#emc | Logs for 2005-02-17

[00:00:05] <robin_sz> but the mind spec implies they thought it through
[00:00:33] <websys> Oh they did - they know it will do everything they can think of
[00:00:49] <robin_sz> heh
[00:01:22] <robin_sz> to be fair, they know what they want .. its just communicating it is sometimes optional
[00:01:37] <robin_sz> thnakfully htey always *love* what I do for them :)
[00:02:07] <robin_sz> and you can do quite funky tings with Java :)
[00:02:12] <websys> that's better the some of the clowns I've dealt with
[00:02:32] <robin_sz> yeah, i can imagine
[00:02:48] <websys> I've looked at Java but it seems to slow for realtime calcs
[00:02:56] <robin_sz> oh it is ..
[00:03:00] <robin_sz> hopeless.
[00:03:07] <websys> Might redo the interface is Java tho
[00:03:10] <robin_sz> this isnt motion stuff thank $deity
[07:59:00] <anonimasu> morning everyone
[09:42:42] <asdfqwega> anybody around?
[09:44:40] <asdfqwega> I'm trying to configure an .ini for a QueMonster(tm) machine
[09:44:51] <asdfqwega> The rotary axis is giving me trouble
[09:45:01] <asdfqwega> I'm using the BDI 4.14
[09:45:46] <asdfqwega> Check my thinking: Gecko/stepper/worm setup
[09:45:53] <asdfqwega> 63:1 worm drive
[09:46:24] <asdfqwega> 200 step/rev stepper with /10 microstepping
[09:46:42] <asdfqwega> = 350 counts/degree?
[09:48:41] <asdfqwega> Plus, is there no way to jog an A axis in tkemc?
[10:52:22] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:52:38] <anonimasu> hold on until I get back to work
[11:08:06] <anonimasu> iab
[12:55:37] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[16:50:37] <A-L-P-H-A> hi alex_joni
[16:50:48] <alex_joni> hey alpha
[16:53:18] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is freaking tired
[16:53:32] <alex_joni> did I miss anything these days?
[16:57:35] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home
[19:15:36] <alex_joni> greetings..
[19:43:07] <anonimasu> hello
[19:43:07] <anonimasu> :)
[19:43:18] <alex_joni> hey an0n...
[19:43:25] <anonimasu> I tried milling my part today..
[19:43:28] <anonimasu> it failed.. :/
[19:43:38] <alex_joni> ouch.. why?
[19:43:49] <anonimasu> the z axis didnt go where it was supposed to..
[19:43:54] <anonimasu> it went just fine..
[19:44:03] <anonimasu> then when drilling a hole with the endmill.. it just didnt come back up far enough
[19:44:04] <alex_joni> broke anything?
[19:44:06] <anonimasu> no
[19:44:08] <anonimasu> :)
[19:44:13] <alex_joni> then it's kinda ok ;)
[19:44:15] <anonimasu> just a endmill earlier due to the same problem..
[19:44:22] <anonimasu> I ordered 5 new ones..
[19:44:30] <anonimasu> dormer.. :)
[19:44:31] <alex_joni> maybe lost some steps on z?
[19:44:38] <anonimasu> yeah, but I have no clue on why
[19:44:41] <anonimasu> I was running really slow..
[19:44:47] <anonimasu> like 20mm/min
[19:44:48] <alex_joni> too much accel?
[19:44:52] <alex_joni> ahhh.. slow
[19:44:57] <anonimasu> extremely slow
[19:44:59] <anonimasu> :)
[19:45:10] <alex_joni> need to put it through some tests
[19:45:14] <anonimasu> but I think it might be the case that the endmill gummed up and stuck in the plastic..
[19:45:30] <anonimasu> I am going to give it another shot tomorrow night
[19:45:44] <alex_joni> hmmm.. could be
[19:46:34] <anonimasu> I'll try to machine it in foam instead of in plastic..
[19:46:46] <anonimasu> to see if it does the same under no load conditions
[19:46:51] <anonimasu> * anonimasu hates steppers
[19:47:03] <anonimasu> they are scary.
[19:47:12] <alex_joni> why is that?
[19:47:23] <alex_joni> didn't you say you had g340's ?
[19:47:27] <anonimasu> you never know if you loose steps until you hit the table..
