#emc | Logs for 2005-05-03

[00:22:14] <Phydbleep> Les_away: Is paul_c still there?
[00:28:07] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has checked the parts stack and found 1 P-II board (DTK PC100), I Dual P-II board (Gateway? PC100) and a Compaq PW6000 (P-II 300, Dual box, 1 cpu/riser, 128 meg ECC) that needs a drive.
[00:30:15] <Phydbleep> The Compaq is a beast and has a heavy case that should survive a cleanish shop enviroment.
[00:31:07] <Phydbleep> Oh.. And the RAMBUS P-III whatever board that I dont have ram to test.
[00:44:25] <Phydbleep> Hola. :)
[00:44:31] <jmkasunich> hi
[00:44:41] <jmkasunich> seen alex_joni lately?
[00:45:18] <Phydbleep> I wish.. Blew out my back trying not to drop sack-crete on the dog. :\
[00:46:17] <Phydbleep> He was here a few hours ago.
[00:46:29] <jmkasunich> aren't dogs fun... always running around like crazy people, getting underfoot, etc
[00:46:41] <Phydbleep> ~4.5 to be more precise.
[00:47:01] <jmkasunich> late in his neck of the woods
[00:47:08] <jmkasunich> I'll have to resort to email I guess
[00:47:13] <Phydbleep> Frikken, Fur-covered, Four-Legged, Roller-Skate wanna-be's.. :)
[01:23:44] <Les_away> hi
[01:27:50] <SWPadnos> hiya, jmkasunich
[01:28:08] <SWPadnos> (I guess I should look at this screen more often :) )
[01:28:13] <Phydbleep> Les_away: Is paul_c still there?
[01:28:49] <Les_away> yup
[01:29:01] <Phydbleep> Did he see the hardware list?
[01:29:27] <Les_away> what h/w list ?
[01:29:43] <SWPadnos> posted at time 20:28 by Phydbleep
[01:29:51] <jmkasunich> hi steve
[01:29:56] <SWPadnos> hi john
[01:30:16] <jmkasunich> is Paul there as in
[01:30:21] <SWPadnos> Are you (or someone) planning on committing the Pico-systems drivers?
[01:30:28] <jmkasunich> "can I ask him something"?
[01:30:30] <Phydbleep> 1 P-II board (DTK PC100), 1 Dual P-II board (Gateway? PC100) and a Compaq PW6000 (P-II 300, Dual box, 1 cpu/riser, 128 meg ECC) that needs a drive and a P-III/rambus board I cant test due to a lack of ram.
[01:30:45] <Les_away> Les_away is now known as paul_c
[01:30:50] <jmkasunich> hi paul
[01:30:58] <jmkasunich> starting to look at the lathefork merge
[01:31:02] <paul_c> Yo John.
[01:31:11] <jmkasunich> got the cvs book out...
[01:31:22] <paul_c> <gulp>
[01:31:24] <jmkasunich> did you happen to tag the point immediately before you started the lathe fork
[01:31:43] <jmkasunich> (doesn't look that way...)
[01:31:43] <paul_c> the branch point _is_ the tag
[01:32:06] <jmkasunich> ok.....
[01:32:17] <jmkasunich> you have cvsbook handy?
[01:32:22] <paul_c> nope
[01:32:42] <SWPadnos> I do - are you looking for a second opinion? :)
[01:33:23] <jmkasunich> theres a section in there where they recommend making a tag somethign like "root-of-something", and then the actual branch is another tag called "something-branch" or similar conventions
[01:33:27] <paul_c> If I were doing a "merge", it would be just in the interp directory.
[01:34:04] <jmkasunich> there are also changes in the calling code (emctask mostly)
[01:34:39] <paul_c> Yes... There would be some minor changes to reflect the C++ class change
[01:34:43] <jmkasunich> another compilication is that Fred added custom M codes to the head during fest, and I don't want to lose that during the merge
[01:34:52] <paul_c> (or changes to a C++ class)
[01:35:22] <paul_c> The custom M codes *should* be in the Lathe_fork interp
[01:35:28] <jmkasunich> so I'm reading up and trying to get a grip on everythinb before I do anything
[01:35:52] <jmkasunich> some preliminary grepping doesn't look that way, but I could be wrong
[01:36:08] <jmkasunich> cant grep much in the interp directiry because of the breakup into multiple files
[01:36:27] <jmkasunich> but there are custom Mcode changes in head that are _not_ in lathefork
[01:36:30] <paul_c> If the code isn't there, it would be a trivial exercise to add it.
[01:36:56] <paul_c> OK... Two choices....
[01:37:03] <jmkasunich> trivial once I extract it
[01:37:11] <paul_c> a) leave the merge until I get home, or
[01:37:31] <paul_c> c) merge, and add the M code changes in at a later date.
[01:38:02] <jmkasunich> I don't like a - I've only been at it an hour or so, I'm not gonna give up so quickly
[01:38:28] <Phydbleep> And 'b' would be?? Have a beer and decide in a bit?
[01:38:30] <paul_c> p.76
[01:38:54] <jmkasunich> of cvsbook?
[01:39:26] <paul_c> b) would be do some diffs between pre-fest & post-fest, generate a patch, and apply to lathe_fork.
[01:39:48] <jmkasunich> wow... I was thinking along the same lines
[01:39:48] <Phydbleep> Then merge it back in?
[01:39:50] <jmkasunich> that's scary
[01:39:51] <paul_c> or cut'n'paste
[01:42:15] <jmkasunich> that's why I was wondering if the root of the branch was tagged
[01:42:27] <jmkasunich> fred's changes aren't the only ones made to head since the branch
[01:42:33] <paul_c> as for Jon's ppmc driver, I'm going to have to hook up a floppy drive
[01:42:47] <rayh> Hi guys.
[01:42:58] <SWPadnos> I think there are two drivers at this point - the BDI one, and the HAL one
[01:43:00] <paul_c> and mail the altered files to someone with www/cvs access
[01:43:05] <jmkasunich> I'm planning to dive back into that once this merge is done
[01:43:32] <jmkasunich> my plan in a nutshell:
[01:43:37] <jmkasunich> 1) merge the lathefork stuff
[01:43:53] <jmkasunich> 2) make a branch for the 2.6 build system work
[01:44:03] <jmkasunich> 3) work on drivers on a 2.4 system
[01:44:16] <jmkasunich> alex has indicated that he'll be able to work on the 2.6 stuff
[01:44:56] <jmkasunich> I've already got the 2.6 compile farm slot running, and all slots are attempting to compile the bdi-4 branch (only the 4.20 slot succeeds of course)
[01:45:37] <jmkasunich> once we have a branch for the 2.6 work, and all slots are attempting to compile it, we have an environment that supports the build system work
[01:46:09] <SWPadnos> Is there a reason that the USC HAL driver can't be merged earlier?
[01:46:45] <jmkasunich> not really I guess... but it isn't finished yet
[01:47:02] <jmkasunich> I'm hoping the lathefork merge takes only a few days
[01:47:19] <jmkasunich> creating the 2.6 branch and adding it to the compile farm is a matter of an hour or so
[01:47:29] <jmkasunich> then I can focus on drivers
[01:47:30] <SWPadnos> OK - I was hoping to play with it a little, but that'll have to wait for 2.6 anyway
[01:47:52] <paul_c> damit... I just wish I could get one of my computers hooked up to Les' dsl modem
[01:48:00] <Phydbleep> When will emc2 compile/run on a 2.6 system?
[01:48:05] <SWPadnos> just take out the fixed IP stuff ;)
[01:48:24] <jmkasunich> Phydbleep: when we fix the build system to do that
[01:48:25] <SWPadnos> Phydbleep: "When It's Done"
[01:48:28] <jmkasunich> may be several weeks
[01:48:39] <paul_c> what's the doze equiv to ifconfig ?
[01:48:50] <SWPadnos> which windows
[01:48:54] <Phydbleep> paul_c: Yeah, Set it for DHCP nad it should grab an IP from the router/modem.
[01:48:55] <jmkasunich> depends on the doze
[01:49:00] <jmkasunich> winifcfg sometimes
[01:49:08] <Phydbleep> winipcfg
[01:49:09] <SWPadnos> winipcfg
[01:49:17] <SWPadnos> or ipconfig for Win2k
[01:49:31] <jmkasunich> if, ip, what's one letter
[01:49:34] <Phydbleep> for XP it's in the net connect properties.
[01:49:42] <SWPadnos> or are you looking for configuration?
[01:49:54] <SWPadnos> (as opposed to info)
[01:50:08] <Phydbleep> He needs to swap to dhcp from a static ip.
[01:50:29] <SWPadnos> nope - he was running Linux at fest, so this is a different question
[01:50:44] <SWPadnos> (but maybe the same answer)
[01:50:57] <jmkasunich> getting info from the win box to setup the linux one maybe?
[01:51:05] <SWPadnos> plausible
[01:51:13] <Phydbleep> Should work the same for 90% of the US cable/adsl links.
[01:51:29] <SWPadnos> depends on whether it's PPPoE or just DHCP
[01:51:45] <jmkasunich> my dsl need(ed) pppoe
[01:52:00] <Phydbleep> jmkasunich: Ick! :P
[01:52:09] <jmkasunich> (needed because I'm running a little black box router that does the pppoe now, so I just use dhcp)
[01:52:37] <SWPadnos> yeah - a little router is often the easiest way, plus you get sharing
[01:53:00] <jmkasunich> the isp provides a doze pppoe client that handles authentication and such... easier for their windoze users
[01:53:08] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a Athlon-900 for a router/dhcp server. :)
[01:53:22] <SWPadnos> hoe are your electric bills? :)
[01:53:25] <SWPadnos> how
[01:54:05] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich now has 5 200MHz pentinums running 24/7, plus the dsl modem and router
[01:54:09] <Phydbleep> Astronomical with the other 5 boxes that run all the time. :)
[01:54:19] <jmkasunich> that doesn't count my actial development boxes which are only on when in use
[01:54:34] <SWPadnos> heh - I'm bad enough off with only 2 machines on all the time - I'll really be scerwed when my server gets switched on
[01:54:57] <paul_c> well.... If I need to set up pppoe in order to use the dsl modem.....
[01:55:05] <paul_c> I'm buggered.
[01:55:16] <SWPadnos> no - just doenload ... oh :)
[01:55:18] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has been using hardware for heaters all winter.
[01:55:19] <SWPadnos> download
[01:55:37] <jmkasunich> does les know what he has there?
[01:56:18] <Phydbleep> Looks like Comcast.. That should be dhcp.
[01:56:22] <jmkasunich> les needs more computers anyway... just run down to the corner computer store and get a router... you know, the corner computer store in Tiger?
[01:56:24] <paul_c> It's just a modem with an XP box to connect to.
[01:56:57] <paul_c> jmkasunich: Why not go to the Tiger branch of CompUSA ?
[01:57:18] <jmkasunich> that's the one I was referring to
[01:57:42] <jmkasunich> at the corner of Main Street and Fat Chance Ave.
[01:58:07] <paul_c> * paul_c looks out of the window to see if downtown Tiger is still open....
[01:58:53] <paul_c> All the lights are out in Tiger's shopping Mall...
[01:59:06] <jmkasunich> sidewalks all rolled up?
[01:59:22] <paul_c> for tonight, yes.
[01:59:41] <SWPadnos> is the XP box capable of doing connection sharing?
[01:59:44] <paul_c> even the red light area has closed early.
