* robin_sz has played more with the G2002 now :)
if as many people as viewed the Wiki, edited or added to the Wiki, it would be about 8 times the size and with 1/10th the number of spelling mistakes by now :)
robin_sz... wanna pass me the g2002? :) I got my mill up... just have to power it on... and I'll do that in a bit... watching science news.
where's the wiki for the g2002?
yay.. USB zip drives work with BDI-4.12
* robin_sz sighs
hmm ... this Dynamic C compiler seems to need a 'serial number' ... whatever that is
* robin_sz tries 'com 3'
CIA-temp045 is now known as CIA-10
CIA-temp927 is now known as CIA-7
Hello anyone here?
I'm kinda here... but going to my shop in a sec.
Do you know if powerpath is supported in RHEL 3.0? Can it be used with Oracle?
probably the wrong channel to ask
maybe you want #redhat or something?
* A-L-P-H-A is lost
per redhat, it would not support emc software.
I don't know what powerpath is, but this channel isn't about RHEL or Oracle
is this channel about emc.com?
#emc is not related to the software described here: http://www.oracle.com/ecostructure/blueprint_res/design_components_powerpath.htm
#emc is about software that controls CNC machines
sorry, wrong place ..
cradek was talking about an interesting idea earlier: full-stepping is supposed to give more torque than half-stepping, but the problem is that motor resonance means the motor loses torque at a particular RPM speed
so why not use full-stepping except at the resonance frequency, possibly by manipulating the full/half step input of the stepper controller
interesting graphs at http://www.euclidres.com/apps/stepper_motor/stepper.html
[03:19:54] <jepler> http://www.sapiensman.com/step_motor/stepping%20motors.htm#resonance
power on... NOTHING blew! :) hehe good.
my vacume system sorta works :)
I dont have the power to pull through my little tube filter things so who knows how it will work once I blast but its cool :)
jepler: I guess we're the only ones who thought it was interesting
im not at the console to check much out tonight
sweet, It works perfectly
gezr, the blast cabinet?
its not a perfect seal, and the damn wood is self destructing a bit but other then that, its really easy to see, easy to get to the work piece, and its really nice, I have new suction tube to install, and new air line to the gun to install, the sections I have now are really short, and my breath is fogging up the glass
oh and my super suck, doesnt really have the suck, but I dont see any leaks into the atmosphere so Im happy :)
gezr, so you should have used sheet metal? :)
of course :)
I knew that from the get go
but for let me see, can I exclude tools I had to get?
well... my mill powers up... haven't sent it a Zaxis step/direction pulse yet...
well for about 200 I save 800 bucks :)
gezr, harbour frieght has cheap sheet metal benders from time to time.
they'd usually do the trick
this thing only has to last for abour 10 more parts :)
oh... that's silly now to me.
why is that?
and sweet about your mill :)
umm... it's like why not just pass it to some bodyshop to sandblast the parts for you? [or did you have fun building it?]
I just wanted to have the fun building it, and if I make a mistake its my mistake :)
what did you use for the transparent window?
tempered glass about 1/4 inch thick with a mylar liner stuck on the inside
I guess if I included my time on the thing, it just got really expensive, but I got to do stuff Ive never really done before
that's cool though.]
For me, I have access to a bodyshop to get stuff sandblasted... it'd just be me bringing some beer. :)
I dont know many shops, Im sure i could find one to do it, or do it at, this setup is perfect, just the right pressure everything
glad it worked out for you.
i have to go to sleep now, clean up time tommrow, then back to rebuilding :)
'ight... all axis on the mill are running. :) SWEET
now to measure the backlash.
* anonimasu yawns
* anonimasu yawns
I am writing a algorithm for positioning a huydralic cylinder..
for a racecar for a handicapped guy
somthing like a PID loop..
if expected position is higher then the position apply more gain to make up for it
good morning alpha
hey, I got a question, electrical.
You know how AC, there's a live, dead and ground.
Lets say I'm making a power supply... I have the dead and live going to a transformer...
