#emc | Logs for 2005-10-07

[00:00:14] <les> gee it's just a girl....heh
[00:00:47] <les> there's like 2.5 billion of them you know
[00:00:59] <Jacky^> leeeeessss
[00:01:05] <Jacky^> i love this life :P
[00:01:20] <les> haha that's good
[00:01:24] <Jacky^> :D
[00:03:04] <les> I was thinking...yeah 2.5 billion girls...but 2.2 billion of them are fat.
[00:03:16] <Jacky^> les: haha
[00:03:23] <Jacky^> nahhh
[00:07:44] <les> well, I am going to the music room!
[00:07:57] <les> bbiaw!
[00:08:09] <Jacky^> :P
[01:50:28] <Jacky^> :)
[03:06:04] <Jacky^> bedtime
[03:06:09] <Jacky^> g night
[03:45:13] <Jymmm> * Jymmm humps A-L-P-H-A
[03:45:22] <A-L-P-H-A> down boy.,
[03:45:24] <A-L-P-H-A> down.
[03:45:31] <Jymmm> arooooooooooooooooo?!
[03:48:25] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A http://photos.yahoo.com/jymmm
[03:52:21] <A-L-P-H-A> cool
[04:03:43] <Jymmm> ty, my very first part
[04:03:51] <A-L-P-H-A> not bad.
[04:04:18] <Jymmm> 8 minutes to machine, 3 hours to design/fight the software
[04:05:14] <Jymmm> 3/4" thick MDF, 2"x2"
[04:05:29] <Jymmm> each step is 1/16" wide/tall
[04:10:24] <K`zan> Evening all
[04:14:01] <A-L-P-H-A> hi K`zan
[04:26:33] <K`zan> Long time no chat :-) how goes ?
[04:26:48] <K`zan> Life slowly getting back to normal again...
[04:27:17] <K`zan> Built up a stepper motor controller using an AVR last night and started looking at EMC again.
[04:27:35] <K`zan> Still trying to find something on this standard controller.
[04:27:45] <K`zan> No luck so far :-(.
[04:30:59] <K`zan> Ok, I give up, is there a list of controllers that EMC will use or plans on how to build one ?
[04:35:21] <Jymmm> xylotex.com
[04:36:14] <Jymmm> 35V limit, INCLUDING BEMF
[04:36:31] <Jymmm> about 3A
[04:47:05] <K`zan> Jymmm: Thanks, google is less than useful.
[04:47:25] <K`zan> No plans, so I guess one has to but the interface :-(.
[04:58:23] <A-L-P-H-A> K`zan sorry. :) hi. again
[05:14:00] <K`zan> No problem A-L-P-H-A :-), been trying to find some plans for a controller than I can build, $175 is a bit expensive when one has all the tools and most of hte parts :).
[05:14:35] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[05:15:14] <K`zan> Wonder what people use the 4th axis for,
[05:16:53] <A-L-P-H-A> rotary
[05:17:03] <A-L-P-H-A> say you want to engrave something on a cylinder
[05:23:48] <Jymmm> K`zan google helped me find everything =) Mind you I did a lot of reading too
[06:58:06] <K`zan> Jymmm: Takes work these days with google, it has become more of a catalog than an information resource anymore :-(.
[06:58:26] <K`zan> Just roasted up about a pound of coffee, the place smells WONDERFUL :).
[07:00:39] <K`zan> A-L-P-H-A: I guess I have a LOT of reading to do if I am going to tackle my own controller. Serial would be nice, but not if parallel port speeds are needed.
[07:01:13] <K`zan> LOTs of reading to do. Bit more involved than just drawing up a piece, spitting it out on the paper tape punch and running that into a moog :).
[07:01:29] <K`zan> Yes, it has been a while :).
[07:02:08] <K`zan> live CD finished downloading, so I can burn that and play with it on this box.
[07:04:23] <K`zan> mv -v /home/vw/zdl/xBUI-Live_rc46.iso /home/tmp/isoarch
[07:15:14] <K`zan> Coolness, turbocnc works under dosemu!