[01:59:56] <SWPadnos> those were brake lights
[02:00:08] <paul_c> dang.
[02:00:47] <paul_c> I think Les has just the one nic in this box, so no chance of doing NAT
[02:01:05] <SWPadnos> OK - pppoe support is included in kernel 2.6, so you might not be totally screwed
[02:01:19] <SWPadnos> but then again, you could use it as an excuse for a beer and some sleep :)
[02:01:37] <jmkasunich> first question, is the ISP running PPPOE or just DHCP?
[02:01:47] <paul_c> nah - I'll just mail the files to you for comitting.
[02:01:53] <SWPadnos> OK by me.
[02:02:07] <SWPadnos> but then, how can you get email and not have CVS access?
[02:02:25] <jmkasunich> floppynet from Linux box to XP box, mail with Les's account
[02:02:26] <paul_c> jmkasunich: I have no idea what the ISP setup is...
[02:02:38] <SWPadnos> that's so '90s
[02:03:03] <paul_c> SWPadnos: It's still 50 years ahead of the rest of Tiger.
[02:03:14] <SWPadnos> accepted as fact
[02:03:21] <jmkasunich> mail sounds easier...
[02:03:52] <paul_c> heck - Tiger opened up their first drive in movie theater last year....
[02:03:52] <SWPadnos> just use WinCVS
[02:03:59] <SWPadnos> they have cars?
[02:04:16] <SWPadnos> I think our last drive-in closed last year
[02:04:20] <paul_c> Flintstone types, yes.
[02:04:43] <SWPadnos> gives new meaning to "foot-pounds"
[02:05:14] <jmkasunich> speaking of mail... the dumpster spat up some 3 port SCSI cables with terminators on one end. You need? I could snail-mail to les's place
[02:06:19] <paul_c> how long would the post take ?
[02:06:36] <jmkasunich> priority mail is usually 2 days
[02:06:43] <jmkasunich> how much longer are you there?
[02:07:01] <paul_c> probably three or four days....
[02:07:30] <paul_c> Les has some meetings lined up with a local company.
[02:09:58] <paul_c> Gah..... Looks like cia is down
[02:10:19] <jmkasunich> NEFS
[02:11:24] <paul_c> poxy server error
[02:13:06] <SWPadnos> I get nothing here (FireFox on Linux)
[02:13:13] <paul_c> let's see if I can get sneakernet set up....
[02:16:30] <SWPadnos> OK - time to go. See you all later
[02:16:40] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[02:57:36] <jmkasunich> paul_c: still there?
[02:58:27] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna be calling it a night soon.. if you want that cable, speak now, and I'll mail it tomorrow
[02:58:54] <jmkasunich> (speak a mailing address)
[03:01:50] <paul_c> just packing up here...
[03:20:42] <paul_c> paul_c is now known as les_away
[03:46:08] <Jymmm> sneakernet?
[04:17:17] <asdfqwega> Jymmm: Look it up in the jargon file.
[04:17:54] <Jymmm> in the wha?!
[04:37:45] <asdfqwega> ?!
[04:38:20] <asdfqwega> You claim to be a programmer, and you've never read the jargon file?
[04:38:31] <Jymmm> your words, not mine.
[04:38:44] <nevyn> hackers dictionary
[04:38:48] <nevyn> or jargon file
[04:38:48] <asdfqwega> Hm...I thought you said you were
[04:38:53] <nevyn> it was published as a book.
[04:39:02] <nevyn> the best stuff is the appendix tho.
[04:39:09] <nevyn> The story of mel.
[04:39:17] <nevyn> Tv typewriter.
[04:39:33] <asdfqwega> I must have an old copy...I don't remember those
[04:39:46] <nevyn> and the magic, more magic switch
[04:39:58] <asdfqwega> THAT, I remember :)
[04:40:09] <nevyn> giyf
[04:40:16] <nevyn> the story of mel particularly is good.
[04:40:21] <Jymmm> is not
[04:40:32] <Jymmm> is not (giyf that is)
[04:40:48] <Jymmm> nfc who mel is
[04:40:56] <nevyn> he's a real programmer.
[04:41:11] <Jymmm> as opposed toa lip syncing one?
[04:41:24] <Jymmm> lip, not lisp =)
[04:42:33] <asdfqwega> Well, I'm about due to re-read the jargon file - it's been about ten years or so since I last did, and I see they've added to it - I just had to look up LART XD
[04:42:54] <nevyn> http://www.isri.unlv.edu/~slumos/jargon/Table_Of_Contents.html
[04:43:18] <nevyn> as in real programmers don't eat quiche
[04:45:35] <nevyn> Back in the good old days-- the "Golden Era" of computers-- it was easy to separate the men from the boys (sometimes called "Real Men" and "Quiche Eaters" in the literature)
[06:12:26] <Phydbleep> Hey, Did somebody here want dimensional specs for a 5-C collet?
[06:12:52] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A I think
[06:13:33] <Jymmm> Phydbleep But I'm not sure if it was a 5-C collect or another one
[06:13:46] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep sends a wheelie-bin chasing A-L-P-H-A.
[06:13:56] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Wake up! :)
[06:14:26] <Jymmm> Phydbleep I do know that whatever A-L-P-H-A was looking for, he found.
[06:14:52] <Jymmm> but he'd probably appreciated any drawings and such. He wanted the angle of soemthing.
[06:15:17] <Phydbleep> http://www.lathe.com/images/5-c.gif
[06:16:36] <Phydbleep> There's a 4-C too.
[06:16:42] <Phydbleep> http://www.lathe.com/images/4-c.gif
[06:17:40] <A-L-P-H-A> ?
[06:17:59] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: You wanted 5-C collet specs?
[06:18:34] <A-L-P-H-A> nah... I wanted DA-300 specs. but I got them, and don't need them... I'm just gonna buy a ER-11 collet system.
[06:19:28] <Jymmm> Phydbleep the gratitude!
[06:19:39] <Phydbleep> Ah.. OK.. Well bookmark http://www.lathe.com/images anyway. :)
[06:22:12] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has to go pick up a PowerCraft (Logan) 9" lathe Thursday..
[06:22:35] <Phydbleep> WTF am I going to put it?
[06:29:26] <Jymmm> Phydbleep next to your mill
[06:29:32] <Jymmm> in the dump
[06:29:36] <Jymmm> rusting away
[06:35:57] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, thanks.
[06:51:28] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm looking for a nntp filtering program, based on headers. Not, subject, or poster, or body, or length. I want to filter from the header. Anyone know of a news reader program for win32?
[06:57:45] <Jymmm> filter what specifically?
[06:59:34] <Jymmm> * Jymmm pokes A-L-P-H-A
[07:00:43] <Jymmm> text? binary?
[07:07:13] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: I don't have a mill, but I'd be tempted to trade my South-Bend for one now that this lathe has turned up.
[07:07:20] <alex_joni> morning guys
[07:07:45] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: Greetings. :)
[07:07:59] <alex_joni> hey Fido ;)
[07:09:25] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: Somebody was looking for you earlier, but said he'd email.
[07:09:34] <alex_joni> ok
[07:09:43] <alex_joni> morning an0n
[07:10:01] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: anyone familiar?
[07:12:08] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: It was jmk.
[07:12:35] <alex_joni> ahh.. ok
[07:13:32] <Jymmm> alex_joni Yeah, they said they were from the free clinic with some test results?
[07:13:50] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I forwarded it to you
[07:13:56] <Jymmm> alex_joni asked if you allergic to antibiotics
[07:14:29] <Jymmm> alex_joni that's right, be in denial
[07:16:53] <Phydbleep> Hmmm.. That means I should check because i got the sheep from Jymmm...
[07:17:23] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... Same to ewe buddy. :)
[07:17:37] <Jymmm> lol
[07:17:42] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, I want to get binaries, but alt.binaries.warez.autocad has a shit load of spam.
[07:18:50] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep always wondered where they got all the pink bits for spam...
[07:19:11] <A-L-P-H-A> 100K messages, 99% spam.
[07:19:21] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A http://www.newsbin.com/
[07:19:31] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Very nice program.
[07:20:26] <Phydbleep> I mean what is it? S-urplus P-orn A-nd M-ore? Thats the only place I've ever seen that color occur in nature..
[07:21:24] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, used to use that...
[07:21:34] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm looking for a way to filter via the IP in the header.
[07:21:40] <A-L-P-H-A> or originating server.
[07:25:19] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A I think it can filter on headers
[07:29:56] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A I've filtered on posters before, yeah.
[07:31:32] <anonimasu> morning
[07:32:09] <alex_joni> what's up?
[07:33:19] <anonimasu> working
[07:33:32] <alex_joni> same here...
[07:33:37] <anonimasu> re-doing the GPS interface for the machine..
[07:33:42] <alex_joni> although I don't have any urge for that :D
[07:33:55] <A-L-P-H-A> no, not filtering posters... filtering based on ip from the header.
[07:34:05] <A-L-P-H-A> there's this creep that just loves to send out crap loads of spam.
[07:34:06] <anonimasu> :)
[07:35:52] <anonimasu> alex_joni: What's up with you?=
[07:35:57] <anonimasu> alex_joni: doing anything interesting?
[07:36:03] <alex_joni> some webdesign
[07:36:10] <alex_joni> don't feel like nothing else ;)
[07:36:58] <anonimasu> ok
[07:37:04] <A-L-P-H-A> A-L-P-H-A, wanna write some gcode for me?
[07:37:12] <Jymmm> anonimasu gps?
[07:37:20] <anonimasu> yeah
[07:37:26] <Jymmm> for what?
[07:37:26] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, wanna write some gcode for me?
[07:37:47] <alex_joni> I'm not really good at gcode ;)
[07:37:55] <alex_joni> and I don't feel like writing either :P
[07:38:06] <A-L-P-H-A> bah, maybe I'll just throw it into mastercam, and see what it does.
[07:38:18] <asdfqwega> G-code for what?
[07:38:25] <A-L-P-H-A> a plate.
[07:38:29] <Jymmm> anonimasu gps for what?
[07:38:43] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega has been freelancing writing g-code
[07:38:46] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll post it somewhere.
[07:38:49] <anonimasu> Jymmm: a machine at work..
[07:38:59] <Jymmm> anonimasu details man, details!
[07:39:26] <anonimasu> Jymmm: lol, its for telling customers where they've been with it ,so they get a printout of where the machine's been running..
[07:39:42] <Jymmm> anonimasu What machine?
[07:39:46] <alex_joni> an0n: making probability maps of future woods?
[07:39:51] <anonimasu> yeah
[07:39:53] <alex_joni> lol
[07:40:04] <alex_joni> Jymmm: tree planting machine
[07:40:13] <asdfqwega> "Hello, is your mill running? Well, you better go out and catch it!"
[07:40:14] <Jymmm> seriously?
[07:40:15] <anonimasu> or well, so the workers planting the tree's knows where to plant..
[07:40:20] <anonimasu> yeah
[07:40:32] <alex_joni> asdfqwega: lol
[07:40:40] <Jymmm> anonimasu and your writing code to do this?
[07:40:43] <anonimasu> I've got a seed planting machine prototype sitting on my desk.. also
[07:40:54] <anonimasu> yeah, although I am just interfacing the gps program..
[07:41:05] <Jymmm> anonimasu Why? just download
[07:41:11] <anonimasu> I started writing my own but using .SID files costs loads of money...
[07:41:23] <anonimasu> Jymmm: dosent really meet all my needs..
