#emc | Logs for 2005-07-25

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[00:05:16] <anonimasu> robin_sz: how are things going?
[00:22:38] <robin_sz> anonimasu: gotta reboot to try vm again
[00:58:01] <robin_sz> anonimasu: still here?
[01:02:21] <robin_sz> anonimasu: anyway, yeah .. worked a treat .. easy with the "export sketch entities" ticked ...
[01:15:40] <Jymmm> I'm Back! Who missed me?
[01:17:52] <robin_sz> I did ...
[01:18:08] <robin_sz> about 3 clicks to the left and a little low
[01:18:41] <Jymmm> See... I KNEW you cheated on that last competition of yours!
[01:18:52] <Jymmm> grassy knoll
[01:21:20] <robin_sz> right .... bedtime
[08:01:45] <anonimasu> hello
[08:01:58] <Jymmm> G'Night
[08:02:12] <Jymmm> (nutton personal anonimasu)
[08:02:22] <Jymmm> =)
[08:02:32] <Jymmm> have a good one
[08:28:36] <A-L-P-H-A> that was so much fun.
[08:29:46] <anonimasu> hey :)
[08:29:49] <anonimasu> what was?
[08:31:53] <A-L-P-H-A> friend's car problems.
[08:32:15] <anonimasu> heh ok
[08:33:47] <A-L-P-H-A> well... only benefit I see out of this... is two things.
[08:34:05] <anonimasu> hm I wonder if this stupid little language will allow me to do struct1:= struct2;
[08:34:19] <A-L-P-H-A> the girl I'm macking (working on to get a date) and I, were able to have a nice chat. And my friends parents like me even more for helping out and stuff.
[08:34:36] <anonimasu> hehe ;)
[08:34:39] <A-L-P-H-A> if it's a class, it should have inheritance. that is if it
[08:34:46] <A-L-P-H-A> is OOP
[08:34:54] <A-L-P-H-A> if not... no. But for variables sure.
[08:35:06] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: you are talking about the wrong universe
[08:35:09] <anonimasu> :D
[08:35:25] <A-L-P-H-A> what universe?
[08:35:31] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got a massive headache right now.
[08:35:37] <anonimasu> language for the plc's
[08:35:41] <anonimasu> I am writing a memory hack..
[08:35:46] <anonimasu> to get some stuff working
[08:36:05] <A-L-P-H-A> oh. plcs. completely different story. thought you were programming a pc.
[08:36:19] <A-L-P-H-A> why the heck don't you just get a linux embedded device.
[08:36:25] <A-L-P-H-A> shit... what where they called.
[08:36:30] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: because this is commercial stuff
[08:36:45] <A-L-P-H-A> sec.
[08:36:47] <A-L-P-H-A> let me find something.
[08:36:55] <A-L-P-H-A> it's a flash based linux micro computer...
[08:38:52] <anonimasu> yeah I've seen it, but it's not really a option..
[08:39:09] <anonimasu> the trouble is how much extra work that adds up
[08:40:59] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.gumstix.com/ there we go.
[08:41:24] <A-L-P-H-A> sorry it took me a while to find it
[08:41:44] <anonimasu> np
[08:41:45] <anonimasu> :)
[08:42:01] <A-L-P-H-A> I need some pain killers.. I've got a head ache.
[08:42:01] <A-L-P-H-A> brb
[08:42:04] <anonimasu> ok
[08:47:00] <A-L-P-H-A> eating cold pizza with a headache.
[08:47:01] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm.
[08:47:30] <anonimasu> :)
[09:09:19] <A-L-P-H-A> head ache isn't as bad now.
[09:11:40] <anonimasu> nice :)
[09:11:58] <anonimasu> did you see the image I posted yesterday?
[09:12:31] <A-L-P-H-A> no
[09:12:35] <A-L-P-H-A> post it again.
[09:12:43] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.inflash.com/forum.php?check=1&forum_cat=1&topic_id=3407&page_title=Real+life+Peter+Griffin hehehe ifyou know what family guy is.
[09:12:53] <anonimasu> if ( da.ner != ner ) then
[09:12:53] <anonimasu> end_if;
[09:12:56] <anonimasu> whoops.
[09:13:15] <anonimasu> http://bojn.net/html/wtest.jpg
[09:13:30] <A-L-P-H-A> bad link.
[09:14:16] <anonimasu> err..
[09:14:21] <anonimasu> www.bojn.net/~an0n/wtest.jpg
[09:14:26] <anonimasu> it's not of the finished one
[09:14:29] <anonimasu> but it turned out nice..
[09:14:41] <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
[09:14:48] <anonimasu> way too large scallops for my taste though..
[09:15:03] <anonimasu> like 0.03
[09:15:22] <A-L-P-H-A> what's it for?
[09:15:25] <anonimasu> machining one with 0.001 would take 22min
[09:15:28] <anonimasu> just toying around
[09:15:31] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[09:15:33] <anonimasu> it's a rum
[09:15:35] <anonimasu> rim
[09:15:39] <A-L-P-H-A> rim for who?
[09:15:41] <A-L-P-H-A> a car?
[09:15:49] <anonimasu> yeah
[09:15:52] <anonimasu> just for testing
[09:15:59] <anonimasu> I needed to toy around with milling some 3d
[09:15:59] <A-L-P-H-A> is it structurally sound?
[09:16:12] <anonimasu> it's 40mm ;)
[09:16:21] <anonimasu> in plastic..
[09:16:28] <anonimasu> I didnt really care about that..
[09:16:29] <A-L-P-H-A> oh...
[09:16:34] <A-L-P-H-A> plastic.
[09:16:41] <A-L-P-H-A> I thought you were doing this is alu.
[09:16:47] <anonimasu> ah, might someday soon
[09:16:53] <anonimasu> wouldnt be a big deal either :)
[09:17:15] <A-L-P-H-A> how about 16" intead?
