Back
[00:07:59] <malcom2073_> cradek: Technically, all of the worst software as well
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[00:18:05] <jepler> ok this is crazy -- a 28-bit R-2R DAC. look at all those SMD parts!
http://soekris.com/products/audio-products/dam1021.html
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[00:23:14] <PCW> Dont expect surface mount resistors to be anything but nice strain gauges if you ask much more than about .1% from them
[00:25:09] <PCW> Learned this the hard way (use resistors with flexible leads if you want precision)
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[00:41:56] <jepler> I just don't see how the result of any error budget tells you to build a 28-bit DAC
[00:42:47] <jepler> but if it's not the error budget but the audiophile's budget that tells you to do it...
[00:43:07] <PCW> Yep there's that
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[01:18:32] <jepler> the RSS feed behaves differently if you're logged in vs logged out
[01:18:34] <jepler> http://forum.linuxcnc.org.unpythonic.net/index.php/forum/topics/posts?format=feed
[01:18:38] <jepler> that's weird
[01:19:00] <jepler> as does the html version
http://forum.linuxcnc.org.unpythonic.net/index.php/forum/topics/posts
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[01:20:37] <jepler> supposedly fixed in 2012
https://github.com/Kunena/Kunena-Forum/issues/1027
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[03:40:52] <cradek> jepler: I've never heard of being logged in for rss, and I'm sure I don't know how to do that with r2e
[03:45:52] <mozmck> can you set a parameter in the RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE string? such as: RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE = #40 = 0.291
[03:46:33] <cradek> I don't know without trying
[03:46:51] <cradek> I know you can make #40 persistent by adding a #40 line in the var file
[03:47:11] <mozmck> hmm, yes, that might be a way to do what I need.
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[03:47:29] <mozmck> I don't guess you can read an INI value in G-code?
[03:47:56] <cradek> don't think so
[03:48:16] <mozmck> I didn't either. I'll play with it then and see what I can do.
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[03:54:30] <mozmck> putting it in RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE appears to work
[03:54:38] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.7-realtime-unload-race d523d9e 06linuxcnc 10scripts/realtime.in realtime script: wait for the last rtapi_app to die when stopping realtime * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=d523d9e
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[03:55:01] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: did i implement your idea adequately?
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[05:19:45] <cmorley> mozmck:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/remap/remap.html#remap:referto-inifile-variables
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[12:07:11] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: yes that is essentially the shell script I imagined writing.
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[13:11:25] <cradek> I didn't know about $SECONDS
[13:12:59] <jepler> a bashism I guess?
[13:20:38] <cradek> jepler: does this help you understand community builder?:
http://www.joomlapolis.com/images/stories/cbsubs.jpg
[13:22:14] <jepler> ummm
[13:22:22] <jepler> I have to say I suspected it might be an unhelpful image before I opened it
[13:22:45] <cradek> well, you know me
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[13:32:10] <JT-Shop> jepler, if you want to give me administrator rights to the test site I can learn how to format the pages etc in a safe place
[13:32:49] <mozmck> cmorley: thanks! I missed that somehow.
[13:32:58] <jepler> JT-Shop: happy to, jas
[13:33:51] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.7 5972fc8 06linuxcnc 10src/Makefile 10src/emc/motion/motion_debug.h Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/2.6' into 2.7 * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=5972fc8
[13:33:51] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.7 cc589a5 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/motion-logger/motion-logger.c 10tests/motion-logger/expected.builtin-startup motion-logger: add the new Motion commands in 2.7 * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=cc589a5
[13:33:55] <jepler> JT-Shop: you should be able to do anything now
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[13:36:05] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.7 96026f6 06linuxcnc 10scripts/realtime.in realtime script: wait for the last rtapi_app to die when stopping realtime * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=96026f6
[13:36:53] <KGB-linuxcnc> 052.7-realtime-unload-race d523d9e 06linuxcnc 04. branch deleted * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=d523d9e
[13:36:53] <KGB-linuxcnc> 052.7-test-startup-shutdown 28f9af8 06linuxcnc 04. branch deleted * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=28f9af8
[13:41:36] <JT-Shop> hmm, either I forgot my password or it got reset
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[13:53:08] <ssi> 20:18 < jepler> ok this is crazy -- a 28-bit R-2R DAC. look at all those SMD parts!
