#emc | Logs for 2005-06-04

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[00:42:29] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[02:42:13] <weyland> howdy boyz
[03:19:06] <weyland> ne 1 home?
[03:20:51] <weyland> anyone? ... Bueller?
[03:22:20] <weyland> tap...tap...tap...
[03:22:26] <weyland> ...this thing on?
[03:23:57] <cradek> nope
[03:24:42] <weyland> Ah HA~!
[03:24:54] <weyland> you're funnin' me.,..
[03:25:15] <cradek> how do you know?
[03:25:43] <weyland> hmmmm.... welll. *sometimes* the voices come from the box....
[03:25:59] <cradek> ok you caught me
[03:26:03] <weyland> lol
[03:26:26] <weyland> looking for the pages that show what g&m codes are suported in emc
[03:26:50] <weyland> know anything about that?
[03:26:57] <cradek> let me try to find the link
[03:27:06] <weyland> or if you just know...
[03:27:14] <weyland> G162?
[03:28:39] <cradek> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/personnel/kramer/pubs/RS274NGC_3.web/RS274NGC_3TOC.html
[03:28:47] <cradek> this is the rs274 language spec
[03:29:14] <weyland> excellent
[03:29:16] <weyland> thank you
[03:29:22] <cradek> no g162
[03:29:28] <cradek> what's it supposed to do?
[03:29:28] <weyland> yeah, see that ...
[03:29:40] <weyland> sphere programming
[03:29:48] <cradek> ??
[03:30:00] <weyland> I need to cut a spherical cavity
[03:30:17] <weyland> and am not sure just where to start or how to program onw
[03:30:18] <weyland> one
[03:30:29] <weyland> actually, just a portion of a sphere
[03:30:43] <cradek> you will have to generate the toolpath yourself (programatically I assume)
[03:30:59] <weyland> well... therein lies the rub...
[03:31:04] <cradek> not a programmer?
[03:31:11] <weyland> I don't have access to cam anymore
[03:31:12] <weyland> no
[03:31:17] <weyland> I write by hand
[03:31:31] <weyland> "math it out" as it were
[03:31:45] <cradek> if you know the math, writing the program is just one more step
[03:32:04] <weyland> well, I know the parameters of the spherical section
[03:32:12] <cradek> does it have to be exactly spherical (meaning you will have to account for the tool shape?)
[03:32:33] <weyland> yes, I would like it to be, but I suppose *some* error could be forgiven
[03:33:09] <weyland> I've been doing it on a lathe, but would like to put it in the mill and have it do it
[03:33:13] <cradek> well imagine cutting a hemisphere with a ball-nose mill. the depth will be less than the diameter of the hole
[03:33:26] <weyland> yep
[03:33:26] <cradek> (if the tool path is along the hemisphere)
[03:33:52] <cradek> will you have to cut it in multiple passes?
[03:34:00] <weyland> oh yeah...
[03:34:20] <cradek> sounds like a non-trivial program then.
[03:34:24] <weyland> ?
[03:34:32] <weyland> hold on ... lemme get some info... brb
[03:34:48] <cradek> I'll brb too
[03:36:56] <weyland> k, am baq
[03:38:17] <cradek> back
[03:38:20] <weyland> k
[03:38:52] <weyland> stupid thing is, there are tools I can use to do this, but can't figure out the first step
[03:39:15] <weyland> for instance, if I could render it in solidworks, I could use freemill to code it
[03:39:27] <weyland> but I can't figure out how to do a hemishere in sw
[03:39:47] <cradek> subtract a sphere from a cube?
[03:39:55] <cradek> (I don't know anything about any solids modelers)
[03:40:11] <weyland> imaging that would work, but beyond my present knowledge
[03:40:19] <weyland> imagine
[03:40:39] <weyland> there's GOTTA be a somewhat simple way to math it
[03:41:22] <cradek> sure there is, you convert from spherical to rectangular coordinates and iterate through the sphere
[03:41:31] <weyland> ?
[03:41:36] <weyland> ummm....
[03:41:38] <weyland> HUH?
[03:41:45] <cradek> x = r sin theta cos phi, y = r sin theta sin phi, z = r cos theta
[03:41:48] <weyland> OHHHH...
[03:41:57] <cradek> or something like that
[03:42:01] <weyland> right. but that's a LOT of rewriting
[03:42:13] <weyland> and...
[03:42:26] <weyland> how the FSCK did you just spit that out like that?
[03:42:28] <weyland> :)
[03:42:38] <weyland> that's GOT to be a sign of illness
[03:42:49] <cradek> I wish I could say I remembered it from calculus class, but I just looked it up
[03:42:56] <weyland> HAhahahahahahaha
[03:43:00] <cradek> all you have to remember from calculus class is *what to look for*
[03:43:07] <weyland> yep~!
[03:43:20] <weyland> had an old teacher that oft said,
[03:43:35] <weyland> I don't expect you to remember every formula written
[03:43:43] <weyland> but I do expect you to know where to look it up
[03:44:42] <weyland> so I'm trying to "look up" my problem
[03:48:26] <cradek> I think I've written the skeleton program, let me see if the output looks right
[03:48:40] <weyland> brb, just got an offer to help me code it
[03:48:45] <weyland> oops
[03:48:57] <weyland> okay, I'll be eright baw
[03:49:00] <weyland> baq
[03:51:36] <weyland> k, baq
[03:51:56] <weyland> what did you use to write the skeleton?
[03:51:59] <cradek> well, 360*180 G1s is probably not the optimal solution here
[03:52:05] <cradek> python
[03:52:08] <weyland> lol
[03:52:10] <weyland> oh kewl
[03:52:37] <weyland> sometimes I envy you programmers
[03:52:42] <weyland> *sometimes*
[04:05:49] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/hemisphere
[04:07:22] <weyland> going to go look
[04:08:13] <weyland> <sigh....>
[04:08:25] <weyland> I'm looking at the screen, thinking it looks REALLY kewl...
[04:08:41] <weyland> but in my head, all I hear is Charlie Brown's teacher...
[04:08:53] <weyland> Wha wha... whawha wha whaa whaaa...
[04:09:10] <weyland> <insert muffled trombone sounds>
[04:09:14] <cradek> hmm.
[04:09:27] <weyland> does that only workin axis?
[04:09:36] <weyland> or is it an outside program?
[04:09:36] <cradek> no, I just used axis to display it.
[04:09:41] <weyland> Oh, okay
[04:09:43] <cradek> it= the gcode
[04:09:50] <weyland> kewlio~!
[04:09:51] <cradek> the gcode is generated by the python program
[04:09:56] <cradek> see the line that says print "G01 ...
[04:10:15] <weyland> how can I test it?
[04:10:20] <weyland> no, I see a print m02
[04:10:25] <cradek> above that
[04:10:29] <cradek> inside the loop
[04:10:33] <weyland> AH~!
[04:10:36] <weyland> Forgive me
[04:10:40] <weyland> I'm a dumbshit
[04:10:42] <cradek> no problem
[04:11:03] <weyland> BTW ~!
[04:11:18] <weyland> I need to work on getting opengl on my box so I can try axis again
[04:11:23] <cradek> see, it loops through theta, and inside that, it loops through phi. For every combination of theta,phi it calculates x,y,z and prints a G01 command.
[04:11:45] <weyland> that's very kewl, dude
[04:11:49] <cradek> dtor is a function that takes in degrees and puts out radians
[04:11:54] <weyland> just thinking out loud here...
[04:12:48] <weyland> would it be desireable to just do two axis arcs in the x,z planes (or y,z planes) and use a step over to rotate around the circle?
[04:12:59] <cradek> definitely
[04:13:14] <weyland> wondering if it might reduce things a bit
[04:13:22] <cradek> yes of course
[04:13:31] <weyland> what I couldn't figure out was how to do the step-over
[04:13:32] <cradek> this first program is the "simple stupid" way of doing it
[04:13:39] <weyland> no, no, no...
[04:13:49] <weyland> don't take that as criticism
[04:13:53] <weyland> I'm simply spit-balling
[04:13:55] <cradek> no of course not
[04:14:07] <weyland> thinking out loud as it were
[04:14:08] <cradek> you should definitely draw circles.
[04:14:31] <cradek> aside from the programming, do you understand the math involved here?
[04:14:31] <weyland> ?
[04:15:14] <weyland> vaguely, I understand what you're proposing, but don't get the "how you did it"
[04:15:37] <cradek> if you understand the math, you are plenty smart enough to read the start of the python tutorial to learn to make these basic programs.
[04:15:49] <weyland> TIME
[04:15:54] <weyland> my biggest enemy
[04:16:11] <weyland> I also just bought a lathe today to convert for EMC
[04:16:24] <cradek> well, sometimes you can either spend time or money to get your results.
[04:16:35] <cradek> you will NOT regret spending the time to learn to write basic programs.
[04:16:39] <weyland> most often it's a combination of both for me
[04:16:47] <weyland> oh, I know
[04:16:56] <weyland> it's just finding the time to do it
[04:17:03] <weyland> it's not an aversion to it
[04:17:28] <weyland> I did some simple bash and perl scripting in a former life
[04:17:42] <cradek> it's my bedtime... lots of work to do tomorrow!
[04:17:52] <cradek> good night - good luck with your project
[04:17:54] <weyland> how can I test that
[04:17:55] <weyland> ?
[04:18:07] <weyland> Wait....
[04:18:11] <weyland> lol
[04:18:24] <cradek> you can copy the program into a file "hemisphere.py". then run it with "python hemisphere.py"
[04:18:38] <weyland> kewl, THANK you
[04:18:39] <cradek> send the output to a file with "python hemisphere.py > hemisphere.ngc"
[04:18:44] <cradek> then run it in emc
[04:18:46] <weyland> excellent
[04:19:04] <weyland> you rock the casbah
[04:19:06] <cradek> then, change it around to do what you actually want
[04:19:50] <cradek> since it's all wrong (the hemisphere isn't in negative Z for instance)
[04:19:59] <cradek> ok, goodnight
[04:20:08] <weyland> kewl, thanks again
[04:20:11] <weyland> nite
[04:20:12] <cradek> welcome
[06:00:03] <fenn> yeehaw
[06:11:54] <A-L-P-H-A> boo
[06:12:00] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, bookmark
[06:12:00] <A-L-P-H-A> See http://193.226.12.129/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2005-06-04#T06-12-00
[06:23:09] <fenn> ValarQ, still there?
[06:35:18] <A-L-P-H-A> I took him out into the alley and mugged him. he'll be in the alleyway
[06:36:40] <fenn> ah, good.
[06:39:38] <fenn> fenn is now known as fenn_afk
[07:49:35] <ValarQ> fenn_afk: now i am
[08:50:46] <robin_sz> meep?
[09:38:03] <ValarQ> who is meep?
[09:52:39] <veki> hi
[09:53:05] <veki> do you have any manuals or how-to - documents to install BDi with RT patches
[10:00:56] <anonimasu> morning everyone
[10:01:26] <anonimasu> robin_sz: meep meep!
[10:07:10] <veki> hi
[10:22:26] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[10:22:35] <anonimasu> hm, perhaps I should have a shower and go to work
[11:46:00] <jacky^> morning
[11:49:14] <jacky^> is there anyone working to translate emc documantation in other languages ?