Wall Socket -> Transformer (120VAC to 60VAC) to a bridge rectifier -> to some medium sized caps to filter out the DC current.
Now my question is, I know I should hook the ground from the wall to frame of the case,
which in turn is touching the transformer.
My question is should I hook the ground/NEGATIVE on the bridge rectifier / DC segment to the chassis/wall ground as well? Is this the proper way?
I have no idea really
neither do I :(
I think you should hook your ground off the socket to the chassis..
that was said. :)
since you have voltage on your bridge rectifier -
but my question is should the DC segment of the ground/negative hook to the chasis?
[09:20:02] <anonimasu> http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/AntBk.pdf
there might be somthing in there..
I'd look a bit more at it or get ahold of my father and ask him..
but since I am working I dont have lots of time :/
I'm thinking of hitting the dollar store, and buying candles to melt to mill. Reusable material... just melt it to a block... screw up... melt it again, and do play again.
that'd be a good idea
Cheap, and reusable.
and no worried of breaking a end mill...
you can buy wax for candle making in blocks, usually like 20lb blocks for much less than candles
WHAT? really... hmm... k, hit the craft store instead... but that's out in the east end...
20 lb BLOCKS?
the candle making shops also sell some stuff,
hmm... :) hehe... fun.
that you melt in with it, and it makes hard wax
sodium stearate maybe??
I was thinking of just using some pam, and a muffin tray, or a bread loaf tray.
pam = oil spray.
what would you recommend?
I'm just thinking ease... and what I could do with a 1200Watt heat gun.
you want suggestions ;)
I asked. :)
I do'nt know if I'll get.
wax and an old pan
that's what I was thinking already... dollar store has cheap stuff like that... but how much would 20lbs of wax cost?
less than 20lbs of candles
wahtever, maybe dollar stor is nearer
work is so crowded today :/
I've got suppliers for candles and stuff around here... just found them in the yellow pages.
stearic acid is the hardner,
now all I have to do, is wait 4 and half hours before they open.
$7 for a 5lb bag
anonimasu, go postal... :)
think I'll need the hardener, if I just want to mill through it?
I'm just probably doing this to do test parts... not for casting... [which I will probably do later]
a-l-p-h-a: I work for my father's company..
a-l-p-h-a: going postal would be bad idea :)
yeah, probably then.
if you want to inherit the company and all.
but I got like 3 words out of him about what I am working on
wow... COMMUNICATION! awesome. :)
a quick search reveals candle making shops sell wax for around $1 / lb
a-l-p-h-a: usually it's better then this, but today is full :)
what do you guys do/make?
I program PLC's..
err and interfaces for them
I did realtime data logging for a paper mill... I know a little about them... but it's been like 5 years since I did it.
used the output from the plcs, and stored them in a database.
hmm. 11lb blocks seem to be the standard
right now, I am building some control algorithms for controlling the clutch for a racecar for a handicapped guy
robin_sz, what kind of wax as well.
this place had allsorts! .. like 30 kinds
what's the website?
[09:36:43] <robin_sz> http://www.swanscandles.com/wholesale.htm
higher mlet poitns are harde
it's fun :)
high melting point waxes are harder in nature.
is that what you ment?
too early to type straight :)
it's 4:42am here. :(
go to bed
can't... too excited about my mill working. :)
know hwen you were a little kid, and when you got a new toy... that was soooo cool, you couldn't sleep and just played with it?
I am still that way..
hm, actually I only need a PI and not a derevative control loop for this :)
I dont think I need a correction map either..
the precision of the measurements will be about 0.024 at the cylinder..
seems the G2002 has a slight desing fault ...
the interrupt rate is too high
1ms. the moving average queue is 128 bytes long, so thats 1/8th of a second
it can only do truly predictive stops if your machine can go from full speed ot dead stop in 1/8th of a second
have you told mariss about it?
yeah, its on the list
furtunately, the interrupt rate is jumperable
unfortunately, it does 1ms (1024hz), 2048, 4096 and 8192
fast, too fast and much too fast :)
will that be taken care of in the next rev?
who knows, might be solvable in software
skip alternate interrrupts
I just spent like 40 minutes packing up something.
actually, an hour.
