#emc | Logs for 2005-04-03

[13:54:41] <anonimasu> les: the major trouble is that I have too low spindle rpm's to increase my feed further
[13:58:29] <anonimasu> http://epubl.luth.se/1402-1617/2003/307/LTU-EX-03307-SE.pdf
[14:00:05] <les> yours?
[14:00:24] <anonimasu> no
[14:00:37] <anonimasu> found it while looking for media about HSM
[14:00:43] <les> oh
[14:00:49] <anonimasu> seems like a good read..
[14:01:17] <anonimasu> I could machine at hsm speeds with a vital.. although the limit's the machine rigidity..
[14:01:52] <les> and lots of power
[14:01:55] <anonimasu> yeah..
[14:02:13] <anonimasu> I think building a router just for machining alu would be a good deal..
[14:02:24] <les> like the 7kW 24000 spindle I am trying to get
[14:02:28] <anonimasu> yeah
[14:03:18] <anonimasu> 250mm/s is what most people say is hsm in alu..
[14:03:34] <les> mine has about .02mm deflection for 500n at the spindle...enough stiffnes for metal
[14:03:45] <anonimasu> I wonder how stiff my mill is..
[14:03:53] <les> measure it
[14:03:54] <anonimasu> I could always re-build the whole Z column..
[14:03:57] <paul_c> Morning John
[14:03:59] <anonimasu> how?
[14:04:02] <jmkasunich> morning paul
[14:04:16] <jmkasunich> having some problems installing BDI-4.20 here
[14:04:33] <anonimasu> les: with a dial indicator?
[14:04:39] <les> anon: spring scale and indicator
[14:04:39] <paul_c> Got a suggestion for you after seeing a hal_vital driver go in....
[14:04:40] <jmkasunich> is it supposed to work with SCSI drives?
[14:04:49] <anonimasu> I should do that..
[14:05:05] <anonimasu> I could always have somone cast me a concrete pillar.. and replace the column..
[14:05:17] <jmkasunich> what's the suggestion?
[14:05:19] <paul_c> never tested with SCSI
[14:05:21] <anonimasu> and grind the rail mount surfaces..
[14:05:28] <anonimasu> but that's so much work
[14:05:40] <les> anon do you have a picture of your machine?
[14:05:46] <anonimasu> not atm..
[14:05:58] <anonimasu> I can get one later tonight
[14:06:16] <anonimasu> round column.. benchtop mill
[14:06:18] <paul_c> suggestion: Move the pin/signal/whatever routines in to a central lib so that they are not replicated in each driver.
[14:06:36] <anonimasu> http://www.computersculpture.com/Images/Flashcut_Mill_9100_01.jpg
[14:06:38] <anonimasu> very close to that one
[14:06:55] <paul_c> and is 45 chars for a function name really a good idea ?
[14:07:02] <jmkasunich> yes, something along those lines needs to be done... but the actual list of pins/sigs/etc that gets exported is device specific
[14:07:12] <anonimasu> argh :)
[14:08:11] <jmkasunich> one of the ideas Jon Stark has for the refactor is revising the namespace a little, that would help the long name issue
[14:08:17] <paul_c> Is there really that many different signal/pin name combinations ?
[14:08:48] <jmkasunich> right now the format is <drivername>.<pinname>
[14:09:39] <les> anon...yeah replace column with solid or fill it
[14:09:40] <jmkasunich> digital ins use pin-<number>-in for <pinname>, digital outs use pin-<number>-out
[14:10:02] <jmkasunich> other things like encoders, dacs, adcs, step generators, etc, all have their own conventions
[14:10:44] <paul_c> static int Device_ExportDigitalOutPinsParametersFunctions(Device *this, int componentId, int boardId); - Two things wrong with this line IMO
[14:11:29] <jmkasunich> is that the 45 char long funct name you were referring to?
[14:12:14] <paul_c> One example...
[14:12:24] <jmkasunich> I thought you meant a HAL function
[14:12:40] <jmkasunich> that function is static to the driver... it really doesn't matter how long it is
[14:14:00] <jmkasunich> anyway, what are the two things wrong with it?
[14:15:21] <paul_c> doesn't fit in with the CodingStyle doc (for the func. name)... and 'this' is a reserved keyword (in C++)
[14:15:49] <jmkasunich> yeah, I got the impression that Pete was trying to do C++ style stuff there
[14:16:27] <paul_c> My concern is... What is the point of agreeing on a coding style if no one bothers to follow it ?
[14:16:32] <jmkasunich> I suppose I should have said something about it, but otoh, when somebody is contributing code
[14:17:15] <jmkasunich> it's hard to tell them "hey, we don't like your code, do it over"
[14:18:08] <paul_c> a gentle "ahem.. Could you read the ***.doc and reconsider some conformance"
[14:19:12] <jmkasunich> I'll approach Pete about it
[14:19:25] <paul_c> (minor point..)
[14:20:46] <jmkasunich> re putting the pin/sig/etc routines... the actual routines to export the pins and such are in the hal lib... the duplicated cruft in each driver is to build the pin name string, call the lib, and errorcheck the return
[14:21:03] <jmkasunich> it would be nice if that could be turned into a loop that reads a table somehow
[14:21:50] <jmkasunich> so instead of 25 repetitions of the same 4-5 line chunk with a couple names changed, there could be a 25 line table that is read by a lib function
[14:22:36] <jmkasunich> something to think about at fest perhaps
[14:22:48] <paul_c> certainly as far as a hardware driver is concerned, the data types and functions are very limited.
[14:23:29] <jmkasunich> why don't we discuss it at fest
[14:23:46] <jmkasunich> I want to get this 4.2 install working, and I also have 8" of snow to clear this morning
[14:23:53] <jmkasunich> (springtime in Cleveland)
[14:24:14] <paul_c> Snow - Leave it for the sun to thaw it out...
[14:24:25] <jmkasunich> can't get in or out of the driveway
[14:24:41] <paul_c> an excuse for skipping work.
[14:24:59] <jmkasunich> lately there aren't any excuses... I was in there for nearly 8 hours yesterday
[14:25:32] <jmkasunich> anyway... 4.2
[14:25:42] <jmkasunich> (persistent, aren't I?)
[14:25:54] <jmkasunich> it's not recognizing the disk drives
[14:26:42] <jmkasunich> when you get to the screen where you choose auto or manual partitioning, no matter which you pick, it says something like "no devices on which to make filesystems" and reboots
[14:26:44] <paul_c> are they seen by 4.18 ?
[14:26:50] <jmkasunich> don't have 4.18
[14:27:04] <jmkasunich> they are seen by BDI-TNG - I did a successfull install of that last night
[14:27:38] <jmkasunich> I did ctrl-alt-F2 while in the installer to get a shell
[14:27:52] <paul_c> what SCSI controller is fitted ?
[14:28:00] <jmkasunich> /proc/scsi/scsi says the disks are there
[14:28:11] <jmkasunich> symbios
[14:28:22] <jmkasunich> it is loading sym53C8xx driver
[14:28:39] <jmkasunich> /proc/partitions sees the partitions from the TNG install
[14:28:51] <jmkasunich> but /dev shows _nothing_ like sda, sdb, etc
[14:29:27] <jmkasunich> these disks were formerly used with a hardware raid controller, it might have messed with the partition tables
[14:29:45] <jmkasunich> (that's why I did the TNG install, I thought it might over-write the tables with valid stuff)
[14:30:24] <jmkasunich> /proc/modules says raid modules are being loaded... is that normal, or is the kernel seeing raid remmanents in the partition table and loading them
[14:31:25] <jmkasunich> anyway, the installer is active right now (paused at the first screen) and I have a shell prompt in another tty... I was hoping you could walk me thru some things
[14:31:54] <paul_c> You say no /dev/s* entries ?
[14:32:01] <jmkasunich> yep
[14:32:18] <paul_c> what about /dev/scsi/ ?
[14:32:18] <jmkasunich> no /dev/hd* entries either, even tho I'm installing from a IDE cdrom
[14:32:40] <jmkasunich> nope
[14:32:40] <paul_c> the CDROM should be /dev/cdrom
[14:32:56] <jmkasunich> not there
[14:33:35] <rayh> dev/cdrom never works!
[14:34:09] <jmkasunich> /etc/mtab says /tmp/cdrom is mounted on /mnt/source
[14:34:26] <jmkasunich> and /tmp/loop0 is mounted on /mnt/runtime
[14:34:47] <paul_c> see if the scsi entries are in /tmp
[14:35:49] <jmkasunich> nope... neither is /tmp/cdrom
[14:35:59] <jmkasunich> /tmp/loop0 is there, a block device
[14:36:41] <jmkasunich> does the install run chrooted or something? maybe I'm looking in the wrong /dev?
