#emc | Logs for 2005-07-27

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[00:30:51] <dpy> should a CNC mill always return to its origin when turned on ?
[00:31:10] <dpy> the point where all microswitches are pressed
[00:45:48] <Jacky^> it depend on setting home and limit switches on .ini file
[00:58:10] <Jacky^> night
[06:40:04] <Alpha1125> dang, where's AJ?
[06:41:33] <Alpha1125> Alpha1125 is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[06:50:05] <Jymmm> left 8 hrs ago
[06:50:26] <Jymmm> he quit, then you quit 3 minutes later.
[07:34:26] <anonimasu> morning
[07:34:34] <A-L-P-H-A> hey
[07:45:10] <anonimasu> how's things going?
[07:49:10] <A-L-P-H-A> good
[07:49:15] <A-L-P-H-A> just practicing some guitar
[07:49:20] <A-L-P-H-A> and now going to lay down, and watch tv.
[07:50:57] <anonimasu> nice :)
[07:51:05] <anonimasu> I am getting ready to go to work
[08:58:31] <alex_joni> morning guys
[09:44:39] <Jacky^> morning
[09:51:27] <Jacky^> ok
[09:51:37] <Jacky^> ops..
[09:51:39] <Jacky^> :)
[09:53:38] <alex_joni> it's not ok ;)
[09:53:59] <Jacky^> wrong window..
[09:54:05] <alex_joni> heh .. I figured ;)
[09:54:13] <Jacky^> :)
[10:24:06] <Jacky^> NASA Declares Discovery a 'Clean' Launch
[10:24:26] <Jacky^> they just losted some part.. :\
[10:25:46] <Jacky^> bah..
[12:05:50] <alex_joni> yo ValarQ
[12:49:31] <anonimasu_> hello
[12:50:06] <Jacky^> hi anonimasu_ :)
[12:50:20] <anonimasu_> how are things going?
[12:50:26] <anonimasu_> I just got back from a customer at work
[12:51:07] <Jacky^> i'm watching tv, looking for some app to record video on a file..
[12:51:11] <anonimasu_> nice :)
[12:51:48] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ has some machining for a customer at work to do also
[12:52:25] <Jacky^> ar tou free in the afternoon, or come back to work ?
[12:52:25] <anonimasu_> work nerver ends :)
[12:52:46] <anonimasu_> oh, I am back at work now
[12:53:02] <Jacky^> ah..
[12:53:04] <anonimasu_> work from 7-16:00..
[12:53:11] <Jacky^> yeah..
[12:53:29] <Jacky^> after 16 work at home ? :P
[12:53:29] <anonimasu_> but I usually get to work ~9 in the morning
[12:53:37] <Jacky^> good
[12:53:42] <anonimasu_> after 16 I do more work for work at home
[12:53:50] <Jacky^> :)
[12:54:03] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ found it really fun to machine on the toolchanger
[12:54:38] <anonimasu_> I am going to bore the tube of the lock plate tonight :)
[12:54:49] <Jacky^> yeah, it should be very funny :D
[12:55:17] <anonimasu_> I dont have stuff to make the motor mount yet. need sealings and some spline axle..
[12:55:23] <Jacky^> I will wait .. :))
[12:55:33] <anonimasu_> I dont care much for that part..
[12:55:40] <anonimasu_> it's the locking I am interested in..
[12:55:41] <Jacky^> mmm
[12:56:08] <Jacky^> it's so difficult to find ?
[12:56:17] <anonimasu_> nah..
[12:56:31] <anonimasu_> I can mill the axle.. but I cant make the internal splines of the piston
[12:57:03] <anonimasu_> 150kg(spring) + 175kg(pneumatic) should be enough to lock the tool in place
[12:57:21] <Jacky^> wow.. i suppose so
[12:57:29] <Jacky^> 150 kg
[12:57:39] <anonimasu_> 175kg that's with 8bar of pressure
[12:57:40] <anonimasu_> :)
[12:57:45] <Jacky^> wow
[12:57:56] <Jacky^> should be strong
[12:58:08] <anonimasu_> yeah should be plenty to keep the tool locked..
[12:58:25] <Jacky^> :)
[12:58:28] <anonimasu_> that's in the <- -> direction
[12:58:33] <anonimasu_> err ->
[12:58:48] <anonimasu_> to keep the plate on the lock pins
[12:59:01] <anonimasu_> the design is very simple
[12:59:02] <anonimasu_> :)
[12:59:20] <Jacky^> good luck ;)
[12:59:24] <anonimasu_> I wish I could make it in alu instead becasue then it'd take 5 hours to machine it all..
[12:59:39] <Jacky^> yeah, is better
[12:59:50] <anonimasu_> but iron is way better for rigidity..
[13:00:11] <anonimasu_> so I guess making the housing out of a 10x10x10cm cube of iron is good..
[13:00:14] <Jacky^> not for weight i suppose..
[13:00:25] <anonimasu_> oh, I have a heavy enough lathe ;)
[13:00:39] <Jacky^> nice
[13:00:49] <anonimasu_> the lock pins need to be very strong
[13:01:00] <anonimasu_> or well whatever they mount to
[13:01:09] <anonimasu_> since that's there the force will go
[13:01:37] <Jacky^> I can image ..
[13:01:57] <anonimasu_> http://www.homanndesigns.com/ToolChangerProject.html
[13:01:59] <anonimasu_> ;)
[13:02:44] <Jacky^> nice
[13:03:04] <anonimasu_> not mine though :/
[13:03:21] <Jacky^> I want it !
[13:03:23] <Jacky^> :D
[13:06:22] <anonimasu_> :)
[13:07:06] <anonimasu_> *looking for a image similiar to he's desigfn
[13:07:07] <anonimasu_> gn
[13:07:26] <Jacky^> I will search too
[13:07:52] <anonimasu_> I think mazak has it at their lathes
[13:08:41] <Jacky^> let see
[13:15:51] <anonimasu_> re
[13:16:31] <alex_joni> wb
[13:17:48] <anonimasu_> Jacky^: http://www.centroidcnc.com/images/lathe-turret.jpg
[13:18:22] <Jacky^> :)
[13:18:35] <Jacky^> you googled better than me ..
[13:24:45] <anonimasu_> http://www.doriantool.com/Turrets/acc_s3.pdf
[13:25:34] <alex_joni> http://www.combitech.com.tw/forceone/turret.htm
[13:25:38] <Jacky^> ah.. brochure, nice :P
[13:26:02] <alex_joni> http://www.umaine.edu/amc/images/machines/Okuma_ESL8_24.jpg
[13:26:26] <anonimasu_> I have a better idea then what I have now that wouldnt require the splined shaft.. but well, having the splined shaft reducdes machining work later on
[13:26:49] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: now I just to make it possible to have 8 driven tools ;)
[13:26:54] <alex_joni> http://www.homestead.com/tool20895/files/mini_lathe_tool_turret.jpg
[13:27:38] <Jacky^> alex_joni: , really nice
[13:27:50] <alex_joni> http://www.goldensun.com.tw/product-new/Products.htm
[13:27:50] <Jacky^> is yours machine ?
[13:27:56] <alex_joni> Jacky^: not really ;)
[13:27:58] <alex_joni> google's
[13:28:20] <anonimasu_> yep :)
[13:28:31] <alex_joni> the last ones are nice
[13:28:36] <alex_joni> imho
[13:28:43] <anonimasu_> the okuma one looks like mine will
[13:29:33] <alex_joni> http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/TL1.jpg
[13:30:20] <anonimasu_> revolver lathe :)
[13:30:46] <Jacky^> cool
[13:30:53] <anonimasu_> the next challenge is to make the turrent index.. fast.
[13:31:43] <anonimasu_> <- speedfreak
[14:18:22] <RonB> OK folks - I have downloaded EMC "BDI-Live_rc46.iso" from http://www.isw.uni-stuttgart.de/personen/t_franit/modell/e_emc.html - there was no md5sum I could find - I cannot get past the first page on the auto-install script - wizz-turd will not work properly
[14:22:16] <Jacky^> RonB: i think paul_c can help you
[14:26:06] <RonB> would that be Paul in UK on the BDI page?
[14:27:35] <Jacky^> yeah
[14:28:17] <RonB> thanks - I shall crank that computer up and accuraty describe the problem in an e-mail
[14:28:42] <Jacky^> you can also find here later..
[14:28:50] <Jacky^> try..
[14:28:53] <RonB> does he come on the IRC channel often and/or at a particular time?
[14:29:04] <anonimasu_> no
[14:29:14] <anonimasu_> he usually comes aroung somtimes
[14:29:15] <anonimasu_> :SD
[14:29:30] <anonimasu_> you should come bac in like 4-6 hours
[14:29:32] <RonB> gee .... thanks ... maybe
[14:29:34] <anonimasu_> and check :)
[14:29:57] <RonB> will do - and an honest thank you
[14:32:27] <cradek> RonB: do you have enough RAM for Live?
