#emc | Logs for 2005-10-15

[00:06:59] <K`zan> anonimasu: 1/4-20
[00:17:13] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. We're having issues with an attack. We're restoring a previous services backup. Please bear with us.
[00:29:12] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. As you are now aware, services are back up. This would be a good time to change your channel password if you can. Please check with first level support (/stats p) if you need help, and bear with us, as we might be a bit bogged down. Thank.
[00:32:59] <lilo> [Global Notice] This would be a good time to mention that freenode needs help with out 'freenode-registry' project, which would certainly help us avoid some compromises and recover more effectively. If you're interested in helping out, stop by #freenode-registry. I may have spotty availability for the next few hours or day, but will want to talk to you personally. Thanks.
[00:36:11] <anonimasu> K`zan: normal threads or a real screw?
[00:37:32] <lilo> [Global Notice] (and by the way, that channel name is #freenode-registry without the dots, thanks!)
[00:44:14] <K`zan> anonimasu: Err, not sure what you mean, it is a 12" length of 1/4"-20 "all thread" rod I picked up from Home Depot. Normal threads and a real screw (esp at those prices :-).
[00:45:39] <K`zan> 1/4" 20TPI threads
[00:56:42] <anonimasu> hm, no idea..
[00:56:52] <anonimasu> normal threads.. such as fasteners..
[00:57:28] <anonimasu> err as used..
[00:57:48] <anonimasu> thoose threads are crap.. :/
[00:58:03] <anonimasu> they take away 40% of the torque..
[00:59:08] <K`zan> Take away torque? How?
[00:59:17] <anonimasu> friction..
[00:59:18] <fenn> yeah you need precision ground ballscrews made from solid silicon carbide
[00:59:22] <K`zan> This was a bust :-( : http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/CNC/videocamview1with+2lens.png
[00:59:33] <anonimasu> not really, but proper threads..
[00:59:47] <K`zan> fenn: I might need them, but this is what I can afford to work with for the moment...
[00:59:51] <K`zan> :-(
[00:59:56] <K`zan> Yeah, it sucks.
[01:00:01] <fenn> rolled threaded rod is fine
[01:00:18] <K`zan> I got an idea of making another and then using the drill press for the Z axis...
[01:00:40] <fenn> how will you automate the quill movement?
[01:00:46] <K`zan> Still need a driver though, unless I want to try to program the AVR to handle it, which strikes me as a BIG job.
[01:00:51] <anonimasu> yeah, but not the threads used for fastening stuff..
[01:01:06] <K`zan> Same device would work for the quill, just replace the handle with the stepper ?!?
[01:01:18] <fenn> anonimasu she is using steppers scrapped from floppy drives
[01:01:36] <K`zan> First off get rid of, or at least reduce the tension on the quill (heluva spring on that).
[01:02:17] <anonimasu> fenn: I can see the budget perspective, but I've tried running with fastener thread in a prototype at work..
[01:02:28] <fenn> you will need some sort of spring to take up the backlash in the quill rack and pinion
[01:02:29] <anonimasu> fenn: the 1000$ servo stalled ;)
[01:02:55] <fenn> yeah cause you had it geared for high speed operation
[01:03:12] <anonimasu> nope..
[01:03:12] <K`zan> Working on a holder to contain two nuts with a spring between them.
[01:03:17] <anonimasu> direct drive.
[01:03:38] <K`zan> Unf, gorilla glue wouldn't hold the nuts to the wood frame :-(.
[01:04:06] <K`zan> Afro engineering at it's finest here :-).
[01:04:10] <fenn> anonimasu: well, my threaded rod machine works fine
[01:04:25] <anonimasu> fenn: how much torque are you wasting at moving your machine?
[01:04:34] <fenn> probably about 50%
[01:04:37] <anonimasu> fenn: wouldnt that torque be better to have while cutting ;)
[01:04:47] <K`zan> Looking at the positioning, it is rather amazing that as close as I can see using pencil marks, it is right on.
[01:05:12] <fenn> yes but the point is it works, and i didnt spend hours and hours worrying about drive efficiency
[01:05:40] <K`zan> Ran it back and forth a lot last night in one inch increments and it comes back to the pencil marks every time. At least until I reduct the inter-step delay too much.
[01:05:56] <K`zan> I have GOT to get a drive together...
[01:06:08] <fenn> K`zan: what rpm does it lose steps at?
[01:06:15] <K`zan> Byte the Bullet and just get the HobbyCNC 3 axis one.
[01:07:07] <K`zan> fenn: Dunno what the RPM would be, but lemme see, when it gets down to 6 second/inch value, it can get nasty in terms of just buzzing.
[01:07:28] <K`zan> Not always BAD, but it would seem any would be unacceptable.
[01:08:07] <K`zan> I need to run back up to the thrift store and grab the 35V/2.5A supply...
[01:08:09] <anonimasu> fenn: I am not worrying about effiency, but if you have small steppers ;)
[01:08:16] <K`zan> Wall wart :).
[01:08:52] <fenn> so... 0.166 in/sec and .05 in/turn = 0.
[01:08:57] <fenn> 18 rpm?
[01:09:29] <anonimasu> * anonimasu really needs to set up some avr dev stuff
[01:09:42] <K`zan> Looks about right, I changed the value to 10 sec/inch so as to be "safe".
[01:09:49] <K`zan> anonimasu: Run linux ?
[01:10:12] <K`zan> If not even winavr is decent if m$hit holds together.
[01:10:25] <anonimasu> I run windows on my workstation since I use it for work
[01:10:26] <K`zan> The new AVRStudio deals with the avrgcc stuff quite nicely.
[01:10:27] <anonimasu> :)
[01:10:28] <anonimasu> and linux on my ircbox..
[01:10:34] <anonimasu> so winavr it is
[01:10:44] <anonimasu> I were talking about the hardware..
[01:11:01] <K`zan> Got it running on both and while I loathe win$hit you probably won't hit the box hard enough to break it.
[01:11:26] <anonimasu> hehe
[01:11:39] <K`zan> There is a new (V5) avrdude that works nicely under linux and wincrap.
[01:11:52] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has a stk500
[01:12:26] <K`zan> Works fine with that also :) -c stk500v2 if you have done the recent upgrades to the V2 firmware.
[01:12:49] <anonimasu> and well, I cant progeam anything from this box either way..
[01:12:50] <K`zan> * K`zan need to make up 2x10 to inline to get stuff off the stk500 to the protoboards...
[01:13:04] <anonimasu> need to use the workbox for programming
[01:13:06] <anonimasu> :)
[01:13:13] <anonimasu> since it has serial port..
[01:13:15] <anonimasu> err has a
[01:13:28] <K`zan> It will do, just back up early and often with m$crap.
[01:13:31] <anonimasu> and a parallel port for programming plc's..
[01:13:48] <K`zan> Not that that will help since you still have the registry crap to deal with, but you will feel better :)
[01:13:55] <anonimasu> I dont think my workbox has crashed in 12 months..
[01:14:09] <K`zan> Hummm, all my machines have at least 1 parallel and 2 serial ports ?!?
[01:14:18] <K`zan> Some multiples of that.
[01:14:26] <anonimasu> K`zan: cant really do fieldwork with thoose boxes..
[01:14:26] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. Just to make sure everyone knows, we are reasonably-certain your passwords have not been compromised, but password changes are a very prudent precaution at this point. Thanks!
[01:14:27] <anonimasu> :)
[01:14:43] <K`zan> :-(
[01:15:14] <K`zan> I use m$hit as little as possible anymore and the less you use it, the longer it is between wipe/reinstalls...
[01:15:29] <anonimasu> heh..
[01:15:29] <K`zan> Been almost 2 years now and it is getting to be about time.
[01:15:44] <anonimasu> I use 3 apps on my workbox..
[01:15:52] <K`zan> Used to be 6 months between when I was actually trying to use it for real work.
[01:16:08] <anonimasu> yep..
[01:16:14] <anonimasu> I find it to work well for my use..
[01:16:20] <K`zan> Hate that registry SHIT with a passion that denies words...
[01:16:48] <K`zan> Although there are a number of things (m$fs) that will run unregistered...
[01:18:46] <K`zan> I don't mind so much re-installing but it gets to be a real PITA to re-install all the apps.
[01:19:47] <lilo> [Global Notice] Specifically, for your information, services passwords are hashed, and no direct access to our database files was involved in the attack. So any possible compromise would be in the form of changed passwords. Thank you!
[01:52:03] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (diff_log keep/E/EmcIni.kp page/E/EmcIni.db): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Sat Oct 15 01:15:02 BST 2005 "
[01:59:11] <mshaver> * mshaver is back
[01:59:16] <mshaver> * mshaver is back
[02:00:07] <mshaver> * mshaver is away: mshaver
[02:21:56] <fenn> "Many introverted hackers who are next to inarticulate in person communicate with considerable fluency over the net, perhaps precisely because they can forget on an unconscious level that they are dealing with people and thus don't feel stressed and anxious as they would face to face."
[02:22:06] <fenn> bah.
[02:37:13] <anonimasu> :)
[02:46:55] <K`zan> Hang them all and charge for tickets...
[02:47:21] <K`zan> * K`zan wonders if I am the only one who will have the HobbyCNC kit...
[02:53:19] <fenn> i've got a hobbycnc board
[02:53:42] <fenn> i didnt solder it though.. but i imagine you are more than competent enough :)
[03:03:50] <Jacky^> g night
[04:13:55] <anonimasu> logger_aj: bookmark
[04:13:55] <anonimasu> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2005-10-15#T04-13-55
[04:44:49] <JimHurlburt> ping cradek
[04:54:19] <grichmond> hi everyone :)
[04:55:23] <grichmond> I've been researching the linuxcnc.org project and like the look of it... is there someone here that knows a bit about the source code and how i can set up a debugging environment for it and maybe develop in the future?
[04:55:49] <grichmond> i'd like to get my head around the code a bit more first of course
[04:55:53] <grichmond> :)
[04:59:11] <JimHurlburt> Not a emc programmer, but hi anyway
[05:04:00] <K`zan> From all the responses it looks like I am going to be the only one with a HobbyCNC driver board...
[05:06:32] <K`zan> Moot point anyway:
[05:06:36] <K`zan> The minimum is just that. Running steppers rated at 400ma at 500ma will
[05:06:36] <K`zan> quickly overheat them and demagnetize them in short order.
[05:06:52] <K`zan> Back to the drawing board...
[05:07:19] <K`zan> I assume from that response that the L297 doesn't go below 500 mA.
[05:07:51] <cradek> JimHurlburt: pong
[05:08:41] <cradek> K`zan: the L297 will give you whatever current you want - you just have to choose your sense resistors and reference voltage accordingly
[05:09:43] <K`zan> That was the impression I had, but according to hobbycnc, you can't adjust it on their board ?!?
[05:10:02] <cradek> I'm sure you can "adjust" it by changing the sense resistors if nothing else.
