I am having trouble..
the hd of a server I administer if full :/
yeah some bunch of retards installed it.
/var/spool is 2gb..
* anonimasu sighs
anonimasu: Is it a LVM volume?
I solved it.. I removed some users mail.
do you guys know any good CAD for houses?
I need some click and drool stuff
* anonimasu sighs
nice when users put's mp3's online.
an0n: on a c-function
how can you specify multiple parameters?
say I want a function to take 3 params
4 or more params
like it's done for main(argc, argv)
I know that in c++ it's easy
cant remember right now
* anonimasu yawns
* anonimasu sighs
find a nice girl... and get a back rub. :)
that's one think I seriously miss from having a GF.
A-L-P-H-A: I dont have time for that :/
heh.. pretty much
hm, I wonde if I could run uclinux on my palm..
to do some graphing
I think netbsd would boot on the palm..
damn os runs on toasters.
paul_c: how's the CL going?
not looked at it for a few days..
a software PLC implementation for emc :)
Have a ideas I need to discuss next week before doing much more with CL
* anonimasu nods
* Phydbleep is stuck and in need of an optical interrupter...
I tried the tape + Sharpie trick and it wasn't enough..
sharpie == pen/marker
Take a piece of tape, wrap it around the motor shaft, draw the sectors for the encoder in by hand with a black marker.
* Phydbleep got to see a 3000 rpm motor spin up to ~ 4500 rmp when the feedback went.
hm, howcome it went away?
too low samplerate?
I took the flywheel with the old silver mylar encoder label off and =set it on the bench. :)
Naw, The sectors were about the same size, I thhink it's the flourecent lights in the shop.
Hehehe... I just need to take a 5/8" bore pulley and drill a bunch of holes in it. :)
Either that or peel the old label off and stick it on a smaller pulley.
why not get laser foil and print a new one?
My hobby/research budget is negative numbers.
and your into CNC machines ^_^
just need to book a taxi for next week, and I'm all set to go..
The I bought the lathe for $100, I have scrounged the motor, PC, monitor, panel parts, new triacs for the motor controller and a whole pile of other crap..
what sort of late ?
what sort of lathe ?
I have enough rectangular steel tubing (from tractor shipping crates) to build a whole new work table and shelves.
ah... The 1937 jobbie
Hehehe.. Yeah, The motor is a Pacific Scientific 1HP, 3000 RPM, 100V PMDC unit from a treadmill.
Anyone here got a small cnc router? Like circuit board size?
Damn... a cnc router only .010" tall
* Phydbleep sends a wheelie-bin chasing Jymmm.
Hey, you said it, not me =)
I was thinking circuit board PRODUCTION size.
* Jymmm snickers *
I still wonder what the trash truck driver is going to do when the bin dodges the arm...
* Phydbleep is a sadistic s.o.b...
The use a touchless (for the operator) system here.. Big mech arm grabs the can and shakes it over the back of the truck..
The bins have wheels.. Wheels are to move things.. Bin + batteries + motors + radio control == schizoid truck driver. :)
he'll probably come to beat you ;)
I'll do it with a spare bin and drop it down the street at the apartments. :)
My only worry is that he catches it and I lose the drive pack. :)
and bolts were thus invented
hm my memory object works
I am coding somthing horrid right now :
a object to handle meory at a plc..
err multiple user settings
Now back to my question.. Has anyone here got a small cnc router?
router or mill actually.
I have a mill
yup - Two
Bridgeport Interact II & a Sherline
Who wants to make a motor controller board? I'll supply the G10 stock and the gerber files.
the shipping would kill your budget..
you are located ?
* Phydbleep is sick of trying to decypher a 8kx8 ROM full of 8031 code.
Blast! Foiled again...
and Phydbleep is in ?
Not to be confused with or associated with West Texas. :)
if you look at www.linuxcnc.org I am in the red dot at the top ;)
oh so THAT's what that hop is about!
and see where the yellow lines converge...
where's that place?
You see the dot out in the middle of nowhere in the US? I'm southwest of that.
WTF?! Acrobat READER download is 27MB
Jymmm: Have a free copy of xpdf on the house.
* anonimasu nods
Nah, I'll just find an older version
I've got several old versions if you want one.
brb eating a banana
Look on motherboard driver cd's if you have any.
Thanks. But I even have Acrobat for MS-DOS around here somewhere
it looks sorta funky when you try to view a pdf from dos, but it works
I found some nice conrods for cars..
the site said "theese conrods are not forged, because forging makes internal stress inside of the rods and make them crack"
machined from solid billet aluminium 7071
Spherical rod ends?
I dont know some noname brand..
I found a place that sells carillo for my car.. they are good enough..
or rather, they are the best :)
I loved the comment..
[09:58:06] <Phydbleep> http://www.magnumforceracing.com/fk_rodends.asp
engine conrods :)
carillo are used in the pikes peak racecars.. for example :)
www.carilloind.com gets me a "This domain hijacked" page.
[10:00:43] <anonimasu> http://www.carrilloind.com/
err s/r/rr ^_^
Ah.. Now I know who they are.. There's a hydroplane nut here in town who uses their rods.
if I ever get time to finish my other engine that'll be the rods in it..
but they cost a arm and a leg
but I dont think there are any better rods you can buy..
My next engine will not use conrods..
goin rotary huh?
someday I'll machine a rotary engine
a model of one..
I'd like to make a candle powered steam engine
the machining itself wouldnt be the hardest part, the apex seals would be
4 cyl boxer, 2 doudle ended pisons with scotch-yokes.
[10:08:17] <anonimasu> http://images.google.se/imgres?imgurl=http://www.skyaid.org/images/wankel_mini.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.skyaid.org/other_vtol.htm&h=180&w=225&sz=31&tbnid=CcylLyTAXCEJ:&tbnh=81&tbnw=101&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwankel%2B%252B%2Bmini%2Bengine%26hl%3Dsv%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG
Either that or I'm going to go with a new set of double rotary port heads I've been wanting to try.
Oh, It so cuuute!
anonimasu: It uses 2 pieces of rotating tubing for the valves, you can open up 1/2 the top of the head per valve if you do it right..
another hard part with making a wankel engine would be the shaft..
the internal gear's on the rotor..
