#emc | Logs for 2005-09-02

[00:00:46] <paul_c> The most likely problem was if mountwas broken, but it works fine on all the installs I've done.
[00:01:13] <paul_c> and I'm sure someone would have shouted about very quickly.
[00:01:46] <Jacky^> in some case, i found dma enabled/disabled can do some prob on cd-rom devices ..
[00:02:03] <Jacky^> i like to use hdparm to check it
[00:02:23] <paul_c> right - One reason I recommend using IDE0 for the HD, and IDE1 for the CD drive
[00:03:21] <rayh-sm> ocalhost:/cdrom# md5sum /dev/hdc
[00:03:21] <rayh-sm> error processing /dev/hdc: failed in buffer_read(fd): mdfile: Input/output error
[00:04:57] <paul_c> Has that box got a second CD drive fitted ?
[00:05:03] <rayh-sm> no
[00:05:15] <rayh-sm> now the drive is busy and will not umount.
[00:05:54] <Jacky^> rayh-sm: try fuser
[00:06:01] <rayh-sm> Think I'll shut down, get 4.24 and see if that works.
[00:06:07] <rayh-sm> fuser?
[00:06:07] <paul_c> kill md5sum first
[00:06:23] <Jacky^> to know which process are busy ..
[00:06:46] <rayh-sm> bash: kill: md5sum: no such pid
[00:07:11] <Jacky^> fuser -km /home kills all processes accessing the file system /home in
[00:07:12] <Jacky^> any way.
[00:07:34] <Jacky^> fuser -km /mnt/cdrom or where is mounted
[00:08:24] <rayh-sm> that worked on /cdrom
[00:09:07] <Jacky^> then, fuser -km /cdrom should work..
[00:09:20] <rayh-sm> I'll see if cncgear has 4.24 in the am here.
[00:09:30] <Jacky^> but i think your system become very instable now..
[00:09:54] <rayh-sm> how so?
[00:10:01] <paul_c> The md5 file will be the last to upload - If you don't see that, the process failed.
[00:11:44] <rayh-sm> sounds good. Thanks for all the work.
[00:12:41] <paul_c> sodit... Was going to tell hime to replace the IDE cables.
[00:13:09] <Jacky^> :(
[00:13:56] <paul_c> dunno what he does, but Ray always seems to be able to break my installs.
[00:17:19] <Jacky^> hehe
[00:18:11] <Jacky^> he's a good tester :)
[00:18:30] <paul_c> nope.
[00:34:01] <Jymmm> * Jymmm doens't find bugs, bugs find me!
[00:36:51] <Jacky^> Jymmm: lol
[00:37:16] <Jymmm> It's true... usually within 10 minutes I can find at least one bug.
[00:43:23] <Jacky^> if a bug exist, it can be fixed
[00:43:43] <Jacky^> computer programs are difficult..
[00:43:56] <Jacky^> people wont understand this
[00:44:28] <Jacky^> or.. it dont like them
[00:45:45] <Jacky^> they*
[00:49:12] <Jacky^> G night
[00:49:19] <Jymmm> G'Night Jacky^
[00:49:22] <paul_c> g'night Jacky^
[00:49:29] <Jacky^> night
[00:52:26] <Jymmm> What do I need to configure to "tune" emc to my machine?
[00:53:48] <paul_c> scales set correctly ?
[00:54:27] <Jymmm> I mean is their a checkoff list or step-by-step that I could go thru?
[00:57:56] <paul_c> you have read the wiki/handbook pages....
[00:58:30] <Jymmm> The wiki is lacking organization, and I'm on pg 34 of the user handbook
[00:58:41] <paul_c> accel & PID are sort of a gut feeling and testing..
[00:59:49] <Jymmm> accel == the poitn of 'ramp up' speed ?
[00:59:57] <Jymmm> or ramp down.
[01:00:07] <paul_c> yup
[01:00:30] <Jymmm> I dont know why I need it for sherline or even my machien.
[01:00:47] <paul_c> max velocity can be guesstimated from period & scales.
[01:02:07] <Jymmm> would i even need accel ?
[01:02:26] <paul_c> you need accel for all types of machines, otherwise it will try to accelerate faster than the motors can handle - This leads to lost steps and other such nasties.
[01:03:01] <Jymmm> oh so accel != max rpm ?
[01:03:14] <paul_c> How fast canyour car accelerate in a straight line ?
[01:03:37] <Jymmm> Mine? 1/4 mile in 2.3 hours
[01:03:52] <paul_c> * paul_c can get it higher than that...
[01:03:55] <Jymmm> almost 5000 punds =)
[01:04:01] <paul_c> 9.81m/Sec^2
[01:11:52] <Jymmm> would it be better to work on a copy of generic.* or emc.* ?
[01:13:42] <paul_c> there isn't that much to choose between the two
[01:15:04] <Jymmm> ok, generic it is.
[01:16:32] <paul_c> take a backup copy, or run emc with "./generic.run -ini jymmm.ini"
[01:17:17] <Jymmm> I was gonna do: cp generic.* Jymmm.*
[01:17:42] <paul_c> eeeks... No need to copy generic.run
[01:17:48] <paul_c> look at the size...
[01:18:05] <paul_c> and then look at the other *.run scripts
[01:18:25] <Jymmm> ah
[01:18:48] <paul_c> and *.nml is unlikely to change
[01:19:45] <paul_c> .var, .tbl, & .ini are all you need - Even then, the .var & .tbl can remain as generic/emc
[01:20:46] <Jymmm> ok, so really just need to modify ini to get goin and can cp/edit others later if needed.