[05:10:28] <cradek> of course I have no idea what drivers they use, but the basic idea of a chopper is to use a feedback loop to regulate current
[05:10:43] <cradek> it's all determined by those sense resistors
[05:11:08] <K`zan> Aha, check this:
[05:11:11] <K`zan> http://www.hobbycnc.com/driverboards/4aupc/X%20Y%20axis.jpg
[05:11:28] <K`zan> I had assumed it used 297s, but that doesn't match up # wise.
[05:11:58] <cradek> no, since it microsteps, I think
[05:12:19] <grichmond> just a thought, has anyone here ever tried using EMC on a distributed control system? i.e. where the control loop for the servo not being done by the emc program?
[05:12:34] <K`zan> SO, looks like that isn't going to work for me, perhaps it will for Jim.
[05:12:45] <K`zan> He is going to have to spend a chunk on servos.
[05:12:49] <K`zan> to drive that Taig
[05:12:59] <K`zan> err Big steppers.
[05:16:36] <JimHurlburt> Evening cradek
[05:16:41] <cradek> hello
[05:16:58] <JimHurlburt> I have the build running with a couple of problems.
[05:17:27] <JimHurlburt> I have a .ngc where I set feed to 16 and move, then set it to 2 in a g2 line.
[05:18:08] <JimHurlburt> After that I can't seem to set it back to 16 to move to the next cut
[05:18:14] <JimHurlburt> Any ideas?
[05:19:20] <cradek> can you paste the relevant lines?
[05:19:59] <JimHurlburt> %
[05:20:15] <JimHurlburt> g90 g40
[05:20:23] <JimHurlburt> g1 z.1 f16
[05:20:28] <JimHurlburt> x0 y0
[05:20:37] <JimHurlburt> #1 = 0
[05:20:44] <JimHurlburt> #2 = 5
[05:20:57] <JimHurlburt> y-1.875
[05:21:07] <JimHurlburt> z-.032 f3
[05:21:23] <JimHurlburt> Up to the f3, back plot is scooting right along
[05:21:43] <JimHurlburt> x[#1 +.127]
[05:22:12] <JimHurlburt> g2 x[#1-.127] r.127 f2
[05:22:37] <JimHurlburt> g2 x[#1+.127] r.127
[05:22:46] <JimHurlburt> g1 #1
[05:22:53] <JimHurlburt> z-0.063 f[#2]
[05:23:01] <JimHurlburt> x[#1 +.127]
[05:23:19] <JimHurlburt> g2 x[#1-.127] r.127 f2
[05:23:28] <JimHurlburt> g2 x[#1+.127] r.127
[05:23:41] <JimHurlburt> g1 z.1 f16
[05:24:02] <JimHurlburt> #1 = .7175
[05:24:04] <JimHurlburt> g1 x .7175 y-1.7323 f16
[05:24:36] <JimHurlburt> When it gets to the lines with f16 (or 10 earlier, it doesn't speed up
[05:24:59] <cradek> I think g1 #1 is a syntax error
[05:25:15] <JimHurlburt> There is much more to the file, but that is enough to demonstrate
[05:25:33] <cradek> yeah, sorry, I should have asked you to send it to me
[05:25:40] <JimHurlburt> In that case, what would be the correc syntax for use of a variable in that context?
[05:26:18] <JimHurlburt> can send if you wish. Seems to run fine including the change of center for the circles, just no feed speed change
[05:26:26] <cradek> sure, send it over
[05:26:36] <cradek> actually, I don't understand what you want that line to do
[05:27:22] <JimHurlburt> On the way
[05:27:25] <K`zan> looks like for these steppers I am going to have to figure out what is coming out of the parallel port and use that to command the steppers through the AVR...
[05:27:48] <JimHurlburt> What I have is a series of 16 indented circles.
[05:28:28] <JimHurlburt> Instead of editing the code and offsets for making the circles, I found where I can use a variable to hold the circle center
[05:28:44] <cradek> I understand
[05:28:59] <JimHurlburt> g1 x #1 should move x to the position held in variable #1
[05:29:56] <cradek> I get line 311: unexpected end of file until I add m2 before the %
[05:29:56] <JimHurlburt> It would have been nice if the gcode designers had read postscript or at least basic when they did it.
[05:30:21] <cradek> JimHurlburt: you could have also used relative coordinates, or a coordinate system offset
[05:30:33] <JimHurlburt> Didn't seem to bother here, but I can add it.
[05:30:42] <JimHurlburt> Verify didn't whine anyway
[05:32:29] <cradek> I agree that f16 on line 31 doesn't seem to do anything
[05:32:48] <cradek> (why do you not just use g0 there?)
[05:34:25] <JimHurlburt> My sherline mill doesn't seem to like g0, sometimes the steppers just sit there and quiver.
[05:34:35] <cradek> yikes
[05:34:54] <JimHurlburt> I think there may be a line in the config file that will slow g0 down a bit but haven't dug for it
[05:35:04] <cradek> MAX_VELOCITY
[05:36:46] <JimHurlburt> Thanks, will adjust that one tomorrow. However, f16 should work after an f2
[05:37:11] <cradek> definitely
[05:37:43] <K`zan> Anyone know of a reference to the parallel port signals for each axis ?
[05:38:02] <JimHurlburt> To change the subject a bit, I found and downloaded axis last nite.
[05:38:11] <cradek> JimHurlburt: have it working yet?
[05:38:12] <K`zan> definitions I mean. What does the step expect and what does directions expect.
[05:38:37] <cradek> K`zan: step is active low
[05:38:42] <JimHurlburt> After a bit of fildling got it to start to run, but it segfaults and dumps out
[05:39:11] <K`zan> cradek: that commands one FULL step (1/8th turn) ?
[05:39:16] <JimHurlburt> Would be quite willing to help tinker but it would help to have some idea where to start
[05:39:17] <cradek> not even a python error?
[05:39:26] <JimHurlburt> No.
[05:39:30] <cradek> K`zan: depends on your setup.
[05:40:02] <K`zan> The way I have this set up now when I hit the step switch, it makes one full turn.
[05:40:11] <K`zan> 8 steps
[05:40:24] <K`zan> How one would keep track of that might be interesting.
[05:40:29] <cradek> K`zan: that's not what you want, you want it to make one step (the smallest rotation possible)
[05:40:33] <JimHurlburt> I'll stop the run on backplot -- still no joy on fast feed and re-set if or axis and send the error message
[05:41:23] <K`zan> cradek: ok a step and not a turn. So I will need to keep track of the last step and direction taken to deal with the next command. Not difficult,
[05:42:06] <cradek> K`zan: hook step to an interrupt. When you get the interrupt, read dir, move that dir in your state table, output it
[05:42:13] <cradek> very simple
[05:42:19] <K`zan> Yes, thanks.
[05:42:47] <JimHurlburt> running EMC DISPLAY PROGRAM -- axis...
[05:42:56] <JimHurlburt> Xlib: extension "XFree86-DRI" missing on display ":0.0".
[05:43:05] <JimHurlburt> ./generic.run: line 979: 16868 Segmentation fault plat/$display_plat/bin/$display -ini $INIFILE
[05:43:21] <cradek> can you run any GL program on your machine?
[05:43:51] <JimHurlburt> Running gentoo & x,org -- it looks like maybe an Xserver error
[05:44:02] <cradek> do you have glxgears?
[05:44:10] <K`zan> JimHurlburt: you got RTAI set up on gentoo ?
[05:44:11] <JimHurlburt> Gl programs, not sure.
[05:44:50] <JimHurlburt> K'zan No, running in sim mode to test and debug gcode before taking it to the shop
[05:45:35] <K`zan> JimHurlburt: Ah, guess I'll have to put DBI on a spare partition :-).
[05:46:08] <JimHurlburt> cradek : Yes, and they run zipping right along
[05:47:06] <JimHurlburt> K'zan : Perhaps could, but didn't feel the need
[05:47:49] <JimHurlburt> Rtai may not be a 2.6 option anyway and some of the guys have been working on low latency stuff till it's pretty good I hear
[05:47:54] <cradek> JimHurlburt: at a shell run python -c 'import OpenGL.Tk'
[05:47:55] <K`zan> JimHurlburt: Gentoo freak here :-).
[05:50:10] <cradek> JimHurlburt: I still have not spotted the bug in your gcode. maybe it's an emc bug.
[05:50:28] <JimHurlburt> cradek : Python, thence import OpenGL.Tk pops up a little tk window
[05:50:46] <cradek> hmm, I figured it would segfault
[05:50:54] <cradek> there are lots of bad pyopengl packages out there
[05:50:55] <JimHurlburt> Not yet
[05:51:01] <cradek> did you buidl pyopengl yourself?
[05:51:24] <JimHurlburt> Gentoo, there is no choice. It always builds on my machine
[05:51:41] <cradek> do you have more than one python version?
[05:51:58] <cradek> have a look at the first line of .../emc/plat/.../bin/axis
[05:52:05] <cradek> to make sure you're testing the right python
[05:52:11] <JimHurlburt> I think 2.3 and 2.4. The running one is 2.4.1
[05:52:40] <cradek> % head -1 emc/emc/plat/linux_2_4_20/bin/axis
[05:52:40] <cradek> #!/usr/bin/python
[05:55:25] <JimHurlburt> #! /usr/bin/python as you said
[05:55:55] <JimHurlburt> Which when run from the command line pops up 2.4.1
[05:56:10] <cradek> ok and that's the one you did the import in, right
[05:57:01] <JimHurlburt> Correct. In addition, when gentoo moved from 2.3 to 2.4 it rebuilt all the python dependencies as well
[05:57:46] <cradek> hmm...
[05:58:53] <JimHurlburt> If I start 2.3 and try import OpenGL.Tk, get the no module error. I installed it special for this
[06:01:17] <JimHurlburt> Did have to go to plat/linux_2_6_11_gentoo_r6/bin/axis if that matters
[06:01:44] <cradek> do you have /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/OpenGL/Demo/tom/checker.py?
[06:01:50] <cradek> or wherever it would be on your system
[06:02:56] <cradek> try /usr/bin/python ..../checker.py
[06:06:06] <JimHurlburt> Shows a checker board, then the Xlib error same as axis
[06:06:18] <cradek> AHA
[06:06:24] <JimHurlburt> Seems to be an xorg.conf problem
[06:06:35] <cradek> or it could definitely be your python
[06:06:46] <cradek> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=282942
[06:07:07] <cradek> you might be able to fix it with this method... but I don't understand the details
[06:07:34] <cradek> but wait, I thought we worked around this
[06:07:48] <cradek> are you using the latest snapshot of axis?
[06:08:55] <cradek> oh wait, you get the Xlib error, but no segfault?
[06:08:57] <JimHurlburt> axis-1.1rc1.tar.gz
[06:09:09] <cradek> I don't think that DRI error is a problem
[06:09:33] <JimHurlburt> may not be. the gears ran well
[06:09:48] <cradek> does the checkerboard work? can you navigate with the mouse?