[14:32:39] <RonB> 512MB
[14:32:51] <cradek> http://sherline.com/emc/
[14:32:53] <cradek> md5sums here
[14:33:10] <cradek> ok, looks like it requires >= 256
[14:35:14] <RonB> thanks cradek - bad checksum
[14:37:13] <RonB> time to go to the public library and download another copy -- on the 6th bad download
[14:37:28] <anonimasu_> use a client that supports resuming
[14:37:29] <anonimasu_> :D
[14:37:37] <anonimasu_> download manager/getright/something
[14:37:39] <RonB> I do - fierfox
[14:37:45] <RonB> firefox
[14:40:57] <RonB> appears to be windbloze only
[14:42:39] <cradek> RonB: are you md5summing the .iso file or /dev/cdrom?
[14:46:30] <RonB> iso
[14:46:38] <cradek> ok
[14:47:02] <cradek> (I understand md5summing the cd after burning rarely works, especially with ide cd-rom)
[14:47:37] <RonB> I always assumed one md5 sumed before burning
[14:47:52] <cradek> yeah, that's right, just checking
[14:48:14] <RonB> and - this is the first tiem I have had THIS much trouble downloading a file
[14:51:22] <RonB> sure like the apt-get function on debian
[14:52:08] <cradek> the bigger the file, the more often TCP messes it up
[14:52:25] <cradek> you might try another mirror (maybe sherline)
[14:52:55] <RonB> will try sherline tonight -
[14:53:12] <RonB> did realize sherline had the live version
[14:53:16] <alex_joni> RonB: you might also try http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/
[14:53:19] <RonB> did not
[14:53:30] <RonB> thanks alex_joni
[14:53:36] <alex_joni> np
[14:53:39] <RonB> adn cradek
[14:53:43] <cradek> welcome
[14:53:44] <cradek> good luck
[14:54:34] <RonB> just downloaded prozGUI
[15:01:18] <alex_joni> prozGUI ? what's that?
[15:01:40] <RonB> download manager
[15:01:48] <alex_joni> right
[15:11:39] <dpy> anyone here ever tried making a homebrew desktop-size injection moulding machine ?
[15:11:53] <dpy> and then create the molds with a CNC mill
[15:32:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home
[15:32:56] <alex_joni> bye guys
[15:47:19] <anonimasu> I've got my refund now
[15:47:27] <anonimasu> from pico systems
[15:47:33] <anonimasu> dpy: that could be done
[15:59:15] <Jymmm> Mornin Folks!
[16:00:49] <anonimasu> morning jymm
[16:02:11] <Jymmm> Gotta do some servo price shopping today, any suggestions where to start?
[16:02:34] <anonimasu> www.galilmc.com
[16:03:04] <Jymmm> have you bought from them before?
[16:03:13] <anonimasu> heh
[16:03:14] <anonimasu> galil?
[16:03:16] <anonimasu> yes
[16:03:20] <anonimasu> servos :)
[16:03:33] <anonimasu> although not directly from them..
[16:03:42] <anonimasu> next time I'll be importing the motors from US..
[16:03:46] <anonimasu> they cost 2x over here..
[16:04:06] <Jymmm> ah
[16:04:09] <anonimasu> going servo?
[16:04:26] <Jymmm> depending on complete cost
[16:04:48] <anonimasu> about $325~-400~per servo
[16:05:00] <anonimasu> but it depends a bit on how much torque you need brushless/brushed..
[16:05:23] <anonimasu> if you are going servo buy drives from john elson or ebay some relabeled galil ones :)
[16:06:26] <anonimasu> err jon..
[16:06:28] <anonimasu> that is..
[16:06:56] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[16:06:59] <Jymmm> did you get you USC board from him already?
[16:07:03] <anonimasu> not yet
[16:07:08] <anonimasu> maybe next monday
[16:07:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu craves for some servos he's retailer off work sells..
[16:07:59] <anonimasu> JVL with integrated drives..
[16:08:05] <anonimasu> they have some 220v drives
[16:08:09] <anonimasu> 4nm ;) 2700rpm
[16:08:20] <Jymmm> $20/ea
[16:08:20] <anonimasu> with integral pid and stuff..
[16:08:28] <anonimasu> the jvl ones?
[16:08:31] <anonimasu> LOL
[16:08:41] <anonimasu> more like $2.5k
[16:09:11] <anonimasu> horrid isnt it?
[16:09:48] <Jymmm> yep, maybe I will stick with steppers - can't find shit on ebay (would like three matched ones)
[16:10:10] <anonimasu> matched servos?
[16:10:21] <Jymmm> same brand/modelNum
[16:10:24] <anonimasu> not big deal really..
[16:10:35] <anonimasu> but atleast for the x,y it's nice to have the same :)
[16:10:51] <anonimasu> the axis:es that goes fast is where you want/need servos
[16:11:38] <Jymmm> I want 10000IPM on Z axis with a 5" travel
[16:11:50] <Jymmm> and resolution to 0.0000000001"
[16:12:29] <anonimasu> just hook your steppers to mains..
[16:12:58] <Jymmm> well, I guess I never did say I wanted to do it more than once
[16:17:01] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7533327028&category=78195&rd=1
[16:19:37] <Jacky^> hi Jymmm :)
[16:19:52] <Jymmm> hola Jacky^
[16:19:56] <Jacky^> playng on ebay ?
[16:20:07] <anonimasu> Jymmm: tiny ones
[16:20:14] <Jymmm> looking for servo motors
[16:20:15] <anonimasu> you want more then 24v
[16:20:51] <anonimasu> and thoose are without encoders I think
[16:21:47] <Jymmm> ROTF --> 'It's so easy' http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7532151735&category=71394&rd=1
[16:22:09] <anonimasu> more your size ;)
[16:23:41] <anonimasu> heh
[16:23:49] <anonimasu> mach2 as controller software
[16:23:50] <anonimasu> yay
[16:25:50] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7532931620&category=78195&rd=1
[16:26:13] <anonimasu> MINE!
[16:26:24] <Jymmm> ?
[16:26:28] <anonimasu> I need thoose :D
[16:26:38] <anonimasu> but they wont ship them to me
[16:26:41] <Jymmm> thye dont ship outside the US
[16:27:59] <anonimasu> yep..
[16:29:24] <anonimasu> * anonimasu hates that it's that way at most ebay auctions
[16:29:49] <anonimasu> it's like $25 shipping for them.. and $350 when it arrives here
[16:33:45] <Jymmm> really?
[16:33:51] <anonimasu> yeah..
[16:33:55] <Jymmm> is that shipping or duty tax?
[16:34:02] <anonimasu> shipping + some tax
[16:34:26] <Jymmm> can't you cross the border to some place it's cheaper?
[16:34:39] <anonimasu> it depends though
[16:34:42] <anonimasu> how it gets shipped..
[16:35:57] <Jymmm> anonimasu : Tell ya what... I'll take my 33% (as in one motor), and ship the rest to you. He has 3 auctions goin
[16:36:41] <Jymmm> Actually.... it MIGHT be cheaper that way.
[16:36:45] <anonimasu> probably
[16:37:32] <anonimasu> not right now though
[16:37:39] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7533487703&category=78191&rd=1
[16:37:40] <anonimasu> I am a bit short on cash :)
[16:37:54] <anonimasu> short as in no more money on the mill until next payday ;)
[16:40:50] <Jymmm> Somehow I didn't realize that geckos needed a heatsink
[16:41:56] <anonimasu> oh, ofcourse they do :
[16:41:57] <anonimasu> :)
[16:42:20] <Jymmm> bah, geckdrive.com is still down
[16:43:03] <anonimasu> geckodrive.com
[16:43:26] <anonimasu> hm..
[16:43:30] <anonimasu> had to try it
[16:43:51] <Jymmm> typo in irc, but still down
[16:51:34] <les> did sme arc blending tests
[16:51:41] <Jymmm> les you ol dawg you!
[16:51:52] <les> woof.
[16:52:20] <les> grr emc list is not mailing out anything
[16:52:39] <les> are you home cradek?
[16:53:39] <les> anyway...if you see this later...
[16:53:56] <les> Here's the skinny on arc blending
[16:54:01] <cradek> yep
[16:54:32] <anonimasu> how did it work ?
[16:54:38] <cradek> I think he's typing
[16:54:48] <cradek> * cradek makes faces at les
[16:54:48] <les> g64 DOES do something other than g61 on arcs and lines
[16:55:01] <les> heh
[16:55:04] <les> but...
[16:55:22] <les> I would call it a "misblend"
[16:55:30] <les> did a bunch of tests
[16:56:21] <les> If you are running at low speed and moderate accel you cannot see it.
[16:56:40] <anonimasu> hm, would a tight circle show the problem with arc blending?
[16:56:52] <anonimasu> I tried to machine a circle and the machine staggered between the arcs..
[16:56:57] <cradek> so you think it does some kind of blend but it's wrong?
[16:56:58] <les> That's because the blip is out of the control loop bandwidth
[16:57:16] <les> now as you increase speed it gets more dramatic
[16:57:42] <les> the threshold of seeing it on my machine was about 30 ipm
[16:57:53] <les> below that...undetectable.