http://soekris.com/products/audio-products/dam1021.html
[13:53:17] <ssi> that's... awesome. In a terrible sort of way
[13:53:42] <ssi> similar, but slightly less terrible:
[13:53:42] <ssi> http://www.amb.org/audio/delta1/
[13:53:57] <ssi> I built one of those, and aside from the switching noise when changing volumes, it works pretty well
[13:54:09] <ssi> but to pcw's point, it's all leaded precision resistors
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[14:01:47] <skunkworks> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/149242
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[14:09:24] <jepler> ssi: nice
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[14:09:58] <jepler> JT-Shop: uh oh, when I was updating your account it said something about the passwords not matching
[14:10:16] <jepler> JT-Shop: were you able to get logged in again? looks like a perfect opportunity to try the password reset procedure :-/
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[14:10:53] <jepler> cradek: Yes, normally a RSS fetcher wouldn't be logged in to the forum or whatever site it's fetching rss from
[14:11:13] <jepler> cradek: but I was looking at the rss feed via my web browser, and its contents did depend on whether I was logged into the website in another tab or not
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[14:14:07] <JT-Shop> I'm logged into the forum when I go to /administrator it asks for my username and password. After I enter it I get You do not have access to the Administrator section of this site. When I click on the ? next to password and enter my user name it says I'm already logged in.
[14:16:02] <jepler> JT-Shop: I tried changing your user groups again
[14:16:04] <jepler> please try again?
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[14:16:37] <JT-Shop> that worked
[14:16:38] <jepler> it does look like the settings I made earlier didn't stick but I think this time they did
[14:16:46] <jepler> i'm not very good at website
[14:17:52] <jepler> JT-Shop: if you do make changes via the administrator interface, make note of what they are since like everything else they'll get deleted when I do the real upgrade.
[14:18:02] <JT-Shop> ok, will do
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[14:28:16] <seb_kuzminsky> wow, rob ellenbergs email to gene was really well thought out and clearly worded, what great support
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[14:30:00] <jepler> sometimes I do wonder if we should have different G64 defaults
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[14:43:40] <jepler> but on the other hand I feel strongly that all relevant modal codes should be specified at the top of a part program
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[14:46:41] <jepler> on yet another hand, you want to just start up your machine and MDI sometimes
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[14:48:36] <mozmck> It can be put in the RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE
[14:49:12] <ssi> does that execute only once at axis launch, or does it execute before every program?
[14:49:34] <ssi> in other words, if you default G64 in ini like that, and a program modifies it, does it stay modified for a subsequent program that doesn't explicitly set it?
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[14:50:04] <mozmck> Hmm, I think it does
[14:50:36] <ssi> I mean, jepler's right... for consistency, every program should set all modals
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[14:54:18] <jepler> yes, the way the G64 setting works (not reset to a default value by M2 and certainly not by a program that is terminated by %) means it's even important to specify in your part programs even if you have a value you like in your RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE
[14:55:55] <JT-Shop> I've always thought G61 should be the default as the safest way to run a machine with slow acceleration
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[14:56:58] <ssi> other than plasma, what case would G64 be a sensible default?
[14:57:31] <ssi> oh I guess that's part of the TP issues with small line segments isn't it
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[14:58:50] <jepler> JT-Shop: possibly
[14:59:16] <JT-Shop> I've often seen questions as to why the end mill or drill broke off retracting out of a hole then rapiding to next location
[14:59:26] <jepler> JT-Shop: but so what if it is -- you can put G61 in RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE, but that's no guarantee that G61 is in effect when you start your second part program during a session
[15:00:22] <cradek> this is maybe beside the point, but I'm pretty sure drill cycles automatically switch to g61 mode and back, for you
[15:00:33] <jepler> we *could* redefine what happens to the blend mode at M2 / % I suppose
[15:01:08] <cradek> we could also choose to not blend rapids
[15:01:44] <ssi> for the modals that are more "machine specific", it might make sense to reset to default then startup_code, for principle of least surprise
[15:02:18] <jepler> but the G64 setting is *NOT* machine specific. The proper setting is informed both by machine details AND by part tolerances
