#emc | Logs for 2005-07-16

[00:48:19] <Jacky^> umpf :\
[00:48:57] <Jacky^> calculated 20 hours for machining a part ? O_O
[00:49:05] <Jacky^> aaargghh
[00:49:37] <Jacky^> +_+
[00:50:12] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ dream a laser cutter :*
[01:07:34] <Jacky^> hey alex_joni
[01:08:25] <alex_joni> 'lo
[01:14:00] <Jacky^> 20 hours for machine a 3D wood relief of 20x20 cm ?
[01:14:04] <Jacky^> sigh
[01:14:09] <Jacky^> possible ?
[01:16:30] <Jacky^> I must check why the controller of Y axes won't work up to 5 speed.. give following error :((
[01:17:57] <Jacky^> others axes working fast, damn..
[01:19:19] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ surrender
[01:19:27] <Jacky^> Good Night all
[01:29:31] <TomSawyer> [Global Notice] Hi all. It's Friday night at PDPC, and we need your help. We need to test the hyperion ircd release running over on the testnet. This is the code that will soon be running on freenode proper. We need a lot of you, especially from the larger channels, to spend time on the testnet. Host: irc.freenode.net but port 9001 instead of the usual (6667, etc.). Let's go for a nice big record for Size of an IRC Testnet for a FOSS Network[tm].
[01:29:43] <TomSawyer> [Global Notice] If you need any help getting over there, please stop by #freenode-testing .... thanks!
[02:54:46] <Jymmm> With a stepper motor sitting ont the bench - no problem. Pick it up off the bench - it freezes up.
[02:55:07] <Jymmm> gripped tightly in my hand - no problem. Loosen my grip - it freezes up.
[02:55:52] <Jymmm> It's as if when it has a chance to resonate/vibrate it freezes up.
[02:56:12] <Jymmm> Does this sound remotely 'normal'?
[02:57:14] <cradek> are you full stepping?
[02:57:32] <Jymmm> no micro
[02:57:38] <Jymmm> ,
[02:57:50] <cradek> obviously it's not normal
[02:58:01] <cradek> shouldn't be much vibration with microstepping
[02:58:44] <Jymmm> sitting on the bench is enough damping to prevent it from reonating.
[02:59:05] <Jymmm> or a tight grip in the hand too
[02:59:34] <Jymmm> Hell, I can try full/qtr/half if you think that'll make a difference for testing purposes
[03:00:27] <Jymmm> I'm jogging it at "full speed" if that matters
[03:01:19] <Jymmm> I need a quick break... gonna head to the store for some smokes. brb.
[03:01:26] <cradek> I don't know what to suggest, sorry
[03:19:15] <Jymmm> I'm back from the store
[03:19:37] <Jymmm> cradek : Well confirmation that that's not a good thing is helpful
[03:31:37] <anonimasu> hello
[03:34:53] <Jymmm> hi anonimasu
[03:35:14] <anonimasu> what's up?
[03:37:40] <Jymmm> scroll back a bit
[03:39:14] <Jymmm> nope, no difference holding the shaft
[03:39:55] <Jymmm> I have a 6 wire stepper here, I'm wondering if I can hook it up just as a test
[03:40:44] <Jymmm> http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=6410
[03:40:49] <Jymmm> google brought that up
[03:41:47] <anonimasu> ok
[03:41:52] <anonimasu> I have no clue right now
[03:41:54] <anonimasu> I am dead tired :)
[03:42:03] <Jymmm> ditto
[03:42:30] <Jymmm> can 6wire be connected to 4wire driver?
[03:43:55] <anonimasu> no idea
[03:43:57] <anonimasu> :/
[03:45:17] <LawrenceG> yes
[03:46:10] <Jymmm> so sixwire is just CT'ed?
[03:47:19] <LawrenceG> yep... drive ct and one side of each coil
[03:47:36] <Jymmm> ok, will do
[03:48:34] <LawrenceG> insulate spare coil wire... it will get some voltage on it due to transformer action in the motor
[03:49:51] <Jymmm> you're no fun =(
[04:03:46] <anonimasu> night guys
[04:10:09] <fenn> oh man... that's the second time i've done rm blahblah * -rf
[04:10:54] <fenn> oh well, what's another 3 gigs of data huh
[07:08:52] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, how's the machine doing now?
[07:11:17] <Jymmm> sigh...
[07:11:40] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, have they cancelled their telephone numbers, emails, webhosting, and packed up and go VOOOSH?
[07:12:31] <Jymmm> I removed the steppers from the machien and spinned them (jog).... with the motors on the table - ok. pickup and they stall. Tight grip in my hand - ok. Loosen my grip and they stall.
[07:12:51] <A-L-P-H-A> are you sure you have them wired right?
[07:12:57] <Jymmm> oh yeah
[07:13:01] <A-L-P-H-A> Are you sure you have enough amps going to them?
[07:13:05] <A-L-P-H-A> so just shitty motors?
[07:13:06] <Jymmm> yep
[07:13:13] <A-L-P-H-A> uh, what are they rated for?
[07:13:17] <A-L-P-H-A> tell me something good.
[07:13:23] <A-L-P-H-A> don't tellme like 50oz/inch
[07:13:27] <Jymmm> Well, Jeff (xylotex) says that resonance, but I don't think it should be THIS bad.
[07:13:34] <Jymmm> 269 oz
[07:13:40] <A-L-P-H-A> those should be fine.
[07:13:47] <A-L-P-H-A> what speed are you running them at as well?
[07:13:52] <A-L-P-H-A> accelleration.
[07:14:29] <Jymmm> I'm not really sure. I've had big issue getting emc goin, so I dl MAch2 and used that to spin them.
[07:14:54] <Jymmm> I was only getting about 28 IPM on the machien without them stalling.
[07:15:02] <Jymmm> I actually timed it
[07:17:09] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight
[07:17:19] <A-L-P-H-A> emc is a pain to get started.
[07:17:25] <A-L-P-H-A> once done, it's good.
[07:17:48] <Jymmm> Well, four days trying to figure out whats goin on was too much for me....
[07:18:06] <Jymmm> All this time I was thinking that I had the SW misconfigured or
[07:18:30] <Jymmm> that the machien I was using (laptop) was giving issues on the paralellel port, or
[07:18:45] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, EMC is not for the faint of heart, or first timers...
[07:18:47] <Jymmm> I misconfigured something else.
[07:19:03] <A-L-P-H-A> remember how much issue I had setting mine up?
[07:19:14] <Jymmm> somewhat
[07:19:27] <Jymmm> I found bugs in the BDI
[07:19:38] <Jymmm> but paul/ray not aroudn to verufy them
[07:20:11] <Jymmm> not so much with EMC itself, but the distro build
[07:22:24] <Jymmm> As far as the machien tiself goes... They are sending ballscrews, new rails, riser arms, a shitload of bolts (extended length), and at this point gawd only knows what else.
[07:31:30] <A-L-P-H-A> hahahahahahahahaha
[07:31:48] <A-L-P-H-A> I think they're doing the right thing though, to get you as happy as you can be.
[07:31:53] <A-L-P-H-A> even though I'd be pissed...
[07:44:03] <Jymmm> Yeah, the are trying, I have to say that much. But now witht eh motors and I think that maybe even the driver got blown, it's just been VERY VERY stressful and frustrating... murphy is workign overtime.
[07:45:05] <Jymmm> I'm ready to just say fuck it... cut any losses and maybe gabmle in getting a laser engraver at $15K
[07:45:36] <Jymmm> at least it's all inclusive, except for exhause and air.
[07:46:13] <Jymmm> and ironically they just spammed/emailed me tonight about a show coming up at the EOM in LA.
[07:53:47] <Jymmm> It's been a LONG day... G'Night Folks!
[11:09:53] <robin_sz> hey fenn
[11:10:03] <anonimasu> morning
[11:10:11] <robin_sz> morning
[11:10:51] <robin_sz> oh well, if fenn appears .. I'l have the answer to his question in about 20 minutes ...
[11:11:41] <robin_sz> "what happens when a rifle bullet hits 2 pieces of 4mm plate, seperated by 20mm of polystyrene foam
[11:13:10] <anonimasu> ok?
[11:13:20] <anonimasu> nothing?
[11:13:21] <robin_sz> dunno .. find out in 20 minutes :)
[11:13:27] <anonimasu> hehe
[11:13:34] <anonimasu> *curious*
[11:13:34] <robin_sz> I suspect it will not get through
[11:13:53] <robin_sz> it goes through 10mm of plate in a snap
[11:14:20] <robin_sz> we'll see what difference 20mm of polyfoam makes ...
[11:15:23] <robin_sz> so .. what else .. hwo are the tree planters?
[11:15:34] <anonimasu> working great at the moment
[11:15:40] <robin_sz> nice
[11:16:03] <robin_sz> is this the start of a tree seed planting empire?
[11:16:13] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has been having no
[11:16:19] <anonimasu> no, it's to sell the machines
[11:16:31] <anonimasu> so other ones can start empires..
[11:16:46] <robin_sz> well, yeah
[11:16:58] <robin_sz> but you are going to try and sell more
[11:17:07] <anonimasu> yes
[11:17:08] <robin_sz> its not just a one off project?
[11:17:12] <anonimasu> nope
[11:17:13] <robin_sz> excelent
[11:17:20] <anonimasu> production stuff :)
[11:17:23] <robin_sz> nice
[11:17:31] <robin_sz> as a matter of interest ..
[11:17:55] <robin_sz> is this "you" or "you as part of a company"?
[11:18:04] <anonimasu> me as a part of a company
[11:18:09] <robin_sz> ahh, shame :)
[11:18:15] <anonimasu> father's company ;)
[11:18:21] <robin_sz> ahh, thats OK then :)
[11:19:01] <robin_sz> thats close ebough to "working for yourself" as makes no difference
[11:19:28] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[11:19:34] <anonimasu> only trouble is how much I work..
[11:19:42] <robin_sz> well, yeah
[11:19:47] <robin_sz> but that was development
[11:19:54] <robin_sz> production will be easier
[11:20:07] <anonimasu> yeah, now that we finally have both machines running so we can show them off
[11:20:20] <robin_sz> both machines?
[11:20:23] <anonimasu> we found the trouble in one of the machines to be a faulty spring inside of the valves..
[11:20:27] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:20:35] <robin_sz> oh, two tree planters
[11:20:39] <anonimasu> got 2 out and running..
[11:20:42] <robin_sz> right
[11:20:49] <robin_sz> time to build a third for demo
[11:20:50] <anonimasu> err 2 customers that's running
[11:20:58] <anonimasu> one has worked flawlessly
[11:21:00] <anonimasu> the other one has been a hell
[11:21:11] <robin_sz> heh
[11:22:03] <robin_sz> still .. that hell is probably worth more in experience than the perfect one
[11:22:12] <robin_sz> you'll learn more from the tough ones
[11:22:58] <robin_sz> I have several tasks this week
[11:23:21] <robin_sz> including kicking my zinc plating provider
[11:23:35] <anonimasu> oh, :/
[11:23:51] <robin_sz> their 2nd attempt at this job is still crap
[11:23:51] <anonimasu> I have solving the memory issue on the plc..
[11:24:05] <anonimasu> and having some of my vacation
[11:24:05] <robin_sz> some areas not plated ...
[11:24:09] <anonimasu> atleast a day or two
[11:24:12] <robin_sz> I mean, how hard is this?
[11:24:14] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has had vacation all week..
[11:24:18] <robin_sz> nice
[11:24:37] <anonimasu> yeah but I've been working 14 hours a day ;)
[11:24:42] <robin_sz> heh
[11:24:55] <robin_sz> we got a nice fat laser cutting order
[11:25:04] <robin_sz> cut it all a day
[11:25:13] <robin_sz> about 2K worthm delivered
[11:25:15] <anonimasu> nice
[11:25:28] <robin_sz> if we can cut 2K a day, we are going to be rich :)
[11:25:48] <robin_sz> oh, and I let my employee go to "find new opportunities"
[11:26:12] <anonimasu> :
[11:26:15] <anonimasu> nice!
[11:26:16] <robin_sz> nice bloke, tries hard,
[11:26:27] <robin_sz> but, not getting up to speed on the CAD stuff
[11:27:25] <anonimasu> it'll come :)
[11:27:29] <robin_sz> firing people is hard, especially when they are hardworking, reliable etc .. but the CAD stuff was essential .
[11:28:33] <anonimasu> ;(
[11:28:47] <robin_sz> well, yeah .. but .. time to look for a new one
[11:29:30] <anonimasu> yep
[11:29:38] <anonimasu> but finding reloable help is hard :)
[11:29:43] <robin_sz> yes
[11:30:25] <robin_sz> not an easy decision, but the CAD was essential, and he admitted he would prbably never really get the hang of it ..
[11:30:36] <robin_sz> so .. that was that :(
[11:30:56] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:32:04] <robin_sz> shooting competition this afternoon
[11:32:47] <anonimasu> I think I am going to have some sleep later and then machine something
[11:32:57] <robin_sz> butter?