Not at all.. Start with 2nd or 3rd gear from a Honda or small automatic transmission.
hm, or I could buy a gear that's the right size
Yeah, I generally just go to the transmission shop and look in the scrap bin for one to play with.. I'll go buy a new one after I see what it will survive.
hm, I dont care for live..
it's just a model engine :)
[10:15:18] <anonimasu> http://www.kinzoku.co.jp/image/kikaikakou_p3_b.jpg
dont you just hate when people are able to mill stuff like taht?
Nice... That will be one hell of a pump.
I wish I could see a video of somone machining a impeller like taht..
or see it irl..
If I read that right it's a 15" chuck. So that is big jet-ski or small jacuzzi-jet.
* anonimasu nods
They probably tried to overspin the old one and had it cavitate to bit..
[10:24:03] <anonimasu> http://www.kinzoku.co.jp/image/kikaikakou_p2_b.jpg
[10:24:23] <anonimasu> http://www.kinzoku.co.jp/image/kikaikakou_p4_b.jpg
they have all toys I want ;)
[10:25:26] <anonimasu> http://kinzoku.kinzoku.co.jp/index_e.html
I see that..
* Phydbleep found the english pages
* Phydbleep wonders what a 5"x8" envelope to Nort Sweden and back would cost...
you'r probably better off having somone machine it locally
make a quote on cnczone..
Hehehe... it's only $5 ???
I am unsure how good the results would get...
This would all be standard .1 spacing for DIP's and Berh headers.
I've never machined any boards..
I wouldn't expect through plated holes or anything like that, just routed and drilled.
Hehehe.. Afraid it'll work and everyone will want some?
more afraid to loose time I can use for work..
Ahh... No time to try building your own stepper driver units. :)
* Phydbleep looks for cnczone.com
I'd rather buy a STG..
WOW, That looks like my spindle drive motor. :) Big 400 oz-in stepper.
anonimasu: Are you a member @ cnczone?
* Phydbleep is registering and it wants to know if a member refered.
sticking anonimasu in the box will work?
Morning les :)
pretty cold here for this far south...there was some snow on the higher mountains
Phydbleep I usually stick anonimasu in the closet, but a box will do =)
Barrel... Hurricane Style!
* Phydbleep will probably get shot for saying this, but..
I.M.H.O. 90% of Wash D.C. is so far in the closet they've been to Narnia...
C.S. Lewis.. The Lion,The Witch and the Wardrobe.
* Phydbleep is fighting with a motor controller and looking for someone who can mill pc-boards..
I'm about to chuck the controller and start over.
Phydbleep: talk to cradek
although there are better cs lewis books
I know what I want and I can even generate the gerber files for the run.
* alex_joni goes home
* nevyn likes the magigicans nephew and LWW
I am trying to kind of cost upan Hbridge driver
alex_joni: What part of the world is cradek in?
say 5 amp 90v or so
Phydbleep: to my knowledge US
alex_joni: Cool :)
I believe that he is in Eastern Time.
[11:05:15] <alex_joni> http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc
les: You want to do what with an H-Bridge?
just exploring whether I should make them in house for a product
PWM into an H-Bridge?
yeah or analog
rayh: PWM into an H works just fine. :)
I and some others are considering making a commercial small cnc
* Phydbleep does it all the time for DC to 3-phase.
Jon Elson has a board that'll do that.
the analog to dc motor.
les: Define "small"
well 3 amps are about $400 to $900 so it is a significant cost
les and do we get a 90% or 99% discount?
small= 20"x 20"
les: Would you like a $50/channel solution?
ha yeah something like that
les oh, and cnc what? mill? router? ???
* Phydbleep is working with 48V 15 amp DC to 3-phase units for bicycle motors.
router with some metal capability
Big 1HP 3pole steppers. :)
looking at a servo solution
I designed the current batch of controllers for the company. :)
the world is full of small stepper based machines
I just wonder if 3 amps need to be hundreds of dollars
Stepper + absolute position sensor.
not if you could develop them yourself..
you should have a look at FPGA's
for the logic..
3 amps, 4 channels should be ~ $18 each in 1000 lots.
well....whatever is least costly and can deliver 1000 in/min and .001" repeatability
$18 for the driver (chip) only, or for a complete unit?
$18 sounds good but need about 5 amps cont 10 peak
That's strictly for the drivers.. The encoders would be another ~$10 in parts.
the 90V rating will also severely limit your options
That's for 20amp peak MOSFETs
yes I know...I perhaps can bend on the 90v
les : What was the name of that stuff you mix with water to laminate MDF ?
Have you seen the posts on the Geckodrive list about turning them into straight PWM servo drives?
I't xalled glue.
each channel end up about the size of a cigarette pack with a heat sink the same size.
Phy: sounds good
les you called it something else though?
oh - laminate - nevermind :) (but it'll be really shiny with Zip wax)
les: Let me get some sleep and I'll check on the parts in 8-10 hours.
powdered resin glue...
No problem.. Hehehe... Send me a cnc unit if you get rich. :)
les - what price range are you looking for (per axis)?
Ah... Plastic Resin Glue
yes it is an amino resin
that is typically used as the binder
SWPadnos: I think I can get it to <$50 per axis.
SWPadnos: encoders and all. :)
The encoders on the motors?
I am just trying to cost this thing up
yeah that's the stuff urea formaldehyde
piss preservative - great
SWPadnos: I was going for simple multi-row encoders with a sync hole.
linear on the table or rotary on the motor?
03rumley * 10documents/scratch.txt: Testing... testing... Trying out TortoiseCVS's commit tools. Which text in what dialog gets put where...
urea forms amino resins by dehydration
SWPadnos: Rotary for both with what i'm thinking.
hmmm - what resolution are you thinking about (how many CPR)?
Lovely... Piss countertop.. :\
that's what I was thinking :)
1 step/count for the outer ring then a 8-9 bit code for absolute rotation inside of that.
ah - OK. Using photo film disks or the like
That should give a return for every discrete step.
Yeah, film or drilled brass plates. :)
absolute encoders tend to be a little expensive due to the phototransistor arrays
You'd need an awfully small drill (or a very large disk) for that :)
use one on the motor and another one on the carriage scaled for length.
you can use a monochrome linear CCD array
les: linear optical sensors, like they use in cheap scanners. :)
(like a cheap optical mouse)
CCD needs to be fast though
Drive it with IR.