[15:02:54] <ssi> true, but I can imagine people sticking with one G64 setting for the machine as a whole... again, thinking about plasma machines
[15:03:22] <ssi> you're still right in that competent operators should be specifying modals in every program header
[15:03:39] <jepler> afk
[15:03:55] <ssi> but I'm just thinking about folks who set a machine up a particular way, are sloppy about modals, and then run someone else's program or test program that modifies their "defaults" and they don't realise it
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[15:45:18] <seb_kuzminsky> http://linuxgizmos.com/raspberry-pi-2-clone-runs-linux-on-an-intel-atom-x5/
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[15:59:25] <jepler> 16GB eMMC is nice. hopefully the ethernet is on PCIe but I don't see it called out in the block diagram
[16:00:02] <ssi> might could do mesa via spi if not
[16:00:07] <jepler> yeah, might could
[16:01:37] <jepler> I have a feeling that 1GB RAM and 1.84GHz means it's going to be as lousy for *developing* linuxcnc as any of those ARM boards
[16:02:02] <ssi> I'd happily pay $100 for a small form factor sbc that runs linuxcnc w/axis well via mesa hardware
[16:02:08] <ssi> I hate having to manage full size pcs
[16:02:17] <jepler> yes agreed fully
[16:02:37] <ssi> was really hoping that the bbb would be that two years ago, but obviously that didn't pan out
[16:02:48] <ssi> I don't care about the low cost aspect so much
[16:03:05] <ssi> the host is the cheapest part of the machine integration :P
[16:03:23] <jepler> I spend 1000x as much time developing linuxcnc than using it, so stuff like "can rebuild a source tree in way under a minute" is a real perk and none of the itty bitty systems do that
[16:03:58] <ssi> yea absolutely
[16:04:10] <ssi> but hopefully on an x86 system there shouldn't be too much on-system development work
[16:04:26] <ssi> not a lot of porting and device tree crap like you have to do on the arm boards
[16:05:44] <jepler> you taking out a bet about our Wheezy image installing and running with good latency and no hacking necessary?
[16:05:51] <ssi> nope! :D
[16:06:02] <ssi> just hoping for "reduced" hacking
[16:06:03] <jepler> the linux kernel mailing list is as full of "make this new shit from intel work" as "make this new shit from unknown arm SBC manufacturer work"
[16:07:53] <seb_kuzminsky> pcw_home has mentioned a little tupperware computer a couple of times, apparently it's a regular PC with no porting needed, and it's fast enough to be a devel box, and it's got good enough latency to run a machine
[16:14:11] <pcw_home> Its not fast (well faster than the older Atom D525/D2550) but runs Preemt-RT well enough
[16:15:04] <seb_kuzminsky> does it have a free PCIe port? or dual ethernet? how do you connect the fpga to it?
[16:15:22] <pcw_home> There are a lot of VESA mount mini PCs from the J1800 class up to I7s
[16:15:43] <pcw_home> Ethernet (and USB wireless)
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[16:16:13] <pcw_home> (Ethernet --> FPGA USB wireless--> net)
[16:19:06] <pcw_home> most mini PCs have built in wireless but the stream mini (Tupperware)
[16:19:08] <pcw_home> has a Broadcom card that
[16:19:09] <pcw_home> 1. requires fetching and installing Broadcoms binary driver
[16:19:11] <pcw_home> 2. and does bad things to latency
[16:19:12] <pcw_home> So I had t use a USB wireless dongle for network access
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[16:30:51] <ssi> you're using wireless for rt mesa?
[16:31:00] <ssi> or using the builtin ethernet for mesa and using the usb wireless for network
[16:31:47] <jepler> ssi: the latter, I think
[16:32:02] <ssi> that makes more sense
[16:32:12] <ssi> ah I see how to parse what pcw said there
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[16:34:22] <pcw_home> The Atheros wireless in my laptop seems OK latency wise, Ive never had good luck with broadcom
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[16:36:07] <linuxcnc-build_> build #2850 of 4006.deb-lucid-rtai-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_1] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/4006.deb-lucid-rtai-i386/builds/2850 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>
[16:37:05] <jepler> 00:19.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82567V-2 Gigabit Network Connection
[16:37:08] <jepler> 04:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82574L Gigabit Network Connection00:19.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection (rev 04)
[16:37:18] <jepler> these are the three ethernets I regularly use with hm2_eth
[16:39:56] <pcw_home> the Realtek ones work well also
[16:40:12] <pcw_home> (8168, 8169, 8111, 8139)
[16:41:29] <pcw_home> the Realtek MACs don't have the IRQ coalescing option in the driver so dont need the ethtool tweak
[16:42:26] <pcw_home> the newer low cost Intel macs work also (210,211 etc)
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[17:58:26] <skunkworks> rob emailed me and he is looking into a way to do circular arc blending in all axis..
[17:58:43] <skunkworks> he said it is 'complicated' ;)
[17:59:10] <jepler> I was just musing this weekend that hot glue guns can't use the Ellenberg TP since they're always moving an additional axis for the extruder
[18:00:02] <ssi> hm really?