[14:38:30] <paul_c> grep ps for udev
[14:38:49] <jmkasunich> ps?
[14:39:24] <jmkasunich> duh
[14:39:54] <jmkasunich> not there
[14:40:24] <jmkasunich> ps does show [scsi_eh_0], whatever that is
[14:41:52] <paul_c> * paul_c is checking some docs
[14:42:42] <Imperator_> jmkasunich: try "df" that shows also which partition is mountet
[14:44:29] <jmkasunich> df shows "rootfs", "/dev/root.old", "/tmp/cdrom", and "/tmp/loop0"
[14:45:15] <Imperator_> did it not tell you who is /temp/cdrom ???
[14:45:37] <paul_c> Looks like a SCSI detection problem was reported early last month... No follow up has been posted.
[14:46:05] <jmkasunich> a 2.6 problem?
[14:46:33] <paul_c> anaconda prob.
[14:47:04] <jmkasunich> does 4.20 normally load modules "raid5", "raid1", "raid0" and "md"?
[14:47:56] <paul_c> LVM & Raid is part of the installer, so I would expect the modules to be loaded sometimes.
[14:48:04] <jmkasunich> in the early stages of the install (before it switches to X) it _does_ load the sym53C8xx driver
[14:48:40] <Imperator_> jmkasunich: I have a short question about HAL
[14:48:57] <jmkasunich> shoot
[14:50:02] <Imperator_> if I look with halcmd at HAL, then it shows in the last section the threads and which functions are connected with each thread. the functions have numbers. Is that order the order they are called each period ?????
[14:50:06] <jmkasunich> paul_c: but they would only be loaded if the install kernel detected what it thought was a raid drive, right?
[14:51:22] <jmkasunich> Imperator_: yes
[14:51:32] <Imperator_> very good
[14:51:35] <Imperator_> thanks
[14:52:04] <Imperator_> so the integrater has to take care that this order is the right one
[14:52:11] <jmkasunich> yes
[14:52:25] <Imperator_> ok, thats what i want to know
[14:54:22] <paul_c> jmkasunich: Can you bring that box with you to the codeFest ?
[14:54:40] <jmkasunich> I was hoping to... cause I wanted to start working with kernel 2.6
[14:55:11] <Imperator_> btw. the EMC_FPGA_SERVO card will be borne this month
[14:55:56] <rayh> Imperator_: Could you describe that a bit.
[14:57:31] <Imperator_> a ISA card that can controll four Servos. mostly based on one FPGA and one DAC chip. The FPGA does the adress decoding, encoder and IO stuff
[14:58:17] <jmkasunich> paul_c: I actually have two very similar boxes
[14:58:47] <Imperator_> 4x 16bit DAC out; 4x encoder in; 16 digital out; 16 digital in; and a expansion port for everything we have forgotten
[14:59:05] <jmkasunich> one is a single P2-400, the other a dual P3-600, but the same product family and architecture
[14:59:26] <jmkasunich> dual SCSI drives, one IDE cdrom, one floppy
[14:59:37] <jmkasunich> 2U high rackmount
[14:59:58] <jmkasunich> I'll bring them both... but I really want to get 4.20 working on something before then
[15:00:16] <rayh> Imperator_: sehr gut
[15:00:23] <Imperator_> :-) Danke
[15:01:05] <paul_c> jmkasunich: When were you planning on getting to Gaithersburg ?
[15:01:11] <jmkasunich> sunday evening
[15:01:49] <paul_c> I'll be there a few days earlier...
[15:01:58] <rayh> Imperator_: Have you settled on a price?
[15:02:34] <jmkasunich> unfortunately my wife is traveling thursday-sunday, I can't leave earlier because nobody would be home to take care of critters
[15:03:07] <Imperator_> rayh: we don't know if we ever sell it. It will get open source when it is finished. Maybe we build some to sell, but, ......
[15:03:46] <jmkasunich> she's also away this week, which is why I really wanted to get the install going... when wife is away, John does lots of coding
[15:04:16] <paul_c> short term fix - Bung an IDE drive in.
[15:04:23] <rayh> Hey. I like that hardware model.
[15:04:30] <jmkasunich> not so easy
[15:04:51] <rayh> How are you writing and compiling the FPGA code?
[15:05:02] <jmkasunich> 2U high rackmount server... nicely laid out, but no extra space
[15:05:16] <Imperator_> rayh: the hardware is about 150EUR I think.
[15:05:27] <jmkasunich> (the SCSI drives are in hot plug carriers and plug into a small backplane)
[15:05:46] <Imperator_> I can't write the software at the moment for FPGSs. That is the part of another german guy
[15:06:05] <jmkasunich> is anaconda responsible for detecting the drives and setting up their /dev entries?
[15:06:38] <paul_c> nope - That is the function of the linux subsystem.
[15:07:00] <jmkasunich> so then the anaconda bug that was reported isn't the problem here...
[15:07:15] <paul_c> probably an error in discover/kudzu/udev
[15:07:30] <paul_c> (the bug was reported on the anaconda list)
[15:07:41] <jmkasunich> oh
[15:08:05] <jmkasunich> I wonder why /proc knows about them
[15:08:28] <paul_c> but as anaconda relies on the linux runtime, it is the place to file a bug report.
[15:08:56] <paul_c> /proc knows about the scsi hardware because the modules are loaded.
[15:09:05] <jmkasunich> it also knows about the drives
[15:09:15] <jmkasunich> and /proc/partitions knows about the partitions on those drives
[15:09:17] <jmkasunich> phone
[15:09:37] <jmkasunich> back
[15:09:40] <rayh> I've looked at some of the open source FPGA stuff but have not a clue how capable it is.
[15:09:58] <jmkasunich> here's a thought... /proc/partitions gives major and minor dev numbers for the partitions
[15:10:13] <jmkasunich> could I do mkdev and make /dev entries for them, then try running the installer?
[15:11:04] <paul_c> the installer is already running...
[15:11:28] <Jymmm> jmkasunich what scsi controller do you have again? symbois or something?
[15:11:30] <paul_c> * paul_c is thinking a bug in pivotroot/chroot
[15:11:31] <rayh> Imperator_: I've been wondering for a while...
[15:11:44] <Imperator_> rayh: we are using a ALTERA FPGA and the software from them, I think
[15:11:55] <rayh> The FPGA runs at it's own speed...
[15:12:08] <rayh> okay. I'll have a look when I get time.
[15:12:50] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: symbios, at least it's loading the sym53c8xx driver
[15:13:02] <jmkasunich> BDI-TNG loaded the same driver when it did it's successfull install
[15:13:24] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Ah, cool =)
[15:14:18] <jmkasunich> duh... it's mknod, not mkdev...
[15:14:53] <rayh> Do you think that there are harmonic issues between the FPGA speed and EMC speed?
[15:15:26] <paul_c> jmkasunich: Is there anything in /dev ?
[15:15:38] <jmkasunich> yeah... not a lot, you want the list?
[15:15:46] <paul_c> please
[15:15:57] <jmkasunich> about 49 entries, I
[15:16:09] <jmkasunich> I'd have to type them into the IRC window
[15:16:38] <paul_c> that will keep you quiet for ten mins... ;)
[15:16:38] <jmkasunich> mapper, log, fb, urandom, random, nst0, st0
[15:17:12] <paul_c> /msg ?
[15:23:01] <Imperator_> rayh: I don't think so
[15:31:38] <Dmess> hi all...i dreamt of GRUB..
[15:32:41] <Dmess> im sure its barfin when it probes the HD bios to find the MBR
[15:32:50] <anonimasu> hm.. I am milling this part now agaain..
[15:32:55] <anonimasu> Dmess: 3.5mm Z down this time..
[15:33:03] <robin_sz> Imperator_: I should be abkle to start playing with my Xilinx FPGA soo
[15:33:05] <robin_sz> n
[15:33:13] <Dmess> sounds good to me... run it
[15:33:17] <paul_c> check your BIOS and set the HDD to LBA mode.
[15:33:24] <anonimasu> oh is been cutting for 5 minutes
[15:33:40] <Imperator_> robin_sz: try to get the PCI stuff running !!!
[15:33:46] <Dmess> ive done that..
[15:34:02] <robin_sz> Imperator_: I could have ordered their PCI dev card to do that ...
