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[03:01:27] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05seb/2.7/task-latency-reporting 1fb7ca9 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc task: more latency reporting * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=1fb7ca9
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[03:24:45] <seb_kuzminsky> i think (at least part of) the secret to fixing Task's latency is to revert 724f26975a2
[03:25:05] <seb_kuzminsky> or, you know, do something similar in a different way
[03:26:34] <cradek> when in doubt, be smarter the second time?
[03:30:55] <seb_kuzminsky> http://try.redis.io/
[03:32:12] <cradek> do you mean use a database instead of the var file?
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[03:33:56] <cradek> I must not understand what problem you're working on solving
[03:35:38] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, that's the thought
[03:36:23] <cradek> I agree (from earlier) it should obviously be write then mv, not mv then write
[03:37:09] <seb_kuzminsky> i think it needs to be cp (to make the backup) then write, then rename
[03:37:16] <seb_kuzminsky> (if we still think the backup is useful)
[03:37:18] <seb_kuzminsky> but!
[03:37:24] <cradek> I don't think it's ever bitten anyone, unlike the remap bug that's on my mind
[03:37:39] <cradek> doubt the backup is ever useful
[03:37:50] <seb_kuzminsky> maybe it made sense to write your own key-value ipc/storage mechanism in what 1990 or whatever, but in 2015 it's looking increasingly silly
[03:38:02] <cradek> with one backup the change you wanted would be nuked anyway
[03:38:43] <cradek> how about if it's simple, has been working for 25 years, is documented, and causes no dependencies?
[03:38:54] <seb_kuzminsky> the value of the backup (i guess) is if task crashes while writing the new file? then you could manually go fix things (if you were paying attention)
[03:38:59] <seb_kuzminsky> (which i most likely would not be)
[03:39:10] <cradek> yeah I wouldn't either
[03:39:11] <seb_kuzminsky> * and broken
[03:39:43] <seb_kuzminsky> not that task crashes very often
[03:39:44] <cradek> sorry, what's broken?
[03:39:49] <seb_kuzminsky> i dont think i've ever seen it crash
[03:40:21] <seb_kuzminsky> oh, the broken part is task writes the file often, in a way that doesnt let the readers know if they're reading a partial or a complete file
[03:40:53] <seb_kuzminsky> oh, and task takes 2+ seconds to do so, sometimes
[03:41:12] <seb_kuzminsky> during which time software estop and stuff stops working temporarily
[03:41:36] <cradek> wouldn't any solution cause file IO, which has the same problem?
[03:41:49] <cradek> or would it be multithreaded or something
[03:41:51] <seb_kuzminsky> having another thread do the file io asynchronously would fix the second problem
[03:42:11] <seb_kuzminsky> with some external db, another thread does the io
[03:42:12] <cradek> while making the first problem worse
[03:42:18] <cradek> ?
[03:42:29] <cradek> (I don't know anything about this stuff)
[03:42:58] <seb_kuzminsky> it's true that you can't do atomic updates of complex data types in redis
[03:43:03] <seb_kuzminsky> so the first problem remains
[03:43:12] <seb_kuzminsky> the second problem (task pauses for seconds) goes away
[03:43:14] <cradek> I can't debug task (remap) as-is and having more asynchronous threads doesn't feel like it would help
[03:43:37] <seb_kuzminsky> hmm, yeah, i see your point
[03:43:38] <cradek> maybe that's just got me down, it's not you
[03:43:48] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[03:44:35] <seb_kuzminsky> i think threads with lots of shared state are hard to debug, but threads with clean interfaces (like external nosql dbs have these days) are pretty straight forward
[03:45:07] <seb_kuzminsky> i dont know much about them, except we use redis for our product at work and the unix geeks who work with it like it
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[03:54:33] <seb_kuzminsky> oop, wait, redis supports transactions, so it can fix problem 1 as well as problem 2:
http://redis.io/topics/transactions
[04:06:01] <seb_kuzminsky> redis is tiny, the server is < 500 kB installed, the C library is 96 kB
[04:06:22] <seb_kuzminsky> there's a C and a python library for clients (and some other languages that i dont care about)
[04:13:23] <seb_kuzminsky> task: 2703 cycles, min=0.000022, max=5.355035, avg=0.005549
[04:13:24] <seb_kuzminsky> halui: emcCommandSend: no echo from Task after 1.000 seconds
[04:15:52] <seb_kuzminsky> sometimes task is "eager" and doesn't sleep, thus the shorter-than 0.001 sec cycles
[04:16:47] <cradek> wonder what the standard deviation is
[04:17:26] <seb_kuzminsky> not sure
[04:17:29] <cradek> I guess what I really wonder is how many long ones there are
[04:17:42] <seb_kuzminsky> the new version of my branch tells you!
[04:17:45] <seb_kuzminsky> hold on!
[04:18:15] <seb_kuzminsky> task: 2163 cycles, min=0.000017, max=0.040818, avg=0.002104, 1030 latency excursions
[04:18:50] <seb_kuzminsky> so 1030/2163 cycles took longer than 2X the [TASK]CYCLE_TIME
[04:19:45] <seb_kuzminsky> and the average is just greater than 2x the CYCLE_TIME...