[16:57:56] <anonimasu> did it while I was doing g2 x0 y0 i0 j5 f1500
[16:58:03] <cradek> send me some servos that will let me do >30 ipm then
[16:58:08] <les> above...it gets worse and worse.
[16:58:19] <les> at 200 ipm it is horrible
[16:58:31] <anonimasu> 59ip..
[16:58:35] <anonimasu> ipm..
[16:58:42] <anonimasu> it does show up then
[16:58:45] <anonimasu> brb, I have dinner
[16:58:45] <les> square of the speed thing I think.
[16:58:48] <les> k
[16:58:51] <anonimasu> I'll be back to discuss a bit more
[16:58:54] <cradek> les: what is your max accel? If I reduce mine a lot, do you think I would see the problem?
[16:59:39] <les> so it is the same old misblending that tp/tc always does even on connected straight lines.
[16:59:54] <les> just an arc manifestation of it.
[16:59:58] <cradek> huh
[17:00:30] <les> chris I am not sure...because it is a misblend, not an exact stop
[17:00:44] <les> exact stop acts differently
[17:01:24] <les> for example
[17:02:21] <les> G01X1 G01X2 G01X3 will hiccup with each block
[17:02:35] <les> even in G64
[17:02:38] <cradek> yeah I understand exact stop
[17:02:41] <les> it always did that
[17:02:44] <cradek> oh really
[17:02:47] <les> yes
[17:02:48] <cradek> that's terrible
[17:03:03] <les> Fred Noticed it
[17:03:24] <les> I tell you, tp/tc is garbage!
[17:03:59] <Jacky^> anyone has tried this: http://earth.google.com/ ?
[17:04:13] <les> yes jacky it's cool
[17:04:37] <Jacky^> :D
[17:04:47] <Jacky^> i'm going to try it
[17:05:43] <Jacky^> ms seem working for a concurrent product
[17:06:02] <Jymmm> Servo : 296 oz-in, 6k RPM, 200v, $900 YEOW!
[17:06:19] <cradek> windows only?? nobody still uses windows, do they?
[17:06:25] <les> heh
[17:06:48] <Jacky^> ouch
[17:07:00] <Jacky^> i will try on a virtual machine :P
[17:07:29] <Jacky^> but are working on other ver..
[17:07:39] <Jacky^> they said ..
[17:10:58] <Jymmm> Is this strictyl EMC? like is it seen in Mach or TurboCNC?
[17:12:05] <anonimasu> iab
[17:13:04] <anonimasu> I've seen some hsm machines do a loop on sharp corners
[17:13:08] <anonimasu> O
[17:13:12] <anonimasu> when changing direction..
[17:13:20] <anonimasu> for for outer corners..
[17:13:33] <anonimasu> or well, not hsm, but well higher speed
[17:13:50] <anonimasu> http://www.emuge.com/news_events/featured/carbide_end_mills/cutting_action.html
[17:14:21] <Jacky^> wooow cool :P but i've no directx non emulated machine :\
[17:14:33] <anonimasu> the hpc video
[17:15:24] <anonimasu> http://www.emuge.com/video/hpc.wmv
[17:17:51] <Jacky^> a friend of mine has developed a software like earth.google many years ago..
[17:18:16] <Jacky^> http://web.tiscali.it/fspaghetti/ look at english ver.
[17:18:19] <Jacky^> :D
[17:19:31] <anonimasu> I wonder that kind of spindle that machine has
[17:19:34] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[17:19:42] <anonimasu> stuff I'll never be able to do
[17:20:08] <anonimasu> they are milling 59RC stuff at it..
[17:20:22] <Jacky^> anonimasu: :)
[17:20:24] <anonimasu> http://www.emuge.com/video/hartbearbeitung1.wmv
[17:21:40] <anonimasu> * anonimasu gets jealous of that movie
[17:22:06] <anonimasu> when they start cutting the cone
[17:23:09] <Jymmm> poor anonimasu
[17:23:31] <anonimasu> Jymmm: seen it?
[17:23:34] <Jymmm> women are jealous of other women, anonimasu is jealous of a machine! lol
[17:23:47] <Jymmm> yeah, just finished.
[17:23:51] <anonimasu> Jymmm:
[17:23:54] <anonimasu> ;)
[17:23:57] <anonimasu> what do you think=?
[17:24:18] <anonimasu> I wouldnt dare to cut in that stuff on my machine
[17:24:35] <Jymmm> if that's 59RC.... Yeah baby! yeah!
[17:24:55] <anonimasu> Jymmm: easy cut ;)
[17:25:01] <Jymmm> But, can it mill EPS?!
[17:25:05] <anonimasu> eps?
[17:25:18] <anonimasu> if you can export it yes..
[17:25:24] <anonimasu> I wouldnt mill eps with a mill like that
[17:25:27] <Jymmm> EPS == Expanded Poly Styrene == styrafoam
[17:25:43] <anonimasu> heh
[17:25:59] <anonimasu> you could mill it out of titanium if you would like..
[17:26:29] <anonimasu> http://www.emuge.com/video/cbn.wmv <- arc blending in action
[17:26:41] <les> ok did a final post on the user list about arc blending
[17:27:07] <anonimasu> Jymmm: some guys look at car's..
[17:28:01] <anonimasu> les: can you give me a copy
[17:28:11] <anonimasu> I dont get the usre list just the dev list
[17:28:24] <anonimasu> if it's not too much work
[17:29:05] <les> heh I do the turkey call about that speed...but they're wood
[17:29:16] <les> sending file in a sec
[17:29:26] <anonimasu> ok
[17:29:26] <anonimasu> thanks
[17:29:35] <anonimasu> I better stop looking this will get expensive
[17:29:49] <anonimasu> http://www.emuge.com/video/kurvenscheibe.wmv
[17:29:51] <anonimasu> more titanium
[17:30:23] <anonimasu> les: thanks
[17:30:49] <anonimasu> les: neat :)
[17:30:58] <Jymmm> Hate to sound dumb... in that video which is the 'arc blend'...the initial spiral, or the taper?
[17:31:19] <anonimasu> well both..
[17:31:20] <anonimasu> :D
[17:31:38] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[17:32:25] <les> sent
[17:32:31] <anonimasu> * anonimasu stops looking at theese damn movies
[17:32:49] <anonimasu> les: thanks :)
[17:33:30] <Jymmm> * Jymmm watches anonimasu pull out ALL the credit cards... ok I can put this much on A, and this much on B....
[17:33:43] <anonimasu> lol, I dont have any credit.
[17:34:21] <Jymmm> Silly Q, what IPM are these videos you think?
[17:34:32] <anonimasu> HEH
[17:34:48] <les> hard to tell
[17:35:01] <anonimasu> the hpc one is 433 ipm
[17:35:14] <Jymmm> fuck me...
[17:35:17] <Jymmm> lol
[17:35:27] <les> I think I could do that kind of stuff on aluminum perhaps....if I had 25 hp on the spindle
[17:35:35] <anonimasu> heh
[17:35:37] <les> the machine is stiff enough
[17:35:51] <anonimasu> I wonder if I could do it with a new column and several KW.
[17:36:08] <Jymmm> "I could do that no problem on a $100 HF Mini-mill"
[17:36:10] <anonimasu> with the huydralic pump there should be no problem going to several 100kw on the spindle.. :D
[17:36:17] <anonimasu> but well, it's throw the table away.
[17:36:41] <anonimasu> Jymmm: have you seen the water spindle?
[17:36:45] <anonimasu> what was it called..
[17:36:52] <anonimasu> the hydrostatic on
[17:36:53] <anonimasu> e
[17:37:13] <Jymmm> hpc ?
[17:37:20] <anonimasu> no
[17:37:26] <anonimasu> the one nist developed
[17:37:29] <anonimasu> or no..
[17:37:49] <anonimasu> that guy les's machine design is derived from
[17:37:55] <anonimasu> turbotool
[17:37:57] <anonimasu> http://pergatory.mit.edu/perg/awards/TURBOTOO.html
[17:39:28] <anonimasu> les: do you have any idea where the arc blending does happen?
[17:39:29] <les> I do use Slocums methods with most all machine design
[17:39:36] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[17:39:43] <anonimasu> what line in the tp
[17:39:55] <les> He, like me is an Illinois Tool Works consultant.
[17:40:20] <anonimasu> cool
[17:40:37] <anonimasu> * anonimasu cant remember what file in emc2 the tp resides
[17:41:18] <les> anders it seems a blend is hapening always. But it is a wrong blend. A velocity profile would show a quick v like blip in the downward direction.
[17:41:25] <les> it gets worse with speed.
[17:41:29] <anonimasu> yeah
[17:41:54] <Jymmm> 'Speed Kills' any crack dealer can tell you that!
[17:42:03] <les> It finally gets bad enough to be a complete stop
[17:42:13] <Jymmm> at what speed?
[17:42:15] <les> but it is not at low speed
[17:42:22] <anonimasu> hm, 1000mm/min is slow..
[17:42:27] <les> it depends on tuning jymmm
[17:42:31] <Jymmm> k
[17:42:48] <anonimasu> I dont even have feedback to the machine but it happens with the internal PID loop for the steppers..
