#emc | Logs for 2005-09-06

[00:22:28] <cradek> drat, missed CR750 again
[00:23:29] <cradek> drat, missed CR750 again
[00:23:34] <cradek> oops
[00:24:36] <robin_sz> yeah?
[00:24:45] <robin_sz> try aiming a little to the left
[00:31:32] <AchiestDragon> robin_sz: order those steppers today , should have no problem with the driver board i have , may need to put heatsinks on the fets , and can get all parts for psu from maplin localy
[00:31:45] <AchiestDragon> order = orderd
[00:35:04] <AchiestDragon> tryed the machine today for stabilaty , with the router fitted and on with a 16mm bit ploughing it manualy through a bit of scrap chipboard , the machine seems rigid enough and no noticable flex
[00:36:00] <AchiestDragon> brb
[00:46:26] <robin_sz> AchiestDragon: what makes you thinkg the driver board will be OK?
[00:46:42] <robin_sz> those drives are 7.5V drop right?
[00:46:57] <robin_sz> at 2.1A?
[00:47:29] <AchiestDragon> the specs on the fets should drive up to 85A(max(although would say 10A practical))
[00:47:42] <robin_sz> foregt the current ... thats well within the capablity
[00:47:44] <robin_sz> now ...
[00:47:50] <robin_sz> the voltage drop on the motor
[00:48:03] <robin_sz> it is?
[00:48:16] <AchiestDragon> 7.5 V
[00:48:24] <robin_sz> so .. your PSU will be?
[00:48:45] <robin_sz> how many volts?
[00:48:49] <AchiestDragon> 50V ( bout 70Vdc
[00:48:54] <robin_sz> right ...
[00:49:05] <robin_sz> thisis with your current drive? or a new one?
[00:49:13] <AchiestDragon> current
[00:49:39] <AchiestDragon> the fets will handle that easy also
[00:49:57] <robin_sz> ok, you dont understand yet ...
[00:50:12] <robin_sz> if you connect 70V through that drive to the motor
[00:50:17] <robin_sz> it will draw ...
[00:50:26] <robin_sz> 21A
[00:50:31] <robin_sz> and go pop
[00:50:48] <robin_sz> how do you intend to limit the current to 2.1A?
[00:50:57] <AchiestDragon> risistor
[00:51:31] <robin_sz> 2.1A, 65V ...
[00:51:49] <robin_sz> 130W restistor
[00:52:36] <robin_sz> and .. actually, you still don't end up with any more power from the motor ...
[00:53:00] <AchiestDragon> may as well use lower voltage
[00:53:06] <robin_sz> wait .. someone analysed this on the forum last week ...
[00:55:24] <robin_sz> wait .. still searching ...
[00:55:30] <AchiestDragon> k
[00:57:10] <AchiestDragon> my self i would of used a 9V transformer giving me about 12V at 8A , used small value risistors or maybe just run them direct from that ( motors may get a bit hotter but :) )
[00:57:21] <robin_sz> are you on the Mach2 CNC group on yahoo?
[00:57:26] <AchiestDragon> no
[00:59:29] <robin_sz> hmm ... seems to have been deleted ...
[01:00:18] <AchiestDragon> at 9V thay woud draw 3A ,, ok but out of spec but should cope with that , at 12 it would be 4A so would need a risitor 1.8ohm less the on risitance of the fet
[01:01:00] <robin_sz> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/37050
[01:01:35] <robin_sz> and ...
[01:01:36] <robin_sz> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/37061
[01:01:42] <robin_sz> last one is more informative
[01:02:42] <robin_sz> ahh ...
[01:02:45] <robin_sz> and finally ..
[01:02:52] <robin_sz> tom caudles analysis
[01:02:54] <robin_sz> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/37084
[01:03:28] <robin_sz> you should be able to find the full thread of the discussion on there
[01:03:43] <robin_sz> but yeah, certainly resistors will help, but not much
[01:04:51] <AchiestDragon> well running them at 10*rated V like has been sugested and having to use dropper risistors seems odd
[01:05:09] <robin_sz> its called an l?R drive
[01:05:12] <robin_sz> L/R
[01:05:32] <robin_sz> they went out of fashion in about .... 1965
[01:05:42] <robin_sz> no .. I am honestly not joking
[01:05:58] <robin_sz> my in70s brifgeport had a more advanced drive than that
[01:06:02] <robin_sz> 1970s
[01:06:18] <robin_sz> get the motors
[01:06:30] <robin_sz> get a fe dropper resistors and use it for setting up
[01:06:41] <robin_sz> then, when funds allow swap out the drive for real ones
[01:06:57] <AchiestDragon> would rather run them with a small R 0.1 ohm for current limiting only , but more efficiant to run them direct at rated voltage (just takeing into account the on risistance of the fet)
[01:07:09] <robin_sz> yes
[01:07:10] <robin_sz> BUT
[01:07:15] <robin_sz> they will be very VERY slow
[01:07:37] <robin_sz> like 660 rpm max useable torque
[01:07:40] <robin_sz> 60
[01:07:48] <robin_sz> damn my typing fingers
[01:08:46] <AchiestDragon> need to add some spike suppression to stop voltage spikes ,feeding back to the fets
[01:08:46] <robin_sz> the motors you spoke of sound fine .. a good buy
[01:08:57] <robin_sz> mmm ... not really
[01:09:08] <robin_sz> the fets have a body diode
[01:10:25] <robin_sz> have you had yours running yet?
[01:10:37] <AchiestDragon> but on the fets used that only allows for 100V spikes ,, using a diode accross the coil helps , on unipolar designs i should add
[01:10:53] <AchiestDragon> with the steppers suplied yes
[01:11:04] <robin_sz> can you stop them with your fingers?
[01:11:11] <AchiestDragon> yes
[01:11:18] <robin_sz> easily?
[01:11:36] <AchiestDragon> depends on the speed i'm running them
[01:11:53] <robin_sz> say, 1 rev/second ...
[01:12:03] <AchiestDragon> would say 60lb feels right at slow speeds
[01:12:44] <robin_sz> well, as I said .. the motors you suggested sound fine ...
[01:13:10] <AchiestDragon> but faster and thay get easyer to stop , untill you hit the max rate and thay stop stepping correctly
[01:13:12] <robin_sz> but I think you should make time to pop over and try them on some real drives .. so you can see the difference ...
[01:13:57] <robin_sz> yeah, do that ...
[01:14:22] <robin_sz> when you have your new motors ... why not pop over and we'll hook en up to some geckos so you can see the difference?
[01:14:50] <AchiestDragon> the 60oz ones drive the x and y ok but drop stepps on the z , and only will take a little presure to stop the x and y axis's
[01:14:58] <robin_sz> * robin_sz ndos
[01:16:01] <robin_sz> my router had 5.7Nm motors and did 600 inches/minute
[01:16:02] <AchiestDragon> been thinking of useing them for driving the tracks on the robot , but thay may be a bit slow for that alsp
[01:16:10] <AchiestDragon> -p+o
[01:16:29] <robin_sz> I forget the actual thrust at 120ipm, but it was a couple of hundred kilos
[01:17:18] <robin_sz> ah well
[01:18:54] <AchiestDragon> well will play arround with them when thay get here
[01:19:01] <robin_sz> your re-work of the chasis looked good though .
[01:19:14] <robin_sz> droppign Z made it look much neater and more stable
[01:20:08] <robin_sz> you Z axis look like it might need a re-think inplaces though
[01:20:21] <robin_sz> take some of the flex and slop out of it
[01:20:25] <AchiestDragon> did some more on the x axis today , got rid of the z plane rotation ,
[01:20:34] <robin_sz> right
[01:20:49] <robin_sz> considered drawer runners for the z axisslides?
[01:21:40] <AchiestDragon> the z is solid , although looking at it it could do with a braceing piece on the front to stop the posibilaty of twist
[01:21:49] <robin_sz> the 'Accuride' ones with ball bearings ??