* robin_sz does happy dance
new 'puter has arrived :)
tell me it's not a mac mini
its a Dell :)
* A-L-P-H-A nods.
Dell's are good.
I've had a nice laptop from them.
mmmm. that they are
that I put through hell.
me too :)
inspiron 8000 for me
I had an inspiron 3800, like 5 years ago.
maybe even longer
yeah, they are great
2000. so 5.
new machine is a dual 2.8 ghz Xeon
work paid for most of it, and let me keep it when I left.
I'm not too big of a fan of intel.
its that or sun I guess
I like amd
always have... better bang for my buck.
got a nice sun box with 4 blades, that works
Time: 05:57:14 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (63% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 711/1024MB (69.43%), C: 59.84gb of 75.42gb free, D: 23.56gb of 39.05gb free, E: 135.81gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 2wks 4days 17hrs 58mins 3secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 6hrs 56mins 16secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
crap... what keeps taking up so much memory????
amd, I have "issues" with amd sometimes
easy, thats "windows"
err. virus scanner = 52megs. java = 48megs. outlook = 44 megs. firefox = 40 megs. acrobat = 38 megs. word = 32 megs. mirc = 20 megs. explorer 21meg.
we looked at a dual opteron box, but went xeon in the end, now .. if I can just get Debian to recognise the raid controller ....
I am determined to get this bracket finished today.
need to buy some 1-2-3 block set, a Vblock set. what other toys? :)
store opens in another 2 hours! :)
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another machine nicely killed :)
nice new dell, ran for 90 minutes, committed suicide
huh.. what happened?
its ... well, dead.
call tech support.
done that, they had me strip the machine right down to parts
still wont post
enginneer is on his wway :)
* alex_joni is worn out...
I am going out to look at the car I am building this stuff for tonight
I'm going home
triying this tomorrow
sigh ... I was so looking forward to playing with that server too!
* robin_sz restores the damage done by some wiki spammer
again? first time its happened init?
I cleaned up one thing yesterday
I assumed someone else cleaned up more
maybe we need a password
I'll firewall it of from the tw*t that did it anyway :)
it was a dynamic IP yesterday, so that won't do any good.
I was planning on firewalling the entire /24
ive removed the old wiki.pl script
only the emcinfo.pl script is in place now
ipchains -A input -l -s 22.214.171.124/16 -d 126.96.36.199/24 -j DENY
ok, I took the mention of the old path off the main page
perhaps a public non-editable one, and a page with a nice gif showing the password and link to the editable one.
the only good thing is, it only takes moments to put it back the way it was ... just view the previous version, edit it and save it.
I wouldnt mind, but it was just a load of pr0n links ..
and they are all crap!
without using <pre> how do I make a string in the middle of a line a fixed-width font?
I think I might have set the editing password ...
if anyone cares, select preferences, and enter 'emc' as your password :)
I can edit the front page without a password
now all pages say they are read-only
"""Isn't using steppers like using MS Windows? hehe- jk.
I filled that out last time (I was user 1020)
change your pw to emc
now it says I am 1021
oh it's not saved in my cookies, it's just for that session?
steppers sure are simple...
I thought it was saved in cookies
cradek: don't you use a proxy that makes most cookies session cookies?
it's not working for me...
jepler: ummmm I don't remember
ok, not password then, administrator password
password is something else
ok that worked
I'll add a note to the 'howto' ...
are you going to put in a gif that tells how to edit?
I'll piut it in the BasicSteps
im assuming it is being done by spamming bots, not humans
humans are easier to keep up with
jepler: well I like steppers too. They're cheap and easy and can certainly move a machine around.