[17:42:55] <les> it is a math error
[17:43:02] <anonimasu> yeah
[17:43:18] <Jymmm> is it FPU or algo ?
[17:43:23] <anonimasu> algo..
[17:43:31] <anonimasu> most ikely
[17:45:11] <anonimasu> *looking for it now*
[17:45:18] <anonimasu> les: could you explain how the blending should work?
[17:45:19] <les> heh
[17:45:19] <anonimasu> in math
[17:45:25] <les> good luck
[17:45:27] <Jymmm> you think someone did 'linear' when they shouldn't have in the algo?
[17:45:39] <les> Fred saw this in lines years ago here.
[17:45:46] <anonimasu> I am trying to find where the arc blending is..
[17:46:03] <les> tc.c mostly
[17:46:17] <les> some in tp
[17:46:42] <anonimasu> ah
[17:46:43] <anonimasu> kinematics..
[17:47:02] <les> but remember...it is not exclusive to arcs....connected straight moves do it too
[17:47:09] <anonimasu> yeah
[17:47:13] <anonimasu> large trouble.
[17:47:29] <anonimasu> actually the tp isnt that large..
[17:47:32] <les> tp/tc always was.
[17:47:39] <anonimasu> tp.c that is..
[17:47:44] <les> achilles heel of emc.
[17:47:54] <Jymmm> all the developers need to do a vulcan mind meld with les' brain
[17:47:58] <anonimasu> maybe it would be a good way to start to document it.
[17:48:15] <les> I can't find it
[17:48:16] <anonimasu> each person involved documents one function.. or something like that
[17:48:26] <anonimasu> les: tp.c?
[17:48:35] <les> no the error
[17:49:14] <les> tp/tc is a discriminate based algo
[17:49:35] <anonimasu> maybe we should start commenting out blending and trying it..
[17:49:45] <anonimasu> and re-enable stuff until we can find where it happens..
[17:49:57] <les> well I did that today just by MDI G61
[17:50:07] <anonimasu> les: yeah but in the file..
[17:50:14] <les> oh
[17:50:37] <anonimasu> /*
[17:50:38] <anonimasu> tpSetTermCond(tp, cond) sets the termination condition for all subsequent
[17:50:38] <anonimasu> queued moves. If cond is TC_TERM_STOP, motion comes to a stop before
[17:50:38] <anonimasu> a subsequent move begins. If cond is TC_TERM_BLEND, the following move
[17:50:38] <anonimasu> is begun when the current move decelerates.
[17:50:38] <anonimasu> */
[17:50:58] <les> well just that it is not an exact stop vs blending thing
[17:51:04] <les> it is a misblend
[17:51:15] <anonimasu> yep
[17:51:26] <les> it becomes an exact stop + dwell at some speed
[17:52:01] <les> the "v" blip in the velocity profile finally gets a flat bottom at some point
[17:52:09] <les> so stop+ dwell
[17:52:31] <anonimasu> hm, /* If either this move or the last move was a pure rotation reset the
[17:52:32] <anonimasu> velocity and acceleration and block any blending */
[17:52:46] <les> I posted that
[17:53:09] <les> that is foe a,b,c rotation axes I think...not circular moves
[17:53:14] <anonimasu> ah, ok
[17:53:16] <anonimasu> yeah I thought so..
[17:53:24] <anonimasu> since arcs must be blended if you make a circle with them
[17:53:51] <anonimasu> hm, pen & paper
[17:54:01] <anonimasu> les: what function is the entry function for the tp?
[17:54:17] <anonimasu> what function does get called first that starts processing the queue
[17:54:50] <Jymmm> couldn't you have some gcode and a trace program going on so you can narrow down where in the code it is?
[17:55:00] <les> something in emctask or emcmot I think...not sure
[17:55:09] <anonimasu> yeah, but what gets called.. :/
[17:55:24] <les> don't know
[17:55:27] <les> chris might
[17:55:29] <anonimasu> I am going to write all this stuff down how the queue gets processed step by step..
[17:55:41] <les> good
[17:55:44] <Jymmm> anonimasu: couldn't you have some gcode and a trace program going on so you can narrow down where in the code it is?
[17:55:52] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is tired of not understanding
[17:56:07] <les> jymm not so easy I think
[17:56:33] <Jymmm> les : Why not? No actual machine needs to be connected.
[17:56:56] <anonimasu> Jymmm: it's a entire algorithm..
[17:57:08] <anonimasu> Jymmm: understanding the tp is more important for fixing it..
[17:57:22] <Jymmm> anonimasu would you bet $100 that the sole casue is the algo?
[17:57:24] <les> Well some might be able to...just not me...Paul says traces prturm a RTOS too much usually
[17:57:51] <anonimasu> I wonder if you could throw all segments to a file..
[17:57:53] <les> perturb
[17:57:56] <anonimasu> files with the calc steps..
[17:58:25] <anonimasu> wouldnt the calc error be fairly easy to spot, if you could print what happens during a line -> arc blend
[17:58:32] <Jymmm> les : I understand that, but what I'm saying is the CASUE of the problem hasn't been narrowed down and confiremd.
[17:58:38] <anonimasu> Jymmm: almost
[17:59:01] <Jymmm> Just like anything... the CASUE is the hardest thing to find, the fix is much easier.
[17:59:15] <anonimasu> cradek: are you there?
[17:59:34] <les> Well if someone can, great. I am lost in the emc code jumble. I just cannot follow it.
[17:59:47] <anonimasu> that's why I am resorting to pen & paper..
[18:00:08] <anonimasu> going to write down what calls what.. and then write down what it does..
[18:00:18] <Jymmm> les that why I was suggesting a trace program,
[18:00:23] <anonimasu> les: you will get math questions if you dont mind explaining
[18:00:36] <les> I think cradek has a pretty good understanding...he fixed that helical math error
[18:00:58] <les> math of trap blending is easy...np
[18:01:23] <anonimasu> great..
[18:01:27] <anonimasu> but much of the other math also..
[18:01:45] <anonimasu> I hate this crap, no one seems to understand it..
[18:01:51] <les> yeah.
[18:02:07] <anonimasu> it's "just" 840 lines.
[18:02:46] <anonimasu> and with lots of stuff checks.. that's nothing to bother about..
[18:04:25] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7534109355&category=104242&rd=1
[18:04:28] <anonimasu> or well, stuff that does not add complexity
[18:05:17] <anonimasu> but well until cradek comes back I'll wait with starting got some machining for work to do
[18:05:54] <anonimasu> going to bore the hole in the toolchanger also
[18:06:07] <Jymmm> les : che ck out that link and tell me what you think?
[18:06:46] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is so servo clueless!
[18:06:53] <anonimasu> tiny stuff
[18:07:12] <anonimasu> but better then the other ones
[18:07:48] <anonimasu> the ones without encoders ;)
[18:15:02] <Jymmm> I emailed him asking what IPM he gets.
[18:16:27] <anonimasu> 50 ipm
[18:16:29] <anonimasu> in all axes..
[18:16:45] <Jymmm> where did you see that?
[18:17:33] <Jymmm> sherline has 20TPI screws, MY machine has 5TPI ballscrews and gears
[18:18:00] <anonimasu> you will get more speed from it then..
[18:18:04] <anonimasu> but that depends on your gearing
[18:18:22] <Jymmm> is 2:1 'ok' ?
[18:18:39] <anonimasu> no idea really..
[18:18:48] <anonimasu> you should have asked about what speed the motors are
[18:18:56] <anonimasu> how many rpm/s
[18:19:11] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is so servo clueless!
[18:19:21] <anonimasu> yeah but that
[18:19:32] <anonimasu> that's what matters for your speed.. you can cals it after you know what rpm you can run them at..
[18:23:42] <Jymmm> oh, NOW he tells me!
[18:37:55] <anonimasu> OMFG what thunder
[18:41:52] <Jymmm> it aint the thunder you have to worry about!
[18:48:42] <les> jymm, sorry cooking lunch. your ebay link is this:
[18:48:51] <les> http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=74
[18:58:44] <cradek> les: I think I saw this guy's stuff at NAMES
[18:59:13] <cradek> les: I remember not being too impressed - I think the jog speed was still really slow
[19:00:02] <alex_joni> hello
[19:00:18] <cradek> hi
[19:00:40] <alex_joni> what's up chris?
[19:00:52] <alex_joni> talked to les about that blending stuff?
[19:01:25] <cradek> yeah, he says he thinks it's blending but it still sucks
[19:01:37] <alex_joni> oh :(
[19:01:45] <cradek> I don't understand all the details but it starts getting bad at 30IPM
[19:02:33] <alex_joni> I see
[19:04:12] <Jymmm> les ty, cradek nice to know =)
[19:04:46] <alex_joni> hmm.. that should be possible to fix I think
[19:04:53] <alex_joni> but paul's planning on changing the TP
[19:04:56] <Jymmm> hi Alex
[19:05:57] <alex_joni> hey Jymmm
[19:07:07] <Jymmm> Hmmm... I think I need to start looking at various bits... v cutting, ball, etc
[19:07:12] <les> sorry eating....yeah that's Fred Smith's stuff
[19:07:23] <alex_joni> oh, hello les
[19:07:28] <alex_joni> how's the golf course ;)
[19:07:38] <Jymmm> les quit getting sloppy joe mix in the keyboard!