[01:22:25] <AchiestDragon> the main problem i can see is in the x and y
[01:22:54] <robin_sz> I did some analysis on cheap routers a while back ...
[01:23:01] <robin_sz> my conclusion was ...
[01:23:07] <robin_sz> a fixed gantry
[01:23:08] <AchiestDragon> the 20mm bar realy wants to sit in the u section for center support , but the gap is 22mm so it drops through
[01:23:24] <robin_sz> with a table that slides underneath for X
[01:23:26] <AchiestDragon> so 25mm bar or pipe would be better
[01:23:48] <robin_sz> and Y moves along the gantry
[01:23:51] <robin_sz> hmm ...
[01:24:03] <robin_sz> considered drilling and tapping the bar?
[01:24:41] <AchiestDragon> well i dont get any notable defeltion on it , but it could be a problem
[01:24:59] <AchiestDragon> *deflection
[01:26:25] <robin_sz> drawer runners can make a cheap alternaitve to slides if you are stuck ...
[01:26:31] <AchiestDragon> so for the time going to try it as it is , and fix it if its a problem
[01:26:38] <robin_sz> right
[01:27:34] <AchiestDragon> i thought about a moving X bed , but decided to move the gantry because of the extra workbench space it would need
[01:27:52] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Accuride-drawer-slides-runners-heavy-duty-long_W0QQitemZ5611691052QQcategoryZ26261QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:28:00] <robin_sz> yeah, moving bed takes more space
[01:28:10] <robin_sz> but you get more rigidity for less cash
[01:29:12] <AchiestDragon> and can be heavier to move than the gantry ,thus more power needed to drive it
[01:29:22] <robin_sz> well, no
[01:29:42] <robin_sz> it should work out lighter than the gantry
[01:29:45] <robin_sz> plus ...
[01:29:59] <robin_sz> you drive the table with 1 screw from the middle
[01:30:15] <robin_sz> with a moving gantry you have to figure out how to drive both sides
[01:30:21] <robin_sz> usually two screws
[01:30:29] <robin_sz> linked with a belt
[01:31:20] <AchiestDragon> got a crossmember running under the table from each side of the gantry , going to use a screw thread in the center from that
[01:31:28] <robin_sz> hmmm
[01:31:37] <robin_sz> before you do that ....
[01:31:55] <robin_sz> try just fixing it in the centre with a bit of threaded bar ...
[01:32:06] <robin_sz> and then seeing how much twist there is
[01:32:18] <robin_sz> pushing on the left side of the gantry, pulling on the right ...
[01:33:15] <robin_sz> because your bearing points are just what, 6" apart front to back on the gantry ..t here will be a lot of movement
[01:33:35] <robin_sz> the moving tabel avoids that because the bearing points are a whole table length apart
[01:33:52] <robin_sz> so itr cant twist
[01:33:58] <AchiestDragon> k
[01:34:11] <robin_sz> fun isnt it :)
[01:34:15] <AchiestDragon> :)
[01:34:17] <AchiestDragon> yes
[01:34:39] <robin_sz> there are so many compromises and trade ofss
[01:35:42] <AchiestDragon> main use is going to be drilling , so not as much a problem as milling on it
[01:35:48] <robin_sz> right
[01:35:51] <robin_sz> PCBs?
[01:36:13] <AchiestDragon> no aluminum angle
[01:36:34] <robin_sz> interes5ting
[01:36:43] <AchiestDragon> 1.5mm thick and about 5mm holes
[01:37:00] <robin_sz> 1.5mm thick angle?
[01:37:03] <robin_sz> coo
[01:37:13] <robin_sz> can I laser it for you ;)
[01:37:19] <AchiestDragon> lol
[01:37:46] <robin_sz> I do some ally for on guy ...
[01:38:07] <robin_sz> cut it in the flat, drop holes and slots in it and then bend it into an angle
[01:38:16] <Jymmm> Damn... I wish Jon's USC board wasn't propritary and/or need a driver to operate.
[01:38:23] <robin_sz> dunno what he uses it for
[01:38:53] <robin_sz> Jymmm: what is your objection to needing a driver? .. all hardware needs drivers
[01:39:33] <Jymmm> only driver available is for emc. I will not use/buy propritary HW, ever again.
[01:39:37] <AchiestDragon> although using the unistrut has made it easy to modify , so i can rebuild it later if i need to do major changes
[01:39:48] <robin_sz> Jymmm: I dont beleive you
[01:40:22] <robin_sz> Jymmm: is your PC built with a non-propeitary mobo?
[01:40:30] <robin_sz> your food mixer open source?
[01:40:45] <robin_sz> see ... proprietary hardware is everywhere
[01:41:11] <robin_sz> but his driver is open source isnt it?
[01:41:27] <robin_sz> so you could write another from the spec
[01:41:47] <AchiestDragon> but emc could have the option to drive a number of diferent drivers , so that the user has a choice
[01:41:58] <robin_sz> yes
[01:42:00] <AchiestDragon> or build there own
[01:42:04] <robin_sz> indeed so
[01:42:54] <robin_sz> Im not quite sure what Jymms objection to the USC board is .. as the driver is open source as far as I now, and theres enough info there to write a new driver for whatever you wanted ...
[01:43:14] <robin_sz> but still .. hes Jymmm, and we like to tease him from time to time ...
[01:43:50] <Jymmm> robin_sz So, you offering to write the new driver for free huh?
[01:44:14] <robin_sz> no ... why would I want to?
[01:45:01] <robin_sz> wahst wrong with the current one?
[01:45:06] <robin_sz> it works with EMC ...
[01:47:27] <robin_sz> anyway . enough
[01:47:30] <robin_sz> bedtime
[03:14:44] <Jymmm> anyone left around?
[03:24:27] <AchiestDragon> :) just
[03:28:25] <Jymmm> heh
[03:29:19] <AchiestDragon> just been working out the psu for the steppers :)
[03:29:28] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[03:33:13] <Jymmm> I just got 120IPM using DOS, but can't get it using nix of win
[03:33:22] <Jymmm> or
[03:33:41] <AchiestDragon> k
[03:34:00] <AchiestDragon> kool , but a pain if no nix or win
[03:34:02] <Jymmm> I was only able to get 90IPM from BDI 4.25
[03:34:13] <Jymmm> why a pain?
[03:34:24] <AchiestDragon> how many steps /in
[03:34:31] <Jymmm> 16000
[03:34:48] <AchiestDragon> pain because the user interface is better
[03:35:00] <Jymmm> becasue of the mouse?
[03:36:32] <AchiestDragon> thats about a 32khz step pulse frequancy
[03:36:44] <Jymmm> 27KHz actually
[03:37:53] <Jymmm> tis sad that DOS outperforms nix/win
[03:38:31] <AchiestDragon> hmm , but are you running nix in console mode or gui
[03:38:49] <Jymmm> console w/ keystick
[03:39:44] <AchiestDragon> dos is a light o/s , and almost no background tasks so can be quicker at some things
[03:40:20] <AchiestDragon> and not multitasking like nix
[03:41:00] <Jymmm> but EMC is running on a RT kernel when it starts.
[03:41:43] <Jymmm> See, the thing is that multiple ppl so far have told me I've hit the hardware limitation of a PC, and that a ext HW step generator is now required.
[03:41:43] <AchiestDragon> but still its a RT multitask o/s
[03:42:19] <AchiestDragon> well a h/w step gen would be a better option
[03:42:33] <Jymmm> no longe necessary
[03:43:12] <AchiestDragon> should be able to clock up to whatever the steppers will run at with h/w
[03:45:05] <AchiestDragon> getting s/w to work with it would be another matter though
[03:45:07] <Jymmm> fuck me.... just got 144IPM out of it
[03:46:25] <AchiestDragon> running dos or a dos in a window
[03:46:39] <Jymmm> pure dos
[03:47:07] <Jymmm> damn..... just got 180IPM, but I think thats the limit
[03:47:26] <Jymmm> Thats DOUBLE what I could get under nix/win.
