Building in the emc/src/rs274_ngc directory or outside of the rcslib/emc tree ?
outside of it.
with your own makefile ?
Does it need to be built in place.
One compile at a time.
based on tom's stuff in the pdf.
btw what compiler version are y'all using? i'm trying to compile the cvs right now
gcc-2.95 & 3.3
i get a lot of errors on emcsh.cc and it does
doxygen goes to work!
g++ -o interp -lm canon_pre.cc driver.cc rs274ngc_pre.cc
produces a working exe here.
looks like I need latex here also.
did latex not get installed with doxygen ?
ray do you still have the original text to User.pdf Integrator.pdf Developer.pdf
fenn: SF - checkout documents
i have the .pdfs i just cant get the text out of them without it messing up
fenn where are they?
the originals were produced with LyX
sourceforge - click on "files"
documents.tar.gz or something like that
would you believe that kpdf doesn't have the ability to copy text out of a pdf file?
well, I can't find em
[00:28:21] <fenn> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/emc/emc-docs-1.0.0.pdf.tgz?download
why do you need the text anyway?
i want to make a complete set of documentation on the wiki
instead of having documents scattered in 7 or 8 different places
i guess i could just upload the .pdfs to the wiki
and the original format isn't available?
i dont know
LyX will generate html files...
i also want to chop up the emc1 docs and use the relevant bits for the emc2 docs (which dont exist yet)
night rayh , paul_c , Phydbleep , fenn , Jymmmm , night all
* jacky^ +_+
shouldn't the manual(s) be checked into CVS as well?
nope, just the source files.
What? Keep the docs up to date and with the app? BLASPHEMER!
Phydbleep Damn right! =)
* Phydbleep can see that some people have entirely the wrong idea about linux..
paul_c well unless you've got some other way of actually maintaing docs, CVS follows KISS.
Kick Idiots Some Slack? :)
[00:40:56] <paul_c> http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/euclid/elements/page010.html
paul_c: It's all Greek to me..
Phydbleep that's martian!
Jymmmm: The documents module was set up by Ray.
Unless someone goes screwing around with the interpreter, the docs should be fairly consistant and only require minor edits.
the documents module?
Documentation for developers is better extracted from the src code - But that requires effort from everyone to use a common doxygen style
module in what?
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
CVS @ SF has four "modules"
documents, rcslib, emc, & emc2
that's ok, I blame rayh
I think I wrote a bit about lyx and the repository a while back.
Far from it - Ray did most of the documentation single handed.
Lyx is a very capable text editor that allows several output formats.
ah i didn't know about this little secret cache of documentation
Install Lyx on your box and try it there.
why are things scattered between sf adn the website?
fenn: To be honest, the documents module is only of use to the docs maintainer(s)
good question jymmm
Open a LyX file in Word....
i'd think sourceforge would have a wiki type thing set up by now
they do - it's CVS :)
wiki is more an end usr resource.
cvs is really hard to learn for most people
SF is geared towards the needs of developers.
a dev needs a screenshot?
fenn: Two commands - checkout & update
Ha, ya right...
CVS is a PITA setting up
apt-get install cvs - seems easy to me
SWPadnos setting up, not installing.
client or server ?
cvs create /cvsrot/foo foo
something like that
client. never played with server.
Jymmmm: do you run Windows?
apt-get install cvs
client is set up automatically
SWPadnos Yes, I tried that turtle , goat, whatever thing. no go
yeah that's it.
just leaves you with ssh to install (if you need secure connection)
If you can't make that work, I don't see how the software youget with CVS would be useful to you (not trying to be an ass, it's true :) )
already got putty for that
how long ago did you try TortoiseCVS?
few months ago
quit using the dark side.
do you know the version?
(hey - I need a new apprentice)
Well - 1.8.4, wich I got last week, just adds CVS options to the context menu in Explorer windows
it's very cool
it could have been a issue with the server as well, but I couldn't get into the one I needed to so I said forget it.
it's actually pretty useful - explorer windows (and file open dialogs) show an overlaid icon to show the CVS status
right-click in a sandbox directory, and there are options for update / checkout / checkin
explorer windows have added columns for CVS version, CVS type, etc
Yeah, I looked at it, think i actually connected to a server, but I didn't want to muck around too much.
were you trying to connect to a cvs server as an anonymous usr ?
nah, I had the login
pserver or ext ?
paul, how long ago did you first learn to program?
college - several years ago.
alright, whos the bastard that wrote user.pdf?!
tell a lie - Did some programming @ school.
come on now, fess up!
write program on a pre-printed form. Send off to the mainframe lab. wait three weeks for the punch cards & printout to come back.
damn i was hoping it was more like "oh i've been programming for the navy for 30 years"
* paul_c gets seasick
oh, it is! joy!
the navy hasn't known about computers for 30 years :)
fenn: When did you start ?
paul_c: real RAD back then, huh?
well, qbasic in fifth grade (1993) c++ in high school (1999)
fenn: Pup !
haven't touched it in between
* Jymmmm hasn't touched c since 18.. err nm
* Jymmmm hasn't touched c since 1866 err nm
ah yes, 1866, it was a very good year
so anyway my point is you've been involved with computer programming for way longer than 99% of the people who would want to read the docs
Babbage calculating engine ?
more like reading Jules Verne
and those people have a hard time learning how to use cvs
That was only a decoade or so after the invention of Portland cement
BUT we need an up-to-date document system
IMO we have one, you just won't use it!
wikis are good for gathering anecdotal information, and capturing information that might otherwise be lost
I'm not sure they are the best for reference material
rayh what are you talking about
what fenn said
<personal opinion> CVS is not the primary source for end users.
Up to date. LyX, latex, tex, is how many scientific journals are published these days.
paul_c True, but docs in cvs could be build to a manual every so often
Jymmmm: So set up a cron job.
rayh what i meant by up-to-date was "concurrent"
It isn't the system that is dated it is the text that need to be brought forward.
