The most likely problem was if mountwas broken, but it works fine on all the installs I've done.
and I'm sure someone would have shouted about very quickly.
in some case, i found dma enabled/disabled can do some prob on cd-rom devices ..
i like to use hdparm to check it
right - One reason I recommend using IDE0 for the HD, and IDE1 for the CD drive
ocalhost:/cdrom# md5sum /dev/hdc
error processing /dev/hdc: failed in buffer_read(fd): mdfile: Input/output error
Has that box got a second CD drive fitted ?
now the drive is busy and will not umount.
rayh-sm: try fuser
Think I'll shut down, get 4.24 and see if that works.
kill md5sum first
to know which process are busy ..
bash: kill: md5sum: no such pid
fuser -km /home kills all processes accessing the file system /home in
fuser -km /mnt/cdrom or where is mounted
that worked on /cdrom
then, fuser -km /cdrom should work..
I'll see if cncgear has 4.24 in the am here.
but i think your system become very instable now..
The md5 file will be the last to upload - If you don't see that, the process failed.
sounds good. Thanks for all the work.
sodit... Was going to tell hime to replace the IDE cables.
dunno what he does, but Ray always seems to be able to break my installs.
he's a good tester :)
* Jymmm doens't find bugs, bugs find me!
It's true... usually within 10 minutes I can find at least one bug.
if a bug exist, it can be fixed
computer programs are difficult..
people wont understand this
or.. it dont like them
What do I need to configure to "tune" emc to my machine?
scales set correctly ?
I mean is their a checkoff list or step-by-step that I could go thru?
you have read the wiki/handbook pages....
The wiki is lacking organization, and I'm on pg 34 of the user handbook
accel & PID are sort of a gut feeling and testing..
accel == the poitn of 'ramp up' speed ?
or ramp down.
I dont know why I need it for sherline or even my machien.
max velocity can be guesstimated from period & scales.
would i even need accel ?
you need accel for all types of machines, otherwise it will try to accelerate faster than the motors can handle - This leads to lost steps and other such nasties.
oh so accel != max rpm ?
How fast canyour car accelerate in a straight line ?
Mine? 1/4 mile in 2.3 hours
* paul_c can get it higher than that...
almost 5000 punds =)
would it be better to work on a copy of generic.* or emc.* ?
there isn't that much to choose between the two
ok, generic it is.
take a backup copy, or run emc with "./generic.run -ini jymmm.ini"
I was gonna do: cp generic.* Jymmm.*
eeeks... No need to copy generic.run
look at the size...
and then look at the other *.run scripts
and *.nml is unlikely to change
.var, .tbl, & .ini are all you need - Even then, the .var & .tbl can remain as generic/emc
ok, so really just need to modify ini to get goin and can cp/edit others later if needed.
I just wanna make some quality sawdust already!
even if it's a 4" sqaure with a 90 deg v-cutter
Heh... OKEY! it's MDF so they'll love that!!!
MDF != quality
by quality I mean clen
not just a scrap 2x4 out of the trashcan
not during testing/setup =)
gonna do a webcast ?
video you mean?
live web cast so we can see the mistakes in real time
sleep well Anna.
eeuuwww... 20-30KB/s transfer rate across a local lan
thats not a LAN, thats a tin cup
doing an md5sum on one terminal, and using scp to transfer on another
md5 hauls alot a cpu $$$
log in on another terminal and see...
more memory would help...
ive gotta relocate 3 machines... 1 EMC box... i small compact monitor in all,,, and the mp3 data box
into a room ive already moved another son into
Do you have a kennel ?
for son ?
sons... and possibly puppies too..
im the new proud owner of a female pug... & get this... a Bernese Mountain dog
twins.. from different moms
how much ram paul_c
How much would I like ?
could emc & linux use and appreciate the hyperthreading capabilities of the HT processors???
from what I've heard, HT is a killer
killer GOOD..or BAD
However, it would be nice to get some real numbers on a HT enabled kernel.
this XP box i built for my wife... hauls ass
i have one in a case.. board.. no ps
maybe next week.. this week i have to buy mat for a model to save the planet
gotta get more horsepower in to that sstem I use for building the ISO on..
paul_c: does bdi 4.xx even boot with an smp kernel?
if not, that HT will run like any other pentium4
Never tried running an smp kernel..
speak to me guys...
paul_c why does it need horsepower? is it compiling?
suffling gigs of data around..
loadsa swap in use, and massive disk activity.
sounds like you need more ram
memory, faster disks, more memory..