Logitech MX1000 does 800 updates / sec or something like that
that's pretty close to the servo update rate
sync it to the drive pulses.
thoose sensors are expensive if i remember it correctly
I dont know if it's profitable building the encoders..
with USDigital ones starting at $19, probably not
(in single qty)
also, geckodrives are way less expensive in quantity
the encoders you can buy are probably better then anything you could possible build yourself
SWPadnos: geckos wont do 1000ipm :)
what do you generate your pulses with?
Either the G200x or Jon Elson's USC
(or an FPGA)
1000 IPM is 16.666 IPS
you can do 250k pulses/sec with a Gecko
Fairchild has an 18 pin DIP with a 256x1 array..
Yes I need about 160k pps
250k / 16.666is 15000 steps per inch
so - 0.0001 resolution only needs 167k
but I do not have much issue with encoder costs
$25 will buy that easily in quantitiy
The geckos go down to around $85-90 in quantity, I believe
les: do you need cosed loop?
but not in the amp
only to the pc..
amp would run current mode
voltage or PWM controlled current source
you can also do that with a small modification to a Gecko
yes I know that
You might want to contact Mariss and ask if you can get a run of boards without the logic section
I wonder if I could do that and run with a vital
I Have talked to Marisss a good bit about that
ordering new drives would be a waste
if you can do that reliably
* Phydbleep has to go fall over...
I'm sure you'd have to have a big order (in the several hundred to 1000 unit range) to get him to change his production line though
les: Let me know what's going on later. :)
I am just trying to shave away some of the cost of 3 amps/servos/encoders
SWPadnos: if you find out how to do it tell me
the Gecko mod?
you just saved me a couple of 100$
hold on one sec
just bypass the step converter
should be an analog input to the pWM stage
From Mariss: (several lines follow)
where the pid is summed
Understand hacking the drive voids the warrantee. Having said that,
Marris uses analog op amps for pid
auto-reset the drive by shorting ERR/RES to ENC+. Cut the trace going
to pin 2 of the LM393 which is immediately behind the LIMIT trimpot.
Connect a 500 Ohm pot across ENC+ to ENC- and take the wiper to pin 2
of the LM393.
I have a broken servo gecko :)
IE, pin 2 of that LM393 is the PWM control input
with a dead input stage ;)
I have asked Marris to provide a +/-10 analog in to the 320/340
It wouldn't cost anything
hm, what did he say about it
not just no but "Fuck No" :)
I hope the hack works good :)
He said he would consider it
my vital purchase just went a couple of months close
It is a nice value added feature that costs almost nothing
I'd gladly pay a bit extra for it..
if I would have known..
but I did not push it because I need to do better than the cost of the geckos
geckos are good, but well, signal generating from the pc isnt that good..
I'm looking for an email that has OEM pricing - it's really pretty good
servo signal with pc is fine
but pulse generation isnt
I would expect $75 or so OEM quan 100
For 1000 ipm, .001 repeatability, and about 500 in oz torque a servo solution should be cheaper
Other than using a tapping head, any way to use a cnc router to tap by chance?
if you have a servo spindle..
for big holes a thread milling cutter will work
tapping head is the way
there are a bunch of different kinds though
a little small for thread milling
just curious, where can I read about threadmilling?
you might be able oto se a rigid tapper (which I think is less expensive)
able to use
yes - carbidedepot.com
[11:48:16] <anonimasu> http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-threadmilling.htm
that's the one :)
Oh, I get it now.... it follows the contour to cut the threads
Anyway 3 amps, 3 servos, and 3 encoders off the shelf quan 10 can easily be $2000
I need to cut that in half or more
and I think I can
the servos are the real killer there
they seem irreducible
yup they do seem to be....
back to my cnc router threads a sec.... any suggestions for a motor/spindle? A router seems too high rpm and too low torque at lowered speeds
I just look at what really needs to be there to provide torque
Jymmm yes you would need a low speed high torque spindle
les That I know, but what? I'd use a corded drill, but can't think of a way to mount it accuretly
your drill press
using the lowest speed dbelt configuration
SWPadnos this being cnc router
well - you need big motors for low speed/high torque applications
I have a design where the spindle is easily removed
are you talking about building your routers, or tapping with your end product?
SWPadnos tappign with end product
les: your spindle mount is more costly than Jymmm's entire router :)
for a low speed drilling spindle I would use a fairly high speed motot belt drive reduced
SWP haha yes I guess
Eh, I think I'll play aroudn with a variable speed CORDed drill
My spindle mount can be rotated and locked at various angles... it is on two huge 3" tapered roller bearings hevily preloaded
One day, I'll actually get collets and bits for my small tapmatic
I just have one of those chinese hand tappers
I have a couple
and another day, I may find a larger one for not too much money
(but I'm not holding my breath on that one)
I am trying to guess how many holes I tapped on the cnc....
where n is the number you think you did :)
prob over a thousand
like the rails...
5/16 about 2 inches deep
I remember I drilled and tapped the rail mounting holes after scraping
and the stress warped the surface about .002"
yep - see, it's arrays of holes like that, that you really want to do on a CNC :)
had to rescrape a bit
well now I can make little cnc machines on the big cnc
it is metal capable
heh - somebody needs to make a machine that can make all the parts for itself
well - not necessarily automated :)
lots of machines can do that some
[12:04:45] <paul_c> http://staff.bath.ac.uk/ensab/replicator/
Ah Johnny Von Neumann stuff
I'd love to have the construction robots from Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy
I have often thought of mking some kind of bug that crawls along surfaces and grinds them flat or straight
that, on steroids (and building sized) is what I'm talking about :)
it could be done
I was just thinking of a little bug with a small grinder...say 1 kWor less
just let the thing go and crawl around
I guess sensing absolute (or relative) elevation to the required precision might be a challenge
integrating levels is one way
laser is another
I think integrating levels would work
vibration could be an issue though
have it do the same thing as my write up on making flat surfaces
but then, if it's automatic, the machinecould stop, wait, measure, start up again ad infinitum
sure vibration would have to be dealt with but I don't see a problem with enough signal conditioning
SWP: yeah that is also a way
Once I drew up plans for a little bug that crawls around on high rise windows and licks off the dirt
giving it water to drink is a problem...