[11:34:15] <anonimasu> hehe
[11:34:17] <anonimasu> maybe bearing mounts
[11:35:07] <anonimasu> well brb, going to have a shower and then sleep a bit
[11:46:27] <anonimasu> I am pondering where to get prototyping foam
[11:56:39] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawsn
[12:16:22] <Jacky^> morning
[12:19:03] <Jacky^> hello fenn , what time is it ? :P
[12:32:50] <anonimasu> 13:43
[13:21:46] <Jacky^> hey anonimasu
[13:25:39] <Jacky^> I bought 13 IC L297 for 10 euro, good price ? :D
[13:35:32] <Jacky^> at 15:30 they reopen the exhibitors, i'm going to see some other thing ;)
[13:36:24] <Jacky^> later..
[14:48:13] <anonimasu> yo :)
[14:56:23] <ValarQ> 'lo
[14:59:26] <anonimasu> what�s up?
[15:01:32] <ValarQ> not much
[15:01:47] <ValarQ> * ValarQ disappears again
[15:02:10] <anonimasu> ok
[16:52:05] <Jymmm> Mornin
[16:54:42] <dan_falck> hi jymm
[16:55:12] <dan_falck> jymmm
[16:55:23] <Jymmm> heh, hi dan_falck
[16:55:38] <dan_falck> did you get your router?
[16:55:52] <Jymmm> I got it alright...
[16:56:00] <dan_falck> well?
[16:57:10] <dan_falck> what's it doing?
[16:57:12] <Jymmm> Now... due to numerous issues, I'm waiting for the ballscrews, relacement rails, bunch of (longer) bolts, riser arms, and gawd only knows what else.
[16:58:24] <dan_falck> ok. what happened?
[16:58:24] <Jymmm> Also... The xyltex driver/steppers I got, well... Just spinning them (jog)... sitting on the table - no problem. pick it up - stalls. Tight grip in my hand - no problem. Loosen my gripa a bit - it stalls. and
[16:58:46] <Jymmm> to top it off, I think the driver board has a blown chip.
[16:59:41] <Jymmm> the acme leadscrews were bent/bowed; X was the worse, Y has a little, and Z slightly. But there is no adj for them.
[16:59:42] <dan_falck> so the frame is a kit?
[17:00:07] <Jymmm> It can in two boxes.... the base frame, and the gantry
[17:00:15] <Jymmm> s/can/came/
[17:00:43] <Jymmm> many screws were only engaging into the threads by 1/8", thus the need for longer bolts.
[17:01:01] <dan_falck> what company?
[17:01:10] <Jymmm> k2cnc.com
[17:01:50] <Jymmm> They have been very willing to halp be resolve the problems. Even extended the money make guarntee to me as well.
[17:01:50] <Jacky^> hello
[17:02:09] <Jymmm> They upgraded from acme to ballscrews.
[17:02:11] <Jymmm> hi Jacky^
[17:02:45] <Jymmm> The customer service is there, Just the QA during production was lacking.
[17:03:00] <dan_falck> small company?
[17:03:13] <dan_falck> like 1 man operation?
[17:03:37] <Jymmm> No, they have a CNC center and a few lathes.
[17:05:42] <Jymmm> What frustrates me now, is the fact that the steppers I bought from Xylotex stall not even being on the machine. He said that was resonanse, but this stalls way too quickly/easily.
[17:06:05] <fenn> jymmm try disassembling/reassembling the motor
[17:06:08] <dan_falck> they probably need a bit of a load on them
[17:06:18] <dan_falck> don't take a stepper motor apart
[17:06:23] <Jymmm> dan_falck : load/no load same thing.
[17:06:33] <dan_falck> the magnets get damaged
[17:06:46] <fenn> damaged?
[17:06:57] <Jymmm> * Jymmm smacks fenn with a cattle prod!
[17:07:12] <fenn> * fenn blocks with eyrglle, sword of elfin craftsman.
[17:07:28] <dan_falck> either you end up banging the magnets against each other (hard to remove because of magnetic pull)
[17:07:45] <Jymmm> fenn yeah, you grip that conductor tighter now!!! Heres some salted water to help!
[17:08:02] <fenn> uh, it's a wooden sword, right :)
[17:08:25] <Jymmm> what you think the slaed water is for
[17:08:28] <Jymmm> salted
[17:09:00] <fenn> hey robin, what happens when you shoot 2 5mm plates with a 20mm foam plate between them?
[17:09:27] <robin_sz> .223 goes through them like it iwas butter
[17:09:35] <fenn> aw
[17:09:38] <Jymmm> See whats weird is one motor I was spinning slowly and it stalled, but ok when fast. And the opposite was true on a different motor.
[17:10:08] <Jacky^> hi robin_sz
[17:10:14] <robin_sz> g'day
[17:10:36] <robin_sz> * robin_sz returns from the local shooting competition :)
[17:10:51] <dan_falck> Jymmm: can you just put the whole setup in a box and ship it back to Xylotek to check out?
[17:10:52] <Jymmm> * Jymmm sees the bandage around robin_sz's foot.
[17:11:10] <Jymmm> dan_falck I emailed him yesterday, well see.
[17:11:34] <robin_sz> now, lets ee ... I wonder who won?
[17:11:55] <Jymmm> that 7yo girl from the country of course.
[17:12:04] <robin_sz> mmmm ... nope.
[17:12:07] <fenn> it's not hard to win a barn-shooting competition
[17:12:09] <Jymmm> blind at that =)
[17:12:51] <robin_sz> * robin_sz does the happy dance
[17:13:00] <Jymmm> congrats robin_sz!
[17:13:01] <Jacky^> :D
[17:13:48] <Jymmm> Have you guys heard of steppers stalling on their own like this?
[17:13:54] <robin_sz> yes
[17:14:11] <Jymmm> defective?
[17:14:17] <robin_sz> at high speeds I have ...
[17:14:38] <robin_sz> mmm, possibly, or poor pulse trains from the controller
[17:14:41] <Jymmm> what's hi speeds
[17:14:50] <robin_sz> 20khz
[17:14:58] <robin_sz> (if microstepped)
[17:15:06] <Jymmm> yeah microstepped
[17:15:18] <cradek> could be a bad winding or driver
[17:15:23] <robin_sz> 10:1?
[17:15:31] <Jymmm> 1/8th
[17:16:02] <robin_sz> so you need to be putting around 16 to 20khz out from the controller i'd guess
[17:16:16] <robin_sz> 2.5K of real pulses
[17:16:28] <robin_sz> 2.5K steps
[17:16:42] <Jymmm> But set the stepper on the table and no problem?
[17:17:05] <robin_sz> should be fine
[17:17:17] <robin_sz> if the pulse train is rough it might stall it ...
[17:17:24] <robin_sz> or if it has a bad winding
[17:17:33] <robin_sz> or not enough current from the drive
[17:17:41] <Jymmm> Well, the reason I was testing it was becasue I was having issue jogging when on the machines.
[17:17:56] <Jymmm> -s
[17:18:07] <robin_sz> you have some headphones?
[17:18:13] <Jymmm> yeah
[17:18:27] <robin_sz> well, hook em up with a resistor to the step output
[17:18:34] <robin_sz> and listen to the pulse train
[17:18:41] <robin_sz> it should be sweet and even
[17:18:46] <robin_sz> smoooooth
[17:18:57] <Jymmm> I have an inductive pickup too
[17:19:06] <Jymmm> (tone tracer)
[17:20:07] <Jymmm> but right now, I can't do shit.... I think the driver got blown.
[17:20:15] <robin_sz> hah
[17:20:25] <robin_sz> probably a duff motor
[17:20:30] <Jymmm> maybe if I disable that one axis, I can check the others.
[17:20:50] <robin_sz> if the motor has an occasional short, it will kill most drives
[17:21:00] <Jymmm> Murphy is working overtime this week.
[17:21:34] <Jymmm> machine, emc, steppers, and now driver. whats next I wonder?!
[17:22:15] <Jymmm> well the only thing next is computer and me w/o a opto isolated breakout board
[17:22:15] <robin_sz> well, wait until you get the new drive
[17:22:33] <robin_sz> and then the same motor kills the next drive
[17:22:53] <Jymmm> oh speaking of that, what happened to geckodrives.com ?
[17:23:00] <robin_sz> nuffin
[17:23:11] <Jymmm> somethign about BMW
[17:23:34] <Jymmm> oh how weird... it's back
[17:23:39] <robin_sz> what are you talking about?
[17:23:59] <robin_sz> he 8still* doesnt have the new drives on there
[17:24:17] <Jymmm> Yesterday, there musta been some weird dns hickup as I was directed to some BMW golf thing
[17:24:55] <robin_sz> http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/g_8133826/Yahoo!+Photo+Album/G202widecan3D2.jpg?grOmo2CBhkco_v3_
[17:25:10] <robin_sz> "short circuit protected" ...
[17:25:29] <Jymmm> aka vampire
[17:25:39] <robin_sz> not quite
[17:25:42] <robin_sz> but close
[17:25:43] <Jymmm> and higher rated
[17:25:49] <robin_sz> the vampire is the 204V
[17:25:58] <robin_sz> no, same rating
[17:25:58] <Jymmm> whats the diff?
[17:26:02] <robin_sz> &a at 80V
[17:26:07] <robin_sz> the diff?
[17:26:12] <Jymmm> higher rating than xylotex I meant
[17:26:15] <robin_sz> it requires no heatsink
[17:26:22] <robin_sz> doesnt need an external C
[17:26:30] <robin_sz> and its short-circuit protected
[17:26:39] <Jymmm> yeah I read the pic you showed =)
[17:26:49] <robin_sz> so .. what rating is the xylotex?
[17:27:15] <Jymmm> 30VDC MAX
[17:27:19] <robin_sz> yuck
[17:27:24] <robin_sz> current?
[17:27:28] <Jymmm> 2.5A
[17:27:34] <robin_sz> that all?
[17:27:37] <robin_sz> price?
[17:27:44] <Jymmm> well sorta kinda could go up to 3.5A
[17:27:52] <Jymmm> ~$150USD
[17:27:58] <robin_sz> so ..
[17:28:02] <robin_sz> its more expensive
[17:28:09] <robin_sz> and worse rated
[17:28:09] <Jymmm> thats a 3 axis board btw
[17:28:14] <robin_sz> oh, 'k
[17:28:48] <robin_sz> well, 2.5A @30V is not enough for me ...
[17:28:56] <Jymmm> I paid $350 for the 3 axis drv, 3 269inoz steppers, and 24VDC switching PS
[17:29:01] <Jymmm> inclu shipping
[17:29:22] <robin_sz> 269oz in .. thats what in proper numbers?
[17:29:46] <Jymmm> Xylotex.com
[17:29:59] <robin_sz> 1.8Nm?
[17:30:21] <Jymmm> no clue
[17:30:35] <robin_sz> so .. this is on a little mill?
[17:30:35] <Jymmm> 1.9
[17:31:06] <Jymmm> not a mill, a router --> http://k2cnc.com/CNC-router-KS-2525_detail.asp
[17:31:10] <Jymmm> brb
[17:32:48] <robin_sz> nice router
[17:38:23] <anonimasu> hey
[17:38:24] <anonimasu> :)
[17:38:59] <anonimasu> hm, that sounds like a _little_ too little voltage and current
[17:39:14] <anonimasu> 8a@48V is what I have now..
[17:39:25] <anonimasu> it's too little I need 100v
[17:39:58] <robin_sz> really?
[17:40:08] <robin_sz> you could just get some modern steppers
[17:41:24] <anonimasu> I?
[17:41:34] <anonimasu> I am not running steppers
[17:41:52] <robin_sz> 'k
[17:41:59] <robin_sz> swervos then :)
[17:42:13] <anonimasu> I think galil makes modern servos..
[17:45:31] <Jymmm> back
[17:46:32] <Jymmm> robin_sz: I thought so too, they are working with me, but they are having to replace a lot of parts.
[17:46:49] <anonimasu> I've disassembled the lathe
[17:46:55] <Jymmm> The QA is lacking, but the customer service is there
[17:47:19] <robin_sz> well, yeah, but to my mind, the product is just not "enough" for the job
[17:47:22] <robin_sz> YMMV
[17:47:42] <anonimasu> robin_sz: what?
[17:48:05] <Jymmm> robin_sz was that to me or anonimasu?
[17:48:16] <robin_sz> anonimasu: 2.5A, 30V stepper, to Jymmm
[17:48:19] <anonimasu> I was curious what robin ment
[17:48:24] <anonimasu> ah yeah
[17:48:40] <anonimasu> 75w
[17:48:46] <robin_sz> if that
[17:48:54] <Jymmm> Well, that's why I was trying to look at geckos yesterday.
[17:49:21] <anonimasu> trying?