[07:44:46] <Jymmm> K`zan : Just wait till you actually try to operate your steppers.... expect issues.
[08:05:14] <Jymmm> K`zan expect lost steps if you run under anything but REAL MODE.
[08:05:17] <Jymmm> G'Night Folks!
[08:17:34] <K`zan> Night folks!
[11:12:51] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (11 files in 10 dirs): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Fri Oct 7 10:36:01 BST 2005 "
[11:25:29] <an0n> hmm
[11:27:09] <an0n> what's up?
[11:31:50] <an0n> an0n is now known as anonimasu
[11:34:25] <les> hi anders
[11:34:38] <les> up at 0430 for another day!
[11:35:11] <anonimasu> lol
[11:35:17] <anonimasu> I woke up at 09:00
[11:35:24] <anonimasu> overslept..
[11:35:34] <les> some office work....some metal machining
[11:35:38] <anonimasu> but I ended up working until 01:20
[11:35:43] <anonimasu> *jealous*
[11:35:48] <anonimasu> I am just writing software
[11:36:09] <les> I have to do some on one job
[11:36:13] <les> a bit later
[11:36:15] <anonimasu> :)
[11:36:20] <anonimasu> it's quite fun though
[11:36:39] <les> and of course I have to convert the cnc for the new spindle
[11:36:46] <anonimasu> nice
[11:36:50] <les> may have to do a bit of rewiring
[11:36:52] <anonimasu> I still have my machine in molecules
[11:36:57] <les> heh
[11:37:03] <anonimasu> going to replace all bearings and a new spindle motor
[11:37:07] <anonimasu> 5kw I think..
[11:37:15] <anonimasu> and gear it for 10k/rpm
[11:37:41] <anonimasu> should handle alu much better then today
[11:38:00] <les> yeah this is 4 kW from 18-24000 rpm
[11:38:13] <anonimasu> :)
[11:38:16] <les> also should do alu well
[11:38:30] <anonimasu> I dont know about KW/speed..
[11:38:40] <les> runs at lower rpm, but not at the full power
[11:38:40] <anonimasu> or well, nm / speed..
[11:38:46] <anonimasu> yep..
[11:39:03] <les> it depends on the control programming
[11:39:04] <anonimasu> going to gear 1:3.5
[11:39:23] <anonimasu> and get a vfd with brake so I can overdrive it for a bit more momentum at high speeds..
[11:39:30] <les> for this below 18,000 I will go for constsnt torque
[11:39:34] <anonimasu> yep
[11:39:42] <anonimasu> that's most important
[11:39:58] <anonimasu> torque ~ kills parts
[11:40:20] <les> this thing has class 7 angular contact bearings
[11:40:48] <anonimasu> I have no idea what bearings I'll buy..
[11:40:52] <les> instructions say thet it is very important to warm it up 10 min at 9000 rpm before cutting
[11:40:56] <anonimasu> skf replacements.. :)
[11:41:01] <anonimasu> they'll cost a arm
[11:41:13] <les> class 7s do
[11:41:25] <les> several hundred $ a pair
[11:41:37] <anonimasu> :)
[11:42:10] <les> but accurate to .0025 mm
[11:42:29] <les> however housings and shafts have to be that accuracy too
[11:42:36] <les> or the bearings are wasted
[11:42:38] <anonimasu> yep
[11:43:49] <les> I am a little worried about running the 4 kW line in the flex conduit near all the encoder and signal lines
[11:45:29] <anonimasu> hehe yeah
[12:40:05] <Jymmm> These look real interesting http://oeiwcs.omron.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=387&prmenbr=316
[12:40:33] <Jymmm> limit switches or touch probe
[12:59:51] <Jymmm> about $32 USD for D5B-1513
[14:01:51] <Jymmm> hola Jacky^
[14:08:51] <Jacky^> hey Jymmm
[14:11:33] <Jymmm> Jacky^ my first part --> http://photos.yahoo.com/jymmm
[14:13:04] <Jacky^> looking
[14:13:33] <Jacky^> great :)
[14:13:39] <Jacky^> congrats ;)
[14:13:50] <Jacky^> what the material ? wood ?
