#emc | Logs for 2005-06-15

[00:00:02] <anna_d> no non mi perdo
[00:00:28] <anna_d> so gesticolare io?
[00:00:37] <jacky^> anna_d: Jymmm dice che ci vorrebbe un po di tempo per vedere tutta la california. dovresti stare li per un bel tempo
[00:00:45] <Jymmm> logger_aj, bookmark
[00:00:45] <Jymmm> See
[00:00:56] <anna_d> si ci vorrebbero molt moneyyy
[00:01:12] <jacky^> hehehe
[00:01:24] <anna_d> quella foto
[00:01:34] <Jymmm> jacky^ ?
[00:01:34] <anna_d> � del lavoro che hai fatto?
[00:01:36] <anna_d> vero'
[00:03:06] <jacky^> anna_d: say's to see california how Jymmm say's will need too much money :\
[00:03:06] <jacky^> too much time
[00:03:06] <jacky^> anna_d: tomorrow.. vedro' will see
[00:03:19] <Phydbleep> anna_d: Ho truffato e fatto funzionare questo attraverso babelfish in modo da scusi la grammatica silly. Vorrei rimanere e chiacchierare un po'di più, ma devo andare ottengo le parti e riparo l'impianto idraulico prima di esso destructs e cause di auto un inondazione.
[00:03:44] <anna_d> Phydbleep, vieni in Italia'
[00:04:24] <jacky^> HAHHAHA
[00:04:36] <jacky^> capito anna_d ?
[00:05:00] <jacky^> nice Phydbleep :)
[00:05:15] <jacky^> okay
[00:05:29] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep goes 'Huh?' and runs back to babelfish.
[00:05:37] <jacky^> hehe
[00:06:01] <jacky^> 80 % good translate
[00:06:11] <Jymmm> Se Anna sta andando visitare la California, dovr� cominciare lavorare all'inglese del yher un ancora un poco =)
[00:06:53] <jacky^> Jymmm: right
[00:07:07] <anna_d> mah io vado a dormire
[00:07:21] <anna_d> good night
[00:07:42] <Phydbleep> Goognight anna_d :)
[00:07:42] <jacky^> ok anna_d
[00:07:53] <Jymmm> G'Night anna_d
[00:07:56] <jacky^> see tomorrow
[00:08:10] <jacky^> i also go
[00:08:21] <jacky^> gnight all
[00:08:21] <jacky^> :)
[00:08:29] <jacky^> night
[00:08:30] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep must go fix the plumbing as well. :
[00:08:39] <Phydbleep> G'night jacky^ :)
[00:08:42] <Jymmm> Ok, everyone have a nice evening!
[00:09:02] <Jymmm> jacky^ how old is she?
[00:09:04] <jacky^> night Phydbleep
[00:09:18] <jacky^> Jymmm: she's mine.. really..
[00:09:31] <Jymmm> jacky^ no, how OLD is she?
[00:09:38] <jacky^> 37
[00:09:56] <jacky^> i'm 36
[00:10:00] <Jymmm> jacky^ Oh man, you are gonna have one heck of a time getting her to change =)
[00:10:15] <jacky^> :-)
[00:10:17] <Jymmm> jacky^ : Like speaking more english
[00:10:24] <jacky^> yeah
[00:10:43] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is 40
[00:10:49] <jacky^> :)
[00:11:05] <Phydbleep> Over the hill and gaining velocity. :)
[00:11:46] <Jymmm> Phydbleep : Tis ok, we forgive you for that =)
[00:19:23] <jacky^> Jymmm: here's a clean photo of me and anna in capri (NA)
[00:19:32] <jacky^> http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&pos=-1255
[00:21:20] <jacky^> look capri is wonderful
[00:22:06] <jacky^> paul...
[00:22:17] <jacky^> what's up ?