[17:49:58] <robin_sz> ah yes .. seems the webserver was duff yesterday
[17:50:02] <Jymmm> with aLL the problems I've had, the router, emc, and now steppers/driver... I'm thinking about goin laser instead (12"x24" @ 35W)
[17:50:06] <robin_sz> the vhost got deleted or something
[17:50:18] <anonimasu> you will still neded steppers..
[17:51:09] <robin_sz> now, laser, thats whre the cost REALLY stack up fast :)
[17:51:32] <Jymmm> $15K USD with warranty, air assist, and cutting table
[17:51:39] <fenn> i saw your $150 cable connectors robin
[17:51:42] <robin_sz> how many watts?
[17:51:50] <robin_sz> fenn: yeah
[17:51:55] <Jymmm> robin_sz 35W
[17:51:59] <robin_sz> fenn: locat 4 @�15 each
[17:52:05] <robin_sz> located
[17:52:10] <robin_sz> need 2 more
[17:52:11] <Jymmm> http://www.versalaser.com/english/index.html
[17:54:28] <robin_sz> 35w wont cut much
[17:54:35] <robin_sz> 1/8th plywood maybe
[17:55:00] <Jymmm> and be slow on photo engraving too... multiple passes
[17:55:29] <robin_sz> for 15k, be *sure* to go and see a demo first
[17:55:32] <Jymmm> I know I really need about 75W, but wattage -vs- cash
[17:55:51] <robin_sz> shold have bought that 100w head I had
[17:56:17] <Jymmm> robin_sz : Well, here's the thing... I've seen demos of the higher machiens. just not this one specifically. That's what REALLY bugs me.
[17:56:31] <Jymmm> I even took video camera with me too.
[17:56:54] <robin_sz> you need to see the machine you will buy .. 35w performs MUCH differently to 75
[17:56:55] <Jymmm> But unless I want to travel to the factory, I can't actually see this specific model in action.
[17:57:06] <robin_sz> like, 1/4 of the speeds and depths
[17:57:19] <robin_sz> its not linear
[17:57:35] <Jymmm> Yeah, they reduced the power to "simulate the 35W" but when I asked for the calculation it was like ummmmmm.
[17:57:47] <robin_sz> yeah
[17:58:14] <Jymmm> these are air cooled, so some are suseptiable to banding.
[17:58:27] <Jymmm> of which I saw on a few things.
[17:58:31] <robin_sz> right
[17:58:53] <robin_sz> variations on temperature leading to variations in output power
[17:59:24] <Jymmm> I took a file with me, spent a few hours running things on what they had and I wans't that pleased. Yet things I've seen are very nice from a laser.
[17:59:42] <robin_sz> well yeah
[17:59:48] <robin_sz> but thats not the point
[17:59:53] <Jymmm> 12x24" isn't all that great either, but more workable than 16"x12"
[17:59:57] <robin_sz> its will they be nice from THAT laser
[18:00:06] <Jymmm> no paying for cutting fees on raw materials
[18:00:37] <anonimasu> what kind of raw materials?
[18:00:38] <anonimasu> you wont be cutting thuck stuff with 35w
[18:00:39] <robin_sz> neither will cut metal either
[18:00:55] <Jymmm> The intent was having the router pay for itself and save up for a laser.
[18:01:25] <fenn> well you've already invested a certain amount of time into the router, why abandon that investment?
[18:01:29] <Jymmm> but I'm just so discouraged with the cnc router this whole week.
[18:01:40] <anonimasu> hm, I would say you wont be making any profit for a while..
[18:01:47] <anonimasu> no matter what router or laser..
[18:01:54] <fenn> take a break from it for a while
[18:02:11] <Jymmm> fenn : I can get my money back on the router. then cut my losses on the $1200 for other things .
[18:02:27] <robin_sz> nah
[18:02:28] <fenn> 1200 on other things?
[18:02:43] <robin_sz> look .. when you bought the router .. you were happy with your choice right?
[18:02:50] <anonimasu> even if you had a cnc mill you would still have learning curve..
[18:03:13] <anonimasu> a real one :)
[18:03:18] <robin_sz> yeah ...
[18:03:22] <robin_sz> nothing has changed
[18:03:27] <Jymmm> $1200 == steppers, drivers, ps, router, router bits, vac, gorilla bench, sound proof enclosure, cabling, etc.
[18:03:37] <robin_sz> you just had a few of the "things that happen" with homebrew CNC
[18:04:09] <Jymmm> True on the learning curve, but I know CorelDraw, and that's all it takes to operate that particular laser.
[18:04:27] <anonimasu> but that laser is not useful.. it's too small..
[18:04:29] <jmkasunich> that and $15,000
[18:04:30] <Jymmm> robin_sz I know, just discouraging when it all happens at once.
[18:04:34] <anonimasu> unless you want to engrave wood.
[18:04:48] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[18:04:57] <robin_sz> it might cut .. 1/8th ply .. slowly
[18:05:19] <Jymmm> the nice thing about laser is it produces FINISHED (flame polished) edges in cast acrylic very nicely.
[18:05:21] <anonimasu> you need lots more of watts..
[18:05:42] <anonimasu> yeah but it's still just acrylic..
[18:05:48] <Jymmm> I got 1/4" but was icky.
[18:06:13] <robin_sz> 1/4" ply?
[18:06:16] <robin_sz> or acryllic?
[18:06:21] <Jymmm> maple
[18:06:39] <robin_sz> burnt and blacened?
[18:06:46] <jmkasunich> and smelly?
[18:06:46] <Jymmm> yep
[18:06:50] <Jymmm> no smell
[18:07:04] <robin_sz> for acryylic you need *good* extraction
[18:07:08] <robin_sz> and lots of money
[18:07:08] <Jymmm> jmkasunich laser have an exhaust system
[18:07:20] <Jymmm> extraction?
[18:07:25] <jmkasunich> a friend bought a turnkey small laser about 10 yrs ago
[18:07:27] <robin_sz> exhaust
[18:07:28] <Jymmm> oh air... yeah
[18:07:47] <jmkasunich> he showed me some wooden parts he made with it, the parts themselves stunk
[18:07:53] <Jymmm> whatever you do NEVER use extruded acrylic
[18:07:53] <jmkasunich> like partly burnt wood
[18:08:06] <Jymmm> use cast acrylis
[18:08:13] <Jymmm> jmkasunich how thick?
[18:08:24] <jmkasunich> not very, 1/8" maybe
[18:08:31] <jmkasunich> also some surface engraving
[18:08:34] <Jymmm> jmkasunich low power laser?
[18:08:50] <jmkasunich> yeah... I don't recall the watts (it was 10 yrs ago) but it wasn't much
[18:08:51] <Jymmm> gawd it looks nice in marble!!!!!!!!!
[18:09:05] <robin_sz> slow though
[18:09:15] <jmkasunich> could cut acrylic or wood, wouldn't even scratch metal, etc
[18:09:27] <robin_sz> so, 50w or so
[18:09:31] <anonimasu> and not thick stuff
[18:09:33] <robin_sz> 70w will mark metal
[18:09:51] <jmkasunich> it made nice edges on plastuc
[18:09:57] <jmkasunich> plastic
[18:10:01] <Jymmm> I wouldn't even try with 70W.... but you can bleach anodized
[18:10:01] <robin_sz> yeah
[18:10:25] <robin_sz> but the cut acryylic tends to condense on the internal parts
[18:10:36] <robin_sz> can gum the thing up pretty quick
[18:10:39] <jmkasunich> mirrors and such?
[18:10:47] <robin_sz> slides, mirrors,
[18:10:50] <robin_sz> racks
[18:10:53] <robin_sz> anything
[18:10:55] <Jymmm> yeah, you have to clean the mirrors often
[18:11:06] <Jymmm> what REALLY will fuck it up is PVC
[18:11:10] <jmkasunich> I never saw this machine, but I seem to recall it was small
[18:11:12] <jmkasunich> tabletop
[18:11:16] <robin_sz> yeah
[18:11:30] <Jymmm> jmkasunich is what I was considering http://www.versalaser.com/english/laser_systems/laser_systems.html
[18:11:38] <Jymmm> the 12" x 24"
[18:11:39] <robin_sz> fenn: where did you see those connectors?
[18:12:03] <jmkasunich> wow, fancy
[18:12:10] <jmkasunich> the one he described was open frame
[18:12:31] <Jymmm> jmkasunich the size of a desktop printer
[18:13:02] <jmkasunich> fixed laser, parallel to x, moving 45 degree mirror on end of X carriage deflects beam parallel to y, another 45 deg mirror on Y carriage deflects beam down
[18:13:20] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[18:13:24] <robin_sz> standard
[18:13:32] <robin_sz> even on BIG lasers
[18:13:46] <robin_sz> right up to 6kw
[18:14:20] <fenn> robin_sz: the link you posted
[18:14:26] <robin_sz> ah
[18:14:39] <robin_sz> thought you might have found some cheap ones for sale :)
[18:14:45] <robin_sz> I have found 4, need 6
[18:15:11] <Jymmm> For around $22K I can get a 20x30" at 45+ watts, just no budget for that.
[18:15:31] <anonimasu> you better stick to the router :)
[18:15:43] <anonimasu> it'll be more useful..
[18:15:44] <anonimasu> that laser is a toy...
[18:15:58] <Jymmm> it cut fabric VEY nice =)
[18:16:02] <Jymmm> very
[18:16:27] <jmkasunich> do you have customers who will pay for cut fabric then?
[18:16:45] <Jymmm> nope, just stating an observation =)
[18:17:10] <Jymmm> at least not THAT small
[18:17:41] <robin_sz> question: you want this for fun, or profit?
[18:17:53] <Jymmm> primarily profit.
[18:17:59] <robin_sz> right
[18:18:06] <robin_sz> so .. step 1. marketing.
[18:18:20] <jmkasunich> when prices start having 5 digits (before the decimal point), fun is hard to justify
[18:18:36] <fenn> tell that to anyone with an airplane :)
[18:18:40] <robin_sz> you do not need to have any equipment to conduct test marketing
[18:19:21] <Jymmm> robin_sz : I did with photo engraving, lots of interest but they all wanted to see a sample.
[18:19:33] <robin_sz> well, rent one then
[18:19:34] <Jymmm> no laser to produce sample with.
[18:19:39] <Jymmm> you can't
[18:19:40] <robin_sz> or ...
[18:19:45] <robin_sz> subcontract it
[18:19:53] <fenn> that's not dishonest in the least
[18:20:06] <jmkasunich> if you're looking at a commercial laser, as the seller to give you some samples
[18:20:18] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[18:20:21] <Jymmm> That I'm acutally considering and I might know someone who might let me do that.
[18:20:33] <jmkasunich> he should be willing... if he helps you make a sale to your customer, it helps him make a sale to you
[18:20:35] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Well, I dont' want their artwork/samples
[18:20:38] <robin_sz> and I'm sure they would put you incontact with a local(ish) owner
[18:21:02] <robin_sz> just send the orders out for engraving, sell them at no profit ...
[18:21:08] <robin_sz> for a month
[18:21:15] <jmkasunich> too local and they become competitors tho
[18:21:16] <robin_sz> then you have a feel for the business
[18:21:31] <robin_sz> well, they dotn get to see the names of the clients
[18:21:35] <robin_sz> its just incoming work
[18:21:41] <robin_sz> and no one turns away work
[18:21:49] <jmkasunich> true, I didn't realize where you were going with it
[18:21:50] <Jymmm> jmkasunich most around here are doing engraving for awards, theres no money in it for them due to the time required to do photo engraving
[18:22:24] <Jymmm> jmkasunich about 45 minutes to engrave a photo
[18:22:37] <Jymmm> 5"x7"
[18:22:51] <robin_sz> so .. you have your answer then
[18:23:03] <robin_sz> see if you can sell that for say, $60
[18:23:21] <robin_sz> then try at $80, $100
[18:23:23] <Jymmm> Wedding photo's is what I was considering
[18:23:31] <robin_sz> find what price the market will stand
[18:23:55] <Jymmm> wedding favors, etc
[18:23:59] <Jymmm> all as a pkg.
[18:24:14] <jmkasunich> eww, consumer market.... hard to make money there
[18:24:16] <robin_sz> well, set up to do it then ... but just dont get the gear
[18:24:27] <Jymmm> hell, if they'll spend $2000 for a dress they'lll olnly wear once.....
[18:24:51] <jmkasunich> oh, you're catering to the MMTB crowd
[18:24:59] <Jymmm> mmtb?
[18:25:04] <jmkasunich> more money than brains
[18:25:07] <Jymmm> well more vanity
[18:25:28] <Jymmm> nobody NEEDS engraving.... it's all vanity.
[18:25:39] <robin_sz> Jymmm: find a book called "No Cash, No Fear" by terry allen
[18:25:41] <jmkasunich> there is potential there... but I could never sell to that crowd
[18:26:05] <Jymmm> jmkasunich I hear ya
[18:26:15] <Jymmm> but I'm hitting the wedding planners instead
[18:26:29] <Jymmm> let them do the sales pitch
[18:26:30] <jmkasunich> lol
[18:26:45] <jmkasunich> ok, folks that use wedding planners are definitely in the mmtb (or mvtb) crowd
[18:27:09] <Jymmm> they never even heard of photo engraving either.
