Back
[00:17:04] -!- PetefromTn_ [PetefromTn_!~IceChat9@75-136-59-160.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[00:22:23] -!- pandeiro has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[00:22:45] -!- cpresser has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[00:24:09] -!- liedman has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[00:29:48] -!- uwe_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[00:31:26] -!- Loetmichel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[00:46:30] -!- Audioburn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[00:47:30] -!- asdfasd has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[00:48:59] -!- Akex_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
[00:55:18] il is now known as Audioburn
[01:05:50] -!- Audioburn has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[01:05:59] -!- per_sonne_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[01:21:46] -!- il has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[01:50:27] -!- rkj has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[01:52:57] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 052.7 6540f66 06linuxcnc 10docs/src/config/ini-homing.txt ini-homing.txt: show complete ini entries names * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=6540f66
[01:55:37] <seb_kuzminsky> thanks dewey
[01:56:13] <jepler> whee, moving my little laser engraver with the power of linuxcnc
https://goo.gl/photos/WyKHzXsU8sTJbWvUA
[01:58:06] <jepler> (the microcontroller is bypassed by holding its NRESET line low)
[01:58:45] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/ja_configs 85f3e90 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py axis.py no show masked joints (joints_axes) * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=85f3e90
[01:58:45] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/ja_configs 11e047f 06linuxcnc 10configs/sim/axis/lathe.ini axis/lathe.ini add [JOINT_1] stanza (joints_axes) * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=11e047f
[02:00:44] <cradek> wow we all whine about it not working, and dgarr jumps in and starts fixing it
[02:05:13] -!- jerryitt has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
[02:07:50] -!- bjm_ [bjm_!~brianmore@71-13-81-38.static.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[02:08:01] <jepler> yay PWM laser control
[02:08:33] <cradek> sweet!
[02:08:36] <jepler> OK, enough success for one night
[02:08:41] <cradek> me too
[02:08:47] -!- bjm__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[02:13:59] -!- skunksleep has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[02:14:43] -!- skunksleep [skunksleep!~AndChat14@str-broadband-ccmts-ws-26.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[02:15:59] <jepler> hm looks like if you power off the hm2-eth board while linuxcnc is running, rtapi_app is crashing or something
[02:16:05] <jepler> hm2_eth: enqueue_read ERROR: reading packet: recv() -> -1 Resource temporarily unavailable (expected to read 136 bytes)
[02:16:08] <jepler> hm2/hm2_7i92.0: error finishing read! iter=1816059)
[02:16:10] <jepler> hm2_eth: enqueue_read ERROR: reading packet: recv() -> -1 Resource temporarily unavailable (expected to read 204 bytes)
[02:16:13] <jepler> you get a few of these, with the "expected to read" increasing each time
[02:16:22] <jepler> and then nothing, which I think means rtapi_app has crashed
[02:19:20] <jepler> yep
[02:19:22] <jepler> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[02:19:22] <jepler> [Switching to Thread 0x7f5c2cfaa700 (LWP 28341)]
[02:19:22] <jepler> hm2_eth_receive_queued_reads (this=0x7f5c2b5d2a40 <boards>)
[02:19:22] <jepler> at hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.c:486
[02:19:24] <jepler> 486 t1 = rtapi_get_time();
[02:19:44] <jepler> 484 rtapi_u8 tmp_buffer[board->queue_buff_size];
[02:19:48] <jepler> (gdb) p board->queue_buff_size
[02:19:49] <jepler> $1 = 1979728573
[02:19:54] <jepler> something's gone wrong by this point...
[02:19:56] <jepler> will debug
[02:21:19] <jepler> another thing that is inconvenient: I want the stepgens on 7i92 "p1", which has the higher numbered stepgens on it
[02:21:48] <jepler> .. so to get the two stepgens I want, I have to have num_stepgens=7
[02:22:38] <jepler> maybe I should be able to say: stepgen_mask=0x60 to get just the two I want
[02:23:31] <micges> that would be cool but it's a big change
[02:25:05] <jepler> I believe you
[02:35:40] <jepler> > The estimated Volkswagen pollution, about 46,000 tons since late 2008 [...] could be expected to cause an estimated 106 deaths[. Another] method brought the effects to about 40 additional deaths over the period[.]
