guten abend meine freunden!
* robin_sz bounces up and down
* paul_c observes a seismic event occur just outside Brum...
you saying I'm fat?
Now where did I say or imply that ;-/
* robin_sz bounces again just to check ...
had fun today, ran the first few bits through the pwder oven
bit pongy, but most of that was the new fibreglass wool I put in burning off a bit
its got 48 500w halogen bulbs on half voltage, dunno how many kilowatts that is in reallity, but it gets well hot thats for sure
enough for a tan ?
well, enough to cook your lunch with I reckon
* paul_c prods jmkasunich to see if he is awake...
* alex_joni is back
What did I miss ?
me getting VERY angry
on M$ stuff...
I'm afraid I didn't succeed yet in finding the diff. between those 2 lists
but I'm working on it
Did you get the versioned list OK ?
I think so...
versions are in there ;)
You have the latest then.
hope the right ones ;)
anyway.. it's beyond bash scripting now... I need a .c program
to check for the versions
not perl or python then...
don't know either...
I'll do it like this...
read the file once, and make a list with packages and versions
reread the file and check all Requires: for the programs
it will echo if the dependency is not satisfyable (either one is missing, or version not ok)
* Imperator_ is wonders why Alex's german is better than mine :-)
paul: are you sure the versions are right?
alex_joni: Did you see the attempt at i18n support ?
or what i18n?
spell checking & man man pages
is it on cvs?
in the comps.xml
i am seeing it now
English, French, German, & Spanish...
lsb & kde
Do you think we should add 'mericun, or default to English for them too ?
There is a limit on disk space.
I like default
and I don't think it's that crucial
better include anything else
any ideea when I can take a peek at it?
As soon as I know if any deps are missing, I'll build a new disk.
* paul_c works on the emc package...
us 'murricans can read the King's english OK
Queen's English now.
it's the queens
we can read that too... we're tri-lingual!
you are gifted
and blessed :P
actually, it's rather humbling to see how well folks who's first language is not a flavor of english do here and on the lists
jmkasunich: A dilemma for you...
* jmkasunich listens
This 2.6.9 adaptation I've been working on...
Needs to be in SF somewhere really.
is that 1 or 2?
libnml, configure, and some of the make from 2
emc src, from 1 (after some hackery)
and a new run script.
the differences are that pronounced?
(bash is bash, isn't it - I wouldn't have expected the scripts to break)
To my way of thinking, it would be easier to do a branch in the emc2 tree rather than emc
agreed.... and besides "new development" is focused on 2, and 2.6 is certainly new
so what is the dilemma?
apart from the make files, there isn't that much "new" stuff with the 2.6 version
The dilemma is, if it goes in the emc2 tree, it totally ignores rtapi & hal
IOW, the work needed to make rtapi and hal work under 2.6 hasn't been done yet (or even started)
The groundwork for rtapi & hal is there
Most of the work is in the Make.
ok, then how are they being "ignored"?
the 2.6.9 code I have running here doesn't use rtapi or hal
but it's still "emc2"?
I think I'm beginning to understand
you have emc1 less rcslib plus libnml working under 2.6
For the most part, it is just a re-hash of the old emc code
to put that into SF under emc1 would be messy
messy, boardering on difficult.
but putting it into emc2 would be "incomplete", since the rtapi and hal parts aren't converted yet
If rcslib were to be built as a standalone lib, it could work.
ultimately it is up to you, you're doing the work
I'm sure there are folks who would like rcslib and thus a fairly stock emc1 to work under 2.6
as you know, that isn't important to me
but I'm not the one doing the work
libnml works just fine (apart from one tiny little warning being reported..)
* jmkasunich is back to wondering what the dilemma is... deciding where to put your work?
seems like two independent questions:
1) should it be a branch under emc2?
answer yes, of course
just cause that branch won't work yet (as normal emc2, w/rtapi and hal) doesn't mean we won't get there eventually
and 2.6 support is a requirement for emc2
question 2) should you release it under emc1 as well?
answer - depends on how much work would be involved to make it look just like (or similar to) the older emc1
I'm not going to try and run two identical trees in parallel.
I don't think a branch under emc1 that uses libnml instead of rcslib would be a good idea
agreed that two trees is not good
the only reason I used libnml over rcslib was purely convienence on my part.
question: if you committed the 2.6 compatible version of libnml to emc2 trunk, would it break anything for 2.4 or earlier folks?
likewise, the only reason for using emc(1) source was for speed.
Only two source files from libnml are essential for realtime code regardless of kernel version.
posemath.c & sincos.c
well if your goal is to get your 2.6 work into SF, just go ahead a commit it to the main trunk of emc2
err... On a branch
It would break the trunk big time.
I just asked you if it would break the trunk, and got a cryptic answer...
misread your question..
a 2.6 ready version of libnml woill not break anything for earlier kernels.
