#emc | Logs for 2005-03-03

[00:20:17] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[00:51:57] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[01:32:34] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/drivers/sensoray/sensoray526.c: ADC routine fleshed out.
[01:33:13] <anonimasu> goodnight everyone
[01:34:02] <paul_c> What are you doing up so early ??
[01:34:17] <anonimasu> oh, been to a lan party met some friends..
[01:34:26] <anonimasu> I've got a day off tomorrow for going ski-ing
[01:34:35] <anonimasu> err skiing...
[01:35:48] <anonimasu> paul_c: dont you ever sleep?
[01:35:57] <anonimasu> ;)
[01:36:13] <paul_c> from time to time.
[01:36:28] <anonimasu> hehe
[01:36:43] <anonimasu> I see your cvs commits round the clock almost :)
[01:37:39] <anonimasu> * anonimasu makes a mental not to remember to play with nml tomorrow
[01:37:57] <anonimasu> note..
[01:38:16] <paul_c> * paul_c hands anonimasu a 3D rendering library with multiple pipelines
[01:38:47] <anonimasu> hehe
[01:39:14] <anonimasu> nice little example
[01:47:55] <paul_c> Bed time for both of us....
[01:48:17] <paul_c> Goodnight all.
[02:52:16] <joe2000chevy> no one chatting?
[03:48:57] <joe2000chevy> does bdi come with workgroup networking and file sharing?
[04:01:16] <danfalck> hi joe
[04:01:46] <qwerty> Hi all
[04:01:50] <danfalck> hello
[04:02:22] <qwerty> just found out about linux and your site :)
[04:02:30] <danfalck> cool
[04:03:25] <qwerty> could you guys give me some info like for start where can i dl the last version of emc ..
[04:04:11] <danfalck> first off, what would you like to do? Do you have a mill?
[04:05:10] <qwerty> well i need to control 3 axes
[04:05:22] <qwerty> with step motor
[04:05:33] <danfalck> ok.
[04:06:00] <danfalck> you can download the bdi cd from :http://sherline.com/emc/
[04:06:12] <qwerty> i have 3 motors (for 3 axes dahh...)
[04:06:16] <qwerty> thanx
[04:06:40] <danfalck> If you want to just check it out first, use the http://sherline.com/emc/BDI-Live_rc46.iso
[04:06:58] <danfalck> it's a 'live' cd that will let you run from the cd without installing
[04:07:10] <danfalck> it gives you a feel for the system
[04:07:26] <danfalck> you will need at least 256 meg of memory
[04:07:29] <danfalck> to use that one
[04:07:36] <qwerty> cool
[04:07:46] <danfalck> the regular bdi:http://sherline.com/emc/bdi-4.16.iso
[04:08:01] <danfalck> needs less memory to install, since it's going to the hard drive
[04:08:33] <qwerty> i have a 514md DDR with 1.47 Ghz
[04:08:39] <danfalck> great
[04:08:45] <qwerty> should do the job :)
[04:09:14] <danfalck> try installing it. If you have problems come back here and ask questions
[04:09:46] <qwerty> thanx for the help :)
[04:10:00] <danfalck> sure. good luck with everything
[04:10:56] <danfalck> joe2000chevy: are you still there?
[04:17:37] <joe2000chevy> yea sorry
[04:17:57] <danfalck> no problem.
[04:18:08] <danfalck> how's it going with the machine?
[04:18:34] <joe2000chevy> all done, i am changing out the router with a rotozip.
[04:19:18] <danfalck> are things moving predictably now?
[04:19:20] <joe2000chevy> rotozip is var. speed from 15,000rpm to 30,000 rpm
[04:19:26] <danfalck> cool
[04:19:31] <joe2000chevy> yea, it moves great
[04:19:34] <danfalck> good
[04:19:44] <danfalck> you had a network question earlier?
[04:19:51] <joe2000chevy> i need to figure linux out tho....
[04:20:05] <joe2000chevy> yea, i do not no how to connect to it
[04:20:17] <joe2000chevy> the linux, is automatically on the net.
[04:20:22] <danfalck> If you are doing cam with a windows machine, you might be able to use Samba to do the job
[04:20:44] <danfalck> I'm not much help with this, but I think it might be what you need
[04:21:02] <danfalck> Granted, I have never used Samba, myself.
[04:21:08] <joe2000chevy> how do i get a linux machine on the network?
[04:21:41] <danfalck> Well, I haven't had any problems using my DSL router.
[04:22:02] <danfalck> I guess my router acts as the gateway
[04:22:18] <danfalck> when I did the install, I selected dhcp
[04:22:36] <danfalck> Sorry, I'm not much help here on this one.
[04:22:49] <danfalck> One of the other guys could help better
[04:22:55] <joe2000chevy> well it already connected, i just cant view it with windows.
[04:23:08] <joe2000chevy> and also the file sharing said it was not installed?
[04:23:12] <joe2000chevy> in linux
[04:23:24] <danfalck> hmm
[04:23:40] <danfalck> do you know what address it thinks it's at?
[04:23:47] <danfalck> like
[04:23:51] <danfalck> or something like that
[04:24:14] <danfalck> you could use Ftp to put files on it
[04:24:47] <joe2000chevy> yea i looked at the clients on my router and see it connected....
[04:24:47] <danfalck> find a ftp program and log in with your current user name and user password
[04:25:12] <joe2000chevy> i know one guy here does a remote access right?
[04:25:26] <danfalck> I do remote access from my Mac
[04:25:39] <danfalck> you can look at it with SSH or VNC
[04:25:57] <danfalck> I use SSH to run my linux box from the mac
[04:26:30] <danfalck> but you probably need to use Samba to transfer files more than anything
[04:27:05] <joe2000chevy> i have never used linux before so it new to me, but if it was windows i could setup vpn and also i set up vpn between offices also.