[19:07:50] <les> I am working on it!
[19:08:11] <robin_sz> meep?
[19:08:21] <les> cutting and plowing away the old weeds
[19:08:28] <les> seed in september.
[19:08:33] <les> hi robin
[19:08:40] <robin_sz> cutting and plowing?
[19:08:52] <robin_sz> prevert .. whats wrong with the traditional methods?
[19:08:59] <les> my two hole golf course.
[19:09:04] <robin_sz> weedkiller and explosives
[19:09:10] <les> ha
[19:09:14] <Jymmm> * Jymmm offers to retrive Les' golfballs from the pond at the cost of $0.75/ball.... I'l make MILLIONS!!!!
[19:09:48] <les> actually I was gonna use chemicals...but they are expensive...and might kill trees.
[19:10:00] <les> so...
[19:10:04] <alex_joni> oh.. and you need trees to stay on course
[19:10:06] <alex_joni> ;)
[19:10:06] <robin_sz> cutting works pretty well
[19:10:09] <les> plow...
[19:10:22] <les> wait a week...new weed seeds come up...
[19:10:25] <robin_sz> yep
[19:10:27] <les> plow again...
[19:10:29] <les> etc
[19:10:44] <robin_sz> probably better off with a chain harrow
[19:11:04] <robin_sz> ploughing goes deep and brings up too many seeds
[19:11:14] <les> will borrow one or use old piece of fence at september seeding time
[19:11:33] <les> I am just disk plowing...not too deep
[19:11:39] <robin_sz> ah right
[19:11:47] <les> harrowing really
[19:11:52] <Jymmm> disk plowing still goes fairly deep
[19:12:01] <robin_sz> disc harrow we know them as
[19:12:02] <les> I can control it
[19:12:14] <Jymmm> now, 12' of chain link fence behind the tractor.....
[19:12:25] <les> yeah.
[19:12:32] <robin_sz> good for breaking in manure too
[19:12:49] <Jymmm> les (I grew up on 7.5 acres of walnut trees)
[19:13:13] <les> I have some
[19:13:21] <les> mostly oak and poplar.
[19:13:43] <robin_sz> my wife suprised me last night ..
[19:13:50] <robin_sz> gave me a card, just before midnight
[19:13:55] <Jymmm> Heh, I remember one time as a kid, they were watering the orchard and I got stuck 18" in the mud!
[19:14:10] <robin_sz> it said "happy anniversary" ...
[19:14:19] <Jymmm> Don't remember if I ever got my show bak or not.
[19:14:23] <Jymmm> shoe
[19:14:25] <robin_sz> I think she wanted me to have rememvbered first though
[19:14:32] <les> I guess!
[19:14:47] <Jymmm> robin_sz: Better make it good!
[19:15:08] <Jymmm> a dozen roses aint gonna cut it
[19:15:40] <robin_sz> well, I aint remembered one yet ... so its a long tradition
[19:15:58] <Jymmm> robin_sz That card was the hint.
[19:16:27] <robin_sz> well, it was only given 5 minutes before the day was over, hardly time to do anything about it
[19:16:37] <Jymmm> robin_sz : Just go make reservations somewhere, then a carriage ride (or somethign) afterwords.
[19:16:56] <les> I can't remember either of the TWO i had
[19:16:56] <robin_sz> yeah right
[19:17:08] <robin_sz> this was 19 ... i better not forget next year
[19:17:52] <alex_joni> robin_sz: set up an reminder ;)
[19:18:06] <les> Women will not put up with me 19 days let alone 19 years
[19:18:08] <robin_sz> I'll try to remember to do that
[19:18:09] <alex_joni> crm should handle that (lol)
[19:18:29] <robin_sz> alex, hey good idea ;)
[19:19:03] <robin_sz> and if I miss it .. I can always flag it for followup a week or two later ...
[19:19:07] <Jymmm> setup a cron job on your laser to to cut out a reminder!
[19:19:25] <robin_sz> we were cuttin 8mm today
[19:19:31] <robin_sz> and bending it in the press
[19:19:58] <Jymmm> Bet you'll remember when right in the middle of a job it starts cutting out 'Anniversary in 72 hours'
[19:20:31] <robin_sz> bending 8mm plate was a bitch ... as I had no bottom tooling for 8mm
[19:20:54] <robin_sz> needed a 50mm V block, or bigger
[19:21:10] <robin_sz> so ... I made one :)
[19:21:58] <robin_sz> lasered out a dozen V's in 10mm plate ... stacked em in a line and welded down the side of em
[19:23:02] <robin_sz> linished up the critical bits and it worked just fine ...
[19:23:28] <robin_sz> bending pressure was only 12t for a 120mm bit of plate
[19:28:58] <les> well I am gonna go out and power down the cnc....I think we have "problem explained" on this arc blend thing at least
[19:29:07] <les> not problem solved though.
[19:29:53] <les> then back to playing with this piezo film. I mave to machine some stuff for it.
[19:29:59] <les> have
[19:30:39] <les> later
[20:04:10] <anonimasu> hello
[20:04:23] <alex_joni> hey anon
[20:04:29] <Jymmm> howdy
[20:04:33] <anonimasu> I just killed a endmill
[20:04:47] <anonimasu> I was milling at 800mm/min at pretty high rpm..
[20:04:49] <anonimasu> in some iron..
[20:05:02] <anonimasu> then the damn gearbox changed itself out of gear and I didnt notice..
[20:05:03] <anonimasu> :D
[20:05:04] <Jymmm> anonimasu didn't we tell you to stop trying to mill the grinder wheel while it's running?
[20:05:06] <RonB> congratulations
[20:05:08] <anonimasu> yeah..
[20:05:11] <anonimasu> it was cutting nicely
[20:05:17] <anonimasu> and then there was sparks..
[20:05:18] <anonimasu> ;)
[20:05:36] <RonB> could have been a sand pit if it was cast
[20:05:56] <anonimasu> solid iron..
[20:06:14] <RonB> or a piece of included carbide - someone's old diamond
[20:06:21] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:06:44] <anonimasu> I'd rather do that then scrap my only large endmill because of a stupid gearbox..
[20:06:49] <anonimasu> I was going to mill the stuff down 1cm..
[20:06:53] <anonimasu> err part..
[20:07:18] <anonimasu> alex_joni: have you looked anything at the tp
[20:07:18] <anonimasu> ?
[20:07:21] <RonB> parts take on new idenities whe they start eating tools
[20:07:28] <alex_joni> anonimasu: not really
[20:07:31] <anonimasu> this part used to be a toolchanger.
[20:07:32] <anonimasu> :D
[20:07:36] <anonimasu> or well soon to be
[20:07:36] <alex_joni> currently I am cursing MPPE
[20:07:43] <alex_joni> and sarge for not including it
[20:08:05] <anonimasu> alex_joni: ok, I am trying to find somone to tell me where the TP gets called..
[20:08:12] <anonimasu> and what does get called..
[20:09:38] <alex_joni> it's pretty simple
[20:09:45] <alex_joni> you got basicly 2 functions
[20:09:53] <alex_joni> tpAddLine and tpAddCircle
[20:10:01] <alex_joni> that get called out of the motion controller
[20:10:12] <alex_joni> so the motion controller gets the commands through SHM
[20:10:21] <alex_joni> then calls those 2 TP functions
[20:10:29] <alex_joni> and TP is supposed to add that to the trajectory
[20:10:49] <anonimasu> ok
[20:11:05] <alex_joni> that's a very not "indepth" view
[20:11:12] <anonimasu> heh
[20:11:28] <anonimasu> I am starting to write down the TP..
[20:19:00] <Jacky^> evening
[20:19:53] <alex_joni> ehlo
[20:20:04] <Jacky^> hi alex
[20:22:12] <anonimasu> wb jacky
[20:31:21] <Jymmm> Is there a colored epoxy I could use to fill in aluminum/brass after engraving?
[20:36:02] <dpy> does anyone here know if there exist some movies of a running "Brute" *CNC mill) by John C. Kleinbauer ?
[20:47:50] <robin_sz> Jymmm: nmost people us hard wax
[20:48:35] <robin_sz> you goiung to try and engrave on that router?
[20:48:36] <Jymmm> robin_sz wouldn't that fall out eventually?
[20:49:01] <Jymmm> robin_sz : That's what I bought it for.
[20:49:06] <Jymmm> to engrave
[20:49:08] <robin_sz> engraving?
[20:49:14] <robin_sz> you're kidding right?
[20:49:23] <Jymmm> nope, why would I be?
[20:49:42] <Jymmm> we are not talking small stuff here
[20:49:43] <RonB> lots of epoxies will work for that - many coloring agents
[20:49:43] <robin_sz> mmmm, I wouldnt hold out much hope of engraving with it
[20:50:09] <Jymmm> RonB I've only seen the stuff from home depot
[20:50:35] <Jymmm> robin_sz : Getting THK style rails and have thomson ballscrews on it.