[15:34:15] <robin_sz> Imperator_: protel has PCI development too
[15:34:55] <Imperator_> I don't understand realy, do you have a PCI devel board ??
[15:35:01] <robin_sz> no
[15:35:05] <Imperator_> ok
[15:35:17] <robin_sz> I have a basic Spartan3 dev kit
[15:35:27] <Imperator_> jup
[15:35:41] <rayh> I see Altera has free MS(tm) development but charge for Linux or Unix.
[15:35:43] <robin_sz> I think they have a special card ready made for PCI dev
[15:36:10] <Imperator_> there are a lot of that PCI boards
[15:36:15] <robin_sz> rayh: have you tried the Xilinx "web pack ISE" development tool?
[15:37:00] <rayh> No. I'm an observer or fan rather than a player!
[15:37:08] <robin_sz> well,
[15:37:35] <robin_sz> can you draw a circuit? logic gates, connect a counter to a latch etc?
[15:38:34] <robin_sz> you may never actually get around to burning it onto an FPGA ..
[15:38:41] <rayh> I could do that -- as some beginners level.
[15:38:50] <robin_sz> but it is a fun tool to play with for an hour or two
[15:39:23] <robin_sz> perhaps what is most amazing is to compare it to something like the Rabbit C development thing ...
[15:39:42] <robin_sz> Rabbit charge $200 a time for a very basic dev enviroment
[15:40:00] <robin_sz> Xilinx give their tool away for free ... and it really really ROCKS!
[15:40:11] <robin_sz> quite stunning.
[15:40:16] <rayh> Yea. And the os rabbit stuff is pretty crude.
[15:40:28] <robin_sz> yeah, just plain old C
[15:40:29] <Dmess> is there any way i can ad lilo to the 4.2 CD
[15:41:03] <robin_sz> did anyone see that FPGA DES cracker in the news this week?
[15:41:54] <robin_sz> at current speeds, DES brute-force takes about 75 years ...
[15:42:21] <robin_sz> this guy gad 16K parallel attempts running in an high speed FPGA
[15:43:03] <robin_sz> soes it in 25 hours average ... and hed extracted some keys in a test of the IBM security core used in ATM machines ...
[15:43:55] <robin_sz> apparently he informed IBM of the weaknesses a year ago, but they did nothing .. so he published the code ;)
[15:47:25] <Jymmm> robin_sz Who brute-forces DES anymore?
[15:50:01] <robin_sz> mmm ..it was triple DES
[15:50:04] <robin_sz> not single
[15:50:42] <Jymmm> robin_sz: Heh, I trust no algo released by NSA anymore =)
[15:50:53] <robin_sz> oh I dunno ...
[15:51:05] <Jymmm> SHA is already fubared
[15:51:13] <robin_sz> not really
[15:51:29] <robin_sz> technically, yes
[15:51:33] <robin_sz> practically, no
[15:51:37] <Jymmm> robin_sz: Actually yeah it is, not even collisions
[15:51:49] <robin_sz> paper?
[15:52:05] <Jymmm> JAS
[15:52:29] <Jymmm> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/02/sha1_broken.html
[15:52:43] <robin_sz> exactly
[15:52:48] <Jymmm> robin_sz: Bruce is the author of the BLOWFISH algo
[15:52:54] <robin_sz> Id seen bruces paper already
[15:54:42] <Jymmm> I'm already looking for another hashing algo personally
[15:56:56] <robin_sz> im not
[15:57:03] <pfred1> of what?
[15:57:16] <Jymmm> pfred1 hashing algo
[15:57:17] <robin_sz> looking for an SHA-1 alternative
[15:57:36] <pfred1> man out of hash that's got to be a splitting headache!
[15:57:57] <Jymmm> robin_sz: SHA512:robin:071b38098125700fe49e65ef0059bfda1fbd110472a8d7490e0b3af6a8260712f958b9c7f27be61a8ddfe4fecb71f9e8002360f894f06dd4b1f383963d71db41
[15:58:05] <robin_sz> the most secure thing I ever send is my CC number ... and that can be got at much more easily
[15:58:48] <Jymmm> robin_sz: I didn't say encryption algo, just a new hashing algo
[15:59:13] <robin_sz> fair point
[15:59:50] <Jymmm> robin_sz: I do quite a bit with cryptography, but not necessarily encryption itself.
[15:59:50] <pfred1> Jymmm red blonde or black?
[16:00:02] <robin_sz> I suppose I have a few server certs i guess
[16:00:17] <robin_sz> if someoen really wanted to imoersonate us ...
[16:00:22] <pfred1> robin_sz worried about fresh breath?
[16:00:32] <robin_sz> nah.
[16:00:33] <pfred1> don't want bong breath?
[16:00:40] <Jymmm> lol
[16:00:58] <pfred1> certs with flavor resin!
[16:01:09] <robin_sz> oh no the place is full of pot-heads
[16:01:33] <pfred1> I took a drive up to connicuit to be with a bunch of potheads once
[16:01:43] <pfred1> Quimper was having a wareshouse sale
[16:01:49] <Jymmm> pfred1 what was her name?
[16:01:56] <pfred1> Henriot
[16:02:02] <pfred1> Henriot Quimper
[16:02:25] <pfred1> http://www.quimperfaience.com/
[16:02:30] <pfred1> pot heads!
[16:03:03] <Jymmm> robin_sz: hey, got my hdd issue fixed (fscking M$)
[16:03:04] <pfred1> stonington is a cute little town
[16:03:12] <robin_sz> its in amaerica
[16:03:19] <pfred1> yeah they bought them out
[16:03:39] <pfred1> where else would a buncha potheads be but in stonington?
[16:04:06] <robin_sz> jail?
[16:04:11] <robin_sz> the dole queue?
[16:04:20] <alex_joni> hello
[16:04:28] <robin_sz> * robin_sz winds up pfred1
[16:04:39] <jmkasunich> my stepson's bedroom.
[16:04:39] <alex_joni> * alex_joni waves
[16:04:42] <jmkasunich> hi alex
[16:04:50] <pfred1> jmkasunich ha ha!
[16:04:57] <alex_joni> hey john
[16:06:19] <pfred1> marijuanna, marijuanna, LSD, LSD, all the doctors make it, all the teachers take it, why can't we? why can't we?
[16:06:44] <pfred1> roll roll roll a joint pass it down the line take a hit it's all you need to blow your fscking mind!
[16:07:09] <robin_sz> hmmm.
[16:08:12] <robin_sz> some can ... some can't ... I have mates that have smoked alsorts fo shit for years, no real downside it seems ...
[16:08:54] <robin_sz> I know one guy (lets call him Alex, because thats his name) that went out of his tree on it ... never to return to sanity ..
[16:08:58] <pfred1> robin_sz are you saying that reality is for people who can't handle drugs?
[16:09:31] <pfred1> Reefer Madness!
[16:09:36] <alex_joni> I resent any possible match of the name ;)
[16:09:44] <pfred1> man that movie isn't even funny stoned
[16:09:45] <robin_sz> im saying some people just don't mix well with droogs ...
[16:09:56] <robin_sz> some do of course,
[16:09:58] <rayh> I see quite a bit of xilinx stuff for redhat enterprise 3...
[16:10:05] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands pfred1 'Clockwork Orange' dvd
[16:10:05] <alex_joni> hey ray
[16:10:15] <rayh> Hi alex.
[16:10:26] <pfred1> Jymmm peeting moloko with knives in it?
[16:10:28] <rayh> Snow is going away these days.
[16:10:35] <alex_joni> heh.. cool
[16:10:44] <jmkasunich> rayh: we got 8" since yesterday morning
[16:10:51] <pfred1> rayh well i can offer you a little rain in it's place
[16:10:52] <alex_joni> I played tennis the other day (the first time this year)
[16:11:18] <Jymmm> we bbq'ed yesterday... was warm and sunny !
[16:11:23] <rayh> Lake is still frozen enough for walking and ice fishing.
[16:11:27] <robin_sz> pfred1: Alex was a reasoanble guy .. but it fried his brain, didn't know which way was up, couldn't hold a conversation, would piss himself just sitting there ...
[16:11:51] <pfred1> robin_sz well he may have ended up that way anyways
[16:11:59] <robin_sz> pfred1: nah
[16:12:14] <robin_sz> pfred1: it was a peyote cactus trip that did it ...
[16:12:16] <rayh> Anyone got a clue how much work I'd have to do to get a rh ep3 program to run on BDI 4.xx?
[16:12:19] <pfred1> robin_sz he did this smoking pot?