[03:48:29] <Jymmm> I'll say this much... 120IPM is a lil scarry.
[03:48:38] <Jymmm> max travel is 24"
[03:50:55] <AchiestDragon> kool
[03:51:22] <AchiestDragon> anyway its 3:30am , and time for bed here
[03:54:10] <Jymmm> G'Night AchiestDragon
[04:11:00] <A-L-P-H-A> .
[04:11:01] <A-L-P-H-A> .
[04:11:07] <Jymmm> -
[04:11:07] <Jymmm> .
[04:11:18] <Jymmm> -
[04:11:19] <Jymmm> -
[04:11:20] <Jymmm> -
[04:11:23] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[04:11:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I was experiencing some lag
[04:12:35] <Jymmm> Ah, I thought morse code.... you said 'I', and I said 'NO'
[04:13:23] <Jymmm> I was able to get 180IPM
[04:13:28] <Jymmm> from DOS
[04:13:35] <A-L-P-H-A> are you sure without loss steps?
[04:13:35] <Jymmm> but only 90IPM from nix/win
[04:13:56] <Jymmm> I have a ruler tape up there.
[04:14:46] <Jymmm> but even with (any) lost steps... I wasn't able to get above 90IPM even with BDI 4.25
[04:15:30] <Jymmm> even kinda scarry at 120IPM with only 24" travel
[04:16:10] <Jymmm> I think it's time to dust off my MS-DOS remote console application
[04:16:20] <Jymmm> kinda like VNS for dos
[04:16:23] <Jymmm> vnc
[04:17:06] <Jymmm> how you doin A-L-P-H-A ?
[04:17:48] <A-L-P-H-A> bored
[04:18:03] <Jymmm> aren't you doing any mill work?
[04:21:24] <A-L-P-H-A> I really should be.
[04:21:32] <A-L-P-H-A> but I haven't been.
[04:21:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll do something after this tv show. I think.
[04:21:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I hope.
[04:21:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll need to turn two pullies.
[04:21:48] <A-L-P-H-A> bbiab
[04:46:47] <Jymmm> hi chris
[05:46:59] <Jymmm> * Jymmm waves to cradek!!!
[05:53:23] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A would like to say "QUICK!!! Everyone ignore Jymmm"... but that memo appearantly was already circulated.
[05:53:35] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm. I'm bored...
[05:53:39] <A-L-P-H-A> how's that machine running?
[06:06:08] <Jymmm> it's actually running pretty good.
[06:06:56] <Jymmm> I setup a dial indicator, jogged it back at high speed about 8", then told it to goto the zero position on the DTI. DEAD ON the money honey!
[06:07:30] <Jymmm> and... as far as the ignore goes... I can do better then that =)
[06:08:58] <Jymmm> I have about a 0.004" backlash in the ballscrews, but Sw compensation seems to resolve that.
[06:11:17] <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
[06:11:27] <A-L-P-H-A> so total cost to get up and running?
[06:11:29] <A-L-P-H-A> minus computer
[06:12:17] <Jymmm> Well, using DOS and TurboCNC, it'll run off the $85 laptop I bought. SO I think I'm to around $3800
[06:12:50] <A-L-P-H-A> cool
[06:13:44] <Jymmm> With still more to go!
[06:14:07] <Jymmm> excluding tooling
[06:14:40] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah. understood about the tooling
[06:15:13] <Jymmm> I *think* I'm gonna order some of these http://www.nesales.com/tools/t-track.htm
[06:15:25] <Jymmm> the T-Track that is
[06:15:45] <A-L-P-H-A> hahaha... why not just make them? heh.
[06:15:54] <Jymmm> th aluminum tracks?
[06:16:05] <A-L-P-H-A> you can buy that from your local metall supplier.
[06:16:17] <A-L-P-H-A> cheaper than that 4'track.
[06:16:31] <Jymmm> haven't been able to find it locally
[06:16:45] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[06:16:50] <A-L-P-H-A> well... then you have a problem.
[06:16:57] <A-L-P-H-A> you should have someone selling that shit locally.
[06:17:33] <Jymmm> In the Bay Area, most mechanical type stuff is not available 'off the shelfs', most of it is in LA.
[06:18:18] <Jymmm> Neing it's so close, they dont stock it.
[06:18:22] <Jymmm> Being
[06:18:50] <A-L-P-H-A> SFBA...
[06:18:56] <Jymmm> Yeah
[06:19:22] <Jymmm> If you want something techincal, then yeah it's available off the shelves.
[06:20:06] <Jymmm> but 48" is only $14
[06:22:55] <Jymmm> what machine do you have/run?
[06:23:13] <A-L-P-H-A> 28" x 8" chinese mill, converted over to ballscrews and running TOO slow.
[06:23:27] <Jymmm> lol, ok.
[06:23:40] <Jymmm> what's 'too slow' ?
[06:23:42] <A-L-P-H-A> 1hp
[06:23:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't remember... I'm getting shit speeds... waiting for gecko101 to be released.
[06:24:08] <A-L-P-H-A> damn. I got a head ache.
[06:24:50] <Jymmm> can I ask why you want a g-rex?
[06:25:11] <A-L-P-H-A> so I can have good clean pulse generation.
[06:25:36] <Jymmm> and what makes you think/feel that the grex will provide that?
[06:26:55] <A-L-P-H-A> that's it's job.
[06:27:54] <Jymmm> Well... it requires a driver iirc, and unless John comes up with a module, it's not gonna happen if I understand everythign correctly.
[06:29:13] <Jymmm> It seems that the USC would be better suited as it also provides breakout and opto22 relay jacks.
[06:30:07] <Jymmm> I'm on the gecko list as well, and I'm not seeing it just yet.
[06:31:49] <Jymmm> but, that's just a feeling.
[07:07:51] <LawrenceG> hi Jymmm
[07:08:04] <LawrenceG> you still awake?
[07:09:00] <Jymmm> yep =)
[07:09:19] <LawrenceG> hey... just caught up on reading your speed experiences
[07:09:38] <Jymmm> sad, isn't it?
[07:09:54] <LawrenceG> is there any way you can change the order or the drive pulleys? ie swap the driver and the driven?
[07:10:05] <LawrenceG> are the the same shaft size?
[07:10:16] <LawrenceG> s/the/they
[07:10:28] <Jymmm> no they're not. But did you read the part where under DOS I got 180IPM
[07:11:04] <LawrenceG> could be... computer can do it... just dont type on the keyboard or do any disk activity
[07:11:53] <Jymmm> ?
[07:12:20] <LawrenceG> when a dos box steps... thats all it does.... even a screen update will kill the step rate
[07:12:42] <Jymmm> I've been mucking with it... pretty solid.
[07:12:55] <Jymmm> neither nix/win could get above 90IPM
[07:14:01] <LawrenceG> if you have lots of stepper torque and your cutting loads are not too high, you could try direct drive (1-1 pulleys) but that would mean buying 2 pulleys and a new belt length to test it
[07:15:00] <Jymmm> Nah, I dont' feel like doing that.
[07:15:10] <LawrenceG> you are still running 1/8 step drivers (correct?) if you can cut that back to 1/4 step mode, you will close to double your current speed with windows/linux
[07:15:39] <Jymmm> and loose precision. Plus I can only do Full, Half, or 1/8
[07:16:29] <LawrenceG> did you try half? that will still give you 2000 steps/inch and 4x the speed
[07:17:01] <Jymmm> no, I didn't.
[07:17:38] <Jymmm> but going to half will introduce roughness, wouldn't it?
[07:18:23] <LawrenceG> depends on what speeds you want to work at... I run my steppers at 1/2 step and they are fine
[07:18:40] <Jymmm> on what type of machine and size?
