yay, emc's parser is starting to work with axis. http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/01102468345
Ready to bump the version number up and release a new one for BDI-4 ?
paul_c: unfortunately not. Coordinate offsets aren't working yet, for instance.
paul_c: I'm about to be on vacation for a week, and then there's the holidays, so realistically a '1.0' release won't be out until mid-january at the earliest, with another beta sometime between christmas and new years' day.
paul_c: You about?
Is it possible for you to ship a real disk to sherline and get it there tomorrow?
It would be quicker for them to download it from here
Right. Joe was just asking?
We wouldn't want to hammer your connection with two downloads at the same time.
lemme see if I can get some b/w elsewhere...
this might take a few mins...
No problem. This is the top of the list.
Matt won't get into Sherline for a couple hours yet.
You work with peter K in australia right?
Just a bit. We set him up as a BDI copier.
I don't remember much about his setup.
he was just asking how you were
He was just GIVEN a big Gantry router with fried controls
Tell him I'm well, the wife is much better and the toboggan run is getting iced down right now.
might reach 70 here this afternoon...unusually warm
usually in the 20's early in the morning
I set of a pair of photoeyes a few years ago. One of my kids could make a bit more that 60 MPH.
20 makes for some nice crisp air. Does that temp dry things there?
We have the southernmost ski slope here (east of the miss)
Nice. Do they have to make snow?
sometimes gets below zero...but usually not
yes must make snow as we get only 10 in or so
We get about 40 days a year below
I spent many cold winters in chicago
lots of time up your way at miller west of green bay
That's a mizerable cold place. Lots of humidity and wind.
Now you're getting close.
You working with Peter on a project?
Naw he was just asking about things for his new toy (the gantry router)
he needs some servo amps
those Galil ones on ebay are the best deal around...rebadged Copleys
20 amps 80v peak
I had better pick up a bunch before they are gone
need spares...and need some for the Bridgeport I am hubting for
plenty around...just not close
have to hit some auctions
Darn... Can only get 10-50Megs on a fast connection.
paul_c: That would get it here in six hours. I could make a copy and get it to Smithy next day.
or is my math pre-coffee?
But we need 650Meg before anyone could download it..
From you to them?
well need to work on turkey call g-code...trying to use all 9 fixture offsets...then variables for the next row and so on
long program...lots of text editor stuff
Thanks for the note on Peter. Have a good day.
rayh: Can upload the file to Sherline this evening on a 2Meg line
Okay. That would get it to them. Can we also get it to me on the 12 hour download?
Or should I get my guy to take it from Sherline?
It could be midnight (GMT) by the time they get it...
Okay. That means morning for them. That should be fine at their end.
If I started a normal download here. I'd have it by morning. If I could get a t1 to sherline, we'd both have it.
Let me try that idea on my guy if I can raise him.
Would need an ftp account & passwd to upload it
Or to my guy.
* rayh is on the phone.
well.. If I could upload to both
(probably pushing it though...)
I can't raise him yet.
* paul_c is on the phone now....
NTL suck..... �1000 installation fee and �8000 p.a. for a 2Meg line.
paul_c: I think you left just before I said this about AXIS release plans: paul_c: I'm about to be on vacation for a week, and then there's the holidays, so realistically a '1.0' release won't be out until mid-january at the earliest, with another beta sometime between christmas and new years' day.
jepler: I'm hoping I can get a look at it before the weekend.
as soon as I can get the disk from paul.
jepler: Could take a cvs snapshot and add it to the CD after bumping the minor release number
say, Ver-1.0b2 ?
paul_c: what date are we talking about? I only have one more night to work on this before I leave town...
If I build another CD for upload tonight, about three hours.
We wouldn't need axis for Sherline on this round.
I don't think I'll make it
If the bug fix is in anon cvs, I could do it from here.
which bug fix? Using the real emc interpreter for g-code is a bunch of code changes
the bug fix for r values
the R-specified arc bug isn't going to be fixed except by switching interpreters
it's a bug in my homebrew parser, which I'm not going to fix, I'm ripping it out instead
It's not a major prob - An update would only be 280K...
paul_c: Got the guy. Would you want a fast link to him? He can transfer to SD.
If he grabbed a normal download of 4.1 today he could transfer in the AM to SD.
We might have to work with Matt there to get a burned cd.
Think I'm going to run out of time to get a CD to the guys this side with the fast link...
Probably best if your lad downloaded from me and then passed it on to SD
and 4.01.iso is it?
He can start anytime and run overnight there.
bdi-4.01.iso - It is the only iso listed.
No changes you want to make before the dl.
was going to do another build with a modified anaconda...
But the packages and install would remain the same.
