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[00:00:46] <SWPadnos> this one is 3/4" diameter, 5TPI, 5" travel
[00:01:39] <SWPadnos> It has some 1/2I threads on one side, and bearing surfaces. The other side is unmachined
[00:01:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Save it, this is "suppose" to be a cheapy proj, maybe somethign to make more of them later on.
[00:01:53] <SWPadnos> well - $50 takes it :)
[00:02:01] <SWPadnos> (maybe even $40)
[00:03:07] <Jymmm> I usedstand what gezr said about cheap acme, fair enough. But you gotta remember I'm trying to use rollerskat bearigns for the linear rails.
[00:03:26] <Jymmm> not $40-50 for pillow block
[00:03:42] <SWPadnos> true :) - I'll put it back in the garage
[00:04:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos =)
[00:04:51] <SWPadnos> next to the set of Acme screw I took out of the Bridgeport :)
[00:04:52] <Jymmm> I still trying to figure out a way to use those ABEC7 bearing, mounting them I mean. As I havne' bought a mini mill yet.
[00:05:26] <SWPadnos> that's a pretty big problem - even for womeone who has a mill
[00:05:30] <SWPadnos> someone
[00:05:48] <SWPadnos> the bearing holes should be pretty round, and pretty precisely located
[00:06:00] <SWPadnos> hard to do for a programmer with a manual Bridgeport
[00:06:19] <Jymmm> thus somewhat adjustable
[00:06:36] <Jymmm> it's the adjustment part I haven't come up with a soution yet
[00:08:21] <Jymmm> kinda why I was asking about gib's earlier, to see how they're done.
[00:09:31] <Jymmm> I did come up with one way, but seems cheesey... two bearing seperated by a spacer between them, then have the rail ride on the edge of the bearings.
[00:09:44] <les> back in a little bit ...have to go over to my 98 year old grandma's house and give her some of the corned beef I cooked up
[00:09:58] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:10:08] <Jymmm> les Say Hi to granny for us!
[00:10:12] <les> ok
[00:10:17] <SWPadnos> Jymmm: are you talking about adjusting the centerpoint of the screw?
[00:10:25] <SWPadnos> (in the bearing)
[00:10:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos sorta kinda yeah, or what it's mounted to at least
[00:11:33] <SWPadnos> so - positioning the bearing holes so the screw is exactly parallel to the gantry motion
[00:12:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I was considerign 3 or 4 bearings... 3 @ 120 degree angle from each other, or 4 @ 90 deg from each other.
[00:12:46] <SWPadnos> and the screw is in between?
[00:12:59] <Jymmm> SWPadnos no, the rail is (drillrod)
[00:13:12] <SWPadnos> ah - the "linear" bearings
[00:13:21] <SWPadnos> (I thought you were talking about the screw supports
[00:13:24] <SWPadnos> )
[00:13:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos well for the screw end supports, I was considering those "inser/flange bearings"
[00:14:05] <Jymmm> that I've been trying to find.
[00:15:49] <SWPadnos> right - what were those going for?
[00:18:39] <SWPadnos> Here's a Z axis for you:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=55826&item=7501862307&rd=1
[00:27:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: The only problem with that is I want to make multiple machines, if the first goes alright.
[00:27:09] <robin_sz> sigh ...
[00:27:23] <Jymmm> robin_sz ?
[00:27:26] <robin_sz> how come almost all code I look at, I find lacking in style
[00:27:53] <robin_sz> do these fscks not read the great works before setting out??
[00:28:14] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[00:28:14] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[00:28:31] <robin_sz> * robin_sz looks forward to the day when you need a licence before you are allowed to use a compiler
[00:28:40] <Jymmm> rotf!
[00:28:54] <Jymmm> M$ would go broke if that were the case.
[00:30:01] <gezr> SWPadnos : easy for a machinist who couldnt code to save his own feeding tube
[00:30:58] <gezr> making a bearing hole that is
[00:31:48] <Jymmm> gezr O_o
[00:31:56] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:32:06] <gezr> im upset about work, and other things as well
[00:32:25] <gezr> SWPadnos : if you need machinging help I may have some tips or something
[00:32:48] <gezr> acording to my work mates, I do nothing,
[00:32:57] <Jymmm> gezr: Do any of your "machining tips" involve tequilia?
[00:33:26] <gezr> Jymmm : if your dancing and the song is playing yes
[00:33:32] <les> if so i'll listen...
[00:34:14] <Jymmm> les: Good stuff ---->
http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink7393.html
[00:34:36] <Jymmm> * Jymmm prefers Jose Queve Gold
[00:34:41] <gezr> les : here is an intersesting proposition for you, engage the lead screw only when you hear the word tequilia
[00:34:52] <gezr> in the song, would the threads line up?
[00:35:02] <gezr> dissengage before any problem happens
[00:35:04] <les> heh
[00:35:25] <gezr> do you think that it would line up?
[00:35:42] <les> you know we sometimes had math classes in engineering school at a campus bar
[00:35:45] <les> really
[00:35:57] <les> "oiled our brains"
[00:36:09] <Jymmm> gezr: After four shots, you'll have things things to line up =)
[00:36:10] <gezr> I didnt do so well in my first math class
[00:36:26] <Jymmm> four
[00:36:32] <gezr> well, any class that first year
[00:36:35] <Jymmm> gezr: After four shots, you'll have four things to line up =)
[00:36:35] <les> well this was grad math courses
[00:36:41] <les> kinda different
[00:36:50] <les> don't have to remember things
[00:36:57] <les> it's just insight
[00:37:10] <gezr> wasting away
[00:37:20] <les> cople beers+ more insight
[00:37:23] <gezr> is my frame of mind right now
[00:37:44] <les> heh
[00:38:02] <les> me too right now
[00:38:05] <les> and glad
[00:38:07] <Jymmm> gezr: Ya know the best thign todo in you senario right now is?
[00:38:18] <les> after two months of 7 day weeks
[00:38:26] <Jymmm> gezr "Fuck em if they can't take a joke!"
[00:39:45] <nevyn> hrm.
[00:39:55] <gezr> Jymmm : we have zero room for advancement, im the new guy, last hire that is, when they got the new cnc machine for me to run, they just so happend to make us pay part of our insurance, I got blamed for that, cause my abilities allowed the company to justify the purchase, even though the 2 have zero relationship
[00:40:22] <gezr> I get blamed for a lot of things
[00:40:52] <les> Well I have my own company...and let me tell you...it's not really insurance
[00:40:54] <gezr> and its probably the best gig I can do right now
[00:40:56] <les> we just pay it.
[00:41:12] <gezr> yeah
[00:41:19] <Jymmm> gezr: Have they said anythign directly to you?
[00:42:30] <gezr> Jymmm : its a co-worker issue, those incharge never have any complaints
[00:42:53] <Jymmm> gezr: No, I mean you co-workers. Have they said anythign directly at you?
[00:43:07] <gezr> Jymmm : yeah
[00:44:48] <Jymmm> gezr: Ok, the next time they/them blame you, tell em you sick of this shit. You didn't have one thing to say about what happens, isn't management. If they have a bitch about, go talk to them and to leave you the hell out of it.
[00:45:04] <Jymmm> s/isn;t/ it's/
[00:45:15] <gezr> im sure its all a result of the fact that nobody can advance, get incentive, stuff like that, just passing blame
[00:45:41] <gezr> I dont even have incentive, however this year so far, im showing up on time
[00:45:54] <Jymmm> gezr: Sure, you're the scapegoat. But instead of blaming you, have them bitch to mgnt and do somethign about it or just STFU already.
[00:46:27] <Jymmm> * Jymmm calls em as he see's em.
[00:46:43] <Jymmm> Not necessarily in those words, but you get the point.
[00:47:15] <Jymmm> They can blame you all day long and nothign will happen, or they can bitch at mgnt and maybe something will be done.
[00:47:23] <gezr> Jymmm : that takes away from my motovation
[00:48:01] <gezr> hehehe, the other day a few of them got spanked for bitching about me, it was cause I was getting coffee.
[00:48:11] <Jymmm> gezr: Well, I'm not sure how exactly being blamed for something you have zero control of it's "motiving".
[00:48:12] <gezr> I work at a day care center
[00:48:44] <gezr> that doubles as a sweing circle when not in barber shop mode
[00:49:33] <Jymmm> gezr you male or female?
[00:50:19] <Jymmm> * Jymmm never assumes anythign on IRC
[00:50:47] <gezr> guy drilling a hole in multiple plates, doesnt make sure the table is clamped correctly, table moves, drill keeps on drilling, when he notices the hole is now twice its required size, he is told to weld it up and redrill, I keeping my mouth shut, watch the guy, weld the 3 plates together and didnt say a word. that cost the company
[00:50:52] <gezr> Jymmm : im a guy
[00:51:33] <Jymmm> gezr Heh, now you understnd my alter-nick =)
[00:52:05] <gezr> I wasnt trying to hurt the company, I didnt realize that it was going to take a day to get them apart
[00:52:31] <Jymmm> gezr: You have nothign to do with that persons incompidense (sp)
[00:52:55] <gezr> I did however, sharpen that drill, that oh so sweetly sharpened drill.
[00:52:56] <Jymmm> If they didn't give you so much shit, you might have been more forward with such things.
[00:53:06] <Jymmm> ok, bbl supper
[00:53:20] <gezr> well, last time I suggested something to that guy, I wound up in the office
[00:55:13] <gezr> I didnt really suggest something to him, I was carring a part down on the crain over to his station, he didn't like my suggestion that I was going to put the part down first before I gave him the crain.
[00:55:51] <gezr> oh well, im just stuck again, complaining just like the others
[00:58:29] <les> ah work politics
[00:58:41] <les> know how to stop all of that cold?
[00:59:07] <gezr> les : yeah?
[00:59:17] <les> start a company. Be the boss.
[00:59:22] <les> also...
[00:59:40] <les> live off of savings acouple years haha
[01:00:30] <gezr> I keep blowing that to get out of any debt
[01:00:32] <les> and wonder where your next check is comong from
[01:00:45] <SWPadnos> lottery winnings are a big help in that arena
[01:00:51] <les> well that is the key I think
[01:00:54] <gezr> im 31 working as if im not going to be working in 3 years
[01:01:03] <les> I have no debt
[01:01:09] <SWPadnos> gezr: thanks for the offer - I'll let you know if I need any pointers
[01:01:41] <les> 31 and you call yourself gezr?
[01:01:45] <les> ha
[01:02:05] <SWPadnos> well, gotta run - it's movie night with the wife
[01:02:17] <gezr> before older folks learned how to use the internet, I was the gezr
[01:02:18] <les> what's playing?
[01:02:28] <SWPadnos> what do you think, "Shrek 2", or "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow"?
[01:02:38] <les> latter
[01:02:44] <les> i guess
[01:02:44] <SWPadnos> Thta's what I was thinking
[01:02:51] <SWPadnos> we'll see :)
[01:02:55] <SWPadnos> see ya
[01:02:56] <les> later
[01:03:00] <gezr> take it easy SWPadnos
[01:03:02] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[01:04:04] <les> When I was 31 I was visciously ambitious
[01:04:13] <les> but I could not spell.
[01:04:15] <gezr> les : its been sucked out of me
[01:04:36] <gezr> I have all sorts of wants, nothing comes far enough forward
[01:04:37] <les> naw too early for that
[01:05:05] <les> 30's are the up the ladder years
[01:05:41] <les> whatever you make of yourself....it happens in the 30's
[01:05:54] <les> sounds like you just need a change
[01:05:58] <gezr> thats what I tell the boss when he asks me whats wrong
[01:06:34] <gezr> the life I have right now is rather simple, I think im the highest paid guy they have(I think some others may know that)
[01:06:42] <les> I never got along with my bosses very well
[01:07:16] <gezr> the boss just doesnt like it when I ask for a cnc milling machine
[01:07:53] <les> heh they never do
[01:08:23] <gezr> les : I think thats what the main problem is, money. I can run parts, and at the end of the day, It doesnt look like I did anything
[01:08:41] <les> Being visciously ambitious I sought out short sighted bosses
[01:09:02] <les> that were dumb enough to let me become indespensible
[01:09:03] <gezr> les : you were in a company that had room from growth right?
[01:09:10] <les> then I got my way.
[01:09:22] <les> yes huge growth
[01:09:26] <gezr> thats where im at myself, but im at the top rung
[01:09:50] <les> when I started it was a 500 million sales company
[01:10:01] <les> now 10 billin+ a year
[01:10:19] <gezr> cant just up and fire me, cant promote me, cant pay me anymore(not a lot of sales) up is the boss, above that is family owners
[01:10:44] <les> hmm
[01:10:53] <les> time to move on I would say
[01:11:17] <les> things are getting much better out there
[01:11:36] <gezr> les : im going to have to get a degree
[01:11:47] <les> It helps
[01:11:53] <gezr> or start my own shop
[01:12:06] <les> I quit college at 22
[01:12:25] <les> worked as a technician
[01:12:46] <les> was promoted to engineer without a degree
[01:13:00] <les> but I knew that was the limit
[01:13:23] <les> so I quit, sold all my stuff, and went back to school
[01:13:29] <gezr> we have draftsmen who think they are engineers, who make machinging prints for iron workers, its rather strange
[01:13:38] <gezr> machining
[01:14:05] <les> after I graduated I was a manager of research and development in 4 years.
[01:15:00] <les> and going back to school was way fun
[01:15:03] <gezr> I could be the owner of a shop right now, I wasnt ready for it, and I was unhappy with things, so I left that
[01:15:23] <les> I was 4 years older than most of my classmates
[01:15:28] <les> but it was fun
[01:15:30] <gezr> partner ship issue,
[01:15:36] <gezr> I bet school would be a lot of fun
[01:15:50] <les> the college girls love slightly older guys
[01:16:06] <les> heh
[01:16:18] <gezr> my wife may not like that part of things
[01:16:36] <les> and...I had lots of skills already
[01:16:47] <les> I was waived from all lab courses
[01:17:00] <les> which was good
[01:17:10] <les> took math instead
[01:17:24] <les> I always make an a in any math course
[01:18:09] <les> Got a NASA grant
[01:18:17] <les> know why?
[01:18:28] <gezr> why?
[01:18:56] <les> because I could make accurate models of the space shuttle fuel tank on an old sheldon wwII lathe
[01:19:14] <les> and was also good at math
[01:19:25] <gezr> hahahaha
[01:19:36] <les> heh It's true
[01:19:49] <gezr> chips where flying off like insulation :)
[01:19:55] <les> yup
[01:20:06] <gezr> didnt they change the original material used ?
[01:20:31] <gezr> I guess my smile was unwarnted,
[01:20:32] <les> well at the time the foam was painted
[01:20:43] <les> then they ditched the paint
[01:20:52] <les> a little weaker
[01:21:04] <les> still no paint will be used
[01:21:22] <les> but a better surface treatment for bonding
[01:21:53] <gezr> I wish the space program was more active
[01:22:13] <les> Hexamethyldisilazane pretreat for the AL skin I think
[01:22:48] <gezr> why didnt they go with a rough outer skin to bond to?
[01:23:04] <les> rough does not help
[01:23:18] <les> the stuff sticks from hydrogen bonding
[01:23:30] <les> it's a surface chemistry thing
[01:23:35] <gezr> the insulator is formed to the aerodynamic shape, they could have ledges or something incase something broke lose, but I guess thats added weight
[01:23:47] <les> yeah
[01:24:10] <les> the paint was a couple thousand pounds I guess
[01:24:19] <gezr> what about a mylar wrapping or outer skin of that stuff?
[01:24:39] <gezr> weight issue
[01:24:42] <les> maybe
[01:24:45] <gezr> damn you gravity
[01:24:50] <les> heh
[01:25:15] <les> Mind you My work was at mach .2 or less
[01:25:32] <les> the foam camr loose at a much higher speed
[01:25:35] <gezr> maybe if they tossed out all the old computers they could sking the fuel tank
[01:26:01] <les> the shuttle computers are very crude for sure
[01:26:09] <les> there are 3
[01:26:47] <gezr> which probably can match my cell phone in raw computing power
[01:26:59] <les> really it is a nasty ride...
[01:27:09] <les> 1 in 50 don't come home
[01:27:28] <les> as a pilot...I can tell you I don't like those odds
[01:28:21] <gezr> yeah I know
[01:28:33] <gezr> the whole thing seems stagnant to me
[01:28:57] <gezr> I hate the losses, but there is nothing about the international space station that moves me
[01:29:21] <les> It's just political
[01:29:46] <les> Don't get me wrong I love the idea of space travel
[01:29:56] <les> I have done zero g a bit
[01:30:02] <gezr> art bell would say that were just obeying what we were told by the aliens
[01:30:06] <les> let me tell you it's wild
[01:30:48] <les> you can do zero g for about 20 seconds in an airplane
[01:30:54] <gezr> I bet it is, ive been in a dive in a small plane, thats about as close as ive been
[01:30:57] <gezr> yeah
[01:31:06] <les> in a word:
[01:31:09] <les> puke
[01:31:12] <les> haha
[01:31:27] <les> I NEVER DID THOUGH
[01:31:40] <les> caps lock is sticking
[01:31:58] <gezr> when your space bar goes :)
[01:32:13] <les> dirt from the floor floats around
[01:32:27] <les> water forms round globules
[01:33:01] <les> you suddenly get nasal congestion
[01:33:57] <les> m&ms are hard to eat when floating around
[01:34:06] <gezr> hahaha
[01:34:58] <gezr> the vomit comit is currently on tour where everyday joe with I think a grand can take a ride in it.
[01:35:08] <gezr> it may cost a bit more
[01:35:22] <les> It can do longer than30 seconds
[01:35:40] <les> I could not do that long in light aircraft
[01:35:46] <les> not enough power
[01:35:58] <gezr> to pull out of the dive?
[01:36:04] <gezr> or to climb that high to safely do it?
[01:36:19] <les> just to stay inan elliptical trajectory
[01:36:31] <les> I limit the pullout to 3 G
[01:36:45] <robin_sz> and vne gets awful close
[01:36:48] <les> plane is certified to 4.4
[01:36:59] <les> yup robin
[01:37:07] <gezr> vne?
[01:37:20] <les> I pull up at about .75 VNE
[01:37:20] <Jymmm> les : 3G's - you wuss! =)
[01:37:32] <les> I have done 6.
[01:37:38] <les> It hurts.
[01:37:45] <les> Rbin prob has too
[01:38:10] <Jymmm> les : I joke, I've gone 12 G's once... but it was on a vibration table =)
[01:38:38] <robin_sz> ive seen 4G .. thats all, enough for me
[01:39:08] <les> I did 6 in a beech sierra that was rated for it
[01:39:13] <gezr> what is VNE?
[01:39:19] <les> it's an ouchie
[01:39:30] <robin_sz> regardless of the notices they put on these rides ... ive never experienced anyting like it on a fiarground ride, no matter what they say.
[01:39:30] <les> Velocity never exceed
[01:39:33] <gezr> velocity needed for escape
[01:39:38] <gezr> aoh
[01:40:01] <Jymmm> VNE == "Place you head between your legs and kiss you ass goodbye!"
[01:40:04] <les> velocity needed for the wings to tear off...
[01:40:12] <robin_sz> I always feel I am sinking deeper into the seat, and my vision tunnels
[01:40:23] <robin_sz> and that noise as the blood leaves the head
[01:40:35] <les> I never had the tunnel vision much
[01:40:48] <Jymmm> ew that's the WEIRDEST sensation, and not very plesant either.
[01:40:50] <les> but it hurts
[01:40:52] <robin_sz> I thnk its a pschological thing
[01:40:59] <les> back and neck hurts
[01:41:27] <gezr> im going to be seeing if I cant drum up some tunnel vision and go to sleep pretty soon
[01:41:36] <robin_sz> heh
[01:41:50] <robin_sz> a decent 5 poitn harness helps a lot
[01:42:03] <les> you see I took some aerobatic instruction after I got my liscense
[01:42:07] <gezr> getting lots of sleep seems to counter act work
[01:42:16] <robin_sz> ooh fun
[01:42:20] <les> I remember being very sore the next morning
[01:42:40] <les> several times
[01:42:51] <robin_sz> ive known girls like that ;)
[01:42:53] <gezr> texas refinery explosion, we have what 2 left in the us now?
[01:43:03] <les> huh?
[01:43:41] <gezr> some new news story, I was going to see what was up, and headline no story yet, says texan refinery explosion
[01:43:54] <Jymmm> robin_sz Heh, those were the days....