[12:15:38] <alex_joni> grettings all
[12:15:52] <jacky^> hi alex_joni
[12:16:03] <alex_joni> hey jacky^
[12:16:10] <alex_joni> got things running?
[12:16:35] <alex_joni> Imperator_: you around?
[12:16:46] <Imperator_> Hi Laex
[12:16:52] <Imperator_> grr
[12:16:54] <Imperator_> Alex
[12:16:57] <alex_joni> yo Amrtin
[12:16:58] <alex_joni> :D
[12:16:59] <Imperator_> how are you
[12:17:01] <jacky^> yes, quite well, i'm in the part PID Tuning.. very hard ! i'm studing :)
[12:17:22] <alex_joni> jacky^: you running servos?
[12:17:31] <jacky^> steppers
[12:17:33] <alex_joni> Imperator_: pretty ok, got a long sleep last night :)
[12:17:38] <jacky^> no need ?
[12:17:41] <alex_joni> steppers don't need PID tuning
[12:17:46] <alex_joni> right
[12:17:50] <alex_joni> use stepgen
[12:17:58] <alex_joni> should be ok
[12:18:49] <jacky^> i heard of steppermod, but seem not available on my installation, will try stepgen
[12:19:02] <jacky^> thanks :)
[12:19:13] <Imperator_> Is emc2 now running on 2.6 with the original period time ???
[12:20:53] <alex_joni> Imperator_: sure
[12:21:03] <alex_joni> jacky^: what installadtion do you use?
[12:21:10] <alex_joni> I thought you were using emc2
[12:21:13] <Imperator_> cool, what was the problem
[12:21:18] <alex_joni> Imperator_: there was a bug in rtapi
[12:21:28] <alex_joni> one paul_c spotted a while back ;)
[12:21:39] <alex_joni> but it didn't get fixed till now
[12:21:49] <jacky^> alex_joni: i'm using BDI 4.20 on a cely 800 256 mb ram
[12:21:57] <alex_joni> right
[12:22:01] <alex_joni> then you're running emc1
[12:22:03] <alex_joni> ok
[12:22:11] <alex_joni> lemme check a bit on the sources
[12:23:46] <Imperator_> have holidayy this month :-)
[12:24:20] <Imperator_> and I hope to finish the hardware of our emc servo card in that time
[12:24:22] <alex_joni> nice :D
[12:24:32] <alex_joni> cool
[12:28:26] <jacky^> * jacky^ is going to connect irc from the other pc..
[12:34:04] <alex_joni> Martin: how's life for you?
[12:34:10] <alex_joni> didn't see you in a while
[12:34:11] <alex_joni> :)
[12:39:41] <Imperator_> alex_joni: I was the last week at the Largo di Garda (Gardasee) with the mountainbike !!!
[12:39:53] <alex_joni> nice
[12:40:01] <alex_joni> which side?
[12:40:01] <Imperator_> it was great, every day about 1500m up
[12:40:07] <alex_joni> great :)
[12:40:08] <Imperator_> in the north
[12:40:20] <Imperator_> that is nor or less germany :-)
[12:40:24] <Imperator_> more
[12:40:32] <alex_joni> right
[12:40:40] <alex_joni> thought it was austria ;)
[12:40:48] <Imperator_> italy
[12:41:56] <Imperator_> it seams that the italian have divided the lake in different aereas for the tourists
[12:42:21] <jacky^> hi
[12:42:28] <alex_joni> Imperator_: right
[12:42:30] <alex_joni> jacky^: wb
[12:42:37] <Imperator_> the north (Riva and torbole) is for the german speeking, Lemone for the American, ...
[12:42:44] <alex_joni> on the BDI4 you definately need to use freqmod
[12:43:48] <alex_joni> jacky^: but I'm not sure you need to adjust PID very much...
[12:44:39] <jacky^> alex_joni: aniway i would like to try the same
[12:44:47] <jacky^> just to learn
[12:45:00] <alex_joni> right
[12:45:13] <alex_joni> you'll want to touch P, and maybe FF0
[12:46:58] <jacky^> i printed about 80 pages of handbook pdf (the most rilevant sections, configuring emc, .ini , etc.))
[12:47:08] <alex_joni> right
[12:47:32] <jacky^> i'm going to try to configure these sections
[12:47:58] <alex_joni> standard config should get you move the motors
[12:48:10] <alex_joni> but it's ok to tweak ;)
[12:48:14] <jacky^> oh, sure
[12:48:47] <jacky^> i tried generic.ini just changed IO variable to my isa card, it work
[12:49:02] <alex_joni> nice
[12:49:07] <jacky^> i also made my firts little penguin some day ago
[12:49:10] <alex_joni> you have a parport isa card?
[12:49:14] <jacky^> chips3d :)
[12:49:18] <alex_joni> jacky^: got a pic of that?
[12:49:34] <jacky^> the card i will use will be pci
[12:49:46] <jacky^> for now, i'm testing with an old isa card
[12:50:17] <jacky^> because i've not optoisolators on IO board..
[12:50:51] <jacky^> alex_joni: no pic, sorry..
[12:51:30] <jacky^> i tried 3-4 time chips3d starting with different position
[12:51:48] <jacky^> using a small drill tool about 1 mm
[12:52:24] <jacky^> the result is a small penguin about 1 x 3 cm (i don't know in inches..)
[12:52:44] <jacky^> i tried with poliester material
[12:53:00] <Imperator_> What PCI Card do you want to use ?
[12:53:49] <jacky^> Imperator_: i already have a pci parallel card i bought some year ago
[12:54:04] <Imperator_> ah, ok
[12:54:16] <jacky^> i'm a newbie, i don't know much about supported mode
[12:54:45] <jacky^> aniway i'ts a recent model
[12:55:10] <jacky^> i think should work fine
[12:59:22] <jacky^> i'm a little confused about how to setup input_scale and output_scale in the axis sections.. i need to read more to understand
[13:01:08] <alex_joni> you set those based on what you're driving
[13:01:41] <alex_joni> you need to calculate how many pulses you need to travel a unit
[13:01:41] <alex_joni> say you use mm
[13:01:49] <alex_joni> and you have a stepper (with 400 steps / turning)
[13:01:58] <jacky^> 200 step
[13:02:04] <alex_joni> ok 200
[13:02:09] <alex_joni> what does the stepper drive?
[13:02:10] <jacky^> 2 Amp motors
[13:02:32] <alex_joni> no I mean .. rack & pinion?
[13:02:35] <alex_joni> or screw?
[13:02:44] <jacky^> mmhh :\
[13:02:55] <jacky^> i have no idea..
[13:03:02] <jacky^> * jacky^ take a dictionary..
[13:03:06] <alex_joni> how does your table look like?
[13:03:12] <alex_joni> I mean your machine
[13:03:16] <alex_joni> you have the motors
[13:03:22] <alex_joni> and those are connected to what?
[13:03:23] <jacky^> i can give you an url..
[13:03:32] <alex_joni> ok
[13:03:40] <jacky^> the project i follow
[13:03:44] <jacky^> a moment..
[13:05:36] <jacky^> for the meccanical parts look like these: http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=75
[13:05:47] <jacky^> very inexpensive cnc
[13:07:11] <jacky^> for the circuit side
[13:07:21] <jacky^> i build from myself a controllers
[13:07:44] <jacky^> the schematic i used is in http://www.yty.net/cnc/Steppermotordriver.pdf
[13:09:41] <alex_joni> jacky^: look at http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=75&pos=0
[13:10:15] <jacky^> yes, is this
[13:10:45] <alex_joni> those are screws
[13:11:01] <alex_joni> with the motors on them
[13:11:19] <alex_joni> so you need to know how far the table travels on one motor revolution
[13:11:56] <jacky^> yes, i've read it on handbook.. but i don't kown how to calculate it
[13:12:15] <alex_joni> that depends on the pitch of the screw
[13:12:32] <alex_joni> or you can measure it.. not that precise as it datasheets
[13:12:36] <alex_joni> what screw did you use?
[13:12:49] <jacky^> maybe just moving manually and reading the value on emc ?
[13:12:56] <jacky^> screw are 6 mm
[13:13:11] <alex_joni> jacky^: that's diameter
[13:13:16] <jacky^> yes
[13:13:38] <alex_joni> ok.. do this
[13:13:48] <alex_joni> mark the position on the table
[13:13:55] <alex_joni> and manually rotate the screw 10 times
[13:14:03] <alex_joni> and measure the distance the table moved
[13:14:51] <jacky^> manually you mean from emc software using a command ?
[13:15:04] <alex_joni> no..by hand ;)
[13:15:09] <alex_joni> but you can do it by emc too
[13:15:10] <jacky^> ah ok
[13:15:13] <jacky^> ok, ok,
[13:15:24] <alex_joni> enter input_scale and output_scale = 2000
[13:15:36] <jacky^> well
[13:15:38] <alex_joni> and from emc issue G0X1Y1Z1
[13:15:48] <alex_joni> and measure the distance the table has moved on the axes
[13:16:26] <alex_joni> input_scale means that for 1 unit (X1) it'll output 2000 pulses
[13:16:38] <alex_joni> 200 pulses will make the motor turn exactly one turn
[13:16:47] <alex_joni> hence 2000 will make it travel 10 turns
[13:17:17] <jacky^> aha ! thanks a lot :-)
[13:17:27] <jacky^> now it's more clear
[13:18:45] <jacky^> alex_joni: i also get 3 of these: http://www.rs-components.it/cgi-bin/bv/browse/Module.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0880983121.1117890987@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccckaddekjiehflcefeceefdffhdgmn.0&cacheID=itnetscape&3295343819=3295343819&catoid=-167976631
[13:19:10] <jacky^> motors now are responding very well
[13:21:42] <alex_joni> nice
[13:22:32] <jacky^> :-)
[13:23:49] <alex_joni> next you need to figure out how much it traveled
[13:23:49] <alex_joni> and adjust that value (2000)
[13:23:56] <alex_joni> so that on G0X1 it will travel 1mm
[13:24:14] <jacky^> i'm going to apply your directives :-)
[13:24:33] <jacky^> will see soon..
[13:24:35] <alex_joni> heh
[13:24:39] <jacky^> :D
[14:15:09] <ValarQ> hello folks
[14:15:14] <ValarQ> alex_joni: got a min?
[14:16:27] <alex_joni> ValarQ: sure
[14:17:15] <ValarQ> alex_joni: i changed the stepgen type as you told me but emc2 keep telling me that there is no pin named stepgen.0.phase-A
[14:17:43] <alex_joni> hang on a moment
[14:17:43] <ValarQ> alex_joni: do i have to unload hal to get it working?
[14:17:43] <ValarQ> * ValarQ is hanging on a moment
[14:17:56] <alex_joni> you're using stepping type 4 ?
[14:18:02] <ValarQ> no, 2
[14:18:57] <alex_joni> hmmm for stepping type 2 you have:
[14:19:04] <alex_joni> stepgen.0.phase-A
[14:19:10] <alex_joni> stepgen.0.phase-B
[14:19:22] <alex_joni> did you shutdown emc?
[14:19:26] <ValarQ> or, i should have...