I don't have any idea of the speeds a servo-based system would provide
for the same money, approximately 0 ipm
at the low $ end, you get more bang from steppes than servos for your buck
at the high end .. well, steppers dont do high end
robin_sz: you can get some awfully big steppers
that said, a bige NEMA 42 stepper, expecilly a neo magnet one
driven with many amps and big volts is pretty damn impressive
they are very powerful but just can't give the same rapid speed
well, if you gear them right ...
if you plot the load graph of a system it goes sorta
I guess my steppers are still pretty darn strong spinning at 500rpm
the torque graph of a stepper goes -\
so the right gearing would give a nice rapid rate
what I need is the Dynamic C compiler ..
well, the serial number anyway ;)
your minutes must have a different number of seconds than mine
it was an egineers aproximation
I know, just teasing
I think I have 3.3kHz step rate (8000 steps/inch 25 inch/min)
Morning Paul. I see the wiki got locked down. Did we get more that the one spam?
the password is 'emc' in the administrator password box in preferences
as detailed on the 'basics' page
Could you tell if they used the wiki or the emcinfo address?
I could if I looked :)
I am hoping that the emcinfo address would be sufficient. Logging in will deter minor edits.
todays was all wiki.pl
once youve set it in your prefs, its sotred in a acookie
Guess I will have to let your cookies slip through... 8-)
you should not need to worry about it ever again??
ooh, you cookie blocker you
when you run M$ shit you have to be very careful
you can unlock the site if you want
im not that fussed
you'll need the admin password to do that ...
any consensus on unlocking it, anyone here?
admin pw lets you add people to the banned list by ip too
i'll be happy if its twice the size by this time next week
I did a lot of editing to get special characters to display, but not sure what or if anything should be done in your short URL examples on the Basics page.
not caring that much
I guess the WiKi wise will understand the quirks.
I place higher importance on the EMC info
and higher importanc on content over presentation anyway
agreed, but I want to help and I am not much use on compile/install stuff
well, you;re doing just fine then :)
all Ive doen is copy and paste stuff
nothing grows without a seed
we could do with adding some info on jmk;s HAL stuff
knowledge base is looking good !
JMK will probably jump in over the weekend
for that matter, we have not announced the WiKi on the list yet, wanted to get a seed there first, guess we are ready enough?
looks seedy to me
just announced the WiKi on the developers list, let it build a bit then announce on users list
* paul_c makes a few small edits to the wiki.
stevestallings2: re your questions: I *think* you can do 99% of that with a style sheet, but its just running te 'usemod' wiki script, google for usemod and you have all the info youlll ever need
found it and tried to message you, only to find I was disconnected yet again 8-(
CIA-temp160 is now known as CIA-7
CIA-temp192 is now known as CIA-7
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CIA-temp173 is now known as CIA-7
m eeeee p
just missed another ice storm
is that good?
temp exactly 32 all day
blimey, thats hot.
70 plus over here...
yeah loosing power is not good
70's where my folks live
so, hows the resident painter?
Well there was not time in the customer's scedule for me to make a painting bot
so you bought one
so we just worked out a deal in a meeting a little while ago
No...my customer will take the units unfinished for now
and he will outsource a quicker but not as good finish
so, thats your sander laid off then
After the hunting season is over I will then build the paint bot
No I had to work that out....we will sand
His work load will actually go up
Since I will be running the machine more
Trying to look at my figures for how much painting costed
but hes only got one sand now
I get $1.58 total finishing
at 1.3 burden rate
(as a painter I make $10/hr)
but 0.50 is the first sand
will still do that
So I can drop the price by .094 for sanded but unfinished
But that begs the question...I seem to be doing finishing with no profit
well by that analysis
Before it had to be done to get the big value added of cnc machining
So a bot will have no profit with it's operation?
hmm I had better fudge some numbers so it looks ok haha
Customer loves the finish but realizes that the cnc operator being a painter is what's killing us
I am happy about this...I think
So then every 3 min 20 sec the emc will make...
hmmmm $82.90 /hr....that's only kinda ok
OK enough of this accounting bs haha
this is weird... I can't set my backlash...
I move it 0.02" the same direction as it was setup.
Do you really need it?
