wow ... it sounds like the new version of MS Office features some pretty advanced technology
apparently .. get this ...
it can sort emails by subject, sendor or date.
I know ...
hard to believe
are you saying that I could change the order in which the messages are listed?
[00:03:45] <robin_sz> http://m3.doubleclick.net/790463/PID_30890_mrs04108_info_728x90.gif
boy - that's better than pine 0.97b
(or was that 0.09b?)
pretty advanced these MS guys ...
perhaps they get help from aliens??
wow - hold on, let me click this header in Mozilla... :)
I was trying to think of a half decent mail package that *couldnt* do that ...
I mean .. even emacs can do that
do you use Evolution (or mozilla or something else)?
MS Office XP?
no - I wonder if it can do that :)
well, to find out,
I wonder what they mean by "automatically"
I;d have to open up Outlook
and I'm not *that* stupid :)
like - I'm thinking of a subject - put the related emails at the top of the list
perhaps they have discovered threading?
on Windows - impossible
(even for them)
of mail messages I meant
oh - that
you mean like Mozilla?
I just found it amusing they could use such a basic feature in an advert
one day I'll have to set up the internal linux server with IMAP
apt-get install courier
I now have a fixed IP, so I'll be able to get mail remotely a bit easier
courier - I'll look into that
courier-imap - Courier Mail Server - IMAP server
courier-imap-ssl - Courier Mail Server - IMAP over SSL
I only remember Cyrus
oh yeah - and the UW IMAP server
courier is pretty stable
Presumably if I re-sync a laptop before traveling, there won't be a ton of data to move while I'm traveling
so I'd still ned fetchmail or one of those to get mail from our ISP and put it into the local mail store
why not just delete all your mail with a script?
because I'd like to read it :)
but you are using fetchmail ...
not at the moment
have you used it before?
right now we have several computers (running Windows unfortunately), and we download mail to our individual machines
it randomly retrieves and then loses
I haven't used it, but I did some research on this subject a few years ago
its part of its core functionality
thats the defualt setting, I dont think you can turn it off
maybe I was thinking of popmail or something like that
like "get mail from a pop server, and then route it locally"
pop goes the weasel.
poop goes the weasel
on your lawn?
in the lawn, I think :)
do we even have weasels this far north?
what about politicians?
maybe a stoat?
but many politicians are lawyers as well.
they're not as weasel-like this far north
you can tell a stoat from a weasel ...
I don't even know what a stoat is.
must be a brit thing
one is weasely recognised ...the other is stoatly different
its , well,
like a weasel
[00:18:47] <robin_sz> http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=stoat&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
heh - so, do you think a dual PPro Overdrive 333 system is fast enough to serve email for 2 users, plus a CVS server :)
running *nix yes
running 'doze ...
I do subscribe to Linux-Kernel, so the mail load is that of a mid-sized company :)
yes - I'll let Gentoo compile for a week to get that extra millisecond of mail delivery performance :)
we bought a dell server once ...
the rep wanted to know what we wanted it for ...
"web server, mail server, some custom apps, DNS, etc"
"about 2 million mails a month"
so we picked their smallest server .. which they assured us was not at all suited .. etc
and its been happiliy running at about 10% cpu load for years
yep - 2M/month = 1 every 1.2 seconds
I'd hope a computer with 3-digit CPU speed could handle that
Gotta love *nix
(or higher than 3 digits)
apache on a old 486 can fully pump a T1 anyway
I'm using a Celeron 700 for everything right now
thi smachine is dual 1ghz P3s
I was just looking at a review of Opteron boards and their gigabit performance - *wow*
and a gb of ram .. it rocks for us ...
Plus, if I tried to have my entire mp3 collection on 'doze, it'd choke
just bought another dell for the rack ..
only 16G here, so Win2k can handle it
512MB for me - seldom do I get above the halfway mark
a dula 3ghz emt64 Xeon box
(16G of MP3 that is)
About 60G of mp3'z here
and all legal here :)
I had an illegal MP2, but then I found the album on eBay
MP3, that is
My legal portion is about 20G - Ogg Vorbis, baby!
I'd love to do that - I need to fix my damned portable first
I did a demo for some people once, of some application software, mod_perl on Apache ... had I think 6 clients on hired in PCs in a conference room ..
they all were impressed with the performance,
and being windows weenies expected to see a server ..
* asdfqwega queues up Apoptygma Berzerk
but it was all on my laptop :)
(got Hunker Down playing right now)
a friend of min had a Tadpole ...
now .. that was cute
Tadpole .. the Sparc laptop
[00:31:30] <robin_sz> http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/html/
fscking expensive though
I so much wanted to get an Alpha system, but I couldn't afford it until they were cancelled
heh - wouldn't one of those piss off my next customer :)
but why would they have a 17" LCD at 1280x1024?
we tried to get a deal on some ex UK gov 16 proc alpha boxes
that should be 1400x1050 at least
wow - look at their major promotion!
not for Sun people
charge only $1995 of the laptop on your credit card, and pay the rest over....
the Sparcle is their entry level machine
much cheaper than the rest
I was looking at the dual bullfrog :)
perhpas most telling is they have options for offering financeing deals to government departments
they are THAT expensive
yes "defense and government computers" ...
i think my friends one was worht �30K
well, thats what it cost anyway
big difference there
but all their products ran on solaris
so it was a demo necessity
I actually have an ebay link to an Alpha CPU-related products search
a beroser link to ebay, that is
only 11 items now
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
* Jymmm is now known as Jymmm
nevyn_ is now known as nevyn
* alex_joni is around on and off
hm, I just bought every PWM module the plc manufacturer could produce
middle ofnext week
it's pretty cool :)
got a link?
* alex_joni is building another wire feeder
no gecko this time :(
there isnt anything about the module..
hehe the company we deal with sells servos..
LUST I think is the brand
lust is german for fun/keen smthg like that
[07:33:14] <anonimasu> http://www.lust-antriebstechnik.de/
sigbi have an emc-filter ;)
going to do some work
I am too
so what are doing today?
I'm gonna make a poker table with a buddy.
hmm... seems like jymm hasn't been arond for a little bit.
I haven't heard incredibly silly ideas. :)
anonimasu, you know what I mean though?
* anonimasu nods
the only bad thing is that he kills discussions with comments like that..
I need to purchase a DA300 collet for 3mm
[08:08:05] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.hardingetooling.com/PartSpec.asp?ID=18910017030000
anonimasu, when you buy endmills, do you buy them in metric?
yeah, since I am in sweden :)
k, do you have knowledge how much 1mm dia 3mm shank endmills would cost?
about 200 - 300 sek..
or could you call your supplier and find out?
what's that in Euros or US $, or CDN$?
the carbide ones are 60eur each
fine... but that still doesn't justify 10x my cost.
the gh�ring ones I use are about the same..
[08:14:24] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.cetdirect.com/
I'm gonna order like $200USD from these guys... and I'll see how well they perform. They manufacture their own endmills.
1mm dia x 3mmshank = $6.00USD.
[08:15:08] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.cetdirect.com/static/Articles/pdf/articles/CET2001.pdf
if I break 10!!! that's like breaking one dormer.
dang. And I'm SURE the dormer is not going to last 10x longer than one of the CETs. Maybe 3x... but definitely not 10x.
[08:16:15] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.cetdirect.com/static/Articles/pdf/articles/CET2001.pdf
it lasted 10x longer then my cheapo endmills ;)
but thoose werent sharpened properly..
I don't think that these are cheapo carbides.
resharpened stuff? eew.
but they werent sharp to begin with..
sharpened from factory wrong?
oh... who manufactured those?
next time I buy somthing like that i'll bring a dormer one with me to the store ;)
I only have indexable lathe crap... or I sharpen my own HSS.
if they try to feel how sharp they are they'll cut their thumb off..
I love my dormer center drills.
that's about how different they are
I bought these cheap things... and they broke after two drills.
I only buy dormer because we have a dealer we deal lots with at work..
use the dormer... still sharp after lots of drills.
that's still expensive... but i can understand that your importing from states to Sweden... so shipping is gonna increase dramaticaly.
the other endmills I just bought at a hardware store
oh that's not the issue.. good endmills are expensive :)
good carbide inserts are expensive.
the cheap ones I bought was like 500sek for 10..
I have these DCMG series... and they cost $10-12USD each...
I could buy seco aswell but thoose are super expensive
thought I've only got through like maybe 4, in two years... with fairly heavy use.
not production, but for a hobbiest.
[08:20:51] <anonimasu> http://www.secotools.com/template/start.asp?id=1927
I like my iscar... but that's the best i have to compare anything to.
I don't like valenite too much... doesn't have enough stuffness.
I have no idea what a iscar is
iscarr / iscar some isreali brand of machine tools. Very very highquality stuff.
like a bloody carbide indexable bit from them can go $30-50CDN/each... a simple lathe tool, could cost $200+
ah that's not loads..
about the same as seco..
although for hobby it's hefty..
[08:24:45] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.iscar.com/
they gots lots of stuff.
oh yeah... very expensive for a hobbiest.
I have a neightbour that has a nice lathe, but shit tools... so he can't accomplish much with his lathe. heh. But he's too cheap to buy good tools.
so what do I do... I bring my tools over there to use on his lathe, and he sees the difference immediately.
* anonimasu sighs now if I just could get a BT taper into my spindle..
I have a morse taper..
you still want that tool changer don't you?
and I hate hitting on the drawbar..
well... that's the standard proceedure.
yeah but I dont like it :)
hm, no way to get anything like that in htere
maybe a special drawbar..
but grinding the inner of the retainer would be hard..
if not impossible..
[08:32:45] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.robotic-accessories.com/Pro_Too.htm
[08:33:20] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.ati-ia.com/products/toolchanger/robot_tool_changer.aspx
only problem is that it eats up your table space.
the actual changing isnt the trouble it's getting the tool out of the machine..
I just showed you some products.
looking at them now
hm, I might have a idea..
although it requires machining a huydralic cylinder..
large area short stroke..
i'd made an adapter to a CAT30 system.