[06:10:16] <cradek> you can fix the dri error by changing Load "dri" in xorg.conf
[06:10:43] <cradek> I think I'm back to having no clue if the checkerboard works
[06:10:43] <JimHurlburt> Can click on the circle and wiggle the checker board around
[06:10:52] <cradek> hmm.
[06:11:21] <cradek> I assume axis didn't dump a core?
[06:12:16] <JimHurlburt> Can do the xorg.conf change. Will take a bit, will need to make the change and restart x
[06:12:29] <cradek> I don't think it will help, but I guess it can't hurt
[06:12:33] <JimHurlburt> No core that I can see in emc
[06:13:49] <K`zan> cradek: Does EMC (or controllers in general) time the step output or do I have to buffer it ?
[06:14:21] <cradek> K`zan: I don't understand the question
[06:15:06] <JimHurlburt> cradek: In that case, I'll log of and tweak x. See if you're still here in a while
[06:15:14] <JimHurlburt> Thanks for the time and attention
[06:15:19] <cradek> JimHurlburt: welcome
[06:15:28] <K`zan> cradek: In my little program, I have to delay a given amount between steps or the stepper sits there and buzzes, I would think that the parameter file in the controller should know (be told) what that delay should be.
[06:15:50] <cradek> oh I understand
[06:15:53] <cradek> all that is timed by emc
[06:16:10] <cradek> you configure it by telling emc the maximum velocity your machine can handle
[06:16:30] <cradek> that, taken with the scale (steps per unit distance) give a maximum step rate
[06:16:32] <K`zan> Ah, OK, is it something you adjust in a parameter file - ah, thanks, so all I have to do is just do it :-))
[06:16:50] <cradek> right, the driver just has to step when emc says step
[06:16:50] <K`zan> Much to learn :-) Thanks so much!
[06:17:33] <K`zan> ALmost got it, just need to save state and direction and deal with that on a new step/dir command and I can hook up the parallel port to it :-). Toooo cool.
[06:17:50] <cradek> more interesting is that your stepper can turn faster than you think, if you accelerate it smoothly up to a speed above which it was buzzing for you
[06:18:04] <cradek> emc handles this acceleration for you too
[06:18:12] <K`zan> direction polarity also something you specify in the parameter file?
[06:18:16] <cradek> yes
[06:18:22] <K`zan> OK, too cool!
[06:18:28] <cradek> don't worry about it, and if your motors turn backward, you just reverse it
[06:18:55] <K`zan> OK, well I have to keep track of direction to get the right value out of the table...
[06:19:31] <K`zan> So I will assume a given state as CW or CCW as the case may be.
[06:19:39] <cradek> yeah
[06:19:44] <cradek> there might be a standard, I'm not sure
[06:20:03] <cradek> but it's not clear that CW is + or - since you can have RH or LH leadscrews
[06:20:10] <cradek> so I think it's not worth worrying about
[06:20:39] <K`zan> if (bit_is_set(PIND,2) dir = CW;
[06:20:46] <K`zan> Ok, just so I deal with it.
[06:21:09] <K`zan> Thanks
[06:21:19] <cradek> welcome
[06:21:38] <K`zan> I may end up with a controller that works with my funky steppers and save the coins for that Taig :).
[06:22:14] <K`zan> err DRIVER :-)
[06:22:56] <cradek> jepler wrote a three-axis step/dir to halfstep phase drive for the avr
[06:23:00] <cradek> I used it for a while
[06:23:15] <cradek> err, four axis
[06:23:29] <K`zan> Only need 3 here, but that's OK :).
[06:23:36] <K`zan> C or ASM ?
[06:23:38] <cradek> he managed to get four interrupts, using INT0, INT1, T0, T1
[06:23:57] <cradek> C
[06:24:20] <K`zan> Was just sitting here debating that, Use a small AVR per axis or a big one for all...
[06:24:32] <K`zan> Cool, any chance he might part with code ?
[06:24:38] <cradek> a big one for all is possible, but it's too clever by half
[06:24:48] <cradek> you have to set the timers so they're about to overflow
[06:25:04] <cradek> then set the external timer input pin to increment the timer
[06:25:17] <K`zan> There are a number of interrupt on change pins, will have to see.
[06:25:23] <cradek> then catch the SIG_OVERFLOW interrupt
[06:25:32] <cradek> just two, the other two are timers
[06:25:56] <K`zan> No need to use the timers if you have 4 interrupt on change pins handy...
[06:26:09] <cradek> do you have that? I'm sure we didn't (atmega16)
[06:26:35] <K`zan> Might make more sense at this point to do all three separately rather than toast one biggie on a screwup / misunderstanding...
[06:26:55] <cradek> I suppose it will be easier to get right.
[06:26:56] <K`zan> Lemme check, never really paid attention to those as I never needed them.
[06:27:09] <K`zan> Cheaper if I screw up :-) too :-)
[06:27:39] <K`zan> Maybe this might be a good thing for that old M8515 "I will never use" :).
[06:29:12] <Jymmm> If you get a chance, rent "The longest Yard" (2005) w/ Chris Rock and Adam Sandler. It's really good.
[06:29:26] <Jymmm> And I'm not a Adam Sandler fan at all.
[06:50:49] <K`zan> Looks like that PCIE thing is only for the really tiny Tiny AVRs. Not helpful :-(.
[09:36:59] <K`zan> Night folks!
[10:59:03] <alex_joni> morning folks
[11:00:00] <ValarQ> mornin
[11:00:33] <alex_joni> what's up?
[11:05:38] <ValarQ> working on some haskell code
[11:05:54] <alex_joni> ick
[11:23:55] <fenn> yum yum.. haskell is tasty
[11:26:56] <ValarQ> yeah, it sure is :)
[11:59:04] <alex_joni> yo fenn
[11:59:08] <alex_joni> where did you go?
[11:59:36] <Jacky^> morning peoples
[11:59:56] <ValarQ> mornin
[12:00:28] <Jacky^> hello ValarQ :-)
[12:01:19] <fenn> alex_joni: i spent a couple weeks in the ancient forests in oregon, then spent a month on my bicycle riding around oregon and the pacific coast
[12:02:53] <alex_joni> nice
[12:04:55] <anonimasu> morning
[12:06:28] <Jacky^> hi anonimasu
[12:06:58] <Jacky^> what about this encoder ? http://www.usdigital.com/products/e4p/
[12:08:09] <Jacky^> is ok to use with a servodrive, 250w servomotor ?
[12:11:29] <anonimasu> what kind of drive?
[12:11:40] <Jacky^> gecko G340
[12:11:49] <anonimasu> yes
[12:12:00] <Jacky^> is the resolution ok ?
[12:12:06] <Jacky^> ive no idea..
[12:12:11] <alex_joni> what resolution?
[12:12:22] <Jacky^> optical encoder
[12:12:27] <anonimasu> well, yeah, since you have g340..
[12:12:31] <alex_joni> how many counts ?
[12:12:38] <Jacky^> is it like 200 step ,or better i suppopse
[12:12:39] <anonimasu> you can scale it at the drive if it's a bit high to get high speed..
[12:12:49] <alex_joni> 200 is pretty low
[12:12:50] <Jacky^> alex_joni: http://www.usdigital.com/products/e4p/
[12:12:57] <alex_joni> you gonna connect it to the motor?
[12:12:58] <anonimasu> yep
[12:13:07] <anonimasu> 480 to 1200 pulses per revolution (PPR)
[12:13:17] <Jacky^> then ?
[12:13:50] <alex_joni> Jacky^: what resolution do you need on the machine?
[12:14:10] <Jacky^> alex_joni: great question :\
[12:14:14] <Jacky^> no clue
[12:14:38] <alex_joni> what do you want to be able to do with the machine?
[12:14:52] <anonimasu> alex_joni: how long will you be here today?
[12:15:14] <alex_joni> anonimasu: will go away for a while, but I'll be online later today
[12:15:20] <anonimasu> hm ok
[12:15:28] <Jacky^> alex_joni: i planned 1x1 mt wood machine
[12:15:33] <alex_joni> I'll be around for an hour or so
[12:15:37] <Jacky^> les helped me ..
[12:15:40] <alex_joni> Jacky^: not size, accuracy
[12:15:48] <alex_joni> do you want to cut parts with 1mm steps?
[12:15:55] <alex_joni> or do you need better finishing?
[12:16:00] <Jacky^> nope..
[12:16:06] <Jacky^> oh
[12:16:10] <alex_joni> say you cut a circle
[12:16:13] <anonimasu> 1mm is huge...
[12:16:15] <Jacky^> better finishing would not bad..
[12:16:17] <alex_joni> do you want to see 1mm steps?
[12:16:18] <alex_joni> :D
[12:16:20] <alex_joni> probably not
[12:16:36] <alex_joni> so you'd need smthg like 0.05 - 0.1 mm at least
[12:16:42] <alex_joni> or even better accuracy
[12:16:45] <Jacky^> 1 mm seem a lot
[12:16:54] <alex_joni> but once you decided that, you can fgure out what encoder to use
[12:17:11] <alex_joni> depending on the resolution of your leadscrews
[12:17:19] <alex_joni> you do use leadscrews, do you?
[12:17:45] <Jacky^> othe leadcrew will be 20 mm diamter 5 mm lead
[12:18:00] <alex_joni> ok.. 5mm lead
[12:18:04] <Jacky^> probably abba leadscrew
[12:18:06] <alex_joni> that means 5 mm / turn
[12:18:10] <alex_joni> right?
[12:18:11] <Jacky^> yeah
[12:18:22] <alex_joni> ok, so if you have an encoder with 200 counts / turn
[12:18:28] <alex_joni> that means 200 counts / 5 mm
[12:18:34] <alex_joni> = 40 counts / mm
[12:18:48] <Jacky^> pretty nice ..
[12:18:51] <alex_joni> that is 0,025 mm accuracy
[12:18:58] <Jacky^> good
[12:19:00] <alex_joni> not accuracy, stepping size
[12:19:07] <fenn> "resolution"
[12:19:12] <alex_joni> should be fairly ok for a homebrew machine
[12:19:30] <alex_joni> what fenn said
[12:19:35] <anonimasu> hm
[12:19:45] <alex_joni> so you will be able to position the machine at multiples of that resolution
[12:20:27] <alex_joni> will you drive the leadscrew directly?
[12:20:35] <alex_joni> I mean motor connected to leadscrew ?
[12:20:38] <alex_joni> 1:1 ?
[12:20:46] <Jacky^> yes
[12:21:02] <Jacky^> but ill use twin screw on x axis
[12:21:10] <Jacky^> to move the gantry
[12:21:16] <Jacky^> some strap too
[12:21:22] <Jacky^> i think should be 1:1
[12:21:31] <alex_joni> ok
[12:21:36] <alex_joni> so the above calculation is ok
[12:21:44] <Jacky^> :)
[12:21:47] <alex_joni> if you do 2:1 then you get twice as good resolution
[12:21:50] <alex_joni> and so on
[12:22:00] <Jacky^> okay..