Move back 0.02" and it's reading 0.002". Fine. So I set the backlash to 0.002" in software.
and when I go back and test it again... I move in the same direction, and test it again I still get 0.002" backlash... after setting it 0.002" [and yes backlash comp was turned off to begin with]
stupid ball screws.
the other axis I get something stupid like 0.0001" of backlash... the needle just moves a hair. so I set that to be zero.
well I could see where it might be usefull...but for 3-d contouring I have to consider thar backlash error has a rectangular probabiliy density
that not thar
les, what does that mean? "rectangular probabiliy density"
It means lost motion IN GENERAL can not be predicted
A-L-P-H-A : how are you testing, down then up, then back down, or from up to down then up?
In special cases it can
like straight lines
but cut a circle and....
I don't have backlash but I do have stick slip
thats a fun one
max position error I get from that is about 0.0002 in
I could prob make it go away with careful feedforward tuning
A-L-P-H-A : you may be a bit tight, try moving the axis a full inch or so
integral helps to but there is a limit to how much one can use
gezr, I tried moving 0.050"...
I'll try a full inch.
servo right alpha?
it's repeatable though...
I tried for like 30 minutes, at different (albeit only 1" different) spots.
1" away from that spot.
like the backlash is 0.002 to 0.0018" at different locations.
steppers + gecko g201 + ball screws
Sounds about right for a rooled screw
yeah, they were rolled.
hey! I can afford rolled. I can't afford ground
$200 setup, versus $3000 setup.
I use the hiwin precision rolled with oversize balls
les, how much?
2.5 meter screw with 2 nuts was $380 last time I checked
1/4-20 allthread is cheaper
but oversize ball preloading may not last as long as other metods
I had about 1.25meters, 1"dia. with two nuts, for I think, $180USD + shipping.
I do have another ballscrew, which I may use to physically compensate
I checked the lead accuracy of the HIWIN screws and it was much better than spec
with a die spring, or a disc spring between the two nuts.
wwhat little error there is is just a constant pitch error
can be mapped out
Without access to the screws, I can�t tell you the lead accuracy. However, the lead accuracy tolerance for all rolled screws (the kind we make) is +/-.003 - .008� per ft. and we are usually at the low end of this range.
ROTON PRODUCTS, INC.
Yes I use bellville preload on one bearing end
Oh you work for Rotron?
Oh yeah, I don't have a support for the other end.
No, that's Dear Lloyd... it was to me.
it was addressed to me, by a Guy named S. Allen Lochmoeller
nice people at roton.
pleasant to deal with.
I dont think what your seeing is in your screw
I would imagine with oversize ball preload that the balls themselves are the firtst thing to go
gezr, probably not... it's probably my CRAPPY bracket on that axis.
I'm gonna make a new one for it asap.
.002 isnt crapy
well, the other doesn't have any backlash... though that bracket is nice. :) hehe
if I was you, and things are working, ide run it for a while, and evaluate what types of modifications are needed
anyone have a Z-axis design for a drill/mill they don't mind sharing?
so far, I'm thinking of mounting a acme screw (3/8-10tpi acme, non-standard), and spinning the nut.
thats a wicked small screw
I have 1/2-10tpi acme, with a acme tap and all.
BP mount a massive hollow ballscrew to the top of the quill and spin the nut..
flying screw is a sweet design, several machines use that method
must be made for it though
hmm... maybe I'll get 3ft of precision ground 1/2-10tpi acme... and use that.
I'm spinning it with a stepper, how fast could I get?
and special construction so grease does not sling out
If you're going for ground screw, why not use ball rather than acme ?
Not that fast I guess...but it still helps some by not having to machine ballscrew ends
cause i'm worried about the z-axis falling down when I power off the machine.
precision ground acme is cheap, and I can make brass gears with an XL timing gear patter, and an acme tapped hole inside.
meet MR spring
10pitch shouldnt freewheel
5 is just on the edge
I was soooooo impressed when I did that. it was SO neat to me.
yeah, 4 will, but 10 has a waht 4deg helix?
ALPHA: who machine your ballscrew ends?
my neightbour bought in with me the roton ball screws... and he wanted to replace the acme nut (which was messed up, but he fixed) on his X carriage ways.
les, I did. I machined them on my friend lathe. (die grinder to get the hardening off, and then machined them round.)