[07:41:33] <Jymmm> anonimasu APRS ?!
[07:42:00] <anonimasu> no
[07:42:12] <anonimasu> gps > map > printout
[07:42:20] <Jymmm> lame
[07:42:44] <Jymmm> automate the machien to plant trees w/o operator
[07:42:52] <alex_joni> an0n: what do you write your code in?
[07:42:59] <anonimasu> vc++ .net
[07:43:06] <alex_joni> care for some code?
[07:43:16] <Jymmm> anonimasu http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs.html
[07:43:21] <Jymmm> or aprs.org
[07:43:23] <anonimasu> what?
[07:43:26] <A-L-P-H-A> asdfqwega, http://www.lloydleung.com/gallery/random/ or http://www.lloydleung.com/gallery/random/distributor%20cover-1-Model.png
[07:43:37] <alex_joni> some friends of mine did some GPS navigation
[07:43:58] <A-L-P-H-A> asdfqwega, :/ dunno what's happening with my dcc, should just work.
[07:44:05] <Jymmm> anonimasu http://findu.com/
[07:44:53] <A-L-P-H-A> asdfqwega, it's all in mm.
[07:45:04] <anonimasu> Jymmm: positioning isnt interesting in that way, it's to help the people running the machines get paid
[07:45:34] <Jymmm> anonimasu : charge 100X as much and tell em no operator required!
[07:45:41] <anonimasu> Jymmm: impossible..
[07:46:13] <anonimasu> but I'd love to ;)
[07:46:21] <Jymmm> anonimasu nothing is impossible
[07:46:25] <anonimasu> the trouble is that there's trees in the forest.
[07:46:35] <anonimasu> ^_^
[07:46:41] <Jymmm> anonimasu what, you never heard of sensors?
[07:46:41] <alex_joni> lol
[07:46:58] <alex_joni> an0n: get a bigger machine
[07:47:05] <alex_joni> then you'll not mind the trees
[07:47:11] <alex_joni> and.. you can always plant new ones
[07:47:16] <alex_joni> ROFL
[07:48:02] <anonimasu> lol
[07:48:19] <anonimasu> the machines just weigh 12-13ton's..
[07:49:00] <Jymmm> anonimasu So, what's another ton for the robotics?!
[07:49:22] <anonimasu> nothing really
[07:49:35] <alex_joni> * alex_joni packs Jymmm in tin-foil, and hands the resulting robotics to an0n
[07:49:39] <Phydbleep> Teach it to pluck them out of the ground in front and replant them behind?
[07:50:04] <alex_joni> an0n: seen those 6-legs stepping type of machines?
[07:50:10] <alex_joni> those are neat
[07:50:20] <alex_joni> or was it 8 legs?
[07:50:25] <anonimasu> alex_joni: never really
[07:50:27] <Phydbleep> Yeah, The logging units.
[07:50:50] <alex_joni> the one I've seen was for cutting trees
[07:51:10] <anonimasu> got a image?
[07:51:16] <alex_joni> looking now
[07:51:39] <Phydbleep> 6 legs, 2 arms, stripper saws, cutoff saws, whizz, whir, stack of logs. :)
[07:52:11] <Phydbleep> google logging hexapod
[07:57:34] <alex_joni> don't seem to find it
[07:57:59] <Phydbleep> http://www.plustech.fi/Walking1.html
[07:58:04] <Phydbleep> :P
[07:59:15] <alex_joni> yeah.. that's the one
[07:59:49] <Phydbleep> That's an old one.. The newer one has a second smaller arm at the front.
[08:00:09] <Jymmm> well shit... I got 4 of those in the back... one gets me my groceries every week, another one does the laundry
[08:01:18] <Phydbleep> Great, Send one down here to babysit so I can get something done.
[08:01:36] <anonimasu> yeah I've seen thoose..
[08:01:37] <anonimasu> heh
[08:01:53] <anonimasu> but it feel like a hoax..
[08:01:53] <Jymmm> Phydbleep http://ducttape.com/
[08:01:53] <anonimasu> :D
[08:02:26] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is scared..
[08:03:35] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: It works.. They just dont travel very fast.. <10kph.
[08:04:02] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: that's fast..
[08:04:39] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Hell no I'm not giving that child duct-tape.. I do not want to see what the cat would get grafted to.
[08:04:40] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: the machines go ~30kmh in high gear at flat road..
[08:05:17] <Jymmm> Phydbleep *SIGH* you dont GIVE the tape to the kid, you DRESS the kid WITH the tape!
[08:05:51] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Same difference.. The kid ends up with the tape and the cat gets the shaft.
[08:06:45] <Jymmm> Phydbleep fine... get the kid butt naked + bottle of crazy glue + smooth surface wall
[08:07:11] <alex_joni> Jymmm: there was a page about sticking people to walls
[08:07:14] <alex_joni> with ducttape
[08:07:16] <Jymmm> Phydbleep apply glue to kids butt, place butt againest wall. Any questions?
[08:07:46] <Jymmm> alex_joni you never saw the pics of that? kinda funny.
[08:08:09] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep would use velcro on the ceiling and a trampoline.
[08:08:23] <alex_joni> http://www.octanecreative.com/ducttape/topten/index.html
[08:09:41] <Jymmm> http://www.octanecreative.com/ducttape/walltapings/images/gal_door.jpg
[08:09:59] <Jymmm> Phydbleep -----------------> http://www.octanecreative.com/ducttape/walltapings/images/gal_door.jpg
[08:10:26] <Jymmm> Phydbleep There, now yo have illustrated instructions!
[09:10:19] <alex_joni> * alex_joni yawns
[09:17:54] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A puts a sock in aj's mouth
[09:18:13] <alex_joni> * alex_joni finished swallowing it
[09:18:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni yawns
[09:18:24] <alex_joni> again ;)
[09:23:28] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[09:59:52] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[10:00:01] <anonimasu> the prototype I built works.
[10:00:06] <anonimasu> ^_^
[10:12:52] <alex_joni> nice
[10:13:12] <alex_joni> does it do anything?
[10:13:17] <alex_joni> or it simply only works?
[10:13:17] <anonimasu> plant seeds..
[10:13:18] <anonimasu> :)
[10:13:25] <anonimasu> but it does work..
[10:13:27] <alex_joni> lol
[10:14:17] <alex_joni> what kind of seeds?
[10:14:48] <alex_joni> any mary jane related?
[10:14:49] <anonimasu> ganja seeds ofcourse
[10:14:54] <anonimasu> nah..
[10:15:01] <alex_joni> heh
[10:15:04] <anonimasu> it's pine or whatever you call iut
[10:15:05] <anonimasu> it..
[10:15:22] <alex_joni> I call it fun :D
[10:15:28] <anonimasu> http://linnaeus.nrm.se/flora/barr/pina/picea/piceabi15.jpg
[10:15:51] <alex_joni> heh.. wouldn't mind to get a few in front of my house
[10:16:23] <alex_joni> do you plant by request?
[10:16:24] <alex_joni> :P
[10:16:33] <anonimasu> buy a machine yourself..
[10:16:36] <anonimasu> we just build them ;)
[10:16:47] <alex_joni> how about some testing?
[10:16:58] <anonimasu> impossible :/
[10:17:08] <alex_joni> get it over here, see how the GPS behaves :D
[10:17:13] <anonimasu> lol
[10:17:26] <anonimasu> shipping a 14 ton machine costs a bit ;)
[10:17:35] <alex_joni> let it run over here ;)
[10:17:48] <alex_joni> would probably take a while
[10:18:03] <alex_joni> what does it run on? diesel?
[10:18:07] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:18:25] <alex_joni> make the next one solar powered
[10:18:36] <alex_joni> or wind?
[10:18:43] <alex_joni> I know...
[10:18:47] <anonimasu> but the machines costs 600000$ ;)
[10:18:54] <alex_joni> steam powered, and burn trees for steem
[10:18:55] <anonimasu> that our equipment mounts on..
[10:18:55] <anonimasu> heh
[10:18:57] <alex_joni> steam
[10:19:27] <anonimasu> you could probably buy small trees for a couple of $ each..
[10:19:43] <anonimasu> but it takes 50-100 years for them to grow..
[10:20:04] <alex_joni> I'll buy some bonsai
[10:20:08] <alex_joni> fully grown ;)
[10:20:10] <anonimasu> ;P
[10:20:13] <anonimasu> cheap
[10:20:22] <alex_joni> yeah
[10:21:59] <anonimasu> now I need to machine another prototype, to see how easily manufacturing is..
[10:22:04] <anonimasu> easy..
[10:22:08] <anonimasu> manufacturing them
[10:22:21] <anonimasu> * anonimasu cries at toolchanges
[10:22:51] <alex_joni> what toolchanges?
[10:23:07] <anonimasu> need to change 3 kinds of drills for the job..
[10:23:18] <anonimasu> but I might be able to mill all holes and get away with just one..
[10:23:24] <alex_joni> heh
[10:23:31] <alex_joni> build a toolchanger
[10:23:34] <alex_joni> carousel
[10:23:41] <alex_joni> or what's it called
[10:23:43] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:23:54] <anonimasu> but I still dont have a drawbar that'll help out with it..
[10:23:59] <alex_joni> part of the support is already there
[10:25:11] <anonimasu> hm support?
[10:25:51] <alex_joni> NML & such
[10:25:59] <anonimasu> ah yeah
[10:26:03] <anonimasu> it's the physical part..
[10:26:11] <anonimasu> how do I get the tool out of the machine that's the trouble..
[10:26:20] <alex_joni> make it spit it out
[10:26:26] <anonimasu> lol
[10:26:27] <anonimasu> how
[10:26:37] <alex_joni> hmm.. small explosive charge?
[10:26:41] <alex_joni> lol
[10:26:43] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:27:00] <alex_joni> how about changing spindles?
[10:27:23] <anonimasu> http://home.insightbb.com/~joevicar3/default.htm
[10:27:27] <anonimasu> too expensive
[10:27:36] <anonimasu> maybe I could do with somthing like that..
[10:29:12] <alex_joni> not very expensive at 350
[10:29:20] <anonimasu> lol changing spindles is too expensive..
[10:29:25] <alex_joni> heh
[10:30:01] <anonimasu> that change is too small anyway
[10:30:08] <anonimasu> changer..
[10:30:10] <anonimasu> but the concept..
[10:30:21] <alex_joni> maybe if you automate it twice
[10:30:31] <alex_joni> on the other end it places tools on a conveyor
[10:30:42] <alex_joni> a large one, with many tools
[10:30:49] <anonimasu> I was thinking about a small robot ..with a tool magazine..
[10:30:57] <anonimasu> like -O-O-O-O
[10:31:16] <alex_joni> that's too complicated
[10:31:29] <anonimasu> the control isnt that advanced..
[10:32:01] <anonimasu> but it needs to be pretty stiff since tools stick...
[10:32:37] <alex_joni> right
[10:32:44] <alex_joni> you probably need a few kg payload
[10:32:50] <anonimasu> yep..
[10:32:54] <alex_joni> to have the force to get them out of there
[10:33:03] <anonimasu> I dont need any reach though
[10:33:09] <anonimasu> since I can slide the whole robot to the magazine..
[10:33:22] <anonimasu> maybe 4x4x5dm
[10:34:26] <anonimasu> or less.