[19:47:41] <anonimasu> yeah but as long as they get pulses they move to the commanded position
[19:48:11] <anonimasu> while, I never know if the stepper dosent go..
[19:48:20] <anonimasu> or if it's stuck/ferrors
[19:48:22] <alex_joni> you have steppers too?
[19:48:26] <anonimasu> yeah one
[19:48:28] <anonimasu> at the Z axis..
[19:48:32] <alex_joni> on the Z :)
[19:48:34] <alex_joni> bummer
[19:48:42] <alex_joni> does it hold position?
[19:48:47] <anonimasu> one of my geckos gecko died..
[19:48:51] <anonimasu> yes
[19:48:55] <anonimasu> I dont have a ballscrew there yet
[19:49:00] <anonimasu> so it's spring loaded..
[19:49:43] <anonimasu> It seems to hold the position very nicely
[19:49:56] <alex_joni> how about moving it with your hand?
[19:50:06] <anonimasu> no problem with that
[19:50:22] <anonimasu> moves without too much force
[19:51:02] <anonimasu> the accel is 1.2 ;) at the axis..
[19:52:42] <alex_joni> seems ok..
[19:52:53] <anonimasu> yes
[19:52:57] <anonimasu> it's really strange :)
[19:53:52] <alex_joni> got some pictures?
[19:53:54] <anonimasu> no
[19:53:56] <alex_joni> of the mill?
[19:54:11] <anonimasu> :/
[19:54:11] <alex_joni> then you should take some ;)
[19:54:22] <anonimasu> I am too ashamed of my motor mounts ;)
[19:54:27] <anonimasu> they look like crap
[19:54:38] <anonimasu> I'll redo them once th boaring head appears
[19:54:39] <alex_joni> you can machine those later ;)
[19:55:01] <alex_joni> send me some pics.. I can't complain (I don't have a running mill.. sooo...)
[19:55:01] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:55:08] <anonimasu> dont have any yet
[19:55:21] <anonimasu> and no cam right now either
[19:55:21] <anonimasu> :)
[19:57:37] <alex_joni> right
[20:13:29] <alex_joni> * alex_joni grabs a night-snack :)
[20:29:31] <alex_joni> bye guys
[20:29:42] <alex_joni> too long day, today
[21:22:50] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:24:14] <robin_sz> * robin_sz watches tumbleweed blow across the channel
[21:31:23] <asdfqwega> Paraffin a-tilly-aay
[21:31:57] <asdfqwega> Anyone here use a rotary axis with EMC?
[21:32:53] <robin_sz> nope ...
[21:33:03] <robin_sz> Ive heard 'odd' tings about ti though
[21:33:37] <jepler> asdfqwega: cradek has in the past
[21:33:50] <jepler> I don't remember what the problems were .. doesn't work at all with segmentqueue, I know that
[21:34:38] <robin_sz> ISTR it had some strange behaviour regarding interpolation
[21:35:00] <asdfqwega> I'm trying to use the current BDI with one
[21:35:30] <asdfqwega> I'm just going to use it as an indexing head
[21:35:44] <robin_sz> what would be the disadvantage in pretending its a linear axis
[21:36:06] <anonimasu> hm, not having your cam program working?
[21:36:10] <robin_sz> and just having '360' be one full turn, although the CNC will think its 360mm?
[21:37:00] <anonimasu> :)
[21:37:16] <asdfqwega> Trouble is, my counts/degree is 350 - and I think that low a number is causing problems
[21:37:26] <robin_sz> pretending to EMC its linear, but the cam its rotary .. I mean, emc will just do the right thing surely?
[21:38:12] <anonimasu> hm.. maybe..
[21:38:14] <asdfqwega> robin_sz: That might be a temporary workaround
[21:38:15] <anonimasu> I dont know :)
[21:38:22] <anonimasu> but well, rotary should work anyway
[21:38:38] <robin_sz> yes it should
[21:38:42] <robin_sz> try it :)
[21:38:45] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:38:47] <anonimasu> I will later on
[21:38:55] <anonimasu> but my Z is loosing steps right now..
[21:38:57] <anonimasu> :/
[21:39:00] <robin_sz> no
[21:39:03] <robin_sz> its not
[21:39:11] <robin_sz> its *losing* steps
[21:39:31] <anonimasu> but I have no idea for what reason it is losing stepps.