[12:22:18] <alex_joni> so basicly you start the other way around
[12:22:28] <alex_joni> you got the leadscrews, got the resolution you need
[12:22:35] <alex_joni> then you choose the encoder
[12:22:52] <alex_joni> if you got the G340 then maybe choosing a better encoder is not a bad idea
[12:23:03] <Jacky^> alex_joni: it seem geckodrive seel no encoders..
[12:23:05] <alex_joni> the G340 has a multiplier from 1 to 10
[12:23:14] <anonimasu> that way you can compromise a bit
[12:23:15] <Jacky^> i need to do a new order, so ..
[12:23:18] <anonimasu> when you find out how fast you can crank out pulses
[12:23:22] <anonimasu> why?
[12:23:31] <anonimasu> and what resolution you really need..
[12:23:51] <alex_joni> so you can have a 2000 counts encoder and use it like it is a 200, 400, 1000, 2000 encoder
[12:23:53] <Jacky^> i know gecko has step multiplier
[12:23:58] <alex_joni> depending on what you need
[12:24:10] <Jacky^> but ive no idea how it work ..
[12:24:18] <alex_joni> you need to see the step multiplier as a resolution divider
[12:24:36] <fenn> hmm.. you dont need a step multiplier for a servo based system
[12:24:40] <alex_joni> if the step multiplier is 1, then the motor needs to turn 1 encoder step for 1 commanded step
[12:24:51] <fenn> step multiplier is much more complicated and funky than a resolution dividier
[12:24:53] <Jacky^> fenn: why not ?
[12:24:53] <alex_joni> if the step multiplier is 10, then the motor needs to turn 10 encoder steps for 1 commanded step
[12:25:18] <alex_joni> fenn: it turns out to be the same thing
[12:25:18] <fenn> = expensive
[12:25:24] <Jacky^> alex_joni: understood..
[12:25:24] <alex_joni> even if it's more complicated to do
[12:25:31] <alex_joni> and the G340 already has it in there
[12:25:38] <alex_joni> for about 60$ more money
[12:25:45] <Jacky^> fenn: i'm buyng G340 right for the multiplier :(
[12:25:48] <fenn> right, but you dont need to have a step multiplier to divide down resolution
[12:25:57] <Jacky^> isint good ?
[12:25:58] <fenn> just use a binary counter chip
[12:26:00] <alex_joni> yeah, sure.. but you can use it for that
[12:26:09] <alex_joni> fenn: not with signals from the encoder
[12:26:09] <fenn> heh.. "just"
[12:26:28] <fenn> right, anyway, it's probably better to just buy the G340
[12:26:34] <alex_joni> yup
[12:26:41] <Jacky^> ok
[12:26:55] <alex_joni> if you don't mind the resolution division, you might get better performance of your machine
[12:26:59] <alex_joni> as in 10 times faster ;)
[12:27:12] <Jacky^> :D
[12:28:01] <alex_joni> and it's only 39$ more pricy
[12:28:12] <Jacky^> ive seen
[12:28:25] <alex_joni> Jacky^: definately worth the money
[12:28:48] <Jacky^> yeah
[12:29:11] <alex_joni> I still have some G340 on stock
[12:29:20] <alex_joni> but I just heard of a project on that I'll use them ;)
[12:29:59] <Jacky^> alex_joni: should the encoders be connected to parport too ?
[12:30:05] <Jacky^> no eh ?
[12:30:20] <Jacky^> no needed right ?
[12:30:30] <alex_joni> not needed
[12:30:34] <Jacky^> ok
[12:30:38] <alex_joni> I'd stick with a simple design in your case
[12:31:10] <Jacky^> yeah
[12:31:51] <Jacky^> i asked for some quote in italy too ..
[12:32:47] <Jacky^> just a moment..
[12:33:26] <Jacky^> ie. thi axis http://www.ronchinimassimo.com/rm_tl_y300.htm
[12:33:45] <Jacky^> E. 573
[12:34:05] <Jacky^> 300 mm travel
[12:34:19] <Jacky^> cheaper ?
[12:34:23] <alex_joni> which one?
[12:34:30] <Jacky^> RM-TL-Y300/T
[12:34:47] <alex_joni> don't like it
[12:34:51] <alex_joni> it's expensive
[12:35:00] <alex_joni> 573 EUR for such a crap
[12:35:02] <Jacky^> it seem to me too ..
[12:35:06] <Jacky^> :\
[12:35:18] <alex_joni> Gioco sulla madrevite [mm] 0,1 +/- 30%
[12:35:22] <alex_joni> that's bad
[12:35:30] <alex_joni> also.. 300mm is a bit little
[12:35:32] <anonimasu> argh
[12:35:38] <anonimasu> yeah that's a expensive slide..
[12:35:42] <fenn> i always thought parma was in spain
[12:35:48] <Jacky^> 600 mm travel, E. 1339,00
[12:35:53] <alex_joni> and not even ballscrews from what I've seen
[12:35:53] <Jacky^> same axis ..
[12:36:11] <Jacky^> infact
[12:36:27] <alex_joni> the R type seems a bit better
[12:37:13] <Jacky^> mmhh.. ive no quotes for that
[12:37:34] <alex_joni> if it's the same price, then it's a bit expensive
[12:37:37] <alex_joni> but only a bit
[12:39:12] <Jacky^> anyway i will not use rounded bars..
[12:39:31] <Jacky^> low profile rails
[12:39:34] <fenn> good choice
[12:39:40] <Jacky^> yeah..
[12:40:06] <fenn> for woodworking though i think you can get away with just aluminum extrusions like 80/20
[12:40:35] <Jacky^> yes
[12:59:52] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes away
[12:59:58] <alex_joni> later guys
[13:00:42] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A pokes alex_joni
[13:00:46] <A-L-P-H-A> in the eye!
[13:00:51] <alex_joni> too late
[13:00:51] <alex_joni> :P
[13:00:54] <A-L-P-H-A> :P :)
[13:06:04] <les> good morning
[13:07:02] <anonimasu> hello les
[13:08:24] <les> almost chilly enough to turn on thr heat
[13:08:31] <anonimasu> :)
[13:08:40] <anonimasu> hm I should look outside
[13:08:43] <anonimasu> it might be snow..
[13:08:46] <les> about 12c
[13:09:07] <anonimasu> :)
[13:09:36] <les> about 2 degrees with 50 km/hr winds on the mountain tops
[13:09:51] <anonimasu> ew
[13:09:52] <les> but no wind in the valleys
[13:09:53] <anonimasu> that's cold
[13:10:14] <anonimasu> * anonimasu ponders going outside to have a go in disassembling the machine
[13:12:12] <les> hi jacky
[13:12:36] <Jacky^> morning les :)
[13:13:27] <Jacky^> was asking for encoders on new machine
[13:13:32] <Jacky^> to use*
[13:13:47] <les> with gecko?
[13:13:56] <Jacky^> yeah, g340
[13:14:08] <les> what ballscrew pitch?
[13:14:27] <Jacky^> ballscrew, 20 mm diameter 5 mm lead
[13:14:59] <Jacky^> i was looking at miniature encoders by usdigital
[13:15:10] <Jacky^> they seem to be cheaper
[13:15:16] <les> about 500 pulse/rev if the gecko does 4x interpolation
[13:15:24] <les> I use us digital
[13:15:46] <anonimasu> hm relatives on visit
[13:15:53] <Jacky^> what you think about ep4 miniature encoder ?
[13:16:08] <anonimasu> ah well at my parents appartment..
[13:16:21] <anonimasu> I hope they dont come to visit me
[13:16:41] <anonimasu> appartment/house
[13:16:52] <Jacky^> anonimasu: i will came with all my family ]:)
[13:16:58] <Jacky^> 23 peoples
[13:17:00] <Jacky^> haha
[13:17:16] <anonimasu> I could fit 23 people.. :)
[13:17:21] <Jacky^> hehe
[13:17:53] <anonimasu> but I dont want you & your family here :)
[13:18:02] <les> I use e3....ep$ would be ok too
[13:18:07] <les> ep4
[13:18:08] <Jacky^> i will came the same
[13:18:24] <Jacky^> les: good ..
[13:18:32] <anonimasu> or well anyone for that matter
[13:18:37] <les> just need to know if gecko 340 does 4x interpolation
[13:18:39] <anonimasu> m/clear
[13:18:54] <les> I don't kow....but it is important to find out
[13:18:56] <Jacky^> les: mm.. i will ask
[13:19:02] <les> ok
[13:19:09] <Jacky^> thanks
[13:19:57] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[13:20:30] <anonimasu> hm my little cousin said I had a mess here..
[13:20:32] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ give a cup of strong italian coffe to anonimasu
[13:20:44] <anonimasu> *puts on some tea*
[13:20:52] <Jacky^> :)
[13:21:16] <Jacky^> kimbo
[13:21:23] <Jacky^> its a good brand
[13:21:30] <Jacky^> maded in naples
[13:22:29] <anonimasu> hm ok
[13:23:03] <Jacky^> yesterday i machined a beautiful star box
[13:23:18] <Jacky^> with a nice inlay on the top side ..
[13:23:46] <Jacky^> after 2 hours i finished to machine it .. it curved
[13:23:51] <Jacky^> damn :(
[13:23:58] <anonimasu> curved?
[13:24:01] <anonimasu> how did that happen
[13:24:12] <Jacky^> im going to try again with another wood type..
[13:24:42] <Jacky^> anonimasu: the piece was 2 cm thikness
[13:24:55] <Jacky^> i machined at 3 mm
[13:25:02] <anonimasu> that seems thick
[13:25:12] <Jacky^> not enough ..
[13:25:21] <anonimasu> *craves for making parts*
[13:25:23] <Jacky^> bad quality wood too ..
[13:25:27] <anonimasu> I am going to finish the machine today..
[13:25:35] <anonimasu> or well pick it apart so I can get bearings next week..
[13:25:42] <anonimasu> I've got projects stacking up
[13:26:26] <Jacky^> to build a machine ?
[13:27:19] <Jacky^> anonimasu: are you able to machine ballscrew with your lathe ?
[13:27:19] <anonimasu> build?
[13:27:26] <Jacky^> no eh ?
[13:27:27] <anonimasu> yes
[13:27:34] <Jacky^> ou.. nice
[13:27:39] <anonimasu> on my old small lathe that was..
[13:27:41] <Jacky^> accurancy ?
[13:27:52] <Jacky^> good ?
[13:28:15] <anonimasu> I machined a flat then crimped a -- on the end of the screw..
[13:28:24] <anonimasu> for machining bearing surfaces off..
[13:28:44] <Jacky^> nice
[13:28:44] <anonimasu> I didnt feel like cutting too much screw..
[13:28:46] <anonimasu> :)
[13:28:58] <anonimasu> if I had more experience I would have ordered the screw pre machined..
