to be accurate
[16:16:32] <cncuser> my prototype thingy here does the following. it goes a bit farer then commanded and then gets back and is allmost where it should be. thats the behavior i related to ferror and stuff. i try to play with the values
[16:16:58] <alex_joni_> strange
[16:17:05] <alex_joni_> do you have backlash set up?
[16:17:16] <cncuser> well,
[16:17:31] <miniMess> can we monitor lead and lag as opposed te just error???
[16:17:57] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ thinks the guy to be bugged about this just joined
[16:17:58] <alex_joni_> :D
[16:18:01] <alex_joni_> hi john
[16:18:04] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich hides
[16:18:10] <alex_joni_> lol
[16:18:10] <jmkasunich> hi
[16:18:21] <cncuser> BACKLASH = 0.000
[16:18:24] <alex_joni_> my hands hurt.. :D
[16:18:34] <alex_joni_> cncuser: ok, then we can rule that out
[16:18:39] <cncuser> well, t5he backlash would be the "airtime" on the spindle
[16:18:46] <jmkasunich> what is the issue?
[16:18:54] <alex_joni_> <cncuser> my prototype thingy here does the following. it goes a bit farer then commanded and then gets back and is allmost where it should be. thats the behavior i related to ferror and stuff. i try to play with the values<cncuser> my prototype thingy here does the following. it goes a bit farer then commanded and then gets back and is allmost where it should be. thats the behavior i related to ferror and stuff. i try to play with the values
[16:18:56] <miniMess> in pos' window looks too big..
[16:19:25] <jmkasunich> emc1 or emc2 or bdi4?
[16:19:36] <cncuser> emc2, cvs 1 month old
[16:19:41] <kats> hello
[16:19:51] <cncuser> hi kats
[16:20:26] <jmkasunich> did you see the exchange on the list with Oscar Dalem? he reported a similar problem, and I commented about what I thought was happening
[16:20:46] <cncuser> jmkasunich, no, i take a look at the archives
[16:21:02] <jmkasunich> it was just this week
[16:21:08] <cncuser> cool
[16:21:20] <alex_joni_> hello kats
[16:21:30] <kats> hello A-L-P-H-A
[16:21:42] <kats> hello alex_joni
[16:22:22] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[16:23:22] <kats> Jacky^ hello
[16:23:57] <cncuser> hmm, accell, ok
[16:24:30] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: this was that 8 pulses, 11 pulses, 3 the other direction issue?
[16:24:51] <cncuser> yses, i think, im reading that
[16:25:01] <Jacky^> hello
[16:25:09] <jmkasunich> yes
[16:36:34] <kats> Jacky^ devo parlarti subito
[16:36:43] <cncuser> alex_joni: thanks again, im going to leave. cu
[16:36:50] <cncuser> by folks )
[16:37:26] <alex_joni> Jacky^ is in trouble :D
[16:37:39] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ busy..
[16:39:32] <alex_joni> so.. who tried the puppy thing out?
[16:41:59] <miniMess> what puppy thing??
[16:42:29] <alex_joni> cncuser did a minimal iso (about 40MB) with emc2 in it
[16:42:51] <alex_joni> http://box.hinternet.at/ctx10b.iso
[16:58:39] <alex_joni> hey Jymmm
[16:58:53] <alex_joni> you wanted to try emc2 out? didn't you?
[16:58:56] <Jymmm> hola
[16:59:01] <alex_joni> [18:07] <alex_joni> cncuser did a minimal iso (about 40MB) with emc2 in it
[16:59:02] <alex_joni> [18:07] <alex_joni> http://box.hinternet.at/ctx10b.iso
[16:59:15] <alex_joni> just burn the ISO, and it runs live..
[16:59:20] <alex_joni> no need to install, etc
[16:59:58] <kats> hello alex
[17:00:03] <kats> hello all
[17:00:11] <alex_joni> hello kats
[17:00:19] <miniMess> i may try it as well..