[14:19:34] <ValarQ> yes, i have restarted emc
[14:19:47] <alex_joni> lemme try it too
[14:19:51] <ValarQ> ok
[14:20:21] <alex_joni> you can do it manually like this
[14:20:28] <alex_joni> inside emc2
[14:20:30] <alex_joni> sudo scripts/realtime start
[14:20:50] <alex_joni> should insmod neccessary RT modules
[14:20:53] <alex_joni> next
[14:21:00] <alex_joni> sudo su (enter as root)
[14:21:19] <alex_joni> insmod rtlib/stepgen.ko cfg="2 2 2"
[14:21:28] <alex_joni> bin/halcmd show
[14:21:40] <alex_joni> should show you loaded components and pins
[14:22:23] <ValarQ> ok
[14:22:27] <ValarQ> * ValarQ is testing
[14:22:45] <alex_joni> it seems to work here
[14:22:52] <alex_joni> I only changed core_stepper.hal
[14:23:06] <alex_joni> changed the config for stepgen from "0 0 0" to "2 2 2"
[14:23:55] <alex_joni> then I changed the link for Xstep and Xdir from stepgen.0.step and stepgen.0.dir to stepgen.0.phase-A and stepgen.0.phase-B
[14:27:16] <ValarQ> alex_joni: yeah, my problem seams to be that the module doesn't change the pins or it doesn't get unloaded correctly
[14:27:31] <ValarQ> alex_joni: i listed the pins with halcmd and step and dir is still there
[14:29:05] <alex_joni> seems like your module doesn't get loaded correctly
[14:29:18] <alex_joni> probably there's already a stepgen resident
[14:29:23] <alex_joni> try rrmod stepgen as root
[14:29:26] <alex_joni> rmmod
[14:29:53] <ValarQ> i did, and then i listen the pins with halcmd like you wrote
[14:30:12] <ValarQ> same result, the module seems to ignore my cfg parameter
[14:30:49] <ValarQ> it really looks like it's unloaded correctly
[14:32:05] <alex_joni> paste me the command line you used to load the module
[14:32:12] <alex_joni> I assume you do that as root
[14:32:42] <SWPadnos> dmesg might be your friend here :)
[14:32:54] <alex_joni> yo Stephen
[14:33:01] <SWPadnos> hi Alex
[14:33:28] <ValarQ> alex_joni: insmod rtlib/stepgen.ko cfg="2 2 2"
[14:33:41] <alex_joni> try dmesg
[14:33:45] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: busy?
[14:33:47] <ValarQ> alex_joni: yeah, uid=0 :)
[14:33:59] <SWPadnos> slightly - I have relatives visiting
[14:34:02] <SWPadnos> what's up?
[14:34:15] <alex_joni> was wondering about make fooconfig
[14:34:21] <ValarQ> unknown parameter "cfg
[14:34:26] <ValarQ> what the heck?!?
[14:34:32] <alex_joni> hmmm
[14:34:41] <alex_joni> so it starts up using defaults
[14:34:54] <ValarQ> yeah
[14:35:06] <alex_joni> use modinfo rtlib/stepgen.ko
[14:35:09] <SWPadnos> see - dmesg *is* your friend :)
[14:35:18] <alex_joni> see if cfg:config string appears
[14:35:30] <ValarQ> SWPadnos: yeah, so it would seem :)
[14:35:52] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I like the way RTAI people did it
[14:36:05] <ValarQ> alex_joni: it does
[14:36:08] <alex_joni> they just took over the code from the 2.5 kernels (the kbuild menu stuff)
[14:36:16] <SWPadnos> the qconf thing, then an automatic ./configure?
[14:36:17] <ValarQ> alex_joni: but i wonder why it interprets the name as "cfg
[14:36:34] <alex_joni> try cfg=2
[14:37:21] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: ./configure, then an automatic make menu config
[14:37:24] <ValarQ> alex_joni: that works!
[14:37:25] <alex_joni> then an automatic make
[14:37:30] <alex_joni> maybe all of those
[14:37:38] <alex_joni> ValarQ: strange .. :(
[14:37:39] <ValarQ> alex_joni: now i got a type 2 stepgen
[14:37:42] <SWPadnos> hmmm - was that it?
[14:37:57] <alex_joni> ValarQ: but you need 3 of those
[14:37:59] <SWPadnos> I thought you still had to make again
[14:38:05] <SWPadnos> but I could be wrong
[14:38:18] <alex_joni> anyways.. you can put all in a script
[14:38:28] <ValarQ> alex_joni: yeah
[14:38:33] <alex_joni> but the make menuconfig per se is pretty nice
[14:38:39] <alex_joni> ValarQ: try cfg='2 2 2'
[14:38:47] <ValarQ> alex_joni: same result
[14:38:52] <alex_joni> or maybe comment the " out
[14:38:57] <SWPadnos> You'd want the user to select from oldconfig, menuconfig, config, etc.
[14:39:01] <alex_joni> cfg=\"2 2 2\"
[14:39:07] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yeah..
[14:39:14] <alex_joni> was using menuconfig as a general name
[14:39:18] <alex_joni> fooconfig
[14:39:32] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: ./configure might figure that out
[14:39:37] <ValarQ> alex_joni: that last one worked
[14:39:49] <ValarQ> alex_joni: weird...
[14:39:52] <alex_joni> 1. if GTK is not available .. strike gconfig
[14:39:59] <SWPadnos> so a "make" should have a sane default (though sane probably means ugly, since it would probably need to be config or menuconfig)
[14:40:01] <alex_joni> ValarQ: seems your shell is eating it ;)
[14:40:17] <alex_joni> make by default makes all, as in everything
[14:40:34] <alex_joni> if you do a make menuconfig, you might be able to specify some drivers you won't need
[14:40:42] <alex_joni> or qconfig
[14:40:52] <alex_joni> or mysqlconfig for what I care ;)
[14:41:18] <jacky^> bye all
[14:41:19] <SWPadnos> it sort of does anyway, since all of the *configs use libkconfig (or whatever it was called)
[14:41:22] <alex_joni> jacky^: bye
[14:41:26] <SWPadnos> see ya
[14:41:29] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: right
[14:41:39] <alex_joni> well.. what I care of,
[14:41:49] <alex_joni> 1. add the stuff to emc2 (maybe in a branch)
[14:41:54] <SWPadnos> the interesting thing is that they included the entire kconfig source tree in their distribution
[14:42:02] <SWPadnos> it's only around 150k or something
[14:42:02] <alex_joni> yeah
[14:42:09] <alex_joni> exactly
[14:42:13] <alex_joni> but it saves you a LOT of headaches
[14:42:35] <SWPadnos> I was looking at that as well, since they managed to remove the kernel-specific checks (like for /boot/config-`uname -a`
[14:42:48] <SWPadnos> I agree wholeheartedly
[14:43:20] <alex_joni> so I think it's a good thing
[14:43:32] <alex_joni> ValarQ: just say if you need further assistance
[14:43:39] <SWPadnos> actually, a plain make should just use the current config, not make all
[14:43:54] <alex_joni> didn't quite get that
[14:43:56] <SWPadnos> there is an "allyesconfig" target as well
[14:44:13] <SWPadnos> it shouldn't make all modules
[14:44:18] <ValarQ> alex_joni: ok
[14:44:49] <SWPadnos> If I set up a config, and I'm working on one module, then a make shouldn't select things I chose not to build
[14:48:11] <ValarQ> alex_joni: can i invert the output from stepgen?
[14:48:32] <ValarQ> alex_joni: and output it on another parport pin
[14:48:38] <alex_joni> ValarQ: you don't have to
[14:48:52] <alex_joni> you simply need to connect it to the inverted parport pin
[14:49:07] <ValarQ> alex_joni: oh, thanks
[14:49:13] <alex_joni> look at standard_pinout.hal
[14:49:14] <ValarQ> * ValarQ checks all the pins
[14:49:33] <alex_joni> instead of parport.0.pin-02-out
[14:50:16] <alex_joni> you'll want parport.0.pin-02-out-invert
[14:50:27] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: sorry was away for a bit
[14:50:34] <alex_joni> * alex_joni grabbed some spear ribs
[14:50:54] <alex_joni> now...
[14:51:15] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I think a .config generated in the main dir, and included by kbuild Makefiles would be ok
[14:57:11] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: still there?
[14:58:34] <ValarQ> alex_joni: it shows up in the pinlist but emc complains that it doesn't exists when i start it
[14:59:08] <alex_joni> hmm.. try this
[14:59:16] <alex_joni> 1. start realtime
[14:59:27] <alex_joni> 2. use halcmd to load core_stepper.hal
[14:59:56] <alex_joni> bin/halcmd configs/core_stepper.hal
[15:00:11] <alex_joni> and see if stepgen gets loaded ok
[15:00:24] <alex_joni> then bin/halcmd configs/standard_pinout.hal
[15:00:36] <alex_joni> presuming that the above hal files are the ones changed by you
[15:01:36] <ValarQ> i can't load the .hal file with that command
[15:01:50] <alex_joni> does it say anything?
[15:02:02] <SWPadnos> sorry - was afk for a bit
[15:02:12] <SWPadnos> gotta eat with the family now - I'll be back later
[15:02:22] <ValarQ> alex_joni: unknown command 'configs/blah.hal'
[15:02:25] <alex_joni> ValarQ: sorry...
[15:02:35] <alex_joni> bin/halcmd < configs/blah.hal
[15:02:43] <alex_joni> nah
[15:02:47] <alex_joni> hang on a mom
[15:03:37] <alex_joni> bin/halcmd -f configs/blah.hal
[15:04:09] <ValarQ> ERROR: function 'stepgen.capture_position' not found
[15:04:25] <alex_joni> that's supposed to be stepgen.0.
[15:04:31] <ValarQ> hmm
[15:04:39] <alex_joni> or not?
[15:05:09] <alex_joni> nah.. it's a function
[15:05:14] <alex_joni> I wonder why it's not there
[15:05:14] <ValarQ> 6th line in core_stepper.hal
[15:05:41] <alex_joni> seen it
[15:05:44] <ValarQ> is it wrong in the cvs?
[15:05:48] <alex_joni> hmm.. it should work
[15:05:50] <alex_joni> nope
[15:06:31] <ValarQ> * ValarQ inverts it in hardware instead
[15:06:32] <alex_joni> sounds like stepgen didn't get loaded
[15:06:35] <alex_joni> try using -f
[15:06:37] <ValarQ> i am curious thought
[15:06:38] <alex_joni> -v
[15:08:33] <alex_joni> halcmd -v should make it verbose
[15:09:16] <ValarQ> not more verbose
[15:09:28] <alex_joni> -V
[15:09:30] <alex_joni> then
[15:10:00] <ValarQ> but it really can wait, i'm walking around the problem as the wuss i am...
[15:10:49] <alex_joni> yo Rayh
[15:11:09] <rayh> Hi Alex. How are you.
[15:11:14] <alex_joni> thx.. pretty ok
[15:11:22] <rayh> Good.
[15:11:30] <rayh> The weather is beautiful today.
[15:11:53] <alex_joni> nice.. same here
[15:12:04] <alex_joni> but I'm too lazy to get outside :)
[15:12:24] <rayh> Ah. I'm stuck for a bit working on some gui stuff.
[15:12:55] <alex_joni> what gui?
[15:12:57] <alex_joni> :)
[15:13:10] <rayh> Say the configure stuff works really well with emc2.
