#emc | Logs for 2005-07-24

[00:00:13] <Yuga> yep... ply and mdf
[00:00:19] <Imperator_> we hope to be able to cut metal, but i don't think the machine we are building really can do that
[00:00:25] <Yuga> found the cutters i was looking for :)
[00:00:44] <Yuga> well i'm sure it can cut metal... at like 2ipm :P
[00:01:33] <fenn> with most types of steel you have to mantain a certain chipload to cut it
[00:01:41] <Imperator_> mainly we want to mill that butter plates, or how you are calling them in the USA
[00:01:52] <fenn> the only way to get that is to increase pressure at the cutting interface.. usually accomplished with higher rigidity
[00:02:20] <fenn> you need higher rigidity to get more force on the bit and still keep it near where you want it to be
[00:02:43] <fenn> if you dont have enough pressure at the cutting interface, it just rubs on the surface
[00:03:10] <fenn> wood cuts quite a lot differently than metal
[00:03:13] <Imperator_> and the tool is gone after a second
[00:03:14] <Yuga> * Yuga goes and get's the plasma cutter and ataches it to his cnc machine... increase presure my ass :) hehehe
[00:03:49] <fenn> i'm wondering if there's a way to apply ultrasound to the tool bit on a non-rigid machine
[00:03:59] <fenn> to increase pressure at the cutting interface
[00:04:21] <fenn> but i don't have a huge university funding me, or the desire to pump hundreds of hours into researching it
[00:04:24] <Imperator_> that is used to mill hard materials
[00:04:31] <fenn> yeah? what's it called?
[00:05:09] <fenn> ah! "ultrasound milling" :)
[00:05:09] <Imperator_> http://www.gildemeister.com/de/ultrasonic
[00:05:34] <Imperator_> http://www.gildemeister.com/en/ultrasonic
[00:05:45] <fenn> thanks
[00:06:16] <fenn> funny looking machine
[00:06:54] <Imperator_> a normal mill, the spindel is the difference
[00:08:50] <Imperator_> the mill itself needs not to be very stiff
[00:10:06] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ is tired
[00:10:22] <Imperator_> goodnight
[00:10:27] <fenn> night
[00:48:06] <Jymmm> Ok, who's left?
[00:51:34] <Yuga> me
[00:53:50] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ ZZzzzZZzzz
[00:54:22] <Jacky^> Yuga: what time is it there ?
[00:54:44] <Yuga> 2am
[00:54:50] <Yuga> 2:11 am
[00:54:56] <Jacky^> same time
[00:55:08] <Yuga> wher eu from?
[00:55:09] <Jacky^> of here
[00:55:13] <Jacky^> Italy
[00:55:25] <Yuga> cool
[00:55:37] <Jacky^> hehe.. yeah
[00:56:21] <Jymmm> 1700
[00:57:07] <Jacky^> :)
[01:06:24] <Jacky^> Gnight
[01:24:52] <RonB> OK - new to EMC and fairly new to LINUX - I ahve burned "Live" version and it fails to load on muy computer - I think my choices are to modify the Morphix disc or build a computer with the right hardware - correct?
[01:37:55] <Jymmm> did you MD5 the download before burning it?
[01:38:05] <Yuga> md5?
[01:38:50] <RonB> no - had to download on a windbloze machine and burn with Roxio
[01:39:02] <Jymmm> there is MD5SUM for windows
[01:39:18] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD5
[01:39:23] <Jymmm> for even MS-DOS too
[01:39:34] <RonB> well - that computer is 50 miles away
[01:40:03] <RonB> will look it up and check or download another - takes overnight here
[01:40:21] <RonB> and checksum -
[01:40:43] <RonB> was the reason I burnedone when I had a cable connection
[01:41:10] <Jymmm> wehenever you download a ISO image file, you should ALWASY check the MD5 sugnature
[01:41:14] <RonB> tried three times here and got bad MD5 sums
[01:41:36] <RonB> enough of th epreaching
[01:42:09] <cradek> he's right - he's not preaching, it's just that downloading such a big file often fails to work correctly due to limitations in the tcp protocol
[01:42:14] <Jymmm> So, you had mad checksum and still burned a cd anyway?
[01:42:18] <Jymmm> s/mad/bad/
[01:42:30] <RonB> NO - had bad checksums here
[01:43:03] <RonB> so I when I was at my sister's house downloaded by cable modem and burned one
[01:43:33] <Jymmm> BEFORE burning, you should have checked the signature is what I'm saying.
[01:43:34] <RonB> didn't realize I could checksum on WinBloze
[01:43:50] <RonB> OK- I HAVE IR NOW
[01:44:11] <Jymmm> I know he's just frustrated but, what an ass.
[01:44:29] <cradek> yeah, you told him what's probably wrong, and how to fix it
[01:44:35] <cradek> but don't sweat it
[01:44:40] <Jymmm> =)
[01:45:14] <Jymmm> Heh, wait till he tries to find MD5SUM for M$, it aint easy thing todo as the most common version has a bug in it =)
[01:45:31] <Jymmm> 1.8 is buggy, 1.9 is fine
[01:46:04] <Jymmm> how goes it cradek?
[01:47:01] <cradek> oh fine, just fighting with eagle
[01:47:28] <Jymmm> cradek : what ya making?
[01:47:36] <cradek> a front panel for an altair 680
[01:47:41] <cradek> actually I'm making the whole machine
[01:48:14] <cradek> I'm going to use a real 6800 uP and emulate the rest of the support circuitry (including ram, clock generator, etc) with an avr
[01:48:31] <Jymmm> cradek gonna use it as a controller?! lol
[01:48:35] <cradek> ha
[01:48:52] <Jymmm> cradek : Impress me, programm it fom thwe switches!
[01:49:22] <cradek> oh I will, when it's done
[01:49:31] <Jymmm> cradek you sick puppy! lol
[01:49:35] <cradek> obviously, that's the only way to program it
[01:49:49] <cradek> you've never toggled in a program?
[01:50:04] <Jymmm> 16 keyed, but not this
[01:50:53] <Jymmm> cradek you have any idea what 20mm THK style rails/slides cost by chance?
[01:51:01] <cradek> no clue
[01:51:17] <Jymmm> what about hiwin?
[01:51:58] <cradek> ?
[01:52:03] <cradek> I don't even know what these things are
[01:52:15] <Jymmm> cheap thk rails == hiwin
[01:52:18] <Jymmm> hiwin.com
[01:53:03] <Jymmm> cradek ok, why are yo making an altair?
[01:53:13] <cradek> why not?
[01:53:28] <Jymmm> cradek yo bored?
[01:53:56] <cradek> why do you ask?
[01:54:01] <Jymmm> might be cool to create an arcade game machine
[01:57:05] <Jymmm> cradek have you programmed a 6800 before?
[01:57:44] <cradek> no, but I've programmed many different processors
[01:57:57] <cradek> some much more complex than the 6800
[01:58:00] <cradek> it's pretty straightforward
[01:58:48] <Jymmm> Ah, just was wondering if you had any particular interest in this itself (nostagic, etc)
[01:59:14] <cradek> I have a case
[01:59:17] <cradek> it's empty
[02:04:58] <Jymmm> ok, that makes sense
[06:39:17] <Jymmm> Hi LawrenceG
[06:39:47] <Jymmm> LawrenceG : Hey you know anything about linear rails by chance?
[07:56:05] <dmwaters> {global notice} Hi all.... erm, that netsplit was my fault.... I accidently killed the wrong process on the wrong box. I'm very very sorry for that... Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode...
[08:56:03] <fenn> yowsa
[10:06:13] <anonimasu> hello
[10:06:25] <ValarQ> 'lo
[10:08:34] <anonimasu> what's up?
[10:08:52] <anonimasu> I just tried to do a program to machine a hole..
[10:08:56] <anonimasu> turned out great
[10:14:09] <Yuga> hey all
[10:15:37] <Imperator_> hi
[10:16:06] <anonimasu> hello
[10:16:40] <Yuga> anything interesting happen here in the past 7 hour's :) any new link's :)
[10:16:46] <anonimasu> not really
[10:16:59] <Yuga> hmm... been kinda dead here the past 3 day's
[10:18:33] <Yuga> guess i should write the bdi to cd and try and figure it out
[10:19:31] <anonimasu> :)
[10:19:38] <anonimasu> I've been doing some tests with the mill this morning
[10:19:41] <anonimasu> turned out great
[10:19:45] <anonimasu> that's about what I've been dping
[10:19:46] <anonimasu> doing
[10:19:59] <Yuga> pic's?
[10:20:09] <anonimasu> no
[10:20:23] <anonimasu> tried to code a boring cycle to make holes without using a drill..
[10:20:27] <anonimasu> I hate changing tools by hand
[10:20:43] <anonimasu> and plunging into work violently isnt a good way to do holes :)
[10:20:54] <anonimasu> need to step down 0,3 and the do a circle..
[10:24:08] <anonimasu> now I am working on a algorithm to parse some inputs from a plc
[10:24:25] <anonimasu> receive packets from the plc..
[10:24:52] <Yuga> oh well... u seem to have to much time on your hands :P
[10:25:59] <anonimasu> Yuga: I work 12 hours a day so no..
[10:26:03] <anonimasu> usually
[10:27:23] <Yuga> what u do for a living?
[10:33:16] <anonimasu> I program PLC's..
[10:33:54] <Yuga> cool. i messed around with that about 7 year's ago... was quite a interesting job
[10:35:07] <anonimasu> I dont really have a job desc so far, I do product development/prototyping for work..
[10:35:28] <anonimasu> and huydralics & related stuff
[10:35:32] <Yuga> nice... new chalanges every day
[10:35:35] <anonimasu> YEAH
[10:35:40] <anonimasu> that's why I like doing it :)
[10:35:50] <Yuga> hydralic's... also fun to play with :P
[10:38:48] <Yuga> what's more acurate? gear's with a bigger or smaller pitch?
[10:39:04] <Yuga> smaller i would guess
[10:39:46] <anonimasu> smaller would be more accurate
[10:39:54] <anonimasu> however that depends on who makes the gear :)
[10:40:31] <Yuga> aaarrrg
[10:40:43] <Yuga> bladdy buggers... y dont they all just make good products!
[10:41:13] <anonimasu> lol
[10:41:19] <anonimasu> you should have a talk with les when he shows up later :)
[10:41:42] <Yuga> y?
[10:42:22] <anonimasu> he knows way more about machine design then I do :)
[10:42:45] <Yuga> aaahhh... but havent seen him around
[10:42:54] <anonimasu> he's here today although idle
[10:42:56] <Yuga> or maybe i just havent been looking hard enough
[10:44:45] <Yuga> i can get stuff realy cheap from australia... problem is that the buggers dont sell pre drilled round shaft for mounting
[10:49:05] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[10:49:41] <anonimasu> I am just pondering if I should bother to use the PLC led as interface or if I should use the interface on the pc..
[10:49:45] <anonimasu> and just use the buttons on the plc..
[10:49:54] <anonimasu> that way I dont have to pass data both ways
[10:50:13] <Yuga> sounds like the more logical way
[10:50:32] <Yuga> that way if there is a problem it's only coming form one side
[10:50:46] <anonimasu> oh, I am just making it easy for me
[10:50:53] <anonimasu> plc > pc > machine
[10:50:57] <anonimasu> no comm with the plc..
[10:51:19] <anonimasu> other then plc > pc..
[10:51:28] <anonimasu> it makes for less parsing on the plc side..
[10:51:43] <Yuga> probibly end up using v-rail instead of round shaft....
[10:51:43] <anonimasu> I dont need the led since I'll be having the interface on the pc anyway
[10:53:06] <anonimasu> ok
[10:53:08] <anonimasu> :)
[10:54:41] <Yuga> just ignore me... i am trying to convince myself :)
[10:55:04] <Yuga> i know i should use round bar... but it's 3X the price
[11:03:27] <robin_sz> meep?
[11:03:36] <Yuga> jeep?
[11:04:10] <robin_sz> so .. whats new then?
[11:04:36] <Yuga> robin_sz... i've gone mad and started arguing with myself
[11:04:46] <robin_sz> no you havnet
[11:04:49] <Yuga> besides that.. anonimasu is reinventing the wheel :)
[11:04:55] <robin_sz> ah yes :)
[11:04:59] <Yuga> robin_sz... should of seen me before u arived
[11:05:14] <robin_sz> logger_aj: bookmark
[11:05:14] <robin_sz> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2005-07-24#T11-05-14
[11:05:35] <Yuga> hey... that's quite cool
[11:06:11] <Yuga> so u pretty much set a book mark... then when u return u just read from where u left off
[11:06:19] <robin_sz> no
[11:06:36] <Yuga> ?
[11:06:44] <anonimasu> Yuga: reinventing the wheel?