[10:34:35] <alex_joni> yup
[10:34:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni loves to listen to Supertramp ;)
[10:34:49] <anonimasu> ;)
[10:35:08] <alex_joni> yahoo launchcast is pretty nice
[10:35:41] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:35:47] <anonimasu> I am listening to "love like blood"
[10:35:54] <anonimasu> a bit dark but nice
[10:36:13] <alex_joni> love like blood?
[10:36:29] <anonimasu> goth rock or somthing like that
[10:36:43] <alex_joni> hmmm .. too dark for my taste ;)
[10:36:48] <alex_joni> I set up my own station
[10:36:48] <anonimasu> lol
[10:36:55] <alex_joni> easy-listening mostly
[10:37:45] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[10:37:59] <alex_joni> that's ok for work ;)
[10:38:25] <alex_joni> do you use zee messenger?
[10:38:44] <anonimasu> haha
[10:38:45] <anonimasu> zee?
[10:38:51] <alex_joni> yahoo's
[10:39:12] <anonimasu> nop
[10:39:14] <anonimasu> nope
[10:39:16] <anonimasu> just msn
[10:41:05] <alex_joni> msn sux ;)
[10:41:16] <alex_joni> it's got scary emoticons :))
[10:41:19] <alex_joni> lol
[10:41:30] <anonimasu> I dont use/abuse them
[10:41:35] <Phydbleep> ):) ??
[10:41:53] <alex_joni> what's up Fido?
[10:41:55] <Phydbleep> Or was that >:)
[10:41:58] <alex_joni> heh
[10:42:00] <alex_joni> :-?
[10:42:36] <Phydbleep> Hell If I know.. This is just a text term, no icons. :)
[10:43:15] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: I'm trying to figure out where to put a 9" or 10" Logan lathe.
[10:43:29] <alex_joni> try on the ceiling :D
[10:43:38] <alex_joni> or maybe vertical on a wall
[10:43:54] <anonimasu> hm, you could turn if it hung upside down..
[10:44:01] <anonimasu> only trouble would be gearbox oil..
[10:44:02] <Phydbleep> Won't work..I'd have to sit on the floor to use it.
[10:44:09] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: cnc?
[10:44:32] <anonimasu> highspeed machines are often horizontal.. to help with chip evacuation
[10:44:37] <anonimasu> ;)
[10:44:40] <anonimasu> *grins*
[10:44:52] <Phydbleep> New they spec'd to 0.0005 runout so I'm tempted to try. :)
[10:45:17] <anonimasu> heh
[10:45:49] <anonimasu> hm, 0.0127
[10:45:54] <anonimasu> mm
[10:45:59] <anonimasu> that's pretty much *grins*
[10:46:27] <Phydbleep> I need to get it over here and then decide whether it or the SouthBend is going to go out to a friends farm.
[10:46:43] <anonimasu> my little crap lathe has < 0.01.. the dial ripples.. a bit..
[10:46:50] <anonimasu> but well that dosent help when the bed is ~
[10:48:12] <Phydbleep> --^__--^
[10:48:15] <Phydbleep> :)
[10:48:19] <anonimasu> * anonimasu kicks the laths
[10:48:20] <anonimasu> lathe
[10:48:50] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep waits for the nerve impulse to reach the brain..
[10:49:35] <Phydbleep> Wow.. This is scary.. Still no "OW!" :)
[10:49:58] <anonimasu> hehe
[10:50:30] <Phydbleep> I'm wondering whether this 600 lb lump will sink the shop..
[10:51:30] <anonimasu> probably not
[10:51:30] <anonimasu> :)
[10:51:35] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... But I parked the SouthBend on the high side and it's leveling out at least. :)
[10:52:38] <anonimasu> lol
[10:52:42] <anonimasu> what are you in a swamp
[10:52:42] <anonimasu> ?
[10:53:08] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep needs to add ~ 2' of shim to the se corner now.
[10:53:41] <anonimasu> lol
[10:53:49] <Phydbleep> Rio Grand flood plain.. Mostly sand and every time it rains the terrain contours change slightly.
[10:55:04] <Phydbleep> It doesn't help that the city needs to fix the leaking storm drains.
[10:55:04] <anonimasu> ah
[10:57:37] <Phydbleep> It rains and I lose part of the front yard down the sinkhole.. Oh, Well.. Park the beater over there and if the sinkhole eats it the city can buy me a another one. :)
[10:59:13] <anonimasu> :)
[11:00:22] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. At least it will have to eat the 3 cars and the house before it gets to the shop. :)
[11:01:13] <Phydbleep> Cheese it! We broke it..
[11:01:27] <anonimasu> I am building a manual
[11:02:27] <Phydbleep> a manual ?? Shop manual? Owners manual? Manual labor? What?
[11:02:35] <anonimasu> a manual.
[11:02:39] <anonimasu> owners one.
[11:02:53] <Phydbleep> Oh, For emc?
[11:02:56] <anonimasu> no
[11:03:00] <anonimasu> for the product I am working on
[11:03:59] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep tries to sneak a peek through anonimasu's laser mouse and sees nothing but spots.
[11:04:13] <anonimasu> lol
[11:04:29] <Phydbleep> OK, I give up.. What is it?
[11:04:38] <anonimasu> tree planting thingie ;)
[11:04:50] <Phydbleep> Send me one and I bet I can break it. :)
[11:05:08] <Phydbleep> Ot confuse it. :)
[11:05:13] <Phydbleep> Or
[11:05:28] <alex_joni> lol
[11:05:30] <anonimasu> lol..
[11:05:37] <anonimasu> I bet you cant..
[11:05:40] <anonimasu> almost..
[11:05:40] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks Phydbleep confuses anything
[11:05:44] <Phydbleep> Maybe both at the same time. :)
[11:06:19] <anonimasu> unless you apply a force > 1000Nm at the tip of it..
[11:06:29] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has proved it is possible to fsck-up an anvil with a rubber mallet.
[11:06:45] <anonimasu> well 1000nm into a dead stop
[11:06:46] <anonimasu> ;)
[11:07:33] <anonimasu> a rubber mallet cant do that..
[11:07:33] <anonimasu> :)
[11:07:37] <Phydbleep> Of course we popped a mold of the anvil and cast one from crap-crete for the purpose.
[11:08:14] <anonimasu> * anonimasu dosent get what you mean
[11:08:15] <anonimasu> really
[11:08:16] <anonimasu> hehe
[11:08:40] <Phydbleep> CRAP!.. This is going to suck!.. I still have to move the damn anvil out of the laundry room..
[11:09:24] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: crap-crete.. Cheap concrete and skimp on the water...
[11:09:38] <anonimasu> yeah but anvil/cast/?
[11:09:58] <Phydbleep> 2 part plaster mold..
[11:10:24] <anonimasu> ah ok
[11:10:38] <Phydbleep> Looked great when it crumbled. :)
[11:11:12] <anonimasu> I wish I could get some of that rapid moldmaking epoxy stuf.f.
[11:11:15] <Phydbleep> Tap, Tap! *SLUMP*
[11:11:27] <anonimasu> machine the pour then wait a but remove..
[11:11:31] <anonimasu> and cast stuff in it..
[11:13:04] <Phydbleep> I want to see the UV setting tank/cnc unit come down in price and lose 99% of the toxicity..
[11:13:42] <anonimasu> heh
[11:14:54] <Phydbleep> I'm going to say "G'nite" because I need to go fall over and try to get my back to de-spasm.
[11:15:00] <alex_joni> heh
[11:15:02] <alex_joni> nite
[11:15:13] <Phydbleep> G'nite all. :)
[11:15:24] <anonimasu> ight phydbleep
[11:15:43] <alex_joni> sweet dreams :))
[12:26:18] <alex_joni> * alex_joni yawns
[12:36:07] <les_away> good morning (or afternoon)
[12:36:17] <alex_joni> hey les
[12:36:55] <les_away> well we will switch gears a bit here
[12:37:30] <alex_joni> SQ wise?
[12:37:52] <les_away> We have deemed SQ unworkable and probably unfixable
[12:38:06] <alex_joni> so quick?
[12:38:15] <les_away> I think so
[12:38:27] <alex_joni> hmmm ;)
[12:38:32] <les_away> the latest mods just made a big mess
[12:38:58] <alex_joni> the ones cradek did?
[12:39:13] <alex_joni> sterling went berzerk
[12:39:27] <les_away> And we must recongnise that no one, not even the author, has ever gotten it to work
[12:39:34] <les_away> oops ha
[12:39:44] <les_away> so what are our chances?
[12:39:48] <les_away> but
[12:39:51] <alex_joni> well .. :)
[12:39:54] <alex_joni> maybe one day
[12:40:05] <alex_joni> but a quintic planner is needed no matter what
[12:40:19] <les_away> we will now look closely at the cubic sub interpolation section
[12:40:36] <alex_joni> and move that over to the normal tp?
[12:40:40] <les_away> unlike SQ it works with non trivial kinematics
[12:40:54] <les_away> but it is sub interpolation at the servo rate
[12:40:59] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[12:41:01] <SWPadnos> weirder
[12:41:05] <alex_joni> hey Stephen
[12:41:12] <SWPadnos> Hi Alex
[12:41:13] <les_away> it needs to be at the trajectory rate
[12:41:13] <alex_joni> we just had a split ;)
[12:41:23] <alex_joni> les_away: right
[12:41:28] <les_away> and it could easily be made quintic
[12:41:41] <SWPadnos> so we missed everything before "but it is sub interpolation at the servo rate"
[12:42:00] <alex_joni> logger_aj, bookmark
[12:42:00] <alex_joni> See
[12:42:12] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hands SWP the link
[12:42:38] <les_away> My feeling is that perhaps the lower the ratio of trajectory rate to servo rate....the more smoothing happens
[12:42:42] <SWPadnos> thanks
[12:42:58] <SWPadnos> shouldn't it be the other way around?
[12:42:58] <anonimasu> hm.. gtg
[12:43:01] <anonimasu> laters everyone
[12:43:10] <alex_joni> should have a few logs :D
[12:43:25] <les_away> We could never test this because the original TP suffers from queue emptying
[12:43:45] <les_away> the violent motions mask anything else
[12:43:55] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hands les a pill against queue emptying
[12:43:59] <les_away> paul will work on that today
[12:44:10] <les_away> and also switch to the emc2 tree
[12:45:01] <SWPadnos> cool - did you ever figure out how to get his Linux machine on the net?
[12:45:29] <les_away> basically ANYTIME the cpu is free and the queue is not full should used to fill it
[12:45:47] <alex_joni> now that's a CPU hog ;)
[12:45:50] <SWPadnos> but it can't tell that the CPU is free when it's waiting for a timer event
[12:45:59] <les_away> SWP: I think my isp has some proprietary stuff in the adsl modem
[12:46:02] <SWPadnos> (ie - after timer->wait(CYCLE_TIME)
[12:46:07] <alex_joni> les: how about a second CPU for queue filling?
[12:46:08] <les_away> it won't give him an ip
[12:46:10] <SWPadnos> wouldn't surprise me
[12:46:21] <SWPadnos> can you check your XP networking?
[12:46:26] <alex_joni> and a third for GUI & non-rt stuffs ;)
[12:46:33] <les_away> alex: perhaps...I will mention that to paul
[12:46:42] <alex_joni> les: was actually kidding ;)
[12:46:50] <les_away> We need to have a conf call with Fred if possible today
[12:46:52] <SWPadnos> second thread, I think he thought :)
[12:46:59] <les_away> heh
[12:47:08] <alex_joni> I fear paul_c will hit me with something if you do...
