cradek, jepler_, you there?
nobody here but us ghosts
Good evening ALL!
I just did "cvs up -dPA" as John had said, but now do I have to re-compile emc2 or can I just start using it again?
fenn: not really
bpmw_: you generally have to recompile after "cvs up"ing
Do you mean "sudo make prepare-all" ?
I don't know the details of building emc2. I'm stuck back on emc1
or "./configure" , "make", "sudo make modules_install"
I don't know either I'm a windoze guy:)
it's generally safest to start from "./configure"
How do you know if changes have been made?
"cvs up" would have printted a line for each file that was updated
not an example from emc, this line means that some changes were made in the file "axis.py" during the cvs update process:
Seems to have updated a bunch of Hal stuff and things in SRC.
So should i try "./config"
It always seems a waster to pull out my heat gun for just two wires, but it does SUCH a good job! =)
alpha is now known as A-L-P-H-A_EMC
the box works...
Now... to get the sucker working with EMC <-> geckos. I'm having some issues actually.
alpha is now known as A-L-P-H-A_emc
anonimasu: how come you have a +a beside your name?
+a means away
how's the new setup going?
well. it's INSTALLED...
but last time, I couldn't get my generic.ini file to work with my system.
I was quiet peeved.
but this is another install.
this time I copied over it, with root. Last time I dont' think it copied over.
this evening is SOOO Much nicer... it's not as humid.
in michigan? thought it was cold up there :)
I'm in Toronto.
we're south of north Michigan.
plus, nice lake effect going on here.
my brother's moving to toronto this week..
cool. smart man.
i cant believe how much crap is used for a simple hello_world program
print_f("Hello World"); ?
echo "Hello World";
[01:36:56] <fenn> http://pastebin.com/297468
and on top of that, it won't even compile!
oh heh i accidentally pasted a URL right in the middle of the file
that's why it wouldn't compile
Hi All, did the re-compile after update. now get "can't connect to NML buffers in configs/emc.nml" I checked the file is there.?
I've got no clues to that, sorry
* A-L-P-H-A_emc is back
* A-L-P-H-A_emc is back
* A-L-P-H-A_emc is away: at the workstation
A (+) next to a nick name means they have VOICE, not away.
join #freenode and look
woohoo! FREE dental cleaning by my friends GF.
See ya guys.
bpmw_, figured it out?
bpmw_ well, if you hang around, the GURUs will be coming out of the woodwork.
Says can' open /configs emc.nml
bpmw_: which emc are you using?
ok, I will. I'm kind of stuck anyway!
SWP, I'm using emc2. just did update as John suggested to get new stepper module. re-compiled and now getting error.
can you email me your emc.nml file?
Sure, I'll try.
yeah - pastenbin is good so everyone else can see :)
damn. this update is STILL going
* A-L-P-H-A_emc is back
wow. this blows. I did a complete update on the BDI4.20 and it's taking forever.
you mean apt-get upgrade?
synaptics package manager
ok - the "smart selection" option?
just that lots of things are asking for configuration settings and whatever.
so it's downloading like 350 meg of new stuff, tight?
yeah - I hate that
Ok. It's there.
right - right
it's updateing the stuff now.
ohoh! I'm on xlibs.
maybe I'm close to the end.
doh! it lied. it's not doing it in alphabetical order.
I'm K again.
well... at least I have irc here to browse.
OMG! it's DONE! it's DONE!!!
see if you get a graphical grub screen :)
bpmw_: your nml file is identical (other than a comment) to the standard one in emc2
there is probably a program missing from the emc.run script
SWPadnos: ? why? won't I?
there may be a problem
Lets reboot, and see.
Paul mentioned that there was an issue - he doesn't have it, but I do (black screen)
SWP, so what can I do?
I't should be standard I have't touched it.
can you post your .hal file as well? (and maybe emc.run)
Sure give me a few moments!
graphical grub or not?
graphical grub. yes.
but I fucked up the KB and MOUSE settings in xfree.
bah huh - bug?
so now I need to somehow get into the shell, to change the settings.
hmmm - can you see or do anything in X now?
so the mouse and KB don't work in X.
I can see fine in X.
just not type or press buttons on the mouse
I'll ssh in.
and try and fix it
good plan, even
SWP I can't seem to copy emc.run, and which .hal file did you wan't to look at?
hmmm - one sec
Alpha where in .ca are you?
Cool Im north of wpg.
SWPadnos, can you paste your XF86Config-4 file on pastebin for me?
sorry - not right now, my emc box is off
fenn, you around?
windows explorer is the most moronic piece of software ever written
I agree :)
SWP, did you figure which .hal file for me to post?
SWPadnos Nope, Program Manager is
I must need an update or something explorer dies when it's about to show the tooltip with the location of a start menu item if I hover too long
at least program manager could filter directories
bpmw_: not yet - if you can pose emc.ini, I can tell you the hal files
SWPadnos you probably have so much bullshit install that it doesn't know it's head from it's ass
that's true :)
I've probably got a record for the longest use of windows without a reinstall
something like 4.5 years
SWPadnos wanna bet?
try 6 yrs
Jymmm, you running linux?
debian 2k xp
post your XF86Config file fo rme?
through a hard drive filure (had to learn the Ghost switches to get it to keep going through read errors :)
oh, i dont run X
symantec ghost you mean?
A-L-P-H-A - hold on, I'll boot the machine
back when it was Norton Ghost, yes
SWP, its there.
I love ghost
I can rebuild in 10 minutes now...
if only grub would show me a menu :)
plop in a dvd, hit reset, come back in 10 minutes, done.
bpmw_: what kind of hardware are (were) you running?
Heh, I think 6 fans should be enough =)
You mean Computer. or machine.?
one day I'll get around to setting up the household fileserver
steppers vs. servos, etc.
you aren't registered as a developer on SourceForge, are you?
RF45 Mill with 110 oz/in steppers zylotex drive w/crossover cable
xylotex uses a different pinout than standard emc
step and dir are swapped
and it can't be changecd in emc ?
yeah I've heard that
Jymmm: sure it can but in emc1 you have to edit a source file
with emc2, it can be changed
hence emc2, and HAL
Jymmm: there's a #define XYLOTEX in emc1
I dont' want to compile, hense the name BDI
boneheads, don't install :)
k, I need to kill X before I'm able to do anything... how do I kill X?
you don't need to - hold on a mo
but you can init 3 if you like
doesn't help when the KB doesn't work
or when kdm is running as login manager
tried kill the PS, and deleteing the lock file. no go
init 3 will go to multiuser, non-graphical run level
init 5 will go back to graphical, kdm-managed logins
gui login?! Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
SWPadnos? init 3?
I did manage to kill A-L-P-H-A_emc. :D
login remotely, su to root, and type init 3
make sure it's on the remote machine
wait. why do I want to do that?
did X go away?
I have Ssh access here anyways.
you wanted to know how to kill X (without a functioning keyboard or mouse on that machine)
'ight... well... I just rebooted the machine... should take a minute to start up again.
I'll ssh back in.
bpmw_: I'm not sure what's happening - I think it's possible that you have a partial update from CVS
I'm going to check on my emc machine
Ok, How do I fix that.
and it won't even allow me to log in.
wait a while, and update from CVS again
if you use anonymous CVS, it's delayed
sometimes by a day
check the screen types and stuff - my machine has an 800x600 LCD
and integrated video (yuck)
your's is so much shorter than mine
i went into cvs dir and did "cvs up -dPA".
your original checkout was with -d:pserver:... though, I'd bet (unless you're a registered SF developer
OK - wo you're on the delayed CVS server
That was the command John told me to use.
I love remote rebooting
I hope it works now.
it's the right one to use, but it doesn't always get the very latest code
I'm getting a fresh checkout right now - I'll compile and try to run it
ok. what is the proper path "emc checkout-Prbdi4 -d emc emc2"?
for a new checkout?
cvs -d:pserver:cvs.soiurceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc co -d emc emc2
I'm am(was using) emc2jmk
ah - one sec
cvs -d:pserver:cvs.soiurceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc co -d emc-jmk emc2
that'll put it in a directory called emc-jmk
Ya, thats what I got.
oops - try spelling sourceforge dcorrectly :)
now the Mouse works fine... just not the silly KB.
without the d there either
but the pserver tells sourceforge to route you to the anonymous server, which isn't updated immediately
ok i'll give it a whirl.
it's beenn nearly 24 hours, so the changes should be there - I'm just making sure
(I have a developer account, so I get the latest from the cvs login server)
ok I'll wait.