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/29/upshot/how-many-deaths-did-volkswagens-deception-cause-in-us.html
[02:36:59] <cradek> doubt there'll be a judge to tell it to
[02:37:29] <cradek> it's not like he was a real criminal, having weed or something
[02:39:07] <mozmck> my method puts it at -500 because of people getting to the hospital in time :)
[02:46:40] -!- Roguish has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[03:01:05] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[03:01:24] <skunksleep> Dad says z axis is clunking at the rapid in to the hole of g83 but not the rapid out
[03:05:43] -!- AR_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[03:05:46] -!- amiri has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[03:05:58] <skunksleep> He is going to lower the acceleration and see if it helps
[03:06:40] <Tom_itx> i had to lower the limits on z on my sherline
[03:06:50] <Tom_itx> with the new tp
[03:07:00] -!- per_sonne_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[03:07:21] <skunksleep> (He is drilling 7000 .050" holes in 1/4 aluminum.
[03:07:49] <cradek> 7000!
[03:07:55] <Tom_itx> swiss cheese
[03:08:22] <skunksleep> Z always had a bit of backlash... Around 2 tenths
[03:08:58] <cradek> for 7000 holes it'd be worth the trouble to figure out what pecks are really needed
[03:09:07] -!- rootB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[03:09:09] <skunksleep> It is a vacuum table
[03:09:18] <cradek> bet the first peck can be deeper
[03:09:25] <skunksleep> Sure
[03:10:35] <skunksleep> Initially he is doing 5 or 6 a minute
[03:11:25] <skunksleep> No
[03:12:46] <skunksleep> (No was a slip of the finger)
[03:23:53] -!- sumpfralle1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[03:46:31] -!- HSD has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[03:48:39] -!- furrywolf has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[03:52:02] -!- PetefromTn_ has quit [Quit: I'm Outta here!!]
[04:07:36] -!- ink- has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[04:08:23] -!- tumdedum has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[04:19:00] -!- Audioburn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[04:22:41] -!- anomynous_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[04:29:12] -!- patrickarlt has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[04:50:59] -!- anth0ny_ has quit [Quit: anth0ny_]
[05:07:39] -!- per_sonne_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[05:09:26] -!- ve7it has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[05:28:42] -!- sudheer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[05:39:47] -!- patrickarlt has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[05:54:31] -!- kwallace [kwallace!~kwallace@142.147.85.210] has parted #linuxcnc-devel
[06:17:42] -!- Computer_barf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[06:24:05] -!- skunksleep has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[06:28:27] -!- patrickarlt has quit [Client Quit]
[06:37:57] -!- capricorn_1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[06:48:09] -!- tinkerer [tinkerer!~tinkerer@mail.play-pla.net] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[06:52:23] -!- KimK_laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[06:55:27] -!- zeeshan|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[07:04:00] -!- t0shnip has quit [Changing host]
[07:05:27] -!- KimK_laptop [KimK_laptop!~Kim@wsip-70-186-238-216.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[07:05:54] -!- rob_h [rob_h!~robh@2.124.66.150] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[07:08:39] -!- per_sonne_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[07:13:10] -!- KimK_laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[07:46:14] -!- skunksleep [skunksleep!~AndChat14@str-broadband-ccmts-ws-26.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[07:59:06] -!- b_b has quit [Changing host]
[08:57:38] -!- nofxx has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[09:00:58] -!- aventtini3 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[09:09:26] -!- per_sonne_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[09:19:59] -!- aventtini3 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[09:36:09] -!- Miner_48er has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[09:49:17] -!- DaPeace has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[09:51:53] -!- MattyMatt has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[10:17:26] -!- _abc_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[10:25:19] -!- per_sonne_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[10:35:38] -!- skunksleep has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[10:41:37] -!- radish has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[10:43:13] Yo is now known as Guest79751
[10:43:33] Guest79751 is now known as Yopla
[10:48:59] -!- Akex_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
[10:52:26] -!- nickoe has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[11:02:33] -!- skunkworks has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[11:26:28] -!- skunksleep [skunksleep!~AndChat14@str-broadband-ccmts-ws-26.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[11:26:40] -!- skunkworks [skunkworks!~skunkwork@68-115-41-210.static.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[11:29:12] -!- b_b has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[11:35:20] -!- radish has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[11:47:54] -!- _abc_ has quit [Quit: later]
[12:18:00] <jepler> www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/business/dealbook/dell-is-said-to-be-in-talks-to-acquire-emc.html
[12:18:05] <jepler> boy I'm glad I know they don't mean us :-P
[12:25:12] <skunkworks> good thing we changed our name...
[12:30:02] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-personal-cnc-mill/278462-tormach-21.html#post1771976
[12:31:29] -!- kingarmadillo has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
[12:35:51] -!- jst has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
[12:45:35] <jepler> sigh
[12:46:31] <jepler> I am getting less and less excited about ensuring that liblinuxcncui can be used in non-Free software.