It's still not cheap to have enough RAM that making and burning an ISO doesn't touch the hard disk..
jepler say that again?
Jymmm: If you want to create a 700MB .iso from 700MB of files, then write it to a CDROM, you'll need 1.4GB of memory to use as a cache for those files.
doesn't help that *that box is only a 1GHz Nehemiah
jepler: most mobo today support at LEAST 2gb
jepler: Plus extra for the processing app.
paul_c: right, plus whatever your system regularly uses .. 256 megs for kde, etc.
that box is running headless.
that probably helps
I just upgraded my laptop today from 128 to 256 (it's max).
please.. stop... horsepower you cant put DOWN is useless
dmess: Bragging points ;)
dmess just like a horse, you can shoot a mobo sqaure in the cpu!
cradek: REALIZE doesn't do arcs? I thought I remembered you working through the way to translate arc representation from autocad to g-code
they smoke under power... ahhh beautiful...
cradek: or did I misunderstand what you were saying earlier about it? the page mentions arcs further down...
what is 'emcpanel' any screenshots available?
out front and smilin'....
06:39:48 <cradek> CR750: ARC and CIRCLE are not directly supported
06:39:59 <cradek> CR750: only LINE and POLYLINE
Jymmm: it's a text-mode program
Jymmm: so a screenshot doesn't show much
jepler: I've seen keystick, is it much different than that?
yes, it's like a command-line prompt
oh, so no position feedback, etc?
[02:20:40] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/emcpanel.png
there's a "show" command, it can probably show the position
Ah, a sadistic version of keystick. got it.
anyone know the difference between the BDI (which I think I learned is the Braindest Installation) and the version shipped with the Sherline CNC mill?
* paul_c hides
Jymmm: frankly I think axis is probably better than emcpanel
but between keystick and axis, I'm not sure
mrallen: Sherline are using BDI-4.18 on their machines...
But that will change shortly to 4.24 (or later)
jepler: Heh, just had a seg fault in axis
paul_c: easy (read safe) upgrade path?
depends on a couple of things...
Is the Sherline install a full, everything on the CD install, or just the essential
jepler: I like keystick fo rthe fact it requires no X and does update the dispaly to show position and status.
paul_c: dunno. I think the CD has a full re-install. it came pre-installed.
* mrallen checking out CVS from sf
jepler Running KeyStick on the console and TkEMC on XP is kinda slick... both are update at the same time.
I know if you do a dist-upgrade, thinks can break...
paul_c: then i won't do that
mrallen: Upgrading a few packages at a time is usually save enough..
paul_c: how dependent is EMC on the kernel version, libraries, etc. can I upgrade EMC without mucking with a new kernel?
the EMC Debian package is split in to two sections... Kernel modules in one, usr space in another
upgrading one without the other should be OK most of the time.
Jymmm: See http://www.cncgear.com/EMC/BDI/Change.log
with the url you have me added to sources.list, how do I a) check that the upgrade is possible/safe, b) do the upgrade and if it fails, back out?
apt-get install --dry-run emc tk8.4
should pull in updated libc6, tcl8.4, and maybe libc6-dev
i noticed emc existed as a package in other sources --- before adding your url -- how do i know i'm gettign it from the right source?
the --dry-run flag only simulates changes.
apt will always go for the latest version (unless pinning is involved, but Sherline don't use that)
paul_c: thanks much - off to investigate. back in a few.
afore you go...
my outgoing bandwidth is taking a hammering at the mo...
need a mirror? i have oodles of spare bandwidth on a high-speed (100mb) link
* paul_c drools...
space to host a small updates repository would be great, as would any new mirrors for the ISO
at the moment i have something like 50-100GB/month that i'm paying for that goes unused. how much would this add up to? happy to do it if it won't kill that.
If you can wait 10-12 hours... I would suggest burning a copy of 4.24 and I'll guide you through apt & update tomorrow.
no hurry here. gotta run for a few. back in 30.
A small updates repository would probably be less than a Gig per month...
Sherline were hitting 1TB/mo at one point, but that was for all the BDI images plus a bunch of other stuff.
how come generic starts a console, and sherline (inch) doens't?