Oh CVS again.
something like CVS but easier to use... like wiki's but automatic
rayh CVS for docs only as a 'nothing else' sorta thing
The way I see it, there are two main document sources.
pdf/htnl user docs generated from the LyX sources
and html/pdf API notes for programmers.
The latter being extracted from the C/C++ source code with doxygen
but... you need an additional set of docs for new programmers to explain what the hell is going on
and by "new programmers" i mean "someone who didn't write the code in the first place"
doxygen is a good reference tool but it doesn't explain anything in english
Lyx, along with the cvs stuff is available for those other OS's.
IF the source code had copious comments with suitable tags, doxygen could extract considerable information.
Jymmmm: Where did you find that user.pdf doc?
[01:14:33] <paul_c> http://sherline.com/emc/User_Handbook.pdf
oh so sherline is another source of docs!
(followed the link from linuxcnc.org)
it's impossible to centralize all documents - this is an open source project, and different people will publish any documents they choose
No I wrote that one also.\
Joe martin wrote the Sherline specific programming stuff.
He told me this morning that they have more than 500 units out.
I'd really like to get you guys writing stuff with Lyx and replacing the junk I wrote long years ago.
BTW Got a fix for that annoying little jump on the initial power on with the bdi-4 build.
ooh what's that paul?
rayh lyx seems more for creating a finished manual.. but emc2 is still in "beta" even though i think its more like pre-alpha
fenn: So you're bitchin' about emc2 documentation rather than the EMC docs ?
i.e. HAL & Co.
The nice thing about lyx is that it edits really well. You can start a doc anyplace and not have to redo.
just re format and re arrange.
I'm not knocking wiki as a place to start though.
well, emc1 is finished.. the docs are finished.. the docs match what's there
rayh: You really ought to get Joe & Craig converted to LyX rather than M$ editors.
It does have some advantages in ease of creating ideas.
it's not obvious where to look for them right now
Yes I should. But I know a lost cause when I see one.
and they're based around a printed manual format which is hard to use on a computer
to look for what?
which is why LyX can generate HTML, PDF, doc, rtf, etc.
paul_c, a quote from Joe Martin: The Microsoft Word® program that I used was as much as a work of art as the marvelous cathedrals of the 17th century. We just haven’t acknowledged it yet.
fenn: The gods of previous religions are the devils in the new.
unless you're catholic
probably best not to discuss religion - Might offend a few with my opinions.
anyways - Time for me to go.
just reading back a bit
fenn: Lyx is cross platform compatable
I've got it here on my Mac
It comes on teh BDI disks
We had to leave it off the 4.20.
oh that's right :)
but you can add it easy enough with apt-get...
so to me, it appears to be a good way to go
dan_falck why does it matter to me if lyx is cross-platform? i dont have any windows/macs
it should matter because ray and co are using it
rayh i notice that the user.pdf docs in the cvs are in separate files by section.. is there an option to turn these into separate html files linked to by a table of contents?
I believe so but you'd need to look at lyx2html or hevea and see how.
I've seen quite a few web and reference things done that way.
That is why I wrote them as chapters.
gotta run. catch you later.
cradek, what do yout think about writing a "conversational programming" layer in python, to make common g-code stuff easier and more intuitive?
heh -that was funny-ish :)
it was pretty good timing.. within a second
but cradek isn't cradek_
so he isn't
i wish compilers just told you what to do when they gave an error
the DWIM interface :)
that comes awfully close to the LyX gimmick
what you see is what you mean
What You Mean Is What Makes You See What You Want
Regardless Of Whether Others Can Understand It
damn WTF never works :)
there was a funny line on bash.org
a guy said "what the fuck does WTF mean?"
what is boelube made from?
I have no idea - never heard of it
(I was actually going to say that, but thought better of it)
argh - gotta run. see you later
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
wooo! emc compiles! mwahahaha
emc2 that is
asdfqwega know any place to get cool g-code sample files?
* asdfqwega is calculating next step in CNC upgrade of mill - the combo-leadnut replacement
asdfqwega: This toolpost is the shiznit. :)
Grrr...I'm going to have to start with a 2x3x5" block of steel and whittle it down
Phydbleep: Glad you like it
Phydbleep: Now send me lots of money :P
Heh...two labradors and a buckets of pennies...heheh, that was good
I threw in a carbide insert holder and got 1 20+ foot long chip off the side of a test round with a ~ 3" traverse. :)
Phydbleep lies! all lies!
Only 20'? didn't you lead it out the door and down the street? You can get it much longer that way
asdfqwega: I ran out of stock.. I was cutting away from the chuck. :)
Yeah, better stick with the regular stock...chucks are expensive to be turning down to make parts from :)
Phydbleep: Tested everything but the rambus board - it all seems to work OK
asdfqwega: Yeah, that's from my junque.. I threw out all the junk.. :)
junque = junk +1
Well.. I've still got a pile of proprietary 4meg 72pin IBM dimms someplace.
You read a scroll named ANNOD ELLAB <more>
You junk glows blue for a moment
Hmmm.. .That's odd.. That pile shouldn't glow blue.. It should have an malevolent green glow..
Hey, if YOU want to be the DM, go right ahead
No, I just know what I buried and where it should be. :)
* asdfqwega is away - gotta find some allergy relief :(
* Phydbleep sympathises..