How do I change grubs delay to be alot faster?
just need to find where that is now.
grub.conf was it.
lets see if theKB works again
grub.conf is a link to menu.lst :)
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 11 Jun 6 21:18 menu.lst -> ./grub.conf
mine's the opposite - weird
btw. init 3 didn't work.
still logs me in automatically
bpmw_: it worked for me. I'd wait until tomorrow morning, download a fresh copy, and try again
(at least, it got to the tkemc screen)
ah - do you want it to use a text login on reboot?
SWP Ok, Thanks for your Help.
SWPadnos, for now.
so I can test if it my KB.
init 0? init 1?
OK - I'm not sure how it's done on debian
Bye for now...
you should be able to run init 3 from a root shell, and have it kill X and not restart it
but it will come back on next reboot
k, I just _KILLED_ the XFree86 process.
via kill 3470 (it's PID)
I also typed init 3
did it come back?
SWEET AS CHOCOLATE!
just restored the backup file instead.
that took way too long to do anything
ok - debian does things a little differently - it's init 1 on debian (but that kills networking, I think)
heh - backups are a good thing
what's different? (other than the fact that it works)
glad the python setup did a backup
otherwise I'd be so pissed.
anyways... time TRY and get EMC working
emc1 or emc2?
good night ;)
ok, so where's this crossover (cable) documented?
xylotex vs. emc pinouts?
uh - xylotex.com?
you're leaving SWPadnos ?
I probably will - I've been staying up too late lately :)
EMC is claiming to be running, but no pulses are sent out
this shoudl be running onLPT1 right?
shit, unless I got the step and dir pins wrong/
Jymmm: the wiki
yep - http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?XylotexBoard
A-L-P-H-A: what are you doing to get pulses, and how are you looking for them?
well... this is fun.
I'm looking for pulses, via actuallymoving
ah - a lot has to go right for that to happen :)
this is so difficult to setup.
it's involved, but not too complex
so pin2 is supposed to be X Direction? and pin3 the step pulse for X?
well... I see that being a problem. :D
gotta reverse all the wiring now.
with emc2, you can just use the xylotex pinout .hal file :)
what else do I need to test for if _that_ doesn't work?
have you had emc working before?
what were you using on this machine?
was that you last night? (so hard to remember)
yes it was - you used pastebin
try swapping the wires on X only, then do an X move, and see if it works
if the motor moves, then you're most of the way there
I'll do that.
after I find my screw driver.
to move a motor, take the machine out of E-Stop, and set the machine ON (the two upper left buttons in tkemc)
then click on the X display, and use hte jog controls
just changed it, loading emc now. :D
I gather something moved? :)
SWPadnos, so coming up to Toronto??????
I owe you some beers.
<-- POOR... but hopefully EMC will make me a little richer.
heh - save the money for a trip to Peoria :)
I should start a wiki page.
checklist for emc1.
check your pinout
1.) check your pinout.
2.) configure generic.ini to your desire (elab on this)
3) make sure you have access to IRC ;)
well - good night. have fun with the machine
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
wow, running emc, lags EVERYTHING else
wow. working. kinda.
now I'm really asleep :)
it's not that.
it's my cgode
it's flaking out on it.
but worked fine in turbocnc.
the gcode flakes out is this. http://pastebin.com/297525
emc is more of a resource hog htan turbocnc
I was using it to calibrate the backlash.
line 7, is where I read the backlash. line 5 is where I zero the indicator
where does the system slow down?
it faults, and then tells me axis1 has some sort of error.
let me go type what that error is
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
Error: axis 1 following error
stops on g00 y0.005 after g91
what are the input_scale and output_scale for [AXIS_1]?
says minimilltaskintf.cc 1015: Error on axis 1.
also, what is MIN_FERROR (I think)?
let me post that generic.ini file.
my gah... the system lags like hell.
I'll live. :
I'd bet a longer PERIOD would help significant;y
if it lags whenever emc is running, it's PERIOD
but won't that affect the smoothness of the motion?
only if you need a faster step rate than your machine can handle
in which case, you have problems anyway
check pastebin.com is there is on by alpha/
it's not refreshing for me.
but I did submit
I have it
[04:03:28] <alpha_emc> http://pastebin.com/297527
so axis 0 is OK? (no following errors?)
movements are being made on all 3 axis (which is good).
I haven't tested X.
I was testing Y.
the same code will be used to test X, but I just change Y to X to get the backlash.
ok - hold on a sec
the error message isn't very descript.
well - it means the axis didn't follow the position profile it was supposed to
I'm not sure what to change - it's either FERROR, MIN_FERROR, or deadband, but I'm not sure which
or possibly MAX_ERROR
how so? I mean, it's just to move in a straight line, 0.01" in one direction. straight.
I guess I could wait till morning
and see if les, paul, or ray can help me out.
it's probably a problem with some tolerance being zero
you're trying to calibrate backlash?
fenn, I was.
all I did was move it in one direction a little, and then zero the indicator, move it a little more, and move it back the same distance, and measure the backlash.
absolute coordinate mode
hmm i've never used any g9x stuff
90 and 91 can be useful, especially for macros (91 is relative movement mode)
sorry - I should have said movement, not coordinate mode
absolute and incremental movements.
well. the gcode is commented. http://pastebin.com/297525
so g91 X1 means go +1 in the x direction?
G91 changes the mode to incremental
and G0/1 Y1 moves Y 1unit in the positive direction
so yes - it means move one inch to the right (G91 G1 X1)
(you just missed the G1 :) )
A-L-P-H-A: comment out the MIN_FERROR lines
min error is already 0.010"... but I'll try that.
that's not what it's used for :)
about to edit it now
check the sherline integrator handbook, page 54
SWPadnos, so how'd you know it was that?
or just a hunch?
like I've got NO clue even how to trouble shoot EMC.
(from the handbook)
if the MIN_FERROR value is specified, then the max error allowed is proportional to the speed, and FERROR is the amount at MAX_VELOCITY
but MIN_FERROR is the minimum it will ever have
it just looked like a good spot to poke around
(he's psychic, is what he's saying)
I knew you'd say that
of course you did
OK - *now* I'm going to bed
(no ValarQ, it's not you :) )
thanks for all the helps SWPadnos
see you all later
geez what time is it in sweden?
I hope it keeps working ;)
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
I think it's like 7am
now it's telling me I can't job.
must be in manual mode.
wouldn't it be nice, if the error messages told you how to go about doing what you want to do? instead of just saying "can't do it in this mode"
yeah that's annoying as hell
also wish i could just press numbers on the keypad to move it instead of clicking a little +/- button
that would be a nice GUI change as well.
well... backlash is 0.007 at that spot.
must be because of how tight the jib is.
that's 1 axis done!
just another to go.
tight gibs isn't really a good thing
it hurts precision more than it helps
how should I do the jibs then?
I dunno how tight they should be.
this has screws that push on the gib?
or just one screw?
1 screw that pushes the jib in... and 2 more screws that push it against the ways (they're locks I think)
well, if it points perpendicular to the axis movement, i just tighten them finger-tight and tighten the locknut
i've never had a one-screw adjuster
i'd assume about the same thouhg
I think I'll worry about the system tomorrow. it's 12:38am now.
write gcode instead.
[05:40:07] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.livescience.com/technology/destroy_earth_mp.html
<-- fun read.
I dont compile, what makes you think I read?
Fine.... I read it. My only comment... DUH! Now you know why I don't read.
Man has been around a few thousand years. The planet, a few billion. Do they REALLY think we're gonna fsck it up in respect to green house adn other such things? NOT!
Jymmm... it was entertaining... did your read the top 10?
Jymmm, you suck. :P
you're so no fun
A-L-P-H-A: what was the point of that page?
there was only one entry in the top 10
fenn, no there are lots.
i only see the simultaneous non-existence method
oh now i see, nevermind
my ignorance is showing
i've got to cover it up somehow
fenn: Throw a towel over it?
the Douglas Adams way :)
hmm, halcmd sure reports signals in a funny way...
i'm working on a design document for emc2
trying to hash out how the whole thing should look from a birds eye view
[08:35:08] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CommandChain
its based on what SWP, rayh and I were talking about last week
its very rough right now
"that's the point of a modular system, silly!", heh
well, it's true!
and i know someone's gonna say that
need to learn how to use Dia
why not graphviz?
maybe i'll use crapplication :0
egad i hope i never have to deal with stuff that complicated-looking
ow, that halcmd output really isn't good for my health :(
what is meant by the value '1 (01)' (u8)?
well, u8 is the unsigned hal integer with 8 bits
the data type
how do you get halcmd to do anything?
bash: ./halcmd.o: cannot execute binary file
hmm where'd those come from i wonder
i'm using a regular expression to melt together '1' and '(01)'
doesn't look good thought...
what module is causing 1 (01) (u8)
i don't know how i should do the graphical presentation of the signals thought
like lines on a circuit board :)
what do you mean?
how to label them?