[12:47:16] <SWPadnos> I may try emc on a dual opteron soon - we'll see what happens ;)
[12:47:25] <les_away> I do math...I don't know much about RT programming
[12:47:26] <alex_joni> SWP: dual 64 bit?
[12:47:41] <SWPadnos> yes - and eventually quad (dual dual-core)
[12:47:49] <alex_joni> will actually run slower (my guess)
[12:47:49] <alex_joni> :D
[12:48:10] <SWPadnos> servo update cycle of 10 microseconds - heh :)
[12:48:14] <alex_joni> damn it's hot out there
[12:48:18] <alex_joni> 27 degs right now
[12:48:20] <SWPadnos> not out here
[12:48:23] <les_away> I have a blackboard full of cubic vs quintic graphs and stuff for paul
[12:48:29] <SWPadnos> it's about 27 degrees (farenheit)
[12:48:37] <les_away> 45f here
[12:48:43] <alex_joni> C here
[12:48:43] <SWPadnos> uh-oh - I hope you have some strong coffee for him
[12:49:01] <SWPadnos> C and C++ here
[12:49:18] <les_away> SWP no I just drew graphs of pos, vel, accel, jerk
[12:49:22] <alex_joni> html, php & the like here ;)
[12:49:36] <SWPadnos> ah - good. That shouldn't explode anyone's brain then :)
[12:49:43] <alex_joni> thank god for php ;)
[12:50:07] <les_away> no it just shows that quintic is the lowest order with cont jerk profile
[12:50:14] <alex_joni> otherwise I'll go nuts updating 200+ pages :)
[12:51:02] <les_away> oh also....emc does not blend adjacent arcs
[12:51:07] <les_away> exact stop only
[12:51:16] <les_away> yhat is bad...very bad
[12:51:41] <les_away> many higher end cam progs fit g2/g3 arcs to contours
[12:52:35] <les_away> so that needs to be looked at
[12:53:59] <SWPadnos> A single servo cycle only deals with linear motion, right?
[12:54:09] <SWPadnos> (since it can only output a simgle velocity command)
[12:54:12] <SWPadnos> single
[12:54:56] <SWPadnos> this ends up turning into a quadratic interpolation, since the beginning velocity and ending velocity may not be the same
[12:55:27] <SWPadnos> (but not calculated as a quadratic, just possibly physically ending up as one)
[12:55:56] <les_away> well the cubic is a cubic position/time profile
[12:56:19] <les_away> so velocity/time is actually quadratic
[12:56:50] <SWPadnos> yes
[12:57:18] <les_away> accel/torque becomes linear ramps with sharp cutoffs
[12:57:24] <SWPadnos> for a given axis (joint), there is only an initial velocity, and an ending velocity
[12:58:07] <les_away> sometimes the infinite jerk in cubic can be benign
[12:58:47] <les_away> when paul and I were driving to dinner I told him to depress the gas pedal slowly at a constant rate
[12:58:49] <SWPadnos> so if the smoothing occurs on the end velocity of one segment to the initial velocity of the next segment, it should be simple(tm), right :)
[12:59:05] <les_away> i.e. liners accel ramp
[12:59:40] <les_away> then I told him to verry suddenly take his foot off the gass ( sudden accel discontinuity)
[12:59:57] <les_away> but because friction is low, the effects are benign
[13:00:17] <les_away> just a non math example
[13:00:48] <SWPadnos> Math is OK - you can't get too hairy an equation with IRC :)
[13:01:00] <les_away> haha true
[13:01:37] <SWPadnos> There should only be major problems when there's a discontinuity in the milling profile
[13:01:58] <SWPadnos> (and a discontinuity of some proportion - like greater than a 45 degree turn)
[13:02:02] <alex_joni> or when your machine falls apart
[13:02:03] <alex_joni> :D
[13:02:11] <SWPadnos> or the power goes out
[13:02:28] <les_away> well I showed him an example of an infinite jerk move in x and y
[13:02:49] <les_away> two semicircles joined together to make an s
[13:03:03] <les_away> smoothly joined...but
[13:03:04] <SWPadnos> with a perfect alignment?
[13:03:20] <SWPadnos> (ie, a bezier or other cubic would have no problem)
[13:03:29] <les_away> centripedal accel of course suddenly reverses at the join pont
[13:03:52] <SWPadnos> then the planner is running at too high a level
[13:03:59] <SWPadnos> it should be dealing with linear segments
[13:04:05] <les_away> I showed him how a quintic would actually warp the circular path a bit near the join point
[13:04:29] <les_away> this is just a graphic example
[13:05:09] <SWPadnos> in linear-land, the two segments would have identical velocity vectors, and there should be no acceleration "transition" between them
[13:05:23] <les_away> The we drew graphs of with Mariss does with rectangular convolving a trapezoidal profile in the g200x embedded emc
[13:06:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is curious
[13:06:21] <les_away> well in position trapezoidal TP blends with parabolas
[13:06:45] <alex_joni> yay... I finished my sitemap
[13:06:53] <les_away> smoothing by convolution makes a bit of a mess
[13:07:02] <les_away> large assymetrical path errors
[13:07:25] <alex_joni> yet you don't hear any complaints :D
[13:07:45] <les_away> well allowed following error is large
[13:07:55] <alex_joni> heh
[13:08:16] <les_away> it is smooth...
[13:08:36] <les_away> but in a way tht can sometimes make big chordal errors
[13:09:08] <les_away> for a plasma cutter or something...
[13:09:11] <les_away> no problem
[13:09:56] <les_away> oh SWP we will see today if your sleep thing has any effect on queue emptying
[13:10:02] <les_away> It might
[13:10:27] <les_away> although I understand that wasn't the reason for doing it
[13:10:28] <SWPadnos> It shouldn't - it only affects the rescans of NC files
[13:10:32] <SWPadnos> right
[13:10:36] <les_away> I see
[13:11:09] <SWPadnos> However - it's pretty trivial to change the sleep conditional to not sleep if the queue is below some percentage full
[13:11:19] <les_away> good
[13:11:53] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes away
[13:11:55] <alex_joni> bye guys
[13:11:56] <SWPadnos> But - I'm not sure my change is in the same place
[13:11:58] <SWPadnos> see ya
[13:12:10] <SWPadnos> in fact, I
[13:12:23] <les_away> hmmm I need a speaker phone here so we can talk to fred
[13:12:31] <les_away> usually use skype
[13:12:34] <SWPadnos> in fact, I'm pretty sure it isn't - mine is in the interpreter, not the command issuing function
[13:12:47] <SWPadnos> (well - the routine that calls the interpreter)
[13:12:49] <les_away> perhaps a run to wallmart is in order before we call fred
[13:13:09] <les_away> SWP: understand
[13:13:27] <SWPadnos> are you guys still working with EMC1, or have you started in with BDI4?
[13:14:05] <les_away> No we agreed to switch this to the emc2 tree if we are not working with segmentqueue
[13:14:22] <les_away> will pull the stg and plug it into pauls bax
[13:14:31] <les_away> box
[13:14:51] <les_away> just take a few minutes
[13:15:05] <les_away> but he has to hack up a quick stg driver
[13:16:13] <SWPadnos> heh - no rest for the wicked
[13:16:19] <les_away> yeah
[13:16:43] <les_away> well he said he can have something written in half an hour
[13:16:59] <les_away> so by tommorow We should be going
[13:17:02] <les_away> haha
[13:17:04] <SWPadnos> cool
[13:17:06] <les_away> mi bad
[13:17:48] <les_away> hand will be on the big red button a lot I assure you
[13:17:55] <les_away> heh
[13:18:07] <SWPadnos> heh - you should have a dead-mans switch
[13:18:14] <les_away> yeah
[13:18:37] <les_away> ha as much as I hate em
[13:18:43] <les_away> like on lawn mowers
[13:19:12] <les_away> I disable em
[13:19:14] <SWPadnos> yep - plus a heart rate monitor
[13:19:31] <SWPadnos> too fast or too slow, and the machine goes off
[13:19:46] <les_away> yeah rate skips then goes up after the e-stop dive
[13:21:00] <les_away> Well gosh 500kg gantry mass with 5.6 kva peak servo va is just ideal for debugging stg motion programs right?
[13:21:14] <les_away> not boring
[13:21:48] <SWPadnos> yeah - nothing like the maximum stress test to prove things out
[13:21:59] <SWPadnos> 'scuse me - time to make more tea (thanks, Paul)
[13:22:02] <les_away> aw I can drop the PS voltage at first
[13:22:09] <les_away> might be prudent!
[13:22:18] <les_away> k SWP
[13:26:15] <SWPadnos> OK - mostly back
[13:26:34] <SWPadnos> I don't see any queue checking in emctaskmain.cc
[13:29:05] <SWPadnos> nevermind
[13:34:17] <les_away> hmm
[13:34:49] <les_away> the most recent changes to cubic.c involvethat
[13:35:35] <les_away> in cubicaddpoint()
[13:37:51] <SWPadnos> which file?
[13:38:08] <les_away> cubic.c
[13:38:24] <SWPadnos> emc1?
[13:38:44] <les_away> uh yeah that is what I am looking at
[13:38:51] <les_away> let me go to emc2
[13:39:09] <SWPadnos> BDI4 version?
[13:40:19] <les_away> let me get paul
[13:44:35] <les_away> les_away is now known as paul_c
[13:45:14] <paul_c> cubic.c (for bdi-4) is in emc/motion (I think....)
[13:45:36] <SWPadnos> yep - and there are no important changes from EMC1 to BDI4
[13:46:00] <paul_c> and the same for emc2 HEAD
[13:46:14] <paul_c> no real changes there either.
[13:46:24] <SWPadnos> right
[13:46:51] <SWPadnos> I don't think that instance of the word "queue" is in the right context here.
[13:48:56] <paul_c> cubic just breaks an end point in to way points for the servo loop to work with (as I understand it)
[13:49:34] <paul_c> so it generates (for the want of a better term...) a ring buffer with four points in it.
[13:50:34] <SWPadnos> yep
[13:51:47] <fenn> paul_c, if les is there could you ask him if he minds if i steal (with attribution) his article on "scraping with an angle grinder" for my machine tool construction wiki
[13:54:06] <paul_c> Les says "No problem.."
[13:54:19] <fenn> great
[13:55:19] <paul_c> * paul_c hides
[13:55:38] <dave-e> pc...usually a good idea!
[13:55:58] <dave-e> you're learning
[13:56:58] <paul_c> gotta go and plug Les' STG card in to another box and run some more tests soon
[13:57:49] <dave-e> any progress?
[13:58:27] <paul_c> We found segmentqueue has a few "issues"
[13:58:51] <dave-e> hmmm
[13:58:55] <cradek> any that aren't already in the tracker?
[13:59:03] <dave-e> hope they can be fixed
[13:59:45] <paul_c> Not this week I don't think.
[14:00:37] <dave-e> any way to test the output/performance without a machine?
[14:01:09] <cradek> dave-e: sure, run it with the simulated machine
[14:01:24] <dave-e> but can you spot the problems that way
[14:01:36] <cradek> depends on the problem.
[14:01:39] <cradek> sometimes you can.
[14:02:02] <cradek> you could also use the headphone trick and hear most problems.