[04:20:09] <seb_kuzminsky> note to self: task is not realtime
[04:20:49] <seb_kuzminsky> in related news, i pitched a new project to my dayjob, that they should let me work on realtime linux kernels
[04:21:06] <seb_kuzminsky> i dont think they'll accept my offer
[04:21:08] <cradek> yeah if you ask for .001 and you routinely do file io, nope nope
[04:21:18] <cradek> whoah
[04:21:22] <cradek> that would be nice...
[04:21:29] <cradek> but aren't you a bsd shop?
[04:23:12] * seb_kuzminsky didges the question
[04:23:31] <seb_kuzminsky> i just ran the redis-benchmark program, on a vm running halui/mdi in a tight loop
[04:23:35] <cradek> 'sokay
[04:24:00] <seb_kuzminsky> it can do 20k "set that key to this value" operations per second
[04:24:13] <seb_kuzminsky> and same number of gets
[04:24:33] <seb_kuzminsky> that's... 50 us per parameter
[04:25:07] <seb_kuzminsky> so maybe we'd have to be smart and only save the ones that are changed
[04:26:22] <seb_kuzminsky> although if we save, say, 119 params (typical number for us), that's 6 ms, not great but better than the tens of ms we get when we call rename()
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[04:36:45] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05seb/2.7/task-latency-reporting ee8b81b 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc task: better latency warnings * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=ee8b81b
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[05:17:23] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05seb/2.7/task-latency-reporting 9498c2e 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc task: warn if the main loop takes too long * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=9498c2e
[05:17:23] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05seb/2.7/task-latency-reporting 1282dfa 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc 10src/emc/usr_intf/keystick.cc 10src/emc/usr_intf/xemc.cc UIs: increase task receive timeout to 5.0 seconds * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=1282dfa
[05:17:50] <seb_kuzminsky> i'd appreciate feedback on the seb/2.7/task-latency-reporting branch
[05:18:37] <seb_kuzminsky> it makes task warn us if it's taking too long, and it makes all the UIs (including halui) tolerate up to 5 seconds of latency from task, instead of the 1-2 seconds they accepted before
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[06:12:48] <archivist> seb_kuzminsky, does that mean 5 seconds from pressing the esc key to for an estop, rather high
[06:13:08] <seb_kuzminsky> no, not really
[06:13:37] <seb_kuzminsky> you press the escape key, the ui asks task to stop immediately, just like before
[06:14:24] <archivist> I have seen a disconcerting delay in that situation
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[06:14:38] <seb_kuzminsky> but now the ui lets task take up to 5 seconds to respond, instead of up to 1 or 2, before it calls it an error
[06:15:02] <seb_kuzminsky> this doesn't change how long task takes to respons, it just lets the uis deal with tasks long latencies a little better
[06:15:10] <archivist> never been able to put my finger on the culprit though
[06:15:12] <seb_kuzminsky> (and makes task tell us just how bad its latency is)
[06:15:44] <seb_kuzminsky> well, jepler today discovered the source of occasional 2+ second outages from task
[06:16:10] <seb_kuzminsky> it sometimes takes task a long time to store the gcode parameters to disk, and during that time it can't do anything else
[06:17:39] <archivist> I should check on my machine that sometimes exhibits slow ui response (not just axis, the editor too)
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[13:17:00] <pcw_home> Hmm thats interesting, if you start LinuxCNC uspace from a terminal and close the controlling
[13:17:02] <pcw_home> terminal you lose the GUI ( not sure what else) but HAL goes marching on
[13:17:03] <pcw_home> is there a hal way to know the GUI has gone AWOL?
[13:17:22] <jepler> ok, I think I've actually *eliminated* remap as the cause of this little gem: 9: duplicate O-word label - already defined in line 29: 'O200 IF [#2 GT 0]'
[13:17:45] <jepler> I rewrote the file so it can be called with a regular o-call instead of via remap
http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/toolchange1.ngc
[13:18:07] <jepler> start linuxcnc, and use o<toolchange1> call [0] [1] [1] / o<toolchange1> call [1] [2] [2]
[13:18:15] <jepler> when you do it via MDI you get the famous error
[13:18:32] <cradek> when you do O<toolchange> call?
[13:18:36] <jepler> right
[13:18:57] <cradek> wow! I bet that's a great clue
[13:19:42] <jepler> we can stop looking at remap..
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[13:31:31] <skunkworks> aww - but we like blaming it!
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[13:46:08] <skunkworks_> has anyone gone back to older versions of linuxcnc to see if the bug has always been there?
[13:47:50] <jepler> funny, cradek was just saying that to me over a bagel
[13:48:14] <skunkworks_> Mmmm bagel
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[13:48:51] <skunkworks_> I seem to remember mdi stuff being touched in the past
[13:49:57] <cradek> I'm not sure where we first started being able to do O-call in mdi
[13:50:05] <cradek> maybe it was 2.5
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[13:53:09] <skunkworks> zlog
[13:53:10] <zlog> skunkworks: Log stored at
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc-devel/2015-08-07.html
[13:56:14] <jepler> o<toolchange> endsub [1]
[13:56:17] <jepler> what's [1] doing here?