[16:12:23] <pfred1> ah mescaline
[16:12:42] <alex_joni> rayh: binaries?
[16:12:43] <pfred1> * pfred1 likes the green microdots the best with those ...
[16:12:45] <rayh> "lickin' frogs"
[16:13:03] <robin_sz> yeah, fried him ... I last saw him 2 years after the event, he was no better.
[16:13:05] <pfred1> ribbit!
[16:13:20] <rayh> I do NOT wish I was 18 again!
[16:13:22] <pfred1> best trip I ever had was double dosed cubes
[16:13:36] <pfred1> man talk about losing your face!
[16:13:47] <robin_sz> shrug ... I'll stick to beer, thanks anyway.
[16:14:11] <pfred1> yeah 10 minutes after we dropped those we have a few regrets ourselves
[16:14:16] <jmkasunich> robin_sz: same here
[16:14:17] <pfred1> but it was all fun!
[16:14:57] <pfred1> sober as a board our perception of "reality" is pretty warped as it is
[16:15:08] <paul_c> rayh: Is it an RPM or a tarball ?
[16:15:08] <pfred1> so what's any of it matter?
[16:15:21] <pfred1> aren't RPMs tarballs with spec files?
[16:15:48] <robin_sz> whenever I get the urge to experiment, I just read Alexander Shulgins stuff and dont bother withthe actual experience
[16:16:02] <robin_sz> now, he must have a fried brain.
[16:16:14] <pfred1> robin_sz ah but there's no replacement for infinity in an instant in my experiences
[16:16:35] <robin_sz> pfred1: have you read Shulgin's stuff?
[16:16:48] <pfred1> hot don't try to siphon gas with a hose tripping!
[16:17:06] <pfred1> nah furthest i ever got was Alodus Huxley
[16:17:08] <robin_sz> pfred1: Phikal etc
[16:17:29] <pfred1> him and whoever wrote the electric koolaid acid trip?
[16:17:46] <robin_sz> http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal.shtml
[16:18:24] <robin_sz> basically, the guy synthesised and took every phenyl amine he could dream up
[16:18:33] <robin_sz> and documented the results
[16:18:40] <pfred1> robin_sz yeah that's the funny hting isn't it any drug in order to work just mimics what's already in us anyways
[16:18:51] <robin_sz> then they locked him up for it .. because America is the land of the free.
[16:19:03] <pfred1> we're all hauling around Controlled Dangerious Substances!
[16:19:15] <robin_sz> errm. not quite as simple as that ..
[16:19:26] <rayh> paul_c: Don't know. They just advertize that their design stuff will run under ep3.
[16:20:02] <alex_joni> rayh: will be probably bin
[16:20:14] <robin_sz> anyway .. back to motion control ;)
[16:20:29] <rayh> Yea that is what I was worried about.
[16:20:42] <alex_joni> or one of those .sh with bins inside
[16:20:44] <alex_joni> :(
[16:20:49] <paul_c> rayh: Got a url for the files ?
[16:21:03] <rayh> robin_sz: What did you run your xilinx stuff under?
[16:21:06] <alex_joni> rayh: but with the same kernel & libc it should run on bdi too
[16:21:09] <robin_sz> rayh: XP ..
[16:21:15] <robin_sz> rayh: works a treat
[16:22:05] <rayh> * rayh digs back through the days history.
[16:24:21] <rayh> damned web site looping!
[16:24:40] <pfred1> rayh well that's what happens when you surf them furry pr0n sites!
[16:24:43] <Jymmm> rayh turn off your cookie cruncher =)
[16:25:04] <pfred1> free pr0n just give us your CC number
[16:25:50] <rayh> http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xebiz/productview_ise.jsp?sGlobalNavPick=PURCHASE&sSecondaryNavPick=&category=-21393&iLanguageID=1&category=/Xilinx+Products/Design+Resources/Design+Tools/ISE+Logic+Design+Tools
[16:26:14] <rayh> part way down the page is a free link to "index" which requires registration.
[16:26:33] <Jymmm> nobody/password ?! =)
[16:27:27] <rayh> aside, I suppose that after a while "they" all get to looking the same.
[16:28:56] <pfred1> minimess how's booting going?
[16:29:15] <minimess> trying a full install again..
[16:29:26] <pfred1> picking lilo I hope this time?
[16:29:49] <minimess> EMC's icons only brought up a popimage and went away
[16:30:15] <minimess> it has no option to pick lilo on the install cd
[16:30:35] <pfred1> jeez what utter crap!
[16:31:21] <minimess> that i could find any way... remember im a dummy though ..i fly aircraft with no engines
[16:31:34] <pfred1> gliders?
[16:31:46] <pfred1> * pfred1 pulls up a glider and has a seat ...
[16:31:52] <minimess> hang and para yes...
[16:32:37] <rayh> minimess: Try a cd to /usr/local/emc and sudo ./generic.run in a terminal.
[16:33:05] <minimess> too late now im into the install...
[16:33:14] <pfred1> rayh he can't even get it to boot up
[16:33:17] <rayh> Do we have a NML discussion page on the wiki?
[16:33:24] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[16:33:32] <alex_joni_away> * alex_joni_away is back later
[16:34:19] <stevestallings> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CustomNMLMessage
[16:34:33] <minimess> i was having to rescue the root partition cause GRUB wouldnt find it
[16:34:43] <rayh> minimess: said "EMC's icons only brought up a popimage and went away"
[16:35:00] <rayh> I thought that sounded like a click on the desktop?
[16:35:32] <minimess> yes.. it was..
[16:36:21] <rayh> Okay. The popup means that the link behind the icon found a run file but lost it somewhere during startup.
[16:37:31] <minimess> it apperaed to me that something probes the HDD Bios for the MBR i guess...and it doesnt like that part.. LILO from an older dist let me rescue it
[16:38:25] <minimess> but since EMC was causing issues.. i decided to rip and replace.
[16:38:30] <rayh> I've had some trouble with GRUB configuration when installing live.
[16:39:06] <minimess> i couldnt get LIVE to stick on that system iether..
[16:40:25] <rayh> Most the the trouble I had was with the boot partition and root partition numbers.
[16:40:51] <minimess> thats where in lies MY trouble too i believe...
[16:41:10] <pfred1> yeah fdisk -p
[16:41:12] <minimess> boot is HDA1 root is HDA2
[16:41:18] <rayh> Had to boot from cd, mount the hd and edit the menu.lst file.
[16:41:46] <jmkasunich> what is fdisk -p?
[16:41:51] <minimess> doer Grub go in the /boot partition and point to the / root part.
[16:42:06] <rayh> GRUB numbers partition 1 as 0.
[16:42:35] <pfred1> right on page five of the manual it says, "Open mind before operating."
[16:42:43] <minimess> so my had2 would be had1??
[16:42:48] <pfred1> heh
[16:43:00] <minimess> hda
[16:43:21] <rayh> root (hd0,0)
[16:43:37] <pfred1> whoops p is in it l is the switch
[16:43:46] <rayh> I made a /boot partition first and that is what Anaconda gave me.
[16:44:12] <pfred1> jmkasunich it sucks when your systems just work you forget a lot of this stuff
[16:44:52] <rayh> jmkasunich: I wish I had that problem!
[16:44:54] <minimess> i have a /boot there as well.. hda1
[16:45:47] <rayh> Then /boot/grub/menu.lst should read (0,0) to find the boot image.
[16:46:33] <minimess> i can do that AT the GRUB> prompt right..
[16:47:39] <minimess> should i do a setup(hd0) as well...
[16:47:40] <rayh> Never tried. Always hand edited the .lst file.
[16:49:43] <rayh> * rayh starts another box.
[16:51:12] <rayh> * rayh confesses ignorance of most grub stuff.
[16:55:28] <rayh> This box shows root (hd0,0) for live rc46
[16:56:00] <rayh> root (hd0,5) for bdi 2.18
[16:56:25] <rayh> root (hd0,6) for bdi 2.20b
[16:56:56] <rayh> and root (hd1,0) for some experimental stuff.
[16:57:34] <rayh> I also add the full path to the linux kernel for each
[16:58:17] <minimess> can you e-mail a copy to me to see... mes_for_fun@yahoo.com
[16:58:28] <rayh> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.2.18-rtl3.0 root=/dev/hda7
[16:58:46] <rayh> Is what shows for bd--220b
[16:59:24] <rayh> So the root= points to the actual partition number while the boot is one less.
[17:00:03] <rayh> That ought to confuse the life out of most of us.