[07:19:51] <LawrenceG> its a shoptask... desktop lath/mill weights about 400 pounds total and I have rapids around 50ipm with really brain dead drivers
[07:20:21] <LawrenceG> most cutting I do is around 10-20ipm
[07:20:43] <LawrenceG> wood/plastic aluminum
[07:21:15] <LawrenceG> I have done some steel as well... cast iron is interesting to machine
[07:21:59] <Jymmm> this is a gantry router, so we'll see how this goes. If DOS is what I need, so be it. I like DOS anyway =)
[07:22:13] <LawrenceG> on your drives... can you change to 1/2 step easily (like a jumper)
[07:22:30] <Jymmm> Yeah, just add a jumper
[07:24:38] <LawrenceG> try a jumper, change your emc scales from 16000 to 4000 and double your max velocity.... you can try it on one axis to see how smooth it works
[07:25:23] <Jymmm> what will that do for the precision?
[07:25:23] <LawrenceG> maybe 4x on velocity
[07:26:06] <LawrenceG> resolution will be 1/4, accuracy will probably not change due to othe mechanical factors
[07:28:41] <Jymmm> Hmmmm, I'm reluctant. but maybe. WE'll see how the DOs holds out.
[07:30:40] <LawrenceG> you just said you have 4 thou backlash.... at 4000 steps/inch that is 16 steps out of position!
[07:31:31] <LawrenceG> you have much more resolution than required and its killing your top speed due to step rate limitations in the pc
[07:31:42] <Jymmm> Well, I'm working on the backlash issue right now... going to try and preload the ballnut.
[07:32:12] <Jymmm> http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=product&id=590&n=9/64IN_CHROME_GR.25_BALLS_(100)
[07:32:26] <LawrenceG> .004 is not bad for a hobby machine... my shoptask has 0.020 on one axis with ball screws!
[07:32:54] <Jymmm> I dont consider $2500 for the machien alone 'hobby'.
[07:34:09] <LawrenceG> same price range as shoptask.... If I had more room, I'd love a bridgeport
[07:34:16] <Jymmm> and this isn't going to be for hobby use, actually for production when I get the kinks out.
[07:35:33] <LawrenceG> that link on bearings looks interesting.... will have to get the mic out and size the ones I am using... I wonder what the rule of thumb is for ordering sizes
[07:36:09] <Jymmm> LawrenceG When I spoke to the Mgr at Thomson, he says they actuall have someone preload by hand.
[07:36:41] <Jymmm> chrome alloy, grade 25
[07:36:45] <Jymmm> http://www.nationalball.com/2_52100.htm
[07:37:07] <Jymmm> they laod about 30 balls and test the backlash
[07:37:18] <LawrenceG> yeah.... I think they have a range of sizes and pick the ones that give a nice fit for the particular screw
[07:37:35] <Jymmm> I'm trying to find someplace that has better variety of sizes
[07:37:57] <Jymmm> my balss are 0.124" when measured.
[07:38:58] <LawrenceG> .010 dia balls @ 6,802,721 /lb.... I'd like to order 1/2 pound please
[07:39:11] <Jymmm> heh
[07:45:18] <LawrenceG> http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=product&id=415&n=1/8IN_CHROME_GR.25_BALLS_(100)
[07:45:56] <LawrenceG> they dont seem to have much size selection around that size
[07:46:40] <Jymmm> Yeah, I noticed that too
[07:47:11] <Jymmm> but I bet they know some place that does carry them.
[07:47:12] <LawrenceG> I wonder if there is a rule for ball screws.... 0.005 backlash needs balls that are 0.001 larger?
[07:47:23] <Jymmm> in 0.0005" increments
[07:48:35] <LawrenceG> les might know
[07:49:26] <LawrenceG> probably depends on where the slop is... screw or nut diameter
[07:50:49] <LawrenceG> well, this boy is going to bed... goodnight
[07:51:00] <Jymmm> g'night
[07:52:13] <Jymmm> mscdirect.com raw materials, pg 1776
[13:34:16] <xet7> How can I turn off white screen blanking when pc has been idle from BDI 4.23:s KDE?
[13:47:43] <AchiestDragon_> AchiestDragon_ is now known as AchiestDragon
[14:44:14] <Jymmm> Mornin folks
[15:16:11] <alex_joni> 'lo
[15:16:15] <alex_joni> anybody home?
[15:25:44] <cradek> no
[15:26:25] <_AchiestDragon> _AchiestDragon is now known as AchiestDragon
[15:30:56] <alex_joni> hey chris
[15:31:02] <alex_joni> what's up?
[15:33:14] <cradek> not much - just working...
[15:33:34] <alex_joni> same here
[15:33:39] <alex_joni> I just got back from holidays
[15:33:44] <alex_joni> a LOT of catching up ;)
[16:24:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni will be back later
[16:37:53] <anonimasu> hello
[17:11:25] <Jacky^> hola
[18:22:59] <xet7> How can I add "distance to go" to axis?
[19:30:09] <cradek> xet7: you mean for the current move?
[19:30:28] <cradek> xet7: you have commanded and absolute position in the stat module, so show the difference
[19:30:30] <xet7> yes
[19:30:39] <cradek> xet7: but that seems not very useful
[19:32:11] <xet7> so is the end position of x, y and z calculated on some variable on axis?
[19:33:25] <cradek> the commanded position is in the stat module
[19:33:52] <cradek> you can display either commanded or absolute in axis as-is
[19:33:53] <xet7> ok
[19:34:28] <cradek> I suppose you could add another option that shows the difference between the two
[19:34:54] <jepler> "position" is commanded position, "actual_position" is actual position? Around line 1317
[19:35:18] <cradek> * cradek admits he hasn't looked at the code
[19:35:36] <xet7> cool :)
[19:35:44] <jepler> they both seem to change continuously while going through a long g1 move
[19:35:59] <cradek> oh really? heck
[19:35:59] <jepler> I don't think "commanded position" means the desired position at the end of the move
[19:36:19] <xet7> what it means then?
[19:36:24] <cradek> forget everything I said then
[19:36:41] <cradek> xet7: it means the position the software requests of the machine
[19:36:59] <jepler> One is the value emc thinks the machine is at now, and the other is the value reported by reading encoders (in the case of servos, or some simulated value in the case of steppers)
[19:40:46] <jepler> I'm not sure how to get the value corresponding to the end of the current move
[19:41:03] <cradek> the planner knows the goal position
[19:41:08] <cradek> and the distance "to go"
[19:41:15] <cradek> all the calcs are wrt "to go"
[19:41:27] <cradek> but I don't know how you get that to the gui.
[19:41:55] <jepler> you can find out the motion_line and current_line from the stat object, and then figure out some way to dig out the corresponding end coordinates from the preview plot
[19:42:25] <cradek> ugh
[19:42:42] <xet7> paul_c said that distance to go is in tc.c, tcRunCycle()
[19:42:43] <jepler> what to show for "distance to go" for a canned cycle is tough, though, since it can include many moves
[19:45:01] <xet7> how usually axis gets values from emc?
[19:45:27] <cradek> the stat module connects to emc and talks nml
[19:46:44] <_AchiestDragon> _AchiestDragon is now known as AchiestDragon
[19:47:10] <jepler> xet7: The same way as all the other front-ends, but with a layer of Python in between. The C++ code that provides that layer is in extensions/emcmodule.cc
[19:48:09] <xet7> So I'll make distance to go values available the same way that showing current x,y,z coords work
[19:48:43] <xet7> is emc1 developed anymore?
[19:48:46] <paul_c> The easiest way would be to copy tc->togo to the Status.Traj. struct and export it via NML
[19:48:51] <jepler> xet7: each member of the stat object is either listed in 'static PyMemberDef Stat_members' (for enum, int, and long types) or Stat_getsetlist (for arrays and structs). You'd be adding a new structure, so you'd add an entry to Stat_getsetlist[].