[04:27:35] <danfalck> I will have to do some reasearch on this
[04:28:23] <joe2000chevy> yea me2
[04:29:28] <joe2000chevy> since i do not know linux i need programs that autoinstall
[04:29:28] <qwerty> is linux better the windows (i know it sound dumb) but i just found out about linux last week at work
[04:29:47] <joe2000chevy> its different
[04:30:05] <joe2000chevy> i have been using windows since 3.0
[04:30:20] <qwerty> win95 here
[04:30:25] <danfalck> I use linux and mac os X
[04:30:35] <danfalck> used to use windows up to win98
[04:30:44] <danfalck> so I'm not qualified to answer that
[04:30:59] <danfalck> I like what I can do with linux and EMC
[04:31:05] <danfalck> make machines run
[04:31:07] <joe2000chevy> then 3.11, 95, 98, 98se, me, 2000, 200 pro, xp, xp pro, nt 4.0, server 2003.... so i know windows well.
[04:31:33] <qwerty> i heard about linux fedora 3 is it good ? the site was www.linuxiso.org if i recall correctly
[04:31:57] <danfalck> I like the bdi disk that paul came up with. It's based on debian
[04:32:08] <danfalck> it's very easy to install new programs with
[04:32:30] <danfalck> just type int apt-get install program name and it gets done
[04:32:32] <qwerty> ok so debian it is :)
[04:32:46] <danfalck> use the bdi from the sherline site
[04:32:53] <danfalck> it works very well
[04:32:56] <joe2000chevy> i used the total install on a machine, went seamless.
[04:33:13] <joe2000chevy> yea def. BDI for this project
[04:33:17] <danfalck> pual did a great job setting that up
[04:33:48] <joe2000chevy> true that
[04:34:01] <qwerty> do he show who to connect the stepper to the PC
[04:34:34] <danfalck> well, you might want to look on some of the yahoo groups for that kind of advise. Let me find a Url...
[04:34:36] <joe2000chevy> no thats with the board you get
[04:34:59] <joe2000chevy> i use the hobby cnc 3 axis board
[04:35:02] <danfalck> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO
[04:35:28] <qwerty> what do i need i have 3 stepper one PC with cd-rom and all , and a tranformator 120 VAC / 10VDC
[04:35:50] <danfalck> stepper drivers (electronics to power the motors)
[04:36:00] <danfalck> power supply for the drivers
[04:36:14] <danfalck> cable to go from the parallel port to the drivers
[04:36:40] <danfalck> joe2000chevy: do you have a good url for the board you are using?
[04:36:59] <joe2000chevy> 10v is to low
[04:37:10] <joe2000chevy> hobbycnc.com
[04:37:24] <qwerty> i know it 10V DC with 7A
[04:37:36] <joe2000chevy> min. is 12v
[04:37:57] <joe2000chevy> i use a psu power suplly right now. jacked it up to 12.4v
[04:39:02] <danfalck> 24 volt transformer, bridge rectifier, capacator
[04:40:00] <joe2000chevy> here is my machine i just built http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8432
[04:40:19] <qwerty> maybe i didn't explain it well... sorry my english is not perfect.. my stepper motor requier 10 VDC with 7 A
[04:40:24] <danfalck> http://www.mpja.com/productview.asp?product=15542+PS
[04:41:06] <joe2000chevy> yup that will work
[04:41:13] <danfalck> oh is that what is on the label of the stepper motor?
[04:41:50] <qwerty> yes
[04:42:17] <qwerty> it has also half step
[04:42:49] <danfalck> do you have the stepper drives to power the motors?
[04:42:56] <joe2000chevy> mot really microstepping. altho i have mine set to 1/2 setp
[04:44:18] <qwerty> stepper drives?? no i don't think so
[04:44:48] <qwerty> is it the card that make me controle the motor
[04:44:51] <qwerty> ??
[04:45:05] <danfalck> check out this site: http://geckodrives.com/
[04:45:30] <danfalck> these are like 'amplifiers' to make your motors move
[04:45:33] <A-L-P-H-A> cool, qwerty is from Toronto. :)
[04:46:34] <A-L-P-H-A> controller (computer usually) -> [optional] controller board -> driver (power source for motors, be it steppers, or servos) -> Motors
[04:47:46] <qwerty> wow i was trying to find stuff like that for 2 days now thank the Lord i found U guys !!!
[04:48:51] <joe2000chevy> lol
[04:50:32] <qwerty> but i still need the power supply no !?!
[04:50:53] <joe2000chevy> yup
[04:51:17] <joe2000chevy> for those you need 30 to 48 v maybe?
[04:51:55] <danfalck> depends on the drives you get too. some can't take more than 40V before failing
[04:52:03] <joe2000chevy> and all three drawing 21amps
[04:52:25] <joe2000chevy> his are 10v 7a
[04:52:38] <qwerty> and can i trust does http://geckodrives.com/ guys to send me the driver they woun't stillmy money .
[04:52:57] <joe2000chevy> oh they are well known
[04:53:00] <danfalck> I think that there are some notes on the Gecko site that help with selecting power supplies
[04:53:03] <joe2000chevy> in the cnc world
[04:53:17] <danfalck> He has a good reputation
[04:53:25] <joe2000chevy> im on cnczone.com, you can read about them there also
[04:53:33] <qwerty> ok
[04:53:39] <danfalck> Rutex is another company that is known as good also
[04:53:47] <joe2000chevy> true
[04:54:18] <danfalck> I need to go. Good luck with everything guys.
[04:55:04] <joe2000chevy> ok thanks
[04:55:08] <qwerty> thank for all danfalck good night to U
[05:00:04] <qwerty> one last question (i know i must be testing your patient sorry ...) but before i call it a night i wanna to know if is the gecko that i plug to the pc right
[05:03:35] <qwerty> well thanx for all the news stuff and the links wow !! have a good night All
[06:01:53] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[06:09:41] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone wnat some steel? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=135&item=6514407525&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW <-- how stupid is this?