* ValarQ takes the first sip of the days first cup of coffee
That's part of why I want cnc.. I'm sick of trying to set/read dials and sneeze at the same time. :)
how's the crappy stuff?
i'll make a screenshot...
btw, when you start to add hal modules
let me knoe
[07:27:37] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.png
and as an answer to your earlier question, no i won't translate it to swedish
maybe a bork edition for mr Padnos ;)
alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
I'll be back later
hi ValarQ :)
les: g'day :)
just reported some ebay/paypal scams
boy they look real!
les, they usually do. :)
I'd be happy to try and log in with fake shit... and get them and their IP logged by paypal instead.
the scam site is still up after a day or two
All the buttons link to real ebay so it looks legit
alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
hey Daniel ;)
ow, he found out my first name
not often one gets to hear that :)
i'm usually called Vq by my friends and Sergeant Nilsson at work :)
Sergent Nilsson ;)
I like that
hey Sarge :))
i'm not working for the military any longer thought
oh.. so you did?
in the swedish navy :)
any of you ever heard/run ProEngineer?
i tested it a long time ago in school
I have some ProEngineer files
and I don't know what to use to convert them
argh. the bdi install I left running last night says "install exited abnormally"
"The error was 'BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)'."
jepler: not nice
oh well, I'll give up for now. Clearly bdi is not going to work under qemu, even just for testing a frontend.
weehoo, something works
lost connection :\
[13:11:47] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.png
WIP preview :D
at least it is getting some info from halcmd and displays it's name...
steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
so you started to make it interactive?
i'm doing the table thingie for displaying the pins in a component now
I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to have it like an schem. editor only
it would require more knowledge about the modules thought
ValarQ: like what?
you gotta know the pins on them
pin name, type, direction
i don't think i understood what you meant by schem
like an schematic editor does
based on a library
you take components (in this case hal modules)
and connect them with wires
and in the end you parse a .hal file
then you need information on the capabilities of the components
kinda like an off-line thingy
this program is a lot simpler i itself, it's more or less a small wrapper to halcmd
that works too
didn't think of it that way ;)
when you insert a stepgen component you get to chose the types packed in the cfg parm etc
and then my program only lists the pins generated
* ValarQ is of to hunt down some food
and don't forget a play/pause button for hal operation
that can only happen in sweden...
a discution about meatballs
somebody cooked them in soap...
i think i should quit listening to some irc channels...
or some sort of detergent...
paul_c: what's that?
[14:40:05] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/someplot.png
some servo sequence?
a rough approximation for the accel curve
paul_c: doesn't it start too abrupt?
it should be a-pow(a, 1/sqrt(5)) ?
not if it is one point of a quintic
alex_joni: wouldn't that just be pow(a,1+(1/sqrt(5)))
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
stevestallings2 is now known as steve_stallings
* alex_joni goes home
all of those curves have derivatives (first in the case of pow(a,1/sqrt(5)), higher in other cases) that go to infinity at a=0. That can't be what you want.
[15:40:24] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.png
oh, mr Joni is away
cool - you're really moving fast on this one :)
could you post a .tar.gz file with the source to crapplication (or crapahalic)?
(I'm too lazy to boot up the Linux machine, and WinZip doesn't handle bzip files :) )
[16:10:49] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.tar.gz
this might do then
it depends on pygtk and gnome-python to run
That's OK - I just wanted to look at the code as an example of python
ok, don't know if my gui crapcode is the best example thought
heh - at least I know what its' doing :)
ugh :\ i get a flipped job !
should i exchange AA with BB position ?
of the stepper motor
hmmm - sounds like you need to change the INPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_SCALE on one axis
input scale again ? :\
which way is it flipped (X or Y)?
maybe also y
then change the sign of the X input and output scale
input scale should be the same of output scale ?
this is a gantry-type router, right?
OK, so the spindle moves, not the workpiece
(not the table)
no.. x move the table
so move also thw workpiece
OK, and Y moves the gantry?
you had a photo, right?
where is the photo (on roboitalia)?
[16:25:25] <jacky^> http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=75
OK - if you program a positive X move, which way does the table go?
i'm using mill_mm_freq.ini
uhmm can i try to run a command
sure - the one from yesterday G21 G91 G1 X+50 F200
G1 x+10 F100 it's right ?
remember the G91 for relative motion
it move and go in the direction of x motor stepper (near)
from home go near the motor
OK - the table gets closer to the X drive motor
as it moves in the positive direction
then, move right ?
the table should get closer to the motor for a plus move
so this looks right
do the same move in Y
the spindle should move away from the Y stepper
y move the same as x
toeard the motor?
not away from the y stepper
OK - that needs to be changed
let's check Z as well
a positive Z move should move the spindle up
it go up
then put minus signs in front of the Y input scale and output scale
so, Y move in a wrong direction
yep - that ives you a mirror image
the ini file is working with mm as units
input scale 200.000 0
that's the Y axis?
ouput scale 200.000 0.000
this is the X axis
Ok (don't change that one :) )
it move 5 cm with G1 x+50 F100
yep - that's right
second axis, instead, with the same value of input /output scale travel at the 50% of X axis
so, it use as input scale 400
but it's the same screw thread?
do you have half-stepping enabled on the Y driver?
also same step
the controller are the same
no half stepping enabled
hmm - that sounds weird
maybe not !
i'm a stupid..
heh - happens to me all the time :)
i'm going to check
change the sign on Y while you're at it
shoul i invert AA with BB ?
if Y is 200 0, then change it to -200 0
ah, yes, ok
both input and output
I'll be back in a minute - got to get more coffee
ok, tnx a lot SWPadnos
it works, I assume :)
i think so
i changed 200 in -200 for y and move right
SWPadnos: 100 % working right
heh - mis-click?
SWPadnos: 100 % working good :D
I got that (and then an immediate disconnect :) )
it's my adsl that work bad :\
i'm not sure about my period variable setted in .ini file..
what do you think is wrong?
mybe to low, sometimes some application go in crash
i'm using a celeron 800
what is it set to, and what CPU do you have?
what video card?
PERIOD = 0.00002
that should be OK, depending on the system board
ah,, video card it's an ole nvidia tnt 16 mb (agp)
good - how much RAM
that should be fine :)
what happens if you increase PERIOD to 0.000025?
linux also have a big swap (500 mb)
i've not tried this
swapping doesn't matter for the RT tasks
they can't get swapped out, since they're part of the kernel
i also activated verbose debug
that will slow things down, I think
I have a celeron 500 with video on the motherboard, and 512M
but can't see important mesg when crash
I can run PERIOD at 20 uS just fine.