[01:20:55] <Jymmm> I just wanna make some quality sawdust already!
[01:21:12] <Jymmm> even if it's a 4" sqaure with a 90 deg v-cutter
[01:22:12] <paul_c> s/sawdust/kittie litter/
[01:23:04] <Jymmm> Heh... OKEY! it's MDF so they'll love that!!!
[01:23:28] <paul_c> MDF != quality
[01:23:51] <Jymmm> by quality I mean clen
[01:23:54] <Jymmm> clean
[01:24:10] <Jymmm> not just a scrap 2x4 out of the trashcan
[01:24:44] <paul_c> cherry/walnut/ash/hornbeam
[01:24:55] <Jymmm> not during testing/setup =)
[01:25:30] <paul_c> gonna do a webcast ?
[01:25:37] <anna_emc> good night
[01:25:44] <Jymmm> night anna
[01:25:46] <paul_c> night anna_emc
[01:25:53] <anna_emc> ciao jepler
[01:25:54] <Jymmm> video you mean?
[01:26:15] <anna_emc> hello paul_c
[01:26:25] <paul_c> live web cast so we can see the mistakes in real time
[01:26:37] <paul_c> sleep well Anna.
[01:26:46] <anna_emc> thanks
[01:35:38] <dmess> hi all
[01:35:48] <paul_c> eeuuwww... 20-30KB/s transfer rate across a local lan
[01:36:15] <dmess> for what???
[01:36:18] <paul_c> Yo dmess
[01:36:37] <Jymmm> thats not a LAN, thats a tin cup
[01:36:41] <paul_c> 625Meg file...
[01:36:57] <dmess> how so??
[01:37:32] <paul_c> doing an md5sum on one terminal, and using scp to transfer on another
[01:38:23] <dmess> md5 hauls alot a cpu $$$
[01:39:14] <paul_c> log in on another terminal and see...
[01:40:20] <paul_c> more memory would help...
[01:40:29] <dmess> ive gotta relocate 3 machines... 1 EMC box... i small compact monitor in all,,, and the mp3 data box
[01:41:00] <dmess> into a room ive already moved another son into
[01:41:28] <paul_c> Do you have a kennel ?
[01:41:42] <dmess> soon..
[01:41:47] <paul_c> for son ?
[01:43:37] <dmess> sons... and possibly puppies too..
[01:44:35] <dmess> im the new proud owner of a female pug... & get this... a Bernese Mountain dog
[01:44:59] <dmess> twins.. from different moms
[01:46:33] <dmess> how much ram paul_c
[01:48:03] <paul_c> How much would I like ?
[01:48:12] <dmess> could emc & linux use and appreciate the hyperthreading capabilities of the HT processors???
[01:50:05] <paul_c> from what I've heard, HT is a killer
[01:50:22] <dmess> really???
[01:51:30] <dmess> killer GOOD..or BAD
[01:52:44] <paul_c> generally bad.
[01:53:20] <paul_c> However, it would be nice to get some real numbers on a HT enabled kernel.
[01:53:38] <dmess> this XP box i built for my wife... hauls ass
[01:54:05] <dmess> i have one in a case.. board.. no ps
[01:55:17] <dmess> maybe next week.. this week i have to buy mat for a model to save the planet
[01:59:59] <paul_c> gotta get more horsepower in to that sstem I use for building the ISO on..
[02:01:08] <jepler> paul_c: does bdi 4.xx even boot with an smp kernel?
[02:01:17] <jepler> if not, that HT will run like any other pentium4
[02:04:45] <paul_c> Never tried running an smp kernel..
[02:04:46] <dmess> speak to me guys...
[02:04:59] <Jymmm> dmess: woof!
[02:05:32] <dmess> jymmm yap
[02:05:46] <Jymmm> paul_c why does it need horsepower? is it compiling?
[02:06:14] <paul_c> suffling gigs of data around..
[02:06:22] <Jymmm> ah
[02:07:18] <paul_c> loadsa swap in use, and massive disk activity.
[02:07:35] <Jymmm> sounds like you need more ram
[02:08:26] <paul_c> memory, faster disks, more memory..
[02:08:33] <Jymmm> lol
[02:08:33] <jepler> It's still not cheap to have enough RAM that making and burning an ISO doesn't touch the hard disk..
[02:09:09] <Jymmm> jepler say that again?
[02:09:57] <jepler> Jymmm: If you want to create a 700MB .iso from 700MB of files, then write it to a CDROM, you'll need 1.4GB of memory to use as a cache for those files.
[02:10:04] <paul_c> doesn't help that *that box is only a 1GHz Nehemiah
[02:10:33] <Jymmm> jepler: most mobo today support at LEAST 2gb
[02:10:35] <paul_c> jepler: Plus extra for the processing app.
[02:10:52] <jepler> paul_c: right, plus whatever your system regularly uses .. 256 megs for kde, etc.
[02:11:09] <paul_c> that box is running headless.
[02:11:19] <jepler> that probably helps
[02:11:20] <Jymmm> I just upgraded my laptop today from 128 to 256 (it's max).
[02:11:21] <dmess> please.. stop... horsepower you cant put DOWN is useless
[02:11:46] <paul_c> dmess: Bragging points ;)
[02:12:04] <Jymmm> dmess just like a horse, you can shoot a mobo sqaure in the cpu!
[02:12:37] <jepler> cradek: REALIZE doesn't do arcs? I thought I remembered you working through the way to translate arc representation from autocad to g-code
[02:13:06] <dmess> they smoke under power... ahhh beautiful...
[02:13:22] <jepler> cradek: or did I misunderstand what you were saying earlier about it? the page mentions arcs further down...