I can ask him to wait until later today if you want to make a new iso.
would need a couple of hours..
No problem here.
03Zathras 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/comps.xml: File changed. New revision:1.17
build, burn, & test cycle coming up.
any chance future BDIs could be offered on bittorrent? It might let more people get it more quickly.
it would let all of us with great bandwidth help (leave our clients up)
I have 2Mbit at home
would have to look at bittorrent....
cradek: substantially less than 2Mbit outgoing, isn't it?
I can offer 20K byte/second outgoing via bittorrent
How does it cope with obsoleted releases ?
paul_c: You run a bittorrent server or client for a particular file. So when a new version comes out, everyone would have to re-start their programs
IMO it would make sense for new releases before they're hosted at sherline, but once they're on a fast connection it's not needed so much
and the old versions still remain in circulation ?
but if chris, ray, sherline, and I could all get the new iso at the same time without you using additional bw, that would be great
the old versions would be hosted at sherline by then, for regular ftp/http, not bittorrent
mornin ray, paul
dave-e: You been up all night ?
just leaving the connection up
I have jury duty today..so won't get much done
I might be lucky and not get picked
Or you might get some meaty case
been there, done that
even then juries are not predictable
I'm told that if you say "I'm planning on hanging the bastard" they won't choose you.
with criminal cases: there are only three kinds....dumb defendent, innocent, weak prosecution case
all the others get plea bargined.
"a little hanging is a good thing"
or the option in this state is lethal injection
so mike is not a sherline...where did he go
he was still doing something related to cnc
some other company
I don't remember the details and have only seen him once since he left there
chris...you in socal?
well I'm off to do my duty.
I have a talker hooked up to this haha
socal would be a bit tempting at the moment, it's cold here
several people have said it would be nice to have a tracker for AXIS. I wonder if I should put one up on unpythonic.net, or whether it would be appropriate to use the emc project's tracker on sourceforge
Would you eventually move axis to SF ?
paul_c: Do you know if tk 8.3 has a clipboard command?
couldn't tell you how to use it though...
paul_c: if that's what people want.
paul_c: (that's the same thing I've always said)
I'd like to see it there.
It would off-load the responsibilty of maintaining a bdi-4 version...
What would you think of an emc/python directory with axis under that.
If it works with all EMC variants, perhaps we should have a new module for projects such as axis
rayh: Start downloading
He's on lunch back in a bit.
That would be fine. We might eventually move all the gui stuff there, 'eh?
I just posted some period,guess tickle code to emc-users.
If you could try it on a pc running emc and compare the guess to your setting...
I'd appreciate it.
Darn. Got lost.
* an0n yawns
* paul_c finds a bug in Ray's tickle code
The AMD 1800XP says 14uSec, the Duron 633, 37.7uSec
Thanks for the confirmation, Paul.
The latter will run at 16uSec
Really. Let me suggest a revision to the number line.
try [expr 0.03 / [rc[t $speed -250] ]
oosp try [expr 0.03 / [expr $speed -250] ]
10uSec for the XP, and ~30uSec for the Duron
10uSec is too fast...
maybe you want to use a formula like 10e-6 + 0.025 / (speed - 250), to give an absolute minimum somewhere around 10uS
tweak the constants to taste
also I note the formula won't give credible results for a machine where speed < 250, but I think people are running emc on slower
Bobomips runs about twice frequency.
I can barely run on a 200 here.
My input scale is about 2k and max vel is 25.
I could have sworn somebody (Imperator_?) mentioned trying AXIS on a Pentium 133, but maybe that's an uncommonly low-end configuration
it was Imperator I think
he was running redhat 7.2
EMC will run there, it is just that it won't produce many steps per second before following error.
I suppose that it would be good to separate period bfrom other vars but I'm not certain it can be done.
It seems like someone said that emc1 is written for servo machines, and steppers are an afterthought. Is that any different in EMC2?
EMC2 has started with steppers and servos might get added at some point.
Info world says that in a july survey of business 85% said they were using, testing, or considering OS for their business.
jepler_ is now known as jepler
argh, my dsl
well, my opinion:
for commercial stuff stepper has LONG been obsolete.
did anyone tell sherline?
Issue is whether emc2 will be a hobby only or a hobby+commercial system
sherline is a commercial firm that makes hobby machines...which is fine
I am not interested in hobby grade systems.
I want an industrial strength controller.
well why not have modern performance....go for it! Why be retro?
I know of course cost and complexity is an issue for the hobby market
I think servos can be economical...and very easy to set up
I'd sure like to have servos on my hobby grade machine - how much for servos and whatever drivers they need?
how big a machine?
little tabletop maxnc
ok lets see here...
