#emc | Logs for 2005-01-11

[10:48:59] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[12:45:27] <slomo> morning
[13:05:33] <paul_c> Afternoon..
[13:08:17] <slomo> a common people, seperated by timezones
[13:08:53] <paul_c> Set your clock to GMT, end of problem ;}
[13:09:38] <slomo> but that doesn't change the fact it;'s still morning :)
[13:11:27] <slomo> the flakey install went south, for good
[13:13:38] <anonimasu> eh
[13:13:41] <anonimasu> :)
[13:14:00] <paul_c> New emc package uploaded to the repository.
[13:14:37] <anonimasu> gezr: cant you do the valve job yourself?
[13:15:11] <anonimasu> if you dont have to change valve seats and guides its not that much work
[13:15:40] <slomo> anonimasu: lots of memory (shm), if i remmber correctly
[13:15:55] <anonimasu> slomo: for what?
[13:16:02] <slomo> finally to the point of emc not starting at all
[13:16:13] <anonimasu> slomo: changing seats are expensive..
[13:16:24] <slomo> ?
[13:16:36] <anonimasu> "lots of memory (shm), if i remmber correctly"
[13:16:37] <anonimasu> what do you mean
[13:17:20] <slomo> started emc from cl, it loads the modules, errors out with the above
[13:18:48] <slomo> oops lack of shm
[13:19:00] <anonimasu> yeah
[13:20:56] <slomo> so now i'm using bdi-tng
[13:22:56] <paul_c> You didn't want to give BDI-4.08 a try then ?
[13:24:30] <slomo> if it has an initrd and lilo, i'd love to
[13:25:05] <slomo> this fsking scsi will not accept grub as a boot loader
[13:26:50] <paul_c> grub is the default loader.... But the initrd image is generated..
[13:31:48] <slomo> well, i'll give it a shot then
[13:41:14] <slomo> before i blew away the flakey install, i did get to exercise the the motors, hooked up to the router.....
[13:41:38] <slomo> got the best performance using the sherline inch setup
[13:48:34] <les> morning or afternoon all
[13:56:57] <slomo> it's 0 dark:30 here
[14:05:53] <asdfqwega> Daylight has snuck in over here, got itself a coffee, and now sits in the corner. It gives me the finger whenever I glance over.
[14:07:21] <asdfqwega> paul_c: I've just tried to apt-get the .debs from the ntlworld.com repository into Live rc46 hd install
[14:09:11] <asdfqwega> The whole console backlog is filled with "depmod: Unresolved symbols in /lib/modules/2.6.9-adeos/.....
[14:09:15] <paul_c> did it work ?
[14:10:19] <paul_c> which package produced the errors ?
[14:11:54] <asdfqwega> I think that was the kernel image
[14:14:09] <asdfqwega> Okay...just a quick overwrite of the few files in /usr/local/emc...and it's done
[14:15:43] <asdfqwega> Is a initrd.img necessary? If so, I think I may have to add debian-Sarge repositories into the sources
[14:16:04] <asdfqwega> I just started with the sources.list that was installed
[14:16:37] <paul_c> check that module-init-tools is installed.
[14:19:52] <asdfqwega> That's right, I forgot that this is a transition from a 2.4 to a 2.6 kernel
[14:21:37] <asdfqwega> Man, you gotta love apt - it's even better than urpmi :)
[14:22:38] <slomo> asdfqwega: so did you get emc to run ?
[14:22:51] <asdfqwega> Not yet
[14:22:54] <paul_c> Short of adding a dependency for module-init-tools... But that would require rebuilding the kernel package, and may break on a future build...
[14:24:05] <asdfqwega> paul_c: did you just update the repository this morning with emc_0.0.10 ?
[14:24:13] <paul_c> yes
[14:24:55] <asdfqwega> I just updated, and it was getting emc_0.0.9 - and couldn't find it :P
[14:25:09] <paul_c> emc-0.0.1-10 has additional dependencies for tcl & tk wich were missing from earlier builds.
[14:25:38] <paul_c> No changes to the source code though.
[14:26:11] <asdfqwega> Hm, do I want to be brave or stupid, and do an apt-get upgrade?
[14:26:45] <paul_c> * paul_c suspects KDE-3.3 may break things...
[14:27:25] <asdfqwega> I had to cut out the 3 experimental repositories out of the sources.list
[14:27:28] <paul_c> synaptic certainly doesn't work as well as it did.
[14:27:31] <asdfqwega> They just weren't there
[14:30:07] <paul_c> back after lunch
[14:31:22] <asdfqwega> I'm going to follow an old rule of thumb [also know as "Rules to prevent losing thumbs"]
[14:31:34] <asdfqwega> "Go almost, but not quite, too far."