[00:30:24] <jacky^> Jymmm:
[00:31:03] <jacky^> http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&pos=-1256
[00:31:05] <jacky^> LOL
[00:31:39] <jacky^> i'm the man with the l.a. tshirt
[00:32:01] <jacky^> and my brother
[00:32:54] <jacky^> we
[00:39:28] <LawrenceG> any axis display developers online this evening? Looking for help/info
[01:03:18] <jacky^> ugh
[01:46:10] <Jymmm> jacky^ you party animal you! =)
[01:47:28] <jacky^> uh ?
[01:47:39] <Jymmm> jacky^ your LA tshirt =)
[01:48:36] <jacky^> ahhhh
[01:48:39] <jacky^> :
[01:48:43] <jacky^> :)
[01:51:18] <jacky^> Jymmm: talking seoryously
[01:51:36] <jacky^> when come here ?
[01:51:59] <jacky^> leave ca for a few...
[01:53:28] <Jymmm> jacky^ Probably never as it stands now. Too much work for one, and I'd like to visit a few other places (Great Barrier Reef, Japan, Thailand) before hitting Italy/EU.
[01:54:29] <jacky^> umpf
[01:54:57] <jacky^> more probably we encountereed in ca thatbin it :\
[01:55:17] <CIA-12> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/hal/components/encoder.c: re-ordered the test for changed scale value to eliminate a possible (but very unlikely) race condition
[01:56:06] <Jymmm> jacky^ : More than likely, yes =)
[01:56:34] <CIA-12> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/hal/components/freqgen.c: converted freqgen position scale factor from units per step, to steps per unit, to be consistent with normal emc.ini units
[01:58:06] <jacky^> Jymmm: :((((((((
[02:05:13] <A-L-P-H-A> beautiful weather... ups didn't do squat
[02:06:52] <CIA-12> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/hal/components/freqgen.c: fixed a mistake in my last change
[02:12:17] <CIA-12> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_motenc.c: converted motenc encoder input position scale factor from units per step, to steps per unit, to be consistent with normal emc.ini units
[02:14:24] <jacky^> night guys
[02:14:37] <jacky^> ciao Jymmm
[02:15:01] <fenn_afk> well that could have gone a little better at least
[02:15:04] <fenn_afk> fenn_afk is now known as fenn
[02:15:22] <fenn> damn computer wouldn't boot up
[02:15:27] <fenn> oh well
[02:15:38] <fenn> that's what dry erase boards are for :)
[02:26:03] <jmkasunich> hi pete
[02:26:25] <petev> hi
[02:26:47] <petev> John, what do you think about adding some functions like nam2num to rtapi?
[02:27:11] <jmkasunich> nam2num?
[02:27:38] <petev> it's an RTAI function that hashes a string to a number for use as shared memory keys
[02:27:49] <jmkasunich> oh...
[02:28:00] <jmkasunich> let me refresh my memory
[02:28:06] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich looks at rtapi source
[02:28:20] <petev> I'm not sure if there is an equivalent in rtlinux, but wouldn't be hard to write one
[02:30:12] <jmkasunich> rtl has one that goes the other way
[02:30:21] <jmkasunich> (they use strings for shmem keys)
[02:30:52] <jmkasunich> you want to make that a public API?
[02:31:36] <petev> something portable would be nice if you want EMC2 to support both RTL and RTAI
[02:31:41] <petev> what do you suggest?
[02:31:48] <jmkasunich> RTAPI does support both
[02:32:31] <petev> hmm, I only saw a numeric for the key in RTAPI, what did I miss?
[02:32:32] <jmkasunich> you pass it an int, for RTAI it uses it directly, for RTL it calls the RTL function genstr(int key, char *keystr)
[02:32:54] <jmkasunich> RTAPI hides the difference
[02:33:31] <petev> ahh, I guess I needed to look at the whole file and not just under the shared memory stuff :)
[02:33:37] <jmkasunich> (That is what RTAPI is all about... it hides differences between the RTAI and RTLinux api)
[02:33:45] <jmkasunich> which file are you looking in?