'cos Sherline users don't (generally) want/need debug info.
yer average Windows usr would be confused by a console popping up.
ok, wasn't sure if it's a nix things or a emc one.
nah... Pandering to the lowest common denominator
Well AXIS is out... seg faulted
on 4.23 ?
ah... I have a sneaky feeling something got broken for axis in 4.20
np. I made a ghost image =)
that & axis was beta release back then.
didya look at that link earlier ?
I musta missed it
[02:52:46] <paul_c> http://www.cncgear.com/EMC/BDI/Change.log
ROTF.... "Just for Jymmm...."
watch the final size...
4.23 is 631Megs
4.24 will be 625.3Megs
what are you getting rid of?
yet it has more on it than the earlier release.
reading the changelog it says sherline docs added. where? is the CVS out of date because that's where i'm looking.
Sherline docs added to the CD, not CVS
since i'm new around here i might ask a lot of stupid questions. please bear with me.
it's my habit to grab the source first and poke around
there are no "stupid questions"... Silly answers, maybe..
is there another source archive that has the rest of the stuff that makes up the iso?
[03:01:44] <paul_c> http://ftp.debian.org/debian
except for a couple of packages, all the sources are there..
changes made to ini are not live, beaing that emc has to be restarted,. correct?
ok, just wanted to be sure.
although... You can change some of them on the fly via usrmot or tkemc
I'm still trying to figure out what I need to change =)
let's start from the top... what is period set to ?
OK. Max step freq. will be 20.83KHz
and scales = ?
I haven't done anything except cp the generic.ini file
OK.. set to 1000
I dont see a field that JSUT says SCALES =
scales is short hand for both.
ok. input says 1000 0
right.. so a 20.83KHz freq gives a max velocity of 20ips
oh, per second
divide by three or four... (rule of thumb)
Sorry Paul, I have no clue what those fields mean/do or are for.
5ips would be reasonable...
[03:17:36] <paul_c> http://220.127.116.11/nist/projects/emc/emcsoft.html
that might help explain some of the parameters.
I need to work on speed and machien settings 1" on emc being 1" travel on machien.
* paul_c notes 18.104.22.168 going off to access the p0rn dir.
cant even get to the server
got about 600B/sec spare bandwidth at the mo.
your cooking now!
It's going to be slow downloads from here for another eight hours
for the remote GUI, in the emc.nml the server IP is hard coded like 50 times. any way to make it a variable of some sort?
use host name and let DNS resolve it
assuming I had dns on the lan =)
no biggy, I just do a search and replace. but was just seemed a variable would be easier.
oh hell... Ithink it was anonmous that told me what buffer value I needed to change . damn
When I try to start TkEMC on XP I'm getting a bunch of errors. iirc anonmous had me change a buffer value in emc.nml to fix it. But I'm not sure what the value was suppose to be. any ideas?
emcStatus - 1024
emcStatus - 10240
Hmmm. ok that's correct. Now I wonder what I screwed up this time!
Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
jepler: POLYLINE segments can be arcs or lines - they are fully supported
rayh-sm is now known as rayh-sm-away
anyone know of bugs in 4.18 that would cause it to loop on two instructions for a while then crash the Z?
what do you mean loop?
crap. i think i know what happened .. the Y axis cable fell off
so it was tracing X +/- with no Y movement .. then Z plunged down for another cut in the wrong spot
I'm glad you found that it's not a software problem
another 4 hours to get back to where i was befoer
03Zathras 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/comps.xml: File changed. New revision:picax.xml
03Zathras 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/comps-4.23.xml: File changed. New revision:comps-4.24.xml
can one add images to a wiki entry?
* anonimasu_ yawns
maybe I should give the mill a shot..
I feel like cutting some alu..
* anonimasu_ has the machine running nicely at 2m/min
no strange behaviour and smooth motion..
although I havent played with the PID yet
so tomorrow I'll be making some parts
anonimasu_: .. you talk talk ..
lets see ..
some pics ?
parts parts ..
what have you doing today ??
work, jobs !
building a control system for the huydralics in a racecar..
what is ?
no idea ..
Jacky^: STOP RANTING AND MAKE SENSE
i want to show you some pic of mi work
today i've done ..
i'm tryng tu upload pics..
server seem down :\
[20:58:39] <Jacky^> http://www.roboitalia.com/
can you reach it ?
yahoo seem work
want to have a look at my work?
roboitalia is down
I know ..
uploading on yahoo
* Jacky^ uploading ..
which format is 3gp ? :\
my cellphone grabs videos like that..
don't you like png ?
i can't play it
too strange format
ah well.. do as you like..
i'v not codec for 3gp format
first time i eard
you can convert them on linux if you like..