ValarQ: Pipe it through gnuplot?
that looks neato, but, not what we're talking about
Good, Then I can go back to sleep. :)
sounds like a good idea
its past my bedtime
well, a signal can be connected to more than one pin
doh! siggen.0.square is float, not bit
* A-L-P-H-A pokes fenn
wow, pretty flowcharts.
when do I get to see state diagrams?
alpha, you seen this? http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.png
can't make out stuff... craps too small
trying to make us jealous with your fancy monitor, huh?
* ValarQ is updating the shot
I have three 19" monitors.
Time: 05:42:18 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (0% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 834/1024MB (81.45%), C: 41.42gb of 75.42gb free, D: 0gb of 0gb free, N: 14.81gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 17hrs 24mins 44secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 12hrs 48mins 50secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
good lord, 372 gb?
fenn: reload :)
on that drive.
I have an external 80 gig.
the C drive is actually a 120gig.
[09:44:34] <ValarQ> http://soth.warrenb.net/rm2.jpg
but it's partitioned with linux on it.
i also used to have dual-boot
then i removed fbsd and ran only gentoo on this machine :)
ValarQ: Show off, Throw a towel over it.. :)
ValarQ: Or stick it in a crate and send it to me. :)
Phydbleep: it isn't mine actually...
A-L-P-H-A: solved with your NIC ?
ValarQ: now you just need to add a green background and do IC's with white on black :)
and got emc1 to work as well.
fenn: green? why?
ValarQ: like a circuit board
nevermind. back to work! hyah!
almost 6am... I think time to sleep
./halcmd setp stepgen.0.dirhold 5
02 u8 -W 5 (05) stepgen.0.dirhold
dunno what the (05) is there for
02 u8 -W 10 (0A) stepgen.0.dirhold
it's hex value
it's destroying the table thought
if you interpret it like a space separated table those rows gets longer
yeah, i'm killing it with an regular expression
i'm submitting a feature request for halcmd --shell mode
or remove that whitespace
wow sf is really slow
but it's not that big deal, it can be done with a re
i'll mention it
you could show different colors for different pin types
float=yellow, bit=black, u8=magenta etc
paul_c: are you ?
arg SF went down right before i hit "send"
jacky^ is now known as jacky^afk
jacky^afk is now known as jacky^
yay, my program can make something
(a mess to be exactly)
/join #emc I supposed whoever had put down C++ compared to
C was also probably a Unix user.
There's some right arses around....
at least i think C++ is overrated
paul_c: i've some problem in BDI
i'm using bdi 4.20
cpu is celeron 800 mhz, 256 mb ram, 16 mb video
sometime the mini application crash without apparent reason :\
can't find any log file..
paul_c: is there a way to debug it ?
or find the reason ?
jacky^: what if you run tkemc?
tkemc seem work fine
jacky^: and mini crashes?
but i like the backplot function
or on some stuff only?
during the work :\
you might want to try axis
you're running bdi..right?
yes, bdi 4.20
ValarQ: how's stuff?
alex_joni: it's ok
change tkemc (or mini) to axis
DISPLAY = axis
alex_joni: i'm working on my crap :)
ValarQ: any progress?
okay alex_joni , thanks !
seen that already
I just loked
ValarQ: afaik there are some more pins on parport
alex_joni: your not fooled by your browser cache?
ValarQ: nope, seen the 2 sigs ;)
alex_joni: ok :)
alex_joni: alex_joni more pins?
ValarQ: parport has some more out pins
alex_joni: thats a parameter
ahh ok then
i'm looking at the halcmd output right now
i was thinking about autogenerating a form for the parameters
dialog with a list of inputwidgets
some dynamic thingie...
ValarQ: keep it simple though
for the user I mean
thats the tricky part
i know ;)
it's just a wrapper to halcmd so that sets some limits
does it run fast?
I wonder how much time it takes to parse the output from halcmd every time
or you use a buffer?
jacky^: let me know if you like axis
i have just dumped an output to a file
it's not quite realtime...
doesn't need to be
maybe i could use a listening version of halcmd
that only reports mayor changes
but.. I think it's ok if it checks by request
yeah, i should get the crap useful first
enhance the crap
then i add some extra crap :)
at least people don't get to high expectations with my program naming :)
alex_joni: i like axes, but it also freezed :\ mouse is not responding to my click :(
jacky^: so it didn't crash
dmesg says some notices
the whole system freezes
RTAI[sched_lxrt]: timer setup=1676 ns, resched latency=2514 ns.
jacky^: was this during a mvoe?
jacky^: that's ok
****** WARNING: GLOBAL HEAP NEITHER SHARABLE NOR USABLE FROM USER SPACE (use the vmalloc option for RTAI malloc) *****
alex_joni: i just tried to run axes
and it freezed
others apps are working
maybe smthg wrong with that file?
is it big?
can you send me the file?
i just tried to open
before open the file
so, the problem is not on the display choosed
i want to make a memory test now
memtester should be ok
Where are you guys that it is evening allready?
hi Paul, what you up to lately
tackling maths or communications?
bpmw - Steve is in VA,USA Paul is in UK
I took a look at trajectory.h just now
les: To get the best out of it, you need to run it through doxygen and latex
Ok, that makes sense then. Its only 8:45am here in central Canada.
not familiar with that but I will google it.
I'm just curious, as to how big Emc is. Omiting little Sherline type mills How many machines do you think are using Emc?
very difficult number to even estimate
Are we talking Hundreds or Thousands?
03paul_c * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/ (prflib.h trajectory.h): Commit header file for assorted library routines used by the new trajectory planner.
'pends if you include the emc derivatives in that calculation.
conservative guestimate would be 200-300
<wild guess> world wide, several thousand <\wild guess>
Wow, Thats quite a few, I know I am very impressed with it, Even with the few problems I've had. It would not be possible for me to be CnC'n without EMC and all the support I've gotten here!!!
What are you running with it?
A RF45 Mill, but my steppers are way to small. I'm saving up for Mega Oz/in ones.
With the steppers I have now I can only mill at 2IPM.
les: Q: Do you see anything wrong with using cubic interpolation on velocity and ignoring position all together ?
bpmw_: ouch! I thought my 8ipm (before I made new drivers) was bad
cubic on velocity would be quartic on position....I think there might be some end condition problems as with all even order position polynomials
YA I know but steppers (110 oz/in) were free. And it got machine working. Now I can save up for some 1065 oz/in ones.
OK... Plan B. run Quintic blending and aim for zero acceleration at the way points.
bpmw_: I've got a couple of 1800 oz-in steppers for sale :)
(but they probably weigh more than your mill :) )
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
SWP How Much? need Nema 34.
heh - these are more like NEMA 66
To much work to remake all the motor mounts and stuff, But thanks any way.
plus, they're 20 kilos each
(that's why they're for sale - they're too big for a Bridgeport :) )
Thats Ok my mill weighs 850 lbs.
ah - right - the "mini mill", not the "desktop mill"
What the heck were the off of?
not sure - could have been a conveyor
they're Slo-Syn SS1800
so they're AC motors and steppers
Sorry to big for me!
72 RPM @ 60 Hz
yeah - too big for just about anything
plus the voltage spec is like 9.5V, so they would be pretty useless with any reasonable stepper drive (like a Gecko)
I bought them before I knew anything
oh - they are NEMA 66 ;)
Well I should do some work today and not play on puter. Catch ya all later!
03paul_c * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/prflib.h: Simplistic calc for blend times.
Nm/In-lb/Oz-In conversion chart --> http://www.wihatools.com/torqueConversion.pdf
* paul_c ponders a suitable function name....
it's a funky little calc to limit jerk....
prf_hedan() is top of the list at the mo...
For his comment: I supposed whoever had put down C++ compared to C was also probably a Unix user.
NukeTheJerk() is too C++...
true - how about jerk_limit()
hrmmm.... It returns Clinton
Jymmm: if you have "units" installed on your Linux machine, you also have a torque converter. Here's how to convert from oz-in to Nm:
$ units "184 oz-in gravity" "N-m"
no - not lim(jerk->infinity)
(which would return Bush anyway :) )
nope... That's a blair
it exhibits Brit / American duality
only Schroedinger's cat can decide who it is at any given moment
Thought that was Monica.
oh - I forgot about her
Hmm looking at pc oscopes
I think I need to buy one
pc based scopes generally suck when compared to standalones
I don't like the 8 bit resolution
what's your budget, and what kind of signals do you want to look at?