[02:33:54] <petev> yes, that's what I was looking for
[02:34:02] <petev> was looking in rtapi.h
[02:34:08] <jmkasunich> rtapi.h describes the public interface, which always uses ints
[02:34:19] <petev> CL nees to be cleaned up badly
[02:34:45] <petev> I'm going to fix the shmem stuff and try and get it rtapi compliant
[02:34:46] <jmkasunich> the code in rtai_rtapi.c passes that int to rtai's memory allocator
[02:34:57] <petev> not sure what to do about the GTK stuff
[02:35:07] <jmkasunich> code in rtl_rtapi.c converts the int to a string and passes the string to RTL's memory allocator
[02:35:14] <petev> I made mods to work on GTK 2, but not sure if it will still work on 1
[02:35:57] <jmkasunich> dang... that reminds me... paul found compile problems when compiling halmeter and halscope for GTK2
[02:36:12] <petev> really?
[02:36:26] <petev> I complied it on my box with GTK 2 with no problems
[02:37:01] <jmkasunich> (the problems actually seem to be somewhere in the include chain, I think he reproduced the problem with a program that didn't actually have any code... it happens when you include gtk.h
[02:37:19] <petev> On the shmem key, I guess I was just thinking it would be nice to see string names in the source
[02:37:20] <jmkasunich> probably library paths or compiler flags are screwed up on the box he was using
[02:37:28] <petev> would be less likely to collide
[02:37:54] <petev> maybe RTAPI should take strings and hash them for RTAI and use directly for RTL
[02:38:02] <petev> or at least offer that as an option
[02:38:14] <jmkasunich> I suppose so... since I had one RTOS using strings and one using ints, I had to pick... the old assy hacker in me picked ints cause they're smaller and faster
[02:38:20] <petev> I was on a BDI 4.20 install
[02:38:29] <petev> then apt-get GTK 2 and that's it
[02:38:38] <jmkasunich> hmmm... paul said he was too
[02:38:54] <petev> I did find there are 2 DBI 4.20 ISOs out there
[02:38:56] <jmkasunich> I'm on BDI-4.20 to, but I apt-got GTK1.2
[02:39:04] <petev> the one on wild rice was not the same as on cnc gear
[02:39:13] <jmkasunich> that's not good
[02:39:25] <petev> the one on wild rice didn't seem to install any kernel sources
[02:39:47] <petev> Todd was having a problem with this and he got his from wild rice
[02:39:56] <petev> I used the one on cnc gear and had no problem
[02:40:00] <jmkasunich> strange
[02:40:15] <petev> Todd then got the one I used after having re-installed about 5 times and he got the
[02:40:22] <petev> same results as me on the first install
[02:40:43] <jmkasunich> the kernel sources are only needed to compile emc, right? the install itself worked?
[02:40:57] <petev> yes, the install worked fine
[02:41:04] <petev> he just couldn't build EMC2
[02:41:31] <petev> his box isn't on the net, so getting the kernel source would have been a pain
[02:41:40] <jmkasunich> before I could compile emc I had to follow the steps on that one wiki page...
[02:41:59] <jmkasunich> (several apt-get installs, and then a few tricks with kernel config files)
[02:42:03] <jmkasunich> url in a set
[02:42:04] <jmkasunich> sec
[02:42:24] <petev> hmm, after the BDI install on mine, all I had to do was configure the kernel and then the EMC2 directory and I was good to go
[02:42:35] <jmkasunich> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_Install
[02:42:58] <jmkasunich> that's what paul wrote as instructions to prepare a 4.20 box for compiling
[02:43:07] <petev> yeah, I didn't have to do any of that
[02:43:22] <petev> all the packages were installed except for the GTK dev package
[02:43:33] <jmkasunich> huh... I wonder if he re-released 4.20 with that stuff pre-done, since more people are getting interested in emc2
[02:43:36] <petev> and of course I had to grab EMC2 from CVS
[02:44:09] <petev> could be, but it caused some confusion for me and Todd
[02:44:20] <jmkasunich> I can imagine
[02:45:25] <jmkasunich> I'm hoping that when 4.21 comes out it is "compile ready" out of the box
[02:46:02] <petev> that would be nice
[02:46:27] <petev> ok, I'm going to keep hacking on the CL code and see if I can get the GUI part in order
[02:46:32] <jmkasunich> for now, I just point folks at that wiki page.. it goes pretty smoothly (if you have a net connection)
[02:46:33] <petev> I have the RT part in decent shap
[02:46:35] <petev> shape
[02:46:41] <jmkasunich> that's great
[02:46:53] <petev> I was thinking about two user space apps
[02:46:59] <jmkasunich> are you by any chance going to the CNC workshop?
