right, off to go fiddle with some hardware
I hope that after this weekend I'll have a full mirror for the ISO's
paul_c: there was a nice discussion in here today
* paul_c scrolls through the logs
Oh buggerit... pc_op disconnected on the 3rd
* rayh is going for dinner.
* anonimasu yawns
* alex_joni joins him
I hope the guys from germany keeps in touch about the PWM problem tomorrow..
or modify their kernel to give me my damn pwm outs.
I hope I can get up in the morning ;)
what time is it there?
it's only 01:19 here
but I have a fever now..
I might get some production work for my mill soon
or well, I'll get production work if I get the mill running good enough
but the parts will be pretty advanced..
loads of toolchanges...
I am just thinking about stainless steel vs alu..
I am unsure which one that'd suit the app best..
alu might do as good as stainless..
athe moving parts will have plastic bushings anyway..
so I think stainless if overkill
I have a jig in my head for making 3x of the parts in one setup, to minimize toolchanges..
anyway.. I need to sleep now
* alex_joni is going to sleep
how's it going?
I've got a fever today
just resting and watching a movie right now
I'm not feeling very well too...
but I gotta work ;)
if I get a reply from the germans today I'll go to work
I'll probbly be working 24/7 to get this stuff ready on time
it's 2 weeks left on the deadline. :
yeah, but if the manufacturer fixed the damn pwm stuff..
it wont be a large problem..
but I think they have to write kernel routines to prioritize it above the other stuff..
no HW PWM?
no, but the cpu is at 64mhz so they've got cycles to spare
* alex_joni wants home
* anonimasu wants to work
I hate being sick.
boring work today
nah.. not boring
nah.. office work
I am making breakfast
I think I catched a flu
too cold outside ;)
how's the weather up there?
it's pretty cold outside..
* anonimasu sighs
I cant get this axis setup right..
joint following error is all i get..
somthing with my "UNITS="
ahhh... I thought you were meaning DISPLAY=axis
you're running open loop.. right?
only steppers, no feedback?
geckos.. and servos
but no feedback to emc...
yes that's right
ok, then following errors are because emc can't output pulses so fast
as it's supposed to
are you running emc1 or emc2?
that I cant output that many pulses..
depends on how fast your rt-rate is
I am just using the default settings
when does the following error appear?
only when jogging?
during G0 ?
during G1? what speed
as soon as I move the machine..
what units are you using?
I am using continous jog..
when I am testing it's inch..
but I should be running mm
ok, for jogging you have a slider called joint speed (axis speed)
smthg like that
yeah, I know..
dosent matter if i increase/have it at the default value
try decreasing the value
I get the error as soon as i move the axis
you say you have X and Y set up the same way?
in the .ini file?
the only difference is the backslash..
UNITS = 0.03937007874016
thats steps per inch..
backlash inside .ini ?
I don't think that works ;)
or no wait..
it does work..
it takes up the backslash before moving..
then it errors..
a lot of stepping parameters are now in core_stepper.hal
hmmm.. might be a backlash-problem
if you set backlash to 0 does it work?
hmmm.. you need to ask jmk
he'll help you set the axis up
did you try to run it without emc?
yes, only from HAL
no I have no clue on how to do that
[13:50:26] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/Hal_Introduction.pdf
the strange thing is that it works with the default UNIT settings in the ini
what is that? what value?
UNITS = 0.03937007874016
ok, and what's the value it doesn't work with?
how are you?
an0n: units=38023 doesn't make any sense
hm, I was told that units was steps per inch..
or that's the way I understood it..
0.000065748031" per step
but for emc2 those don't work
and you need to adjust the value inside core_stepper.hal
setp stepgen.0.position-scale 5080
replace that with 38023
same for stepgen.1 (Y-axis)
that makes more sense...
UNITS is the base value for the axis units (to adjust mm or inch)
* anonimasu sees hope again
position-scale is then the scale based on steps/user_unit (specified by UNITS)
how many steps do you need to travel an UNIT
ah, then I need to calc this into mm instead..
I'd run UNITS=1
(all over the emc.ini)
default = mm
and re-calc my scale to be steps per mm
* alex_joni giggles
you had some really big UNITS
and what's 2500 ?
the steps per inch
I wonder how you calculated that
2.5/0.000065748031(inches per step)
start over ;)
how many pulses/rev at the motor?
how far does the axis move by one turn?
4:1 to the screw
so 4 turns move 5 mm?
16000 pulses move 5 mm?
