sigh .. so what should I try for 'doze development?
Borland Builder or Visual Studio?
* robin_sz flips a coin
oh well .. Visual Studio it is ...
does anyone know the root password for the bdi live cd
alan-1, there shouldn't be one
is /var/tmp/trans/usr/local/emc the directory where i should be editing the config files, or can i specify one at command line
<-- newb. I know nothing. sorry
talking to the PLC manufacturer..
they cant reproduce my bug..
what's a colon?
nah... it's ':'
a comma is a ,
they are using a newer version then I have avaiable..
I need to leave for a bit
ok.. catch you later
* an0n is away: (Auto-Away after 10 mins) [BX-MsgLog On]
* anonimasu yawns..
* anonimasu kicks emc
hi dan, seem to have been quite last few days, need paul to stir things up maybe.. 8-)
did he visit with you on his trip?
paul set up a box that automatically boots into emc here for me
we had a good time
that is neat, also nice to see other people's actual machines. I've seen enough Sherlines to last me a lifetime.
Nothing wrong with Sherlines, just that they seem to be the ones that make it to all the shows due to small size.
Sunday morning, the sun was out and we took a long walk and talked for a couple hours
It was a good weekend
Sunshine? I though Paul liked caves? 8-)
Saturday it was foggy and rainy and he said it reminded him of home
I think he taught me more this last weekend than I would learn on my own in a year
we had some discussions on lathe coding
did you end up with a system running the 2.6 kernel?
we set up BDI 4.15, which I think is running 2.6
great, a "live" user!
I actually wasn't as concerned about the kernel as I was the machine code
we discussed the GUIs, switches, DA cards
understandable, but many folks are chomping at the bit to move to the newer kernel
lathe mode is going to be a long slow process, there are so many special issues on a CNC lathe
what are the advantages of the 2.6 kernel?
It's funny, we didn't dicuss the kernel while Paul was here
I am not sure that it matters much for EMC, just that people are used to 2.6 on their desktops and want same on EMC, especially people who are new to EMC and have not used older kernals.
it's funny, most of our discussions related to making the computer look more like a machine tool control and less like a desktop computer
hence the machine booting up emc automatically
we even went to a surplus store in search of touch screen panels
2.6 does offer "soft" realtime, but that is not fast enough to support EMC so RTAI or RTLinux is still used.
well, I need to go to work. I will talk more this weekend.
I like the idea of conforming to look more like real machine tools, but I am not a fan of touch screens. I like real button alongside that get labeled by the text on the screen.
* anonimasu cant seem to find out why he's loosing steps
I usually try running slower as a sanity check first, then if that is OK, start chasing the other issues.
hm that dosent seem to be it..
I am running ~ 20mm/min
with 0.5 as accel..
if you tell me more about your setup, I'll be happy to start guessing 8-)
I need to go got to rest a bit :/
* alex_joni has seen some nice milling machines today
bigg and fast?
wanna see some pics?
* alex_joni uploads some
will take a while
don't know about fast.. but big
sorry about the poor picture quality.. but it was very dark (and no flash powerfull enough to lighten them)
anyways... how have you been?
was supposed to fly out to Geneva toady
"nice milling machines today" $$$$$$$$ or |<---------------------------->|
didnt though .. go next week
I desperately need to get this server out of the house and isntalled in a rack
too bloody noisy for home use! :(
pack it in the basement
basement? heh you dont get basements in 200 yr old barns ;)
no chance .. the foundations are already shaky enough
how about the attic then?
and Id still hear it
[20:06:55] <alex_joni> http://www.robcon.ro/emc/bigmachines/
not all pics there yet.. check again in 5 mins
without being a smartass here, whay does the BDI need so much cpu power?
for the RT stuff
the more CPU power you have, the faster pulses you can output
thus .. faster milling
Ok, I suspect I'm clueless here, especially when I've seen things run on MS-DOS
md-dos is actually easy
wait... DOS has a benefit of nix?! =)
Jymmm: just remember EMC does a lot more than step-pulse generate. It will take servos and do full servo loop calculations in realtime ..
well... depends on the point you look at
* Jymmm <---- clueless (mostly), just getting started.
robin: of course, and a LOT more (including 6-axis interpolation)
and look-ahead motion planner
Does emc do loop ahead?