[09:17:30] <anonimasu> someday when I have a 5 axis vmc
[09:17:39] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[09:17:55] <anonimasu> or whel emc will do 5 axis interpolated motino
[09:17:57] <anonimasu> motion
[09:18:23] <anonimasu> at high speed ;)
[09:20:41] <anonimasu> *longs*
[09:20:52] <anonimasu> I would have no real problem in building a 5 axis with a column redesign
[09:20:52] <A-L-P-H-A> eating spinach leaves a really mineral taste in my mouth.
[09:20:58] <A-L-P-H-A> sorry. completely random.
[09:21:01] <anonimasu> err with a new
[09:21:02] <A-L-P-H-A> spinach was on my pizza.
[09:21:07] <anonimasu> ok
[09:22:18] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, I'll be right back.
[09:22:24] <A-L-P-H-A> .
[09:22:24] <A-L-P-H-A> 0
[09:22:24] <A-L-P-H-A> --
[09:27:16] <anonimasu> ok
[09:31:04] <A-L-P-H-A> back
[09:32:36] <anonimasu> wb
[09:49:39] <anonimasu> brb
[09:49:40] <anonimasu> lunch
[10:29:18] <anonimasu> iab
[10:39:17] <A_Guy> aaarrrggg... any one here know how to set up iis?
[10:39:38] <anonimasu> heh
[10:39:46] <anonimasu> why are you using IIS?
[10:42:52] <A_Guy> cause i have websites that are programed in asp
[10:54:25] <anonimasu> ok
[11:32:14] <A-L-P-H-A> http://eks0.free.fr/whax-demos/?f=Whoppix-ssh-dcom_config.xml
[11:32:55] <anonimasu> now that's something cute
[11:34:25] <anonimasu> fwap.
[11:40:46] <anonimasu> hm do you have a idea what that toolbar on the bottom is called?
[11:41:02] <A-L-P-H-A> no.
[11:41:14] <A-L-P-H-A> but it's watching someone hack a iis machine in realtime
[11:41:25] <anonimasu> heh
[11:41:26] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:41:32] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is not touching iss with a stick
[11:41:38] <anonimasu> damn that's my work server´┐Ż#"
[11:41:40] <A-L-P-H-A> heh.
[11:41:47] <anonimasu> holy f*ck
[11:41:51] <A-L-P-H-A> Code Red hit my old company... and we were just all down for the day.
[11:41:51] <anonimasu> just kidding ;)
[11:41:53] <A-L-P-H-A> it was fun
[11:42:24] <anonimasu> we dont get hit here the firewall is
[11:42:37] <A-L-P-H-A> <shrug> I wasn't the it guy
[11:42:39] <anonimasu> fachistic..
[11:42:42] <A-L-P-H-A> I would have forgot iss...
[11:42:51] <A-L-P-H-A> I personally enjoy apache... and always use the latest
[11:42:54] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:42:56] <anonimasu> me too
[11:45:05] <anonimasu> good music
[21:16:28] <les> Toroid company sells power transformer kits...the primary is wound...you get the wire to wind the secondary. Any voltage you want.
[21:17:45] <Jymmm> I saw those, but didn't think it was a 'drop in' solution.
[21:18:06] <Jymmm> at least this way you have the ability to order a replacement any time yo want.
[21:18:35] <les> Well they are toroids....you get about a volt per turn or so on secondary windings
[21:18:43] <les> they have stock values too
[21:19:14] <les> is 48 the exact voltage you want?
[21:20:03] <Jymmm> Honestly I'm not sure.... I pasted earlier (in here) but nobody knew the answer... just a sec and I'll repaste.
[21:20:56] <Jymmm> http://www.xylotex.com/StepperMotor.htm
[21:21:05] <les> four bigger filament transformers in series is usually the cheapest
[21:21:10] <les> checking...
[21:21:53] <Jymmm> 2.8A/phase @ 1.13ohms == 3.164Volts/phase * 20 = 63.28 / 1.4 = 45.2
[21:22:09] <Jymmm> VAC
[21:22:45] <Jymmm> iirc the VA should be at least 2/3's
[21:23:00] <Jymmm> with three motors
[21:23:42] <les> let me check something....
[21:25:16] <Jymmm> 2.8A/phase @ 4 phase = 11.2A * .66 = 7.392A * 63.28VDC = 467VA
[21:25:53] <Jymmm> ok, Watts not VA, but you're in GA not VA. Pun intended
[21:27:34] <les> still looking...be a min
[21:27:41] <Jymmm> np, take your time
[21:29:12] <les> hmmm 36v 2 amp...$6.95....
[21:30:41] <les> 43.5 v 25 amp $60
[21:31:42] <les> That is the closest I see in All Electronics catalog
[21:32:02] <les> I ordered a bunch of transformers from them a while back
[21:32:18] <Jymmm> brand new surplus stuff?
[21:32:39] <les> yeah...it was fine
[21:32:45] <les> new old stock
[21:33:49] <Jymmm> I was mentioning the transformer thing because if it fails in the middle of a 400pcs job, you KNOW where to get a replacement
[21:34:36] <Jymmm> have you played witht he DIY toriod yet?
[21:36:43] <anonimasu> Jymmm: 400pcs?
[21:37:11] <Jymmm> anonimasu ?
[21:37:26] <anonimasu> are you expecting to do that large runs of stuff already..
[21:37:41] <Jymmm> anonimasu : Yes.
[21:37:59] <anonimasu> you've better learn how to use the machine first..
[21:38:03] <les> I have not messed with the toroid kit....just saw it
[21:38:38] <les> I looked at other sites but 43.5v 25amp $60 is the best deal I can find.
[21:38:39] <Jymmm> les ah, ok.
[21:38:54] <Jymmm> les do the numbers I gave sound correct?
[21:39:09] <Jymmm> for the voltage/va ratings needed?