[17:00:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni tried it in qemu
[17:00:36] <alex_joni> looks nice
[17:01:26] <kats> Jacky^ is very busy foreberfor me
[17:01:31] <kats> forever
[17:01:43] <kats> ah ah
[17:01:45] <alex_joni> dump him
[17:01:47] <alex_joni> lol
[17:04:06] <Jymmm> dump him?
[17:04:17] <alex_joni> Jymmm: not clear enough?
[17:04:32] <Jymmm> wouldn't that mean kats is Jacky^'s gf?
[17:04:45] <alex_joni> hmm.. smthg like that
[17:05:01] <Jymmm> or bf, whatever
[17:05:08] <alex_joni> rofl
[17:05:22] <alex_joni> sure sounds like that..
[17:05:26] <alex_joni> Jacky^ has never time for her :D
[17:06:02] <Jymmm> ah
[17:06:16] <kats> bye
[17:06:17] <Jymmm> kats how long have you and Jacky^ been going together?
[17:06:23] <kats> :-(
[17:06:31] <alex_joni> maybe we got it all wrong
[17:06:44] <alex_joni> kats: I appologize if that is the case
[17:07:13] <kats> Jacky^ quarrel whit me
[17:12:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is having an creative moment
[17:14:50] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[17:14:58] <alex_joni_away> * alex_joni_away will be back in half an hour
[17:53:45] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[18:11:32] <alex_joni> cradek: you around chris?
[18:18:53] <Jymmm> alex_joni wheres the pic of you menaing creative?
[18:18:57] <Jymmm> being
[18:19:10] <alex_joni> it's an email
[18:19:19] <Jymmm> oh, nm
[18:19:20] <alex_joni> and it'being composed as we speak :P
[18:35:58] <alex_joni> hey Martin
[18:38:21] <Imperator_> Hi Alex, back again !!
[18:38:26] <alex_joni> yup
[18:39:15] <Imperator_> congratulation for your nomination, i wanted to do the same, but i wanted to ask you before
[18:40:06] <alex_joni> heh, thanks
[18:40:39] <Imperator_> how was it in sweden ?
[18:40:55] <Jymmm> * Jymmm first duty as member of the baord would be to toss alex_joni in a dunking tank just like at the carnical!
[18:41:05] <Jymmm> carnival
[18:41:18] <alex_joni> I just got out of the water
[18:41:24] <alex_joni> so..I wouldn't mind
[18:41:35] <Jymmm> who said anything about water?
[18:41:43] <alex_joni> what kind of tank?
[18:42:11] <Jymmm> porta poty recovery tank
[18:42:56] <Jymmm> alex_joni "Can you feel the love?"
[18:42:59] <alex_joni> whatever
[18:43:01] <alex_joni> sure can
[18:43:06] <Jymmm> =)
[18:43:14] <alex_joni> it's ..magic ;)
[18:48:04] <jepler> neat, with "ctx10b" running in qemu, tkemc pops right up...
[18:48:17] <alex_joni> jepler: yes
[18:48:19] <alex_joni> same here ;)
[18:49:05] <alex_joni> jepler: is it running ok?
[18:49:23] <jepler> I dunno, I didn't actually try to exit estop even
[18:49:44] <alex_joni> heh.. it runs a bit slow here
[18:49:50] <alex_joni> the RT part, but the interface runs great
[18:50:09] <jepler> it wasn't bad here. about 3 minutes from starting qemu to seeing tkemc, I think
[18:50:27] <alex_joni> the difference is that I have doze-qemu :P
[18:51:42] <alex_joni> jepler: same here, the tricky part was when actually using emc
[18:51:49] <alex_joni> switching on, and homing takes a while here
[18:54:32] <jepler> it's jogging .. slowly...
[18:54:38] <jepler> X 0.0088
[18:54:40] <anonimasu> hm I just figured out how to mount the toolchanger carousel..
[18:55:59] <anonimasu> ah well, more importantly I've got the bearings in a box..
[18:56:03] <alex_joni> you did? :P
[18:56:06] <anonimasu> going to oreder new ones spec:ed for 10krpm
[18:56:11] <anonimasu> order tomorrow..