Ah, ok, that explains it
* Jymmm thought he was goin nuts... DOS does better then nix?!
5th degree polinomial interpolation
robin_sz: 3 more pics
what do you think?
does the BDI have networking support?
the latest is debian based, so you have all the debian packages available for download
all 17? CDs ;)
anyways.. it should contain everything you'd normally need
alex_joni: what is it they are making?
machines for caterpillar
ahh.. did I mention BIG ?
I gotta ask.... has anyone heard of someone making a "home brew" laser router?
wanna build the laser?
alex_joni: No, buy something like a 35W CO2, but need SW to control it
Like a Universal or Synergy
robin's the guy to bug about lasers ;)
like this --> http://www.co2laser.com/english/products/25-30.html
So no lasers huh?
a 35W CO2 laser
what does it come off?
robin: what do you think of those mills?
alex_joni: too small ;)
I'll look for bigger ones
robin_sz it doesn't. it's a complete module for OEM applications
Robin...I got a call and have a gig in march concerning powder coat
Jymmm: it looks a bit 'small' ;)
les: kewl ... buy a dustmask i advance :)
robin_sz: Well, how else are we going to mount them on sharks?!
Oh...I need to develop a power supply in the gun (air powered) for the HV
HV powered by air??
robin_sz: I suspect a 100W is going to be "out of budget" but I could be wrong.
can't use a turbine...Graco has that patented
will make a generator out of a whistle.
les: yeah, but solidsate HV os doable easily now
my gun has solidstae HV, 80 or 100kv,
dunno, not looked inside it :)
Jymmm: what is your laser budget?
# one of my lasers
robin_sz: 25KW rf pump .... WTF?!
robin_sz: gotta run on 110VAC @ 15A service =)
so 2kw in ... 35w out is about your limit
there are decent chiniese selaed c02 tubes for around 1000 USD/100w
but anything to control them?
* alex_joni would use a hammer
youll need to buy some lenses
and couple cases of tequilia
laser ii-vi are the people for lenses
say that in an EARTH language?
ive got an 800w output YAG laser too :0 .. my mate has a 1kw YAG he built himslef
how much was that?
the rod? about 900 USD
and the rf pump?
YAG isnt rf pumped
its a rod of crystal you shine arc lamps at
24kw of arc lamps
well guys... I gotta go to sleep
les: he built his own 12kw switch-mode arc lamp drivers too :)
elliptical, with rod at one focus and arc at the other?
it's been a long day, and tomorrow will be a long one too
yeah, dual elliptical, theres two lamps, rod at common focus
lamps are in 'flow tubes' to get high velocity water right up next to them
robin_sz: I'm clueless here, do you think I could build a 100w laser router (36" x 48") for $5K USD ?
Jymmm: yes, but 100w will cut cardboard, not wood or steel
0.030" non ferious?
define non ferous?
I've seen a 35W cut 1/4" wood
ally, maybe with 250, 300w
brass, no chance
few hundred watts and nitrogen cut, maybe
what about foils?
anyting with copper in wont cut with co2. the mirrors in my big co2 are copper
copper clad == PCB =)
will act like a mirror
Ok, no metals.
I have a ferranti 450w that cuts 1/2" plywood slowly
infact .. you can buy it ;)
you think it could be done for $5K USD
robin_sz: sure, free shipping right?!
100w co2 chinese tube and psu = 1kUSD, willcut balsa, maybe thin wood, card, paper ...
you can engrave wood and metal with 100w
Ok, somethign is wrong here... you say 100W when I saw a 35W do it last month
fine .. 35w ...