[21:39:33] <Jymmm> someone said 4 phase, but I have no clue.
[21:39:42] <les> ball park. I would have to check the motor specs carefully.
[21:40:31] <Jymmm> are the volts/turn the PRI or SEC? http://www.toroid.com/standard_transformers/transformer_kits/transformer_kits.htm
[21:42:02] <les> secondary. It looks like a snap....I will sure get one next time I need an odd transformer.
[21:42:26] <les> Pretty vheap too for a toroid.cheap
[21:42:53] <les> and they are really compact
[21:43:07] <Jymmm> Just depends on how many turns is needed for the secondary =)
[21:43:21] <les> low external field too. I always use them for audio work.
[21:43:38] <les> yeah. You would have about 40 turns
[21:45:21] <les> I see they are not including the magnet wire....but a minor cost
[21:45:40] <les> just a few feet of #12 or so.
[21:45:53] <les> get for free at a motor shop
[21:46:00] <Jymmm> I thought the diam of mag wire made a difference
[21:46:12] <les> it does with current
[21:46:41] <Jymmm> the largest RS sells is 22ga
[21:46:51] <les> 12 is really overkill but won't hurt
[21:46:56] <Jymmm> I'm even surprised they still carry it at all
[21:47:12] <Jymmm> I think most alternators I've seen are like 14ga
[21:47:29] <les> motor shop....It is a shame to buy a whole roll for just a few feet
[21:47:59] <Jymmm> Yeah, so 40T of 12ga huh?
[21:48:21] <les> actually THNN electrical would work.
[21:48:50] <les> 12 would be safe. They say in the kit I guess
[21:48:54] <Jymmm> THNN?
[21:49:06] <les> you know for wiring your house
[21:49:28] <les> from the hardware store
[21:49:29] <Jymmm> That's what I thought you meant.... insulated rolmex shit?
[21:49:38] <Jymmm> less the outter jacket
[21:49:52] <les> no just the pvs 105c rated stuff
[21:50:01] <Jackyafk> Jackyafk is now known as Jacky^
[21:50:08] <Jymmm> pvc. Weird.
[21:50:31] <les> magnet wire is better though really.... it's formvar and good to a few hundred degrees
[21:52:17] <les> yeah use that...the pvc might be a little marginal if it got real hot.
[21:52:50] <Jymmm> I just called them asking where the toriod kit manual was to download, really nice guy, got email/fax/phone just in case =)
[21:53:02] <les> cool
[21:53:16] <Jymmm> I'd take apart a motor/alternator before using PVC wire.
[21:53:53] <les> yeah.
[21:54:12] <Jymmm> what kinda trouble you tryin to get me into les?!?!?!
[21:54:26] <les> big fire.
[21:54:33] <anonimasu> lol
[21:54:51] <les> I wasn't tninking about the 105c till I typed it
[21:55:14] <Jymmm> les: this aint mcgyver shit.... no toothpaste explosives, or salt lick conductors here!
[21:55:18] <les> it would be fine unless it was shorted or overloaded severely
[21:55:41] <Jymmm> les : Say it with me... Poly Vinyl CHLORIDE!!!!
[21:56:05] <Jymmm> les : Can you say... HCL
[21:56:25] <anonimasu> heh
[21:56:32] <anonimasu> why not just buy a suitable transformer?
[21:56:45] <les> hey....it's good stuff...it's the binder in my conductive silver ink on the car heater busses....we have printed square miles of it
[21:56:47] <Jymmm> But, at least you have 30acres for my body to be burried at so I'll haunt you the rest of your life AND death! LOL
[21:56:51] <anonimasu> dont go cheap on stuff that might kill you or cause a fire..
[21:57:18] <anonimasu> PSU's are expensive but a well built psu wont zap you when you touch the casing..
[21:57:19] <anonimasu> ;)
[21:57:27] <les> right. get formvar magnet wire.
[21:57:27] <Jymmm> anonimasu : <Jymmm> I'd take apart a motor/alternator before using PVC wire.
[21:57:33] <anonimasu> ah
[21:57:47] <anonimasu> yeah, easiest would be to talk to somone with a coilwinder.. probably
[21:57:50] <Jymmm> les : Dont make me reire your scope's PS with MiChrome
[21:57:58] <les> haha
[21:58:09] <les> the kit comes with a winding bobbin
[21:58:18] <les> it's only 40 turns!
[21:58:25] <Jymmm> les and I have 300K feet of 40ga nichrome too (for real)
[21:58:32] <anonimasu> well, might aswell handwire it
[21:59:09] <les> save that to make power resistors. good stuff. Low TCR.
[21:59:13] <Jymmm> 40T of 12ga WILL be a bitch, but it's douable
[21:59:35] <Jymmm> les I have 40, 30, 26, 24, 22, and 18ga
[21:59:57] <les> oh 18 would prob be fine. whatever the kit says
[22:00:04] <Jymmm> NiChrome
[22:00:08] <les> oh.
[22:00:09] <Jymmm> not mag wire
[22:00:11] <Jymmm> =)
[22:01:16] <Jymmm> les : 40ga CAN be placed in a sewing machien =)
[22:01:23] <Jymmm> real slow like
[22:01:39] <les> Normally power transformers are set up such that winding losses about equal core losses
[22:02:39] <Jymmm> w/o doing all the math, lets say 18ga is half diam of 12ga. So 40T of 12ga == 80T of 18ga ?
[22:02:40] <les> I used 40 for guitar pickups.....566 for the coils in some of my designs at Shure.
[22:03:18] <les> no...turns is voltage. Wire size is current
[22:03:30] <les> 56 not 566
[22:03:59] <Jymmm> and 12ga can handle about 20A @ 120VAC ?
[22:04:12] <les> yeah
[22:04:23] <Jymmm> or 40A @ 60VAC ?
