umm... had ribs on thursday with this girl, and my little sister. they had 4, and I had like 6 bigs... soo good.
hmm... I a little delayed.
cause my screen was scrolled up, and I didn't notice.
A-L-P-H-A: did you get the tach code running?
I'm just working on it now.
but I think i'm making small progress.
GOOD - i'LL NOT BUG YOU ABOUT IT.
Sorry - capslock error :)
I w@5 7yp1Ng L1K3 a keWl Ka7!
stupid bots, spamming my blog.
horray for my awesome spam protection on the website.
any EMC vets here?
anyone? hneed help with ini file.
hi, doesn't look like it. I can't help cause i don't know. !!
if you stick around, someone will answer. just make take a few hours... as most people are sleeping now.
lots of them are in europe.
SWPadnos, this is what I got so far. http://www.pastebin.com/247712
but I'm off to sleep, got somewhere to possibly go tomorrow. possibly... :/ some entrance exam. bah. jokes.
right - I'll take a look sometime
well got the machine and software to show same size scale when jogging, but when i go to cut it still cuts tiny like its out of scale still, but numbers show right on screen.
is it roughlt 0.04x scale?
yea i think so
then there's an inch/metric problem somewhere
i have all three axis set at 5200
oh in the ini file?
Unfortunately, I'm not an emc veterinarian :)
hmmmmm.... in the prog. possion type shows inches.
look at the RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE, and see if it's got G20 or G21 in it
also look at your G-code file for G20 and G21
nope g00 then all the g01's
OK - the .ini file may have a G21 in it (RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE)
The manual says G20=inches, and G21=mm, but there was some discussion recently that it might be the other way around
ok in the ini it is startup = g20
well - that sounds right. you have a 13TPI screw and steppers, right?
(thanks :) )OK - and what type of stepper driver are you using, and any reduction?
(full, half, 10-microstep, etc)
no straight drive with 1/2 steop on controlor
are you using Freqmod?
do not know what that is
there should be a line in the ini file like "EMCMOT = freqmod.o"
do you have special hardware or are the stepper drivers attached to the parallel port?
OK - hobbycnc breakout connected to the parallel port?
OK - just check a couple of things in the .ini file:
first, make sure that LINEAR_UNITS in the [TRAJ] section is set to 0.03937007874016
yes all three places.
and in general place above
second, make sure that each axis has the same number for both INPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_SCALE
(they must, or you'd get following errors - nevermind)
yes they are all 5200, except two are -5200
two on the same axis, I assume
what display ar eyou running (tkemc / mini, etc.)?
ok - hold on one sec
I'm not very familiar with the different display programs - I wanted to run it
i changed it to mini instead of tkemc
tkemc looks a bit cluttered, biut has more stuff available it seems
i like the plot display in mini
dont know about tkemc
when Axis gets a bit better, it'll be very nice - I had a crash with it though.
well - I may have screwed up some settings - I'm not seeing any feedback from my motor - hold on
right - I had to reinstall BDI today due to a hard disc problem, and I never set up my ini file.
I should have known better - the drive had been pulled from a different machine because of problems
there we go - 40000 steps per inch - much better :)
for your tpi?
I have a 4000 PPR encoder on a servo, 2:1 reduction, and 5TPI ballscrews, so I get 40,000 steps per ich
Good movie --> http://www.hbo.com/films/stlm/
well joe2000chevy, I'm not sure I can help you. I'm sure it's an inch/metric problem, but I'm not sure where to look for it.
ok i will have to just wait i guess.
actually - try MDI mode, and enter G21
ok just a sec.
the axis positions should change to a larger number
still having .3 -vs- 1" problems?
looks that way
ok, how about doing it backwards?
then it would be mirror image, 1/3 size :)
where is mdi?
not inverse, backwards... a la reverse engineering it.
can we back any effective changes at all?
good question - I clicked a button for it, now I see no way of getting rid of it...
ah - the big buttons at the top (duh) MANUAL / AUTO / MDI (then CONTINUE / ABORT / ESTOP)
joe2000chevy: if your in the middle of something carry on, but if you move 2" on the screen, how far does the the head move?
the display shows the correct number of inches (based on the G-code), but the machine moves much less
SWPadnos: ok, cool.
but 2" on screen should mean .6 on the head.
in what world?
if not, then we have a reference to compensate by.
I love the ability to fiddle with EMC on my windows machine - it's so cool
how do you compensate it?
joe2000chevy: First you have to verify it silly =)
one more question before I give up (or think of another one :) )
what stepper drivers are you using?
well that seems to be whats paening.
Jymmm: the calculations for OUTPUT_SCALE look correct
13 TPI screw, 1/2 step stepper drive, direct couple to 13 TPI screw
joe2000chevy was that in response to my question?
and one in on screen abd one inch on machine in jog
joe2000chevy: actually, what stepper motors and what drivers are you using?
hp laser jet steppers.
they work in mach2 fine.
5.2v 1.4a 100oz/in
drivers? u mean board?
yes - the board that the motors connect to
hobby cnc board
* Jymmm connects his motors to a Turbo 400
OK - 4AUPC board
yea but three axis
joe2000chevy: Did you check what I asked?
yes, it cuts small?
joe2000chevy: how far did the head move?
joe2000chevy" If you move it 2" on the screen, how far did the head move?
i move it with arrow keys
So, if you move it 2" on the screen, the head moves 2" as well?
yes? no? maybe?
ok, then whats the problem?
the machine matches the screen... but when i plot it is small
* Jymmm sighs
wait a minute - have you been talking about the plot this whole time :)
joe2000chevy: then plot it 2" and see how far the head moves
you keep saying plot? you mean move it in jog?
hold on - there are 4 things going on here
joe2000chevy: No YOU keep saying plot
1) G-code programs
2) manual jog
3) what the machine actually does
4) backplot (the picture in mini)
and 5) the axis display
(X Y Z coordinates)
manual jog in one inch, screen in one inch, g-code running is tinny, not the actual numbers on screen
G-code running meaning the machine cutter actually moves less than programmed?
OK - so if you jog 2", the machine moves less than 2"
even though the coordinate display says 2"
no it moves 2"
coords match movement in jog
but when i execute a gcode it cuts like .25% of actual size, but on screen its ok.
so when running a G-Code program, the machine physically moves less than the programmed amount
but the coordinate display shows the expected distance
yes, you can see it in the gcode as it proccesses
is the display set for actual or commanded position display?
screen matches gcode at that time, but then the machine cuts smaller
and relative possition
relative - if you go to MDI mode, does it show G90 or G91 in the list of active modes?
does it think it's in metric?
is in list below MDI line
G90 is absolute mode
let's see inch programming g20, metric g21
25% of actual size
g20 in ini file
so G-code will be trying to move to absolute positions, and the display is showing relative position?