I get 35w or so of 'idle' power out of the YAG
no, fuck you LOL.... you can't wipe off 60 W like that and get away with it!
it just about sets fire to bits of wood
I'm not trying to become a lumber store, just do some engraving
35w .. I dont think it will amrk metal, I'll try it next time I have the opportunity ... 35w is 1/10th the power of my ferranti .. and thats slow
450w will cut 2mm steel, but struggles on 3mm, 4mm it fails
Heres the thing.... I can but a 24"x12" 35W for $14KUSD, but it's awefully small
[20:42:16] <Jymmm> http://versalaser/english/
lto of cash
[20:42:21] <Jymmm> http://versalaser.com/english/
yep, thus why I was thinking if I could build one my size, and a lil more power
and have a $5K budget
100w is a good aim point
chinese tubes are cheap and effective
are these JUST the tubes, or tube and rf ?
DC excited seeled tubes
and a psu
we bought a PSU and 2 tubes a while back .. theyre still around somewhere
got lost in the factory move at my mates place
what do you do?
nice job =)
well, I build plasma cutters and play with lasers
oh and someting involving software and Switzerland
laser ii-vi is gonna love me =)
onthe bright side, you wont break too many lenses with 100W
"Hi. I needs some lenses." "What kind?" "No idea"
just use secondahnd industril ones
big CO2 lasers break LOTS of lenses
but "broken" for a big laser might leave you with a working area for a low power laser
big lenses are 1.25"
they explode in little areas, then they cant use them or they explode bigtime
is the is the final focusing lens?
if the pitting is in the edge or side, it might be perfect in the middle 1/2"
yeah, or the telescope lenses
they normally expland it to 1" acroos the beam and collimate it .. befor sending it down the mirrors
I still need to figure out just controlling the laser
easy. 5V = on
0v = standby
I meant like ppi
bit technical I guess
you'll need some sort of Q switch
dunno how they pulse CO2 tubes
start off easy, add pulsing later :)
sorry.. I don't mena literally controlling as much as having a 50% black and making that be 50% power level.
mostly they just have a DC input ... 0 os standby 2.5v half ower, 5v full power or som similar scheme
im mor efamiliar with YAG, pulsing YAG is a qswitching thing as the floursecence time of the rod is long
just an analogue voltage from 0-5v = 0 100% power
ok, cool. could do 256 steps...
yeah .. probably not linear though :)
would love 1024, but think I'd be pushing it there
256 will be pushing it :)
eh, easy enough to make is 64
thats more like it.
by all means use an 8 bit A-D
perhaps even with a feedback loop
to get true 256 levels of output
fb from what?
oh the AD
well, sample the beam output power
compare it to the A-D ... wiggle the tube power with a bit of negative feedback
ok, to "smooth" it out you mean
well, to make sure that 23 gives you 23/256ths of full power exactly
they want $3000 for a 30W CO2 excluding PSU
yeah, and rude too
I just got off the phone
im wondering if anyone who has done the hard disk install of the BDI to post the relevent lines of their grub.conf or menu.lst
eek, a giant bat!
hi paul_c, i see you have returned to the pleasant land of Norfolk ...
$2600 for a 30W laser (synrad)
that's not that expensive...
Jymmm, with that wattage, what thickness of alumnium 6061 could I cut?
you can cut 1/4" maple - with two passes
1/4" acrylic sure
I want to cut aluminium... wonder what wattage I would need.
yeah, acryllic cuts real nice
hmm... hoping 1/4"
1/4" max, slowing the motion down a bit
scarf width would be what?
or with two passes
IPm would what?
Jymmm: all metal MUST be cut single pass
wood can cut multi-pass as it turns to smoke
0.003" top, 0.007" bottom
hmm... that's acceptable... I could just make a K vector in it.
metal just melts and sits there, eitheryou cut it all the way through, or it welds itself back in
scarf or kerf?
so 1/4" ally then ...
I've been drinking.
CO2 or Nd:YAG?