[11:06:46] <robin_sz> thats just the URI of todays log
[11:07:09] <Yuga> anonimasu... playing with your plc/pc and all
[11:07:13] <robin_sz> now, I desperately need a sheet feeder
[11:07:34] <anonimasu> Yuga: you can buy me a complete interface.
[11:07:56] <Yuga> anonimasu... i was messing around. dont get to worked up about it
[11:08:08] <anonimasu> Yuga: I could always buy a fanuc to get the buttons there..
[11:08:11] <Yuga> hence the nice smiley face
[11:08:14] <robin_sz> last night as I was struggling to load sheets, it became clear to me that I need a sheet feeder, like NOW
[11:08:43] <Yuga> robin_sz... what size sheets? and sheets of what?
[11:08:49] <anonimasu> robin_sz: moving rack + stationary loader arm?
[11:08:56] <robin_sz> 2.5 x 1.25 steel sheets
[11:09:12] <Yuga> hmm... ya... kinda heavy
[11:09:20] <robin_sz> anonimasu: yeah, I found a real good source of rack
[11:09:30] <robin_sz> anonimasu: industrial sliding door track
[11:09:32] <anonimasu> rack & pinion/screw?
[11:09:48] <Yuga> what source? website?
[11:09:50] <anonimasu> huydralic?
[11:10:03] <anonimasu> yeah I think you told me about it earlier
[11:10:16] <robin_sz> anyway ... I just need to get on with it
[11:10:30] <anonimasu> robin_sz: launch sw and make a drawing for yourself :)
[11:10:38] <robin_sz> yeah
[11:10:48] <anonimasu> and bounce some ideas here once it's done :)
[11:10:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is off to grab a cup of tea
[11:10:58] <robin_sz> the storage for the sheets is whats hard
[11:11:05] <robin_sz> some sort of shelves
[11:11:20] <anonimasu> how many slots did you need?`
[11:11:23] <anonimasu> I've forgotten
[11:11:27] <robin_sz> I dunno, 10?
[11:13:26] <anonimasu> hm, if it can be done I'd move the shelves..
[11:13:55] <anonimasu> and just have a stationary arm sliding in to push the sheets into the machine
[11:14:04] <anonimasu> if there's enough room
[11:14:04] <Jacky^> morning
[11:14:09] <anonimasu> and you can make it stable eonugh..
[11:15:15] <anonimasu> hm, 10 x of the heaviest sheets you will have, what will it weigh?
[11:15:24] <robin_sz> hea
[11:15:29] <anonimasu> 1t?
[11:15:31] <anonimasu> 2t?
[11:15:33] <robin_sz> iest pack of sheets will be one tonne
[11:15:55] <anonimasu> ouch, then moving the shole rack isnt really feasible..
[11:16:12] <robin_sz> one shelf though ...
[11:16:22] <anonimasu> rack/shelf..
[11:16:24] <robin_sz> 1t isnt a lot
[11:16:29] <robin_sz> is it?
[11:16:35] <anonimasu> oh, depends on how you move it..
[11:16:41] <anonimasu> linear motion ^
[11:16:52] <anonimasu> screw/rack & pinion..
[11:16:56] <robin_sz> I was thinking of some sort of rack eith 10 shelves
[11:17:03] <anonimasu> * anonimasu did too
[11:17:09] <robin_sz> each shelf sits on wheels
[11:17:18] <anonimasu> ok
[11:17:23] <robin_sz> some sort of platofrm moves up and down the fornt of the rack
[11:17:28] <robin_sz> shleves slide out ...
[11:17:39] <anonimasu> hm, what does one sheet weigh..
[11:17:41] <robin_sz> use chains maybe to lift the platrform
[11:17:49] <robin_sz> 1 sheet max 250kg
[11:18:20] <anonimasu> hm, a robot pillar.. maybe
[11:18:21] <robin_sz> thats 10mm 2.5 x 1.25m
[11:18:42] <robin_sz> an easy lift with 8 250mm vac pads
[11:18:45] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:18:59] <anonimasu> maybe a gantry overhead..
[11:19:08] <anonimasu> and the lift on top..
[11:19:17] <robin_sz> what I imagined was a linear gantry from the shelf to the laser
[11:19:23] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[11:19:30] <robin_sz> using garage door track
[11:19:30] <anonimasu> got tracks/slides for the floor motion?
[11:19:56] <robin_sz> and the platform extracts a shlef from the stack and brings it to the picking position
[11:20:14] <robin_sz> the gantry then picks a sheet and lifts it to the laser
[11:20:18] <anonimasu> you can use proximity switches to detect sheets..
[11:20:26] <anonimasu> so you just move into position and push out the shelve..
[11:20:28] <robin_sz> well, yeah
[11:20:38] <anonimasu> then when it hits the shelve it knows where it is..
[11:20:42] <anonimasu> no fancy controls and stuff..
[11:20:54] <anonimasu> then you can use normal DC motors..
[11:20:57] <robin_sz> I was thinking of loading the sheets against stops on the shelves
[11:21:03] <anonimasu> yep
[11:21:14] <robin_sz> sand then its all basically fixed position
[11:21:18] <anonimasu> then you can use normal DC/AC motors for moving the whole gantry
[11:21:22] <robin_sz> right
[11:21:27] <robin_sz> the other option ...
[11:21:34] <robin_sz> is to have fixed shelves
[11:21:36] <anonimasu> instead of having it positioned.
[11:21:52] <robin_sz> and use a vac lifter to load them sheet by sheet
[11:22:03] <robin_sz> and extract them sheet by sheet
[11:22:11] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:22:19] <robin_sz> decisions huh?
[11:22:25] <anonimasu> the trouble is that you end up with way to much motion
[11:22:25] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:22:27] <anonimasu> :D
[11:22:32] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[11:22:41] <anonimasu> the less you move the less to screw up
[11:22:45] <robin_sz> but ... you need less shelves
[11:23:00] <robin_sz> load a stack of some weird material
[11:23:07] <robin_sz> it stores them away somewhere
[11:23:10] <robin_sz> remembers
[11:23:22] <robin_sz> and can get them back by shuffling when it needs to
[11:23:32] <anonimasu> hm, if you make the shelves sliding
[11:23:42] <anonimasu> you can slide them out in the rear to load material with a forlkift..
[11:24:01] <robin_sz> true
[11:24:34] <robin_sz> or just use some sort of trolley to push them into slot 0, the platform then moves them to another slot
[11:25:06] <anonimasu> hm, yeah but moving shelves like that would mean lots of more designwork :)
[11:25:16] <robin_sz> sigh
[11:25:19] <anonimasu> hm, I have a idea.
[11:25:26] <robin_sz> buy one?
[11:25:28] <anonimasu> no..
[11:25:35] <anonimasu> for moving shelves..
[11:25:39] <robin_sz> employ big men with muscles?
[11:25:41] <robin_sz> oh.
[11:25:44] <anonimasu> polish workforce
[11:25:44] <anonimasu> :D
[11:25:49] <anonimasu> just kidding..
[11:25:53] <robin_sz> yeah
[11:25:53] <anonimasu> let me get a pen
[11:25:59] <robin_sz> latvians are cheape
[11:26:00] <robin_sz> are
[11:26:51] <anonimasu> how much is one shelve of sheets..
[11:26:53] <anonimasu> the heaviest..
[11:26:56] <robin_sz> 1t
[11:26:59] <anonimasu> you will load.
[11:26:59] <anonimasu> ok
[11:27:09] <robin_sz> all our steel comes in 1t packs
[11:27:36] <robin_sz> ps 41mm of steel = 1 tonne of 1.25 x 2.5 sheets
[11:27:44] <robin_sz> so 4 10mm sheets
[11:27:50] <robin_sz> 8 5mm sheets
[11:28:02] <anonimasu> ok
[11:30:50] <anonimasu> I'll have a drawing in a little bit6
[11:30:55] <robin_sz> :)
[11:31:02] <robin_sz> sw?
[11:31:07] <anonimasu> I'll draw one side of the shelve moving arrangement..
[11:31:15] <anonimasu> no, solidedge..
[11:31:19] <robin_sz> coo
[11:31:21] <anonimasu> I can export sw I think..
[11:31:27] <anonimasu> I am demoing it ;)
[11:33:08] <robin_sz> is it just me ... or has linuxcnc.org dropped out of the DNS
[11:33:18] <anonimasu> no idea
[11:33:37] <anonimasu> seems like it's dead
[11:34:59] <anonimasu> want me to draw it as a assembly?
[11:35:07] <robin_sz> feel free
[11:35:15] <anonimasu> ok�
[11:35:19] <robin_sz> just a sketch will do
[11:35:21] <anonimasu> then I get to play with that feature of the cad program..
[11:35:36] <robin_sz> assemblies are the key
[11:40:49] <anonimasu> it'll take a while though since I need to play a bit ;)
[11:42:25] <robin_sz> ok
[11:42:39] <robin_sz> i miht go and cut some more steel then
[11:43:00] <anonimasu> ok
[11:43:03] <anonimasu> will you be back later?
[11:43:45] <robin_sz> http://www.rosshandling.co.uk/wheels3.asp
[11:43:52] <robin_sz> see the gr series?
[11:44:37] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:44:39] <anonimasu> nice
[11:46:06] <anonimasu> I'll have a drawing in a sec..
[11:49:39] <anonimasu> I still have to draw the actual shelve..
[11:49:44] <anonimasu> but you should get the idea anyway
[11:55:02] <anonimasu> still lacking lots of drawing..
[11:55:51] <anonimasu> the holes in the moving part.. is for mounting gripper's to latch into the shelve..
[11:55:55] <anonimasu> and pull it out of the rack..
[13:35:07] <Jacky^> umpf..
[13:35:14] <Jacky^> 38 �
[13:35:17] <anonimasu> nice
[13:35:17] <anonimasu> :D
[13:35:28] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ sighs
[13:35:55] <Jacky^> too hot also for thinking :(
[13:36:25] <Jacky^> anonimasu: are U using xorg ?
[13:36:35] <anonimasu> yes
[13:36:42] <Jacky^> on Debian ?
[13:36:44] <anonimasu> yes
[13:36:51] <Jacky^> Debian sid I suppose
[13:36:59] <ValarQ> * ValarQ uses xfree on debian and xorg on gentoo
[13:37:02] <anonimasu> I cant remember..
[13:37:05] <Jacky^> I would like to migrate to xorg
[13:37:06] <anonimasu> let me check..
[13:37:14] <anonimasu> or well
[13:37:17] <Jacky^> i asked on #debian ...
[13:37:22] <anonimasu> ok?
[13:37:24] <anonimasu> I compiled it myself
[13:37:33] <ValarQ> Jacky^: why do you want to migrate?
[13:37:35] <anonimasu> but there's a package..
[13:37:44] <Jacky^> someone says: 14:45 < abrotman> Jacky^: you say a prayer .. and do it ..
[13:37:48] <Jacky^> :\
[13:37:56] <ValarQ> anonimasu: how did you install it?
[13:38:07] <anonimasu> make World ; make install
[13:38:11] <Jacky^> ValarQ: xorg should be better i think
[13:38:20] <ValarQ> anonimasu: without using debians package management?
[13:38:23] <anonimasu> yes
[13:38:26] <ValarQ> Jacky^: it is
[13:38:35] <anonimasu> I used apt to grab libraries I lacked..
[13:38:38] <anonimasu> and compiled others by hand
[13:38:48] <ValarQ> Jacky^: but xfree does the job
[13:39:15] <Jacky^> i've an Ati radeon 9600 with 3D accellerated driver, I supposes new xorg driver needed, right ?
[13:39:29] <ValarQ> anonimasu: i don't feel good using both raw 'make install' and package management
[13:39:35] <Jacky^> ValarQ: wich jobs ?
[13:39:36] <anonimasu> me neither
[13:39:37] <anonimasu> I hate debian
[13:39:38] <anonimasu> it's messy
[13:39:39] <ValarQ> anonimasu: thats why i mainly use gentoo
[13:39:49] <anonimasu> I'd use slackware if I had the time to configure it
[13:39:51] <ValarQ> Jacky^: writing stuff on the screen :)
[13:40:12] <Jacky^> uhm..
[13:40:18] <anonimasu> but it was the only way I could get the fxglrx driver there..
[13:40:20] <anonimasu> it comes as rpm
[13:40:27] <anonimasu> and slack wouldnt use rpm2tgz nicely
[13:40:29] <anonimasu> :D
[13:40:34] <anonimasu> and i got tired of messing..
[13:40:46] <Jacky^> anonimasu: for xfree86 I used alien to convert
[13:40:47] <ValarQ> anonimasu: ati card?