(4% of actual size - 1/25)
just for kicks, set the coordinate display to actual / machine position
then make a G-code file to make a square 10 inches on a side
how? i do not know gcode, i totally new.
(G20 G91 / G01X+10F1 / G01Y+10 / G01X-10 / G01Y-10)
Ther emay need to be some start/end M-codes in there - anyone ?
m30 at the very end
the slashes represent new lines
and the parentheses shouldn't be there
by the way - how much travel do you have on this machine? (in X and Y)
OK - just want to make sure we won't hit anything important :)
in moving the router now to a 0
you man my laptop im chatting on? lol
yeah - or your lap :)
do you have the scaling correct for the axis movement?
ok ready to run now
the calculations look right
linier move 2 out of range
if you home the machine (both X and Y), thenyou can change the G91 to G90 and run it again.
you'll want to measure the actual machine travel this program does.
ok just a sec
y is table right?
x and z is gantry
x left to right
y away from you and towards you
z up and down
it's a gantry router - it could be any way he made it :)
depending on where you're standing ;)
ok both g90 and 91 gave the same error
sorry - that would happen in absolute mode.
change the G01 lines like this: G01X0Y0F1 / G01X10Y0 / G01X10Y10 / G01X0Y10 / G01X0Y0
the minus signs are bad in absolute mode
maybe I should have said F10 :)
lin move 3 out of range
how about doing 2" moves instead of 10"?
and with a faster feedrate ;)
out of range...maybe the soft limits are set small in the ini file
I'm thinking that. the original problem is weird though
so the actual movement was smaller than what the control seemed to indicate it was doing?
yes, but I think there's some difference between jogging and running G-code.
and the hardware is likely fine, since it works with Mach2
and 3 peoplw have checked the OUTPUT_SCALE ;)
ok with that it seems to run to scale, wierd
it ran ok w/ the program at 2"?
the control might not default to g20 otherwise?
i changed to F10 not F1
try the same program and leave out the g20
after you home it
how do you tell it to home?
I don't know - I was just filling in information for the masters :)
I never used mini
you need to jog the table to a safe spot that looks like it's in the middle
then there should be some way of resetting each axis to think that it's homed
ok ran without g20 and its ok.
I used to have things set up in my shop a over a year ago. Haven't quite got the shop up and running again.
if the program is saved, exit, rerun emc, then load and run the program again
unless there are other suggestions...
sounds good to me
sorry, I don't have my EMC box turned on at the moment. Typing from my mac
get an X client :)
(I'm viewing EMC on my windows machine right now)
yes I do have one. The linux box is just turned off right now and I'm headed to bed in a minute
well - that's a different story
yeah - I was pretty jazzed when I got that working
It's great isn't it.
It seems like X opens up a whole new world
I run linux apps on this mac
yes. now all I need to do is get the machine put together, and stop turning the motor by hand to see the coordinates change :)
I need to go. I'll chat with you tomorrow.
ok restarting program now.
but the cut i tried earlier works now..
that's good. (sort of)
you mean the cut from the longer G-code program you tried before?
yes it worked
Well - run all your parts tonight, then restart the machine :)
save a copy of the ini file
im just starting this machine, just finished building it.
I meant the computer :)
ok it worked.
cool. danfalck mentioned that the axis soft limits may be set very low - I think those are the MIN_LIMIT and MAX_LIMIT in each AXIS section of the ini file
ok i will look now
-10 and 10
all three axis
I think those are supposed to be the extent of travel of the machine, so that would be a 20 inch travel, with zero in the middle of the machine bed
you should check that though - I'm not an expert on the ini file and its inner workings
ok i will gork on it somemore tommarrow....
yes - I'm tired as well. I think I'll sign off now.
SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
it's only midnight.
hehe, I begin working soon..
* anonimasu yawns
better you than me =)
today is a good day
that's always a good thing =)
I'll be back later..
need to leave for work now
thanks for the warning =)
Enjoy your day, I'll be outter here for the night
I'll be there for a bit then I need to mill some stuff
it's 3:18am here
* anonimasu is looking at toolchangers
toolchangers are sweet... but I don't do production runs, so I cannot justify the cost.
I just need to change my er30 to a toolchanger..
I have I think an er20, or was it an er25, or was it a er30. I can't remember now.
that tool collet system is nice though
er30 is too small..
well... mine holds up to 1"
but I cant fit a retainer knob..
retainer for what?
and a drawbar easily
ER isn't going to be meant for that.
you'd need like a cat system. :)
ER as in emergency room
A-L-P-H-A: that's like saying your mill isnt made for cnc get another one..
yes Jymmm. like the emergency room.
ok, glad I got that clarified....... NOT!
anonimasu, heh. I don't know how you would use an ER system to do this. Wait... my system might be an ECO20, or ECO25, not ER.
A-L-P-H-A: I was thinking about a toolchanging robot...
EOC? ECO? ER?
and a pneumatic drawbar..
damn it... I can't remember.
someone made a toolchanger for their taig sized minimill. It was pretty sweet.
they had a video of it an all.
it was on CCED months and months ago.
I think a video is in the files...
CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO yahoo group.
many of the people are in the chan.
I'm still a member, but I don't bother with the emails... tooo many that I don't read.
it's more for people that build things, and are starting up. ONce you're done, there's not other information you can get from them. They don't like general inqueries on there.... and there is no chitchat either.
maybe like troubleshooting or something... dunno.
maybe I'll check it out tomorrow.
I'm outta here
* anonimasu is shopping for electronics
but I dont know what to get
get the big shiny things
look for a rating on the back.
W is good, kW is better ... go for the biggest number you can.
so I could get KW stuff ;)
[11:11:33] <anonimasu> http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/dyndok.pl?dok=283126.htm
I'll be getting 2 of the model 4
a got to engrave namesigns for everyone at work...
yeah, but I need to build a engraving mill holder..
normally, you use a a 'floating nose-cone' holder
a spring loaded one..
hm, how do thoose work/look
the nose cone rests on the edge of the un-cut material
the cutter is 0.5mm deeper
so, you program is always cutting next to some uncut material
so the detpth is always 0.5mm ...
its like a plastic surround about the cutter
wait .. i find :)
I like the ballscrews in my maching catalogue..