[22:04:33] <les> no
[22:04:40] <SWP_Away> 20A at any VDC
[22:04:43] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[22:04:56] <les> it's determined by heating
[22:05:02] <Jymmm> ah
[22:05:07] <les> i^2*r
[22:05:13] <SWPadnos> the current is determined by heating, voltage by the insulation (and temperature)
[22:06:18] <SWPadnos> http://xtronics.com/reference/wire_gauge-ampacity.htm
[22:07:41] <les> ty
[22:08:04] <les> I was too lazy to grab the radiotron book on the shelf.
[22:08:10] <les> 18 looks ok.
[22:08:18] <SWPadnos> heh - Google is my friend "AWG ampacity"
[22:08:57] <Jymmm> 18 is easy to wind, 12 can be REAL rough
[22:09:11] <SWPadnos> 12 can be a bitch to bend, let alone wind :)
[22:09:18] <les> We are talking about the toroid "wind your own secondary" kits
[22:09:31] <Jymmm> and I dont think mag wire is annealed, is it?
[22:09:43] <les> You should see the big square wire on our Miller and Hobart welders
[22:09:59] <Jymmm> s/wire/rod/
[22:10:24] <les> Yes I would say it is annealed.
[22:10:47] <Jymmm> I'm too lazy to open the box 3' from me and pull out the mag wire to check =)
[22:11:39] <les> wrapping it on that core is nothing. No problem. Like winding yarn in a ball.
[22:12:08] <cradek> les:
[22:12:11] <cradek> Huh? What are you talking about? It most certainly DOES blend arcs, if
[22:12:11] <cradek> you have that feature (G64) turned on! I certainly get smooth motion
[22:12:11] <cradek> from one contiguous arc to another, and between arc and straight moves.
[22:12:23] <cradek> (from Jon Elson's post)
[22:12:26] <les> I SAW THAT
[22:12:36] <cradek> it's wrong, isn't it??
[22:12:42] <les> emc does not blend arcs!
[22:12:51] <les> even with g64!
[22:12:57] <cradek> so stick up for me
[22:13:03] <les> ok
[22:13:09] <les> i'll post.
[22:13:33] <SWPadnos> Jon's version may - remember that he runs a custom patched system
[22:13:39] <SWPadnos> did blended curves ever work?
[22:13:50] <Jymmm> les is like the big o' gorilla bodyguard standing behinf cradek!
[22:14:12] <les> I'll grant that jon's might be different but....
[22:14:47] <les> all the many versions that Fred, Paul, ans I have run here do not blend arc to arc or arc to line.
[22:15:05] <les> and we have talked about it.
[22:15:34] <les> Code rems Mention it!
[22:15:58] <anonimasu> hm, I wonder if you could convery moves to splines when postprocessing..
[22:16:02] <anonimasu> convert..
[22:16:15] <SWPadnos> ok. While Jon may be odd (aren't we all), he usually isn't totally inaccurate - just thought I'd pose the question
[22:16:18] <dpy> I really don't understand why delrin (Acetyl/POM) is soooo hard to come by
[22:17:04] <les> dpy msc has plenty.
[22:17:11] <anonimasu> he's in .nl
[22:17:16] <les> oh.
[22:17:47] <les> I use delrin for most all prototype work if I can
[22:17:50] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. The new group cloaks are being tested over on the testnet; they use slashes ('/') to separate tokens. They're quite unique. :) Please stop by #freenode-testing here if you'd like to see what your current cloak looks like on the testnet.
[22:17:55] <les> it machines so nice
[22:17:59] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:18:06] <SWPadnos> and it has a good "feel" in your hand
[22:18:09] <anonimasu> * anonimasu loves machining plastic
[22:18:27] <dpy> les: it's perfect for proto typing
[22:18:32] <dpy> what is msc ?
[22:18:33] <les> yes
[22:18:42] <lilo> [Global Notice] Also, freenode has embarked on a project to provide server protection using tor hidden services. We're looking for sponsors for new servers who might wish to participate. Please message me if you're interested. Our preference would be for institutional servers, but please check with us regardless. Thanks.
[22:18:52] <les> msc is a large industrial supply house in the USA
[22:19:04] <dpy> do you have an URL
[22:19:08] <SWPadnos> http://www.mscdirect.com/
[22:19:19] <les> ty
[22:19:23] <SWPadnos> search for "acetal"
[22:19:24] <dpy> if that's the only place on earth to get it from, then that's what it takes
[22:19:29] <anonimasu> so, freenode has embarked on a project to provide server protection using tor hidden services.
[22:19:31] <dpy> it'll probably take a month to get here
[22:19:33] <les> I spend tens of thousands a year with them I guess
[22:19:34] <anonimasu> wonder what that means in reality
[22:19:50] <dpy> * dpy is in europe
[22:19:52] <SWPadnos> that tor hidden services will be used for freenode's server protection
[22:19:59] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: tap & analyze
[22:20:10] <SWPadnos> tap tap tap - sounds hollow to me
[22:20:17] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:22:09] <les> dpy no one has it in Europe?
[22:22:19] <les> it is most common here.
[22:22:28] <anonimasu> dpy: you should check where the industries shop
[22:22:33] <anonimasu> I am in europe too..
[22:22:51] <anonimasu> http://www.dupontnederland.nl/
[22:26:21] <robin_sz> delrin is the fabric/paper/formaldehyde stuff?
[22:26:39] <les> no it's acetal resin
[22:26:39] <robin_sz> beloved of high voltage freaks the world over?
[22:26:43] <SWPadnos> more like a chink of plastic, usually :)
[22:26:45] <robin_sz> ah.
[22:26:46] <SWPadnos> chunk, that is
[22:27:03] <les> the best machining stuff in the world IMHO
[22:27:17] <robin_sz> so whats the stuff im thinking of?
[22:27:18] <SWPadnos> it machines very well, has good dimensional stability, and can be directly used as bearing material (and is almost wear-proof)
[22:27:31] <SWPadnos> did I miss anything?