I just saw on cnn...no cigarette lighters any more on airplanes
we have guaranteed sales of number of passengers x 0.25 at all times
than will be billions?
well - it was kind of funny that you could take 2 cigarette lighters and 4 books of matches on a plane
(but 5 books of matches and no lighters was too much /)
airport cocession stands will make a lot of money on this
yes they will
One business idea I had (when both my jackknives were being thrown away at LAX) was a FedEx stand next to the security area
drop off your stuff and a business card (or a copy of your ticket), and we'll ship that stuff you forgot to put in your checked bags
Or even ship it counter to counter in the airports - it just gets put on the plane in the cargo area
I really really don't like to fly anymore
I love flying, but I can't stand the stupidity of the "security measures"
unless Iam flying myself
(which don't actually help with security)
Stay away from big airports. The rectal checks are great in the small ones.
I love the security questions - "are you going to blow up the plane" and the like
like I'd answer yes if that *was* my plan...
I just can't take the security stuff...I get pissed than they put me in the little room
I've got it down to a science
I almost never get slowed down, and that's with a computer bag full of tricks
usually I have electronics gizmos with me if it is a typical business trip
I am just sick of it
When I go to chicago I just drive
Well - that's a 15 hour drive for me, so the 2-hour flight is way more convenient :)
I take the travel money and get a nice rental car like a caddy or jag
well - there is that
and book nicer hotel rooms
plus you then have a car in Chicago, which is useful
But, you are a little closer to things than I am - you're only all the way to the right - I'm all the way up the map as well :)
It is 15 hrs or so from here
Same distance to Chicago, but on average, you're closer to everywhere else :)
crossing the mountains slows me down a bit
Actually, it may be closer to 20 hours from here - it's 8 hours to Buffalo (if I'm really hauling)
where are you?
Essex Junction, Vermont
30 miles south of Canada
I guess you are still waiting for spring to happen
it was warm for a few days, but it seems to be back down into the 40s again
here it is typically 75f or so in the afternoon
but it did snow last night at higher elevations
above 5000 ft
Well - the wife and I are going to Ft. Lauderdale next week
Darn less. We've got robins pulling worms and the lake is open here.
plenty warm there
so we should get warm, and it ought to be a little more spring/summerish when we get back
In Chicago june frosts were possible but rare
I've seen snow on the air in July while pulling beets and carrots.
Spring is nice here...but the tree pollen is very bad right now
it clogs car radiators and air filters
I'm sure I lugged a few kilos of that yellow stuff back with me last year..
well much of the south is pine forest...but here in the mountains it is a narrow strip of almost all hardwoods
spruce at the highest elevations
well have to go to the post office and mail some encoder parts
* Jymmm dogpiles robin_sz GOOD MORNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well, the company just expanded its employ base by 100%
WOOHOO! A slave has been born!!!
well, now I need to run again
get over to that sign exhibition ...
was supposed to go Tueday, but stuff happened argh ..
anonimasu: Your lisp is showing
I just found this emc, looks very cool
we're working on it...
I'll be back later
* paul_c disappears for a cigar.
I noticed a "live cd" is that just for install? or will it actually run a machine? similar to knoppix
it is usefull for testing the hardware...
it will run a machine, but the ini needs to be modified if the defaults don't suit
You can use it as an install, but....
the developer has moved on to supporting the BDI-4 series.
can't the developer just maintain both?
ok, can you recommend a good general cnc irc channel? or a good general support website, I have googled
do you know the various Yahoo groups?
#emc for EMC & a bit of linux support..
no I don't know the yahoo groups
SWPadnos: IF the developer had time to do both.... Maybe.
CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO for machine building stuff
paul_c: isn't there infinite time in each day? :)
'pends how long it takes to change a lightbulb
jobshophomeshop or something like that for machining related stuff (like actually using the CNC you build from the discussions in CCED)
There's another one I can't remember - you can probably search groups.yahoo.com for relevant ones
thanks swp, I shall search there
andy__: There's also the emc-users mailing list
ah - DIY-CNC
I need to persuade my sysAdmin that I need to use the internet at work :(
ask him for a root shell at the same time. ;-/
heh, i don't need that I'll just ssh back home :)
be back shortly.
never refuse a root shell if you can geet it =)
Jymmm, good point
Is "Servo to Go" the only servo controller that EMC can use?
two cards from the Vigilant range, the Vital card, and
a Sensoray PC104 card.
good afternoon, paul
is there any sites where servo control is discussed in detail with EMC?
not that I know of...
hum. Ok. It's always nice to be foraging ahead in uncharted waters.
Les Watts is quite knowedgable about servos & emc
There are a few others on the mail list that use servos
* paul_c is away: another meeting. another beer.
wow... I'm sooo used to alu. that when I bought mild steel, it's SOO heavy.
2ft of 1.75" is heavy.
now to finish the design... with the metal as my limiting factor.
as = was :D
Deech I am a servo emc user
We can talk after lunch
hahaha. "Fortunately, alligators don't corner well, so if one is chasing you - get ready for an Alligator Safety Tip - you're supposed to run in circles. I'm serious. Schoolchildren are taught this in Florida, while children in other states are learning to read."
-- Dave Barry
you really notice how dense steel is when you buy 3.25x6x8 inch blocks of it
and have them shipped to you :)
well I went back to EMC two nights ago, and it works well now, the reason for step loss was i has the feed rate set to high, man do i feel like a fool... LOL
oh and a 35v power suply instead of 12v helps also... :)
1.21 gigawatts, baby :)
I feel a little scared. I'm about to "modify" a tool, to make it into a spindle. I bought a DA300 x 6" x 0.5" collet extension. Which I'm about to thread the shaft to house a nuts on either end.
lol, it will work out :)
Aren't those extensions hardened?
you still around?
yes I'm here now
How do I make them servos make with the moving?
I kid. I kid.
Ok. sorry, was on the phone with the wife. done now.
Ok, in a more intellegent way now.. how do I make with the servos moving? In general. I'm smart enought to fill in the blanks, but I'm having a hard time getting the "big picture" of the components I need.
les, I dont know if it's hardened.
I don't think so, as there's some dents in it form use.