[15:13:16] <rayh> Nice addition to the code.
[15:13:20] <alex_joni> nice to hear that
[15:13:31] <rayh> It's for a snowplow project.
[15:13:36] <alex_joni> was thinking on doing some more stuff to the build rocess
[15:13:48] <alex_joni> ahh.. nice ;) (I'd like some snow now)
[15:14:17] <rayh> Guy is thinking of a 12 way snowplow and needs easy 2 button operation.
[15:14:24] <rayh> We just got rid of our snow.
[15:14:49] <alex_joni> we are heaving some cooler weather these days
[15:14:52] <alex_joni> about 28 C
[15:14:55] <alex_joni> :)
[15:15:07] <alex_joni> was up to 35 at the beginning of the week :(
[15:15:22] <rayh> That's warm. Is it also humid?
[15:16:07] <rayh> a lot of moistue in the air?
[15:16:07] <alex_joni> it's too warm
[15:16:18] <alex_joni> I don't look forward to the summer
[15:16:25] <alex_joni> it usually gets about 40 here :(
[15:16:37] <alex_joni> that's .. yucky... can't really work when it's that hot
[15:16:40] <rayh> That is much to warm.
[15:16:40] <alex_joni> can't even sleep
[15:16:51] <rayh> I know the feeling.
[15:16:55] <alex_joni> and AC's give me a headache
[15:17:09] <rayh> But most times we get a nice breeze from the lake.
[15:17:13] <alex_joni> rayh: you have compiled kernels, didn't you?
[15:17:29] <rayh> Yes
[15:17:40] <alex_joni> what do you think of make menuconfig & co
[15:17:45] <alex_joni> ?
[15:17:46] <rayh> Only when I am forced to.
[15:17:58] <rayh> I believe that it is the only way to go.
[15:18:17] <alex_joni> yeah.. but how about using it in emc2's build process?
[15:18:29] <alex_joni> maybe have a default config (that builds everything)
[15:18:35] <rayh> With a Kbuild system, we can make very specific sets of executables.
[15:18:50] <alex_joni> but a user could 'make manuconfig' or 'make qconfig' to select only some
[15:19:02] <alex_joni> I was thinking more about modules, but yes
[15:19:29] <rayh> You bet. And this get's around code blocks that do not build properly.
[15:19:40] <alex_joni> which isn't used
[15:19:43] <alex_joni> right
[15:19:48] <rayh> SWPadnos: and I were talking yesterday
[15:19:55] <alex_joni> seems there are 2 ways
[15:19:58] <rayh> It's this or a dll
[15:20:23] <alex_joni> 1. complicate things to the outermost extent, and search for menuconfig & co in kernel sources
[15:20:39] <alex_joni> 2. include fooconfig stuff in emc2 (only about 150 k)
[15:21:04] <rayh> I greatly favor making it specific to emc
[15:21:21] <alex_joni> well.. it wouldn't be very specific, but we can work from there
[15:21:51] <rayh> You did some prelim work on Kbuild, didn't you.
[15:22:09] <alex_joni> well.. depends on how you see it *g*
[15:22:19] <alex_joni> emc2 currently uses Kbuild for the modules
[15:22:28] <alex_joni> as that's the standard way of building modules on 2.
[15:22:29] <alex_joni> 2.6
[15:22:55] <alex_joni> the stuff SWPadnos started, and I worked a bit on, was using the same process (Kbuild) for a emc-configurator
[15:23:04] <rayh> I believe that menuconfig, kbuild, and such would allow for a wide range
[15:23:23] <rayh> of types of ...
[15:23:33] <rayh> damn I don't even know what the word is.
[15:23:34] <alex_joni> so the user specifies what kind of machine he has, thus implicitely selecting SW that needs to get compiled
[15:23:36] <rayh> systems.
[15:23:41] <alex_joni> heh
[15:24:04] <rayh> compiled and/or linked
[15:24:08] <rayh> and/or configured
[15:24:08] <alex_joni> right
[15:24:29] <alex_joni> also .. maybe create some custom config files based on predefined samples
[15:24:38] <rayh> I believe that the underlying rules associated with these programs
[15:24:38] <alex_joni> like jmk did for stepping and servo
[15:25:34] <rayh> Yes. I think it could be applied to tasks throughout the setup, make if necessary, and selection of personality can call be done with a single interface.
[15:26:00] <alex_joni> ok.. I'll start looking at it, see what I can do
[15:26:13] <alex_joni> maybe discuss it tomorrow on wider extent, before commiting the code
[15:26:26] <rayh> With kbuild, the help systems can use some elementary html
[15:26:35] <alex_joni> yes
[15:26:45] <rayh> This would allow for images.
[15:26:59] <rayh> For me, this would really help with HAL and other modules.
[15:27:09] <alex_joni> heh..
[15:30:24] <rayh> phone brb
[15:31:37] <rayh> alex_joni: Okay. Another thought
[15:31:54] <rayh> Want your opinion on task
[15:32:30] <alex_joni> a bit more specific?
[15:33:07] <rayh> Lot's more specific. First right now task simply "appends" NML
[15:33:22] <alex_joni> appends?
[15:33:33] <rayh> to the stream of commands (canonicals) from interpreter.
[15:33:39] <alex_joni> right
[15:33:59] <rayh> An example is the tool change moves that Fred added for me.
[15:34:29] <rayh> When the M6 command comes to task, it prepends a move if a position has been specified,
[15:34:42] <alex_joni> hmmm.. I haven't looked at it very much
[15:34:54] <alex_joni> but I feel that some kind of scripting support is needed
[15:35:03] <alex_joni> interpreter reads that a script is called
[15:35:13] <alex_joni> and maybe task parses the script
[15:35:23] <alex_joni> which can contain IO, motion, stuff
[15:35:36] <rayh> IMO task reads the script or sends stuff to a module
[15:35:54] <alex_joni> make that and
[15:36:05] <rayh> and task is in charge of the execution of the whole process.
[15:36:07] <alex_joni> task reads the script, interprets it and send stuff to modules
[15:36:13] <alex_joni> right
[15:36:25] <rayh> I'm thinking of modules way above SHMEM
[15:36:41] <alex_joni> modules = iocontroller, motion controller, gui, etc
[15:36:41] <rayh> modules that get plugged into task.
[15:37:13] <rayh> Something like that.
[15:37:21] <rayh> Task is always running.
[15:37:45] <rayh> It passes stuff through a module for things like gear change or tool change
[15:37:46] <alex_joni> right
[15:37:51] <rayh> or palet change
[15:38:00] <rayh> But it is still inside task.
[15:38:19] <rayh> so that task can coordinate motion and IO.
[15:38:25] <alex_joni> right
[15:39:16] <rayh> I think of it a bit like decks of cards.
[15:39:37] <rayh> Right now there is one deck made by the interpreter.
[15:39:59] <rayh> Task can stick stuff in as a card goes by.
[15:40:31] <rayh> and eventually the stack gets delt out to motion and IO
[15:41:52] <alex_joni> ok
[15:42:03] <rayh> The way I imagine it is different.
[15:42:21] <rayh> interp free runs building it's stack of canonicals.
[15:43:13] <rayh> task grabs those and applies machine logic to them.
[15:43:43] <bricolou> jour ;)
[15:44:01] <alex_joni> bon jour
[15:44:08] <rayh> We would take stuff like how to react to an m02
[15:44:18] <rayh> out of the interp and put them in task.
[15:44:23] <alex_joni> right
[15:45:53] <rayh> phone bbaab
[15:46:12] <alex_joni> bricolou: what's up?
[15:46:27] <bricolou> noting ;)
[15:46:51] <bricolou> I'm just realised the EMC setup n my CNC
[15:47:06] <alex_joni> nice
[15:47:11] <alex_joni> got pics for that?
[15:47:15] <bricolou> but i've not time to run it
[15:47:36] <bricolou> ys i've pics wait
[15:49:09] <bricolou> i put 4 pics on my web sever at http://www.serge.izoard.dyndns.org/cnc/
[15:50:03] <bricolou> I take it during setup ;)
[15:50:07] <alex_joni> looking now
[15:51:20] <alex_joni> looks great
[15:51:29] <bricolou> I have not ended the Z axe
[15:54:02] <bricolou> sorry for my poor anglish ;)
[15:54:18] <alex_joni> no problem
[15:54:31] <alex_joni> not a native english speaker myself.. so I don't care ;)
[15:54:47] <rayh> Hey. You are doing great.
[15:55:39] <alex_joni> morning paul_c
[15:56:06] <paul_c> alex_joni: slap
[15:56:15] <bricolou> not realy, 400 x 500 x 100 mm
[15:56:18] <alex_joni> what did I do?
[15:56:29] <paul_c> [16:54:28] <alex_joni> morning paul_c
[15:56:42] <alex_joni> welll
[15:56:49] <alex_joni> [18:54] <alex_joni> morning paul_c
[15:56:54] <alex_joni> better?
[15:59:48] <rayh> bricolou: Nice work on the machine.
[16:01:06] <alex_joni> rayh: now where were we?
[16:01:13] <alex_joni> or better said, you..
[16:02:22] <rayh> * rayh is on the phone
[16:02:51] <paul_c> * paul_c has been crunching some memory usage numbers
[16:03:04] <alex_joni> shm?
[16:03:09] <paul_c> yup
[16:03:15] <alex_joni> and?
[16:03:45] <paul_c> the amount of memory used is excessive
[16:03:54] <alex_joni> right...
[16:04:05] <alex_joni> and probably we might reduce it?
[16:04:21] <paul_c> s/probably/must/g
[16:04:31] <alex_joni> heh
[16:04:37] <alex_joni> ok.. which areas?
[16:05:11] <paul_c> for example - the tc queue uses 153720 bytes
[16:05:22] <alex_joni> right
[16:05:32] <alex_joni> I remember adding those manually
[16:06:18] <paul_c> that needs to be in kernel space, not shm
[16:06:42] <paul_c> In fact, much of what is in shm shouldn't be there.
[16:07:36] <paul_c> How much shared memory does emc2 use ?
[16:08:24] <alex_joni> hang on a mo
[16:10:23] <alex_joni> sizeof(emcmot_struct_t) (total shmem): 606692
[16:10:47] <alex_joni> out of which 440020 is emcmot_log_t
[16:11:02] <alex_joni> and 157100 is emcmot_debug_t
[16:11:36] <paul_c> ARRRGGG.... Those _t suffixes are getting on my tits.
[16:11:59] <alex_joni> ok.. strip them
[16:12:09] <alex_joni> emcmot_struct is 606692
[16:12:19] <alex_joni> log is 440k and debug is 157k
[16:12:34] <paul_c> so how much shm does rtapi & HAL use ?
[16:14:54] <alex_joni> I see a RTAI[malloc]: size 131072
[16:15:00] <alex_joni> but I guess that's RTAI stuff
[16:15:07] <alex_joni> still looking for rtapi and hal
[16:16:56] <alex_joni> hal shm is 65500
[16:17:52] <paul_c> and halscope ?
[16:18:00] <alex_joni> halscope?
[16:18:41] <alex_joni> scope_rt I guess
[16:18:43] <alex_joni> looking now
[16:19:25] <alex_joni> 65000
[16:21:14] <paul_c> 720K in total.