[08:36:10] <A-L-P-H-A> http://science.howstuffworks.com/question341.htm
how large are CAT30?
way too larget :/
googled for it
what's your limit?
er25 is the collet..
it's a small morse taper..
anonimasu, is this just for kicks? or actually for production use?
just for kicks ;)
all production I can do will be done with a single endmill..
err I'll be doing
oh! know how some lathe drawbars work?
it's like a clamp, and a spindle
each tool has it's own collet.
k, the collets just push up into the spindle. and are held in place by pressure from underneigth
but the spin is allowed because of a bearing.
back to sleep
want to see a drawing of what I had in mind?
ah well some other time
* Jymmm hears aluminum rusting!
checking emails before breakfast
I had to shut down yeaterday evening to to bad storms
my UPS battery is shot and the computer won't stay on if the power flickers
must rplace it
well off to breakfast
I am looking at rs232 voltage level converter's..
for hacking my usb serial port..
oh 3 to 5v?
so I get real specs.. for the signals..
but I am trying to find a schematic..
not hard to do
prob many chips made for that
or just use some 339 comparators or something
I have a too low voltage for running certaing things on the port..
* paul_c thought rs232 was +/-12V
hm.. the usb ports dosent give that much power :)
I honestly don't know
atleast that's what I think is the error..
but 3 to +/-12 is no big deal either
anon...many usb ports do not give the full current spec
mine dosent but I think it's the adapter that wont push more current out the port..
max232 includes a carge pump to provide the 12V supplies
(add a 'h' where appropriate)
that should do it...
just solder it to the tx and rx pins..
usb has ptc thermistors usually to drop the voltage if too much current is requested
I have a usb power outlet also..
for more power.. if I need it..
although I've yet to see a connector for it..
but I guess it could be done..
I had to use an external supply with these labjack usb stepper things I made
usb was not enough for NEMA 17 steppers
heh dont you need loads of current for steppers..
but these are for use specifically with laptops
thet often can only put out 10 ma or so
I had to run the steppers at close to an amp
might be a reason
The labjack and step multiplier run from usb power though
yeah but that's just a ic isnt it?
anyway I need to work a bit
enjoy your breakfast
just TTl levels
hm does anyone have experience machining acrylics?
no - but I can tell you about RS-232 :)
it's less important ;)
of course :)
well I'll try it.. it'll solve itself eventually
how's it going?
Going fine, I think
asdf-meep is now known as asdfqwega
Darn... Just realised.. 12 days to go.
Yes and I have two PCB designs to finish before the show...
It is rushing up on us.
reckon I'll still be writing notes on the plane over..
it seems liek I can fit a toolchanger..or a homebuilt drawbar..
there's a adaptor on the mill somthing > er32
Is there any program which can represent the emc2 hal configuration (structure) in an X graphical screen?
jmk had talked about using gEDA, but that is a sledgehammer to crack a peanut in my opinion.
is there any schematic about the relation of the emc2 modules? .'cause it is easier to understand what relation there are among each files/modules.
I think jmk had some diagrams on his home page, but I don't have a URL for it..
[14:35:45] <stevestallings> http://home.att.net/~jmkasunich/EMC_Docs/EMC_Control_LG.gif
that's a great graphic - thanks.
The thanks go to John Kasunich who, sharing our flustration, decided to try to diagram the flow even though he did not claim to fully understand it.
well - it clarifies some things that were perplexing to me, so I like it :)
There probably should be some likns between the RT and non-RT I/O sctions, but otherwise it looks pretty good.
links, that is
though those can technically go from emcio up to the task controller, and back down to the RT side
thanks, that is it
now this is my best wallpaper :)
I was just exploring corner slow down in segmentqueue
this is a must at high speeds
but it could be done by a cam program rather than the controller
whats it look like??
however most don't
hm mastercam does ;)
post could but look ahead would be better
well segmentqueue has no corner slowdown unless it happens to be the end of a set of linked segments
yeas anon mastercam does have that
does seg que keep current pos'n registry
les: could you do somthing like
if ( corner(seg[x+2]) == TRUE ) decrease_feed();
or would you need or well x+somthing depending on the need for lookahead..
you can calculate how much lookahead you need depending on the speed you run at
could you chk the vecto from current to last and current to next pon's to see if its acute or obstuse
well corner slowdown in general looks ahead for acutness of corner angles....
and calculates chordal error
given a max allowed chordal error
a fairly simple c program could add slowing to existing g code programs
I think fairly simple
it's the parsing of all allowed gcode formats that is a bit of busy work
vary speed proportionatly to the degree of acutness and come back inversly..
but adding points and different feeds to slow down before a corner would be easy
but having a decent high speed algirithm in the system would be nice..
speed is inverse square to chordal error
well if it is post processing the g code it could be done before even loading
i studied uder Dr. Momuchi from Toshiba Japan...
should the controller do it?
what did you study dmess
we should be able to feed G code with max feeds to the machine and it NOT destoy itself TRYING to do what it cant...
yes I think the controller should do that..
* anonimasu nods
well it would require an ini entry
their weapon of choice in Japan for HSM is a 3mm ballnose..
max chordal error or something
really a cam system cannot do it time optimally
anyone ever use APT??
because it does not know tha accel of the machine
I have not used apt
les with the mastercam thing you enter corner G's and things
and max accelerations..
although it's not somthing us humans can afford to run ;)
anyway if segmentqueue ends up fixed and functional...
imagine a cylinder of tolerance ,(outol) radius from last to current.. then to next
corner slowing is absolutely required to do efficient highspeed machining
is it addable??
mastecam and I think visualmill have corner slowing
dmess: yes it is
a corner test....
and using existing feed over ride
any good postprocessor..can add it to g-code but it makes posting time intensive..
I hm, yeah
no I take that back...feed overrides don't happen till the next set of linked segments
which is often the whole program!
existing feed overide is NOT a HSM function.. machine ist necessaily cutting perfect part optimally.
well...I must have corner slowing from somewhere
ideally HSM module should accept feedback from spindle..
yes for constant chip load
chip load gets too low in a slowdown
but as long as it cuts
one would not want to slow down the whole program to that speed
right... but spindle speed should drop tp keep chip load constant..
often not practical though...many spindles are high inertia and going at 20,000+ rpm
I think the easiest way to make a corner slowing postprocessor (not in the control)
the F-mach min. speed was 8000 went to 60000 and it sang and danced.
would be to use the emc stand alone interpreter
and have cannonicals write extra blocks to the g code file
Toshiba 888 - Shape module
8000 to 60000 wow
but the you need to support WHO's g-code as input??
feed to 4 m/min
the emc interpreter will read many formats
hm that dosent sound too fast..
throw it into the motion control.. and let the machine be an HSM control outta the shed...
That's the work when making a parser...dealing with abbreviations, case, order, all the things allowed in rs274
emc's interpreter does a pretty good job
the control still has to deal with it I think a parser would just be a hack
well it would be a separate program completely
hence the question of whether the control should do it
if we deal with it from th motion control side it makes No change to the front
It seems to me that the slowing algorithm would have to look a certain *distance* ahead, not a specific number of segments
since the machine accel determines the distance needed to change speed
yes swp that is right I think
and then it just (famous last word :) ) becomes a matter of choosing an accel slope at the right time
so a toerane bubble could be used to establis vector and detemine traj & speed change requirements.
it would need to do corner checks BEFORE segment linking and calculate time to the next critical corner
well if one number...
max chordal deviation would be it I think
segment linking == grouping segments that should have a smooth contour between them?
versus segments that describe eg. a corner (a disjoint)?
ok..splining... per say..
conventional s-curve stuff blends individual segments one at a time...so...
OK - the differnece between a smooth node and a corner node in a bezier or such (in Corel Draw)
checking for inflections and adjusting for them
it requires 4 pt look ahead for cubic
what that means is the cubic coefficients change after each waypoint
do we have 4 pt look ahead in seg que
segmentqueue is a bit more sophisticated as I understand it
yes - the coefficients area window that gets shifted through the segments (sort of)
how about carrying nurb info instead??
it can find a cubic that covers multiple segments without changing coefficients
by some heuristic
segmentqueue look ahead sometimes can be the entire program
that seems non-optimal :)
but it's possible
so the first derivative of the rates of change would give inflections as )
segmentqueue is not time optimal
it shouldn't need to look further than the second point after the endpoint of the current segment
well depending on the spline order
order+1 total points needed
no look ahead as far as possible... but process what you've looked at to be optimized...
right now queue size is coded to be max 500
but it can be changed
say you worked from kinematics BACKWARDS...
dmess brings up a point I should mention:
set max accel/decel to 1.5 G
it seems segmentqueue is only good for trivial kinematics
i'll take it!!
use motion control to GET 1.5 G out of the machine... NOT the postprocessors...
mine is max 1g
I derate to .5
1g is just where it runs out of force
dont get me wrong ive made pretty good $$ writing posts for folks... but trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear is difficult..
i doubt your machine experiences anywhere near 1 G
No where near dmess
the old TP will not permit it
it would tear the machine to peices
we had a machine capabe of doing orbital boring...and it WOULD do 2 G and it was SCARRY...
I'd love to see my Bridgeport do 1G
it's on wheels at the moment :)
Everyone wanted to see it run... but they would run in fear as it stated up
however it has 2200 lbforce on x axis at max amp current
and is built to take that force
although it doesn't do it any good...
