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[00:19:45] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/18-computer/29429-the-weekest-link#60708
[00:20:40] <cradek> (although I'm suppressing a lot of comments about this post) I think people worry a lot more about latency numbers than is necessary, and I wonder if we could affect that somehow
[00:21:39] <cradek> I wonder if we could determine whether software stepgen is in use, and if not, relax that realtime-delay warning error a lot
[00:21:54] <cradek> er maybe presence of base thread?
[00:22:40] <cradek> I wonder if it's a software bug, documentation bug, or self-perpetuating culture bug
[00:24:20] <archivist> or, we admit it, and the dark side gloss over the issue
[00:24:57] <cradek> it's not just that
[00:25:12] <cradek> I see people saying they've worked on it for weeks and they can only get their latency down to 20000
[00:25:20] <cradek> which is JUST FINE even with software stepgen
[00:25:32] <cradek> I wonder what makes them do this
[00:25:41] <archivist> I have PCs that are about 22k at best
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[00:26:50] <cradek> I guess I have fpga cards on all my machines now
[00:27:18] <cradek> if I had latencies of 50000 it would be fine except I might see the warningerror
[00:27:26] <archivist> I have no fpga and have to live within my means
[00:28:47] <PCW> I think you will only get a warning if the servo thread jitter is > 20% of the period (so 200 usec on a 1 KHz thread)
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[00:29:13] <cradek> pretty sure that's not the rule
[00:29:36] <cradek> it's the variance between this servo cycle and the last several
[00:29:53] <cradek> but your rule really might be better
[00:31:13] <PCW> even 200 usec is OK if you retime the stepgen and encoder position sampling
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[01:11:22] <PCW> archivist: I'll send you a FPGA card for free if you dont mind soldering 2 wires on it
[01:11:24] <PCW> (have a dozen or so first rev 7I80DBs that have the Ethernet EEPROM DI/DO wires swapped)
[01:11:25] <PCW> we patched some but that got old fast
[01:23:58] <jepler> ah that's what those wires are on the ones you sent cradek
[01:32:29] <PCW> if its 2 green wires, that what its is (I always make that DI/DO mistake)
[01:33:45] <PCW> probably why they use MOSI and MISO for SPI, harder to confuse
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[02:29:59] <cradek> Shank diameter : 3mm (1/8 inch)
[02:34:23] <jepler> mumble mumble government work
[02:36:23] <cradek> I can't seem to find the tooling I need :-/
[02:36:38] <cradek> these diamond burrs work fine, but the shanks are undersized and so crappy they pull out of the collet
[02:37:10] <cradek> they're for a dremel or something
[02:38:36] <cradek> somehow even after two screwups I haven't ruined the work quite yet
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[16:38:08] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Jeff Epler 05jepler/hm2-eth-multiple a00817f 06linuxcnc 10docs/man/man9/hm2_eth.9 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.c 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.h hm2_eth: allow multiple instances (up to 4) * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=a00817f
[16:38:08] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Jeff Epler 05jepler/hm2-eth-multiple 06ca091 06linuxcnc 10(7 files in 2 dirs) hostmot2: support split reads * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=06ca091
[16:38:08] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Jeff Epler 05jepler/hm2-eth-multiple c76ecd0 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.c hm2_eth: make unrecognized boards work * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=c76ecd0
[16:38:11] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Jeff Epler 05jepler/hm2-eth-multiple 3f49dd5 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.c 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_spi.c 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2-lowlevel.h 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/tram.c hostmot2: don't overload queue_write's length argument * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=3f49dd5
[16:38:16] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Jeff Epler 05jepler/hm2-eth-multiple 2a83a1b 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.c hm2_eth: print board_ip in messges about arp * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=2a83a1b
[16:38:19] <jepler> seb_kuzminsky: I believe I've addressed your review notes. ^^^
[16:50:44] <jepler> now switching to my u3 for the next task
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[17:14:16] <jepler> first, I have to provoke it to fail for me, and so I have a general idea of the frequency of the failure
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[17:15:11] <jepler> the two failures seb noted were 1100 and 1453, so the first guess is once per ~350 runs of the full testsuite
[17:19:54] <jepler> looks like the testsuite takes about 20000 samples with halsampler across all tests
[17:20:10] <jepler> -> 1 failure per 7 million sampler cycles
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[17:29:55] <jepler> so maybe my first time around was lucky -- I got it on iteration 311 of running just limit3.0 and threads.0 (in threads.0)
[17:39:48] <jepler> whee, a purpose-built setup hits it 50% of the time in <1 minute
[17:58:43] <jepler> and with a few judicious barrier ops added, 10 40-second tests all passed
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[18:04:24] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: awesome!