[21:39:33] <anonimasu> *grins*
[21:39:43] <anonimasu> (intentional typo)
[21:39:44] <robin_sz> sorry, you just triggered my losing/loosing per hate :)
[21:40:04] <asdfqwega> Listen to robin, he knows what he's talking aboot
[21:40:15] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega is part Canadian
[21:40:52] <robin_sz> sigh ...
[21:41:08] <anonimasu> I have no idea why it's loosing steps though.. might be because the plastic gets gummy when trying to drill with a endmill..
[21:41:22] <robin_sz> nah
[21:41:30] <robin_sz> should be plenty of force really
[21:41:46] <robin_sz> accels too high?
[21:41:51] <anonimasu> heh 1.2 in accel..
[21:41:53] <robin_sz> sppeds too high?
[21:42:12] <anonimasu> like 100mm/min max..
[21:42:22] <robin_sz> pulse rate?
[21:42:51] <anonimasu> 460 I think..
[21:43:01] <robin_sz> 460 hz max?
[21:43:11] <robin_sz> soiunds low
[21:43:20] <anonimasu> 460pulses per mm.
[21:43:32] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega is off to see the Wizard - who makes pool queues
[21:43:41] <asdfqwega> later, guys
[21:44:13] <robin_sz> so 46000 pulses minute .. less than 1khz so no prolem with rate then
[21:44:18] <robin_sz> later dude
[21:45:13] <robin_sz> could be pulse shape t the drive, checked for ripple and hum on the step/dir inputs?
[21:45:57] <anonimasu> no I havent but the other axis:es works..
[21:46:11] <anonimasu> there's nothing different with the wiring of that axis..
[21:46:17] <anonimasu> the axis have been running fine before..
[21:46:31] <anonimasu> although I've never milled anything other then foam..
[21:47:43] <robin_sz> well, 460 pulse per mm ...thats into a 10:1 microstepping drive?
[21:48:16] <anonimasu> yep
[21:48:21] <anonimasu> g240
[21:48:29] <robin_sz> ah, servos
[21:48:36] <anonimasu> no
[21:48:37] <anonimasu> stepper..
[21:48:49] <anonimasu> I have a stepper on z since my servo driver broke..
[21:48:51] <robin_sz> G201 is 10u stepper
[21:49:12] <anonimasu> err yeah its err
[21:49:15] <anonimasu> g210 is it..
[21:49:44] <robin_sz> oh, right
[21:50:07] <robin_sz> but thats a non ustepping drive .. 1 pulse = 1 motor step isnt it?
[21:50:29] <robin_sz> anyway,
[21:50:36] <anonimasu> it's a microstepping drive...
[21:50:44] <robin_sz> 1 motor turn = 4mm roughly?
[21:50:56] <anonimasu> no idea..
[21:50:59] <anonimasu> I dont have the gearing
[21:51:04] <anonimasu> I measured until it went 0.01
[21:51:12] <anonimasu> I havent converted the axis to ballscrew yet
[21:51:35] <robin_sz> you have no idea what the pitch of your Z axis screw is?
[21:52:14] <anonimasu> that's right
[21:52:16] <anonimasu> :)
[21:52:28] <anonimasu> g210 can do ustepping..
[21:52:56] <robin_sz> if you bypass the 901 board yeah
[21:53:03] <anonimasu> the only diff is that g210 has a pulse multiplier..
[21:53:08] <robin_sz> but liek who pays for a 901 board, then bypasses it?
[21:53:09] <anonimasu> it's a jumper..
[21:53:09] <anonimasu> :)
[21:53:50] <anonimasu> it's just ~37$
[21:53:52] <anonimasu> :)
[21:54:08] <robin_sz> well, next time you have $37 spare, send it to me ;)
[21:54:13] <anonimasu> heh no way..
[21:54:25] <anonimasu> I paid $120 for the shipping of my 3 geckodrives.
[21:54:29] <robin_sz> so 46 real pulses per mm
[21:54:43] <anonimasu> no 460..
[21:54:44] <anonimasu> :)
[21:54:58] <robin_sz> no ... 46 motor steps per mm
[21:55:38] <anonimasu> let me check..