[16:21:25] <alex_joni> yeah
[16:21:39] <alex_joni> but if you count out 440k log and 157k debug
[16:21:44] <alex_joni> it's way less
[16:21:49] <paul_c> plus a page or two for rtapi
[16:22:36] <alex_joni> 597k for debug & log is pretty much
[16:25:31] <paul_c> now wtf... has JMK commented out axVscale for (assuming it is the same var as emc[1])
[16:27:38] <paul_c> The debug struct isn't going to drop in size until the TC_STRUCT is removed.
[16:28:51] <rayh> I'm back
[16:29:33] <alex_joni> hmmm
[16:31:46] <rayh> I like the estop on your machine bricolou.
[16:31:53] <james> hi
[16:32:04] <paul_c> got some preliminary code that reduces the tp stack to around 32K
[16:32:04] <james> james is now known as jacky^
[16:32:31] <alex_joni> paul_c: nice
[16:32:50] <alex_joni> does it make any difference in the comm stuff?
[16:34:58] <paul_c> If the data format was migrated up through to usr space, yes.
[16:35:45] <alex_joni> paul_c: that axVscale has been moved to a different place from what I can see
[16:35:51] <alex_joni> not sure where ;)
[16:36:03] <alex_joni> that #if 0 used to be #ifndef NEW_STRUCTS
[16:36:56] <alex_joni> I think it's double vel_scale; /* axis velocity scale factor */
[16:37:07] <alex_joni> inside the emcmot_joint
[16:37:29] <alex_joni> ahh right.. make that emcmot_joint_T *big grin*
[16:37:38] <paul_c> wth is it doing there ??? ?
[16:37:49] <alex_joni> it's one per each joint
[16:37:58] <paul_c> wrong.
[16:38:01] <alex_joni> instead of beeing defined once for all axes
[16:38:57] <alex_joni> no ideea why jmk did this, all I know of it is what I try to understand from reading the sources
[16:39:27] <paul_c> <rough calc> optimising the tc stack and moving out of shm would see a 96% increase in speed of reading the debug struct.
[16:41:11] <alex_joni> nice
[16:42:02] <alex_joni> how does .buildconf-emc2 sound?
[16:42:07] <paul_c> Not done any measurements, but there will be a significant improvement in the speed of the trajectory loop.
[16:42:11] <alex_joni> or maybe the plain old .config is better ?
[16:42:44] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is adding obj-$(CONFIG_FOO) support in the build process
[16:43:18] <paul_c> now why would you want to mess up the build system ?
[16:43:31] <alex_joni> I want to add some config rule
[16:43:35] <alex_joni> like make menuconfig
[16:43:49] <alex_joni> it would do 2 things
[16:44:08] <alex_joni> 1. let the user choose what he wants (stepper vs. servo), drivers, etc
[16:44:19] <alex_joni> it would choose stuff to get compiled
[16:44:36] <alex_joni> and it would produce a sane config for his situation (based on templates)
[16:45:24] <paul_c> so the configs would be auto-generated from the config stage ?
[16:46:25] <alex_joni> more like snipped together during the config stage
[16:46:44] <paul_c> over-writing any pre-existing configuration files.
[16:46:47] <alex_joni> say a user wants servo on a motenc card
[16:46:55] <alex_joni> over-writing a default config file
[16:47:19] <alex_joni> or maybe creating a new one
[16:47:24] <alex_joni> autogenerated.ini
[16:47:34] <alex_joni> with a message for the user to work from there
[16:48:12] <paul_c> One tool to compile the code, another to configure - Don't mix the two.
[16:48:32] <alex_joni> well.. it's not configuration per se
[16:48:40] <alex_joni> but selection of the stuff the user needs
[16:49:30] <paul_c> (didn't quite come out right)... One tool to .config & compile, another tool to configure the system & produce the ini
[16:49:56] <alex_joni> ok, I can see that
[16:50:15] <alex_joni> but the second tool (the configure) would need to go based from available modules
[16:50:27] <rayh> If 2 then I see a strong link between them.
[16:50:35] <SWPadnos> paul_c: some of the ideas that have been floated around have to do with "modularizing" the userspace code
[16:50:36] <rayh> No need to config stuff that aint there.
[16:50:53] <alex_joni> rayh: my point exactly
[16:50:55] <SWPadnos> so there would be more of a need to select the items to be compiled
[16:51:20] <paul_c> So the system configuration tool reads it's input from a .config
[16:51:25] <SWPadnos> (especially if there are multiple source files that provide the same "service", but for different hardware
[16:51:32] <rayh> I'd even extend that thought to the HAL modules.
[16:51:36] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:51:44] <alex_joni> nooo
[16:51:47] <alex_joni> ahhh
[16:51:48] <SWPadnos> yes!
[16:51:51] <alex_joni> sorry.. misread that one
[16:52:12] <rayh> probably mis typed or mis thought.
[16:52:14] <alex_joni> thought you wanted to say to use HAL to extend that
[16:52:23] <paul_c> To have the build system generate .ini based on what is compiled is lunacy.
[16:52:35] <alex_joni> not based on what is compiled
[16:52:39] <alex_joni> based on what the user says
[16:52:54] <alex_joni> you can have a config program that does the ini
[16:52:59] <alex_joni> but generates also the .config
[16:53:10] <alex_joni> for needed SW
[16:53:26] <SWPadnos> it can't build the full .ini - the build has no knowledge (and should have no knowledge) of the steps per unit, for example
[16:53:48] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I was thinking about a config utility
[16:53:52] <alex_joni> based on Kconfig
[16:54:00] <SWPadnos> yep - that could work
[16:54:14] <paul_c> Not all systems will have Qt
[16:54:14] <alex_joni> like the one we started 2 months ago
[16:54:29] <rayh> There would be several loops through the whole config process.
[16:54:33] <alex_joni> well.. menuconfig should run on all systems
[16:55:40] <alex_joni> anyways.. currently I am adding .config support
[16:55:42] <paul_c> So you are going to rely on the kernel's menuconfig system to be compatable across all systems ?
[16:55:44] <rayh> IMO aunt tillie's version will have qt.
[16:56:08] <alex_joni> and only for modules, and only for 2.6 systems
[16:56:23] <alex_joni> now.. for menuconfig, I'd do it the way RTAI did it
[16:56:31] <alex_joni> include it in emc2
[16:57:20] <alex_joni> and based on ./configure build menuconfig, gconfig, or qconfig
[16:58:30] <alex_joni> but the functionality is pretty much the same, so it shouldn't matter if a user does qconfig or menuconfig
[16:58:37] <alex_joni> but that's still away
[16:58:55] <paul_c> Oh woopie.... More code to support & fix when GTK or Qt changes.
[16:59:48] <alex_joni> well the alternative is worse
[17:00:06] <alex_joni> making ./configure figure out how to use menuconfig & such from the kernel source dir
[17:00:12] <alex_joni> or from rtai's source dir
[17:01:11] <paul_c> The way I see it, if a kernel module doesn't compile, it doesn't get included in the make system
[17:02:19] <alex_joni> hmm.. supporting only menuconfig might be pretty easy
[17:04:21] <rayh> I've got to run to town but as I said at devFest, I really favor a way of making EMC that allow complete choice of the parts to be made.
[17:05:56] <paul_c> Right - So how do I test my code within the emc2 framework ?
[17:06:16] <alex_joni> what did you touch?
[17:06:33] <alex_joni> tp, tc, ...?
[17:06:59] <paul_c> didn't touch tp & tc
[17:07:07] <alex_joni> ok..
[17:07:09] <paul_c> Replaced 'em both.
[17:07:15] <alex_joni> heh
[17:07:22] <alex_joni> do the same in emc2 ;)
[17:07:54] <paul_c> at the mo, could do.... But.
[17:08:22] <SWPadnos> argh. It's so hard to carry on an interesting emc related conversation with relatives (including small children) visiting
[17:08:37] <alex_joni> get them in here ;)
[17:08:40] <alex_joni> lol
[17:08:57] <SWPadnos> wouldn't *that* be fun :)
[17:09:22] <SWPadnos> (I looked at that and realized I should have said "while relatives ... are visiting"
[17:09:23] <SWPadnos> )
[17:09:44] <paul_c> Some of the real benefits would only be noticed once the data format has propogated up through to the usr space code.
[17:12:41] <alex_joni> paul_c: what would that involve?
[17:13:01] <paul_c> on my part ?
[17:13:26] <alex_joni> generally
[17:14:21] <paul_c> small changes in a multitude of places where ever a position struct is addressed
[17:14:49] <alex_joni> EmcPose ?
[17:15:09] <paul_c> one type, yes.
[17:15:21] <alex_joni> right
[17:15:34] <alex_joni> well.. if you feel me in on the necessary changes I might do them
[17:15:42] <alex_joni> fill
[17:15:45] <alex_joni> ;)
[17:16:28] <paul_c> thought you were looking at libnml & kbuild.
[17:17:32] <alex_joni> libnml ?
[17:17:48] <alex_joni> I am doing some kbuild stuff, but I'll finish soon ;)
[17:17:54] <alex_joni> or leave it aside
[17:18:38] <alex_joni> for now I think I'll add .config (written by hand)
[17:18:38] <alex_joni> and include it in the proper places
[17:18:47] <alex_joni> so in the future a way to generate .config has it easier
[17:19:25] <alex_joni> how does that sound?
[17:19:31] <paul_c> You going to try and commit a file called .config to CVS ?
[17:19:47] <alex_joni> won't work?
[17:20:06] <A-L-P-H-A> NO! it won't. First my ipod, and now this IEEE 1394a card won't work either!
[17:20:09] <A-L-P-H-A> stupid freak'n MS.
[17:20:11] <A-L-P-H-A> I blame MS.
[17:20:24] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: blame as much as you can
[17:20:39] <robin_sz> meep?
[17:20:55] <alex_joni> peemp
[17:21:15] <robin_sz> I was just readign the adverts for "CNC Workshop" in 2.5 weeks time
[17:21:24] <alex_joni> right
[17:21:32] <robin_sz> > Come and meet the names you see on the internet - Art Fenerty, Jon
[17:21:32] <robin_sz> > Elson, Ray Henry, Fred Smith, Ron Worth, and lots of others who
[17:21:32] <robin_sz> > really know their stuff -
[17:21:39] <paul_c> a .config is a temp file, and may well be filtered out by SF
[17:22:03] <alex_joni> well.. I'll try in the kbuild branch.. ok?
[17:22:10] <robin_sz> that should be fun ... do the event organisers provide the gum shields and the cut man?
[17:23:16] <paul_c> still don't think it is a good idea to commit it
[17:23:27] <alex_joni> how about default.config ?
[17:23:58] <paul_c> how about extending Makefile.inc ?
[17:24:07] <alex_joni> with those values?
[17:24:14] <alex_joni> I did extend Makefile.inc
[17:24:21] <alex_joni> but to include the file
[17:24:27] <alex_joni> not to have the files in there
[17:24:27] <alex_joni> ;)
[17:24:30] <alex_joni> but I guess that
[17:24:35] <alex_joni> that's a way too
[17:24:59] <alex_joni> only thing.. then it's harder to produce the file from a script/program
[17:26:20] <paul_c> Put markers around the various sections
[17:26:41] <alex_joni> markers?