[19:50:23] <xet7> is the axis source same or different for emc1?
[19:50:23] <jepler> xet7: the lines of the overlay are painted around line 1350 in 'def redraw(self)'. You could simply append a new line to the 'positions' list and it would be displayed below the X, Y, Z positions
[19:50:32] <jepler> if you want to show the linear distance to go
[20:23:18] <Jymmm> boo!
[20:27:34] <Jymmm> theres no 'heartbeat' from emc is there?
[20:29:47] <paul_c> Yes there is.
[20:30:09] <Jymmm> yeah? where, what, why, how?
[20:31:23] <paul_c> You still using keystick ?
[20:31:36] <Jymmm> sure
[20:31:38] <Jymmm> why not
[20:31:47] <paul_c> Press the '?@
[20:31:59] <paul_c> Press the '?' a couple of times
[20:32:02] <Jymmm> oh, sorry... I mean comign out of the parallel port.
[20:34:16] <paul_c> Not unless you code it up.
[20:34:31] <Jymmm> ok.
[20:34:47] <Jymmm> paul_c: Hey I got 180IPM..... from MS-DOS
[20:35:55] <paul_c> MS-DOS - A single user single task basic disk operating system that is now an obsolete product.
[20:36:16] <Jymmm> that was able to provide speeds that win/nix couldn't.
[20:36:34] <paul_c> Throw in a maltitasking stack, and you would see that speed disappear.
[20:37:48] <Jymmm> That may be true, but I was only able to get 90 IPM under nix/win.
[20:38:30] <cradek> too bad your mill requires a higher step rate than your computer can easily provide
[20:38:34] <cradek> you should fix that
[20:38:48] <Jymmm> Well, the computer can do it.... under DOS
[20:39:03] <cradek> so? use DOS then
[20:39:15] <Jymmm> ok
[20:39:41] <Jymmm> Now I gotta find the DOS version of EMC
[20:39:54] <cradek> you won't find anyone here to write it for you
[20:40:05] <Jymmm> I dont' have, it's already been written
[20:42:04] <paul_c> There was a port of EMC to DOS
[20:43:21] <Jymmm> paul_c: was that a question or statment?
[20:43:30] <paul_c> a comment.
[20:43:38] <Jymmm> Ah.... http://deskam.com/deskncrt.html
[20:44:31] <paul_c> Don't expect any support or bug fixes for it though.
[20:44:35] <Jymmm> Now to see if he'll rebuild with the bug fixes, or actually can he do that (licensing wise) ?
[20:45:49] <Jacky^> ahhh
[20:45:52] <Jacky^> :)))
[20:45:58] <Jacky^> goood day
[20:46:06] <Jacky^> after a very bad day :\
[20:46:20] <Jacky^> a day without dsl
[20:46:28] <Jymmm> Jacky^ You are pregnant and Anna is *NOT* the father?
[20:46:30] <Jacky^> storm ! acc.
[20:46:38] <Jacky^> where is anna ??
[20:46:42] <Jacky^> here ?
[20:46:47] <Jacky^> channel
[20:46:49] <Jacky^> ops
[20:47:04] <Jacky^> no.. she's not
[20:47:06] <Jacky^> :)
[20:47:16] <Jymmm> Jacky^ You been sipping the vino?
[20:47:23] <Jacky^> sluuurp
[20:47:25] <Jacky^> hehe
[20:47:36] <Jacky^> Jymmm: bad week
[20:47:38] <Jymmm> my bad... I should have said guzzling the vino
[20:47:40] <Jacky^> very bad
[20:47:46] <Jymmm> sorry to hear that Jacky^
[20:48:01] <Jacky^> yesterday i was without connection ..
[20:48:13] <Jacky^> 7 L298 burned ..
[20:48:17] <Jacky^> umpfff
[20:48:32] <Jacky^> there ?
[20:48:37] <Jacky^> how is ?
[20:48:48] <Jacky^> the wheater ?
[20:49:25] <Jymmm> Has anyone every noticed that everyday we dont put that much impotance on net connection, but the day it's out OH GAWD!!! You never realize how much you are really dependant upon it even for your livelyhood.
[20:49:37] <Jymmm> importance
[20:49:52] <Jacky^> :)
[20:50:04] <Jacky^> the only thing positive i've ..
[20:50:17] <Jacky^> i knowed a girl in irc: keyss
[20:50:19] <Jacky^> :P
[20:50:20] <Jymmm> cradek Hey, you sounded a lil frustrated when I mentioned DOS.
[20:50:27] <Jacky^> i'm working aroubd ..
[20:50:30] <Jacky^> hehe
[20:53:29] <Jacky^> Jymmm: ...
[20:54:30] <Jacky^> how to say zaino in english ?
[20:54:45] <Jacky^> the thing babys use to go to school
[20:54:50] <Jacky^> with books ?
[20:56:26] <Jymmm> backpack?
[20:56:33] <Jacky^> maybe ..
[20:56:42] <Jacky^> italian is zaino ..
[20:56:49] <Jacky^> or zainetto
[20:56:52] <Jacky^> well ..
[20:57:24] <Jacky^> my syster bought a backpack by smackdown
[20:57:32] <Jacky^> 80 E .
[20:57:41] <Jacky^> crazy !!
[20:57:44] <Jymmm> smackdown == wrestling?
[20:57:47] <Jacky^> shes crazy.
[20:57:52] <Jacky^> yeah ..
[20:57:55] <Jacky^> :\
[20:57:57] <Jymmm> lol
[20:58:04] <Jacky^> 80 euro !!
[20:58:07] <Jacky^> damn
[20:58:08] <Jymmm> paul_c: you still awake over there?
[20:58:53] <Jymmm> paul_c: Fine, see how you are... no bug reports for you then!
[20:59:03] <paul_c> Zzzz
[20:59:24] <Jacky^> incredible ..
[20:59:44] <Jacky^> 1 minister berlusconi is crazy ..
[20:59:47] <Jacky^> :\
[21:00:00] <Jacky^> we hope goverment will change ..
[21:00:11] <Jymmm> paul_c: Installer chokes with only 96MB ram
[21:00:33] <Jymmm> paul_c: Unable to save debugging info to floppy
[21:00:40] <paul_c> which is why 128M min is recommended
[21:01:26] <Jymmm> thanks for adding the RESCUE mode
[21:01:31] <Jacky^> with 80 euro ..
[21:01:50] <Jacky^> i would buy a fantastic motor :\
[21:02:36] <Jacky^> shes crazy
[21:02:40] <paul_c> rescue mode has always been there - Not that it has been tested.
[21:04:15] <Jacky^> theres no religion to
[21:04:18] <Jacky^> :(
[21:05:11] <Jymmm> paul_c lol
[21:05:57] <Jacky^> :\
[21:06:00] <Jacky^> ghghg
[21:21:15] <Jymmm> lol... ok I looked at that DOS EMC.... the word 'scarry' comes to mind.
[21:21:46] <Jymmm> It's setup to take word commands to alter current function.
[21:21:54] <Jymmm> much like cmdline
[21:22:22] <Jacky^> Jymmm: tried fdisk /all ?
[21:22:28] <Jacky^> :D
[21:22:35] <Jacky^> kidding ..
[21:22:38] <Jacky^> :)
[21:22:42] <Jymmm> Jacky^ BITCH I like dos =)
[21:22:45] <Jacky^> hehe
[21:23:35] <Jacky^> Jymmm: i'm already waiting for response about linux embedded emc hacking ..
[21:23:40] <paul_c> del io.sys
[21:23:41] <Jacky^> hope well ..
[21:23:44] <Jacky^> :)
[21:23:44] <Jymmm> Actually... the 911 Dispatcher center here uses MS-DOS for the communications dispatch. They have even won awards due to their reliability.