$14K USD for 100W CO2
still, no metal
tha't more than my car.
well, one of them.
well, my 800w yag cuts 2.5 mm ally
3mm is pushing it a bit
robin_sz: let me borrow it sometime
so ... say 1600w of nd:yag
or maybe 3kw of co2
robin_sz where did you get your yag from?
a company called "Trumpf"
they do a really good deal
heres how it works
you give them �250,000 .. they give you a laser
* Jymmm gives them the bird instead
I can sell you my spare 1200 watt CO2 laser if you want it
* Jymmm bites.... "how much" ?
its a Trumpf TLF .. and its on Ebay at the moment, we need the space
robin_sz, you spent 1/4mill 128pounds on that laser??
well, its on ebay at 2K GBP at the moment
A-L-P-H-A: someone did in 1997
A-L-P-H-A: I got it for a bit less than that last year :)
[22:11:04] <A-L-P-H-A> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=25280&item=3874595922&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[22:11:06] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=40003&item=3873962309&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
a nice little wire edm would be nice to have
and howdy guys :)
$4.5K CDN :(
robin_sz: I'll take it off your hands for $500 USD =)
A-L-P-H-A: my yag is exactly that power source .. except just one of those big cabinets and the left hand cabinet, my big cabinet only has 2n not 4 psus
market price for that 1200w head is about 6k GBP
I really have no need for one...
but our dealer hasnt managed to sell it for us, so stuff it, onto ebay it goes
you know, I really can't see the sheer cost of lasers as they are.... 100Watt CO2 should be like $5-6K USD
but chinese tubes are OK
hell, I can pick up a laser pointer for $0.99 USD
so that's _JUST_ the laser head? I'd have to make my on gantr system?
robin_sz : why did you go laser over water jet or plain ole plasma?
Jymmm, I can one up that! $1.00CDN + 15% tax at the dollar store.
gezr: accuracy. its as good as water, but quicker and cheaper
ah okay, so waterjet is a larger investment
waterjet is nice, but slow and messy
* Jymmm wants a 100Watt CO2 for $2500 USD
I got my Trumpf laser cheap too :)
robin_sz : yeah, I guess its all totally dependant on the task
robin_sz how did you get it cheap?
Jymmm: right place at the right time
wait, I find a pic
[22:17:27] <robin_sz> http://www.rapidcut.co.uk/images/LY2500.jpg
the white box is the same as that big 4kw yag, just smaller
Bond, James Bond
what was that... Goldfinger?
gezr: had I shownyou that before?
where they were going to laser him in half?
robin_sz : yeah :)
CO2 is better for that :)
co2 cuts people
Ipersonally prefer the saw mill tactic. as it's much more messy... with the spray...it's much cooler.
yag just warms em up
I'd think the laser would cotterize, and wouldn't cause too much pain.
* Jymmm invites everyone to /join #101WaysToTortureYourEnemiesWithALaser
Jymmm: considered ex medical C02 lasers . theyre 30w ish usually
robin_sz: that would work, just dont know a source.
they throw them out fom time to time
why would they do that instead of reselling them
ive seen several peopl on alt.lasers pic em up free
what radiology dept?
what would a 30w laser do?
that sought of thng
engrave glass, burn wood
jymmm you can check state auctions
gezr; be shark mountable
gezr: why state auctions?
someone offered me a excimer laser a while back .. free to collect
they tend to sell used equipment from state run institutions, schools stuff like that
gezr: ah, ok.
robin_sz: "excimer" ?
the one in arkansas is I think silent bidding, very strange
Jymmm: UV, cuts anything
robin_sz: yeah? better than yag?
robin_sz : so a laser isnt hot enough to vaporize the metal? or it does that, but it has to be within the lasers ability?
yeah, for its purpose. yag doesnt cut organics liek flesh, some plastics are immune to yag
gezr: to cut you need to either melt it and blow it away (like in allyminium)
I like the hospital idea, just wouldn't know where to start... "Hello operator, do you have any free lasers?"
gezr: or use oxygen, like in flame cutting .. but you need the exit path at the back or it gets messy
on 2.5 ally I use 12bar of nitrogen
blow it away
why the inert gas? to avoid interactions with the fresh cut?
on 6mm mild steel I use 1bar oxy
yeah, ally oxide is hard and reflective
use notrogen on stainless too
nitrogen cut stainless is perfectly shiny
oh oh oh.... just a sec.....