[06:58:18] <Jymmm> * Jymmm wants a nuclear sub... FREE ELECTRICITY
[09:28:00] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[10:24:36] <anonimasu> good morning paul
[10:28:47] <paul_c> Morning.
[10:29:30] <anonimasu> what's up?
[11:52:52] <alex_joni> gday
[11:55:30] <anonimasu> hello
[11:55:35] <anonimasu> I'll be back later going to go skiing
[11:55:36] <anonimasu> :)
[11:56:04] <alex_joni> nice ;)
[11:56:12] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wishes to go ski too...
[12:04:28] <alex_joni> * alex_joni leaves
[12:04:29] <alex_joni> bye
[12:17:52] <paul_c> It would appear that CIA-4 doesn't have it's feed from SF.
[14:28:35] <anonimasu> iab
[14:35:28] <paul_c> Cold ?
[14:44:28] <anonimasu> not very
[14:44:31] <anonimasu> about 5c
[14:51:16] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[14:52:36] <SWPadnos> Hi all
[14:52:56] <anonimasu> hello swp
[14:56:23] <SWPadnos> anonimasu: I thought you were skiing :)
[14:56:32] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: already been skiing
[14:56:44] <SWPadnos> oh - a short-timer
[14:57:09] <anonimasu> yeah
[14:57:10] <anonimasu> :)
[14:57:15] <SWPadnos> (not that I ski,but a lot of friends do - all day :) )
[14:57:19] <anonimasu> the friend I was going to ski with got sick..
[14:57:30] <SWPadnos> that would be a problem
[14:59:29] <anonimasu> yeah
[14:59:43] <anonimasu> but I dont think he wanted it enough..
[15:00:05] <anonimasu> if you arent in bed sleeping you can go ski..
[15:00:32] <SWPadnos> as long as you have a rescue team waiting :)
[15:00:56] <anonimasu> nah it's only a 5 minute drive home
[15:02:59] <anonimasu> I watched some HSM videos today
[15:03:03] <anonimasu> it's so damn sweet
[15:03:22] <SWPadnos> yeah - it's a very cool thing
[15:04:01] <SWPadnos> That site I linked to - they had several photos with captions like "22.4 minutes machining time"
[15:04:17] <SWPadnos> they just forgot to mention how big the items in the photo were :)
[15:04:58] <anonimasu> :)
[15:05:19] <anonimasu> it's very nice..
[15:05:41] <anonimasu> I am going to try crank my rapids up to 3000mm/min
[15:06:16] <SWPadnos> (think think) - around 120 IPM - not bad
[15:06:50] <anonimasu> this machine's pretty small :)
[15:07:19] <SWPadnos> I think I'm going to get 175 IPM from my Bridgeport, but I'm not sure I want the ballscrew spinning that fast.
[15:07:30] <SWPadnos> (or the table moving that fast :) )
[15:07:33] <anonimasu> if I had more table.. I wouldnt care..
[15:07:40] <anonimasu> or well real servodrives & vital card..
[15:07:51] <anonimasu> the limit is how fast emc can crank out pulsess..
[15:07:52] <anonimasu> pulses..
[15:08:00] <anonimasu> and how much the machine will flex..
[15:10:03] <SWPadnos> Well - I don't think I have to worry about machine flex :)
[15:10:23] <SWPadnos> I have a USC for generating step pulses (300K/sec max)
[15:10:40] <SWPadnos> and G320 drives + Baldor 28 in-lb motors
[15:14:10] <anonimasu> :)
[15:15:18] <anonimasu> my screws should handle a fair bit of speed..
[15:15:21] <les> hello all
[15:15:42] <les> ...office day
[15:16:45] <les> I am trying to design a manufacturing process and do cost accounting for the inlayed premium line turkey calls
[15:16:46] <anonimasu> hey les
[15:17:03] <SWPadnos> ugh - accounting - I should be doing that
[15:17:05] <anonimasu> the manufacturer states 100m/min
[15:17:08] <anonimasu> :)
[15:18:00] <SWPadnos> I would be doing accounting, but I think a part of my brain doesn't want to add up all the CNC-related expenses from last year
[15:18:18] <SWPadnos> (and another part definitely doesn't want my wife to see the total :) )
[15:18:20] <les> At least cost accounting isn't so bad
[15:18:26] <SWPadnos> yes
[15:18:38] <les> just figuring how much money to make
[15:18:49] <SWPadnos> that is the positive side :)
[15:19:37] <les> these veneers are very expensive....$4 per ft sq or more
[15:20:08] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[15:20:22] <les> If I laminate them to the plank 90%+ is waste
[15:21:09] <les> But that looks better than having workers glues on shaped pieces
[15:21:16] <les> then labor gets you
[15:21:21] <SWPadnos> As far as I can see, most cnc-related processes probably waste 50-75% of the material
[15:21:28] <les> yes
[15:21:40] <SWPadnos> I think you need to cast, then finish to reduce the waste
[15:21:52] <SWPadnos> (which of course doesn't work so well for wood)
[15:21:57] <anonimasu> cast?
[15:22:01] <anonimasu> cast what?
[15:22:03] <anonimasu> plastic?
[15:22:08] <SWPadnos> make cast metal or plastic pieces
[15:22:12] <SWPadnos> (molding)
[15:22:16] <les> in this case it would be the standard 41"x5x .75 plank
[15:22:22] <SWPadnos> then finish off the things that need to be precise
[15:22:37] <les> We would swamp the market with low cost stuff
[15:23:15] <les> To put things in perspective these inlaid ones would retail for $125 or so
[15:23:27] <SWPadnos> ouch
[15:23:39] <les> So I have to make em for about $25
[15:24:05] <SWPadnos> they're about 2 inches across, right?