I don't remember - are you using emc1 or emc2?
emc1, bdi 4.20
(must be 1, or it would be BASE_PERIOD)
OK - I have 4.18 on my celeron, so it should be the same
maybe my hw ..
actually, if the period is too small, then the GUI will get sluggish as soon as you run EMC, so that's probably not the problem
i suspect on memory ram
you should run memtest for a day or so
make sure to turn on all tests
i would like to use emc2, but i'm new to compiler, so i'll waiting for a good time :)
I think the latest emc2 in CVS compiles just fine on BDI 4.xx
if you have the comiler set up for compiling emc1, that is :)
oops - there is one extra requirement for emc2 - libgtk-devel-1.2 or something like that
that's only for the utilities, though - halscope and halmeter
i taked a note :P
how are you doing?
i'm using a machine to drill
jacky^: i must try that someday :)
i built my machine in about 2 mounth..
bsometimes night and day :\
but very funny :D
i have a similar project with a friend of mine
we are trying to get it good enough to mill pcb cards
i found very pretty the iron and laser printer for pcb
i made my controllers
i first printed the pcb scale 1:1 with laser printer
after i used an iron
i don't know how to explain
but it's very simple
i think if you google you'll find sure
you only need a laser printer
i got for about 100 euro..
what do you do after you iron it?
just the pcb under the water
wait some minute
I've only done PCBs by mail order or on cradek's milling machine.
when you iron it, the toner from the laser printer transfers to the copper
then you etch it like normal
* ValarQ is using oh-plastic and etching liquid
cradek_: sounds easy
ValarQ: it is easy but tedious and finnicky.
cradek_: easier to just mill it ;)
there are rapid prototyping places that have pretty good deals on 2-layer boards
ValarQ: definitely milling is best for me
with cnc, we no need to drill again, also not acid is used ..
like $33 per board, for 3 boards
cradek_: hopefully for me too, soon...
but sometimes it's a hard work to find the file ready do work, or made it manually, take some time..
jacky^: I use Eagle (www.cadsoft.de)
i know it
jacky^: using its scripting language you can generate g-code directly
i also tried pcb that comes with linux
but.. i repeat
I have not tried that
i use crapplication ;)
i you don't have the pcb file ready ?
you need to work some hour
just to draw
would be a software that from a jpeg convert the file in pcb format (hard to do, i think..)
what's the command to uncompress a tar.gz file?
tar -xzf foo.tgz
("man tar" for further info)
no, there's 1 more command
nope - the z in the option list unzips and untars
tar -xf foo.tar
-v for verbose
and you don't need the - either, since tar by default does nothing, at least one option is required
maybe depend on tarball
see you later, time for dinner :P
jacky^ is now known as jacky^afk
'tar xzvf foo.tgz' eXtract / Zipped / Verbosely / Filename
* Phydbleep wakes up and goes 'Damn, I can do that in my sleep..." :)
and for a foo.tar.bz2, the incantation would be ?
'tar xjvf foo.tgz'
'tar xjvf foo.tar.bz2'
Is it 'j' or'i'..?
one silver star to Phydbleep !
* Phydbleep is dyslexic and has hell with j/i some days.
'tis j for bz2
no gold star?
Dyslexics of the world, UNTIE!
about to install BDI4.20...
page broken. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Documentation
well, the links are
the doc links
ah - the ? shows that no definition for that term has been entered into the wiki
and this wiki doesn't allow pdf files
* jacky^ bleah.. that adsl
so those are indeed broken :)
I think fenn is working on putting the contents of the .pdfs up
after I've installed the BDI, where's the ini file to edit?
/usr/local/emc, I believe
SWPadnos: are you working on a pcb software ?
start the install, and then eat.
jacky^: did you mean "writing a PCB program" or "using a PCB program" ?
OK - then no :)
SWPadnos: hey, get over here and help me with crapplication
Ok. I'll get the next flight
SWPadnos: did you look at the crapahalic code?
a little bit
it seems very short :)
i had no reason to make it long ;)
I suppose if it were complete, it would be longer
yeah, it's harder to add functionality by deleting code at this stage
at least it's guaranteed to remove bugs though ;)
rm -fr * kills bugs, dead.
i usually unlink(2) them ;)
What is this 'crapaholic'?
I'd google for it, but I fear what I'd find :(
how much is z mazak machining centre?
also, it's crapahalic
crapa-HAL-ic - get it?
it's not funny
it is if you start with crapplication :)
And it generates .crap files. :)
[19:46:52] <SWPadnos> http://arda.no-ip.org/someplot.png
[19:47:02] <SWPadnos> http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.png
I just DL'd the tar
I'll look at it when I get back
ValarQ: The pic has changed. :)
anyone going to this? http://www.cnc-workshop.com/map.htm
I wish I could
SWPadnos: That plot is boring.. I was expecting 'global domination' or 'get lots of women'. :)
hi Phydbleep :D
maps.google.com is telling me it's a 14hr drive.
Hi jacky^ :)
damn... 1100 km... how fast does a cesna fly?
vertical or horizontal ?
145 mph max structural cruising speed, for a 172M
yikes, still a long flight.
which axis A-L-P-H-A ? :D
[19:53:22] <A-L-P-H-A> http://maps.google.ca/maps?ll=42.203125,-84.863843&spn=6.781250,12.331936&saddr=Pickering,+ON&daddr=2211+155th+St,+Cameron,+IL+61423,+USA&hl=en
at least you don't have this: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.531250,-81.826421&spn=10.593750,17.718299&saddr=Essex+Junction,+VT&daddr=2211+155th+St,+Cameron,+IL+61423,+USA&hl=en
SWPadnos, wanna carpool?