[21:07:42] <anonimasu_> http://tuxmobil.org/free_movies.html
* Jacky^ umpf ..
i will try ..
anonimasu_: HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
ah wait a sec again
1&2 is there now :)
take a look ok today works: http://it.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcsoftware2001/album?.dir=ea2b
the first one gives a good glimpse on how fast the stuff is going
QuickTime/MOV file format detected.
Cannot find codec matching selected -vo and video format 0x33363273.
I'll convert them to something
i like this : http://it.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcsoftware2001/detail?.dir=ea2b&.dnm=6d4a.jpg&.src=ph
great cat :P
my cats also like my cnc equipment
one sometimes "cleans up" the metal shavings with her tail
thta's my room ..
cradek: there's a howto on how to grab the codecs on the page I posted
it'll be converted in a sec..
hm, dosent seem to work
you around ?
wait a sec
no, dosent work..
anonimasu_: whats the prob ?
the utility supposed to convert stuff for me dosent work.
are you tryng to convert yours videos ?
what are you using ?
* anonimasu_ is looking at your pictures
hard day !
you need to clean your shop
lot of work ..
it's worse then mine
i will do it tomorrow..
I hope :)
I am kind of looking forward to making parts again
it's been a while but the machine seems really smooth
just a toy ..
my machine, its just a toy
what youre talking about ?
I AM TALKING ABOUT MY machine..
yours its a lathe
i know ..
it's a mill, and soon to be a lathe.
this winter will be our ..
* anonimasu_ goes away
you rang Jacky^?
hey Jymmm :)
* anonimasu_ slaps Jymmm
take a look: http://it.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcsoftware2001/detail?.dir=ea2b&.dnm=9f3d.jpg&.src=ph
Jymmm: I've been playing with the mill this afternoon
Jacky^ Foreign what?
Jymmm: it runs smoothly there's nothing more about it..
Jymmm: there's a plate from four country ..
have you seen ??
anonimasu_ so, you got the usc card working correctly?
anonimasu_ what did you have to do?
Jymmm: nothing really... just tweak my speeds
oh, set the accel/decel to sensible limits..
err acceleration.. and velocity
so, what kinda of speeds are you getting now that you couldn't get before?
not any yet..
I get 2m/min easily without tweaking the PID loops.
I wish I knew what PID does/is.
following error correction...
is that like missed/gained steps?
yeah that too..
Jacky^: that's feedforward..
ok, I'm still confused. I'm trying to setup my machien now, and reading the handbook, but I still not getting everything yet.
so, I'm not being a smartass to you anonimasu_, just trying to understand all the little aspects of it all.
dont worry about it
there's no step-by-step to it
no, but you dont have to worry about your PID settings..
I know I need to make some adjustments so 1" == 1" travel
is the number of steps per unit
ok, so now I know where to put 16000
ask away if there's more :)
when I use generic or sherline it's gawd slow
are thsoe two differetn field?
ok, so accel is the speed at which it goes from 0 to 60mph?
and velocity is the 60mph
accel is you acceleration and deceleration limit
and what is default velocity? when jogging, or normal operation?
and deafult is the speed it will accelerate on on normal non rapid moves
define 'rapid' ?
g0 == rapid?
ok, didnt know tha.t
what would max jogging speed be?
g1 = normal move
manually of course.
well, the max_velocity is how fast you can jog.
max_vel is the ulimate maxiumum speed I'll ever got no matter what?
I cant remember where the default does apply I keep it about 65% of my max..
ok, good to know.
I should write these down, but I'll just go thru my irc loggs and maybe make a wiki entry.
* Jymmm hates ambiguity
usually to get a machine running it's a matter of tweaking input_scale.. and then setting up max_velocity, max_accel & defaults..
APT programming is unambiguious
that makes the machine usable
and now whats involved??
max_accel I'm not sure about. I know for a LARGE machine you would need it, but paul said that even my lil machien needs it too.
Jymmm: it's the MAX acceleration
whats your max table load??