[22:27:34] <les> you are thinking of phenolic
[22:27:38] <robin_sz> nope
[22:27:42] <robin_sz> light brown
[22:27:46] <SWPadnos> that's phenolic
[22:27:48] <robin_sz> with fabric in it
[22:27:51] <les> yeah
[22:28:09] <les> like XXXP
[22:28:23] <les> (that has paper)
[22:28:31] <les> some has canvas
[22:29:37] <les> let me hunt it up...
[22:31:02] <les> ok. grade c has canvas.
[22:31:26] <les> Melamine looks similar...grade G5
[22:31:40] <robin_sz> coo
[22:31:56] <SWPadnos> this stuff http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Tools/SloMoSander/SloMoSanderViews/bottomroller01.jpg
[22:33:03] <les> yup that's it. I stock some here.
[22:33:18] <les> make guitars? I used to.
[22:33:23] <SWPadnos> hard to find a reasonably good color photo of the stuff
[22:33:40] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[22:33:56] <les> it is hard on tool edges.
[22:34:23] <robin_sz> theres a trade name for it in the UK
[22:34:29] <robin_sz> which I have forgotten
[22:34:33] <robin_sz> like .. mmmm
[22:34:38] <robin_sz> not paxolin
[22:35:44] <les> Well some forms were UL 94 V0 rated, so I have made hundreds of thousands of things with it.
[22:36:03] <les> Now it is supplanted by thermoplastics like Valox.
[22:43:14] <robin_sz> tufnol!
[22:43:45] <les> ah
[22:44:52] <les> I ought to hunt up the emc code that disables blending with arcs before I post in Chris' defense
[22:45:15] <les> I don't want to start a scrap....just correct wrong information.
[22:45:28] <robin_sz> oh, whose kicking up now?
[22:45:50] <les> jon clains it blends.
[22:45:55] <les> it doesn't.
[22:46:03] <robin_sz> oopsy
[22:46:21] <robin_sz> line to arc it does ... doesnt it?
[22:46:22] <Jymmm> robin_sz : plastic paper stuff is phenolic
[22:46:32] <les> He may not be seeing it much at super low speeds in a bridgeport.
[22:46:45] <robin_sz> Jymmm: in the UK, we know it as "Tufnol" ...
[22:46:50] <les> sure is nasty in a router though!
[22:47:11] <Jymmm> router, tablesaw, whatever, even with carbide tips
[22:47:32] <robin_sz> Jymmm: wrong converation
[22:47:37] <SWPadnos> that's probably what dulled my DW708 blade
[22:47:41] <les> but correct
[22:47:48] <Jymmm> tried cutting a piece on the table saw... I swear my saw said "HELP MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"
[22:48:00] <robin_sz> well, never had much trouble
[22:48:05] <robin_sz> turns nicely
[22:48:25] <Jymmm> doesn't even burn with a blow torch on it
[22:48:26] <les> our kitchen laminate material is phenolic core with melamine top layer
[22:48:27] <SWPadnos> the 708 chomped through it, but it was much harder to cut the 4x6 PT supports for my mother's porch afterwards
[22:48:38] <robin_sz> very popular in high voltage apps
[22:48:47] <les> yes
[22:48:56] <robin_sz> that where we used a lot
[22:49:08] <robin_sz> back in the days when high voltages where popular
[22:49:16] <SWPadnos> got a quick question on rotary phase converters - anyone want to take a stab at it?
[22:49:23] <Jymmm> http://www.professionalplastics.com/cgi-bin/pp.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&prrfnbr=85456&strfnbr=3&prname=Phenolic---Grade-X-Paper
[22:49:24] <les> now PEEK is used more.
[22:49:29] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: I know the answer already
[22:49:36] <Jymmm> but dont buy from them, they are too expensive
[22:49:41] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: is it "they are ancient and best avoided"?
[22:49:42] <SWPadnos> yeah yeah - get real 3-phase :)
[22:49:45] <robin_sz> no
[22:49:45] <les> We use PEEK in all our powder guns.
[22:49:56] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: get a VFD
[22:50:03] <SWPadnos> you're programming those in BASIC???
[22:50:07] <robin_sz> anyway, ask your question
[22:50:13] <SWPadnos> robin_sz, multiple machines ...
[22:50:20] <robin_sz> multiple VFDs
[22:50:27] <SWPadnos> I have a phase converter, and I'm rebuilding it for better safety
[22:50:53] <robin_sz> there is a really good safety mod for those ...
[22:50:59] <robin_sz> but you need a hammer
[22:51:31] <robin_sz> actually, joking apart ...
[22:51:33] <SWPadnos> I'd like to put an overload on the idler motor, to protect against shorted windings
[22:51:39] <robin_sz> this rotary phase convertor ...
[22:51:47] <robin_sz> the drive to it ...
[22:52:17] <SWPadnos> but of course, if I do it onthe "general" 3-phase, it'll feed the outlets as well, so it would need to be too big to help if the idler croaks
[22:52:27] <robin_sz> is it direct drive from the motor, or is it driven using overhead belts from the pulleys and shafts in the workshop ceiling?
[22:52:57] <SWPadnos> prick ;)
[22:53:08] <anonimasu> heh
[22:53:53] <robin_sz> seriously, get VFDs
[22:54:04] <anonimasu> * anonimasu agrees
[22:54:24] <robin_sz> hell, I even fit vfds to 3 phase machines ...