[02:47:00] <petev> one the stand alone GUI
[02:47:06] <petev> and one a HAL component for config
[02:47:10] <petev> what do you think?
[02:47:24] <petev> No, I'm swamped right now
[02:47:56] <jmkasunich> a user space HAL component? the actual "ladder evaluator" is a RT hal component, right?
[02:48:20] <jmkasunich> and the stand along GUI lets you edit the ladder?
[02:49:10] <petev> yes
[02:49:20] <jmkasunich> I don't understand what the user hal comp does then
[02:49:26] <petev> the user space HAL component would be just to configure the LADDER logic
[02:49:50] <petev> I can't think of a good way to do it that will work from a HAL config file other than that
[02:50:05] <jmkasunich> is "configure" = "edit the rungs", or more like "decide how many coils and contacts it will have"
[02:50:25] <petev> no, all editing/debugging is done from the GUI
[02:50:48] <petev> configure means to load LADDER logic into the data structure that the RT HAL comp runs
[02:51:08] <petev> the LADDER logic is stored in files with CL
[02:51:43] <jmkasunich> surely CL loads the ladder into RAM to execute it?
[02:51:53] <jmkasunich> I thought you'd just amke that shared ram
[02:52:24] <jmkasunich> (I know very little about the internals of CL, this is probably clear as day to you but I'm trying to understand)
[02:52:52] <petev> it does load it into RAM
[02:53:11] <petev> the RT component comes up and allocates shmem for it based on module params
[02:53:32] <petev> however, that just leaves you with a data structure and no LADDER logic
[02:53:44] <petev> there is a state variable that the RT comp looks at
[02:53:55] <petev> it only executes the logic when in the RUN state
[02:54:14] <petev> the user code initializes the logic and sets the state to RUN
[02:54:34] <petev> the GUI does the same thing, but also gives the graphical display and edit capability
[02:54:52] <petev> the config from memory can be saved to a file
[02:54:55] <jmkasunich> oh... I think I'm starting to get it
[02:55:13] <petev> the file can be loaded the next time to configure the logic
[02:55:33] <jmkasunich> one user space prog is cmd line, simply loads ladder file to ram and starts the "ladder evaluator" (RT in our case, user space for the original CL)
[02:55:34] <petev> so, in a machine situation, the integrator would use the GUI and develop
[02:55:38] <petev> the logic and debug it
[02:55:54] <jmkasunich> the GUI can also load a file into ram, as well as editing it etc
[02:56:02] <petev> yes, but I was going to make it a HAL comp so it could configure from the HAL
[02:56:18] <jmkasunich> or does the GUI only provide edit capability? and you have to load with the other one?
[02:56:29] <petev> is there an easy way to include any command line stuff in HAL startup?
[02:56:42] <petev> the GUI does edit and file loading/saving
[02:56:51] <petev> the config tool is a subset of the GUI
[02:56:56] <jmkasunich> ok..