I considered it, but my wife and I share a car, and I can;t leave her without one for a week (plus a few days)
Plus, I don't think I have the time to go
lol @ Phydbleeps thought on my someplot.png file
crap, that won't work... I was thinking renting, but then that means I have to show up to the rental place to show my liscense and crap
though I could go for a nice waffle at the 9 o' cups :)
and there's always Rodneys the night before
cradek_: how thick are the circuit boards we order from mouser?
what's a CHEAP airline?
pretty sure they're always .059
A-L-P-H-A: no such thing
(with the copper and possibly the soldermask = so they may be .059 without the mask)
SWPadnos: this is single-sided copper clad
that would leave a couple of mils off :)
.059 says the catalog
indeed it does - I sit corrected
cradek_: I was trying to find some <1/16" flat end mills but they're typically pretty short (eg flute length = 3x diameter)
* anonimasu yawns
jepler: that's pretty normal
what's up guys?
jepler: they're so small you can't cut deeper than that anyway.
jepler: the only ones you'll find for reasonable price are probably 1/32
I always end up in trouble with that
they all have so short flutes, trying to mill the side of somthing is impossible
alex_joni: not much here, just waiting for the workday to be over, trying to figure out where to go on vacation
life is rough :)
hmm.. how far do you wanna go?
cradek_: If I implement "holes via end mill" then something like 1/32 would be great for all the odd hole sizes we run into
yeah, if they are 3/32 long, that would be plenty
I'm sure I have some 1/32 mills
they won't last long cutting fiberglas though.
jepler: get a laser to cut fiberglass ;)
if you do it, use a helix with a circle at the bottom, not plunge-then-circle
that's easy enough
hm, holes via endmill?
* anonimasu does that all the time
A-L-P-H-A: A cheap airline is a reason for the channel to take out insurance on you. :)
anonimasu: for odd-sized (large) pcb holes
oh, I mill alu....
but that's the easiest way to make large holes..
anonimasu: I did that for my spindle mount (steel) - it's nice that the holes ended up in the right place, which hardly ever happens when I use the drill press
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
:) I'm glad you guys care enough to bet on my life.
A-L-P-H-A: how much is the pot?
cradek_: here's a site with carbide 1mm (.0394") diameter / 4mm cutting length, 2- or 4-flute, $9.64 each. Not sure if they have a minimum order.
[16:06:45] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: A cheap airline is a reason for the channel to take out insurance on you. :)
[20:11:08] <jepler> http://www.national-tool.com/HTML/metric-square.html
they also have .030"/.090" for $17.33
[20:11:39] <jepler> http://www.national-tool.com/HTML/sub-miniature.html
why wouldn't you want 1/32?
I haven't found 1/32 yet
thinktink only has them in stub
ah, I see that now, 060 EFL is pretty short
(but it would probably be fine)
060 to cut 059?
that doesn't mean there is no cutting surface higher on the tool - only that the diameter isn't held
much cheaper prices
wow, look at the small one on their front page
I found 1/32 single end square, for $3 each.
I get $4.39
$4.95 shipping... so I ordered 12.
why are we all finding different prices?
cradek_: how many flute did you choose? I think I chose 2 flute
[20:15:27] <cradek_> http://www.cetdirect.com/pub/product.asp?PMode=9&catID=5042&ID=5280
oh yeah, these are 4flt
what do you cut with them?
Part Number: 12001 Price: $4.98
[20:16:06] <A-L-P-H-A> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58224&item=7508750488
ah, you picked non-stub
oh, you're looking at stub length
it's 1.5" long... how stub do I need it?
mind you it takes them like 2 weeks to ship anything.
I'd rather pay the extra $2 then
yeah, but I bought 12.
cradek_: any ideea about ProEngineer ?
alex_joni: never heard of it
ok.. how about .stl ?
alex_joni: never heard of it
I've heard about stl
any ideea if I can import it to autocad?
actually I have some .asm and .prt (and I think they were done in ProEngineer)
"idea" like "ikea", instead of a K it's a D.
I found some software that converted it to STL
alex_joni: I don't know about any of those - sorry
A-L-P-H-A: this ebay person takes 2 weeks, or cetdirect does?
i thought i heard someone mention ikea
autocad seems to export STL, but no option to import any.. that's dumb
I dunno how long CET takes.
alex_joni: Ask websys about stl import.
stl stl stl - that seems familiar
CET has good prices, just not the BEST
paul_c: will do when he'll be around
ah it's just triangles specified in ascii
cradek_: stereolithographie or smthg like that
alex_joni: it would be easy to convert that to 3DFACE entities in DXF
alex_joni: what do you want to do with it once it's in autocad?
look at it
I will eventually use it for some offline testing on a robot system
but STL is ok for that
but I gotta make sure the right stuff is in the STL
found an STL import for autocad, trying that noe
yeah you should be able to write a convert pretty easily.
or ... find one that someone else wrote
paul_c: my synergy doesn't work.. again
you guys seen the stuff ValarQ did?
[20:24:34] <Jymmm> http://k2cnc.com/CNC-router-KS-2525_detail.asp
plus 6.5" gantry clearance and 5" Z travel, tax and shipping $2310
I saw some of his programs the other day
they were all named funny things
anonimasu: IMO they're worth a look. :)
Phydbleep: what do they do?
The most common error in an STL file is non compliance with the vertex-to-vertex rule. The STL specifications require that all adjacent triangles share two common vertices.
they're all triangle strips, to use opengl terms?