[17:00:30] <minimess> yes...
[17:00:35] <pfred1> maybe the MBR is 0 ?
[17:01:30] <rayh> On that box the MBR is saved to the MBR space.
[17:01:49] <rayh> That's where it finds grub.
[17:01:49] <pfred1> computers are so dumb they start counting at zero and can only count to one!
[17:01:59] <minimess> i thought all hdd were like that??
[17:02:24] <rayh> Live had the option of saving MBR on a partition. No clue why.
[17:02:43] <minimess> yes.. i tried that one too... ; )
[17:02:47] <pfred1> MBR is kind of a special partition isn't it?
[17:03:14] <rayh> Yep. And I wasted a few hds before I learned how to zero it out.
[17:03:46] <minimess> fdisk /mbr no??
[17:04:07] <rayh> Under a MS(tm) os yes.
[17:04:29] <rayh> With linux it is a dd of some sort.
[17:04:30] <minimess> does it also wipe out loli or grub??
[17:04:39] <rayh> I'd have to look back and find the reference.
[17:05:35] <pfred1> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda
[17:05:50] <pfred1> something like that
[17:05:57] <pfred1> probably with a stop too
[17:06:10] <minimess> very intuitive... NOT
[17:06:19] <rayh> Yes it had that and size and a stop.
[17:06:24] <pfred1> well that command would just fry your system
[17:06:46] <pfred1> it'd run for a bit but then it'd get really really strange then just die
[17:08:29] <rayh> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/HD count=1 bs=512
[17:08:55] <rayh> "Do not try this at home!"
[17:09:29] <rayh> the partition table will be all gone and will appear to be an unused drive.
[17:09:48] <jmkasunich> sounds like what I need to do to the box I'm fighting with right now
[17:10:10] <pfred1> jmkasunich either that or give it to this guy http://www.armory.com/~spcecdt/pyrotech/
[17:10:25] <jmkasunich> I still want to use the drives
[17:10:30] <rayh> To use dd to clear the boot code from a standard DOS MBR, do it this way:
[17:10:30] <rayh> code:
[17:10:30] <rayh> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda/ bs=446 count=1
[17:10:31] <rayh> This will wipe out the first 446 bytes, and stop just short of the beginning of the partition table.
[17:10:34] <jmkasunich> (to do a BDI-4.20 install)
[17:10:49] <rayh> from http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/history/300256
[17:11:37] <pfred1> damn the weather sucks here
[17:12:28] <rayh> Awesome here. Sun and 60f.
[17:12:48] <pfred1> well at least it's stopped raining
[17:13:00] <pfred1> Feels Like 35�F
[17:13:13] <pfred1> or so sayeth http://www.weather.com/weather/local/07901
[17:13:25] <rayh> Gotta run.
[17:13:25] <minimess> horizontal snow here..
[17:13:40] <minimess> thx ray... ; )
[17:13:49] <pfred1> minimess maybe it'd be a good idea to lie down?
[17:13:49] <rayh> no problem.
[17:13:59] <Jymmm> We have all the windows open here (and thinking of turning on the fan)
[17:14:18] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is in shorts and a tshirt too!
[17:14:26] <pfred1> Jymmm couple grams of freebase and I'd be right there with you!
[17:14:42] <Jymmm> pfred1 no controlled substances required =)
[17:14:47] <pfred1> man open the window it's hot!
[17:14:59] <jmkasunich> minimess - where are you - we have horizontal snow here too (Cleveland OH)
[17:15:17] <pfred1> jmkasunich Cleveland?
[17:15:29] <Jymmm> What comes from Ohio ?
[17:15:29] <pfred1> isn't that where Drew Carrey is from?
[17:15:42] <jmkasunich> yeah
[17:16:36] <pfred1> Have you done any spring planting yet?
[17:16:45] <robin_sz> dont bother
[17:16:49] <robin_sz> I did once ...
[17:16:55] <robin_sz> none of them grew
[17:17:02] <pfred1> I answered Yes, but just getting started
[17:17:07] <robin_sz> all just went rusty
[17:17:20] <Jymmm> robin_sz ya think that had anythign to do with the fact you don't own nor ever used a garden hose?
[17:17:46] <pfred1> hey God is supposed to take care of that aspect of it isn't he?
[17:18:02] <Jymmm> pfred1 go tell that to your local pot farmer =)
[17:18:14] <robin_sz> Jymmm: nah .. I watered em good, but springs just dont seem to grow
[17:18:25] <pfred1> Jymmm I don't think anyone's growing any funny stuff around here
[17:18:25] <Jymmm> s/pitchfork/6ft bong/
[17:19:00] <Jymmm> robin_sz potted or ground?
[17:19:01] <pfred1> in Columbia they have over 281,000 acres cultivated with just coca though ...
[17:19:07] <minimess> Oshawa Ontario
[17:19:22] <Jymmm> forget coca (unless medicinal)
[17:20:42] <minimess> we have medical exempions available for posession and cultivation
[17:20:54] <minimess> of herb
[17:21:14] <pfred1> yeah it'll bend your mind and twist your spine
[17:21:33] <pfred1> or just take away another way for politicians to be on the take if you leagalized it
[17:21:50] <minimess> best stuff on the planet comes from CANADA right now..
[17:21:58] <pfred1> yup BC bud
[17:22:06] <pfred1> chronic
[17:22:24] <Jymmm> herb is no biggy, just not fond of anything white
[17:22:31] <pfred1> they look like little christmas trees that have been out dusted in the snow ...
[17:22:33] <minimess> it was trading pound for pond with china white out west last summer
[17:22:46] <minimess> Quebec Gold too
[17:22:50] <pfred1> ah dope never been my thing
[17:23:06] <jmkasunich> rather off topic for this channel too
[17:23:13] <minimess> i grew babies for some fellows a while back..
[17:23:33] <pfred1> you can do a lot of machine controls for growing
[17:23:47] <pfred1> I've seen some very sophisticated setups
[17:23:56] <minimess> always had a hydroponic garden going anyway for veggies
[17:23:58] <pfred1> stuff that'd make you guys CNC stuff look like rook
[17:24:09] <pfred1> they got lota more money for hardware :)
[17:24:23] <minimess> no shit...
[17:24:38] <pfred1> humidity control very important
[17:24:55] <pfred1> freaking fake sun lights
[17:25:14] <minimess> ohhh they are real...trust me
[17:25:31] <pfred1> well they make lights that traverse the plants like it's the real sun
[17:25:32] <minimess> real $$$
[17:25:47] <Jymmm> * Jymmm imagines pfred1 standing by the freeway hold a sign that says "Will drug deal for CNC!"
[17:25:51] <pfred1> makes the stems stronger
[17:26:11] <minimess> yup moving tracks up yield by about 20-30%
[17:26:53] <minimess> slap them regularily and it makes the stems stronger
[17:27:48] <pfred1> http://pot.tv/
[17:28:50] <pfred1> More than 400 plants were grown with the use of computer-controlled hydroponics. http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=134262
[17:29:12] <pfred1> CNC budding!
[17:29:56] <jmkasunich> been putting it off long enough... gotta go clear snow off the driveway
[17:30:26] <pfred1> man shoveling snow
[17:43:13] <minimess> im not shovelling...
[17:43:32] <pfred1> minimess I'm watching pot TV myself
[17:43:56] <pfred1> shoveling is an American thing everyone else just drives over it
[17:44:09] <minimess> LOL... im thinkin' a twistin' a little root myself...
[18:03:50] <minimess> im getting...GRUB loading stage 1.5
[18:04:00] <pfred1> is that good?
[18:04:02] <minimess> Grub loading pls wait...
[18:04:10] <minimess> error 15...
[18:04:12] <minimess> FACK
[18:04:16] <pfred1> awwww
[18:04:28] <pfred1> google grub error 15
[18:04:31] <pfred1> I donno
[18:06:07] <minimess> im gonna try live again i think..
[18:28:07] <pfred1> dmess so is it official? Does 4.2 suck?
[18:30:02] <dmess> im thinkin' its a pantload for now...
[18:30:38] <dmess> im into it.. but its like russian dentistry... had to go in thru its ass...
[18:31:04] <dmess> and the EMC icons dont work...
[18:34:39] <dmess> paul's option returned freqmod not found... and cat open dependencies..
[18:34:50] <dmess> can't
[18:35:22] <pfred1> quality release
[18:36:14] <dmess> i think its hardware related... the drives BIOS isnt being read properly or something...