[01:43:55] <les> hmm
[01:44:01] <les> let me check
[01:45:25] <gezr> bp station in oil city, oh man, I did get gas today, this sucks
[01:47:47] <les> nothin on cnn
[01:48:14] <les> all schaivo stuff
[01:48:24] <gezr> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4377519.stm
[01:48:34] <les> looking
[01:48:42] <gezr> fox has it as a banner
[01:50:19] <les> hmmm texas city was the site of that ammonium nitrate blast long ago
[01:50:27] <gezr> oh if any of you guys get froggy to go see the clinton thing in little rock, I work a block from there
[01:50:32] <les> that was like nuclear weapon yield
[01:50:35] <gezr> les : yeah, same company too
[01:50:37] <les> yeild
[01:50:41] <les> argh
[01:51:07] <les> hmm
[01:51:18] <les> still nothin n cnn
[01:51:24] <les> on
[01:51:49] <les> you know these keyboards I am beta testing sre crap
[01:51:59] <les> many keys failing
[01:52:14] <les> after what
[01:52:17] <les> 100 hrs
[01:52:48] <gezr> unisys baby
[01:53:02] <gezr> getting a at mobo is another issue
[01:53:14] <les> keys are stick slipping and jamming
[01:53:14] <Jymmm> Gawd, they are getting REALLY bad at this...
[01:53:22] <Jymmm> T?ih?s e?iam?l was s?ne?t by the Barc?yal?s s?revre? to v?yfire? yo?ru? e?liam? a?sserdd?. You m?su?t co?elpm?te th?si? pr?co?ess by click?gni?
[01:53:22] <Jymmm> on the li?kn? be?wol? and ent?re?ing in the sm?lla? w?wodni? y?uo?r B?lcra?ays Membership number, passcode and memorable word.
[01:53:22] <Jymmm> T?sih? is d?no?e for y?uo?r prot?tce?ion - becau?es? s?emo? of our m?me?bers no lo?egn?r have a?ssecc? to the?ri? e?liam? a?sserdd?es and we
[01:53:22] <Jymmm> m?su?t v?ire?fy it. To v?ire?fy yo?ru? e?am?il add?sser? and a?secc?s yo?ru? b?kna? accou?tn?, c?il
[01:53:29] <les> constantly
[01:53:32] <les> heh
[01:53:52] <gezr> Jymmm : oh my gosh hahahaha
[01:54:16] <Jymmm> gezr: I'm nust sure if that was accidental, or intentional
[01:54:26] <gezr> my wife made a mistake once reguarding paypal once, she had had a bad day, and wasnt paying attention, and she followd the link
[01:54:55] <les> and?
[01:55:07] <gezr> gave some skum bag her personal info
[01:55:14] <les> oh
[01:55:17] <Jymmm> oh man
[01:55:24] <gezr> we caught it that moment, cause she had realized what had happend
[01:55:40] <gezr> I couldn't tell the difference between teh site and paypalls site
[01:55:40] <Jymmm> before the SUBMIT button ?
[01:55:46] <gezr> no after
[01:55:50] <Jymmm> dman
[01:55:59] <gezr> stuff happens
[01:56:07] <Jymmm> That is ONE reason I refuse to use/follow tinyurl's
[01:56:33] <gezr> like I said she was upset, and just wasnt thinking right, easy mistake to make
[01:56:36] <les> I have used paypal onlyonce
[01:56:38] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/slot-sig.pdf: File changed. New revision:1.5
[01:56:38] <Jymmm> Hmmm paypal is now doing snadboxes - took em long enough.
[01:56:41] <gezr> she did realize so its all going
[01:57:05] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/slot-sig.lyx: File changed. New revision:1.7
[01:57:05] <les> heh paul is still up
[01:57:20] <gezr> Ide like to see some serious identity theft laws taken to furution
[01:57:36] <les> yeah
[01:57:36] <A-L-P-H-A> evening folks.
[01:57:44] <les> hi alpha
[01:57:47] <A-L-P-H-A> first time in a long time I got off my ass to go to the gym... I'm so out of shape.
[01:58:15] <gezr> yeah but now you can say you go to the gym
[01:58:15] <les> I hit the driving range todayand got a little too
[01:58:18] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A put a sharp point on your chair seat, that'll motivate ya!
[01:58:37] <A-L-P-H-A> les, what do you hit?
[01:58:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I can get 225... 200-210 average. [no wind]
[01:59:00] <A-L-P-H-A> been able to hit 250 yrds with wind.
[01:59:04] <les> a little white ball.
[01:59:23] <les> best I ever did was 240
[01:59:25] <A-L-P-H-A> Les, Master of understatements. I bow before you.
[01:59:43] <gezr> I hope my elbow gets better so I can play golf again
[01:59:58] <les> I am a beginner
[02:00:07] <les> I need lessons
[02:00:10] <gezr> maybe thats what I need to do, I have a choice, take up shooting so I can suck up to the boss like others do, or start playing golf again
[02:00:29] <A-L-P-H-A> SWP_Away, is that mill you got bought recently? Looks nicely reconditioned...
[02:00:40] <Jymmm> gezr do you like shooting?
[02:00:45] <A-L-P-H-A> shooting? like guns?
[02:00:56] <A-L-P-H-A> great... that's what we need... more people shooting stuff.
[02:01:07] <gezr> les : the most important part about golf, is focusing on the enjoyment
[02:01:10] <Jymmm> Speaking of that, anyone good at gun restoration?
[02:01:22] <Jymmm> gezr heh, shoot the golf balls!
[02:01:25] <les> I am making a custom hawken .50 just for fun
[02:01:28] <A-L-P-H-A> hey! I know... get more guns, have them more accessible to children... allow them to bring them to school, and play QuakeRL! (Quake Real Life)
[02:01:39] <les> ha
[02:01:49] <gezr> Jymmm : I dont mind shooting, just not motivated by it
[02:02:08] <Jymmm> les I have a Winchester 1854 and I'd like to bring it back to operational state, any suggested reading?
[02:02:21] <les> 1854?
[02:02:31] <A-L-P-H-A> I see absolutely NO use in guns/rifles, unless it's for HUNTING food. And food that you and your friends/family are going to eat!
[02:02:39] <les> rolling block?
[02:02:54] <les> I JUST SHOOT AT PAPER TARGETS
[02:03:18] <les> OOPS SHIFT STUCK AND WILL NOT COME UNDONE
[02:03:32] <les> there
[02:04:00] <gezr> we can all yell or just accpet les as less and not more even though his characters are standing tall
[02:04:10] <Jymmm> les: Sorry 1894...
[02:04:26] <les> these keyboards are not good
[02:04:40] <les> abs on abs is not a good bearing
[02:04:52] <Jymmm> les :
http://www.rarewinchesters.com/images/1894/model_94.htm
[02:04:56] <les> oh 1894
[02:05:15] <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : folks who have issues will do there dastardly dead however they can
[02:05:27] <gezr> deed
[02:05:41] <gezr> I will probably never learn how to spell
[02:05:59] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah... but if you illiminate the gun aspect, they're left with weapons that are more close range.
[02:06:08] <A-L-P-H-A> instead of a cowardly use of a gun.
[02:06:08] <les> jymmm link was bad...but I know what an 1894 is
[02:06:39] <les> I just make guns to do the stock woodworking really
[02:06:48] <A-L-P-H-A> Or do what Chris Rock suggests... give every guns... but charge $10,000K per bullet. :) It'd make people think before placing a cap in someone's ass.
[02:06:49] <Jymmm> les It's been used and abused. Even the stock has been 'repaired' (if you want to call it 'repaired'
[02:07:45] <les> Funny I make turkey calls and dn't hunt haha
[02:08:16] <les> I do like to plink my 1851 navy colt though
[02:08:16] <Jymmm> les That's ok, I make foam cutters and never cut any foam
[02:12:20] <les> I am doing a silly thing and using a $250 AAAA curley maple blank for this Hawken
[02:12:35] <les> this is on my time off ...just a hobby
[02:12:37] <robin_sz> if you are going to nitric it ...
[02:12:44] <les> I am
[02:12:49] <robin_sz> seems a waste of good wood :)
[02:12:57] <les> heh
[02:13:09] <gezr> im going to go to bed, but before I go, I want to leave you guys with a little gingle
[02:13:31] <les> I will nitric the AA remnants for the curley maple calls first to test it
[02:13:50] <les> geszr: ok
[02:14:08] <gezr> my, bologna has a first name, its O-S-C-A-R. My bologna has a second name its M-A-Y-E-R, I love to eat it every day, if you ask me why Ill say " Cause Oscar Mayer has a way with B-O-L-O-G-N-A!.
[02:14:25] <les> heh
[02:14:27] <gezr> hahaha
[02:14:38] <les> good night gezr
[02:14:40] <gezr> I would love to have the nick Phil but its taken
[02:15:01] <gezr> yall have fun :)
[02:15:06] <les> k
[02:15:55] <les> robin: nitric is supposed to be the absolute best for maple or english sycamore
[02:16:01] <robin_sz> night gezr
[02:16:04] <les> we'll see
[02:16:24] <robin_sz> went to look at a local plating company ...
[02:16:32] <robin_sz> that was fune
[02:16:34] <robin_sz> fun
[02:16:43] <robin_sz> so you have all these tanks ..
[02:16:48] <robin_sz> non labelled
[02:16:59] <robin_sz> and various jugs, buckets etc
[02:17:18] <robin_sz> and theyre doing small batches of cyanical zinc
[02:17:34] <les> I studied a good bit today on birefringence of alpha and hemicellulose vs drying oils and other resins
[02:17:59] <robin_sz> so theres a hydrochloric bath, some rinses and then the zinc-cyanide ...
[02:18:05] <les> cyanical zinc...hmmm
[02:18:17] <robin_sz> or "prussic acid waiting to happen"
[02:18:27] <les> yeah
[02:18:50] <les> hydrocyanic
[02:19:04] <robin_sz> wahtver, its death
[02:19:16] <les> yup
[02:19:43] <robin_sz> if it was me, Id want some sort of wash bath through to another room
[02:19:48] <les> CN...just say no
[02:20:04] <robin_sz> its OK in small doses :)
[02:20:19] <les> yeah like in peaches and apples
[02:20:19] <robin_sz> smells like cherries :)
[02:20:27] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[02:20:27] <les> or cherries
[02:20:49] <les> or almonds
[02:20:53] <robin_sz> yep
[02:21:05] <robin_sz> but too much is a bad thing
[02:21:16] <les> with cn...yeah
[02:22:18] <robin_sz> anyway
[02:22:24] <robin_sz> its late ... wife in bed already
[02:22:27] <les> Nastiest stuff I had to deal with was Iron carbonyl
[02:22:31] <les> at intersil
[02:22:35] <robin_sz> nasty?
[02:22:44] <les> one good breth and that's it
[02:22:52] <robin_sz> ick
[02:22:52] <les> breath
[02:23:05] <robin_sz> worse than hydroflouric acid?
[02:23:42] <les> oh I had to send my workers to the ER for HF about once a month
[02:23:53] <robin_sz> nice
[02:24:12] <robin_sz> did they lose apendages?
[02:24:41] <les> HF is the primary wet chemistry for etching sio2 in integrated circuits
[02:24:50] <robin_sz> ever seen the antidote kits for cyanide poisoning?
[02:24:56] <les> no
[02:25:17] <robin_sz> 3 huge syringes of .. I forget what ... potassium sulphate I tink
[02:25:19] <les> activated carbon?
[02:25:21] <robin_sz> sound right?
[02:25:35] <robin_sz> hmm
[02:25:37] <robin_sz> anyway ..
[02:25:54] <robin_sz> the instructions basically say: give all 3 in 5 minutes IV
[02:26:31] <robin_sz> note: this will possibly prove fatal, but if it works out its not quite as fatal as the cynaide
[02:26:59] <les> hmm potassium sulfate... double repacement reaction? precipitates potassium cyanide?
[02:27:22] <les> that would not work
[02:27:41] <les> must be something else
[02:27:53] <les> I only had a year of chemistry
[02:27:54] <Jymmm> les once a month?!
[02:27:59] <les> like you?
[02:28:23] <robin_sz> sodioum thiosulphate a
[02:28:34] <les> fixer
[02:28:37] <robin_sz> and amyl nitrate apparently
[02:29:08] <les> hmm oxidizers
[02:29:17] <les> must break down the cn
[02:30:36] <A-L-P-H-A> TSP?
[02:30:44] <les> heh
[02:30:55] <A-L-P-H-A> ESP with a hint of PMS and ADD.
[02:30:57] <les> I need some toclean off mildew
[02:31:10] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A hands les some PMS.
[02:31:31] <les> ALPHA described my first ex wife.
[02:31:54] <A-L-P-H-A> I intend to be only married once, with maybe a few affairs.
[02:32:00] <les> heh
[02:32:32] <A-L-P-H-A> nah. I'm very faithful... just that I need to find the perfect person to settledown with.
[02:32:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I've had my fun in university. :)
[02:32:48] <les> Let me give you a preview
[02:32:56] <les> they give sex.
[02:33:06] <les> They want money.
[02:33:15] <les> How much?
[02:33:16] <Jymmm> hooker ?
[02:33:19] <les> All.
[02:33:25] <A-L-P-H-A> preview to which? the hooker? wife? mistress?
[02:33:38] <Jymmm> actually, a hoker is probably cheaper than a ex/wife
[02:33:49] <les> truly
[02:34:09] <A-L-P-H-A> alomony! yummy... with a side of caviar.
[02:34:16] <Jymmm> les did you write up the verbage on the patents you have?
[02:34:32] <les> some
[02:34:40] <robin_sz> yeah les, but that because you keep going around marrying teenage duaghters of moonshiners ;)
[02:34:40] <Jymmm> les mirror heater ?
[02:34:49] <Jymmm> rotf @ robin_sz
[02:35:00] <A-L-P-H-A> les... so how many wives have you had. [meaning how many have you been married to, not meaning other people's wives]
[02:35:03] <les> I had meetings with lawyers and made up goofy technical terms and they used them
[02:35:11] <Jymmm> les ah, ok.
[02:35:13] <les> 2
[02:35:22] <A-L-P-H-A> 1ex, one current?
[02:35:28] <les> 2 ex
[02:35:31] <robin_sz> * robin_sz just has 1 current
[02:36:03] <robin_sz> I've kept it for 20 years or so now, still seems to work
[02:36:15] <les> lucky robin
[02:36:24] <A-L-P-H-A> les, so you're single, living in the sticks, building wood stuff, and working with metal... sounds like the perfect place... you've procreated I take it... are you just hiding in the woods to avoid alomony?
[02:36:32] <robin_sz> but when it hits 42, I'm trading for two 21yr olds ;)
[02:36:44] <les> I only seemed to meet fairly well off spiled girls
[02:37:01] <les> spoiled
[02:37:01] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, imagine the wife reading that right now... heh... I could just see robin_sz getting slapped upside the head.
[02:37:19] <les> last one was 22 years younger than me
[02:37:26] <robin_sz> good call :)
[02:37:27] <les> I was tired.
[02:37:44] <A-L-P-H-A> les, io have a issue with 17-21 year olds... I need to find girls closer to my age. (25)
[02:37:44] <Jymmm> les: See, you need one your age, but wiht the BODY of a 21yo
[02:37:53] <A-L-P-H-A> 17 was when I was 21.
[02:38:12] <les> aw the ones my age are all pruned out
[02:38:15] <les> no good
[02:38:19] <A-L-P-H-A> OH! damn... anyone seen that boflex commercial? with the 50 yr old grandmother?
[02:38:27] <A-L-P-H-A> bowflex.
[02:38:32] <Jymmm> les Find a plastic surgeon and trade him services.
[02:38:33] <les> she ain't 50
[02:38:37] <les> no way
[02:38:48] <robin_sz> right, 100% absolutely bedtime now
[02:38:50] <A-L-P-H-A> les, it'd be false advertising if she wasn't.
[02:38:53] <robin_sz> see ya
[02:38:55] <Jymmm> in the last shot of her, she looks 40ish
[02:38:58] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, but we're talking about women!
[02:39:18] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A remember he has one he's gonna trade soon enough
[02:39:35] <A-L-P-H-A> I met a woman that was 36 at the time, Italian woman... I was 21... I was hitting on her like mad... cause I SERIOUSLY thought she was like 23MAX!
[02:39:50] <les> I have taken a break from that...but the girl at the local food mart seems sweet on me
[02:40:04] <les> but only when I drive up in the BMW.
[02:40:11] <A-L-P-H-A> les, hahaha.
[02:40:13] <Jymmm> les that sucks
[02:40:13] <A-L-P-H-A> what do you drive?
[02:40:25] <les> mostly a truck
[02:40:30] <A-L-P-H-A> the beamer
[02:40:35] <A-L-P-H-A> 645i? 745i? :D
[02:40:36] <les> but I have a BMW as well.
[02:40:44] <les> just a 325
[02:40:47] <A-L-P-H-A> bah.
[02:40:55] <les> haha
[02:41:02] <A-L-P-H-A> I want this... sec.
[02:41:22] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2006-Pontiac-Solstice-Roadster.htm
[02:41:25] <A-L-P-H-A> THAT!
[02:41:25] <Jymmm> les when you find a gal that's social wiht you when you pull up in the truck, you might just have something there.
[02:41:27] <A-L-P-H-A> IS!
[02:41:29] <A-L-P-H-A> THE!
[02:41:30] <A-L-P-H-A> BOMB!
[02:41:49] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, or she has a mom and dad that are brother and sister. :D
[02:42:11] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A or her dad is her brother!
[02:42:23] <les> cool
[02:42:36] <les> remember I worked for BMW a bit
[02:42:37] <A-L-P-H-A> $26K CDN + taxes + frieght.
[02:42:42] <A-L-P-H-A> CHEAP!
[02:42:53] <les> I did their poeder clearcoat stuff
[02:42:57] <A-L-P-H-A> not super fast... nor do I care for that... I just love it's lines.
[02:42:59] <les> powder
[02:44:05] <les> my 325 is electronically limited to 129 mph...but have done 155 in europe on the autobahn
[02:44:14] <les> different chip
[02:44:26] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A that sucks, now THIS is a car....
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/634627
[02:44:53] <Jymmm> (original of course, not replica)
[02:45:03] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, screw it... I want a warantee.
[02:45:12] <les> ha fast
[02:45:20] <les> but I drive slow now
[02:45:33] <Jymmm> les 60mph and still in 2nd gear
[02:45:42] <les> when I want to go fast I get in a plane
[02:46:03] <les> oh the 325 is max 90 in second
[02:46:06] <Jymmm> les how you gonna break any speed records in a plane?
[02:46:19] <les> well
[02:46:28] <les> press the stick forward
[02:47:00] <Jymmm> heh
[02:47:22] <les> I opened the window once at about 200 mph and stuck my hand out
[02:47:26] <les> it hurt
[02:47:42] <Jymmm> I bet
[02:48:37] <les> On boring training flights I would see if I could bank the plane by changing the angle of my hand
[02:52:44] <les> I could not
[02:53:42] <les> really really noisey if you open that storm window at that speed
[02:56:14] <Jymmm> les try putting your head out the window next time =)
[02:56:30] <les> no thanks heh
[02:57:08] <les> just the force on your hand must be about 50 lb
[02:57:16] <les> or more
[02:57:43] <les> all I know is that it hurt
[03:03:13] <Jymmm> I bet, I know it can hurt jsut driving down the road
[03:03:39] <Jymmm> do you guys using a tapping head?
[03:03:46] <Jymmm> do you guys use a tapping head?
[03:05:06] <les> I just have a tapping machine
[03:05:13] <Jymmm> machine?
[03:05:37] <les> one of those things with the handle and cast iron base
[03:05:44] <Jymmm> oh
[03:06:07] <les> works ok
[03:06:11] <Jymmm> I was trying to come up with a way to drill/tap up to 1/4-20 cnc wise
[03:06:19] <Jymmm> cnc router wise that is
[03:06:47] <les> metal?
[03:06:57] <Jymmm> aluminum/brass
[03:07:05] <Jymmm> mostly aluminum
[03:07:33] <les> if on the machine you would need a lot more torque than a router spindle can supply
[03:08:01] <les> a gearhead motor I guess
[03:08:36] <Jymmm> what about a hand drill motor?
[03:09:17] <les> not enough I think
[03:09:26] <les> and too fast
[03:09:29] <Jymmm> I was also thinking about using it on that HF mini mill
[03:10:13] <les> the only advice I have is some given to me long ago
[03:10:15] <Jymmm> not that it's CNC, but eventually could be
[03:10:31] <les> use two flute spiral point taps
[03:10:55] <Jymmm> less breakage?
[03:11:02] <les> much less
[03:11:15] <les> also you don't have to reverse them
[03:11:22] <Jymmm> huh?
[03:11:29] <Jymmm> no reverse?
[03:11:45] <les> chips are pushed ahaed of ther cut
[03:11:57] <Jymmm> oh, heh
[03:11:57] <les> no reverse
[03:12:07] <Jymmm> then how you get the tap out?