X travel is about 10"
8" X Travel · 5" Y Travel · 6" Z Travel · 4" wide dovetails · 11.9" long x 4" wide table
here's my take... for a machine like that you don't need an expensive low inertia servo motor
so a small pmdc motor would be fine
$25 or something surplus?
encoders, amps, PC interface?
encoders are about $50 new....
(I really don't know anything about it)
amps can be small...$25 or so if you build them
but then 1600w galils are less than $75 each NOS on ebay
I have some catalogs here...let me check some things
* an0n likes galil hardware
although it's expensive
I am seeing 100+ in oz motors with encoders for around $100
but separate $25 motor and $50 us digital encoder is a bit cheaper
cradek: i have s P166
but they are expensive..
even less if one gets lucky with the encoders bought as surplus
my current steppers are 145 in oz
The only big ticket item (for emc) seems to be the interface card
best is the Vital card
the servos I have are like 629$
and that's small ones..
but, bought new from galil..
least expensive is a surplus galil card...but of course no good for emc
so if you get lucky on ebay....
well, if I could get shipping here I'd have bought a cnc mill off ebay
but it's kind of hard to ship to sweden
I am waiting for my last driver to arrive from geckodrive
enough to run a mill drill or something will be about $US900 for motors, encoders, amps, and io card
my servo driver was broken
the input part of it..
obviously the io card is the big part of it
that's too bad, the rest sounds affordable enough to play with
now...how much would a complete stepper system be for a mill drill?
not too much
well this entire machine starts at $1300
mine's somewhat upgraded, but still
entire machine, meaning steppers and drivers and power supply, ready to plug into the parallel port
that's more expensive..
how much might just a manual machine with similar capabilities be?
I have some galil 12-80 amps they are cheap at ebay, and you need servos with a tacho. The good thing is that nobody wants to have servos with tachos at ebay, so they are very cheap
$ over here..
but that's a cheap drill/mill
imperator: galil 1280 are rebadged Copley 412s I think...they can be set up in torque mode without tachs and will run great
jep i have them in velosity mode
In the old days velocity mode was used in the amps to offload having the slow computers calculate the D term
and i have two servos with tacho and encoder, so i can easyly test the emc without a machine
velocity mode is normal at machine tools i think
current mode is now...because the computers are so much faster
D in PID closes the velocity loop
you neen the tacho is never used
A long time ago D was done in the amp (velocity mode) because it caused a delay in the digital part
that's why tacho's are analog..
at least 0.5 servo update interval
otherwise you'd just have a pulse output like today..
that is not a problem any more
so PIDFF current mode can equal or even outperform velocity mode thanks to fast processing
no need for a tach
what are used today are probably 10 times more accurate..
the encoder derivative is an awfully good tach already
if not more..
So use emc with a current mode amp, encoder, no tach, and PIDFF
it will have higher bandwidth...no heavy lags from PI velocity loops in the amp
to do that you need a counter card dont you?
* an0n is just running a dumb system with geckos
well, it works great..
but it dosent feel as solid :]
the only thing is following error estop
btw, is the lathe support in emc ready yet?
threading.. and things
if one amp faults on the 256 count ferror limit the others will keep going...=bad crash
but you have a error output on the geckos..
but that could be easily fixed with a little external logic
I think :)
that's a product idea for you....
my setup's temporary.. until I can mill myself a faceplate for a driver box..
and new motor mounts..
it's hell to be without Z axis..
everything's so hard to do :)
take lots of time
doing that kind of defeats the purpose of having a cnc machine
well I need to go and have a barbeque with the huge amounts of cherry wood scraps the cnc machine is generating from production
but cherry has some cyanide derivatives in it
um...I'll tell you later how it works out...
just dont breate in too much
* robin_sz bounces enthusiastically
* paul_c throws a bucket of iced water over robin_sz
it will do no good
for today, I am bouncy
* robin_sz met with his distributors today
and it was a GOOD meeting
so what happened?
they liked the machine, it was just fine, very impressed ...
so it leaves here next friday :)
and they will order in batches of 5
which machine? plasma?
* robin_sz nods
damn? why so?
um...have a US distributor?
not yet, this is a UK deal
Your machines are very low cost...I guess they were convinced they also had high performance
oh yes. they were very pleased with the overal strenght, and the low backlash, minimal flex etc etc
well...on behalf of hobart and miller...why don't you send me some particulars?
...always looking for good products to sell...
I'm going to hang some white sheets around it this weekend and do some photos
* robin_sz will do
03Zathras 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/picax.xml: File changed. New revision:1.13
I was doing the white sheet thing too for some portfolio stuff
* robin_sz msgs les