[13:29:10] <anonimasu> but I cut it at my micro lathe by the time ;)
[13:29:27] <fenn> i wonder if anyone has tried les's idea for putting nubs on the end of a ballscrew
[13:29:45] <anonimasu> nubs?
[13:29:47] <fenn> well, i guess les has, but he's just a nobody :)
[13:30:20] <les> haha
[13:30:24] <anonimasu> I think I am going to skip building a robot style robot
[13:30:29] <anonimasu> and just build it as a manipulator..
[13:30:33] <les> you mean the screw on caps?
[13:30:40] <fenn> put ball bearings in the grooves of the screw, then add a "cap" with ID equal to the diameter of the balls
[13:31:08] <anonimasu> hehe :)
[13:31:20] <fenn> imagine that's more accurate than trying to cut a funky ID thread
[13:31:44] <fenn> wonder if endplay is an issue though
[13:31:56] <les> Many don't realize that machining the ends can cost as much as the screw
[13:32:33] <Jacky^> les: right ..
[13:33:00] <anonimasu> as for my next machine I am not buying skf screws but isel ones..
[13:33:41] <les> wonder who makes the isel ones
[13:34:31] <anonimasu> they are 1/5 the price ;)
[13:34:37] <anonimasu> but not nearly as accurate
[13:34:51] <les> Soon my machine has to go down to fit the new spindle
[13:35:05] <anonimasu> but it depends on the app..
[13:35:18] <anonimasu> I would have bught the screws pre machined..
[13:35:37] <anonimasu> and bought real gears with < <
[13:35:44] <anonimasu> clamping..
[13:35:51] <les> I machine ballscrew ends...but it is a lot of work
[13:36:04] <anonimasu> I think skf beats you in precision ;)
[13:36:28] <les> I'll bet they don't ;)
[13:36:30] <anonimasu> and ordered the bearing mounts off the local machine shop..
[13:36:30] <les> haha
[13:37:48] <les> I machine and grind ends to .002 mm TIR
[13:38:37] <les> it is expensive to do though
[13:39:48] <fenn> i know i already asked this, but how do you center the ends? just a 4-jaw?
[13:40:41] <les> good question. It is often a problem, because on some screws the outside lands are not good datums
[13:41:19] <les> a good 4 jaw will work....indicate the bottom of the ball grove while in threading mode
[13:41:29] <les> groove
[13:42:19] <les> on some screws the lands are good for datums
[13:42:29] <les> then a collet is fine for holding
[13:50:26] <anonimasu> *reads about kinematics*
[13:52:35] <anonimasu> I wonder how to make toolchanges easily.
[13:53:29] <fenn> 1. unscrew drawbar 2. remove tool 3. insert tool 4. tighten clamp bar
[13:53:41] <anonimasu> fenn: oh geez I didnt think about that
[13:53:56] <fenn> glad i could help :)
[13:54:03] <anonimasu> ^_^
[13:54:24] <anonimasu> I wonder if I could build that manipulator to pull the tool out..
[13:55:20] <anonimasu> brb..
[14:28:22] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[15:25:48] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[15:26:45] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[15:27:24] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[15:31:06] <alex_joni> hey rayh
[15:31:41] <rayh> Hi Alex. How you doing on this fine weekend?
[15:32:16] <alex_joni> as you said.. fine
[15:32:59] <rayh> Good. Beautiful weather here in western Illinois.
[15:33:28] <alex_joni> same here
[15:33:35] <alex_joni> I slept late today
[15:33:56] <rayh> Good. So did I.
[15:34:45] <rayh> Got a good download of 4.30 and will install today.
[16:13:36] <alex_joni> hey Jymmm
[16:13:41] <Jymmm> morning alex_joni
[16:13:49] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8335653541
[16:18:02] <alex_joni> hang on .. my browser is busy :D
[16:21:22] <alex_joni> heh.. nice
[16:22:27] <Jymmm> 694K visitors
[16:22:57] <alex_joni> lol
[16:33:10] <Jymmm> White Trash Survival Kit... http://www.in-depthangling.com/forum/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/242993
[16:51:01] <cradek> hello everyone
[16:51:03] <cradek> did I miss the meeting?
[16:51:08] <alex_joni> hey chris
[16:51:09] <cradek> oh, wrong day
[16:51:14] <cradek> duh
[16:51:14] <alex_joni> not much going on today ;)
[16:51:14] <cradek> hi alex
[16:51:27] <alex_joni> heh.. too early ?
[16:51:28] <alex_joni> :D
[16:51:34] <cradek> yeah, 10:16
[16:51:35] <alex_joni> not enough coffee?
[16:51:39] <cradek> no coffee yet!
[16:51:45] <alex_joni> right.. there you go
[16:51:54] <cradek> yeah.
[16:53:40] <Jymmm> Got Jolt?
[16:58:13] <alex_joni> wot?
[17:02:14] <anonimasu> joltcola..
[17:02:26] <alex_joni> what's that?
[17:02:28] <Jymmm> http://www.joltcola.com/
[17:02:35] <anonimasu> dont tell me you've never had jolt..
[17:02:37] <anonimasu> wuzz. :D
[17:02:38] <alex_joni> nope
[17:03:00] <anonimasu> something with lots of caffeine
[17:05:30] <rayh> I drank jolt for years -- long ago!
[17:05:52] <Jymmm> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/9692/joltcola.html
[17:06:50] <alex_joni> not available around here..
[17:12:34] <Jymmm> Never realized that Transylvania is in romania
[17:13:35] <alex_joni> Jymmm: really..
[17:14:03] <Jymmm> alex_joni So yes, all the bad dracula jokes will begin shortly
[17:15:16] <Jymmm> and will include Frankestein, Werewolf, the mummy, and all the other hollywood horror creatures.
[17:15:27] <Jymmm> at least till November 1
[17:15:44] <alex_joni> ok..
[17:15:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni prepares
[17:15:47] <alex_joni> :D
[17:19:42] <Jymmm> alex_joni here ya go... you can order yourself some http://www.frozencpu.com/caf-05.html?id=mQaodxEt
[17:23:35] <alex_joni> ty
[17:23:40] <alex_joni> but shipping might be a bit much
[17:29:02] <rayh> wow. you guys don't know how lucky you are with high speed connections. This is awesome.
[17:29:14] <alex_joni> heh.. seems rayh got addicted
[17:29:15] <alex_joni> :D
[17:29:30] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders how long it will take till rayh will have a highspeed at home
[17:29:31] <alex_joni> :D
[17:33:56] <Jymmm> rayh: At my gf's... we tried microwave, cable, dsl, nada. Until they put in fiber optic cable in 3 years later, then we could get DSL
[17:34:32] <alex_joni> :P
[18:31:39] <rayh> Thanks for that report, Jymmm.
[18:31:57] <Jymmm> rayh wasn't meant to rub it in at all
[18:32:16] <rayh> One phone company put in fiber optic along the county road this summer.
[18:32:22] <rayh> only 1.5 miles to go.
[18:33:26] <alex_joni> that's not far
[18:50:51] <rayh> Got 4.30 installed on athalon 64, compiled emc2, and running test program.
[18:50:55] <rayh> Looks good.
[18:51:01] <alex_joni> nice
[18:51:14] <alex_joni> what are your plans with it?
[18:51:46] <rayh> Got a customer that wants to run with this PC configuration.
[18:52:36] <rayh> I'll do a bunch of testing for stability during this week and if it passes, we'll use it on the Mazak.
[18:53:36] <alex_joni> nice
[18:53:43] <alex_joni> so it's emc2 all the way
[18:54:03] <rayh> You bet for this Mazak.
[18:54:26] <rayh> I'll start testing classicladder Monday.
[18:54:44] <alex_joni> nice, let me (us) know how it works
[18:54:54] <rayh> We are using a vital motenc lite for the motion
[18:55:03] <alex_joni> I remember..
[18:55:10] <rayh> Will do.
[18:55:12] <alex_joni> and another card for IO
[18:55:15] <alex_joni> iirc
[18:55:36] <rayh> TomP wrote up a big set of web pages with much of the mechanical.
[18:56:09] <rayh> I'm working on wiring diagrams now.
[18:59:08] <Jymmm> using what?
[19:00:02] <alex_joni> pen & paper
[19:00:03] <alex_joni> :P
[19:00:12] <Jymmm> vital motenc lite
[19:01:30] <rayh> Rough sketches right now dxf when I figure out how.
[19:01:55] <rayh> <Jymmm> vital motenc lite???
[19:02:02] <Jymmm> what is it?
[19:02:29] <alex_joni> it's a board
[19:02:34] <alex_joni> with emc2 driver for it
[19:02:47] <alex_joni> google it up
[19:03:03] <alex_joni> http://www.vitalsystem.com/
[19:03:11] <weyland> howdy boys
[19:03:19] <alex_joni> 'lo
[19:04:56] <alex_joni> darn this wiki is driving me crazy
[19:05:09] <alex_joni> anyone knows how to put a picture in a page?
[19:05:15] <rayh> What's going on with it?
[19:05:37] <weyland> I used the html <img src= tags
[19:05:59] <rayh> I have not tried the upload menu item but it is supposed to return a url to the uploaded image
[19:06:10] <Jymmm> <img src="http://playboy.com/logo.jpg" width="120" height="120" border="0" alt="Playboy Corp, All Rights Reserved">
[19:06:29] <rayh> That url can be put right into the text.
[19:06:45] <rayh> There was a sample image url in the sandbox.
[19:07:13] <alex_joni> yup
[19:07:25] <alex_joni> the problem was that my image was using UPPERCASE
[19:07:40] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Alex_Joni's_Toy
[19:08:44] <weyland> I've got a new problem that I need to see if anyone else is experiencing
[19:08:51] <rayh> Oh. Hadn't thought of that. I think there is a markup that could get you around that issue.
[19:08:51] <alex_joni> wot kind?
[19:09:03] <alex_joni> rayh: I simply renamed the image
[19:09:03] <Jymmm> ok, so what is the pulse rate of the vital motenc lite?
[19:09:11] <alex_joni> it's analog Jymmm
[19:09:21] <rayh> It is a servo only board.
[19:09:26] <Jymmm> oh
[19:09:28] <Jymmm> bah
[19:09:29] <weyland> new installation from latest BDI, with EMC2 installation within that, using the exact method described on the pages
[19:09:31] <weyland> ...
[19:09:39] <alex_joni> and?
[19:09:43] <alex_joni> weyland: and?
[19:09:49] <Jymmm> alex_joni you ever get that USC card up and going properly?
[19:09:53] <weyland> EMC2 is VERRRRRRRRRY slow to respond to key strokes and...
[19:10:01] <weyland> I can't seem to get it out of estop
[19:10:07] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I have no USC card, anonimasu has
[19:10:11] <alex_joni> weyland: that's strange
[19:10:24] <Jymmm> strike two
[19:10:25] <alex_joni> latest emc2 from CVS?