Ig is 386 in/sec^2....
few can run past about 50 without severe hurky jerkies with the old TP
segmentqueue is meant to cure that
higher speeds and shorter segments combine to forma real problem in trajectory planning
so its a buffer of sorts??
dmess: it is just a trajectory plan where velocity always has a derivative
now that makes sense to me, but I need to look at the code to see why it has to look so far ahead
SWP: it does not have to to give velocity a derivative
it makes for smoother direction changes
It was just the philosophy of the code
well if the change in that derivatve is large it should slow down next seg
See with the old trapezoidal planner each segment had a velocity discontinuity
it is large bcz it is being smoothed and as such it should be slowed down
segment being a G-code piece, or a servo update cycle piece?
so eachsegment accel would max out
talk about shaky...
segment being a g-code piece
Given that you know the current velocity and the expected velocity of the next segment, you know the velocity difference
Knowing how long it will take to get to that point, you now know the acceleration needed to make it happen
or use inverse time from there
You can then use a slowly changing acceleration to get there "smoother"
there are specific calcs for the initial, final, and end zone conditions
but then you need to balance the errors in requested contouring velocity with the requested endpoint position
yes cubic means accel is bounded
that's the PITA to me
this is done by solving a 6x6 matrix
its ALL calculateable...
but it is diagonal
yess all caculable
even quintic and beyond
eng 2nd language classes later today
I'll need to look back at my math books :)
OT: linear force = T * 2 * pi / lead, right?
yeah SWP I have to open my old robotics text from engineering school to see the trap, cubic, and quintic solutions
I can get my mother involved if necessary (but I'd rather not :) )
ah let's see... yeah
my connet died..
if the slope change between any 3 pts is =< slopechange of current pt and imaginary pt at distance tolerance away from current in front and behind go fast if not slow down
I hate when that happens
the router locked up and still isnt online
behind shouldn't matter except for planning.
wait - scratch that - the current value is an amalgamation of all previous planning, and should be able to be the start point for any accel calculations
(but I could be wrong :) )
yee haa... dmess just got confirmation of a new contract with Messier-Dowty Aerospace... ; )
hmmm miller welding called...may have to do some stuff for them
anyway...SWP: here is an ok paper on TP
[16:46:46] <les> http://batman.mech.ubc.ca/~ial/publication/theses/sonja.pdf
also Rogier Blom's paper is on SF emc as well
thanks, les - I'll read later
* SWPadnos is on the phone
lunch for me
anyone here use the vital systems board?
kris_jensen: what do you want to know?
well, i'm fumbling around looking for the source or a prebuilt vitalmod.o
kris do you have a vital card?
ya i have the card
and i modoified the test program to get the motors and encoders working
motors on a bench?
so i know the hardware is sound
ya at the moment
currently I think one cnc is operational with the motenc
so you might be number two
in the whole world
Last I heard yeah
is there an operational motor driver prog?
but the price is very attractive
I think the motenc is driving copley amps
ya, the card is nice and inexpensive
570 is better than 888
only thing i wonder about is what are the xilinx chips doing
who knows heh
becuase this is a rather simple board, i have worries about fgpa's doing too much
bleh can't type fpga
is it pci?
might do pci decoding & such
Just so it can do 2000+ servo updates/sec
i think there was a pci-pci chip on there
is there a version check prog or file for emc?
les I was reading your post... can you really use a dc motor from a treadmill as a servo?
not sure about version check...I use a year old build that I have changed somewhat
jymm...I think so within limits
inertia might be higher
and cogging a bit grater
les Oh, you haven't tried it yet?!
just so it is bidirectionel
I have used treadmill motors with encoders
over 5 years ago
some are better than others
am i correct in assuming the vital.c is the vital system card driver? if so, are there directions on compiling it ?
some treadmills use Pac Sci servos!
oh, didn't know that.
Someone here can tell you (not me) Paul_c can help you out
ya i see his name all over the source, ill leave him a message, thanks
kris_jensen: what bdi d you have?
where do i find the version?
on the iso you burned?
did you install the latest debian based?
let me put the disk in, coulnd't find a file heh
yes i did
im back... had to go register the business name again..
might not have vital working then.. give me a minute to check
theres a 4.18 and a 4.2
kris_jensen: bdi-4.18 is the latest
kris_jensen: checking now for vital stuff on it
kris_jensen: do you have the sources
no, but i'm looking at the cvs atm. I will grab them when i get back from lunch
make sure you look at the bdi-4 branch in CVS
[18:00:19] <alex_joni> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_Install
BDI-4.20 is the latest, I think
[18:00:40] <dmess> http://www.messier-dowty.com/programs/787.asp
... this new contract should lead to an exciting year...
I even have it on my mirror
* alex_joni is tired
excellent, thanks ale
i even used his mirrir.. ; )
dmess: is that a different name for the 7E7?
thank paul_c, as he is the one that did all the great work
ill grab the code and get a working compile working here
dmess: how did it work?
yes you do - and I have it on mine as well :)
IT was fine... GRUB sucks... bites is a pile a poop...
was talking about the download though :D
SWP.. not sure isnt that the cargo 777
i prorammed the upper and lower torsion members for the 777
thats spais for yes
* alex_joni cancells his flights
I did the cockpit annunciator optics
heh - my mother does neural net stuff for Goodrich - they have some 7E7 contracts I think
What a "crash" program heheh
i hear ya...LOL
I recall many many overnighters
I swore never to work on a Boeing subcontract again.
i was sub=ing for a place 150 miles away... made it there n 69 minutes one night...
all associative apt... writhe with Q-edit...
and quite a while ago
written even.. as you see with ym typing apt syntax rules were a biatch
SWP: so you know see the ins and outs of trajectory planning?
fun stuff eh?
till spmeone loses an eye... or the grey matter starts to ooze onto the floor and mix with the coffee
cuz those stains'll never come out..
heh it's all fun to me
There is only one thing I cannot understand about the segmentqueue
(until I get some paying work)
why was it not done in user space?
I haven't read those papers yet - is the plane ride to Fest too late? :)
hats user space??
noy real time
segmentqueue is done in real time...and I do not understand why
user = non-kernel, but not necessarily non-realtime
I stand corrected
if im understanding you then userspace COULD be used to pre-process parsed movements in order to feed seg-que and the r/t system a kinematically mapped version of what it sees now
that's doable, but requires consideration of pause/resume functionality
I wondered about that too....
pause.resume is a r/t adventur...
Rogier used max feed overide value for all calculations
So it would seem it could be valid (but sub optimal) to use lesser values during thre run
it's also planner related, since the velocities are changed by pausing
pause should be deines as a pseudo-e/stop
in any case, you still need to account for a new acceleration profile once the machine has stopped
I use pause a great deal
yes...why.. use an m00
so you'd have to recalculate the next X segments when you resume, then it would fit with the precalculated profile
as it was meant to be used.. i use 2 m00
I'm thinking of user pause / resume - like a big yellow button on a pendant
its a feed hold.. or lets screw up a good part button...
OK - whatever you want to call it :)
Rogier seems to indicate that if max overide feed is used in the initial calculations then the queue won't have to be recalculated with a lesser feed
dropping feed using feed overide is easier to save a good looking part
right - you can always scale down, but you'll be limited by machine capabilities if you want to scale up
and scaling down would depart further from being time optimal
but it is not time optimal anyway
but you'll be scaling down stuff you want kept @ max...for sake of the slowest corner
no - his calculations probably don't take cutting force into account - they would be what the machine is theoretically capable of
Last I checked a feed over ride /pause did not occur till the end of the current segment
you will still be scaling a kinematically transformed segment... and therfore its top end will NEVER be 100% capability
which might be a long time
unless you lie about its capabilities...
well it's stated that it's "sub optimal"
so if there's a 12" circle being cut in one G-code line at 1 IPM, a pause won't happen until the entire 37 minutes has elapsed?
to reduce calculations I guess
particularly with quintic
you dont want a scale of it ann its directly related to the change in slope of 2 adjascent segments
SWP unless chris changed it yes I think so
hit e-stop then...
then its more of a single block button than a pause
can you resume after estop?
les: have you tried this lately? I thought pause worked better than that.
not really, since e-stop usually means that somebody's going to get hurt
This goes back to several discussions on CCED regarding stop types
les: of course, I could try it too, but I didn't before asking.
before your mods it kept going quite a while after a feed change
pause should be a feed hold... e-stop... you mean it... STOP
no - there are different things that you want to do for estop
dmess: I agree
pause is a "level 1" stop - just wait, but maintain position and feedback
ESTOP is just EMERGENCY STOP
dmess: That is why I implemented a feedhold in Mini.
of course any g0 should cause a zero motion end point and pause there with an M00
as in : bloody STOP
right, and for most machines, that means "turn off the power to the motors" - not "wait here while I vacuum some chipsout of the way"
On mine I have it set up that a software estop disables the servo amps
e-stop in this country has to Mechanically disconnect power to all drives excpt for brake holing power
exactly - that's something you don't want to do when the operator just wants to vacuum chipes or change a tool
I have hard estop buttons as well...they actually disconnect then brake the servos, and shut down the spindle
for a true estop, you don't care about losing position. for pause / resume, you do
Estop does not have to loose position though.
les: proper way to do it ;)
SWP: estop shouldn't loose position
rayh: it does for me simply because I send a signal to disable the amps
Heidenhein use scales and Yes you do shut it ALL off for some stuff... but pos'n is maintained by scale...
it should stop and brake
but feedback could still work, why should that stop too?
I don't even loose position on the rutex step and direction servo drives.
I did with gecko
I agree that it shouldn't, but I would definitely be worried if a pause button did the esact same thing as an emergency stop button
A hard estop is required on industrial machines...the gui estop can be that or not, depending on how things are wired
ok so maintain feedback...clear e-stop...(drives light up) -single block..(prog. chk.)..cycle start...
usually the gui estop should trigger an external estop too
Gui estop currently resets the program
but the external circuitry should always have priority
It does in mine
which means that an external estop (which the GUI notices, then goes into estop itself) will reset the program
les: depends on the emc you have :D
I connected some hal pins for emc2
SWP: depends on wiring
if you use estop sense...
Ah - found it. I thought of four stop conditions - user pause, limit, fault, and estop
if the gui notices it .. should be so
and you probably want to do different things in those cases: decel to 0, stop but maintain position, or kill the machine forcefully
With mini, an external or internal estop resets the program but also kicks up a line number and restart buttons.
hal_bit_t *estop_out;/* estop pin output (from EMC to the actual machine) */
hal_bit_t *estop_in;/* estop pin input (e.g. machine estop) */
mess likes Rays suggestion
what a mess :D
not just a mess but D mess
do you then hit the slow parsing problem?
(or is the interpreter actually left at the particular line)
SWPadnos: Uh yes on long programs.
OK - I assume that's on the Fest list? :)
Some sort of fix is essential.
Both for estop and for changing tools in mid program.
dos the toolchanging problem also happen if a Txx or pause command is hit?