[18:27:58] <jmkasunich> hmmm... I wonder what happens when a laser hits the icing on a wedding cake? crystalized sugar? or just stinky burnt stuff?
[18:28:13] <robin_sz> oh they do better than that already ...
[18:28:14] <fenn> photo-engraved liquor bottle
[18:28:23] <robin_sz> they have inkjets that print onto icing
[18:28:28] <jmkasunich> inject printing
[18:28:39] <anonimasu> hm, you could laser images on ice..
[18:28:41] <jmkasunich> what he said
[18:28:47] <anonimasu> with low enough watt...
[18:28:57] <Jymmm> anonimasu you want to put ice in a $20,000 machien?
[18:29:12] <jmkasunich> what is the depth of field on those lasers?
[18:29:26] <Jymmm> --->| |<----
[18:29:28] <anonimasu> Jymmm: actually if it would bring me money and continous production YES
[18:29:43] <Jymmm> anonimasu ok you try it and let us know
[18:29:52] <fenn> the 3d point cloud in a block of glass looks really really cool
[18:29:56] <jmkasunich> I mean how steep is the light cone? 5deg, 20deg
[18:30:02] <fenn> i dont know how technically difficult it is though
[18:30:03] <robin_sz> you'll still be miles behind the inkjet guys though
[18:30:10] <robin_sz> jmkasunich: 2degrees
[18:30:20] <jmkasunich> fenn: that's what I was thinking, printing inside ice or clear plastic
[18:30:23] <Jymmm> fenn tha'ts a special patented machine.... it's $80,000 and has 4 laser heads on it.
[18:30:27] <jmkasunich> need a wide cone for that
[18:30:59] <jmkasunich> (or multiple lasers that make a spot where the beams intersect)
[18:31:53] <fenn> http://www.bathsheba.com/crystal/process/
[18:32:07] <anonimasu> fenn: that's SLE or whatever it's called
[18:32:45] <robin_sz> Jymmm: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0471415324/qid=1121535982/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-3719857-6301420?v=glance&s=books
[18:32:46] <Jymmm> See the laser allows for VERY little finishing work (that's it's main appeal to me), which is alsso the most labor/man-hours intensive too.
[18:33:09] <fenn> eh? ever heard of a vibratory polisher?
[18:33:27] <Jymmm> fenn you have one?
[18:33:44] <robin_sz> fenn: laser cut acrylic is so well finished .. its like a flame polished edge
[18:34:09] <Jymmm> also very nice on etching glass as well
[18:34:17] <robin_sz> sorta
[18:34:23] <robin_sz> anyway .. BUY THAT BOOK
[18:34:25] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: I'd cut anything that would pay off the machine... :)
[18:34:40] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: a idle machine is a expensive machine..
[18:34:58] <Jymmm> anonimasu you try the water first and lets us know.
[18:35:00] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[18:35:12] <robin_sz> you can write off 5K the moment you unpack it
[18:35:26] <Jymmm> brb
[18:35:46] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: why wouldnt you be able to engrave into ice? with cooling & fume extraction..
[18:35:52] <anonimasu_> and sufficiently low effect..
[18:36:34] <fenn> what about laser-engraved tattoos? :)
[18:36:44] <anonimasu_> ouch
[18:36:45] <anonimasu_> :D
[18:36:48] <jmkasunich> ohhh... liability!
[18:36:51] <anonimasu_> imagine the pain
[18:36:59] <jmkasunich> imagine the lawyers
[18:37:21] <robin_sz> nah, its easy
[18:37:23] <anonimasu_> why would that be illegal?
[18:37:29] <robin_sz> you just need the machine and a hammer ...
[18:37:31] <jmkasunich> not illegal
[18:37:38] <fenn> anything new and unusual might as well be illegal
[18:37:44] <robin_sz> you do the tattoo
[18:38:09] <robin_sz> if the machine screws up, smack em upside the head with the hammer .. dump em on the freeway .. no lawyer hassles
[18:38:10] <jmkasunich> but in this country, whenever anything goes even slightly wrong, the immediate word is "Sue em"
[18:38:48] <anonimasu_> you can have the customers sign no liability forms..
[18:38:55] <robin_sz> hahaha
[18:38:59] <anonimasu_> and let them push the on button themselves..
[18:39:00] <anonimasu_> :)
[18:39:12] <jmkasunich> you aren't in the USA are you anon?
[18:39:18] <robin_sz> no liability forms dont work
[18:39:21] <jmkasunich> the lawyers have taken over here
[18:39:33] <anonimasu_> rent them the tool, and allow them to push START themselves..
[18:39:34] <jmkasunich> personal responsibility is gone, all that left is "sue em"
[18:39:34] <anonimasu_> :)
[18:39:50] <anonimasu_> ;)
[18:40:11] <jmkasunich> it ain't funny when you live in it
[18:40:29] <anonimasu_> protest?
[18:40:41] <jmkasunich> hwo?
[18:40:44] <jmkasunich> oops
[18:40:46] <jmkasunich> how?
[18:40:47] <robin_sz> to whom?
[18:40:51] <fenn> sue the lawyers?
[18:41:02] <jmkasunich> its not just the lawyers
[18:41:16] <robin_sz> its not EVEN the lawyers
[18:41:20] <robin_sz> its the people
[18:41:22] <anonimasu_> yep
[18:41:32] <jmkasunich> there are whole generations of folks for whom taking responsibility for the consequences of their own stupidity is a foreign concept
[18:42:04] <jmkasunich> they figure if something bad happens to them it must be somebody elses fault, and by gawd that somebody should pay them
[18:42:15] <jmkasunich> robin: it is partly the lawyers fault too
[18:42:21] <robin_sz> well, yeah
[18:42:24] <anonimasu_> not really
[18:42:25] <robin_sz> they encourage it
[18:42:30] <Jymmm> fenn these aren't medical lasers, and not being perfered by a licensed person.
[18:42:31] <anonimasu_> yeah that's a bad thing
[18:42:43] <jmkasunich> they take cases on a contingency basis, if you win, I get 33%, if we loose you don't pay
[18:42:49] <Jymmm> the FCc has a HUGE thing about "medical lasers"
[18:42:50] <jmkasunich> so the plantiff has nothing at stake
[18:42:58] <anonimasu_> but it's because the legal system allows it..
[18:43:00] <fenn> Jymmm: i know i was just trying to think of new uses for a desktop laser
[18:43:18] <Jymmm> YOU MUST me a licensed doctor to perform such things.
[18:43:19] <robin_sz> soem courts now ask for "cash up front" as a bond before proessing the action ..
[18:43:24] <Jymmm> or it's a felony.
[18:43:27] <jmkasunich> and the lawyer will take cases he may only have a small chance of winning, cause his costs can be low and he makes out when he wins
[18:43:59] <Jymmm> what I DONT like about lasers is they can't cut on a contour, the material must be flat.
[18:44:13] <fenn> Jymmm: you just need a 5 axis laser
[18:44:19] <anonimasu_> LOL
[18:44:26] <fenn> stick the tube right on a hexapod platform and have at it
[18:44:29] <robin_sz> Jymmm: 5 axis machine can
[18:44:33] <jmkasunich> unless you have a Z axis (for moderately unflat) or 5 axis for seriously unflat
[18:44:40] <Jymmm> you have to focus the beam
[18:44:45] <robin_sz> yeah
[18:44:55] <robin_sz> but ... you should see what tube lasers do
[18:45:10] <fenn> i'm dumb when it comes to laser terminology
[18:45:11] <Jymmm> I have a sample of what an unfocused beam does... looks like melted goo
[18:45:34] <robin_sz> http://www.lasercutting.co.uk/images/tube2.jpg
[18:45:40] <Jymmm> and was only off by 0.5"
[18:45:47] <robin_sz> 0.5" wowow
[18:45:58] <fenn> .5 is a lot in any application
[18:46:06] <robin_sz> I hold 0.7mm +-0.2mm for height
[18:46:09] <Jymmm> well we changeed the material thickness and forgot to refocus
[18:46:24] <robin_sz> oh, so no height sensor?
[18:46:48] <robin_sz> so if the sheet is bowed?
[18:46:49] <Jymmm> it had auto focus, just didn't tell it to refocus
[18:47:26] <Jymmm> oh gawd.... he set the power too high and bowed the acrylic with all the heat beign produced.
[18:47:51] <fenn> Jymmm: you could make custom confetti
[18:47:53] <robin_sz> and the focus tracked the surface OK?
[18:48:13] <Jymmm> there is no tracking.... it's focus at the beginning of the job, then run
[18:48:18] <robin_sz> ick
[18:48:20] <robin_sz> nasty
[18:48:34] <Jymmm> none of the lasers I've seen 'track'
[18:48:44] <robin_sz> mine does
[18:48:57] <Jymmm> and how much does yours cost?
[18:49:08] <robin_sz> oh cheap
[18:49:16] <Jymmm> how many commas?
[18:49:31] <anonimasu_> LOL
[18:49:33] <robin_sz> ummm 2
[18:49:41] <Jymmm> lol, I thought so =)
[18:49:52] <robin_sz> no, wait .. 1
[18:50:08] <Jymmm> but close enough it might as well be two
[18:50:11] <jmkasunich> commas are a pretty coarse measure
[18:50:19] <Jymmm> by the time you add all the accessories
[18:50:19] <anonimasu_> 98,000$;)
[18:50:32] <anonimasu_> or �
[18:50:35] <robin_sz> right, enough ...
[18:50:58] <robin_sz> Jymmm: my point is ... you need to do test marketing before you even thngk of buying a machine
[18:51:06] <Jymmm> all the little things add up REAL quickly.
[18:51:33] <anonimasu_> yeah and if there's no market you will have to build one and that's tough work
[18:51:41] <robin_sz> and then run using a subcontractor until its proven
[18:51:51] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[18:52:12] <Jymmm> robin_sz : I understand. But I also want to be able to say "I did this" at least with some things.... ala cnc router.
[18:52:21] <robin_sz> right ..
[18:52:28] <robin_sz> well finish your router then
[18:52:33] <robin_sz> and dont get distracted
[18:52:46] <robin_sz> NEXT!
[18:53:05] <Jymmm> I will, just so so discouraging as of last night. I'm just dead in the water this weekend.
[18:53:05] <jmkasunich> LOL
[18:53:17] <robin_sz> well, go shoot someting then
[18:53:27] <anonimasu_> Jymmm eveyone has had such moments :)
[18:53:46] <jmkasunich> so take a break, rethink things or something... but don't go out and spend tons of money on a laser just becaused you're having a setback
[18:53:58] <Jymmm> You know, that's not a bad idea.... I haven't hit the range in a while. I think I have at least 200 rds, could buy more I suppose.
[18:54:33] <anonimasu_> you should do that :)
[18:54:36] <Jymmm> jmkasunich : I want a laser, that's for sure. but I want the RIGHT laser for the job.
[18:54:38] <robin_sz> or a deer :)
[18:54:59] <Jymmm> and be able to justify the $30,000 purchase.
[18:55:18] <Jymmm> ok, hot lead this weekend it is!
[18:55:31] <robin_sz> did you read Joes book on sherline.com?
[18:55:42] <Jymmm> actually, yeah I did.
[18:55:56] <robin_sz> and what *eaxactly* did he say about buying equipment?
[18:56:09] <Jymmm> I dont recall.
[18:56:39] <robin_sz> it was a strong message in the book
[18:56:51] <robin_sz> dont buy new
[18:56:51] <robin_sz> buy second user
[18:56:54] <robin_sz> and use your skills to make it work
[18:57:33] <robin_sz> your skills + 2K "broken" laser engraver = dumbass + 30K new laser engraver
[18:57:56] <Jymmm> The big difference is I have a computer/electronics background, not a machinest one. I may not know the differnce between slavagable equip and scrap metal.
[18:58:39] <robin_sz> well, the laser sales guys will have you for breakfast then :)
[18:58:45] <robin_sz> get clued up
[18:58:52] <robin_sz> and get ahead of the game
[18:58:55] <Jymmm> lol, well THAT I can get a clue about.
[18:59:16] <Jymmm> I did do optics/lasers years ago (mostly communication lasers)
[19:00:12] <Jymmm> but I sure am learning fast the cavets of rails, bearings, steppers etc
[19:00:20] <jmkasunich> I wonder how powerfull this is: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/Detail.asp?PartNum=01-673-106
[19:00:54] <Jymmm> laser bible http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/laserfaq.htm#faqtoc
[19:02:00] <robin_sz> Jymmm: one other thing ... rememember .. the big shiny laser guys drive big shiny cars .. they are very succesful at selling lasers
[19:02:03] <robin_sz> BUT
[19:02:12] <robin_sz> rememebr ... thats not the same game
[19:02:19] <robin_sz> they sell lasers .. they are good at it
[19:02:32] <robin_sz> their business is not laser engravign photos ..