Deech, power supply. controllers (www.geckodrive.com). servos. computer.
you need servos with encoders, servo amps, and a card for the computer
oh yeah, encoders.
and a power supply
like I said.
les likes ot repeat me alot.
don't mind him. ;)
So, the computer gets the card, fer instance, the Vital Systems MOTENC-100, then from that you go to the servo amps, which go to the servos?
the encoder feeds back to the card?
I'm thinking I should have taken my friend up on the coffee. tired now.
wait till you try to cut threads on that extension
actually I hopr you figure something out...extensions do make a good start for a spindle
now, with the card, I see the connectors, looks like flat cable. From those I go to a breakout board, then wire over to the servo amps?
right you need some kind of breakout board
then the servo amps will have a cable that runs off to the servos themselves.
Am I right in assuming it doesn't matter what size the servos are to the contoller, just to the amps.
in other words, you can drive whatever size servo you want, provided the amp can push it.
servo amps are much like audio amps...in fact you can hook them to a speaker
yes any size if rated for it
and by "cool" I mean, "totally sweet"
so you have the card?
not yet. still designing.
what size machine?
so many choices, I was still figuring out what bits I need.
it's going to be an industrial robot for automated inventory pack and management.
worked on one of those a while back
basically, a pick lift for 300lb hunks of steel.
had a gantry
it was about 20x20x15 foot work envelope
I'm not doing the mechanical design, I'm just the guy who figures out how to make it move.
overhead support for y axis
we're looking at shelving cells about 100ft long by 15ft high to start with.
well you work back from your loads and mechanical stuff to size the amps and motors
the cran will move along the X, up and down the Y and Z in and out with A rotating the forks.
Deech: What are they saying the worst case cycle time needs to be?
Yea. I've got some guys working on that. They are going to tell me what size motors I'll need and then I'll figure out the amps i'll need from there.
sounds multi kW
Yea, it'll be fairly good size.
we'd like it to be fairly quick.
but we haven't determined an exact speed yet.
Quick? One load a minute?
one load every 3-5 minutes, I'd think.
hmm a stacker
1 meter/s plus I would think
what are you thinking there?
am I going to run into a limit somewhere?
just max speed
no...no limit really
the mechanism mass will dominate over the load prob
Yea it will.
moving mass will prob be 1000 kG at least
that doesn't sound completely out of line.
with low friction...
it'll be moving on a rail system
hm... still that's pretty much
that will give about 500 joules of energy to get to speed
cable winch? chain?
the only limit you will hit is how much $ you are willing to spend on motors and drivers
and 500 returned to the servo amp supply to brake it
the design at the moment is using a motor on the lift, which is basically a cart that moves itself up and down a rail.
how accurate does it have to be?
I was thinking the 100'
A company I deal with does positioning with plc's and 3phase motors with resolvers..
well, it needs to be able to place a small pallet and retrieve it accurately from a 12x14 inch cell.
sounds fairly easy
encoder can be rotary with a rack
or a linear one
but very coasre pitch
So, to make things happen, I need the PC with a controller card, breakout boards, amps and the servo motors. is that it?
how well it works depends on the design of the pallets..
les, from http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7500678740
are you talking about putting some sort of encoder linearly along the shelf or rail?
yes you could
hum.. that way it'd be positioning itself relative to the shelf and not relative to it's own rotory encoder..
you could even make one out of a small gear rack and hall sensors
can be on the machine or shelf...or both
hm it dosent really matter, as long as you home it somwhere..
with linear encoders on the shelves you wouldnt have to do that but the cost would skyrocket..
hum. don't want that.
and the performance gain would be negligable..
several ways to make long low cost coarse pitch linear encoders
true enough. as long as you home it, the rotory encoders that can come built onto/into the servos can be used, right?
that's probably the way to go then. no point in making it more complicated
to do positioning with a 3phase motor you need a VFD with thoose capabilities..
somthing like the ones "LUST" in germany sells..
variable frequency drive..
as long as your power transmission is accurate that's fine
they are supposed to be like servos just with gobs of torque..
and more inertia ofcourse..
anonimasu, did you see my links?
who's have a good opinion?
paul_c, anonimasu, gezr, SWPadnos from http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7500678740
that's the spindle design.
I have fresh/new bearings, rated for +21K rpm... so I should be good.
I cant see the dwg now..
I'll check it in a bit going to move myself to a lan party..
is the term "amp" and "driver" used interchangably?
Deech, in this case yes. but Amp is bad... just use driver. :)
Ok. So I'm going to go from my breakout board to my driver to my servo.
AMP is for power... Driver is the control device to power the motor. Computer is used to tell the driver how to control the motor.
the driver then contains the amp or is it a seperate component?
the pinouts from the breakout board are going to be a standard, so any driver I find that can push the servos I'm using should work, right?
I may have to move the wires around a bit, but overall, I mean.
they are similar
you should use differential for all hookups
so each encoder will be 6 signal wires pus supply and ground
differential? Like a gear differential?
sorry, confused for a sec.
differential means that the output is determined by subtacting the signal of the two lines
noise would affect both lines so it cancels
very important to do that
good to do it with things like limit switches too
is that as simple as running two seperate wires from the same point, or is there circuitry involved?
easiest way is to use a differential line driver
it's like a buck...
thanks, by the way, for helping me get the high concept of what's going on. It's interesting how much of the information I find on the interweb seems to assume you know certain things and doesn't make a lot of sense until you do.
and use High flex shielded twisted pair
cool. Well, this gives me a considerable amount to start with. I'm going to run off and get more specific information and maybe come back with more difficult questions later.
ok ask anytime
thanks again for your help everyone. I'm hoping I end up getting to do some good work on EMC and contribute it back.
or, at the very least, have a cool picture to put on the website.
I was getting tired of fumbling with those folding drill bit boxes so I made a wood holder for all bits today just while goofing around
0-60, a-z, 1/64-1/2
more work that one might think to drill all those fitted holes
I used the same diam hole for each 3
I was also looking here at Lloyd's spindle design
what is holding the bearings axially on the shaft?
that would be an issue using a collet extension
could be a pinned collar or something
also I see a problem with bearing mounting
if the extension is say 0.75 diameter...a 0.75 bearing bore might be a poor fit
shaft would need to be about .7503 or so
Or take a pass where ther bearing will be with the knurling tool.