[20:50:47] <robin_sz> Jymmm: it unlilely you'll be succesful engraving on that router
[20:50:48] <RonB> there are a lot of "boatbuilding" epoxies I have used
[20:51:00] <RonB> a few hundred gallos or so
[20:51:12] <Jymmm> RonB Ah, ok. never thought about the marine stuff.
[20:51:16] <robin_sz> heigth control is critical
[20:51:32] <RonB> can be dyed with a lot of substances if you know the properties
[20:51:40] <robin_sz> well, as I said, the engraving trade use hard waxes
[20:51:42] <Jymmm> RonB which I dont =)
[20:51:55] <Jymmm> 'hard' wax?
[20:52:03] <RonB> fabric dyes in proper alcohol will do it
[20:52:19] <robin_sz> Jymmm: sold in all the engraving catalogues
[20:52:26] <Jymmm> RonB by proper alcohol, you mena like denatured alcohol?
[20:52:32] <RonB> too many "tricks" to try and relate over IRC -
[20:52:55] <RonB> denatured should work - always try a small sample first
[20:53:09] <RonB> some don't like a certain alcohol or thinning
[20:53:19] <Jymmm> RonB Always do =) Just dont need a 55gal drum of epoxy though
[20:53:24] <RonB> otehr epoxies don't care
[20:54:01] <robin_sz> Jymmm: you have a floating nose cone engraving head?
[20:54:04] <Jymmm> I'm just not what "binds" to aluminum well.
[20:54:08] <RonB> woodworkers suppliers ahev a bunch -
[20:54:09] <Jymmm> robin_sz nope
[20:54:19] <robin_sz> which one you planning to get?
[20:54:29] <RonB> "WoodCraft" carries System# epoxy
[20:54:43] <RonB> System3
[20:54:51] <Jymmm> robin_sz none at the moment. Like I said, I'm not talking small stuff like a lighter or plaque.
[20:54:59] <Jymmm> RonB good stuff?
[20:55:10] <RonB> good as most -
[20:55:13] <Jymmm> or expensive stuff
[20:55:33] <RonB> have worked well for me - my favorite when working wood with hand tools
[20:55:43] <robin_sz> Jymmm: exactly, you might get away with a Z axis router on small stuff, but big stuff will nedd floating nose cone for certain
[20:55:58] <RonB> quart size $35 or so? IIRC
[20:56:14] <Jymmm> should last a long time
[20:56:25] <RonB> robin_sz - I'll say bull manure on that
[20:56:27] <Jymmm> till I kick the can over accidently of course.
[20:56:42] <RonB> depends on too many factors
[20:56:52] <robin_sz> RonB: have you actually done any large engraving?
[20:57:13] <RonB> good material and good hold-down you can engrave almost anything
[20:57:27] <RonB> and a few hundred feet of large engraving
[20:57:53] <robin_sz> well, my experience is that variations of 0.5mm in depth make it look like shite
[20:57:57] <RonB> few materials are consistant enough
[20:58:05] <RonB> and yes you are right
[20:58:17] <robin_sz> personally I could never hold that over much more than 12" sqaure
[20:58:25] <RonB> but - the floating nose cone is not CERTAIN
[20:58:35] <robin_sz> which is why ALL the commercial machines use a floating nose cone head
[20:58:53] <RonB> yes - and I shall drop it there -
[20:59:58] <robin_sz> as you like
[21:00:12] <RonB> but - having process engraving without a cone head over larger than 12 FOOT material - I know it can be done
[21:00:28] <anonimasu> if the material is dead flat..
[21:00:30] <anonimasu> ;)
[21:00:33] <robin_sz> possibly .. on a hi spec machine
[21:00:40] <Jymmm> I only want the epoxy/enamel to contrast anything done in metal, more of a squeegy in, wipe off the excess.
[21:00:41] <anonimasu> keeping 0.01 is not a problem on a good machine..
[21:00:51] <RonB> mill the material on the machine you are going to engrave it on
[21:00:57] <anonimasu> or with my crappy machine.
[21:01:04] <anonimasu> yeah, that works
[21:01:05] <RonB> Same hold-down -
[21:01:07] <robin_sz> but Jymms is bottom dollar and flexible .. its going to suffer real bad
[21:01:23] <RonB> never touch material between milling and engraving
[21:01:24] <Jymmm> robin_sz: Lend me your credit card.
[21:01:45] <Jymmm> robin_sz I'm already into this for $3500USD
[21:02:07] <robin_sz> Jymmm: there are some things that you can work with succesfully though
[21:02:24] <robin_sz> without a floating nose cone
[21:02:31] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sells a drawing for a floating nose cone head $200
[21:02:40] <anonimasu> *grins*
[21:02:52] <Jymmm> $200 pesos... sold!
[21:03:16] <robin_sz> theres a polythene foam laminate, either 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2" thick
[21:03:27] <robin_sz> diferent color in the centre to back and front
[21:03:40] <anonimasu> nice stuff
[21:03:43] <robin_sz> routs easy and is almost vandal proof
[21:03:54] <Jymmm> polythelene?
[21:03:56] <robin_sz> VERY popular on golf courses etc
[21:04:02] <anonimasu> int turn; /* turns for circle */
[21:04:19] <Jymmm> robin_sz url?
[21:04:24] <anonimasu> alex_joni: is that how many segments the circle should be divided in?
[21:04:33] <Jymmm> robin_sz I've only seen the PVC stuff.
[21:04:39] <robin_sz> I forget the names, there one or two brands, its in all the signmaking mags
[21:05:02] <robin_sz> and corian works OK too
[21:05:05] <RonB> http://tinyurl.com/96y3f
[21:05:17] <RonB> color core
[21:05:19] <Jymmm> corian is too fucking expensive
[21:05:22] <anonimasu> heh
[21:05:28] <Jymmm> and dealer only sales
[21:05:35] <robin_sz> Jymmm: your business sense astounds me
[21:05:38] <RonB> not harbor sales
[21:06:29] <Jymmm> robin_sz: $12/sq ft to run in a 24" x 24" machine that is a DEALER ONLY sales product, I dont' think so.
[21:07:08] <robin_sz> Jymmm: you can get it from almost any singmaking supplier
[21:07:10] <Jymmm> robin_sz The other stuff you mentioned sound much better.
[21:07:13] <anonimasu> buy it off local shops
[21:07:25] <robin_sz> and anyway ... you missed the point.
[21:07:36] <robin_sz> what do you care if it is $12 a sq foot
[21:07:53] <robin_sz> your CUSTOMERS are paying for it
[21:08:19] <robin_sz> or would you prefer to engrave in dog turds? ... its always better to work in quality materials
[21:08:58] <RonB> * RonB gee robin_sz - you are so DIP - lomatic
[21:09:51] <les> back for a sec
[21:10:03] <les> dog turds...cool!
[21:10:10] <anonimasu> les: high speed routing them ;)
[21:10:12] <Jymmm> WE all know.... shit happens. If a bit broke in the middle of a run or have to do rework the cost of the raw material could knock out any profit. IF I find a market SPECIFICALLY for Corian, that might be another story.
[21:10:13] <robin_sz> why do you think I prefer to work in stainless and weird high tensile steels?
[21:10:20] <cradek> you have to let them dry first, I suppose
[21:10:21] <robin_sz> because I charge my customers more
[21:10:27] <les> bet you could find someone to buy em!!!
[21:10:44] <robin_sz> much more profitabel than hacking through HR4 plate
[21:10:45] <anonimasu> les: got a clue what emcmotCommand->turns is
[21:10:47] <anonimasu> ;)
[21:11:00] <RonB> stainless takes a while to dry
[21:11:06] <cradek> anonimasu: /* turns for circle */
[21:11:13] <anonimasu> cradek: yeah, but what turns?
[21:11:31] <anonimasu> cradek: is it if you have 2 circles in the same spot?
[21:11:41] <anonimasu> that are the same, or is it if you want to do something else
[21:11:55] <les> with a machine like jymms wood, delrin, acrylic (ouch) will be the rule
[21:11:59] <cradek> I had to figure that all out when I fixed the helix bug
[21:12:05] <cradek> let me look for a minute to refresh my memory
[21:12:09] <anonimasu> thanks :)
[21:12:23] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is trying to understand as much as possible of the tp
[21:12:29] <les> I never heard of turnsis
[21:13:17] <Jymmm> les dont forget my machien can do Nickel too =)
[21:13:44] <cradek> anonimasu: see circutil.c about line 66
[21:13:54] <les> oh a urethane foam
[21:13:58] <les> forgot that
[21:14:06] <les> one of the most important ones
[21:14:09] <anonimasu> what's that in emc2?
[21:14:12] <cradek> anonimasu: I think it turn might be just -1 or 1 in this case, representing the direction
[21:14:30] <cradek> anonimasu: no idea, sorry
[21:14:35] <anonimasu> ok :)
[21:14:46] <anonimasu> yeah that's probably what it is..