[19:10:26] <weyland> EMC1 responds fine
[19:10:27] <weyland> yes
[19:10:32] <Jymmm> anonimasu you ever get that USC card up and going properly?
[19:10:40] <alex_joni> Jymmm: he's not here
[19:10:48] <weyland> just did another fresh install today
[19:10:49] <alex_joni> but I think that he did, only with emc1
[19:10:59] <alex_joni> weyland: and it builds just fine?
[19:11:06] <weyland> yep, no complaints
[19:11:15] <alex_joni> any warnings?
[19:11:20] <weyland> just VERRRRRY slow, and can't get movement
[19:11:45] <alex_joni> hmm.. I only have 4.20 over here
[19:11:48] <alex_joni> didn't put the latest
[19:11:50] <weyland> didn't se any, but to be honest wasn't keeping an eye out for them, as it's always just worked
[19:12:08] <alex_joni> try make -s
[19:12:17] <alex_joni> make clean
[19:12:18] <alex_joni> make -s
[19:12:23] <weyland> hmmmm... okay
[19:12:28] <weyland> be right baq
[19:14:44] <weyland> ahhhh...
[19:15:05] <alex_joni> what?
[19:15:15] <weyland> WARNING: Symbol version dump /usr/src/kernel-source-
[19:15:16] <weyland> is missing; modules will have no dependencies and modversions
[19:15:22] <alex_joni> that's ok
[19:15:31] <weyland> thats all so far
[19:15:55] <rayh> weyland: I don't see any problem with responsiveness here.
[19:16:17] <weyland> man... it's REALLY SLOW to repsond to keystrokes
[19:16:21] <weyland> I times it -
[19:16:23] <weyland> timed
[19:16:40] <weyland> takes 6 seconds from the time I click a button or keystroke it
[19:16:50] <weyland> instant in EMC1
[19:16:50] <alex_joni> try increasing PERIOD
[19:17:33] <weyland> which?
[19:17:39] <weyland> display
[19:17:40] <alex_joni> the one in the .ini
[19:17:40] <weyland> ?
[19:17:42] <rayh> Does emc2 take is fastest thread time from PERIOD?
[19:17:46] <alex_joni> BASE_PERIOD
[19:17:51] <alex_joni> yup
[19:17:58] <weyland> okay, brb
[19:18:08] <rayh> it's (typoing 101 again)
[19:18:22] <alex_joni> how so?
[19:22:30] <weyland> hrmmm...
[19:22:39] <weyland> that helped a little bit
[19:22:45] <weyland> still can't get it out of esrtop
[19:22:56] <weyland> what have I forgotten?
[19:23:05] <weyland> (in the last two months)
[19:23:06] <alex_joni> load an halmeter
[19:23:14] <weyland> aroo?
[19:23:19] <alex_joni> and look at iocontrol.0.estop-in
[19:23:28] <alex_joni> emc2/bin/halmeter
[19:23:38] <rayh> Okay I see three BASE_PERIOD, SERVO_PERIOD, and TRAJ_PERIOD.
[19:25:09] <alex_joni> right ray
[19:25:14] <weyland> RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory
[19:25:14] <weyland> HAL: ERROR: rtapi init failed
[19:25:16] <alex_joni> BASE is the most inner loop
[19:25:26] <alex_joni> weyland: that sounds bad
[19:25:39] <alex_joni> when did that happen?
[19:25:54] <weyland> when I tried to load the halnmeter
[19:26:11] <alex_joni> try halcmd show
[19:26:22] <weyland> I navigfated to the directory and ./halmeter
[19:26:29] <alex_joni> right
[19:26:33] <alex_joni> try ./halcmd show
[19:26:38] <weyland> okay
[19:26:40] <weyland> brb
[19:26:41] <alex_joni> I suppose emc2 is running all the way
[19:26:57] <alex_joni> I mean, you didn't try to run halmeter with emc2 stopped
[19:27:01] <alex_joni> did you?
[19:27:53] <weyland> <sheepishly> Yes....
[19:27:56] <weyland> got it now
[19:28:01] <alex_joni> :P
[19:28:12] <alex_joni> ok, at least it's not that borked :)
[19:28:14] <weyland> what am I looking for?
[19:28:23] <alex_joni> look for iocontroller.0.estop-in
[19:28:27] <alex_joni> if you can find it :)
[19:28:32] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is typing from memory
[19:28:36] <alex_joni> might be iocontrol.
[19:29:28] <alex_joni> iocontrol.0.estop-in it is
[19:29:35] <alex_joni> errr.. ~# ifconfig
[19:29:35] <alex_joni> eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:02:44:1F:23:AF
[19:29:40] <alex_joni> oopsy
[19:29:53] <alex_joni> iocontrol.0.estop_in actually
[19:30:19] <weyland> no, I don't se anything like that
[19:30:35] <alex_joni> look at the emc.ini
[19:30:44] <weyland> okay, brb
[19:30:59] <alex_joni> and check what
[19:30:59] <alex_joni> [EMCIO]
[19:30:59] <alex_joni> # Name of IO controller program, e.g., io
[19:30:59] <alex_joni> #EMCIO = simio
[19:30:59] <alex_joni> EMCIO = io
[19:31:07] <alex_joni> EMCIO should be set to io, not simio
[19:32:25] <weyland> it is
[19:32:34] <weyland> and all I can find is the estop sense line
[19:32:38] <weyland> it's set to 1
[19:32:45] <weyland> shold that be 0?
[19:32:56] <weyland> thought I recalled something like that
[19:33:14] <alex_joni> emc2 shouldn't have any estop connected
[19:33:31] <alex_joni> but.. it troubles me that you don't see iocontrol.0. running
[19:33:45] <alex_joni> how does the overall system behave while emc2 is running?
[19:33:54] <alex_joni> also slow? or only emc2 is slow?
[19:33:58] <weyland> everything else seems to be humming right along
[19:34:04] <weyland> onlt emc2
[19:34:07] <weyland> only
[19:34:08] <alex_joni> hmm.. strange
[19:34:16] <alex_joni> ok.. lets rewind a bit
[19:34:21] <weyland> oh wait...
[19:34:24] <alex_joni> can you post me the messages during load?
[19:34:40] <weyland> maybe I screwed the pooch here
[19:34:54] <alex_joni> with what?
[19:34:56] <weyland> has anything changed recently with regard to the ini?
[19:35:11] <weyland> I took for granted that everything was teh same
[19:35:11] <alex_joni> not sure, but it's definately different from emc1
[19:35:21] <alex_joni> try to cvs up a recent one
[19:35:31] <weyland> so I grabbed the old ini I had from my last emc2
[19:35:48] <alex_joni> so still emc2, it "should" be ok..
[19:35:53] <weyland> okay
[19:35:55] <alex_joni> can you send it over?
[19:35:59] <weyland> sure
[19:36:05] <weyland> lost yer addy, though
[19:36:16] <alex_joni> dcc?
[19:38:00] <Jacky^> :)
[19:38:27] <Jacky^> can you hep me to install kde ?
[19:38:28] <weyland> baq now
[19:38:37] <alex_joni> sent the addy in prv
[19:38:40] <Jacky^> yes, close before all apps ..
[19:38:50] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ is quit*
[19:38:53] <Jacky^> :D
[19:39:17] <alex_joni> Jacky^: wanna quit?
[19:39:44] <Jacky^> has
[19:39:47] <Jacky^> :P
[19:39:57] <alex_joni> I mean if you want to quit :)
[19:40:12] <Jacky^> nah
[19:40:32] <Jacky^> i wonder why kde wont run if disk is full ..
[19:40:33] <alex_joni> we could arrange that
[19:40:35] <Jacky^> :\
[19:40:45] <alex_joni> need for temp files?
[19:40:46] <Jacky^> 100% in use
[19:40:49] <Jacky^> :)
[19:40:55] <Jacky^> damn hd
[19:41:00] <Jacky^> only 1 gb ..
[19:41:16] <alex_joni> weyland: the same problem when running tkemc?
[19:41:18] <alex_joni> or axis?
[19:41:38] <weyland> dunno, haven't gotten to think that far ahead
[19:41:45] <weyland> lemme go try
[19:42:26] <alex_joni> hmm.. iocontrol must be running
[19:42:35] <alex_joni> or else you would have gotten errors during loading
[19:42:58] <alex_joni> as iocontrol.0.spindle-on is connected to parport.0.pin-09-out
[19:43:42] <alex_joni> weyland: there is a problem in the ini
[19:43:52] <alex_joni> change the line: TOOL_TABLE = emc.tbl
[19:44:14] <alex_joni> to TOOL_TABLE = configs/emc.tbl
[19:49:56] <weyland> okay, did that, it's a little better
[19:50:07] <weyland> now I cvan control the estop, but am geting joint errors
[19:50:22] <alex_joni> following errors?
[19:50:28] <alex_joni> put the original period back in place
[19:50:43] <alex_joni> it was a wild goose
[19:52:43] <weyland> damn, still getting following errors
[19:52:57] <weyland> what could have changed?
[19:52:58] <alex_joni> ok.. looking at your settings
[19:53:10] <weyland> slamming me head now
[19:53:17] <weyland> everything should still be the same
[19:53:41] <weyland> its not like I changed the ini before I dsopped it in the direcrtory
[19:54:03] <alex_joni> how about renaming it, and getting a fresh out of cvs?
[19:54:11] <alex_joni> just to make sure it's not an emc2 issue?
[19:54:23] <weyland> I'm kewl with that
[19:54:27] <weyland> how do I get it?
[19:54:36] <alex_joni> rename the emc.ini
[19:54:40] <weyland> done
[19:54:41] <alex_joni> and do a cvs up
[19:54:45] <weyland> okay
[19:56:16] <alex_joni> is the new one there?
[19:57:15] <Jymmm> It's seems to be commonplace, but to step generators *HAVE* to have some sort of driver? I mena, the paraport itself doesn't actually need a driver, why does a stepGen?
[19:57:41] <Jymmm> s/to/do/
[19:58:17] <alex_joni> depends on the step gen
[19:58:20] <alex_joni> there are 2 kinds
[19:58:24] <alex_joni> software only
[19:58:30] <alex_joni> and hardware ones
[19:58:38] <alex_joni> and otoh, the parport does need to have a driver
[19:58:40] <weyland> just got it, but it's till sroloing things bvy
[19:58:46] <weyland> scrolling things
[19:58:49] <alex_joni> ok
[19:58:58] <alex_joni> let it scroll, let it scroll, let it scroll
[20:00:12] <Jymmm> alex_joni I wouldn't mind the USC board (as example) if it wasn't specifically emc based. I'd like sort of hardware only (no drivers) step gen.
[20:00:15] <weyland> Sing it, man, Sing it... You rock. Houston, we have movement...
[20:00:37] <Jymmm> alex_joni I've been burned far too often to get/buy/use propritary hardware.
[20:00:50] <weyland> Gotta tweak a few things, but looks to work.