Jymmm: for rapid moves/moves that require more accel to get up to speed
if you have a short move for example g1 x20 f200
Jymmm: if you make the accel numbers small, you will be able to hear the motors ramp up to speed
anonimasu_: Right, but with the belt removed I can turn the leadscrew with my pinky. Doesn't sem like a lot or any accel at all is needed.
you will have to accelerate faster then the default to get up to speed..
LawrenceG When I jogged with the sherline, I do hear/see it accel up/down
then you can turn them to larger numbers to make the moves snappier... at some point you will exceed the motors capability and if steppers, they will stall... if servos, they will probably fault on following error
it always keeps going past the point I let go of the button.
it SHOULD all come from a max table load variable somewhere... then its a matter of setup factor between the mass and the G force available from the drive
Jymmm: too low acceleration..
tell it its lighter...
Jymmm: your acceleartion/deceleration is set way too low, if that occurs..
anonimasu_ yeah, that I get. But what I dont get it is if there's some calculation to start a baseline and go from there or if it's just hit-n-miss.
Jymmm: it's units^2s or something
I dont want to prematurely wear out my motors of course.
depends on the proir modal g code
dmess this is just jogging.
you can graph your ferror and see if you can crank out pulses, and what ferror you are getting...
with most new motion systems, you start will everything slow and gentle (low velocity and low accels)
Jymmm: following error...
Jymmm: hit/n miss works nicely
LawrenceG what you think this is a virgin bride or soemthing?! =)
anonimasu_ ok, fair enough
slow is good to avoid Accel farts..
I set it up until the machine works smoothly.. but will snap a bit if i do rapid moves..
snap being jump/skip steps?
then you can sneak up the velocities to find out top speed before it faults
and inhaling a computer chair thru your ass
snap as in going from 0 to 1500mm/min in 1 sec
machine hops across the rrom
LawrenceG that I understand =)
like the walking washing machine =)
or the nuckle buster wrench
Jymmm: you can set your accel as high until you start missing steps..
open up the in position window??
I dont know about motor wear..
anonimasu_ ok cool. any other fields I need to be aware of in that respect?
well set them at a comfortable level..
anonimasu_ btw, was it you that sent me the link for TkEMC on M$ ?
I hate waiting for accel/decels.. so I keep them high..
and well, I am speedfreak ;D
ok, musta been alex then.
anonimasu_ we all are.
is there a field for while in accel/decel position dont matter??
dmess: no, you have ferror and min_ferror
Jymmm: blame alex_joni
ok but who /what monitort them???
paul_c heh, thats ok =)
ferror and the limits... are to do what with??
dmess: what do you mean?
23:52 < dmess> ok but who /what monitort them???
23:51 < dmess> is there a field for while in accel/decel position dont matter??
* anonimasu_ is very confused
sorry anon... what does ferror do??
it sets up the maximum allowed ferror..
err following error
ok too many new words these days..
well during accel / decel ferror needs to be at a min.. but in order to do it it needs feed to drop
no, if you have to drop your feed to keep your desired accel.. your motors/inertia matching are wrong and you are working outside of your machine limits
dmess: that's what the pid loop is supposed to keep under control..
If I dont have any encoders (just steppers), I dont need to even need to look at PID, do i?
well pid is used internally..
but I've never touched it when I ran my machine with paralell port steppers
ok, so I'll forget all about PID, at least for now =)
for steppers, set P=100 or so and I,D,FF* to 0
Celeron 366 w/ 256MB ram.... any stating suggestions for PERIOD ?
ANAON.. THX.. PID INFO.. all the more reason opening position window might help
as far as I am aware of there's no such setting.
to stop the jerk & stutter
really... in position tolerance?? ... where i am versus where i should be... to close the loop
that's what the pid loop does.
so open up the zone to let it move..
and the fact that the goverment?
whoops wrong place
governments only half the facts.. dont have a clue what to do with em..
Jymmm: For a 366 Celery, try 0.000025
* anonimasu_ goes away
paul_c: will do. how did you come up with that value btw?
would that make you a emc slut?
0.000022 on a 433MHz is bearable...
oh, it's that clue to each other huh?
0.000030 is about right on a P133
so 0.000025 would be middlin' for 366MHz
wow, tight tolerance. what if I'm not running X, same value?
if you're not running X, you might get away with 0.000020
ok. at least I have a starting range to play with.
_AchiestDragon is now known as AchiestDragon
* Jacky^ umpf..