[13:56:41] <jepler> oh that's the "return value"
[13:56:48] <cradek> yeah, I don't know what it does
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[13:57:44] <cradek> can you even run 2.5?
[13:58:01] <jepler> me?
[13:58:07] <jepler> I haven't tried any other versions yet
[13:58:14] <jepler> I was trying to reduce the subroutine first
[13:59:35] <skunkworks_> So.. I should be able to drop the toolchange1.ngc into my ncfiles directory then run the 2 lines in mdi and get the error right?
[13:59:53] <skunkworks_> oh - I probably have to run his config.
[13:59:55] <jepler> skunkworks_: I am still using andy's config because it has to talk to the simulated carousel
[14:00:20] <skunkworks_> I finally got a failed to aling carousel.
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[14:04:24] <cradek> ok I think it's 218505cba8 where we gained mdi O-call
[14:04:27] <cradek> that is in 2.5
[14:08:10] <jepler> I think this is the most minimized I'm going to get:
http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/obug.ngc
[14:08:15] <jepler> the M66 is required
[14:08:28] <seb_kuzminsky> in the 2.6-remap-bug branch there's a non-carousel config that erproduces it
[14:08:32] <jepler> open linuxcnc, machine on, home all, mdi o<obug> call [0] / o<obug> call [1]
[14:09:45] <cradek> jepler: that's beautiful
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[14:10:36] <jepler> that one shouldn't need the rest of the carousel config either
[14:10:56] <cradek> 2.5 builds in 15s
[14:12:07] <cradek> argh I'm getting the thing where AXIS only runs once and then crashes forever after
[14:12:13] <cradek> I forget what fixes that
[14:12:13] <jepler> I do not reproduce it in rs274 in read-from-terminal mode
[14:12:17] <cradek> something about icons
[14:12:53] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: i sometimes get that when stuff crashes and leaves ipcs behind (sems & shms)
[14:13:02] <jepler> commit 1402d8a118de20edab2761521e132c41c9e68bfb
[14:13:05] <cradek> stash@{1}: On v2.5_branch: fix seticon crashycrashy
[14:13:05] <jepler> axis: drop seticon hack
[14:13:06] <jepler> maybe
[14:13:08] <cradek> heh
[14:14:09] <cradek> whatever's in my stash fixes it
[14:14:46] <cradek> emc/task/emctask.cc 374: interp_error: Unexpected character after O-word
[14:14:46] <cradek> Unexpected character after O-word
[14:15:03] <cradek> in 2.5 I get this on the first call[0]
[14:16:15] <jepler> reproduces in 2.6.0
[14:16:42] <jepler> when did we get named o-words?
[14:16:50] <cradek> I took away the "return value" and it does not reproduce in 2.5
[14:17:00] <cradek> is having the return value important?
[14:17:06] <jepler> for remap
[14:17:17] <cradek> for reproducing in 2.6 I mean
[14:17:32] <jepler> no
[14:17:46] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[14:17:53] <jepler> .. updated
http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/obug.ngc without it
[14:18:19] <jepler> what ref did you check, tip of 2.5?
[14:18:24] <cradek> yeah
[14:18:42] <jepler> what config did you test with?
[14:18:56] <cradek> sim/axis
[14:19:07] <jepler> [RS274NGC]
[14:19:07] <jepler> +SUBROUTINE_PATH=.
[14:19:08] <cradek> I added debugs in the two ifs, and it's all executing properly
[14:19:10] <jepler> did you have to add this?
[14:19:12] <cradek> no
[14:19:17] <jepler> huh
[14:19:32] <jepler> oh you put obug in nc_files
[14:20:07] <cradek> right, sorry
[14:20:14] <jepler> I had been putting it in the config directory
[14:20:21] <cradek> yeah it apparently works right in 2.5
[14:20:28] <cradek> this is good
[14:21:15] <jepler> Bisecting: 1475 revisions left to test after this (roughly 11 steps)
[14:21:26] <cradek> did you limit it to task?
[14:22:00] <cradek> er maybe -- src/emc/task src/emc/rs274ngc
[14:22:00] <jepler> no
[14:22:53] <jepler> oh god redis
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[14:26:46] <jepler> hm a lot of unbuildable refs in here
[14:32:44] <seb_kuzminsky> there were some dark days in 2.6
[14:35:02] <jepler> I think I have had 2 buildable refs and 15 unbuildable ones so far
[14:36:04] <jepler> do these refs just not build on wheezy or something?
[14:38:01] <jepler> I'm done for now
[14:38:08] <jepler> maybe with a lucid machine or something
[14:38:53] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: is it c++ stuff that's not building for you on wheezy?