[22:54:28] <robin_sz> from 3 phase
[22:54:49] <SWPadnos> I have VFDs for the Bridgeport and the bandsaw, but I'd like to have 3-phase for a lathe and a polisher I expect to build
[22:55:08] <anonimasu> there are 3phase converter vfd's
[22:55:11] <SWPadnos> I'd rather not have to shell out an extra hundred or two per machine when I can have a phase converter that works
[22:55:28] <SWPadnos> I have "inverter"-tye VFD's
[22:55:31] <SWPadnos> type
[22:55:39] <les> ah found a rem in tp.c as far as arc blending
[22:55:43] <les> /* If either this move or the last move was a pure rotation
[22:55:43] <les> reset the velocity and acceleration and block any blending */
[22:55:55] <les> will that settle the issue Chris?
[22:56:34] <SWPadnos> les, only if the comment isn't recent (like in the last 2 years or so)
[22:57:06] <SWPadnos> wouldn't that apply to a rotary axis, not a circular move?
[22:57:28] <les> I could grab it from the current CVS
[22:57:39] <les> good question
[22:57:43] <les> let me look
[22:58:01] <SWPadnos> "rotation" isn't commonly used to describe arcs, I'd imagine
[22:58:40] <les> I know emc doesn't...it is all too obvious with high speed machining
[22:59:10] <les> I have watched it do that on 10,000 turkety calls
[22:59:11] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: I fit 3 pahse to 3 pahse invertor VFDs to machinerty because I like the smooth starts and the DC injection braking and all the nice features ... the smooth starting alone saves enough on machine wear during start to make the VFD pay for itself
[23:00:11] <SWPadnos> Of course VFDs are better in many ways, but I still want a couple of 3-phase outlets in the shop
[23:00:25] <SWPadnos> No matter - I figured out the answer anyway
[23:03:05] <les> I had a gouge in a lead in to an arc move on the calls caused by non blending....It cost me so much money in sanding that I hand coded an anti gouge motion to fix it.....kind of like a crude FIR digital filter
[23:03:17] <les> it was costing me hundreds per week
[23:04:37] <robin_sz> Jymmm: are you really going to try and wind a txfmr yourself?
[23:05:07] <les> the toroid corp's kits look easy!
[23:05:13] <robin_sz> hmmm
[23:05:17] <robin_sz> well ...
[23:05:19] <les> put that link back up jymmm
[23:05:36] <les> the primary is already wound
[23:05:49] <robin_sz> just remember, doing the audio amplifier thing ..w emight have wound a txfmr or two ...
[23:06:03] <robin_sz> perhaps 40,000 to 50,000 at a guess
[23:06:46] <robin_sz> there is absolutely no way you'll match the quality by hand
[23:06:46] <SWPadnos> the company has a kit - they wind the primary, and tell you how many volts/turn you get for the secondary(ies)
[23:06:53] <les> http://www.toroid.com/standard_transformers/transformer_kits/transformer_kits.htm
[23:07:01] <SWPadnos> it's a pretty cool thing
[23:07:04] <les> looks cool to me.
[23:07:11] <robin_sz> fun yes
[23:07:18] <robin_sz> but so is basket weaving
[23:07:27] <les> aw only 40 turns.
[23:07:29] <les> heh
[23:07:53] <robin_sz> seen the pics of my toriod winder?
[23:08:02] <les> I remember yes
[23:08:16] <robin_sz> it took us ages to get it right ...
[23:08:24] <les> this kit just comes with a hand bobbin
[23:08:35] <robin_sz> now its a snap ... but we smoked plenty of cores
[23:09:10] <robin_sz> I can't believe you'll get even tension by hand ...
[23:09:22] <les> you won't
[23:09:43] <les> but so what
[23:09:57] <robin_sz> uneven tension leads to shorted turns
[23:10:06] <les> I worked at a transformer company in school....
[23:10:18] <les> wound many prototypes by hand
[23:10:28] <robin_sz> toroids?
[23:10:33] <les> yeah
[23:10:55] <les> then cooked em and varnished in a pressure chamber
[23:11:14] <les> for ICBM's
[23:11:16] <les> yikes
[23:11:45] <robin_sz> never done that for power txfmrs
[23:12:16] <les> well 40 turns of #18 seems no big deal to me
[23:12:41] <les> space em out...tape it up with the kapton...
[23:13:07] <les> slather with epoxy perhaps?
[23:13:10] <robin_sz> whatwever ... I just find it mind boggling that anyone would do that in prefernece to buying a ready made one ... it can;t be cheaper, it wont be more reliable
[23:13:24] <robin_sz> fun maybe ...
[23:13:26] <SWPadnos> it will be the proper voltage though
[23:13:39] <les> well I gave him some surplus alternatives too
[23:13:49] <les> but this is for custom voltages
[23:13:52] <robin_sz> Ive never had any trouble getting the right voltage from stock
[23:14:32] <les> the kit and the surplus NOS was the same price
[23:15:49] <les> I thought kit would be educational/fun?
[23:16:38] <robin_sz> sorry, yes .. educational and fun
[23:16:43] <les> heh
[23:16:47] <Jacky^> 00:29 < dpkg> Debian! D-E-B-I-A-N! The first DPL was not named "Ain". Sheesh!
[23:16:49] <robin_sz> but I thought he was destined for business with this
[23:16:53] <Jacky^> ghghg
[23:16:59] <Jacky^> :)
[23:17:06] <les> yeah he is
[23:17:09] <robin_sz> for fun, education .. yeah sure .. wind one.
[23:17:11] <les> well his choice
[23:17:31] <robin_sz> but if you are in business .. time is the one thing you dont have enough of ..
[23:18:04] <robin_sz> if I have learnt one thing it is :
[23:18:21] <robin_sz> do not rely on cutom components .. go off-the-shelf whenever possible
[23:18:29] <les> of course. I will use one of those kits if I need a custom voltage. But I will charge $100/hr to wind it.
[23:19:40] <robin_sz> thats the thing ...
