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[00:15:27] <jepler> Seb: yes. again the existing code for OK for x86 as far as we understand
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[00:22:27] <seb_kuzminsky> right
[00:22:54] <seb_kuzminsky> cmorley: the beginning of panelui.c still has the original copyright comments, that needs an update
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[00:26:52] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05panelui 5d649c2 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/components/Submakefile panelui: fix linker argument order * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=5d649c2
[00:42:42] <cmorley> hey thanks for the (I assume) fix! I will update the copyright when I merge in master - as it will need some love.
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[00:43:23] <seb_kuzminsky> :-)
[00:43:38] <cmorley> oh wow that was an easy fix once you know how.. thanks again
[00:44:56] <seb_kuzminsky> in general, the linker discovers what symbols are needed as it goes along the argument list left to right, and adds the symbols it needs as it goes, so objects that need symbols must come before objects that provide those symbols
[00:45:42] <seb_kuzminsky> i guess the debian tools do some smarter kind of multi-pass linking
[00:46:08] <seb_kuzminsky> http://tinyurl.com/ycrture
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[00:46:39] <cmorley> Since make files are a bit of a mystery - i was lost - i usually experiment to find the answer
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[01:36:31] <jepler> cmorley: I pushed the hal sampler/streamer changes I mentioned last week to master branch today. I am pretty sure this means that you'll need to make corresponding changes in your code.
[01:36:59] <jepler> I hope that it ends up being a simplifying change, because now there's an API for creating a sampler/streamer, for getting values out of it, etc
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[05:05:28] <c_morley> Yes I saw you pushed to master. I'm sure it will be fine. Thanks
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[06:43:58] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chris morley 05panelui b9aebd8 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/pyui/widgets.py panelui -supress debug text for widget initialization * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=b9aebd8
[06:43:59] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chris morley 05panelui ab9b98e 06linuxcnc 03configs/sim/axis/panelui-demo/README panelui: add README to sample config * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab9b98e
[06:43:59] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chris morley 05panelui 84ec196 06linuxcnc 10configs/sim/axis/panelui-demo/custom_postgui.hal panelui: cleanup postgui.hal file * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=84ec196
[06:44:00] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chris morley 05panelui 18a4a09 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/pyui/panelui_spec.ini panelui: update validation INI file * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=18a4a09
[06:44:04] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chris morley 05panelui 396ec11 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/pyui/master.py panelui: search different paths for INI file * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=396ec11
[06:44:08] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03chris morley 05panelui 8199b6c 06linuxcnc 10configs/sim/axis/panelui-demo/custom_postgui.hal 10configs/sim/axis/panelui-demo/panel.glade 10configs/sim/axis/panelui-demo/panelui_handler.py panelui: add a custom command button * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=8199b6c
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[13:02:30] <jepler> yet another joomla update, nothing critical this time
[13:08:21] <jepler> nice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSwDVi8W2XM&feature=youtu.be
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[13:09:45] <jepler> seems to shell out to rs274 to interpret gcode
[13:13:35] <archivist> just need to join that and vismach
[13:34:03] <cncbasher> can we not add that simulation to axis
[13:35:51] <jepler> archivist, cncbasher I am sure you'll let me know when it's done
[13:36:11] <jepler> that specific code is gpl3 so there are license problems incorporating it directly in linuxcnc
[13:36:36] <archivist> I imagine the simulations speed is not quite what we want
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[14:28:25] <cncbasher> it would be nice if it's solveable
[14:29:02] <cncbasher> anders may allow to change the licence to what we need , if he's asked
[14:31:17] <archivist> he is lurking in here :)
[14:32:33] <archivist> I see the need for boost as a hurdle as it seems to break projects on a regular basis when they change stuff
[14:33:28] <cncbasher> yea it needs to be binned
[14:34:49] <archivist> one thing this project needs is stability
[14:37:48] <cncbasher> yea i'm sick of chasing things that were once fixed , only for them to reappear
[14:38:37] <cncbasher> and as you say use code thats a bit more stable
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[15:53:02] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Robert W. Ellenberg 05feature/uvw-blending-dev b6aca16 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/tp/tp.c tp: compute current velocity directly from TP displacement. * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=b6aca16
[15:53:02] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Robert W. Ellenberg 05feature/uvw-blending-dev 61a08c7 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/tp/tp.c tp: suppress some unneeded debug information * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=61a08c7
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[15:56:57] <linuxcnc-build> build #71 of 1505.rip-jessie-rtai-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed install-missing-build-dependencies compile] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/1505.rip-jessie-rtai-i386/builds/71 blamelist: Robert W. Ellenberg <rwe24g@gmail.com>
[16:01:16] <seb_kuzminsky> rob: that needs a rebase to a newer version of master (or 2.7, if that's what you're targetting)
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[16:33:22] <linuxcnc-build> build #3822 of 0000.checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/0000.checkin/builds/3822 blamelist: Robert W. Ellenberg <rwe24g@gmail.com>
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[17:29:48] <andypugh> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/24-hal-components/29816-pokeys#64207
[17:30:11] <andypugh> Seems like a HAL component that could potentially be absorbed into the project.