[12:46:39] <jepler> I would rather ensure that the UI has to be GPL
[12:53:38] <skunkworks> I bet
[12:58:32] <skunkworks> Well - I think I found the phone that will last me a few years. (until I drop it) gallaxy s5. Rooted and cleaned.
[12:59:10] <skunkworks> decent picutures and fast enough.
[12:59:25] <ssi> gpl can be a hassle that way :/
[13:17:19] -!- sumpfralle has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[13:26:12] <cradek> jepler: allowing easy mixing with nonfree software is absolutely not a goal of mine
[13:26:24] <cradek> jepler: (not that I've done any of the lui work)
[13:28:46] <malcom2073> Heh, Umbutu (Ubuntu) and Deneil (Debian)
[13:31:43] -!- ivansanchez has quit []
[13:37:42] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: i think it was i that originally argued for lgpl for lui, but i no longer feel strongly for that
[13:40:06] -!- ktchk [ktchk!~eddie6929@n219079251138.netvigator.com] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[13:49:34] -!- ktchk has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[13:56:53] -!- Valen has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[14:00:19] anth0ny_ is now known as anth0ny
[14:06:33] -!- ktchk [ktchk!~eddie6929@n219079251138.netvigator.com] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[14:13:27] <pcw_home> " I want the stepgens on 7i92 "p1"
[14:13:28] <pcw_home> There are often xxxxR.bit firmware images that swap the connectors
[14:15:16] <pcw_home> ISTR the idea of having bit masks was discussed when hm2 was first written but
[14:15:17] <pcw_home> discarded as too complex for the user
[14:15:48] <pcw_home> maybe stepgens= "1,3,6"
[14:16:24] <jepler> that would probably be better for a user
[14:22:44] <jepler> hm, I started investigating "Jullian"'s question about arc normals because having z=<1 mm in inches> seemed wrong
[14:23:14] <jepler> but the print I added in taskintf.cc:emcTrajCircularMove shows the normal as always zero
[14:23:34] -!- anth0ny has quit [Quit: anth0ny]
[14:24:48] <cradek> circularMoveMsg.normal = to_ext_len(normal_cart);
[14:26:13] <jepler> normal = 0.000000 0.000000 1.000000
[14:26:13] <jepler> normal = 0.000000 1.000000 0.000000
[14:26:13] <jepler> normal = 1.000000 0.000000 0.000000
[14:26:28] <cradek> I wonder how he was printing the debug output
[14:26:50] <jepler> too bad the e-mail doesn't say
[14:26:51] <cradek> I wonder if he saw a bug and that led him here
[14:26:59] <jepler> too bad the e-mail doesn't say
[14:27:27] <jepler> so yes it's nonzero for me in ARC_FEED
[14:27:51] <jepler> but zero by the time it gets to emcTrajCircularMove!
[14:27:57] <cradek> Issuing EMC_TRAJ_CIRCULAR_MOVE -- ( +221,+184, +0,0.000000,1.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.039370, +0, +3,1.650000,5.000000,50.000000, +0,)
[14:29:11] <cradek> I agree this is surprising
[14:29:56] <jepler> oh %.1f
[14:30:01] <jepler> .039 of course prints as 0.0
[14:30:05] <jepler> nevermind
[14:30:17] <jepler> 1275 fprintf(stderr, "normal = %.1f %.1f %.1f\n", normal.x, normal.y, normal.z);
[14:30:20] <jepler> that's the line I had added
[14:31:53] <cradek> basic testing of arc planes looks right to me
[14:34:29] <jepler> I ran 3dtest with a rotation in my coordinate system and I down at emcTrajCircularMove I saw non-axis-aligned normal vectors
[14:34:33] <jepler> normal = 0.000 0.000 0.039
[14:34:33] <jepler> normal = -0.021 0.033 0.000
[14:34:33] <jepler> normal = 0.033 0.021 0.000
[14:34:38] <jepler> so, yeah, seems like it is OK
[14:34:42] <seb_kuzminsky> yay
[14:34:49] <jepler> except that the silly conversion from mm to in should be fixed
[14:38:27] -!- Roguish [Roguish!~chatzilla@c-50-143-183-159.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[14:38:59] -!- Akex_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
[14:43:26] -!- JT-Shop2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[14:43:30] -!- JT-Shop has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[14:59:42] -!- JT-Shop [JT-Shop!~john@184.63.188.69] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[15:03:18] -!- kwallace [kwallace!~kwallace@142.147.85.210] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[15:20:08] -!- sheppard has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[15:20:24] <cradek> fwiw, 2.6 prints the vector as 0,0,1
[15:21:10] <cradek> [2.6] circularMoveMsg.normal = normal;
[15:26:55] <cradek> - circularMoveMsg.normal = normal;
[15:27:00] <cradek> + circularMoveMsg.normal = to_ext_len(normal_cart);
[15:27:08] <cradek> "Bulk overhaul of emccanon"
[15:28:25] <seb_kuzminsky> heh, that's the commit that introduced that ABCUVW arc bug i recently fixed, too
[15:29:02] <seb_kuzminsky> we should add a pre-receive hook that rejects any commit message containing "bulk" or "overhaul", that'll fix the problem for sure
[15:29:38] <cradek> well I have feels about refactoring, but all we can really do is clean up the new bugs afterward
[15:31:30] <cradek> after you're done with that step, it's true that the code often looks better
[15:34:03] <cradek> the only/ultimate self defense is better test coverage
[15:34:18] <seb_kuzminsky> and it may be more maintainable, as a result of being easier to read. i think there's a place for refactoring in code maintenance.