Crapplication is a small and fast pcb layout editor for quick creation of simple one layer pcb-cards. It's written entierly in python and uses pygtk and gnome-python for graphical interaction and pyx to create the printable eps-files.
jepler: I guess. The strange thing is that all three vertexes (and a surface normal!) are listed in each triangle
jepler: it seems a little bit ... redundant
cradek_: seems there are no free converters :(
Phydbleep: who are the developer of crapplication ?
it wouldn't be the first bad format in the world
alex_joni: so write it, it's trivial
jacky^: ValarQ is
ah ok, nice
[20:31:24] <Phydbleep> http://arda.no-ip.org/crap
jepler: in dxf to specify a triangular 3dface, you specify four 3d points, the last two being the same (3dfaces are quads)
cradek_: don't know enough about that
ValarQ: good work
are you writing them fron zero ?
jacky^: not completely, i have used parts from my pcb-editor
never write an application from zero when someone, somewhere, already writed :D
i seen pcb , but it seem released without source code
it can be downloaded from pcb.sf.net i believe
source code ?
I'm afraid that eagle still beats the other choices I know of. You can use it for free (as in beer), and nothing else I've worked with does back & forward annotation and autorouting. I'd love to be proven wrong.
jepler: don't forget round traces
jepler: the rest of us is gnu fanatics, sorry
ValarQ: I understand where you're coming from, and I'm uneasy about having my PCBs in a closed format.
oops, my smiley lost an eye
alex_joni: no, but leaving soon
alex_joni: what's up?
jepler: yeah, too bad crapplication isn't good enough
was wondering if you could hack up a quick converter ;;)
cradek_: don't take me seriously :)
alex_joni: maybe tonight
cradek_: just got a good copy of the debian installer iso, hopefully I can kick off the network part of the install before we go
alex_joni: really, it looks like it would be simple.
jepler: why are you doing this again?
cradek_ is now known as cradek
cradek_: because I want somewhere I can try out emc2
build axis for it
last I knew, it ran on max
cradek: got my mail the other day?
alex_joni: your emc2 hacks? Yes, we really appreciate it
hope they weren't too ugly ;)
alex_joni: send me your file (be sure to compress it!) and I may look at it tonight
alex_joni: actually I didn't look at it - but jepler put the patch on the web site
seen that just now
I glanced at it. the patch is small, so it can't be too ugly
cradek: zip ok?
alex - when you say it "doesn't work" - what's not working?
rayh is now known as rayh_wayaway
alex_joni: you could also dcc it if that's easier
it does work.. usually
but it tends to forget the licence ;)
it's on it's way
which autocad do you have?
websys: got any STL import in synergy?
ok, I only have R12/dos to test with
acck - sort of - prob is what to do with it once I have it
shouldn't be very different
websys: display it?
rotate, print, etc.
ok, just bought it
Prob is the datasize usually blows everthing out of the water
not that important really
ok folks, I'm off
Alex - when it "forgets" are you logged in as a different user than usual?
* anonimasu has started poking around with QT
the tbl file are auto-called by emc when a program are loaded ? what happening if i leave it to 0 values?
anonimasu: that was a tribute to all the frogs who died of thirst during the 7:th may 1875
how can I get some lettering into DXF?
anonimasu: yeah, i don't see much other people care bout them ;)
as outlines I can clice up on my laser?
robin_sz: try STL
or even better .prt
what the heck is STL?
standard template library
My new synergy version can produce TTF outlines
robin_sz: that C++ thingie?
ValarQ: yeah, that
STL = Stereo Lithography
cradek: thought that does g-code?
ValarQ: I care :)
or well, I'd care if I had time to
bookmarked it ;)
hey, I remember .. I have a Signlab dongle somewhere ..
whoever came up with the "dongle" idea should be shot
B. Gates ?
hm, autodesk maybe
in a world without walls and fences,
who needs gates and windows?
anonimasu: nah, not autodesk
robin_sz: I just know they've been using dongles forever
anonimasu: all thier software ships with a "keygenerator"
robin_sz: don't mix it up with astalavista.com
* anonimasu nods
ah, yes, thats could be it ;)
I kinda like ProEngineers way of working with parts
robin_sz: well, real bought programs come with a dongle..
robin_sz: ever tried it?
robin_sz: I wouldnt know if you have one though *grins*
you have a drawing for all parts
3D drawings that is
and you can assemble them to the final product
robin_sz: I was thinking their older software.. :)
alex_joni: Solidworks is the 3d cad of choice at the moment
similar to proengineer in many ways
makes going bak to autocad seem like a step back in time
the latest does look pretty nice
seen a 2006 the other day
Autocad is the punch cards of the cad world these days
I saw 2005 the other day, didnt look much more fun than my Acad LT 98
yeah.. just like doze
it's dumb ... but it's pretty spreaded
I bought the LT98 btw, but no dongle
LT never did ship with a dongle
I cant say I tink Acad 2005 is worth the price either, 2700GBP in basic form
WAY too much
* alex_joni nods
anyway ... my next project is a sheet loader
thaqt will be interesting
one of those big heavy stamp sheets?
more to the point, a magazine for storing sheet and retreiving it, to the laser, on demand
I can see some sort of database linked to a cnc control of some flavour
and a web interface to view stock
heh.. so when you cut out a piece, it remembers the sheet
with the missing part
so it can be reused?
that would be cool
we will slit the sheet on 500mm boundaries
that mixed with automatic nesting
so, 0.2, 0.4, 0.6 or 0.8 of a sheet
rfid tag the sheets..
sadly, the remnant trackign just doesnt work
robin_sz: it could :D
seen many comapnies try and use it
and ALL the nesting packages support it
robin_sz: calculate how much material you've cut out of sheet X from the dxf files..
my nesting package supports that
I dont see the trouble with it..
unless the program is crap, and wont nest stuff properly
anonimasu: I do ;)
say you send a small program to the operator to cut
severlal ways to screw up
he cant find the sheet, so uses an similar one ...
he screws up the first few parts,
so just moves 300mm further up the sheet and tries again
but surely the cutting machine can report that;)
all this means your remnants rarely if ever are the size and/or shpe you tink they are
yeah with somthing like nml..