$1000 or so...(les is better) and fast enough to do 100 MHz and see logic glitches
how many channels?
oh 2 will do I guess
also want to use it for signal analysis
there are three major problems with PC based scopes that I've seen (these may no longer be true - I haven't researched them in a couple of years)
first, you generally get much worse triggering capability in a PC scope
second, you usually lose realtime screen updates
third, though they tout higher resolution (like 10 or 12 bit), it's usually only at slower acquisition speeds
how about this one...it's open source
[16:45:51] <les> http://www.bitscope.com/
there's always a tradeoff between resolution and bandwidth, as well
not real fast...
[16:46:54] <paul_c> http://www.picotech.com/high-resolution-oscilloscope.html
bitscope sounds interesting
not high enough bandwidth
(the picotech ones)
bitscope says 50Ms/s logic, 40Ms/s analog
still too low for your needs
and the bitscopes as well - too slow for glitch capture
at least they have 100 MHz analog bandwidth though
also, they capture, then transfer to the PC for display - you can't tweak a trigger level while looking at the trace - it just doesn't work that way
I don't think you'll fiund
but you have to buy Winders
I don't think you'll find what you want, considering the price range
you also should look into a combined analog / digital scope
(ie, one with a couple of analog channels and 16 or so logic inputs)
but they start at $6k or so
[16:52:07] <paul_c> http://www.cleverscope.com/products/cs328.php
that one looks pretty good, except for the slow sample rate - it's only good for roughly 10 MHz glitch capture
[16:53:16] <paul_c> http://home.planet.nl/~m.f.hajer/scope2k.htm
well the bitscope is slow, but has 8 digital and perhaps better near RT display
lol at scope2k4
damned CTRL-W bug
I had a $20k+ Tek on chicago
now just an old bk non storage scope
you can get pretty damned good stuff from Agilent for $8k or less
I'm looking to upgrade my 2+16 channel, 100 MHz scope sometime soon
Well I need something if I continue to do this consulting stuff
yeah - that's what I found out a few years ago :)
I should not be too cheap
[16:57:03] <paul_c> http://www.etcsk.com/products/m621/index.php?lang=eng
with what I am charging
[16:57:11] <SWPadnos> http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-536897735.536905491/pd.html
(if that doesn't work, go to test instruments / scopes and logic analyzers / 6000 series)
I am trying to develop a new electrostatic spray gun electronic system
yeah those are nice
I have the previous model - a 54622D
I am currently doing a bit of transmission line stuff
those 6000 series ones are *amazingly* nice
I played with one at the Embedded Systems conference
I also need to store the files to do signal analysis...coherence, correlation, etc
the modern scopes have ethernet ports, and can save traces
yeah...the TEK had that
check that out though, because some save the displayed data, and others the raw data
not much difference with a 2ksample buffer, but the agilents have 1M or more, so it's important
the scopes also do various functions themselves, like FFT and other data-related statistics
also I need to get the electronics out of the machine shop
that etcsk unit is pretty nice, except for the low sampling rate
About ready for another out building
I'm just about ready to go to Costco and get one of the 8x8 plastic sheds :)
ah...bitscope has a scope hooked up in sydney that I can run on the internet...think i'll try it
[17:06:52] <les> http://www.bitscope.com/software/?p=demo
I will prob find it too slow
but we'll see
bbiaw and thanks
Hi, Has John K. been around yet?
* A-L-P-H-A blinks.
way, way too early for jmk.!
no, but les, and SWPadnos are around.
as is paul_c.
[18:05:55] <les> bbiaw
Ok, I'll look for him tonight
so I lied.
SWPadnos ewwwwwwww plastic sheds... yuck!
SWPadnos They like to fall apart rather quickly. Especially with thermal expansion.
I want it now damnit! lol
bah - I hate it when people don't hire you for a job, then they call you because they don't know what they're doing :(
and you still don't have the job
They said 'no thanks', then called you thinking you're someone else?
nope - they said "you need to do this other stuff, so we're not taking you to Puerto Rico"
then called me because they don't know how to use the equipment
yes - BASTARDS!
well - at least I've gotten to go to England, Scotland, Wales, Mexico City, and numerous places in the US on their dime :)
SWPadnos: Solution.. Next time they call tell them "So sorry.. Can't read the dials from here... I guess you'll have to fly me out there..."
heh - I just got to call the customer a bonehead, so there are perks
(not that I can't anyway...)
well looked at pc scopes enough I think
If calling them a bonehead is a perk, does getting to yell "Dumbass!" at them qualify as a bonus?
the Pico seems to be the best
Hi jacky^^, What's up?
les did you check out the router I bought? I wanted you two cents
the craftman 1.5 hp?
les no, http://sears.com
then search for 926620
les : For $30/yr they'll sell you a instant replacement warranty =)
well, looks ok. ( I always use porter cable)
les The one they has was 1.75 HP porter cable
I have a smaller PC 690 for light off hand work
Yep, that was the one they had
all are a bit noisy except for the bosch
I figured the extra HP wouldn't hurt, plus the variable speed
your apartment neighbors are gonna love you
do some routing at 2 am!
lol, I wish.
do some sheet metal.
les why do you think I was asking so much about les absorsion and not just containment
* Phydbleep did not know that "Les == Noise"
you havn't seen my music room
let's see...42 cubic feet of speaker....
les: Got you beat.. Over 60cu/ft of speaker tied to the TV. :)
That does have me beat.
wait...I can get you on power....maybe
56cu/ft of it as 2 speaker towers.... Anybody want to buy a pair of speakers?
total continuous power capability?
les: TDL.. Too Damn Loud..
10 watts in == Pain in a 400sq/ft room
I have about 3000W rms...but must use 2 power circuits
yes 10 w is plenty average
I've never been able to get these to >5% rated power without the neighbors wanting to know when the party is.
I still have some altec horns up....1 watt 1 meter is 111 dba.
but the rest is about 95
les: The horns in these are Emilar 175-16's.
let me look that up
The main woofers are Cerwin Vega 189e's
I've heard of Cerwin Vega. :D but never Emilar.
les: The Emilars are ~ $150/driver + $100/horn.
those don't sound too expensive. [pardon the pun]
les: These were the stage-stacks for a band that a freind of mine was in..
The altec a7 horns were horribly expensive in their day
or at least I thought so
There's a pair of 200W mono amps to go with them, But I've always been afraid to try them without 4 dozen donuts on hand for the cops that would show up. :)
I run the horns with a hafler 100
the low stuff uses Alesis and my own design
I am doing audio research again now...well kinda...50-100 khz
since it will catch things on fire if focused
100 acoustic watts!!!!!
now I must generate electricity with that
I need 6 watts
I have to make a microphone that puts out 6 watts power!
[19:15:51] <SWPadnos> http://www.imasonic.com/Medical/TMEx1-Mono.php
les: What frequency response do you need?
this stuff will be at only one frequency
* Phydbleep has a horrid vision of les screaming into a microphone and setting half of Georgia on fire..
I am working with a whistle really
les: It's better than trans-colonic cranial therapy. :)
hmm - for a roughing endmill, 5/8 diameter, cutting aluminum, does ~3667 RPM, ~73 IPM feed, and ~1/8" depth sound right?
a hartmann whistle...ever heard of it?
It's a type of atomizer isn't it?
SWP in the ballpark
SWPadnos, let me punch it in.
thanks - 1.5HP spindle too
no flood coolant available though
It is a supersonic flow compressed air whistle that can generate hundreds of watts of acoustic energy
how many flute?
flux at the resonator open end is several thousand watts per cm 2
les: I prefer to use sub-sonics with high power. :)
heh - need the couch shakers
SWPadnos, what's the desired chip depth?
I'm thinking a bit more - it is a rougher/finisher with chipbreak, and I'm hogging out a lot of metal
though I did use .005 in my calculations
well... going 600SFM... you'd be taking out 0.01" chips at 146ipm.
les: Hehehe... 86 feet of 4" pipe on the exhaust of a 350 Chevy at 4k rpm makes a lovely 7Hz pipe organ.. :)
I'm not sure I can crank fast enough to keep up with that, though :)
I can't even crank at 72 IPM :)
at 0.005" chip size, is what you'd be going at at 73IPM.