[18:37:18] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands dmess a 1542 scsi card =)
[18:38:16] <dmess> to go with the flaky hardware i got already???
[18:38:37] <Jymmm> 1542 is rock solid =)
[18:39:00] <dmess> Dmess it tying NOT to SNAP
[18:39:36] <dmess> but the cable is too wide for my IDE hard drive.. ; )
[18:39:50] <Jymmm> dmess: Got HackSaw?
[18:40:10] <dmess> good scissors... good enuf...
[18:40:24] <Jymmm> for an IDC connector?!
[18:40:32] <dmess> should i leave the red wire or not??
[18:40:52] <Jymmm> get rid of the tab too
[18:41:10] <dmess> ok we'll solder it in
[18:41:36] <dmess> i have some solder the plumber forgot and the propane torch
[18:41:39] <Jymmm> solder? Nah.... sweat it on
[18:41:51] <dmess> ;)
[18:42:01] <Jymmm> plasma ribbon cutter =)
[18:42:32] <dmess> back in a bit..
[18:43:01] <pfred1> sunspots ...
[18:44:32] <Jymmm> pfred1 cq cq cq dx
[18:44:36] <pfred1> man here's a girl after my own heart http://homepage.ntlworld.com/v.ford/
[18:45:42] <pfred1> the centrifugal fan she made is a bit of overkill though I think
[18:48:05] <alex_joni_away> hello
[18:48:27] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[18:49:53] <alex_joni> les: are you around?
[18:50:13] <pfred1> alex_joni no he's a square didn't you know?
[18:50:35] <alex_joni> nope.. glad you told me
[19:03:58] <Jymmm> square my ass!
[19:04:08] <Jymmm> triangle baby, triangle!
[19:07:52] <Imperator_> Hi LAex
[19:07:56] <Imperator_> Alex
[19:08:25] <alex_joni> hey martin
[19:09:02] <Imperator_> Do you have a good idea for a output driver for the analoge outputs of our servo card
[19:09:46] <Imperator_> thinking on the BUF634 chips, but there is only one buffer in one chip -> cost a lot of space on the PCB
[19:09:46] <jmkasunich> you mean something to drive the actual output terminals?
[19:09:53] <Imperator_> jep
[19:10:09] <Imperator_> maybe a good quad opamp is enough
[19:10:20] <jmkasunich> well I'd do it with op-amps and some discretes, but if you are limited on board space...
[19:10:32] <Imperator_> but it must be short circuit stable
[19:11:05] <jmkasunich> and also must be able to handle capacitive loads (cables, etc) without oscillating
[19:11:12] <jmkasunich> can be done with opamps tho
[19:11:19] <Imperator_> jep
[19:11:30] <jmkasunich> put about 100 ohms in series with the opamp output
[19:11:41] <jmkasunich> connect the feedback resistor to the load side of the 100 ohms resistor
[19:11:44] <Imperator_> hope that the servo amps do not sink so much current
[19:11:57] <jmkasunich> connect a feedback capacitor to the opamp side of the load resisitor
[19:12:13] <alex_joni> how about some optocoupling?
[19:12:21] <alex_joni> you can put SMD-oc's
[19:12:29] <jmkasunich> analog outputs aren't easy to optocouple
[19:12:52] <alex_joni> ahhh..analog?
[19:12:56] <jmkasunich> yep
[19:13:01] <alex_joni> 1:1 transformers?
[19:13:03] <jmkasunich> DAC outputs
[19:13:10] <jmkasunich> need to be DC coupled
[19:13:34] <alex_joni> well.. then opamps ;)
[19:14:00] <Imperator_> was also thinking about a circuit with some ISO122 isolation amps, but i think not on the first step
[19:14:16] <jmkasunich> btw, anybody know of an analog isolator that can handle 1200V of isolation voltage, 15KV/us dV/dt?
[19:14:36] <jmkasunich> ISO122 can be nice, but then you also need an isolated power supply for them
[19:15:17] <jmkasunich> and they _DON'T_ like dV/dT across them... about 200v/uS and they start having largish output glitches
[19:15:19] <Imperator_> jep
[19:15:20] <jmkasunich> been there, done that
[19:16:25] <jmkasunich> for analog signals, my preference is differential inputs on the receiving end to reject common mode stuff
[19:16:27] <Imperator_> ok, so i have to put a RC on the input of that ISO122 ??
[19:16:50] <jmkasunich> not that easy... it's not dV/dT of the input, it's dV/dT of the isolation voltage
[19:17:19] <jmkasunich> if you're just using it to break a ground loop, you probably won
[19:17:21] <jmkasunich> 'oops
[19:17:29] <Imperator_> you mean the power supply of the isolated /output side ?
[19:17:39] <jmkasunich> won't have much isolation voltage to start with and not much dV/dT either
[19:17:57] <jmkasunich> I mean the voltage between the isolated and non-isolated side
[19:18:09] <Imperator_> ok
[19:19:16] <Imperator_> i was also thinking on puting a feedback wire on the output, but maybe that is to complicated for the user.
[19:20:00] <jmkasunich> I'd just stick with a nice op-amp buffer with a decoupling resistor for shorts and capacitive loads
[19:20:57] <anonimasu> hm..
[19:21:55] <alex_joni> hey Anders
[19:22:38] <Imperator_> NE5532 quad opamp
[19:23:06] <Imperator_> mabe i can copy from some audio preamps
[19:23:42] <anonimasu> hey alex..
[19:23:49] <anonimasu> I milled the same part today and it turned out great..
[19:23:58] <anonimasu> although wd40 + mist system isnt so great..
[19:25:25] <anonimasu> makes the eyes hurt ....
[19:25:56] <dmess> Anon... vegetable oil..
[19:26:10] <Jymmm> anonimasu: crisco!
[19:26:14] <jmkasunich> nah, drip lube instead of mist
[19:26:29] <Jymmm> anonimasu LARD!!!
[19:26:33] <jmkasunich> doesn't matter what kind of lube it is, you don't want to breath it
[19:26:35] <dmess> i like the cholesterol free grape seed oil
[19:26:42] <anonimasu> Jymmm: what do you want?
[19:26:46] <alex_joni> who's got a nice pic of his emc-controlled machine?
[19:26:58] <anonimasu> :p
[19:27:01] <Jymmm> anonimasu to give you a hard time!
[19:27:20] <Jymmm> WD40,,,, wtf?!
[19:27:32] <anonimasu> brb
[19:27:55] <dmess> where sould freqmod riside??
[19:28:01] <dmess> should..
[19:28:35] <alex_joni> dmess: what do you mean?
[19:28:38] <alex_joni> the code?
[19:28:47] <alex_joni> should be in emcmot.c
[19:28:52] <alex_joni> if it's emc1
[19:29:02] <dmess> the file... i cant get EMC running on this 4.2 version
[19:29:24] <dmess> module.. i guess
[19:29:28] <alex_joni> what does it say?
[19:30:55] <dmess> freqmod: no module by that name found
[19:31:28] <dmess> cant open dependencies file....
[19:32:09] <alex_joni> run depmod
[19:32:13] <alex_joni> as root
[19:32:32] <alex_joni> freqmod.o might be in /lib/modules/'uname -a'/...
[19:33:49] <dmess> epmod: Can't open /lib/modules/2.2.18-rtl3.0/modules.dep for writing
[19:33:49] <dmess> localhost:/home/dmess#
[19:34:07] <alex_joni> 2.2.18 ?????
[19:34:19] <dmess> hey ya...
[19:34:32] <alex_joni> how come?
[19:34:57] <dmess> hmmm thit was the boot floppy i rescued the root from...
[19:35:22] <alex_joni> ahh
[19:35:30] <alex_joni> maybe that's why it's not working?
[19:35:44] <dmess> still got GRUB> issues...
[19:36:49] <alex_joni> bugger that
[19:36:54] <dmess> gonna try punching the MBR later tonite
[19:37:07] <alex_joni> so how do you boot the 2.6 kernel?
[19:38:15] <dmess> well i boot from floppy of old 2.6 with lilo... and rescue root=/dev/hda2 and come up in 4.2 that GRUB cant find...
[19:38:20] <dmess> its FACKED
[19:38:34] <alex_joni> do an uname -a
[19:39:19] <dmess> Linux localhost.localdomain 2.2.18-rtl3.0 #1 Wed Jun 20 09:35:03 BST 2001 i586 GNU/Linux
[19:39:39] <alex_joni> you can't run 2.6 modules on a 2.2.18 kernel
[19:40:06] <dmess> how the heck did that happen???