0.01 repetability over 3dm..
and they are pretty cheapp
tricky to find a picture
imagine a 5mm nylon rod with a 2.5mm hole up the middle
cutter sticks out
I found it in my catalogue :9
the trick is .
but I dont know how to make the cutter float..
if you are cutting an area
to start from the middle and work out :)
just an air ram and slide will be fine
it just rests on th material when in use
hm I think I could use my mill..
err milling head..
without having it floating..
or would that break bits fast?
laminate NEVER sits flat
it's not laminate it's aluminium :)
or stailess ;)
uncharted territory :)
laminate works well, thats why all the engraving comapnies use ti :)
hm, carbin fibre laminate?
you can get nice 'metal' laminates
or what do you mean?
* anonimasu isnt really into engraving
ultra-thin stainless top,
black plastic inner
or white or whatever
I'll mill the tags out of a 0.5mm alu sheet..
then maybe pull em into a fixture with vaccum or somthing..
and do the engraving
better order more cutters :)
so now the cost per tag is about what? 40 dollars?
I dont know
still, so long as its fun!
the cutters are like 4$ each..
and I want to be able to enrgrave on stuff..
like the plastic pices I'll be doing production of..
can be handy
but the main trouble is that I need a engraving macro.. but I'll look into it later..
robin_sz: the stuff I'll engrave will be facemilled anyway :)
there is software such as engravelab by cadlink
robin_sz: yeah but I need it on the controller..
its gcode out
robin_sz: so I can g3923 Z12 f20 X10 Y0 "no: %N"
I cant imagine why you would watn to do that
robin_sz: serials and stuff..
I still cant imagine why you want it on the controller
robin_sz: how are you going to increment that if you are doing a run of a couple o 1000 parts?
all the engraving software takes in spreadsheets
badges or labels from spreadsheet is standard
thats like so standard, thats like a CAM package importing IGES or DXF
yeah but this isnt for the badges since I wont be doing loads of thoose..
normally, you just tell it the fixed text, the label size, the sheet size and how many you want, it should score the finished sheet for you to break it you into labels too. thats the same for badges, labels, machine plates .. whatever
* anonimasu just thinks that
that's a neat feature
[11:40:44] <anonimasu> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1364.html
[11:40:48] <robin_sz> http://www.engravelab.com/el_prodInfo_txControl.php#badgeSerial
doesnt even need a spreadsheet :)
yeah but this is in a run.. with a part exported from another program..
I need a fixed width/height font, dosent have to be fancy..
just be there..
the namesigns are another buisness..
well .. I guess al you need is a controlelr that handles subs and macros
write a sub for each number
err, no. not that
dosent emc do sub's..
will it someday?
depends if development gets pointed in a single direction instead of 5 different directions
right, back to my G2002 and dynamic C :)
maybe it's easier to write a gcode and a char generator..
err define a g-code..
and ignore what everyone else is doing :)
M code maybe
M9000 (do a 0)
doable in Mach2 pretty easily I suspect
yeah, but who'd want to run mach2 ? ;)
throught the 'conversational' screens etc
well, there is that.
youd get half your labels done :)
and it would look neat while it did it.
shudder ... but the other half ...
right, back to the G2002.
anonimasu: You want custom G codes ?
paul_c: oh, I was thinking about a engraving macro/g/mcode
for making serials on parts..
Custom M functions can already be done - See emc/programs/M101 (or M102.c) for example.
I guess there's not really a large problem then..
* paul_c goes back to coding on emc rather than "bitching about directions"
yeah that's better
paul_c: N S E W ????
are you working on emc1 or emc2?
Jymmm: "NSEW" ??
anonimasu: working on the BDI-4 branch (emc1 with libnml)
very nice :)
now I just need to forward my X session from the mill to the box at work
* Jymmm pokes anonimasu --> http://www.cncci.com/resources/tips/engrave.htm
but can you do like that in emc?
anonimasu: goony goo goo
anonimasu: really dont care, whatever gets the job done cleanly
Jymmm: yeah, whatever does the job :)
keep it simple
yeah, but I was wonderig if the interpreter will take somthing like taht
oh, no clue. Just sounded like it wasn't already implemented in emc yet.
* anonimasu nods
it'll solve itself eventually
good morning les
brr cold here
Trying to modify the software and ship that tester box
I'll be glad to get those out of here
And next job whatever time estimate i make on development....
I will double!
didnt it quite go round?
development takes time
my x session now works..
all the way from the shop through the firewall to work.. and the nazi firewall there
03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/drivers/ppmc/ (ppmc_pwm.c univstep_dio.c): Added some missing license & author info - Found a use for the cvs ID tag..
paul_c: when doing custom M codes how do you get them to pass stuff back to emc?
03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Added some missing license & author info - Found a use for the cvs ID tag..
paul_c: you can reply when you get time to spare I am in no hurry :)
You don't. It's a one way thing.
ah ok I thought you could use it for somthing like that engraving thing :)
M codes do not (generally) pass data back to the controller.
they are (normally) used for turning functions on or off.
so if I want to engrave anything I need to write a g-code for it..
or use a engraving program ;)
[wild idea] You could write a custom M func. that passes canonical commands via NML to the task controller.
hm, yeah that could be done
proably more effort than to sit at a cad/cam screen...
the trouble is nml.. I dont know anything about it..
i've been looking at the c++ and nml guide a bit
Contrary to popular myth, it isn't that hard.
I thought the doc seemed messy
which doc did you read ?
[13:03:46] <anonimasu> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/NMLcpp.html
there is also some nml notes in the emc2 source notes doc.
would it be extremely hard to write somthing so you could include a external file on the fly?
I think generating the code with a c/c++ program for the engraving wouldnt e that extemely hard
it is probably more advanced than you want, but see http://timeguy.com/cradek/truetype
cradek: I dont desperately need it but it'd be a neat feature to have
paul_c: I'll look at thosoe doc later :)
anonimasu: a straightforward way would be to use my program to generate the alphabet, and then assemble your g-code with an external program.
cradek: yeah exactly
going to go to the shop to mill something
paul_c: I found a error..
when aborting a move the Z axis will keep moving..
it keeps walking slowly.. after a move..
I need to know something about the current emc code
* anonimasu is scared of it
The original was public domain
now much has been modified by this group
is the current code public domain or GPL?
Had a couple emails from the dynomotion guy
If the current source code is GPL I think he needs to know that
hm, I dont know if I should mill this.. while the machine acts like this..
I am running emc1 now..