[20:01:02] <weyland> Lemme try that
[20:01:05] <alex_joni> weyland: probably something borked on that ini
[20:01:20] <weyland> Hadda be, but can't imagine *WHAT*...
[20:01:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni would suspect too low accel along with backlash
[20:01:39] <weyland> hrmmmm...
[20:01:46] <weyland> lemme play and let ya know
[20:01:57] <alex_joni> afaik nowadays backlash takes teh accel limits into consideration
[20:02:04] <alex_joni> anyways.. glad it works
[20:02:06] <weyland> why is it that computers only blow up when you need them?
[20:02:12] <alex_joni> :P
[20:02:15] <weyland> Thanks Alex
[20:02:24] <Jymmm> weyland murphy is a dead man when I catch him
[20:02:25] <alex_joni> because at other times they are switched off
[20:02:29] <weyland> I'll be baq inna while with a report
[20:02:37] <weyland> :)
[20:02:58] <weyland> l8r and thanks - baq l8r
[20:05:28] <Jymmm> * Jymmm pokes alex_joni
[20:06:53] <alex_joni> what?
[20:07:16] <Jymmm> alex_joni I've been burned far too often to get/buy/use propritary hardware.
[20:07:33] <alex_joni> and?
[20:07:33] <Jymmm> but I cant find a stepgen like I desc
[20:07:39] <alex_joni> I see
[20:07:57] <Jymmm> thats why I was asking *IF* it even exists
[20:08:06] <Jymmm> (technically that is)
[20:10:02] <alex_joni> ok.. rewind
[20:10:04] <alex_joni> what do you need?
[20:10:38] <Jymmm> a pure hw based stepgen that can connect to paraport and give me at least 100KHz
[20:12:51] <alex_joni> sounds like the USC
[20:13:00] <alex_joni> but also the G-rex
[20:13:05] <alex_joni> but that's not fully done yet
[20:13:18] <Jymmm> so there are no others out there?
[20:14:36] <alex_joni> probably a bunch
[20:14:44] <alex_joni> these are the ones I know of
[20:14:55] <alex_joni> and USC is probably the best choice if you want to use emc
[20:15:08] <alex_joni> actually a wide range of devices from PICO
[20:15:18] <alex_joni> http://www.pico-systems.com/motion.html
[20:17:09] <Jymmm> again, I'd prefer a pure HW device, not HW + driver/SW
[20:17:29] <alex_joni> well.. you need smthg to drive it
[20:17:41] <alex_joni> if you want pure HW get a controller
[20:17:45] <Jymmm> paraport preferably
[20:17:52] <alex_joni> like a burny
[20:18:01] <Jymmm> burny?
[20:18:06] <alex_joni> yeah... but still you need some software to talk through the parport
[20:18:33] <Jymmm> well, take the xylotex board I have... anything can talk to it, no drivers for it.
[20:18:57] <alex_joni> and? does it do step generating?
[20:19:03] <Jymmm> I just need a clean pulse train, why does that need to have a driver of some sort is what I dont understand.
[20:19:12] <alex_joni> it doesn't
[20:19:24] <Jymmm> ok, so where can I find such an animal
[20:19:27] <alex_joni> it needs smthg to tell it what the pulse train should look like
[20:19:27] <Jymmm> ?
[20:19:35] <Jymmm> well
[20:19:38] <alex_joni> and for that there is no standard
[20:19:45] <alex_joni> some use parport, some usb
[20:19:55] <Jymmm> setting up switchs or shell to it is no biggy
[20:20:00] <alex_joni> but even for parport: some use epp, some direct connections, etc
[20:20:23] <alex_joni> the thing is: the HW device is usually inteligent
[20:20:28] <alex_joni> and uses a protocol to talk to the PC
[20:20:32] <alex_joni> or to get the commands
[20:20:47] <alex_joni> and the "driver" is actually the software that implements that protocol
[20:22:08] <Jymmm> why is a protocol needed at all? can't a stepGen be a passive device (once configured)?
[20:22:22] <alex_joni> it gets data
[20:22:25] <alex_joni> agreed?
[20:22:32] <Jymmm> of course
[20:22:41] <alex_joni> then it needs a protocol for that data
[20:22:49] <alex_joni> even rs232 is a protocol
[20:23:01] <Jymmm> but no driver is needed for RS-232
[20:23:10] <alex_joni> right, because it's done in HW
[20:23:15] <Jymmm> exactly
[20:23:22] <Jymmm> that's all I'm asking for
[20:23:23] <alex_joni> the assembly of bits
[20:23:24] <Jymmm> pure hw
[20:23:32] <alex_joni> ok.. then you need a new mobo
[20:23:39] <alex_joni> with your pure HW driver on it
[20:23:48] <Jymmm> ok, where do I buy
[20:23:50] <alex_joni> before the parport
[20:23:55] <alex_joni> you build, you don't buy
[20:24:01] <alex_joni> there is no such thing
[20:24:04] <Jymmm> bah
[20:24:32] <Jymmm> ok, so what is the limitation of paraport the protocol?
[20:24:38] <Jymmm> ok, so what is the limitation of paraport, the protocol?
[20:24:43] <alex_joni> probably
[20:24:49] <alex_joni> but that's not a real limitation
[20:24:55] <alex_joni> the only thing is to figure out what you want
[20:25:02] <alex_joni> and look at the existing solutions
[20:25:03] <Jymmm> so a PCI/ISA device could do 100KHz pulse train?
[20:25:22] <alex_joni> if it has a HW step generator on it, surely
[20:25:30] <alex_joni> it could do 10 MHz pulses
[20:25:43] <Jymmm> but why can't the paraport?
[20:25:47] <alex_joni> but that same HW gen. can be in the PC (on a PCI/ISA) or externally
[20:26:04] <Jymmm> but you said a pure hw dev doesn't exist
[20:26:05] <alex_joni> the parport by itself can't do that speed
[20:26:05] <alex_joni> because of timing limitations
[20:26:10] <alex_joni> right
[20:26:19] <Jymmm> ok, timing... of the chipset?
[20:26:26] <alex_joni> of the ISA bus
[20:26:35] <alex_joni> because the parport is hooked up to the isa bus
[20:26:38] <Jymmm> so now the ISA bus can't do 100KHz?
[20:26:43] <alex_joni> nope
[20:26:49] <Jymmm> but PIC can?
[20:26:51] <Jymmm> PCI
[20:26:57] <alex_joni> PCI doesn't work that way
[20:27:07] <alex_joni> PCI can be set up to use "smart" transfers
[20:27:12] <Jymmm> ?
[20:27:13] <alex_joni> that might increase performance
[20:27:18] <alex_joni> DMA for instance
[20:27:20] <Jymmm> ah
[20:27:27] <alex_joni> you get throughput..
[20:27:43] <alex_joni> but if you still send commands one by one (set pulse high, set pulse low, etc)
[20:27:49] <alex_joni> then you get bad performance
[20:27:57] <Jymmm> ok, hold on a sec...
[20:28:33] <Jymmm> BASICALLY... what is a stepGen that's connected to a paraport actually doing, that the paraport alone isn't?
[20:28:50] <alex_joni> it is an entity by itseld
[20:28:50] <alex_joni> itself
[20:28:55] <alex_joni> if is somehow inteligent
[20:29:25] <Jymmm> ok, so a stepgen is sorta like a debounce circuit
[20:29:30] <alex_joni> it gets a prescription, and then generates pulses
[20:29:30] <alex_joni> the parport needs to be written by software
[20:29:32] <alex_joni> like what?
[20:29:47] <alex_joni> lets take an example
[20:29:48] <Jymmm> button/switch debounce
[20:30:02] <alex_joni> to send a pulse out of the parport
[20:30:09] <alex_joni> 1. set the parport pin 1 to 0
[20:30:12] <alex_joni> 2. wait a bit
[20:30:19] <alex_joni> 3. set the parport pin 1 to 1
[20:30:20] <Jymmm> as long as some signal is present, a clean output will be produced
[20:30:22] <alex_joni> 4. wait a bit
[20:30:23] <alex_joni> etc.
[20:30:34] <alex_joni> 1 and 3 are done by some software
[20:30:45] <Jymmm> 0 == ___________________
[20:30:46] <alex_joni> by writing the data to a memory location (inside the PC)
[20:30:52] <alex_joni> right
[20:31:09] <Jymmm> 1 == --------/\/\\\////\\/\_-------++++
[20:31:14] <Jymmm> ugly pulse
[20:31:29] <alex_joni> the parport usually doesn't need a driver, because way back it was mapped into the PC memory
[20:31:42] <Jymmm> so, as long as ANY ugle signal is received, a continous clena pulse is generated, correct?
[20:31:45] <alex_joni> so outb(0x00, 0x378) actually turns all pins to 0
[20:31:52] <alex_joni> hang on
[20:31:55] <alex_joni> I'll get there
[20:32:04] <alex_joni> did you get how the parport stuff works?
[20:32:17] <alex_joni> a loop like this:
[20:32:18] <Jymmm> paraport == hw mapped
[20:32:24] <alex_joni> outb(0x00, 0x378)
[20:32:31] <alex_joni> outb(0x01, 0x378)
[20:32:32] <alex_joni> outb(0x00, 0x378)
[20:32:33] <alex_joni> outb(0x01, 0x378)
[20:32:34] <alex_joni> outb(0x00, 0x378)
[20:32:35] <alex_joni> outb(0x01, 0x378)
[20:32:39] <alex_joni> that's a pulse train
[20:32:43] <Jymmm> ok
[20:32:51] <alex_joni> the actual output on the parport switches from 0 to 1
[20:32:51] <Jymmm> outb(0x01, 0x378)
[20:32:51] <Jymmm> [11:57:47] <alex_joni> that's a pulse train
[20:32:59] <Jymmm> (sorry)
[20:33:06] <alex_joni> the whole sequence is a pulse train
[20:33:17] <Jymmm> right, out addr 0x378
[20:33:24] <alex_joni> in this case about 1 usec between the pulses (that's how long the outb takes)
[20:33:42] <alex_joni> ok.. now imagine you have a black box
[20:33:50] <alex_joni> the external HW stepgen
[20:33:53] <Jymmm> k
[20:33:57] <alex_joni> it is connected to the parport
[20:34:03] <alex_joni> and there is a software talking to it
[20:34:18] <alex_joni> and the software says: I need 1253 pulses at 12.34 kHz
[20:34:35] <alex_joni> then the black box starts generating those pulses
[20:34:43] <alex_joni> after that it says.. I finished
[20:34:58] <alex_joni> and the software says: now I need 234 pulses at 1.5 kHz
[20:35:00] <alex_joni> and so on..
[20:35:11] <alex_joni> got it so far?
[20:35:23] <alex_joni> and the way they talk to each other is the protocol
[20:35:24] <Jymmm> but you're expecting full duplex communication
[20:35:34] <alex_joni> not necessarely.. but I used that example
[20:35:39] <alex_joni> it can be single sided
[20:35:40] <Jymmm> the xylotex is Rx only.
