alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
a common people, seperated by timezones
Set your clock to GMT, end of problem ;}
but that doesn't change the fact it;'s still morning :)
the flakey install went south, for good
New emc package uploaded to the repository.
gezr: cant you do the valve job yourself?
if you dont have to change valve seats and guides its not that much work
anonimasu: lots of memory (shm), if i remmber correctly
slomo: for what?
finally to the point of emc not starting at all
slomo: changing seats are expensive..
"lots of memory (shm), if i remmber correctly"
what do you mean
started emc from cl, it loads the modules, errors out with the above
oops lack of shm
so now i'm using bdi-tng
You didn't want to give BDI-4.08 a try then ?
if it has an initrd and lilo, i'd love to
this fsking scsi will not accept grub as a boot loader
grub is the default loader.... But the initrd image is generated..
well, i'll give it a shot then
before i blew away the flakey install, i did get to exercise the the motors, hooked up to the router.....
got the best performance using the sherline inch setup
morning or afternoon all
it's 0 dark:30 here
Daylight has snuck in over here, got itself a coffee, and now sits in the corner. It gives me the finger whenever I glance over.
paul_c: I've just tried to apt-get the .debs from the ntlworld.com repository into Live rc46 hd install
The whole console backlog is filled with "depmod: Unresolved symbols in /lib/modules/2.6.9-adeos/.....
did it work ?
which package produced the errors ?
I think that was the kernel image
Okay...just a quick overwrite of the few files in /usr/local/emc...and it's done
Is a initrd.img necessary? If so, I think I may have to add debian-Sarge repositories into the sources
I just started with the sources.list that was installed
check that module-init-tools is installed.
That's right, I forgot that this is a transition from a 2.4 to a 2.6 kernel
Man, you gotta love apt - it's even better than urpmi :)
asdfqwega: so did you get emc to run ?
Short of adding a dependency for module-init-tools... But that would require rebuilding the kernel package, and may break on a future build...
paul_c: did you just update the repository this morning with emc_0.0.10 ?
I just updated, and it was getting emc_0.0.9 - and couldn't find it :P
emc-0.0.1-10 has additional dependencies for tcl & tk wich were missing from earlier builds.
No changes to the source code though.
Hm, do I want to be brave or stupid, and do an apt-get upgrade?
* paul_c suspects KDE-3.3 may break things...
I had to cut out the 3 experimental repositories out of the sources.list
synaptic certainly doesn't work as well as it did.
They just weren't there
back after lunch
I'm going to follow an old rule of thumb [also know as "Rules to prevent losing thumbs"]
"Go almost, but not quite, too far."
paul_c: I've managed to make an initrd.img for the 2.6.9-adeos kernel
And just now I've tried running depmod
And I'm not certain if everything is OK...
A long string of "This modules needs that modules", and nothing seems to have changed
check the status of the kernel-image package
dpkg says OK
* asdfqwega goes to satisfy addiction to dihydrogen monoxide
Hmmm.... Coffee & fag....
paul_c: Why does the grub menu.lst have a bunch of hdx=scsi entries?
This is something I've noticed now that I've started playing with Debian/Knoppix
It's to handle and IDE drive like it was SCSI, right?
Why would that be necessary?
It's probably not necessary
It is probably to make CD burners work -- you need 'hdx=scsi' for that, at least in kernel 2.4 and before
Using Mandrake, I only used to have to add an ide-scsi item for CD burners - but even that's become depreciated
for bdi-live it specifies hdx=scsi for every drive since it can't autodetect the CD burner
The Live grub menu was designed as a "catch all" without resorting to kudzu.
* asdfqwega working in linux = one shell open to work, n number of shells for man pages
I was just debating switching it over from grub to lilo
grub is easier to work with...
For you, perhaps; I'm already quite familiar with lilo
The menu.lst format is pretty straight-forward
I'm just not certain if I'm ready to change it
if you ever need to add a new kernel, only menu.lst needs updating
no re-installing to the MBR
Hm...there's a miniroot.gz in /
That would be for the 2.4.25
[16:32:58] <slomo> http://cimweb.cim.fh-aalen.de/emc/bdi-4.08.iso
= 12+ hours to go ?
You lucky dog, only 12+ hours?
I can do short bursts for apt-get on my satlink, but the .iso would take a full week
asdfqwega: That miniroot.gz can be deleted.
* paul_c has a 10Mbit connection to download BDI-4.08.iso over.
paul_c: is that the 81.100 addy ?