[14:38:58] <jepler> different stuff
[14:39:07] <jepler> sometimes it's task not linking because python something
[14:39:13] <jepler> sometimes it's commit markers that were committed
[14:39:13] <seb_kuzminsky> ugh
[14:39:17] <seb_kuzminsky> haha
[14:39:19] <jepler> sometimes it links but doesn't start because of shared memory something
[14:39:23] <jepler> er conflict markers
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[14:40:10] <seb_kuzminsky> at work we have two special hats of shame that you have to wear if you break the build
[14:40:21] <seb_kuzminsky> one of them is for honest mistakes and subtle bugs
[14:40:33] <jepler> we used a rubber weevil for awhile but then one guy kept it so he could break the build whenever he wanted
[14:40:43] <seb_kuzminsky> but the other one is a ridiculous cowboy hat you have to wear if you make silly mistakes like that
[14:40:54] <jepler> that's racist against cowboys
[14:41:16] <seb_kuzminsky> cowboys are not a race, patrick
[14:41:50] <cradek> well on tv every cowboy I see is white
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[14:43:23] <jepler> how much time do you spend watching cowboys on TV?
[14:44:27] <seb_kuzminsky> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_QZNtflyJA
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[14:46:22] <cradek> jepler: I'd prefer not to talk about that
[14:47:25] <seb_kuzminsky> the last tv cowboy i watched was cowboy bebop, i'd be happy to talk about that
[14:48:39] <cradek> jepler: what's your bad ref?
[14:50:22] <jepler> git bisect good 405ed60ecc7ebffad1a6b538161aeed4fdb664c9
[14:50:26] <jepler> git bisect bad 1764a195548a68aa1c57ba349720744a6c28324a
[14:50:57] <jepler> full "git bisect log" at
http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/bisectlog.txt
[14:52:23] <seb_kuzminsky> awesome
[14:55:12] <skunkworks_> so cradek removing the return value also fixed it? [6905295396fd96537161af67b7cb2419b1b92290] interp/oword: enable optional return values on 'return' and 'endsub
[14:55:38] <cradek> no, I just did that to make it run on 2.5
[14:55:44] <skunkworks_> oh
[14:55:46] <skunkworks_> duh
[14:56:08] <jepler> right, it wasn't needed to reproduce it in 2.6.0 and that allowed to work (and succeed) in 2.5.4.
[14:56:23] <skunkworks_> but that sure seems like it narrows it down
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[15:07:46] <cradek> 395 consecutive commits are unbuildable because they contain conflict markers
[15:08:16] <skunkworks_> what does that mean?
[15:08:34] <skunkworks_> 'conflict markers'
[15:08:49] <cradek> it's hard for me to explain this problem and also be nice
[15:08:56] <skunkworks_> heh - ok
[15:09:17] <cradek> just believe me that it's really quite incredible
[15:11:19] <mozmck> somebody made a bunch of commits in a private branch, then pushed/merged without building?
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[15:40:06] <jepler> my personal bet is that it was a problem introduced by rebasing just before pushing
[15:41:42] <cradek> dfe0a86828
[15:41:47] <cradek> interp/oword: missed a merge conflict
[15:41:51] <cradek> also, unsure why these fail during rebase:
[15:41:52] <cradek> ...
[15:41:56] <cradek> so yeah
[15:42:06] <cradek> this is the first buildable one
[15:42:58] <cradek> and the breakage started here: interp_o_word.cc: reformat, sorry for the whitespace breakage. This was beyond readability.
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[15:43:34] <cradek> start with a bad idea (reformat everything) and then rebase 400 commits without paying attention, and then push it all.
[15:45:43] <mozmck> makes sense. I wondered how that could happen, but rebase makes sense.
[15:46:11] <cradek> of course you'd notice it at the end when your result didn't build
[15:46:34] <cradek> then all you have to do is not care one bit that your 400 commits are bogus now
[15:47:26] <cradek> which you might not care about, if you don't care whether bisect works in the future
[15:47:35] <cradek> it's maddening
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[15:48:50] * mozmck has not used bisect yet
[15:52:35] <cradek> and dfe0a86828 won't build because of boost-python stuff
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[15:56:24] <cradek> skunkworks_: do you have a lucid machine?
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[16:10:38] <cradek> oh yay
[16:10:52] <cradek> I hacked dfe0a86828 into running, and it does NOT show the bug
[16:11:08] <jepler> that's after the terribles?
[16:11:13] <cradek> yes!
[16:11:28] <jepler> what is the problem at dfe?