[14:14:36] <Jymmm> TY. 8 minutes to machine, 3 hours to design. 3/4" thick MDF, 2" x 2", each 'step' is 1/16" tall and wide
[14:15:48] <Jacky^> good
[14:15:56] <Jacky^> it look nice :)
[14:16:25] <Jacky^> great thick too ..
[14:17:16] <Jymmm> hmmm???
[14:17:36] <Jacky^> thickess
[14:17:48] <Jacky^> my cnc cant worp up 2 cm
[14:17:53] <Jacky^> work*
[14:18:18] <Jymmm> Ah. My Z axis has a 5.5" travel on it.
[14:18:24] <Jacky^> good
[14:18:24] <Jymmm> well 5" iirc
[14:20:35] <Jymmm> did you buy a driver board yet?
[14:21:07] <Jacky^> not yet ..
[14:21:15] <Jacky^> i'm planning all before
[14:21:25] <Jacky^> ive not credit card
[14:21:42] <Jacky^> so i need to get some information on gecko about alternative payment
[14:22:11] <Jacky^> waiting my cousin too .. he maybe want to buy 3 g340 too ..
[14:22:27] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[14:22:49] <Jacky^> i get my cnc toy running ok now with emc2
[14:22:57] <Jacky^> so, i can wait some week
[14:23:07] <Jacky^> ill build a cnc 1,1 mt
[14:23:10] <Jacky^> 1x1
[14:23:37] <Jacky^> for me is simple ..
[14:23:45] <Jacky^> for my cousin not yet
[14:23:59] <Jacky^> it want to build 2 machine, first plasma machine
[14:24:14] <Jacky^> second cnc to work on metal ..
[14:26:18] <Jacky^> i concluded to buy all material new
[14:26:37] <Jacky^> excluding the servomotors.. i will try on ebay ..
[14:27:16] <Jymmm> motors are cheap, it's leadscrew and rails that are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[14:27:17] <Jacky^> and askins some quote from some italian productor ..
[14:27:58] <Jacky^> Jymmm: I know, les sayd the rails and bearing are up the 50% of total cost machine ..
[14:28:09] <Jacky^> it is true ..
[14:28:11] <Jymmm> I think more than that
[14:28:34] <Jacky^> but i want my machine running all day without break..
[14:28:55] <Jacky^> yeah ..
[16:53:37] <rayh-away> rayh-away is now known as rayh
[16:54:08] <rayh> got a clue what "/usr/include/glib-2.0/glib/gmessages.h:109: warning: `visibility' attribute directive ignored" means while compiling emc2?
[17:03:23] <jepler> rayh: it's just a warning, I'd ignore i
[17:03:24] <jepler> t
[19:31:18] <K`zan> Morning all
[19:34:17] <ValarQ> evening
[19:44:58] <Jymmm> Morning
[21:51:19] <K`zan> Jymmm: Per you comment from last night, I wouldn't be running the cnc stuff under a standard flavor of linux, would be a real time variant.
[21:52:08] <K`zan> Booted the live CD last night before I fell over, not sure what is going on with it (bad burn?) but LOTs of errors will try re-burning it again later today.
[21:52:29] <K`zan> Anyone have any comments on the controllers from:
[21:52:32] <K`zan> http://www.hobbycnc.com/
[21:52:59] <K`zan> LOT less expensive than the ones from http://xylotex.com/
[21:53:28] <K`zan> I think I am getting less confused about all this :), how is that for optomism ?
[22:00:10] <cradek> the hobbycnc boards are definitely affordable but they are unfortunately unipolar drivers
[22:01:23] <cradek> xylotex are bipolar but only 35V
[22:01:52] <cradek> actually the xylotex is cheaper than I thought - only $145
[22:02:15] <les> hig guys
[22:02:22] <cradek> hey les
[22:02:53] <les> ups just came with my colombo spindle. looks good!