[18:00:56] <skunkworks> the workaround the machinekit people are doing is 'velocity' extruding..
[18:01:21] <jepler> skunkworks: so they noticed the limitation
[18:01:58] <skunkworks> it actually works ok - usually you can have the accelleration of the protoypers so high that it works..
[18:02:11] <skunkworks> (1 segment blending)
[18:03:07] <skunkworks> that is how charles reprap was setup at wichita..
[18:03:39] <skunkworks> and it seemed to do ok. but ti would be nice to have X lookahead in rotory axis also
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[18:06:04] <skunkworks> jepler,
http://basdebruijn.com/tag/velocity-extrusion/
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[18:10:04] <pcw_home> One of our customers would _really_ like XYZA CAB to work
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[19:55:05] <skunkworks_> yikes - he really seems to want to move away from the hobby side
[19:55:07] <skunkworks_> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mach1mach2cnc/conversations/messages/149263
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[19:59:22] <cradek> so ... he expects people to politely help him do early testing for free, and also buy the result from him?
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[19:59:35] <skunkworks_> correct
[19:59:44] <cradek> welp
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[20:00:01] <skunkworks_> some have already bought the software..
[20:00:20] <cradek> welp
[20:00:26] <skunkworks_> so you are paying to test.. :)
[20:00:52] <seb_kuzminsky> we should definitely charge skunkworks more
[20:00:56] <skunkworks_> no reason to be upset about that... ;)
[20:01:24] <skunkworks_> I would pay twice - but nothing more..
[20:01:30] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
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[20:02:40] <skunkworks_> (I would pay mesa twice what he charges but don't tell him that...)
[20:03:40] <seb_kuzminsky> for realsies
[20:03:50] <andypugh> I got a nice stack of 6 Mesa cards today (6i24, 7i49, 7i44, 7i85, 7i73, 8i20)
[20:03:52] <cradek> actually I think we should double skunkworks's salary too
[20:04:41] <skunkworks_> oooh - awesome!
[20:04:50] <seb_kuzminsky> my weekend netted -1 mesa cards, but it went to a good cause, and i got a clearer idea about my robot arm kinematics in trade so i'm calling it a win
[20:04:59] <cradek> yay!
[20:05:15] <cradek> (uh dude isn't that just a right triangle?)
[20:05:19] <cradek> -> mesa card
[20:05:24] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
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[21:25:05] <JT-Shop> I have a handle on Kunena now!
[21:30:58] <jepler> what's that mean?
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[21:34:21] <JT-Shop> I know how to arrange things like the log in which was on the right column and now is in the header
[21:34:48] <JT-Shop> this version is much easier to do things like that
[21:35:04] <jepler> oh I see
[21:35:25] <jepler> I thought 'handle' like on CB radio
[21:36:13] <jepler> since the page doesn't spread out to my full browser window I like getting rid of the right column
[21:36:44] <jepler> at one point it had a list of logged-in users on the side bar. do people want things like that?
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[21:38:16] <JT-Shop> not sure how helpful that would be, you can't PM anyone
[21:38:20] <jepler> ok
[21:38:51] <jepler> are there two login prompts now? I guess you're actively working on organizing it..?
[21:38:57] <jepler> I'll stop watching every little move.
[21:40:40] <JT-Shop> there we go, you can look now
[21:41:35] <jepler> ok
[21:41:42] <jepler> I take it you haven't found any showstopper problems yet either?
[21:42:31] <JT-Shop> nope looks good to me
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[21:42:59] <JT-Shop> I've tried about everthing I can think of on the user end with no issues
[21:43:08] <jepler> I appreciate you taking the time to do that.
[21:47:13] <jepler> Operation Tips: 2.Avoid point the beam to eyes.
[21:48:41] <JT-Shop> lol
[21:49:19] <jepler> Quality Assurance policy to assure you buy lasers without care.
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[22:26:09] <jepler> http://jtechphotonics.com/?product=new-2-8w-laser-and-2-5amp-safety-compliant-driver-kit-with-us-style-power-adapter
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[22:26:38] <jepler> these guys look like they might know what they're doing
[22:26:58] <jepler> mounting holes on their heatsinked laser and everything :)
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[23:28:18] <malcom2073_> Lasers: Please don't look into beam with remaining eye
[23:43:55] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05master d1e507b 06linuxcnc 10debian/changelog 10src/Makefile Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/2.7' * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=d1e507b
[23:53:15] <seb_kuzminsky> wow, the SF bug tracker changed, i think it's better now