[03:12:11] <les> try it you'll love it
[03:12:27] <les> limited use in blind holes though
[03:12:38] <les> just reverse
[03:12:48] <Jymmm> but you just said no reverse =)
[03:13:04] <les> well heh until you take it out
[03:13:30] <SWP_Away> A-L-P-H-A: Yes - that's the mill I bought
[03:13:42] <SWP_Away> (just finished the movie)
[03:14:11] <Jymmm> I did a shit load of 4-40 holes with a cordless drill, snapped em like crazy. Hit the tool supply, and I can't remember if I got 2 or 4 flute taps, but man were they sweet. Also learned how nice cutting fluid is too
[03:14:18] <Jymmm> Cinnimon scented
[03:16:57] <les> bottom line: 4 flute hardware store taps are junk.
[03:17:19] <les> but 2 flute spiral taps
[03:17:26] <les> are great
[03:17:53] <les> even for blind holes
[03:17:53] <Jymmm> ok so if HW store is 4 flute, then it was 2 flute I bought.
[03:18:02] <les> ok
[03:18:39] <Jymmm> Man I wish it was easier to tap all those holes... couple hundred by hand
[03:19:00] <Jymmm> which is why I was asking cnc wise
[03:19:22] <les> I had to tap hundreds for my cnc machine
[03:19:41] <Jymmm> les how easy is it to use your tapping machine?
[03:19:49] <les> prob close to a thousand
[03:19:49] <Jymmm> does it save time?
[03:20:07] <les> I taped them using a jig
[03:20:13] <les> it was slow
[03:21:08] <chessie> lo
[03:21:11] <Jymmm> Yeah, it was killing my back after a while.
[03:21:19] <chessie> you want to get you hans on a Lassie tapper
[03:21:32] <les> There are several hundred tapped holes just to ficx the cover plates
[03:21:56] <Jymmm> chessie: come in german sheperare by chance?
[03:22:07] <les> I used just a hand electric drill with a spiral point tap
[03:22:11] <les> not too bad
[03:22:30] <Jymmm> les: that's what I've been doing, but like I said started killing my back
[03:22:37] <les> zing...done...reverse...zing...tap is out
[03:22:40] <chessie> actually, its lassY
[03:22:48] <Jymmm> chessie url?
[03:22:55] <Jymmm> * Jymmm never heard of it
[03:23:24] <les> not familiar with a lssie tapper chessie
[03:23:32] <les> lassie
[03:24:03] <chessie> working on it. it has a vertical spindle, handwheel on top
[03:24:19] <les> oh that is like mine
[03:24:50] <les> and cast iron base?
[03:24:51] <chessie> http://www.lassytools.com/tapper.html
[03:25:46] <les> oh...heh I have one
[03:25:56] <les> different manufacturer
[03:26:00] <chessie> if you are using spiral pointed gun taps, and you have open (no bottom holes) use a drill press
[03:26:01] <les> looks the same
[03:26:05] <les> very handy
[03:26:27] <chessie> but you need to wire it for reverse
[03:26:49] <les> I even use gun taps for blind holes
[03:26:50] <chessie> i also use my mill to tap under power
[03:27:01] <les> the a bottoming one to finish
[03:27:02] <chessie> blind holes are touchy
[03:27:05] <chessie> yes
[03:27:06] <Jymmm> chessie you do a quick reverse on the mill?
[03:27:22] <SWP_Away> http://www.tapmatic.com ($$$ but excellent)
[03:27:35] <SWP_Away> (like twice what you want to spend on your router)
[03:27:45] <Jymmm> SWP_Away: it's no the tapmatic, but the accessoeries that get ya
[03:27:52] <les> I can plug the motor for reverse...all tools are 3 phase
[03:27:58] <SWP_Away> the tapmatic gets you first :)
[03:28:00] <chessie> no, i bump the switch to go forward until its through and let go of the switch
[03:28:02] <Jymmm> $30 for a rubber collet - screw that
[03:28:06] <chessie> inertia to stop it.
[03:28:13] <chessie> sorry,
[03:28:26] <Jymmm> chessie oh, so ther'es a but of a pause in there.
[03:28:39] <chessie> inertia of spindle to stop it. then let go of the feed handle and reverse
[03:28:43] <chessie> it works itself out
[03:28:46] <les> right
[03:29:12] <chessie> i don't know if i am expaling right, but try it on some scraps. you will get the hang of it
[03:29:23] <les> hey chessie...first visit to this irc channel?
[03:29:37] <chessie> i don;t like tapmatics. i like procurnier better
[03:29:41] <Jymmm> chessie you explained well, thank you =)
[03:29:43] <chessie> umm, like 2nd or 3rd
[03:29:51] <les> oh ok
[03:29:54] <les> welcome
[03:30:11] <chessie> i was here a coulple of weeks ago, trying to id steppers and hoping to find an alternate to geckos
[03:30:19] <Jymmm> chessie why procurnier ?
[03:30:32] <chessie> umm, metal collets that are line $10
[03:30:44] <Jymmm> chessie Ah,
[03:30:52] <chessie> you need dedicated collets to each tap size
[03:31:02] <chessie> i think they are simpler
[03:31:15] <Jymmm> Yeah, I didn't like the idea of a rubber collet
[03:31:22] <Jymmm> especially at $30/each
[03:31:24] <les> alternate to geckos= $75 copley 412 servo amps on ebay
[03:31:30] <chessie> fewer bits and peices. that and since they are not as popular, they don;t command hight resae peices
[03:32:30] <les> I have a jacobs rubaflex chuck I was given
[03:32:33] <chessie> i am playing around with debain and emc
[03:32:39] <les> don't use it much
[03:32:49] <les> fits L00 spindle
[03:32:54] <chessie> on a cheapy celeron 500, 256Mb or ram
[03:32:54] <Jymmm> Hey! This looks interesting.... CNC self-reversing tapping head
http://www.procunier.com/b.html
[03:33:06] <les> $$$
[03:33:46] <les> well chessie this is emc headquarters I GUESS
[03:34:01] <les> my caps lock is sticking
[03:34:21] <chessie> machine has integrated SiS graphics card, so instead i put in pci card
[03:34:50] <les> I use servo emc in a commercial shop.
[03:35:49] <chessie> but i am having trouble binding the card to Xconfig
[03:36:01] <Jymmm> Ok, about $750
[03:36:31] <les> I just use an old ATI...no problem
[03:36:36] <Jymmm> Do oyu think something like that is the way to go if tapping on a regualr basis?
[03:36:49] <les> I have an older redhat install
[03:37:26] <Jymmm> Heh, do you think they'll send me an eval unit for the cost of shipping?
[03:37:50] <les> Being commercial I only change revs when there is a clear economic reason to do so
[03:40:25] <les> Jymmm: dream on
[03:40:31] <les> heh
[03:40:46] <Jymmm> les I just checked the price list
[03:40:55] <Jymmm> http://www.procunier.com/files/Price_List.pdf
[03:42:23] <les> outchie
[03:42:43] <les> or even ouchie
[03:43:07] <Jymmm> they even have a quick change option too
[03:43:25] <les> but I must remember...money ain't worth nothin
[03:44:05] <les> the REAL inflation rate for most folks is in the 16% range
[03:44:27] <Jymmm> If I can tap 100 holes in 30 minutes, I'd be happy.
[03:44:40] <les> hehso would I
[03:45:10] <Jymmm> and be it CNC controlled. that ouwld be sweet
[03:45:17] <les> If I could tap 30 holes in a hundred minutes I would be happy
[03:45:24] <Jymmm> heh, no shit
[03:46:07] <Jymmm> les We go in and buy the tappign head together... you get it the odd months, I get it the even months =)
[03:46:15] <les> heh
[03:46:49] <les> the funnyest thing about tapping...
[03:47:00] <les> is one particular size
[03:47:09] <les> imperial 6-32
[03:47:27] <les> 6-32 taps break unusually badly
[03:47:34] <Jymmm> oh yeah, I remember you saying about that, thus why I'm avoidign that size now =)
[03:47:46] <les> avoid 6-32 treads in any design
[03:47:58] <Jymmm> SURVIVOR in 2 minutes
[03:48:08] <les> hehok
[03:48:14] <Jymmm> bbl
[03:48:19] <les> ok
[03:48:37] <les> I'm off to
[03:48:49] <Jymmm> G'Night learath
[03:48:55] <Jymmm> G'Night les
[03:49:07] <les> good to talk to you chessie
[03:49:16] <les> g'night jymmmm
[03:53:43] <chessie> thanks guys, i am off to lunixhelp land
[03:54:00] <les> k later
[04:48:44] <Jymmm> Why I watch SURVIVOR, I have no clue =)
[05:48:51] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, dirty emancipated women that are out for money? out to do almost anything for $1 million?
[05:49:16] <Jymmm> something like that =)
[05:50:40] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A hey, you ever ply with skate bearings in a linear motion config?
[05:51:04] <Jymmm> play
[05:59:18] <A-L-P-H-A> I've seen it.
[06:00:05] <A-L-P-H-A> where it's like 6 bearings, aligned around a shaft to move
[06:00:38] <Jymmm> 6? haven't seen 6, 3 @ 120 degress or 4 @ 90 degress I've seen
[06:02:21] <A-L-P-H-A> 3 @ 120 is probably best
[06:03:01] <Jymmm> What I was thinking is if you take two skate bearing seperated with a lil spacer, and let the edges of the bearings ride on the rail would work.
[06:03:03] <A-L-P-H-A> but you don't have access to milling or lathe equipment
[06:03:50] <A-L-P-H-A> I'd let two sets touch the shaft, with the last set spaced the thickness of a dollar bill.
[06:04:24] <Jymmm> so like this.....
[06:04:28] <A-L-P-H-A> you'll need a adjustable cam.
[06:04:51] <Jymmm> --+--
[06:04:57] <Jymmm> | | |
[06:04:58] <Jymmm> | | |
[06:04:59] <Jymmm> | | |
[06:05:07] <A-L-P-H-A> don't do ascii art.
[06:05:08] <Jymmm> err forget that
[06:05:54] <Jymmm> ok, put to bearings againest each other, now put a 1/8" spacer between them, let the rail ride on the corners of each bearing diagnolly
[06:06:27] <Jymmm> so the force on the bearings it's on the flats, but on the edges of the bearings
[06:06:38] <Jymmm> s/it's/isn;t/
[06:07:28] <Jymmm> make sense?
[06:08:14] <A-L-P-H-A> bad.
[06:08:22] <A-L-P-H-A> bearings are ment to run flat.
[06:08:24] <A-L-P-H-A> use the flats.
[06:08:36] <A-L-P-H-A> otherwise the weight will/could cut into the rail
[06:09:29] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A take away all my fun will ya!
[06:10:46] <Jymmm> you know they have smaller than the standard sized skate bearings, I wonder if the less surface area would be an issue?
[06:12:53] <A-L-P-H-A> you're like trying to hammer a nail, with the shaft of a screw driver...
[06:13:50] <Jymmm> you mean overall or just the bearings?
[06:13:52] <A-L-P-H-A> you're not able to mill anything, you're not able to turn anything, and you're expecting to build a CNC machine for under $500? heh. that's just not possible.
[06:13:57] <A-L-P-H-A> overall.
[06:14:26] <A-L-P-H-A> if so, how good do you think it'll be?
[06:14:42] <Jymmm> I've done the impossible with the improbably many times before sucessfully, gues I'm just so accustom to it.
[06:15:34] <A-L-P-H-A> buy linear rails, and linear slides. it's the simplest, and very economical move. As well as replacements are redily available. VXB (I think) sells linear bearings. Also, check out teflon based linear slides.
[06:16:40] <Jymmm> Even from VBX... it will cost $360 in rail and bearings alone.
[06:17:08] <Jymmm> As far as mechanics, I had to do it for ~$150
[06:17:16] <A-L-P-H-A> look, router head = $200 bucks. Collet system, $50-200. Linear slides = $300. Table metal = $200-500. Stepper motors. Stepper Drivers.
[06:17:20] <Jymmm> that's $50/axis
[06:18:01] <A-L-P-H-A> if maybe you had $500 for the TABLE + axes. Sans electronics and motors.
[06:18:29] <A-L-P-H-A> why am I using the word sans. :/
[06:18:49] <Jymmm> The goal is $500. And I'm trying my best to accompish that.
[06:19:33] <Jymmm> I've being reserved in getting the HF mini-mill till I'm at the point that I HAVE to, but I want a solid design and logisitcs down before I make a purchase.
[06:20:05] <A-L-P-H-A> well... hey... you can probably do it... but how well do you think you can do it? I mean.. fuck yeah. it's completely possible. you could even make your own bearings from wire... mine your own metal. cast your own magnets....
[06:20:12] <Jymmm> I have spent too much money on tools/parts in the past without thinkin g ahead and planning, so that's what I'm doing here.
[06:20:55] <Jymmm> bearings are far too costly to meet this "budget", so I've having to think a lil outside the box is all.
[06:21:13] <Jymmm> Hell I might end up using UHMW for the linear bearings for all I know.
[06:21:17] <A-L-P-H-A> have you looked into teflon based bearings?
[06:21:27] <A-L-P-H-A> they're like $30/each.
[06:21:45] <Jymmm> right, and I need to keep it to $50 per axis
[06:22:01] <Jymmm> including mounts, rails, and bearings.
[06:22:35] <Jymmm> (I'm not a teflon fan in general, too toxic imo)
[06:23:22] <Jymmm> UHMW is USDA approved and the MSDS looks good too!
[06:24:14] <Jymmm> Bah, I'm really overthinking this too much.
[06:24:24] <A-L-P-H-A> Frelon 1/2" linear bearing pillow block ... $38/each
[06:24:37] <A-L-P-H-A> mcmaster page 971
[06:25:05] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, sure $50/axis CAN be done... but you have to do the work... and you don't have the tools.
[06:25:14] <Jymmm> $50 per axis, that's $25 for one side, bearing + rail
[06:25:34] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A [22:30:17] <Jymmm> I've being reserved in getting the HF mini-mill till I'm at the point that I HAVE to, but I want a solid design and logisitcs down before I make a purchase.
[06:25:43] <A-L-P-H-A> how long of an axis?
[06:26:09] <Jymmm> 4' max on the X, 2' on the Y, and ~6" on Z
[06:27:07] <A-L-P-H-A> heh. I'll just drop the conversation now. like might as well build it out of toothpicks, and dental floss. those are not realistic expectations on that budget.
[06:28:07] <Jymmm> Like I said, that's the goal, doens't mean the dimensions can't change
[06:28:16] <Jymmm> nothing is set in titanium =)
[06:29:21] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm still waiting on my collet system.
[06:29:30] <Jymmm> get the drive yet?
[06:29:33] <A-L-P-H-A> spent $189USD for kicks.
[06:29:43] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, it's here, it came yesterday? or was it two days ago?
[06:29:48] <A-L-P-H-A> monday or tuesday
[06:30:09] <A-L-P-H-A> got the manual, but I haven't hooked it up yet. I'll do that when I wake today.
[06:30:09] <Jymmm> tried it out yet?
[06:30:17] <Jymmm> lol ok
[06:30:25] <A-L-P-H-A> I was out most of the day today... [real work]
[06:30:32] <Jymmm> Yeah I hear ya
[06:30:48] <Jymmm> do yo want to know why I have $500 for a goal?
[06:30:53] <A-L-P-H-A> nope
[06:31:07] <Jymmm> theres actually a legit reason
[06:31:37] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, no need to justify yourself to me.
[06:34:00] <Jymmm> It's this --->
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7501944835
[06:34:21] <Jymmm> he starts these out at $375, and they ALL go for about $1000
[06:35:04] <Jymmm> If he can do them for $375 and break even, I should be able to do something a lil nicer for $500.
[06:38:16] <A-L-P-H-A> haha... particle board.
[06:38:42] <A-L-P-H-A> dang. that's good.
[06:39:23] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... I've got a radial arm saw... couple of slices, some drill rod, some UHMW, press the damn bearings into the UHMW.
[06:39:46] <A-L-P-H-A> hand router = $25 [crap, but works]
[06:39:58] <A-L-P-H-A> stepper motors... heh.
[06:40:53] <A-L-P-H-A> add the stepper driver program I wrote (with the help of SWP), and punch out some. heh
[06:42:05] <A-L-P-H-A> issue with uhmw, is that once it's used more and more, the friction will make the steppers to work more.
[06:43:48] <A-L-P-H-A> but yeah, it's doable if you wanted to use particle board... but you need some maching equiment, reams, wood router.
[06:43:54] <A-L-P-H-A> wonder where he's getting the steppers.
[06:46:52] <Jymmm> probably the 3 for $80 - same as the driver
[06:47:02] <A-L-P-H-A> driver it easy
[06:47:27] <Jymmm> what gets me is he says "all ball bearing slides"
[06:47:37] <A-L-P-H-A> they aren't actually.
[06:47:43] <A-L-P-H-A> look at the Z axis
[06:48:21] <Jymmm> ok lets say not the Z, but look at the Y
[06:48:38] <A-L-P-H-A> the Y and X are...
[06:49:13] <A-L-P-H-A> he's using bearings on home make pillow blocks.
[06:49:26] <A-L-P-H-A> and then bushings for the slides.
[06:50:42] <A-L-P-H-A> that annoys me a little.
[06:51:05] <Jymmm> ok let break it down by cost... $400 - $30 for the router, $145 for the driver, $80 for the motors, $30 for the PS, That's $285, leaving $115 for everything else.
[06:52:43] <Jymmm> then he also says "dual ball bearing screw end supports"
[06:52:47] <A-L-P-H-A> is that like a dremel router?
[06:53:58] <Jymmm> Nope, it's this one
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44914
[06:54:09] <Jymmm> he even says it is
[06:54:26] <A-L-P-H-A> oh.
[06:54:27] <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
[06:54:47] <Jymmm> This one is better though
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33833
[06:54:52] <Jymmm> same EXACT price
[06:54:54] <A-L-P-H-A> so yeah, it's completely doable if you have the equipment to do it.
[06:55:20] <A-L-P-H-A> interesting
[06:56:00] <Jymmm> But even with the equipment, how is he getting the linear bearings for all the axis (XY) for under $115
[06:56:55] <A-L-P-H-A> I'd say screw it, and just acetyl bushings.
[06:57:01] <A-L-P-H-A> use
[07:02:00] <Jymmm> Well, I THINK I can use skatebearings, just would like to come up with a design that works for all three axis if I do.
[07:03:11] <Jymmm> Can you sorta understand now why I'm so adiment about it?
[07:03:48] <Jymmm> Even if I dropped it down to 12" x 24"
[07:04:49] <Jymmm> In this image, you can see he's using skate bearings on the screwshaft,
[07:04:49] <A-L-P-H-A> sure.
[07:04:50] <Jymmm> http://i16.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/38/0c/45_12_b.JPG
[07:05:01] <Jymmm> but he's turn the screw ends.
[07:05:16] <Jymmm> turned
[07:05:30] <A-L-P-H-A> so? buy a lathe. :)
[07:06:22] <Jymmm> it's on sale -->
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33684
[07:07:48] <Jymmm> the problem is I can only see ONE use for the lathe at the moment.
[07:07:59] <A-L-P-H-A> get the 9x20 instead.
[07:08:11] <A-L-P-H-A> that mini is useless
[07:08:13] <Jymmm> If I can justify it, or get all other aspects down, then I can easily buy the thing
[07:08:43] <Jymmm> This one?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45861
[07:09:08] <A-L-P-H-A> yes
[07:09:19] <A-L-P-H-A> you will be actually able to use it for real work.
[07:09:20] <Jymmm> it's 230 lbs
[07:09:24] <A-L-P-H-A> not just TINY things
[07:09:31] <A-L-P-H-A> so, what? you can't lift that?
[07:10:11] <A-L-P-H-A> if I were in the market for one, I'd buy that.
[07:10:13] <A-L-P-H-A> seriously.
[07:10:17] <Jymmm> I'm in an apartment, the area I have to work has to be SHARED between a lathe, a mill, and anythign else.
[07:10:35] <Jymmm> by taking down on, and putting up the other.
[07:10:39] <A-L-P-H-A> you'll need a shop or a garage. :)
[07:10:40] <Jymmm> s/on/one/
[07:10:48] <Jymmm> which I dont have.
[07:11:02] <Jymmm> If I buy the mini, I can always sell it later on.
[07:11:10] <A-L-P-H-A> no family with space?
[07:11:17] <Jymmm> no
[07:11:24] <A-L-P-H-A> too bad.
[07:11:30] <Jymmm> I've been trying to say " I HAVE NO SPACE" for weeks now
[07:12:06] <Jymmm> the mini mill is 150 lbs, and the mini-lather is 90 lbs, at least I can swap those two out fairly easy
[07:12:09] <A-L-P-H-A> rent a store/warehouse [like the ones with individual garage doors.
[07:12:18] <Jymmm> I can't justify it yet.
[07:12:27] <Jymmm> it's like $100/mo
[07:12:31] <Jymmm> for a small one
[07:12:38] <A-L-P-H-A> does it have electricity?