[14:02:25] <dave-e> that is probably a better way...the ear is pretty good at that sort of thing
[14:02:50] <cradek> I think the remaining problems cause discontinuity which would be very easy to hear
[14:03:18] <cradek> but ... I don't know what problems paul found; nothing has been added to the bug tracker
[14:03:23] <paul_c> Have a problem where a couple of long segments are being linked in with short ones, and feed drops to a very low value
[14:03:42] <dave-e> not nice
[14:03:51] <cradek> I've seen that too. Do you have a simple program that does it?
[14:04:17] <paul_c> and the other problem is with a long series of very short segments that causes SQ to halt
[14:04:41] <cradek> I have *not* seen this lately. I thought I had all the fatal errors fixed.
[14:05:02] <paul_c> I'm in the process of isolating a small section of Les' test program that demonstrates the "bug"
[14:05:03] <cradek> or, I don't understand, please describe "halt"
[14:05:16] <cradek> great
[14:05:40] <cradek> do you mean it stops completely?
[14:06:03] <paul_c> There is a line in SQ that does a check for s->ID == 474 (as I recall)
[14:06:41] <paul_c> and as best I can tell, this is the point where SQ is stopping.
[14:07:19] <cradek> bizarre
[14:07:39] <cradek> no, all that does is print a message
[14:07:42] <cradek> as far as I can tell
[14:08:34] <cradek> well please keep me updated. I can help with this.
[14:08:45] <paul_c> SQ doesn't stop at that point, but that message is the only one to be printed prior to the halt.
[14:09:39] <cradek> you have the latest cvs, right?
[14:09:53] <cradek> I have used it extensively and have *never* seen a halt
[14:09:54] <SWPadnos> interesting that "diagnostics" is used there, but "diagnosticsOff" is used in many other spots around that one
[14:09:56] <paul_c> from tail end of last week, yes.
[14:10:00] <cradek> ok
[14:10:14] <cradek> and you're talking about emc1, right?
[14:10:45] <paul_c> SWPadnos: Too many prints at the RT level is not a good idea - You end up overloading the syslog daemon
[14:11:29] <paul_c> cradek: All the tests with Les has been with an EMC[1] build
[14:11:33] <SWPadnos> right - the diagnosticsOff routine causes fewer erros to be printed, no?
[14:11:53] <cradek> paul_c: ok, just making sure
[14:12:26] <paul_c> Les has just reminded me... There are also some max accel violations with SQ that caused some pretty hefty joilts
[14:13:01] <paul_c> and that only occurs with the latest SQ, not the earlier version.
[14:13:33] <paul_c> apparently, at axis reversal events.
[14:14:32] <paul_c> Today, I think we will look at using the emc2 tree, primarily because I have some additional code that can be used to aid debugging.
[14:19:47] <paul_c> time to head out to the shop to move heavy iron..
[14:20:14] <paul_c> Will report back later, hopefully with some detailed observations.
[14:20:23] <paul_c> paul_c is now known as les_away
[16:15:22] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[16:15:23] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[18:31:30] <anonimasu> hm, I wonder if I should go out to the mill.
[18:32:26] <Jymmm> anonimasu pick me up a 55lb bag of all purpose flour if you do.
[18:32:42] <anonimasu> no way
[18:32:46] <Jymmm> make that a 100# bag instead
[19:46:45] <anonimasu> hm..
[19:46:46] <anonimasu> http://www.mecsoft.com/Mec/
[19:46:53] <anonimasu> you can see the same trouble I have with circles.
[19:47:33] <anonimasu> bleh
[20:28:45] <robin_sz> ahh, meep?
[20:30:25] <A-L-P-H-A> beep
[20:30:30] <robin_sz> :)
[20:31:10] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:31:24] <robin_sz> so irls? what gives?
[20:31:57] <robin_sz> I presume paul_c is over at chez les fixing segmentqueue?
[20:32:04] <robin_sz> an news from that yet?
[20:37:23] <robin_sz> so, does anyone want to grab my refactored/recoded version of tkemc before I delete the CVS?
[20:37:56] <les_away> hi robin
[20:37:59] <robin_sz> hi les
[20:38:08] <robin_sz> hows the queue?
[20:38:12] <les_away> bad
[20:38:27] <robin_sz> bad an cureable?
[20:38:47] <robin_sz> or fundamentally bad?
[20:38:49] <les_away> I think not but don't want to discourage too much
[20:39:05] <les_away> recent changes did not help
[20:39:17] <les_away> it gets stuck in a loop
[20:39:27] <les_away> BUT
[20:39:45] <les_away> even the old tp has always had serious problems
[20:39:53] <les_away> the queue runs out
[20:40:03] <les_away> more specifically the tp stack
[20:40:19] <les_away> if that were fixed
[20:40:46] <les_away> and if the cubic sub interpolation were made to run "softer"
[20:41:07] <les_away> then we would have a reasonable cubic splined TP
[20:41:15] <robin_sz> hmmm
[20:41:22] <les_away> that works with more than trivial kinematics
[20:41:46] <les_away> so we have diverted to that while perhaps chris looks at segmentqueue
[20:42:08] <robin_sz> but it would still go bad on the "lots of little lines" type interpolation?
[20:42:24] <les_away> It should not
[20:42:40] <les_away> it should velocity adapt to prevent aliasing
[20:42:58] <robin_sz> and what about lookahead?
[20:43:13] <robin_sz> thats waht killed the old tp
[20:43:36] <les_away> We figure lots of little lines really must function...because cam programs spit those out...even if they are not desired
[20:43:49] <robin_sz> yep
[20:43:58] <les_away> it should have at least 4 pt lookahead
[20:44:53] <robin_sz> ah well,
[20:45:06] <robin_sz> I think Im past caring now anyway ...
[20:45:43] <anonimasu> hm
[20:45:44] <robin_sz> was just wondering where/if to upload the remnants of the GUI I rewrote before deleting the CVS
[20:45:45] <anonimasu> howcome
[20:45:45] <anonimasu> ?
[20:46:03] <les_away> I suspect that if the sub interpolator runs at the servo rate and the trajectory/servo rate ratio is reduced more cubic smoothing will happen
[20:46:20] <les_away> but first we must fix tp stack starvation
[20:47:25] <les_away> smoothing doesn't matter much if the thing is stopping to refilll the tp stack
[20:48:05] <les_away> We will give it our best shot
[20:48:30] <les_away> since the alternative is an emc that is not useful for industrial aps
[20:48:53] <les_away> Which will make the "little project" of late dead in the water
[20:48:59] <Jymmm> History Channel (if you got it)
[20:49:13] <robin_sz> les_away: theres always the G200X
[20:49:16] <les_away> what's on?
[20:49:20] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[20:49:32] <Jymmm> les_away hand tools... very cool
[20:50:06] <les_away> I did an analysis of rectangular convolving trapezoidal profiles...more on that later
[20:50:17] <les_away> I saw the hand tool one...it was good
[20:50:22] <anonimasu> robin_sz: will gecko push around a servo system?
[20:50:23] <Jymmm> les_away hammer with a tuning fork built insdie the handle
[20:50:34] <robin_sz> anonimasu: yes
[20:50:42] <les_away> yup dynamic absorber
[20:50:43] <anonimasu> robin_sz: stepper servos?
[20:50:50] <robin_sz> yes
[20:50:53] <Jymmm> les_away exactly =)
[20:51:07] <anonimasu> robin_sz: do you know of any recent comercial machines that use step servos?
[20:51:18] <Jymmm> les_away Hey, have you ever heard of explosive being made from bleach?
[20:51:19] <robin_sz> no
[20:51:24] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:51:32] <robin_sz> most just use steppers
[20:51:36] <les_away> bleach...heh..no
[20:52:20] <les_away> well some bleach...hydrogen peroxide...
[20:52:40] <les_away> not sodium hypochlorite
[20:53:16] <Jymmm> Potassium chlorate explosive
[20:53:37] <Jymmm> bleach + potassium chloride
[20:53:47] <les_away> anon: this are a myriad of low end light industrial routers with steppers
[20:53:56] <robin_sz> anonimasu: thats part of the reason im off, ive got bored crapless by the "if its not real servos then its not any good" along with the "if its not linux its no good" and the "if the compiler isnt free then its no good" stuff, people seem to be more interested in ideology than results
[20:54:00] <anonimasu> les: yeah, but that's low end..
[20:54:10] <les_away> We are not doing that because it would be a me too thing
[20:54:20] <les_away> there are enough of them on the market
[20:54:40] <robin_sz> anonimasu: you also forgot to ask "will it do real servos" to which the answer will be yes
[20:54:56] <anonimasu> robin_sz: actually I've asked you that before
[20:55:21] <les_away> well step servos are real servos
[20:55:24] <les_away> for sure
[20:55:32] <robin_sz> well, laggy ones
[20:55:33] <les_away> but we don't want to do that
[20:55:47] <anonimasu> well they work way better then steppers anyway..
[20:55:55] <robin_sz> no they dont
[20:55:57] <les_away> they can yes
[20:56:08] <anonimasu> well, the servos I have work better then the stepper I have..
[20:56:13] <robin_sz> no they dont
[20:56:22] <robin_sz> it depends on what you use them for
[20:56:22] <les_away> a step pulse train is just another form of an analog signal
[20:56:58] <robin_sz> a servo motor in a system that has to hold a constant force in a fixed position burns itself up
[20:57:10] <robin_sz> a stepper just sits there and hums happily
[20:57:47] <robin_sz> its like saying "diesel engines are better"
[20:57:53] <robin_sz> it depends on the application
[20:57:55] <les_away> anyway actual position on a display is a requirement of what we need
[20:58:04] <robin_sz> right
[20:58:31] <robin_sz> so thats steppers or servos then
[21:00:49] <les_away> well heh a stepper with a feedback device is technically a servo anyway
[21:01:02] <les_away> have one on the table right here!
[21:01:10] <robin_sz> guess so ..
[21:01:19] <robin_sz> a 200 pole AC servo heh
[21:01:24] <les_away> yup
[21:02:31] <Jymmm> =)
[21:02:36] <robin_sz> be intersting to see if Mariss gets the "unstallable" idea to work
[21:03:03] <Jymmm> les_away you want to see the rest of it?
[21:03:17] <Jymmm> robin_sz how dod your usb breakout work?
[21:03:23] <Jymmm> robin_sz how did your usb breakout work?
[21:03:32] <robin_sz> just fine
[21:03:47] <Jymmm> robin_sz fired it up full bore yet?
[21:04:02] <robin_sz> sure, its been spinning steppers for a while now
[21:04:12] <Jymmm> robin_sz cutting air?
[21:04:18] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:04:34] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I dont care really whatever that works, but I like emc and hope for it to be able to push a machine at industrial speed some day..
[21:04:37] <robin_sz> fixed the bugs with the analogue inputs and some of the IO
[21:04:42] <Jymmm> robin_sz Ah, let me know after you got soem sanddust or swarf goin.
[21:04:57] <Jymmm> les_away you was to see the whole document?
[21:05:14] <les_away> sure
[21:05:54] <Jymmm> les_away /join #xyz and I'll paste in there
[21:06:21] <les_away> anon: we are trying as hard as we can do get emc working at industrial speed
[21:06:37] <Jymmm> unless ppl want to make explosive from bleach in here
[21:06:37] <les_away> k
[21:06:55] <les_away> I just want some nitric acid wood stain
[21:07:12] <Jymmm> les_away Hey, I already found you a source.