[15:24:10] <les> materials are about $3
[15:24:31] <les> they are a 3.75x.73 hockey puck shape
[15:24:51] <SWPadnos> Ok - hard to tell scale from theose photos
[15:25:06] <SWPadnos> (turkey heads vary so much :) )
[15:25:31] <les> So I am at $17 marking up my workers double
[15:25:52] <les> ( I pay worker a dollar , I make two)
[15:26:09] <les> $17 is in the ball park
[15:26:12] <SWPadnos> is your "dealer cost" $25, or is that your cost target?
[15:26:56] <les> That is the cost the customer would pay me for the call
[15:27:12] <SWPadnos> Ah - then $17 is a little high for your cost
[15:27:20] <les> MY cost is coming in at about 6
[15:27:30] <SWPadnos> even better - that's doable :)
[15:27:47] <les> Well the cnc makes the most money
[15:28:08] <SWPadnos> have you accounted for wear / amortization?
[15:28:18] <les> But the rest is people sitting down gluing inly on
[15:28:58] <les> SWPadnos: I just allot $100/hr for the machine to run
[15:29:06] <SWPadnos> that works
[15:29:22] <SWPadnos> (as cost or sale?)
[15:29:44] <les> Althgough I am cheating big time because I am just pretending the machine "magically appeared"
[15:29:50] <les> part cost
[15:30:20] <SWPadnos> I mean - do you count the $100/hour as your cost (to be marked up), or the sale price of machine time?
[15:30:46] <les> Actually the machine took me over a year full time with $20k for parts
[15:30:58] <les> sale price of machine time
[15:31:01] <SWPadnos> Sorry for all the questions, but I'll hopefully be making parts for sale when I get my machine up and running, and I'm curious to hear various methods of accounting for the machine.
[15:31:03] <SWPadnos> OK
[15:31:10] <les> right
[15:31:31] <SWPadnos> I guess I shouldn't feel too bad about adding up my numbers then :)
[15:31:38] <SWPadnos> (I'll be around $6k)
[15:31:47] <les> well $100/hr is pretty conservative....makes my account fill up pretty good
[15:31:56] <les> Let's see
[15:32:08] <SWPadnos> $4k/week = $200k/year, full time
[15:32:15] <les> we are at 3 minutes 10 sec per part
[15:32:17] <SWPadnos> not bad
[15:32:26] <les> and get $5.25
[15:32:47] <SWPadnos> so 1/15 hour (accounting for moving the piece), so $6.67 per part
[15:33:02] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is trying to find out why he's circles are becomming jagged
[15:33:10] <SWPadnos> backlash?
[15:33:15] <anonimasu> nope..
[15:33:20] <SWPadnos> dull cutter?
[15:33:26] <les> $99.68 per hour.
[15:33:31] <anonimasu> I think it's my cam program that generates segments..
[15:33:35] <anonimasu> too few..
[15:33:39] <anonimasu> or somthing like that..
[15:33:51] <SWPadnos> well - crank up da resolution :)
[15:34:36] <anonimasu> yeah
[15:34:56] <anonimasu> I need to try that..
[15:35:12] <SWPadnos> hi rayh
[15:35:20] <anonimasu> I dont think I get jagged edges.. when doing a arc..
[15:35:26] <SWPadnos> did you ever get a chance to see one of the configurators run?
[15:35:39] <anonimasu> what?
[15:35:43] <rayh> Hey. How you doing today.
[15:35:51] <SWPadnos> pretty well
[15:35:53] <les> anon: that's the old traj planner problem
[15:35:58] <les> hi ray
[15:36:00] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos is avoiding accounting
[15:36:05] <anonimasu> les: how do I get rid of it?
[15:36:07] <rayh> I got bit all round.
[15:36:20] <SWPadnos> playing with bees?
[15:36:21] <les> anon: segmentqueue
[15:36:32] <les> or use g2/3
[15:36:37] <anonimasu> les: does it work reliably?
[15:36:42] <rayh> Finished adding the tk dev stuff.
[15:36:54] <les> I am told the stepper version does
[15:36:55] <rayh> So I could compile a kernel
[15:37:05] <anonimasu> I dont think segmentqueue compiles on my box..
[15:37:07] <les> I will be testing the servo version soon
[15:37:22] <les> hmm
[15:37:27] <anonimasu> it says it's compiled for another ver of the kernel...
[15:37:32] <les> talk to Chris
[15:37:46] <anonimasu> chris?
[15:37:52] <les> cradek
[15:37:55] <anonimasu> ah
[15:38:38] <les> Also Robin is running it
[15:38:49] <les> stepper
[15:39:00] <les> They say it works fine
[15:39:01] <anonimasu> hm, I hope somone's here later..
[15:39:07] <anonimasu> I would like to try it..
[15:39:13] <robin_sz> meep!
[15:39:20] <anonimasu> hey..
[15:39:22] <les> ha
[15:39:28] <anonimasu> 16:44 < anonimasu> ah
[15:39:28] <anonimasu> 16:45 < les> Also Robin is running it
[15:39:28] <anonimasu> 16:45 < les> stepper
[15:39:29] <anonimasu> 16:46 < les> They say it works fine
[15:39:31] <les> just talking about you
[15:39:35] <robin_sz> :)
[15:39:42] <anonimasu> speaking of the devil ;)
[15:39:44] <robin_sz> yeah. steppersegmod?
[15:40:00] <les> you are using segmentqueue with steppers right Robin?
[15:40:12] <robin_sz> correct. on a test setup anyway
[15:40:17] <les> and?
[15:40:18] <cradek> anonimasu: do you get an error?
[15:40:18] <rayh> SWPadnos: I can run make config in /usr/src/linux. Does that help?