[02:13:25] <Jymmm> what is 'emcpanel' any screenshots available?
[02:13:37] <dmess> out front and smilin'....
[02:13:41] <jepler> 06:39:48 <cradek> CR750: ARC and CIRCLE are not directly supported
[02:13:41] <jepler> 06:39:59 <cradek> CR750: only LINE and POLYLINE
[02:17:21] <jepler> Jymmm: it's a text-mode program
[02:17:28] <jepler> Jymmm: so a screenshot doesn't show much
[02:17:44] <Jymmm> jepler: I've seen keystick, is it much different than that?
[02:17:59] <jepler> yes, it's like a command-line prompt
[02:18:36] <Jymmm> oh, so no position feedback, etc?
[02:20:40] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/emcpanel.png
[02:21:14] <jepler> there's a "show" command, it can probably show the position
[02:21:59] <Jymmm> Ah, a sadistic version of keystick. got it.
[02:22:56] <Jymmm> jepler ty
[02:23:03] <jepler> no problem
[02:23:19] <mrallen> anyone know the difference between the BDI (which I think I learned is the Braindest Installation) and the version shipped with the Sherline CNC mill?
[02:23:51] <paul_c> * paul_c hides
[02:24:12] <mrallen> s/Braindest/Braindead
[02:24:33] <paul_c> s/Brainsead/Brain Dead/
[02:24:33] <jepler> Jymmm: frankly I think axis is probably better than emcpanel
[02:24:55] <jepler> but between keystick and axis, I'm not sure
[02:25:11] <paul_c> mrallen: Sherline are using BDI-4.18 on their machines...
[02:25:34] <paul_c> But that will change shortly to 4.24 (or later)
[02:26:00] <Jymmm> jepler: Heh, just had a seg fault in axis
[02:26:16] <mrallen> paul_c: easy (read safe) upgrade path?
[02:27:52] <paul_c> depends on a couple of things...
[02:28:29] <paul_c> Is the Sherline install a full, everything on the CD install, or just the essential
[02:28:33] <Jymmm> jepler: I like keystick fo rthe fact it requires no X and does update the dispaly to show position and status.
[02:28:57] <mrallen> paul_c: dunno. I think the CD has a full re-install. it came pre-installed.
[02:29:27] <mrallen> * mrallen checking out CVS from sf
[02:29:34] <Jymmm> jepler Running KeyStick on the console and TkEMC on XP is kinda slick... both are update at the same time.
[02:29:35] <paul_c> I know if you do a dist-upgrade, thinks can break...
[02:29:55] <mrallen> paul_c: then i won't do that
[02:30:15] <paul_c> mrallen: Upgrading a few packages at a time is usually save enough..
[02:30:31] <mrallen> paul_c: how dependent is EMC on the kernel version, libraries, etc. can I upgrade EMC without mucking with a new kernel?
[02:30:32] <paul_c> s/save/safe/
[02:31:28] <paul_c> the EMC Debian package is split in to two sections... Kernel modules in one, usr space in another
[02:32:05] <paul_c> upgrading one without the other should be OK most of the time.
[02:34:29] <paul_c> Jymmm: See http://www.cncgear.com/EMC/BDI/Change.log
[02:34:37] <mrallen> with the url you have me added to sources.list, how do I a) check that the upgrade is possible/safe, b) do the upgrade and if it fails, back out?
[02:35:59] <paul_c> apt-get install --dry-run emc tk8.4
[02:36:52] <paul_c> should pull in updated libc6, tcl8.4, and maybe libc6-dev
[02:37:12] <mrallen> i noticed emc existed as a package in other sources --- before adding your url -- how do i know i'm gettign it from the right source?
[02:37:16] <paul_c> the --dry-run flag only simulates changes.
[02:38:07] <paul_c> apt will always go for the latest version (unless pinning is involved, but Sherline don't use that)
[02:38:58] <mrallen> paul_c: thanks much - off to investigate. back in a few.
[02:39:09] <paul_c> afore you go...
[02:39:14] <mrallen> ya
[02:39:34] <paul_c> my outgoing bandwidth is taking a hammering at the mo...
[02:39:58] <mrallen> need a mirror? i have oodles of spare bandwidth on a high-speed (100mb) link
[02:40:18] <paul_c> * paul_c drools...
[02:41:12] <paul_c> space to host a small updates repository would be great, as would any new mirrors for the ISO
[02:42:20] <mrallen> at the moment i have something like 50-100GB/month that i'm paying for that goes unused. how much would this add up to? happy to do it if it won't kill that.
[02:42:41] <paul_c> If you can wait 10-12 hours... I would suggest burning a copy of 4.24 and I'll guide you through apt & update tomorrow.
[02:43:24] <mrallen> no hurry here. gotta run for a few. back in 30.
[02:43:44] <paul_c> A small updates repository would probably be less than a Gig per month...
[02:44:43] <paul_c> Sherline were hitting 1TB/mo at one point, but that was for all the BDI images plus a bunch of other stuff.
[02:46:23] <Jymmm> how come generic starts a console, and sherline (inch) doens't?
[02:47:01] <paul_c> 'cos Sherline users don't (generally) want/need debug info.
[02:47:11] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[02:47:55] <paul_c> yer average Windows usr would be confused by a console popping up.
[02:48:43] <Jymmm> ok, wasn't sure if it's a nix things or a emc one.
[02:48:52] <Jymmm> s/it's/it was/
[02:49:30] <paul_c> nah... Pandering to the lowest common denominator
[02:49:42] <Jymmm> lol
[02:49:54] <Jymmm> Well AXIS is out... seg faulted
[02:50:10] <paul_c> on 4.23 ?