[19:40:27] <alex_joni> well.. the kernel guys just kept improving the kernel
[19:40:38] <alex_joni> and they switched from 2.2 to 2.4 and then to 2.6
[19:40:41] <alex_joni> =))
[19:40:46] <dmess> no... my screwy situation
[19:41:03] <alex_joni> you probably have an old rescue disk from an older BDI
[19:41:18] <alex_joni> the rescue disk has the kernel on it (2.2.18-rtl3.0)
[19:41:32] <dmess> yes... but this is the install i just put on of 4.2
[19:41:34] <alex_joni> when you boot using the rescue disk you load that kernel
[19:41:37] <anonimasu> iab.
[19:41:47] <alex_joni> the kernel that's on the floppy
[19:41:56] <alex_joni> not the one on the HDD (4.2)
[19:42:09] <dmess> ok i see... chite...
[19:42:43] <dmess> so im just lucky that kde and the rest work at all...
[19:42:54] <alex_joni> yup
[19:42:59] <alex_joni> I wonder how that happened
[19:43:00] <alex_joni> :D
[19:43:24] <dmess> fack... i should write a DONT try THIS atHOME book
[19:43:29] <alex_joni> lol
[19:43:36] <alex_joni> try reinstalling the BDI
[19:43:52] <dmess> for the 9th flippin time.....???
[19:44:01] <alex_joni> heh...
[19:44:08] <alex_joni> 9's a lucky number
[19:44:11] <dmess> ive gone back to drinkin'....
[19:44:39] <dmess> the wife has hidden all the sharps...
[19:44:43] <Jymmm> dmess if you write a "dont try this at home book" arent they going to following along?!
[19:45:09] <alex_joni> try this at work?
[19:45:34] <dmess> to be read on the toilet only keep both hands on the book
[19:45:55] <Jymmm> wheres the fun in that?!
[19:46:10] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[19:46:20] <anonimasu> I need to learn how to take real finish passes.
[19:46:32] <dmess> anyone ever had 2 count them two broken wrists at the same time...
[19:46:50] <dmess> boy thats when you find out who your friends are..
[19:47:44] <dmess> anon... 0.25 stock remaining @ 0.1mm per tooth
[19:48:47] <anonimasu> dmess: yeah, but at what feed?
[19:49:09] <anonimasu> dmess: 100mm/min@3000rpm makes for a nice finish..
[19:50:36] <dmess> 3000 rpm @ 0.1mm feed per tooth...3000x.1x2=600mm/min @3000rpm
[19:50:51] <dmess> 2 flute assumed
[19:51:13] <dmess> your making dust LOL
[19:52:30] <asdfqwega> alex_joni: still looking for pictures of EMC setups?
[19:52:42] <alex_joni> sure
[19:53:14] <asdfqwega> I don't know how it'd qualify for 'nice', but I have some old pics of my homemade getup
[19:53:24] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega digs for the link
[19:54:30] <asdfqwega> heh, I can never find the bookmark
[19:54:41] <asdfqwega> just faster to ftp to my webspace
[19:55:32] <Jymmm> does everyone design in 3D out of curiosity?
[19:56:06] <asdfqwega> http://www.bright.net/~janfritz/CNC/My DIY CNC Machine.html
[19:56:28] <asdfqwega> Sorry about the spaces
[19:56:35] <anonimasu> Jymmm: yes
[19:56:54] <Jymmm> anonimasu using what?
[19:57:00] <asdfqwega> Jymmm: I'm working in 2D
[19:57:45] <Jymmm> asdfqwega what CAD prog?
[19:57:59] <asdfqwega> http://www.bright.net/~janfritz/CNC/My%20DIY%20CNC%20Machine.html
[19:58:08] <asdfqwega> I'm using QCad
[19:58:32] <anonimasu> Jymmm: solidworks
[19:59:10] <alex_joni> asdf..: works with spaces too
[19:59:26] <Jymmm> anonimasu you like it?
[19:59:39] <anonimasu> Jymmm: lots
[19:59:50] <Jymmm> anonimasu learning curve?
[20:00:08] <anonimasu> almost none..
[20:00:40] <anonimasu> you should have a look at synergy :)
[20:00:47] <Jymmm> anonimasu what CAD did you use prior to solidworks?
[20:01:19] <anonimasu> Jymmm: I tried to learn autocad but the learning curve killed me..
[20:01:22] <anonimasu> it was awky..
[20:01:33] <anonimasu> but I've been doing 3d when I was back in school lots..
[20:01:49] <anonimasu> lightwave & 3dsmax so I have some free I guess..
[20:02:10] <Jymmm> anonimasu those are more artisitc than drawing programs though
[20:02:17] <asdfqwega> I need to give Webersys a call to get a code to try out the 3d portion of synergy
[20:02:20] <Jymmm> s/drawing/design/
[20:02:31] <dmess> catia.. mastercam
[20:02:35] <dmess> cimatron
[20:02:40] <anonimasu> catia's nice.. although too expensive..
[20:02:41] <anonimasu> :)
[20:03:06] <asdfqwega> I've tried Autodesk Inventor...very nice and intuitive
[20:03:12] <dmess> yes... pricey but you get what you pay for..
[20:03:14] <anonimasu> Jymmm: yeah but the modelling part resembles cad:ing
[20:03:24] <asdfqwega> I wish very much that synergy had much the same interface
[20:03:32] <Jymmm> anonimasu domensions/callouts and such?
[20:03:44] <dmess> i dislike autodesk... like MS
[20:04:16] <dmess> Cadkey is infinitely better 3d system and has been for yrs
[20:04:23] <Jymmm> Heh, for some sick and twisted reason, I'm playing with FreeCAD atm
[20:04:32] <anonimasu> I tried adlibre it's kind of alike with solidworks..
[20:05:02] <asdfqwega> FreeCAD? is that the one in smarttalk?
[20:05:08] <anonimasu> but well, not quite like the real thing :)
[20:05:12] <Jymmm> asdfqwega yeah
[20:05:19] <Jymmm> smalltalk
[20:05:25] <asdfqwega> ah
[20:05:28] <anonimasu> I havent gotten time to play with synergy yet either :/
[20:06:00] <dmess> it loaded here.. i thought it was for RH9.0
[20:06:05] <asdfqwega> synergy's underlying 'cad engine' seems to be solid, but the interface needs...cleaning
[20:06:09] <Imperator_> Inventor is a mess
[20:06:48] <Jymmm> asdfqwega The main reason I'm playing with it: 1) no install, and 2) data file is the same across platforms, 3) works on pc/mac/nix
[20:07:41] <dmess> that is a nice feature right there
[20:07:47] <asdfqwega> jymmm - I've wanted to play with it - now that I've got a debian groove going, I'll give it a whirl
[20:08:04] <Jymmm> asdfqwega works on pc too
[20:08:21] <Jymmm> asdfqwega just unzip to a folder... installed!
[20:08:43] <asdfqwega> Not so...you have to install smalltalk first
[20:08:58] <Jymmm> no fucking with the registry, no filess added to /windows/system32/, to uninstall rmdir
[20:09:12] <Jymmm> asdfqwega no you dont... I dind't on win2000
[20:09:29] <asdfqwega> jymmm: preaching to choir
[20:22:02] <Jymmm> asdfqwega what's a L297/L298 board ?
[20:22:24] <alex_joni> Jymmm: a combination of 2 chips for driving steppers
[20:22:36] <alex_joni> pretty wide spread
[20:22:36] <alex_joni> google for it
[20:23:08] <dmess> how about MTD2003F... any good??
[20:23:38] <Jymmm> 2A max?
[20:28:57] <alex_joni> smthg like that
[20:29:30] <asdfqwega> I think the mtd2003 is unipolar
[20:46:05] <alex_joni> do you guys know www.cncmotion.com ?
[20:46:12] <alex_joni> does look a lot like emc
[20:46:27] <alex_joni> http://www.cncmotion.com/standard.htm
[20:47:50] <Jymmm> ALRIGHT!!! 3.5" Floppy Disk Drive
[20:53:07] <dmess> doesnt it... ; )
[20:54:55] <jepler_> blue plus big axis readouts? those are probably xemc's defining characteristics.
[20:56:03] <alex_joni> yeah and the G- and M-codes
[20:57:52] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:02:42] <anonimasu> hm
[21:02:48] <anonimasu> the thing they run on the lathe is also blue
[21:08:02] <Jymmm> asdfqwega your rotozip wasn't strong enough?
[21:17:56] <asdfqwega> To do a 1" or better plunge into MDF with a 1/4" bit? I don't think so!