[15:40:21] <anonimasu> yes
[15:40:29] <robin_sz> and it seems fine
[15:40:36] <anonimasu> it tells me that it's compiled for a incorrect version of the kernel..
[15:40:42] <cradek> I mean when you compile
[15:40:56] <anonimasu> oh when I try to run it
[15:40:58] <SWPadnos> no - it doesn't help, but if that works, then you have a program to try the config stuff with
[15:41:04] <robin_sz> I ran it pretty much 24hrs solid with brief stops to G0 X0 Y0 and it seemed not to lose a step
[15:41:19] <anonimasu> robin_sz: if you have time later could you help me out with getting it to work?
[15:41:25] <SWPadnos> you have to be careful because the config programs always want to read and write a .config in the current directory
[15:41:34] <anonimasu> I need to leave a bit for some education on the company
[15:41:56] <rayh> It ran that config in scripts/kconfig/conf arch/i386/Kconfig
[15:42:17] <robin_sz> anonimasu: I had to have help compiling because I;d forgotten the magic chants, but it was the usual build from cvs source and it "just worked"
[15:42:18] <les> Robin: cool
[15:42:28] <anonimasu> hm.. ok :/
[15:42:31] <SWPadnos> what did you type and from what directory?
[15:42:37] <anonimasu> I'll be back later.
[15:42:38] <robin_sz> I'm just waiting for the new G2002X to arrive now :)
[15:42:52] <rayh> I'm in /usr/src/linux.
[15:42:53] <robin_sz> les: seen the G2002X pictures and announcement?
[15:42:54] <SWPadnos> sorry - I shuold have more coffee before answering questions :)
[15:43:12] <les> I am costing up the inlayed "premium " turkey call product
[15:43:14] <SWPadnos> you do have to run make config in /usr/src/linux to build the config program
[15:43:44] <rayh> Through to completion?
[15:43:48] <SWPadnos> but then you run the program from within the emc2 directory, after copying to those locations in the instructions
[15:44:02] <SWPadnos> you can just wait until the menu comes up, then exit and don't save
[15:44:04] <robin_sz> les: rabbit driving and fpga, 16 IO, 4 analogue in, 4 analogue out, 6 axes of stepper, 6 channels of encoder inputs ...
[15:44:06] <rayh> Okay. I think I've got it.
[15:44:28] <SWPadnos> you probably want make menuconfig at least, but that requires ncurses
[15:44:29] <rayh> This config is pure text mode.
[15:44:38] <rayh> Should I go get ncurses?
[15:44:48] <robin_sz> get nurses
[15:44:51] <robin_sz> more fun
[15:44:54] <SWPadnos> I think so - it's not that big
[15:44:57] <SWPadnos> get ncurses nurses
[15:45:13] <les> Robin: Oh...and waiting for a call from Bruce out in Wash state....he is trying to get me TWO Perske 7.5 kWspindles
[15:45:23] <robin_sz> mmm nice!
[15:45:41] <les> Both with bad bearings...but almost free
[15:45:42] <robin_sz> hey, I just got word that I'll be visiting Washington this time next year
[15:45:51] <les> like a couple hundred
[15:46:04] <robin_sz> having an overseas auction, so we go on tour :)
[15:46:09] <les> ah
[15:46:38] <les> If I had those spindles I could get a life back
[15:46:46] <robin_sz> yeah right ;)
[15:46:57] <les> Instead of being a machine operator all the time
[15:47:06] <rayh> I've got ncurses base, bin, and term installed.
[15:47:15] <rayh> Looks like I need to adjust the path.
[15:47:39] <SWPadnos> Ok - great
[15:47:57] <rayh> robin_sz: We just need to get you a stay over and a code fest during that visit.
[15:47:58] <robin_sz> les: you need to palletise the material too, to really build on the machine efficientcy, or you'll just find that it machines thenm quick and you send ages unloading
[15:48:06] <SWPadnos> I think Qt is there as well, but it's just a path issue -I can't remember the order I did things though, so I'm probably wrong about that :)
[15:48:16] <robin_sz> rayh: yeah, stay over will be easy to arrange
[15:48:19] <les> Robin: I wonder if bearing replacement is a big deal...the rebuilders say you must re dynamically balance them
[15:48:25] <les> I don't see why
[15:48:42] <robin_sz> les: me neither... a bearing is a bearing
[15:48:56] <robin_sz> les: if I was rebuilding spindles, Id tell you that too
[15:49:08] <les> and changes in moment of inertia would be vanishingly small
[15:49:14] <les> heh
[15:49:58] <rayh> libqt3c102-mt is there.
[15:50:23] <SWPadnos> Hmmm.
[15:51:49] <SWPadnos> well - qt3-dev-tools(blahblah).deb is a 1.2M file, but I'm not sure what else would be needed.
[15:52:03] <SWPadnos> you could try apt-get install qt3-dev-tools, and see what it says
[15:58:22] <rayh> on the way.
[15:59:10] <SWPadnos> cool.
[15:59:41] <SWPadnos> I burned a CD with my package cache, I'll send that out to you with the BDI-4.18 - hopefully today
[16:03:07] <rayh> Hey thanks a bunch.
[16:03:30] <SWPadnos> no problem (I just have to get out of the house before the post office closes :) )
[16:03:49] <rayh> 1.309 total.
[16:04:13] <rayh> I know that feeling. Sometimes here it is with snow shoes.
[16:04:18] <SWPadnos> not bad. I think you'll like qconf a lot better - it's much closer to what has been discussed for tilly_config
[16:05:30] <rayh> k
[16:05:38] <SWPadnos> The great thing about this system (other than getting it to work in the first place) is that there are several user interface programs for it already
[16:05:54] <rayh> ui?