[21:07:15] <robin_sz> anonimasu: sure, whatever works. I like some bits of EMC, but other bits suck, and I cant see those changing anytime soon due to fundamental desing issues
[21:07:37] <les_away> $50/liter makes me sad
[21:08:04] <robin_sz> anyway, does anyone want to grab this tarball of the GUI before I hit delete?
[21:08:06] <Jymmm> http://www1.chapman.edu/~jipsen/mathml/asciimathcalculator.html
[21:09:13] <les_away> heh robin don't you delete that yet!
[21:09:26] <anonimasu> robin_sz: too bad.
[21:09:27] <robin_sz> well grab a copy quick then
[21:09:34] <anonimasu> * anonimasu takes a break
[21:09:35] <les_away> where?
[21:09:37] <robin_sz> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/tkemc/
[21:09:42] <les_away> k
[21:09:45] <robin_sz> tarball link at bottom of page
[21:10:28] <les_away> k
[21:10:35] <robin_sz> it was a rewrite of the old tkemc with some sort of structure before I grew tired of tcl
[21:10:40] <robin_sz> the devils own language
[21:10:52] <Jymmm> robin_sz I thought that was perl?
[21:11:00] <robin_sz> nah
[21:11:10] <robin_sz> it was tcl
[21:11:14] <Jymmm> heh
[21:11:24] <robin_sz> how i deteest that langauge
[21:11:46] <les_away> ok delete away...I have it
[21:11:49] <robin_sz> k
[21:12:03] <Jymmm> the next lang I'll learn will be c or python
[21:12:36] <robin_sz> do C
[21:12:50] <robin_sz> or C++
[21:12:57] <Jymmm> not c++, ansi c
[21:13:10] <Jymmm> * Jymmm be old skool
[21:13:30] <les_away> I will go back to the shop and see what Paul is up to...we had some pretty ecxiting moments getting servo to work on the emc2 tree
[21:13:39] <robin_sz> or do Perl then C maybe
[21:13:46] <robin_sz> k, later les
[21:14:10] <Jymmm> Nah, not perl. maybe way down the road.
[21:14:51] <robin_sz> Perl is very C like, but without the compiling
[21:15:08] <Jymmm> I can't for the life of me find 1/2"-5 acme
[21:15:21] <Jymmm> I have a some ROA perl books.
[21:15:23] <Jymmm> ORA
[21:16:03] <robin_sz> yeah, the "camel" book
[21:16:07] <robin_sz> and the llama
[21:16:26] <Jymmm> I got lazy and learned php, so I want something with some balls to it now. I REALLY should lean towards C.
[21:16:52] <robin_sz> php is a really bad example
[21:17:21] <robin_sz> in all web stuff the good technique is to sperate your code from your presentation layer
[21:17:28] <robin_sz> PHP just mixes it all up
[21:17:31] <robin_sz> it sucketh
[21:17:33] <Jymmm> Well, if pascal was still mainstream as it used to be, I'd probably pick that up again.
[21:17:46] <robin_sz> well, try Perl .. its pretty hardcare
[21:17:50] <robin_sz> hardcore
[21:18:34] <Jymmm> Way down the road I will. I'm goin for C to be the next one.
[21:18:42] <robin_sz> 'k
[21:18:48] <Jymmm> I need gui and electronics
[21:19:02] <Jymmm> PIC, uC, apps etc
[21:19:02] <robin_sz> well forget C then
[21:19:10] <robin_sz> try C++
[21:19:19] <Jymmm> There are some GUI toolboxes for ansi c
[21:19:25] <Jymmm> primative
[21:19:28] <robin_sz> old and hard to use
[21:19:34] <Jymmm> and thats all I need
[21:19:58] <robin_sz> oh, well try ALGOL 68R then
[21:20:18] <Jymmm> if I cant pronounce it, I aint touching it =)
[21:20:25] <robin_sz> thats hard to use.
[21:20:32] <Jymmm> so is BF
[21:20:37] <robin_sz> true
[21:21:10] <robin_sz> all modern GUI stuff is object oriented, you cant really do it any other way without great pain
[21:21:25] <Jymmm> yeah, I know.
[21:21:33] <Jymmm> just sadistic like that
[21:29:53] <les_away> back for a bit
[21:30:06] <les_away> paul is just looking at a lot of diffs
[21:31:09] <Phydbleep> les_away: Ask paul if I need to epoxy a carry-on handle to the top of a Compaq..
[21:31:45] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep will get rid of that #&^*$%^&* machine one way or another..
[21:32:21] <les_away> heh
[21:33:09] <anonimasu> hm..
[21:33:19] <anonimasu> tomorrow is more testing of the prototype..
[21:33:22] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[21:33:45] <anonimasu> got to run it for the remaing hours.. of the week..
[21:33:51] <robin_sz> seed sowing?
[21:33:56] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:34:11] <anonimasu> I dont know how the DC motor holds up to be pulsed..
[21:34:50] <robin_sz> to sow a seed?
[21:35:05] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:35:12] <robin_sz> so it does one turn?
[21:35:21] <anonimasu> it's a seed feed mechanism..
[21:35:38] <robin_sz> like a plunger?
[21:35:43] <anonimasu> hm no
[21:35:51] <Phydbleep> Archimedes scrfew?
[21:35:52] <anonimasu> it turns and feeds seeds..
[21:35:56] <robin_sz> right
[21:35:57] <Phydbleep> screw
[21:36:05] <anonimasu> nope, cant really go in that detailed on that..
[21:36:16] <robin_sz> sounds like a job for a stepper :)
[21:36:48] <anonimasu> how would I drive a stepper?
[21:37:18] <anonimasu> driver electronics would add too much stuff
[21:37:18] <robin_sz> same way you drive a dc motor with a drive?
[21:37:21] <Phydbleep> Stepper or dc motor with a spring/release.
[21:37:33] <anonimasu> I have a DC motor with a gearbox there already..
[21:37:37] <asdfqwega> this is on a mobile platform?
[21:37:40] <anonimasu> yes
[21:38:01] <robin_sz> it almsot sounds like a job for pneumatics
[21:38:05] <Phydbleep> Several tons of mobile platform from the sound of it. :)
[21:38:12] <anonimasu> yeah..
[21:38:17] <anonimasu> pneumatics arent applicable..
[21:38:26] <asdfqwega> So...gas/diesel engine power plant
[21:38:40] <anonimasu> lol
[21:38:52] <anonimasu> this is a 8x8cm thing
[21:39:05] <anonimasu> I am just curious if the motor will live if I run it like - - - - - -
[21:39:15] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Ah.. Model, not full size?
[21:39:18] <robin_sz> night not
[21:39:24] <anonimasu> it's full size..
[21:39:27] <asdfqwega> Well, I was going to suggest using a RC servo
[21:39:33] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Sleeve or ball bearings in the motor?
[21:39:41] <anonimasu> ball bearings..
[21:39:54] <robin_sz> lots of power inoput for accel, little revolutions .. it might =get ratehr hot
[21:39:55] <anonimasu> and a support bearing in the end of the shaft..
[21:39:59] <Phydbleep> Should be fine as long as the dust seals survive.
[21:40:12] <anonimasu> it's sealed..
[21:40:30] <anonimasu> it's 200:1 geared ;)
[21:40:37] <Phydbleep> What's the duty cycle?
[21:40:42] <anonimasu> 40rpm..
[21:40:45] <fenn> how high does it jump?
[21:41:10] <Phydbleep> What's the duty cycle? OFF/ON times (approx)
[21:41:12] <anonimasu> dunno..
[21:41:19] <anonimasu> like 0,3s..
[21:41:54] <anonimasu> or les..
[21:41:56] <anonimasu> less..
[21:42:00] <Phydbleep> So a 0.3 sec pulse every ??? seconds/minutes/hours?
[21:42:02] <asdfqwega> heh...geek-trap AND engineer-trap
[21:42:03] <fenn> i installed bdi 4.20 yesterday on a computer that was in a grocery store dumpster of all places
[21:42:40] <Phydbleep> fenn: Woohoo I call dibs on the touchscreen panel. :)
[21:42:49] <anonimasu> a hole takes <1,4 seconds to dig.. ;)
[21:43:05] <anonimasu> I dont really know since I'll be counting how many seeds I release..
[21:43:05] <fenn> strange things happen though... random programs stall and comes back from screensaver with colored static specklies over the gui
[21:43:26] <fenn> its just a pentium 2 desktop
[21:43:29] <anonimasu> I'll run until the "plant X seeds" condition is met..
[21:43:33] <anonimasu> or until it times out..
[21:43:36] <Phydbleep> fenn: Blow the dust out of the video ram or change the card.
[21:43:40] <anonimasu> if the sensor is broken
[21:44:10] <fenn> Phydbleep, could it have gotten metal dust in it already from sitting in the shop one day?
[21:44:12] <Phydbleep> So ~ 5 secs max.. What's the travel time tot the next hole?
[21:44:43] <Phydbleep> fenn: Regular dust will give wierd effects if the vieo ram gets caked in it.
[21:45:01] <fenn> Phydbleep, will try that
[21:45:14] <anonimasu> 1,4..
[21:45:17] <anonimasu> secs
[21:45:41] <anonimasu> or well 0,3 might be long..
[21:45:45] <Phydbleep> fenn: You could try ripping it out of the case and putting it in a big tupperware if you're worried about metal dust.
[21:45:56] <anonimasu> a couple of ms might be enough..
[21:46:13] <fenn> Phydbleep, i was thinking of just putting furnace filter material over all the air vents
[21:46:20] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: So you have a <5% duty cycle on the motor.
[21:46:29] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:47:03] <Phydbleep> The batteries will be scrap before the motor is.
[21:47:54] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: it's a forest machine the equipment mounts on.
[21:48:02] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: as long as there's disel there's power.
[21:48:12] <Phydbleep> fenn: Furnace filter is OK, but not the greatest.. Check the clearance racks at Mall-Wart and others for HEPA filters for humidifiers. :)
[21:48:45] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: I was thinking about how the internal of the motor will work, how long..
[21:48:51] <anonimasu> internals..
[21:49:03] <robin_sz> given the enviroment (mud, water, clag and grunge) i figure IP65 sealed is a must :)
[21:49:08] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Nice diesel to fit on an 8cmX8cm platform. :)
[21:49:24] <fenn> you could try using one of the bearing companies' bearing life calculators
[21:50:33] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: As long as the seals survive the motor will be fine.. YOu can take a cheap-o motor and make it last a long time by putting it in a sealed box with good shaft seals.
[21:50:37] <anonimasu> robin_sz: the motor will be enclosed in plastics.. with O rings..
[21:50:51] <robin_sz> plastics?
[21:50:55] <anonimasu> yeah..
[21:51:05] <Phydbleep> FRP?FRN?
[21:51:09] <Jymmm> recycled milk jugs?
[21:51:11] <Phydbleep> FRP/FRN?
[21:51:19] <robin_sz> wont they get trashed when the oh so careful operator uses it to hammer down some brash?
[21:51:25] <robin_sz> mmm jugs
[21:51:27] <robin_sz> milk
[21:51:32] <anonimasu> cant remember what the plastic is called..
[21:51:36] <Jymmm> robin_sz 36 DD
[21:51:37] <anonimasu> it's white and cuts nicely..
[21:51:49] <robin_sz> Jymmm: can you recycle milk?
[21:51:52] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: cost isnt a issue, I could put a servo there and it'd be profitable.
[21:52:01] <Phydbleep> That matches a lot of plastics.
[21:52:03] <Jymmm> robin_sz lol
[21:52:04] <anonimasu> ;)
[21:52:20] <anonimasu> heh
[21:52:24] <robin_sz> right, enough of this .. im off.