Sounds like we have a bit of broken code there
* anonimasu sighs I dont quite get why eveything's messing aroudn so much..
then I move z 0.01 it shouldnt go 0.01 and then continue moving :/
I should grab a older version of emc..
I assume there is no movement when no pulses are sent?
yep ths how it is
I have to make some minor changes in my step multiplier circuit here
must go out and get the scope
back in a bit to see if paul can answer my earlier question
anonimasu: What deadband & min_ferror settings do you have ?
DEADBAND = 0.0006
when the axis creeps, does the GUI update the position ?
0.0042 and 0.0068
I didnt see this error when I ran the guy remotely
it appears when moving manually and when moving with mdi..
on X & Y, increase deadband to 0.001 or 0.002
If it is "hunting" between two points, then increasing deadband will cure it.
If motion is continious in one direction, it is probably a bug.
it's in a continous direction..
I wouldnt care if it didnt move down into the workpiece when I am trying to zero my Z
ah works now
ach here comes the snow
*less scared now*
paul_c: but its odd that it didnt move in both directions..
Paul: is current emc1 source considered GPL?
paul_c: can it be because I didnt set my hold_time and setup_time high enough?=
les: The short answer to your question. EMC(1) and rcslib is P.D. apart from a very small number of files.
paul_c: still happens
but the original pd stuff has been modified a good bit
I'll try increasing the deadband to 0.002
pd + mods= GPL?
anonimasu: Might ce an idea to open up the ssh port again for some more debugging.
what port was it?
les: Only a couple of the hardware drivers are GPL, and emcplot
the 3D backplot for tkemc is GPL
it dosent happen now.. when I increased the deadband..
however, if anyone is using rcslib, they need to be aware that a couple of the sources are copyrighted & not GPL or P.D.
Well this guy seems to be only using parts of the interpreter.
Ported to a TI dsp
Anyway the card turns out to be not so interesting
$1200+ quan 1
reads some g-code but not a functional machine controller
just the interp, or the traj. planner as well ?
He did his own cubic planner
but $1200 is not competitive
My quest for a under$500 high performance servo cnc control still has one possibility
emc+ motenc or another card
Under $500 control= I can make money selling small cnc machines
There are a lot of machines out there so if one wants to market one it has to be really different
just doing feasibility at this point
hmm... I probably should make a switch over plan from winxp to linux... but what distro?
Roland Friestad just put up a site for his workshop this summer. http://www.cnc-workshop.com/
how do I turn the work offsets off?=
If this box is going to be connected to www.
g92.2 isnt it?
g92 is a pain. I use g55+ in place of it.
what does g55 do?
my experience is that using g92 in the gui is a sure way to destroy your part
I just wnt g92 to stop messing :/
Shut down emc, edit the var file so that all numbers are zero except 5220. Make it a 1.
Restart the emc and you should be good to go.
do I have to do that every time I start on a new part?
I use g92 most every day, but only in mdi
ray_, heh. I just saw that in my turboCNC forumn. [re: cnc-workshop.com]
anonimasu, g55, preset origin points.
Yes. Roland and the turbo guys are friends.
cnc-workshop is one of those things that I shouldy really go to...
Who needs friends? except when you need to have a joint, smoke, beer, bbqs.
Turbo writers are a good bunch
ray_, yup. they are. I'm a registered user.
I heard that abdul is planning on being there and that his board will be one of the possible servo drivers
Want the pc104 to be there also?
Roland is sacreficing a Bridgeport servo machine for EMC to use.
who me ?
the pc104 isn't mine to push - Sensoray can do that them selves.
Oh. Will they have Linux drivers and such on their site?
Or was your involvement a one off?
Just a one off.
PC104 is attractive. Has some real advantages like byte wide communication unless you use the +.
* paul_c checks the prices of flights to Chicago for June..... �510.
PC104 is just an ISA bus.
I can pick you up at O'Hare
I can't afford the filight and the codeFest
I am cutting now :)
hmm... think my college will care that I don't go into the entrance exam that started an hour ago, because there's 6" of snow on the ground, and the streets are still unplowed?
anonimasu I missed your question about g55
A-L-P-H-A: you should call em..
g54-g59.3 are all coordinate offset systems.
I've been trying... the answering machine is either full, or something... no one's picking up.
They can offset all 6 axes of a cartesian system.
So you can rotate as well as displace in x y z.
ray_: You sticking around for the day ?
* paul_c has to run an errand for an hour....
If you are using tkemc, there is a menu under Scripts
ray_, how'd you lose your H?
I'll be here most of the day.
or did you get some preperation?
hehehehe... I hope someone else got the joke.
As much as I'm stuck in this chair I need some.
ray_ is now known as rayh
ah. That's relief.
Where did you get all that snow A-L
From those damn yanks... they pushed it up north to Toronto.
hm the iron cut better when I lowered the speed..
I wondered. Most of it went south of me.
cast iron turned to dust... really soft to drill.
Youse guys are right in the line of fire eh.
Cast can be a bitch on the machine.
Just like emery.
[15:10:15] <A-L-P-H-A> http://weather.yahoo.com/img/na_sat_440_mdy_y.html
crummy weather for tomorrow as well.
I'm like SMACK in the middle of the storm right now.
new england got it bad as well
I blew out the drive last night.
[15:11:59] <A-L-P-H-A> http://weather.unisys.com/satellite/previous/sat_ir_enh_east-5.html
Sun is shining now but there are a few flakes on the air yet.
rayh, where are you?
U.P. Michigan. West of the Souix about 200 miles
140 ne of Green Bay WI
most yanks don't know that there is a north of gb.
oops nw of gb.
* rayh heads for the coffee pot.
close to NAMES conventions?
No I'm about 9 hours drive from detroit.
michigan doesn't look that bit to take 9 hours to drive across.
There is a bunch of it north of lake michigan and below lake superior.
[15:21:15] <A-L-P-H-A> http://maps.google.com
Should have been a part of Wisconsin except for a war between ohio and michigan.
look for crystal falls MI and then zoom out.
SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
crystaql falls... small.
dang, not only is it "up" there, it looks like there isn't much else around 8-)
rayh: you're fairly close to my in-laws
Yes it is and I live about 7 miles from it in the woods.
(well - closer than I am :) )
woohoo! there's a town south of Crystal Falls, called Alpha.
They're in Manitowoc, I'm in Burlington, VT
[15:24:09] <A-L-P-H-A> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=crystal%20falls%2C%20MI&ll=46.098389%2C-88.333941&spn=0.367188%2C0.628367
Yes there is. The only remaining Le'Infant(sp) circle drive in Michigan.