1600 pulses move 5 mm
yes somthing like that
if I remember it correctly its 0.0039 per step
ok.. there you have it
don't calculate in inch ;)
you'll end up using rounding
and that's bad
320 is the value you need to enter to core_stepper.hal
the z axis will be tricky...
since I dont have any specs on it..
you need to measure that
I just moved it until it went 0.01
nope stepper, the gecko I had for that axis died..
what geckos do you have for XY?
you need to make sure you don't have the multiplier set above 1x
I have the multiplier set to 5
set it to 1
that will take away my speed..
or the calcs won't be ok
no it won't
speed will come from emc
or leave it at 5x, but devide 320 /5
-> 64 pulses/mm
the encoders are 1000counts/rev
which becomes 2000 at the gecko..
so 400 / rev takes that into account
* alex_joni writes that down
my math is so bad..
I'll be back in a little bit, going to test this at the machine
I might go away
that reminds me of my favorite linux error message
"You don't exist! Go Away!"
I like that message
I got that once ;)
it's an error if access from an unknown PID is made
I love the message screen gives you when you kill a screen with somone inside..
"the dungeon collapses, and you die"
or somthing like that
my favorite quote: In a World without Walls and
Fences, who needs Windows and Gates?
Nice post Alex.
the one on the devlist?
still didnt help..
an0n: what's wrong now?
joint following error
hmmm.. do you have DEBUG set?
I think so
I get lots of messages in the console
can you record the output?
or better, can you send me the ini and .hal files?
alex_joni: Yes the dev list.
I could do that although later this weekend/tonight
the fever's going up again so I am going to lay down
you could start with a new one (from CVS)
and change only the position-scale
did that yesterday :)
I'll try that later I have the cvs version on the cd in the box
just untar/compile and try again
or just untar the config files
and leave the rest untouched ;)
hope you can go home soon
later I'll go to college and install a debian ;)
so I'll be online later
it's finally dark enough for me to use the projector..
been waiting for the sun to go down..
ah good, I'll try changing that later, and if I get error messages i'll save all of the files so you can have a look at it when you get time
mail them, and I'll take a look
* alex_joni gone home
$1066USD for a stepper driver for my stepper motor that I have.
5 phase, pentagon arranged winding. Patented by Oriental Motors.
evil bastards. They don't even have papers on how to make one a driver... BUT they do have papers on the two phase.
Anyone got any nema24 sized stepper motors they want to sell?
but good afternoon. :)
* alex_joni is installing debian
<-- looking for Nema 23 stepper motor, or "servo [nema 23]+ driver"...
A-L-P-H-A: What part of the world are we shipping this motor to.
you need a special anti-freezing version ;)
so from the US, it'd be best to ship via Priority.
USPS is fine.
I've got some little ones 100in/oz or so.
that'd be perfect... I'm doing driving a 100:1 worm.
I'm wondering if I could even use smaller.
4 wire and 8 wire. Not very strong but good enough to test.
let me see what I've got... I think I've got 6 tiny TINY steppers... like 1.5" frames.
Got some old floppy drives laying around. There is a stepper and screw in there.
3.5" I want, and still sometimes use [for turbocnc]
I thought about building a mill from floppy drives. 1" motion in three directions.
Wow, Dan Mauch has some cheap prices.
I'm going to take Paul out to the surplus place today
he says he can't lug any more stuff home on the plane, but we can always just look ....
it's called a shipping container. :) hehehe
Are we talking the boeing surplus store out in seattle?
or well, washington state at least.
no, SurplusGizmos in Hillsboro, Oregon
Oh, I thought he went to Washington state.
only as far as Portland
wanted to get some of the Sensoray cards to do driver for them....
Somebody used that vulnerability and got to my netscape...
onlything good on Dan Mauch's site worth buying is maybe that tach, and his steppers... everything else is overpriced. sad. oh ohwell.
Car is covered in ice this morning...
I had to salt my patio stone pathway today... I nearly slipped.
want to go back to Yosemote on the way south.
I missed the discussions on HMI & emc
could someone give me a recap ?
so did I, summary?
we (rayh, robin_sz, myself) talked a bit about HMI
and one of the conclusions is to create a layer (above emcsh for tkemc)
which contains all of the possible status/commands to and from emc-components (task, motion, io, etc)
and the GUI creator simply links one of those (they were called bricks, and the whole layer was called a wall) bricks
the brick defines the type it is, some default data, min/max values, etc
and the GUI creator (at a later stage even a user) simply selects those and puts them on a blank gui
for example there is a brick for speed_override
which contains the command for emc
status (value from emc)
Sounds like an OOPS model for tcl/tk
We are thinking of generalizing enough so that any kind of interface could use the same set or subset of status variables and commands.
Nice job Alex.
kinda like adding another layer of abstraction on top of NML ??
still sounds like every change in the guts of EMC will require changes in NML and everything that talks to NML
steve: we also talked about adding generic messages all over emc
I posted a note a bit ao to dev with a link. Let me get it.
those messages (deep in the emc-guts) can then be adjusted by the user without recompiling
I had a quick read of the pdf Ray..