[07:12:42] <Jymmm> no
[07:12:43] <A-L-P-H-A> that's important too
[07:12:54] <Jymmm> would need a generator
[07:12:56] <A-L-P-H-A> add a generator. :D hehe... they probably won't like that.
[07:13:17] <Jymmm> they permit them, I've alreayd asked. AND they will accept UPS/FedEx shipment too.
[07:13:47] <Jymmm> But, I have to start somewhere first.
[07:13:48] <A-L-P-H-A> so you're set... all you need to do, is kick it into gear... and learn how to machine, and stuff.
[07:14:00] <A-L-P-H-A> McDonalds is hiring. :D
[07:14:10] <A-L-P-H-A> sorry..
[07:14:15] <A-L-P-H-A> that was a low blow...
[07:15:02] <Jymmm> I have the money for all this. I was going to buy a $15K laser engraver, but that amount of money for a 12" x24" @ 35 Watts didn't sit too well with me.
[07:16:22] <Jymmm> I've set aside a $5000 budget for everything, but I need to spend wisely
[07:17:15] <Jymmm> a $350 lathe comes out to be something like $700 by the time you add tooling.
[07:17:40] <Jymmm> a $450 mill comes out the same way.
[07:18:05] <A-L-P-H-A> probablymore
[07:18:12] <A-L-P-H-A> mills are expensive...
[07:18:19] <A-L-P-H-A> but most things are one time purchases.
[07:18:28] <kb1_kanobe> However, if you have space and get _really_ big then things start getting _really_ cheap, relatively.
[07:18:49] <Jymmm> kb1_kanobe partment, no space
[07:18:53] <Jymmm> apartment
[07:19:06] <kb1_kanobe> Ah yes, I feel your pain :-)
[07:19:10] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't.
[07:19:17] <A-L-P-H-A> I just pour salt into his wounds.
[07:19:19] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Yeah, but your a bastard!
[07:19:28] <Jymmm> I'm used to it by now =)
[07:19:43] <Jymmm> lol
[07:19:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I am actually helping... but probably not to my best ability by far.
[07:20:04] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A (dont sweat the small shit =)
[07:20:26] <kb1_kanobe> I saw an older NC turret lathe a month or so ago. canadian$500 would have taken it away, but you'd've needed a crane...
[07:20:49] <A-L-P-H-A> $5K budget... lets see... shop + mill + lathe + radial arm saw+ miter saw + bandsaw.... nope not enough.
[07:20:54] <kb1_kanobe> It'd've been perfect for emc.
[07:20:57] <Jymmm> kb1_kanobe: if you ever need a moose, A-L-P-H-A is your mammal!
[07:21:08] <kb1_kanobe> lol
[07:21:10] <A-L-P-H-A> kb1_kanobe, where abouts?
[07:21:15] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm in the GTA.
[07:21:22] <kb1_kanobe> Vancouver, BC.
[07:21:31] <A-L-P-H-A> way far.
[07:21:34] <Jymmm> I am considering this though
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37151
[07:21:52] <A-L-P-H-A> that's a good deal
[07:21:59] <kb1_kanobe> Agreed.
[07:22:15] <kb1_kanobe> Looks sheet-metal, not cast iron, but still.
[07:22:18] <A-L-P-H-A> I have it that already... the sheet metal stand is useless.
[07:22:28] <Jymmm> the legs are sheet metal, the base is cast
[07:22:35] <kb1_kanobe> Ahhh.
[07:22:59] <A-L-P-H-A> mine is the bigger bro of that... just slightly though
[07:23:08] <Jymmm> but becasue I have no more, I'm think I could resue the wheels and make it store vertically somehow.
[07:23:17] <Jymmm> s/more/room/
[07:23:30] <Jymmm> just low to the ground is all
[07:23:39] <Jymmm> when in use
[07:24:04] <kb1_kanobe> You could look at something like
http://www.cvfsupplycompany.com/porbansaw.html if you're tight for space.
[07:24:48] <Jymmm> like this --->
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47840
[07:25:06] <kb1_kanobe> Yeah. :-)
[07:25:48] <Jymmm> Since the other one can do vertical, I think it would be a better choice. I could stor it covered in the garden shed out back.
[07:29:32] <Jymmm> And why ca't I use the shed to work in you ask.... Shed: 5 foot tall, Jymmm: 6'4" tall
[07:29:40] <kb1_kanobe> Ouch.
[07:29:45] <A-L-P-H-A> hahahahhahahahahaha
[07:29:47] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[07:29:55] <A-L-P-H-A> you couldn't fit into an audi TT.
[07:30:10] <Jymmm> I've driven a Mazda Miata
[07:30:57] <Jymmm> Note: The top was down, and the top of thw windshield as level with my adams apple.
[07:30:58] <A-L-P-H-A> woohoo! if it flips you're decapatated.
[07:31:12] <Jymmm> s/as/was/
[07:33:00] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: I only have one thing to say to that.... "Fuck you and the horse drawn lathe you rode in on!"
[07:33:30] <A-L-P-H-A> no thanks... maybe with your GF though
[07:33:36] <A-L-P-H-A> :) hehehe
[07:33:41] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A you use M$ right?
[07:33:53] <A-L-P-H-A> from time to time
[07:34:46] <Jymmm> Ok, transfering some cd's to dvds. a couple of the files on this one CD have unicode file names. One is a sero without a slash, the other is with a slash.
[07:35:11] <Jymmm> XP will NOT copy these files from the cd to the hdd, says the file already exists.
[07:35:18] <A-L-P-H-A> sero?
[07:35:22] <Jymmm> zero
[07:35:36] <Jymmm> no matter what I try, nuttin works.
[07:35:43] <A-L-P-H-A> cause it's using escaped characters... it won't work.
[07:35:59] <Jymmm> XP is unicode based by default
[07:36:02] <A-L-P-H-A> what burned it?
[07:36:15] <A-L-P-H-A> not for filenames.
[07:36:28] <A-L-P-H-A> or some weird copy protection
[07:36:57] <Jymmm> what I finelly ended up doing is get all the other cd's to the hdd, except this one, then created a UDF iamge file in nero, but had it cache directly for the cd itself instead of the hdd.
[07:37:18] <Jymmm> NERO nor RAR has any problem with the filenames, just explorer.
[07:37:38] <A-L-P-H-A> dunno. when I use filenames, I use only valid ascii characters.
[07:37:45] <Jymmm> and there is no mention of it in M$ KB.
[07:38:11] <Jymmm> these are VALID ISO characters, just WinExplorer is bitching
[07:38:33] <Jymmm> or at least the copy fucntion is
[07:38:40] <Jymmm> the read has no problem.
[07:40:35] <A-L-P-H-A> I've had issues renaming a file to .htaccess.
[07:40:45] <A-L-P-H-A> so I just did it in dos "ren htacceess .htaccess:
[07:40:47] <A-L-P-H-A> so I just did it in dos "ren htacceess .htaccess
[07:40:49] <A-L-P-H-A> so I just did it in dos "ren htacceess .htaccess"
[07:40:51] <A-L-P-H-A> there we go
[07:41:05] <Jymmm> ah, that's becasue it doesn't like . as first char. It see it as path
[07:41:22] <Jymmm> I just found that in the KB yesterday when I was searching this problem.
[07:46:53] <kb1_kanobe> .part
[07:48:32] <kb1_kanobe> * kb1_kanobe appoligises for his bad manners...
[07:48:33] <Jymmm> wb
[07:48:36] <kb1_kanobe> 'gnight all. :-)
[07:48:50] <Jymmm> Nah, not at all. Just thought I might have scared ya is all
[07:48:59] <kb1_kanobe> No worries.
[07:49:03] <Jymmm> G'Night kb1_kanobe
[07:49:31] <A-L-P-H-A> hopefully my DA300 collet will be here soon
[07:49:57] <Jymmm> for?
[07:50:07] <A-L-P-H-A> highspeed milling
[07:51:08] <Jymmm> I meant what machine is it for
[07:51:46] <A-L-P-H-A> lathe. making my own highspeed spindle. :) for under $75... :D hahahahah but I have the tools to do so.
[07:52:05] <A-L-P-H-A> making a highspeed milling attachment for my lathe.
[07:52:11] <Jymmm> ah, cool.
[07:52:15] <A-L-P-H-A> the lathe already has an XYZ and now an A axis.
[07:53:12] <Jymmm> tease
[07:53:35] <Jymmm> I hope your marking some money with all this
[07:53:58] <A-L-P-H-A> if I make a motor adapter for my rotary table, I'll have another 4 axis machine on my mill.
[07:59:14] <Jymmm> Ok, I have an appointment with Mr Pillow.
[07:59:19] <Jymmm> G'Night Folks!
[07:59:21] <A-L-P-H-A> later
[09:35:15] <anonimasu> good morning
[09:38:23] <robin_sz> meep!
[09:38:52] <robin_sz> heh, look what I just read somewhere:
[09:38:54] <robin_sz> > Try latest version of Mach3 - I think Art has fixed this so it senses
[09:38:54] <robin_sz> > abs or inc arcs.
[09:39:15] <robin_sz> auto guessing abs or inc IJ in arcs
[09:39:58] <robin_sz> that *cannot* be the right thing to do
[09:49:30] <anonimasu> wb
[10:37:55] <anonimasu> :)
[10:48:01] <anonimasu> hm, I wonder how much motor I'd need for a toolpost grinder..
[10:52:51] <paul_c> 100-150W
[11:05:34] <anonimasu> ok
[11:05:38] <anonimasu> not too much
[11:06:12] <anonimasu> my alu havent arrived yet..
[11:06:13] <anonimasu> :(
[11:06:58] <paul_c> toolpost grinding is usually with small wheels running at high RPM
[11:07:45] <anonimasu> yep..
[11:07:50] <anonimasu> I was thinking about machining shafts..
[11:07:55] <anonimasu> and doing some ID turning for bearings
[11:08:25] <anonimasu> hm, I have today off maybe I should be working on my jog wheel stuff..
[11:09:14] <anonimasu> maybe :)
[11:11:04] <anonimasu> I am having a bit of trouble with my accels..
[11:11:47] <anonimasu> paul_c: what's up with you today?
[11:13:10] <paul_c> Trying to decide if it's worth doing any more with EMC
[11:13:19] <anonimasu> hm ok
[11:16:33] <anonimasu> I wish I could help with anything..
[11:18:03] <paul_c> actually...... there might be something....
[11:18:39] <anonimasu> hm, like what?
[11:18:45] <anonimasu> except for doing the translation to swedish..
[12:12:43] <les> looking for a tool post grinder?
[12:15:41] <anonimasu> oh, looking to build one :)
[12:15:48] <anonimasu> I am not in real need :)
[12:16:32] <anonimasu> les: did you see the small lathe we have at work?
[12:16:47] <les> no...have a link?
[12:16:58] <anonimasu> http://www.bojn.net/~an0n/AUT_6002.JPG
[12:17:35] <anonimasu> ^_^
[12:18:17] <les> looks stout enough
[12:18:36] <anonimasu> good lathe but a bit worn
[12:18:45] <anonimasu> the only thing missing is a DRO
[12:19:09] <les> I don't have a dro on my lathe
[12:19:22] <les> I do have two tool post grinders though
[12:19:30] <anonimasu> it speeds up turning stuff loads..
[12:19:53] <les> A Themac j42 and j45
[12:19:54] <anonimasu> I have a dro for my y axis on my home lathe..
[12:19:56] <anonimasu> a cheap scale..
[12:20:20] <anonimasu> it makes it easier to sneak up on the last 0.01
[12:20:44] <les> tool post grinders are REALLY slow
[12:20:49] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[12:21:08] <les> mine run at up to 42,000 rpm
[12:21:24] <les> about 400 watt motor
[12:21:41] <les> class 9 bearings
[12:22:28] <anonimasu> nice
[12:25:29] <les> https://maxvps008.maximumasp.com/v008u35bik/metalorwood/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=11174
[12:28:02] <les> there are several on ebay I think
[12:28:21] <anonimasu> probably
[12:30:36] <anonimasu> I was just thinking about machining/building one..
[12:30:51] <anonimasu> being cheap :)
[12:30:56] <les> one needs to carefully cover the lathe bed when using them
[12:31:25] <anonimasu> cant you use a evacuation system for the dust?
[12:31:31] <les> you could make one
[12:31:45] <les> the bearings are several hundred dollers
[12:32:00] <anonimasu> \___/ below.. with a fan..
[12:32:09] <anonimasu> fan and a filter..
[12:32:21] <les> yes you could do that
[12:32:37] <les> But i just tape paper on everything
[12:33:02] <anonimasu> I have a idea that'd work nicely
[12:33:08] <anonimasu> electromagnetism..
[12:33:09] <anonimasu> :)
[12:33:30] <les> heh
[12:33:42] <anonimasu> wouldnt that work great..
[12:33:49] <les> usually the ground item is steel
[12:33:53] <les> so yeah
[12:34:06] <anonimasu> that'd be nice..
[12:34:23] <anonimasu> I need to run for a bit going to clean out the kitchen..
[12:35:33] <les> later
[12:35:42] <anonimasu> laters
[13:53:05] <Phoebe> :)
[13:53:33] <anonimasu> :)
[13:54:02] <anonimasu> my alu arrived now..
[13:54:12] <Phoebe> what are you doing now?
[13:54:18] <Jymmm> typing
[13:54:32] <Jymmm> (DUH)
[13:54:58] <Phoebe> I listening music
[13:55:11] <anonimasu> I am tranlating emc to swedish..
[13:55:12] <anonimasu> :)
[13:55:41] <Phoebe> you come from swedish?
[13:56:04] <Jymmm> anonimasu: thans lte it to Elmer Fudd or Ionic
[13:56:12] <Jymmm> anonimasu: translate it to Elmer Fudd or Ionic
[13:56:21] <Phoebe> oh,my god. who will tranlate emc to chinese?
[13:56:32] <anonimasu> Phoebe: I have no idea :)
[13:56:34] <paul_c> Who's going to do the SoCal translation ?
[13:56:42] <anonimasu> SoCal ?
[13:56:44] <Jymmm> nobody, have you ever seen somethign precision come out of china?
[13:57:15] <Jymmm> paul_c: s/SoCal/Valley Girl/ Fur Sure. Toooooooootally, gage me with a spoon
[13:57:19] <anonimasu> Jymmm: I dont know ionic or elmer/fud
[13:57:23] <paul_c> Jymmm: The Chineese are very skilled in what they do.
[13:57:47] <Jymmm> mass quantities?
[13:58:38] <paul_c> Don't knock their industry based on the exports you see.
[13:58:55] <Jymmm> anonimasu elmer Fudd --->
http://www.google.com/intl/xx-elmer/
[13:59:23] <anonimasu> haha
[14:00:21] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/qemcstatus.cc: File changed. New revision:qemcstatus.hh
[14:00:50] <Jymmm> paul_c: "It's my (bashing) party and I can if I want to, can if I want to..."
[14:01:10] <Phoebe> After few years, you will say chinese is NO.1
[14:01:26] <Jymmm> * Jymmm prefers Thai
[14:01:44] <anonimasu> Jymmm: why cant you bash somwhere else..
[14:02:47] <Jymmm> anonimasu: Hey, I'm just stereotyping is all, not like I really care either way. I'm supporting them by buying from HarborFreight, what else do you want me to do?!?!?!?
[14:04:10] <anonimasu> Jymmm: stop stereotyping?
[14:04:22] <paul_c> visit the country, take a look around....
[14:04:37] <paul_c> get to know the people...
[14:04:51] <Jymmm> Come on folks, I'm just kidding around
[14:05:35] <paul_c> trouble here is you never know who is from where.
[14:06:06] <paul_c> * paul_c could be a 6' 300lb Oriental..
[14:06:34] <SWP_Away> More Elmer Fudd:
http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=xx-elmer
[14:06:54] <Jymmm> If someone is from China and thinks a majority of their exports are "High quality, precision products" I think a reality check is in order.
[14:06:55] <SWP_Away> and of course
http://www.google.com/intl/xx-hacker/
[14:07:48] <SWP_Away> Jymmm: the crap you see in the stores is here strictly because Americans are too cheap to buy quality goods - it's not because that's the only thing the Chinese are capable of making
[14:08:03] <Jymmm> SWP_Away I never said otherwise
[14:08:25] <Jymmm> hense the word "majority" instead of "all"
[14:08:54] <Jymmm> paul_c: and I got 4" on you there =)
[14:09:05] <SWP_Away> but what about the weight? :)
[14:09:15] <Jymmm> 14 on ya
[14:09:38] <SWP_Away> then maybe it's a good thing we never made it to the House of Prime Rib :)
[14:09:48] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[14:09:59] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Nah, atkins baby, atkins
[14:10:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:10:06] <paul_c> * paul_c only said "could be"
[14:10:22] <SWPadnos> they also serve fine mashed potatoes and creamed spinach
[14:10:30] <SWPadnos> (plus Yorkshire pudding)
[14:10:30] <Jymmm> * Jymmm drools
[14:10:45] <Jymmm> never had the pudding before
[14:11:09] <Jymmm> eeeesh this 90 minute to burn a dvd is getting old
[14:11:34] <les> I have some good chinese tools and some bad ones
[14:11:39] <os2finn> hi everyone
[14:11:50] <SWPadnos> hello
[14:12:02] <os2finn> I am working with EMC
[14:12:04] <les> I have been curious why they don't make more things like ballscrews, servos, etc
[14:12:16] <os2finn> looking for some advice
[14:12:18] <Jymmm> * Jymmm notes... if anyone is offended by my china export comments... I apologize. to the rest of ya... you can kiss my ___________! =)
[14:12:28] <SWPadnos> I have some very precise Chinese ground ballscrews
[14:12:29] <les> heh
[14:12:41] <Phoebe> No Hebrew,No black,No minorityk,American(the white) is nothing!
[14:12:44] <SWPadnos> eeewww
[14:13:02] <Jymmm> PhoebeL say that again?
[14:13:14] <paul_c> os2finn: Ask away..
[14:13:44] <os2finn> Does vital products 4channel PCI card work ok with emc?
[14:14:08] <paul_c> I thought the Vital card was 8 axis...
[14:14:54] <les> os2finn: I know of one successful servo installation here
[14:15:08] <os2finn> yes sorry ment vigilant card
[14:15:09] <Jymmm> Phoebe : Ah, I was refering to products, not people.
[14:15:18] <les> oh
[14:15:50] <os2finn> Hmmm it might be good if I tell you a bit about setup we have here
[14:15:57] <paul_c> Last I heard, Vigilant were working on a new card...
[14:16:15] <os2finn> We have two axis setup(xy table basically)
[14:16:34] <os2finn> Motors are servos Mitsubishi and mitsubishi drives
[14:16:52] <os2finn> connected to 10mm lead ball screws
[14:17:31] <os2finn> at this time we are driving them with pulses from parallel port
[14:17:46] <os2finn> with freqmod
[14:18:46] <os2finn> and we but we have problems with axis "wandering"
[14:18:53] <les> do the drives have the capability of accepting an analog input signal?
[14:19:26] <os2finn> yes they can be driven by pulses(4 different kinds)
[14:19:41] <os2finn> and speed(+-10v)
[14:19:48] <os2finn> and torque(+-10v)
[14:19:58] <les> ok good
[14:20:19] <os2finn> only have to change 1 parameter :)
[14:20:32] <paul_c> * paul_c returns from the Vigilant site.
[14:20:52] <les> if you use the +- 10v then emc can close the loop...and will know where the machine is
[14:21:20] <les> normally torque mode is used with PIDFF
[14:21:21] <paul_c> The PCI cards are up for a redesign as some of the components are obsolete..
[14:21:46] <os2finn> Well basically open loop pulse control is ok for us
[14:21:57] <os2finn> if we can get "wandering" to stop
[14:21:58] <les> not if it drifts...
[14:22:20] <os2finn> drifting is random
[14:22:34] <les> hmm
[14:22:38] <les> all axes?
[14:22:39] <os2finn> sometimes it drifts 0,2mm after program run
[14:22:59] <os2finn> all
[14:23:11] <os2finn> sometimes 2mm
[14:23:27] <les> and continues long after program execution?
[14:23:35] <paul_c> Do you have any encoder feedback ?
[14:23:48] <os2finn> no feedback
[14:23:52] <os2finn> freqmod
[14:24:09] <les> well you have feedback to the drives right?
[14:24:21] <os2finn> yes
[14:24:47] <paul_c> * paul_c suspects the answer is in the o/p waveform
[14:25:51] <os2finn> o/p waveform?
[14:25:54] <les> Is drift observed with the drives hooked up and emc NOT running?
[14:26:15] <os2finn> no it doesnt drift when not moved
[14:26:22] <les> ah
[14:26:38] <les> I think paul is right then
[14:27:21] <paul_c> If the drives need the Dir signal to be stable for xxxnSec before Step switches
[14:27:38] <paul_c> that could cause problems...