[13:40:51] <anonimasu> yeah
[13:40:54] <anonimasu> radeon 9800
[13:40:56] <anonimasu> mobile.. :)
[13:40:59] <Jacky^> it worked fine
[13:41:06] <anonimasu> so i just installed the package with --force --no-dependencies --DO-AS-I-SAY
[13:41:08] <anonimasu> ;)
[13:41:17] <ValarQ> anonimasu: i only buy nvidia's crap nowadays
[13:41:20] <anonimasu> not quite, but I had to pry it into..
[13:41:26] <anonimasu> ValarQ: I've had bad experiences with them
[13:41:28] <anonimasu> :/
[13:41:30] <Jacky^> anonimasu: which window manager you use ?
[13:41:38] <anonimasu> right now gnome
[13:41:44] <anonimasu> but it's slow..
[13:41:45] <anonimasu> :D
[13:41:53] <ValarQ> anonimasu: they usually work for me, ati cards however...
[13:42:01] <Jacky^> slow ? strange..
[13:42:05] <ValarQ> * ValarQ uses IceWM
[13:42:07] <anonimasu> it was the fastest I could get in my laptop ,)
[13:42:08] <anonimasu> ;)
[13:42:21] <Jacky^> I'm in love with evilwm
[13:42:28] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/someshot.png
[13:42:39] <Jacky^> only 1 pixel of border to the windows
[13:42:53] <anonimasu> nice
[13:42:56] <Jacky^> no icons
[13:43:07] <Jacky^> and good keyboard control
[13:43:28] <ValarQ> sounds right :)
[13:43:43] <Jacky^> I'm not sure to migrate to xorg yet :(
[13:45:02] <anonimasu> :)
[13:45:07] <Jacky^> anonimasu: is xorg stable for you ? or frequently crashed ?
[13:45:24] <anonimasu> very stable..
[13:45:29] <Jacky^> ok
[13:45:32] <Jacky^> :)
[13:45:48] <anonimasu> there isnt any large changes in xorg yet
[13:46:13] <Jacky^> I know ..
[13:46:22] <anonimasu> but it's stable..
[13:46:22] <anonimasu> :9
[13:46:28] <Jacky^> I read something
[13:47:45] <Jacky^> ValarQ: nice shot
[13:47:52] <ValarQ> Jacky^: thanks
[13:55:55] <Jacky^> here's the mine: http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&pos=-1274
[13:56:04] <Jacky^> some mounth ago..
[13:56:16] <anonimasu> hm, and I am all out of resistors
[14:02:20] <alex_joni> greetings
[14:02:26] <Jacky^> hi alex_joni
[14:04:18] <alex_joni> wot's up?
[14:04:35] <anonimasu> hey alex
[14:04:40] <alex_joni> hey anders
[14:04:46] <Jacky^> alex_joni: hot
[14:04:49] <anonimasu> do you know if you can do loops with the interpreter?
[14:04:59] <alex_joni> wanted to ask you smthg too
[14:05:09] <anonimasu> ok
[14:05:21] <alex_joni> anonimasu: you can, but only with those updates that were done to the interp
[14:05:26] <alex_joni> commited to emc1
[14:05:29] <anonimasu> hm, arent they in emc2?
[14:05:42] <alex_joni> but I think I heard that they cause other things to break
[14:05:47] <anonimasu> bleh..
[14:05:53] <alex_joni> yup ;)
[14:05:58] <anonimasu> I guess I'll just generate repeated ops for what I want
[14:06:04] <alex_joni> caused a bit of a fuss when it was commited
[14:06:08] <alex_joni> should be safer
[15:53:33] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[16:15:12] <_dreamer> good morning
[16:44:12] <alex_joni> hello
[16:44:43] <_dreamer> hi
[16:45:11] <alex_joni> I see new faces around
[16:45:13] <alex_joni> ;)
[16:45:22] <_dreamer> * _dreamer looks around
[16:45:38] <alex_joni> I meant you ;)
[16:45:55] <_dreamer> Hi, my name is bob. And I am here because of fenn. I met him at a cnc-workshop. And I want to build everything.
[16:46:23] <alex_joni> well then .. you picked a very suitable nick ;)
[16:47:02] <_dreamer> I"ve had this nick since I was 15, so it's an old hat. ;) 11 yrs now. Most people don't call me this though. They call me crazy bobby.
[16:47:12] <_dreamer> which confuses me.
[16:47:15] <alex_joni> heh, even nicer ;)
[16:47:21] <_dreamer> lol
[16:47:26] <alex_joni> yeah..
[16:47:45] <alex_joni> well .. as fenn probably told you this is the channel for emc and emc-enthusiasts
[16:47:53] <alex_joni> mainly for discussion of development
[16:47:55] <alex_joni> and ideas
[16:48:14] <_dreamer> yep, I want to learn as much as I can and contribute if at all. I still feel like a total newbie to this.
[16:48:17] <alex_joni> (although it, sometimes, gets hijacked for wild discussions ;)
[16:48:23] <_dreamer> lol
[16:48:28] <alex_joni> _dreamer: welcome to the club ;)
[16:48:34] <_dreamer> * _dreamer bows
[16:48:36] <_dreamer> thank you
[16:48:43] <alex_joni> I count myself as one of the older newbies ;)
[16:48:55] <_dreamer> cool. you got machine tool?
[16:49:00] <alex_joni> been trying to figure things out for a while now ( > 1 year)
[16:49:34] <alex_joni> I'm not really a machining fan, more the hardware guy
[16:49:42] <alex_joni> but I do some software too
[16:50:02] <_dreamer> I got really interested in march of this year, though I have been around industrial stuff like lathes and presses and saws and grinders and stuff. I always considered it hot, strenous labor for my father until I realized that I was actually doing something very productive instead of greasy and demanding and not fun.
[16:50:17] <_dreamer> hardware of computers?
[16:50:21] <alex_joni> yup
[16:50:33] <_dreamer> micro controllers? plc?
[16:50:49] <alex_joni> some micros
[16:50:51] <alex_joni> plc less
[16:51:02] <alex_joni> _dreamer: www.juve.ro
[16:51:03] <_dreamer> that stuff is totally baffling to me!
[16:52:11] <alex_joni> oh.. and to keep with the flow I built a machine for EMC too (it's nothing serious, more like a toy, but I like it)
[16:52:39] <_dreamer> wow man! that's some cool stuff you've done!
[16:52:41] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/mytoy/
[16:53:03] <alex_joni> _dreamer: ty
[16:53:09] <anonimasu> hm
[16:53:19] <alex_joni> anonimasu might disagree
[16:53:20] <alex_joni> lol
[16:53:24] <anonimasu> does anyone have any idea how to calc resistors for a opamp
[16:53:24] <_dreamer> hehe
[16:53:32] <anonimasu> why would I disagree?
[16:54:46] <jmkasunich> anonmisu: what are you trying to do with the opamp?
[16:54:59] <jmkasunich> inverting amp, non-inverting, diff-amp, filter?
[16:55:12] <anonimasu> inverting
[16:55:20] <anonimasu> I am trying to make a 0-5v signal go from 5-0
[16:55:31] <jmkasunich> ahh - invert and offset
[16:55:35] <anonimasu> yeah
[16:55:39] <anonimasu> it's the gain I am having trouble with
[16:56:49] <jmkasunich> tie + input of opamp to 2.5V (2 identical resistors, one to +5, one to ground)
[16:56:54] <anonimasu> voltage divider in - pinyeah
[16:56:57] <anonimasu> done that already :)
[16:57:04] <anonimasu> and the - to a resistor
[16:57:11] <anonimasu> and another resistor to the out pin
[16:57:12] <jmkasunich> then use two identical resistors for gain, one from circuit input to - input of opamp
[16:57:23] <jmkasunich> one from output to - input of opamp
[16:57:49] <anonimasu> 7eay
[16:57:51] <anonimasu> that's what I've got
[16:58:22] <jmkasunich> and it doesn't work?
[16:58:47] <anonimasu> yeah
[16:58:52] <anonimasu> 0.97v idle
[16:59:33] <jmkasunich> "idle" means what? input floating, input tied to +5, input grounded?
[16:59:36] <anonimasu> yeah
[16:59:39] <anonimasu> yeah
[16:59:40] <anonimasu> floating
[16:59:42] <anonimasu> to multimeter
[17:00:09] <jmkasunich> with input floating, I would expect 2.5V on both input and output
[17:00:24] <alex_joni> input floating is not ok
[17:00:37] <alex_joni> try to tie it to ground and see what comes out
[17:00:43] <alex_joni> same for tied to +5
[17:01:00] <anonimasu> multimeter should be ok shouldnt it?
[17:01:14] <jmkasunich> depends... digital or analopg meter?
[17:01:25] <alex_joni> I'm not sure it's always getting the same voltage
[17:02:21] <anonimasu> digital
[17:02:37] <jmkasunich> ok, then it probably has very high input impdeance, that is good
[17:02:45] <jmkasunich> what value resistors are you using?
[17:02:48] <Yuga> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/mytoy/ <--- very cool... no idea what u would use it for thou :)
[17:03:11] <alex_joni> Yuga: thx
[17:03:20] <alex_joni> I plan to do a big version for plasma cutting
[17:03:24] <Yuga> what u plan to do with it?
[17:03:28] <anonimasu> 7kohm for the input..
[17:03:29] <anonimasu> err
[17:03:32] <anonimasu> voltage divider
[17:03:32] <alex_joni> it's a lot cheaper than rails & tracks
[17:03:46] <Yuga> cool... can only cut in a triangle thou :)
[17:03:56] <anonimasu> 20 ohm for the input
[17:04:03] <anonimasu> and 20ohm for the one goint vout
[17:04:28] <jmkasunich> ok, 20 ohm is way too low
[17:04:45] <anonimasu> give me something and I'll grab a resistor
[17:04:46] <anonimasu> :
[17:04:48] <anonimasu> :)
[17:04:48] <jmkasunich> opamp circuits usually work in the range of 1K to 100K
[17:05:13] <alex_joni> Yuga: yeah, but imagine it a 10x10m triangle
[17:05:50] <anonimasu> got larger ones now
[17:05:56] <Yuga> couldnt u put 4 of them there?
[17:06:08] <alex_joni> sure.. but it's not needed
[17:06:12] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ is fighting with BDI4-20
[17:06:15] <alex_joni> and with 3 I actually do XYZ
[17:06:18] <alex_joni> hey Martin
[17:06:23] <Imperator_> Hi Alex
[17:06:27] <alex_joni> not only XY as in the movies
[17:06:38] <Imperator_> do you know a boot parameter to disable the network ?
[17:07:13] <alex_joni> why do you want that?
[17:07:45] <anonimasu> hm dosent work
[17:07:50] <alex_joni> you could unplug the cable..
[17:07:56] <anonimasu> 2.5v in on the 3rd pin
[17:08:05] <anonimasu> 5v in on the 2nd pin
[17:08:12] <Imperator_> have installed a fresh copy of BDI4-20 (the old system was 4.08) and if it tryes to enable the network it stops.
[17:08:14] <anonimasu> 2nd pin tied to vout via a resistor
[17:08:33] <Imperator_> but the network card is probed correctly before
[17:08:44] <anonimasu> input tied tp 2nd pin via resistor
[17:09:00] <alex_joni> how do you mean it stops?
[17:09:35] <Imperator_> booting hangs without a message
[17:09:49] <jmkasunich> anon: what is your power supply?
[17:09:59] <anonimasu> 3x 1,5v batteries
[17:10:00] <jmkasunich> and what is the op-amp part number?
[17:10:11] <alex_joni> Imperator_: are you sure it's not the ntp sync that hangs?
[17:10:22] <alex_joni> I get that too.. but pressing Ctrl-C makes it go on
[17:10:23] <anonimasu> 741cp
[17:10:52] <Imperator_> alex_joni: that don't helps
[17:11:00] <alex_joni> too bad :(
[17:11:06] <jmkasunich> I doubt 741 works properly on such low voltage.. that is an "old-fashioned" opamp, designed for +/- 12V
[17:11:14] <alex_joni> Imperator_: any error messages?
[17:11:20] <Imperator_> maybe the problem is that i said to to installer to use dhcp, but i don't have dhcp
[17:11:25] <Imperator_> nope
[17:11:31] <jmkasunich> you need to get a datasheet from the web or somewhere, and read the minimum supply voltages
[17:11:32] <alex_joni> ahh.. then it should go on after a while
[17:11:34] <anonimasu> it should..
[17:11:35] <alex_joni> a long while ;)
[17:11:45] <anonimasu> maybe..
[17:11:45] <jmkasunich> there are newer opamps designed for single 5V supply use
[17:11:45] <anonimasu> heh
[17:12:07] <anonimasu> that might be the trouble..
[17:12:16] <anonimasu> I should grab the big supply and try it.
[17:12:20] <Imperator_> alex_joni: have waited 10min
[17:12:28] <alex_joni> hmm.. that's long
[17:12:35] <alex_joni> can you boot a rescue disk?