We really need to be able to switch to manual mode, change and measure tools, and switch back.
rayh: the whole io, commands, etc needs rethinking
did you get to any conclusion about segmentqueue?
pause should allow a manual mode to be selected... axes retracted... tool check performed..then
at resume... it should goto its last programmed position and carry on parsing program
It means that the auto state needs to be modified by the ending state of the manual
and retract along reverse path, which would be useful for EDM (not to mention essential for dovetail cutters :) )
the goto is usually in a straight line
dmess: with the possible need to work around obstacles.
goo with multiple axis is a great cause of crashes
if you wanna use positioning feedback... just have the operator teach the path on the way out and reverse it to reposition..
I get around this with mini by disclaiming any responsibilty for a restart
so doe FANUC... ; )
rayh: it's not a bug as long as it's documented
and then provide both forward in program and back in program buttons and highlights in the program itslef
alex_joni: An undocumented feature
"do this and you'll be certain to get a big f*&^% mess.
it's pretty easy to go backwards along a series of linear paths (circular isn't too bad either)
or was that a D mess.
aok get this scenario ive used for going onto 20yrs...
do not (and I emphasize DO NOT) attempt to push that button ;)
I had a bitch of a time trying to figure the locus of an arc when I was stopping part way through it.
pause... relative screen... zero all axes..(current position) spndl off..handle... move away...
paul_c: there was kris_jensen asking about vital stuff on bdi-4.18
you have the same center point, and the start point is known (current pos), the end point is the position specified in the previous line (plus change between CW to CCW)
SWP: I said push not click ;)
dmess: Coming to code fest?
reposition close... start spindle.. bring rel to 0,0,0... auto mode.. cycle start
oh - no wonder why nothing Bad happened :)
only in spirit Rayh
And IRC I trust.
dmess: too bad ;)
* alex_joni too
that sounds like it'd work
an0n: what does?
Know what we need at code fest....
a projector with IRC.
im just a cnc hack anyway... cant code for beans..
what dmess wrote
rayh: besides massive brain power?
oops - I guess I'm out :)
SWPadnos: That was assumed.
good - normal government turpentine, or real coffee?
smartboard would be nice with a one button link to www.
SWP: must not be from all attendants
it's a serial protocol, so very small files that are easily transferred
will a current pause allow manual mode selection??
can you make ordinary images from the product.
If we can get a projector, I have a laptop that can output to it (VGA, S-video, or video) - I might even be able to bring a spare with that capability
dmess: I reckon so (go to MDI or Manual)
Nist has a projector.
I believe so, but it's been years since I've looked at their stuff
I think safety regulations frown on a hard estop only on a computer screen or hot key
I'll see about borrowing the second computer
but I'm not sorry it's there
you must have hardware for EStop
you can optionally tell the software that the machine is no longer in operation
Agreed on estop.
SWP: on normal to big machines yes
I use it to leave things on but disable the amps when I am away for lunch etc
he plans on kickin the power bar
With the rutex drives I prototyped...
yes - a switch on the power strip is an effective estop for a small machine :)
Estop, either from GUI or the red button.
killed motor power...
big red mushroom... as the techies put it
true, it's just that a relay is so much less likely to crash than a program
(I'm looking at building machines that need semi-S2 certification, so estop is a big thing for me ATM :) )
I have to deal with that too...but must study up on it
* alex_joni goes to work
question haha are we working?
* rayh phone
I thought so...
unless working=getting paid
les: it's only 22:00 here... so .. yes, we are working
in which case I am goofing off
ah but it's r&d overhead haha
hm, I wonder if bmp2cnc works nice
there's always cnc2bmp
never tried it
I was kidding
dosent matter too much
use Microdem to greyscale to height stuff
mill the mountains!!
never heard about it
thinking about milling that..
get digital elevation maps in standard DEM format
convert to height=greyscale
works very well
Tried it with shuttle strm mission data
but I was disappointed
expected to see cars in driveway etc
DEM is 30 meter
still it works ok to carve a city or county or something
Idea was to carve a county in mountanous areas in urethane foam
sell it to local government...
move on to next county and do the same
but I have other better paying things to do now heh
[18:58:16] <anonimasu> http://www.indoor.flyer.co.uk/edm.pdf
the maps would need to bring about $1000 each
3-d raster carving is very time consuming
I just wish that book took up somthing about digital supplies
les: you gonna paitn these "sculptures"?
Ah jymmm good point...
DEM has no color or shade detail
airbrush something in
or get fancy and inkjet print sat photo over it
ive used rastered foam cores for carbon fiber layup tooling... works GREAT
stuff is expensive
what carbon fiber??
$230 for the last sheet I bought
wow... they sen you comin'
15 lb/ft^2 density
dmess no that was actually a good deal
it is just real expensive stuff
google signfoam and you will see
i used to get SPECTRA line ... 1/8" @ 3000 psi....for .12 a ft... now. .36
i know the stuff...
cuts like air
lots of sticky nasty dust though
I have vacuum but it's not the best
we used to hold the shop vac to her
I use a 2 hp collector with 3" duct to the tool
What, none of you guys use a wet/dry shopvac when your milling?
but a lot still gets away
right at the tool get a rooter tail dissappearing
into the tube
I even use a brush foot around the tool
but a lot gets away
I need to make the brush foot floating
get the suction lower/stronger more direct
is the machine contained??
the collector is about 1200 ft^3/min @ 30 " h20
les you know how they cover walk-in freezers?
les with long flaps of clear plastic
work area is it contained...
les know what I mean?
I am using 4" nylon bristle gasket in extruded al
how much pressure on the bristles??
are the bent??
big problem is cooling air blasting out of the spindle bottom
made a deflector and it helped some
Back only got half way through the rutex fit but you guys have moved on.
the bristles are fixed ralative to z so are sometimes bent a lot
contain the work envelop and add a 10psi air line to the top of the machine... make a + pressure in the worc envelope and it HAS to go into the vacuum
we had to do something while you were working ray
dmess: I have a supersonic CONDI nozzle blasting air on the tool toward the vacuum inlet
it helps some
then you'll have to SUCK HARDER....
but main purpose is to blast out packed chips in deep grooves
right - the sucker has to be stronger than the blower :)
Oh. The rutex uses two power supplies.
24 volt dc and pmotor
yup.. .in that stuff anyway.
you can get the same position functionality with Jon Elson's GSI board
Estop shuts of motor and ac to things like spindle and such
(maintains power to the encoders independent of the drive being powered)
The dc 24 remains on so the encoders continue to read.
* Jymmm hands les a 12" hooker to blow and suck the chips away!
rihgt - and the PIC chip remains powered
Now the problem with rutex is that it counts both pulses to step and encoder
and compares them.
ray: sounds like the safe way
+24 v is a watchdog tipe signal...
The mill it put this on had two handwheels.
sometimes soft estop (on gui) looses encoder position
so there's a position error proportional to the response time of the PC, since it's still outputting pulses after the herdware has estopped
You ram it into a limit
and estop it
les.... it shouldnt...
hand crank it back
and power up and it goes right back into the limit.
I know it shouldn't...but it has
In fact it assumes that you want to do that as quickly as possible.
error levels should deal with that ray
rutex error is 32k
actually, it should have integrated the position error to full drive strength in that case
especially if it sees the encoder going backwards when it's trying to go froward
right it should snap back
I do not have an explanation for this
Nearly pushed me across the room.
there should be a "clear" signal on the Rutexes
(other than shutting them off)
I added a power switch on the box that shuts of the whole damn thing.
should do that..
yes, but the rutex drives keep a copy of the encoder position for feedback to the computer
Now that still does not loose position
e-stop reset on pc... is soft estop removal..
I make it a point to be careful around a stopped but on condition
The thing could crush me like a grape
that's why I think about four kinds of stop conditions
les you would look funny purple or in a bottle of wine
so much for the cnc massage machine heh
hm, you can always override limits and back up..
never sevice powered machinery... read the manuals...
some where you use the motion planner to stop, and others where you really want to make sure nobody gets hurt
as long as emc dosent keep cranking pulses to the drive..
(or at least the RT motion controller)
the limits shouldnt be 0.1 from the edge..
well it always will in the event of an external estop
If we have an external estop, we need to have EMC estopped as well.
I liked MAriss eSTOP ciruit
It'll be pulsing for at least one servo update cycle, right (1kHz)
SWPadnos: you need to have feedback..
I assume a machine on state will run away at any time...with 2200lbf
safe way to be
so ext esopt drops input pin estop an emc hols the boat
feedback actually compounds the problem - the PID loop sees no motion, so it increases the velocity to compensate
well you would need to have soft stops and hard stops that kills the drives..
icreases the force in my case
it's current mode
In the external pid from rutex, yes. That seems to be the case.
one that flips the estop relay..
sure - increases drive strength, I guess I should say
soft limits are a NICE idea
soft limits that can be overridden from software..
well - to me hitting a limit switch is just a pause/resume operation.
the hard ones shouldnt touch if the machine isnt running away..
somewhat more severe than a yellow button getting pushed, but not catastrophic
and if it it it better stop the machine..
err and if it is.
in any way possible..
soft limits are good...I have them set about 1 cm from hard limit switches...then a shock absorber for the next 2 cm then end of travel
that's the way to go on about it I think..
the hard ones shouldnt leave any current on the drives..
dmess likes neopreme shock absorbers
you should never get past the soft ones anyway..
I used ACE constant force hydraulic shocks
les... where are s'ware limits set up in EMC
expensive little suckers
in the config..
OK - so there are maybe 5 stops: user pause, soft limit, limit switch, axis fault, and e-stop input
dmess: in the .ini
les: Yes there are much better shock absorbers than flesh.
hmm ok .
flesh is kind of a one-time-use thing :)
Oh. Add to that list chuck barriers.
rayh Hey you never know... get some european spa to sell flesh stops at $500 per 5 minute session.
actually, axis fault should just be "fault" - it could be from a tool break sensor
are there any lathes being fitted with EMC tha anyone knows??
for me the big red buttons and the limit switches are on the same buss
that's an acceptable implementation
and they do a hardware estop
better safe then crippled
soft limits just stop but no hard or soft estop
yep - there are different stop conditions, and different system responses to map to those situations
and soft estop(on the gui) just disable amps
that shouldnt be there imo
you can make every condition o an estop if you want
Bridgeport limit pin only shuts off the machine. It does not estop.
sounds good les... holds pos'n
it does if you physically connect it to the estop chain :)
actually, anything in the gui shouldn't be labeled estop, since it really isn't
one note: if you have very low accel programmed in the ini emc will blow by limit and home switches
my point exactly
more of an enable
Maybe change that to "stop" and "enable"
I've not seen that at all Les.
that makes more sense
estop should be a hard stop..