[02:50:22] <Jymmm> 420
[02:50:57] <paul_c> ah... I have a sneaky feeling something got broken for axis in 4.20
[02:51:18] <Jymmm> np. I made a ghost image =)
[02:51:32] <paul_c> that & axis was beta release back then.
[02:52:12] <paul_c> didya look at that link earlier ?
[02:52:33] <Jymmm> I musta missed it
[02:52:46] <paul_c> http://www.cncgear.com/EMC/BDI/Change.log
[02:55:49] <Jymmm> ROTF.... "Just for Jymmm...."
[02:55:54] <Jymmm> ty
[02:56:14] <paul_c> watch the final size...
[02:56:24] <paul_c> 4.23 is 631Megs
[02:56:41] <paul_c> 4.24 will be 625.3Megs
[02:56:55] <Jymmm> what are you getting rid of?
[02:57:03] <paul_c> yet it has more on it than the earlier release.
[02:57:04] <mrallen> reading the changelog it says sherline docs added. where? is the CVS out of date because that's where i'm looking.
[02:57:34] <paul_c> Sherline docs added to the CD, not CVS
[02:58:48] <mrallen> since i'm new around here i might ask a lot of stupid questions. please bear with me.
[02:59:23] <mrallen> it's my habit to grab the source first and poke around
[02:59:28] <paul_c> there are no "stupid questions"... Silly answers, maybe..
[03:00:27] <mrallen> is there another source archive that has the rest of the stuff that makes up the iso?
[03:01:44] <paul_c> http://ftp.debian.org/debian
[03:02:18] <paul_c> except for a couple of packages, all the sources are there..
[03:04:56] <Jymmm> changes made to ini are not live, beaing that emc has to be restarted,. correct?
[03:05:00] <Jymmm> meaning
[03:05:10] <paul_c> correct
[03:05:24] <Jymmm> ok, just wanted to be sure.
[03:05:51] <paul_c> although... You can change some of them on the fly via usrmot or tkemc
[03:06:45] <Jymmm> I'm still trying to figure out what I need to change =)
[03:08:20] <paul_c> let's start from the top... what is period set to ?
[03:09:10] <Jymmm> 0.000024
[03:09:58] <paul_c> OK. Max step freq. will be 20.83KHz
[03:10:09] <paul_c> and scales = ?
[03:11:19] <Jymmm> I haven't done anything except cp the generic.ini file
[03:11:33] <paul_c> OK.. set to 1000
[03:12:07] <Jymmm> input_scale?
[03:12:27] <paul_c> input_scale=output_scale
[03:13:05] <Jymmm> I dont see a field that JSUT says SCALES =
[03:13:44] <paul_c> scales is short hand for both.
[03:14:04] <Jymmm> ok. input says 1000 0
[03:15:04] <paul_c> right.. so a 20.83KHz freq gives a max velocity of 20ips
[03:15:15] <Jymmm> ewwwwwwwww
[03:15:23] <Jymmm> oh, per second
[03:15:41] <paul_c> divide by three or four... (rule of thumb)
[03:16:16] <Jymmm> Sorry Paul, I have no clue what those fields mean/do or are for.
[03:16:17] <paul_c> 5ips would be reasonable...
[03:17:36] <paul_c>
[03:18:01] <paul_c> that might help explain some of the parameters.
[03:19:43] <Jymmm> I need to work on speed and machien settings 1" on emc being 1" travel on machien.
[03:20:19] <paul_c> * paul_c notes going off to access the p0rn dir.
[03:21:24] <Jymmm> free p0rn?
[03:22:04] <paul_c> shaver.jpg
[03:22:37] <Jymmm> cant even get to the server
[03:23:46] <paul_c> got about 600B/sec spare bandwidth at the mo.
[03:23:55] <Jymmm> lol
[03:25:18] <Jymmm> your cooking now!
[03:25:47] <paul_c> It's going to be slow downloads from here for another eight hours
[03:26:24] <Jymmm> I bet.
[03:26:59] <Jymmm> for the remote GUI, in the emc.nml the server IP is hard coded like 50 times. any way to make it a variable of some sort?
[03:27:37] <paul_c> use host name and let DNS resolve it
[03:27:55] <Jymmm> assuming I had dns on the lan =)
[03:28:15] <paul_c> /etc/hosts
[03:28:29] <Jymmm> no biggy, I just do a search and replace. but was just seemed a variable would be easier.
[03:29:31] <Jymmm> oh hell... Ithink it was anonmous that told me what buffer value I needed to change . damn
[03:37:08] <Jymmm> When I try to start TkEMC on XP I'm getting a bunch of errors. iirc anonmous had me change a buffer value in emc.nml to fix it. But I'm not sure what the value was suppose to be. any ideas?
[03:40:44] <paul_c> emcStatus - 1024
[03:40:50] <paul_c> emcStatus - 10240
[03:41:35] <Jymmm> Hmmm. ok that's correct. Now I wonder what I screwed up this time!
[03:49:11] <paul_c> gone. bed.
[04:20:09] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[04:20:09] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[09:53:26] <Jacky^> morning
[12:53:49] <cradek> jepler: POLYLINE segments can be arcs or lines - they are fully supported
[13:22:27] <rayh-sm> rayh-sm is now known as rayh-sm-away
[14:00:41] <mrallen> anyone know of bugs in 4.18 that would cause it to loop on two instructions for a while then crash the Z?
[14:37:46] <cradek> what do you mean loop?
[15:09:46] <mrallen> crap. i think i know what happened .. the Y axis cable fell off
[15:10:04] <cradek> oh!