[18:56:19] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:56:31] <anonimasu> so that I only need one axis of motion..
[18:56:58] <Jymmm> bearings in a box in a sock burried under rocks by the fox with some lox
[18:57:05] <anonimasu> yep
[18:57:18] <jepler> ctx10b looks nice. now if I can figure out a way to make axis small enough that he'll add it...
[18:57:24] <anonimasu> I cant wait until I get the spindle back togther
[18:57:36] <alex_joni> jepler: he said he'll put axis on the next version
[18:57:58] <jepler> The size of axis was a concern, since it requires python and that involves a lot of files
[18:58:06] <alex_joni> this is still a beta version..
[18:58:08] <Jymmm> FYI... Charcoal lighter fluid works great at dissolving lithium grease.
[18:58:16] <alex_joni> Jymmm: nice
[18:59:18] <Jymmm> 64oz unscented: $4, 15oz carb/engine degreaser/brake cleaner: stinky and $6
[19:01:01] <Imperator_> alex_joni: I suggest, to put your email about HAL Pin names into a new wiki page
[19:01:24] <alex_joni> Imperator_: I thought about that
[19:01:29] <alex_joni> but I dropped that idea
[19:01:30] <Imperator_> if it is in a file in cvs, nobody will edit it
[19:01:43] <alex_joni> only the ones who actually do some developing
[19:01:44] <Imperator_> why ?
[19:01:52] <alex_joni> and that's the people I want to edit it
[19:02:18] <Imperator_> i think it will be the same in a wiki page
[19:02:28] <alex_joni> nope, anybody will change the wiki..
[19:02:41] <Imperator_> and maybe that wiki page grows
[19:02:47] <alex_joni> that won't mean that they a. have a clue or b. are willing to implement what they have proposed there
[19:03:12] <Imperator_> hm, ok
[19:04:14] <Imperator_> the Pin names point me to another problem, do you have a solutian for the problem with the hardware counters ?
[19:04:34] <alex_joni> what kind of hardware counters?
[19:05:16] <Imperator_> that ones who are set to zero or a other value, when they reach the reference point
[19:05:31] <alex_joni> right.. this doesn't address that
[19:05:40] <alex_joni> but still.. we need to see what happens ;)
[19:05:41] <Imperator_> then the PID sees a big error and it moves very fast then
[19:06:02] <alex_joni> no PID during homing..
[19:06:07] <alex_joni> so that might not be an issue
[19:06:12] <alex_joni> gotta try it out sometime
[19:07:29] <Imperator_> ore we use the ability of some counters, to save the position and then we read that position and we make a ofset in emc. so PID sees nothing
[19:07:56] <alex_joni> this week I wanna finish the STG driver
[19:08:11] <alex_joni> including the index pulse stuff, so I'll have a look at it then
[19:08:16] <Imperator_> today i will finish my breakout boards
[19:08:22] <alex_joni> cool
[19:08:51] <Imperator_> the problem is that i dont have the index pulse on my siemens cards, so i cant test that
[19:17:45] <cncuser> rehi
[19:17:58] <alex_joni> hi
[19:23:57] <alex_joni> jepler: still around?
[19:24:24] <cradek> alex_joni: I'm here now, I see you paged earlier
[19:24:38] <alex_joni> yeah, wanted to talk to you about smthg
[19:24:43] <alex_joni> but I sent it to the dev list
[19:25:22] <cradek> was it that long message that I only scanned?
[19:26:06] <alex_joni> yup
[19:26:07] <alex_joni> :)
[19:26:21] <cradek> well I agree completely with whatever it is that it says
[19:26:23] <alex_joni> probably nothing you're interested in right now..
[19:26:31] <alex_joni> lol... yeah
[19:26:45] <miniMess> bon jour.. once more
[19:28:00] <alex_joni> bon jour, ca va?
[19:28:52] <miniMess> any brainiacs have any thoughts on diamond separation?? a friend dropped off a sac of high grade south african ore yesterday.