[15:34:27] <archivist> it is the syndrome that you cannot see a bug until you refactor, accidently adding a few more while you do it
[15:34:50] <seb_kuzminsky> and i agree test coverage is important when refactoring :-)
[15:34:52] <cradek> I really wonder why our tests didn't notice this particular one
[15:35:34] <cradek> ... because sai doesn't print the normal vector
[15:35:37] <seb_kuzminsky> does the length of the normal matter? isn't it just the direction that's important?
[15:35:54] <cradek> N..... ARC_FEED(99.7764, 97.8882, 100.0000, 98.0000, -1, 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000)
[15:36:22] <seb_kuzminsky> sai also doesn't print UVW, which would have caught the previous bug in that commit
[15:36:47] <cradek> it could conceivably matter if it's not unitized (and used for something like dot product). in our actual code I think it probably gets unitized enough times that it doesn't matter.
[15:36:58] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[15:37:13] -!- capricorn_1 has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[15:37:46] <seb_kuzminsky> if we had that dot product bug, we'd probably still not know about it because we dont have test coverage of motion's output (except for skunkworks)
[15:38:10] <cradek> that is true
[15:38:41] <seb_kuzminsky> somewhere i have some commits that change SAI to exclude fewer things frmo its output
[15:38:42] <cradek> I did a test of g0 x0 y0 z0; g3 r1 x1 y1 z1 in the different planes and verified that they give different helixes
[15:39:22] <cradek> we would probably not have noticed the wrong helixes
[15:40:01] <skunkworks> so is there a bug?
[15:40:08] * skunkworks head is spinning
[15:40:10] <cradek> only a cosmetic one
[15:40:15] <skunkworks> ah
[15:40:30] <cradek> we think
[15:40:32] <skunkworks> heh
[15:42:18] <cradek> it would be fun to make sai print those extra things, then update the tests in 2.6 accordingly, and then see what it catches (other than these two things)
[15:44:05] <cradek> if the tests pass currently in 2.6, and I add sai output and change nothing else, is it the case that I'm justified in automatically calling the new test output correct?
[15:44:37] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: wait did you say you've already done the sai work?
[15:46:09] <Roguish> seb_kuzminsky: a normal, in math, is a vector, of unit length. a single unit of whatever one is working in. microns, or lightyears.
[15:46:28] <cradek> Roguish: we all totally know that :-)
[15:46:35] <Roguish> sorry.
[15:46:52] <Roguish> back to work.
[15:46:54] <cradek> heh, it's ok
[15:47:10] <Roguish> i mean i'll go back to work......
[15:47:17] <seb_kuzminsky> heh me too
[15:47:46] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: i updated sai as part of chasing #439, but then i chickened out and rebased those commits out
[15:47:53] <cradek> aww
[15:47:57] * seb_kuzminsky looks under the couch
[15:48:28] <seb_kuzminsky> iirc there were more than a few things that had to change to support it
[15:48:34] <seb_kuzminsky> sai doesn't track UVW at all
[15:48:51] -!- dan2k3k4 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[15:49:26] <cradek> is something hard about it, or is it just more new code than you'd prefer?