[15:11:05] <mrallen> so it was tracing X +/- with no Y movement .. then Z plunged down for another cut in the wrong spot
[15:11:34] <cradek> I'm glad you found that it's not a software problem
[15:11:42] <mrallen> me too
[15:12:08] <mrallen> another 4 hours to get back to where i was befoer
[16:47:24] <CIA-4> 03Zathras 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/comps.xml: File changed. New revision:picax.xml
[16:48:11] <CIA-4> 03Zathras 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/comps-4.23.xml: File changed. New revision:comps-4.24.xml
[17:12:38] <Jymmm> Mornin Gentlemen
[17:23:33] <Jacky^> hi Jymmm
[17:50:42] <Jymmm> can one add images to a wiki entry?
[18:51:50] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ yawns
[18:52:00] <anonimasu_> maybe I should give the mill a shot..
[18:52:49] <anonimasu_> I feel like cutting some alu..
[20:19:37] <Jacky^> hello
[20:49:26] <anonimasu_> hello
[20:49:26] <anonimasu_> :)
[20:49:33] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ has the machine running nicely at 2m/min
[20:49:42] <anonimasu_> no strange behaviour and smooth motion..
[20:49:51] <anonimasu_> although I havent played with the PID yet
[20:51:57] <Jacky^> anonimasu_:
[20:52:01] <Jacky^> ehhh
[20:52:03] <Jacky^> :)
[20:53:52] <anonimasu_> ?
[20:53:59] <anonimasu_> so tomorrow I'll be making some parts
[20:54:35] <Jacky^> anonimasu_: .. you talk talk ..
[20:54:40] <Jacky^> lets see ..
[20:54:44] <Jacky^> some pics ?
[20:54:56] <Jacky^> parts parts ..
[20:54:59] <Jacky^> where ??
[20:55:01] <Jacky^> O_O
[20:55:52] <Jacky^> what have you doing today ??
[20:56:35] <anonimasu_> Jacky^: worked?
[20:56:41] <Jacky^> sure
[20:56:47] <Jacky^> work, jobs !
[20:57:05] <anonimasu_> building a control system for the huydralics in a racecar..
[20:57:12] <Jacky^> uhm..
[20:57:22] <Jacky^> what is ?
[20:57:26] <Jacky^> no idea ..
[20:57:33] <anonimasu_> Jacky^: STOP RANTING AND MAKE SENSE
[20:57:41] <Jacky^> i want to show you some pic of mi work
[20:57:48] <anonimasu_> ok
[20:57:51] <Jacky^> today i've done ..
[20:58:08] <Jacky^> i'm tryng tu upload pics..
[20:58:16] <Jacky^> server seem down :\
[20:58:39] <Jacky^> http://www.roboitalia.com/
[20:58:51] <Jacky^> can you reach it ?
[21:00:02] <Jacky^> ah.. ok
[21:00:08] <Jacky^> yahoo seem work
[21:00:41] <anonimasu_> want to have a look at my work?
[21:00:48] <anonimasu_> roboitalia is down
[21:00:50] <Jacky^> suree
[21:00:50] <anonimasu_> :/
[21:00:57] <Jacky^> I know ..
[21:01:24] <Jacky^> uploading on yahoo
[21:03:07] <anonimasu_> www.bojn.net/~an0n/1.3gp
[21:03:09] <anonimasu_> www.bojn.net/~an0n/2.3gp
[21:03:10] <anonimasu_> www.bojn.net/~an0n/3.3gp
[21:03:13] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ uploading ..
[21:04:00] <Jacky^> which format is 3gp ? :\
[21:04:12] <anonimasu_> quicktime..
[21:04:20] <anonimasu_> my cellphone grabs videos like that..
[21:04:22] <Jacky^> aaarghh
[21:04:31] <Jacky^> bleah :(((
[21:04:44] <Jacky^> don't you like png ?
[21:05:04] <anonimasu_> it's videos.
[21:05:18] <Jacky^> ah ..
[21:05:26] <Jacky^> sorry
[21:05:31] <Jacky^> i can't play it
[21:05:34] <Jacky^> :\
[21:05:47] <Jacky^> too strange format
[21:05:47] <anonimasu_> ah well.. do as you like..
[21:05:59] <Jacky^> :(
[21:06:15] <Jacky^> ok ..
[21:06:36] <Jacky^> i'v not codec for 3gp format
[21:06:44] <Jacky^> first time i eard
[21:07:37] <anonimasu_> you can convert them on linux if you like..
[21:07:42] <anonimasu_> http://tuxmobil.org/free_movies.html
[21:08:07] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ umpf ..
[21:08:10] <Jacky^> okay
[21:08:17] <Jacky^> i will try ..
[21:08:20] <cradek> anonimasu_: HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
[21:08:44] <anonimasu_> ah wait a sec again
[21:08:51] <anonimasu_> 1&2 is there now :)
[21:08:51] <Jacky^> anonimasu_: :P
[21:09:03] <Jacky^> upload completed
[21:09:19] <Jacky^> take a look ok today works: http://it.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcsoftware2001/album?.dir=ea2b
[21:09:25] <Jacky^> :))
[21:09:34] <anonimasu_> the first one gives a good glimpse on how fast the stuff is going
[21:09:45] <cradek> QuickTime/MOV file format detected.
[21:09:48] <cradek> Cannot find codec matching selected -vo and video format 0x33363273.