[19:02:35] <Jymmm> http://www.nilno.com/laser_intro/index.html
[19:02:44] <robin_sz> that may well be an oversupplied dead end market for all I know
[19:03:08] <robin_sz> dotn confuse the sucess of peopel selling laser systems with people using laser systems
[19:03:13] <jmkasunich> exactly... the guy selling something makes his money by selling it, not by using it
[19:03:14] <robin_sz> it aint the smae gam at all
[19:03:39] <Jymmm> They market primarily to trophy/engraving shops... much easier to type on a computer than setting up typsettings
[19:03:58] <robin_sz> yeah
[19:04:14] <robin_sz> $10 trophy, + 5 minutes engravign = $50
[19:04:27] <Jymmm> I cold called a few trophy shops in the area... CUT THROAT BUSINESS... one guy was angry that laser engravers came on the market
[19:04:36] <robin_sz> tough
[19:05:23] <robin_sz> all business is a cut throat business .. no easy games in town
[19:05:25] <Jymmm> one said they did $3M/yr during dot com days, and now $150K/yr today. But this one shop does everything from engraving to coffee mugs
[19:07:43] <Jymmm> The IDEA of a laser is very appealing to me, maybe why it always lingers in the back of my head. But then I see the price tag for what it has and the appeal turns slightly grey. But I'll just take it one step at a time.
[19:07:46] <robin_sz> 150k ... hmm .. not enough to live on
[19:07:56] <Jymmm> Hey is there a twelve step program for CNCers???
[19:08:03] <robin_sz> that was turnover?
[19:08:18] <Jymmm> net profit
[19:08:24] <robin_sz> oh, thats Ok then ..
[19:08:35] <robin_sz> including labor?
[19:08:54] <robin_sz> how many staff?
[19:08:54] <Jymmm> I didn't ask. he said net profit so I'd suspect so.
[19:09:21] <Jymmm> when cold calling competition, I dont push it =)
[19:09:29] <robin_sz> heh
[19:09:43] <robin_sz> ok enough
[19:09:48] <robin_sz> must go ...
[19:09:53] <Jymmm> hasta
[19:09:54] <robin_sz> children to steam clean
[19:10:00] <Jymmm> firehose
[19:18:35] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/rtapi/examples/Makefile: minor tweak to get things to work on BDI-2.xx
[19:19:27] <jmkasunich> ok compile farm, do your thing ;-)
[19:20:58] <Jymmm> lol
[19:21:15] <Jymmm> jmkasunich do the 'minor things' include the distro?
[19:21:58] <jmkasunich> no, this was a one line tweak to a single makefile... it was failing to make on the BDI-2.xx compile farm slot, even though it worked on the other three slots
[19:22:18] <jmkasunich> (The other three are BDI-TNG, BDI-Live, and BDI-4.20)
[19:22:54] <Jymmm> Ah, ok I found minor issues with BDI 420 and the apt-get that's listed in the wiki
[19:23:02] <jmkasunich> url?
[19:23:28] <jmkasunich> note that BDI issues need to be handled by Paul, and can only be fixed in the next release
[19:23:30] <Jymmm> wiki.linuxcnc.org search for debian
[19:23:49] <Jymmm> Yeah, I figured as much, but paul aint around to bitch at =)
[19:24:20] <jmkasunich> ok, I'm at the main wiki page, no sign of debian
[19:24:40] <Jymmm> drop to the bottom of page, search for debian
[19:25:01] <jmkasunich> "DebianInstall"?
[19:25:06] <Jymmm> yeah
[19:25:23] <jmkasunich> that page says last edited March 13 by paul
[19:26:31] <Jymmm> I installed debian sarge. then followed those insturctions. But when I booted up I had a error msg that said something along the lines of ... "Hardware Abstraction LAyer.... you're kernel can't do something blah blha blah"
[19:26:33] <jmkasunich> <Jymmm> "Ah, ok I found minor issues with BDI 420 and the apt-get that's listed in the wiki".. I read that to mean that YOU listed the ISSUE in the wiki
[19:26:54] <Jymmm> No, the wiki page is locked.
[19:27:22] <jmkasunich> not true, anybody can edit, but
[19:27:42] <jmkasunich> gotta log in first: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
[19:28:43] <Jymmm> ah, well I didn't want to muck with someone elses work either.
[19:29:18] <jmkasunich> OK... anyway, that page has nothing to do with BDI...
[19:29:20] <Jymmm> and i didnt know if that was the right place to say something anyway.
[19:29:41] <jmkasunich> that is for converting a vanilla Debian install (I think)
[19:29:56] <Jymmm> That's how I read it
[19:30:10] <jmkasunich> the instructions for getting a BDI-4.20 box ready to compile EMC2 are here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_Install
[19:30:13] <Jymmm> But I didn't know if the issues I had were operator or instructions
[19:30:51] <jmkasunich> I can't help.. I've never done anything with a vanilla deb (or vanilla anything, I've always used BDIs, first TNG and now 4.20)
[19:31:49] <Jymmm> I wiped the hdd and grab a 420 iso and installed that. had issues with that a bit too, again not perse emc related.
[19:33:48] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. Just a reminder. We need your help checking out the new code that's going to be running here on freenode in a few days. Pick up those channels, put up a sign, fold up those tents and come see us on the testnet. :-D It's irc.freenode.net but it's port 9001.
[19:33:58] <lilo> [Global Notice] For help getting there, please stop by #freenode-testing .... thanks!
[19:35:05] <jmkasunich> yay! BDI-2.18 worked... now just gotta wait and see if it broke any of the others
[19:35:28] <Jymmm> woo hoo
[19:43:11] <Jymmm> just took apart and reassembled an old stepper motor I had laying around... kinda interesting.
[19:46:08] <Jymmm> I took pics and everything =)
[19:54:06] <robin_sz> oh Jymmm ...
[19:54:47] <robin_sz> you know I said "well lease one then" and you said "no one does it"
[19:54:50] <Jymmm> jes?
[19:55:15] <Jymmm> well nobody rents
[19:55:22] <robin_sz> http://www.versalaser.com/english/laser_systems/laser_systems.html
[19:55:39] <robin_sz> see at the top of thepage were it says "Leasing starts at $180/month (OAC)"
[19:57:21] <Jymmm> Well, I sorta like the idea of 'subcontracting', no commitment if it doens't turn out as expected, market wise. For all I know it's a seaonal thing.
[19:57:30] <robin_sz> yep
[19:57:53] <robin_sz> or lease it .. and if it doesnt work out, send it back
[19:58:21] <Jymmm> It's just ironics... you have to have the laser to produce product samples. and you need to sell product ot have the machine! lol
[19:58:28] <Jymmm> it's like a 24 month lease.
[19:58:56] <robin_sz> the company shold run you off some samples to your photos for marketing purposes, even if you have ot pay for them
[19:59:33] <robin_sz> anyway, I must go again
[19:59:48] <robin_sz> oh, one other good book
[20:00:07] <robin_sz> "the beermat entrepeneur" by mike southon ..
[20:00:09] <Jymmm> They let the reps do that. At one company well lets just say his sales skills are simular to what you would find on a car sales, but no technical skills in relation to the machien he's selling.
[20:00:21] <robin_sz> so?
[20:00:42] <Jymmm> So, when I took a photo I have in, he couldn't show me it engraved.
[20:00:57] <Jymmm> it turned out horrible
[20:01:07] <Jymmm> in both acrylic and maple
[20:01:27] <robin_sz> oops
[20:01:39] <anonimasu_> leasing is pretty ok
[20:01:48] <robin_sz> well, perhaps it can only make certain images engrave OK
[20:02:03] <robin_sz> perhaps its "fussy" on image content
[20:02:10] <Jymmm> the funny thing is he had at least 100 samples in his showroom.
[20:02:36] <Jymmm> I took video of ALL of it...
[20:02:52] <jmkasunich> perhaps he's just a dumbass and can't operate the machine... the 100 samples were made by somebody else
[20:03:11] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Actually they were... the factory.
[20:03:21] <jmkasunich> (or, worst case situation, the sampels were made by another machine and they are lying about the capabilities of the one they sell)
[20:03:24] <Jymmm> but he never said that when I asked.
[20:03:27] <robin_sz> well, sorta forget the technical side
[20:03:32] <robin_sz> its almsot unimportsant
[20:03:48] <robin_sz> you can engrave images .. if they had lots
[20:03:58] <robin_sz> now .. heres the make or break question
[20:03:59] <Jymmm> robin_sz I was seeing banding/inperfections he couldn't explain why.
[20:04:06] <robin_sz> can you sell them
[20:04:23] <robin_sz> Jymmm: variations in laser poutput power, no optical feedback
[20:04:27] <Jymmm> with what I was seeing first hand, I wouldn't sell that.
[20:04:38] <Jymmm> that was just shit.
[20:04:55] <robin_sz> wow .. he was not a good salesman then
[20:04:56] <Jymmm> and it was a larger machien than what I was considering.
[20:05:05] <robin_sz> he was an *EXCELLENT* salesman
[20:05:21] <robin_sz> top flite, one of the very best
[20:05:28] <Jymmm> But I can spot BS 10 miles away.
[20:05:37] <robin_sz> shrug ...
[20:05:41] <anonimasu_> heh
[20:05:46] <anonimasu_> ^_^
[20:05:50] <robin_sz> so you went along and saw a machine that produced shit ...
[20:05:57] <jmkasunich> then how come you aren't running (not walking, running) away from this company? ;-)
[20:06:05] <robin_sz> and you *still* want to buy one even though you cant afford it
[20:06:16] <Jymmm> different company.
[20:06:20] <robin_sz> now .. thats what I call an excellent sales pitch :)
[20:06:36] <Jymmm> I saw three different ones
[20:06:45] <Jymmm> Universal, Epilog, and GC
[20:07:20] <Jymmm> Epilog/GC use Coherant tubes... known for banding, but good features.
[20:07:57] <Jymmm> Universal ahs betteer tubes, but more pricey. The universal rep IS knowledgable and will coem onsite for trining.
[20:08:10] <Jymmm> and setup
[20:09:00] <robin_sz> right ...
[20:09:05] <Jymmm> Epilog has a printer server, Universal requires a dedicated computer (the desktop laser does)
[20:09:12] <robin_sz> so forget the hardware side .. its sorted
[20:09:20] <robin_sz> just a question of money
[20:09:26] <robin_sz> now .. CAN YOU SELL IT?
[20:09:36] <robin_sz> thats the biggy
[20:09:57] <Jymmm> I dont know till I have samples to show folks. that's been their biggest question.
[20:10:06] <robin_sz> even then ...
[20:10:16] <Jymmm> and I dont feel right showing the facotry produced sampels.
[20:10:26] <robin_sz> well, commission some samples out of your own pocket then
[20:10:46] <robin_sz> or get them to do say 6 for you
[20:11:13] <Jymmm> Yeah, I'm going to contact one of the local shops again and see if they'll be up to subcontracting.
[20:11:25] <Jymmm> very nice lady.
[20:11:33] <robin_sz> they dont need to lnow its subcon
[20:11:45] <robin_sz> its just sales
[20:12:04] <robin_sz> put 5% on it and see if you can sell 6 or 10 of them
[20:12:10] <Jymmm> well, if I bring in the artwork, they might discount it due to qty.
[20:12:23] <robin_sz> possibly
[20:12:40] <robin_sz> in signmaking there are lots of subcons that do just that .. subcontract signwork
[20:12:45] <robin_sz> so yeah .. try it
[20:12:46] <Jymmm> or if I bring my own material, get it muc cheaper
[20:12:53] <robin_sz> doubtful
[20:13:22] <robin_sz> bet you pay 3 times what they pay for material
[20:13:29] <Jymmm> well, I can get colored acrylic, but from the big houses
[20:13:55] <robin_sz> anyway .. concentrate on generating sales and sub it out .
[20:13:55] <Jymmm> If it's plastic, I know where to go.
[20:14:04] <robin_sz> buy that book I told you about
[20:14:08] <robin_sz> sales are the key
[20:14:19] <robin_sz> everyting else is just expenses
[20:14:24] <Jymmm> yeah, I'lll probably have down time this week due the driver being blown.
[20:15:52] <Jymmm> wb fenn
[20:17:32] <fenn> yay
[20:17:49] <fenn> i like that nilno site.. esp. the movie of the wingnut jogging the xy table around
[20:18:04] <fenn> should post it on the EMC wiki :)
[20:19:04] <fenn> http://nilno.com/laser_dir/closed_controller 023.avi
[20:21:06] <anonimasu_> :D
[20:58:36] <Jymmm> fenn you just like his singing, admit it!
[20:58:48] <anonimasu_> IT ROCKS!
[20:59:36] <Jymmm> well, I suspect better that trying to sounds stupid and narrate
[20:59:41] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: have a look at the 100w laser..
[20:59:50] <Jymmm> anonimasu which one?
[20:59:52] <Jymmm> where?