[16:11:56] <cradek> this fixes it:
http://paste.ubuntu.com/12021975/
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[16:12:50] <jepler> aha
[16:13:05] <jepler> I wonder how far past that ref that went unfixed
[16:13:15] <cradek> I bet the bisect is much less bad with this one marked good
[16:13:39] <jepler> Bisecting: a merge base must be tested
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[16:19:08] <jepler> Bisecting: 26 revisions left to test after this (roughly 5 steps)
[16:19:08] <jepler> [fe83fe91e3232e9057e48bee8adb999ad3b90dbe] classicladder -fix mix of whites space with tabs
[16:19:18] <cradek> offs
[16:20:47] <cradek> oh that one is minor, not a full reformat
[16:21:23] <jepler> my bisect only has mah commits left
[16:23:41] <jepler> well this is an interesting result
[16:23:51] <jepler> 0c8ad2c418795c5aeefcc45c0b351e12644c9c5a is the first bad commit
[16:23:55] <jepler> 0c8ad2c interp: firm up O-word handling
[16:24:06] <jepler> it adds error handling of mismatches of the kind that is being reported
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[16:24:20] <seb_kuzminsky> ding ding ding
[16:24:34] <jepler> but that means the wrongness is preexisting but undetected :-/
[16:25:22] <jepler> or that the error test is just wrong, of course
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[16:54:17] <jepler> so what we've learned is that M66 leads to emcTaskIssueCommand > emcTaskPlanExecute > Interp::execute setting _setup.sequence_number from <some number> to 0
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[16:56:54] <jepler> one possible fix: /shared/home/jepler/patches/0001-WIP-don-t-set-an-invalid-sequence-number.patch
[16:57:11] <cradek> heh, that path isn't going to work
[16:57:13] <jepler> oops
[16:57:25] <jepler> http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/0001-WIP-don-t-set-an-invalid-sequence-number.patch
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[16:58:45] <cradek> andypugh: you might want to read the log - jepler and I have been working on that bug
[16:58:49] <cradek> also, good morning
[17:00:12] <andypugh> Interesting, I was just homing in on the settings->sequence number as the problem. More by sleeping on it that analysing it :-)
[17:00:43] <cradek> it became off by a number of lines equal to the line number of the M66
[17:00:57] <cradek> if in MDI
[17:01:23] <andypugh> M66?
[17:01:28] <andypugh> What?
[17:01:47] <cradek> the queue-buster causes it, it's nothing about the O structure
[17:01:57] <andypugh> Aha!
[17:03:03] <jepler> I do believe that fixes it, letting the carousel demo run
[17:03:29] <jepler> I am not pleased with the fix, but when is that ever the case
[17:04:03] <cradek> is it just because you don't understand all the surrounding goop?
[17:04:20] <jepler> I know I'm putting a little self-adhesive bandage on goop
[17:04:35] <jepler> probably the real fix involves a goop solvent
[17:04:54] <cradek> sometimes when you add solvent to goop you just get more goop on you
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[17:07:13] <andypugh> It may be that that function shouldn’t even be called in the queue-buster case?
[17:07:40] <andypugh> (Not having looked yet)
[17:08:01] <cradek> I sure don't know
[17:09:08] <jepler> andypugh: if you can confirm that patch fixes your carousel, I'll ask Seb to review it for 2.7, or maybe even 2.6.
[17:09:35] <jepler> I guess I won't need this lucid chroot I was building earlier
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[17:09:57] <cradek> yeah I doubt that version built on lucid either
[17:09:58] <andypugh> You can try smoking the lucic chroot instead?
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[17:10:13] <cradek> what a swirl
[17:12:30] <jepler> task: remove pseudoMidLinenNumber, calls to interp_list.set_line_number()
[17:12:34] <jepler> - execRetval = emcTaskPlanExecute(command, pseudoMdiLineNumber);
[17:12:37] <jepler> + execRetval = emcTaskPlanExecute(command, 0);
[17:13:03] <jepler> we used to maintain a line number here but that was taken out by mah in 2012 at around the same time the new error checking code was added
[17:13:22] <jepler> I don't know if the old line number we'd been maintaining was right
[17:13:31] <cradek> he did a bunch of stuff with special line numbers (0 and -1) that I never understood
[17:14:13] <cradek> he did a bunch of stuff that I never understood
[17:14:16] <cradek> heh
[17:14:20] <andypugh> I have been seeing a lot of -1 numbers logging this issue
[17:14:36] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: your patch makes my test pass too
[17:14:39] <andypugh> I had (without evidence) assumed that was an MDI thing
[17:14:40] <seb_kuzminsky> but i dont understand it
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[17:15:24] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: if you investigated the call chain, you'd see that line_number is passed in as 0 in this particular case
[17:15:42] <jepler> and other than that, the line number was properly maintained by the interpreter
[17:16:34] <jepler> NULL command is a special case of some sort
[17:16:39] <seb_kuzminsky> so it's a queue-buster vs o-word bug, not a remap thing?
[17:16:51] <jepler> queue-buster vs o-word vs mdi
[17:16:56] <jepler> remap is off the hook
[17:17:29] <jepler> er is that what I mean? innocent in this matter.
[17:17:30] <cradek> it's only the O word stuff that made the wrong sequence number evident. it has nothing to do with O words.
[17:17:35] <seb_kuzminsky> hah
[17:18:25] <jepler> lunchtime
[17:25:44] <andypugh> Having fixed one bug-like thing in carousel-demo, there is also this (which is invisible unless you run from the command line)
http://www.pastebin.ca/3092635
[17:26:01] <andypugh> The other Vismach demos don’t seem to do it.
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[17:30:12] <andypugh> I am now very puzzled that the duplicate O-word was only reported once. Logging the data shows that _all_ the line numbers were wrong, all of the time.
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[17:36:58] <andypugh> Without the fix:
http://www.pastebin.ca/3092651 and with the fix:
http://www.pastebin.ca/3092657
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[17:52:08] <cradek> is it because it stopped at the first error?
[17:52:22] <jepler> andypugh: I do not get "error 1282" running your config
[17:53:02] <jepler> does that happen right at startup?