Grub: Error 11: Unrecognized device string
behind a firewall on the local network.
paul_c: i'm not familiar with that procedure
paul_c: i think i've got it, but it's about the same time
asdfqwega: try this : http://www.fifi.org/doc/grub-doc/html/grub_11.html#SEC31
asdfqwega: figure it out ?
Not really...I wouldn't work, and then I tried using the grub command line.
I put in the right stuff, and booted it up. Then I checked grub's menu.lst, and nothing was wrong, so I booted it again.
And then it worked just fine.
I can see the advantage of a command line in the bootloader
asdfqwega: so are you still getting depmod errors ?
I just tried to start EMC Generic, and it fails to load with a long string of rtai_alloc errors
I think I may have to remove the old /usr/local/emc directories and re-install the .debs
paul: would the emc .deb need anything in /usr/local/rcslib?
asdfqwega: the 2.6.9 EMC deb uses libnml and no longer uses anything in loca/rcslib
isnt that enough?
Happy new year & all that jazz.
* picnet is 11 days late.
storms hit uk yet?
yup - Quite breezy
been iffy here also.
must find out how heavy the gantry on his router/mill is ...
just for info
been working on a design for a hi-def plasma / router
as in high resolution?
hm, fine-beam plasma..
is what they call it in sweden
the 'hi definition' plasma uses mixed gases instead of air, gets a narrowerm sharper cut
still a way off laser .
hm, they have other nozzles also..
* robin_sz nods
but well, laser dosent compare to plasma in input/output power
? ... bout the same no?
most high def plasam are around 200A @ 120V
I have no idea
My projects halted right no, no space to build the machine. Im toying with the idea of cnc'ing the sieg X2 instead.
that sounds like a small unit
I guess most lasers are similar sort of input powers
picnet: dou your wife and kids sleep inside the house?
picnet: do you have tables and chairs in your living room?
but what does a laser that'll cut 2" cost ;)
* anonimasu is curious
well, lets cut out this 'no room' nonsense then :)
oh loads and loads
infact .. I think youd need ... at least ... 6kw
my plasma cuts galvanised sheet cleaner than my laser
* paul_c wonders who 18.104.22.168 is....
lemme guess.... anonimasu ?
anonimasu is in .se
must be slomo hammering my bandwidth then..
the name is japanese
not a very original word
I've been an0n for as long as I can remember..
and a guy at a lan was named the same..
although without zero..
so I changed nick
Was he the imposter?
but it was time to change anyway
insert him into the matter transporter and press "go"
I thought about it..
mills are great! ^_^
I dont care that much
send random invitations to the klepomanic society to go visit his house?
I were thinking about changing nick
it just was the final little push
* paul_c edits index.html
yep, that ip is slomo
[21:05:59] <picnet> http://members.cox.net/kdntool/_sgg/m3m2s2_1.htm
Humm x2 mod kit.
after work rest is almost over, cleaning up time
anything interesting happen today?
* paul_c needs to get on a retro-fit a lathe, but.....
udated emc package available from the repository.
hey, any of you seen the new cd printers?
I bet one of those could print the boxes to make an effective encoder
it may not have supreme resolution but It could be done
what is special about these printers?
they print directly to a disk, not a label maker
so, if you are ripping stuff in mass production, they speed up the process :)
oh cool I have 11 nixie tubes :)
oh my gosh, I own too much junk
but nixies aren't junk
* cradek also has a stash of nixies
I ahve a friend making a nixie stopwatch
well, more a stop-big-wooden-box
I've made several clocks, one that even sets automatically from WWVB and shows time and date
uh huh ...
it's pretty cool
made it about 3 years ago
you have *wwway* too much free time
it's been running ever since
robin_sz: huh? what's free time?
I have at least 50lbs of resistors and capicators
we got rid of a lot of leaded componente recently,
no use for much these dyas
did a 'deal' with a guy, we got some transformer wire, he got 'a couple of boxes of components'
except .. we filled a double-axle transit van to the roof :)
you wind transformers?
still have the winding machines
I've always wondered how those are wound
well, you take a donut ...
and you wrap it in wire :)
got machines for teeny little cores right up to 3KVA or more
you must pass a spool of wire throught the donut?
you really wanna know
is it a big secret?
yeah I want to hear this
ok, so donut ... sits on machine gripped by 3 rubber rollers .. horizontal plane OK ...
there is a ring, in the vertical plane, it splits, like two C shapes when its open
when you close it it passes through the donut ..
like 2 rings joined OK?
ok so far
the ring is a spool in effect, it spins round on its axis driven by some rollers that it its in
right now .. its an empty spool
so .. first you fill it with the exact amount of wire you need for the first winding
ring spins, wire is fed on ..
when the right amount is on ... you snip the wire, tape the inner end onto the core and the ring starts spinning again
this warps the wire from the inner of the ring/spool thing onto the core
the core rotates at just the right rate to lay it all down nicely
sorta like a horizontal and a vertical circle
each rotating around each other right?
what is the split for?