[17:31:06] <andypugh> (It would need caveats in the manpage that it is _not_ realtime IO
[17:32:09] <seb_kuzminsky> andypugh: neat
[17:32:15] <jepler> it depends on an LGPL3 library. besides needing to package it, can we link LGPL3 with GPL2-only code which what ends up happening when you run it?
[17:33:03] <jepler> this table from 2007 suggests otherwise
http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/floss-license-slide.html
[17:33:52] <andypugh> Ah, that does seem to be something of a fly in the ointment
[17:34:01] <jepler> I sucks and I hate it :-/
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[17:37:23] <andypugh> Where do you get the LGPL3 thing from?
https://bitbucket.org/mbosnak/pokeyslib/ just says “LGPL”
[17:38:05] <andypugh> Not that that necessarily helps...
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[17:38:14] <jepler> https://bitbucket.org/mbosnak/pokeyslib/src/2cc09d5c051a15a109877c0cc21d7da558ab37b5/License.txt?at=master&fileviewer=file-view-default
[17:38:17] <jepler> GNU LESSER GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
[17:38:18] <jepler> Version 3, 29 June 2007
[17:39:16] <andypugh> Ah, OK. I only got as far as the intro screen. license.txt is explicilty V3
[17:41:03] <jepler> it's absolutely fine to distribute in source form, and to build it and run it
[17:41:11] <jepler> but the binary is not distributable AIUI
[17:42:29] <andypugh> So, there is no proble with chap on the forum posting a .comp that depends on it, but we can never distribute his compiled comp?
[17:44:14] <jepler> It is impossible to distribute a binary that meets the GPL version 2 only license requirement of liblinuxcnchal AND the LGPL version 3 license of pokeyslib
[17:44:59] <jepler> other activities, like distribution of the source, modification and use are not affected
[17:46:04] <andypugh> I have forgotten where we got to on the desitrability and practicality of relicensing the GPLV2-only bits of LinuxCNC
[17:46:37] <jepler> nobody has done the work of getting consent to relicense from anybody
[17:46:54] <jepler> or at least, positive results have never been reported
[17:47:10] <jepler> matt shaver had offered to pursue it after the meeting a few years ago in Wichita but I never heard any results one way or another
[17:47:28] <jepler> .. I've gone on public record about my own contrbutions to LinuxCNC being OK to license under GPLv2+
[17:48:12] <jepler> assuming that getting permission will not come to fruition, the other possibility is to identify parts that have to be replaced, but it's hard in a project like ours to say we have made a clean-room implementation
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[17:49:07] <cradek> iirc, matt started doing the work, one person said no, it was pointless to continue
[17:51:31] <jepler> you mean, he got "no" from one person he asked?
[17:52:41] <andypugh> I think I can guess who
[17:53:07] <jepler> is this a case of matt preferred not to say who it was?
[17:53:40] <jepler> this all makes me very sad when I have to think about it.
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[17:56:16] <pcw_home> modest proposal for a raster output hal comp:
[17:56:18] <pcw_home> basically a stepgen modified for clocking out FIFO data
[17:56:19] <pcw_home> so position locked, but scaled by its independent rate generator DDS
[17:56:21] <pcw_home> with data gating (stream start stop) done with a step position comparator
[17:56:22] <pcw_home> This model should work for both software (comp) and hardware (FPGA)
[17:56:24] <pcw_home> and can be linked to a single axis or a hypot distance for position painting
[17:56:25] <pcw_home> curved paths
[17:57:42] <jepler> pcw_home: I would love to dig into this soon.
[17:58:19] <andypugh> I started to write that pair of comps. A userspace one that loaded jpeg into shared memory and a realtime one that generated a position raster and intensity oiutput.
[17:59:00] <jepler> the sampler/streamer API in master branch helps with the buffering / shared memory aspect of it
[17:59:25] <andypugh> But then I got interested in whether I could write a finite-jerk raster scanner with no actual lookahead, and then realised that as I don’t have a laser it was not something I coule ever test.
[17:59:55] <andypugh> The WIP is somewhere on the forum.
[18:00:12] <jepler> afk for lunch
[18:04:05] <cncbasher> if you need it testing Andy , i have laser here
[18:07:04] <andypugh> I have basically abandoned it. I have lots of things higher up my list. I doubt I will ever dig down to it.
[18:08:26] <cncbasher> yes your like me , the list gets longer the more work you do
[18:09:55] <pcw_home> Whats funny is I actually implemented something like this for a customer a long time ago (all in a FPGA)
[18:09:57] <pcw_home> (XY velocity modulated output for laser heat treating)
[18:10:26] <andypugh> Strangely I get a lot more done when I am not on IRC…
[18:10:59] <cncbasher> arh , thats the problem, i see it now !