[15:26:59] <paul_c> Evening vasquez
[15:27:08] <vasquez> hey paul_c
[15:46:56] <asdfqwega> paul_c: I've managed to make an initrd.img for the 2.6.9-adeos kernel
[15:47:14] <asdfqwega> And just now I've tried running depmod
[15:47:34] <asdfqwega> And I'm not certain if everything is OK...
[15:48:06] <asdfqwega> A long string of "This modules needs that modules", and nothing seems to have changed
[15:49:02] <paul_c> check the status of the kernel-image package
[15:53:21] <asdfqwega> dpkg says OK
[15:53:49] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega goes to satisfy addiction to dihydrogen monoxide
[15:56:43] <paul_c> Hmmm.... Coffee & fag....
[16:17:48] <asdfqwega> paul_c: Why does the grub menu.lst have a bunch of hdx=scsi entries?
[16:18:06] <asdfqwega> This is something I've noticed now that I've started playing with Debian/Knoppix
[16:19:44] <asdfqwega> It's to handle and IDE drive like it was SCSI, right?
[16:19:53] <asdfqwega> Why would that be necessary?
[16:20:40] <jepler> It's probably not necessary
[16:21:08] <jepler> It is probably to make CD burners work -- you need 'hdx=scsi' for that, at least in kernel 2.4 and before
[16:21:15] <asdfqwega> Using Mandrake, I only used to have to add an ide-scsi item for CD burners - but even that's become depreciated
[16:22:23] <jepler> for bdi-live it specifies hdx=scsi for every drive since it can't autodetect the CD burner
[16:22:43] <paul_c> The Live grub menu was designed as a "catch all" without resorting to kudzu.
[16:23:31] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega working in linux = one shell open to work, n number of shells for man pages
[16:24:31] <asdfqwega> I was just debating switching it over from grub to lilo
[16:24:51] <paul_c> grub is easier to work with...
[16:25:19] <asdfqwega> For you, perhaps; I'm already quite familiar with lilo
[16:25:48] <asdfqwega> The menu.lst format is pretty straight-forward
[16:26:17] <asdfqwega> I'm just not certain if I'm ready to change it
[16:29:05] <paul_c> if you ever need to add a new kernel, only menu.lst needs updating
[16:29:24] <paul_c> no re-installing to the MBR
[16:32:45] <asdfqwega> Hm...there's a miniroot.gz in /
[16:32:52] <asdfqwega> That would be for the 2.4.25
[16:32:58] <slomo> http://cimweb.cim.fh-aalen.de/emc/bdi-4.08.iso = 12+ hours to go ?
[16:33:35] <asdfqwega> You lucky dog, only 12+ hours?
[16:34:06] <asdfqwega> I can do short bursts for apt-get on my satlink, but the .iso would take a full week
[16:34:07] <paul_c> asdfqwega: That miniroot.gz can be deleted.
[16:35:09] <paul_c> * paul_c has a 10Mbit connection to download BDI-4.08.iso over.
[16:39:08] <slomo> paul_c: is that the 81.100 addy ?
[16:39:11] <asdfqwega> @#$%^&!!!
[16:39:50] <paul_c> slomo:
[16:39:51] <asdfqwega> Grub: Error 11: Unrecognized device string
[16:44:05] <slomo> paul_c: ??
[16:44:47] <paul_c> behind a firewall on the local network.
[16:46:03] <slomo> paul_c: i'm not familiar with that procedure
[16:49:43] <slomo> paul_c: i think i've got it, but it's about the same time
[16:56:08] <slomo> asdfqwega: try this : http://www.fifi.org/doc/grub-doc/html/grub_11.html#SEC31
[18:02:36] <asdfqwega> Thanks, slomo
[18:04:07] <slomo> asdfqwega: figure it out ?
[18:04:52] <asdfqwega> Not really...I wouldn't work, and then I tried using the grub command line.
[18:05:26] <asdfqwega> I put in the right stuff, and booted it up. Then I checked grub's menu.lst, and nothing was wrong, so I booted it again.
[18:05:43] <asdfqwega> And then it worked just fine.
[18:05:46] <asdfqwega> Go figure.
[18:06:45] <asdfqwega> I can see the advantage of a command line in the bootloader
[18:09:27] <slomo> asdfqwega: so are you still getting depmod errors ?