IFF you get it right, when the wire runs out it will be JUST where you started, so your two end are in the same place
les: so you can get the core in in the first place
it doesnt fit through the center of the core
I was thinking that at first, its goes around the core
like a hand holding a ring
I don't understand how you wind it off the center of the vertical ring
no rollers and stuff, its a complex ring
robin_sz : its quickly feed on to the spool, then they rotated together as it feeds the wire on?
gezr: make an OK sign with each hand
robin_sz : yeah I understand it :)
gezr: link the two circles
its perfection :)
[22:28:24] <robin_sz> http://www.ingridwest.co.uk/wh/toroid/wh300pic.htm
thats a bigen
same as mine
except mine are german
hence motors burn out, foot pedals catch fire etc
the wires just sorta ride on each other for primary and secondary?
they could, but I think normally you put them on different sides of the torus
im going to run to the store, I have stuff to clean, if I dont get back at the cleaning, ill spend the rest of the night learning about transformers
more then meet the eye
autobots ......damn decepticons
cradek: no, that would be bad
cradek: you have to distribute the flux evenly in the toroid or Bad Things (tm) happen
So .. first theresa mylar tape
then the primary
then a mylar tape
then the secondary
you can do it all on the same machine, but we used to have a sperate machine set up just for tape
paul_c: hammering ? abuse ? explain please
* paul_c only has 128K to the outside world...
It will take you 12 hours or more to download bdi-4.08 from here.
no kidding ?
wget showing 6+ to go
paul_c: if i'm abusing or interfering let me know, i'll dico
You're OK at the mo - Running of a local mirror for my apt stuff.
paul_c: ok, thanks, if it a problem, let know, i'll quit, qnd resume laater
I'll be going to bed in an hour or so... No need to disconnect.
my alaska looks cold
[22:54:25] <robin_sz> http://22.214.171.124/axis-cgi/jpg/image.cgi?resolution=704x576&dummy=1105475208816
robin_sz: good pix, yes, about the view i've got
hello again all
how heavy is your gantry?
and how many watt servos?
2hp .. thats big
enough for 1 g
ok, and that gives you 1g and what max speed?
yeah .. its heavy
I really need to go to a coarser pitch if I keep doing wood
or use a rack and pinion machine
I never run that fast because I am spindle hp lmited
well 2.5 tpi would get me to 1200
but I need 12 hp at the spindle to cut at that speed
I suspect half the effort goes into spinning up the ballscrews
the sem motors are actually capable of 3.6 kW
that would need a BIG drive
yes on x half the inertia is the twin screws and jackshaft...almost exactly
theres another advantage of rack and pinion :)
but it hoots along...
1g is 384 ips
19.2 inches from a standing still start in 0.1 second
just like falling
today I further attacked the emc jerk gouge
it is costing me several hundred a week
by gcoding around it?
here is what I did:
I thought of the impulse responce of a fir notch digital filter...
so I started a short carefully timed tangent lead in
that starts the vibration
I timed it so the jerk when circular motion starts hits at just the right time to "antivibrate" away most of the gouge
* robin_sz ponders
desperate is the word
any of you have an hp180 scope around and need another timer module?
hit a punching bag once and it bobs back and forth
hit it again with just the right timing and impulde and it stops...
except ..in emc, any attempt to do that is probably hammpered by the correction creating a jerk of itsown
now get it?
but .. if you *do* tune it out, then its worht trying
That's the whole idea...the corecction jerk mostly cancels the original
I am placing a zero NEAR the pole
but different distance to the real axis
occasionally near :)
no it times exactly the same every time
whoot, wife is home :)
but it doesnt stop the burning?
so I can make a repeatable "anti gouge"
it did help...and the gouge is almost gone
as I said...desperate
if only segmot did its thing :(
you need true jerk limiting, d2v/dt2
I was hoping it would blend a tangent line and circle
S curve accel
or any other name
what if you added a pulse to the no it would never work right
segmentque is cubic but in a circle there would be no jerks in blended arcs
to keep the drives going, say a constant pulse
but a very slow one,
yeah, thats why I stopped
dont even think about it
we need to be able to do arc-to-line and line-to-arc *at least* for tangents
What I am doing is adding the inverse impulse response
but all this is a work around of course
I know segmentqueue does that
until you can home with segmetqueue right?