I have with servo ray
at higher traverse speeds, right les?
right higher speeds
very low decel with very high velocities ?
if you're moving 10m/min and you have 0.1 m/s^2 accel, you can't stop fast enough
hm, that depends on the design of the switches..
we on the same page again...
and how far from the end of travel you put them
--\_________/-- is how I'd set up my switches
That is why I always set the soft limits in the ini
Because decel is applied before the command.
so that anything past the switches triggers them.. dosent matter where..
on some large boring mills soft and hard switches micht be 15 cm apart
well - that's something to ad to Tillie mode: a calculation of how far from the end stops your limit switches need to be to be of any use
well always fit switches in a cam fashion...so travel can go a bit past them without crushing them
I don't think this physical separation is a predictable thing.
or at least a warning that at max speed, you could hit an end stop
it is - if you know max vel and max accel, you can calculate max stopping distance
The only way we get past a INI set limit is a hardware failure.
or a software bug..
I can do that :)
hopefully no one will ever have to experience that
And that that point we do not have control of decel or vel.
a limit switch is a warning at one level - it can be placed so that the machine can be brought to a controlled stop
otherwise, it's an estop
That is why I like the shock absorber thing a lot better than a
ray: I will have to double check soft limits...I often see blowing past home and hard limit
ball screw crash at full power.
and 'tards :)
but I think soft limit does to
oh - hi
tards say hello
les: A jog command is to the soft limit
a controled rapid should still only get to the s'limit
ray I am not sure on soft limit...is it supposed to be a calculated decel before it reaches it?
you should be able to override soft limits
Yes. The command is a complete up down to the end point.\
You can override soft limits and they do not apply before homing.
if the seg que is reading it all anyway it should tell you if your ganna hit a s'limit ta cycle start time
I have an over ride on hard limits...and use it often!
with a fast parser, you can predict if a program will exceed the limits though
But the override we have is a single command override.
The interpreter will not command a move past an INI limit.
right - if I have a piece that's just a little biger than the limits, but I know it'll fit on the machine (speeds are low enough to remove danger), then I should be able to tell emc to ignore those for now
Um. Not as it is presently compiled.
then a warning on program load is pretty essential
you'll have to create another ini...
shuold - like post-Fest :)
I will test that. I try to run as low an accel as possible to do the job. Below a certain point I cannot home because it blows past the switch, hits the hard limit, and estops
What you are saying is related to chuck or vice barriers.
which is fine
you should reduce the max velocity if you reduce the accel that low
no auto mode capabilities without s'limit enabled...is the way i see it
I don't have any problems with that behaviour
We should have the ability to lock or unlock any portion of the workspace.
well - there's a relationship between the distance from soft limit to hard limit, and it has to do with the max accel and max velocity
other than just rectangular space?
if you keep the velocity down, you can expand the soft limits closer to the hard limits
The old Sherline ini decel, when applied to a rotary, took half a rotation to get up to speed or back down.
* alex_joni is back
Full speed was only a few degrees.
thats a workzone inhibit feature... param envelope acts as pseudo slimits
That's why we added individual axis accel and vel.
i know the theory.... whos gonna code it
I don't even know how to tell that to the system. but I know that we need it bad.
arbitrary workzones could require a lot of data
"Tool! Don't even think about going there."
simpler geometric shapes would not
right now it's a rectangle.
With chuck barriers you just program cylinders that are in or out of reach
I'd just make cubic (right rectangular solid, actually :) ) zones
seg que has to chk to see if next pos'n fits inside a box X x Y x Z @ x1y1z1 if so just say no
it's more complex with non-XYZ joint setups
For a vice barrier, it may be two rectangles on top of a third.
simple connected rectangles would be pretty easy I guess
overlap rectangles to get complex shapes... omit common pts
what are you guys talking about?
would have some big switch() instead of a single if
And how the concept might be applied to chuch and vice barriers.
chuck. I've already got church barriers in place.
boolean or, I would think
yellow tape barriers at our place...
"Do not attack the human in the work envelope."
could the parser chk end points prior to processing
It seems to me that a simple shifting of the existing INI soft limits
would handle these kinds of things.
or the addition of slimit 1 and lsimit 2...
dmess: yes, but it would need speedups in the parser
Because with all of the look ahead, the limit has to shift for each block processed.
with greater than less thans
oh to be real handy you might want to drag ractangles on a picture or something
plus, endpoints aren't enough - you need extent of travel for arcs
extents is available from postprocessor... we should be able to calculate it
yes a controlled decel before the work space limit could be complicated
yep - can be done, but probably better with speed improvements
(in the parser)
so fix it.. ; )
wait a couple of weeks ;)
a distace offst from the limit calculated from max speed and accel in the ini would prob be sufficient
i can do that..
than no trajectory planner stuff
Is there an ini value for the actual machine travel? (or is that the soft limit var)
the soft limits are in there
I know they are, but for fudging extended soft limits, you'd also want to know the "real" limit
thats where i was screwin up... id have put my hswitches in front of that
hswitch ys, lswitch no
well I would assume traveling toward the limit with max velocity straight in
calculate the offset for the limit with that
also with max accel
yes.. and slow down that far ahead of the s/ware limit
at max decell
hmmm - the limits could be calculated from the max feeds in a program and the max accel
but good enough I think
and no TP changes
just a big switch()
big switch is a bad thing
only if you are closer than that AND manage to get to max speed sill you ever blow it softwre wise
well - switch() anyway
heh.. reminds me of NML somehow ;)
480 lines only
heh well emc is full of big switch()
yes - that should be on the Fest list :)
at least ordering the cases so the most important are at the beginning
what are the dates of codefest??
and if it start from closer than that offset...
hmm let's see
sorry - 25-28
SWP: I slowly start to think FEST should be 24.04-28.05
It will not be able to accel to ful speed anyway right?
but still a possible slight over run
right... therin lies the solution..
or 2005.04.25 - 2005.04.28
SWP: i know, I said it SHOULD be 25.04.2005-28.05.2005
to be able to address all the topics
you need the "real" size, but then you can calculate max velocity (toward the close limit) from the accel and position values
just need to pad the soft limit offset a bit more for that
hard limits and bumpers are for machines with shity controls...
haha well mine has em...the controls will be indeed shitty if the computer locks...
les: ever hit those bumpers?
well... is this THE operating system ive heard about or is it CRAP...
les: WAY TO GO !!!
which is a shame...they cost so much
you arent an operator till you've been baptized by a machine crash
dmess: he's an integrator ;)
I have also had to go around and cycle the big red switches all around the machine
theyy say you remember you first for life...
they are normally closed but without occasional contact wiping they open
and the machine won't turn on
which is as it should be
good to know they still work...
dmess: I design machines. But I have done the dive for the big red button some too!
ohh pls. make THAT STOP... been there.. on a someone elses machine even...
I usually make it to the button
i had a young apprentice at the Montreal tool show e-stop my machine cuz he thought it was gonna crash... ; )
But I must admit to a couple times with flying carbide shrapnel bits
i like when the cat 50 is glowing under 5gpm of flood coolant... you know thats to be proud of
slipping collets are always great fun
you need to talk to les newell I think .. :)
does he have collet slips robin?
or the 6" fly cutter comes off the arbour and dances across 10 000 dollars worth of fixtures you trying for the 1st time
he tells me that Mach2 "didnt bother" with a few lines of gcode in a prgram .. put the toolpost of a big lathe into the 4 jaw .. the tool came off, through the 1/4" plexiglass and stuck in the roof =:-0
when the tooling is stuck in the ceiling, its always a bad sign
I think when I get the 10 hp or so bolted on I am going to have some exciting times?
nice.... toshiba VTL thru a jaw into the next building at one customer's
I crashed a robot on a fair once
$mate has a magnetizer for speaker magnets
it just ran amok
the door flew off and the operator hid under it till the noise stopped
right into the neighbours stand
sodding big coil of copper tape and some HUGE caps
yeah had one at shure
you put bolts in the hole, hit the go button and watch them embed in the roof :)
im not a magent guy ..
another time they decapitad a VTL with the crane.... who knew the hydraulic counterbalance would go sooo high
yeah - make sure you haven't had too much beef (or other iron-rich foods :) )
the air core cap ones can do 2+ Tesla fields
dunno what this one does
not quite like that 100T one at florida state that floats frogs and stuff
they make big speakers and it exceeded the previous professionally built one by 10% in its ability to make magnets
$wife has seen weird shit in NMR scanners ...
like plastic tubing floating
NMR is up there with flux density
several or even 10 or so T?
it is one of the primary forces guys..
Use the force Luke!
relativistic manefestation of the electric Field
DMG used linear motors... that wiped out the German techies card... i guess we dont ground things like they do.. and anyone with cars around that machine had blanc cards
next thing you know you'll have me runnin to the liquid nitrogrn store.
les: why buy? make your own
how cold for an adiabatic expansion
Mmmmmmmm 5000 gallons of LN2
I used te dry ice makers
you know it has been 25 years since I took thermodynamics
Heh, we had a valve stuck open once... had 12" of LN2 on the floor of the chamber
sweet...mother of jesus
that could really suck
free wart away seminar..
* Jymmm NOW knows the reason for double latched doors on envirmental chambers =)
We poured it on the floor (from the sorption pumps) at end of shift each day at Harris
yeah - your fingers freeze off undoing the first latch.... :)
It was kinda funny... filled the entire lab, then seemed into the hallway... you never saw ppl jump up on desks/chair that fast =)
We used to do a really dumb "stick your hand in the LN2 initiation" there
It won't hurt you if you do it fast
les how many vitims did you get?
just boils around your hand
what did I miss?
dip the hair and break it off was our trick
but I don't reccomend it..
makes beer cold fast though =)
anon: just friday afternoon goofing off heh
my router died..
? what happened?