I was under the impression that ./configure would detect 2.6, and "activate" your changes (ifdefs, or whatever), and otherwise the result would be the same as the trunk
Most of the grunt is in the make files.
dealing with the change from foo.o to foo.somethingelse for kernel modules?
.ko, I think?
module extension is the most significant change
if the 2.6 ready version of libnml doesn't break things for other folks, I say commit it to the trunk
then if a branch is needed to make other parts "2.6 ready", take the branch after the libnml commits
resurrect the 2.6 fork, & merge the common parts...
(you know how to handle these things better than I anyway... why are you asking me?)
just wanted to talk it over?
I know how that goes... nothing better to get my thoughts in order than to try to explain them to someone else ;-)
also, didn't want to commit a load on non-hal/rtapi stuff and let you think the worst.
sooner or later I need to get my head around 2.6
how does one go about putting together a 2.6 system?
jmk: he does like me
I should have one on the compile farm
As long as you keep away from sysfs and kobjects, it is all in the make files.
waits for bdi3
bdi3 is gonna be 2.6 based?
from the ground up.
is that the answer to "how does one" or "bdi3 is gonna"?
bdi3 is gonna
(IRC can be frustrating at times)
* jmkasunich pre-orders a CD from Paul
bdi-3 is 2.6 based from the ground up.
* paul_c bills jmkasunich $1000
(no purchase tax)
* jmkasunich cancels order
* jmkasunich orders the CD from Ray instead
* paul_c files a writ in the Court of Utah
paul_c: how about shipping costs?
citing breach of contract
shipping would have been free ;)
it's $1.98 for the CD, $998.02 for shipping (personal delivery and installation by Paul)
how bout support?
ug... Not flying to Detriot again..
how bout romania?
can't be any worse than the rust belt.
I resemble that remark
jmkasunich: you must admit, Detriot is a right pit..
yes - it makes Cleveland look positively wonderfull
does anybody mind if i ask a couple of newbie questions?
* alex_joni didn' quite get that
how does cnc deal with hysterisis?
you mean backlash?
or deadband ?
i mean when you're reversing the direction of a cut, you need to spin the handle a little until the screw kicks in
backlash is the technical term
there is a parameter in emc.ini
from which you can define the size of your backlash
ah ok, that makes sense
but you still need to minimise backlash in the mechanics of the mill
i've toying with the idea of converting an old manual mill i have
it has rather a large backlash on the x and y
How old, and what type ?
about 0.25mm on the handle
not sure tbh, it's got BCA embossed on one side
and "R. Godfrey" on the other
it's very small
BCA jig borer ?
quite possibly, i know very little about this sort of thing
* paul_c offers Timbo a fiver & a bottle of single malt
already got a glenlivet on the shelf thanks
12 year old :)
just looking at pictures on the net
it is indeed a BCA jig borer :)
[22:22:42] <paul_c> http://www.anglo-swiss-tools.co.uk/Resources/BCA.jpg
With a rotary table ?
[22:24:58] <paul_c> http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/cat_leaf.php?id=41
yeah that's the one i was looking at
it is exactly that model afaics
not in as good condition though
the table has cuts in it from whatever moron operated it in its previous life
It can be reconditioned
There is a company that specialises in BCA reconditioning
oh it's perfectly useable
just looks a bit tired
Seems a shame to convert it to CNC
current value, about �600-1000
after conversion, �200-300
meh, it's not going any where
i would probably use it more if it were CNC
I'd even be tempted to trade a Sherline for it...
why is it cheaper after conversion?
just look at the number of second hand CNC machines on the market
the old Bridgeport BOSS machines are being thrown away as boat anchors
where is said market btw?
head over to Manchester/Birmingham
that was another angle i was looking at, but i've found it hard to come across small second hand CNC
* alex_joni is back in 5 mins
benchtop CNC just doesn't exist outside hobby & schools
for example, my CNC mill is a baby
but weighs in at 1.5 tonnes
i've been skulking on ebay
and you occasionally see denford college kit popping up
I 'spose it really depends on how much you want to sink into a cnc project.
what can i say, i'm scottish :)
wasn't going to say a word
Glasgow, or Edinboro' ?
Just up the A1 a bit from me then.
what is it with you UK folks and regional rivalries anyway?
You had your North/South disputes
Timbo: You listen to B. Connolly ?
is rayh just lurking....
and the Bovril scetch
funny man :)
.... or was that Carrot....
don't remember tbh
But you know of it ?
you know anthing about linear motors ray?
yeah, does ring a bell
Lots of snow now.
* alex_joni is fileld with envy
alex likes snow?
jmkasunich: only that they move back and forth rather than around.