[23:19:47] <robin_sz> assuming your business idea is real
[23:19:55] <robin_sz> then your time is worth $100/hr
[23:20:06] <les> Right now my basketweaving is confined to scissoring up this piezo polymer sheet
[23:20:21] <robin_sz> invest the time in sales and marketing, rent or lease the equipment
[23:20:25] <les> I got about a square foot
[23:20:29] <robin_sz> the no1 priority is always sales
[23:20:37] <les> yeah
[23:20:44] <robin_sz> 1 sq foot of piezo?
[23:20:49] <les> yeah
[23:20:51] <robin_sz> not cheap I guess?
[23:20:55] <anonimasu> les: *jealous*
[23:20:59] <les> hundred bucks
[23:21:03] <robin_sz> wow ..
[23:21:05] <robin_sz> cheap
[23:21:06] <anonimasu> heh
[23:21:07] <anonimasu> free
[23:21:08] <anonimasu> :D
[23:21:23] <les> I pull on it with my hands and get 100 volts
[23:21:46] <robin_sz> wow
[23:21:56] <anonimasu> cool
[23:21:57] <anonimasu> :)
[23:22:15] <robin_sz> so to get 100kz, you just need 1000 pairs of hands?
[23:22:21] <robin_sz> kv
[23:22:26] <anonimasu> les: could you induce a vortex in the mach stream?
[23:22:30] <les> it's kinda instant microphone and instant speaker
[23:22:42] <anonimasu> to generate the motion to excite the material
[23:23:00] <robin_sz> well, you pull like what? 200N ?
[23:23:04] <robin_sz> for 100V?
[23:23:06] <les> well I already have powerful Mach diamonds
[23:23:33] <les> a few tens of newtons
[23:23:40] <robin_sz> 40N ...
[23:23:53] <anonimasu> hm
[23:23:54] <robin_sz> so just pull it with 40,000N .. 100kV ...
[23:23:56] <les> yeah
[23:23:59] <robin_sz> now where the problem?
[23:24:12] <robin_sz> here, have some big springs
[23:24:33] <les> I should get a couple thousand volts if I whack it with a pencil or something
[23:24:43] <robin_sz> right ...
[23:25:02] <robin_sz> so mount a pencil on the end of a small air motor maybe?
[23:25:15] <robin_sz> let it slap it a couple of thousand rpm?
[23:25:17] <les> I am pulling on it I hope with a 10^5 pascal pressure wave at 40 kHz
[23:25:34] <robin_sz> that wont work
[23:25:40] <les> ?
[23:25:47] <robin_sz> sounds a bit French
[23:25:53] <les> haha
[23:26:09] <les> one atmosphere then
[23:26:18] <anonimasu> more likely to work
[23:26:26] <les> 200 db
[23:26:48] <robin_sz> thats gonna hurt :)
[23:27:08] <les> it is strong
[23:27:14] <les> quite a whistle
[23:27:21] <robin_sz> remember ...
[23:27:34] <robin_sz> just because its outside the normal hearign range
[23:27:42] <robin_sz> doesnt mean it wont do damage
[23:28:14] <les> oh if focused it will set things on fire like a magnifying glass
[23:28:26] <anonimasu> lol
[23:28:27] <anonimasu> cute
[23:28:33] <anonimasu> there should be plenty of power to use
[23:28:39] <anonimasu> maybe not piezoelectric
[23:28:41] <robin_sz> to your hearing I meant
[23:28:42] <anonimasu> but sonic..
[23:29:00] <anonimasu> could you transform the heat to energy?
[23:29:10] <robin_sz> umm
[23:29:12] <les> Piezo is like a capacitor in series with a voltage source
[23:29:13] <robin_sz> heat is energy
[23:29:22] <anonimasu> robin_sz: usable energy
[23:29:23] <les> soabout 5000 uf
[23:29:30] <les> so freq has to be high
[23:29:43] <robin_sz> is heat not useable energy?
[23:29:51] <les> it is strongly pyroelectric yes
[23:29:51] <anonimasu> yeah but with the correct \ ^
[23:30:15] <anonimasu> you should get a nice ~ flow
[23:31:03] <les> Calcs say I should get about 100 vrms in series with 5000 uf
[23:31:08] <robin_sz> and being wobbled at 40khz ...
[23:31:20] <robin_sz> does it not get fatigueds and snap off?
[23:31:24] <les> I just have to get the frequency high enough to get the power I want
[23:31:57] <anonimasu> night guys
[23:31:59] <anonimasu> :)
[23:31:59] <les> It might fatigue
[23:32:05] <les> night
[23:32:08] <robin_sz> night anonimasu
[23:32:15] <anonimasu> les: but since it's a research project that doesnt matter right?
[23:32:22] <les> heh
[23:32:41] <les> I get paid even If I don't get it to work.
[23:32:44] <anonimasu> isnt it just proof of concept?
[23:33:11] <les> yeah this time...last one was product design...totally different
[23:33:16] <anonimasu> les: failure dosent satisfy even if you get paid..
[23:33:37] <les> I know that and so do they...that's why I was hired
[23:34:28] <les> If I get something promising then I get a big fat product development gig
[23:34:46] <dpy> * dpy is back
[23:34:56] <anonimasu> nice :)
[23:35:09] <dpy> anonimasu: all the dutch companies only sell to other companies
[23:35:20] <dpy> not to private customers
[23:35:28] <anonimasu> dpy: call the companies they sell to
[23:35:40] <anonimasu> dpy: call up your local machine shops
[23:35:44] <dpy> besides
[23:35:45] <anonimasu> that's a good bet
[23:36:06] <dpy> I can't afford to buy 1000x3000x50mm delrin
[23:36:12] <dpy> that's about 3000 USD/EUR
[23:36:28] <les> what size do you need?