[21:24:37] <Jacky^> Jymmm: really, ms dos i strong
[21:24:40] <Jacky^> is*
[21:25:11] <Jymmm> In todays world, most dont have any use for it, but it does have it's place.
[21:25:20] <Jacky^> good
[21:25:21] <Jymmm> shut up paul_c
[21:25:25] <Jacky^> :)
[21:25:38] <Jymmm> =)
[21:25:39] <cradek> it makes a great serial terminal out of a 486 laptop
[21:25:55] <Jymmm> cradek this is true
[21:26:07] <Jymmm> out of a XT one as well =)
[21:26:17] <cradek> not so much - they can't scroll very fast.
[21:26:18] <Jymmm> Toshbia T1000 with embedded DOS ROM
[21:26:36] <Jymmm> Hey it has a 14.4K modem in it
[21:26:43] <cradek> although the IBM monochrome card can
[21:26:51] <Jymmm> smooth scrolling is 9600
[21:27:14] <Jymmm> oh you mena the LCD itself?
[21:27:53] <cradek> no, I mean copying video memory to scroll the screen
[21:28:04] <Jymmm> heh... yeah
[21:28:05] <cradek> but never mind
[21:28:21] <Jymmm> FIDONET!
[21:29:44] <Jymmm> and yes it's still alive... http://www.fidonet.org/
[21:37:43] <mrallen> is it possible to build emc2 on a linux system that does not have rtai or rtlinux?
[21:38:00] <mrallen> the box that runs my sherline is a wee bit underpowered
[21:38:18] <mrallen> and i'm poking my way around the source trying to learn what's what and what's where
[21:39:30] <paul_c> mrallen: A1) The configure script expects to find either rtlinux or rtai installed - It need not be the same kernel that is running.
[21:40:29] <xet7> What external hardware is available for EMC? Pendants, joysticks, handwheels, building instructions of them or something for sale?
[21:41:40] <mrallen> paul_c: how mature/stable is EMC2 vs EMC? I presume that 4.18 which I'm running is a slughtly older version of EMC. Can they co-exist if I want to play with both?
[21:42:28] <jepler> xet7: I haven't got reports from anyone using it, but I wrote some software that should let any linux-supported joystick work as a pendant. http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi/software/01119021973
[21:42:51] <jepler> (huh, that page lays out a bit oddly ...)
[21:42:59] <Jymmm> If anyone needs to preload their ballnuts --> http://www.precisionballs.com/
[21:43:14] <paul_c> mrallen: emc2 will coexist on the same box...
[21:43:34] <paul_c> but I wouldn't use it in a production environment.
[21:44:36] <Jymmm> jepler: I've been meaning to ask you.... what is/was the purpose of a REGULTED LED flashlight?
[21:45:30] <jepler> Jymmm: Regulated means you don't waste much power in a current-limiting resistor, and get even brightness over the life of the battery
[21:46:01] <Jymmm> jepler: and there isn't any VR's that could do that?
[21:46:33] <jepler> Jymmm: I am using a regulator. mic2570 boost-mode regulator.
[21:47:03] <jepler> Jymmm: it failed mostly because I made a poor choice of battery to fit the form-factor I wanted.
[21:47:35] <Jymmm> jepler ah, ok.
[21:48:04] <Jymmm> jepler how much power loss are you getting?
[21:49:21] <jepler> Jymmm: I don't know how efficient the regulator is, though I think somewhere in the 70-80% range
[21:50:10] <Jymmm> jepler: Hmmm, big loss there. Ok, good to know =)
[21:50:13] <jepler> Jymmm: the problem is that when it tried to draw lots of current from the coin cells, the input voltage dropped. the coin cells are designed for things like CMOS battery back-up, supplying micro-amps instead of ~100mA
[21:50:39] <Jymmm> jepler ever considered a 'N' battery?
[21:50:43] <Jymmm> 12vdc
[21:50:50] <cradek> N is 1.5v
[21:51:22] <jepler> Jymmm: that wouldn't work with the general circuit design---this is a boost-mode regulator, so the input voltage must be lower than the output voltage.
[21:51:58] <jepler> Jymmm: I've seen LED flashlight designs that use some small 6- or 12-volt cell, but those involve wasting a lot of power in a resistor, and lose brightness as the battery discharges.
[21:52:31] <cradek> jepler: you could use a buck regulator I guess
[21:54:00] <Jymmm> jepler: I was thinking with use of those high out 12V LED's (but I haven't played wtith them yet)
[21:54:40] <Jymmm> cradek what is the battery that is close to 'N' size but is 12V ?
[21:55:02] <jepler> there are LEDs with Vf around 12 volts?
[21:56:09] <Jymmm> cradek: Ah... 12BA
[21:56:28] <cradek> A23/GP23A or A27/GP27A
[21:56:57] <cradek> used in a lot of garage door openers
[21:57:07] <Jymmm> and keychain remotes
[21:58:39] <cradek> http://www.batteries.com/productprofile.asp?appid=315123&cmp=KAC-Froogle
[21:58:47] <cradek> here's the one you should use
[22:00:35] <cradek> http://www.batteries.com/productprofile.asp?appid=315126
[22:00:39] <cradek> I'm surprised they still make these
[22:01:05] <jepler> that page isn't loading for me. Are you showing me a joke, or a serious suggestion?
[22:01:18] <jepler> oh, a joke, OK
[22:01:19] <cradek> a joke. 45/67v batteries.
[22:01:26] <Jymmm> cradek I was surprised they were still making them 15 years ago
[22:01:28] <xet7> good night
[22:01:36] <cradek> http://www.batteries.com/productprofile.asp?appid=315128
[22:02:52] <Jymmm> I just want to know what device uses that
[22:03:15] <cradek> I would guess it's B voltage for portable tube transmitters
[22:03:17] <AchiestDragon> some old valve radios use them
[22:03:34] <cradek> AchiestDragon: 300V B+ is pretty rare on any receiver
[22:04:07] <Jymmm> valve radio?
[22:04:24] <cradek> Jymmm: british valve = american tube
[22:04:28] <Jymmm> ah
[22:05:55] <Jymmm> I havne't even owned a tube Rx in decades
[22:06:13] <cradek> AchiestDragon: I think the console receiver in my living room has 300v on the output tubes, I guess
[22:06:15] <AchiestDragon> there usualy 275V bats
[22:06:39] <Jymmm> cradek receiver or amp?
[22:06:53] <AchiestDragon> also need 6 or 12v bat for the heaters
[22:06:54] <cradek> Jymmm: big zenith receiver
[22:07:16] <Jymmm> cradek: Um, I'm willing to GIVE you a new fangled solid state receiver =)
[22:07:41] <Jymmm> if nothing else but to save you on electricity =)
[22:07:50] <cradek> well thanks, but it wouldn't sound as good on AM, it wouldn't receive shortwave, and it wouldn't be as nice to look at.
[22:08:22] <Jymmm> fair enough
[22:08:36] <cradek> but it would save on electricity, true
[22:08:43] <AchiestDragon> and the tube radios are the only oned that will survive the emp from a nuke
[22:08:57] <Jymmm> tube amps I like, tube anything else, is another story.
[22:10:01] <Jymmm> AchiestDragon So, is a EMP suppose to kill 'whatever' if if unpowered at the time?
[22:10:41] <AchiestDragon> like a direct lightning strike
[22:10:55] <Jymmm> ah
[22:11:29] <Jymmm> wouldn't lighting make a tube go POP!
[22:12:25] <AchiestDragon> no
[22:12:28] <cradek> no, it fries the coils
[22:12:30] <cradek> typically
[22:12:38] <cradek> but only a direct hit to your antenna
[22:13:29] <cradek> the old timers called transistors "three-legged fuses"
[22:13:32] <cradek> haha
[22:13:54] <cradek> they would always instantly go out to "protect" the other circuit elements (like resistors)
[22:14:42] <AchiestDragon> when a transistor goes it oftern goes short , and takes the next one down , and so on
[22:16:31] <AchiestDragon> mosfets go the other way , and if you overload a mosfet it goes open when it gets hot , if you power down and let the things cool down , thay usualy work as good as new again
[22:20:53] <Jymmm> AchiestDragon 12V LED http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Chicago%20Miniature/Web%20Data/4302F1-12V.pdf
[22:22:02] <Jymmm> ah, a built in resistor.