[15:49:41] <seb_kuzminsky> nothing hard, just a lot of changes
[15:49:49] <seb_kuzminsky> and matching updates to each test that's affected
[15:49:53] <cradek> yeah
[15:50:01] <cradek> that's why I was wondering aloud about that process
[15:50:04] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah
[15:50:16] <seb_kuzminsky> it's probably an ok change for a stable branch, since it's not user-facing at all
[15:50:17] <cradek> I think you could just accept the new results
[15:51:03] <cradek> yeah, I agree, probably ok
[15:51:22] <cradek> (although I'd also accept a no as justified)
[15:52:08] <cradek> but I'd do the same process in that case - doing it in a branch off of 2.6 and then merging that into 2.7
[15:53:01] <seb_kuzminsky> so you could see the results in 2.6 without actually having the change in 2.6?
[15:53:19] <cradek> yeah
[15:54:04] <seb_kuzminsky> if it reveals any actual bugs in 2.6, they should be fixed, and you'd probably want the sai changes in 2.6 too, to verify the fix
[15:54:26] <seb_kuzminsky> erhm, while we're talking about changing the format of sai's output, i propose this:
[15:54:36] <seb_kuzminsky> - N..... ARC_FEED(1.2000, 2.0000, 1.0000, 2.0000, 1, 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000)
[15:54:39] <seb_kuzminsky> + N..... ARC_FEED(1.2000, 2.0000, 1.0000, 2.0000, rot=1, 0.0000, A=0.0000, B=0.0000, C=0.0000, U=0.0000, V=0.0000, W=0.0000)
[15:54:55] <seb_kuzminsky> (ie, adding argument names, so the values are easier to scan with your eyeball)
[15:54:58] -!- ktchk has quit [Quit: ktchk]
[15:55:08] <cradek> what are the first four?
[15:55:17] <cradek> I mean did you leave them unmarked on purpose?
[15:55:17] <seb_kuzminsky> start point and centerpoint of the arc
[15:55:27] <seb_kuzminsky> the axes are not know in Canon
[15:55:33] <cradek> endpoint I bet
[15:55:56] <cradek> oh right, they come in various orders don't they
[15:55:58] <cradek> bleh
[15:55:59] <seb_kuzminsky> err, yeah
[15:56:07] * cradek shivers
[15:56:27] <seb_kuzminsky> and argument 6 is the endpoint of the 'axis' of the arc
[15:57:00] <seb_kuzminsky> sai could keep track of the g17/g18/g19 mode (maybe it does already) and annotate the arc correctly
[15:57:11] <cradek> so assuming g17 it's endx endy centerx centery rot endz enda endb ...
[15:57:19] <seb_kuzminsky> yes, it tracks the active plane
[15:57:24] * seb_kuzminsky switches back to vim
[15:57:56] <cradek> we're deciding sai's output is for humans to read/understand/manipulate?
[15:58:09] -!- moorbo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[15:58:29] <cradek> I think in the case of tests that's correct. does sai have other uses we'd be disturbing?
[15:58:50] <cradek> (I sure don't use it for anything else)
[15:58:54] <seb_kuzminsky> not in-tree, as far as i know
[15:59:05] <seb_kuzminsky> sigh
[15:59:08] <cradek> then I like your change
[15:59:39] <seb_kuzminsky> i think we should take the concervative approach and treat sai's output as one of our public interfaces, and not change it in 2.6 or 2.7 :-(
[16:00:19] <cradek> hmm
[16:00:59] <cradek> I won't argue with you
[16:01:41] <cradek> I think it'd still be very nice to see the new results of 2.6 against 2.7, even if it doesn't go in those branches
[16:02:21] <cradek> or week-ago 2.7 to see if it catches that regression too
[16:05:10] <Roguish> hey, you programmer guys. is there an 'development environment' thing for python in Linux (debian)
[16:06:28] <cradek> in linux, usually languages don't each come with their own editor/environment, so you can find various solutions according to your goals. I think the clearest answer to your question is no
[16:06:32] Loetmichel2 is now known as Loetmichel
[16:07:07] <jepler> https://wiki.debian.org/ProgrammingApplication
[16:07:12] <cradek> there are environments of the type I think you're asking about; I think eclipse is a popular one, emacs has some integration between languages and debuggers etc, probably there are many more
[16:07:23] <Roguish> ok, thanks. which 'editor' do you use?
[16:07:27] -!- Yopla has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[16:07:51] <skunkworks> heh - don't start!