* alex_joni slaps anonimasu with paul_c's wet kipper
if you look at the storage and tracking of plain old mild steel
the management overhead outweighs the product cost
we decided to split at 0.2 of a sheet incrememnts
so we have whole sheets, or standard part sheets
what do you make out of these sheets anyway?
sub-contract laser cutter
so more or less random sizes
well, you could still substract it from the sheets..
if you are writing a system you could keep track of what you've cut out..
but tracking them in reallity is harder than in theory
because there are humans involvved
you just gotta let the machines do it all
and they will think of new and ingenius ways to screw it up
* jacky^ damn
i'm a member of the borg political party
fenn let me give you an exampl
you have a part sheet with a cut out onthe top right corner ...
mindless slavery for humans, now!
you will be assimilated
I nest some more parts onto it in the bottom left hand corner and send the job to the floor for cutting ok?
the operator puts it on the machine upside down, cutout top right, not top left
cuts his parts and sticks it back in the rack
q: why does it cost less to hire a human to do this job?
well, it doesnt
but ... it takes a while to design the humans out of the process
is it lack of capital to invest in a robot system?
like, 100K gbp for a bought one
or 5 to 10K if I build it in house
yeah that's a lot
or in workshop anyway :)
robin_sz: how much time to write the software ?
20-30k for a used one ;)
oh, not a lot .. its fairly simple
IFF yo ucan find one
they tend to come with lasers
you've heard of Trumpf?
bystronic are a similar size
trumpf and bystronic share the laser market 50:50
robin_sz: well, if all you want to do is index & switch your sheets..
robin_sz: it grows quickly ;)
anonimasu: all I want to do is not have to lift the fscking things with a forklift and push them off the fork onto the bed
so a vertical magazine, with a picker for pallets of sheet
and a vacuum lifter to take a sheet off the pallet and drop it onthe laser
a nice little plc..
I was thinking a real plc.
I want a web interface and a database
anonimasu "Hey, while you're at it, get a mini RC hovercraft to lift the material for you!"
* anonimasu pokes CL with a stick
Jymmm: Are you talking to robin?
anonimasu: is it allive?
Jymm we already use one ;)
robin_sz: it works ok, probably..
sorta a hovercraft anyway
anonimasu : No, just making fun of robin_sz's suggestions. He thinks everyone has zillions of dollars in equipment and manpower.
Jymmm: isnt that how it is?
Jymmm: no, you are mistaken.
robin_sz goony goo goo
Jymmm: do you know why I am going to build a magazine and plate loader?
Jymmm: because staff are too expensive
its CHEAPER this way
better keep the staff running the machine
* alex_joni goes to bed
only companies with loads of spare cash can affrod to do it manually
i'm trying to compile axis for emc2..
robin_sz: want me to send you some cheap stuff over?
it gives me errors about tkinter_ not found, where's tkinter?
you need to follow the stuff from docs
Jymmm: wanna hear about how we use "hovercraft" theory?
alex_joni: stuff or staff?
there's a readme by jepler about what packages you need on BDI
* Jymmm prefers hockytable theory =)
robin_sz: staff of course
Jymmm: get a tonne of steel on the forklift by the laser, forks tilted forward at a height to allwo the sheet to slide off onto the bed of the laser
alex_joni: only if they are blonde and female
robin_sz: we can arrange that
Jymmm: then just fire the air line under the top sheet and it slides off real smooth :)
fenn: apt-get update apt-get install python-opengl python-tk python-dev xlibmesa-dev \ freeglut-dev
fenn: there was another package, but I can't remember it now
smthg XFree86 related
* alex_joni is too tired to think ;)
is there a simplw way to retrive the right value for backslash ?
or only experimental ?
* jacky^ ZZzzZZZzz ronf...
This is a test
only by experiment
and ... if your backlash vaires along the leadscrew, then that is another problem
found howto robin_sz , tnx
moving the axes by 0,5 mm using a pencil as tool and measuring..
i hope the backslash don't varies alond the leadscrew, tomorrow i will try
* fenn is in dependency hell
get help, man
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
there are support groups for that kind of thing :)
if i just add packages.debian.org to my apt repository list, will it download .deb's?
i cant figure out how to get dpkg
you then need to apt-get update, to get the new list of available packages
fenn: tried apt-setup ?
are you trying to get apt to work on your fc3 install?
you CAN tell apt-get to install dependancies too, it's a switch iirc
apt already works, but only for rpms
rpm's on debian?!
i know what a pain, huh
rpms on fc3, downloaded with apt-get
right - any .deb will depend on others, all the way back to libc and the kernel
fsck redhat (just my two cents =)
first time i heard this
since you don't have any .debs installed, you'll end up getting a complete distro
so mixing .rpms and .debs is a bad idea?
damn this python-tk package to hell!
fenn: wich distro ?
It sounds like a nice idea, but I don't think the dependencies are interchangeable
jacky^: fedora core 3
you could install some .deb package, and the rpms would still depend on the rpm version of the same program being installer
i think it's not a good idea to mix
i'm usind debian sid
apt is very powerful tool
what's the difference between .deb and .rpm anyway?
the problems are in the dipendences
deb is redhat, deb is debian
rpm is redhat, deb is debian
you can't mix..
fenn: tried ubuntu ?