[21:14:51] <cradek> see pmCircleInit() wherever it is
[21:15:00] <anonimasu> since there's nothing else to denote which direction it's going in
[21:15:10] <cradek> there's support for multiple turns per circle, but I doubt the interpreter can ever give that
[21:15:19] <cradek> so it's probably direction
[21:16:28] <anonimasu> dont worry about it :)
[21:16:39] <les> I just answered a list question about ferror and feedforward
[21:16:59] <les> feeforward gets interesting in voltage and velocity mode
[21:17:09] <alex_joni> cradek: close enough
[21:17:12] <alex_joni> but no tquite
[21:17:14] <alex_joni> not quite
[21:17:18] <cradek> alex_joni: ?
[21:17:18] <alex_joni> it does give the direction
[21:17:23] <alex_joni> but also the number of turns
[21:17:32] <alex_joni> look at _posemath.c
[21:17:39] <cradek> right, but can the interpreter ever do more than one turn? I don't think so
[21:17:45] <alex_joni> pmCircleInit
[21:17:54] <cradek> I know, look above :-)
[21:17:57] <Jymmm> RonB you said NOT HArborSales?
[21:18:16] <alex_joni> right.. ok, was busy reading code ;)
[21:18:18] <alex_joni> sorry
[21:18:20] <cradek> np
[21:18:33] <RonB> said harboe sales will probably seel even to you
[21:19:10] <Jymmm> RonB why did you say that?
[21:19:49] <RonB> just being mean I guess .... no - I have purchased as an individual from them
[21:20:08] <alex_joni> anonimasu: any more questions?
[21:20:16] <Jymmm> RonB I have a resale number =)
[21:20:28] <RonB> they might even accept that
[21:20:34] <cradek> for a pleasant change, let's all try to be nice for a little while
[21:20:48] <alex_joni> cradek: now that's a challenge
[21:20:48] <Jymmm> cradek "BITE ME!" =)
[21:21:04] <cradek> alex_joni: for some, it might be
[21:21:27] <anonimasu> :)
[21:21:39] <alex_joni> cradek: seems like it
[21:23:40] <les> Anders, Alex, I'm sure you have figured out all the tp code now. Will you please tell me how it works?
[21:23:59] <les> haha
[21:24:01] <alex_joni> les: it's just placebo code
[21:24:06] <alex_joni> from what I see
[21:24:07] <alex_joni> ;)
[21:24:16] <alex_joni> funky little wrappers around nop's
[21:24:29] <anonimasu> asm("nop");
[21:24:29] <les> might as well be for me
[21:27:02] <Jymmm> RonB robin_sz thanks for hte ColorCore info
[21:27:09] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[21:27:19] <robin_sz> Jymmm: can I ask you a question
[21:27:21] <anonimasu> I think I'll call it a day
[21:27:26] <Jymmm> G'Night anonimasu
[21:27:43] <Jymmm> robin_sz : Is the question loaded?
[21:28:02] <robin_sz> no .
[21:28:23] <Jymmm> * Jymmm reluctantly says.... 'um, sure'
[21:28:24] <robin_sz> you are planning on making money from the engraving and signmaking business yes?
[21:28:46] <Jymmm> robin_sz I think that's been estabilshed over the last few months, yes.
[21:29:03] <robin_sz> have you been so one of the big signmaking trade shows yet?
[21:29:17] <RonB> have you purchased a signmakers price book yet Jymmm
[21:29:36] <Jymmm> robin_sz : EOM in Long Beach, CA
[21:29:49] <Jymmm> RonB no
[21:30:15] <RonB> better get one
[21:30:45] <Jymmm> RonB Never even heard of such for signmaking.
[21:30:46] <robin_sz> Jymmm: and you didnt come away with all these smaples of cute materials, books of supplies and a bazillion trade leaflets on a million and one engraving substrates?
[21:31:24] <Jymmm> robin_sz : Going to try and hit the show at the eond of this month
[21:31:34] <robin_sz> so not been yet?
[21:32:06] <Jymmm> robin_sz Not specifically this industry, more the printing/vinyl side of it.
[21:32:49] <robin_sz> well, if I can offer one bit of advice
[21:33:15] <robin_sz> don't spend cash until youve been and seen the pitch the game is being played on
[21:33:30] <les> might find this helpful too:
[21:33:33] <les> http://www.signweb.com/
[21:33:55] <Jymmm> robin_sz : I'm a hard sell, but appreciate the advice
[21:35:13] <robin_sz> I think when you see the sort of quality people are getting, and what customers expect from modern engraving, you'll see why a homebrewed router aint going to get you out there in with the real players
[21:35:52] <Jymmm> Oh fuck me... It's THIS weekend (sigh)... http://www.nbmshows.com/05-lb-welcome.html
[21:36:54] <les> I say best bet is small house signs with generator power at craft shows
[21:38:00] <anonimasu> les: why so?
[21:38:04] <cradek> I've always thought that doing custom jewelry/badges/signs at the mall or a craft show would be successful
[21:38:10] <Jymmm> this stuff is VERY cool --> http://www.flexolite.net/lightsheet.htm
[21:38:16] <cradek> people would certainly pay to watch the machine do something
[21:38:39] <les> dollar's worth of cedar....unfinished or oil on the spot...< 5 minitue carve
[21:38:58] <cradek> yep
[21:39:01] <les> pre cut the blanks
[21:39:14] <les> v carve just street and numbers
[21:39:25] <Jymmm> cradek : In front of one of the WallMarts here there was a trailer setup todo carving 'The Johnsons'. I thought I'd take a look (camera in hand) to see what he was offering... not there anymore.
[21:39:43] <cradek> Jymmm: portable is an interesting idea
[21:39:44] <les> cad/cam time just minute or a few (just type in the TTF and go)
[21:40:13] <Jymmm> cradek HF offers a SMALL foldable trailer, I could hitch on the back.
[21:40:59] <les> Robin is right...not going to be a living...but i'll bet you could make a chunk of change
[21:41:01] <les> or
[21:41:29] <les> build up solar powered led edge lit (light pipe)
[21:41:45] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90154
[21:41:45] <les> where ever you carve it will light up
[21:42:16] <anonimasu> I've seen that kind of signs..
[21:42:17] <anonimasu> very cool
[21:42:18] <anonimasu> :)
[21:42:30] <les> cheap too
[21:43:58] <Jymmm> edge lit acrylic?
[21:44:02] <les> i'll bet the wood ones would sell well at craft fairs for about 25 to 30 dollars
[21:44:07] <les> yeah
[21:44:18] <Jymmm> or light pipe?
[21:44:28] <Jymmm> acrylic rod
[21:44:41] <les> no sheet
[21:44:52] <les> single strength window glazing
[21:45:29] <Jymmm> and mount the sheet over the v-carved sign
[21:45:38] <les> no...
[21:46:06] <les> it is total internal reflecting where clear...so it does not light up
[21:46:08] <Jymmm> or do you mean carve INTO the acrylic
[21:46:21] <Jymmm> then edge lite it
[21:46:35] <les> where you carve is rough and leaks out the light
[21:46:54] <Jymmm> Right, This I've done when I was looking at laser engravers
[21:47:25] <les> but 911 signs in cheap wood at shows is better I think
[21:47:26] <Jymmm> Even got a CCD lamp to play around with
[21:47:34] <Jymmm> CCFL
[21:47:55] <alex_joni> yay
[21:47:59] <alex_joni> got it working ;)
[21:48:25] <alex_joni> MPPE & PPTPD
[21:48:55] <Jymmm> les : Even found a cheap source for bulk solar garden lights to retrofit for the electronics, battery and solar panel.
[21:49:35] <les> right there you go
[21:50:37] <les> I have done a good bit of that stuff
[21:50:48] <Jymmm> les : Still need to figure out the packaging while not having it blow out after the first rainstorm
[21:51:07] <les> I even have some patents on that type of thing
[21:51:09] <Jymmm> Wehn I tried with LED's , the light wasn't consistant.
[21:51:22] <les> it can be.
[21:51:25] <alex_joni> Jymmm: try those nice 5W LED's
[21:51:31] <alex_joni> and PWM them ;)
[21:51:45] <les> bright!
[21:51:55] <Jymmm> alex_joni : It was the light didn't travel well thru the material
[21:52:12] <Jymmm> CCFL now, THAT's another story
[21:52:13] <les> I figured 20 mW would be enough....just to keep the solar cell size down
[21:52:36] <les> The eye is so non linear
[21:53:03] <Jymmm> les whent he light hits the carving, notihing for it to bend aroudn to the other side, so you have to light both sides.
[21:53:08] <les> for example on a sunny day solar flux is about 1000 watts/m^2
[21:53:28] <les> on a rainy day it is about 20 W/m^2
[21:53:40] <les> but it is still plenty light outside
[21:54:33] <les> light only needs to hit an edge.
[21:54:42] <Jymmm> I even considered EL wire, but not bright enough.
[21:55:05] <anonimasu> el wire is usually milled inside it's own channels..