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[19:24:49] <cradek> ooooh, jepler's the wizard today
[19:24:55] <cradek> we need a wizard hat
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[19:35:03] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/49-basic-configuration/29420-rigid-tapping-with-a-speed-controlled-spindle?start=10#60742
[19:35:22] <cradek> I guess seeing the obvious bug in a gcode program is as wizardy as I get :-P
[19:35:44] <seb_kuzminsky> http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/781/wizard.jpg
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[19:39:10] <cradek> I wonder if a piece of aluminum foil would make the crappy rough undersized shanks on these diamond burrs actually clamp in the collet
[19:40:43] <seb_kuzminsky> i've used beer-can sheet-metal for shims before, but never in a spindle collet
[19:41:04] <cradek> sure because that would be nuts
[19:41:19] <cradek> so I'm gonna go try it
[19:41:37] <seb_kuzminsky> awesome
[19:41:46] <seb_kuzminsky> make a movie so we can see when it explodes
[19:46:13] <mozmck> Anyone need an electron microscope?
[19:46:35] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: what yah got?
[19:46:38] <mozmck> http://www.ebay.com/itm//201388723543
[19:46:44] <mozmck> 4 miles down the road from me.
[19:47:01] <CaptHindsight> nice
[19:47:09] <mozmck> I think I need it, but I'm not sure what for yet :)
[19:47:14] <CaptHindsight> was looking at some last week
[19:47:22] <cradek> for magnifying things a lot
[19:47:43] <CaptHindsight> turn it into a dual SEM and FIB machine down to 1nm resolution
[19:47:52] <CaptHindsight> FIB = focused ion beam
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[19:56:19] <CaptHindsight> oh it's a TEM not a SEM
[19:56:24] <CaptHindsight> see even smaller stuff
[20:05:08] <Tom_itx> cradek, get some brass shimstock from a hobby store to wrap around the shanks
[20:06:11] <Tom_itx> i keep an envelope of various thickness in my tool box for various things
[20:07:16] <jepler> 200 iterations of the test harness, 400 million halsampler samples, no more bad information read
[20:08:09] <cradek> the aluminum foil really didn't work at all
[20:08:26] <Tom_itx> brass is stiffer
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[20:08:56] <cradek> I think I have some, 10 miles from here
[20:09:03] <cradek> could be worse
[20:09:52] <cradek> I have feeler gauge stock too, but I don't know what thicknesses
[20:10:02] <Tom_itx> alternate to aluminum foil would be aluminum duct tape
[20:10:15] <Tom_itx> it's a thin aluminum sheet like foil with adhesive back
[20:10:25] <cradek> I've been considering trying super glue
[20:10:43] <cradek> hmm I should try to measure how much slop there is
[20:10:45] <Tom_itx> thin sandpaper too
[20:10:53] <Tom_itx> like 600 etc
[20:11:03] <Tom_itx> if you can get it wrapped around that little shaft
[20:11:36] <cradek> there's nowhere near that much space
[20:11:37] <Tom_itx> the collet will expand some
[20:12:32] <cradek> it's 1/8 and has hardly any give to it
[20:12:39] <cradek> it's not slotted very deep
[20:13:41] <cradek> about .0025 of wiggle
[20:13:56] <cradek> if I have .001 shim stock it might be perfect
[20:14:03] <Tom_itx> yeah
[20:14:05] <cradek> bbl :-)
[20:14:37] <Tom_itx> i've been known to sacrifice feeler gages in a pinch
[20:14:53] <cradek> yeah I don't know if I have a set with .001
[20:15:05] <cradek> I think the cheap sets just go down to 2
[20:17:16] <Tom_itx> http://www.professormotor.com/product-p/ks258.htm
[20:18:32] <Tom_itx> your local hobby store should carry that K&S stuff
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[20:36:52] <JT-Shop> some locktite on the shaft may work
[20:44:02] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Chris Morley 05stepconf-mach-import 4f57b42 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/stepconf/Submakefile 03src/emc/usr_intf/stepconf/import_mach.py stepconf -add import-mach file * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=4f57b42
[20:44:03] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Chris Morley 05stepconf-mach-import 866cf48 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/stepconf/pages.py 10src/emc/usr_intf/stepconf/start.glade stepconf -add code to utilize mach convert program * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=866cf48
[20:44:42] <JT-Shop> YEA!