I machine ballscrew ends in house ...but it's not fun
I was saying, his nut cost $90USD, and the screw cost like $10-15 bucks only.
we have someone with an acetyline torch now, so we'll just anneal them this time around.
wet rag + burn technique.
I use an angle grinder to cut through the case hardend bit
that's what we did.
ball screws are 20% stronger then cut threads, you could aneal them in an oven right under the broiler for a while
then Themac tool post grinder
rolled threads that is, man im tired
we didn't ground finish the ends...
get close and sandpaper and a mic works too
The HIWINs are 4140 cr/mo
Rockwell C 58 - 60 outside
C40 or so inside
so one can cut threads ok
well, if I ever do another conversion (which I may soon, if I have money) I'll get the hiwins.
les, have you done an Z axis conversion? Any tips?
Alpha: I design the machines rather than convert...
but am about to do a Bridgeport
I'm still thinking the flying nut design... So, it'd be plate, bearing, nut/gear, bearing, plate, bracket. Bolt the plates together.
So heheh I'll let you know
Flying nut is very nice but very expensive
how's the very expensive?
Well I can only speak for commercial apps but
the transmission etc cost a bunch
I have some drawn up
the gear I was thinking, was just an XL gear belt...
this guy... sec.
parts cost about $1000/axis for commercial stuff
for the transmission
and that is if you machine it
[22:34:44] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.homecnc.info/Pics/800z-axis-installed.jpg
I love how he tucked it inside.
looks like acme
I think it's actually a ballscrew
must go out for a sec...brb
he sells the plans for $45 bucks, which is a little expensive to me, just for plans.
his servo prices aren't that bad... but I'm sure I could find cheaper.
his servo's don't even include encoders either.
Stupid telemarketers... "Can you please take us off your list" "Can I take 3 minutes of your time" "Can you please take us off your list" "it'd just take 3 minutes of your time" "Please take me off your list" "you don't have 3 minutes you can spare?" <hang up>
A-L-P-H-A: Wanna talk, gimme a credit card number so that I can bill you for the time wasted.
Usually works for me ;}
haha. :) They were doing a survey... supposedly. I didn't know or hear it... I was just annoyed.
usually their nice and say "sure, no problem" but this person was annoying.
If you want to get rid of telemarketers - waste THEIR time
I admit, it takes a weird kind of calm to do that
But I have a friend who did that
Got 'em talking, then "Can you hold on a minute?"
Came back twenty minutes later, they were still there
Talked with them some more, then "Hang on, I have to take care of something."
Get a sandwitch, do some stuff...
they hang up after a little while I think.
He came back twenty minutes later, and they were still there
I think it was the third time
He's really unhappy, though
who? your friend, or the telemarketer?
He doesn't have ANY telemarketers call him anymore ;)
Can't imagine why
He's such a friendly guy...
who's the English bloak, "knackered" was the word... I just remembered.
someone that started with an S. or had an S in their name.
I could look in my logs.
Hm, I wonder...what's the exact definition/origin of the word 'bloke'?
British slang - sometimes, just sometimes, you don't wanna know
I think I'm on someone's list now... 2nd telemarketer!
this time it was a recording.
Dang automation - it makes it harder to mess with them
I was thinking of just leaving the phone and just have them get billed for the long distance time.
I was thinking of hooking up a linux system with Festival and a simple automaton
automation of what?
Just a simple script
Maybe something along the lines of Eliza...
You know, text -> speech
oh. ALICE! :)
are you sure it's Eliza? and not Alice?
Oh, it's called ALICE now?
I could be wrong.
No, I think you're right.
ALICE might be the IRC chatbot version
yeah, I think IM, yahoochat and stuff.
Make something really dumb - just sample audio input, detect pauses when they're expecting an answer, and have it say "Huh?" "Could you repeat that?"
"Where's my thribble?"
or .. just ignore them
life is too fscking short
Man, where is that link?...
Speaking of making robots to do things a human can do...
I think it was called "robotoilet" or somesuch
No, that's not it...
Bah, can't find it