[21:55:07] <anonimasu> to write stuff
[21:55:29] <Jymmm> If I use about 1 LED per 2" of length, it's ok.
[21:55:45] <les> too high voltage...inverter costs money.
[21:55:53] <Jymmm> standard everyday red LED, difused.
[21:56:05] <Jymmm> les Yeah $8
[21:56:13] <les> too much
[21:56:20] <Jymmm> and too noisey too
[21:56:39] <Jymmm> I bought both to try CCFL and EL wire
[21:57:23] <les> I used to screen print EL consumer products before it got to be a commodity
[21:58:08] <Jymmm> les : I'd LOVE for this stuff to fall off the truck in a back alley somewhere http://www.flexolite.net/lightsheet.htm
[21:59:04] <anonimasu> order a piece :)
[21:59:18] <robin_sz> * robin_sz eventually secures some rf connectors
[21:59:24] <robin_sz> w00t!
[21:59:48] <robin_sz> that took a few weeks of searching ...
[21:59:51] <les> rf? for what?
[22:00:05] <robin_sz> the spare laser of course, silly ;)
[22:00:13] <les> heh
[22:00:23] <les> qswitch?
[22:00:30] <robin_sz> nah
[22:00:41] <robin_sz> big RF excited anulalr wavegude
[22:00:52] <les> ah ok
[22:01:00] <Jymmm> anonimasu the invertor is huge!
[22:01:04] <les> 13.57 MHz or whatever?
[22:01:09] <robin_sz> was missing 3 patch cables from the exciter to the head
[22:01:12] <robin_sz> 40mhz
[22:01:23] <robin_sz> @25kw :)
[22:01:40] <les> I think 13.57 is resrved here for that...but don't remember
[22:01:44] <anonimasu> hm, I wonder how much that stuff would cost..
[22:01:52] <anonimasu> if you were to put it in your ceiling
[22:01:54] <anonimasu> as worklight
[22:02:04] <robin_sz> well, take 3 x 13.57 and .. you get?
[22:02:21] <anonimasu> I've got about 100m2..
[22:02:23] <anonimasu> no :D
[22:02:41] <anonimasu> but I bet it'd give a nice light
[22:03:25] <robin_sz> the 40.xx spot freq is the 3rd harminoc of the 13.xx one ..
[22:03:31] <les> right
[22:03:56] <robin_sz> les: thnakfully, the 3rd harnonic of 40.5xx is in a totally unused part of the spectrum
[22:04:30] <les> yes thnakfully.
[22:04:48] <alex_joni> lol
[22:04:48] <les> haha
[22:05:22] <robin_sz> it is kinda worrying .. I did check to make sure it hadnt drifted low
[22:06:02] <les> radiate 25 kW on the wrong frequency and it could get some attention
[22:06:34] <robin_sz> now, you know I would not connect it to a 1/4wave whip ...
[22:07:00] <alex_joni> nice stuff :)
[22:07:06] <les> what is output impedance?
[22:07:09] <alex_joni> I'm on 2 VPN's right now :P
[22:07:13] <robin_sz> 50r
[22:07:25] <les> ok
[22:07:31] <robin_sz> valve amp too, so loads of matching potential
[22:08:16] <les> gosh, I have forgotten the impedance of a quarter wave end fed dipole
[22:08:22] <robin_sz> did you know .. a 1/4w coper whip will emit a big purple plasma from the end and burn away at about the 15kw mark?
[22:08:24] <les> or whip
[22:08:31] <robin_sz> apparently
[22:08:35] <les> wow
[22:08:56] <anonimasu> cool
[22:11:57] <Jymmm> anonimasu : a sample kit 4" x 8" and invertor was $150
[22:12:06] <robin_sz> les: http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/upload/DCP_1153.JPG
[22:12:07] <les> The heck with lasers. I would take that rig, retune it for fm broadcast, set up on abandoned North sea oil rig, and spew forth bizzare political views and constant 60's rock music 24 hrs a day.
[22:12:17] <robin_sz> yeah
[22:12:27] <robin_sz> its a Henry commercial TC
[22:12:28] <robin_sz> TX
[22:12:59] <Jymmm> les and the callsign would be KWOW
[22:13:09] <anonimasu> :D
[22:13:14] <anonimasu> nice!
[22:13:48] <Jymmm> anonimasu : And, from the backside (if mounted on glass) is clear...
[22:13:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is still wondering why milling iron is painful
[22:14:08] <Jymmm> anonimasu : So you could put it on windows and still see outside.
[22:14:12] <robin_sz> Jymmm: you're going to mount your backside on glass?
[22:14:30] <les> Because Graphite is as hard as diamond in some planes?
[22:14:59] <anonimasu> eh?
[22:15:08] <les> it is
[22:15:16] <anonimasu> yeah but graphite isnt iron
[22:15:17] <anonimasu> :D
[22:15:31] <alex_joni> but it is in there :)
[22:15:42] <anonimasu> heh
[22:15:42] <alex_joni> bits at least
[22:15:51] <robin_sz> iron is neat
[22:15:53] <robin_sz> but ///
[22:15:57] <anonimasu> and somehow I got 95% graphite there.
[22:16:00] <robin_sz> iron dust is a bastard
[22:16:08] <anonimasu> iron is hell to mill.
[22:16:13] <les> ha...but cast iron was eutectic iron carbon and the carbon precipitated out!
[22:16:32] <anonimasu> even worse then alu :D
[22:16:36] <robin_sz> it mills and turns beatuifully in my experience
[22:16:43] <robin_sz> but screws your machine
[22:16:51] <anonimasu> it cut best at 800mm/min and 2700rpm
[22:17:00] <les> I never have a problem with it...but use carbide.
[22:17:02] <robin_sz> rigidity is crucial with iron
[22:17:13] <anonimasu> bleh, I am shit out of luck then.
[22:17:35] <robin_sz> one word of advice
[22:17:47] <robin_sz> wipe your mill down, then do it again
[22:17:53] <anonimasu> wi´┐Że?
[22:17:56] <anonimasu> wipe?
[22:18:01] <robin_sz> clean
[22:18:13] <robin_sz> iron dust is abrasive
[22:18:24] <robin_sz> and worst .. it susts onto surfaces and fscks em
[22:18:28] <robin_sz> rusts
[22:19:14] <anonimasu> heh, taking it down into molecules after I've milled 1 hour of iron..
[22:19:19] <anonimasu> no way.
[22:19:42] <anonimasu> I can find funnier stuff to do :)
[22:19:54] <anonimasu> I am not making dust..
[22:20:21] <anonimasu> the reason for the high rpm is to avoid resonance...
[22:20:30] <robin_sz> whatever .. clean up after you finish, its worht the effort with iron
[22:20:42] <robin_sz> I found out the hard way :(
[22:20:58] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:21:00] <les> folks, it's after work, so I am gonna go play on my new tractor toy a little.
[22:21:04] <anonimasu> :D
[22:21:11] <robin_sz> tractor addict"
[22:21:20] <les> yeah.
[22:21:23] <robin_sz> ok, I'm going to play with my wife
[22:21:34] <robin_sz> wanna take bets on who has most fun?
[22:21:40] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands les his straw hat and overalls
[22:21:42] <les> um...
[22:22:00] <robin_sz> night guys ;)
[22:22:03] <alex_joni> nothing like taking the wife for a tractor ride
[22:22:07] <Jymmm> G'Night rob
[22:22:26] <Jymmm> wouldn't that be hay ride?
[22:22:43] <alex_joni> you need to cut it first
[22:23:02] <Jymmm> nope, just find someplace where it's already done
[22:23:32] <les> I have nothing to cut. just a bunch of logs to carry
[22:23:47] <Jymmm> les no robotic arm on it yet?
[22:24:04] <Jymmm> les think 'Aliens'
[22:24:19] <les> well joystick on the loader...
[22:24:37] <les> I still have the urge to flip over cars
[22:24:45] <les> not mine of course
[22:24:51] <Jymmm> les the movie Aliens, where she's in the machine and it responds to her body movements
[22:25:19] <les> exoskeleton
[22:25:25] <Jymmm> yeah, thats it
[22:26:10] <les> heh
[22:26:14] <les> well later
[22:26:19] <Jymmm> hasta
[22:26:31] <Jymmm> * Jymmm looks for v carving bits
[22:33:39] <alex_joni> n8 guys
[22:54:06] <Jymmm> Phydbleep !
[23:30:40] <les> back from tractorfun. too hot out there. had to get back into ac.
[23:33:01] <Jymmm> LMAO
[23:34:20] <les> heh I checked the radar . cold front is on the way.
[23:34:32] <Jymmm> there ya go
[23:34:54] <Jymmm> then you can just grab a bottle of brandy to warm up while on the tractor
[23:35:30] <les> With dew points in the 80's any physical exertiuon at all and I overheat. Sweat does not evaporate and cool at all.
[23:36:03] <Jymmm> Yeah, it's 50% humidity here, but only in the lo eighties today
[23:36:26] <Jymmm> ah, only 78
[23:38:43] <Jymmm> I love these reusable wire ties!
[23:58:09] <Jacky^> mmmhh...