Road commission wanted to doze it in a couple years ago. Had a stand off with guns and all.
what's Le' Infacnt Circle drive?
Man - I wish I had the time to finish off my hardware (to bring to CNC-Workshop)
He was a French planner. The center of down was a park with a round about
SWPadnos, what hardware are you working on?
and the roads were spokes from the circle.
oh... round abouts... I hate though.
I have a manual pulse generator, I'm writing software to make it a programmable indexer - that kind of thing
so glad there is none in Toronto. It probably was, but they just split it in two, so traffic just went around each side of it
I remember you telling me that.
It's funny - you guys are talking about snow - I looked outside and noticed that some areas I had shoveled recently were white again
I figured out that it must be snowing
Manitowoc is nice country.
hm this machines nicely with a moderate speed..
then I looked up, and saw the tiny flakes :)
I guess I could up both the feed and the speed..
SWPadnos, it's your imagination... gnomes are out side sprinkling icing sugar on everything. That's all.
anonimasu: it's amazing what the correct speed can do for you
I'm just dreading when it all melts and we see where everyone has been walking their dogs ;)
you can make lemonade from yellow snow! Everyone should try it. :)
OK - then what do we do?
give it to children. :)
Most of the crap on the ground hereabouts is wild critter.
* anonimasu sighs
we don't get much of that in the Big City :)
The down side is that web dribbles in.
so I think the only things left for this tach thing, is the BIN2BCD [for 16 bit, or even 32bit], and then push that onto a stack, and read it to the LCD. :D
(though there was a vear hanging around a few months ago)
apt-get install lyx takes about 8 hours.
Why do this offsets come on by themselves?
They shouldn't turn on unless you ask for them. Is this emc1
wow heavy snow shower here
light fluffy stuff here
Hi Les. Sun's shining.
rayh: I'm sending you a CD with BDI-4.18 - would you like me to download anything else?
Look under edit and select parameters or variables or whatever it's called..
I ought to post the 36 up gcode for the calls...good exercise in g5x and g10
The list would fill a couple more disks.
SWPadnos, I leeched BDI-4.18 off your site last night.
well - I have DSL and a CDRW :)
gotta compare the md5...
A-L-P-H-A: how was the speed?
OK - is that a limit of your connection?
250kbps down. 45 up.
OK - not too bad.
I hope this dont breaks before I finish this part..
heh! how come sherline is 4.16, and not 4.18?
heh - interesting things happen when you pop up a menu (in tkemc), and then drag the main window out from under it :)
I think paul went on a errand.
because 4.18 was just uploaded 2 days ago, and Paul may not have moved it yet
You do get some strange keyboard interactions with the multiple windows.
I'm also viewing it on a Windows box (using Cygwin-X)
That's why i went to a single screen with popins for mini.
ouch. That puts a whole nother layer in the stream.
that I know nothing about.
yes it does :)
not an issue - just "interesting" ;)
SWPadnos, sweet. got the whole thing, no error that md5sum could detect.
if I had more than 20gigs a month of bandwidth, I'd post the image on my website.
yeah - I've been wondering how it would affect things
(though I get 192G/month)
(which works out to 636kbits/sec, continuous - cool!)
how much are you paying for that??
ann... that's not bad.
* A-L-P-H-A is kinda jealous
* rayh is away: Gone for a bit
A-L-P-H-A: I tried opening a private chat with you ()for the AVR stuff - it's a little off topic here :) ), and it said I need to register with nickserv - how do I do that?
/msg nickserv help register
OK - I'll check that out
I'm sleepy again. :/ gotta take a nap, I only got like 4 hours of sleep.
* paul_c returns
What Ho, paul_c?
someone asking about 4.16 & Sherline ?
(like - why isn't it 4.18?)
'cos they haven't uploaded it yet, and....
I figured that you just hadn't gotten to putting it there or something
The server had a disk failure, and
plus 4.19 is due in a day or two, right :)
another stray cut.
I'll just have to tig weld this scrap back togther. and facemill it.
with emc2 again ?
bdi-4 build ?
the same as we compiled yesterday..
on 2.4 ?
OK... Old code base.
I defenetly didnt turn on the offset.. :(
anonimasu: you had mentioned Z "drifting", right?
Can you email me the g-code file ?
SWPadnos: yeah it was the deadband setting..
oh it happened during a mdi move..
Hmmm - deadband should cause or prevent hunting, but not long term drift
I wonder if you have some intermittent encoder (or step) wires somewhere?
SWPadnos: I've been running the machine nicely..-
SWPadnos: it appears when I have deadband set too
SWPadnos: I've been running the machine for a couple of months and i've never had any axis move by mistake.. other then when turbocnc/emc lost it's position..
OK - just a thought
I need to go for a bit.. have to repair this piece..
paul_c: should offsets enable themselves when I go from auto to MDI mode?
any G or M code executed in MDI/AUTO/Manual has a global effect.
it somtimes resets the axis:es to a wrong position
like4 instead of 0..
when I use set position in tkemc..
is it always an integer or is it sometimes a 3.995 ?
it's somtimes 3.1229
or anything between..
it's the value that was in the work offset that gets applied
a random number....
or 13 on Z, if I remember correctly
yeah but that was with emc2
So you are using work offsets in Auto ?
paul_c: I am trying no to use them..
wait a sec..
when I zero a axis..
err click the axis and set it to 0
check for G53, G53-59, & G92
paul_c: I handwrote the program
nothing like that in there..
* rayh is back (gone 00:27:49)
when I do that it adds a work offset..
rayh: what IRC command sets you to "away" like that?
OK... So you are setting an offset with the "Set axis position" widget
its a /away with / at the start of the line.
I'm using xchat and preferences allows you to set the away message.
then use a /back to set normal.
anonimasu: Back to the prob....
So after setting the offset, at some point it gets ignored and over-ridden ?
I got it to happen again now
I ran my program..
then I made a move to 0'
but the display shows -7
which is the work offset..
paul_c: if you want you can run it at my box and watch it happen
which ini are you using ?
and the ./generic.run
is it up and running at the mo ?
you fire it up and I'll connect with keystick
Damnable work offsets. These are the same as g92 and they will fsck you over every time.
* anonimasu is getting a bit scared of mills ;)
Want me to send the code for the 36 array? You could run it in simulation
uses all fixture offsets
changes the values in the program
7.416 on Z
look what happens when I run the program
dosent happen now
10.00 offset on Z
did you see what happened?
yup - You went to -10
-10 plus 10 (offset) = 0
but why does it display the offset..