[17:12:38] <alex_joni> or smthg?
[17:12:41] <Imperator_> if i remove the network card it runs
[17:12:48] <alex_joni> ok.. boot without
[17:13:03] <alex_joni> and remove the network from /etc/init.d/rc.3
[17:13:09] <alex_joni> or where it is
[17:13:12] <anonimasu> it gives me 4v out when I put + to the input
[17:13:44] <Imperator_> ok
[17:14:12] <anonimasu> might just be a voltage issue
[17:17:02] <alex_joni> were you guys aware of http://www.ece.osu.edu/nist_rcs_lib/applications_RCS.html ?
[17:17:53] <anonimasu> hm, now I have 7,7v on the output
[17:18:16] <anonimasu> and when tied to + I have 3.6
[17:18:31] <alex_joni> sounds biased
[17:18:37] <anonimasu> yeah
[17:18:41] <anonimasu> how do I solve that
[17:19:15] <anonimasu> larger/smaller resistors?
[17:19:34] <alex_joni> check that they are the same value
[17:19:41] <alex_joni> not by reading but by measuring them
[17:24:08] <jmkasunich> wife just got home from church, time for lunch
[17:24:10] <jmkasunich> back in a bit
[17:24:43] <alex_joni> enjoy
[17:26:24] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to dinner
[17:26:31] <alex_joni> later
[17:30:25] <dave-e> hmmm, awful quiet this morning
[17:31:12] <dave-e> anyone actually done a project with classicladder
[17:31:26] <dave-e> either with emc or external to emc?
[17:33:39] <dave-e> ok...next....
[17:33:48] <dave-e> anyone working with synergy?
[17:43:45] <dmess> bon jour tous... ; )
[17:49:09] <Jymmm> Mornin Folks!
[17:49:20] <Jacky^> hey Jymmm
[17:49:40] <Jymmm> Jacky^ you up late
[17:50:04] <Jacky^> :-)
[17:50:17] <Jacky^> Jymmm: this evening pizza and beer :P
[17:50:23] <Jymmm> lol
[17:50:26] <Jacky^> 2 hours yet ...
[17:50:28] <Jacky^> :P
[17:57:47] <dmess> who's building what??
[17:58:19] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is building an attitude
[17:59:00] <Jymmm> how ya doin dmess
[17:59:45] <dmess> survivin'... ; )
[17:59:50] <dmess> you??
[18:00:20] <Jymmm> Looking for some rope to hang some ppl.
[18:00:40] <Jymmm> you know that machine I bought?
[18:00:54] <dmess> i have 3mm spectra...1800#... but it ait cheap..
[18:01:08] <dmess> no what did you buy??
[18:01:58] <Jymmm> well, they already changed it on their website... k2cnc.com 2525
[18:02:26] <dmess> which is waht in canada??
[18:02:35] <Jymmm> Nah, LA
[18:02:41] <dmess> a mill??
[18:02:46] <dmess> cnc??
[18:02:57] <Jymmm> you have no browser?
[18:04:17] <dmess> looks like a toy to me... sorry..
[18:04:48] <Jymmm> why a toy?
[18:05:05] <dmess> tyler my 11 yr old would have a blast with it...
[18:05:34] <dmess> ive gor aircraft landing gear in the mellon these days..
[18:05:56] <Jymmm> make the landing gear out of balsa wood
[18:06:04] <dmess> ever seen a WFL machine
[18:06:07] <Jymmm> and cast iron wheels
[18:06:10] <Jymmm> nope
[18:06:15] <dmess> not good,..
[18:06:27] <dmess> wfl millturn
[18:06:31] <Jymmm> no clue what a WFL machien is
[18:06:45] <dmess> amayanazing... ; )
[18:06:59] <dmess> or amenanazing..
[18:07:19] <dmess> toolchange a 2 M boring bar..
[18:08:31] <dmess> http://www.wfl.at/prodon.asp?Lg=2&Seite=1&UID=&peco=&Cy=1
[18:10:46] <dmess> we've got 2 landing in august...
[18:19:44] <Imperator_> LawrenceG: are you arround ?? What network card are you using ?? My Realteck network card crachs if the mesanet card is pluged in !!!
[18:21:56] <LawrenceG> currently using one built in to ausu mother board
[18:23:38] <Jymmm> LawrenceG anything wrong with using the internal nic?
[18:26:02] <Imperator_> hm, that is interesting, with BDI4.08 it was no problem
[18:26:19] <Imperator_> now with BDI 4.20 it crashs
[18:27:41] <LawrenceG> I have the mesa card in my devel box running ubuntu linux... havent tried it in my machine box running bdi
[18:29:18] <Jymmm> SOunds like it might be a IRQ/DMA conflict
[18:29:32] <Imperator_> seams like
[18:29:47] <Jymmm> (or on the RARE outside.... Base Address)
[18:29:54] <LawrenceG> the mesa card uses a real standard pci interface chip... mostly memory mapped so that should be clean
[18:30:22] <LawrenceG> are you trying to run anything or it fails during boot?
[18:30:29] <Jymmm> LawrenceG PCI doens't make a difference... There are only so many IRQ/DMA channels available
[18:30:37] <Imperator_> it fails during boot
[18:30:50] <Jymmm> I forget the utility to check on nix
[18:30:55] <Imperator_> but on the old installation that was no problem
[18:31:44] <Jymmm> Imperator_ did the old installation have both the ext nic and mesa card?
[18:32:21] <Imperator_> the mesacard has no driver, there is only the hal driver.
[18:32:34] <Imperator_> and the hal driver is not loaded during boot
[18:32:49] <Jymmm> Not driver, just hardware
[18:32:57] <LawrenceG> with my system running but the mesa card not doing anything, it takes no intr or dma resources... check cat /proc/interrupts and /proc/dma
[18:35:22] <Imperator_> ok, i try it, but i have to reboot
[18:35:37] <Jacky^> pizza-time :P
[18:35:41] <Jacky^> bye all
[18:38:33] <LawrenceG> I am looking for ideas for cheap servo driver for use with mesa card.... with the pwm and the dir outputs, the hardware should be pretty simple. With a split supply, 2 fets should do it... I would like to have pulse by pulse current limiting and and use the pwm output to dutermine how long a current pulse the motor gets..
[18:39:53] <LawrenceG> a couple of ff, a couple of fets
[18:41:44] <Imperator_> i think a servo amp needs a current controller
[18:42:42] <Imperator_> the guys here in that german forum, who building a servo amp like the geckos with a atmel, have the problem that it works only with some servos
[18:42:45] <LawrenceG> thats what I mean.... pwm output from mesa turns on fet.... current rises to designed value... and forces the fet drive off for currentpulse.
[18:43:14] <Imperator_> to which value ?
[18:44:14] <LawrenceG> something between max continuous current and max peak current for motor... the pwm will determine the actual avg current the servo motor sees
[18:44:52] <Imperator_> the problem they have, in my thinking, is that with dynamic servos, even a short puls causes a too big movement of the servo, then the servo controller has to drive back. and that is the vibrating they discribe all the time
[18:45:29] <LawrenceG> hmm... do youhave any links to what they are trying to use?
[18:46:21] <Imperator_> its german
[18:46:23] <Imperator_> http://www.peters-cnc-ecke.de
[18:46:39] <LawrenceG> the pwm stream out of the mesa is 30khz or so.... I havent actually looked at it with the scope yet
[18:47:17] <Imperator_> they use a atmel controller and a full bridge, that is more or less all
[18:47:59] <Imperator_> i make at teh moment a DAC board for the mesa card. with that you can drive all amps with +-10V input
[18:49:13] <Imperator_> http://www.gertronik.de/cncecke/plan.pdf
[18:49:40] <Imperator_> thats the new version of the amp they are developing
[18:50:05] <Imperator_> http://www.gertronik.de/cncecke/layout.pdf
[18:50:20] <Imperator_> http://www.gertronik.de/cncecke/bestueck.pdf
[18:56:06] <LawrenceG> hmm... way more complicated than I was thinking of... most of of the complexity is already looked after in the fpga...
[18:57:39] <LawrenceG> I will study their design... it looks like they are quite far along...
[18:58:18] <Imperator_> it works not that good
[18:59:00] <Imperator_> hi alex
[18:59:06] <alex_joni_> 'lo
[19:01:14] <alex_joni_> ok.. seems to work now
[19:01:15] <alex_joni_> :)
[19:03:11] <LawrenceG> it looks like they have step and dir inputs like a gecko.... I want to do real servo using the emc servo loop.
[19:03:27] <alex_joni_> hello LawrenceG
[19:04:03] <LawrenceG> hi Alex
[19:04:16] <alex_joni_> what's up?
[19:05:05] <LawrenceG> trying to figure out a simple cheap power output stage for the mesa card
[19:05:18] <alex_joni_> nice
[19:06:48] <LawrenceG> I might even try one with a linear constant current stage pulsed by the mesa card... makes heat but gets away from the fet drive issues... for smaller servo motors it may be fine
[19:07:54] <Imperator_> LawrenceG: thats right, they have Step/Dir inputs
[19:08:14] <LawrenceG> not sure if the darlingtons I have will switch fast enough...
[19:13:47] <LawrenceG> basically I want a digitally controlled (via mesa pwm output) constant current source also using the direction bit to determine polarity of current to the motor
[19:15:13] <LawrenceG> alex: what did you do to get it working?
[19:16:29] <alex_joni_> get what working?
[19:16:42] <alex_joni_> ahh.. my network connection...
[19:17:01] <alex_joni_> had problems with antenna & reception
[19:17:54] <robin_sz> meep!
[19:22:10] <alex_joni> LawrenceG: almost made it work ;)
[19:22:50] <alex_joni> robin_sz: meep indeed
[19:25:25] <anonimasu> m33p
[19:30:39] <anonimasu> alex_joni: there?
[19:31:06] <alex_joni> yup
[19:31:13] <alex_joni> here
[19:31:17] <anonimasu> alex_joni: what did you think I disagreed with earlier?
[19:32:09] <alex_joni> you said: "hM"
[19:32:39] <anonimasu> what did I say hM at?
[19:32:40] <alex_joni> and I thought it was related to what I said ;)
[19:32:48] <anonimasu> lol
[19:32:50] <alex_joni> dunno ;)
[19:33:02] <alex_joni> guess it was your opamp
[19:33:14] <alex_joni> :)
[19:33:17] <anonimasu> it's strange I couldnt get it working
[19:33:30] <anonimasu> I'll order 5v suitable ones and lots of resistors tomorrow
[19:33:34] <anonimasu> a 100pack..
[19:33:47] <robin_sz> 5V ... how quaint
[19:33:54] <anonimasu> quaint?
[19:34:06] <alex_joni> dull
[19:34:13] <anonimasu> I am changing a 0-5v signal to a 5-0v
[19:34:14] <robin_sz> no not dull
[19:34:30] <robin_sz> more sort of "how nice to see such old things still in use"
[19:34:42] <anonimasu> robin_sz: opamps?
[19:34:52] <robin_sz> 5v stuff .. the world is 3.3v now
[19:35:02] <alex_joni> not opamps
[19:35:06] <anonimasu> car sensors are 5v
[19:35:07] <anonimasu> :)
[19:35:08] <alex_joni> those are mainly +/-15
[19:35:35] <robin_sz> car sensors?
[19:35:40] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:35:43] <robin_sz> devices for sensing the presence of cars?
[19:35:57] <anonimasu> yes.
[19:36:01] <anonimasu> ofcourse.
[19:36:06] <anonimasu> *grins*
[19:36:18] <anonimasu> no, seriously sensors inside of cars, for various things
[19:36:31] <robin_sz> oh, ok
[19:36:36] <alex_joni> like sensing farts
[19:36:43] <alex_joni> and cursing passengers
[19:36:57] <robin_sz> why curse passengers?
[19:37:04] <robin_sz> they cause no trouble
[19:37:22] <robin_sz> they just sit there, gripping the seats and going white ...
[19:37:35] <anonimasu> robin_sz: did you come to any conclusion regarding sheet changing?
[19:37:40] <robin_sz> yes
[19:37:52] <anonimasu> order one?
[19:37:57] <robin_sz> nah
[19:37:59] <robin_sz> 50K
[19:38:14] <anonimasu> I know :D
[19:38:16] <robin_sz> which is about 49K more than I have to spend
[19:39:15] <alex_joni> quid?
[19:39:24] <robin_sz> yip
[19:39:50] <alex_joni> ouch ;)
[19:42:09] <robin_sz> ahh, heres something almost perfect ...
[19:42:19] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64809&item=7532603429
[19:42:25] <alex_joni> wot?
[19:42:35] <robin_sz> an 11kw chocolate pump
[19:43:19] <alex_joni> nice ;)
[19:46:07] <anonimasu> heh
[19:46:16] <anonimasu> robin_sz: yeah but that pump alone wont change sheets ;)
[19:46:47] <robin_sz> you wanna know how I do it at the moment, ?