I have no idea..
it seems like it just locked up
alex_joni: PEBKAC probably
well you know the universal fix...
anonimasu nix or hw router?
openbsd is unstable nowdays..
I used to have 700 days of uptime on the same system with linux
seems like routers lock up randomly
alex_joni you dont know PEBKAC ?
I dunno if i't some kind of exploit or some kind of error..
alex_joni: its the most common reason
the P is "Problem"
anonimasu I have a MS-DOS router you cna use =)
Jymmm: oh, does it run pf?
heh .. this is cool
[20:25:27] <alex_joni> http://babynamewizard.com/namevoyager/lnv0105.html
anonimasu pf ?
anonimasu actually yeah it does, and does ipsec too
anonimasu has ftp and telnet too
anonimasu I'm not kidding
what a link
oh I belive you.. but well bsd works just fine
but it might just be a bad memory stick..
anonimasu this boots from a fdd then just runs in memory after that.
alex_joni: Problem exists between keyboard and chair
wtf do all 'mercans want to pretend they are Irish?
But I have the registered version ---> ftp://ftp.flashnet.it/pub/simtelnet/msdos/network/iprv094.zip
how come Connor, Caleb etc are the most popular names
non-us export restricted.
connor? on what planet?
oh.. it beat robin
maybe I should run out in the shop and tram the mill..
it's 1 deg off :)
I think that'll remove my chatter and give me better surfaces
I sometimes off tram a hair with fly cutters
auction upload time again
as usual, its all a mess
oh your auctions
lots with no images, but entries in the db
lots with .JPG in the db and .jpg in the filesystem
and vice versa
I may have some significant tools to sell as I upgrade to more power on things
les: too bad you're so far away
anonimasu I have used it 24/7/365 for 3yrs - it's not too shabby. Also a great way to have an emergency router
mostly woodworking stuff
bigger jonter...bigger saw
les MORE POWER UG UG UG
power is cheap... employee time is not
bigger and bigger machines mean the potential for more dramatic accidents
so a little scary
But I am in the phase of twice the power half the time stuff now
you stop when the work catches on fire I guess
the soon to be 10 hp 1000 ipm stuff is going to age me prematurely
les: you really must not care
* Jymmm hands les http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?keyword=3741501&resultCt=1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=118230
type in the wrong thing in a text editor and the whole place goes up?
[20:39:54] <anonimasu> http://shurl.org/ttRvi
yeah will need bigger fire extinguishers
have small abc ones now
les those are automatic and can be installed on anything
les note pricetag
well, not that much..
i like fire suppression units... EDM must have them as far as im concerned
cheap insurance :)
les $1000 is cheap insurance for a $10k machine
les atuomatic and won't damage electronics
I like halon fire extinguishers.
anonimasu I do too
although deadly but they extinguish fire :D
buy some large CO2 bottles
should extinguish fires
alex_joni co2 + electronics
not a good thing
chemical == eats metal
Jymmm: not liquid
I've extinguished burning solvent's with a co2 one..
it worked great..
alex_joni chemical, yeah
Big insurance for industrial cnc is just to make it tough
that dosent help aginst fire :)
why would you put a fire extinguiser in an EDM?
My lin bearings can handle 32,000lb max dynamic load
alex_joni you have to wipe that shit up fairly quick after wards
robin_sz: I ask the same
don't need that in cutting...
anonimasu: yeah, dint make sense to me
but it can survive a horrible crash and be ok.
robin_sz: I thought edm's was _safe_
anonimasu: unless its fission powered :)
safer then spinning a small cutter at 20krpm
anything done properly should be safe
even a nuke
but why an extibguiser in an EDM dmess??
or even an extinguiser
robin: does that www2.redpoint work?
even an extinguisher
alex_joni: hmmm .. .the dns points, but ive not made the vhost
hm they do come with extinguishers..
I wonder why
if you work with combustible metals..
[20:47:56] <anonimasu> http://www.intech-edm.com/pdf/FireGuard.pdf
I have caught my clothes on fire welding.
but .. underwater?#
whats it going to do?
and you dont edm magnesium do you?
les we told you to quit welding the inside of the brewery vat!
when it's half full
but it was leaking :)
SWPadnos that was a valve!
of for a die sinker edm
I was thinking of wire edm
talk about clausterphobic... clean the inside of a 5000 gallon tank
die sinkers run in parafin dont they?
wire edm runs in distilled water
or in oil..
the ones ive seen were water
robin: what's goat.cx ?
you really want to know?
hmmm.. not so sure anymore :D
you really don;t want to know (at least that's the wrong URL)
SWPadnos: not quite the wrong url, just a variant
OK - but still not really in the "Lemme at it" category
be right back.?
alex_joni DONT GO
* Jymmm smack robin_sz... that's fscked up
alex_joni: I detached it from its vhost, but if you really really want to see th content that was there ...
I wonder if they'll put up ads on it
Jymmm is going to get his ass whooped
alex_joni : Fine, go looks at it!
# you were warned
the combination robin & goats give me the creeps
alex_joni that shouldn't at all
not sure it's legal to visit such pages around here
heh - this is a funny auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3832853401
no, me and goats is much safer to be honest
the guy doesn't know what a PC power supply looks like
they are OLD though
nope - original PC I think - 63.5W
LOL 63.5 Watts
I think the AT supplies were a bit more (like 100 or so)
ISTR we had one of those machines ... a Dell ... IBM clone
yeah right... "brand new and in excellent clean condition"
I have a friend who actually had the first PC model (his father worked at IBM)
had 16k on the MB, expandable to 64k
I had a IBM5110
the max that system could take was 576k, because there was a limit of 512k on ISA cards
(8-bit cards, that is)
alex_joni: did you look ...??
alex_joni: I will check the logs ;)
he's probably out washing his eyes out with soap
SWPadnos wont help
SWPadnos: the curious thing is ... you know who the real culprit is?
no - the image will forever be emblazoned on his retinas
I know not, thank you
Tony, that is
tbl, who visits this channel ...
ex sherline sysadmin
goatse.cx was his ...
this is just a copy
ugh - 6 degrees of separation hits again
yeah, just when you wish it wouldnt :)
2 steps from Fergie - OK
1 step from Spike Jonze, OK
but anything closer than 67 or so from this is depressing
* alex_joni agrees
ugh .. there are some idiots on the net ...
robin: how so?
why is that guy on geckodrive trying to make his own encoders
like $19 .. why would you bother
at 0.02 cents per hour he might come out okay.
assuming hes prepared to accept a crap encoder too
well - they are close to $40 each :)
Yes that is probably also true.
apart fromt he $19 ones
actually, a high quality industrial one (which may be a stretch for anything homemade) is in the $400 range
SWP: or more
well .. yes
yes - more :)
but you won't match that at home
but the cheap us digital one is $19
dropping to $10 in quantity
[21:39:05] <robin_sz> http://www.usdigital.com/products/e4p/
admittedly on 1200ppr .. but still
their better ones are $39
yeah - I'm not sure why they're doing their own, but it's a cool thing anyway
yeah, for fun,
makes it possible to have multilpe index channels and the like
but its not sane
CNCzone seems to have more than its fair share of arseholes
I think every group does :)
(or at least, its fair share)
heh.. jmkwas the one who worked on making encoders
CNCzone seems to attract the "never actually seen a mill/lathe/router" brigade
"... but I want to build one"
the same guy was the one telling me how making up complicate ribbon cable assemblies was cheaper than a SMD printed circuit to drop the 200X on
cable == manual labor == $$$$
and that without the manual labour == fuckups
he also did the "smoother pulses dont give more torque" thing
I have developed an irrational dislike
true enough about the torque
but it does extend "usable" torque :)
it produce more torqu on the output shaft at speed than rough pulses
yes - so you get a higher percentage of the motor's rated torque applied to the shaft
but as he said, it doesn't make a 300 oz-in motor into a 400 oz-in motor
all splitting hairs
(it just makes it perform like one)
but don't worry - I think he doesn't like you either :)
thats OK, I am waiting for him to send me an offlist mail
doesn't usmotor or something like that sell a 20 buck or so quad encoder?
If you use the pulse multiplier from gecko or the rutex then there is smoothing anyway.
rayh: yeah, that helps
yeah thats it, they seem to offer a large selection of motors
true - and you have to for slower computers
* rayh confesses to be the arse round these parts.
* robin_sz wonders whether to send rayh to *that* page ...
anyway, hello you guys, hope things are going well :)
they have aexactly two motors, both steppers
*that* page has been around for a long time, and I can picture it, as I saw it when I first saw it,
robin_sz: don't do it
yeah, still worth sending people to from time to time :)
that and tubgirl
actually - eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
it is funny that a company that sells loads of encoders doesn't sell servos
but they do sell steppers and rebranded Geckodrives
did I miss several minutes of conversation?
rayh: you are better off not knowing
rayh: I advise against visiting *that* page ;)
*that* 's a great idea :)
pretty crusty 'eh?
um - yeah
have you ever noticed that you can't unsee something?
crusty .. no .. more sort of moist really.
* alex_joni smacks robin
cradek: ain't that the truth.
somebody make him shut up
* robin_sz sends alex_joni to www.tubgirl.com as a punishment
if you listen carefully ... you can hear him typing it in ...
he doesnt want to ..
but he will anyway
the devil made him do it.
anyway .. moving swiftly on ;)
not really ;)
you don't need to go there - it is a shitty site
oh I do so hope the log bot is logging this ...
some day, someone is going to browse these logs ... :)
woe unto them
I thought tubgirl was a MS Desktop background.
only for the criminally insane
Used in all the good schools.
ive always wondered whether someone took that pic tinking "this will be gross" ..
hm I think I found the error with the router..
or they took it thinking "this is just sooooo sexy"
yeah - or this is so cool"
thats waht I fond disturbing ...
the cpu had grewn fur.
"tinking" you are a true youpper, robin
no but almost
the cpu was hot when I touched it..
I finally replaced mine - it had been grinding for a few weeks
not extremely but that's on the outside of the fins...
it was what I'd call pretty warm..
but that dosent tell anything about how hot it's inside..