You had it "Relative pos" not "Absolute pos"
If I toggle Relative & Absolute...
See the change ?
you feel a little more comfortable with it now ?
yeah, but how do I zery the machine then?
You have home switches ?
then press the "Home" button.
Numbers should turn Green.
so that's how you zero it.. *feels stupod again*
We all have our Homer moments. ;)
mine has been been lasting for a long time now
anonimasu: You done with me on your computer ?
I am going to go inside and rest..
When you shut EMC down, check the generic.var - That offset will probably get saved.
It looked (from the conversation) like you both had EMC displays - how did you do that?
ssh in and used keystick from my end.
OK - how did anon have a display then? (do you connnect to an "already running" emc process?)
Could have used tkemc on my computer with nml.
One of the advantages of using NML is multiple GUIs can connect to a single task.
That is a nice feature.
so it is possible to have a machine in Hong Kong
and the HMI in London, Paris, and New York.
gives new meaning to the phrase "hacking your machine" :)
How do you actually attach to a remote EMC (what command--line options are used)?
Using NML, it is possible to remotely monitor a task and query it's status.
heck, you don't even need to use vnc or X forwarding to have a GUI on a Doze box.
I often do things the hard way ;)
(I Like to understand things well, then make them work, rather than click-click-done - "what did I do"?)
Same here - I pull stuff apart to see what makes them tick.
right - and then hope I can put it back together :)
(I actually dismantled much of my Bridgeport before I had even made a rotary phase converter so I could see if it worked :) )
luckily, it does
* paul_c _had_ to dismantle the motor on the old BRJ to get to the crown before it could be wired in Delta.
heh - I left the head alone.
I hate the catch-22 of wanting to use the milling machine to make changes in the phase converter box...
paul_c: Did you have something specific you wanted to talk about before you went away?
Was just going to bounce a few ideas around
Go for em.
IO controller using cards like Vital
Adding stuff for analogue inputs to the existing command handler structure adds more processing overhead to the realtime thread.
Yes it would. A lot of it.
taht and a number of files need modifying.
can the numbers be passed as scaled ints, then converted to float by the non-RT code? (or is that not the problem?)
Using conventional IO access from usr space requires a new binary to be produced for each hardware device
What is needed (in my opinion) is a single IO controller that can use the RT driver
without having to use the shmem communications
These analog signals are read only?
analog will just about always be one or the other
digital will often be configurable
analogue signals are read only, but there are also digital IO signals to consider.
analog output should be considered though (it shouldn't be difficult if the mechanisms are in place for digital IO and analog in)
The data types are unimportant. It is just a number at the end of the day..
Once you get beyond the signals used by motion, homes, limits, probe, enable, can't you just read all that data in ut.
As I said, Using the current RT<=>usr space methods, several files need to be altered and it adds to the overheads.
If usr space could use a /dev entry for non-realtime data, we would only need to modify a single source file
to make the dev.
and use bridgeportio with just about any hardware driver.
(/dev or /proc?)
Rather than using inb and outb
yup - route inb & outb requests through /dev/emc
and bridgeportio no longer needs to run as 'root'
that material wasent mild steel..
it was hardox 600 ;)
must log off to run this data aq....later
paul_c: You talked a while back about doing this for a pci device.
I believe it was the whole driver.
Using the same low level code, it would work with all devices, ISA, PCI, even parport.
Paul, I'm still not quite comprehending this discussion. I thought the HAL approach could unify all I/O, and it would be handled as real time. How does this relate to your /dev issues?
HAL won't work with EMC1 nor the BDI-4 stuff.
brb dinner time
OK, didn't realize that you still talking about EMC1.
That and emc2+HAL is to bigger a jump to inflict on Ray & Sherline.
* rayh nods in agreement
Well... If you are in agreement with the /dev method also
I'll start coding some more of it.
Ray, have you seen Roland's updated www.cnc-workshop.com web site?
hm, maybe I should try to machine somthing in foam instead..
can you get hold of any wax that is used for investment casting ?
but maybe I could make some was out of some old candles...
wouldnt that machine nicely?
Parafine wax is too soft unless it is super cold.
then it's a bit hard
I got some plastic though
I need to run
I'll be back in a hour
Not wanting to appear rude, but....
just wanted to drop in and say thanks to you guys for helping me with EMC, eventho i know nothing about linux i'm almost there with having my DIY CNC machine working 100%
* paul_c has to disappear for tea.
i'm at work right now, but when i get home i will work on it a little more then all set :)
yes - that may be why I'm getting hungry
thanks for reply Paul, I have compiled EMC 4
* paul_c returns from stuffing face.
ditto but still am
* SWPadnos remembers the beef stew in the microwave
thanks for the reply, I have compiled it
Congrats - It wasn't too hard was it.
It makes 1 error when tried to find /lib/modules/2.69.../build
but it was ok, easy
When I change some code, how do I compile emc again?. I have changed some code and typed make, but it says that there is nothing to do...
Kernel modules or usr space ?
I changed trivkins.c
ok, but it says that there is nothing to be done in motion
Should I compile trivkins separately, then make modules_install?
here are the last 3 lines I got when tried to make
touch updates the timestamp on trivkins.c so make should see it has been changed and run through the compile.
BTW Can you do a "cvs update" so that we are both working from the same sources....
but I got problems, the last 3 lines of make ended with error. make -C /lib/modules/2.6.9-adeos/build SUBDIRS=/home/mateushfa/emc/src CC=gcc-2.95 V=0 modules ; /lib/modules/2.6.9-adeos/build No such file or directory. Stop. ; Error 2
is it normal?