[17:27:13] <paul_c> #### BEGIN CONFIG ####
[17:27:19] <paul_c> #### END CONFIG ####
[17:27:25] <alex_joni> and parse it?
[17:27:28] <alex_joni> ugly hack ;)
[17:27:42] <alex_joni> why don't you like default.config ?
[17:27:44] <paul_c> see grub/menu.list
[17:28:31] <alex_joni> * alex_joni doesn't like grub
[17:28:36] <alex_joni> I'm the lilo fan :)
[17:28:38] <alex_joni> anyways...
[17:29:26] <paul_c> having yet another autogenerated build file smacks of....
[17:30:04] <alex_joni> hmmm...
[17:30:39] <alex_joni> I see the value in having less separate files
[17:30:55] <paul_c> 'spose we could have a hal.config, an rtapi.config, libnml.config, emc2.config, and then a top level .config to decide which ones get included.
[17:31:15] <paul_c> and in hal/, .configs for each module
[17:31:21] <alex_joni> now that's way too much ;)
[17:31:30] <alex_joni> we don't have that much stuff
[17:31:39] <alex_joni> for now this only works for modules
[17:31:45] <alex_joni> 2.6 modules
[17:31:57] <alex_joni> I guess it could get extended
[17:32:08] <alex_joni> but scattered... not sure that would be ok
[17:32:58] <paul_c> Look at how the kernel build works - One single .config for everything.
[17:33:16] <Jymmm> I sorta like the way apache does it... httpd.conf - A single file for everything, then a user can override certain aspects with .htaccess files.
[17:33:33] <alex_joni> Jymmm: that's runtime
[17:33:39] <alex_joni> not compile options
[17:33:47] <Jymmm> alex_joni Ah, nm
[17:34:16] <alex_joni> paul_c: right, I agree that one .config is enough
[17:34:40] <paul_c> Don't let jmk's multitude of config/*.ini extend to the build system.
[17:34:47] <alex_joni> no way
[17:34:59] <alex_joni> that's why I was talking about default.config
[17:35:05] <alex_joni> just one, placed in src/
[17:35:29] <paul_c> as part of Makefile.inc
[17:35:41] <alex_joni> and btw, there's no multitude of *.ini ;)
[17:35:42] <Jymmm> What about a single .config with the ABILITY to have an inlcude. Like for when testing certain builds.
[17:35:44] <alex_joni> only *.hal
[17:36:05] <alex_joni> paul_c: I can do it as part of Makefile.inc, no problem
[17:36:15] <paul_c> emc2.ini requires one or more foo.hal
[17:36:17] <alex_joni> only thing is that it makes automating changes a bit harder
[17:36:43] <alex_joni> there's a multitude of *.hal I agree :P
[17:36:55] <alex_joni> btw.. just had a talk with ValarQ
[17:37:04] <alex_joni> he very much liked the HAL stuff ;)
[17:37:17] <alex_joni> one of the first users using it... besides developers
[17:37:31] <paul_c> Chatchai Neanudorn doesn't...
[17:37:49] <alex_joni> Chatchai Neanudorn doesn't like a few things
[17:37:57] <alex_joni> amongst those the motenc driver
[17:38:52] <alex_joni> I'm not aware that PID parameters (the number of them at least) have changed from emc1 to emc2
[17:39:06] <alex_joni> but I agree that he's frustrated.. not sure by what
[17:41:14] <paul_c> changing the subject slightly....
[17:41:22] <alex_joni> ok
[17:41:26] <alex_joni> back to tp stuff
[17:41:35] <alex_joni> I'll commit the config stuff to HEAD
[17:41:41] <paul_c> If "we" propogated these changes up through to usr space
[17:41:43] <alex_joni> part of Makefile.inc.in
[17:42:10] <paul_c> the need for posemath.c in kernel space would disappear.
[17:42:10] <alex_joni> I can then help you...
[17:42:20] <alex_joni> now that's a nice change ;)
[17:42:27] <alex_joni> using a branch?
[17:42:42] <alex_joni> probably till "we" finish it'll take a few days braking things
[17:44:16] <paul_c> first stage would be to rename a few of the variables
[17:45:07] <alex_joni> lemme guess...
[17:45:09] <alex_joni> stripping _t's ?
[17:45:13] <alex_joni> *grins*
[17:45:15] <Jymmm> Does emc have the ability to control ENAble (idle power down after x number of seconds) if I wire up a spare I/O pin for it?
[17:45:36] <paul_c> Jymmm: No.
[17:45:37] <alex_joni> idle power down after x seconds means what?
[17:46:13] <paul_c> alex_joni: more like carte_pos_fb & carte_pos_cmd (wth they are...)
[17:46:17] <Jymmm> alex_joni basic it means to shut off the current to the motors if no operation currently in effect.
[17:46:42] <Jymmm> paul_c ty
[17:46:42] <alex_joni> Jymmm: not that easy to decide that
[17:46:45] <alex_joni> paul_c: ok
[17:47:44] <paul_c> Jymmm: It wouldn't be too hard to add a counter to the stepper loop to provide an idle signal.
[17:48:04] <alex_joni> but then again.. who says it's idle?
[17:48:16] <alex_joni> it may be waiting for the operator to change the tool, or whatever
[17:48:19] <alex_joni> waiting on io
[17:48:21] <alex_joni> or smthg
[17:48:53] <alex_joni> not sure if that enable could cause troubles..
[17:48:54] <paul_c> you set a counter up that is reset each time there is a step or dir change.
[17:49:11] <alex_joni> depends on how fast the power supply comes back online
[17:49:14] <paul_c> If none are sensed for x seconds
[17:49:18] <alex_joni> not power supply
[17:49:21] <alex_joni> the drives
[17:49:22] <paul_c> you set an idle pin.
[17:55:24] <Jymmm> alex_joni the (xylotex) driver has a ENAble (per axis) that I can control from a SPST switch, but I was just thinking of making it idiot proof and left he controller have a little say it it as well instead of letting the motors idle at full current all day without realizing it.
[17:55:43] <alex_joni> Jymmm:nice thought
[17:55:49] <alex_joni> but.. again
[17:55:58] <alex_joni> I'm not sure you'll not run into troubles
[17:56:17] <alex_joni> if you have an long idle time, the drives will shutdown
[17:56:22] <alex_joni> then you have a move commanded
[17:56:32] <alex_joni> and the step signal comes..
[17:56:32] <Jymmm> how so? This would be after it hasn't rcvd a step signle in (lets say) 60 or 300 seconds.
[17:56:45] <alex_joni> say you had some moves
[17:56:50] <alex_joni> then you have 10 minutes pause
[17:57:00] <alex_joni> the drive shutsdown after 2 mins..
[17:57:11] <alex_joni> then.. (after 10 mins) you decide to move the machine
[17:57:24] <alex_joni> emc outputs a step signal´┐Ż
[17:57:28] <alex_joni> step signal
[17:57:33] <alex_joni> along with the enable signal
[17:57:52] <alex_joni> I'm simply not sure the drive will be active fast enough to notice that step
[17:58:01] <alex_joni> hope you get my point...
[17:58:29] <Jymmm> Yeah I do, it's like hitting the gas before putting in gear
[17:58:39] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[18:00:07] <alex_joni> right
[18:00:31] <alex_joni> it might not matter, but if you have an accurately homed machine it might
[18:02:45] <Jymmm> I'll ask and see wha the timing issue the chipset can deal with. MAYBE it'll be just be a EN and not a SLEEP function
[18:14:03] <james> i changed the value of LINEAR_UNITS in 1, also changed UNITS= 1 in axes sections to work in mm instead of in, but get an error running the program 3dchips.ngc: Error: linear move 11 out of range, i'm forgetting to edit some other variable ?
[18:14:30] <alex_joni> james: yes
[18:14:45] <james> james is now known as jacky^
[18:15:09] <alex_joni> there is min_limit and max_limit
[18:15:29] <jacky^> yes, ive seen
[18:15:39] <jacky^> should i change it ?
[18:15:56] <alex_joni> well. if your machine only travels 20mm then no
[18:16:06] <jacky^> :\
[18:16:09] <alex_joni> it used to be defined 20 inches
[18:16:15] <jacky^> 20 mm.. ghghhg LOL
[18:16:28] <jacky^> no, my machine travel about 20 cm
[18:16:35] <jacky^> maybe more
[18:16:39] <jacky^> ok :-)
[18:16:44] <alex_joni> ok.. then do 200 as min_limit
[18:16:47] <bricolou> see you again ++
[18:16:47] <jacky^> thanks a lot alex_joni
[18:16:56] <alex_joni> -200 as min_limit
[18:17:00] <alex_joni> 200 as max_limit
[18:17:14] <alex_joni> that way it shouldn't matter if you home anywhere
[18:17:28] <jacky^> ok, tnx for the tips
[18:17:41] <alex_joni> np
[18:21:48] <Jymmm> one of our parrots died yesterday =(
[18:22:07] <alex_joni> oh.. :(
[18:23:23] <Jymmm> She was exceptionally special too, never ever agressive in the slightest. just loved people.
[18:26:33] <alex_joni> did she talk?
[18:30:02] <Jymmm> a little bit, but gawd did she have a personality... I'd say "woof" to her and she'd start barking. I could carry her in my hand like I would grip a handle on a suitecase swinging my arm as one would usually do and she didn't care in the least
[18:30:27] <alex_joni> nice
[18:30:38] <robin_sz> Jymmm: well, I have good news for you ..
[18:30:58] <Jymmm> robin_sz whats that?
[18:31:01] <robin_sz> you can still do that
[18:31:23] <Jymmm> ?
[18:31:45] <robin_sz> carry her in your hand like the handle of a suitcase ...
[18:32:44] <Jymmm> The comment is a lil tacky for one. Two, no I can't. A necropsy is being performed as her death was so sudden we don't know the cause.
[18:32:45] <robin_sz> friend of min had a macaw ...
[18:33:24] <robin_sz> evil thing it was ... fell off his hand once and managed to cling on to his finger with its beak
[18:33:52] <Jymmm> bbl food
[18:34:54] <alex_joni> robin_sz: ever heard of CNC_MASTER ?
[18:34:59] <robin_sz> nope
[18:35:25] <alex_joni> www.jocomomola.de
[18:35:41] <robin_sz> yeah, found it
[18:37:24] <robin_sz> looks well advanced ...
[18:37:48] <alex_joni> well..looks
[18:37:51] <robin_sz> so its a linuxy, or other hard realtime pulse engine ...
[18:37:56] <alex_joni> but it's not very advanced
[18:37:57] <robin_sz> and a windows client
[18:38:05] <alex_joni> right
[18:38:16] <robin_sz> sounds good
[18:38:18] <alex_joni> http://www.jocomomola.de/CNC_Master/featurelist.html
[18:38:25] <alex_joni> no blending / circles yet
[18:38:31] <alex_joni> no more than 3 axes
[18:41:23] <robin_sz> well, just looking at what has been achieved so far by a guy on his own, its ompressive
[18:41:27] <robin_sz> impressive
[18:44:55] <alex_joni> looking at the sources
[18:45:16] <alex_joni> 1.4 MB
[18:45:21] <alex_joni> mostly autoconf & co
[18:45:28] <alex_joni> code is 120k
[18:47:43] <robin_sz> C++?