[20:35:46] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[20:35:51] <alex_joni> the xylotex is not a HW stepgen
[20:36:42] <alex_joni> the xylotex is a motor-driver
[20:36:46] <Jymmm> does the stepGen HAVE to be RT? Could it just play tivo ( instead?
[20:37:11] <alex_joni> I think your mixing things here
[20:37:15] <Jymmm> maybe
[20:37:19] <alex_joni> the stepgen is a custom hardware
[20:37:24] <alex_joni> usually there is a counter in there
[20:37:31] <alex_joni> and a comparator
[20:38:37] <alex_joni> but that's not important
[20:38:46] <alex_joni> the HW stepgen is doing one thing: outputting pulses
[20:38:57] <alex_joni> those pulses you connect to your xylotex
[20:39:18] <alex_joni> the same pulses can come from a PC running some sort of RT software (be it emc, or any other)
[20:39:42] <alex_joni> it is certainly better if the pulses are generated in HW (not in SW) but it's more expensive
[20:40:01] <alex_joni> as you have dedicated hardware doing only one thing (generating pulses)
[20:42:26] <Jymmm> okey....
[20:42:57] <alex_joni> so.. the USC is basicly a hardware that outputs steps
[20:43:05] <alex_joni> but as it is it is pretty dumb
[20:43:09] <alex_joni> it can only do that
[20:43:19] <alex_joni> someone needs to tell it what steprate it needs to generate
[20:43:22] <Jymmm> So, the limitation of a paraport is dues to the way it's (legacy) mapped to chipset. It was never designed to put out a 100KHz pulse train.
[20:43:28] <alex_joni> right
[20:44:57] <icee> though with ECP, DMA, and a small amount of external circuitry you could do very well
[20:45:16] <alex_joni> icee: yes, but you'd still have a proprietary solution
[20:45:39] <icee> alex: hmm? why do you say that?
[20:45:45] <icee> all you'd need is an external clock and a latch
[20:45:55] <Jymmm> So as long as the USC sees a pulse train be it 0001.11111.111 it'll output a CLEANEDUP pulse with the same counts as it received: 000111111111 ???
[20:46:09] <Jymmm> . == garbage
[20:46:12] <Jymmm> lag, etc
[20:46:22] <alex_joni> Jymmm: no
[20:46:29] <alex_joni> the USC doesn't see a pulse train
[20:46:33] <alex_joni> it generates one
[20:46:52] <alex_joni> it gets a command: generate 3x0 and 9x1
[20:47:00] <icee> alex: If you're building a piece of hardware to generate steps
[20:47:09] <alex_joni> with a frequency of 2300 pulses / second
[20:47:14] <icee> you really ought to keep track of position (step count), and send that back periodically
[20:47:21] <icee> and take commands with acceleration rates and target velocities
[20:47:22] <alex_joni> icee: I know
[20:47:37] <icee> e.g. pretend you're a servo
[20:47:42] <Jymmm> ok above you said outb(blah,blah) x number of times. But with the USC it's a single command not multiple ones to achive the pulse train?
[20:48:52] <alex_joni> right
[20:49:19] <alex_joni> that's why that solution is faster
[20:49:25] <Jymmm> becasue it takes 2uS per command
[20:49:41] <Jymmm> (iirc)
[20:49:47] <alex_joni> yes, and because that command contains what would have been 200 pulses
[20:50:05] <alex_joni> and 200 pulses would have been 400 commands to the parport
[20:50:06] <Jymmm> ok, I get it now
[20:50:31] <Jymmm> Ok, now... what about my ugly pulse == clean pulse thingy?
[20:50:50] <alex_joni> that is generaly done by a debouncer as you said
[20:51:00] <alex_joni> but usually that part gets skipped
[20:51:00] <alex_joni> :D
[20:51:09] <Jymmm> right, but is that so bad for mot ctrl?
[20:51:11] <icee> output from a parallel port is usually relatively clean
[20:51:27] <alex_joni> it is very bad to have lost pulses
[20:51:32] <icee> espc if the cable is of a reasonable length
[20:51:47] <alex_joni> and shielded properly
[20:52:29] <Jymmm> in emc, what is the paraport "driver"?
[20:53:12] <jepler> Jymmm: "outb"
[20:53:27] <Jymmm> no, it's some name in the ini file
[20:53:33] <jepler> oh oh
[20:53:46] <jepler> sorry, I misunderstood.
[20:53:57] <Jymmm> jepler thats ok, so did I =)
[20:54:12] <alex_joni> Jymmm: we get to a nice topic
[20:54:16] <alex_joni> what kind of emc?
[20:54:17] <alex_joni> :D
[20:54:21] <Jymmm> 1
[20:54:32] <alex_joni> emc1 has a few of "drivers" that write to parport
[20:54:46] <Jymmm> well what is talking to my paraport then?
[20:54:51] <alex_joni> but basicly freqmod
[20:54:59] <Jymmm> ok, that's it freqmod
[20:55:02] <alex_joni> also steppermod
[20:55:06] <alex_joni> and steppersegmod
[20:55:17] <Jymmm> and the difference between them?
[20:55:33] <alex_joni> steppermod runs on RTLinux only (not on RTAI)
[20:55:51] <alex_joni> freqmod wraps a PID around the steppers, and you can tune it like a servo
[20:56:07] <alex_joni> steppersegmod is the steppermod extended with segmentqueue
[20:57:02] <alex_joni> in case you're wondering: segmentqueue is an advanced blending software, that never worked as it should
[20:57:10] <Jymmm> ty =)
[21:00:13] <alex_joni> Jymmm: any time
[21:04:49] <Jymmm> man, using the ext numpad as apendant really works out well.
[21:05:48] <alex_joni> it does? cool
[21:05:57] <alex_joni> could you set up a page describing that?
[21:06:10] <alex_joni> a short wiki.. with a few pics would be great
[21:09:13] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hates wikis
[21:09:30] <Jymmm> bounch o' electronic post-it notes.
[21:09:32] <alex_joni> how about an email to me? and I'll do the wiki then?
[21:09:48] <alex_joni> yeah.. but others benefit from it
[21:10:02] <Jymmm> actually, if you're using axis, he put it in there
[21:10:21] <alex_joni> what are you talking about?
[21:10:39] <Jymmm> http://axis.unpythonic.net/index.cgi/
[21:11:06] <Jymmm> jepler added the NUMPAD mapping to axis
[21:11:15] <alex_joni> ahh.. nice
[21:11:19] <alex_joni> for him to do that ;)
[21:12:04] <Jymmm> in minimill it's ok, by tkemc, well JUST SAY NO!
[21:12:09] <Jymmm> s/by/but/
[21:14:26] <Jymmm> bbiab
[21:18:44] <jepler> K`zan: I've posted that AVR program that cradek mentioned last night
[21:18:50] <jepler> K`zan: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi/projects/01129403515
[21:26:31] <K`zan> jepler: Got it, thanks ***VERY*** much :-)!
[21:27:12] <K`zan> Was looking at using a Tiny13 to do a single axis. Or possibly a Tiny2313 so I'd have some extra pins for whatever.
[21:27:47] <K`zan> Now I have something to look at, so I may well change my approach :)
[21:30:22] <cradek> hi jeff
[21:31:15] <alex_joni> hey chris
[21:31:15] <cradek> jepler: that's an old version - a lot of things are different in the final one
[21:31:23] <alex_joni> wondered when you're gonna show up
[21:31:38] <alex_joni> seing jeff around..
[21:31:45] <alex_joni> seeing jeff around...
[21:31:52] <alex_joni> and you two usually running in pairs :D
[21:31:59] <cradek> well, I saw my name go by.
[21:32:42] <alex_joni> heh.. :)
[21:33:04] <alex_joni> congrats about beeing mentioned on opengl.org
[21:33:24] <cradek> thanks
[21:34:08] <alex_joni> jepler: seems there's a small problem with one of your links
[21:34:09] <alex_joni> http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/http:/sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=7989777&forum_id=33140
[21:52:44] <Jymmm> I dont belive this crap... lastnight the stepper stalls, today it's fine. and I didn't do/change abything?!
[21:53:12] <alex_joni> maybe the air is less moist
[21:53:27] <Jymmm> actually, MORE moist today (rained this morning)
[21:53:37] <alex_joni> then maybe it's that
[21:53:58] <Jymmm> so I can only run my router when it's rainging?
[21:54:02] <Jymmm> rainging
[21:54:05] <Jymmm> raining
[21:54:32] <alex_joni> lol.. or you need to set up a sprinkler
[21:54:55] <Jymmm> cnc rainfall huh? Whats the g code for that?
[22:06:51] <alex_joni> R15 iirc
[22:08:32] <Jymmm> lol... that's 'make air moist' huh?
[22:09:33] <alex_joni> rain on it
[22:12:40] <alex_joni> Jymmm: what emc did you test?
[22:12:43] <alex_joni> BDI... ?
[22:38:48] <jepler> alex_joni: what page is that on? I'll fix it.
[22:39:20] <alex_joni> http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/
[22:39:35] <alex_joni> down at Paul C releases AXIS packages for BDI 4.20 By Jeff Epler
[22:40:47] <jepler> thanks for noticing. fixed.
[22:41:01] <jepler> cradek: do you have the newer version?
[22:41:13] <alex_joni> jepler: np
[22:43:24] <jepler> cradek: nevermind, I just read my e-mail
[22:45:53] <jepler> new version of maxnc.c now on that page
[22:46:15] <alex_joni> hi jeff
[22:51:55] <K`zan> got it, thanks much!
[22:57:48] <jepler> K`zan: good luck with that code
[22:57:55] <K`zan> THanks :-)!
[22:58:15] <K`zan> It really takes 16 MHz to keep up with EMC ?
[22:58:42] <jepler> depends on the step rate you need
[22:59:52] <K`zan> Heh, with these, it doesn't appear to be much, best I can get is about 1" in 10 sec.
[23:00:32] <K`zan> Well, I can get it down to about 7 sec before the stepper starts chattering.
[23:02:26] <alex_joni> http://www.thedailywtf.com/
[23:03:08] <jepler> based on my year-old recollection about the cycle times, I think that it's about 50x more speed than necessary for the 12 ipm * 8000 steps/inch mill it was used on...
[23:03:23] <jepler> and that's assuming that you have 4 axes all stepping
[23:03:40] <K`zan> gads, people still use IE ?!?!?
[23:03:54] <alex_joni> K`zan: so I've heard
[23:04:07] <jepler> so even using the on-board RC oscillator at 1MHz would probably be OK
[23:04:17] <K`zan> scary, reminds me of lemmings :-)
[23:10:04] <alex_joni> There's a UI WTF right there- you have to enable the disable option, rather than disabling an enable option. Sure, they're syntactically the same, but the second doesn't make yourself ask a question like "now do I not want it not to not show up?"