[16:06:05] <SWPadnos> I think a little work on libkconfig can add things like float sand such
[16:06:17] <SWPadnos> yes - UI programs to present configuration options
[16:06:35] <rayh> Ah.
[16:06:55] <rayh> And the user interface to it is variable?
[16:07:14] <SWPadnos> yes: config is text-mode question/answer
[16:07:23] <SWPadnos> menuconfig is text mode menu system
[16:07:33] <rayh> Okay. I get the idea.
[16:07:46] <SWPadnos> gconfig and qconfig are X apps, using either the GTK or QT widgets
[16:08:14] <rayh> We could modify qconfig to meet our special tillie needs and use the same underlying data set.
[16:08:36] <SWPadnos> qconfig doesn't change (except to add the float data type)
[16:09:11] <SWPadnos> except for the outputs - but there can also be a script that takes the output of qconfig as it sits, and convert it to ini format
[16:09:15] <rayh> Got the qt3 tools
[16:09:18] <SWPadnos> cool
[16:09:33] <SWPadnos> see if make xconfig works in your /usr/src/linux dir
[16:11:20] <websys> Good morning Ray - what are trying to build with qt?
[16:15:15] <rayh> An EMC configuration script using the kbuild kconfig setup that the kernel uses.
[16:15:25] <rayh> How you doing today, Bob.
[16:15:51] <rayh> SWPadnos: Still complains about not having the develop stuff for qt.
[16:15:59] <SWPadnos> bummer
[16:16:18] <websys> I did the Synergy interface in qt so I might be able to help
[16:16:34] <rayh> websys: I forgot that you are a qt guru.
[16:17:10] <websys> yuo did apt-get install qt3-dev-tools?
[16:17:54] <websys> and apt-get install libqt3-dev ?
[16:18:56] <paul_c> libqt3-mt-dev
[16:19:21] <Jymmm> Mountain Dew
[16:19:50] <Jymmm> thats how i read that =)
[16:21:19] <rayh> 9514kB Those will dribble in over the next couple hours.
[16:21:52] <rayh> If I close out other net stuff.
[16:22:18] <SWPadnos> you need DSL :)
[16:22:42] <websys> Where ray lives prob satellite is the only way
[16:23:00] <SWPadnos> IP over carrier pigeon :)
[16:23:19] <websys> IP via smoke signals is more like it
[16:23:35] <rayh> When I was a kid I got a five mile roll of mil surplus wire --
[16:23:36] <Jymmm> rayh so, where you be in the world?
[16:24:07] <SWPadnos> stop talking - we're using up all his bandwidth :)
[16:24:10] <rayh> U.P. Michigan. Map search for crystal falls MI will get you close enough.
[16:24:16] <websys> well the edge of the world is only a few miles from his house
[16:24:58] <rayh> Even sat may be to close to the horizon...
[16:25:07] <websys> ;)
[16:25:18] <SWPadnos> T1 at $500-$1500/month
[16:25:40] <rayh> And a 12 mile installation.
[16:26:11] <SWPadnos> at only $1.50/foot
[16:26:36] <websys> and that would only give him a T-1 connection
[16:26:51] <Jymmm> what about microwave?
[16:26:53] <SWPadnos> 1.544 mbits/s isn't too bad
[16:27:02] <rayh> There is a mega fiber burrial about 12 miles. Just no off/on ramp.
[16:27:19] <rayh> Saw a 2B/s a bit ago.
[16:27:41] <SWPadnos> well - I have wire cutters ...
[16:27:45] <SWPadnos> and crimpers
[16:27:48] <Jymmm> rayh what about microwave?
[16:27:53] <websys> gotta fump that 300 baud modem ray
[16:28:02] <websys> dump
[16:28:18] <Jymmm> websys d) all the above
[16:28:42] <Jymmm> rayh: http://www.dslreports.com/prequal
[16:28:42] <rayh> I talked with my isp. It is line-of-sight from a little brick building of theirs to a point +50 feet above my house.
[16:29:14] <SWPadnos> well - you've always wanted a windmill ... :)
[16:29:20] <Jymmm> rayh: Um, how big is your lot =)
[16:30:01] <Jymmm> http://www.ustower.com/
[16:30:29] <rayh> 2.3 Acres
[16:31:27] <Jymmm> rayh: There ya go.... toss up a tower
[16:32:22] <websys> You could build the Eifel tower with one leg on each corner of the lot
[16:33:19] <Jymmm> rayh: If you dont want to go the tower route, you could do a pushup on the roof, but at that height it may sway a bit.
[16:33:30] <rayh> My kid used to do some cleaver stuff with weather balloons and ham gear.
[16:34:22] <Jymmm> rayh: Hey, how about making a deal with the isp, you toss up a tower and they can use it to rebroadcast out.
[16:34:46] <rayh> no such address is the report from dsl...
[16:35:19] <rayh> Sat is about 55 a month.
[16:37:48] <rayh> I looked over the kconfig file and that seems plain enough.
[16:37:58] <SWPadnos> it's a pretty easy format
[16:38:15] <rayh> How about handling variables with a range of values.
[16:38:20] <les> How far are you from a telephone exchange ray?
[16:38:44] <SWPadnos> the neat thing is (once you have a UI program :) ) that in the example, unless you select PPMC as the I/O driver, the config menu for PPMC doesn't appear
[16:39:46] <rayh> Right.
[16:40:27] <rayh> * rayh scratches his head trying to remember.
[16:40:53] <Jymmm> rayh: area code and prefix?
[16:40:56] <rayh> My ISP is also a phone company though not the local one.
[16:40:58] <SWPadnos> I don't know if there is an enum type - that may be have to be done by having a sumbenu with exclusive choices
[16:41:16] <rayh> I believe that their brick building has some exchange ability.
[16:41:21] <SWPadnos> (like parport = 0x378 / 0x278 / 0x3bc )
[16:41:43] <rayh> SBC is is alpha about 12 miles. They manage the fiber their also.