[17:55:19] <skunkworks> zlog
[17:55:20] <zlog> skunkworks: Log stored at
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc-devel/2015-08-07.html
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[18:01:49] <andypugh> jepler: Yes, it happens when loading the Vismach display. It doesn’t seem to stop anything working properly, though
[18:02:06] <andypugh> Possibly it is a fature of my graphics setup?
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[18:03:50] <jepler> is it unusual? linux with nvidia card and proprietary driver here.
[18:04:03] <skunkworks> andypugh, our next machine to convert is a matsurra with a changer that will user your work.
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[18:05:08] <andypugh> jepler: The machine i am testing on is running in a VM on a Mac, so I think it is fair to say that it has a pretty unusual graphical setup, yes.
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[18:05:47] <andypugh> It’s the Wheezy LiveCD on the Linux side
[18:05:55] <skunkworks> andypugh, is your config in 2.7?
[18:06:45] <jepler> skunkworks: branch andypugh/something
[18:06:52] <skunkworks> ah - ok
[18:06:59] <jepler> remotes/origin/andypugh/carousel_demo
[18:07:27] <jepler> it may get to go in 2.7 now, if we take the fix for the MDI M66
[18:07:44] <skunkworks> Great work!
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[18:09:53] <jepler> skunkworks: so if you want to try it, get that branch and then apply
http://emergent.unpythonic.net/files/sandbox/0001-WIP-don-t-set-an-invalid-sequence-number.patch
[18:10:30] <andypugh> Or you can run the VM anyway, it only breaks on the second MDI toolchange
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[18:22:52] <skunkworks> what is a good - high resoluton laptop with a real mouse pad?
[18:23:13] <skunkworks> (not a clickpad)
[18:23:22] <cradek> a thinkpad from about '05
[18:23:31] <mozmck> yeah, I buy used :)
[18:23:47] <cradek> and no you can't have mine
[18:23:48] <mozmck> Mine is a del precision M6400 from around 09
[18:23:59] <mozmck> 17" screen at 1920 x 1200
[18:24:01] <skunkworks> I would too - I would like atleast 2nd gen i5 or better
[18:24:01] <cradek> I put a 2048x1536 screen in it
[18:24:10] <mozmck> nice!
[18:24:42] <skunkworks> I have a dell xps which I have had since 11 but it is falling apart
[18:24:43] <mozmck> Mine is core2 extreme, and is really quite fast. has an external 1Gig nvidia card
[18:25:31] <mozmck> You can get an M6500 with an i7 quad and better specs than mine - used for $500 - $600 pretty readily I believe.
[18:25:36] <mozmck> Sometimes less.
[18:26:07] <cradek> does it have 3 real buttons?
[18:26:14] <mozmck> 6
[18:26:22] <cradek> !?
[18:26:42] <mozmck> 3 below the mousepad, and 3 above.
[18:26:54] <cradek> neat
[18:27:09] <andypugh> That’s not a laptop, it’s a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwriter
[18:27:27] <mozmck> real handy for different positions. Also has one of the mouse sticks in the middle of the keyboard
[18:28:59] <mozmck> Yeah, when I looked for something new, it was going to be $1200+ for what I wanted, and I got this about 3 years ago for $450.
[18:31:05] <skunkworks> andypugh, where is the config?
[18:31:33] <andypugh> sim/axis/vismach/VMC_toolchanher
[18:31:49] <andypugh> It also demonstrates spindle orient :-(
[18:31:55] <andypugh> :-) I mean
[18:32:10] <skunkworks> ah - I didn't look in vismach
[18:32:12] <mozmck> skunkworks: here's one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281752279314
[18:32:14] <andypugh> (M19 R 180 etc)
[18:33:08] <mozmck> skunkworks: another, slightly cheaper but not quite as good specs:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141736660770
[18:39:25] <skunkworks> Thanks
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[18:40:47] <cradek> that second one looks nice. 1920x1200, keyboard not too screwy
[18:40:53] <cradek> 3 buttons
[18:40:54] <mozmck> np. I like mine, although I did have the motherboard go out. I bought a new one for $40.
[18:41:19] <cradek> I'd rather have the normal middle section of a normal keyboard than a numpad
[18:41:28] <cradek> but nobody else wants that I guess
[18:41:45] <jepler> My daily laptop is a Lenovo Thinkpad T530. 1920x1080, ultranav, 15"
[18:41:48] <mozmck> there are 3 buttons right under the spacebar as well.
[18:42:01] <jepler> http://emergent.unpythonic.net/01365079830
[18:42:04] <skunkworks> a laptop with a number pad screws me up. I would have to get used to it. I am usually off by atleast 1 set of keys from home
[18:42:13] <cradek> mine is the one jepler discarded last :-)
[18:42:34] <cradek> minus a few parts I removed with sidecutters
[18:42:37] <skunkworks> I need 1080 atleast - anything less looks cartoony top me
[18:43:01] <mozmck> I really like the extra height gain with 1200 pixels tall
[18:43:08] <cradek> yeah
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[18:43:36] <skunkworks> does anyone get an eception in the tkinker.py?