[20:59:55] <anonimasu_> http://www.nilno.com/laser_intro/
[20:59:56] <Jymmm> url?
[21:00:01] <Jymmm> oh
[21:00:04] <Jymmm> CO2 ?
[21:00:34] <anonimasu_> yeah
[21:00:37] <fenn> i thought lasers heated up the workpiece.. he just picks up the piece right off the table with his bare hand as soon as it gets done
[21:00:52] <Jymmm> oh yeah, it's quick
[21:01:44] <Jymmm> anonimasu ok, what about the laser?
[21:01:56] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: that's a 100watt lase.
[21:01:56] <anonimasu_> r
[21:02:04] <Jymmm> yeah, and?
[21:02:30] <fenn> with gas assist; important side-note
[21:02:46] <Jymmm> right, it's not a sealed CO2 laser.
[21:02:58] <anonimasu_> 100 watt average and 250 watt peak
[21:03:20] <fenn> er, no it's water cooled, but the beam goes through an oxygen nozzle
[21:03:24] <anonimasu_> he's using the gas for cutting I think..
[21:03:33] <fenn> yeah the oxygen helps to burn the steel
[21:03:33] <anonimasu_> yeah
[21:03:59] <Jymmm> no it's an inerht gas, prevents from overburning
[21:04:15] <anonimasu_> oxygen is not inert.. :)
[21:04:20] <Jymmm> thats what air/gas assist does.
[21:04:29] <Jymmm> O2 isn't
[21:04:39] <fenn> there's probably different reasons to use different gases
[21:04:49] <anonimasu_> well, it depends on what you cut..
[21:05:08] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: my tip is to build the router, then make parts for a laser table :)
[21:05:09] <Jymmm> There is gas in the tube... either sealed or flowing. Then theres air/gas assist which helps the work from buringint oo much
[21:05:15] <anonimasu_> it's sealed..
[21:05:21] <anonimasu_> it says so on the page..
[21:05:24] <fenn> i can see how an inert gas would help to keep your acrylic part from melting into goo
[21:05:29] <Jymmm> flowing is better, but more maintance.
[21:05:36] <anonimasu_> and snatch a powerful laser off ebay :)
[21:05:44] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: would that idea be bad?
[21:05:50] <Jymmm> fuck ebay.... I found mediacal lasers.
[21:05:55] <fenn> yeah since he's already got the router
[21:05:59] <anonimasu_> patience..
[21:06:00] <anonimasu_> :D
[21:06:07] <fenn> Jymmm: why not get your router working, then put a laser head on it?
[21:06:11] <Jymmm> you have to rememmber I posted that link, just been a while since I saw it
[21:06:19] <Jymmm> fenn optics
[21:06:19] <anonimasu_> yeah..
[21:06:25] <anonimasu_> that's probably the best
[21:06:25] <Jymmm> not rigid enough
[21:06:30] <fenn> bah
[21:06:34] <anonimasu_> holy f*ck
[21:06:37] <fenn> you only need to be within like .2mm
[21:06:53] <Jymmm> bullshit... you have to focus that laser.
[21:07:01] <anonimasu_> do you have any idea how much more force it takes to cut stuff with a endmill..
[21:07:22] <Jymmm> this router is not rigid enough.
[21:07:30] <fenn> your laser won't be cutting fast enough to worry about needing high enough accels to keep up with it
[21:07:47] <fenn> you could make it out of toothpicks, and run it with a really low acceleration
[21:07:55] <fenn> rigidity is not an issue in laser-cutting
[21:08:19] <Jymmm> fenn have you done it before?
[21:08:23] <anonimasu_> unless you are working at the speeds of the larger commercial machines..
[21:08:24] <fenn> ditto?
[21:08:35] <Jymmm> fenn have you done it before?
[21:08:38] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: it seems you are making up problems..
[21:09:16] <fenn> * fenn is going to go gorge himself to make up for his inadequate, boring life.
[21:09:26] <fenn> spicy potatoes, here i come!
[21:09:29] <Jymmm> I went thru three different machines adn I saw what happens. This router that I have is not rigid enough, due to virbrations and bouncing a beam on six different mirrors
[21:09:58] <anonimasu_> where would the vibrations come from?
[21:10:02] <Jymmm> that lil deaktop one is welded steel tubing
[21:10:14] <Jymmm> with a purrty cover on it.
[21:10:33] <anonimasu_> fine.. just buy it if it's "great"
[21:10:37] <anonimasu_> bbl..
[21:16:21] <Jymmm> Here you go... THIS is a "home built" laser tube, and laser cutting table. http://www.emissiontechnologies.com/index.htm He seels both of them in kits.
[21:17:38] <Jymmm> I did a LOT of homework when I was in the market for a laser engraver.
[21:19:08] <anonimasu_> and?
[21:22:01] <fenn> tomp explained to me that the reason positioning devices for processes like EDM/laser are very big+thick
[21:22:26] <fenn> is that they need to keep down thermal expansion over a large distance by increasing the mass of the beams/elements of the structure
[21:23:05] <fenn> but you aren't doing parts with that kind of accuracy, so you dont need to worry about it
[21:23:08] <jopingo> hello
[21:23:14] <fenn> hi
[21:24:06] <jopingo> wahat is the best way to get startet with emc2 ?
[21:24:22] <jopingo> any preferences ?
[21:24:23] <fenn> install bdi-4.20 and follow the instructions here:
[21:24:33] <anonimasu_> jopingo: it's to download the BDI iso
[21:25:03] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?HowToTryEMC2
[21:25:40] <jopingo> thanks fen
[21:29:42] <jopingo> ok, i go with the bdi-4.20 :) i tried emc2 from cvs with some rather frehs rtai snapshot. but cant get morew then unkonwn symbols when launchinf emc.run :)
[21:30:12] <fenn> yeah there is a lot of weird issues with rtai in general.. it is still quite experimental
[21:30:29] <fenn> unstable i mean
[21:30:52] <fenn> i think rtai 3.2 magma with the adeos patch on 2.6.10 is supposed to work
[21:30:54] <jopingo> fenn: unstables is ok for me :) aslong as i can run it
[21:30:57] <jopingo> hmm
[21:31:06] <jopingo> adeos...
[21:31:15] <fenn> 2.6.12 doesnt work yet.. paul/alex/john are working on it
[21:31:25] <jopingo> i need to read up on this a little more. i dont get the rtai / adeos thing by now
[21:31:39] <fenn> rtai is the real time "nanokernel"
[21:31:51] <jopingo> and adeos ?
[21:31:51] <fenn> adeos is the code that lets the linux kernel talk to rtai, i think
[21:31:59] <jopingo> hehe :) thanks
[21:32:15] <fenn> but you have to put more than just adeos into the linux kernel? i forget, it's been a while
[21:32:21] <jopingo> so adeos is no os at all :)
[21:32:33] <fenn> see http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FC3 for what I did to get it running on my system
[21:32:34] <anonimasu_> yes
[21:32:38] <anonimasu_> you have :)
[21:32:41] <anonimasu_> to do that
[21:33:18] <jopingo> fenn: hehe, made debian packages ? :)
[21:34:03] <fenn> that's for an rpm-based distro
[21:34:11] <fenn> so, i guess i could make rpms
[21:34:14] <fenn> but i've never done that before
[21:34:29] <fenn> .debs would be nice though
[21:34:53] <fenn> maybe you could do that once you get it working? :)
[21:35:00] <fenn> (hint hint)
[21:35:06] <jopingo> fenn: ill follow the report you made :) sucking the bdi costs much too much time :)
[21:35:18] <fenn> ok
[21:35:33] <jopingo> thank you very much ) gotta go now. compiletime :)
[21:36:13] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ is drawing a impeller
[21:39:49] <anonimasu_> although not a full 3d one
[21:40:05] <anonimasu_> one I can mill without rotary/tilt
[21:42:55] <Jymmm> anonimasu and I part edges to look like ------------------------ not -------------------,----------------/\/\/\-------- from vibration. This router is just not that rigid to toss on 6 mirrors and a lens and hold everything that still.
[21:43:42] <Jymmm> If I had a free/cheap optics and a test laser (keychain) sure, I'd try it.
[21:44:16] <anonimasu_> what?
[21:44:22] <Jymmm> but just look at an optics table... sometimes it's worse than a granite table for flatness, stiffness.
[21:44:45] <anonimasu_> you can always machine/build a table..
[21:44:49] <anonimasu_> and buy a GOOD laser.. :)
[21:45:06] <Jymmm> no, buy a cheap laser... used and flowing.
[21:45:09] <anonimasu_> if you have a mill/router you can do pretty much anything
[21:45:27] <Jymmm> right, but you guys said toss a laser on THIS router.
[21:45:36] <anonimasu_> yes, that's a option..
[21:45:39] <jopingo> hehe, fast compile ;)
[21:45:50] <anonimasu_> but if that is so impossible, just build a table with the router..
[21:45:53] <Jymmm> That's what I'm saying, it's not rigid enough.
[21:46:01] <anonimasu_> once you have a cnc machine you can make parts for your machine..
[21:46:20] <anonimasu_> if I had access to a cnc mill my retrofit would have taken 3 days..
[21:46:24] <Jymmm> anonimasu right, but did you look at that laser tube? it's 50" long by itself
[21:46:24] <anonimasu_> or a router..
[21:46:31] <anonimasu_> the one on the page?
[21:46:36] <anonimasu_> just quickly
[21:46:36] <Jymmm> yeah
[21:47:00] <Jymmm> http://www.emissiontechnologies.com/index.htm
[21:47:31] <anonimasu_> 1,6m
[21:47:36] <anonimasu_> yeah tough to mount...b
[21:47:43] <anonimasu_> you coud mount it on the side of the gantry..
[21:47:54] <Jymmm> mounting I'm not worried about... it's protecting it
[21:47:56] <anonimasu_> have one mirror / \
[21:48:03] <jopingo> now i remember, i had some colieerror with emc2 yesterday... some redefinition of strcmp (/opt/cnc/src/emc2/src/hal/hal_lib.c:57, include/asm/string.h:100) wich i altered, i removed the strcmp function entirely from hal_lib.c. that lets it finish compiling, but it may be stupid to do :) anyone a hint ?
[21:48:04] <Jymmm> then you add another mirrors
[21:48:30] <anonimasu_> you wouldnt want 1m sticking up ;)
[21:48:44] <Jymmm> and you wouldn't want a moving tube either
[21:48:49] <anonimasu_> or 1,6m
[21:48:57] <Jymmm> it's water cooled.
[21:49:20] <anonimasu_> not really a problem :)
[21:49:25] <anonimasu_> just makes it tricky
[21:49:38] <Jymmm> it's already tricky enough.
[21:49:49] <anonimasu_> well you can do as you like :)
[21:49:50] <Jymmm> http://www.emissiontechnologies.com/XY/Finished/MVC-015F.JPG
[21:49:51] <jopingo> hmm, i shoukd tell it not too include include/asm/string.h at all
[21:50:02] <anonimasu_> and you probably will in the end..
[21:50:18] <anonimasu_> hm, maybe I should order a tube :D
[21:50:21] <fenn> jopingo: what was the error?
[21:50:38] <Jymmm> anonimasu I know his supplier, it's in China
[21:50:43] <jopingo> /opt/cnc/src/emc2/src/hal/hal_lib.c:57: error: redefinition of `strcmp' - include/asm/string.h:100: error: `strcmp' previously defined here
[21:50:52] <anonimasu_> ok, are thoose good tubes?
[21:51:08] <anonimasu_> I would enclose it in something, seems fragile that way
[21:51:20] <anonimasu_> but, I think you have more use for a router..
[21:51:26] <anonimasu_> then you would have with a small laser :)
[21:51:37] <Jymmm> Oh I can think of many other things todo with a laser.
[21:51:38] <anonimasu_> or well small/tiny
[21:51:58] <Jymmm> if i get a laser I want 100watts+
[21:52:02] <Jymmm> or close to it
[21:52:13] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: that's my point...
[21:52:19] <Jymmm> http://www.emissiontechnologies.com/XY/Video/MVC-001V.MPG
[21:52:23] <Jymmm> danit
[21:52:32] <anonimasu_> buy a router, and build a table.. and snatch a good laser with the power you want..
[21:52:39] <Jymmm> oh thats the right link
[21:52:50] <anonimasu_> or well build your router :)
[21:53:04] <Jymmm> router to pay for laser =)
[21:53:18] <Jymmm> http://www.emissiontechnologies.com/xy.htm
[21:53:19] <anonimasu_> more like router to make laser..
[21:53:20] <fenn> jopingo: okay, i don't know why __HAVE_ARCH_STRCMP isn't defined, but if it doesn't work you'll be hearing about it again, right?
[21:53:20] <anonimasu_> :)
[21:53:37] <anonimasu_> you wont be able to keep up with the machine shops.. in terms of accuracy/speed..
[21:53:52] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ considered it before
[21:54:05] <Jymmm> look at that video
[21:54:09] <anonimasu_> yep
[21:54:18] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ isnt close to the speeds he wants
[21:54:27] <Jymmm> who wants?