[21:10:11] <anonimasu_> I'll convert them to something
[21:10:14] <Jacky^> i like this : http://it.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcsoftware2001/detail?.dir=ea2b&.dnm=6d4a.jpg&.src=ph
[21:10:18] <Jacky^> :D
[21:10:40] <Jacky^> great cat :P
[21:10:54] <cradek> my cats also like my cnc equipment
[21:11:02] <Jacky^> :P
[21:11:12] <cradek> one sometimes "cleans up" the metal shavings with her tail
[21:11:15] <Jacky^> thta's my room ..
[21:11:28] <Jacky^> :\
[21:11:41] <anonimasu_> cradek: there's a howto on how to grab the codecs on the page I posted
[21:11:49] <anonimasu_> for mplayer
[21:12:09] <anonimasu_> it'll be converted in a sec..
[21:14:45] <anonimasu_> hm, dosent seem to work
[21:16:12] <Jacky^> Jymmm: ??
[21:16:20] <Jacky^> you around ?
[21:16:22] <anonimasu_> wait a sec
[21:16:43] <Jacky^> ok ..
[21:17:26] <anonimasu_> no, dosent work..
[21:18:01] <Jacky^> anonimasu_: whats the prob ?
[21:18:23] <anonimasu_> the utility supposed to convert stuff for me dosent work.
[21:18:29] <Jacky^> are you tryng to convert yours videos ?
[21:18:33] <anonimasu_> yes
[21:18:58] <Jacky^> what are you using ?
[21:19:14] <anonimasu_> some shareware.
[21:19:24] <Jacky^> mmhh...
[21:19:34] <Jacky^> ok
[21:19:44] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ is looking at your pictures
[21:19:50] <Jacky^> :))
[21:19:57] <Jacky^> hard day !
[21:20:07] <anonimasu_> ?
[21:20:13] <anonimasu_> you need to clean your shop
[21:20:14] <anonimasu_> :D
[21:20:17] <Jacky^> lot of work ..
[21:20:24] <Jacky^> :\
[21:20:28] <anonimasu_> it's worse then mine
[21:20:32] <Jacky^> i will do it tomorrow..
[21:20:37] <Jacky^> I hope :)
[21:20:41] <anonimasu_> hehe
[21:20:45] <Jacky^> ;)
[21:21:21] <anonimasu_> I am kind of looking forward to making parts again
[21:21:53] <Jacky^> hehe
[21:24:31] <anonimasu_> it's been a while but the machine seems really smooth
[21:25:20] <Jacky^> just a toy ..
[21:25:47] <anonimasu_> what?
[21:26:12] <Jacky^> my machine, its just a toy
[21:26:23] <Jacky^> what youre talking about ?
[21:26:24] <anonimasu_> mine too..
[21:26:27] <Jacky^> :)
[21:26:37] <anonimasu_> I AM TALKING ABOUT MY machine..
[21:26:41] <anonimasu_> argh..
[21:26:44] <Jacky^> great
[21:26:56] <Jacky^> yours its a lathe
[21:27:01] <anonimasu_> no.
[21:27:01] <Jacky^> i know ..
[21:27:17] <Jacky^> no ?
[21:27:25] <anonimasu_> it's a mill, and soon to be a lathe.
[21:27:31] <Jacky^> ah ok..
[21:27:55] <Jacky^> this winter will be our ..
[21:28:11] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ goes away
[21:29:23] <Jymmm> you rang Jacky^?
[21:29:57] <Jacky^> hey Jymmm :)
[21:30:20] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ slaps Jymmm
[21:30:24] <Jacky^> take a look: http://it.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcsoftware2001/detail?.dir=ea2b&.dnm=9f3d.jpg&.src=ph
[21:30:32] <Jacky^> :P
[21:30:46] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: I've been playing with the mill this afternoon
[21:31:08] <Jymmm> Jacky^ Foreign what?
[21:31:25] <Jymmm> anonimasu_ and?
[21:31:57] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: it runs smoothly there's nothing more about it..
[21:31:58] <Jacky^> Jymmm: there's a plate from four country ..
[21:31:59] <anonimasu_> :)
[21:32:04] <Jacky^> have you seen ??
[21:32:27] <Jymmm> anonimasu_ so, you got the usc card working correctly?
[21:32:32] <anonimasu_> yes
[21:32:42] <Jymmm> anonimasu_ what did you have to do?
[21:32:56] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: nothing really... just tweak my speeds
[21:32:58] <anonimasu_> :)
[21:33:10] <Jymmm> how so?
[21:33:21] <anonimasu_> oh, set the accel/decel to sensible limits..
[21:33:30] <anonimasu_> err acceleration.. and velocity
[21:34:23] <Jymmm> so, what kinda of speeds are you getting now that you couldn't get before?
[21:34:38] <anonimasu_> not any yet..
[21:34:52] <anonimasu_> I get 2m/min easily without tweaking the PID loops.
[21:35:06] <Jymmm> I wish I knew what PID does/is.
[21:35:26] <anonimasu_> following error correction...
[21:35:38] <Jacky^> FF1
[21:35:41] <Jymmm> is that like missed/gained steps?
[21:35:42] <Jacky^> 7.5
[21:35:53] <anonimasu_> dampeningjy
[21:36:18] <Jymmm> resonance dampening?
[21:36:35] <anonimasu_> yeah that too..
[21:36:44] <anonimasu_> stiffness/dampening..
[21:37:00] <anonimasu_> Jacky^: that's feedforward..
[21:37:15] <Jymmm> ok, I'm still confused. I'm trying to setup my machien now, and reading the handbook, but I still not getting everything yet.
[21:37:57] <Jymmm> so, I'm not being a smartass to you anonimasu_, just trying to understand all the little aspects of it all.