Timbo: Re BCA
* jmkasunich got some goodies from the dumpster
Till used linear motors on his BIG hexapod.
jmk: lots of it
two anorad linear motors
measure the space you have around the leadscrews & nuts
What's the stroke.
one about 36", one about 24"
(not here at home yet, still stashed at work)
Ho! Wah! (a coloquial expression for envy)
one has a glass scale that could probably be demounted and used for a dro or something
the other has a "renishaw" thing that looks like a gold tape, can't be demounted
don't have drives for either one, just the motor/rail/scale combo
Sony used a tape with a magnetic setup.
also found a heidenham (sp?) glass scale about 4' long
Fam has been out playing on the frozen lake.
appears to be new old stock - spotless, but the transulcent red rubbery stuff that's supposet to keep dirt out is crumbling
About six months of the year we can walk on water just like the big folk.
is the "Ho Wa" an indication that you could use it? or just plain ole envy?
Just plain old envy.
paul_c: i'm not entirely sure what you mean...
Not a clue how you run a linear motor.
looks to be a three phase winding, I bet it's like an AC brushless servo
depends on the linear motor
paul_c: slamr.o is no good without the installer. I downloaded 2.4.27 headers...
alex_joni: Are there differences like with DC and AC?
I think so.. I ain't any experience
I've seen a cool one though
it was a XY type
just a baseplate
with a gismo on it
and that gismo could be moved in any direction
Timbo: Googling for data
I saw a Mittsubish that was similar.
this was a hywin, if my memory serves me right
* jmkasunich leaves for dinner - stepson's 21st birthday!
jmk: HIWIN linear motors of series LMS and LMC are 3-phase synchronous motors
alex_joni: I'll investigate more when I bring them home
jmkasunich is now known as jmk_away
there are some linear stages with steppers inside too
these are definitely linear motors, move freely without cogging when de-energized
up to 1m/sec
Wow. Those are some stats.
how about those accuracies?
* rayh begins to dream about a machine.
paul: short question
with the LMDX driver you can give it step and direction commands.
I saw that
[23:00:59] <paul_c> http://www.thomsonindustries.com/PDFs/Catalogs_and_Brochures/BallScrews_and_BallSplines.pdf
paul_c: about that board
the 82C55 lets you decide which pin is input or output
On a port by port basis
Port C can be split though
but if I put the optocoupling on the board
it's pretty much fixed
what if the opto's are on a breakout board?
depending on what you need
optocouplers on a seperate board is no prob - Can breadboard relay drivers, etc..
it saves space on thePC104 too
I'll put a IDE connector on the PC104
is that ok?
for all the IO connections
and something for the encoders
with optocoupling on board
because those are fixed
the encoders would want RS485 drivers wouldn't they ?
the encoders get connected to the LS7266
yes.... However, may encoders use a differential signal
you mean not standard A/B quadrature?
I used only quadrature ones... till now
* paul_c greps for some specs
paul_c: that was my other newbie question... what's a ball screw?
Didya follow those two links ?
i need to read more of them then? :)
basically, low friction, low backlash feedscrew
...ok, that's what i figured, but no website really spelled it out
Do you have a decent bearing supplier up your way ?
there are a couple of engineering places yeah
hendersons and... i forget the name
$28 seems pretty inexpensive
Go and ask them about the Thompson Saginaw 5/8" rolled ball screws
* rayh got a family committment.
probably have to wait til next weekend though
i have to work tomorrow
[23:34:58] <paul_c> http://www.mcmaster.com/
- Go to page 976
paul: about those version numbers
are you sure they are ok?
passwd is version 1
pax, pciutils too
Hmm... and pciutils-dev, the Requires is truncated..
hey, what do you guys use to design your GCode? or do you guys do it all by hand?
I tried SheetCAM
sheetcam isn't free or won't be... and isn't it only 2d?
* paul_c uses pen'n'paper
Eagle? as it Eagle layout editor?
it's only 2D.. but it's free for now
yea, for PCB-s
although cradek should have more experience on this
eagle is free... I know and use that... but only to print my PCBs onto laser paper, and iron onto copper clad boards, and etch.
I tried DeskCam (not free either)
ace is free
but it only converts from dxf
* paul_c has played with Synergy
ace is free, and aweful. :) But does the job... albeit very slowly. :)
I've played with mastercam... and it's fairly easy to use... if you watch someone else do it a couple of times.
bobcam I found _aweful_
Qcad (or Qcam)...
i really like qcad's interface
even if the widget set makes it look like 1990
Timbo: Are you running Linux yet ?
Linux borboletta 2.4.24 #1 Fri Jan 30 15:57:36 GMT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
yeah I use Eagle to make pcbs
eagle and EMC, that is
my job (and degree) is in computers
i've been running linux for many years now
tonight jepler and I are announcing our public beta of AXIS
I sent email to both lists
there is also a webpage at http://axis.unpy.net
alex_joni: New check.list without truncated version numbers
But.... (pax for example) shows as 1:1.5-15
ignore anything before the colon, so version would be 1.5-15
did you intentionally leave out empty Provides: lines?
no... but where Provides is missing, assume the name replaces it.
can regenerate if required.
neah.. let me code for a while
will tell you if it's neccessary
ahh, indeed so
ar we having fun?