[14:28:57] <os2finn> so it loses some pulses before dir signal has time to settle?
[14:29:21] <SWPadnos> goes the opposite direction sometimes, because dir hasn't settled
[14:29:29] <paul_c> The drives could see it that way...
[14:29:43] <os2finn> is there any kind of solution for this?
[14:30:08] <paul_c> Need to look at the manufacturer's specs on the input signals
[14:30:44] <les> test that drift errors occur even when commanding very low speed moves
[14:31:21] <les> if not....then it sure sounds like timing
[14:31:58] <paul_c> One more question before we jump to conclusions....
[14:32:28] <paul_c> Does the position readout on EMC also change at the same rate of drift ?
[14:32:49] <os2finn> This is how i tested:
[14:32:58] <os2finn> I do zero return on axis
[14:33:05] <os2finn> its then 0.000
[14:33:30] <os2finn> then I have a program file that drives axis back and forth same time
[14:33:38] <os2finn> and finally to 0.000
[14:33:53] <os2finn> then axis position show 0.000
[14:34:07] <os2finn> but axis real position has changed
[14:34:19] <paul_c> That is timing.
[14:34:25] <les> yup
[14:34:46] <paul_c> Can the drives accept quadrature input instead of step/dir ?
[14:34:59] <os2finn> sec I get the manual
[14:36:06] <os2finn> There is Pulse train + sign
[14:36:23] <os2finn> and FW pulse train & Rev pulse train
[14:36:44] <os2finn> and finally a-phase & b-phase pulse train
[14:36:54] <paul_c> that's the one
[14:37:13] <os2finn> and all these options in positive or negative logic
[14:37:37] <paul_c> Next question - Did you compile EMC from source, or use one of the CDs ?
[14:37:47] <os2finn> BDI Live
[14:37:51] <os2finn> precompiled
[14:38:59] <paul_c> OK... In the ini file, the section [EMCMOT]
[14:39:11] <paul_c> add the following line....
[14:39:21] <paul_c> STEPPING_TYPE = 2
[14:39:55] <paul_c> That should give you A & B signals on the Step & Dir output pins.
[14:40:11] <os2finn> and configure the drive accordingly
[14:40:17] <paul_c> yes.
[14:40:22] <os2finn> ok ill try
[14:40:26] <os2finn> just a sec
[14:42:08] <anonimasu> iab
[14:47:00] <os2finn> hmmm... it stops moving at all. If I set feed override to very small like 1 or 2
[14:47:15] <os2finn> then it moves back and forth at same positin
[14:48:57] <paul_c> you probably need a little bit of DEADBAND in the axis config
[14:49:53] <os2finn> Deadband = 0.04
[14:51:52] <paul_c> Is it a slow "move back and forth" or a rapid shake ?
[14:52:00] <os2finn> slow
[14:52:36] <Jymmm> Excuse my ignorance, but can this driver also control bipolar steppers if ever needed?
http://www.hobbycnc.com/driverboards/4aupc/4aupc.htm
[14:52:50] <os2finn> input scale 25,6
[14:53:30] <paul_c> Jymmm: Only if they are 6 or 8 wire.
[14:54:20] <os2finn> BTW parallel port is not directly connected to servo drive
[14:54:28] <os2finn> optocouplers between
[14:54:45] <paul_c> shouldn't make any difference..
[14:55:09] <paul_c> It might help to see your ini file.
[14:55:23] <os2finn> what values you want ?
[14:56:04] <os2finn> P = 300
[14:56:11] <os2finn> deadband = 0,4
[14:56:16] <os2finn> scales 25,6
[14:56:21] <os2finn> all other zeroes
[14:57:07] <paul_c> UNITS =
[14:57:13] <paul_c> INPUT_SCALE =
[14:57:14] <os2finn> 1.0
[14:57:18] <paul_c> OUTPUT_SCALE
[14:57:20] <os2finn> units 1.0
[14:57:29] <os2finn> look up....
[14:57:37] <Jymmm> paul_c: ok, so I'm only limited then by 4 wire steppers?
[14:57:57] <narnia> paul_c, hello, how goes it?
[14:58:03] <jepler> that's correct; 4-wire steppers can't be run on a unipolar board
[14:58:25] <narnia> paul_c, is the emc gui still mainly tk?
[14:58:37] <Jymmm> any pro/con's to using a unipolar driver?
[14:59:46] <jepler> for the same motor, assuming the driver board has a nice high voltage and enough current available, a bipolar configuration will get more torque and step speed than a unipolar configuration.
[14:59:53] <paul_c> narnia: You have tkemc, xemc (in Gtk), axis (in python), and some work in hand for Qt
[15:00:10] <jepler> surely xemc is athena, not gtk
[15:00:30] <paul_c> Thought it was gtk....
[15:00:35] <paul_c> I may be wrong.
[15:00:50] <anonimasu> hm..
[15:01:09] <paul_c> os2finn: is that 256 steps per mm, or 25.6 ?
[15:01:20] <os2finn> 25,6
[15:01:47] <os2finn> 256 is full rotation and 10mm lead screw
[15:02:29] <os2finn> basically servo encoder gives 131072 pulses/rev
[15:02:43] <os2finn> and I have 512 in drives electrical gearbox
[15:02:52] <os2finn> 131072 / 512 = 256
[15:03:20] <paul_c> can you increase the steps per mm ?
[15:03:28] <paul_c> (or rev)
[15:03:48] <os2finn> yes but then I cant get so much rpm
[15:04:17] <os2finn> because optocouplers are limited to 3kHz
[15:05:37] <os2finn> what value would you suggest?
[15:06:26] <paul_c> can you get 100 steps per mm (or a little higher) ?
[15:08:53] <os2finn> would 102.4 do?
[15:09:20] <paul_c> yes.
[15:09:33] <os2finn> can do that
[15:17:08] <anonimasu> * anonimasu stretches
[15:22:30] <os2finn> still no movement
[15:22:53] <os2finn> with phase stepping with sign + train yes
[15:25:03] <os2finn> But now I really have to go. See you tomorrow or some other day.
[15:25:24] <paul_c> OK... Sounds like stepping_type 2 still needs some work
[15:25:57] <os2finn> BTW what is the problem if scale is too low(below 100)?
[15:26:48] <paul_c> it causes problems in the low level motion when scales approach 10 or less.
[15:27:42] <os2finn> ok tomorrow Ill try using default ini file that came with BDI
[15:27:51] <os2finn> and adjust servos accordingly
[15:29:30] <os2finn> see if that helps
[15:30:51] <Jymmm> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20050324/od_nm/odd_finger_dc
[15:32:09] <SWPadnos> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[15:32:34] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I live in San Jose, which is where the Wendys was located.
[15:32:45] <SWPadnos> even worse
[15:32:57] <SWPadnos> that's why I only eat sushi when on the west coast :)
[15:33:08] <SWPadnos> (and prime rib)
[15:33:35] <Jymmm> The thing I don't get is: If someone lost the finger, didn't they bother to look for it? And if they did look for it and couldn't find it, why did they stop looking until they found it?
[15:33:57] <paul_c> finger lickin' good ?
[15:34:07] <Jymmm> lol
[15:35:48] <Jymmm> On a parallel port, it's step/dir per axis (up to four) with 4 remaing I/O for home switch, correct?
[15:35:57] <Jymmm> es
[15:37:17] <paul_c> you can go to six axis on a parport
[15:37:46] <Jymmm> s/home/axis a and b/ ?
[15:38:07] <paul_c> sure.
[15:38:25] <Jymmm> ok, then how are ppl using limit switches for each axis (two per), a multiplexer?
[15:38:48] <paul_c> common to a single input pin
[15:39:12] <Jymmm> like wired in series?
[15:39:25] <paul_c> parallel is better
[15:39:51] <Jymmm> ok say parallel, dont you need to know which axis limit has been reached?
[15:39:52] <anonimasu> the multiplexer would add some delay..
[15:40:19] <paul_c> the software knows which axis has moved...
[15:40:31] <Jymmm> say diagnolly
[15:40:40] <anonimasu> Jymmm: you
[15:40:42] <anonimasu> err
[15:40:51] <SWPadnos> it's ideal to know which axis coraked, but not strictly necessary (since you'd stop motion for any limit anyway)
[15:40:53] <anonimasu> tab trouble ^_^
[15:40:55] <SWPadnos> croaked
[15:41:32] <Jymmm> and parallel is TTL (+-5vdc) ?
[15:41:42] <anonimasu> yes
[15:41:59] <SWPadnos> +5 or 0, not +/-5
[15:42:16] <Jymmm> what if I hooked a resister in line with each switch... 1k, 2k, 4k, 8k etc.
[15:42:46] <SWPadnos> it's not analog input - some switches would work, others wouldn't
[15:43:12] <SWPadnos> (depending on the R values)
[15:43:37] <Jymmm> oh it's strictly 0 or 5, not 0 to 5 ?
[15:43:46] <anonimasu> yep
[15:43:47] <anonimasu> 1/0
[15:43:47] <SWPadnos> close enough :)
[15:43:54] <Jymmm> damn
[15:43:57] <anonimasu> a bit..
[15:44:03] <anonimasu> short on inputs?
[15:44:20] <Jymmm> anonimasu: just overthinking again is all =)
[15:44:33] <SWPadnos> I don't remember the exact voltages, but you have to go above a value (like 3.5V) to guarantee a 1, and below some other value (like 1.5V) to guarantee a 0
[15:44:39] <anonimasu> you could multiplex it.. actually with a chip and a clock from software to read the different switches..
[15:44:55] <SWPadnos> except that you'd be using another bit for that
[15:44:59] <anonimasu> yeah..
[15:45:03] <anonimasu> one out and one in..
[15:45:05] <SWPadnos> or two
[15:45:15] <anonimasu> one for clock out and another one for data in..
[15:45:22] <Jymmm> I was just thinking of using the resister to get up to 255 values is all.
[15:45:23] <SWPadnos> plus extra circuitry on the outside
[15:45:26] <anonimasu> but then you could read as many switches you'd like..
[15:45:40] <SWPadnos> it's easier (and probably less expensive) to add a second parallel port
[15:45:48] <Jymmm> heh, yeah
[15:46:00] <Jymmm> but most sw doesn't support this, does it?
[15:46:04] <SWPadnos> http://www.byterunner.com
[15:46:29] <SWPadnos> emc supports two ports for BridgeportIO - don't know about how you configure the step outputs
[15:47:36] <Jymmm> emc supports servo feedback doesn't it?
[15:47:44] <anonimasu> yes
[15:47:59] <Jymmm> I suspec then one would have to get into that code
[15:48:16] <anonimasu> what code?
[15:48:19] <Jymmm> and play around.
[15:48:36] <anonimasu> it's with a vital card or with a STG card..
[15:48:38] <anonimasu> :)
[15:48:54] <Jymmm> the feedbakc stuff... same principal as what I was dscribing with the resistors.
[15:49:14] <SWPadnos> depends on the type of feedback
[15:49:16] <Jymmm> (plus a A/D in there too)
[15:49:37] <anonimasu> yep
[15:49:44] <Jymmm> SLA7062M
[15:49:50] <Jymmm> doh wrong window
[15:51:07] <Jymmm> oh man, alredy at 100 minutes buring this DVD, adn another 30 to go.
[15:51:13] <SWPadnos> yeah - well same to you
[15:51:32] <Jymmm> SWPadnos lol, say what?
[15:51:38] <SWPadnos> MS3106A-24-7P - so there!
[15:51:49] <Jymmm> heh
[15:52:03] <SWPadnos> (that's an expennsive motor connector :) )
[15:52:04] <Jymmm> it's what they use in the HobbyCNC driver boards
[15:52:17] <les> this looks good...think I will buy one
[15:52:23] <SWPadnos> great
[15:52:25] <SWPadnos> what
[15:52:26] <les> http://www.shumatech.com/products/dro-350/index.htm
[15:52:36] <SWPadnos> Oh yeah - those are cool.
[15:53:00] <les> I just discovered how cheap those chinese scales are
[15:53:23] <SWPadnos> yeah - you can get kits on eBay for like $300
[15:53:30] <SWPadnos> (scale sets, that is)
[15:53:32] <les> ought to put them on several machines
[15:53:38] <anonimasu> they are pretty good..
[15:53:46] <anonimasu> that's one like I have..
[15:53:55] <anonimasu> but well a glass scale *dreams*
[15:54:04] <les> yeah
[15:54:09] <SWPadnos> they also have wuadrature -> SPI encoders, so you can use these with the encoders on your motor
[15:54:11] <les> these are capacitive
[15:54:18] <SWPadnos> quadrature
[15:54:27] <SWPadnos> (I'm back in Elmer Fudd land)
[15:54:34] <les> heh
[15:54:38] <Jymmm> lol
[15:58:56] <SWPadnos> I had thought about getting one of these to make machining my CNC conversion parts easier
[15:59:44] <SWPadnos> I'd like an extra digit though
[16:00:59] <les> I am reading up on the dro-350 construction
[16:01:13] <les> wish he just sold a bag-o-parts
[16:01:25] <SWPadnos> He did - did he stop?
[16:01:41] <les> this is all I see...
[16:01:50] <les> http://www.shumatech.com/products/dro-350/bom.htm
[16:01:59] <SWPadnos> actually - he doesn't have the board in stock either
[16:02:11] <les> oh?
[16:02:20] <SWPadnos> nope - ETA March 30
[16:02:27] <SWPadnos> there's a waiting list
[16:02:29] <les> shoot I am ready to order it
[16:03:34] <les> subscribing to the list now
[16:03:37] <SWPadnos> he does have the "submit to DigiKey" and "Submit to Mouser" buttons.
[16:03:51] <Jymmm> how many is the pcb?
[16:03:54] <Jymmm> much
[16:03:58] <SWPadnos> $17
[16:04:05] <Jymmm> 3 axis?
[16:04:07] <SWPadnos> sorry - $17.95
[16:04:09] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:04:12] <Jymmm> cool
[16:04:18] <SWPadnos> $111.18 total cost
[16:04:32] <SWPadnos> (including board, parts, case, etc.)
[16:05:55] <les> Im sold.
[16:06:19] <SWPadnos> I wonder if he's updated the prices recently...
[16:06:50] <les> heck I was about to buy expensive Mitutoyo stuff
[16:06:58] <les> this is almost free
[16:08:04] <SWPadnos> yep - they're pretty accurate.
[16:08:21] <SWPadnos> the AC adapter and a couple of the connectors are out of stock at Mouser
[16:10:11] <SWPadnos> you'll need a PIC programmer
[16:11:57] <les> I read that it just needs serial to pc now
[16:12:38] <les> wow look at these prices
[16:12:51] <les> http://f6.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/AORCQlllVudeg5ylbFcNpXoR-9oA1d4CFukJnyNiY0s_ll9CxjeCoJv1NB7Ejf_PR6Lj1vOYGjP79WD7vBYW1UAPMgKrnPKCPDPwfZM/JENIX-5L_price_list.pdf
[16:13:16] <les> this is great
[17:02:30] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[17:02:34] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/qemcstatus.cc: File changed. New revision:qemcstatus.hh
[17:05:18] <anonimasu> ,:)
[17:42:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: PIC prog for what?
[17:43:09] <SWPadnos> to download the DRO code into the PIC chip
[17:43:18] <les> the dro-350
[17:43:25] <les> it has one on the board
[17:43:39] <Jymmm> ah
[17:43:54] <Jymmm> I'm surprised he does sell em pre-programmed
[17:43:59] <Jymmm> doens't
[17:44:05] <les> yeah
[17:44:27] <les> I wonder if the tool change stuff on emc works
[17:44:37] <Jymmm> Oh PIC, no ISP
[17:44:58] <les> here is a good candidate...
[17:45:00] <les> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58253&item=7503104352&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[17:45:16] <les> auto tool changer (broken)
[17:45:56] <les> too far away for me
[17:47:43] <SWPadnos> bigger than your apartment
[17:48:23] <les> I guess the old uncovered ones cannot be used in an industrial envitonment
[17:48:28] <Jymmm> Heh, It' sfit in the living room =)
[17:48:35] <Jymmm> Heh, It fit in the living room =)
[17:48:39] <les> due to insurance undrwriting?
[17:48:43] <SWPadnos> height could be a problem (door-wise) :)
[17:49:07] <Jymmm> height wise, width wise, etc
[17:49:15] <Jymmm> staircase wise
[17:49:36] <les> my shop is 9 feet at the door
[17:49:42] <les> just barely fit
[17:51:21] <Jymmm> 2hrs, 304 minutes to burn this dvd
[17:51:28] <Jymmm> 34min
[17:51:38] <les> wow
[17:52:24] <les> When a Txx command is sent what signal is activated in emc
[17:52:29] <Jymmm> I verified the data too
[17:52:37] <les> something that can go to the tool change plc
[17:53:20] <Jymmm> One more DVD to create and burn.
[17:53:31] <SWPadnos> this time select "4x"
[17:53:51] <Jymmm> lol... the DVD in my laptop only does 2x
[17:54:30] <Jymmm> I don't mind either, I'd rather the data be written correctly than to ifnd out later on Uh oh.
[17:55:38] <Jymmm> the dvd burner in my desktop is 4x, that's not too shabby.
[17:56:50] <Jymmm> I dont mean to be a smartass, but whats all the hype about retrofitting with DRO?
[17:57:48] <les> ?
[17:57:53] <SWPadnos> If it's pretty cheap, then it can be a big help in making parts for the eventual CNC :)
[17:58:03] <les> just for manual machines not cnc
[17:58:25] <les> manual machines are still useful
[17:58:37] <SWPadnos> expecially for making CNC parts :)
[17:58:45] <les> I was searching for a deal on mitutoyo dros
[17:58:47] <Jymmm> I understand it's for manual machines, but whats the big deal? Almost sounds like "digital clock" in a car
[17:58:54] <les> and found the chinese scales
[17:59:03] <les> did not know about them
[17:59:08] <SWPadnos> nope - you can move directly to a location and start milling
[17:59:20] <SWPadnos> much easier than counting turns on a dial
[17:59:28] <les> yup
[17:59:48] <les> I do not have dros on the mill, grinder, or lathe
[17:59:55] <les> I will now though!
[18:00:12] <Jymmm> les you find these cheap chinese sclaes yet?
[18:00:22] <les> yeah
[18:00:38] <les> all over ebay
[18:00:42] <Jymmm> url?
[18:00:49] <les> just a sec
[18:00:52] <SWPadnos> http://www.ebay.com/
[18:01:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos dont make me go AOL on your butt!
[18:01:34] <SWPadnos> Army Of Losers?
[18:02:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yep, will redirect all Tech support calls from AOL to yout cellphone!
[18:02:51] <les> http://www.shumatech.com/support/chinese_scales.htm
[18:02:56] <les> start here
[18:03:28] <Jymmm> I'm already there
[18:03:49] <Jymmm> went to ebay, and just saw bridgeport stuff
[18:06:21] <les> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11805&item=7503235788&rd=1
[18:06:27] <les> thiat is typical
[18:06:53] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[18:07:10] <Jymmm> but nobody has the cables, huh?
[18:07:27] <Jymmm> (it's just a PCB edge connector)
[18:07:53] <les> yeah...I joined the shamatech yahoo group...you can get all that stuff now
[18:08:34] <Jymmm> you know what I think ppl ae goin DRO?
[18:08:37] <anonimasu> :)
[18:09:11] <les> heh cause you can make stuff about twice as fast?
[18:09:26] <anonimasu> yeah..
[18:09:31] <Jymmm> Ya master machists are old farts now and just can't read the damn dial anymore... just like BIG PRINT books and stuff! =)
[18:09:33] <anonimasu> even faster then that..
[18:09:52] <les> heh
[18:10:01] <les> It's true
[18:10:02] <anonimasu> Jymmm: looking for the last 0.025 cut can be a hassle..
[18:10:11] <anonimasu> you want to cut the material off there not rub it..
[18:10:15] <anonimasu> :)
[18:10:22] <anonimasu> hence the usefulness of a dro..
[18:10:22] <Jymmm> anonimasu eh bullshit... ya blind old coot!
[18:10:28] <anonimasu> Jymmm: lol
[18:11:02] <les> I literally have to use reading glasses to see dial graduations
[18:11:51] <Jymmm> I just got my DMV physical... my left eye is getting worse w/o glasses
[18:12:27] <les> oh my lenses correct enough...for a flight medical
[18:12:46] <Jymmm> that works
[18:12:57] <les> Just ZERO accomodation
[18:13:00] <les> none
[18:13:14] <les> I now have fixed focus eyes
[18:15:15] <anonimasu> :)
[18:15:36] <Jymmm> Man this is bugging me, I wish I had half a clue in design
[18:15:44] <anonimasu> designing what?