[16:42:26] <QwerTy> hi all
[16:42:33] <Jymmm> rayh: you have SBC? Is there fiber in your area yet?
[16:42:45] <rayh> 12 miles.
[16:43:22] <les> I get pretty fast dsl 15000 feet from exchange
[16:43:47] <Jymmm> les: 15K is about the limit.
[16:43:49] <SWPadnos> funny - DSL was supposed to hve a 7.68Mbps option - I've never seen it
[16:43:59] <SWPadnos> (18k, like ISDN, I thought)
[16:44:15] <Jymmm> I'm 21K feet out, so my dsl is on fiber.
[16:44:33] <websys> I'm running the 768K optionDSL here
[16:44:56] <SWPadnos> I'm just waiting for Verizon to get their FTTH offering out of beta - 40Mb/sec
[16:45:00] <les> I don't even know how fast I am at the moment
[16:45:05] <rayh> I got spoiled by the 1/2T1 at smithy.
[16:45:09] <les> hmm what could I use to test
[16:45:17] <SWPadnos> http://www.2wire.com/
[16:45:22] <SWPadnos> go to speed meter
[16:45:22] <les> tx
[16:45:24] <Jymmm> les : http://www.dslreports.com/tools
[16:45:30] <SteveStallings> At one time Verizon guaranteed "ISDN anywhere" and would install the repeates as required. They dropped that about 2 years ago as DSL took off.
[16:46:34] <SWPadnos> Yeah. In Vermont, there was a special deal giving Adelphia monopoly on cable, with the provision that they have broadband available to everyone in the state within like 3 or 4 years
[16:46:35] <rayh> * rayh kneads bread and the link needs a rest or qt will never arrive.
[16:47:00] <SWPadnos> it's been qround 8 years now, and still no cable for 1/2 the state
[16:47:06] <SWPadnos> around
[16:48:34] <Jymmm> ROTFLMAO... (spam) Subject: You need to sonside investing in Homeland Security
[16:48:38] <les> 1209k down 311k up for me
[16:49:11] <les> and I pay $30 / mo for that.
[16:49:50] <Jymmm> les SBC ?
[16:50:36] <les> Alltel...the local telephone company
[16:51:52] <Jymmm> Oh, yesterday I got my hands on a dead copier and ripped it apart. Shitloads of motors, but only one nema stepper on the whole machine.
[16:52:08] <Jymmm> les: ah, ok.
[16:52:11] <les> 17?
[16:52:42] <Jymmm> I think it's 23 actually
[16:53:07] <Jymmm> I meant usable for cnc purposes
[16:53:29] <SteveStallings> Check the coil resistance. Best if it is 2 ohms or less.
[16:54:02] <Jymmm> OH OH OH.. The w3irdest thing...... They used at the best I coudl describe it "cable screw"
[16:54:50] <Jymmm> It was a ss cable that was coiled with another wire to form a "thread". The weiredest thing I ever saw
[16:55:28] <Jymmm> actually it was the only plastic gear I saved.
[16:55:41] <Jymmm> SteveStallings: will do.
[17:12:28] <robin_sz> I noticed they were offering 4mb ADSL in london for 15 GBP/mo
[17:12:45] <robin_sz> its 25 for 0.5mb out here in the sticks
[17:13:32] <Jymmm> robin_sz: sucks when they do that.
[17:13:51] <SWPadnos> It's pretty funny that it's easier to get high speed internet in Japan or South Korea (the world leader) than in the western world
[17:14:52] <Jymmm> .jp really? I'm surprised they have such a good wired infastructure
[17:15:21] <SWPadnos> you can get 100mbit in Japan for around the same as we pay for DSL ($30-$50/mo)
[17:16:21] <Jymmm> eeeesh
[17:17:25] <Jymmm> Oh he left... if I'm not around someone tell rayh to check out wireless (celluar) data services. Soemtimes they have flat rate for data alone.
[17:18:14] <Jymmm> it's only 128, but better than 56K.
[17:18:29] <Jymmm> some of them are offering 512K
[17:19:22] <SWPadnos> if he can get a cell signal at his his house...
[17:27:35] <les> Trying to buy stuff with paypal
[17:27:39] <les> never used it
[17:27:48] <les> hope it is reliable
[17:28:02] <Jymmm> les: define reliable?
[17:28:15] <les> secure
[17:28:41] <Jymmm> they do a good job of that.
[17:28:59] <les> ordering ten foot sheets of veneer
[17:29:10] <les> how in the world is that shipped?
[17:29:18] <SWPadnos> what thickness veneer?
[17:29:23] <Jymmm> les: coiled =)
[17:29:27] <les> .03"
[17:29:51] <les> would need about 1 ft radius to coil
[17:30:20] <les> hmm shipping an empty box mostly I guess
[17:30:27] <Jymmm> les: 2" coil
[17:30:35] <les> haha
[17:30:37] <Jymmm> fits in a blueprint tube
[17:30:54] <les> oh the other way
[17:30:56] <Jymmm> les: can you say "presto logs"
[17:30:59] <les> 10 foot tube?
[17:31:36] <Jymmm> 2' tube 3" diamtere
[17:32:59] <Jymmm> rayh is screwed.... not even celluar coverage out there (except alltel)
[17:33:05] <les> I have gotten many things from MSC where the package cost more than the contents
[17:33:20] <Jymmm> les: dont ya hate that!
[17:34:47] <les> Ray just has to spring for satellite
[17:35:24] <Jymmm> just latency though. If he was in the middle of Africa, ok I understand.
[17:35:47] <les> Alltel gives you 1200k for $30 and 3000k for $50....so sat at 50 would be ok for him
[17:36:22] <les> I think it's real fast
[17:36:36] <les> 3000k or more
[17:37:39] <les> half the $50 could be recovered by removing a phone line perhaps
[17:38:10] <les> so total $10 more than dialup?