[16:07:53] <cradek> I use more than one choice, depending on my task and feelings
[16:07:58] <cradek> but that shouldn't matter to you
[16:08:11] <cradek> yeah skunkworks has seen this kind of discussion before :-)
[16:08:12] <seb_kuzminsky> i feel strongly that cradek's choice is wrong
[16:08:19] <cradek> oh you
[16:08:39] <archivist> use your favourite that does not mangle line endings or character sets
[16:08:41] <cradek> that wiki page looks useful
[16:08:48] * skunkworks incerts relevent xkcd comic
[16:08:56] <Roguish> alright, didn't mean to start anything. i signed up for a python class through Udemy.
[16:09:04] <cradek> cool
[16:09:37] <archivist> editor discussions always start a fire :)
[16:09:43] <Roguish> not to be a programmer, but to at least understand a bit, and not be an idiot.
[16:09:47] <cradek> you didn't start anything :-)
[16:10:00] <cradek> archivist: only among people who haven't been around the block a few times
[16:10:03] <Roguish> in windows, I favor Notepad++
[16:11:00] <Roguish> got a friend that still uses edlin
[16:11:04] <archivist> I used syn when I last used windows seriously
[16:11:33] <cradek> amazingly, I guess I haven't ever programmed on windows
[16:11:47] <cradek> not more than trivially anyway
[16:12:09] <jepler> if you're going to contribute to LinuxCNC the main requirement for a text editor are: * can edit a file without making whitespace changes that are not specifically requested * can make indentation "like surrounding code", which unfortunately is not today consistent in all files
[16:12:40] <jepler> many fancy programmers' editors fail on one or both of these requirements
[16:12:59] <cradek> ... shockingly
[16:14:43] <Roguish> how's gedit do with those reqs?
[16:15:05] <cradek> I'm not sure
[16:15:43] <cradek> I suspect it doesn't do auto-indentation at all
[16:32:10] -!- asdfasd has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[16:36:05] -!- Pudlo has quit [Client Quit]
[16:45:06] -!- JT-Shop has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[16:50:55] -!- JT-Shop [JT-Shop!~john@184.63.188.69] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[16:56:48] <mozmck> eclipse actually does really well.
[16:57:03] <mozmck> I think kate does well also.
[16:57:42] <cradek> I think both of those fail at requirement #1 until you carefully configure them - so be careful if you're starting fresh
[16:58:19] <cradek> (my information might be old)
[16:58:50] <ssi> vim handles it pretty well :P
[16:59:27] -!- micges has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[17:00:14] <cradek> heh in [day job]'s wiki there are eclipse instructions 24 steps long to configure things like don't mangle the whitespace
[17:00:51] <ssi> in the golang world the best practice is to use gofmt as a precommit hook so everything goes into the repo in exactly the right format and style
[17:02:04] <jepler> to me that's horrifying, but maybe the formatter for go is 1000x better than the formatters I have used for C++
[17:02:15] <cradek> I'm with this one
[17:02:16] <ssi> it's quite good
[17:02:23] <ssi> go has a pretty opinionated style
[17:02:32] <ssi> for instance, brace on next line is a syntax error
[17:02:38] <jepler> it would also help if it had *always* been the practice in a project
[17:02:45] <ssi> which is either awesome or horrible depending on your bias :)
[17:03:47] <jepler> because otherwise to adopt automatic formatting you have to have a flag day where you turn every pre-formatting branch into a mess of time-consuming merge conflicts
[17:05:02] <ssi> but yea I know what you mean, there's nothing more infuriating than doing a pull and having every file in the repo suddenly grow a bunch of ^M's
[17:05:10] <cradek> yargh kill kill
[17:05:35] <cradek> no jury of my peers would convict me
[17:05:41] <ssi> hahaha not if they were true peers :)
[17:05:56] <mozmck> In eclipse you go to Window->Preferences, and in the dialog go to C/C++->Editor->Save Actions and un-check "Remove trailing whitespace" if it is checked.
[17:06:16] <mozmck> I think that's all I had to do from the default setup.
[17:06:20] <jepler> I think you may not know what "peer" means in a legal context. :-P but it's funny to say it
[17:06:46] -!- amiri has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[17:11:35] <mozmck> reading the Go docs: Why do people not like type systems? I find not having them to be a real pain.
[17:11:51] <ssi> mozmck: ? go has a type system
[17:12:11] <mozmck> https://golang.org/doc/faq#What_is_the_purpose_of_the_project
[17:12:21] <mozmck> under What is the purpose of the project?
[17:12:30] <jepler> > There is a growing rebellion against cumbersome type systems like those of Java and C++, pushing people towards dynamically typed languages such as Python and JavaScript.