OK - I just wanted to make sure I was in the ballpark - I jhad one of the endmills snap in half a couple days ago
SWPadnos, hardspot in the alu?
nope - I had the machine set for a 1.5" diameter, 6-flute cutter, so the RPMs were really low
and I was pushing the mill down into the material (setting the depth on the quill)
it just went "tink", and I had a stub length mill
yes - it was probably defective, but for $10 on ebay, I don't think there's much I can do about it
Too slow on the revs, too fast on the feed?
oh... alpha_emc is already there.
slow revs, manuallt pressing down - didn't feel any force, soI don't know
must have had a crack in it...those are not easy to break
not at 5/8 diameter :)
Yeah, Sounds defective.
at least it was low RPM, and I was wearing a full face shield
yikes... leather backed chair, without a shirt on is a shocking surprise.
the bottom half of the bit just fell off
could have been dropped.
I wear safety glasses, but usually not with the side shields
they were in the original packaging when I got them, but who knows (I might have dropped it)
wear goggles when grinding though
I got the face shield because I have long hair :)
plus glasses always fg up on me
hear comes the lag.
doo doo do doo doo
I probably should adjust that period setting in the ini file.
and I say, it's alright
* Phydbleep just uses the Remington/Smith&Wesson Z87 shooting glasses with the peripheral wrap-around.
how doI reverse the direction of an axis?
I have to get something like that since I am working on a flintlock
my Z axis goes the wrong direction.
alpha_emc: Reverse the motor drive phasing.
changethe sign of AXIS_3 INPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_SCALE
a sign change....in the .ini
A-L-P-H-A: does pastebin have a search feature?
I don't think so.
hmmm - bummer - it would be a nice thing to have
search through all the pastes? or just that page?
if it's just that page, use the browser search
.000024 should be fine on your machine
INPUT_SCALE = 32000.000 0
OUTPUT_SCALE = 32000.000 0.000
-32000.000 0 for both?
-32000 0 for both
and how come when I calibrate, the backlash setting isn't saved?
it seemed like I had to manually go in to the ini file, and put that value in myself.
you do have to do that
that's why people don't like EMC - you have to edit text files to configure it :)
time to measure the backlash on the X, and do a test part.
SWPadnos if it was ONE file you had to edit, that would be cool.
les : fire suit like firefighter wear =)
at least the first time you load it
well - it is one file
it just has 600 things in it
sounds like httpd.conf
but 60% of httpd.conf is comments
more like win.ini
in fact, that's the format it uses
(sections in , name=value pairs withing sections)
ok, do I get lazy and use the 2000' of CAT5 I have or run across town and pick up some 4 conductor 18ga
what's the subroutine code # and return code?
SWPadnos : driver to stepper for testing
subroutine - you mean in EMC?
as in gcode. in emc
ah - for testing, use the CAT5
I don't think emc does subroutines (could be wrong though)
were those flow-control changes incorporated in EMC? Sigh, I think that's too bad.
KR or KL just did some work on that, but I'm not sure of the disposition of the code
I guess I can solder up the damn cross over for xyltex & emc
emc1 or emc2?
well, I wanted to just dl an ISO, so it be emc1
you can recompile emc1 for xylotex, or configure emc2 for it
unless someone knows a way to boot from a floppy, do a net install from cvs for emc2
if there's a debian netinstall, it should work for emc, but it will be a very large PITA
and that's what I'm trying to avoid
download a BDI 4.xx CD
BDI is distro + emc1. correct?
and distro being RH or debian based?
Jymmm: Add a cd drive to the box temporarily?
debian / kde
Phydbleep it has a cd drive
and a net connection?
yep, dhcp on the router
OK - you hsuold have no troubles
* Phydbleep fails to see the problem then..
I have bdi-4.20.iso
it really looks like there isn't a subroutine... like call line number XXX and then at the end of that block return to original line.
the procedure for getting to the stage of compiling is long, but pretty straightforward
Unless your burner has died..
Hmmm...for the $1000 price of that pico pc scope thing I could buy a pretty nice used agilent or something , huh?
alpha_emc: no - there was recent work on that, but it broke other things
les: probably not, at least not a recent one
'ight, well... I can easily paste the code. but still. yikes.
they tend to hold value for a long time
les: I can get you a Tektronix 7613(?) w/ a 7L12 for that kind of money.
Phydbleep on the BDI, isn't emc1 already complied?
now I'll have to cut and paste my code. the hackary.
it is compiled, but if you want to get updates from CVS, or change it to the xylotex pinout, you need to be able to recompile
SWPadnos is source already on the BDI image?
Jymmm: Yeah, And the BDI should have apt-get and all the other things you need to network/download/compile.
lots of scopes on ebay
not installed, but there may be a tarball (I can't remember)
les you looking for a new scope?
it's a single CVS command to get it though
how do I share directories in linux? Say I want to use windows filesharing to access my gcode folder?
A-L-P-H-A when you set it up, just use the encryption, it'll make it easier if you connect thru multiple machines.
or to do it from the Linux box, open a Konquerer window, and type in smb:// as the location
(or lan:// for UNIX shares)
A-L-P-H-A : go ahead and install SWAT too. it'll make the configuration much easier.
A-L-P-H-A just disable SWAT when your done.
* Phydbleep sees Jehovah's Witnesses coming down the block and digs out the stack of "Hell Money"..
I want to share ~/gcode on my network.ftpd
configuring samba via webmin (if you have that already) is just icky.
Phydbleep Just introduce them to YOUR religion
I'm figuring just making an ftpd server run.
A-L-P-H-A SAMBA is very sweet
"Do you know that you're going to Hell unless you worship the same way we do?" .. I pull out a stack of Hell-Money and tell them "It's OK.. I've got lunch money and cabfare back." :)
you can even use the printers connected to your M$ boxes too if you wanted.
Jymmm: I ran a set (JW's) off ~ 4 years ago.. I was fighting with a PC and started to an exorcism by sacrificing a rubber-chicken.. :)
Phydbleep : Just hand them a printout of this http://www.lulu.com/satansbible
[20:00:40] <A-L-P-H-A> http://us3.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/install.html#smbconfminimal
<-- WOW? that's it?
Phydbleep : Heh, just answer the door with a bloddy butcher knife in hand. Just becasue you were preping tonights dinner doesn't mean you were being agressive.
A-L-P-H-A Just scroll up and read what I said.
A-L-P-H-A 'Password Checking' http://us1.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/ServerType.html#id2540448
A-L-P-H-A you can setup all your M$ boxes to use plain-text, or you can setup samba to use encryption. The later is a tad pita, but more convient in the long run.
if you use PT, you have to edit the registry on EVERY M4 box
yeah, the faq sure makes it clear you don't want to use plaintext
in fact it clarifies some problems I've been having at home with my XP machine :-P
jepler_ installed SP2 huh? (sucker)
Hey, I was a sucker from the moment I booted XP
(it's for the games, honest)
jepler_ Yeah, and you read playboy for the pcitures too huh?!
jepler_ tis ok, I'm not a gamer.
jacky^ So, did oyu find me a cute italian girl I can call my own yet?
Jymmm: sure !
jacky^ preferably with a keychain mute button =)
come here and youll find ten or more :)
ive seen something somwhere.. wait..
Well, I' like em a like fiesty, but damn... they can nag/bitch up a storm and jsut never ever stop!
k, I can't seem to get any of linux's (debian) crap working. ftpd-ssl, ftpd, or samba.
that was fun
Jymmm: i found a girl with a button !
[20:18:37] <jacky^> http://www.androidworld.com/prod19.htm
can someone recommend an H-bridge circuit with discrete transistors that accepts logic-level inputs?
jepler_: ask to Phydbleep , he sure know
jepler_: my first guess is to use darlingtons - NPN on the bottom and PNP on the top, and drive the top ones with NPNs to translate the voltage to drive the PNPs
jepler_: why use discrete instead of something like L298?
cradek: Because L298 is limited to 50V?
jepler_: that's true, it's hard to find much higher
when I see you next I'll draw what I'm thinking of
haw I am driving the cat nuts.
[20:36:25] <les> http://www.research.att.com/projects/tts/demo.html
jacky^ Thanks (I think), but I dont think she's very fiesty
ok, we can find much better ;)
jepler_: Use FET's.. I have a couple of H-bridge circuits somewhere for IRF (International Rectifier) part #'s..
without button :\
* robin_sz is a bit wet
left the kids in the shower, they blocked the plug hole. you can guess the rest, my first sign of trouble was the water pouring out of the kitchen light fittings
I thought you meant storms, like we have at the moment
this is like a storm
heh - yeah. Kids are like that, I hear.
ahh feck .. there is water all running out of the larder too.