[19:29:10] <cradek> not our area of expertise
[19:29:37] <miniMess> i know but im lookin for outside the box thinkin'
[19:29:54] <cradek> oh I have that
[19:30:00] <anonimasu> miniMess: have somone with the right experience do it?
[19:30:18] <miniMess> they all want to use caustis dissolution and thats sooo deadly... i have kids in the house
[19:30:32] <alex_joni> use big hammers
[19:30:41] <alex_joni> and pound the hell out of it
[19:30:47] <anonimasu> http://www.debeerscanada.com/files_2/mineral_processing_1.html
[19:30:55] <miniMess> the dudes who do it now gave this to me to do something different to it
[19:31:39] <miniMess> different as in lookin for a leap not a crawl to the next level
[19:34:33] <miniMess> its currently in crushed fine gravel to powder... in sunlight you can see visible diamonds..
[19:35:05] <miniMess> if you rub your hands thru it a few times you come up sparkin'
[19:35:27] <anonimasu> hm..
[19:35:30] <anonimasu> x-raying for them..
[19:35:46] <miniMess> im thinkin of a static carpet type thingy
[19:36:00] <anonimasu> static?
[19:36:14] <miniMess> i havent got an x-ray machine in the arsenal ...yet
[19:36:30] <miniMess> electrostatic
[19:36:45] <alex_joni> not sure that will bring you anything
[19:36:49] <anonimasu> since that's diamonds you have why dont you ahve a machine like that..
[19:37:00] <miniMess> generator from the furnace air cleaner
[19:37:08] <anonimasu> ;)
[19:37:20] <anonimasu> alex_joni: what wont?
[19:37:31] <miniMess> like what??? that
[19:37:33] <alex_joni> electrostatic
[19:37:37] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:37:39] <alex_joni> what will that attract?
[19:37:40] <alex_joni> dust
[19:37:46] <alex_joni> mixed with diamond
[19:38:06] <miniMess> good the diamonds will stay on the lower moving carpet
[19:38:36] <anonimasu> I doubt that will work..
[19:38:43] <miniMess> oppositely charged
[19:38:59] <miniMess> if worked on doubt before
[19:39:06] <miniMess> ive
[19:39:29] <miniMess> ok heres another thing...
[19:40:46] <miniMess> sand is mosly silicon... can i eletro - depossite it on an electrode.. away from the diamonds
[19:41:16] <alex_joni> try melting the whole thing
[19:41:54] <miniMess> could do.. we have a forge..
[19:42:10] <miniMess> how do we tap it
[19:42:16] <Jymmm> now ash and diamonds =)
[19:42:18] <anonimasu> but you would still have to separate diamonds from glas.s.
[19:42:28] <miniMess> si
[19:42:36] <anonimasu> what?
[19:42:47] <miniMess> yes... glass and diamonds
[19:43:08] <anonimasu> and how do you determinate what's what?
[19:43:10] <miniMess> one good smack should do it
[19:43:37] <miniMess> specific gravity.. and index of refraction
[19:43:59] <miniMess> when you see diamonds YOU KNOW IT
[19:44:05] <miniMess> its like gold..
[19:44:29] <Jymmm> bottom of page... http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Si/key.html
[19:44:56] <anonimasu> I am guessing you could float it to make sheets..
[19:45:11] <anonimasu> and use a laser to scan the surface..
[19:45:30] <anonimasu> or well shining a pattern through it..
[19:46:10] <miniMess> hey dudes.. this whouldnt just refine diamonds... it could make cheaper silicon solar cells...
[19:46:55] <anonimasu> you could use a high res camera to look for distortions of the pattern..
[19:47:00] <Jymmm> how much of it is diamonds and si (percentage) ?
[19:47:30] <alex_joni> might probably cost more than the whole thing is worth
[19:47:31] <alex_joni> =))
[19:48:08] <miniMess> from the look of this sample i figure in 1 kg of ore there are probably 5-10 grams of diamond dust
[19:48:16] <anonimasu> alex_joni: you are talking about diamonds..
[19:48:44] <Jymmm> miniMess got grafite?