[22:24:52] <Jymmm> AchiestDragon http://www.sunbriteleds.com/
[22:25:06] <alex_joni> hi guys
[22:25:23] <paul_c> Alex !!!
[22:25:30] <paul_c> Where's my postcard ??
[22:26:13] <alex_joni> must have been hijacked
[22:26:15] <alex_joni> :D
[22:27:00] <alex_joni> what's new?
[22:27:15] <paul_c> BDI-4.23
[22:27:18] <paul_c> BDI-4.24
[22:27:22] <paul_c> BDI-4.25
[22:27:30] <alex_joni> 4.25 is already on my mirror
[22:27:30] <paul_c> and maybe BDI-4.26
[22:28:40] <alex_joni> wot's wrong with 25?
[22:29:58] <AchiestDragon> Jymmm: http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=43953&TabID=1&WorldID=&doy=6m9
[22:30:55] <Jymmm> AchiestDragon http://www.sunbriteleds.com/product.asp?id=86
[22:31:07] <alex_joni> hey Jymmm
[22:31:14] <Jymmm> howdy alex_joni =)
[22:31:28] <alex_joni> what's up?
[22:31:57] <Jymmm> alex_joni SSDD =)
[22:32:10] <alex_joni> ssdd?
[22:32:21] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Same Shit, Different Day.
[22:32:24] <picnet> * picnet Nods to Paul.
[22:32:45] <alex_joni> picnet: try smthg harder
[22:32:51] <alex_joni> like a baseball bat
[22:33:20] <picnet> that bad? - ive gone from idling for months to dropingin for 2 minutes every 6 months.
[22:33:23] <paul_c> good greif Charles Brown...
[22:33:34] <picnet> yes its me.
[22:33:36] <paul_c> issa picnet
[22:34:01] <picnet> just wondering how things are and if theres been substantial enhancement to emc, (it has wings?)
[22:34:15] <picnet> them fuureners dont get it.
[22:34:16] <alex_joni> almost :D
[22:38:56] <paul_c> alex_joni: Toying with the idea of using a 2.6.12 kernel for the next build...
[22:40:08] <picnet> i have a box that watches tv for me using seems ok so far.
[22:44:32] <alex_joni> 25 is still 2.6.10 based?
[22:45:06] <alex_joni> btw, seen an email from microios
[22:45:12] <alex_joni> microio
[22:48:17] <paul_c> didn't see any follow ups...
[22:48:23] <alex_joni> right
[22:48:31] <alex_joni> that's what I was wondering
[22:48:48] <alex_joni> the boards look pretty ok, a bit expensive maybe
[22:48:50] <paul_c> how good is your Italian ?
[22:49:03] <alex_joni> a bit better than your german :D
[22:49:17] <alex_joni> but Jacky^ might be better in that field
[22:52:19] <alex_joni> I wonder how good their code is
[22:52:39] <alex_joni> from what I see, the boards are supposed to be able to act as a axis controller
[22:52:50] <alex_joni> and you should stack a few to control a machine
[22:57:18] <alex_joni> brb
[22:59:45] <alex_joni> paul_c: you need to change the Topic ;)
[23:04:25] <paul_c> paul_c has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home page www.linuxcnc.org | Regular Developer's meetings every Sunday between 14:00 & 18:00 GMT | General linux discussions and support the rest of the week. | BDI-4.25 released. Minor bug fixes to EMC
[23:07:29] <paul_c> alex_joni: Happy now ?
[23:07:56] <alex_joni> very much so
[23:08:18] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is having some FF's
[23:09:28] <anonimasu> ffs?
[23:09:48] <alex_joni> fisherman's friend
[23:10:05] <anonimasu> oh
[23:10:21] <alex_joni> just got some apple & cinnamon
[23:11:42] <anonimasu> ok
[23:12:00] <anonimasu> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9225821/
[23:12:06] <alex_joni> how's stuff over there?
[23:12:10] <anonimasu> I think GNU just put the last nail in it's coffin
[23:14:23] <anonimasu> hectic..
[23:14:38] <alex_joni> how much did the trees grow?
[23:14:56] <anonimasu> no clue
[23:15:30] <anonimasu> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
[23:18:35] <jepler> anonimasu: I'm not sure what you mean by "it's", but this story about how a new revision of the GPL will change how it handles patents has been around for a few months
[23:18:56] <alex_joni> hey jepler
[23:19:27] <jepler> anonimasu: but remember, you'll be able to use all GPL v1 and GPL v2 software under the old license if you choose, and nothing stops you from releasing new software under the older versions either
[23:19:35] <jepler> hey alex
[23:20:36] <jepler> so maybe gplv3 will fail to be widely adopted, but it doesn't mean anything about GNU or about free software in general
[23:21:12] <alex_joni> I think even if there's a draft containing some weird stuff, it will be discussed next year
[23:21:13] <anonimasu> jepler: I dont care too much.. but the more restrictions gnu includes the harder it will be for it to be valid..(legally)
[23:21:22] <alex_joni> and changed till it fits the majority that will use it
[23:22:34] <anonimasu> I'd like to see how it holds up in a court..(I hope it will)
[23:23:22] <jepler> imagine that tomorrow gplv2 is held up by some nation's courts. wouldn't that slow the transition to gplv3, since you can take the one you know is enforcable or the better one that is still not known to be enforcable?
[23:24:05] <robin_sz> MEEP!
[23:24:10] <anonimasu> m33p
[23:24:13] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is feeling load today
[23:24:15] <alex_joni> peew
[23:24:21] <robin_sz> alex!
[23:24:24] <alex_joni> right
[23:24:30] <robin_sz> long time .. where you been?
[23:24:31] <anonimasu> robin_sz: did you change tio a larger fuse?
[23:24:31] <alex_joni> last time I checked it was alex
[23:24:36] <Jacky^> wee alex_joni
[23:24:40] <Jacky^> evening
[23:24:41] <alex_joni> robin_sz: croatia, then italy
[23:24:50] <Jacky^> ah...italy ..
[23:25:00] <robin_sz> anonimasu: no, I pulled the motor off, stripped it .. no sign of explosions
[23:25:01] <Jacky^> where ??
[23:25:07] <robin_sz> fired it up .. ran fine
[23:25:16] <robin_sz> checked the wirting .. thats OK too
[23:25:25] <robin_sz> no eyed deer why it went bang
[23:25:45] <alex_joni> Jacky^: rome for 1 week
[23:25:49] <robin_sz> alex_joni: I saw soem interesting welding bits on ebay but coulnt contact you
[23:26:03] <alex_joni> and 1 day near bologna
[23:26:07] <Jacky^> alex_joni: bad weather week :((
[23:26:35] <alex_joni> not really
[23:26:38] <alex_joni> it was great
[23:26:45] <alex_joni> was 2 days at ostia :)
[23:26:47] <Jacky^> here storm every day ..
[23:26:51] <alex_joni> robin_sz: something nice?
[23:26:56] <Jacky^> ostia ? nice ..
[23:26:58] <alex_joni> Jacky^: it didn't rain at all
[23:26:59] <robin_sz> alex_joni: there was a guy selling some abicor binzel welding toolholders for robots .. with the colision detection mounts
[23:27:15] <alex_joni> robin_sz: pretty ok ;)
[23:27:16] <alex_joni> but I wouldn't buy them
[23:27:22] <robin_sz> ah, ok
[23:27:29] <robin_sz> they went for lik $5 each
[23:27:29] <alex_joni> abicor is OK for manual use
[23:27:32] <Jacky^> alex_joni: next time.. you will come more south..