[18:14:38] <asdfqwega> No
[18:15:26] <asdfqwega> I just tried to start EMC Generic, and it fails to load with a long string of rtai_alloc errors
[18:16:03] <asdfqwega> I think I may have to remove the old /usr/local/emc directories and re-install the .debs
[18:27:39] <asdfqwega> paul: would the emc .deb need anything in /usr/local/rcslib?
[20:07:38] <paul_c> asdfqwega: the 2.6.9 EMC deb uses libnml and no longer uses anything in loca/rcslib
[20:08:51] <robin_sz> meep?
[20:09:07] <paul_c> wot ?
[20:11:34] <robin_sz> isnt that enough?
[20:12:42] <paul_c> No.
[20:14:39] <picnet> Evening
[20:14:49] <robin_sz> picnet!
[20:14:58] <picnet> Hi robin
[20:15:05] <picnet> Happy new year & all that jazz.
[20:15:11] <picnet> * picnet is 11 days late.
[20:15:29] <robin_sz> white rabbits
[20:15:44] <picnet> Valkonen Pupu.
[20:19:09] <picnet> storms hit uk yet?
[20:21:55] <paul_c> yup - Quite breezy
[20:22:49] <picnet> been iffy here also.
[20:23:58] <robin_sz> seen les?
[20:24:04] <picnet> nope
[20:24:37] <robin_sz> must find out how heavy the gantry on his router/mill is ...
[20:24:40] <robin_sz> just for info
[20:25:46] <robin_sz> been working on a design for a hi-def plasma / router
[20:26:02] <picnet> as in high resolution?
[20:26:10] <robin_sz> sorta
[20:26:18] <anonimasu> hm, fine-beam plasma..
[20:26:30] <anonimasu> is what they call it in sweden
[20:26:30] <anonimasu> :9
[20:26:42] <robin_sz> the 'hi definition' plasma uses mixed gases instead of air, gets a narrowerm sharper cut
[20:26:51] <robin_sz> still a way off laser .
[20:26:52] <picnet> i see
[20:26:53] <anonimasu> hm, they have other nozzles also..
[20:26:59] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[20:27:11] <picnet> Skodaginen.
[20:27:12] <anonimasu> but well, laser dosent compare to plasma in input/output power
[20:27:30] <robin_sz> ? ... bout the same no?
[20:27:56] <robin_sz> most high def plasam are around 200A @ 120V
[20:28:14] <anonimasu> I have no idea
[20:28:17] <picnet> My projects halted right no, no space to build the machine. Im toying with the idea of cnc'ing the sieg X2 instead.
[20:28:24] <picnet> no=now.
[20:28:34] <anonimasu> that sounds like a small unit
[20:28:35] <anonimasu> :9
[20:28:38] <robin_sz> I guess most lasers are similar sort of input powers
[20:28:59] <robin_sz> picnet: dou your wife and kids sleep inside the house?
[20:29:05] <picnet> yes
[20:29:19] <robin_sz> picnet: do you have tables and chairs in your living room?
[20:29:26] <picnet> no
[20:29:30] <picnet> kitchen yes
[20:29:38] <robin_sz> sofas?
[20:29:41] <picnet> yes
[20:29:48] <anonimasu> but what does a laser that'll cut 2" cost ;)
[20:29:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is curious
[20:29:55] <robin_sz> well, lets cut out this 'no room' nonsense then :)
[20:30:07] <robin_sz> oh loads and loads
[20:30:15] <anonimasu> :)
[20:30:31] <robin_sz> infact .. I think youd need ... at least ... 6kw
[20:30:40] <anonimasu> argh
[20:30:42] <anonimasu> :]
[20:31:12] <robin_sz> my plasma cuts galvanised sheet cleaner than my laser
[20:32:35] <paul_c> * paul_c wonders who is....
[20:34:19] <anonimasu> :)
[20:38:05] <paul_c> lemme guess.... anonimasu ?
[20:40:25] <robin_sz> alaska
[20:40:47] <robin_sz> anonimasu is in .se
[20:41:39] <paul_c> must be slomo hammering my bandwidth then..
[20:41:58] <anonimasu> the name is japanese
[20:43:31] <jepler> not a very original word
[20:44:42] <anonimasu> I've been an0n for as long as I can remember..
[20:44:48] <anonimasu> and a guy at a lan was named the same..
[20:44:54] <anonimasu> although without zero..
[20:44:59] <anonimasu> so I changed nick
[20:45:11] <picnet> Was he the imposter?
[20:45:47] <anonimasu> yep
[20:45:56] <anonimasu> but it was time to change anyway
[20:46:06] <picnet> insert him into the matter transporter and press "go"
[20:46:14] <anonimasu> I thought about it..