[19:48:49] <Jymmm> graphite
[19:48:54] <anonimasu> but the chemical approach might be cheaper.
[19:49:10] <miniMess> have si... and solid carbon blocks too
[19:50:20] <miniMess> electric furnace i have .. but no temps.
[19:51:01] <Jymmm> what about ultrasonic transducer to break up everything else but the diamonds
[19:51:21] <anonimasu> Jymmm: how much crack did you take this morning ;)
[19:51:26] <Jymmm> </pull_out_of_ass>
[19:51:36] <anonimasu> Jymmm: lots?
[19:51:39] <anonimasu> ;D
[19:51:46] <miniMess> i thought of ultrasonic break-up and centrifuge drain
[19:52:14] <miniMess> its a good flippin idea...
[19:52:53] <Jymmm> whats the density of diamonds compared to Si ?
[19:53:15] <miniMess> ata sertain frequency the ultrasound will start to vibrate the diamonds out
[19:53:31] <anonimasu> how are you going to generate that kind of sound?
[19:53:33] <miniMess> higher... consideraby
[19:53:46] <Jymmm> miniMess at least 50% ?
[19:53:49] <miniMess> big flippin speakers
[19:54:01] <Jymmm> piezo
[19:54:03] <miniMess> i would think so..
[19:54:12] <miniMess> piezo yes..
[19:54:40] <Jymmm> les would probably be the best one to come up with an idea
[19:54:49] <anonimasu> hm, I think there are special speakers that's able to produce that kind of sound..
[19:55:14] <Jymmm> anonimasu you've never seen an ultrasonic jewlery cleaner before?
[19:55:34] <anonimasu> Jymmm: no, but I doubt big speakers are a good way to do it
[19:55:44] <Jymmm> anonimasu why not?
[19:55:59] <miniMess> its the jewelery idea... yes..
[19:56:02] <anonimasu> http://www.fuji-piezo.com/prodpiez.htm
[19:56:15] <miniMess> just bigger...badder
[19:56:29] <miniMess> bustin' up bigger stuff
[19:56:46] <anonimasu> ah well..
[19:56:58] <anonimasu> Jymmm: because there are stuff that would do the job better.
[19:57:07] <Jymmm> anonimasu such as?
[19:57:27] <anonimasu> such as the stuff I just posted..
[19:57:33] <cncuser> use pressureair in cans, a horn and a small servo to do the pressing of the gobutton :)
[19:57:40] <miniMess> guys i didnt wanna start a ruckas here...
[19:57:49] <anonimasu> I am assuming you want to do production of this stuff..
[19:57:50] <Jymmm> you didnt
[19:58:07] <anonimasu> or atleast make it in a production env..
[19:58:12] <Jymmm> anonimasu but using piezo you can hit/avoid the harmonics of the diamond dust
[19:58:53] <Jymmm> andother set can be used to break up the residu (Si, carbon, quartz, etc)
[19:58:54] <miniMess> production yes... hey guys.. this is all good stuff...
[19:59:24] <Jymmm> maybe even ultrasonic + heat
[19:59:29] <miniMess> jymmm your onto my 1st plan
[19:59:32] <anonimasu> you should have a word with les about resonance and stuff..
[19:59:45] <miniMess> we will need to.. yes..
[19:59:55] <Jymmm> Yeah, les would know for sure if acustices will be of any use in this
[20:00:00] <Jymmm> (sp)
[20:00:11] <miniMess> good try
[20:00:11] <anonimasu> well kiosk time
[20:00:17] <anonimasu> brb
[20:00:49] <miniMess> hmm thks guys alot of really good stuff for an of topic rant.. ; )
[20:01:12] <miniMess> i like dearin with smart ppl no mater what the issue
[20:01:50] <miniMess> and soon ill finh my grade 9 typing course.. ;(
[20:02:46] <Jymmm> Hmmmm.... what if you could crystalize the Si, and the diamonds fall thru somehow
[20:03:14] <Jymmm> I have no clue how clues the structure of Si and Dimaonds are.