[23:27:38] <Jacky^> :)
[23:27:54] <alex_joni> Jacky^: planning on visiting sicily some day
[23:27:59] <robin_sz> anyway I had some welding questions for you :)
[23:28:07] <alex_joni> robin_sz: on 5$ it should be ok
[23:28:09] <Jacky^> well, onli 90 km from here
[23:28:11] <alex_joni> robin_sz: shoot
[23:28:15] <robin_sz> so ...
[23:28:30] <robin_sz> we have apotential of some subcontract work to weld up some water tanks
[23:28:38] <anonimasu> http://www.airtrax.com/flash/mp2_video_viewer.html
[23:28:44] <robin_sz> say, 2m, 1.5m x 1m
[23:28:57] <robin_sz> bige enough to be a pain in the arse to do manually
[23:29:24] <anonimasu> robin_sz: argh
[23:29:43] <robin_sz> its "corner to corner" welding ...
[23:29:53] <robin_sz> if you know what I mean
[23:30:01] <alex_joni> corner to corner?
[23:30:05] <anonimasu> hm, that stuff is cool
[23:30:05] <robin_sz> mmm ...
[23:30:08] <alex_joni> L ?
[23:30:27] <robin_sz> but the corners of the sheets
[23:30:40] <robin_sz> leaving an externa L shaped groove at the corner
[23:30:49] <alex_joni> robin_sz: one bit of advice
[23:30:55] <robin_sz> ?
[23:31:05] <alex_joni> before deciding anything... look at the tolerances
[23:31:18] <alex_joni> will you do the cutting aswell?
[23:31:19] <robin_sz> mmm .. thats easy
[23:31:26] <robin_sz> it says "must not leak"
[23:31:26] <alex_joni> or will you only need to weld them?
[23:31:34] <robin_sz> laser cut and weld
[23:31:35] <anonimasu> heh
[23:31:43] <anonimasu> what kind of pressure's ?
[23:31:44] <anonimasu> none?
[23:31:48] <alex_joni> so no quality restraints?
[23:31:50] <alex_joni> 1 bar ok ?
[23:31:54] <alex_joni> no testing?
[23:31:54] <robin_sz> full of water ...
[23:31:58] <alex_joni> no quality class?
[23:32:01] <alex_joni> heh ;)
[23:32:02] <robin_sz> no
[23:32:03] <alex_joni> sounds ok
[23:32:08] <alex_joni> what sheet thickness?
[23:32:14] <robin_sz> just a water test before shipping
[23:32:16] <robin_sz> 3mm
[23:32:22] <alex_joni> pretty thin
[23:32:26] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:32:31] <alex_joni> should go nicely with 0.8 mm wire
[23:32:42] <alex_joni> ~ 100-150 A
[23:32:51] <robin_sz> you think it would be possible to make some sort of tracked auto-seamer?
[23:32:55] <alex_joni> I'd say around 60-70 cm /min
[23:33:04] <alex_joni> you wouldn't be able to weld without
[23:33:10] <alex_joni> 3mm bends as hell
[23:33:23] <robin_sz> well, it would be pre-atcked up manually
[23:33:26] <robin_sz> tacked
[23:33:29] <alex_joni> there are quite a few tracking sensors
[23:33:39] <alex_joni> tacked doesn't count ;)
[23:33:41] <alex_joni> it still bends
[23:33:45] <alex_joni> after the weld
[23:33:52] <anonimasu> sick forklift.
[23:34:02] <robin_sz> so basically, suck things exist ..some sort of track you fix on the tank and it welds the edge?
[23:34:04] <alex_joni> so senseros:
[23:34:13] <alex_joni> sensors:
[23:34:22] <alex_joni> 1. tactile (pretty bad, but cheap)
[23:34:27] <alex_joni> 2. non-tactile
[23:34:41] <alex_joni> 2.1. inductive/capacitiv (like for plasma cutting)
[23:34:59] <alex_joni> 2.2. laser scanning (2D, 3D, ..)
[23:35:03] <alex_joni> 2.3. camera based
[23:35:12] <alex_joni> 2.4. process dependent sensors
[23:35:17] <alex_joni> I use 2.4 a lot
[23:35:17] <robin_sz> I presume 1 is basically some roller bearings?
[23:35:34] <alex_joni> yeah, or smthg like a joystick with a ball on the end
[23:35:38] <alex_joni> that follows the track
[23:35:55] <robin_sz> right
[23:35:56] <alex_joni> and it moves left right, up/down
[23:36:25] <alex_joni> there are tractors (that's the name I now of) for welding straight lines
[23:36:37] <robin_sz> all this will ever need to do is the corners of tanks
[23:36:44] <alex_joni> these are generally a wide range of sizes / models
[23:36:45] <robin_sz> right
[23:36:59] <alex_joni> from small Bug-O (tm) systems
[23:37:06] <alex_joni> to larger tractors
[23:37:15] <alex_joni> the ones we sell are about 50 kg
[23:37:18] <alex_joni> AC servo
[23:37:20] <robin_sz> welding tractor ... just align the start and finish clamp the rail down and set it off?
[23:37:27] <alex_joni> right
[23:37:37] <alex_joni> we sold a few of these
[23:37:41] <robin_sz> interesting
[23:37:50] <alex_joni> pretty solid, can carry about 40-50 kg payload ;)
[23:38:02] <robin_sz> would be WAY better than my hand welding right?
[23:38:04] <alex_joni> that's a small MIG inverter along with wire & co
[23:38:07] <alex_joni> right
[23:38:24] <alex_joni> about 7-8k EUR
[23:38:37] <alex_joni> needs a track you can build yourself
[23:38:57] <alex_joni> there are also some very small ones (<2k EUR) iirc
[23:39:08] <alex_joni> those ride directly on the workpiece
[23:39:11] <robin_sz> for just a torch?
[23:39:14] <alex_joni> magnetic wheels
[23:39:16] <alex_joni> right
[23:39:22] <alex_joni> small DC motor
[23:39:27] <alex_joni> not very precise
[23:39:42] <robin_sz> ok, so such things exist already ...
[23:39:57] <alex_joni> a lot of them
[23:40:02] <alex_joni> don't bother building one ;)
[23:40:11] <robin_sz> * robin_sz crosses that off the list
[23:40:25] <alex_joni> if you want I can collect some leaflets next week
[23:40:33] <alex_joni> * alex_joni will be attending the fair in essen
[23:40:40] <alex_joni> the biggest welding fair ;)
[23:40:41] <robin_sz> weldex?
[23:41:00] <alex_joni> schweissen & schneiden
[23:41:09] <alex_joni> once every 4 years
[23:46:38] <anonimasu> nite
[23:46:38] <robin_sz> nite nite anonimasu
[23:46:38] <robin_sz> alex_joni: on final question ... position
[23:46:38] <robin_sz> best results in the flat?
[23:46:38] <robin_sz> or vertical?
[23:46:38] <alex_joni> flat
[23:46:38] <alex_joni> avoid vertical if possible
[23:46:38] <robin_sz> so flat ...
[23:46:38] <robin_sz> one surface flatm the other vertical and weld on the corner?
[23:46:38] <alex_joni> speed is up to 100% greater on flat
[23:46:38] <alex_joni> right
[23:46:38] <alex_joni> if possible tilt it
[23:46:38] <robin_sz> 45?
[23:46:38] <alex_joni> so both surfaces are at 45
[23:46:38] <alex_joni> right
[23:46:43] <alex_joni> gives you the best speed
[23:47:01] <alex_joni> but it can get you into trouble if you have openings between the sheets
[23:47:06] <alex_joni> spaces
[23:47:07] <robin_sz> OK, Ill go buy a small tractor
[23:47:18] <alex_joni> ;)
[23:47:37] <alex_joni> http://www.bugo.com/