[18:48:02] <alex_joni> no c++
[18:48:10] <alex_joni> plain .c and .h
[18:48:25] <robin_sz> Nutzung moderner Technologien, wie XML und OOP
[18:48:28] <alex_joni> < 20 files
[18:48:36] <alex_joni> XML, OOP me ass
[18:48:42] <alex_joni> maybe on doze
[18:48:44] <alex_joni> in the GUI
[18:48:48] <alex_joni> lol
[18:48:50] <robin_sz> yeah
[18:49:02] <robin_sz> the UI on Doze is a good plan
[18:49:25] <alex_joni> the driver code is 29k
[18:49:28] <robin_sz> heh
[18:49:34] <alex_joni> that's the module that gets inserted
[18:49:42] <robin_sz> neat
[18:52:47] <robin_sz> id be interested to kow what its max pulse rate was
[18:53:12] <alex_joni> I don't see any velocity limit, or accel limits
[19:00:20] <alex_joni> pretty crude code overall
[19:02:09] <alex_joni> wouldn't say it's a lot of progress in the last 2 years.. but a lot more work than I did ;)
[19:10:58] <jacky^> bye
[19:22:21] <ValarQ> hello folks
[19:22:53] <alex_joni> hey ValarQ
[19:23:17] <ValarQ> i have some more of those interesting questions for you guys ;)
[19:23:33] <ValarQ> i'm trying to use mm instead of inches in emc2
[19:23:40] <alex_joni> shoot
[19:23:51] <ValarQ> but i can't get it to work everywhere
[19:24:03] <ValarQ> (some standard tkinterface)
[19:24:16] <alex_joni> tkemc
[19:24:24] <alex_joni> ValarQ: there are a few things for mm / inch
[19:24:28] <alex_joni> first the ini
[19:24:35] <alex_joni> change every little place from inch to mm
[19:25:11] <ValarQ> i can't find any place
[19:25:57] <alex_joni> well... where's 0.039... change it to 1
[19:26:06] <alex_joni> LINEAR_UNITS = 0.03937007874016
[19:26:13] <alex_joni> UNITS = 0.03937007874016
[19:26:15] <alex_joni> etc.
[19:26:33] <alex_joni> then.. there is RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE =G21
[19:26:53] <alex_joni> that you need to add in the [EMC] section
[19:26:58] <alex_joni> not sure why it's not there
[19:27:20] <ValarQ> not to 0.1 ?
[19:27:24] <alex_joni> nope
[19:27:26] <alex_joni> 1
[19:27:35] <ValarQ> ok
[19:28:52] <alex_joni> yo John
[19:28:55] <jmkasunich> hi alex
[19:30:56] <alex_joni> what's up?
[19:31:35] <alex_joni> I commited some stuff a while ago, but it seems that mailing to the commit list didn't get send
[19:31:37] <alex_joni> sent
[19:31:59] <ValarQ> alex_joni: it works, thanks :)
[19:32:11] <alex_joni> I got some (452, 'Space shortage, please try later'.. ) errors
[19:32:15] <alex_joni> ValarQ: no problem
[19:32:27] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: ValarQ is one of the emc2 users ;)
[19:33:33] <jmkasunich> dunno what is up with the commit liet
[19:34:01] <alex_joni> well.. anyways
[19:34:15] <alex_joni> I added $(CONFIG_FOO) support for the modules
[19:34:42] <alex_joni> in future it might be possible to have a make menuconfig (or gconfig, qconfig) to select what the user wants to build
[19:35:10] <alex_joni> or any other script
[19:35:15] <jmkasunich> OK (not sure I understnad that, but OK anyway ;-)
[19:35:35] <alex_joni> heh :)
[19:35:52] <alex_joni> well.. basicly there's a CONFIG_FOO define for every module
[19:36:07] <alex_joni> if that is set CONFIG_FOO=m that means a module will get compiled
[19:36:18] <alex_joni> if CONFIG_FOO=n then it won't get compiled
[19:37:04] <jmkasunich> and CONFIG_FOO=y is a mistake? (doesn't make sense to compile EMC modules into a kernel, does it?
[19:37:23] <alex_joni> right ;)
[19:37:35] <alex_joni> but you might compile rtapi into the kernel ;)
[19:37:56] <jmkasunich> not without some changes
[19:38:17] <alex_joni> well.. that's up to the config script
[19:38:27] <alex_joni> it can provide only m|n options
[19:38:35] <jmkasunich> ok
[19:39:59] <alex_joni> anyways.. got that mail on the dev list?
[19:40:00] <jmkasunich> just looked at the emc-commit admin pages... can't see anything wrong there.
[19:40:39] <jmkasunich> from the guy who says emc2 is full of bugs?
[19:40:58] <alex_joni> yeah :/
[19:41:26] <jmkasunich> well he's just about the first person to try servo under emc2, he shouldn't be too surprized
[19:41:43] <alex_joni> heh
[19:41:53] <alex_joni> I think others used motenc aswell
[19:42:00] <jmkasunich> need to look into specific issues
[19:43:02] <jmkasunich> in particular the shutdown sequencing... drive enable and zeroing DAC outputs on shutdown
[19:43:25] <alex_joni> right
[19:43:30] <alex_joni> http://mitglied.lycos.de/dieter096/ - a nice mill
[19:44:32] <jmkasunich> fscking lycos webpage... all I got was cookies and adds
[19:44:34] <jmkasunich> ads
[19:44:50] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: isn't that part of hal_motenc.c ?
[19:45:01] <jmkasunich> what, cookies and ads? ;-)
[19:45:21] <jmkasunich> shutdown stuff needs to be coordinated between modules
[19:45:29] <alex_joni> no.. the shutdown
[19:45:46] <jmkasunich> (although it probably would be a good idea to have the driver set DAC outputs to zero in cleanup_module
[19:46:05] <alex_joni> yup
[19:46:24] <alex_joni> that would not result in unwanted results on rmmod hal_motenc
[19:47:10] <jmkasunich> I need to talk to Pete V about a couple things on that driver
[19:47:31] <jmkasunich> I want to change encoder scaling (on all encoder drivers) from units/step to steps/unit
[19:47:51] <alex_joni> right
[19:47:51] <jmkasunich> that way the scale parameter will be something like 4000, not 0.00025
[19:48:02] <alex_joni> to make it like it was in emc1?
[19:48:09] <jmkasunich> and then it can be pulled from the ini file instead of being coded in the hal file
[19:48:20] <alex_joni> right
[19:48:36] <jmkasunich> core_servo.hal needs some work too
[19:49:05] <alex_joni> http://mitglied.lycos.de/dieter096/newpage0.html
[19:49:15] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: did you see the commits on iocontrol?
[19:49:29] <alex_joni> I moved the run of EMCIO a bit sooner in emc.run
[19:49:41] <alex_joni> so the pins exported by it were visible by hal scripts
[19:50:23] <jmkasunich> ok, saw that one
[19:50:43] <jmkasunich> last commit messages I have are from PeteV, adding motenc_io.hal and motenc_motion.hal
[19:51:04] <alex_joni> same here
[19:52:10] <jmkasunich> that's quite a mill
[19:52:35] <jmkasunich> but I hate Lycos
[19:52:39] <alex_joni> right
[19:53:00] <alex_joni> but the mill makes it worthwhile
[19:53:10] <alex_joni> nice toolchanging too
[19:53:29] <jmkasunich> it's very interesting they way he does Y and Z... most people stack Z on Y, he does it the other way around
[19:54:04] <alex_joni> yeah.. seen that
[19:56:22] <jmkasunich> looks more rigid that way... and now that I think about it, that's how the big old planer, planer mills, and vertical boring machines did it
[19:58:20] <jmkasunich> http://www.marcdatabase.com/~lemur/lemur.com/gallery-of-antiquarian-technology/machine-tools/ics-planers-1914/ics-planer-1-300.jpg
[19:59:46] <alex_joni> yeah
[19:59:58] <robin_sz> its a .. planer?
[20:00:15] <jmkasunich> yep
[20:00:28] <robin_sz> ideal for cuttng dovetail slideways :)
[20:00:56] <robin_sz> wheres the DRO?
[20:01:17] <alex_joni> it's using linear encoders
[20:01:21] <jmkasunich> I was observing that http://mitglied.lycos.de/dieter096/ stacks his Y on Z, like old planers, rather than stacking Z on Y like many newer machines
[20:01:22] <alex_joni> those .01 microns
[20:01:24] <alex_joni> ;)
[20:01:55] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: only thing I don't like.. he's using StepNC
[20:07:36] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: did you see http://mitglied.lycos.de/dieter096/newpage2.html ??
[20:08:15] <jmkasunich> nope... what is that? (I can't read the german)
[20:08:37] <alex_joni> it's a revolving toolchanger
[20:08:54] <jmkasunich> interesting
[20:09:05] <alex_joni> for 8 tools
[20:09:05] <robin_sz> wow ...
[20:09:16] <robin_sz> now .. that guy is a skilled machinist
[20:09:27] <robin_sz> and a designer ...
[20:09:35] <alex_joni> pretty much ;)
[20:09:45] <jmkasunich> that machine is up there with les's in terms of design and quality
[20:09:51] <alex_joni> right
[20:10:09] <robin_sz> Id say with skils like that, you could walk into any manufacutrer, be it cars, machine tools, whatever, and name your price
[20:10:24] <jmkasunich> any small manufacturer
[20:10:28] <alex_joni> http://mitglied.lycos.de/dieter096/photoalbum.html you can see it there
[20:10:49] <jmkasunich> large companies don't want skilled folks, they want trained monkeys (easily replacable monkeys)
[20:12:02] <robin_sz> wow, of course .. for his home made, slant bed CNC lathe, I should have guessed :)
[20:12:31] <alex_joni> hehe
[20:12:48] <robin_sz> jmkasunich: it depends at what level ... for grunts, yes, they just want fodder for the process, but even so, most big companies can spot real talent, and grasp it when they see it.
[20:14:44] <robin_sz> hes probably done in his workshop in his psare tiem, what takes a team of 20 or more at Mori-Seiki
[20:15:30] <jmkasunich> yep
[20:16:37] <jmkasunich> key factor - he's doing what he wants to do, at a pace he sets for himself
[20:17:05] <jmkasunich> not what the boss tells him, with a deadline that forces compromise
[20:17:08] <jmkasunich> hi les
[20:17:08] <robin_sz> I thought Les' efforts were pretty amazing, but this is another step beyond that even
[20:17:14] <robin_sz> ha, hey les ;)
[20:17:18] <les> ??
[20:17:21] <les> hey guys
[20:17:27] <jmkasunich> got a challenger for nicest homebuilt mill
[20:17:29] <alex_joni> hey les
[20:17:37] <les> oh yeah?
[20:17:41] <les> picture?
[20:17:50] <robin_sz> http://mitglied.lycos.de/dieter096/photoalbum.html
[20:18:14] <jmkasunich> that's the lathe
[20:18:14] <robin_sz> aufbau 6 <lh menu>
[20:18:26] <Phydbleep> Crap.. Babelfish barfs on the TC pages. :\
[20:18:57] <les> wow
[20:19:00] <les> very nice
[20:21:17] <alex_joni> anyways.. what's new les?