[19:47:22] <robin_sz> pallet of steel on a forklift
[19:47:43] <robin_sz> bring it over the laser, forks tilt forward
[19:48:01] <robin_sz> use airline to float the top sheet off :)
[19:48:09] <anonimasu> ok
[19:48:23] <robin_sz> works ok even with 6mm sheets
[19:49:59] <anonimasu> nice.
[19:54:06] <anonimasu> :D
[19:58:10] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[19:58:52] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is now known as Jymmm
[19:59:02] <alex_joni> funny
[19:59:24] <Jymmm> anyone looked at DeskCNC by chance?
[20:01:07] <Jymmm> alex_joni how ya doin?
[20:01:20] <alex_joni> toggling ;)
[20:04:10] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, I've looked at it. weak system. but maybe good to do simple stuff.
[20:05:47] <Jymmm> weak?
[20:10:03] <Jymmm> What is a 'single-stroke font' ?
[20:10:04] <A-L-P-H-A> not very well featured.
[20:10:11] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A ah.
[20:10:12] <A-L-P-H-A> single line... easily engravable.
[20:10:40] <Jymmm> That part I understand, but I have like 50,000 fonts, so which ones are 'single line' is what I'm asking =)
[20:11:19] <Jymmm> err single stroke I mean
[20:12:05] <Jymmm> and I don't think it means this either =) http://www.dafont.com/en/font.php?file=single_stroke
[20:19:12] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, it actually is.
[20:19:40] <A-L-P-H-A> but if you have a GOOD machine, it won't matter. as it can trace over cut parts already
[20:20:09] <anonimasu> trace over?
[20:22:01] <anonimasu> well, time to shop something to drink
[20:24:15] <alex_joni> get some coke ;)
[20:32:02] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A : Heh.... no, that is the NAME of that font, not what it is =)
[20:33:03] <Jymmm> those lil squiglies you see are part of the actual font.
[20:34:01] <A-L-P-H-A> oh.
[20:34:05] <A-L-P-H-A> I thought it was describing it.
[20:34:15] <Jymmm> Yeah, lil tricky aint it =)
[20:34:27] <A-L-P-H-A> single stroke,is when the pen never leaves the the paper for a single line.
[20:34:38] <A-L-P-H-A> like handwritting script...
[20:35:25] <Jymmm> Well, like the letter i it have to lift up
[20:35:54] <Jymmm> is single stroke good becasue it reduces teh jog time?
[20:35:57] <A-L-P-H-A> yes
[20:36:06] <A-L-P-H-A> not exactly.
[20:36:29] <A-L-P-H-A> I wouldn't worry about it, unless you're large doing production runs.
[20:36:34] <robin_sz> so Jymmm how is your router?
[20:36:36] <A-L-P-H-A> swap large and doing.
[20:36:46] <Jymmm> robin_sz in the box
[20:36:51] <robin_sz> going back?
[20:36:52] <A-L-P-H-A> shipping it back?
[20:37:33] <Jymmm> The replacemetn leadscrew they sent me was 1" too short. They asked to ship the WHOLE machien back, they'll fix everything and then pallet it back to me.
[20:37:46] <robin_sz> heh
[20:37:53] <robin_sz> you know ... now I look at the photos ..
[20:37:55] <A-L-P-H-A> how far away are they?
[20:37:58] <Jymmm> They also offered to upgrade to THK *STYLE* rails for $285USD more.
[20:38:02] <robin_sz> I can see a failry basic design flaw
[20:38:25] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A 200 miles... I'm in SF, they are in LA
[20:39:13] <Jymmm> So, I'm not sure if the $285 is worthwhile or not.
[20:40:20] <robin_sz> I dont like the way the central leadscrew drives the gantry
[20:40:50] <robin_sz> if you push the gantry back at one side only, does it flex?
[20:41:08] <Jymmm> you mean RACK ?
[20:41:24] <robin_sz> ?
[20:41:40] <Jymmm> it's not suppose to flex.
[20:41:45] <robin_sz> the pictures you showed me where with a central leadscrew
[20:41:55] <Jymmm> X y or Z ?
[20:41:59] <robin_sz> X
[20:42:05] <Jymmm> ok
[20:42:10] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, shouldn't happen, if the slides are good, and spaces well apart.
[20:42:22] <robin_sz> well, no, the desing isnt like that
[20:42:23] <Jymmm> no, it has rails on either side of it
[20:42:38] <robin_sz> even with well spaced carriages it will flex
[20:42:46] <Jymmm> witht the leadscrew doscinnected it doens't flex
[20:42:55] <robin_sz> wtf?
[20:43:16] <robin_sz> look .. let me explain
[20:43:28] <robin_sz> with the leadscrew conencted
[20:43:37] <robin_sz> and the motor locked
[20:44:02] <robin_sz> if you push on one side of the gantry to move the X axis backwards up the table
[20:44:10] <robin_sz> how much movement is there?
[20:44:14] <Jymmm> none
[20:44:26] <robin_sz> zero?
[20:44:44] <Jymmm> none, I dont know about 0.0001" though
[20:45:00] <robin_sz> wow, thats better than my bridgeport then
[20:45:38] <robin_sz> there should be quite a bit with that design
[20:45:46] <Jymmm> the bearings on the X axis are adujstable (as it is now)
[20:45:59] <robin_sz> so?
[20:46:13] <robin_sz> have you actually measured this?
[20:46:38] <Jymmm> <Jymmm> none, I dont know about 0.0001" though
[20:46:52] <robin_sz> well, before you ship it .. measure it .. I bet its well out of spec
[20:47:08] <Jymmm> it's already boxed up
[20:47:19] <robin_sz> ach too late then
[20:47:37] <les> hi guys
[20:47:40] <robin_sz> hi les
[20:47:42] <Jymmm> hey les
[20:48:03] <les> I read back....sending the unit back huh
[20:48:31] <Jymmm> If they'll fix it 100% this time, great. Dont know if the $285 for the THK *style* rails/slides are worth it.
[20:49:04] <les> its bishop wisecarver type now right?
[20:49:14] <Jymmm> say what?
[20:49:19] <alex_joni> hey les
[20:49:20] <les> wheels
[20:49:25] <Jymmm> les yeah
[20:49:26] <les> hi alex
[20:49:30] <les> k
[20:49:46] <Jymmm> Let me get the specs of the rails...
[20:49:57] <les> thk type would depend on cutting forces
[20:49:59] <alex_joni> les: how's that board doing? the dsp-based one iirc
[20:50:38] <les> It's gonna be soft in x near max and min y
[20:50:58] <les> I am having trouble getting in touch with the developer
[20:51:30] <les> But had to put in on back burner due to new development contract
[20:51:37] <les> the spray gun stuff
[20:51:48] <Jymmm> les Model: BRH20A ---> http://www.abbatech.com.tw/i-frame/product/p_list_01_01_01.htm
[20:51:57] <les> checking
[20:52:08] <Jymmm> brb... smoke
[20:53:03] <les> k
[20:53:50] <les> jymmm, I would go with it...and seriously beef up the supports...due to single leadscrew design
[20:54:12] <les> x will be as soft as jelly
[20:56:15] <Jymmm> les they are replacing the leadscrews with ballscrews
[20:56:20] <les> I would guess 20 lb would deflect x .05" or so at low and high y axis positions
[20:56:34] <Jymmm> les that was the parts they shipped up to me that were 1" too short.
[20:56:52] <les> I see.
[20:57:40] <les> Well, I would use twin screws for that type of layout, but if it's too soft I'll help you stiffen it up some.
[20:57:58] <Jymmm> les : So, basically it's this machine, but only 25" x 25" instead http://k2cnc.com/CNC-router-KG-3925_detail.asp
[21:00:37] <les> ok
[21:02:17] <les> servo/gecko?
[21:03:14] <Jymmm> I hav ethose 269inoz steppers, and the xylotex board isn't accounting for the midband crap (stalls), so I'm thinking of getting the G202's and the USC board.
[21:04:09] <les> well do servo if you can ($$)
[21:05:39] <les> You will be cutting at around 100-150 ipm
[21:05:46] <les> or need to anyway
[21:05:48] <Jymmm> Well... $$ is the issue (of course). I already have $400 tied up in the stuff I got from Xylotex. I was trying to just eat the $200 loss on the driver and PS and to go with geckos, USC, and PS will be abourd $800 as it is.
[21:06:18] <Jymmm> using the steppers I already have.
[21:06:45] <les> can you cut at 150 ipm?
[21:07:01] <Jymmm> Hell, I could even jog > 28IPM without stalling.
[21:07:13] <les> ok
[21:07:19] <les> well that's enough
[21:07:28] <Jymmm> could NOT
[21:07:40] <les> oh
[21:07:47] <Jymmm> my bad
[21:08:19] <les> well you really must do 150 or so...or you can't keep router chip load right
[21:08:26] <robin_sz> my old router did 600 ipm rapids on steppers
[21:08:28] <Jymmm> That's why I'm looking at geckos. I talked to Mariss for two hours. He was telling ME the symptoms I was haivng.
[21:08:29] <les> do what ever you have to to get it
[21:08:41] <robin_sz> yeah 120 to 150 is about right on a router
[21:08:58] <les> for the size Jymm bought, yeah.
[21:09:38] <Jymmm> So you think I'll be able to get 150 IPM with the new setup?
[21:09:41] <Jymmm> and geckos
[21:09:57] <robin_sz> what torque are the steppers?
[21:09:57] <les> servos and geckos?
[21:10:14] <Jymmm> The steppers are 269 in oz
[21:10:23] <Jymmm> les steppers
[21:10:25] <robin_sz> whats that in Nm?
[21:10:29] <Jymmm> no lcue
[21:10:30] <les> heh
[21:10:48] <robin_sz> well, I needed about 5.5Nm ...
[21:10:52] <les> what is the leadscrew pitch?
[21:10:59] <cradek> ! units 269*in*oz*gravity N*m
[21:10:59] <cradek> * 1.8995574
[21:11:03] <robin_sz> direst to a 10mm pitch screw
[21:11:05] <les> ty
[21:11:08] <les> hi chris
[21:11:12] <cradek> hello
[21:11:19] <robin_sz> 1.9nm .. not enough
[21:11:25] <robin_sz> puny
[21:11:28] <les> I agree
[21:11:30] <Jymmm> les the ballscrews are 5/8" - 5 turn (0.2" pitch) Thomson Ball screws
[21:11:38] <cradek> I'm not chris, I'm his robotic units-weilding coconspirator.
[21:11:38] <Jymmm> les on X and Y
[21:12:19] <robin_sz> Jymmm: look for around 4Nm minimum ... 500 oz in
[21:12:29] <Jymmm> NEMA 23 ?
[21:12:34] <robin_sz> 34
[21:13:12] <robin_sz> nema 23 is probably not big enough
[21:13:28] <robin_sz> get a Sany-denki single stack Nema 34
[21:13:50] <les> yeah....signs look awfully funny with slipped steps
[21:15:17] <Jymmm> ok, who sells servos that size?
[21:16:16] <les> I used to sell them
[21:16:22] <les> big ones
[21:16:35] <les> we sold about 100 of them
[21:16:39] <Jymmm> les I hate buying on ebay only due to if one ever needs to be replaced
[21:16:50] <Jymmm> I'm down till I find a replacement
[21:17:16] <les> well have a look and check to see if they are still produced
[21:17:41] <les> course replacement might be $$$
[21:19:04] <les> but really...servos are pretty reliable...expect thousands of hours
[21:19:27] <les> you just will need brushes then anyway
[21:19:35] <Jymmm> * Optimized for use with 160 volt drives.
[21:20:25] <les> depends...geckos are aroung 70v.
[21:20:42] <Jymmm> That was at the bottom of a servo spec sheet
[21:20:55] <les> let me check
[21:21:05] <Jymmm> http://www.servosystems.com/amp_step34ht.pdf
[21:21:56] <alex_joni> ok guys
[21:22:02] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is going to sleep
[21:22:05] <alex_joni> night
[21:22:07] <Jymmm> night
[21:22:37] <les> night alex
[21:22:47] <les> you mean the servos on the k2 site?
[21:22:56] <Jymmm> http://www.servosystems.com/amp_step34ht.pdf
[21:23:08] <les> looking
[21:23:33] <anonimasu> hm
[21:23:35] <anonimasu> I am curious
[21:23:41] <anonimasu> who has experience doing 3d with the old TP
[21:24:12] <les> me
[21:24:30] <anonimasu> I carved a small wheel.. in plastic
[21:24:40] <les> problems?
[21:24:42] <anonimasu> it turned out great but during z moves the z axis was creeping..