[21:54:30] <anonimasu_> I want..
[21:54:38] <anonimasu_> I am cutting at 2000mm/min
[21:54:49] <anonimasu_> but I crave for 8m/min ;)
[21:54:51] <Jymmm> ah, well theres another company I know that makes those
[21:54:55] <fenn> Jymmm: robin said that the emissiontech laser was a homebrew tube.. industrial units of similar capacity are much smaller since they are water cooled
[21:55:00] <Jymmm> VERY nice ppl to deal with too
[21:55:18] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: the commercial machines does that kind of speeds easily..
[21:55:22] <Jymmm> fenn the tube comes from china.
[21:55:32] <jopingo> fenn: i dont understand what you want to tell me :) i hear nothing more from this point but the usual followups: make[3]: *** [/opt/cnc/src/emc2/src/hal/hal_lib.o] Error 1 make[2]: *** [_module_/opt/cnc/src/emc2/src/hal] Error 2
[21:56:11] <Jymmm> fenn : 50Watt tube, power supply and shipping from China is $930.
[21:56:36] <anonimasu_> but I dont know what I'd do with a laser.. maybe haunt my neighbours..
[21:57:06] <Jacky^> :)
[21:57:11] <fenn> jopingo: either comment out strcmp in hal_lib.c or don't include asm/include/string.h
[21:57:34] <fenn> jopingo: if that doesn't work then we'll have to dig deeper
[21:57:51] <anonimasu_> I wonder if I should machine this impeller tonight or tomorrow
[21:57:57] <jopingo> fenn: the first i did, and have a non running emxc2 install from yesterday :) the later im gonna do now
[21:58:20] <fenn> jopingo: what happens when you comment out the function in hal_lib.c?
[21:58:38] <fenn> [/opt/cnc/src/emc2/src/hal/hal_lib.o] Error 1 make[2]: *** ?
[21:59:22] <jopingo> insmod: can't read 'adeos': No such file or directory
[21:59:22] <jopingo> insmod: error inserting '/opt/cnc/emc2/rtlib/motmod.ko': -1 Unknown symbol in module
[21:59:31] <anonimasu_> hm..
[21:59:47] <jopingo> i see the spashimage btw ;)
[21:59:48] <Jymmm> anonimasu heres some thigns you can do... http://www.laserproi.com/en/engr_showcase_main.php
[22:00:46] <fenn> jopingo: try doing scripts/realtime start
[22:01:01] <fenn> if that doesnt work, rmmod all the rtai modules and try it again
[22:01:11] <fenn> er, try realtime start again, i mean
[22:01:20] <jopingo> insmod: can't read 'adeos': No such file or directory
[22:01:21] <jopingo> hmmm
[22:01:33] <jopingo> 2.6.7-adeos
[22:01:54] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[22:02:01] <jopingo> ill strace a littlwe
[22:02:05] <fenn> did you compile rtai while running that kernel? because rtai's autoconf looks at the current kernel
[22:02:13] <fenn> it's kinda dumb
[22:02:23] <jopingo> fenn: yes, i think so :)
[22:02:29] <jopingo> ill comnpile rtai again :)
[22:02:32] <fenn> ok
[22:02:45] <jopingo> to be shure
[22:04:28] <jopingo> is there some cnc emulation ? or do i need real hardware to make emc2 happy ?
[22:04:48] <fenn> hmmm i am having the same problems as you are now :0
[22:05:04] <fenn> there's no simulation code.. i wish there were
[22:05:04] <anonimasu_> you need rtai and the things installed, but you can run without hardware if you want
[22:05:14] <anonimasu_> if you use stepgen...
[22:05:22] <anonimasu_> err whatever it's called in emc2
[22:05:23] <fenn> right.. you don't need any motors or driver board to run emc
[22:05:34] <anonimasu_> visualmill is on crack.
[22:05:37] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ sighs
[22:05:40] <anonimasu_> it wont machine my impeller :(
[22:05:42] <fenn> but you do need rtai working
[22:05:44] <jopingo> nice, thanks )
[22:05:55] <jopingo> yes, it cpmpiles :)
[22:08:26] <jopingo> my thought is first too check the controlling software, get warm with it, then the hardware, (homebrewn or second hand, i havent desidet yet)
[22:08:48] <fenn> well, welcome to the club
[22:08:50] <anonimasu_> :)
[22:08:57] <jopingo> i want to do eloectric circuit cutting :)
[22:09:58] <jopingo> rtai install finished with a lot of warnings :)
[22:10:25] <jopingo> Warning: xyz are not documented hahaha
[22:10:35] <fenn> damn my installation isn't working at all anymore
[22:11:21] <jopingo> insmod: can't read 'adeos': No such file or directory
[22:11:24] <jopingo> hmmm
[22:11:33] <fenn> right.. same here
[22:11:35] <jopingo> i have an adeos patched kernel
[22:12:27] <jopingo> hmm, but my realtimemodules are all loaded
[22:12:28] <jopingo> hmm
[22:13:00] <jopingo> for i in `find /usr/realtime/modules | grep ko$`; do insmod $i; done
[22:13:03] <jopingo> :)
[22:13:23] <jopingo> just to see for errors ;) its rather sensless to do that, i know
[22:13:23] <fenn> it says rtapi could not open shared memory
[22:14:37] <fenn> that's in /dev/shm right? i'm wondering if udev deleted something in there during a reboot
[22:14:40] <jopingo> fenn: how do you get this error message ?
[22:14:57] <jopingo> i dont use udev
[22:15:31] <fenn> scripts/hal_demo siggen
[22:16:00] <fenn> i know this has been discussed before, i just need to find it
[22:16:08] <jopingo> rtai_shm 21888 1 rtapi
[22:17:54] <anonimasu_> hm 490 minutes to machine a impeller..
[22:18:01] <anonimasu_> to rough it..
[22:18:21] <anonimasu_> no way
[22:18:47] <jopingo> ok, ill play around with it, cu lator
[22:18:58] <jopingo> jopingo is now known as jopiAway
[22:19:14] <anonimasu_> ah with some modification it's down to 5
[22:20:12] <anonimasu_> :)
[22:21:13] <Jymmm> oh lord... I want to walk awat a bit and head to the range, but it's too damn hot and they use swap coolers (which doens't work in the bay area).
[22:21:54] <anonimasu_> :(
[22:22:06] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ is going to remodel it and machine it tomorrow
[22:22:20] <fenn> why are you making an impeller?
[22:22:35] <anonimasu_> couldnt find any flow sensors :
[22:22:36] <anonimasu_> :)
[22:22:41] <fenn> heh
[22:22:46] <anonimasu_> had this stupid idea about flowing a head..
[22:23:05] <anonimasu_> and making impeller to measure flow, makes as much sense as to calc it from pressure drop..
[22:23:22] <Jymmm> anonimasu fluid or gas?
[22:23:26] <anonimasu_> gas
[22:23:28] <anonimasu_> air..
[22:23:35] <Jymmm> anonimasu laser
[22:23:39] <fenn> dude.. rip a mass flow sensor out of a junked turbo'd vehicle
[22:23:45] <Jymmm> anonimasu it's whats used in biomed
[22:23:52] <anonimasu_> laser?
[22:23:58] <anonimasu_> karman vortex sensors..
[22:24:03] <Jymmm> anonimasu yeah, very slick...
[22:24:04] <anonimasu_> or?
[22:24:06] <anonimasu_> yeah
[22:24:11] <anonimasu_> horrid to interface..
[22:24:17] <anonimasu_> and hard to get by one in the correct size..
[22:24:20] <fenn> arg.. you just need a heated wire, measure the resistance of the wire
[22:24:31] <anonimasu_> yeah, but thoose sensors are hard to get in the right size..
[22:24:44] <Jymmm> anonimasu it does a spectum analysis of smoke stacks too or in biomed to gas during surgery and whatnot.
[22:24:52] <anonimasu_> yep
[22:24:56] <anonimasu_> I dont need it to be that fancy
[22:24:56] <anonimasu_> :9
[22:25:11] <Jymmm> anonimasu they are connected to 1/4" tubing
[22:25:19] <Jymmm> clamp on
[22:25:20] <fenn> i need to figure out why HAL doesn't load
[22:25:35] <anonimasu_> very cool :)
[22:25:39] <anonimasu_> but hard to get by easily
[22:25:41] <anonimasu_> and they cost a arm
[22:25:54] <anonimasu_> a flowbench computer with sensors are about 700$
[22:26:01] <Jymmm> anonimasu_ Yeah, probably not a lot of surplus biomed in your area.
[22:26:06] <anonimasu_> - the vaccum source and stuff.. but still
[22:26:22] <anonimasu_> and I dont have that much need so that I can justify purchasing one
[22:26:27] <Jymmm> what about what fenn was saying.
[22:26:54] <anonimasu_> the heated wire ones?
[22:26:56] <Jymmm> car air flow sensor
[22:27:02] <anonimasu_> still hard to get..
[22:27:09] <Jymmm> any auto parts store
[22:27:11] <anonimasu_> needs to be from a 1,0l car..
[22:27:17] <anonimasu_> or smaller
[22:27:31] <anonimasu_> I'll be flowing a single chamber at a time..
[22:27:35] <Jymmm> what no autoparts or car dealers in your area?
[22:27:41] <anonimasu_> not nearby
[22:27:45] <anonimasu_> and I would still need the part number
[22:27:48] <fenn> how about.. direct your flow into an upside down bucket full of water, and measure the displacement
[22:27:52] <anonimasu_> I can buy bosch stuff directly..
[22:28:04] <anonimasu_> fenn: that requires calcs to measure the flow
[22:28:07] <anonimasu_> lots of them
[22:28:09] <Jymmm> anonimasu can't call them and ask for a partnumber?
[22:28:21] <fenn> volume/time ?
[22:28:31] <fenn> seems easy enough
[22:28:40] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: I can buy finding one is another issue most cars use pressure sensors nowdays..
[22:29:09] <fenn> what's the flow measurement used for?
[22:29:14] <fenn> in a flow bench
[22:29:24] <anonimasu_> determinating where you can carve off material ;)
[22:29:28] <anonimasu_> porting
[22:29:30] <Jymmm> http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/images/artlr/350119small.jpg
[22:29:46] <anonimasu_> yeah
[22:29:47] <Jymmm> it's hot wire like you said
[22:29:52] <anonimasu_> that'd be ideal..
[22:29:55] <anonimasu_> but it's too large..
[22:29:57] <Jymmm> http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/gmmaftruck.htm
[22:29:58] <anonimasu_> I think
[22:30:26] <fenn> doesn't the size just determine the frequency rate of the sensor's response?
[22:30:35] <anonimasu_> yeah, but also the range..
[22:30:36] <fenn> the thermal mass of the little wire
[22:30:45] <anonimasu_> motors flow several 100cfm's..
[22:30:53] <anonimasu_> 500 for a turbo engine I think..
[22:30:57] <Jymmm> these look smaller http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/images/artlr/350111small.jpg
[22:31:18] <anonimasu_> so to flow at a lower flow, the sensor needs to be smaller and more sensitive
[22:31:24] <anonimasu_> yeah
[22:31:36] <Jymmm> but if it's just a hotwire, that's easy enough
[22:31:48] <Jymmm> Hell, I have 40ga NiChrome here
[22:32:02] <fenn> you could use a christmas light bulb filament
[22:32:12] <Jymmm> about 50K feet of it =)
[22:32:12] <anonimasu_> :)
[22:32:27] <Jymmm> go take apart a toaster or electric blanket
[22:32:29] <anonimasu_> I'd rather buy the sensor and have it calibrated with real equipment off work :)
[22:32:32] <Jymmm> or heatng pad
[22:32:37] <fenn> anonimasu: good idea :)
[22:32:46] <anonimasu_> but I dont know if that stuff will flow air..
[22:32:47] <anonimasu_> probably
[22:33:02] <Jymmm> $450
[22:33:22] <anonimasu_> got some pressure meters that will do cfm with 2 sensors..
[22:33:26] <anonimasu_> ouch
[22:33:26] <Jacky^> anyone here has tried videolan ?
[22:33:39] <anonimasu_> yes..
[22:33:41] <anonimasu_> it's great
[22:33:45] <Jymmm> ?
[22:34:04] <anonimasu_> www.videolan.org
[22:34:34] <Jymmm> what codec does it use?
[22:34:43] <anonimasu_> hm, lots..
[22:34:45] <anonimasu_> internal ones :)
[22:34:51] <anonimasu_> it plays most stuff
[22:35:04] <Jacky^> anonimasu_: I've Tvtime on Debian, i would like to see the video in another pc connected in lan..
[22:35:09] <Jymmm> for streaming I mean
[22:35:19] <anonimasu_> no clue..