[17:12:40] <jepler> C++ is the definition of a cumbersome type system
[17:12:43] <ssi> yea but that doesn't mean go doesn't have a type system
[17:12:46] <mozmck> I've used basic, and now Python, and I *really* like type systems.
[17:12:57] <ssi> I think what they're getting at is that it's a static/strong type system that's not as cumbersome as c++ or java
[17:12:59] <jepler> but you can't say Python doesn't have a type system
[17:12:59] <mozmck> as well as lua and others.
[17:13:11] <jepler> it doesn't require you to ever declare a type, but that's different than not having a type system
[17:13:18] <ssi> python has a type system, but it's dynamic
[17:13:20] <seb_kuzminsky> stronger typing would help us avoid bugs like the "convert program coordinates to canon coordinates multiple times by accident" one
[17:13:39] <ssi> go's type system is pure strong/static
[17:13:47] <jepler> even languages where 1 + "1" + [1] is well-formed and has a defined result have type systems
[17:13:48] <ssi> but it doesn't have inheritance
[17:13:48] <mozmck> re python, true, because it gripes if you do something wrong.
[17:13:51] <jepler> .. just bad ones
[17:14:10] <mozmck> But that's where I like the static type system - you know what type it's supposed to be to start with.
[17:14:18] <ssi> jepler: I'm fairly sure when mozmck says "type systems", he means "strong/static type systems"
[17:14:28] <mozmck> I think so - yes
[17:14:55] <ssi> php has a type system
[17:15:03] <ssi> just nobody has figured out deterministically how it behaves in all cases
[17:15:43] <mozmck> modern C++ has some really nice features, including "auto" which can I guess act as a weak type?
[17:21:04] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: i just realized, sai can't find bug #439 because it was in Canon, not Interp
[17:21:20] <seb_kuzminsky> interp passed reasonable things to ARC_FEED(), and ARC_FEED() passed wrong things to Motion
[17:21:53] * seb_kuzminsky throws out his branch again
[17:22:16] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[17:22:51] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[17:26:12] -!- lair82 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[17:32:30] -!- lair82_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[17:41:08] -!- dan2k3k4 has quit [Client Quit]
[17:43:54] <skunkworks> interesting..
http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/27-driver-boards/29742-pidicnc-control-system
[17:44:08] <skunkworks> Pi 2 with spi
[17:44:43] <skunkworks> ugh - does video suck on the rpi2 also? (they show axis running and it is pretty choppy)
[17:44:52] -!- aventtini6 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[17:46:06] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: neat!
[17:55:32] <PCW> Is it using the RPI2 video? its machinekit so it might be remote on a PC/whatever
[18:07:40] -!- patrickarlt has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[18:08:12] <jepler> skunkworks: yes, opengl as AXIS uses it is not accelerated on rpi
[18:09:43] <cradek> seb_kuzminsky: yuck, you're right
[18:13:46] <jepler> anyway, Python has accepted a proposal for those who want to write specifications about types in their Python code.
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2015-May/140104.html
[18:13:50] <jepler> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/
[18:14:02] <jepler> > For example, here is a simple function whose argument and return type are declared in the annotations:
[18:14:06] <jepler> def greeting(name: str) -> str:
[18:14:08] <jepler> return 'Hello ' + name
[18:15:14] <jepler> and actually on closer reading, that is already a valid program in Python 3.2.
[18:31:14] -!- micges [micges!~micges@deg64.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[18:34:55] -!- Connor has quit [Read error: No route to host]
[18:38:07] -!- lair82 has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[18:45:13] -!- jerryitt has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
[18:47:28] -!- Connor [Connor!~Connor@c-67-187-108-117.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[18:50:51] -!- Komzpa has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[18:52:22] -!- micges_ [micges_!~micges@ewt32.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[18:52:43] -!- per_sonne_ has quit [Quit: Be back later ...]
[18:55:02] -!- micges has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[19:11:51] -!- norias has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[19:15:21] -!- skunkworks has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[19:29:21] -!- furrywolf has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[19:30:45] -!- dan2k3k4 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[19:32:03] -!- lair82 has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[19:33:20] -!- KimK_laptop [KimK_laptop!~Kim@wsip-70-186-238-216.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[19:38:27] -!- RoyBellingan has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
[19:45:40] -!- micges_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[19:46:55] -!- skunkworks [skunkworks!~skunkwork@68-115-41-210.static.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[19:48:40] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: so i think we need to write a mock motion program that logs incoming emcmot commands, and use that for testing the task/inter/canon jumble
[19:52:12] -!- micges [micges!~micges@dbf27.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[19:54:49] <cradek> didn't you do that or at least start it once already?