[20:46:42] <anonimasu> mills are great! ^_^
[20:47:00] <anonimasu> just kidding
[20:47:02] <anonimasu> I dont care that much
[20:48:13] <picnet> send random invitations to the klepomanic society to go visit his house?
[20:48:46] <anonimasu> nah
[20:48:55] <anonimasu> :)
[20:49:03] <anonimasu> I were thinking about changing nick
[20:49:14] <anonimasu> anyway
[20:49:21] <anonimasu> it just was the final little push
[20:49:33] <picnet> anonimatic ?
[21:02:41] <anonimasu> nope
[21:03:07] <paul_c> * paul_c edits index.html
[21:03:42] <gezr> howdy
[21:04:23] <robin_sz> yep, that ip is slomo
[21:05:59] <picnet> http://members.cox.net/kdntool/_sgg/m3m2s2_1.htm
[21:06:05] <picnet> Humm x2 mod kit.
[21:14:49] <picnet> night.
[21:19:12] <gezr> hmm
[21:19:30] <gezr> after work rest is almost over, cleaning up time
[21:19:34] <gezr> starts shortly
[21:20:17] <gezr> anything interesting happen today?
[21:20:18] <paul_c> * paul_c needs to get on a retro-fit a lathe, but.....
[21:20:48] <paul_c> udated emc package available from the repository.
[21:20:58] <gezr> hey, any of you seen the new cd printers?
[21:21:30] <gezr> I bet one of those could print the boxes to make an effective encoder
[21:21:54] <gezr> it may not have supreme resolution but It could be done
[21:32:03] <jepler> what is special about these printers?
[21:32:39] <gezr> they print directly to a disk, not a label maker
[21:37:07] <robin_sz> coo
[21:37:29] <robin_sz> so, if you are ripping stuff in mass production, they speed up the process :)
[21:43:36] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:43:37] <anonimasu> :]
[22:07:45] <gezr> oh cool I have 11 nixie tubes :)
[22:12:18] <gezr> oh my gosh, I own too much junk
[22:14:21] <cradek> but nixies aren't junk
[22:14:37] <cradek> * cradek also has a stash of nixies
[22:14:45] <robin_sz> I ahve a friend making a nixie stopwatch
[22:15:00] <robin_sz> well, more a stop-big-wooden-box
[22:15:17] <cradek> I've made several clocks, one that even sets automatically from WWVB and shows time and date
[22:15:34] <robin_sz> uh huh ...
[22:15:40] <jepler> it's pretty cool
[22:15:42] <cradek> made it about 3 years ago
[22:15:47] <robin_sz> you have *wwway* too much free time
[22:15:55] <cradek> it's been running ever since
[22:16:10] <cradek> robin_sz: huh? what's free time?
[22:16:14] <gezr> I have at least 50lbs of resistors and capicators
[22:16:21] <robin_sz> beats me
[22:16:54] <robin_sz> we got rid of a lot of leaded componente recently,
[22:17:01] <robin_sz> no use for much these dyas
[22:17:47] <robin_sz> did a 'deal' with a guy, we got some transformer wire, he got 'a couple of boxes of components'
[22:18:04] <robin_sz> except .. we filled a double-axle transit van to the roof :)
[22:18:14] <cradek> you wind transformers?
[22:18:30] <robin_sz> yeah
[22:18:33] <robin_sz> or did
[22:18:43] <robin_sz> still have the winding machines
[22:18:50] <cradek> cool
[22:18:53] <robin_sz> for toroids
[22:19:03] <cradek> I've always wondered how those are wound
[22:19:16] <robin_sz> well, you take a donut ...
[22:19:33] <robin_sz> and you wrap it in wire :)
[22:19:39] <cradek> bah
[22:19:54] <robin_sz> got machines for teeny little cores right up to 3KVA or more
[22:20:00] <cradek> you must pass a spool of wire throught the donut?
[22:20:10] <robin_sz> not quite
[22:20:16] <robin_sz> you really wanna know
[22:20:18] <robin_sz> ??
[22:20:35] <cradek> is it a big secret?
[22:20:39] <robin_sz> nope
[22:20:49] <gezr> yeah I want to hear this
[22:21:08] <robin_sz> ok, so donut ... sits on machine gripped by 3 rubber rollers .. horizontal plane OK ...
[22:21:45] <robin_sz> there is a ring, in the vertical plane, it splits, like two C shapes when its open
[22:21:54] <robin_sz> when you close it it passes through the donut ..
[22:22:09] <robin_sz> like 2 rings joined OK?