I've used that one for prototyping more than once. :)
I think I would just turn/grind an inch extension down to nearest metric size
like 25mm for 1 inch
17 for .75 in and so on
that is not enough for a collar, but taking much more off would surely warp it
I think surface hardness is prob high...rc50-60 so knurling is out on this one
wonder when Robin will get back from the show...he's supposed to do a bit of snooping for me.
les gettign anxious?
Well yeah actually I am.
Dont ya hate when that happens?
aw I am always anxious about something
les mind if I pick your brain in the meantime?
I want to make (two) self-centering jig for drilling, one for rod stock, another for retangular stock. any ideas or suggestions on where to read on such things?
let me think
I guess I would use a drill bushing and some kind of rh/lh screw thing
moving two v shaped pieces in and out
for the round stock, yeah V's
square too...use the corners
but not rectangular
wait I take that back
Yeah, I was trying to make it a quick-release clamp at the same time
it would work with rectangular too
might be a good product!
I would use one if I had it
even if it had a center punch instead of a drill bushing
you know...spring loaded
you mean just for marking alone?
no drilling involved?
would be quite handy wouldn't it?
drill or punch
Well, let me work on it then, I have some ideas already, just wanted to see or designs to see if I can build a better mousetrap
I have never seen such a thing
write up a sketch and have it witnessed. Date it.
excuse me a moment...
Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
ok I'm back
uh yeah heh
* Jymmm shits on ChanServ
* Jymmm shits on ChanServ
someone was being funny in another channel
I have a few nicks on here
Jymmm is now known as CodesWithIdiots
* CodesWithIdiots waves to les
CodesWithIdiots is now known as Jymmm
I am running paltalk
audio and tv quality video
is that a irc client?
I will prob set up a room
never heard of paltalk before
I need it for videoconferencing cause I don't want to fly to meetings
that works =)
Well 640 480 30fps video and audio real time seems pretty good
cost$...but not much I think
I am just trying it out
my video card can do that... ATI All-in-wonder... I've even broadcasted TV over the internet before
Neither my gf or me can get away from having TV in the corner of the monitor
Jymmm: Use a dual cam for the clamp.. If you rotate them at eth same rate the rect stock will self center.
[20:30:03] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.lloydleung.com/spindle.dwg
this download for anyone?
les, get a high quality webcam. They will do 640*480 @ 30 FPS. But you'll need the pipes to push that data through.
and that is not multicasting... that's single p2p connections.
wonder how multicasting would affect things.
I thikn multicast doesn't affect the source much - it's the routers that fan out the data
so how do I tell the router to do that? I don't deal with that stuff...
but it'd be neat to have it multicast... and let the router handle it.
SWPadnos, that link work?
sorry -sort of here but away (like simultaneous tea and no tea :) )
you need to set up a multicast group - I'm not sure exactly how it works
I believe there are separate IP address blocks set aside for multicast
and the router(s) have to send packets destined for a particular multicast address to all recipients listed for that address
and yes - I was able to download that file, but you should tag it as a binary rather than a text file :)
agh robin not back
I just set up skype voip
skype is free
skype is good
skype works on linux
I think I like it.
heh. look into asterisk if you think you like skype
I am just setting up stuff like skype and paltalk so I don't have to get on planes as much
paltalk 8 just came out with much better quality video
tv quality instead of the previous 10 fps
will check out asterisk too
* paul_c is back
Gawd... Home Depot is useless...
howdy Mr dmess
Jymmm: I dunno, It keaps that lot from growing weeds. :)
Phydbleep weed killer is cheaper
* Phydbleep wonders when cradek usually shows up..
leave him a msg
oh, his nick isn't registered, nm
dmess pondering...What if I said Time = the rate of change of the Perspective
the one your living right now..
But - that would imply that Perspective is the integral of time (plus a constant), ie - doesn't depend on e.g. experience
every thought, word, and deed changes your P and deviates you from the answer
SWPadnos why do you have a lot of different perspectives?
I see many perspectives
depending on what pill you pop?
but the point is that we all experience the same time, but we don't all have the same perspecvive
ok your with me... but you live only 1
negative we DONT experience the same time...
so Perspective would be integral of experience, which is a function of time
work with it...
perspective raries with how close to death you think you are I have found
I�m of the thought that there is Mass � M � Energy � E �. And a Perspective � P
If we're in the same room (or at the same altitude, for the most part), I'd wager that we do experience fundamentally the same time
rather radically I may add
not if one of us is having a stroke!
don't go towards the light
no we havent gotten there thru the same experiensec...
well - that would be experience, wouldn't it ;)
it'd alter your perspective
right - same time, different experience as a function of time
no...experience's must be a function of time as well
I haven't found that to be the case
[19:07]SWPadnosso Perspective would be integral of experience, which is a function of time
SWPadnos ever siphon gasoline tripping on LSD?
never used drugs, thank you
well then you have a most limited perspective
individual, not necessarily limited
the himan mind's main function is to cut down on one's perspective
P ��is like an old acid trip and WOULD/WILL stop ( =1 ) when it is made to do so.
And the only place else is � THE PARTY PLACE YOU LEFT �
Time �. A notion of something OTHER than THIS PERFECTION also being able to exist HERE �..NOW��� ( yeah they said lets screw it up�. )
AS IT WAS THOUGHT IT WAS DEED>>>>
And here we find
there's how many dimensions we can see 4
there's what 14?
i see more than that..
lets face it our perspective naturally sucks
you see more than 4 dimensions?
not if we suddenly realize we create our own P
yes i do fred... i can see inverse time and stats in my melon...
dmess take a picture of this "inverse time and stats" I'd like to see it too
they can take a picture of hallucinations
subjects seem to be able to manifest them on their retnas
i've been working on the origin of it all for years...2 million kilometers in 5 yrs will make you think of alot of things..
we all go 93 million miles every year even if we never get up and 24,000 miles everyday
what are your thoughts on drywall screws to the kneecaps...good one
actually, closer to pi*93 million, or around 300 million miles/year
yeah and so many people feel like they're going noplace all the time strange huh?