[21:24:44] <anonimasu> slowly
[21:25:12] <les> I never get any creep whatsoever
[21:25:21] <anonimasu> I should be able to do 3 axis interpolated stuff at full feedrate..
[21:25:27] <les> yes
[21:25:27] <anonimasu> 1m/min right now
[21:25:34] <robin_sz> * robin_sz falls of his chair laughing
[21:25:38] <anonimasu> so it's not a tp problem then..
[21:25:45] <anonimasu> I had a talk with my mother..
[21:25:46] <les> no.
[21:25:53] <anonimasu> well
[21:25:55] <robin_sz> the key word there is "should" ;)
[21:25:59] <anonimasu> we will see when the USC arrives..
[21:26:18] <anonimasu> she suggested to remove the attic in the garage.. so I could fit a big mill..
[21:26:18] <anonimasu> :D
[21:26:24] <les> yeah...should.
[21:26:53] <les> of course the tp is still well...highly flawed.
[21:26:58] <anonimasu> yeah..
[21:27:01] <Jymmm> anonimasu s/mill/cnc_center/
[21:27:13] <anonimasu> Jymmm: yeah
[21:27:23] <robin_sz> and what plans are thre to resolvle the tp issues? any?
[21:27:59] <anonimasu> hm, could you do the TP calcs in hardware with a fpga..
[21:28:01] <anonimasu> ?
[21:28:13] <les> paul read books with chickens next to him here
[21:28:24] <les> then he went back and wrote some stuff
[21:28:27] <anonimasu> and one of thoose PCI-dev cards
[21:28:40] <robin_sz> and then what happened?
[21:28:47] <robin_sz> hes been kinda absent resently
[21:28:52] <robin_sz> recently
[21:29:46] <les> Well here in the colonies we expect the entire European continent to go on holiday around now
[21:29:55] <robin_sz> not the UK
[21:29:59] <anonimasu> it's been 2 weeks already ;)
[21:30:01] <robin_sz> france and germany maybe
[21:30:17] <les> But I don't know...I have been having to deal with this spray gun thing so much
[21:30:25] <robin_sz> how s that going
[21:30:29] <les> tough
[21:30:30] <robin_sz> making volts yet?
[21:30:54] <les> yeah...have sheets of piezopolymer I'm messing with now
[21:30:59] <robin_sz> wow
[21:31:10] <robin_sz> got zapped yet?
[21:31:17] <les> stub tuning to pzt ain't cuttin it
[21:31:26] <les> need q of 10,000
[21:31:27] <robin_sz> heh
[21:31:39] <robin_sz> and the load is too variable I suspect
[21:32:08] <les> well I can deal with that...it's just the whistle is not frequency stable enough
[21:32:15] <robin_sz> ahh
[21:32:23] <robin_sz> hmmm
[21:32:27] <les> I would have to phase lock it
[21:32:37] <robin_sz> sureley the stiffness varies with load?
[21:32:38] <anonimasu> I guess there should be no big deal cutting my 3d stuff
[21:32:57] <les> it will work anon...just jerky
[21:33:10] <robin_sz> and jerky = lost steps
[21:33:13] <anonimasu> hm, do you live with the jerkiness?
[21:33:18] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I dont have steppers.
[21:33:30] <robin_sz> 'k
[21:33:37] <anonimasu> I have one stepper
[21:33:45] <anonimasu> and it's on it's last life.
[21:33:49] <robin_sz> on Z?
[21:33:52] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:33:54] <les> I live ed with it by having 4 hour days turn into 12 hour ones basically
[21:34:04] <robin_sz> and which axis is loosing steps?
[21:34:15] <robin_sz> losing
[21:34:21] <anonimasu> no axis is losing steps.
[21:34:28] <robin_sz> oh, ok
[21:34:44] <robin_sz> it turned out great but during z moves the z axis was creeping..
[21:34:45] <anonimasu> I was just having trouble because the machine was going slow during one part of the move..
[21:34:50] <robin_sz> thas not you then?
[21:34:57] <anonimasu> creeping instead of moving fast.
[21:35:03] <robin_sz> ahh
[21:35:06] <anonimasu> it might be the program..
[21:35:08] <anonimasu> I am not sure..
[21:35:28] <robin_sz> I thought you meant creeping as in moving off when it shouldnt
[21:35:38] <robin_sz> whateveve
[21:35:44] <anonimasu> plunge feed 41mm/min
[21:35:46] <anonimasu> bleh..
[21:35:48] <anonimasu> there we have it
[21:35:59] <robin_sz> bleh indeed
[21:36:00] <anonimasu> and departure feed the same..
[21:36:04] <anonimasu> they should be at 1000mm/min
[21:36:18] <anonimasu> I guess it's just me :)
[21:36:21] <robin_sz> well, dep shaould be faster than plunge
[21:36:27] <anonimasu> I am milling plastic..
[21:36:41] <robin_sz> we just did some of that
[21:36:44] <anonimasu> feeds/speeds is not important :)
[21:36:45] <robin_sz> laser head blocks
[21:36:50] <anonimasu> this plastic will cut at any speed..
[21:37:02] <robin_sz> took 21h on a bridgeport :)
[21:37:12] <anonimasu> 21h?!
[21:37:13] <anonimasu> how large
[21:37:38] <robin_sz> oh, two blocks, 350mm long, 60mm wide, 50mm deep
[21:37:42] <robin_sz> lots of detail
[21:37:46] <anonimasu> ah
[21:37:49] <anonimasu> not surprising then
[21:37:55] <robin_sz> and steppers :)
[21:37:58] <les> I had one run two weeks once
[21:38:01] <robin_sz> and not a sinlge missing step
[21:38:27] <robin_sz> just put it on, set it off and come back a day later :)
[21:38:29] <anonimasu> well, hopefullt the tp issue will be solves sometime
[21:38:41] <les> I hope
[21:38:48] <robin_sz> oh, the woman who works next door complained like hell
[21:38:56] <les> Paul has a pretty good understanding of it now
[21:39:02] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[21:39:08] <anonimasu> so there's hope then
[21:39:29] <les> He claims to not know math but he does.
[21:39:35] <les> pretty good really.
[21:39:56] <les> I know the math but can't do the code.
[21:40:30] <anonimasu> cant you present a formula/way to solve the problem with the spline creation issue
[21:40:33] <les> He really poured over my old engineering texts and some papers.
[21:41:04] <les> Yeah we pretty much did that.
[21:41:40] <les> It's the code...the way emc is written. That is the only issue really.
[21:43:22] <les> Switching development to emc2 is an issue as well...i'm not sure whether good or bad
[21:44:42] <anonimasu> acutally you could probably convert the gcode to bsplines..
[21:44:55] <anonimasu> offline..
[21:44:59] <anonimasu> entirely
[21:45:01] <les> It's a real issue for me because a potential product I have is not a product.
[21:45:08] <les> because of this
[21:45:37] <anonimasu> robin_sz: did you read what I wrote on the fpga.
[21:46:02] <les> but...then I am caught up on this spray gun thing at the moment anyway
[21:46:39] <anonimasu> robin_sz: something like http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-rowe_q5.html
[21:47:09] <anonimasu> robin_sz: that should be plenty of fast enough to bruteforce the segment > bspline
[21:48:04] <anonimasu> les: yeah, I hope it'll get solved soon
[21:48:56] <les> I really would like to get back to tp issues but I have this "innovation on queue" thing with this contract
[21:49:10] <anonimasu> what does that mean?
[21:49:10] <les> or que
[21:49:20] <les> it means this:
[21:49:43] <robin_sz> anonimasu: yes it should, but a PC is well fast enough also
[21:49:50] <les> I am expectected to develop inventions at some date and time on a gant chart
[21:49:57] <les> oops
[21:50:22] <robin_sz> les: inventing doesnt happen on a timescale
[21:50:33] <anonimasu> that's insane..
[21:50:41] <les> but it's reality
[21:50:45] <robin_sz> well, no
[21:50:52] <robin_sz> it not happening is reallity :)
[21:51:03] <robin_sz> as they will find out very shortly :)
[21:51:30] <les> I told them I usually thing of things when i'm on the loo in the morning
[21:51:38] <les> they will send ex lax
[21:51:41] <robin_sz> heh
[21:52:22] <robin_sz> strange that the time you get paid for is the time during the day you dont do much thinking, and the time you dont get paid for is the time in the shower where the ideas appear
[21:52:35] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I think it's a issue of algorithm effiency..
[21:52:45] <les> yeah they need to gant chart my bowel habits
[21:53:16] <anonimasu> robin_sz: if we could steal*cough* borrow some algorithms off fanuc/rubycon..
[21:53:32] <anonimasu> or some other HSM control manufacturer ;)
[21:53:44] <anonimasu> but I looked at some haas machining centres they seem to have 3 cpu's
[21:54:48] <robin_sz> anonimasu: no. its a question of convoluted coding that means no one can work out wtf is going on ...
[21:54:59] <les> exactly
[21:55:03] <robin_sz> with cleaner code, it could be solved easily
[21:55:18] <anonimasu> les: at what?
[21:55:56] <les> well the maths are easy...emc architecture is not
[21:56:25] <robin_sz> and 2 years on, we are no further ... I decalre it dead
[21:56:45] <les> I did too unfortunately
[21:56:53] <les> at least for segmentqueue
[21:57:01] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:57:02] <les> and it was 6 years
[21:57:11] <robin_sz> oops ;)
[21:58:02] <les> I have not given up by any means....but business pressures will demand another control for me
[21:58:08] <les> at least for a while
[21:58:10] <robin_sz> likewise
[21:58:27] <robin_sz> im sticking with G200x/G101 or whatever its called this week
[21:59:20] <les> I still want an open source high performance control
[21:59:28] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:59:31] <anonimasu> same with em
[21:59:52] <les> heh...it's just typing in a text editor,,,,,
[22:00:33] <robin_sz> well, for me the G200X is just that
[22:00:40] <robin_sz> a high performance open source control
[22:00:48] <les> and emc is so good with other things...it drives me crazy really
[22:00:53] <robin_sz> yep
[22:01:01] <les> a ferrari with a rubber band engine
[22:01:09] <robin_sz> the fundamental issue is architecture and messaging
[22:01:14] <les> yup
[22:01:36] <robin_sz> and since there is a decision to stick with it, its dead until that decision changes
[22:01:45] <robin_sz> IMHO
[22:01:50] <les> I guess
[22:01:51] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:01:59] <robin_sz> shame really, as jmkasunich's stuff was very promising
[22:02:01] <anonimasu> there's hope as long as there are users & developers
[22:02:35] <les> oh I have been off too long. HAL abandoned?
[22:02:45] <robin_sz> no
[22:02:46] <anonimasu> why would it be abandoned?
[22:02:48] <robin_sz> not at all
[22:02:58] <robin_sz> but its crippled by the rest of the fungus
[22:03:00] <anonimasu> I hear it's being put to good use
[22:03:06] <les> I see.
[22:04:33] <robin_sz> he was originally moving more and more stuff into HAL
[22:05:05] <robin_sz> I could have seen the TP and even the interp getting HAL'd if the brakes hadnt been put on
[22:05:22] <jmkasunich> robin speaks heresy
[22:05:26] <les> I didn't know it had
[22:05:34] <robin_sz> really?
[22:05:39] <robin_sz> * robin_sz stands corrected
[22:05:40] <les> haha hi jmk
[22:06:09] <robin_sz> ISTR originally you were pushing ahead fast and would have HAL'd more things ...
[22:06:11] <robin_sz> no?
[22:06:16] <jmkasunich> perhaps
[22:06:30] <robin_sz> IMHO, it would have been a good thing ..
[22:06:34] <robin_sz> tahst all
[22:06:46] <jmkasunich> but there is definitely a line between things where HAL is appropriate and things where NML or another message based scheme is appropriate
[22:06:55] <robin_sz> well yes
[22:06:59] <robin_sz> I agree ...
[22:07:19] <robin_sz> its just that an inappropriate HALification might have been better than the old architecture
[22:07:32] <robin_sz> which is icky
[22:07:32] <jmkasunich> there is room for discussion about where that line should be, but when HAL is promoted as a "replacement" for NML that is counterproductive
[22:07:59] <les> I just wish I could give some programming guru some maths and he could plug it in to something that's all.
[22:08:22] <jmkasunich> hal does signal (analog, digital, sampled) NML does messages (complex, not scalars, and not sampled, but instead event oriented)
[22:08:43] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[22:08:53] <jmkasunich> unfortunately EMC like any program is a lot more than the core algorithms
[22:08:54] <robin_sz> ach .. we done this enough already ..