[22:22:15] <cradek> ok so far
[22:22:48] <robin_sz> the ring is a spool in effect, it spins round on its axis driven by some rollers that it its in
[22:22:59] <robin_sz> right now .. its an empty spool
[22:23:20] <robin_sz> so .. first you fill it with the exact amount of wire you need for the first winding
[22:23:45] <robin_sz> ring spins, wire is fed on ..
[22:24:20] <robin_sz> when the right amount is on ... you snip the wire, tape the inner end onto the core and the ring starts spinning again
[22:24:47] <robin_sz> this warps the wire from the inner of the ring/spool thing onto the core
[22:25:05] <robin_sz> the core rotates at just the right rate to lay it all down nicely
[22:25:07] <gezr> I see
[22:25:20] <gezr> sorta like a horizontal and a vertical circle
[22:25:29] <gezr> each rotating around each other right?
[22:25:33] <les> what is the split for?
[22:25:46] <robin_sz> IFF you get it right, when the wire runs out it will be JUST where you started, so your two end are in the same place
[22:25:54] <robin_sz> les: so you can get the core in in the first place
[22:26:03] <robin_sz> gezr yep
[22:26:04] <gezr> it doesnt fit through the center of the core
[22:26:12] <robin_sz> no
[22:26:15] <gezr> I was thinking that at first, its goes around the core
[22:26:19] <gezr> like a hand holding a ring
[22:26:21] <cradek> I don't understand how you wind it off the center of the vertical ring
[22:26:40] <robin_sz> no rollers and stuff, its a complex ring
[22:26:57] <gezr> robin_sz : its quickly feed on to the spool, then they rotated together as it feeds the wire on?
[22:27:13] <robin_sz> gezr: make an OK sign with each hand
[22:27:24] <gezr> robin_sz : yeah I understand it :)
[22:27:24] <robin_sz> gezr: link the two circles
[22:27:57] <gezr> its perfection :)
[22:28:24] <robin_sz> http://www.ingridwest.co.uk/wh/toroid/wh300pic.htm
[22:28:27] <robin_sz> like that
[22:29:10] <gezr> yeah :)
[22:29:13] <gezr> thats a bigen
[22:29:20] <robin_sz> same as mine
[22:29:25] <robin_sz> except mine are german
[22:29:45] <robin_sz> hence motors burn out, foot pedals catch fire etc
[22:30:38] <gezr> hahaha
[22:30:59] <gezr> the wires just sorta ride on each other for primary and secondary?
[22:32:05] <cradek> they could, but I think normally you put them on different sides of the torus
[22:32:22] <gezr> im going to run to the store, I have stuff to clean, if I dont get back at the cleaning, ill spend the rest of the night learning about transformers
[22:32:41] <gezr> more then meet the eye
[22:33:11] <gezr> autobots ......damn decepticons
[22:36:11] <robin_sz> cradek: no, that would be bad
[22:36:39] <robin_sz> cradek: you have to distribute the flux evenly in the toroid or Bad Things (tm) happen
[22:36:47] <cradek> ah
[22:36:48] <robin_sz> So .. first theresa mylar tape
[22:36:52] <robin_sz> then the primary
[22:37:00] <robin_sz> then a mylar tape
[22:37:04] <robin_sz> then the secondary
[22:37:43] <robin_sz> you can do it all on the same machine, but we used to have a sperate machine set up just for tape
[22:41:50] <slomo> paul_c: hammering ? abuse ? explain please
[22:43:15] <paul_c> * paul_c only has 128K to the outside world...
[22:44:27] <paul_c> It will take you 12 hours or more to download bdi-4.08 from here.
[22:44:40] <slomo> no kidding ?
[22:44:58] <paul_c> nope
[22:45:07] <slomo> wget showing 6+ to go
[22:47:19] <slomo> paul_c: if i'm abusing or interfering let me know, i'll dico
[22:47:25] <slomo> disco
[22:48:53] <paul_c> You're OK at the mo - Running of a local mirror for my apt stuff.
[22:49:49] <slomo> paul_c: ok, thanks, if it a problem, let know, i'll quit, qnd resume laater
[22:52:59] <paul_c> I'll be going to bed in an hour or so... No need to disconnect.
[22:54:23] <robin_sz> my alaska looks cold
[22:54:25] <robin_sz>
[22:57:58] <slomo> robin_sz: good pix, yes, about the view i've got
[22:58:09] <robin_sz> nice :)
[22:58:15] <les> hello again all
[22:58:24] <robin_sz> hey les
[22:58:28] <robin_sz> roughly ...
[22:58:36] <robin_sz> how heavy is your gantry?