[22:03:39] <les> have some wiring to do though.
[22:04:05] <jepler> yeah, when I was considering buying a minimill to retrofit, xylotex was one of the things I was looking at
[22:04:26] <jepler> but I'd probably use the same L297/8 boards as chris did
[22:05:02] <cradek> they're good, but lots of work to assemble, and only half-step
[22:05:16] <jepler> I don't mind the assembly .. much ..
[22:05:24] <cradek> although not microstepping is good with emc if you have fine leadscrews
[22:05:50] <cradek> I trust my boards more - it's easy to blow up these others I think.
[22:05:51] <jepler> while I was looking around, I got the impression that the xylotex is very sensitive to over-voltage, and that his board design heatsinks the driver chip inappropriately
[22:06:01] <K`zan> Building something up isn't the problem, it is figuring out what I need that is driving me nuts :)
[22:06:09] <cradek> jepler: yeah that
[22:06:18] <Jacky^> hello :)
[22:06:43] <K`zan> I wonder what that 4th axis is for, I can account easily for 3, but 4? SPindle speed?
[22:06:54] <cradek> K`zan: rotary
[22:07:08] <cradek> K`zan: http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/stepper-drivers
[22:07:11] <K`zan> It also appears that serial is out, this IS parallel country.
[22:07:36] <cradek> K`zan: emc directly outputs step and dir on the parallel port.
[22:07:50] <les> I have to try and set up an analog out from the dac for spindle speed (to the vfd)
[22:07:57] <les> wonder if that works
[22:08:02] <cradek> les: let us know if it does
[22:08:06] <les> heh
[22:08:20] <K`zan> cradek: I had planned to build one up using an AVR and talking to it serial, but unless I want to write *everything* this is out, gotta be parallel.
[22:09:03] <cradek> K`zan: if you are thinking of serial you may be underestimating the communication speed and latency issues
[22:09:42] <cradek> K`zan: simple chips like the L297 are cheap and available. Trying to reinvent them would be silly.
[22:09:53] <Jacky^> speaking abut parallel .. im tryng to get a 4A/ph stepper running with 2 A driver (l297-8)
[22:10:07] <cradek> K`zan: as a bonus, emc works perfectly with them
[22:10:12] <Jacky^> 8 wire step motor
[22:10:34] <Jacky^> tried parallel, series .. wont run
[22:10:51] <Jacky^> it run only if 2 ciol are used
[22:10:56] <Jacky^> coil*
[22:11:17] <Jacky^> what if i use 2 driver, 2 A each ?
[22:11:53] <Jacky^> i aready have a driver unused here..
[22:11:59] <jepler> Jacky^: L298 docs mention how to parallel the outputs for more current
[22:12:24] <Jacky^> jepler: im using an electronic kit
[22:12:42] <Jacky^> doubleside pcb .. it is done for 2 A ..
[22:12:46] <jepler> maybe this advice won't work for you then
[22:12:54] <Jacky^> ive one more driver unused
[22:13:08] <jepler> "Figure 7: For higher currents, outputs can be paralleled. Take care to parallel channel 1 with channel 4 and channel 2 with channel 3"
[22:13:10] <Jacky^> i wonder what happen if i use 2 driver for a single axis
[22:13:25] <Jacky^> jepler: yeah.. i read the datasheet
[22:13:32] <jepler> if you try to parallel drivers from different chips, I think you'll run into trouble since their on- and off-times won't be in synch
[22:13:39] <K`zan> cradek: In my ignorance, I am sure I am overestimating serial capability :).
[22:13:46] <Jacky^> the drivers are identical
[22:14:05] <K`zan> My machining experience goes to manually running a bridgeport clone and CNC on a Moog.
[22:14:05] <Jacky^> and i know the configutazione wire of my motors
[22:14:10] <K`zan> Long time ago...
[22:14:17] <Jacky^> it has 8 wired 4 coil
[22:14:21] <jepler> Jacky^: well, i'm considering L297/8 setups, where the L297 turns the drivers off and on..
[22:14:28] <K`zan> cradek: Interesting site!