I really have a major major gripe about linux and OSS in general. Yes it _just_ works... but to get to that point is an ordeal. While Apple and M$ make it easier, and more intuitive to accomplish tasks. Such as network file sharing, or an FTPD.
robin_sz: Didn't the people that put that together ever hear of an overflow drain?
A-L-P-H-A: have you tried the KDE control center for SMB setup?
no, but in the cli the entire time
"Regular Developer's meetings every Sunday between 14:00 & 18:00 GMT"
brb... I'll try _that_
how can a developer be regular?
* jacky^ some weblamer tried to hack my system... bah !
ValarQ, they eat oatmeal rasin cookies?
* jacky^ should change actual passwd : enter to something more complex..
hmmm - kcontrol doesn't do server setup - hmmm
me? trying to get samba to work!
Phydbleep: AN OVERFLOW? in a shower?
thats unheard of in the UK at least
I mean, as a server
alpha_emc: sounds challenging
robin_sz: Yeah.. Or a floor drain outside of it.
first floor, wooden floor
as I can go smb://basement and I can access my workstation. but not in reverse
alpha_emc: allow me to help ...
as I had this just 3 days ago
* SWPadnos listens carefully
alpha_emc: Did you set up smb/sharing on BOTH ends?
Phydbleep, I thought I did.
alpha_emc : Did you read passwords.txt ?
you have SWAT running on prt 901?
I'm giving UP for now... and resorting to disks
alpha_emc: 'service smb status' on both machines.
"service" command not found
alpha_emc: '/sbin/service smb status' ?
'ps -uawx | grep smbd'
there's TWO smbd, and one nmdb
alpha_emc: that's ok
you know you have to explicitly enable the users
apt-get install swat
and make the samba browseable?
but I can't go to http://localhost:901
do I have to reboot or something to make it work?
alpha_emc: it needs to be started
usually swat is started from inetx (or xinetd)
debian. the BDI 4.20
right at the end is an entry for swat
# swat is the Samba Web Administration Tool
swat stream tcp nowait.400 root /usr/sbin/swat swat
I added that manually myself.
I haven't started it, nor remember how to restart inetd
swat stream tcp nowait.400 root /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/swat
/etc/init.d/inetd restart to restart it
alpha_emc: '/etc/rc.d/init.d/xintetd restart' ?
k, swat's started.
Phydbleep, , it's inetd, not the X one.
Or does that only work on RH systems?
alpha_emc: killall -HUP inetd
should work on any system using inetd
or killall -HUP xinetd
HUP tells it to reread config files
alpha_emc: xinetd on RH/FC systems. :)
"Hang UP" - from the serial modem days
I'm in swat right now... just trying to make it out.
I'm in my "share1" share...
SWPadnos: you hang up
right in swat ... globals ... browse options .. local master .. yes
like windows was regocnizing the thing, but wasn't showing me anything
robin_sz, what part in browse options?
the local master part?
there is no local master thing
oh, there is in mine
I'm running samba 3.0.14a-Debian
let me go back to my workstation
so am i
My workstation is called "BASEMENT". So in windows start -> run -> "\\192.168.2.189" to attempt to make an samba connection.
now it askes for a user name and password
my login on the EMC box is 'alpha'
so I type in alpha, and my password, but then rejects it... and changes alpha to "BASEMENT\alpha"
I just needed to add a user.
swat makes things much easier.
A-L-P-H-A: smbpasswd -a new_user
if you wanna go commandline
that _WAS_ not working.
should work ;)
just kept on giving me the help thing.
the help display
hmmm..maybe it's not -a anymore?
wait - where do you add the user (in swat)?
SWPadnos, yes in swap
yeah, you have to explicitly enable the users
ah - add names to the valid users field
far right ..
that took 2h 15m to get working.
you clicky people
WOW... I'm SO freak'n productive.
A-L-P-H-A: I spent a bit moretime tweaking my samba
but then again
meanwhile, I could just copied it to a disk, edited it, copy it back. It took ~30 seconds to do the changes.
30secons versus 2h15m.
it's a PDC for 15 workstations, about 40 shares, roaming profiles (win9x, xp)
* robin_sz bought XP home
argh. I so want to hurt something warm and fuzzy... like a bunny.
robin_sz: that's ok
xp home doesnt do pDC
robin_sz... wanna make it XP Pro lite?
it hurts when you buy Office
hmmm - I still get "incorrect password"
SWPadnos: you're incorrect
I guess so
the password is ok ;)
SWPadnos: you did add user ok? and then from status did a "restart all" ?
oh - it must be the "or unknown username" :)
I guess the "restart" would help :)
I didn't restart.
clicky click status and restart all
A-L-P-H-A: does XP pro lite support domain logon?
hmmm - looking at smb.conf, it looks like the users weren't added (even though SWAT had said they were)
robin_sz: domain logon is smthg win9x did best
you have to stop/start samba after a config change
xp pro sucks at it
it is a lot better than xp home (as that doesn't work at all)
hot day. cold beer. so good.
right.. finished my presentation
alpha_emc: we had a cold day today
last week we had 30+C, today it was about 8 C
* alex_joni goes to bed
and .. swat'ing
it is kind of funny to be using SWAT via firefox running on my CNC machine, but using Cygwin/X to actually view the program :)
and not be able to get anywhere with it :)
I must say I found my SWAT'ing trouble free
well - I have gotten somewhere - I can now see it in the Windows network browser
debian sarge, it just "happened"
I just can't log in from the windoes machine
is the username / password pair supposed to be the same as a unix user / password?
and you entered a new username, with passwords and hit add new user?
mmm, not necessarily
no - I entered the name, and didn't enter a password
k, emc is sooooooooo smooth.
continuous motion ROCKS!
lookahead commands. ZERO pause.
oh, I'm a happy happy camper.
I'm just cutting air right now, and watching it go
this is segmot?
the segment based trajectory planner that cradek has been fixing?
I don't think so.
this is the BDI 4.20
oh, probably is then
my the house is so *wet*
my wife just got hoem and wants some explanation as to why the larder has water pouring out from under the door
what should I tell her?
it works so much better when you type the name *and* the password, then press "add user"
what's a larder?
wow, who would have guessed huh?
a fat pantry :)
larder, pantry, same thing
never heard of a larder.
pantry I've heard.
larder makes more sense
where people keep food, like wheet, spices, etc.
"walk in cupboard/small room where food is stored
you actually use lard when cooking, but you don't use pants (either kind)
cans of baked beans
well - you can use lard, not that it's too common any more
and, suprisingly, beer.
[21:37:18] <alpha_emc> http://pastebin.com/298039
EMC dies on line 325... anyone know why?
[Middle English pantrie, from Old French paneterie, bread-closet, from panetier, pantry servant, from pan, bread, from Latin pānis.]
oh or aroudn line 325
line 325 is the one highlighted.
shit I really need a phone in the workshop.
how does it die?
does it scream?
or does it just quietly fall over?
with blood coming out of its ears?
"The Castle AAaaaaaaahhhhhh"
I dunno .. in alpha it loads (validates) OK. I've run to line 66 so far
axis 0 following error
that's the error
well, it's a long jog in X
I don't see how you get following errors with steppers
emc1 or 2?
want me to paste my generic.ini file? emc1
dink with P= in [AXIS_0]
make sure I,D,FF* are all 0
[21:42:26] <alpha_emc> http://pastebin.com/298044
that's my ini file.
I D FF are all 0.
P = 50 for all three axis
max vel is 1 ipm?
robin_sz, ... :P well... I only need to machine at 30ipm.
that file ran just fine on emc1+axis+simulator
jepler_, what's your P set to?
I dunno, but I wouldn't pay too much attention to the motor tuning for the simulator...
oh, I wasn't simulating
P = 1.000 I = 0.000 D = 0.030 FF0 = 0.000 FF1 = 0.077 FF2 = 0.000
I was actually running it... and just moving the table around.
that's a typical axis in my simulator ini file
what the head is P?
I was looking at the CNC on the laser ...
alpha_emc: it takes almost 3 seconds to get up to that velocity?
thats somplicated that is
P is proportional gain, I is integral gain, D is differential gain
robin_sz is now known as yoda
alpha_emc: in my emc1 I have P = 80, MAX_ACCELERATION = 128
it has the 4 axis controller, plus a CANopn bus to the height controller, plus somehting called "bitbus" to as PLC
yoda robin_sz is, hmmm?
cradek, for steppers?
alpha_emc: does your accel really have to be so low?
cradek, what kinda drivers?
alpha_emc: homemade L297/L298
well... this is a G201 from gecko
three of them.
alpha_emc: try increasing accel (a lot) or changing P
this was a transfer of setup data from turboCNC
I doubt anyone cares ... but, did you see the accels Mariss had got from steppers recently?
alpha_emc: don't know whether you should increase or decrease P though.