Had you done an install from the BDI-4.xx CD ?
the name of directory appears, but it is red with black background and 34 bytes ... :(
can you do a "dpkg -l | grep headers" and tell me if & what it says ?
no pack found
I will install it
wait a minute
apt-get install kernel-headers-2.6.9-adeos
ok, I will find from Kpackage, ok?
that I have done
from kpackage as well
but .config didnt work
kpackage or synaptic will work - As long as you do the apt-cdrom
I have apt from debian
same, I think
did you follow all the instructions on the wiki page ?
but when typed .config it makes error
What error ?
make oldconfig doesnt work
scripts/Makefile.build no such file or dir
No rule to make scripts/Makefile.build stop
sounds like you missed a stage in the instructions.
ok, I will install it from kernel-headers from CD then untar it
I have installed from apt-debian and it came untared to me
can you cut'n'paste from a terminal to the irc window ?
how do I do that?
make: scripts/Makefile.build: No such file or directory
make: *** No rule to make target `scripts/Makefile.build'. Stop.
make: *** [scripts_basic] Error 2
I'll type some commands in for you to follow - Just let me know what errors occur...
you need to be in the kernel-source-2.6.9 directory directory...
type stuff ?
mateushfa@mcpf:/usr/src/kernel-headers-2.6.9-adeos$ make oldconfig
make: scripts/Makefile.build: No such file or directory
make: *** No rule to make target `scripts/Makefile.build'. Stop.
make: *** [scripts_basic] Error 2
there is my error
^^^source - Not headers
do not have it
Now works smooth, Shame on me
Thank you very much]
you missed a stage in the instructions didn't you
is there a program to use to convert jpg to gcode?
missed, I was making it for headers not for source :(
or a site with links to different programs for cnc
so you re-did the cp & make steps in kernel-source....
i really like EMC, think i will keep linux on my machine for this
yes and it was ok
i have never used linux before... lol
OK... Now back to emc/src
and do configure
I have compiled it all
paul_c, any thoughts on the interface between brl-cad and emc? i have had a few people suggest step-nc. i do not know enough about step-nc to know if that would be a possibility.
mateushfa: If you have any comments on the wiki page that would make it easier to follow
feel free to change it.
narnia: Not had to deal with step-nc so can't really comment.
it is perfect. I made those mistakes because I install all things from apt-debian ,not from CD and the first which appears was headers not source, so I though it was ok and keep running instructions
paul_c, any thoughts on a good first cut for an interface?
narnia: G-code :)
narnia: are ther epackaged versions of brl-cad?
(or just source)
jpg to g-code anyone have a link or name i can search, or is there a site with linux links for different cnc programs?
SWPadnos, there is only source available at the moment.
OK - thanks.
joe2000chevy: look for a bmp engraving program, and then use something like imagemagick to convert from jpg to bmp
(unless there's a single-program solution someone knows about)
Just one clue, I have changed trivkins.c to try Parallel Kinematics, so made the changes for KinInverse and recompile it. Do you think it will work?I want to use stepper, so freqmod is suitable. M
paul_c, wasn't there some discussion a while back about adding step-nc to emc?
I know NIST had been working on step-nc and I think they were using (parts of) emc for validation
paul_c, is fred proctor involved in that?
paul_c, thank you
bummer... Can't find Matt Shaver's bmp to g-code program
Should be on http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/cncutils/
* anonimasu yawns
it's totally empty
[19:53:24] <paul_c> http://ftp.linux.hr/pub/gnu/savannah/files/cncutils/
joe2000chevy: ^^^ That's what you want I think.
* anonimasu is running around for feedrates for alu :)
anne used it?
Once at NAMES a few years back.
does it do depth?
Depth is determined by colour as I recall.
darker color is deeper
code line z is - large
03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/emcioctl.c: Start fleshing out the ioctl interface.
* anonimasu yawns
I wonder if I should mill some plastic...
yes - by all means, do
Heh, got emc, now all I need is a decice to drive with it :-), anyone got an old CNC machine they don't want anymore :-)?
I'll prototype my limit switches..
err limit switch mounts.
ok still no go on a good pic 2 cnc in linux :(
heh I forgot how my design of limit switch mounts looked
ah remembered it..
Paul_c, one error on Wiki Page, in CVS: cvs -d:pserver:email@example.com:/cvsroot/emc checkout -Pr bdi-4 -D emc emc2 should be "-d" not "-D"
-D creates a directory called "emc"
yes, but it is -d
-D is date, something
mateushfa@mcpf:~/emc/src/emc/motion$ cvs -d:pserver:firstname.lastname@example.org:/cvsroot/emc checkout -Pr bdi-4 -D emc emc2
cvs [checkout aborted]: Can't parse date/time: `emc'
OK. You win.
Your prize: A chance to edit wiki ;)
I will do it
how? just edit html and send it to you?
go to http://www.redpoint.org.uk/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=editprefs
now need to login
how do I do that?
click the "edit this page" link on the page you want to edit - you should already be "loggd in"
SWPadnos: nope, it doesnt appear
hmmm - hold on a sec
03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/ (emcioctl.h Makefile emcioctl.c): Just four functions need to be implemented at present. As the code develops, we can think about other commands.
mateushfa: well - it works for me, and I can't see how to make it work for you - sorry about that.
ok, so can you please make the changes
sub "-D" for "-d"
in CVS line
OK - check that
hm, I have a idea for a mist lube system.. anyone care to hear it?
as long as its short :)
a pressurized tank with a pickup line..
to a block with air in and lube in..
with aproperiate reductions.. on the lines..
now it works
SWPadnos: what do you think about that?
like the Kool-Mist system ?
somthing like it
sounds great :)
more droplets then mist.. but that's another problem..
I wouldnt want mist without good ventilation
trying to get away from using a pump..
since I have unlimited supply of compressed air..
[21:14:23] <SWPadnos> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_focus.php?Focus=Coolant
eventually I'll run flood coolant..
but I dont have a enclosure yet
yeah - me too, once I have a way to catch the outflow :)
dang i'm starting to give up on pic to gdoce in linux... :(
howdy folks im home from work
les : howdy
can't find a good program
what are you trying to do?
funny my usb stepper stuff slows down to a crawl if dsl is on
but I can still test it
I have a problem with slipping steps trying to overcome a strong torsion spring in the part
anonimasu : howdy :), sorry I was paying a bill
I have upped the current to the point that the power supply is getting very hot
les : what about voltage?
I will order a torsion spring to partially balance that torque
les: full/half step?
convert a picture to gcode in linux, with color depth to determain cutting depth
gezr: the power supply impedance is several ohms, so voltage starts to drop when I up the current of course
joe2000chevy: outlines or scanlines?
I think just a spring will fix things here
about 20 in lb of torque is needed
at full deflection
les : hey, can torque be calculated by using direct measurements?
or are there too many other varables involved?
the part is 40 in lb....but if I balanced that at one end it would just slip at the other
Gezr: yes. I use a fish scale
scanline i think
1 in radius....pulls 40 lb....that's 40 in lb
like to cut 3d
les : could the same be at 40 inches 1lb?
but only like .2 deep max just to give color depth
joe2000chevy: I've done that with PIL, the python imaging library
joe2000chevy: convert to grayscale, read out the scanlines, output gcode
les : okay, so there are ways to test my cheap wrenches
gezr: yes easily
and how is that done?
les : its easier for me to make a rod 36 inches long and haing a lb from it
joe2000chevy: by reading the docs and writing a little python
les : no thats not right
ok whats a python, other than the snake?