[18:43:38] <jepler> and I also spend a fair amount of time on a samsung 11" chromebook XC303C12, 1366x768, no mouse buttons
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[18:43:51] <skunkworks> everthing runs though
[18:44:10] <mozmck> the precision is a little heavier than your chromebook I bet ;)
[18:44:17] <jepler> yeah, about 3x I think
[18:44:49] <andypugh> They gave us new lapdogs at work. Super expensive Panasonic Toughbooks. 1024 x 768 resolution. It’s maddening given that we need screens with hundreds of number on.
[18:45:12] <cradek> I can't believe they still make those screens
[18:45:25] <cradek> although I feel that way about x1080 too
[18:45:30] <andypugh> It also has the worst touchpad ever.
[18:45:47] <mozmck> I wonder if this might be related to the task delay writing the var file?
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/29486-computer-total-freezes-only-during-jogging
[18:45:55] <skunkworks> andypugh, awesome config
[18:46:26] <andypugh> The pointer moves about 1/2” in a random direction when you let go, and the side and bottom edge scrolling areas are too wide (and the setting to turn them off doesn’t “take” in the settings dialog)
[18:47:09] <skunkworks> that is one of those clickpads.. I hate those. You cannot rest your thumb on them or they act goofy
[18:47:16] <andypugh> I think a colleague summed it up “After working in a car for 20 minutes with the ToughLuck you want to hurt something. “
[18:47:57] <andypugh> skunkworks: No, it has buttons. Fnny rubbery ones that need a strong prod right in the middle.
[18:48:09] <skunkworks> eww
[18:48:16] <cradek> mozmck: I notice they didn't replace the actual hard disk
[18:48:57] <mozmck> hmm, yes.
[18:48:58] <cradek> > In resume the machine behaves like the keyboard key was pressed
[18:49:02] <cradek> I don't understand this part
[18:49:29] <cradek> task wouldn't write out the var file while keyboard jogging
[18:49:33] <andypugh> Maybe he means that releasing the key doesn’t stop the jog
[18:50:07] <mozmck> He needs more roots
[18:50:19] <cradek> I wonder if they have multiple guis (halui etc)
[18:50:34] <cradek> I've seen bad pendant configs cause bewildering message floods
[18:51:34] <cradek> I'd not be using continuous jogs on a 1000 ipm machine, wow
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[18:51:47] <mozmck> why?
[18:52:01] <cradek> wheel is so much safer
[18:52:09] <cradek> I only use wheel jogs on my fast machine
[18:52:28] <mozmck> on the plasma table I have it's 1000 ipm, and all I have is continuous jog.
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[18:53:05] <andypugh> I have never felt 100% happy with keyboard continuous (that’s all the lathe has, but that also has weak steppers)
[18:53:24] <andypugh> I think I would be happy enough with realtime-continuous.
[18:53:43] <cradek> bet m*v^2 is a lot higher on my mill than your plasma table
[18:54:10] <skunkworks_> zlog
[18:54:11] <zlog> skunkworks_: Log stored at
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc-devel/2015-08-07.html
[18:54:32] <mozmck> cradek: I'm sure it is! my gantry is around 100lbs
[18:55:21] <cradek> discomfort is proportional to the square of the kinetic energy :-)
[18:55:58] <cradek> hmm, the difference is 3m of powered usb extension to the keyboard
[18:56:06] <cradek> wonder what powered usb extension means
[18:56:45] <mozmck> powered hub?
[18:57:07] <cradek> I guess
[18:57:16] <mozmck> usb is noise prone
[18:57:24] <cradek> I'd sure watch dmesg for "the hub freaked out and I had to reset it" type messages
[18:57:36] <mozmck> if his keyboard is on that it could be a problem.
[18:58:10] <mozmck> nope, item 2) Keyboard location - directly connected...
[18:59:06] <cradek> We started to think what is different ... : Distance from keyboard/mouse/screen from the actual PC that is on the electrical cabinet (about 3 meters of powered USB extention).
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[19:05:39] <skunkworks> jepler, andypugh, fixes it here also. I do get the error 1282 stuff
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[19:07:14] <jepler> skunkworks: interesting. what is your video?
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[19:07:42] <skunkworks> nvidia I think - open source driver
[19:07:47] <skunkworks> let me look
[19:09:58] <skunkworks_> 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV730/M96-XT [Mobility Radeon HD 4670] (prog-if 00 [VGA controller]
[19:10:09] <skunkworks_> Kernel driver in use: radeon
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[19:14:58] <jepler> opengl.org doesn't even document that glMaterialfv can result in GL_INVALID_OPERATION
[19:15:04] <jepler> https://www.opengl.org/sdk/docs/man2/xhtml/glMaterial.xml#errors
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[19:21:12] <seb_kuzminsky> is anyone opposed to seb/2.7/task-latency-reporting? it adds some latency info logging to task, and makes all the UIs handle up to 5 seconds of latency from task instead of the 1-2 they currently do
[19:22:55] <cradek> was emcTaskNoDelay dead code?