[18:16:28] <Jymmm> anonimasu bearing for rail
[18:17:04] <anonimasu> well, my tip would be to buy rails :)
[18:17:25] <anonimasu> they arent that expensive if you dont absolutely need thk or skf
[18:18:01] <Jymmm> anonimasu: For the moment, lets just not go there and assume that what I want has to be made =)
[18:18:34] <les> heh
[18:18:38] <anonimasu> lol
[18:19:05] <les> ok I now pronounce you a linear rail designer
[18:19:11] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[18:19:30] <les> your salary will be about $1 per hour
[18:19:47] <anonimasu> Jymmm: I was thinking price/specs.. that's all
[18:20:12] <anonimasu> what do you want?
[18:20:43] <anonimasu> cheap rails/good rails/special ones?
[18:21:09] <anonimasu> how stiff do you need them to be?
[18:21:34] <anonimasu> what precision do you need, and how long are you prepared to hand scrape to acheieve it?
[18:21:41] <les> heh
[18:21:50] <Jymmm> 0.0000000000000000000000000" and none.
[18:21:55] <anonimasu> * anonimasu grins
[18:22:10] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sends Jymmm a block of alu and a file
[18:22:28] <les> that's all you need really
[18:22:36] <Jymmm> anonimasu WHAT, no file handle?! WTH
[18:22:47] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:22:56] <les> you have to make it
[18:22:58] <anonimasu> Jymmm: nope.. :)
[18:23:00] <Jymmm> lol
[18:23:12] <Jymmm> Ok, here's what I came up with....
[18:24:08] <anonimasu> * anonimasu pokes Jymmm
[18:24:18] <Jymmm> use 3 skatbearing 120 degrees apart from each other, and mill a block to fit them so that
[18:25:34] <Jymmm> that shaft of each are adjustable using setscrews. What I can't figure out is the railing itself. You goes said alu shapes are too soft, and it be a bitch to drill holes in SS rod so there is no deflection.
[18:26:23] <SWPadnos> You could use angle iron
[18:26:35] <SWPadnos> you'd have to spend some time getting the surface flat though
[18:26:38] <Jymmm> but since they are 120 deg, I have room to have a solid mount rail.
[18:26:57] <Jymmm> even square tubing on an angle.
[18:26:59] <SWPadnos> use it like dolly track - place the vertex up, and put a bearing on either side
[18:27:12] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: that's what I'd do also
[18:27:26] <Jymmm> dolly track?
[18:27:32] <anonimasu> ^
[18:27:32] <SWPadnos> like in the movie industry
[18:27:39] <SWPadnos> right ^
[18:27:42] <anonimasu> \ / <- bearings on sides
[18:27:44] <Jymmm> I beam looking stuff?
[18:27:55] <SWPadnos> no - 90 degree angle
[18:28:02] <SWPadnos> half a square
[18:29:02] <Jymmm> Ah, but that wont work for Y or Z axis, will it?
[18:29:16] <anonimasu> on a lathe?
[18:29:19] <SWPadnos> works for X and Y, but not Z
[18:29:23] <anonimasu> yeah..
[18:29:29] <les> round rod would be easier
[18:29:38] <anonimasu> I'd buy the rails and build my own carridges..
[18:29:46] <les> drilling holes is not so hard
[18:29:50] <anonimasu> rails are very cheap..
[18:29:59] <anonimasu> but the carridges costs around 130$
[18:30:04] <anonimasu> or mor..
[18:30:09] <Jymmm> anonimasu divide your cheap by ten and you got my cheap
[18:30:29] <Jymmm> anonimasu divide les' cheap by 100 and you got my cheap
[18:30:43] <Jymmm> s/100/1000/ =)
[18:30:52] <anonimasu> Jymmm: well precision is what costs you..
[18:31:13] <Jymmm> anonimasu it's a cnc router
[18:31:17] <anonimasu> Jymmm: I take time into account..
[18:31:32] <les> let's see what junk or scrap item might work
[18:31:59] <anonimasu> you could buy ground rod..
[18:32:14] <Jymmm> anonimasu can that be drilled?
[18:32:18] <anonimasu> not really
[18:32:30] <Jymmm> spot welded?
[18:32:33] <les> it's cheap but I suspect not JYmmmcheap
[18:32:33] <anonimasu> I drilled some at tuesday at work..
[18:32:36] <Jymmm> (not that I have a welder)
[18:32:38] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:32:44] <anonimasu> you cant weld it either since it'll wrap..
[18:32:54] <anonimasu> wrap/bend/deform..
[18:32:57] <Jymmm> les I can do drill rod =)
[18:33:08] <les> I drill casehardend rod all the time
[18:33:10] <SWPadnos> Jymmm: what's your budget for X and Y rails?
[18:33:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos $50/each
[18:33:25] <Jymmm> axis
[18:33:34] <les> ulp
[18:33:45] <SWPadnos> Ok - and you want 2' for one and 4' for the other (give or take)
[18:33:48] <Jymmm> 12' of 1/2 W0 is $80
[18:34:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: there abouts
[18:34:28] <les> i'll grab the catalog
[18:34:30] <SWPadnos> and you want to be able to support a 30 pound gantry on X
[18:35:00] <SWPadnos> I'd suggest making the gantry move on the short axis, and have the head move the long way across the gantry
[18:35:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yes, but now I dont have to "susped" the rail, it can be mouned to the frame
[18:35:10] <Jymmm> suspend
[18:35:15] <anonimasu> I'd go with alu for the rail
[18:35:27] <Jymmm> what about 1/2" steel tubing
[18:35:34] <Jymmm> or even 1"
[18:35:43] <anonimasu> and then just steel contact surfaces for the bearings..
[18:35:44] <Jymmm> sqaure tubing
[18:35:48] <SWPadnos> First, you probably should have separate support rails and precision surfaces
[18:36:05] <SWPadnos> though you probably can't afford that :)
[18:36:11] <anonimasu> Jymmm:
[18:36:18] <anonimasu> err far from straight/flat
[18:36:56] <Jymmm> anonimasu Yeah, that why I was thinking 1/2" drillrod and just support it in the middle
[18:37:51] <les> 4140 prehard 1"x36" $16.24
[18:38:11] <Jymmm> les alum?
[18:38:13] <les> not ground though
[18:38:40] <Jymmm> can drillrod be milled - like cut a groove in it?
[18:38:52] <anonimasu> I'll be back in 15 minutes
[18:38:57] <anonimasu> got to run a errand
[18:39:07] <Jymmm> anonimasu dont forget the TP
[18:40:40] <les> actually W0 would come spheroidized annealed
[18:40:43] <les> way soft
[18:40:50] <Jymmm> too soft?
[18:40:56] <les> too soft for a rail witout hardening
[18:41:27] <les> it is soft enough to easily cut with a hacksaw
[18:41:40] <Jymmm> oh, that is soft
[18:43:38] <Jymmm> ok 1/2" O1 @ 12' == $19.98
[18:43:58] <les> 01 is just as soft
[18:44:12] <Jymmm> A2?
[18:44:21] <les> heh still soft
[18:44:26] <les> you need prehard
[18:44:29] <Jymmm> oh stop it now!
[18:44:34] <les> haha
[18:44:43] <les> it's true though
[18:44:54] <A-L-P-H-A> I walked into les and Jymmm discussing softness and hardness..
[18:44:57] <Jymmm> true for what a 10 ton mill?
[18:45:05] <A-L-P-H-A> hi K`zan
[18:45:16] <les> ha
[18:45:31] <K`zan> G'day A-L-P-H-A
[18:45:39] <les> A2 costs too much for you
[18:45:51] <les> O1 would be best
[18:45:52] <A-L-P-H-A> O1 costs alot as well
[18:46:10] <les> would have to take it and have it vacuum hardened
[18:46:23] <A-L-P-H-A> I think it was 3 for $75CDN
[18:46:23] <SWPadnos> Jymmm: the bearings are hard bronze, if the rails are softer, you'll have to replace them, but the bearings will last forever
[18:46:37] <SWPadnos> which is easier / less expensive to replace?
[18:46:40] <Jymmm> OK LES!!! 1/2" A2 @ 12' == $49.04
[18:46:53] <les> O1 is about 30% more than W
[18:47:18] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, acetyl bushings!
[18:47:37] <Jymmm> why acetyl over UHMW ?
[18:47:42] <A-L-P-H-A> buy some acetyl, drill undersized, ream.
[18:47:56] <A-L-P-H-A> acetyl has less thermal expansion.
[18:47:57] <les> acetal machines very nicely
[18:48:17] <SWPadnos> I think acetal acts like it's lubricated, whereas UHMW doesn't (as well)
[18:48:20] <A-L-P-H-A> les, yes. VERY nice.
[18:48:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos UHMW lubes
[18:48:37] <SWPadnos> well - I could be wrong :)
[18:48:48] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, thy're both used as bushing materials...
[18:48:51] <les> I use treated glue on teflon sheets
[18:49:00] <SWPadnos> glue != lube
[18:49:14] <Jymmm> * Jymmm no like teflon
[18:49:14] <les> well on the back side
[18:49:36] <les> Jymmm no like teflon price
[18:49:46] <Jymmm> les not price, toxicity
[18:50:26] <les> don't like phosgene?
[18:50:30] <A-L-P-H-A> virgin teflon is expensive.
[18:50:54] <Jymmm> and UHWM has ZERO toxicity... even when burned
[18:51:25] <Jymmm> also is USDA/FDA approved
[18:51:26] <les> you need some cheap g&p prehard or casehard
[18:51:38] <les> thompson too much $$for you
[18:52:13] <Jymmm> probably =)
[18:53:14] <Jymmm> I'd even try the poly bearing, but I still can't come up with a support for the railing. Can W1 be slotted ro drilled?
[18:53:22] <Jymmm> s/ro/or/
[18:55:03] <A-L-P-H-A_laptop> why do we run through this day after day... Jymmm, you know what you need, just do it. <repeat>
[18:55:09] <A-L-P-H-A_laptop> stupid router reset on me.
[18:58:25] <A-L-P-H-A_laptop> A-L-P-H-A_laptop is now known as A-L-P-HA2
[19:00:06] <A-L-P-HA2> A-L-P-HA2 is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[19:01:44] <robin_sz> meep!
[19:02:02] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A I'm getting closer each day =) Already fiured out how to turn the acme rod down too
[19:02:10] <Jymmm> Hola robin_sz!
[19:02:15] <robin_sz> yo
[19:02:17] <Jymmm> w/o a lathe
[19:02:41] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, and how sucessful is that? are you going to be able to keep all you fingers as well?
[19:02:49] <A-L-P-H-A> hi robin_sz
[19:02:56] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Yep =)
[19:02:57] <robin_sz> hi
[19:03:09] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, sure. k.
[19:03:30] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, you'll get a ton of help from CCED... search the messages.
[19:03:36] <robin_sz> today, I had fun building the gui for g2002 on linux, with doze as the target, and it ran and worked and everyting
[19:03:41] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Hey like I said... I've done the impossibel with the imporbably for so long
[19:03:55] <Jymmm> robin_sz cool bean!
[19:04:00] <Jymmm> beans!
[19:04:19] <robin_sz> already added quite a few mods for plasma
[19:04:38] <Jymmm> robin_sz is that what you use most... plasma?
[19:04:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm hurting today... my gluts are hurting pretty bad from the squats I was doing.
[19:04:55] <robin_sz> I had the squats once ...
[19:05:03] <robin_sz> but Diocalm sorted it out
[19:05:08] <Jymmm> lol
[19:05:17] <Jymmm> sqauts, not squirts!
[19:05:23] <robin_sz> oh ;)
[19:05:47] <robin_sz> sqats nto squits
[19:05:54] <Jymmm> ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww lol
[19:06:06] <robin_sz> ach, cant sleep, clowns will eat me.
[19:06:23] <Jymmm> damn clowns from hell
[19:06:34] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz... with what coloured noses?
[19:09:57] <robin_sz> http://www.alicecoopershow.co.uk/lyrics/brutalplanet/cant_sleep_clowns_will_eat_me.htm
[19:10:48] <A-L-P-H-A> alice cooper?
[19:10:53] <A-L-P-H-A> when was he popular?
[19:10:58] <A-L-P-H-A> was it before my time?
[19:14:01] <robin_sz> was?
[19:14:02] <robin_sz> is!
[19:14:19] <SWPadnos> definitely was
[19:14:54] <robin_sz> actually, I thnk im running an alice cooper track as the hold music on a couple of voip systems :)
[19:15:10] <SWPadnos> heh - that'll teach people to call tech support :)
[19:15:52] <robin_sz> yeah, I hope :)
[19:19:39] <les> I cannot find any really cheap hardened shafting for jymmm
[19:21:06] <Jymmm> les : I appreciate it, but I might just try W1 or see what SS will run me.
[19:22:10] <les> well it is as soft as goo...won't last long
[19:22:23] <Jymmm> M43 ok ?
[19:22:32] <les> heh
[19:22:46] <Jymmm> or is that softer yet?
[19:23:04] <les> annealed it is quite soft
[19:23:16] <Jymmm> Dynacut AISI/SAE type M-43 steel hardened to 66 - 68 Rc for super high hardness. Heat treated and precision centerless ground rod for applications ranging from punches to special cutters to mandrels and more.
[19:23:17] <les> but is usually furnished hardened
[19:23:34] <les> I use M43 a good bit
[19:23:46] <les> 10% cobalt
[19:23:49] <A-L-P-H-A> isn't m43 used in cutting tools?
[19:24:03] <A-L-P-H-A> better than HSS? less than cobalt micrograin.
[19:24:04] <les> yes I use it for formed tools on the lathe
[19:24:12] <Jymmm> 1/2" M43 HGR @ 12' == $37.66
[19:24:41] <les> seems too cheap
[19:25:10] <Jymmm> Length: +.125 -.000
[19:26:08] <les> That can't be right
[19:26:08] <Jymmm> free shipping (just pay $6 pkg fee)
[19:26:12] <les> not 12 feet
[19:26:17] <les> 12 inches maybe
[19:26:45] <les> what is the link to that?
[19:26:58] <Jymmm> ah your right.... they change units on me =)
[19:27:32] <les> cobalt is over $100/lb
[19:27:36] <Jymmm> http://www.toolanddie.com/
[19:27:44] <pemmet> * pemmet wonders if anyone here live in the Worcester Massichusets Area by any chance?
[19:28:10] <Jymmm> dovetail shave tool blank
[19:28:18] <A-L-P-H-A> no, but I do have some worcestershire sauce in the kitchen.
[19:28:26] <SWPadnos> I'm only 3-4 hours away
[19:28:41] <robin_sz> pemmet: I live in worcestershire ...... UK ;)
[19:28:41] <Jymmm> I have a LOT of worchester sauce.... gallon bottle of it!
[19:28:49] <robin_sz> the "real" worcestershire :)
[19:30:27] <pemmet> heh
[19:30:31] <pemmet> the origional
[19:30:41] <pemmet> swpandos?
[19:30:42] <pemmet> really?
[19:30:52] <pemmet> wow
[19:30:56] <pemmet> that's incredibly...
[19:30:59] <pemmet> ...inconvenient
[19:31:26] <pemmet> :P
[19:31:35] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[19:31:35] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[19:32:17] <SWPadnos> heh - yep
[19:32:24] <SWPadnos> I'm in upper Vermont
[19:32:34] <pemmet> ahh
[19:33:17] <pemmet> yea.. i was hoping on the off chance that someone was near by, i could get them to come visit me at my school, to help me with my setup...
[19:33:31] <SWPadnos> well - I'm not the guy for that anyway :)
[19:33:32] <pemmet> take 'em to lunch.. buy 'em a case of beer, whatever..
[19:33:35] <pemmet> heh
[19:33:36] <pemmet> no worries
[19:33:51] <pemmet> i wouldn't want you to spend half a day behind the wheel just to help me out
[19:33:52] <A-L-P-H-A> ask on the EMC list.
[19:33:56] <pemmet> emclist?
[19:34:01] <A-L-P-H-A> there's only 22 people here...
[19:34:05] <A-L-P-H-A> hundreds on the list.
[19:34:06] <pemmet> that's true
[19:34:09] <pemmet> where is this list?
[19:34:13] <pemmet> linuxcnc.org?
[19:34:15] <A-L-P-H-A> pemmet, oh you're not on the A list... I'm sorry
[19:34:20] <pemmet> :(
[19:34:33] <pemmet> i dont know why i would be..
[19:34:34] <A-L-P-H-A> sourceforge mailing list.
[19:34:38] <pemmet> i didn't know there was a list
[19:34:41] <pemmet> :/
[19:35:05] <SWPadnos> I'm headed for Boston next weekend, but it's still a bit of a drive from there
[19:35:19] <pemmet> yea.. probably not worth it...
[19:35:26] <pemmet> especialy if you're already doing tons of traveling
[19:35:33] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, bench grinder, if you're buying at rodneys! :)
[19:35:43] <SWPadnos> how big?
[19:35:53] <SWPadnos> and what brand?
[19:35:59] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got a 6" and 8", 6"... delta.
[19:36:02] <A-L-P-H-A> :D hehe
[19:36:11] <SWPadnos> nope - these are $30 at Home Depot
[19:36:20] <SWPadnos> (like one oyster at Rodney's)
[19:36:20] <A-L-P-H-A> heh.
[19:36:37] <A-L-P-H-A> no... like maybe 6 or 7
[19:36:46] <SWPadnos> yeah - the small sampler
[19:36:59] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah. :(
[19:39:09] <A-L-P-H-A> bill still ended up being $50/person. heavy on the wallet.
[19:42:20] <Jymmm> les you still here?
[19:43:28] <Jymmm> les : I just called that place on the phone. VERY personable. They are mostly tool and dies parts is what they sell. Even said they'll cut 12' drillrod into 1/3's for shipping purpose at N/C.
[19:44:33] <Jymmm> les: I asked them if these were 2nd's or one-offs and he said no.
[19:45:12] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/display.cc: File changed. New revision:qemcstatus.cc
[19:51:54] <pemmet> cool... i signed up for the list, and am just gonna post my request for help there
[19:52:07] <les> I'm here
[19:52:36] <pemmet> do you live in or around worcester MA?
[19:52:53] <les> cheapest I found was solid casehardened shaft
[19:53:18] <les> 1"x24=$30.93
[19:53:24] <SWPadnos> pemmet: no, he doesn't :)
[19:53:25] <les> you drill holes
[19:53:40] <pemmet> :)
[19:53:41] <les> 1" so you don't have to drill many
[19:54:15] <les> drill through case with a carbide spade drill
[19:54:30] <les> regular drill for core
[19:54:59] <les> about 4 holes in 24 would do it
[19:55:30] <les> predrilled it is $75
[19:56:00] <Jymmm> les 2 at the ends, and two equally spced in the middle?
[19:56:26] <les> the ends could be just clamped
[19:56:51] <Jymmm> 1" O1 @ 12' == $73.45
[19:57:29] <les> would work a while with plastic bearings
[19:57:47] <les> roll ball bearings on it and it will deform
[19:57:52] <les> point contact
[19:58:03] <les> because it is so soft
[19:58:44] <Jymmm> and W1 ?
[19:58:57] <les> ditto
[19:59:51] <Jymmm> wth I thought drillrod was something like R60
[20:00:05] <les> now cold drawn hex stock would do better with ball bearings
[20:00:33] <Jymmm> they only have flat
[20:00:49] <les> Jymmm...hardened and untempered W1 is rockwell c 58-62
[20:01:04] <Jymmm> and annealed?
[20:01:11] <les> annealed it is too soft to even be on the rockwell c scalee
[20:01:21] <les> scale
[20:01:58] <Jymmm> triangle T15 HSS
[20:02:24] <Jymmm> hardened to 67 - 68 Rc.
[20:03:07] <les> buying the casehardened stuff and drilling your own holes is the only thing that comes close to your budget
[20:03:32] <les> it's ASI 1070
[20:03:50] <les> oops wrong page
[20:03:56] <Jymmm> bah, I cna't find it now
[20:04:23] <les> it's low carbon except for a 1-3 mm skin
[20:04:42] <les> RC 60-63 on the surface
[20:04:51] <les> and you can drill it
[20:05:28] <les> I do it all the time
[20:05:49] <les> I just drill through the case on both sides
[20:06:05] <les> then blast through with an ordinary drill bit
[20:07:11] <Jymmm> what if I use the drillrod, do what I need to it, then have it tempered? is that expensive?
[20:07:45] <les> you could have drillrod hardened and tempered yes
[20:08:00] <les> I think that will cost a lot though
[20:08:25] <Jymmm> who does that type of work?
[20:08:40] <les> because it would need to be vacuum hardened to preserve the surface finish
[20:08:55] <les> Any heat treater
[20:09:35] <les> W1 warps a LOT though
[20:09:45] <les> o1 much better
[20:10:14] <Jymmm> won't they guarntee the process any ?