[22:09:27] <jmkasunich> yeah.. just noticed the thread and figured I'd pop in
[22:09:34] <les> good
[22:09:47] <jmkasunich> anyway, HAL is certainly not abandoned
[22:09:52] <robin_sz> anyway .. nice to see you jmkasunich, not noticed you around much recently
[22:09:53] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:10:02] <robin_sz> indeed not. never said it was
[22:10:15] <jmkasunich> I know... les was wondering earlier
[22:10:24] <les> The only real big issue paul and I saw was the concept of using general purpose CPUs for motion in the first place
[22:10:25] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[22:10:41] <robin_sz> with servos, its OK
[22:10:51] <robin_sz> but step pulse generation is dead IMHO
[22:10:55] <les> Paul thought he could get the comms latency down
[22:10:56] <jmkasunich> les: why do you say that?
[22:11:25] <jmkasunich> (about gen purp CPUs)
[22:11:30] <robin_sz> its the task switching all that stuff just to output a step pulse in RT
[22:11:35] <les> Paul put a "speed limit" on servo update based on comms
[22:11:44] <robin_sz> big overhead for a simple task
[22:11:47] <les> user/kernel
[22:12:08] <jmkasunich> robin - the step gen is something different - there are ways around that, from servo to hardware step gen
[22:12:17] <jmkasunich> we're talking about TP here
[22:12:18] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[22:12:32] <robin_sz> well, TP shold be doable ... with good architecture
[22:12:44] <robin_sz> heres the thing ...
[22:12:49] <jmkasunich> IMHO the thing that is fscked about user/kernel comms is that it's message based
[22:12:59] <les> we hit a brick wall at about 400 microseconds with any processor speed here
[22:13:03] <anonimasu> message based?
[22:13:06] <anonimasu> isnt it shmem?
[22:13:06] <jmkasunich> send a message across the barrier, then queue it on the RT side
[22:13:12] <robin_sz> do we really REALLY need to be able to run the IO on a differnet machine to the TP on a differetn machine to the GUI?
[22:13:15] <robin_sz> REALLY?
[22:13:15] <jmkasunich> the message is in shmem, true
[22:13:28] <jmkasunich> but it is still a message
[22:13:30] <les> pauls says it is shmem
[22:13:38] <jmkasunich> user code writes message into shmem
[22:13:41] <jmkasunich> then sleeps
[22:13:48] <anonimasu> hm, cant you write a custom driver that allows you to write directly into the memory
[22:13:54] <jmkasunich> kernel code reads message, marks it acknowledged
[22:14:02] <jmkasunich> user code wakes up and continues
[22:14:37] <les> I'm over my head...I don't understand why it has to take so long
[22:14:55] <jmkasunich> the queue should be at the rt/usr boundary
[22:15:25] <anonimasu> hm, yeah in the shmem driver
[22:15:26] <les> ok
[22:15:35] <jmkasunich> so user code can write a whole crapload of messages into it at once, then sleep
[22:15:43] <jmkasunich> and the RT code can pull one out every servo period
[22:15:51] <anonimasu> and not in the kernel handling the shmem
[22:16:01] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:16:21] <les> seems reasonable since TP stuff is causal
[22:16:36] <les> it can be done at any time
[22:16:36] <jmkasunich> user code is "bunchy"... it can generate hundreds of commands in a millisecond, but then it sleeps for many milliseconds
[22:16:43] <jmkasunich> RT code is periodic
[22:17:09] <jmkasunich> the buffer should be between the two, not embedded in the RT side
[22:17:10] <anonimasu> hm, I would like it to be optimized so you can write/grab a shitload of messages..
[22:17:59] <anonimasu> in one single read..
[22:18:21] <jmkasunich> the RT side really only wants one at a time
[22:18:31] <anonimasu> yeah, but when reading atleast..
[22:18:33] <les> well, I understand little, but I like what you are saying.
[22:18:48] <les> seems logical
[22:18:49] <anonimasu> then you can keep a buffer of n messages..
[22:18:51] <anonimasu> for servo update
[22:19:25] <jmkasunich> les: it's really strange talking to you about this... you consider the math simple, but it breaks my brain... I consider this queueing stuff, etc simple, but you say you understand little ;-)
[22:19:39] <les> heh
[22:19:44] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: can something be done about it?
[22:19:55] <anonimasu> or is it a impossible task?
[22:20:04] <jmkasunich> sure, all it takes is time and energy
[22:20:05] <Imperator_> that means moving the tp to the userspace side would solve some problems ?
[22:20:15] <jmkasunich> dunno
[22:20:37] <jmkasunich> my problem is that I spend too much time trying to tread water...
[22:21:00] <Jymmm> s/water/egg shells/
[22:21:08] <jmkasunich> for instance, the main EMC related thing I did in the last two weeks was finding a bug in the latest RTAI
[22:21:24] <anonimasu> :/
[22:21:35] <jmkasunich> Paul wants to use the latest on the next BDI, but HAL didn't work, and he blamed it on HAL, sent me a bug report
[22:21:53] <jmkasunich> real problem was with RTAI, but I had to load new kernel and all that just to prove it
[22:22:17] <anonimasu> :/
[22:22:25] <Jymmm> * Jymmm pats jmkasunich on the back and hands him a case of tequilia
[22:22:25] <jmkasunich> no progress on new stuff, just fixing things that break
[22:23:12] <les> hmmm
[22:23:46] <les> like when I am putting at the golf course and the ball gets progressively further from the hole?
[22:23:47] <jmkasunich> some weeks ago Paul was actively working on NML changes, soliciting feedback on a new NML vocabulary, etc
[22:24:02] <jmkasunich> he was also rumoured to be working on TP improvements
[22:24:09] <anonimasu> he were
[22:24:10] <les> I know he was
[22:24:12] <jmkasunich> but he's been very quiet lately
[22:24:38] <jmkasunich> I wonder if he's working in secret and is gonna dump a ton of new stuff on us one of these days
[22:24:47] <les> might
[22:24:57] <les> he knows the maths...
[22:24:58] <anonimasu> does he do that sometimes?
[22:25:03] <jmkasunich> I wish he was more open about what he's doing\
[22:26:16] <les> I have been out of touch....working on this contract
[22:27:32] <les> jymmm even called to see if I was still alive!
[22:28:30] <Jymmm> Yep... Touch Tone Defibrillator
[22:28:49] <les> Gotta earn our daily bread though huh?
[22:29:28] <les> soon the cnc production for the next year turkey calls must start and I will be all upset again
[22:29:45] <Jymmm> all that wasted cherry?
[22:29:51] <les> yeah
[22:30:31] <Jymmm> You gotta figure out some lil thing you can use it for
[22:31:06] <les> cherry has Cyanide in it...it kills stuff
[22:31:26] <Jymmm> keep the moths out of the closet
[22:31:31] <les> heh
[22:31:47] <Jymmm> cat food bowls
[22:32:31] <les> I just can't throw it in the compost pile...but burning decomposes the cyanide compounds
[22:32:34] <Jymmm> (we have a LOT of stray cats in the area, about 12 next door. worse every year with kittnes)
[22:32:48] <les> yeah here too
[22:33:02] <Jymmm> les what is the smallest piece you end up with?
[22:33:13] <Jymmm> or largest
[22:33:24] <anonimasu> les: make a pressform and press eco-calls...
[22:34:14] <les> I get typical scraps from cutting arrays of round things out of rectangular planks
[22:34:23] <anonimasu> les: would that work?
[22:34:46] <les> actually the economy line would be compression molded
[22:34:58] <anonimasu> heh
[22:34:58] <les> wood flour is a common extender
[22:35:10] <anonimasu> neat
[22:35:40] <les> or just burn it for heat
[22:36:01] <anonimasu> inject it with air so it becomes
[22:36:08] <anonimasu> a particle cloud..
[22:36:10] <anonimasu> & ignite
[22:36:16] <les> I am tired of $1000/month gas bills in the winter
[22:36:29] <Jymmm> les Got Pellets?
[22:36:40] <jmkasunich> got insualtion?
[22:36:45] <les> but then I have approx. 10,000 trees on the property
[22:36:46] <Jymmm> Got Roof ?
[22:36:53] <jmkasunich> we live well north of you and pay about $250 max
[22:37:03] <jmkasunich> and our house is far from well insulated
[22:37:06] <les> and my new tractor toy is getting a wood splitter attachment
[22:37:30] <les> I never paid much in chicagfo.
[22:37:40] <les> oops
[22:38:30] <les> I may go with one of those outdoor wood fired boilers
[22:38:42] <les> been reading too much mother earth news
[22:39:14] <Jymmm> les : You sure that $1000/mo gas bill has nothing todo with the 5000 gallon still you have outback?
[22:39:28] <les> I ran out of space and am renting more for the electronics lab...it has a heat pump.
[22:39:30] <les> heh
[22:39:59] <les> remember john I had the tronics bench right next to the router?
[22:40:07] <les> it's a problem
[22:40:33] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: How did the jog wheel stuff work out at the retrofest?
[22:40:41] <robin_sz> ooh, yeah
[22:40:44] <robin_sz> that reminds me ..
[22:40:52] <robin_sz> how did the retrofit from the fest go
[22:40:52] <les> So i'm moving that out to the new location about a quarter mile away
[22:40:58] <robin_sz> anyone go back to finish it off?
[22:41:13] <jmkasunich> we haven't gone back yet
[22:41:20] <jmkasunich> too many things to do in real lige
[22:41:23] <jmkasunich> life
[22:41:25] <robin_sz> yeah
[22:41:28] <les> it sounded kinda weird
[22:41:29] <jmkasunich> but we will
[22:41:29] <robin_sz> tell me about it
[22:41:41] <robin_sz> been stupidly busy here
[22:41:47] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is curious about the jog wheel stuff
[22:41:48] <les> like something I could fix with a hand full of op amps
[22:41:52] <jmkasunich> the problem is that we could (and should) ahve spent a week working with EMC
[22:42:03] <jmkasunich> instead we spent a week repairing and working on the machine
[22:42:10] <robin_sz> yeah
[22:42:28] <anonimasu> you should have had another cnc there and a team of guys working on retrofitting/repairing it..
[22:42:32] <jmkasunich> that is probably a 4 week job working at a sane pace
[22:42:40] <anonimasu> and you guys working on the control
[22:43:24] <jmkasunich> I have to touch base with Ray and Dave and see what their plans are
[22:45:26] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: how did the jog wheel stuff work?
[22:45:51] <jmkasunich> EMC could read the wheel, that's as far as we got
[22:45:58] <anonimasu> ok
[22:46:28] <jmkasunich> there were problems with the servo amps and the spindle drives that really stalled us
[22:46:47] <jmkasunich> (plus the sheer number of wires that needed to be identified, traced back, and connected to IO)
[22:47:31] <jmkasunich> that is the real problem... the job can be divided into two pieces:
[22:47:46] <jmkasunich> A) connect machine inputs and outputs to computer I/O
[22:47:56] <jmkasunich> B) configure EMC and HAL to run it
[22:48:12] <jmkasunich> if A was done when we got there, I think we could have accomplished B in one week
[22:48:16] <jmkasunich> but A wasn't even started
[22:48:30] <les> I would have liked to have gone...too busy. I used to fly little airplanes to the airport near Roland's place from Chicago.
[22:48:50] <les> for the $100 hamburger as we called it
[22:48:57] <jmkasunich> we had to build the computer, build mounting plates for the I/O boards...
[22:48:57] <Jacky^> ich
[22:49:03] <Jacky^> hi :)
[22:49:05] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:49:41] <jmkasunich> and we were designing it as we went along too
[22:49:50] <les> hi jacky
[22:50:04] <jmkasunich> deciding where to mount the PC, how to route the ribbon cables, etc
[22:50:10] <Jacky^> hi les :)
[22:50:16] <jmkasunich> deciding what to keep and what to rip out
[22:50:21] <robin_sz> * robin_sz prepares the 20:20 hindsight device
[22:50:33] <jmkasunich> yep
[22:51:01] <les> fact is an awful lot of stuff has to work perfectly for a cnc to function.
[22:51:02] <jmkasunich> I/we should really make a webpage or five to describe all the lessons learned and such
[22:51:20] <jmkasunich> yeah....
[22:51:32] <jmkasunich> just one example - spindle orientation (for toolchange)
[22:51:34] <robin_sz> jmkasunich: with 20:20 hindsight, you would have done better spending one day ripping and planning the retrofit, then going away and doing EMC stuff ... sending a plan back for the shop guys to prep the machine, ready for a return visit to sort it out
[22:51:46] <jmkasunich> yep
[22:51:54] <robin_sz> but ..
[22:52:02] <robin_sz> thats the benefit of hindsight
[22:52:07] <robin_sz> easy after the event ..
[22:52:15] <robin_sz> not easy when you are in the thick of it
[22:52:25] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ ich
[22:52:46] <Jacky^> :*
[22:52:47] <jmkasunich> before arrival (and even 4 days into the project) we thought this machine had mechanical spindle orient, where you activate a solenoid valve, and a dog presses against the spindle, then you run the spindle slowly intil the dog engages a slot and locks it in the right orientation
[22:53:00] <robin_sz> right ...