$500 cpu, $3 fan ...
next weel it'll be a $3 CPU so no worries
next week even
$250,000 of data ...
yeah amazing what that porn costs to download
* anonimasu cant seem to get the mill to make shiny surfaces
must be why they made polishers
pfred1: oh, if I dont get good surfaces when I mill I might as well take the file out of the box :)
high speed finish passes are your friend
what are you cutting?
(or was that low speed? :) )
yeah a finish cut light fast
hm dosent seem to matter that much...
fast as you can go ...
I get circles OoOoO
usually you downhill on the material removal then climb back out
do any devs use a canned debug IDE like kdevelop or do you just vi/gcc to debug?
yeah at the bottom of the cut..
thats mill stability
as it stops, its flexing
might be that I've got too much overhang.. also..
must be made from plastic and bent wire
kdevelop and the like aren't well suited to debugging RT and kernel modules
great for some GUI development though
* anonimasu sighs
* alex_joni goes to bed
yeah chatter does not make for smooth machining
I've got a 4cm edge cutter..
hey les ..
not found these cheap dc motors yet
are you doing 3d contouring, or 2.5D stuff?
I am trying to mill a g1...
I am doing true 3d contouring
just a straight line..
SWPadnos: 3d contouring ... hes trying to do 2.5d, but its ending up as 3d :)
robin: still looking at cheap servo options
the edges might be dead though since I plunged with it a couple of days ago..
thinking about it
gotta run for dinner - see you later
It's one of the" should I really do this" filters for sure
les: makes some sense
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
well nevermind I'll look into it.. or I'll have to look for a new machine.
les: I'll try the steppers first though
les cheap servo options you're funny!
well a plunge groove is inherently unstable
one edge climb milling...the other not
you know the same girls I know ;)
pfred: yeah cheap servos seem an oxymoron
it ends up the same no matter how i cut it..
I've heard about people using mouse encoders
pfred1: the cheap US digital encoder is $19
a mouse has two quadrature encoders it's true
about 10ppr though
Should be good enough for a spindle.
if it has the freq response
What's the top end.
the bit at the top?
replace witha couple film gratings and ?
pickup spacing is fixed
nah because why not just buy some cheap usdigital
Got a 32 ppr round here -- holes in a wheel.
because old mice are free?
they work fine with over 1 mm slop in the slot
but not actually good enough
people gear them down
that's how they increase the resolution
I bet they do
and these people, do they subscribe to CNCZone by any chance?
pfred if you want I am sure you could make a good encoder out of mouse guts
but that's not where I've seen people do it
next making a linear encoder out of common #2 pencils!
its one of those "it would be possible, but not advisable" scenrios
one problem: no index channel
one of those time/money things
I can go out in the woods and take three rocks and turn them into surface plates I guess
but I don't
well I did it once
les why not?
was it fun?
to learn yeah
perhaps build a surface plate grinding rig ...
the most miserable people I've ever met have always been the richest ones
do it once and it is just nice to know that you can make perfect planes and right angles without any outside help
money does not buy happiness
it's just nice tyo know
I mat Janis Joplin's manager once he was a funny guy
his big line was I made a million and I spent it too!
what a rough job...
but ... money does at least make being miserable a tolerable experience :)
poor and miserabel just sucks
nah the most miseraberale pricks I've ever met are always rich
like me...I made a bit of money this year so far...and Robin knows I am about to spend a bunch of it
I can think of plenty of rich guys who are very very happy
it sucks even in minimum security federal prison you know?
they all always get busted for tax evasion
no tell me about life there heh
rich guys dont go to prison
when they cheat the government out of it's cut they sure as hell do!
tax evasion is an honorable profession!
cheat on your taxes well when it's 2.2 million things change
when you owe 2.2 mils in back taxes
I am pretty poor I guess
but I can blow money on silly things some
no they lockedh is ass up
pfred1: when did MS last pay taxes?
this guy gave his kid a Maseratti
you do things that silly with your money?
being as the kid didn't appreciate it
I gave each of my kids a rolls
and was constantly wrecking it
pfred1: listen, poor people pay no tax, rich people pay no tax, the only guys paying tax are the working guys. fact.
yeah I know another guy who gave his kid's rolls
he owns 47 parking garages in Manhatthan amongst other things
my only regret about not having big $$$ is...
pfred1: is that why I pay loads of tax.. :)
his kid's allowence was $2,500 a month this is back in 1980
not having a new Piper archer II in a hangar waiting for me.
that's about it
that kid would buy an ounce of coke throw the bag on the table and just say blow it
a II .. I thought they did a III
My wish is a g5
Only problem is all the airports around here are much to short.
rayh: if you were really rich, youd just build one :)
I took archers to your area a bit ray
whenever i think the people in this town are too rich I just have to think about Short Hills
the lake is long enough for pontoons or skis.
There were three guys who kept ski planes on it for a while.
I want to go back to my favorite lake
but it's too long a drive
I kinda miss the water...grew up on it
I've had a lot of fun there
where is that?
northwest of Millonocket
bout the only place on the map anywhere's near it
I grew up on places like the indian river in florida
yeah whenever i'm 60 miles from the nearest phone line i begin to relax
swatting mosquitos and sand flies
les I've lived on the Indian River
right on the drive
yeah my aunt owns right of passage on it
she's got a big front yard
too bad it's all under water :)
heh...my kids live in FT pierce
nah i used it
I lived in palm bay
[22:32:45] <robin_sz> http://www.theregister.com/2005/04/08/spammer_faces_slammer/
yeah she's about 3 miles north of the causeway
I do miss it a bunch
the Jensen Beach causeway
I go there some though
found said spreadsheet and removed all unnecessary copyright notices...
it's a big mess now
I guess i used to have good times there
hey.. i resemble that remark..
she used to have the longest dock on the river I donno now
it went all the way out to the intercoastal
I took pretty girls sailing on the river a lot
was like a third o a mile?
it was long that's all I remember don't evne know of she still has it though
i flied some pretty girls ...
in hang gliders?
03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/generic.run: Tweak the run script to generate diffs without a date string embedded in the file name..
I fly pretty girls in general aviation aircraft a little
they usually puke in my lap
they're not so pretty then are they?
that's almost as nice an "image" as tubgirl.
really it's horrible when they don't get to the bag
makes me sick too
I'm here to tell you
they fly no shoes... sometimes in a hg..
hg is better...puke just falls
naked othertimes.. but ya gotta wear a helmet... rules are rules...
you have hg rules?
no it does NOT.... it ends up in the foot of the cacoon harness... i know.. i had to clean it
makes the control bar pretty gross too..
the only feeling I had in a HG is "you are gonna die...NOW"
but that was in my poor design
reminds me I gotta start cooking supper.
or NOW... wait no now...
you should try a paraglider
one minute its a wing ...
next ....its a big ball of washing
I happen to be afraid of heights you know
i have 35 hrs in a pg... 2 broken wrists a broken back and a busted ankle.. wanna talk pg with ME..
but have a PPL
figure that one out
same shit no bones in the chicken...
I must trade for a new pg
this one sinks like a brick
i came down in a spin from about 130' and forgot to bounce..
I am imagining dropping a garbage bag of chicken bones from a great height
robin.. what do you fly
a uk thing called a "harley typhoon"
Hm...maybe I should try flying...my guardian angel needs the workout
dmess: ancient now ..
asd it is fun to learn
but very fun
tandem hg... www.uflyontario.com... so is my apco prima... but still crisp
* asdfqwega thinks of the IBM commercial - "Where are the flying cars? I was promised flying cars!"
dmess: had various things ailes d k pantair was the most lethal I think
I want my flying car!
me for a nice docile c172 thank you very much
anythingh sonds like pany... for pantglider i wouldnt fly
the pantiar had carbon spars down the le
quick for its day
I've some old PopMech magazines around here with ads for "build your own flying car"
ohh.. sabers in FRONT of you
oh I flew the katana that had that
but when it frontal tucked, it stayed tucked
vinyl ester plastic plane
oh you know that doiesel my mate had stall last week?
aw US certified light ac won't hardly stall
at least in utility
stall motor not starty
in a diesel
while taxying ...
the ecu said "no more go roundy"
CAA grounded the entire type
outta feull ey
and hes sending all 3 back
in training my instructor had me set mixture to idle cutoff then stall the plane till the prop stopped
glad he did that
since I had to do it again later
les he really took a shine to you huh?
he was good
people always think their instructor was good though
les: these http://www.diamond-air.at/en/products/DA40/index.htm
once you CAN fly... start practising for the crap that could hit ya...
a hero dies but once a coward dies a thousand times
hey those the same ones that traint the terrorist dudes>???
robin robin...!!! I am checked out on that aircraft
has a stick
and an engine that works ...
prop is carbon fiber covered balsa
most of the time
there are old pilots and BOLD pilots... but no old, bold pilots...
this one had a vp prop
flown one robin?
I had the offer ...
I had some troble with the glide ratio
yeah slippy huh?
when checking out on it first 3 landings I had to do a full slip
and it still would glide better than an archer
Propeller MT, 3 blade hydraulic constant speed propeller
I paid some money to get checked out on it
the diesel is handled by an ECU ...
yeah it had a pitch control
this one apparently varies the engine speed and the prop all on its own
you just have a "power" lever ..
it "does things" to get you that power
It also has a turkey bastwer pop up temp thing between the seats
oh nice a computer program to rely on...
if it pops up...no fly
plastic too soft
They have changed them a bit I know
well, he was just happy about the engine quitting during taxi, not take off
the one I flew was rotax gas
with a ptch lever
thats the 2nd of the 3 they have thats done an engien quit .. and less than 2 months old ..
so they all went back this week
with a nasty letter
I was always concerned about the bubble canopy latches
hinge at the back?
would hate to have the thing fold back in flight
know what? even with the tiny engines those things are FAST
yeah I know
that was the good part
they are so slick
make sour emeraude look painful
they just won't come down
makes our emeraude look painful
bad ride in turbulence though
low wing loading
but a joy on a nice day
oh nose wheel is not steerable
brakes to turn
[22:59:05] <robin_sz> http://tagazous.free.fr/photos/highdef/694.jpg
#my mate Giles's thing (or one like it anyway)
tail dragger :)
flies OK, excellent rate of roll
I do not have a tail dragger rating
I been dragging my tail today
and if FS 204 is any indication...I don't want one
[23:00:40] <robin_sz> http://www.gsazz.co.uk/Plane_Images/CP23501_1.JPG
# another .. see the short stubby wings
know what sucks. Having like 6 pairs of safety glasses, but I'm down to 1 now. My father takes them when he doe sanything now.
safety glasses are overrated
les: for a wood & cloth homebuilt, they are nice enough ...
alpha: all safety glasses vanish. just like disposable lighters and pens.
pfred1, that is by far the stupidest thing you've said.
les, I've noticed.