[17:38:33] <les> 100 times the speed?
[17:39:30] <les> "course he will have to climb up and clean off the snow from the dish every day ;)
[17:40:54] <Jymmm> CNC Antenna Snow remover
[17:41:02] <les> heh
[17:41:52] <Jymmm> I'd toss a heating element on the antenns
[17:42:11] <SWPadnos> just increase the microwave POWER! :)
[17:42:37] <Jymmm> duh, why didn't I think of that
[17:42:50] <SWPadnos> Mr. RF
[17:43:04] <les> Actually my tv dish is a very reliable indicator of hail
[17:43:11] <Jymmm> Oh yeah... I'm licensed and I CANT do that!
[17:43:24] <les> If it goes I know a big storm is coming from the southwest
[17:43:33] <SWPadnos> heh - got to do it as an "experimental device" :)
[17:43:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Not with that damn FCC-ID number on the box I can't =(
[17:44:06] <SWPadnos> get a Sharpie
[17:44:11] <Jymmm> lol
[17:44:19] <Jymmm> more like a sawsall
[17:44:46] <Jymmm> THEN it'll be experimental =)
[17:45:00] <SWPadnos> well - don't sell them, but you can make modifications to your own unit. (though the power limits are far below what's needed to melt snow)
[17:45:30] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: only if I'm within my licensed bandplan.
[17:45:46] <Jymmm> or is public band
[17:45:55] <les> That air powered fluidic generator I have to do will kinda be like designing cavity magnetrons
[17:45:56] <Jymmm> no take that last part back
[17:46:32] <les> few mm wavelength
[17:46:39] <SWPadnos> 2.45 GHz is unlicensed, but the max power is like 1W, right? (or is that only for spread spectrum?)
[17:46:58] <Jymmm> les: http://www.geocities.com/aaawelder/70amp.html
[17:47:07] <les> looking
[17:47:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I think < 500mW
[17:47:51] <SWPadnos> well - my microwave oven begs to differ
[17:50:13] <Jymmm> You know... xfmrs are the only component I REALLY hate dealing with.... They never have any marking on them, I mean come on how hard is it to put a sticker on a xfmr. and two, to buy a bare xfmr will cost a fortune, but you can buy a microwave or battery charger for 1/5 of the cost of the xfmr alone.
[17:50:32] <Jymmm> and strip it out.
[17:51:15] <les> I just use surplus 240/120 stepdowns
[17:51:24] <les> run at 120/60
[17:51:33] <les> about 60% rating
[17:51:44] <SWPadnos> get a plug-in 220-110 (or 110-220) converter, and use that. It'll be a 2:1 transformer with plenty of VA rating
[17:51:58] <SWPadnos> what he said
[17:52:40] <Jymmm> I meant in general... 110vac to 12@1a will run ya $8
[17:52:41] <les> used at the lower voltage core losses are very low so you get a little more than half
[17:53:22] <Jymmm> one of these days I'll look at microwave xfmrs, wonder what that would do
[17:53:36] <les> 60* 1.414-two drops = 84v
[17:53:37] <Jymmm> 110 input to the secondaries
[17:53:46] <les> perfect for a 90v servo amp
[17:54:06] <Jymmm> les the stepdown or microwave?
[17:54:13] <SWPadnos> les: funy that - most people on the CCED list (incorrectly) subtract the diode drops, then multiply by 1.41
[17:54:15] <les> stepdown
[17:54:19] <les> they are cheap
[17:54:31] <les> not as cheap as microwave
[17:54:58] <les> but the 36v is a bit of a problem with them (for servo amps)
[17:55:34] <Jymmm> 60volts * P2P ?
[17:55:38] <Jymmm> P-P
[17:55:40] <SWPadnos> hay rayh - downloads finished?
[17:55:50] <Jymmm> oh steppers surge, nm.
[17:56:20] <rayh> SWPadnos: gconf is great. I looked at the Kconfig file in emc2 and it works some.
[17:56:28] <SWPadnos> cool
[17:56:43] <rayh> The next question is handling floats and ranges.
[17:56:44] <SWPadnos> I like qconf a bit better - it seems to have better polish
[17:56:53] <SWPadnos> ranges are in there
[17:56:54] <rayh> The the addition of images to help.
[17:57:14] <rayh> Good. I'll mess with it a bit and see what comes up.
[17:57:16] <SWPadnos> help is a text area, it might be possible to make it html-ized
[17:57:34] <rayh> That would do it.
[17:57:48] <les> subtracting the drop first is correct
[17:58:04] <rayh> What about formule for things like max vel and period and such.
[17:58:09] <SWPadnos> you have the documentation file referenced in Kconfig, right? (/usr/src/linux/Documentation/kbuild/kconfig-language.txt)
[17:58:15] <Jymmm> rayh we found a solution for your internet woes.... It'll require the use of 34 gophers, 50 miles of zipcord, and tequilia
[17:58:55] <rayh> No problem with the last of those. Gophers will have to wait for thaw.
[17:59:30] <Jymmm> rayh: Nah, we fit them with heated dentures
[17:59:51] <Jymmm> rayh: ok, add to the list 400 lbs of coal
[17:59:59] <les> hmm thinking how that works heh
[18:00:20] <les> take the coal, gophers, and zipcord and ignoreit....
[18:00:33] <les> then sell the tequila and get sat dish?
[18:01:19] <Jymmm> no no no you can't sell the tequilia, you could sell the gophers though.
[18:02:02] <SWPadnos> sell the tequila, but deliver the coal
[18:02:20] <les> heh
[18:02:48] <Jymmm> Heh, the emergency bottle of tequilia above my desk is slowly evaporating for the last three years =)