[22:14:41] <cradek> K`zan: thank you
[22:14:49] <Jacky^> jepler: yeah ..
[22:14:59] <Jacky^> i think should work ..
[22:15:04] <les> jacky help me with some italian?
[22:15:05] <K`zan> Ok, dumbass question to help curb current high levels of ignorance:
[22:15:13] <Jacky^> of course the input be parallel
[22:15:19] <Jacky^> les: sure
[22:15:26] <cradek> K`zan: we won't laugh
[22:15:44] <K`zan> Better off buying or building? First project will be a router for PCBs, later I want to get a mini-mill like the Teig(sp?).
[22:16:04] <K`zan> Tired of slopping chemicals :-) :-)
[22:16:18] <les> "squilibri residui .0150g "
[22:16:29] <cradek> K`zan: routing PCBs requires a lot of precision - 10 mil traces and separations are commonplace
[22:16:44] <cradek> K`zan: that means if you have .005" of backlash, most of your trace is gone.
[22:17:03] <Jacky^> les: umhh .. they looks like techinal terms .. let me check
[22:17:13] <Jacky^> technical
[22:17:13] <K`zan> THis looks close to ideal: http://www.hobbycnc.com/plans/plans.htm
[22:17:14] <les> k
[22:17:41] <les> I think it's balance
[22:17:49] <cradek> K`zan: no, I don't think it does
[22:17:53] <K`zan> cradek: I know, but I am hoping to be able to get past those issues short of spending the combined wealth of the western world :)
[22:18:21] <cradek> K`zan: I have trouble believing that a plywood mill is adequate for PCB work
[22:18:24] <K`zan> cradek: physical layout on the t hing anyway, sizes are more than good enoug.
[22:18:44] <K`zan> cradek: I live in the US and know marketing would never lie to me ;-).
[22:18:52] <cradek> K`zan: haha
[22:18:58] <K`zan> ;-)
[22:19:08] <Jacky^> les: equilibrio is balance ..
[22:19:13] <K`zan> Which is why I am here :).
[22:19:17] <cradek> K`zan: I would sure like to see a closeup of that board they show
[22:19:21] <Jacky^> in that case out ..
[22:19:33] <K`zan> If I could afford a bridgeport clone with CNC, things would be a lot simpler :)
[22:19:41] <cradek> K`zan: my boards look perfect and beautiful under my 20x microscope
[22:19:51] <K`zan> cradek: Huh?
[22:20:11] <K`zan> cradek: I'm confused, are you using that router from the link I posted?
[22:20:15] <cradek> K`zan: the picture of the milled PCB on that page
[22:20:16] <les> says .015g 67 degrees, .012 132 degrees, .016 196 degrees
[22:20:23] <cradek> K`zan: no, sorry, my machine is completely different
[22:20:31] <cradek> K`zan: see my web site
[22:20:41] <K`zan> Checking again
[22:20:51] <jepler> K`zan: cradek's machine is a maxnc10 with everything replaced
[22:21:17] <cradek> more has been replaced since those photos!
[22:21:35] <K`zan> cradek: Are you talking about the MaxNC 10 ?
[22:21:35] <les> jacky, what about "collegamento"?
[22:21:41] <Jacky^> link
[22:21:44] <K`zan> * K`zan is REALLY confused :-/.
[22:21:45] <cradek> K`zan: yes
[22:21:49] <cradek> K`zan: I cut PCBs on that machine
[22:22:12] <jepler> cradek: do you have any photos of your boards on there? Here's a photo of one of the boards I made on it: http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/etchcnc/etch-board-full.jpg
[22:22:25] <K`zan> cradek: Yes, that would simplify things a lot. Perhaps I should just shelve this until I can either save enough or find a mill I can afford.
[22:22:29] <cradek> jepler: no, I need to get some photos of boards up.
[22:22:50] <cradek> jepler: that's a nice photo
[22:22:54] <K`zan> cradek: You actually have a M100 series Palm that still works ? Wow.