and you cant really test while in production
a more general solution feeding the segemnts through a d2v/dt2 filter would be better .. its little more than a moving average routine really
what you need is an extra box to have handy
not too much
I have an extra box...but only one stg card
so .. its only the homing thats screwed on segmot?
les I was gonna say if I had a stg card it would be there for you to work with now
I dont own anything like that
Chris MAY have segmentqueue fixed and fully functional
but the current tree is BROKEN
but you have install issues right?
les : hold up, do you have a drive, servo, thats seperate from your machine?
machine being the gantry
it doesnt matter, I guess, same scenareo
gezr: no , but I sometimes use one of the 1300W audio amps in the music room to test servos
question for you les
are you using a custom connector to connect the stg to your drives and stuff?
in other words, if you needed to you could remove that, and not make it move your machine or would it error like mad?
yeah it would error,
just a standard breakout board and twisted pair ribbon cable
real question, when it was stopping while homming, was the machine trying to move, as In were movement commands being sent or was it just sitting, even the emc ?
it would error
the commands were sent... I see them on the terminal window
it stops because the index latching on the card is not enabled
I can hack that in
maybe Fred had you change a parameter directly on the card?
but I am in full production and can't have the machine down much
yeah Im just brainstorming
I think there was a #define somewhere
I know I keep going back to what you were told to do
maybe an ifdef
that has since been removed
I am just starting to get a taste of full production
yeah im not wanting to stop that at all,
$10/hr cost of tools dulling
router bearings that live 2 weeks
but when the time comes, maybe an asked question or something trigers your mind to remember
yes I had it all on a machine that crashed badly before the sceduled backup
do you still have that drive?
it even trashed the raid array
if you have that drive, it may be possiable to read from it, oh oh oh
had to fdisk and start over
les: Time for another site visit ?
mine or yours paul?
if it was on raid ... thats not always bad as it seems. was it software raid?
shortly after I vanished last year, masternode took a dive
I lost all my work as well
'k .. I know not much about that
im sure the problem could easly be fixed, maybe its time I invested in a controler card
I cant do that now
the problem was called windows
I have some money but I have no allocation for that
I now run a x2 80 gb raid 0 array that images another separate 80 gb
320 gb total
and I still back up
raid does not protect you from some things
backups in a seperate location all that good stuff
if software trashes files it will trash both of them
I am trying to br "paperless" so it's crucial
emcmot has all the stuff that reguards the stg card and stuff?
gezr: it's splattered all over creation basically
paul_c : and yes I think I would be interested in doing what you asked me about yesterday, I would like some time to learn more about CVS its self
a few weeks, Im going to spend an hour learning programing and an hour learning cvs
ill start a local cvs to learn with so as to be mistake free
and open it up, for others to check progress and what not
gezr: There is a nightly snapshot of cvs on SF that you can download - It contains verything needed for a local repo
paul_c : I was going to have a cvs of stuff im learning, not emc, so that when Its time to do the necessary stuff for emc, illknow what to do
I dont think its gonna be dificult or anything like that, :)
I have to go eat now, ya'll have fun
I am just on calculators figuring out whether I am losing my shirt or not :0
we grossed $432 today
subtract a zillion things
$40 tool wear
(I work for free though)
At one point employee was finishing dept and I was janitor
call it 150 bucks when you add in the bits you forgot
yeh I forget or ignore about half I guess haha
soo .. say 280 bucks clear
I tried to set this up so if I was 50% off on productivity I would still be ok
something like that I hope
to be honest, 280 is a bit thin ...
but overhead is so low
if you could get another guy in, higher skilled
take 200/day .. but free you up
certainly I made MUCH more as a corporate middle manager
also remember I am trying to do a 50/50 mix of wood manufacturing and engineering practice
engineering= $800/day and practically zero overhead
just sitting at a box and writing silly reports
But I casnnot stand doing that all the time
but you need to free yourself from woodwork to do that
if you are 5 daya a week on turkey mating devices, you'll explode
switching is very hard
I already exploded
so ... get a higher skilled guy in,
7 day weeks november and december
let him run it, you do 3 days consultancy and 3 days fishing
Ive burnt out a bit myself recently
robin...hillbillies are not highly skilled
made awesome progress in novemeber ..
but in mid dcember it slowed right up
I go out to the factory and do things .. but I just distract myself and tinker .. little of use is done
yeah up and down
just keep a good nest egg for the slow times right?
I need either : a partner to help
a good auctioneer :0
im now run right out of 'go' ...
I am looking forward to some down time so I can install another cnc mill etc
yeah like the doc diagnosing me with stress symptoms
and giving me happy pills that I cannot take
why cant you?