[21:19:08] <anonimasu> asdfqwega: trial and error is scary with machines..
[21:20:18] <Jymmm> asdfqwega thats what you said on the website
[21:27:32] <Jymmm> what would say the feedrate this is running at ?
[21:27:33] <Jymmm> http://www.cncmotion.com/aluminum.mpg
[21:28:51] <anonimasu> hm... slow :)
[21:28:54] <alex_joni> hey guys.. how does this look for an splash for emc2?
[21:28:57] <alex_joni> http://www.robcon.ro/emc/splash-emc2.jpg
[21:29:24] <anonimasu> I cant make a guess really
[21:29:31] <anonimasu> somwhere around 500mm/min
[21:30:01] <anonimasu> maybe more
[21:30:23] <paul_c> alex_joni: Don't use error msg code.... Go for funky math.
[21:30:34] <alex_joni> lol
[21:30:46] <alex_joni> ok.. was afraid you'll say anything about hal :D
[21:31:05] <alex_joni> but I want to replace that code anyways
[21:33:35] <alex_joni> how does this sound?
[21:33:35] <alex_joni> if (s->m != 0) {
[21:33:35] <alex_joni> s->b1 = 3 * (maxInc - s->plInitInc) / ((s->m * s->m * sq->ctPow2));
[21:33:36] <alex_joni> s->a1 = -2 * s->b1 / (3 * s->m * sq->cycleTime);
[21:33:36] <alex_joni> s->c1 = 0;
[21:33:36] <alex_joni> s->d1 = s->plInitInc;
[21:33:37] <alex_joni> }
[21:35:26] <paul_c> segmentqueue...
[21:35:34] <alex_joni> yeah :)
[21:36:42] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:36:46] <jmkasunich> this probably sounds stupid... but how do you open a source RPM... I _don't_ want to install anything, just look at it
[21:37:01] <alex_joni> you can't ;)
[21:37:07] <alex_joni> jmk: you can install it to a foo dir
[21:37:13] <alex_joni> and look at it
[21:37:39] <jmkasunich> if it's a source rpm, isn't there a way to skip the "make" part?
[21:37:54] <paul_c> src.rpm get's upacked in /usr/src/rpm/
[21:38:00] <alex_joni> killall make
[21:38:05] <alex_joni> from a script ;)
[21:38:10] <alex_joni> lol
[21:38:27] <paul_c> just rpm -ih *.src.rpm should do it
[21:38:53] <paul_c> the makefoo doesn't run until you do a buildrpm
[21:39:07] <alex_joni> btw.. I open rpm's all the time (but that's on doze)
[21:39:28] <alex_joni> it's really easy with some plugin for totalcommander (does debs too)
[21:39:48] <paul_c> mc does debs & rpms too
[21:39:57] <alex_joni> really?
[21:40:00] <alex_joni> didn't know that
[21:40:14] <alex_joni> cool... (now I know why I always loved mc)
[21:40:29] <jmkasunich> I'll try mc... rpm didn't work "error: cannot write to %sourcedir /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES"
[21:41:28] <alex_joni> on what distro?
[21:41:36] <jmkasunich> BDI-TNG
[21:41:49] <alex_joni> might not have the dir /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES
[21:41:52] <jmkasunich> right
[21:42:00] <alex_joni> should have it ;)
[21:42:13] <jmkasunich> this is the latest version of the kudzu rpm, and I'm running a far from latest distro
[21:42:47] <Imperator_> hey Alex, that picture is not bad. Suggestion replace the clouds by chips
[21:43:12] <alex_joni> got a nice pic with chips?
[21:43:37] <Imperator_> hm
[21:43:52] <Imperator_> i can make one, tomorrow
[21:44:22] <alex_joni> mail me one
[21:44:27] <alex_joni> when you have it
[21:44:57] <Imperator_> ok
[21:46:26] <asdfqwega> alex_joni: the splash needs more nudity
[21:47:44] <alex_joni> asdfqwega: how so?
[21:48:41] <Jymmm> nakkid tux ?
[21:50:02] <Imperator_> :-)
[21:50:14] <asdfqwega> Maybe the 'penguin' picture from nekobox.org?
[21:50:22] <alex_joni> we'd need a tuxette
[21:51:14] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ likes the idear with the red number
[21:52:30] <alex_joni> tried some chips.. looks like crap :D
[21:52:57] <asdfqwega> http://www.nekobox.org/images/penguin-swimsuit.jpg
[21:53:46] <Imperator_> hm, not realy a pinguin
[21:54:02] <asdfqwega> try some crap...maybe it'll look like chips
[21:54:13] <jmkasunich> I like the clouds
[21:55:36] <jmkasunich> some chips: http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2001_retired_files/Facemil4.jpg
[21:57:41] <Jymmm> Here ya go... http://brtnik.isibrno.cz/~vita/tmp/linuxwallpapers/linux-girl.jpg
[22:00:14] <alex_joni> Jymmm: that might work :D
[22:00:31] <Jymmm> high enough res to edit as needed
[22:01:25] <anonimasu> hm, I dont think that gives a professional feel to it
[22:01:26] <anonimasu> :p
[22:01:29] <anonimasu> but that's just me..
[22:01:40] <Jymmm> just being nosey, what you folsk thing about SHERLINE mills?
[22:01:43] <Jymmm> folks
[22:01:58] <paul_c> alex_joni: be very careful with images that show female flesh
[22:02:14] <paul_c> some cultures find it ofensive..
[22:03:02] <anonimasu> I dont but still, emc is a tool :)
[22:03:14] <alex_joni> * alex_joni votes for a pic with paul_c dressed up like that
[22:03:25] <anonimasu> * anonimasu agrees
[22:03:38] <alex_joni> I think we need a poll
[22:03:40] <alex_joni> *g*
[22:03:41] <Jymmm> * Jymmm goes blind
[22:06:23] <Jymmm> just being nosey, what you folks thing about SHERLINE mills?
[22:06:33] <jmkasunich> nice, but very small
[22:07:12] <Jymmm> other than size, limitations?
[22:07:37] <paul_c> Use the 10,000 rpm spindle
[22:08:08] <paul_c> don't use those MT0 collets...
[22:08:38] <paul_c> the ER16 spindle is a better choice.
[22:10:42] <Jymmm> #3307 ? http://www.sherline.com/prices2.htm
[22:10:52] <Jymmm> 2/3 down the page
[22:13:04] <paul_c> 4335
[22:13:31] <Jymmm> ah
[22:13:58] <Jymmm> tiag is the other one, correct?
[22:14:40] <asdfqwega> So, THAT's the collet the CueMonster uses...
[22:16:06] <paul_c> You'd need to talk to Kim or Craig about the ER16 option @ Sherline
[22:18:42] <Jymmm> paul_c: I dont even have a clue what it is (was trying to find it on the website =)
[22:19:12] <paul_c> It's listed under Industrial products
[22:20:34] <asdfqwega> hehehe...I just googled "penguin porn"
[22:20:38] <asdfqwega> first hit:
[22:20:41] <asdfqwega> If you type "penguin porn" into Google, you get over 16000 results: clearly the appeal of frisky marine birds is more widespread than one might expect.
[22:21:07] <Jymmm> asdfqwega s/penguin/goat/
[22:24:37] <asdfqwega> Man, this is almost as bad as when Bill the cat began a tirade against penguin lust in Bloom County
[22:28:32] <alex_joni> updated the splash
[22:31:36] <pfred1> jmkasunich if you want to open an rpm try alien
[22:35:52] <pfred1> this sounds cool too http://www.jmknoble.net/software/rpm2tar/
[22:52:12] <alex_joni> http://www.robcon.ro/emc/splash-emc2-v3.jpg
[22:52:18] <alex_joni> tell me what you think...
[22:54:13] <jmkasunich> pretty nice
[22:54:50] <alex_joni> jmk: would that fit as a splash for emc2?
[22:55:03] <anonimasu> hm, night everyone
[22:55:17] <alex_joni> night an0n
[22:55:20] <asdfqwega> alex_joni: well, it's certainly non-offensive...
[22:55:35] <alex_joni> I'm going to bed too...
[22:59:48] <alex_joni> night guys
[23:03:41] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm needs a descrabbler for his computer
[23:03:44] <Imperator_> chiao
[23:45:11] <pfred1> furless prawn pic! http://www.afcd.gov.hk/fisheries/PortSurvey01-02/FishPhoto/Bear%20prawn.jpg
[23:47:55] <paul_c> g'night.