[23:36:32] <dpy> anonimasu: locale machine shops do not exist here
[23:36:41] <dpy> there also is no such thing as a plastics shops
[23:36:52] <anonimasu> dpy: most machine shops stock plastic
[23:37:00] <anonimasu> for bushings and stuff
[23:37:06] <dpy> I can't even buy 50x100x50 Alu U profile/channel
[23:37:11] <robin_sz> dpy: just buy it from farnell or rs
[23:37:27] <les> I stock it in 1" thick plates and 3" round
[23:37:35] <robin_sz> dpy: yes you can, you just need to find the right shops
[23:37:42] <anonimasu> well night
[23:37:46] <robin_sz> dpy: farnell.com sell delrin
[23:37:46] <anonimasu> good luck
[23:38:19] <dpy> robin_sz: I also found msc, but now my next step would be to find some supplier closer to home
[23:38:32] <dpy> so it costs less in shipment and takes shorter to ship
[23:38:49] <robin_sz> dpy: farnell ship to the netherlands from UK by UPS, prices are OK
[23:38:54] <dpy> US is about 4-6 weeks delivery for non-air mail
[23:39:05] <dpy> robin_sz: are you in holland ?
[23:39:09] <robin_sz> UK
[23:39:13] <dpy> ok
[23:39:51] <dpy> does farnell also ship to private customers ?
[23:39:55] <dpy> i.e. non-companies
[23:39:55] <robin_sz> yep
[23:39:57] <dpy> cool
[23:40:03] <robin_sz> credit card
[23:40:29] <robin_sz> http://nl.farnell.com/jsp/home/homepage.jsp
[23:42:17] <robin_sz> hmmm .. ok, its in my paper catalogue, but not on the website ...
[23:42:44] <les> well I was gonna go out after work and play with the new tractor toy
[23:42:56] <les> not much to do though
[23:43:26] <les> I could go flip cars over or something.
[23:43:35] <robin_sz> dpy: rs stock it .. www.rswww.com
[23:43:47] <dpy> ok
[23:43:56] <dpy> I've also requested the farnell catalog
[23:44:02] <robin_sz> nice ...
[23:44:09] <robin_sz> its great catalogue
[23:44:09] <dpy> it's free, I like anything that's free
[23:44:30] <robin_sz> farnell are my No1 supplier of bits
[23:44:53] <dpy> besides, I should balance it out against all the Wehkamp,Neckermann,whatever (home shopping female postal order stuff)
[23:45:15] <dpy> I also have conrad catalog
[23:45:17] <robin_sz> what thicness plate you need?
[23:45:34] <les> Glad robin found some....we have it here and we aren't even allowed to make things
[23:46:18] <dpy> various
[23:46:20] <robin_sz> what thickness you need?
[23:46:23] <robin_sz> 50mm?
[23:46:49] <dpy> 10mm, 15mm 50mm
[23:46:57] <dpy> 500mm would be more of a block
[23:47:01] <dpy> 50mm
[23:47:03] <dpy> not 500
[23:47:03] <robin_sz> they do bar too
[23:47:03] <dpy> lol
[23:47:14] <dpy> where do you see this at farnell ?
[23:47:22] <robin_sz> rswww.com
[23:47:30] <robin_sz> search "delrin"
[23:48:09] <dpy> do also shop top private cust. overseas ?
[23:48:14] <dpy> shop=send
[23:48:18] <robin_sz> yes
[23:49:05] <robin_sz> they used to send stuff to my mate in Dubai anyway
[23:49:19] <dpy> ok
[23:49:20] <robin_sz> and Masirah or however it is spelt
[23:49:37] <dpy> it's about time you brits join the eurozone
[23:49:45] <robin_sz> yeah right
[23:49:47] <dpy> now I have to think in pound sterling
[23:50:05] <robin_sz> I tell you what ...
[23:50:08] <robin_sz> we do a deal
[23:50:14] <dpy> switching from guilders to euros was a pain
[23:50:20] <robin_sz> we'll join the eurozone
[23:50:29] <dpy> switching from guilders to euros to pounds is even worse
[23:50:55] <robin_sz> when the italians become responsible, the spanish become civilized and the french stop lining their own pockets
[23:51:07] <robin_sz> ;)))
[23:51:11] <dpy> lol
[23:51:13] <robin_sz> * robin_sz tries to start a war
[23:51:55] <dpy> imho both the brits and french are very stubborn about the money they put into europe
[23:52:02] <dpy> and get out of europe
[23:52:15] <robin_sz> well, we put in more than most
[23:52:20] <dpy> the idea should be: western europe pays, eastern europe receives
[23:52:45] <robin_sz> why?
[23:53:10] <dpy> currently the brits have a super deal with a major discount and the french have a super deal because they receive huge amounts of money for agricultural support
[23:53:26] <robin_sz> we also pay a super amount
[23:53:51] <dpy> if europe is to become one, then all countries should be more or less equal economically
[23:54:14] <dpy> it's easy to see they the eastern european countries are still developing
[23:54:34] <dpy> or should we say: recovering from the dreadful russian oppression
[23:54:42] <dpy> (hope I spelled that one right)
[23:55:08] <robin_sz> true enough ... but, we dont have the money to give them
[23:56:19] <dpy> are those prices incl VAT btw ?
[23:56:28] <robin_sz> probably not ...
[23:56:35] <robin_sz> but you dont pay vat on exports
[23:56:45] <dpy> I don't know
[23:56:45] <robin_sz> so you pay .nl VAT as you import it
[23:56:52] <dpy> right
[23:56:57] <dpy> like I'm going to do that
[23:57:43] <robin_sz> even with the rebate, we still pay more than twice what .nl does ...
[23:58:17] <dpy> wow
[23:58:24] <dpy> delrin is meltable ?
[23:58:33] <robin_sz> probably ...
[23:59:02] <dpy> robin_sz: that's bullshit, because it's about what you pay per habitant
[23:59:05] <dpy> not per country
[23:59:08] <robin_sz> nah
[23:59:18] <robin_sz> http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41256000/gif/_41256239_contributions3_gra416.gif
[23:59:24] <dpy> you pay twice as much, but brittain is about 6 times or more the size of the netherlands