[21:52:31] <Jymmm> robin_sz G'Night
[21:52:32] <robin_sz> so long, and thanks for all the fish
[21:52:38] <anonimasu> night robin
[21:52:42] <Phydbleep> We knew that.. Are you leaving too?
[21:52:50] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: it cuts very good
[21:52:51] <anonimasu> ;)
[21:52:54] <Phydbleep> Hehehe, G'nite robin_sz :)
[21:53:38] <Jymmm> anyone know of a source for 1/2"-5 TPI ACME rod?
[21:53:38] <anonimasu> so you could say the motor is sealed.. the only stuff that could come inside of it are seed parts..
[21:54:19] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Add a layer of seals to rpevent that and the motor should last the brush or bearing life.
[21:54:39] <anonimasu> I was thinking about brush life if you run it on/off lots..
[21:55:00] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Or just make it easy to clean/replace and say "Fsck-It".
[21:55:02] <Phydbleep> :)
[21:55:37] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: a hours of downtime costs too much..
[21:55:39] <anonimasu> :)
[21:56:42] <Phydbleep> Make it part of the seed hopper if you're really worried.. Reloading the system swaps the hopper/motor/feeder.
[21:57:02] <Phydbleep> Plug in the control cable and off you go.
[21:57:33] <anonimasu> well one hour in 4 years is one thing..
[21:57:51] <anonimasu> but all downtime is bad..
[21:57:59] <Phydbleep> 1 hour a year as part of the annual maint..
[21:58:15] <anonimasu> yeah they still have mainentance on the other stuff..
[21:58:39] <Phydbleep> .1 hour a year as part of the annual maint would be all it really needs to open/blow/close...
[21:58:55] <fenn> Jymmm, just use a delrin one :)
[21:59:17] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: compressed air?
[21:59:24] <Jymmm> fenn delrin rod?! delrin nut, ok. but rod?
[21:59:43] <fenn> Jymmm, yeah i know weird huh
[22:00:05] <anonimasu> actually I could put the motor housing under pressure.. but that's overkill.
[22:00:57] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Yeah, pop the cover and blow out the crap.
[22:01:08] <Jymmm> what s good size setscrew to use for shaft couplers?
[22:01:25] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: I see 1/2"-10 and 1"-5 but no 1/2"-5
[22:01:40] <Jymmm> Phydbleep Yeah, be neither, except the delrin
[22:01:43] <Jymmm> me
[22:02:04] <fenn> why does it have to be 1/2-5?
[22:02:16] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: 30% of the shaft dia for a set screw.
[22:02:33] <Jymmm> fenn Well, it's the 5 TPI I'm mostly interested in
[22:02:38] <Jymmm> Phydbleep ah, TY
[22:02:47] <Jymmm> Phydbleep what about thread?
[22:03:05] <fenn> setscrews always seem to use fine thread for some reason
[22:03:08] <Jymmm> or was that thread
[22:03:18] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: That's to make sure it stays.. Use as fine a thread as you can for the holes/screws.
[22:03:30] <Jymmm> 8/32 ?
[22:03:53] <fenn> i use two setscrews at 120 degrees apart with coarse thread so i don't have to buy another tap
[22:04:00] <fenn> or 90 degrees apart sometimes
[22:04:33] <Phydbleep> for 1/2", I'd use 1/4-28 or 5/16" fine.
[22:04:42] <Jymmm> I dont' mind buying a tap, I dont want to order shitloads of setscrews
[22:05:05] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Pick something you will use more of later?
[22:06:11] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep ended up with a 'Dorman' box full of various setscrews and keystock.
[22:07:41] <Jymmm> will a 5 -vs- 6 TPI make a big difference?
[22:08:59] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Depends on that you're trying to do.. It will add a little (~20%) precision and bork your nice X/5 math. :)
[22:09:38] <Phydbleep> That's if you're using it for a leadscrew.
[22:09:46] <Jymmm> I would be, yes.
[22:10:05] <fenn> i gather he's not going for precision
[22:10:13] <Jymmm> they have 1/2-10, and then 5/8-6.
[22:10:18] <Jymmm> fenn ya think? =)
[22:10:47] <Jymmm> fenn I said say acme and not ballscrew =)
[22:10:50] <Phydbleep> So X/5 becomes X/6 ,, Except stock acme is 5/8"-8
[22:11:12] <Phydbleep> I see 3/8"-12 as a stock size.
[22:11:22] <Jymmm> Phydbleep I found 5/8-6 and 5/8-8
[22:12:38] <Phydbleep> 1"-5, 3/4"-6, 5/8"-8, 1/2"-10, and 3/8"-12 on this list.
[22:12:54] <Jymmm> Phydbleep your looking at mcmaster
[22:13:23] <fenn> hmm mcmaster had a 5/8"x6?ft ballscrew for something like $25 but i cant find it now
[22:13:44] <fenn> rolled thread
[22:13:49] <Jymmm> wow
[22:13:58] <Phydbleep> Nope.. http://www.remcobolts.com Bout a mile over from me. :)
[22:13:59] <fenn> yeah i was surprised too
[22:14:09] <Jymmm> Phydbleep oh, heh
[22:14:41] <Jymmm> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMK32?PARTPG=INSRAR2
[22:14:47] <Phydbleep> They have 1-3/8"-4 if you want to commit assault with a threaded weapon. :)
[22:15:06] <Jymmm> Phydbleep Shit... I found 1"-2 TPI
[22:15:53] <fenn> make sure that it's actually a single thread and not multi start, unless you are into multi start threads
[22:16:07] <Jymmm> the 2 TPI ?
[22:16:23] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Why are you showing me a page where I cant even afford to pay attention?
[22:16:23] <fenn> well, any extreemely coarse thread like that
[22:16:40] <Jymmm> Phydbleep for available dimensions
[22:17:13] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Yeah, 2/3/4/5 starts.. That way the thread isnt a twisted flat-bar. :)
[22:17:32] <Jymmm> Phydbleep heh
[22:17:59] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: When I hit the enco page it was all motor kits.
[22:18:30] <fenn> i keep hitting reload on the enco page and it changes every few seconds
[22:18:53] <Phydbleep> Cheapest thing I saw was $950+
[22:18:55] <Jymmm> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRAR?PMSECT=451
[22:19:03] <Jymmm> is that any better?
[22:19:18] <Phydbleep> Yes. :)
[22:19:47] <Jymmm> I hate when websites do that
[22:19:59] <fenn> that's actually not bad, $20 for 6 feet of very stout leadscrew
[22:20:16] <Jymmm> fenn which one?
[22:20:18] <Phydbleep> $7 for a 6' 1/2-10
[22:20:30] <fenn> 1"-5 is $17.19
[22:21:22] <fenn> i got some of their 1/2-10 and it is very pretty
[22:21:25] <Jymmm> I'm think fo the 5/8-6, fewer threads should help the overall speed
[22:21:28] <fenn> i can't vouch for accuracy
[22:22:23] <Jymmm> fenn first machine, so I'm going for cheap prototype
[22:22:23] <fenn> yeah i guess a heavy leadscrew can be more of a disadvantage sometimes
[22:23:21] <fenn> foam cutter?
[22:23:33] <Jymmm> 5/8-6 on the X, then 1/2-10 on the YZ - gantry router
[22:24:22] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: ICK!.. Match your X/Y pitches if you want round circles.
[22:24:23] <fenn> i was surprised how fast steppers could go first time i saw my friend's gantry run
[22:24:42] <Jymmm> Phydbleep Ah, wasn't aware of that.
[22:24:54] <fenn> Phydbleep, why?
[22:24:56] <Jymmm> ok, 5/8-6 on all three.
[22:26:10] <Phydbleep> Divide 3/8 then 3/10 then find a common factoral in your 200 or 180 ppr steppers. :)
[22:26:40] <Phydbleep> It's a lot easier when the x/y pitch match.
[22:27:10] <fenn> i figured your error tolerance should be above the resolution of the steppers anyway
[22:27:26] <Phydbleep> Well.. Match or are an even multiple.
[22:28:33] <fenn> probably easier to use the same thread anyway so you can just crank out whatever needs to be done
[22:29:00] <fenn> instead of fiddling around with several different sizes
[22:29:06] <Phydbleep> fenn: That is why there are the doubles for the threads.. 4/8 5/10 6/12 :)
[22:30:29] <fenn> Phydbleep, i always thought it had something to do with the angles involved
[22:30:45] <Phydbleep> I saw some 1/4"-20 acme somewhere a while back.
[22:31:16] <fenn> was it on something you made on the lathe? :)
[22:31:39] <Phydbleep> fenn: Nope.. Commercial product.. Remco carried it for a while.
[22:36:10] <A-L-P-H-A> heh. if I machine FASTER I get smaller chips.
[22:36:21] <A-L-P-H-A> 1" long ribbons of alu.
[22:36:22] <SWPadnos> or at least thinner
[22:36:36] <A-L-P-H-A> much better than the 10" of the same thickness.
[22:36:47] <A-L-P-H-A> I think I'm going 180mm/min
[22:36:53] <A-L-P-H-A> on the lathe
[22:40:18] <fenn> chipbreaker?
[22:40:29] <A-L-P-H-A> it's a TMNG221 bi
[22:40:30] <A-L-P-H-A> bit
[22:40:41] <A-L-P-H-A> no coating
[22:42:14] <A-L-P-H-A> TMNG221-VC2 (Valenite)
[22:43:47] <fenn> i guess that means no chipbreaker... you can add one by clamping a little triangle of metal that goes almost to the edge and forces the chip back in on itself
[22:44:07] <fenn> a busted positive rake insert will work
[22:45:42] <A-L-P-H-A> it goes have a chip breaker.
[22:46:21] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm TNMG221 (this is the correct number now)
[22:47:03] <fenn> oh oops
[22:51:32] <fenn> well i'm going to bed. maybe it will be warmer tomorrow and i'll actually get something done
[23:04:16] <Jymmm> Phydbleep when you said 30% for the setscrews, did you mean the length of the setscrews being 30% of the shaft diam? so, a 1" shaft should have 1/4" long set screws at least?
[23:13:15] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: No, About 30% of the shaft dia for the screw dia.
[23:13:37] <Jymmm> Phydbleep ah, ok. glad I asked =)
[23:13:56] <Phydbleep> 1" shaft, 3/8" setscrew.
[23:14:25] <Phydbleep> 3/8" or 7/16"
[23:14:59] <Phydbleep> Basicly you want a good secure lock.. use 2 or 3 if you feel you need to.
[23:15:38] <Jymmm> Yeah, I was considering doubling up if needed.
[23:15:51] <Jymmm> parallel to each other, or may at 90 deg
[23:15:54] <Jymmm> maybe
[23:16:06] <Phydbleep> bbiab .. Going to dive in the shower and soak out some sore spots.
[23:16:15] <Jymmm> Enjoy!
[23:16:16] <Phydbleep> 90 or 120 degree.
[23:16:26] <Jymmm> l
[23:16:29] <Jymmm> k
[23:16:33] <Phydbleep> 2@90 or 3@120 degree.
[23:22:28] <anonimasu> night everyone
[23:57:43] <SWPadnos> hiya jmkasunich
[23:57:50] <jmkasunich> hi steven
[23:58:19] <SWPadnos> Thanks again for the switches and stuff
[23:58:29] <jmkasunich> you're welcome