[22:58:47] <les> 500 kg
[22:58:56] <robin_sz> and how many watt servos?
[22:59:31] <les> 1600
[22:59:41] <robin_sz> 2hp .. thats big
[22:59:51] <les> enough for 1 g
[23:00:09] <robin_sz> ok, and that gives you 1g and what max speed?
[23:00:26] <les> 600 ipm
[23:00:31] <les> it's slow
[23:00:32] <robin_sz> k
[23:00:58] <robin_sz> yeah .. its heavy
[23:01:01] <les> I really need to go to a coarser pitch if I keep doing wood
[23:01:31] <robin_sz> or use a rack and pinion machine
[23:01:40] <les> I never run that fast because I am spindle hp lmited
[23:01:49] <robin_sz> still?
[23:02:11] <les> well 2.5 tpi would get me to 1200
[23:02:28] <les> but I need 12 hp at the spindle to cut at that speed
[23:02:59] <robin_sz> I suspect half the effort goes into spinning up the ballscrews
[23:03:20] <les> the sem motors are actually capable of 3.6 kW
[23:03:28] <robin_sz> coo
[23:03:49] <robin_sz> that would need a BIG drive
[23:03:50] <les> yes on x half the inertia is the twin screws and jackshaft...almost exactly
[23:03:58] <robin_sz> wow
[23:04:54] <robin_sz> theres another advantage of rack and pinion :)
[23:05:05] <les> but it hoots along...
[23:05:11] <les> let's see
[23:05:36] <les> 1g is 384 ips
[23:06:05] <robin_sz> ips^2
[23:06:27] <les> 19.2 inches from a standing still start in 0.1 second
[23:06:36] <les> right^2
[23:06:56] <les> just like falling
[23:07:28] <les> today I further attacked the emc jerk gouge
[23:07:43] <les> it is costing me several hundred a week
[23:07:43] <robin_sz> by gcoding around it?
[23:07:57] <les> here is what I did:
[23:08:23] <les> I thought of the impulse responce of a fir notch digital filter...
[23:08:45] <robin_sz> yes ...
[23:08:53] <les> so I started a short carefully timed tangent lead in
[23:09:03] <les> that starts the vibration
[23:09:05] <les> but
[23:09:53] <les> I timed it so the jerk when circular motion starts hits at just the right time to "antivibrate" away most of the gouge
[23:09:56] <les> getit?
[23:10:22] <gezr> interesting
[23:10:29] <robin_sz> * robin_sz ponders
[23:10:32] <les> desperate is the word
[23:10:59] <gezr> any of you have an hp180 scope around and need another timer module?
[23:11:07] <les> hit a punching bag once and it bobs back and forth
[23:11:28] <les> hit it again with just the right timing and impulde and it stops...
[23:11:39] <les> impulse
[23:12:10] <robin_sz> except ..in emc, any attempt to do that is probably hammpered by the correction creating a jerk of itsown
[23:12:13] <les> now get it?
[23:12:40] <robin_sz> but .. if you *do* tune it out, then its worht trying
[23:12:44] <les> That's the whole idea...the corecction jerk mostly cancels the original
[23:13:02] <les> I am placing a zero NEAR the pole
[23:13:15] <les> but different distance to the real axis
[23:13:18] <robin_sz> occasionally near :)
[23:13:42] <les> no it times exactly the same every time
[23:13:49] <gezr> whoot, wife is home :)
[23:13:54] <les> causal
[23:14:29] <robin_sz> but it doesnt stop the burning?
[23:14:29] <les> so I can make a repeatable "anti gouge"
[23:14:58] <les> it did help...and the gouge is almost gone
[23:15:05] <robin_sz> nice
[23:15:29] <les> as I said...desperate
[23:15:35] <robin_sz> if only segmot did its thing :(
[23:15:47] <les> right
[23:16:02] <robin_sz> you need true jerk limiting, d2v/dt2
[23:16:06] <les> I was hoping it would blend a tangent line and circle
[23:16:18] <les> yeah
[23:16:22] <les> quintic
[23:16:38] <robin_sz> S curve accel
[23:16:46] <robin_sz> or any other name
[23:17:01] <gezr> hmm
[23:17:13] <gezr> what if you added a pulse to the no it would never work right
[23:17:14] <les> segmentque is cubic but in a circle there would be no jerks in blended arcs
[23:17:29] <les> A pulse?