[20:10:45] <les> sure
[20:10:51] <SWPadnos> guaranteed to warp :)
[20:10:55] <les> yeah
[20:11:19] <les> It depends on the stresses you put in partly
[20:11:24] <les> by drilling
[20:11:57] <les> but most of it is due to hardened steel having a different crystal structure
[20:12:16] <les> body centered cubic rather than face centered
[20:12:39] <anonimasu> iab
[20:13:08] <les> O1 is more forgiving due to the much lower quench rate
[20:13:26] <les> in sub inch sections O1 wil actually air harden
[20:15:01] <Jymmm> what type of metal is drillrod?
[20:15:08] <Jymmm> 1010 ?
[20:15:20] <les> tool steel
[20:15:27] <Jymmm> D2 ?
[20:15:35] <les> usually about 1% carbon
[20:16:05] <Jymmm> D2 : C=1.5 Cr=0.8 Mn=0.9
[20:16:21] <Jymmm> err
[20:16:31] <Jymmm> C=1.5 Cr=12 Mo=1 V=1.1 Co=1
[20:16:43] <les> yeah way up there
[20:17:09] <les> we call it hyper eutectoid
[20:17:24] <les> it has lots of precipitated carbides
[20:17:42] <les> very very good wear resistance due to that
[20:18:22] <les> We used to call it "high carbon high chrome"
[20:20:37] <Jymmm> have you guys seen this? www.emachineshop.com they even do mold injection now
[20:21:49] <les> I have seen it
[20:22:34] <anonimasu> nice
[20:22:43] <anonimasu> I wish it was cheap/easy to get stuff here..
[20:23:04] <les> I have to order most everything
[20:23:10] <Jymmm> I thought the moldinjection was a nice idea
[20:23:28] <anonimasu> yep..
[20:24:05] <anonimasu> I'd love to have them do some wire edm work..
[20:25:00] <anonimasu> but I cant remember what I needed EDMC:ed
[20:25:02] <anonimasu> err edm:ed
[20:25:13] <Jymmm> I hate when that happens =)
[20:25:58] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/slot-sig.lyx: File changed. New revision:1.8
[20:26:13] <anonimasu> well I'll build a edm meventually
[20:26:35] <les> wire?
[20:26:41] <anonimasu> ah hardened steel rod..
[20:26:59] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:27:22] <Jymmm> The'yre in NJ
[20:27:51] <anonimasu> the trouble is the PSU
[20:28:03] <anonimasu> I dont care about machining speed really.. :)
[20:28:39] <anonimasu> it's the ability to machine stuff...
[20:28:45] <anonimasu> hard stuff..
[20:29:06] <les> hard to do or hard materials?
[20:29:15] <anonimasu> hard materials..
[20:29:25] <anonimasu> hardened stuff...
[20:29:31] <les> right
[20:29:53] <anonimasu> gearbox gears after hardening
[20:30:25] <les> boring them?
[20:30:34] <anonimasu> re-cut the teeth..
[20:30:44] <anonimasu> surface the teeth..
[20:30:46] <anonimasu> :)
[20:30:56] <les> oh
[20:31:05] <anonimasu> to get the tolerances right..
[20:31:14] <anonimasu> hardening would wrap them..
[20:31:53] <Jymmm> les you gonna tell me SS is too soft too?
[20:32:06] <les> The hardened spiral bevels I used for x axis were fairly accurate
[20:32:23] <les> well some is
[20:32:34] <les> it readily work hardens though
[20:32:39] <les> some alloys
[20:32:39] <anonimasu> yep..
[20:32:44] <Jymmm> les are you sure you dont just need some viagra?!
[20:32:55] <les> ha
[20:33:01] <anonimasu> :]
[20:33:10] <anonimasu> I need to leave for a bit I'll be back later
[20:33:16] <les> k
[20:33:18] <Jymmm> anonimasu C ya
[20:33:28] <anonimasu> laters guys
[20:33:40] <Jymmm> les you keep telling me everything is too soft, just wasn't sure =)
[20:33:41] <anonimasu> les: I cant seem to find any good circuit for it..
[20:34:00] <anonimasu> digital ones..
[20:34:09] <les> for what?
[20:34:14] <Jymmm> edm
[20:34:16] <anonimasu> edm
[20:34:28] <les> oh
[20:34:44] <les> not sure...don't know much about the details
[20:35:27] <SWPadnos> there's an ongoing discussion on CCED about EDM and how the methods are highly protected secrets
[20:35:32] <les> I have hired it done a good bit
[20:35:42] <les> but never messed with it myself
[20:36:09] <les> SWP really
[20:36:46] <A-L-P-H-A> wth... techTV has changed to a MAC channel. wth?
[20:37:08] <SWPadnos> yeah - it's the micro-reversals when the electrode hits the workpiece and things like that
[20:37:14] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, they aren't highly protected...
[20:37:26] <A-L-P-H-A> isn't it pulsed Dc current?
[20:37:29] <les> I just saw that nastiness about guys putting lapping compund on the ways of their chinese lathes to smooth them out
[20:37:29] <SWPadnos> yes - techTV had to fold because they did a show with me on it :)
[20:37:31] <les> yikes
[20:37:44] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, pardon?
[20:37:53] <A-L-P-H-A> you're mug was on techtv?
[20:37:57] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:38:11] <les> I watch that
[20:38:17] <les> watched
[20:38:22] <SWPadnos> when the second Matrix movie came out, I was on a show talking about the technology behind the bullet time stuff
[20:38:35] <SWPadnos> CBS national news as well
[20:38:39] <les> wow
[20:39:04] <Jymmm> les I read your response to the Mothers =)
[20:39:11] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, you made that software?
[20:39:22] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm confused.
[20:39:23] <SWPadnos> Not that I had anything to do with the Matrix - I just helped design a better "dullet time" camera than they used :)
[20:39:24] <A-L-P-H-A> stop confusing me.
[20:39:29] <SWPadnos> bullet, that is
[20:39:35] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, cool.
[20:39:40] <A-L-P-H-A> I saw some tidbit of that.
[20:39:47] <A-L-P-H-A> don't remember what you look like.
[20:39:58] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:40:01] <SWPadnos> me either :)
[20:40:22] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A he's the one not even a mother could love!
[20:40:53] <SWPadnos> There's information at
http://www.bigfreeze.com/
[20:41:01] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, leave the man alone. He enjoys sucking on Rodney's oysters.
[20:41:17] <Jymmm> That sounded REALLY bad.
[20:41:22] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:42:14] <Jymmm> I never realize TechTV went off the air
[20:43:01] <A-L-P-H-A> they didn't.
[20:43:13] <A-L-P-H-A> just that lots of their segments are mac related now.
[20:43:23] <Jymmm> url?
[20:43:26] <A-L-P-H-A> mac's have less than 10%... but 20-25% of the content is for mac BS.
[20:43:28] <SWPadnos> they were bought out, and the original programming is gone
[20:43:46] <A-L-P-H-A> it's not G4TechTv.
[20:43:46] <Jymmm> they originated here in Silicon Valley
[20:44:23] <A-L-P-H-A> Well, it was G4 and TechTV... then named G4TechTV... now RENAMED to G4TV.
[20:46:50] <les> I am on their mailing list and was informed of the name change
[20:47:09] <les> They consider it a new totally different show
[20:47:10] <Jymmm> url?
[20:47:14] <A-L-P-H-A> les, didn't you throw out your TV?
[20:47:31] <les> ha nah
[20:47:56] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, it was robin_sz
[20:47:56] <SWPadnos> that was the wife
[20:47:59] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A if he threw it out, what's he gonna watch the porn on?
[20:48:06] <A-L-P-H-A> computer.
[20:48:52] <Jymmm> les you have a tuner card in your computer?
[20:49:00] <A-L-P-H-A> www.puretna.com
[20:49:06] <A-L-P-H-A> that way
[20:49:12] <A-L-P-H-A> not office safe
[20:50:01] <Jymmm> I like the ehader photo, nice lighting
[20:51:13] <Jymmm> never really considered colored lighting any
[20:51:39] <les> no tuner card
[20:51:48] <les> have sat tv in the music room
[20:51:59] <Jymmm> les we can get you a USB one for $65
[20:52:11] <Jymmm> also dbls as a svideo i/O
[20:52:29] <Jymmm> inc cc reomte
[20:52:33] <les> I run svideo from the sat box
[20:52:48] <robin_sz> Jymmm: thats what DVD and laptops were invented for
[20:53:10] <Jymmm> robin_sz: Oh, is THAT why my laptop is 15" =)
[20:53:31] <Jymmm> and has SPDIF =)
[20:53:45] <Jymmm> moans and groans in AC-3 =)
[20:54:43] <Jymmm> I dont know if most laptops are this way or not, but mine considers internal, external, and S-Video out and three seperate displays.
[20:55:59] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: a friend of mine made his own "bullet time" rig for a climbing movie, has some excellent (staged) fall sequences and dynos
[20:56:22] <les> well svideo was good at the time due to the fact that chroma and luminance could not be separated fully in moving scenes
[20:56:32] <les> in NTSC
[21:00:52] <SWPadnos> robin_sz: what's his name?
[21:01:13] <Jymmm> les please dont suggest that composite is much better than S-Video whatever you do!
[21:04:28] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, why? [I don't know]
[21:04:32] <A-L-P-H-A> I just use svideo.
[21:04:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I dont' have componsite.
[21:05:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I've better detail with and without with PS2 on a composite video TV... and compared it to Svideo... Composite had a sharper picture
[21:05:15] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: S-Video is fine, just that Composite is maybe 5-10% better imo
[21:05:37] <Jymmm> not even to make be go that direction
[21:05:39] <A-L-P-H-A> that's still significant enough
[21:05:50] <Jymmm> RGBHV all the way baby!
[21:06:19] <Jymmm> and a nice line-doubler
[21:08:22] <les> oops was away
[21:09:48] <les> the svideo/composite thing is kinda ancient history now I guess
[21:10:14] <Jymmm> now in this conversation or in 2005 ?
[21:10:28] <les> heh 2005
[21:10:58] <les> years ago I would scrutinize the comb filter system when buying a tv
[21:11:36] <anonimasu> iab
[21:11:53] <Jymmm> les: I never got into it THAT much =)
[21:12:43] <les> I JUST HATED THAT EALIER COMPOSITE TVS LOST HALF THE LUMINANCE SIGNAL TO GET COLOR
[21:12:47] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:12:51] <les> it stuck again
[21:13:04] <les> shift sticks
[21:13:16] <A-L-P-H-A> I read les' statement as "suck it". I don't know why
[21:13:37] <les> haha
[21:14:41] <les> but hey video recorders trashed 2/3 of the signal information content...no one seemed to mind
[21:15:15] <les> and no one seems to mind that practically no one transmits wide I anymore
[21:15:18] <anonimasu> yep..
[21:15:20] <anonimasu> I've seen it..
[21:15:20] <anonimasu> :D
[21:15:26] <anonimasu> seen/noticesd
[21:15:31] <les> so everything on tv is either pink or blue.
[21:16:18] <les> anon you prob have SECAM...never a problem for you?
[21:16:40] <anonimasu> PAL
[21:16:43] <anonimasu> not secam
[21:16:52] <les> oh ok
[21:16:56] <SWPadnos> PAL with SCART connectors...
[21:17:01] <les> PAL is good
[21:17:02] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:17:12] <SWPadnos> we love SCART - NOT!
[21:17:20] <les> you actually get to see all colors
[21:17:27] <anonimasu> waht's wrong with it?
[21:17:33] <SWPadnos> no tint control needed
[21:17:35] <anonimasu> s/waht/what
[21:17:42] <anonimasu> lol
[21:17:45] <anonimasu> I dont watch tv..
[21:17:54] <anonimasu> I am spoiled by the computer screen..
[21:17:56] <SWPadnos> I've just had a couple of annoying glitches, and heard lots of bad things about SCART
[21:18:46] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is pondering a macro language
[21:18:56] <SWPadnos> How about Ebonics?
[21:19:02] <anonimasu> nope..
[21:19:11] <SWPadnos> OK - Python?
[21:19:29] <SWPadnos> no - wait - G-code macros!!!
[21:19:30] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: I wouldnt touch it with a stick.
[21:19:38] <anonimasu> yeah, online programming..
[21:19:40] <SWPadnos> ebonics or python? :)
[21:19:47] <anonimasu> neither.
[21:19:52] <anonimasu> err either.
[21:20:06] <les> Gbonics
[21:20:09] <anonimasu> sloyeah
[21:20:13] <anonimasu> wait a sec.
[21:20:23] <SWPadnos> that's a whole lotta tabs
[21:20:35] <anonimasu> ^H
[21:20:42] <anonimasu_> much better..
[21:20:57] <SWPadnos> right - DELs
[21:21:09] <SWPadnos> (tab = 0x07)
[21:21:20] <anonimasu_> well, a simple language for online programming..
[21:21:38] <anonimasu_> that'll generate gcode..
[21:22:17] <SWPadnos> like PHP?
[21:22:27] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ sighs
[21:22:40] <SWPadnos> online like "web-based", or online like "at the controller"?
[21:22:44] <anonimasu_> at the controller.
[21:22:46] <SWPadnos> ah
[21:22:51] <anonimasu_> somthing you can hack easily from your mind
[21:23:02] <SWPadnos> like goto 10,10
[21:23:06] <SWPadnos> drill 1"
[21:23:09] <anonimasu_> slot y20 z10(5)
[21:23:13] <Jymmm> anonimasu BF
[21:23:27] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: what?
[21:23:40] <Jymmm> anonimasu BF is a programming language
[21:23:42] <anonimasu_> slot from current position to y20 using a z increment of 5 each..
[21:23:45] <anonimasu_> yeah I know.
[21:23:49] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: why d
[21:23:51] <anonimasu_> do you mention it?
[21:23:57] <Jymmm> anonimasu macro
[21:24:03] <SWPadnos> or do 10 (move X+1 slot Y(0.5) @ z=1.0 )
[21:24:14] <Jymmm> anonimasu there's always QBASIC =)
[21:24:21] <SWPadnos> no - LOGO
[21:24:26] <SWPadnos> turn 20
[21:24:27] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ sighs.
[21:24:27] <Jymmm> alreayd has GOTO too! =)
[21:24:33] <SWPadnos> forward 10
[21:24:36] <SWPadnos> turn -20
[21:24:39] <SWPadnos> etc.
[21:25:23] <Jymmm> logo doesn't sound bad, realistically
[21:25:32] <SWPadnos> You can probably do a lot with something that just allows small snippets of code to be named, and has looping constructs
[21:25:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos does logo have conditionals?
[21:26:12] <SWPadnos> yes, but it's been a long time since I've done anything with it (like 20+ years)
[21:26:13] <anonimasu_> hm, it's for online programming..
[21:26:17] <anonimasu_> remember that..
[21:26:37] <anonimasu_> like making a series of slots in a part you've already got set up and dont feel like changing your program to do..
[21:26:43] <SWPadnos> yes - so you can name something like "tap cycle", and use it as a command of its' own
[21:26:57] <A-L-P-H-A> can someone tell me what the yellow lines represent in this map?
http://www.linuxcnc.org/usrmap32005.jpg
[21:26:59] <anonimasu_> hm, yeah somthing like it..
[21:27:00] <CIA-4> 03paul_c * 10emc2/src/po/de_rs274_err.po: Latest translations courtesy of the German users group. Thanks folks.
[21:27:40] <SWPadnos> looks like it could be machine makers that use EMC, but I don't really know
[21:27:57] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c would know.
[21:28:01] <anonimasu_> SWPadnos: I am thinking about having it generate the gcode on the fly, but somthing easy to hand hack..
[21:28:02] <Jymmm> hops
[21:28:06] <anonimasu_> I havent drawn anything up..
[21:28:13] <anonimasu_> so if you have any ideas come up with them..
[21:28:35] <A-L-P-H-A> loops like the link to london, or north of france.
[21:28:42] <A-L-P-H-A> denmark?
[21:29:28] <SWPadnos> I'm thinking about it - also from a touchscreen perspective (like touch the name of the macro you want to run next, possibly type in a number if there are parameters)
[21:29:33] <anonimasu_> I think it's yeah
[21:29:38] <anonimasu_> on the fly..
[21:29:45] <anonimasu_> the simplicity is all i care about..
[21:30:09] <anonimasu_> SWPadnos: somthing like it..
[21:30:28] <SWPadnos> it depends on how extensible you want it
[21:30:47] <anonimasu_> well, I want it easy to use..
[21:30:49] <anonimasu_> mostly
[21:31:01] <SWPadnos> if there would just be things like "rectangular pocket" or "slot" or "drill cycle", then it's not too complex
[21:31:05] <anonimasu_> there's always cam programs..
[21:31:07] <anonimasu_> yeah..
[21:31:54] <SWPadnos> if you want people to be able to basically do conversational programming, it's a little more complex :)
[21:32:49] <anonimasu_> slot from x1 to x45 cutter radius 40
[21:32:49] <anonimasu_> ;)
[21:33:03] <SWPadnos> heck - for one-off stuff, just being able to rotate the axes would be a big help
[21:33:20] <anonimasu_> rotate the axes?
[21:33:57] <SWPadnos> yeah, like make it so jogging doesn't go along X or Y, but say at a 30 degree angle
[21:34:18] <anonimasu_> yeah
[21:34:32] <anonimasu_> I saw that functionality on a haas machine..
[21:34:36] <SWPadnos> or allow me to have an effective rotary axis by setting the centerpoint, and then being able to move to r-theta points
[21:34:36] <paul_c> * paul_c scrolls back a few lines....
[21:34:49] <anonimasu_> on a lathe for turning radiuses by hand..
[21:35:01] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c what are the yellow lines represent in this map?
http://www.linuxcnc.org/usrmap32005.jpg
[21:35:02] <anonimasu_> feeding by hand and it interpolates the Y axis..
[21:35:05] <A-L-P-H-A> err.
[21:35:10] <A-L-P-H-A> what do the yellow lines represent in this map?
http://www.linuxcnc.org/usrmap32005.jpg
[21:35:29] <robin_sz> wee
[21:35:32] <paul_c> primary distribution points for the BDI
[21:36:03] <paul_c> they need reviewing....
[21:36:15] <A-L-P-H-A> oh. mayhaps links to those distropoints should be made. :)
[21:36:39] <A-L-P-H-A> and perhaps a legend for the map
[21:37:05] <robin_sz> mmm ...
[21:37:06] <les> paul, ray, peter, and someone in finland?
[21:37:20] <robin_sz> how about Arthur and the Knights of the round table?
[21:37:23] <A-L-P-H-A> wasn't AJ distroing it somewhere?
[21:37:33] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos had a link to a copy...
[21:37:56] <paul_c> should probably add points for the mirrors too.
[21:38:12] <anonimasu_> I dont know how you would rotate the axis:es though..
[21:38:15] <A-L-P-H-A> list by continent, and then country.
[21:38:21] <anonimasu_> not for jogging..
[21:38:22] <A-L-P-H-A> or setup a bittorrent tracker! :)
[21:39:20] <paul_c> bittorrent needs a certain critical mass to make it worth doing
[21:40:15] <SWPadnos> my mirror is
http://www.cncgear/com/EMC/BDI/
[21:40:21] <paul_c> with just a handfull of seed servers (or nodes), they will keep getting hammered.
[21:40:30] <SWPadnos> my mirror is
http://www.cncgear.com/EMC/BDI/
[21:40:39] <SWPadnos> bad slash
[21:41:18] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, hey! this would be a nice little device... a jogger... something with nice touch... so spinning dials... to jog... rotary encoder, to sent out pulses... an atmel to scale those pulses to see what's going on... translates them to step/direction pulses.
[21:41:56] <SWPadnos> not like my manual pulse generator?
[21:42:17] <SWPadnos> (complete with crappy photos
[21:42:18] <SWPadnos> )
[21:42:30] <A-L-P-H-A> well... I was hoping for something like the ipod wheel. :)
[21:42:34] <SWPadnos> http://www.cncgear.com/MPG/
[21:42:41] <A-L-P-H-A> or acceleration detection...
[21:42:44] <SWPadnos> nope - just a Grayhill encoder knob
[21:42:46] <A-L-P-H-A> so like how a mouse works. kinda
[21:42:56] <jepler> I agree the photos are pretty crappy
[21:43:00] <SWPadnos> thank you
[21:43:21] <A-L-P-H-A> no white leds?
[21:43:23] <SWPadnos> Those were taken with my modified Walgreens disposable digital camera :)
[21:43:34] <SWPadnos> I haven't seen white 7-segment LEDs
[21:43:39] <SWPadnos> but they'd work
[21:44:32] <jepler> what all does MPG do? It looks pretty complicated.
[21:44:52] <SWPadnos> you turn a knob to set a pulse speed, and it generates step pulses for you
[21:45:12] <SWPadnos> or, you turn a knob, and it outputs several step pulses for each input pulse
[21:45:32] <SWPadnos> basically gives you maual control over a motorized machine (like "mill-by-wire")
[21:46:13] <jepler> how many axes can that board control?