[20:21:26] <robin_sz> his use of brass for the toolholders was probably a mistake
[20:21:39] <Phydbleep> logger_aj: bookmark
[20:21:39] <Phydbleep> See http://193.226.12.129/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2005-06-04#T20-21-39
[20:21:45] <alex_joni> you mean the one that got damaged?
[20:22:00] <les> oh...I got the Dynomotion card!
[20:22:09] <alex_joni> it's because the tool got stuck in plastic, and the machine didn't stop
[20:22:14] <alex_joni> les: nice, any good?
[20:22:15] <alex_joni> :D
[20:22:22] <les> I will mess with it when back to work monday
[20:22:47] <les> very curious with what they did to the TP
[20:25:37] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: if you hate lycos that much, try http://www.cnc-projects.de.vu/
[20:26:52] <les> Well just stopped by for a minute ...off to ...um...drink beer and cook Filet Mignon!!!
[20:26:53] <alex_joni> heh .. guess what
[20:27:05] <alex_joni> know what this guy's doing for a living?
[20:27:15] <les> what?
[20:27:18] <jmkasunich> dunno
[20:27:35] <alex_joni> working in a company that designs / manufactures machine gears
[20:27:37] <alex_joni> ;)
[20:27:44] <alex_joni> programming / using CNC machines
[20:27:48] <les> I cheated. I built machines like mine for a living.
[20:27:56] <les> off and on
[20:28:06] <alex_joni> heh
[20:28:19] <les> Finally got to build one for ME!
[20:29:02] <alex_joni> that's even better ;)
[20:29:58] <alex_joni> I read a bit about lathes today
[20:30:23] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: what's still missing from emc to be useable with lathes?
[20:30:58] <jmkasunich> threading, obviously... and 2D tool offsetting
[20:31:09] <jmkasunich> lathe tools aren't usually round
[20:31:17] <alex_joni> how's threading done?
[20:31:46] <jmkasunich> you need to synchronize Z to the spindle (like change gears on a regular lathe)
[20:32:25] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: jmkasunich: Spindle speed is missing from what I've seen.
[20:32:38] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: right
[20:32:45] <jmkasunich> right - you need an encoder on the spindle
[20:32:55] <alex_joni> there is some limited spindle speed support, but not from G Code
[20:33:02] <Phydbleep> An angular readout would be nice as well.
[20:33:15] <alex_joni> you could hack up a hal module for spindle speed
[20:34:50] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes away for a while
[20:34:57] <alex_joni> probably I'll be back later
[20:35:00] <alex_joni> bye guys
[20:35:01] <Phydbleep> I'd settle for being able to swap the Z position readout for rotational speed or angle.
[20:35:03] <jmkasunich> but threading sync needs to be part of the motion controller
[20:35:37] <alex_joni> right
[20:36:02] <alex_joni> later
[20:39:47] <robin_sz> http://mitglied.lycos.de/dieter096/hpbimg/spinne%20001.JPG
[20:40:03] <robin_sz> what I want to know is .. where did he get the dxfs for that?
[20:56:57] <Imperator_> Hi all
[20:57:15] <Imperator_> here you can download the toolchanger plans from Dieter http://www.peters-cnc-ecke.de/Peter/Revolver/revolver.zip
[20:57:53] <Imperator_> but you must have a free Account at Peters-CNC-Ecke, or I can mail it
[20:59:19] <ValarQ> hello folks
[20:59:46] <ValarQ> how do i alter the working offsets (G54) in emc2?
[21:01:33] <Imperator_> have it not running at the moment, but it must be somewhere in the menu of teh GUI
[21:01:42] <Imperator_> the GUI
[21:07:21] <robin_sz> I'm still searching for the dxf's for that fly and spider ...
[21:07:24] <robin_sz> http://mitglied.lycos.de/dieter096/hpbimg/spinne%20001.JPG
[21:13:52] <jmkasunich> he probably made them himself (or traced from a similar puzzle... you may have a long and fruitless search
[21:36:26] <Imperator_> or ask him !!!
[21:36:46] <cradek> f
[21:45:29] <robin_sz> hmm
[21:45:39] <robin_sz> ive seen that before though, at shows and things
[21:45:46] <robin_sz> and a dinosaur
[21:46:04] <robin_sz> I suspect they are distributed as a fun piece by one of the laser makers
[22:09:58] <alex_joni> hello there
[22:10:06] <ValarQ> alex_joni: 'lo
[22:10:16] <alex_joni> ValarQ: hi
[22:10:31] <ValarQ> alex_joni: it's working :D
[22:10:39] <ValarQ> alex_joni: must be some sort of magic :)
[22:10:56] <alex_joni> right
[22:10:59] <alex_joni> or miracle ;)
[22:11:31] <alex_joni> ValarQ: but as a good point
[22:11:42] <alex_joni> you can buy jmkasunich a beer now as promised ;)
[22:11:42] <ValarQ> we are celebrating with porter right now ;)
[22:11:48] <alex_joni> porter?
[22:12:26] <ValarQ> some kind of beer
[22:12:30] <ValarQ> some good kind...
[22:12:43] <jmkasunich> dark beer ;-) mmmmmmmm
[22:12:55] <ValarQ> yeah :)
[22:13:06] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: ValarQ offered to spend a beer to the one who wrote the HAL
[22:13:10] <ValarQ> jmkasunich: if you come by you can have one :)
[22:13:19] <alex_joni> and one to the one that explained him how to use it ;)
[22:13:34] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just made that up ...
[22:13:35] <jmkasunich> where are you ?
[22:13:52] <alex_joni> he's a fellow citizen of sweden, iirc
[22:14:07] <jmkasunich> ahh... that's pretty far to go to get a beer
[22:14:22] <jmkasunich> e
[22:14:35] <alex_joni> but if you do.. it's not far from here .. so you might drop by for another one
[22:14:40] <alex_joni> or two ;)
[22:14:41] <ValarQ> jmkasunich: depends pretty much on your present location
[22:14:52] <jmkasunich> I'll keep that in mind
[22:14:52] <alex_joni> ValarQ: over the pond
[22:15:09] <ValarQ> alex_joni: russia? denmark?
[22:15:26] <alex_joni> nope, US (jmkasunich that is)
[22:15:29] <ValarQ> aieee!
[22:15:33] <alex_joni> I'm in romania ;)
[22:15:44] <ValarQ> oh, ok
[22:16:52] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: any new thoughts on TP ?
[22:22:13] <jmkasunich> not today
[22:22:43] <jmkasunich> (this afternoon I've been making a lid to keep the dog out of the trash can... very exciting project (not) ;-)
[22:22:53] <alex_joni> lol
[22:22:55] <alex_joni> nice..
[22:23:14] <alex_joni> I think I'll crash soon myself, maybe tomorrow I'll get more done ;)
[22:24:39] <alex_joni> err.. today ;)
[22:26:31] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[22:26:44] <alex_joni> soon ;)
[22:27:03] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hangs around for a while
[22:54:41] <ValarQ> perfect :)
[22:54:52] <alex_joni> ValarQ: what?
[22:55:01] <ValarQ> i wonder why emc2 keeps bugging me about some joint error
[22:55:21] <alex_joni> joint error?
[22:55:26] <alex_joni> what's the exact error?
[22:55:31] <alex_joni> following error?
[22:55:33] <ValarQ> good question...
[22:56:58] <ValarQ> Error: "joint 0 following error"
[22:57:11] <alex_joni> right
[22:57:25] <alex_joni> you might have to tune max_vel and max_accel
[22:57:41] <alex_joni> now that you changed from inch to mm
[22:57:52] <ValarQ> i have changed max_vel, could that be it?
[22:58:07] <alex_joni> yup
[22:58:19] <alex_joni> did you increase it?
[22:58:24] <ValarQ> yes
[22:58:42] <alex_joni> that might be it
[22:58:50] <alex_joni> ValarQ: running a fast computer?
[22:59:25] <ValarQ> x86
[22:59:36] <ValarQ> nothing fancy
[22:59:57] <ValarQ> pentium III coppermine
[23:00:43] <alex_joni> hmm.. you might get a faster speed than the default value
[23:00:48] <alex_joni> there is a param in the ini
[23:00:52] <alex_joni> called base_period
[23:01:02] <alex_joni> it's ending in 50 now
[23:01:09] <alex_joni> try decreasing it a bit
[23:01:21] <alex_joni> but if you decrease it too much, it will lock your system
[23:01:31] <alex_joni> so you'll know when it's too much ;)
[23:01:37] <ValarQ> heh
[23:02:15] <ValarQ> * ValarQ will truly and surely destroy his system this time
[23:02:47] <alex_joni> nah..
[23:02:54] <alex_joni> it'll only lock it solid
[23:03:08] <alex_joni> but if you push reset it'll work again.. hopefully *g*
[23:09:24] <ValarQ> that was to much... :(
[23:09:34] <alex_joni> how much?
[23:11:23] <ValarQ> enough to lock the system
[23:11:29] <ValarQ> * ValarQ is trying again
[23:11:41] <alex_joni> try 40, not much lower
[23:13:02] <ValarQ> i tried 20, the machine survived but i got the same error
[23:13:15] <ValarQ> 15 seems to work thought
[23:13:33] <alex_joni> 15 ???
[23:13:38] <alex_joni> that's pretty low
[23:13:54] <alex_joni> ok.. if you still get ferrors, you might want to decrease either max_val
[23:13:54] <ValarQ> BASE_PERIOD = 0.000015
[23:13:56] <alex_joni> vel
[23:14:02] <alex_joni> or max_accel
[23:14:31] <anonimasu> morning everyone
[23:14:43] <robin_sz> I've always wondered why that cant be:
[23:14:53] <alex_joni> yo an0n
[23:14:59] <anonimasu> or well morning/night :)
[23:15:00] <robin_sz> BASE_PERIOD 15 ; in uS
[23:15:04] <anonimasu> what's up?
[23:15:13] <alex_joni> morning ;)
[23:15:23] <alex_joni> robin_sz: why not?
[23:15:33] <alex_joni> ahh ;) heh
[23:15:38] <alex_joni> that would make it too easy
[23:15:44] <robin_sz> quite :)
[23:15:45] <alex_joni> or 15000 in nsecs
[23:15:45] <ValarQ> heres the nightshift :)
[23:15:53] <alex_joni> as that's used in the module anyway
[23:15:54] <ValarQ> * ValarQ is soon going to bed
[23:16:03] <alex_joni> [02:14] * ValarQ is soon going to bed
[23:16:09] <robin_sz> much of that could be self-configuring
[23:16:20] <robin_sz> BASE_PERIOD = auto
[23:16:38] <robin_sz> let it run a little test and figure out a value for itself ...
[23:18:02] <alex_joni> you need a button
[23:18:39] <alex_joni> the system tests, and when it locks you need to push that button
[23:18:39] <alex_joni> :)
[23:18:39] <alex_joni> it's called the reset button :P
[23:20:02] <robin_sz> a black one?
[23:20:02] <robin_sz> ona a balck panel?
[23:20:07] <robin_sz> ahh :)
[23:20:22] <robin_sz> I have one of those, but its worn out ...
[23:20:27] <robin_sz> I used to run Win95
[23:21:54] <alex_joni> heh
[23:23:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[23:23:18] <alex_joni> night guys
[23:23:22] <robin_sz> night