After reading it. It seems to me that we include this info in a module much the same as hal includes stuff.
When that mod starts, it exports it gui info to some sort of, in their terms a catalog or dictionary.
* paul_c had some thoughts on NML messages..... It would be usefull to have some generic NML messages rather than one for each func.
Yes. Alex suggested that yesterday. In connection with the work he is doing on CL
it can be used for that too..
actually I was thinking about a generic function (with a subtype possible)
but the subtype selection to be made without recompiling
damit - I need to be around for the Sunday meetings...
what's the average/normal torque from an stepper ripped from a diskdrive?
We could handle this issue on a wiki page.
or at least provide a summary of irc.
paul_c: when will you be back?
allow a day or two to recover from jet lag
that means you'll be around for the next weeks sunday meeting...
I think we can pospone the talks till then
maybe think about it, to get things clearer
Sounds good to me...
In the meantime, whats the status with CL, emc, & comms ?
* rayh is wondering how the current work on CL might be applied to emc1 as well as emc2
If CL had a simple NML interface, there is no reason why it couldn't work with emc1
right now it hasn't
Right. The work that Alex had done is on all com through the hal.
I just added hal-pins to CL
but NML interface is needed too
CIA-temp447 is now known as CIA-7
paul_c: right now I did a quick hack to test if it's possible to link CL to HAL
and it works,
I had been thinking along the lines of having CL "pins" connected to NML messages
Both ways will work.
The nml approach allows for distributed processing.
The HAL approach for rt based logic in CL.
the HAL approach simply allows you the use of existing (future) HAL-drivers
and RT based logic
* anonimasu yawns
per: You around?
pemmet: you around
CIA-temp177 is now known as CIA-7
hehe, fun EMC,GPL discussion on Geckodrive forum
and where are you today?
oh well, thats my US geography goen then
nice little EMC/GPL discussion there on the geckodrive list
will look at that when I get home
is that soon?
did you leave the wrinkly with plenty of food?
she can fend for herself
or I can send food parcels over.
thats what I said about my goldfish ...
anyway, ive been having G2002 fun :)
sadly our SILLY_FUNCTION_NAMES have infected that project too :(
You have the code - Change it.
yeah, I wnated too ... but hes about a year behind on the EMC interp or more
he wants to keep it the same so he can diff agisnt emc interp, without too much noise
The emc1 interp isn´t going to be developed much more...
Most of the work that I am doing will go in to the emc2 version
I've poitned this out
not pointed ?
I'll have to check
the EMC wiki has gone well
fat fingers, small keyboard. Or just too much wine ?
lack of care
So what was the response to the ¨poitned" comment ?
norra lot. I think he used the EMC1 codebase as the original source
dunno how hard it would be to patch agaisnt EMC2
hes doen a *lot* of work on it thats for sure
ive found a few bugs, and even patched a few
the C I can hack, the .asm ... not really anymore
Z80 code ?
much the same
it does work nicely though, apart from a few minor things ..
how smart is the planner? segment blending and stuff like that?
its quite clever ...
there are effectively three planners ...
you mean three to choose from?
no .. three running in the system
one per axis?
sounds pretty complicated for a little microcontroller
and its got the EMC interpreter in there too rememebr
the planners are quite simple
the first is just a basic move planner
the second layer is a moving average queue smoother
the third is a bit nebulous .. but basically is a short moving average queue to provide a bit of jerk limiting
whatver, the result is smooth motion
* paul_c is heading off to scour the local surplus store(s)
there is Synergy CAD/CAM in BDI. is this a demo version of Stnergy?
did I miss anything?
nope... just scanned the messages, nadda.
* alex_joni installed a debian today
I think I'll make a tiny stepper driver. :) Half stepping only... but hey! :) it'll be on the cheap... just need to have someway to power it.
alex_joni, you do AVR programming right?
hmm... if I have a 4VDC 1.2A stepper motor... I think I'll need to give it hmm... how many volts to make it spin decent.
so I'll go 24VDC.
half stepping is pretty straight-forward to do
alex_joni, got 8 of them. :) http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/TI/TIP121.pdf
my connection is really flooded
I'm on dial-up here
hmm... how do I wire that to a 6 wires with the dakeng project. http://www.dakeng.com/u2.html
how many phases does your motor have?
I just pictured it in my head.
4 wires, [series or parallel]
then you can connect the dakeng
that's basically a 4-bit counter
yeah, 6 wires, but only use 4... [series or parallel]
just had to picture it in my head.
gotta remember how it's coiled.
dang, I think my batter for my mouse is going to die soon.
second time today I needed to reconnect it
acemi - The Synergy on the BDI is the full version
alex_joni, if I'm using the tip121, I don't need that diode that the DAK schematic has do I? [right where the NPN transistor is]
you don't need it
it's integrated in the tip121
* alex_joni goes to bed