[23:17:43] <gezr> to keep the drives going, say a constant pulse
[23:17:49] <gezr> but a very slow one,
[23:17:49] <robin_sz> no
[23:17:57] <gezr> yeah, thats why I stopped
[23:17:59] <robin_sz> dont even think about it
[23:18:05] <robin_sz> :)
[23:18:08] <gezr> yeah
[23:18:57] <robin_sz> we need to be able to do arc-to-line and line-to-arc *at least* for tangents
[23:19:08] <les> What I am doing is adding the inverse impulse response
[23:19:24] <les> but all this is a work around of course
[23:19:38] <les> I know segmentqueue does that
[23:19:40] <gezr> until you can home with segmetqueue right?
[23:19:49] <les> right gezr
[23:19:55] <gezr> and you cant really test while in production
[23:20:03] <robin_sz> a more general solution feeding the segemnts through a d2v/dt2 filter would be better .. its little more than a moving average routine really
[23:20:07] <gezr> what you need is an extra box to have handy
[23:20:18] <les> not too much
[23:20:33] <les> I have an extra box...but only one stg card
[23:20:43] <robin_sz> so .. its only the homing thats screwed on segmot?
[23:20:49] <gezr> les I was gonna say if I had a stg card it would be there for you to work with now
[23:21:04] <gezr> I dont own anything like that
[23:21:06] <les> thanks
[23:21:32] <les> Chris MAY have segmentqueue fixed and fully functional
[23:21:50] <les> but the current tree is BROKEN
[23:21:57] <robin_sz> but you have install issues right?
[23:22:00] <robin_sz> 'k
[23:22:13] <gezr> les : hold up, do you have a drive, servo, thats seperate from your machine?
[23:22:27] <gezr> machine being the gantry
[23:22:49] <gezr> it doesnt matter, I guess, same scenareo
[23:23:22] <les> gezr: no , but I sometimes use one of the 1300W audio amps in the music room to test servos
[23:23:27] <gezr> question for you les
[23:23:35] <les> shoot
[23:23:50] <gezr> are you using a custom connector to connect the stg to your drives and stuff?
[23:24:11] <gezr> in other words, if you needed to you could remove that, and not make it move your machine or would it error like mad?
[23:24:14] <gezr> yeah it would error,
[23:24:30] <les> just a standard breakout board and twisted pair ribbon cable
[23:24:50] <gezr> real question, when it was stopping while homming, was the machine trying to move, as In were movement commands being sent or was it just sitting, even the emc ?
[23:24:51] <les> it would error
[23:25:33] <les> the commands were sent... I see them on the terminal window
[23:25:54] <les> it stops because the index latching on the card is not enabled
[23:26:05] <les> I can hack that in
[23:26:23] <gezr> maybe Fred had you change a parameter directly on the card?
[23:26:31] <les> but I am in full production and can't have the machine down much
[23:26:49] <gezr> yeah Im just brainstorming
[23:27:01] <les> I think there was a #define somewhere
[23:27:11] <gezr> I know I keep going back to what you were told to do
[23:27:22] <gezr> maybe an ifdef
[23:27:27] <gezr> that has since been removed
[23:27:43] <les> I am just starting to get a taste of full production
[23:27:51] <les> things like
[23:28:06] <gezr> yeah im not wanting to stop that at all,
[23:28:09] <les> $10/hr cost of tools dulling
[23:28:25] <les> router bearings that live 2 weeks
[23:28:34] <gezr> but when the time comes, maybe an asked question or something trigers your mind to remember
[23:29:16] <les> yes I had it all on a machine that crashed badly before the sceduled backup
[23:29:30] <gezr> do you still have that drive?
[23:29:39] <les> it even trashed the raid array
[23:29:49] <gezr> if you have that drive, it may be possiable to read from it, oh oh oh
[23:29:49] <robin_sz> coo
[23:29:56] <les> had to fdisk and start over
[23:30:00] <paul_c> les: Time for another site visit ?
[23:30:23] <les> mine or yours paul?
[23:30:23] <robin_sz> if it was on raid ... thats not always bad as it seems. was it software raid?
[23:30:30] <gezr> shortly after I vanished last year, masternode took a dive
[23:30:40] <les> hardware raid
[23:30:43] <gezr> I lost all my work as well
[23:30:54] <robin_sz> 'k .. I know not much about that
[23:31:24] <gezr> im sure the problem could easly be fixed, maybe its time I invested in a controler card
[23:31:32] <gezr> I cant do that now
[23:31:43] <les> the problem was called windows
[23:31:49] <gezr> I have some money but I have no allocation for that
[23:32:42] <les> I now run a x2 80 gb raid 0 array that images another separate 80 gb
[23:32:47] <les> 320 gb total
[23:33:05] <gezr> sweet
[23:33:18] <les> and I still back up
[23:33:32] <les> raid does not protect you from some things
[23:33:37] <gezr> right
[23:33:49] <gezr> backups in a seperate location all that good stuff
[23:33:54] <les> if software trashes files it will trash both of them
[23:34:03] <les> yup
[23:34:44] <les> I am trying to br "paperless" so it's crucial
[23:34:52] <gezr> emcmot has all the stuff that reguards the stg card and stuff?