0-3000rpm in 17ms
alpha_emc: maybe decrease it if you need that slow acceleration
that's pretty quick
I don't need that slow acceleration
less than 1 rev I tink
SWPadnos: I think he basically set it for an "instant start" and let the lag detection control the accel, on the edge of a stall
gonna try it again.
I need alcohol
that's great - I'll be interested in that stuff for some robots I may get into busines with :)
its going to change the stepper world
I already have servos for my milling machine, so I'm set there
I recommend Alexander Keiths India Pale Ale.
good CANADIAN beer.
or walk into the nearest pub and get a local ale
(he is in the UK, after all)
today is Thursday right?
there is a speciality beer shop in our village
It's Friday in Hong Kong. :)
sells around 20 real ales
You're somewhere near Coventry, right?
birmighma is in the middle
coventry at 4 oclock
closer to there than Great Yarmouth :)
im at 9 oclock
and a bit further out :)
running it again.
lets see what happens when I have the accel at 20ipm
you guys knew what I was talking about.
yes, but wee wouldn't want future searchers of the logs to be confused :)
I want another beer... but I know I should actualy eat something today first.
that's as bad as the ads that say 128mb (what is a millibit??)
yeah, and since when have people been specifying RAM in bits?
oh COOL! samba actually lets my edit program know that there has been changes to the file... or at least one other other knows that the file has been changed to reloaded.
(they used to, in the '70s)
other other = or the other
SWPadnos: nah, they used words or bytes
I don't remember the 70s... I was alive for just a little over 6months for the 70's.
heh - I had the whole decade
SWPadnos: (depending on whether the word was a byte long)
no problem - I look younger than I am, and I act younger than I look :)
I don't even remember the 80's much.
I get CARDED still... and I'm 26. :(
I was at college
cradek: dram was in bits:64kbits x 1, for example (an expensive chip)
A-L-P-H-A: enjoy it while it lasts
various people still refer to me as "young man" .. I'm 42
cradek, I'm asian... It'll last a while.
and the SRAM as well - the 62256 (I think) was a 256kbit chip, organized as 32k x 8
SWPadnos: I thought you were talking about how the amount of RAM in a computer was specified
now, there is a weird thing ...
computers - we didn't have computers back then :)
at least, I didn't :(
* robin_sz did
well, in 79 I think
I couldn't afford one until the TI 99/4A was old, and JC Penney was going out of the electronics business
I had a commodore 64 when I was really really young.
I just liked playing the games.
I think it still works actually
I'm sure I still have mine ... somewhere
I was always an Atari guy - I've got an 800XL around here somewhere
* Phydbleep never wants to see another Vic-20 or C-64... EVER!
poke 55291, 85
10 LPRINT CHR($12) 20 GOTO 10
that's really bad when you put it into everyones login script btw =)
only if they have a printer
then it's really great :)
did I mention I setup all the labs on a campus to do that once?
hmmm - no, I think you missed that part :)
Yeah, the ppl that worked in the lab were always mucking where they shouldn't be, so it was my turn. payback is a bitch!
thanks for the help with SWAT / sambs - it's working now
You dont't muck with the person that controls the computer(s) where oyu clock in/out of
unwise. not recommended.
man - having samba working lets me use the one program on Windows that I think is superior to the open alternatives - araxis merge
Jymmm: Id go further than that
Jymmm: clocking in or out is just plain bad
drinkin sherry in switzerland...nice?
stil in thr UK
sigh ... so much water.
this will take HOURS to clean up
kids, shower. blocked plug hole,
figire the rest out
forget to pick up the depends?
No overflow, no floor drai.. Silly Briits. :)
we have wooden floors here
you get floor drains in tiled floors I guess
but upstairs .. nah
well, thats not quite true
robin_sz: Bummer.. I nope it's warm outside.. You need to open a few windows and run some fans even after you mop it up.
it seems to drain quite nicely out of th kitchen light fittings
yeah, its warm
temperate rain forest like
les: That's why I moved here. :)
midew and algae even grows on car paint
16% humidity at the moment.
the shop dehumidifiers are running full blast
lots of distilled water
les: Cool, Drive it out here, give it a week to dry and we can shellac it and sell it as "Art". :)
grat for car wash rinse
have to wash the cars a lot
mold etc eats paint!
no you dont
just leave em, theyl be fine
* Phydbleep would actually like to get hold of some Kudzu vine cuttings..
wash ours once every other year, whetnher it needs it or not :)
They'll turn into compost!
Hehehe.. Plant that in a pot in the living room and see if the cats can kill it.
part of it is the trees that have grown up so much here
can hardly see the sky
and the light is all..well...grenn
mr Stihl makes the tools
I need a bigger one for here
I just have a little saw
* Phydbleep prefers Dr. Nobel's tree remover.. :)
my friend has one with a 48" bar
Phydbleep: I thought you were talking about my mother for a second there :)
"anobel 80" works well
but she's Dr. Noble
The only bang I will have will be from the flintlock I am working on
never fired one
it doesnt go bang
remind me to not be in the county when you do
it goes "whoosh"
flash pan going off right next to your face
whoosh -bang I hope
I used to have a percussion cap shotgun
its a much slower, whoshy sort fo feeling
yeah I have a couple pounds...right here in the office
not "bang" like a nitro 12g
I should put that stuff in the barn
les: Waht kind of trees?
Georgia Red Oak is in demand in Japan for equipment crates. :)
just dont lock it up
LOTS of red oak
that was the basic requirement on my black powder licence ... I wasnt allowed to lock it up
about 10,000 trees on the properties
well 100 grains in a Hawken should make a bang.
les : Yeah, that's what you need to do... hide it in a tree bourgh then let a woodpecker find it!
all the trees are about 65 years old...it was clear cut at that time
or a beaver (if you have any in that area)
les: Find out who's logging and offer 20% of the trees for thinning and 75% of the profits for removal/cleaning..
a lot is on steep ground
les: That's hteir problem. :)
they are all about 2 feet in diameter
les : What a stick of dynamit doens't work vertically?
a little small
red oak, white oak, hickory, tulip
tulip is bigger
good for bookcases, ecept the tulips
it is the largest hardwood in the US
tulip is good wood
les: Take down a few and have them 'quarter sawn'.. season them for a while and they'll sell like mad for furinture.
light and stable
don't know about tulip except for the flowers :)
Tulip? You mean Magnolia?
Phy: yeah can do that. cousin has 25 hp sawmill
yes...it is in the magnolia family
sometimes incorrectly called yellow poplar
it is not a poplar
it's friggin' expensive
I'm still hitting that ERROR!
$50/bf or thereabouts
les : is there a such a thing as yellow poplar?
Magnoliaceae Liriodendron Tulipifere
les : It's just latin to me
this is not expensive.
well for me...it's free!
I'll buy a log :)
P = 100 now... lets see if it'll still F up.
I still need to build a solar kiln
so many things to do though
I still am hunting for a tractor
a bigger one...have a garden tractor
les and your John Deer hat
what does RESET actually do?
and...looks like I need a scope as I said earlier
les: Do you know what a 'logging arch' is?
can't decide on $1000 tiny pc scope thing vs just a used regular digital one
les: It lets a little tractor tow a big log. :)
wtfI set P =100 and it errors super quick. I set P = 20 and it's erroriing one line afterwards. if I set P=50 it runs for the most part.
les how fast a scope do you need?
I am looking for a nice ford 8n. I should get something like a Kubota or something, but like old tractors
les do you have to crank that to start it?! LOL
8ns are cool
this is really annoying.
[22:44:48] <les> http://home.att.net/~jmsmith45/
* Jymmm hears les playing "GREEN acres is the place to be..."
les: Go to http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Logging_arch.html
I use that a lot
how the hell does P affect stepper motors?
it just effects the virtual servo
well. I'm having some issues
logging arch looks cool
[22:48:50] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.com/298071
<-- this dies after after the first gcode.
whats a good oil to put on stock to prevent rusting? just motor oil?
It is green acres for sure here...chicago to VERY rural georgia mountains
les: Yeah, When I was 10? 11? i got to help build one for 10ft dia trees they were pulling out of Oregon. :)
[22:49:31] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.com/298044
this is the generic.ini... with P for all three axises changed to P = 20
les toobad shes just slapping BH's cops =)
I like lps-3 for rust prevention
dilute with kero to save money
accleration is also 20 now.
les motor oil won't do for long term storage?
hmm... maybe I'll try lowing that a tad.
detergent motor oil will wash right off in rain or with condensation
55gal drum of lard?!