I guess they just don't have the right perspective :)
but its elliptical... so we actually speed up and slow down along the way... i feel that sometimes...
talk about ACCELERATION
we're wired not to precieve the inconsequential
although a popular misconception is that what we "see" is what "is"
like for instance i find it hard to wrap my mind around the fact that matter is bound energy I simply don't see solid objects that way
I don't have a problem with that concept
les but does stuff glow like it's about to explode?
no a piece of wood looks like a hunk of wood
on a similar vein most of the wood is hollow!
but it sure looks solid
hmmm no...and it is hard to imagine that there is enough energy in your body to vaporize the earth
but the math convinces me
and Uranium is a matte light grey rock too
yeah but it still doesn't make a rock look anything more than just a rock to me or what it really is
les.. your the math guy in here right??
that and then there's the spectrum chart that one always get ms
gets me even
well I only had a couple courses in modern physics so I am no expert
ok... i see...
yeah you drive and fly how good at physics could you possibly be? :)
les did you get thru thermal dynamics?
Do you mean Thermodynamics?
we akll have to take thermo but
SWPadnos I dont want a thermos you silly goose!
I also had to take some modern physics
they don't make real thermos bottles anymore do they?
not good ones... SS
glass with vacuum?
les: How many steps per rev for your drives if you use steppers?
styrofoam thermos bottles suck
Modern as in relativity, quantum physics, and the like, or modern as in quantum entanglement of photons?
If you just say "there is no ether" I used to be able to derive special relativity
Hey.... they do --> http://www.thermos.com/thermos/cfm/prodDetail.cfm?pg=1&id=222&z=z
les: Max then for the stuff you use.
special rel is easy dude.. ive done it...
Jymmm yeah they're the only ones that work
I use servos. Servos have been the norm for industrial stuff for 20 years or so.
just say NO...
pfred1 I loved my SS one... had a handle, big cup, and a flip-up spout.
Special rev is not too hard
europe is building a huge collider
pfred1 if it's not SS, forget it. the others are really really cheap. One drop and it's gone.
they'll probably make something that'll suck up the planet or something
I have been to our biggest one
the one in 3 states that we deep sixed?
no, the one near Chicago
the one that mught have kept us competitive in pure science?
but the bean counters were to oshort sighted
i HAD to one day... There i was.. i though i was gonna DIE....140' up ... ON Tow... IN a thermal thats twisting my paraglider into a bag a drag...
* Phydbleep has not seen 'pure' science in this country in 20+ years.. 99.9% of it is how much money can we make off of this...
Jymmm: I was allowing for a 0.1% error. :)
so i thoght i could see me walking away from this mess.... and i did.. NO luck involved
I don't know. I had dinner with Leon Lederman Of fermilab once when I was in the Chicao chapter of the society of r&d directors
luck is just not knowing all the data
and if WE gould harness the remainin .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% and make it true... it would win over
I guess he discovered the top quark
dmess : "Please place your head firmly between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye"
dmess What, you think this is Star Trek or something!?!?!?!? =)
I never did science...just engineering
anyone remember "Mr Wizard" on tv?
that was cool
I got a book by him
yeah well the rec WAS still out for my BOUNCABILITY factor.. when it happened
Mr. Wizard's Science Experiments
hell I remember howdy doody
or some such
if it wasnt' for Mr Wizard, I wouldn't be the pyro I am today!
Jy... not at all
I made gunpowder and rockets and such when I was a teen
Mr Green Jeans
Jymmm this is for you http://www.armory.com/~spcecdt/pyrotech/doap/
les I've wanted to make gun powser
les how volitile during the process?
not much...you grind it in a ball mill
don't people work gunpowder wet?
I shoot black powder guns a bit
look up the anarchists cookbook on googl... theres timers and everyting.
the anarchists cookbook is a scam
naw there are books on making gunpowder
dmess I tell ya what... you go order it for me and I'll pay you for it
Les ever shoot a 30" longbol arrow out of a weak charg??
I just buy black powder now
no its a d/l boy
dmess fien, you d/l it and then send it to me
I made some pretty good rockets though. We used "micrograin" ...zinc dust and sulphur
its a .txt file started way back... anyone remember Captain Crunch???
the ceral guy?
that's Cap'n Crunch
I talked to some guy who claimed to have put a rocket into orbit
You see back then The U.S. army published a book on how to make rockets
les ok, so what are the basic components?
what black powder?
Whistles....yeah.. the cerial guys whistle was the tole free tone for at&t i believe it was...
75% potassium nitrate
Jymmm what you really want is TNT
is it potassium nitrate or ammonium nitrate that's used for bombs? (iirc the later)
no.... not on a nice old weapon
pfred1 nah, where's teh fun it that?
I really just want to make fireworks =)
ammonium nitrate... fertilizer and diesel fuel...
ammonium nitrate, citric acid and disel
Welcome to the Pyro Purity Test! http://www.armory.com/~spcecdt/pyrotech/pyrotest.html
ammonium nitrate Is a high explosive that detonaes
i mined for 5 yrs and used all of that on a daily basis.. :
black powder just burns
dmess you'd do well on the test then
AMMEX... you blow it in with an air hose... looks like loose styrofoam beads..
For rockets we looked for high specific impulse....BP and similar are very poor
oh man, I forgot all about flash powder
i was known as the MASTER of disaster.... FIRE in the hole
need very low molecular weight
mess is makin muck..
flash paper is very very cool
lithium nitrate and aluminum are common
used in the shuttle srbs
i like mag as a solid fuel ...
remember...I am an aerospace engineer by education.
in another chan they're all into making thermite
les... im workin on the l/g for the new fx7
does anyone know who created the BDI's?
no one will admit to it
i want to drop a name to give some credit in my report...
he is here
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When friends see you running away from something, do they drop everything and run away too without asking questions?
yea, but is he awake?
* paul_c runs like the wind
pemmet I hear this guy is responsible http://website.lineone.net/~nashtheslash/index1.htm
* pemmet waves at paul as he fades into the distance
i have a t shirt.. im a bomb tech... if im running... keep up....
Oh man, that question is just too funny...
no questions asked... jusr run as fast as you can!
I just shoot black powder in my civil war pistols
and I am working on a Hawken rifle too
ppl who know me .. have Perspective of the CHITE of lived thru... my dad says my cat had kittens and im workin on their lives... ; )
we just shoot them on new yrs eve... ; )
I counted about 20 kittens from stray cats here last year
I don't know where they all go
away I guess or I would be up to my knees in cats
anytime in the summer there are kittens somewhere in the barn
I only have one cat...and he has one pet chicken.
my cat is from chicago...and he is 16 years old.