Gezr: might be. I hang weights or fish scales from machine handles all the time
les : that would be 3 foot lbs
python is a programming language. www.python.org
joe2000chevy: um, a programming language
right 3 ft lb
joe2000chevy: I'll post the (barely finished enough to be working) code
les : so to get 30 foot pounds, at 36 inches, I would need 10lbs of weights?
gees: i'm no programer.
gezr: you got it
les : so in terms of cutting a metal for example, ive never needed to use a cheater pipe or any type bar to move the table under a cut, do you know or have you calculated required poundage to move a machine under a certian type of cut?
I'm running too much current here....the bridge rectifier is starting to smell of burned plastic
Gezr: yes I have calculated some
les : what v are you running at?
les : would my assumption that most machines are severely over powered as far as screw motor would be correct?
.7 amp in an allegro 5804
ok but needs a heat sink
you can get over 1 out of that thing
right 1.2 cont, 1.5 peak
but needs a heat sink
ive let the smoke out of one them bad boys
les : they have a newer version of that type of chip out now
haha but heck they are $3 a piece
not if you havent ordered them and need a few samples :)
I am making some copper heat sinks and soldering them to the center og the leadframe
No more samples...5804 is discontinues. But there are plenty of others
les : do you send your motor voltage through your 8054 or just directly to the motor then the remaining leads to the ic?
Diodes and series resistors
Now down to 7 ohms
actually 10 now
whats your stepper rated at?
about an amp
voltage wise that is?
it's fairly cool
rated at 6v I think...but can use much much higher
have you tried it at 36v?
30v is fine with a current source
But I have already built these with 12X root 2 - two diode drops
but for this one overcoming that spring is a problem
easiest to just counter spring it rather than rip out the supply and stuff
ordering now from MSC....It's a two dollar problem I think
Cradek, I do not know how to use the code? i do not know linux at all.
then it will be a great learning experience
start with google and read about running python programs.
les : :)
bye, thank you All
it's very rewarding to be able to write simple programs to perform tasks like the one you are working on.
i will give it a try, another thing to learn
you have a sample of a gcode you did with it?
let me look, I don't remember
but it's just scanlines going back and forth
and does it do depth? i guess in z axis
d = float(im.getpixel((i, h-j-1)) / 255.0) * depth - depth
print g.cut(x, y, d, feed=12)
yeah the depth is proportional to the pixel value
Chris: light at the end of the tunnel....hope to have open time on the machine to check segmentqueue in a week or two
Have contracted about 2 days of running per week through spring and summer
better than 7 days a week!
if it would compile on my box I could give it a go..
looks like I have another *really* kewl cnc project to work on ...
anonimasu: you need the python imaging library installed
cradek: for running segmentqueue?
anonimasu: other than that it will probably just work.
anonimasu: heh, no
emc, a 2 axis frame, gphoto2 and an expensive camera ...
here's my home brew cnc machine i just finished on the cheap side., but i have a 1 1/2" router on it now and the motors have no problem pushing it. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5616
took about 2 weeks to build in spare time.
Joe: very nice
thanks, but the next one will be better
anonimasu: on a debian system, "apt-get install python-imaging" should get you the package you need for chris's script.
use this one to cut the parts with
good plan :)
those linear rails ... have a look at the Igus stuff ...
jepler_: oh I was talking about segmentqueue :9
perfect for low-budget machine like that and way cheap
I was surprised how stout the machine is.
anonimasu: oh, sorry -- I wasn't paying much attention
seems the net is dropping apart tonight
heh. Martha Stewart is getting out of jail now.
whew, my kitchen is once again complete
I like her cookies. :) I get my sister to make them for me. :D
hahahah, I cant share what I just had running through my head
she is kinda cute
She used to be a model.
she used to be a lot of things, now she is just a convicted fellon :)
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
ugh - I guess the great internet slowdown just got here
03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Flesh out the usr space side...
ahh, more emc2 progress. thats nice to see
as I was saying
looks like I might have a paying project
when are you going to do something in there ?
when I have ime and/or inclination
when I sprout a second brain
since I dont use emc and have lost track of the current emc2 status, its not that high on my priority list
having said that I did try the new segmotqueue on emc1 the other day on some stpeers, seemed just fine
You didn't looooose some stpes with your stpeers?
No reaction. Hmph
no, I it didn't seem to looooooose any stepppps.
but then i got distracted with the G2002 :)
might be attaching it to an old Boss5 Bridgeport this weekend
paul_c: you want another machine tool?
make & model ?
pierce-all Pulsa 8 cnc punch
nope - sell it as a boat anchor.
all working, except the control :)
sell it? hell, I'll *give* it away
its on ebay for a quid, just need the space
Too bad shipping costs $$$
asdf-meep is now known as asdfqwega
Ah, that's better
basically, its going to cost more to even scrap it than its worth
working, its worth a grand
Too bad I haven't built my flying car - I'd come pick it up
youd need one with 8 tonne lift capacity
I think my wife is home
* asdfqwega scribbles '8 tonne' into design specs
Hm, could smuggle a lot of Levi's and stuff in 8 tonnes...
assuming there is a market for levis
I only remember some things I've been told - A friend of mine told me a buddy once paid for his entire european vacation out of his luggage in Levi jean jackets
Times (and fashion) have changed since, so I'm sure that wouldn't work twice
"In the news today, the military shot down an unidentified aircraft
where is this?
"On an unrelated note, in a nearby village it started raining Levi's
most of the worlds economies are now pretty open. Levis no longer have scarcity value
Like I said, times have changed
I'd have to do some in-depth research before I'd smuggle anything - and after all that effort, I might as well go legit and make use of the marketing info
the big game here in the UK is missing trader VAT fraud
buy goods for X, vat free outside UK
sell goods for (X * 0.95) * 1.175 in massive quantities
(ie 5% cheaper than raw cost
but with VAT on top
so you get MASSIVE sales, like millions on mobile phones
Tax avoidance, always a worthy cause
then go bust before paying the VAT
Nice...sneaky...underhanded...I like it!
some guy managed to owe the VAT 508 million before bancrupting the company, presumably shuffling the (17.5% - 5%) offshore nicely
the vat man hates it
Of course, I just know that since it works so well, they're going to change the law so you can't do that anymore
what they are doing is asking some companies to pay VAT up front if they suspect it might all go wrong
nothing escapes the Queen
I had to say something, were all getting the shaft with taxes