[18:11:01] <andypugh> Time to log off and try to remind myself what I was doing
[18:11:43] <cncbasher> pcw_home:maybe time to revive it
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[18:16:56] <pcw_home> Most can be done in HAL and I think its best to do with a comp first
[18:16:57] <pcw_home> as that's an easier environment to develop/test in and the result is
[18:16:59] <pcw_home> usable for parallel port systems and a good model for hardware.
[18:17:00] <pcw_home> For raster output on servo thread only systems (like our Ethernet cards) hardware
[18:17:02] <pcw_home> help is needed for the rate clock, FIFO, and gating
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[18:44:08] <cncbasher> yea i was thinking as an option somehow on a card for laser use
[18:57:20] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05joints_axes10 0f35bda 06linuxcnc New branch with 224 commits pushed, 10519 files changed, 0325782(+), 0418856(-) since master/404093e
[18:57:50] <KGB-linuxcnc> 05dgarr/ja10v4 17ad78f 06linuxcnc 04. branch deleted * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=17ad78f
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[19:03:16] <seb_kuzminsky> wooo!
[19:08:12] <cradek> sweet
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[19:48:04] <skunkworks> How much extra data would you have to send every servo cycle?
[19:48:14] <skunkworks> to do rasterizing in the fpga?
[19:48:37] <skunkworks> I suppose that is like 'how long is a stick' - depends on the resolution and speed.
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[20:07:53] <PCW> Yeah unless you are doing film exposure the data rate is not very high
[20:15:27] <PCW> even 8x 32 bit words would get you to 256 KHz for binary data out /1Khz servo thread
[20:15:28] <PCW> or 32 KHz for 8 bit PWM so its not a lot
[20:19:33] <PCW> 32 KHz is ~1 mill resolution at 1800 IPM so probably enough
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[20:23:04] <jepler> I haven't found much information about the appropriate frequency to modulate a laser. Lots of chinese modules with no real documentation in english.
[20:23:07] <jepler> http://jtechphotonics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/5KHz-Input-Signal-2.jpg
[20:24:06] <PCW> Diode lasers should be capable of modulation rates to the MHz region, CO2 are much slower
[20:24:43] <jepler> this is a blue solid state laser, green is input and purple is current feedback
[20:24:48] <PCW> (diode lasers with appropriate drivers)
[20:24:54] <jepler> looks like rise/fall times are a good 10uS with this driver
[20:25:04] <jepler> and of course lots of laser drivers have no real english documentation
[20:26:09] <PCW> yeah, pretty decent
[20:28:26] <PCW> If you used PWM, the PWM rate could probably be only be 10 KHz or so with that driver
[20:30:34] <PCW> Some drivers seem to use analog (you can get pretty decent analog out of the FPGA with 8 bit PWM
[20:30:36] <PCW> since that allows a PWM rate of about 800 KHz, which is easily filtered even at 30 KHz or so update rate)
[20:30:59] <jepler> I agree. You might be able to push a bit further by implementing some sort of compensation function between pixel values and pwm values (in addition to the gamma conversion you'll need to do)
[20:31:51] <PCW> Yeah I expect very funny non-linearities with laser marking
[20:32:37] <jepler> yup that's what I found with my tiny blue laser.
https://emergent.unpythonic.net/01444658636#https://media.unpythonic.net/emergent-files/01444658636/IMG_20151008_205502-medium.jpg
[20:33:30] <jepler> the bottom right sample shows that trying to vary velocity doesn't give a useful gradient .. then ignore the tall black rectangle .. the next one shows that varying PWM (not sure what carrier frequency I used though) didn't either
[20:33:46] <jepler> in this case, the solid-state blue laser is driven by a darlington transistor
[20:34:05] <jepler> just open loop current/power and cross your fingers it doesn't eat itself
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[20:35:01] <PCW> There must to be some positive feedback from greater absorbance in charred areas
[20:35:11] <jepler> I think you're right
[20:35:52] <jepler> this is basswood. I had different results with thin cardboard when varying feed rates (third image on that page)
[20:36:01] <PCW> is the best gradient from a dithered image source?
[20:36:34] <jepler> yes, on that material 1BPP dithering gave the most usable image
[20:37:24] <jepler> I should try cardboard again
[20:37:40] <PCW> yeah not a good continuous tone media :-)
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[20:57:02] <jepler> here's another 2.5A laser driver for solid state lasers with a good datasheet. Its signal bandwidth is 1.1kHz
http://www.thorlabs.com/NewGroupPage9.cfm?ObjectGroup_ID=1366
[20:57:26] <jepler> (LD3000R)
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[22:40:39] <CaptHindsight> jepler: what wavelength blue? ~460nm?
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[22:44:18] <CaptHindsight> or Blu ~405nm
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[22:55:46] <jepler> CaptHindsight: no idea honestly
[22:55:56] <jepler> whatever they sent from china for the lowest price possible
[22:56:42] <CaptHindsight> does it look blue or more violet?
[22:56:56] <jepler> I would call it very clearly blue and not violet
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