[19:23:26] <cradek> er wait, you wanted it to do it always
[19:24:48] <cradek> this all looks fine to me
[19:26:15] <seb_kuzminsky> thanks
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[19:26:39] <seb_kuzminsky> i think i'll drop it into 2.6 though, since that branch has the same problem
[19:26:48] <cradek> ok
[19:33:18] <jepler> at this rate we'll need another 2.6 release
[19:33:37] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah
[19:34:08] <seb_kuzminsky> once the M66 thing goes in to 2.6 i'll make 2.6.9
[19:36:00] <cradek> ooh there's a touchy+lathe fix too
[19:36:20] <skunkworks> runtest past
[19:37:39] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: do you know if rob's branch origin/feature/tangent-improvement-2.7-rebase is the correct merge candidate? does it have your Quality blessing?
[19:38:37] <skunkworks> It has my quality blessing.. -rebase is the one I have been testing
[19:39:41] <skunkworks> I have found 1 overage of around 1% but I am not worried about it.
[19:45:40] <jepler> http://image.slidesharecdn.com/guardiansofyourcode-150423095739-conversion-gate02/95/guardians-of-your-code-29-638.jpg?cb=1429783778
[19:46:35] <skunkworks> :)
[19:46:53] <cradek> http://www.marriedtothesea.com/120513/how-to-hand-a-pair-of-scissors.gif
[19:48:14] <andypugh> jepler: Is it bad that I saw “127 new bugs” and thought “ah, that’s a signed byte problem”
[19:49:38] <jepler> ugh
[19:49:39] <jepler> > You can use the Github web interface, but there's a TOCTOU problem: If the pull-requester changes their master (or whatever they're PRing from) between the time you test and the time you merge, then you'll be merging code that you haven't reviewed/tested. So let's do it on the command line.
[19:49:47] <cradek> -127 would have been funny too
[19:50:56] <jepler> (I won't link to the article as a whole because it seems to not be giving good advice0
[19:51:17] <jepler> /0/)
[19:51:31] <cradek> bad advice on the internet?
[19:51:44] <jepler> yup, and about software even
[19:52:03] <andypugh> https://xkcd.com/386/
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[19:52:38] <seb_kuzminsky> andypugh: Is it bad that i recognized the xkcd number and chuckled before clicking on it?
[19:53:31] <cradek> I guessed it from context
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[20:04:35] <andypugh> 386 (like 123) is one of the ones I just know.
[20:05:14] <andypugh> So, I don’t find it at all unusual that you knew which one it should be
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[22:17:32] <andypugh> cradek: You might be gratified to know that, at this very moment, polar coordinates are being used to drill a hole circle.
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[22:45:30] <jepler> :)
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[22:48:52] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: so you want that sequence number fix in 2.6?
[22:49:03] <jepler> .. sounds like to me
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[22:56:22] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.6 d3cce60 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc task: warn if the main loop takes too long * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=d3cce60
[22:56:22] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.6 18f57cf 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc 10src/emc/usr_intf/keystick.cc 10src/emc/usr_intf/xemc.cc UIs: increase task receive timeout to 5.0 seconds * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=18f57cf
[22:56:50] <KGB-linuxcnc> 05seb/2.7/task-latency-reporting 1282dfa 06linuxcnc 04. branch deleted * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=1282dfa
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[23:04:35] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: yes pls
[23:06:58] -!- Mr_Sheesh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[23:13:30] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.7 1eb77c6 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc 10src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc 10src/emc/usr_intf/keystick.cc 10src/emc/usr_intf/xemc.cc Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/2.6' into 2.7 * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=1eb77c6
[23:13:31] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.7 d3a8d71 06linuxcnc Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/feature/tangent-improvement-2.7-rebase' into 2.7 * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=d3a8d71
[23:13:45] <seb_kuzminsky> boom
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[23:14:43] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05master 9b613cc 06linuxcnc 10(6 files in 4 dirs) Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/2.7' * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=9b613cc
[23:16:01] <JT-Shop> seb_kuzminsky, how close is 2.7.0?
[23:16:58] <seb_kuzminsky> how close are the docs? ;-)
[23:17:03] <JT-Shop> I see a bunch of commits from Rob
[23:17:19] <seb_kuzminsky> i merged & pushed his fix branch
[23:17:21] <JT-Shop> pretty much done, some minor things but nothing to stop the show
[23:17:38] <seb_kuzminsky> no show stoppers, i hear you :-)
[23:18:26] <seb_kuzminsky> i want jeff's sequence number fix first, then we're ready i think
[23:18:35] <JT-Shop> Cool!
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[23:20:35] <seb_kuzminsky> 2.6.9 at about the same time
[23:20:37] <seb_kuzminsky> bbl
[23:20:41] <JT-Shop> I may have a few things in the morning... dead tired tonight going roof to basement in a 3 story bank then crawling in holes to work on fountains all day
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[23:24:00] <andypugh> JT-Shop: No offence meant, but you aren’t really built for that sort of thing, from what I have seen
[23:25:06] <andypugh> seb_kuzminsky: Carousel in or out?
[23:25:22] <andypugh> The component itself can certainly go in.
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[23:51:05] <jepler> it's taking more time because I decided to write a test...
[23:55:26] <andypugh> I approve.
[23:56:41] <jepler> iteration 108
[23:56:49] <jepler> and then running it a lot of times :)
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