[21:38:33] <anonimasu_> dont worry about it
[21:39:12] <Jymmm> there's no step-by-step to it
[21:39:34] <anonimasu_> no, but you dont have to worry about your PID settings..
[21:39:36] <Jymmm> I know I need to make some adjustments so 1" == 1" travel
[21:39:41] <anonimasu_> ah
[21:39:43] <anonimasu_> input_scale
[21:39:45] <anonimasu_> :D
[21:39:52] <anonimasu_> is the number of steps per unit
[21:40:08] <Jymmm> ok, so now I know where to put 16000
[21:40:24] <anonimasu_> ask away if there's more :)
[21:40:25] <Jymmm> when I use generic or sherline it's gawd slow
[21:40:34] <anonimasu_> max_accel
[21:40:39] <anonimasu_> acceleration
[21:40:43] <anonimasu_> and default_acceleration
[21:40:48] <anonimasu_> and max_velocity
[21:40:49] <Jymmm> are thsoe two differetn field?
[21:40:51] <anonimasu_> and default_velocity
[21:41:11] <anonimasu_> default/max?
[21:41:12] <anonimasu_> yes
[21:41:23] <Jymmm> ok, so accel is the speed at which it goes from 0 to 60mph?
[21:41:28] <anonimasu_> yeah
[21:41:34] <Jymmm> and velocity is the 60mph
[21:41:36] <Jymmm> ?
[21:41:39] <anonimasu_> yes
[21:41:49] <anonimasu_> accel is you acceleration and deceleration limit
[21:41:56] <anonimasu_> max_acceleration
[21:42:08] <Jymmm> and what is default velocity? when jogging, or normal operation?
[21:42:13] <anonimasu_> and deafult is the speed it will accelerate on on normal non rapid moves
[21:42:28] <Jymmm> define 'rapid' ?
[21:42:31] <anonimasu_> g0
[21:42:42] <Jymmm> g0 == rapid?
[21:42:45] <anonimasu_> yeah
[21:42:51] <Jymmm> ok, didnt know tha.t
[21:43:00] <Jymmm> what would max jogging speed be?
[21:43:00] <anonimasu_> g1 = normal move
[21:43:11] <Jymmm> manually of course.
[21:43:29] <anonimasu_> well, the max_velocity is how fast you can jog.
[21:43:34] <anonimasu_> at most..
[21:43:35] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[21:44:03] <Jymmm> max_vel is the ulimate maxiumum speed I'll ever got no matter what?
[21:44:05] <anonimasu_> I cant remember where the default does apply I keep it about 65% of my max..
[21:44:08] <anonimasu_> yes
[21:44:15] <Jymmm> ok, good to know.
[21:44:40] <Jymmm> I should write these down, but I'll just go thru my irc loggs and maybe make a wiki entry.
[21:44:56] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hates ambiguity
[21:45:04] <dmess> hi all
[21:45:09] <anonimasu_> usually to get a machine running it's a matter of tweaking input_scale.. and then setting up max_velocity, max_accel & defaults..
[21:45:35] <dmess> APT programming is unambiguious
[21:45:46] <anonimasu_> that makes the machine usable
[21:46:05] <dmess> and now whats involved??
[21:46:10] <Jymmm> max_accel I'm not sure about. I know for a LARGE machine you would need it, but paul said that even my lil machien needs it too.
[21:46:23] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: it's the MAX acceleration
[21:46:27] <Jacky^> ufff
[21:46:44] <dmess> whats your max table load??
[21:46:50] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: for rapid moves/moves that require more accel to get up to speed
[21:46:57] <Jacky^> relax !
[21:47:11] <anonimasu_> if you have a short move for example g1 x20 f200
[21:47:17] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: if you make the accel numbers small, you will be able to hear the motors ramp up to speed
[21:47:39] <Jymmm> anonimasu_: Right, but with the belt removed I can turn the leadscrew with my pinky. Doesn't sem like a lot or any accel at all is needed.
[21:47:41] <anonimasu_> you will have to accelerate faster then the default to get up to speed..
[21:48:32] <Jymmm> LawrenceG When I jogged with the sherline, I do hear/see it accel up/down
[21:48:36] <LawrenceG> then you can turn them to larger numbers to make the moves snappier... at some point you will exceed the motors capability and if steppers, they will stall... if servos, they will probably fault on following error
[21:48:52] <Jymmm> it always keeps going past the point I let go of the button.
[21:49:08] <dmess> it SHOULD all come from a max table load variable somewhere... then its a matter of setup factor between the mass and the G force available from the drive
[21:49:15] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: too low acceleration..
[21:49:22] <anonimasu_> argh..
[21:49:53] <dmess> tell it its lighter...
[21:49:54] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: your acceleartion/deceleration is set way too low, if that occurs..
[21:49:59] <Jymmm> anonimasu_ yeah, that I get. But what I dont get it is if there's some calculation to start a baseline and go from there or if it's just hit-n-miss.
[21:50:13] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: it's units^2s or something
[21:50:24] <Jymmm> I dont want to prematurely wear out my motors of course.
[21:50:43] <dmess> depends on the proir modal g code
[21:50:53] <Jymmm> dmess this is just jogging.
[21:51:00] <anonimasu_> you can graph your ferror and see if you can crank out pulses, and what ferror you are getting...
[21:51:09] <LawrenceG> with most new motion systems, you start will everything slow and gentle (low velocity and low accels)
[21:51:11] <Jymmm> anonimasu_ ferror?
[21:51:23] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: following error...
[21:51:30] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: hit/n miss works nicely
[21:51:31] <Jymmm> LawrenceG what you think this is a virgin bride or soemthing?! =)
[21:51:37] <Jymmm> anonimasu_ ok, fair enough
[21:51:40] <dmess> slow is good to avoid Accel farts..