[02:57:00] <petev> same code with some modules removed
[02:57:04] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is starting to catch on ;-)
[02:57:30] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands jmkasunich a catcher mit and a fishing net (just in case)
[02:57:31] <jmkasunich> short answer, as of today there isn't a way for HAL to trigger off a user space component or program
[02:57:34] <petev> if we can run command line stuff from the HAL config, there is no need
[02:57:40] <petev> to make the config an HAL comp
[02:57:41] <jmkasunich> but
[02:58:08] <jmkasunich> maybe we should have a "loadusr" command that is analogous to "loadrt"
[02:58:32] <petev> yes, something like that would be nice
[02:58:36] <jmkasunich> loadrt forks, then execs insmod, passing it the module name and parameters
[02:58:55] <jmkasunich> loadusr would fork and exec the specified program, passing it parameters
[02:59:10] <jmkasunich> I like that....
[02:59:11] <petev> I think something like that would be better as it would save HAL resources
[02:59:27] <petev> how long will it take you :)
[02:59:27] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich thinks of using it to fire up some halmeters
[02:59:40] <jmkasunich> maybe tonight, if I stay up late
[02:59:44] <petev> that would be nice for integration
[02:59:48] <petev> cool
[02:59:48] <jmkasunich> tomorrow evening is busy
[03:00:10] <petev> I know the feeling, I have a conference call in a few
[03:00:20] <petev> I'll be up late tonight to get anything done
[03:00:33] <jmkasunich> lets see if we can work out this loadusr thing, and I'll try to code it tonight
[03:00:46] <jmkasunich> loadrt requires you to be root, because it is doing insmod
[03:00:53] <petev> ok, I have plenty of stuff to get through before I'll be ready for it
[03:01:13] <jmkasunich> loadusr doesn't (and probably shouldn't) give root privlidges to whatever it execs
[03:01:40] <petev> hmm, I wonder if it should be an option
[03:01:46] <jmkasunich> s/doesn't/doesn't need/
[03:01:59] <jmkasunich> maybe
[03:02:09] <petev> there may be some ugly code like the FPGA config stuff that requires it
[03:02:21] <jmkasunich> first pass... it will neither test for root, nor drop root privledges before the exec
[03:02:26] <petev> I put the FPGA stuff in the driver at the expense of memory
[03:02:30] <jmkasunich> so the exec'ed progs will get whatever halcmd has
[03:02:36] <petev> that's fine for first pass
[03:02:44] <jmkasunich> what else....
[03:02:53] <jmkasunich> path to the executable
[03:02:56] <petev> shouldn't need it for the CL stuff anyhow
[03:03:06] <jmkasunich> the config file should ideally have only the program name
[03:03:07] <petev> yes, and args
[03:03:21] <jmkasunich> should the exec use $PATH, or $PWD, or ?
[03:03:33] <petev> that would be nice, but then you will need some type of user path
[03:03:45] <jmkasunich> getenv(PATH)
[03:03:59] <petev> I would think $PATH or both $PATH and $PWD
[03:04:01] <jmkasunich> how about this:
[03:04:18] <jmkasunich> get <name> from the command
[03:04:44] <jmkasunich> try <name> (it might be a full path, if that's what the user wants)
[03:05:04] <jmkasunich> if that fails, try getenv(PWD)/<name?
[03:05:09] <jmkasunich> oops
[03:05:28] <jmkasunich> if that fails, try getenv(PATH)/<name>
[03:05:35] <jmkasunich> if that fails, bail out
[03:05:48] <petev> that sounds pretty good to me
[03:06:12] <jmkasunich> ok... this shouldn't be too hard to do... copy/paste the loadrt code
[03:06:29] <petev> ok, got to get on the conference call
[03:06:33] <petev> talk to you later
[03:06:35] <jmkasunich> later
[03:06:45] <petev> shoot me an email when you have it checked in
[03:06:56] <jmkasunich> are you subscribed to the commit list?
[03:07:11] <petev> yes, but I don't look at all of the emails, way too many
[03:07:19] <jmkasunich> ok, I'll ping you
[03:07:43] <LawrenceG> Hi John
[03:07:54] <jmkasunich> Hi
[03:08:13] <LawrenceG> been playing with emc2 all day... have axis running (mostly)
[03:09:20] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone thing that a 1/8ball nose could do some engraving?