I dont want a laser out of fears of becomming a suspect of some sort
if its mounted to a machine no big deal, but snooping aorund looking for one, and someone gets the idea oh he is gonna use that in a blah blah blah way
HERE WE GO ----> http://www.color-laser-engraver.com/what.htm
WTF? UV Laser --> No cooling fan, no cooling water required, no noise and no vibration during laser operation, plug and play.
its solid state
but no cooling at all?
they are sorta making a hologram type engravement
here, you give me 2K for a 100w co2?
I guess they dont have to remove much to create the effect
robin_sz: all inclusive for $2K USD ?
[22:31:17] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31469&item=3875333751&rd=1
send this guy 899
send me the remaining 1100
job done :)
check the specs though :)
wow .. theres LOTS of co2 lasers on ebay
"average power range" what does that mean?
* Jymmm is reading that as "it's 100v in the 2-5volt average voltage range"
looks big enough to be meaty though :)
120 VOLT 16 AMP
something dont seem right there
40a service I mean
hey... no bids. maybe I could get it for $500 =)
yeah, check the manufacturers spec, work out wht you;ll get CW out of it
Jymmm: you do kno about Sams laser FAQ dont you?
I knda assumed you did
first place to look for ANY laser info
anyway, looks a nice unit
offer him the 899 before he changes his mind
buy it now for $988
buy it now for $899
send the other 1101 USD to me ;)
robin_sz: get your ass over here and earn it!
eecchh, not that again
its still sore from last time
robin_sz: again? what makes you think it ever stopped?
damn, it has 4 gas cylinders too
[22:42:27] <robin_sz> http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/laserfaq.htm#faqtoc
read and learn
will do.... ty!
robin_sz: seriously.... if this thing really does 140W, and it works. is it worth it?
robin_sz: or would there be so much rework to make it useful?
only you can judge :)
looks a clean enough bit of kit
if the FAQ is correct and it can do 140CW, then its a good buy for 899
robin_sz: guess I'll call the factory and see how much a refurbed tube costs too.
I can tell you ...
in excess of 10K
its a medical laser
therefore, they charge medical prices
biomed strikes again
I could buy a nice mill for that
whatver, bet it works fine for hundreds of hours .. its a slow flow tube, so has constant gas changes
no "regassing" to consider, as it happens all the time
oh is THAT what the gas cylinders are for?
four of em
dunno whatthe last one is
all inert... cool
* Jymmm had to think He.... Helium or Hydrogen??? lol
oh and easy wiring harness I see too.
looks a neat bit of kit,
probably cost 100K new
nice vac pump too
yeah, and if I can get the service manual for it..... hot damn
oh you saw that too huh =)
has one with it I think
thes things run low vacuum
like 40 Torr
looks portable too - wheels
I could use the vac pump for some marquetry work
eerm, its an ail pump
get dust in it and its dead
fsck, a and o are at opposite ends of the keyboard too!
heh, same with girls come to think of it ;))
* anonimasu nods
only with girls, you should almost never connect them up to either vacuum pumps, or EHT supplies.
anyone been following the SCO/IBM dispute?
SCO got delisted on the NASDAQ today :) .. fuxxored :)
im semi following it
sco has a case, but I guess now, it doesnt have much of a company left to really gain anything, they should settle with ibm, and ask for an acquisition
ibm dont want them
but it saves linux
ibm want to crush them
oh wife is home
hey, guys... for a stepper drive... should I be reading the leading edge of a pulse or the trailin edge of a pulse for the step signal?
leading is normal
but it makes no odds
odds? difference? [brit slang is sometimes odd] :)
off to buy some wings and taters... back later
baby chicken legs and wings, I perfer them deep fried, then dipped in a hot sauce/melted butter mix
its damn good
gezr right on. :)
minus the butter.. it has enough oil on it already
sounds like a good way of selling the bits you cant put in pies :)
robin_sz : its really good
ill take yur word for it
buffalo wings is another name for them