[20:03:39] <Jymmm> crytstalize like you used to do as a kid with sugar sorta thing
[20:03:49] <miniMess> what about co-agulating out the Si and crud .. like they do th purify a dna sample
[20:04:11] <Jymmm> no clue, just pulling thoughts out of my butt is all
[20:04:29] <miniMess> thats what we need now
[20:04:48] <alex_joni> Jymmm: hope you clean them first
[20:05:05] <Jymmm> alex_joni Just as clean as tubgirl
[20:05:20] <alex_joni> lol.. orange juice ;) mmmhmmm
[20:05:29] <Jymmm> ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[20:05:30] <miniMess> shitty thoughts are easy to spot... they're the brown ones..
[20:05:57] <Jymmm> miniMess I see you havne't met tubgirl
[20:06:26] <miniMess> no.. and thank's i'll pass...
[20:06:36] <alex_joni> you need to meet her
[20:06:38] <miniMess> im sure thre's a story
[20:06:53] <alex_joni> Jymmm: we should set up a date with her
[20:06:54] <alex_joni> :D
[20:07:20] <miniMess> you found a super date boyz
[20:08:17] <miniMess> as i mentioned earlier i have KIDS in the house... ; (
[20:09:55] <alex_joni> miniMess: it's only virtual
[20:10:26] <alex_joni> miniMess: http://www.underculture.co.za/shorts_taste.htm (should be child-safe)
[20:10:34] <miniMess> well dont cause any carpul tunnel
[20:11:06] <alex_joni> "There is a lot of evil-looking things in the world, and you can be sure that somewhere, somehow, someone's taking a picture and posted it on the Internet. Most will make you laugh, and some will make you sick. Very few, though, will make you pluck out your eyes will blaspheming and cursing the ancient gods that gave you sight. Out of those, arose Goaste and Tubgirl. But, unfortunately, as with all things on the cutting edge, it becomes more and more diffi
[20:16:42] <Jacky^> -.-
[20:18:45] <miniMess> the EDGE... is a plce you need to visit regularily for very short periods of time... before you go for the weekend. Otherwise... you are going to fall off the EDGE..
[20:19:17] <miniMess> and there's no coming back...
[20:41:46] <les> hi all
[20:44:06] <anonimasu> hey
[20:44:39] <les> nice day...should be scraping paint
[20:44:45] <les> or somwthing
[20:48:47] <anonimasu> scraping paint=
[20:48:50] <anonimasu> why?
[20:59:38] <anonimasu> :9
[21:08:16] <alex_joni> ok guys
[21:08:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is going to bed
[21:08:22] <alex_joni> night
[21:50:45] <cosimo> jack
[21:50:46] <Jacky^> hello cosimo
[21:50:57] <cosimo> uia la mad�
[21:50:59] <cosimo> trasia
[21:51:04] <Jacky^> query ..
[21:51:23] <Jacky^> sei registrato ?
[21:51:30] <Jacky^> il nick
[21:51:36] <cosimo> sentisti ka spararu a locri oi?
[21:51:41] <Jacky^> yes
[21:51:56] <cosimo> mmah!
[21:52:19] <cosimo> spe ka staiu facendu na cosa, tornu fra 10 minuti
[21:52:22] <Jacky^> � su tutti i giornali e tg
[21:52:25] <cosimo> afk
[22:14:47] <cosimo> allura
[22:14:52] <cosimo> risulvisti
[22:16:37] <cosimo> ?
[22:17:19] <Jacky^> ciccio..
[22:17:27] <Jacky^> qui non si puo' parlare italiano
[22:17:28] <cosimo> o
[22:17:38] <Jacky^> spe che apro un canale..
[22:17:42] <cosimo> e ku parrau talianu
[22:17:52] <cosimo> e cazzu iu va
[22:18:05] <Jacky^> joina #jackroom
[22:18:08] <Jacky^> vai ..
[23:50:33] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as c0s1m0
[23:51:12] <c0s1m0> c0s1m0 is now known as Jacky^
[23:53:50] <anonimasu> hmm