[21:46:28] <SWPadnos> two, four with a daughterboard
[21:46:37] <SWPadnos> depends on the user interface though
[21:48:41] <anonimasu_> hm, I should go home from here now..
[21:48:48] <A-L-P-HA2> later anonimasu
[21:48:58] <anonimasu_> I'll be back in a bit..
[21:52:51] <A-L-P-H-A> mpg = hightech etchasketch
[21:53:58] <SWPadnos> no - that would be dual MPGs :)
[21:54:49] <SWPadnos> smilie test: o-O O-o
[21:54:54] <SWPadnos> smilie test: o-0 0-o
[21:55:06] <SWPadnos> smilie test: o_O O_o
[21:55:57] <A-L-P-H-A> uhuh.
[21:56:07] <A-L-P-H-A> wb aj
[21:56:15] <paul_c> * paul_c wonders what SWPadnos has been drinking.
[21:56:15] <alex_joni> hey alpha
[21:56:21] <alex_joni> hello paul_c
[21:56:23] <alex_joni> cheers SWP
[21:56:23] <SWPadnos> sorry - I don't know all the smilies that chatzilla replaces with icons
[21:56:29] <SWPadnos> hi there
[21:56:33] <A-L-P-H-A> chatzilla replaces stuff?
[21:57:12] <SWPadnos> yeah - a :) turns into a little smilie face picture
[21:57:25] <SWPadnos> plus others
[21:57:33] <alex_joni> bugger that
[21:57:46] <les> paul....a question....does M06Txx send any signal to use for a toll changer plc?
[21:57:51] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos has only had coffee today
[21:57:52] <paul_c> alex_joni: Ben reviewing some of your tkemc translations....
[21:58:00] <alex_joni> and?
[21:58:14] <alex_joni> who's Ben? lol
[21:58:20] <SWPadnos> ich spreche kein deutsche
[21:58:24] <paul_c> "Break on" is not the same as "Brake on"
[21:58:39] <paul_c> s/Ben/Been/
[21:59:01] <alex_joni> paul_c: you have a point there
[21:59:15] <alex_joni> what's difference?
[21:59:19] <paul_c> "Brake" as in car foot or hand is OK
[21:59:23] <les> I have lots of M06 in programs but it seems to do nothing other than call up proper offsets if any
[21:59:31] <SWPadnos> break means to make broken
[21:59:38] <paul_c> "Break" is as in Lunch or Tea break
[22:00:00] <A-L-P-H-A> tea... that sounds good...
[22:00:03] <A-L-P-H-A> also hungry .
[22:00:41] <SWPadnos> U halve two no witch won too youse.
[22:00:55] <paul_c> les: M06Txx sends an NML message to the tool process that may or may not be a tool changer..
[22:01:00] <jepler> "break" can be the opposite of "connect". "The break in the wire meant the machine was unable to operate"
[22:01:11] <les> ok
[22:01:42] <paul_c> it also loads the tool offsets from the table
[22:02:12] <les> well it would need to stop spindle...send a byte to the outside world, wait for completion (by reading something ) and resume
[22:02:49] <les> I am getting the auto tool change urge
[22:03:02] <les> after doing several thousand manual ones
[22:03:18] <paul_c> A small change may be required in the code...
[22:03:29] <alpha_chatzilla> hmm.
[22:03:48] <les> any room anywhere for dio to talk to a plc?
[22:03:55] <SWPadnos> :) :( o_O :~)
[22:04:03] <les> parport?
[22:04:05] <SWPadnos> :D :O
[22:04:30] <SWPadnos> well - I guess he didn't like those :)
[22:04:32] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, you crashed chatzilla on me.
[22:04:40] <A-L-P-H-A> Evil!
[22:04:42] <paul_c> les: maybe a serial port interface
[22:04:42] <SWPadnos> not me, not me
[22:05:23] <les> that would be fine
[22:05:38] <A-L-P-H-A> Hmm... what do I go and make to eat now.
[22:05:46] <gezr> howdy folks
[22:05:57] <les> hello gezr
[22:06:03] <A-L-P-H-A> :) :( o_O :~)
[22:06:10] <A-L-P-H-A> :~)
[22:06:16] <A-L-P-H-A> that last one doesn't work
[22:06:21] <paul_c> les: Can you make a note of it and raise the question again during the codeFest ?
[22:06:35] <les> yes I will
[22:06:50] <SWPadnos> I wonder if this is the type of thing that Ray was getting at with the generic serial idea?
[22:07:15] <les> perhaps
[22:07:26] <A-L-P-H-A> nah, I'll stick with mirc.
[22:07:44] <paul_c> * paul_c has a better idea.....
[22:07:49] <les> I think enabling this would not be a big deal
[22:08:07] <les> but it would need to be an option
[22:08:44] <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : have you tried bitchx?
[22:08:57] <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : oh for windows use zircon or pirch
[22:09:07] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... pizza, sovlakey (sp), sub, tv dinner, burger?
[22:09:16] <SWPadnos> souvlaki
[22:09:24] <A-L-P-H-A> I do not like pirch what so ever.
[22:09:30] <A-L-P-H-A> haven't tried zircon.
[22:09:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I enjoymirc... been using if for a long time.
[22:09:40] <les> more leftover corned beef and cabbage for me
[22:09:47] <SWPadnos> fart city
[22:09:53] <A-L-P-H-A> oh! that's an EXCELLENT idea.
[22:09:59] <les> haha
[22:10:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll go buy some corned beef, and make hot sandwiches.
[22:10:09] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just had pizza
[22:10:19] <A-L-P-H-A> get some sourcrought (sp)
[22:10:35] <A-L-P-H-A> put some cheese in there.
[22:10:41] <A-L-P-H-A> nice glass of icetea.
[22:10:46] <SWPadnos> sauerkraut?
[22:10:57] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, you knew what I was talking about. :)
[22:11:02] <SWPadnos> barely :)
[22:11:13] <A-L-P-H-A> a dill pickle or two on the side.
[22:11:18] <A-L-P-H-A> tomatoe soup.
[22:11:25] <SWPadnos> it's not kosher with the cheese in there :)
[22:11:25] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight.. I got dinner planed for myself now.
[22:11:40] <A-L-P-H-A> my dinner, my food. :P
[22:11:49] <SWPadnos> heh - not like I care either
[22:12:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I could make you not so hungry.
[22:12:19] <A-L-P-H-A> well... loose your appetite. :)
[22:12:34] <les> I am closing my eyes
[22:12:42] <A-L-P-H-A> hahahhahaha.
[22:12:43] <gezr> bologn a
[22:12:55] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm just going to the grocery store now. later folks
[22:13:17] <SWPadnos> ma-ma-ma-my bologna
[22:14:16] <les> deli corned beef!!! later.
[22:14:46] <les> I cook my own
[22:14:55] <les> till it's fall apart tender
[22:15:35] <gezr> I would like to know how to take a slab of beef and corn it
[22:15:41] <paul_c> les:
http://www.redpoint.org.uk/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Code_Base_Queries
[22:15:51] <les> looking
[22:16:37] <paul_c> use the page as a PostIt board...
[22:17:18] <dave-e> hi paul...is les paying attention?
[22:17:22] <les> ok I will add it as sonn as I figure out how to post to it
[22:17:34] <les> hi dave
[22:17:59] <dave-e> ah! les have you tried the Snnnn M3 with the stg?
[22:18:24] <les> I use m3 sometimes
[22:18:35] <paul_c> les:
http://www.redpoint.org.uk/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps http://www.redpoint.org.uk/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=editprefs
[22:18:44] <les> S word I do not have hooked up
[22:18:52] <les> ty paul
[22:19:03] <dave-e> emc task issues the commands but the dac doesn't put out any voltage
[22:19:22] <les> oh really
[22:19:26] <les> with stg?
[22:19:29] <paul_c> dave-e: It should - I added code to do that ages ago.
[22:19:30] <dave-e> yep
[22:19:55] <les> I am about to change spindles so will need to get into that
[22:20:00] <dave-e> I'm running 2-18
[22:20:09] <les> first must beat up segmentqueue
[22:20:18] <dave-e> again
[22:20:31] <les> a 7 hp spindle is of little use if segmentqueue doesn't work
[22:20:45] <dave-e> at least for your app
[22:20:53] <anonimasu> iab
[22:21:03] <les> well wood and plastic in general
[22:21:10] <dave-e> done with turkey calls for awhile?
[22:21:21] <les> 7 hp means cutting at 600-1000 ipm
[22:21:28] <paul_c> les: I'll take a look at segmentqueue and an STGII driver for the 2.6 kernel...
[22:21:33] <dave-e> makes sense
[22:21:36] <les> starting next year's production in a while
[22:21:41] <les> but done for now
[22:21:44] <les> thank god
[22:21:49] <anonimasu> that's 4m/s
[22:22:00] <les> yes
[22:22:11] <anonimasu> if you were milling metal you'd be in the highspeed range..
[22:22:28] <paul_c> les: Add trajectory planner to the PostIt board.
[22:22:33] <dave-e> that makes a LOT of chips
[22:22:38] <anonimasu> *jealous*
[22:22:42] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:22:45] <les> With appropriate accel for those speeds the old TP would tear a machine to pieces
[22:22:53] <anonimasu_> yep
[22:22:53] <les> will add that as well
[22:23:04] <dave-e> I'm running at 20 for accel
[22:23:10] <anonimasu> um 20?
[22:23:10] <dave-e> have not tried higher
[22:23:18] <les> I run about 30
[22:23:27] <dave-e> with belt drive?
[22:23:29] <les> on a machine that is capable of 400
[22:23:38] <anonimasu> I run 1500 in accel..
[22:23:41] <les> direct and belt
[22:23:44] <anonimasu> but it faults at higher feeds..
[22:23:48] <les> it's built to take it
[22:23:51] <anonimasu> but I am metric..
[22:24:14] <les> we are talking of in/sec^2
[22:24:18] <dave-e> 1500 is still pretty decent
[22:24:23] <anonimasu_> oh it wont do that accel..
[22:24:25] <les> you mm/sec^2 prob
[22:24:28] <anonimasu_> it segfaults..
[22:24:32] <anonimasu_> err errors..
[22:24:33] <anonimasu_> ferrors..
[22:24:44] <anonimasu_> I need a faster comp I think
[22:24:54] <anonimasu_> I am aiming at 3m/min
[22:25:19] <dave-e> the only thing I've gotten to 400 was a servo test bench
[22:25:36] <les> I have about 10,000 N force available
[22:25:38] <anonimasu_> but that's with geckodrives.. :)
[22:26:03] <les> 1000 kg effective moving mass
[22:26:29] <dave-e> I've got maybe 1500 Kg to push around
[22:26:46] <les> Yeah I was looking at your machine today
[22:26:48] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos thought 250Kg was bad
[22:26:49] <anonimasu_> les: you saw the datron mills?
[22:27:01] <les> no
[22:27:01] <anonimasu_> http://www.datrondynamics.com/
[22:27:05] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ sighs
[22:27:17] <anonimasu_> whenever I see that clip my mill feels/works/seems like a toy.
[22:27:18] <SWPadnos> heh - only $46k
[22:27:21] <SWPadnos> and up
[22:28:02] <anonimasu_> les: check the video
[22:28:14] <dave-e> but it doesn't do steel. :-(
[22:28:15] <les> ok
[22:28:18] <les> very nice
[22:28:19] <anonimasu_> dave-e: that mill?
[22:28:26] <Imperator_> Hi all
[22:28:43] <dave-e> the datron
[22:28:55] <anonimasu_> yeah
[22:28:57] <SWPadnos> maybe that's how they get away eith a 2kW head
[22:29:08] <anonimasu_> well the larger ones does..
[22:29:26] <anonimasu_> still look at it..
[22:30:03] <les> mine looks about like that with wood
[22:30:07] <anonimasu_> they mill stainless with it if you check samples..
[22:30:21] <anonimasu_> stainless atleast..
[22:30:55] <anonimasu_>
[22:30:55] <anonimasu_> 1,000"/min.
[22:31:03] <anonimasu_> is the speed of the fastest one they have..
[22:31:35] <les> I need about that as well
[22:31:49] <anonimasu_> :)
[22:31:50] <les> machine was built for it
[22:31:58] <SWPadnos> the trouble is - they don't tell you the size of the example parts in the photos
[22:32:35] <SWPadnos> 21.37 minutes, 4 tool changes - whoop-ti-doo if the part is only 1.5x1 inch
[22:32:44] <SWPadnos> big news if it's 1.5x1 meter
[22:39:46] <gezr> im about to watch it maybe, if my player works
[22:40:07] <anonimasu_> :D
[22:40:42] <paul_c> See you all later..
[22:40:45] <gezr> no it doesnt
[22:40:49] <gezr> take care paul_c
[22:44:15] <anonimasu_> :/
[22:46:58] <dave-e> going, going, gone!
[22:46:59] <anonimasu_> gezr: it's blazingly fast..
[22:47:15] <alex_joni> Hey Martin
[22:47:20] <alex_joni> still around?
[22:47:34] <gezr> anonimasu : whats its rapid max?
[22:47:38] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: hey, I did the translation to swedish
[22:47:41] <anonimasu_> gezr: I dont know..
[22:47:45] <anonimasu_> gezr: fast.
[22:48:09] <anonimasu_> let me see if I can find it
[22:48:10] <alex_joni> an0n: check it in
[22:48:11] <SWPadnos> 1000 in/min
[22:48:17] <alex_joni> :)
[22:48:24] <anonimasu_> lol
[22:48:25] <anonimasu_> I cant
[22:48:54] <gezr> thats not fast
[22:49:06] <SWPadnos> it is if you're milling at that speed :)
[22:49:16] <gezr> not with small tools
[22:49:33] <SWPadnos> 60kRPM spindle
[22:50:16] <SWPadnos> Here's the spec sheet
http://www.datrondynamics.com/PDF/DS_VelociRaptor.pdf
[22:50:31] <gezr> it can machine at 1000ipm?
[22:50:59] <anonimasu_> 4.2m/s
[22:51:01] <anonimasu_> yes..
[22:51:08] <anonimasu_> that's feedrates..
[22:51:13] <anonimasu_> err feedrate..
[22:51:14] <anonimasu_> not rapid..
[22:51:30] <anonimasu_> *grins*
[22:51:50] <SWPadnos> at 60k RPM, it would need 60 IPM per flute for 0.001 thick chips
[22:52:34] <SWPadnos> since you'd want thicker chips, and probably 2-flute mills, 300-600 IPM is in the right range (for 0.010 chips, 1 or 2 flutes)
[22:52:55] <SWPadnos> sorry - 0.005 chip thickness
[22:53:30] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[22:53:59] <SWPadnos> but it's true - it doesn't say that 1000 IPM is the imlling rate - only that it can move that fast
[22:54:59] <gezr> http://www.stellram.com/Company/Library/Videos/5702.mov
[22:55:04] <anonimasu_> SWPadnos: did you see the video?
[22:55:09] <gezr> cant access the 5axis video
[22:55:16] <robin_sz> 1000 ipm != 4.2m/s
[22:55:17] <gezr> I cant watch that small ones video for some reason
[22:55:55] <robin_sz> 0.42m/s perhaps
[22:56:01] <anonimasu_> ah
[22:56:01] <anonimasu_> yeah
[22:56:07] <anonimasu_> I calced it wrong :/
[22:56:19] <robin_sz> bad engineer, no cookie.
[22:56:25] <anonimasu_> gezr: that's a slow mill :p
[22:56:31] <gezr> http://www.stellram.com/Company/Library/Videos/VOD04Aluminum.mov
[22:56:45] <gezr> anonimasu_ its probably a 1.5" dia cutter
[22:57:06] <anonimasu_> yeah
[22:57:13] <gezr> just cause something has a high rpm spindle motor and fast travels doesnt make for fast machining
[22:57:43] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ cries
[22:57:56] <A-L-P-H-A> damn, was that sandwich GOOOD.
[22:58:26] <alex_joni> hey robin
[22:58:32] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, give me a 50K RPM motor with 6HP behind that... lets see how fast I can machine.
[22:58:33] <robin_sz> hey
[22:58:50] <anonimasu_> hehe
[22:59:00] <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : they make 50krpm machines with 60hp
[22:59:11] <anonimasu_> I think I'll be changing motor tomorrow.. perhaps..
[22:59:14] <A-L-P-H-A> so giveme one of those then. :)
[22:59:20] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe
[22:59:45] <robin_sz> whhheeeee ... this cross-compiling stuff is fun!
[22:59:51] <anonimasu_> ~5hp
[23:00:09] <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : small stuff with small tools you need that sort of speed, but your only going to make watch
[23:00:12] <gezr> es
[23:00:23] <A-L-P-H-A> it is bad when little 16 yrold girls are checking you out?
[23:00:24] <gezr> or dies that are small
[23:00:42] <A-L-P-H-A> damn grocery store employees.
[23:01:21] <alex_joni> robin: cool stuff
[23:01:21] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[23:01:25] <Imperator_> the spindel in that movie is not horizontal !!
[23:01:29] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: I'll commit it tomorrow..
[23:01:55] <anonimasu_> Imperator_: the HSM machines are vertical to help clear the chips
[23:02:05] <anonimasu_> although I dont know about that one :)
[23:02:26] <anonimasu_> night alex
[23:02:35] <Imperator_> no i mean you can see the diference in the machined surface
[23:02:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I saw one from lockheed or boeing ... on PBS... that milled out the titanium airframe for the new F22. Freak'n COOL.
[23:03:17] <A-L-P-H-A> giant slab of metal, being machined away...
[23:03:19] <alex_joni> night guys
[23:03:19] <Imperator_> the spindel has no right angel to the table
[23:09:46] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ stretches
[23:25:50] <les> oh hi john
[23:26:26] <jmkasunich> hi
[23:28:38] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone seen "the sketch show"? it's pretty fun!
[23:31:50] <robin_sz> nope
[23:31:57] <anonimasu_> no
[23:32:13] <robin_sz> * robin_sz has more C++ fun
[23:32:32] <A-L-P-H-A> c++ annoys me a lot.
[23:32:44] <jmkasunich> C++ and fun in the same sentence? robin must be daft
[23:32:50] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ likes c++
[23:32:54] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz's a wally
[23:33:02] <anonimasu_> OO-Hell
[23:33:12] <A-L-P-H-A> a "wally" that isn't gett'n fanny.
[23:33:26] <robin_sz> you wish ;)
[23:34:09] <robin_sz> slowly beating this GUI into shape.
[23:34:25] <A-L-P-H-A> visual C++ is fun... as most of the tedius work is done for me.
[23:34:27] <anonimasu_> s/shape/speed
[23:34:28] <anonimasu_> ^_^
[23:34:36] <jmkasunich> with a _large_ hammer I hope
[23:34:53] <robin_sz> its just a code cleanup exercise to start with
[23:34:58] <anonimasu_> ah ok
[23:35:06] <jmkasunich> is that the g2002 thing?
[23:35:14] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:35:40] <robin_sz> seems Steve prefered copy/paste to loops and functions in some places :)
[23:35:41] <robin_sz> sigh
[23:35:56] <robin_sz> he did say it was quick'n'dirty
[23:36:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I honestly prefer delphi. Object pascal, easy. Speed wise. oh ohwell. not that bad.
[23:43:46] <Imperator_> chiao
[23:43:49] <robin_sz> I think I prefer C++ simply because it still has all the standard C bits
[23:44:25] <jmkasunich> bits are good.... 8 of em make a byte
[23:45:00] <robin_sz> the question is .. how many of them make a word?
[23:45:13] <jmkasunich> depends on the word
[23:45:24] <robin_sz> quite
[23:45:37] <jmkasunich> which is why I don't use the word word anymore
[23:46:08] <jmkasunich> used to, back in the days of yore... BYTE, WORD, DWORD, QWORD
[23:46:20] <robin_sz> coo
[23:47:06] <jmkasunich> I like things like s16, u32, etc these days (at least for stuff where you care how long it is)
[23:47:49] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich needs to find a new job
[23:52:02] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A gives jmkasunich a mop and bucket. :)
[23:52:40] <jmkasunich> too late - I found myself mopping at work this week
[23:52:59] <jmkasunich> one of the hazards of working with water cooled motor drives is puddles on the floor
[23:53:03] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A gives jmkasunich a squeegy and bucket of soapy water.
[23:53:14] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A points to the windows.
[23:53:20] <jmkasunich> I don't do Windoze!!!!!
[23:53:51] <robin_sz> im well impressed with this cross-compiling thing
[23:54:05] <robin_sz> I get to play on linux and get it just nice
[23:54:20] <robin_sz> and right at the end I can just build for doze and give it to the users
[23:54:21] <jmkasunich> what is this rot about RTAI dropping support for shared memory?
[23:54:38] <robin_sz> I suppose I should run it at least once before I hand it out though
[23:59:17] <jmkasunich> just once