I don't think there's a lot of difference in terms of the package formats - it's the way the manager deals with and keeps track of dependencies that's different
it's very nice
fenn This aint windows!
fenn: sometimes i tried and used a rpm package in debian
sometime work, sometime not
i used alien to convert rpm in deb
when the package i wanted was not available as deb
then compile it yourself!
if any package has no dependencies, it should work fine. Otherwise, the package database probably won't correctly keep track of the packages installed (from all package formats)
also not available as soucr code
like an Nvidia or ATI driver, for example
jacky^ if it's gpl, source has to be available
depend on what toure going to install
oh geeze, you ppl and your fscking video
Jymmm: compiling can be a real bitch some times.. the reason i'm doing all this is to compile something
fenn I understand =)
good video cards are a plus for CAD, and even Axis
(not to mention Wolf:ET :) )
yeah i'm worried that rtai might screw up with my nvidia drivers
fenn: i suggest you to switch to Ubuntu, the more download distro in the latest mounth.. if you like apt or debian-based distros
what you can't run two machines?!
one for RT adn another for desktop
oh - two machines says the guy in the tiny apartment ;)
Jymmm: i'm developing emc on my desktop which requires rtai
SWPadnos Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, I have like 6 machiens in here right now
so THAT's why you can't fit a Bridgeport in there :)
SWPadnos KVM and synergy baby =)
how does synergy work for you?
he means synergy the video/keyboard switcher right?
I love it. It doens't like when my laptop goes into standby, but other than that it's great
SWPadnos: i tried it for 5 min an close it immediatly :\
jacky^: not the CAD program - the allpication to share a keyboard and mouse on different computers
SWPadnos I REALLY like the copy-n-paste between machiens
my problem is that I'd need several more monitors on my desk
that's nice.. share your home directory and you'll be set
Ihave 3 for my main computer, and the center one is dual-input
SWPadnos Well, the laptop has it's own, but I still have my KVM switches as well.
then there's the laptop, the server, the EMC machine, and the SGI :)
SWPadnos it'll work on SGI too =)
and the experimental Gentoo box, which uses the alternate input on the center monitor
* fenn drools
what I need is a DWIT interface
Do What I'm Thinking
Well, this monitor has dual inputs, so I can flip between them when ever
yep - but there's no way for synergy to tell you've done it
SWPadnos no need to, just move your mouse over
that's the problem - I have a 3-output video card on one machine, and then dual or single on all the others
and only 3 monitors on my desk
and no room for more (unless I go to 15 inch ones - blecchh)
SWPadnos: i remember a nice software, i was using with my palm ipaq and linux, moving the mouse out to the right it switch on the other monitor, and also the kb
that's what we're talking about
i don't think..
it would be really cool if you could drag X windows between machines, and have the DISPLAY variable and xhost stuff done for you automatically :)
Just bought it http://k2cnc.com/CNC-router-KS-2525_detail.asp
that would be VNC
cool - let us know if it's as good as it looks
no - run a program on a machine, then decide you want to se eit on another monitor, which is on another machine
so drag it across
SWPadnos: it would be cool if you had scsi CPU and i/o boards, and daisy-chain 200 computers together
SWPadnos Will be a month before shipped. I also had it modified to give me a 6.5" clearnace and a 5" Z travel
or a beowulf cluster of those :)
SWPadnos: the name is x2x
is the same ?
beowolf cluster == hot water heater =)
x2x -to 192.168.0.2:0.0 -east
ah - interesting
synergy is similar, but it's cross platform
i don't know if is good for what youre doing
allows you to share between Linux, Windows, and others
(don't know about mac - they have this one button thing going on)
yep - mac also
mac uses ctrl and option keys to simulate 2 and 3 buttons
and click-hold for right click
I hate that
never heard of tat
SWPadnos: Wouldm't that DWIT interface be a bit of a hazard?
yeah - usually clicking and holding brings up a context menu
Phydbleep: depends on what you're thinking now, doesn't it
buddhists would love it
SWPs hate it
i mean the dwit interface
ah - yes
but keep it out of the hands of the President
SWPadnos: Well.. Considering that I frequently look at the caller ID and think "Oh fsck me" when relatives call..
well - look at the bright side
you could be looking at Halle Berry, and thinking the same thing
SWPadnos: Frequently do. :)
see - the positives may outweight the negatives :)
i heard that is possible to use optical bar for cnc machine instead of leadscrew
i googling but i never find it, anyone know ?
jacky^: 'linear encoder'
the optical bar would be a feedback device - a linear scale
should i search for linear encoder..
it's only useful if you want to use the feedback for something
i was searching optical bar :\
usually encoders are used with servos, not steppers
yes, i know
the mine is just curiosity
i don't have too much money :\
and they cost too much money :)
i know :(
it's fantascience for me :)
they're something like $2 on ebay
yeah, we're talking about linear bar encoder
i also founf schematic using a mouse electronics as encoder :P
well.. make sure you use something else to count the pulses.. the chips in mouse encoders lose counts sometimes
or use an absolute encoder
a printer/scanner i took apart used a linear encoder, so they can't be that expensive (it was plastic ribbon)
i've not much experience on this
a rotary encoder gives you really good resolution for the price
but usually you don't need that much resolution
The encoders on my servos are 1000CPR, or 4000 PPR
check out mechanical/electrical encoders.. they use them as adjustment dials on digital equipment all the time
with the gearing and ballscrews I have, I'll be getting 40,000 pulses per inch on the table
(which should be plenty :) )
i just get my optoswitches working tnx to Phydbleep :\ so, i have no idea of how digital circuits works
i hope so
optoswitches, being used as limit switches?
they seems work very well
dont like microswitches huh?
they called opto-interrupter
i'm testing in my cnc from a week ago
you are using them for homing, right?
no, for homing i don't know the procedure
for now, i can home only z axis
once the z axis is homed, i don't know how to do with the others
the + - limit switch are working, of course
well... supposedly you can't use the limit switches as home switches, since it goes into e-stop when it hits the limits
if you use microswitches, you can.
if i try to home a single axis it work
I think there's an option to use a limit as home
go in the direction i setting in ini file
I'm not sure if it's in the compile or in the ini
SWPadnos (I was talking about using the other connection on the microswitches NC/NO)
you can also override hte limit switch (wo you can jog back within limits)
the numbers from yellow become green
and stop to travel
so i assume it work
Jymmm: depends on the switch - make before break etc.
SWPadnos Eh, I'll leave extra room just in case =)
good idea :)
plus, the limits aren't necessarily in the same place as home