[23:35:46] <les> gezr: it's splattered all over creation basically
[23:36:26] <gezr> paul_c : and yes I think I would be interested in doing what you asked me about yesterday, I would like some time to learn more about CVS its self
[23:37:02] <gezr> a few weeks, Im going to spend an hour learning programing and an hour learning cvs
[23:37:41] <gezr> ill start a local cvs to learn with so as to be mistake free
[23:38:05] <gezr> and open it up, for others to check progress and what not
[23:41:24] <paul_c> gezr: There is a nightly snapshot of cvs on SF that you can download - It contains verything needed for a local repo
[23:42:26] <gezr> paul_c : I was going to have a cvs of stuff im learning, not emc, so that when Its time to do the necessary stuff for emc, illknow what to do
[23:43:03] <gezr> I dont think its gonna be dificult or anything like that, :)
[23:43:15] <gezr> I have to go eat now, ya'll have fun
[23:43:52] <les> later gezr
[23:46:35] <les> I am just on calculators figuring out whether I am losing my shirt or not :0
[23:46:57] <les> we grossed $432 today
[23:47:04] <robin_sz> hmmm
[23:47:15] <les> subtract a zillion things
[23:47:48] <les> $40 labor
[23:48:00] <les> $40 tool wear
[23:48:04] <les> $10 power
[23:48:29] <les> (I work for free though)
[23:48:59] <les> At one point employee was finishing dept and I was janitor
[23:49:03] <les> haha
[23:49:32] <robin_sz> call it 150 bucks when you add in the bits you forgot
[23:49:57] <les> yeh I forget or ignore about half I guess haha
[23:50:18] <robin_sz> soo .. say 280 bucks clear
[23:50:33] <les> I tried to set this up so if I was 50% off on productivity I would still be ok
[23:50:47] <les> something like that I hope
[23:51:17] <robin_sz> to be honest, 280 is a bit thin ...
[23:51:27] <les> yeah
[23:51:29] <les> it is
[23:51:40] <les> but overhead is so low
[23:52:04] <robin_sz> if you could get another guy in, higher skilled
[23:52:15] <robin_sz> take 200/day .. but free you up
[23:52:17] <les> certainly I made MUCH more as a corporate middle manager
[23:52:38] <les> but
[23:53:16] <les> also remember I am trying to do a 50/50 mix of wood manufacturing and engineering practice
[23:53:54] <les> engineering= $800/day and practically zero overhead
[23:54:11] <les> just sitting at a box and writing silly reports
[23:54:39] <les> But I casnnot stand doing that all the time
[23:54:45] <les> cannot
[23:54:49] <robin_sz> but you need to free yourself from woodwork to do that
[23:55:04] <les> yup
[23:55:10] <robin_sz> if you are 5 daya a week on turkey mating devices, you'll explode
[23:55:12] <les> switching is very hard
[23:55:23] <les> I already exploded
[23:55:37] <robin_sz> so ... get a higher skilled guy in,
[23:55:42] <les> 7 day weeks november and december
[23:55:59] <robin_sz> let him run it, you do 3 days consultancy and 3 days fishing
[23:56:05] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:56:13] <robin_sz> Ive burnt out a bit myself recently
[23:56:21] <les> robin...hillbillies are not highly skilled
[23:56:25] <les> haha
[23:56:27] <robin_sz> made awesome progress in novemeber ..
[23:56:37] <robin_sz> but in mid dcember it slowed right up
[23:57:03] <robin_sz> I go out to the factory and do things .. but I just distract myself and tinker .. little of use is done
[23:57:12] <les> yeah up and down
[23:57:30] <les> just keep a good nest egg for the slow times right?
[23:57:36] <robin_sz> I need either : a partner to help
[23:57:38] <robin_sz> or ..
[23:57:50] <robin_sz> a good auctioneer :0
[23:58:24] <robin_sz> im now run right out of 'go' ...
[23:58:24] <les> I am looking forward to some down time so I can install another cnc mill etc
[23:59:13] <les> yeah like the doc diagnosing me with stress symptoms
[23:59:27] <les> and giving me happy pills that I cannot take
[23:59:38] <anonimasu> why cant you?