[03:09:24] <A-L-P-H-A> think
[03:09:45] <fenn> yeah.. big engraving
[03:09:53] <LawrenceG> looks like I havea buffering problem during machining.... redline display on axis and the white paths flash wildly.
[03:10:24] <LawrenceG> been looking at sources and my opengl configs... no luck so far
[03:10:45] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, and jepler would be the souls to ask.
[03:11:18] <LawrenceG> pretty rough reading.... python -> gtk -> c
[03:13:39] <LawrenceG> looks like I am only single buffered... am going to try lowering display res to see if its a video card issue.
[03:20:37] <CIA-12> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/configs/ (core_servo.hal motenc_motion.hal): modified motenc hal file to get scaling from the ini file
[04:13:45] <LawrenceG> cool... we may be going on tsunami warning here... big 7.4 off California at 7:51pdt.
[04:14:07] <LawrenceG> guess I better put on my wet suite
[04:14:12] <jmkasunich> head for the hills
[04:14:58] <Jymmm> ***** Tsnuani Alert for the ENTIRE California/Oregon/Washington coast till apx 23:00 PDT *****
[04:15:02] <LawrenceG> marine radio spewing warnings... ham radio guys all excited
[04:15:17] <Jymmm> my radio is already on
[04:16:39] <LawrenceG> cnn has some info
[04:18:09] <A-L-P-H-A> the world is ending
[04:27:45] <dan_falck> anymore info on tsunami?
[04:28:03] <LawrenceG> warning offically cancelled
[04:28:13] <Jymmm> dan_falck : http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/message.txt
[04:28:19] <jmkasunich> google news has items, but nothing beyond the warning
[04:28:24] <dan_falck> Jymmm: thanks
[04:28:24] <LawrenceG> http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/message.txt
[04:29:34] <Jymmm> Calif OEs couldn't even handle the server load. bastards!
[04:31:04] <A-L-P-H-A> just a 7.0
[04:31:05] <A-L-P-H-A> bah!
[04:31:23] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder at what magnitude, I couldn't stand anymore.
[04:37:51] <Jymmm> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqsUS/Quakes/nc51161174.htm
[04:38:22] <jmkasunich> mag 3.7?
[04:38:36] <Jymmm> *shrug*
[04:38:54] <Jymmm> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqinthenews/2005/usziae/
[04:39:08] <Jymmm> the 3.7 might have been aftershocks
[04:39:15] <A-L-P-H-A> this is the only earthquake I can remember. http://www.gp.uwo.ca/events/980925a.html
[04:39:48] <Jymmm> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqsUS/Maps/US2/40.42.-127.-125.html
[04:40:27] <A-L-P-H-A> where's the tusanimi!!
[04:40:45] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/message.shtml
[04:41:28] <jmkasunich> A-L-P-H-A... I don't recall that one, but we had one in the same area about 8-10 years earlier that I distinctly remember
[04:42:04] <Jymmm> Never heard of this one before http://www.anss.org/
[04:42:24] <A-L-P-H-A> I remember it, cause I was with this girl, at the bank... just chilling with her... and i thought someone was kicknig my chair, only to realize no one was... and then I heard the termors.
[04:43:13] <jmkasunich> shakey rock we live on...
[04:43:52] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe... Pickering's Nuclear Power plant is on a fault line. :)
[04:45:57] <Jymmm> I wonder if the seismic sensor are linked via Sat?
[04:49:30] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20050603-020/page.asp
[04:50:32] <Jymmm> Ah! Here we go.... http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/usnsn/usnsn_spread.html
[04:51:05] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, via satellite.
[04:52:07] <Jymmm> Cool, I can then Rx directly
[05:01:09] <Jymmm> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.html
[05:02:03] <Jymmm> Maybe the planet is cracking in half ?! :-o
[05:04:36] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, for the past 5billion years.