[22:53:02] <robin_sz> but?
[22:53:04] <jmkasunich> some Mazak's have that, but this one uses electronic orientation
[22:53:09] <robin_sz> ahh
[22:53:14] <robin_sz> like a servo?
[22:53:15] <jmkasunich> the spindle drive does the work
[22:53:17] <jmkasunich> and guess what?
[22:53:27] <robin_sz> it was ripped out?
[22:53:33] <anonimasu> broken?
[22:53:33] <jmkasunich> somebody had replaced the spindle drive with a completley different one from a different maker
[22:53:36] <anonimasu> not compatible
[22:53:38] <robin_sz> oopsy
[22:53:48] <robin_sz> quelle bummeur
[22:53:48] <jmkasunich> they had a mess of relays and cruft in an attempt to make orient work
[22:54:04] <jmkasunich> I doubt it ever did, it certainly didn't work after shipping it to roland's shop
[22:54:31] <jmkasunich> just fixing that one thing would take a couple days under the best of circumstances
[22:54:44] <robin_sz> is there a real plan to return or just a hope?
[22:55:06] <jmkasunich> I intend to return, I have a week of vacation that I can spare
[22:55:12] <robin_sz> wow
[22:55:17] <robin_sz> committed
[22:55:22] <jmkasunich> I'd rather wait a little and do it when the weather is nicer
[22:55:28] <jmkasunich> it was fscking hot
[22:55:39] <jmkasunich> and might well be worse now
[22:55:53] <les> yeah heat wave...it's heading here
[22:56:14] <les> the 4.4 degrees cooler/1000ft will help here some
[22:56:22] <robin_sz> ive had cooling trouble on the laser .. had to pointthe hot air straight out of the back door to survive the heat
[22:56:51] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ busy with sex :P
[22:57:02] <les> oh really?
[22:57:11] <robin_sz> yeah
[22:57:43] <jmkasunich> well, I have some (non-CNC) milling to do
[22:57:50] <robin_sz> had to move the chilelr and make a big duct on top
[22:57:56] <robin_sz> l8r jmkasunich
[22:58:12] <jmkasunich> been procrastinating, cause the mill is in the hot garage and the computer is in the cool basement
[22:58:15] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ change tool 19 cm
[22:58:26] <les> I wil try to be on more...it's just this spray gun thing has me busy
[22:58:28] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ end mill
[22:58:41] <robin_sz> there is some sort of pressure trip on the chiller, when it gets too hot it trips on hp
[22:58:53] <jmkasunich> ahh... condenser pressure
[22:59:08] <robin_sz> could be ... I dont understand chillers
[22:59:24] <jmkasunich> condenser fans running well? are there air filters before the condenser? are they clean?
[22:59:31] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich has worked with chillers a lot
[22:59:34] <les> what's to understand?
[22:59:39] <les> it gets cold.
[22:59:42] <les> haha
[22:59:50] <jmkasunich> except when it doesn't
[22:59:50] <robin_sz> well yeah, but if the door isnt open the room gets too hot I think
[23:00:06] <Jacky^> :P
[23:00:08] <robin_sz> theres 3 big 3 phase fans and yeah they go well
[23:00:19] <jmkasunich> yeah... over here such things are rated with 95F inlet air
[23:00:20] <robin_sz> two compressors that draw 18A
[23:00:30] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ found black hole
[23:00:37] <jmkasunich> filter clean? condenser fins clean?
[23:00:39] <robin_sz> and the condensors ...
[23:01:04] <robin_sz> they are about 2.4m long, 1.2m high .. and they look clean .. I belw them out with the airline
[23:01:42] <les> british air? virgin airways?
[23:01:46] <jmkasunich> ok... (we did that on the 10 ton chiller at work, condenser about 1x2 meters... huge dust cloud
[23:01:55] <robin_sz> yeah ...
[23:02:04] <robin_sz> someone said I should pressure wash it
[23:02:19] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ slurp
[23:02:34] <anonimasu> hm
[23:02:35] <robin_sz> theres also a little sight glass thing in the condensor return
[23:02:36] <jmkasunich> dunno about extreme high pressure, don't want to bend the fins
[23:02:42] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[23:02:49] <les> jacky can I have a glass of what you are drinking?
[23:02:53] <jmkasunich> any bubbles in the glass when it is running?
[23:02:57] <robin_sz> fan rather then jet spray I guess
[23:03:03] <robin_sz> umm, hard to say ...
[23:03:14] <Jacky^> les: cambogia
[23:03:19] <Jacky^> bob marley :P
[23:03:19] <les> mmm
[23:03:32] <robin_sz> see, its inside the cabinet which means the fans dotn work effectivelyt with the covers off
[23:03:39] <jmkasunich> oh
[23:03:47] <robin_sz> kinda silly really
[23:03:48] <jmkasunich> ours still works with covers off
[23:03:55] <robin_sz> oh it works
[23:04:11] <robin_sz> but the air comes in the front, not through the condensors
[23:04:47] <jmkasunich> on ours, you remove the filters, all the working parts are right there, then the air goes thru the condensor and finally out the fans
[23:05:00] <jmkasunich> http://www.koolantkoolers.com/index.php?nic=kv
[23:05:22] <jmkasunich> see the one with the angled condenser (right in photo)?
[23:06:00] <robin_sz> uh huh
[23:06:08] <jmkasunich> gotta go... back later (wife calling)
[23:06:31] <robin_sz> 'k
[23:06:38] <anonimasu> laters jmk
[23:06:39] <robin_sz> oh, small ones :)
[23:07:19] <robin_sz> this one is rated 45kw
[23:07:45] <Jacky^> les: I cant' tell you what i'm drinking, but i'm happy :P http://www.roboitalia.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/12775/jacky%5E.jpeg
[23:07:56] <les> looking
[23:08:09] <Jacky^> :))
[23:08:10] <robin_sz> * robin_sz can guess
[23:08:12] <A-L-P-H-A> <shrug>
[23:08:15] <Jacky^> lol
[23:08:16] <A-L-P-H-A> it's just a strip joint.
[23:08:44] <robin_sz> Jacky^: stop typign and and get on with the job
[23:08:56] <Jacky^> ;-)
[23:09:03] <les> looks like a bar?
[23:09:35] <Jacky^> yeah.. hollywood
[23:09:46] <les> oh over here?
[23:10:44] <les> Italy is better isn't it?
[23:11:12] <les> sunny Italy
[23:11:17] <Jacky^> yep :P
[23:11:22] <les> oops, well not right now of course
[23:11:50] <Jacky^> I have one wants of sex that laughed them to the late Middle Ages
[23:11:51] <anonimasu> hm..
[23:11:53] <Jacky^> :P
[23:11:55] <anonimasu> my emc wont start :/
[23:12:09] <robin_sz> normal
[23:12:12] <anonimasu> insmod not found ;)
[23:12:15] <les> haha
[23:12:20] <Jacky^> :D
[23:12:33] <les> I am trying to parse jacky's statement there
[23:12:45] <Jacky^> doh!
[23:12:45] <robin_sz> les: hes typing one-handed
[23:12:51] <les> heh
[23:12:59] <anonimasu> works better now
[23:13:31] <anonimasu> I am re-milling this part
[23:13:39] <anonimasu> tried changing some settings..
[23:13:44] <anonimasu> going to time it
[23:15:32] <les> I must go cook dinner now...I think I will cook scallops with pasta.
[23:15:36] <dpy> hi
[23:15:53] <anonimasu> hm
[23:16:03] <dpy> does anyone here know what the average price of a spindle is (on that I can use for a CNC miller)
[23:16:10] <anonimasu> les: scallops are bad when moldmaking.
[23:16:11] <anonimasu> :D
[23:17:09] <Jymmm> les : Got Garlic?
[23:17:38] <anonimasu> hm..
[23:17:50] <anonimasu> 10 minutes for this part isnt bad..
[23:18:27] <anonimasu> or 12 :)
[23:19:20] <dpy> anyone with prices ?
[23:19:27] <anonimasu> http://www.bojn.net/~an0n/wtest.jpg
[23:22:32] <anonimasu> dpy: no
[23:22:40] <anonimasu> how large of a spindle?
[23:22:41] <Imperator_> dpy: what do you need exactly
[23:22:59] <anonimasu> http://www.bojn.net/~an0n/bp.jpg
[23:23:01] <dpy> well I need
[23:23:05] <anonimasu> and the backplot of the same
[23:23:37] <dpy> 1 with size 400mm, 1 with size 300mm and one with size 200mm
[23:24:12] <anonimasu> I dont understand what you mean
[23:24:16] <Imperator_> you meen ballscrews ?
[23:24:20] <Imperator_> mean
[23:28:06] <Jymmm> bbiab
[23:28:35] <anonimasu> I guess it were my z move speed that made the cut take long
[23:28:50] <anonimasu> it took 6 minutes compared to 27 earlier
[23:28:53] <Imperator_> ok late here
[23:28:56] <Imperator_> ciao
[23:29:19] <anonimasu> later Imperator_
[23:29:29] <Imperator_> see you
[23:31:31] <Jacky^> Jacky^: stop typign and and get on with the job
[23:31:31] <Jacky^> 00:22 < Jacky^> ;-)
[23:31:39] <Jacky^> ooops
[23:31:58] <anonimasu> Jacky^: ?
[23:35:07] <dpy> ball screws or lead screws
[23:35:11] <dpy> anything I can afford
[23:38:21] <anonimasu> dpy: what place in the world are you at?
[23:40:03] <dpy> europe
[23:40:05] <dpy> netherlands
[23:40:10] <dpy> (between germany and UK)
[23:40:12] <anonimasu> ah no idea then
[23:40:19] <anonimasu> I think you can get ISEL stuff from germany
[23:40:24] <robin_sz> nederlands?
[23:40:33] <robin_sz> isnt that where roel is?
[23:40:43] <anonimasu> robin_sz: did you hear I found out the error..
[23:40:46] <dpy> Roel is a dutch name
[23:40:54] <robin_sz> anonimasu: yeah feeds
[23:41:05] <anonimasu> it works way better now
[23:41:34] <anonimasu> it takes about 25 minutes time with a 0.001 scallop limit
[23:41:35] <robin_sz> anonimasu: you use vm?
[23:41:42] <anonimasu> yes
[23:41:51] <robin_sz> ok .. question :)
[23:41:56] <robin_sz> drillign holes
[23:42:07] <robin_sz> I have a iges out of sw
[23:42:17] <anonimasu> yes?
[23:42:17] <robin_sz> with some holes in it I want to drill
[23:42:20] <anonimasu> yes?
[23:42:23] <anonimasu> :D
[23:42:27] <robin_sz> I have tried lots of things ...
[23:42:31] <robin_sz> any clues?
[23:42:34] <anonimasu> yes..
[23:42:38] <robin_sz> oh goody :)
[23:42:42] <anonimasu> make a drill tool.
[23:42:47] <robin_sz> uh huh ...
[23:42:47] <anonimasu> push the circles,
[23:42:52] <robin_sz> push?
[23:42:55] <anonimasu> hole making > drilling
[23:43:05] <anonimasu> set up your parameters..
[23:43:09] <anonimasu> and it should makes nice holes for you
[23:43:15] <anonimasu> ;)
[23:43:26] <robin_sz> what do you mean by "push the circles"?
[23:43:39] <anonimasu> you've exported the sketch right?
[23:43:53] <anonimasu> if not, re-export your part with o's over the holes..
[23:44:06] <anonimasu> with a sketch containing hole locations..
[23:44:15] <anonimasu> :)
[23:44:20] <robin_sz> ive imported the iges model into vm
[23:44:39] <anonimasu> yes, but you need to re-export it from solidworks..
[23:44:42] <robin_sz> i can see the holes ..
[23:44:45] <robin_sz> hmmm ...
[23:44:55] <robin_sz> as an iges?
[23:44:58] <anonimasu> yes
[23:45:04] <robin_sz> with a sketch?
[23:45:07] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:45:10] <robin_sz> weird ...
[23:45:11] <robin_sz> ok
[23:45:16] <anonimasu> err there's a option for it in the options
[23:45:19] <anonimasu> when exporting :)
[23:45:24] <robin_sz> thankyou
[23:45:26] <anonimasu> I cant namt it, since I dont have sw installed
[23:45:30] <anonimasu> but that's how I've done holes
[23:45:38] <robin_sz> thats been bugging me for weeks :)
[23:45:38] <anonimasu> it's payback for helping me do 3d with vm
[23:45:53] <robin_sz> :)
[23:46:04] <anonimasu> lol
[23:46:05] <anonimasu> try it ;)
[23:46:21] <robin_sz> * robin_sz goes to try it
[23:46:32] <anonimasu> this is really cool I can finally crank out 3d stuff easily