[19:54:58] <cradek> or was that the opposite thing
[19:58:10] -!- per_sonne_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[20:00:16] -!- chris_99 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[20:02:39] -!- skunkworks has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[20:06:50] -!- Pudlo has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[20:11:10] -!- micges has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[20:14:29] <seb_kuzminsky> i started the opposite thing - a program encapsulating motion's behavior, that would run as a regular process, take emcmot input commands (and hal pin pokings), and write the joint coordinate waypoints to a file, to test motion's behavior
[20:14:45] <seb_kuzminsky> ... i still have it, unfinished, somewhere
[20:17:25] -!- Pudlo has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[20:25:55] -!- moorbo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[20:27:13] -!- skunkworks [skunkworks!~chatzilla@str-broadband-ccmts-ws-26.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[20:49:00] <jepler> 7i92 has 4.7k pull-ups to 5V. EasyDriver has 10k pull down on /ENABLE (active low). So with both pulls active, it gets about 3.4v.7i92 outputs have a 4.7k pull-up. The stepper driver has a 10k pull-down on active-low ENABLE. That gives ~3.4V which is in the undefined voltage range. (<.3*VCC for low, >.7*VCC for high, VCC is nominal 5V)
[20:49:51] <jepler> so I guess I actually need to strengthen the pull up to get motor amplifiers off when linuxcnc is not running
[20:51:38] <PCW> If off is low you need to strengthen the pulldown
[20:52:38] <jepler> off is high
[20:53:17] <jepler> and there's a pull-down (to enable by default) because this is a board for CNC glue gun types
[20:53:38] <jepler> I guess I could remove the pull down instead
[20:55:03] <jepler> I'm less sure what to do about the laser, which is driven by a NPN darlington (ULN200x). the 1mA from a 4.7k pull-up is enough to turn the laser on real good..
[20:55:56] -!- PetefromTn_ [PetefromTn_!~IceChat9@75-136-59-160.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[20:56:17] <PCW> you can make the outputs pulldown with some work
[20:56:58] <PCW> ( remove W1 and connect middle pin to ground )
[20:57:07] -!- chillly has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
[20:57:23] <PCW> or put a 500 ohm pulldown on the laser pin
[20:57:30] <jepler> I wondered about that but then I read that "W1 controls the 5V I/O tolerance option"
[20:58:40] <PCW> Yeah that would make it 3.3V only
[20:59:28] <jepler> I think I'll see what happens if I add a strong pull-down
[21:01:55] <jepler> I'd rather not configure it for "easier to toast, particularly if I put it back in a junk box set that way"
[21:10:01] -!- Deejay has quit [Quit: bye]
[21:17:10] -!- micges [micges!~micges@dbf27.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[21:21:33] -!- micges has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[21:25:53] -!- micges [micges!~micges@dar242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[21:28:03] -!- KimK_laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[21:34:19] -!- aventtini6 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[21:41:13] -!- KimK_laptop [KimK_laptop!~Kim@wsip-70-186-238-216.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[21:45:04] Audioburn is now known as il
[21:58:35] -!- moorbo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[21:58:42] -!- Pudlo has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[21:58:45] -!- per_sonne_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[22:01:51] -!- justanotheruser has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[22:05:14] -!- Valen has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[22:17:30] -!- MacGalempsy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[22:20:27] -!- SpeedEvil has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[22:23:56] -!- moorbo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[22:44:32] -!- chris_99 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[22:55:21] <jepler> I think you get the idea what's going on here...
https://goo.gl/photos/GkUVSPne7huVvVUC8
[23:00:29] AndroUser is now known as JT-Deck
[23:04:03] <skunkworks> umm...
[23:10:27] -!- gonzo_nb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[23:10:36] <seb_kuzminsky> ooh shiny
[23:11:03] <seb_kuzminsky> no glasses & endmill?
[23:22:45] -!- JT-Deck has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )]
[23:30:16] -!- tinkerer has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[23:30:25] -!- ve7it [ve7it!~LawrenceG@S01060014d19d0b68.pk.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc-devel
[23:32:18] -!- Demiurge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[23:32:25] -!- grummund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[23:34:10] Sairon is now known as norias
[23:34:13] -!- Pudlo has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
[23:36:38] -!- Pudlo has quit [Client Quit]
[23:37:49] -!- rob_h has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[23:59:48] -!- per_sonne_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]