A-L-P-H-A: what motors do you have?
just get some lps3!
lard turns rancid
axle grease: a lubricant for greasing the shaft in wheel
motor oil works for a while (at least, it did on my Bridgeport parts)
axel grease: someitng to do with axel F and that frog
I have soem gear oil. will use that till I can hit the tool supply and get soem LPS-3
lps3 will do 6 months in salt spray environment
waxoil is the thing
A-L-P-H-A: does it get past the G00, but not the G01?
lps3 at wallmart.
you cant beat waxoil
les walmart? really
yeah...and it is a waxoil
is that "machinist's wax"?
sold as a underbody treatment for cars
never heard of machinist's wax
I can hit walmart easy enough... automotive section I suspect.
the stuff you put on things to keep them from rusting :)
cnc wax is a "test part" wax for CNC
hard enough to be handleable
soft enought o not cause any tool wear or heating :)
you can mix up all sorts of rust preventing goop
soft enough not to destroy tooling in a accidental G0
les: you not heard of cnc wax then?
but motor oil is specifically formulated NOT to stick to things...like cylinder walls
a light coat adheres pretty well
fine if inside with no sweating or condensation
I did my parts by dunking in oil, then wiping with a cloth (that had oil on it)
then just left them sitting there in the garage - no rust
the ones that rusted did so because I forgot to take them out of the water / oil-eater bath o_O
les : Actually this was in a garden shed where it's really hot, but I gouess there was enough humitity in the air anyway
way oil, naptha, and wax woyuld make a good rust preventative i'll bet
way oil ?
naptha = stinky
designed to cling
never heard of it
heavy duty oil that's designed to not squeexe out of ways
I have soem Xylene
ah - model glue
use high flash naptha
don't pour that down PVC pipes ;)
otherwise known as odorless mineral spirits
SWPadnos that's EXACTLY what I used it for PVC pipe
maybe I'm thinking of Toluene
napthat is the main ingrediant in lighter fluid
xylene should eat PVC, I think
SWPadnos I'm allergic to toulene
it is mostly aliphatic....rather than aromatic like xylene
SWPadnos it does, and that was what i was trying to do =)
SWPadnos not for plumbing of course =)
no - for conduit gluing or the like?
SWPadnos it's ok as long as not under pressure
xylene + vaseline makes for a GREAT mold release
even for RTV
benzene, toluene, xylenes, trimethylbenzene, napthalene are aromatics...bad to breathe
les Yep, the xylene even outdoors can knock me on my ass
all based on the benzene ring
I prefer workign around the acetone, but what ya gonna do
add more methyl gruops and you go up the chain
xylene has two methyl groups
Like I said, I'm allergic to Toulene, one wiff and my head is spinning for hours.
toluene has one
heh - maybe not :)
that reminds me, I need to pick up some denatured alcohol
I just they sold it in plastic containers at the hardware store
none of them ones aroungd here sell it
I use it for shellac
I used to find it at the drug store in LA, but not up here
gallon cans at the paint store
les : yeah, but PITA safety cap on them
I do hate those
you spill more than you'll use in those fscking metals cans
Jymmm: That's what the bandsaw is for. :)
Phydbleep Yeah, 190 proof alcholoc and a bandsaw... lovely
SWPadnos, sorry I went for finner. back now.
pour with the cap high rather than low
SWPadnos, it all depends on what P value I had set.
sounds not right but it works
shit it's so humid here.
les I'll give it a shot
les: Yeah, I use that trick for anti-freeze and acetone. :)
oh like gas cans..... a lil carborator
OK - you had said that it died after the first line of G-code - was that the G00 or the G01?
SWPadnos, let me retest
Hmmm, I wonder what solvent will liquify canning wax?
well folks, I think I will eat out tonight. laters!
(not that I'll be able to help - I haven't gotten this far yet :) )
That's the other thing that works.. Punch two hole close together and the screw a sheetmetal screw with a flat/rubber washer combo into one.
Loosen the screw to vent the can and tighten it up when you're done.
oh...very good idea...bye!
SWPadnos, now it's erroring on on the light right after (Left Slot)
OK - a short rapid move
what is P now?
chaning the acceleration from 20 to 10 now, and retrying
you know - with steppers, I wonder if it makes sense to make P=1 and FF1 = 1?
I'm not sure about it though
Jymmm: Canning wax is usually parafin base.
Jymmm: I'd try Coleman stove/lamp fuel.
it's actually stopping on G00 X0.3944 Y0.8700
the worst part about emc1 is dinking with that stupid pid loop
I don't understand why it's so picky, and I don't understand how to set it up except by experimenting
indeed. it seems really weird to get following errors with steppers though
well I think the errors are real - the stepper position is not what the motion planner wants because of problems in the pid loop
true - the "feedback" always shows what freqmod has done, but he planner can still see that it's not "right"
right, just having the servo->encoder loop internal doesn't make the errors any less real
can you think of any reason why a stepper user shouldn't just set FF1 to 1, and everything else to 0?
(possibly with a number for P as well)
I don't know enough about that to say.
except obviously you need a nonzero P.
so should I jump to emc2? like it is safe to run?
A-L-P-H-A: define "safe"
it would make sense to me - FF1 is supposed to be proportional to the intended velocity
like, can I use it to make parts with it?
A-L-P-H-A: if you get it on a good day
I need to make some parts by tomorrow... :/
heh - which it may be now
bpmw_ got his working - he just had to checkout early today
A-L-P-H-A: I know my numbers work well. You could use them even though my maxvel is ~ .4
that works for me.
just a second.
I dont care about the acelleration "THAT" much.
DEFAULT_VELOCITY, MAX_VELOCITY are .41
MAX_ACCELERATION is 128
A-L-P-H-A: change the backlash numbers to 0 and see if it still errors out
P is 80, everything else is 0
PERIOD is .000024
is the following error on Y?
SWPadnos, k. I'll do SWPadnos' suggestion first. and then if not, switch over to cradek's numbers.
hmmm - I though it was Y before
I thought backlash was 0
(thought I looked at that)
it's 0 on X and Z, 0.007 on Y
SWPadnos: I've never had good results with backlash comp.
that's why I bought ballscrews :)
hmm... maybe I'll break up the command? G00 X0.3944 and then a GY0.8700
try going back and forth on one axis, at rapid and programmed speeds.
alpha_emc: down that path lies madness - concentrate on fixing your setup instead
do that for each axis
you can't mill parts that way, but you can test the machine
also, you can use MDI - just enter G0 X20
then G0 X0
see what happens
(or something smaller than 20, if you're impatient :)
alpha_emc: are you using g54 or some other coordinate system offset?
alpha_emc: ok, there's a bug there with some diagonal moves
alpha_emc: but you won't see it if you don't use offsets
I just did some simple moves and no go. G00X5 goes like maybe 1" and dies, withAxis 0 following error.
with what max accel?
something like 20 right now.
changing acceleration to 5.
[23:44:28] <alpha_emc> http://pastebin.com/298108
<-- code that I'm running
good - nice and simple :)
runs longer... about 2" instead of the 1"
and P is 20 (with other PIDFF at 0)?
P = 20.000
I = 0.000
D = 0.000
FF0 = 0.000
FF1 = 0.000
FF2 = 0.000
just for the heck of it, set P to 0, and FF1 to 1, and see if you get any motion
trying with accel at 1
well... kinda moved better
k, trying your thing SWPadnos .
heh - OK
no movement, or jerky movement?
no, I could do crap... and everytime I reset the estop, it would TRY and move an inch.
but a stall sound was made
hmmm - one sec - let me see if it should have been FF0
I set them to 0.5 max accel.
and speed to that as well.
I want to bump that... how do I test for lost steps and such?
testing the code again
so you have P at some number, the others at 0, and MAX_ACCEL and MAX_VEL at 0.5
I don't know if P actually effects anything,
cool.. I've got to go - good luck
I was probably moving faster than my computer was able to gen pulses.
and emc just spewed out some error message that's so NON-descript
try some of the better experts if it isn't working by tomorrow (rayh, jmk, paul_c, etc)
well - the motion planner looks at where it wants the table to be, and where the feedback tells it the table is
there is pseudo-feedback with steppers, because the freqgen module updates the "feedback" position every time it sends out a step pulse
but if it can't go as fast as you want, then you get a following error
probably what I was doing to trigger that error
almost at the error part.
hopefully it'll pass it
you have HOLD_TIME as 2, so your max step rate is 1/(3 * PERIOD)