[22:35:25] <anonimasu_> it's hell to compile on linux
[22:35:26] <Jacky^> will try
[22:35:28] <Jacky^> :)
[22:35:32] <anonimasu_> but if you can find a .deb it's great
[22:35:43] <anonimasu_> it requires so many livavi and stuff
[22:35:48] <anonimasu_> http://www.videolan.org/doc/faq/en/videolan-faq-en.html
[22:35:55] <Jacky^> ok
[22:36:44] <Jymmm> wow, it streams many differetn mjr formats
[22:36:50] <anonimasu_> yeah :)
[22:37:08] <Jacky^> should be funny
[22:37:22] <Jymmm> a Tv with a computer inside would be cool
[22:37:49] <Jymmm> with a massive audio/video library in the closet!!!
[22:38:05] <Jymmm> 1200 disc DVD jukebox!!!!
[22:38:17] <Jymmm> Yeah baby Yeah!
[22:38:26] <Jacky^> :)
[22:39:29] <Jymmm> ok, since everything here is borked, I'm feeling unproductive. It's either watch a DVD and mellow out, or learn some cad/cam software.
[22:39:43] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ is too
[22:39:56] <anonimasu_> my machining of the impeller can wait
[22:40:14] <Jymmm> we have NetFlix so theres a few dvds in here
[22:40:20] <anonimasu_> :)
[22:40:49] <Jymmm> Eh, my back hurts a bit... ok DVD it is =)
[22:41:11] <Jymmm> bbiab
[22:42:39] <Jacky^> mmmhh..
[22:43:06] <Jacky^> m girlfriend anna here wnat to buy a machine
[22:43:16] <Jacky^> http://www.directembroidery.co.uk/innovisrange.htm
[22:43:36] <Jacky^> i was thinking.. if if possible to made something using stepper :P
[22:44:03] <Jacky^> should be possible i think
[22:44:55] <Jacky^> is it working like a cnc machine ?
[22:47:07] <anonimasu_> something like it :)
[22:47:17] <Jacky^> mmmm
[22:48:19] <Jacky^> 180mmx130
[22:49:15] <Jacky^> the hard part should be the software..
[22:49:31] <anonimasu_> *looks for a felt tip pen to sketch some with*
[22:49:45] <Jacky^> :D
[22:49:55] <Jacky^> using a pen as tool ? :P
[22:50:00] <Jacky^> cool
[22:50:17] <Jacky^> but is a different thing
[22:51:23] <fenn> * fenn pouts.. i wanna watch a dvd too.. but i just erased all the anime i downloaded on accident
[22:52:53] <Jacky^> i'm going to try to install videolan on a windows laptop and linux wk..
[22:54:04] <fenn> what G-code do you use to make a stitch? :)
[22:54:07] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ throws anime at fenn
[22:54:24] <anonimasu_> Jacky^: for doing a concept drawing of a part ;)
[22:54:25] <Jacky^> fenn: that's the problem :s
[22:54:34] <Jacky^> anonimasu_: yeah
[22:55:01] <fenn> i guess you could treat the sewing machine as a spindle, and turn the spindle on/off each time you want to make a stich
[22:55:35] <fenn> you could make a script that puts in the stitch code between every line of the program
[22:55:36] <anonimasu_> fenn: I kind of guessed you were into anime after the talk about mech's ;)
[22:55:54] <fenn> i'm not really, not like some people, but i just discovered bittorrent
[22:56:08] <anonimasu_> ok :/
[22:56:13] <fenn> i had all these ideas about robots and space colonies and stuff.. then i see the damn thing on TV!!
[22:56:16] <Jacky^> fenn: should be nice :)
[22:57:05] <fenn> i guess they beat me by about 30 years, huh
[22:57:13] <anonimasu_> yeah :)
[22:58:03] <anonimasu_> I am drawing a throttle body..
[22:59:09] <fenn> oh well, since i can't play i guess i just have to do some work
[22:59:35] <anonimasu_> play?
[22:59:43] <anonimasu_> but ah..
[22:59:50] <anonimasu_> the good idea ended as crap
[23:00:42] <fenn> it is half-moon.. the biorhythms are bad for doing anything that requires willpower
[23:00:51] <anonimasu_> is that true`
[23:00:52] <anonimasu_> ?
[23:01:01] <fenn> well, it's the best i can come up with
[23:01:11] <anonimasu_> sounds reasonable
[23:01:43] <fenn> my favorite is just before new moon
[23:02:07] <fenn> good for stalking through the night and slitting people's throats
[23:02:30] <fenn> but, uh, also works good for machining
[23:02:49] <anonimasu_> LOL
[23:02:55] <anonimasu_> indeed
[23:03:11] <anonimasu_> I feel like machining but I have nothing to machine
[23:03:16] <anonimasu_> and all I draw ends up as crap
[23:03:40] <fenn> try surfacing some blocks
[23:03:52] <anonimasu_> why?
[23:03:54] <fenn> cubes.. don't have to think or anything
[23:03:57] <anonimasu_> heh
[23:04:08] <anonimasu_> I want to make some real part :)
[23:04:15] <anonimasu_> facemilling is scary
[23:04:22] <anonimasu_> I'd like to try my boring head
[23:05:52] <Jacky^> I'm going to install the server on Linux pc: vls - lightweight MPEG and DVD video streaming server, it's right ?
[23:06:01] <anonimasu_> but well, I cant come up with any part
[23:06:54] <fenn> dial test indicator bracket
[23:08:02] <anonimasu_> hm..
[23:08:03] <fenn> couple pieces of drill rod, some chunks of alu. with bored out holes, split collar type clamping
[23:08:07] <fenn> nothin to it
[23:08:09] <anonimasu_> yeah
[23:08:13] <fenn> can never have too many of those things
[23:09:33] <anonimasu_> hm yeah
[23:10:04] <anonimasu_> I'd need to make a tool to slit it with..
[23:10:40] <fenn> hacksaw :)
[23:11:00] <fenn> a wood miter saw works well enough if you clamp it securely
[23:11:45] <anonimasu_> heh
[23:12:28] <fenn> i free-hand dice up motorcycle wheels on a dewalt miter saw
[23:12:40] <fenn> i can do like 5/hr
[23:12:49] <anonimasu_> lol
[23:12:51] <Jacky^> [
[23:12:55] <Jacky^> ops
[23:13:04] <fenn> have to fit in my 3" dia crucible
[23:13:06] <Jacky^> [00000262] v4l demuxer error: failed capturing new frame
[23:13:11] <Jacky^> ouch :\
[23:13:42] <anonimasu_> and I have my lathe in molecules :)
[23:13:49] <anonimasu_> or well my new good lathe :)
[23:13:49] <fenn> me too
[23:13:55] <fenn> just bought one at the cnc-workshop
[23:14:02] <anonimasu_> going to put bushings everywhere..
[23:14:16] <fenn> bushing stock is damned expensive
[23:14:29] <anonimasu_> and replace the screws with ballscrews :)
[23:14:47] <fenn> why not use ball bearings instead of bushings?
[23:15:24] <anonimasu_> at some places yes.. but putting them in place.. is hell
[23:15:48] <anonimasu_> I dont have means to machine them in place
[23:15:52] <fenn> right
[23:15:58] <fenn> alignment is a pain
[23:16:02] <anonimasu_> yep
[23:16:13] <anonimasu_> I can machine them in place where it matters and leave the rest
[23:16:23] <anonimasu_> for the slide and stuff..
[23:16:24] <fenn> next time i make a machine tool, everything is gonna be either cubes or cylinders
[23:16:31] <anonimasu_> :)
[23:16:43] <anonimasu_> it's a heavy small lathe
[23:16:48] <anonimasu_> 800kg :)
[23:16:54] <fenn> ick
[23:17:04] <fenn> what swing/ctc distance?
[23:17:41] <anonimasu_> I cant remember but it's a pretty small lathe
[23:17:48] <anonimasu_> wait
[23:17:51] <anonimasu_> I have a picture
[23:18:07] <anonimasu_> the brand of it is randall I think
[23:18:30] <anonimasu_> english..
[23:21:30] <anonimasu_> http://www.bojn.net/~an0n/DSC01230.JPG
[23:21:32] <anonimasu_> http://www.bojn.net/~an0n/DSC01231.JPG
[23:23:03] <anonimasu_> Need to order a VFD + brake for it
[23:23:08] <fenn> i just took this picture: fenn.freeshell.org/camera/DCP_0426.JPG
[23:23:30] <anonimasu_> nice
[23:23:38] <anonimasu_> :)
[23:23:51] <fenn> it was a machinist's personal at-home lathe.. came with the bench and every accessory they made
[23:24:01] <fenn> it came with 6 chucks :)
[23:24:04] <anonimasu_> :)
[23:24:12] <anonimasu_> I've got 2 chucks..
[23:24:22] <anonimasu_> going to replace the one on the lathe now with a mehanite chuck I have..
[23:24:30] <anonimasu_> on the old/smaller lathe
[23:24:39] <fenn> that is a stout lathe
[23:24:40] <anonimasu_> good & expensive :)
[23:24:45] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[23:25:22] <anonimasu_> it'll make lots of part for my cnc lathe :)
[23:25:25] <fenn> we picked mine up by hand out of my honda civic
[23:25:37] <fenn> carried it into the basement, set it down
[23:25:42] <anonimasu_> hehe
[23:25:50] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ likes having a good lathe
[23:26:05] <fenn> i'm used to wimpy lathes..
[23:26:12] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ hates lathes that bend
[23:26:24] <fenn> once you learn how to deal with it, it's not really an issue
[23:26:36] <fenn> mostof the time is spent in setup usually
[23:26:43] <fenn> machining is the anticlimax
[23:26:55] <anonimasu_> http://www.bojn.net/~an0n/AUT_6002.JPG
[23:26:56] <fenn> unless you are doing production stuff
[23:26:57] <anonimasu_> lathe at work ;)
[23:27:06] <anonimasu_> yeah as long as they dont taper..
[23:27:39] <fenn> you mean like a warped bed?
[23:27:41] <anonimasu_> yeah
[23:27:49] <anonimasu_> small shitty/cheap lathes have
[23:27:52] <anonimasu_> I've owned one :)
[23:28:03] <fenn> well, the QC in china isn't what it used to be :)
[23:28:06] <anonimasu_> hehe
[23:28:41] <anonimasu_> fenn: I wish that lathe was cnc
[23:28:42] <anonimasu_> :D
[23:29:02] <fenn> looks like that big lathe has a nice sized through-bore
[23:29:26] <anonimasu_> yeah
[23:29:45] <fenn> looks like a good starting point for a cnc lathe
[23:30:05] <anonimasu_> lol
[23:30:24] <fenn> might wanna make a turret tailstock or something
[23:30:27] <fenn> depends on what you're doing i guess
[23:30:43] <anonimasu_> the one I have at home?
[23:30:50] <anonimasu_> ah, nah it wont be cnc
[23:31:05] <anonimasu_> I'll build a smaller one :)
[23:31:20] <anonimasu_> I need something able to turn steel and stuff..
[23:31:23] <fenn> i was talking abou the big one at work
[23:31:28] <anonimasu_> oh not really..
[23:31:43] <anonimasu_> it's in use daily so cnc:ing it for the one off stuff would be a waste
[23:31:55] <anonimasu_> a dro maybe
[23:33:15] <fenn> seems most places just use more machines if they want one of them to be cnc
[23:33:28] <fenn> you have the cnc lathe int he corner, manual machine where you can get to it easily
[23:33:46] <fenn> cnc does its stuff while you sit there cranking away at the manual
[23:34:03] <fenn> shrug
[23:34:04] <anonimasu_> yeah
[23:34:27] <fenn> me, i like to keep things portable so that when i move for the third time in three years i dont have to move a 2 ton chunk of iron
[23:34:39] <fenn> that's half of why i'm into hexapods
[23:35:13] <fenn> best rigidity per unit mass
[23:39:15] <anonimasu_> yep
[23:40:40] <anonimasu_> I'd love to do production on a cnc lathe
[23:40:50] <anonimasu_> compared to a mill it's a breeze :)
[23:42:04] <fenn> they just need bar-stock feeders for milling machines
[23:42:21] <fenn> cut out a part, feed the barstock along, mill out some more pockets, repeat
[23:42:34] <fenn> cutoff saw next to the mill
[23:42:46] <fenn> or just mill the part so it falls out of the bar
[23:42:47] <anonimasu_> yeah :)
[23:43:05] <fenn> i'm just blowing hot air :)
[23:43:22] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[23:43:26] <anonimasu_> would work for moving head
[23:45:28] <anonimasu_> I'd love to have a program that could auto generate fixtures
[23:46:00] <anonimasu_> that you feed the .cnc file.. and it generates them
[23:48:07] <fenn> hey where was the picture of the prototype reed flow sensor you made?
[23:48:21] <fenn> btw did that ever actually work?
[23:49:35] <anonimasu_> yes with a on off switch..
[23:49:42] <anonimasu_> but it would work with a piezo material..
[23:49:54] <anonimasu_> with a bit of a different design on the inlet
[23:50:18] <anonimasu_> trouble is that I cant get any piezo material without special ordering..