And he really does have this one chicken that follows him everywhere
looks REALLY silly
les send me that pic... my daughter dont believe me... ; )
can you dcc?
that so cool.... ; )
It was a good shot
took it a few days ago
they sleep together on the porch
wow your grass is green... ; )
yup real green
mine is still brown
yup..penguins are mating
les me too, I'm not sure if I can dcc though
The soul has no time for technology.
les: Put it on your web site..
I will...that was a lucky shot I guess
dcc to jymmm...
ooops, hold on a sec...
try one more time please
cancel. I see the request but think it's being blocked. I'll wait till you post it
I tried to put in on the blog but it seems to be broken
web server has phpblogger but it is screwed up
dont ya hate it when that happens
can't seem to get my mic to work on skype today either
was trying to set up some comms tho shanghai
I use line in from a mixer on the card
skype does not like that
c/me goes "Woohoo!"
* Phydbleep goes "Woohoo!"
no mic in?
yes have mic in
les muteded ?!
what sound driver?
* dmess says why
try other channels too
"Woohoo!" I just scored enough 12mm rubber matting to floor the shop. :)
les is this in Linux or Windows?
but I use line in froma professional shure mic and 267 mixer
yee haa... 12 mm underfoot
rubber matting is good
usually expensive though
my knees know rubber when it feels it
I need some
les: I scored a bunch of free stuff... It's the remnants from a health club install. :)
my workers get tired from standing on the slab concrete floor
I do too
bah piffle make you tough
wooden platforms help a little..
les: Check with the fitness equipment places.. That's where I scored this.
yeah lots of them places scams they get a buncha memberships then skip town watch for that
They had a big pile of odd pieces outside that are perfect for walkways/mats.
we often spend a 10 hour day standing on hard concrete slab
or people just into huge jigsaw puzzles
put inserts into your shoes
Invert gravity and work on the ceiling. :)
really really good inserts
be gelling like Magellen
* Phydbleep tries to remember where les is at.
I hire retired people for workers...thet need to be comfortable
heh put hooks in the ceiling and hang them by their suspenders
what do you mean you want to leave?
hang around a little more!
les: Where are you at? They're going to call me in a month or so when they do the yearly re-mat at one of the clubs..
we bought one dude WITH the machine....it was the ONLY machine he could run... we chased the NUTS contract cuz he knew that job... ; )
I am in extreme NE georgia in the mountains
long as it isn't out of the Sweating to the Oldies room
* Phydbleep wonders what it would cost to get a pallet to les..
the old factories in chicago had end grain oak floors
kinda like butcher block
* Phydbleep refuses to get a bunch of stamps, a huge stack of envelopes and a pair of scissors..
is recycled carpet underpadding foam that expensive?
I don't know
WOW... i'll drive down for some floors... ; )
This is the solid rubber running/exercise mats.
you know that multicolored stuff?
be easy to pick up to clean too
I think machine oils would rot it
coolant might just EAT it though
pfred1: It takes 3 or 4 layers of that to equal 1 layer of this..
yeah but do you need all that cushioning?
well I want my workers to be comfortable
pfred1: the machine is bolted to the floor? YES.
not so comfortable that they get sleepy though
you havent got a cracked vert obviously..
no cracked vert...
god I hope not!
but sometimes I send a worker home to take a 1 hour catnap
c5 and l7&l8
a quarter oz bag of crystal meth goes a long way towards greater productivity
Ah.. The shooting numbness down the arms.. I know it well.
and places do that
l's were from 18 yrs ago... C is from 3 yrs ago..
numbness is in my legs... was told to go pick a wheelchair i liked in 1988
I have a choice of either mexicans or retired people for workers hers
you shooting for being the next Steven Hawkings?
but too dumb to lay down
no SH is in a legue of his own... but it might be an interesting Experience...to add to my perspective.
when people say to me "oh my back hurts" my replys is "Oh, you mean it's not supposed to?"
My doc has the same C troubles as me... so when i go in .. its just a .. chat and drug swap...LOL
pfred1: Haul my lathe 50feet by yourself and see how your back feels.
pain it's all in your mind
how heavy is your lathe?
nope mines in my back
chainblock and cables work for me...
pfred1: 700+ for the lathe or the table.. Your nuts would be in your shoes...
I move my 700 pound mill around
but it's on casters
This was all on dirt and up stairs.. By myself..
oh i put it up onto it's stand myself
we pulled my buddy's forging hammer 45' off the truck & into the shop
but i used a chain lift on a gantry
I just dragged a 210 pound piece of reairoad track out of the mud the other day though
I used a cherry picker (fold-up engine hoist) to get this one off the floor and onto the table.
yeah for me engine hoist was out of the question no room for it
so I made a gantry
I went for the foldable so i could assemble it in place. :)
it was a little spooky welding the stand i made for it being under it while it was hanging there
dont bee frightened little soldier ... just burn it
my engine hoist isn't foldable but it's dissassemblable
good thing because each piece seems to have good weight to it
Now I've got to go unload all this matting out of the truck.. :\
plastic tarp on the bottom... tied to back shed... pull forward... unloaded... ; )
No way to back up to it.. Wheelbarrow time.
ot shed down one of the two
Time for bed..
G'nite paul_c :)
man this is like the worst movie ever made
hey in my infinite stupidity.. i burned an iso of a dvd... but nere wont let me bun an image to dvd only cdr... why?? anyone have any ideas??
quit fiddling around with Nero and use growisofs
but my 42 bdi installs killed my 2nd burner
I have a new theory on computer hardware myself anymore now i buy the cheapest stuff I can my logic with this is as follows
the cheapest must also be the best
why is it the best? well they must be the best at making it if they can offer it at the lowest possible price
come frome the same chinese factory
and hey if I'm wrong it's always cheap to replace :)
but honestly it hasn't been the case
I got the cheapest CD burner I could find and it kicks ass!
nothing cheap is good.. and nothing cheap is good
good is cheap...
that hasn't been my experience i used to buy all Plextor drives this one'[s better than a Plextor
this company used to make the drives for Plextor in fact
im going tobed... fingers are having an epileptic fit of sorts and my dylexia is kickin' in