I've jackhammered without them
A-L-P-H-A: we play with high powere lasers, in the open, no safety glasses
A-L-P-H-A if you ever have to jackhammer and they give you a choice between glasses and ear protection go with the ear protection!
pfred1: good choice.
you can always close your eyes ")
but I've jackhammered without ear protection too
man you can't hear jack for like 3 days after that!
eye damage will make you blind
but at least you'll live
nah I've embedded concrete in my eyes
tinitus is often fatal
doc cokes you up swabs it out
I require my workers to wear them
they all need glasses anyway
might as wel be safety glasses
ears are more of a worry for me
id rather be blind than have tinitus
I check my hearing often
what? i can't hear you over the ringing
at least you can sleep with impaired eyesight
almost all males in industrial countries get some tinnitus
well it's more of a hissing buzzing actually
well, look after your ears ...
it can be a hissing or ringing
nah just keep buying more powerful amplifiers!
when I was 18 I could hear to 27 kHz
now about 12 or 14
27 is high
could you jump in the water and bring back a duck too?
here les good boy!
27 KHz heh
yes my dad was an engineer too so I had the gear to test it
tinitus is reckoned to be the second cause of suicide after depression
rapid drop off in 20's
so i was informed
the older i get the less Iwant to hear anyways so it's all working out OK by me
well I am an audio type so it matters
but it still goes so what can I do
it's cool as long as it's loud
les: when it gets so bad you cant sleep due ot the ringing, you top yourself
I like it so it feels like you're getting punched in the chest
I have some
polypropelyne drivers are cool!
mine is at two frequencies...about 8 and 12 khz
i have a ring at about 15k
like a tv monitor
mine is sort of like this wheeeeeeeeee sound
it's just damaged hair cells firing all the time
ever seen a electron microscope phot of the damage?
yeah well even at our best we're sucky sensors really
I guess you condition to it/...but only up toa point
and whatever our senses don't get right our brains distort anyways
my tinnitus is about at oh...30 or 40 dba
not audible usually
just in a quiet bedroom or something
I got a TV going and the PC and i can hear a whizzing sound
circular saws can be loud
well tv horizontal is 15750 Hz....if you can hear that your ok
oh know what tool i got I wear my ear plugs with today?
my thickness planer
man that thing is noisy
mine can be loud
they are usually above 90 dba/i meter
if i plane like a hard oak with it or something
none of your PAL/G muck
or is it PAL/M
the I/G/M bit is the audio subcarrier freq only, I didnt do transmissions :)
we always loved pal...you got to actually see all colors on a tv...we didn't
I play the guitar and I'm OK with electronics so I'm not too concerned with my eharing
when it gets worse I'll make a more powerful amplifier
pfred1: your hearing is damaged?
robin_sz I'm a powertool nut so sure that and I like hard rock music
ok, well .. if your eyesight was dmamaged, how much care would you take of your remianing eye?
I played guitar in a crummy rock band in my youth and it did not help
as I said, if you go blind .. at least you can sleep
les what kind of music did you guys try to play?
bad tinitus will keep you awake ...
I use the "just turn it up more" thing too as hearing declines
robin_sz I can sleep on a picket fence
I have fallen asleep on concrete steps before
behind the wheel of a car
pfred: 1969.... does that give a clue?
well, as I said, people kill themselves to escape tinitus
les Iggy Pop and the Stoodges?
* anonimasu nods
well it's 1969 OK
war across the USA ...
cream is cool
led zeppelin for me
the beatles i can leave
hendrix some(too hard)
love love them i don't
the wussiest laser show we ever went to was a beatles show
man their fans!
Robert Plant live just up the road from me too ;)
stratocasters, gretches, and fender super reverbs
the led zeppelin laser show now that was a rowdy crowd
I saw Jimmy Page in the Outrider band here
and Rush .. im a big rush fan
I was suprised he kicked ass that nite
aw we played barmitzfahs and dances that is as far as we got
have only one recording
I last saw mr Plant ... , hmm, benefit gig at the local tennis club :)
hey that's public
led zeppelin was Page's band he hired the rest
Mr. Rock and Roll
page and plant .. thats what really made it rock
he's the guy everyone's mother warned them about
For what it's worth...I have commissioned some art posters of hendrix and clapton for my music room
That says it all I guess
you said ..
dmess remembers rush s a bar/ highschool band
[23:25:40] <pfred1> http://184.108.40.206:10000/new/Jimmy_Page_1.jpg
Yeah I met a guy that is a really good illustrator
how the hell he play that thing slung so low?
I am putting him on some cnc cam logos too
he is good
pfred1: ever seen Wilco Johnson?
EC is GODZ
ex Dr Feelgood
Rush never impressed me i went to school with a kid who was a better drumemr than Niel Pert
now .. Wilco plays it low .. and even behind his head .. thats kewl
pfred1: saw them on the last tour, Rush still rock
Better than Neil... i'd have to witness... He has no rival on a 27 pc kit
I used to be kind of heavily involved with guitars, guitar making , and audio a long time ago.
a long time ago.
this kid named Brad miller his band covered Rush tunes and let me tell you Brad was fast and I guess you'd have to have seen him
seen AfriCan guitars...
im going, before the wife wakes up
* robin_sz waves
he was such a laid back guy though I guess he never pursued his talent
I must show you some of my old guitars sometime.
Now...I play mostly sitar.
I have to fix up some guitars i have here
some no name junkers I want to work on them
i have a friend like that... play like EC all nit.. ask him to hit the stage.. he'd say no thank you
Some of my lutier friends use the cnc a bit
brad got into some cover bands I mean this guy could give me goose bumps when he played
I never ever heard anyone like him
trying tothink of best I ever heard
he was like an idiot savant
as donald did .... make it cry and sing..
because he wasn't very bright you know?
but man he could hold 4 beats
he'd freak me out showing me that
oh we all shared the small buss to school... ; (
aw overall...I'll say Hendrix
hendrix had no talent
he was a cover player
he was bad at first
if you listen to enough of him he didn't really have a whole lot of range really
sure he had some neat tricks
but overall I think even he knew it
well he has the biggest poster in my music room
yeah he knew how to be on a stage
iv got a pbs video of the crossroads...
I think I got like every live show he's ever recorded
many were technically better
now he's God
guitar gods show... awesome
John Mclaughlin could make even God get down on his knees
whos heard Classical Gas??
I've got a ton of his stuff
him and Al Dimeola
al is good
ah solo I'm not so into him he's good with John though
he's sort of sterile alone
you seen the Zeppelin DVD?
I got a rip of it here
it's very cool
I downloaded it off usenet
have to put things into perspective
my spring was a while ago
send along... ;)
I learned the guitar when I was 14 and heard the beatles
I been playing since i was 16 I still haven't learned :)
but I'm having fun!
took lessons though for a while
i took a few I was like this isn't what I am looking for
same here wont attes to carrying a tube in a ucket though
dmess I can throw some of the extras onto my server for you
in my teens guitar and music and sound was it
that was life
the main files are pretty big I've have to slice them
sure wifeys a LARGE Zep fan
same with my son now
les you wanted to be Dick Dale huh?
if you're that old you should know who Dick Dale is!
I am not that old.
Dick Dale and the Deltones
he was big in the 60's
too far back..I was messin my diapers then
he played west coast surf music fastest guitarist that's ever lived
really.. there was a sixties??
he could melt a pick
sixties were cool...we played music...free love...took lsd.
I can hear his "big song" in my head i forget it's name though
same thing we did in the 80s
hmm.. sonds like Canada
maybe it's an every 20 year thing?
we bitch .. no war..
burn some herb.. get em all buzzed and sneak home..
I now have an 18 year old son that has high grades but has dropped out of college to play in a rock band.
what do I say?
Canadian military practice, raising their hands over their heads
go for it.
with them thinkin were off doing somethin'
les entertainment is a viable business today not everything school teaches the same can be said
* anonimasu nods
no... we can hide better tha osama...bin hidin
really I think as things go on art will be more important a career for humans
things like CNC marginalize humans
gifted math program inscholl...now plays a stratocaster. I say fine.
no make him play a Gibson!
I am not gonna be likre my parents were
Fenders are crap!
it's not the guitar that matter's it's who's playing it :)
yeah i got this one part of that zep where Jimmy plays this total piece of crap guitar
i like my REGENT vintage sears 1971
oh fenders are cool...plate voltage 50% over max...TWANG
but man he wails on it!
I should just rip out that passage
Fender amps are the true meaning of wonderfu lthird harmonic distortion
pf you statement about margiinalizing humans would seem in error to me..
we are but the interface to a new medium...
pity...we need a serious party in my music room. Drink beer and argue...when we can hear over the music.
ah it's a Danelectric guitar Jimmy is using
yeah it's a total POS
I gotta rip this one passage
listen to the sound of this...
[23:49:31] <dmess> http://www.messier-dowty.com/programs/787.asp
the danelectro electric sitar was so cool
[23:49:54] <dmess> http://www.gruhnguitars.com/afri-can/acan.html
and was made out of chipboard heh
he's own is a bit drug inspired.
lookin for the link to the sound rm
ack even this is going to be huge!
well I'll throw it on my server who wants to try to get this? I cna only up at like 30KB/s it's 120MB
I can do that
i should too.. but 1 at a time
this is fun..I sure like music.
I should try to reencode it to a smaller codec
I bet i could reencode it to 60% of it's size and not lose anything
well this is fun
les what is?
yeah let me try to reeocode this clip
remember I was an audio r&d engineer at shure bros a long time ago
designed rock stage gear and stuff
les remember this thing got recorded in like 1970
but it still looks good
downlading some stuff now
woo my system is managing 46 fps on this rip