[05:04:52] <A-L-P-H-A> sorry. 4.5billion
[05:06:43] <LawrenceG> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqsUS/Maps/US10/37.47.-130.-120.html a few shakes in the last few hours
[05:07:21] <LawrenceG> a 7 and some 3's off Cal.
[05:07:39] <A-L-P-H-A> Just wondering, do we care anymore? If a tsunami doesn't hit... there's no real issue is there?
[05:08:07] <A-L-P-H-A> unless, it is in the Nostrodamus' predictions... or are we gonna look for that too?
[05:08:49] <LawrenceG> I do.... I am currently sitting about 25m from the water and the wave was supposed to pass this area about 10 minutes ago. I'm still here...
[05:09:48] <LawrenceG> front lawn looks a little wet..... oh yea it rainng at the moment
[05:09:52] <fenn> * fenn has quit (connection reset by tsunami).
[05:10:14] <LawrenceG> goodnight... its dark here now.
[05:10:30] <jmkasunich> been dark here for hours...
[05:10:46] <A-L-P-H-A> gah. http://www.icr.org/ <-- people still believe in creationism?
[05:11:09] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder how many people still believe that the world is flat?
[05:16:13] <A-L-P-H-A> hey, I'm pretty happy with open office.
[05:16:14] <A-L-P-H-A> wow.
[05:41:28] <fenn> whew quite a lot of messages on the developer list
[05:41:59] <jmkasunich> NML is always a hot topic
[05:43:06] <fenn> heh
[05:44:00] <fenn> yesterday paul was like "i want a report on your progress in searching for a NML replacement"
[05:44:56] <fenn> i just really don't like automatically generated code
[05:45:31] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn? WHAT? don't you think C++ templating is cool??
[05:45:55] <fenn> no, i think C++ templating is really really cool
[05:46:32] <fenn> NML code goes like this.. include <stdio> ; extern C { blah blah blah (insert 5000 lines auto-generated code here } EOF
[05:46:56] <jmkasunich> lol
[05:47:14] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm. :(
[05:47:31] <A-L-P-H-A> I forgot how much I like 3 doors down.
[05:48:26] <fenn> i think the real issue is that NML needs to be separated from CMS
[05:48:51] <fenn> implementing a new messaging layer would force that to happen anyway (since CMS would be the part that is replaced
[05:49:16] <fenn> well, and NML needs a new vocabulary
[05:49:35] <A-L-P-H-A> what does NML stand for? I know another NML... but that's a porno series.
[05:49:42] <Jymmm> lol
[05:49:43] <fenn> one that goes something like send localhost.task.spindle.speed 3000
[05:49:54] <fenn> * fenn sets +i A-L-P-H-A
[05:50:06] <jmkasunich> Neutral Messaging Language
[05:50:13] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A : Let me guess, the porno series is anime?
[05:50:14] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight
[05:50:17] <A-L-P-H-A> no.
[05:50:27] <fenn> maybe that's not quite right
[05:50:31] <A-L-P-H-A> it's a lesiban series... hot chicks... the works. "No Mans Land"
[05:50:57] <A-L-P-H-A> damn, I love cuban coffee. cuban cigars... and cuban women.
[05:51:01] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A : Ok, that's better. Casue if you had said it was anime, I would have lost ALL hope for you.
[05:51:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I should make a few grand, and go there for kicks.
[05:51:13] <A-L-P-H-A> <-- HORRAY FOR Canada!
[05:51:23] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Like being a mule huh?
[05:51:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't like Anime porn. Anime's cool... but not hentia.
[05:51:37] <Jymmm> nfc
[05:51:56] <Jymmm> I just knwo it exists. I dont like anime period.
[05:53:05] <fenn> maybe more like send localdomain.localhost.joint.commanded.spindle.speed 1725
[05:53:12] <A-L-P-H-A> Anime has way better story lines than most crap on American tv.
[05:53:29] <A-L-P-H-A> it just captures your imagination, and holds it till the end.
[05:53:59] <A-L-P-H-A> Neogenisis Evangelon, Ghost in the shell, experiments serial lane.