[21:56:15] <robin_sz> all im trying to do is work out roughly you Z axis force available
[21:56:38] <robin_sz> I suspect its large compared to the effort of cutting plastic
[21:56:57] <anonimasu> oh..
[21:57:09] <anonimasu> the motor torque is about 1nm
[21:57:15] <robin_sz> ooh tiny
[21:57:22] <robin_sz> do they sell them that small?
[21:57:27] <anonimasu> eh?
[21:57:30] <anonimasu> or maybe 2..
[21:57:52] <robin_sz> 2 is closer to useably I guess
[21:58:10] <anonimasu> I have a mess in my head with numbers..
[21:58:10] <robin_sz> 1nm on a non-ballscrew ... could be friction
[21:58:17] <anonimasu> nah.. it's geared..
[21:58:30] <robin_sz> now he tells me ;)
[21:58:38] <robin_sz> roughly how geared? 4:1
[21:58:41] <anonimasu> first to a 4:1
[21:58:54] <anonimasu> then onto the machine where the unknown gearing is..
[21:59:01] <anonimasu> it's way too much torque to stall the axis by hand..
[21:59:05] <robin_sz> right
[21:59:28] <robin_sz> id consider redcuing the accel maybe
[21:59:28] <anonimasu> my servos has less torque then the stepper..
[21:59:32] <anonimasu> :)
[21:59:49] <anonimasu> and the table moves me then I try to push aginst it..
[22:00:09] <robin_sz> 1200mm/sec^2 might be a bit high with that gearing
[22:01:15] <anonimasu> the z axis wont see that kind of speed.. :)
[22:01:27] <robin_sz> speed?
[22:01:33] <robin_sz> accel!
[22:01:46] <anonimasu> hm.. so my accel is too high?
[22:01:59] <robin_sz> sounds like it might be
[22:02:17] <robin_sz> 0-100mm min at 1200 mm/sec^2
[22:02:36] <anonimasu> what'a good typical value?
[22:02:46] <robin_sz> thats 0-1khz in 0.1second
[22:02:55] <anonimasu> like 0.4
[22:03:17] <anonimasu> * anonimasu stashes money for a vital card and new drives
[22:03:24] <anonimasu> servos are neat.
[22:03:31] <anonimasu> :D
[22:03:52] <robin_sz> fiddle the accel values until 0-fullspeed on your Z is around half a second or so maybe
[22:04:02] <anonimasu> what's a good maxspeed for Z?
[22:04:19] <robin_sz> sigh .. depends on machine and gearing :)
[22:04:28] <anonimasu> sorry about asking lots.. but I have no idea how fast it should be
[22:04:56] <robin_sz> try slowing your accel, smooth things up a bit, see if that cures the missing steps
[22:05:05] <anonimasu> yeah I'll do that
[22:05:19] <anonimasu> I'll test mill in foam tomorrow.. so it'll be no big deal if it breaks..
[22:05:26] <robin_sz> a stepper should spin to a couple of khz in real steps, 20Khz usteps
[22:05:44] <robin_sz> but emc has issues with high step rates
[22:05:55] <anonimasu> yeah I noticed..
[22:06:07] <robin_sz> 10khz into a ustepper is a fair compromise
[22:06:12] <anonimasu> it ferrors at about 500mm/min..
[22:06:33] <robin_sz> yeah,
[22:06:38] <robin_sz> nbto quick huh?
[22:06:47] <robin_sz> I suspect you are overgeared maybe
[22:07:16] <robin_sz> stepper spining hard, machine barely moving?
[22:07:39] <anonimasu> oh, it does that on all axises..
[22:07:49] <anonimasu> I think emc fails to crank out enough pulses.. :)
[22:08:20] <anonimasu> and it ferrors because of that.. even though I have no feedback to emc..
[22:08:49] <anonimasu> I am kind of curious if I should buy a vital card or a g2002..
[22:10:27] <anonimasu> it'll have to wait though bought a vise a couple of days ago..
[22:10:46] <anonimasu> and I am waiting for my boaring(however you spell it) head to arrive
[22:56:25] <robin_sz> boring :)
[22:56:57] <robin_sz> a boaring head would be something to do with large wild pigs :)
[22:57:58] <robin_sz> not that it really matters, we know what you mean, but I guess you like to know the correct spelling maybe?
[23:08:25] <anonimasu> yeah.