[22:23:05] <cradek> jepler: those are very fat traces
[22:23:11] <cradek> jepler: (compared to what we usually do)
[22:23:17] <Jacky^> les, so squilibrio would be aout of balance
[22:23:20] <Jacky^> out*
[22:23:23] <cradek> K`zan: yeah, it still works; I don't use it much
[22:23:41] <jepler> cradek: yeah. well, the board design was so simple (nothing going between pads or anything)
[22:24:00] <K`zan> Backup battery in mine died and I finally heaved it in the trash just before Plam admitted to it and started doing something about it :-(.
[22:24:17] <cradek> jepler: I should take photos of one of the SMD boards
[22:24:21] <les> thanks jacky
[22:24:25] <jepler> I don't think I have photos of any of the more complex boards
[22:24:30] <Jacky^> les: np :)
[22:24:46] <les> .015 gram out of balance on a 15 kg motor sems pretty good
[22:24:53] <les> seems
[22:24:55] <Jacky^> :)
[22:25:21] <Jacky^> yeah
[22:25:43] <les> came about an hour ago...looks nice
[22:26:12] <jepler> here's a screenshot of eagle showing a smd board cradek's mill made with no problem: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/projects/01112140655/soic-adapter.png
[22:26:21] <Jacky^> les: good
[22:26:22] <jepler> I bet the traces were 12-14mil
[22:26:31] <les> I am really looking forward to the low noise level of 74 dba at one meter at 24,000 rpm
[22:27:02] <Jacky^> nice
[22:27:18] <Jacky^> sounds ok :)
[22:27:22] <K`zan> Sigh, I think it is time to forget this and just start stashing coins until I can come up with a mill and then get back to it then. Thanks for the help all.
[22:27:35] <jepler> one last photo: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/01109127822/img_9012-small.jpg
[22:27:43] <cradek> K`zan: sorry to disappoint
[22:28:03] <K`zan> cradek: NP, life is not infrequently like that.
[22:28:15] <les> I have milled some 10mil line/ space surface mount boards...but chemicals are quicker.
[22:28:21] <cradek> jepler: ugh, wish you had a before-soldering photo on that one
[22:28:53] <jepler> cradek: yeah, I do too
[22:29:09] <cradek> les: maybe, if you don't have to drill, but I hate dealing with chemicals
[22:29:35] <cradek> and I can walk away and leave the mill to work for an hour, but the etchant won't slosh and rinse itself
[22:29:39] <jepler> cradek: I still have that last board (inverter) that I've never assembled, maybe it's photogenic or would be with a little sanding
[22:30:23] <Jacky^> a laser printer would be nice ..
[22:30:38] <Jacky^> if was possible to directly print on
[22:30:41] <Jacky^> :\
[22:30:46] <cradek> les: also, I ruin one shirt for every board I etch with that brown stuff
[22:30:48] <Jacky^> seem inpossible to do ..
[22:31:10] <cradek> Jacky^: I agree a laser printer that prints directly on boards would be VERY nice
[22:31:38] <icee> the whole concept of a laser printer doesn't work on a conductive substrate.
[22:31:43] <Jacky^> i dont tihink it can .. on metal
[22:31:53] <jepler> just refill an ink-jet with the acid, print it on your pcb, then rince in the toilet after 3 minutes.
[22:31:58] <Jacky^> icee: yeah ..
[22:32:03] <cradek> jepler: ha!
[22:32:06] <icee> e.g. you can't create a local static charge on something that conducts
[22:32:11] <jepler> er, rinse
[22:32:52] <Jacky^> jepler: mmhhh.. and it work ??
[22:33:14] <cradek> I feel bad for K`zan but I would feel worse watching him try to make PCBs on a plywood-and-dremel-tool milling machine
[22:33:19] <jepler> Jacky^: no, I just made that up
[22:33:22] <jepler> Jacky^: but someone would buy it
[22:33:27] <Jacky^> hehe
[22:40:42] <les> well, I am going to try to cook outside, even though it is raining a little.
[22:40:56] <les> Must have steak cooked on cherry wood!