[21:51:52] <anonimasu_> I set it up until the machine works smoothly.. but will snap a bit if i do rapid moves..
[21:52:12] <Jymmm> snap being jump/skip steps?
[21:52:16] <LawrenceG> then you can sneak up the velocities to find out top speed before it faults
[21:52:17] <anonimasu_> nope
[21:52:22] <dmess> and inhaling a computer chair thru your ass
[21:52:38] <anonimasu_> snap as in going from 0 to 1500mm/min in 1 sec
[21:52:38] <LawrenceG> machine hops across the rrom
[21:52:52] <Jymmm> LawrenceG that I understand =)
[21:53:04] <Jymmm> like the walking washing machine =)
[21:53:22] <Jymmm> or the nuckle buster wrench
[21:53:30] <Jymmm> *WACK*
[21:53:31] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: you can set your accel as high until you start missing steps..
[21:53:37] <dmess> open up the in position window??
[21:54:10] <anonimasu_> I dont know about motor wear..
[21:54:16] <Jymmm> anonimasu_ ok cool. any other fields I need to be aware of in that respect?
[21:54:32] <anonimasu_> well set them at a comfortable level..
[21:54:43] <Jymmm> anonimasu_ btw, was it you that sent me the link for TkEMC on M$ ?
[21:54:44] <anonimasu_> I hate waiting for accel/decels.. so I keep them high..
[21:54:47] <anonimasu_> no
[21:54:58] <anonimasu_> and well, I am speedfreak ;D
[21:55:00] <Jymmm> ok, musta been alex then.
[21:55:07] <Jymmm> anonimasu_ we all are.
[21:55:09] <dmess> is there a field for while in accel/decel position dont matter??
[21:55:31] <anonimasu_> dmess: no, you have ferror and min_ferror
[21:55:36] <paul_c> Jymmm: blame alex_joni
[21:56:06] <dmess> ok but who /what monitort them???
[21:56:13] <anonimasu_> dmess: what?
[21:56:40] <Jymmm> paul_c heh, thats ok =)
[21:56:43] <Jymmm> brb...
[21:56:50] <dmess> ferror and the limits... are to do what with??
[21:57:06] <anonimasu_> dmess: what do you mean?
[21:57:07] <paul_c> following errors
[21:57:12] <anonimasu_> 23:52 < dmess> ok but who /what monitort them???
[21:57:18] <anonimasu_> 23:51 < dmess> is there a field for while in accel/decel position dont matter??
[21:57:39] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ is very confused
[21:58:16] <dmess> sorry anon... what does ferror do??
[21:58:27] <anonimasu_> it sets up the maximum allowed ferror..
[21:58:31] <anonimasu_> err following error
[21:59:06] <dmess> ok too many new words these days..
[22:00:15] <dmess> well during accel / decel ferror needs to be at a min.. but in order to do it it needs feed to drop
[22:01:23] <anonimasu_> no, if you have to drop your feed to keep your desired accel.. your motors/inertia matching are wrong and you are working outside of your machine limits
[22:01:56] <anonimasu_> dmess: that's what the pid loop is supposed to keep under control..
[22:05:12] <Jymmm> If I dont have any encoders (just steppers), I dont need to even need to look at PID, do i?
[22:05:33] <anonimasu_> well pid is used internally..
[22:05:44] <anonimasu_> but I've never touched it when I ran my machine with paralell port steppers
[22:05:52] <Jymmm> ok, so I'll forget all about PID, at least for now =)
[22:06:01] <anonimasu_> yes
[22:06:03] <cradek> for steppers, set P=100 or so and I,D,FF* to 0
[22:06:11] <Jymmm> Celeron 366 w/ 256MB ram.... any stating suggestions for PERIOD ?
[22:06:19] <Jymmm> starting
[22:06:40] <dmess> ANAON.. THX.. PID INFO.. all the more reason opening position window might help
[22:06:49] <anonimasu_> dmess: what?
[22:07:38] <anonimasu_> as far as I am aware of there's no such setting.
[22:08:00] <dmess> to stop the jerk & stutter
[22:09:13] <dmess> really... in position tolerance?? ... where i am versus where i should be... to close the loop
[22:09:29] <anonimasu_> that's what the pid loop does.
[22:10:04] <dmess> so open up the zone to let it move..
[22:10:31] <anonimasu_> and the fact that the goverment?
[22:10:35] <anonimasu_> whoops wrong place
[22:10:36] <anonimasu_> ?
[22:13:42] <dmess> governments only half the facts.. dont have a clue what to do with em..
[22:13:59] <paul_c> Jymmm: For a 366 Celery, try 0.000025
[22:14:24] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ goes away
[22:14:27] <Jymmm> paul_c: will do. how did you come up with that value btw?
[22:15:20] <paul_c> experience.
[22:15:39] <Jymmm> would that make you a emc slut?
[22:15:52] <paul_c> 0.000022 on a 433MHz is bearable...
[22:16:13] <Jymmm> oh, it's that clue to each other huh?
[22:16:13] <paul_c> 0.000030 is about right on a P133
[22:16:36] <paul_c> so 0.000025 would be middlin' for 366MHz
[22:18:44] <Jymmm> wow, tight tolerance. what if I'm not running X, same value?
[22:21:07] <paul_c> if you're not running X, you might get away with 0.000020
[22:21:36] <Jymmm> ok. at least I have a starting range to play with.
[22:21:56] <_AchiestDragon> _AchiestDragon is now known as AchiestDragon
[23:38:13] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ umpf..