[20:45:19] <cmorley> Hey JT-Sop:
[20:45:47] <cmorley> JT-Shop: can you give that branch a once over when you get time?
[20:46:36] <cmorley> It is based off of 2.7 - I will have to check with Seb if that is ok to push - if you are happy with it.
[20:46:40] <jepler> manpage:
http://paste.debian.net/283687/ patches:
http://media.unpythonic.net/emergent-files/sandbox/linuxcnc-barrier.patches.mbox
[20:48:01] <JT-Shop> cmorley, I'll test it out in the morning
[20:48:08] <JT-Shop> thanks for adding that
[20:48:48] <cmorley> ok sounds good. I have tested with one Mach file seems ok, after some tweaks - see commit comment.
[20:49:06] <cmorley> ya no problem thanks for writing it :)
[20:49:24] <cmorley> ttyl
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[21:09:36] <cradek> jepler: awesome
[21:09:40] <cradek> cmorley: awesome
[21:09:44] <cradek> JT-Shop: awesome
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[21:18:58] <seb_kuzminsky> cmorley: it's very welcome in 2.7
[21:19:05] <seb_kuzminsky> i'll review it tonight
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[21:52:10] <jepler> latest from SF confirms that mailing lists are still not restored
[21:52:12] <jepler> > dev services (SCM, uploads, ML's, project web) pending restoral
[21:52:18] <jepler> (which isn't even a word)
[21:53:47] <jepler> but at least it makes the list of stuff to fix
[21:54:44] <cradek> jepler: which version should get barriers?
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[21:59:52] <jepler> cradek: certainly nothing before 2.7. I don't care too strongly whether it goes into 2.7 even, since we're not going to promote linuxcnc on arm afaik
[22:02:27] <Tom_itx> isn't that machinekit's thing?
[22:04:38] <jepler> mumble
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[22:18:06] <seb_kuzminsky> i agree 2.7 is the earliest that makes sense to add it
[22:18:40] <seb_kuzminsky> i wonder what the impact on i386 and amd64 would be. does gcc emit anything at all for barriers on those architectures?
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[22:22:16] <skunkworks> zlog
[22:22:16] <zlog> skunkworks: Log stored at
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc-devel/2015-07-18.html
[22:22:28] <JT-Shop> I love it when people toss out ideas and get good feedback. I never thought of adding the conversion program to stepconf but it makes perfect sense
[22:23:10] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah
[22:23:18] <andypugh> Which program is that?
[22:23:43] <andypugh> Ah, the Mach importer?
[22:23:44] <JT-Shop> mach 3 to stepconf conversion
[22:23:49] <JT-Shop> aye
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[22:24:06] <andypugh> Yes. That’s a “doh!” isn’t it?
[22:24:14] <JT-Shop> exactly
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[22:24:51] <andypugh> seb_kuzminsky: Do you still think that the toolchanger vismach would be nice in 2.7?
[22:25:17] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, sounds like fun
[22:25:23] <seb_kuzminsky> does it go with a particular sim config?
[22:25:51] <andypugh> One tricksy thing is that the spindle orient part works a lot better with a change in the orient comp that I only pushed to master
[22:26:10] <andypugh> It’s a complete standalone sim config
[22:26:35] <seb_kuzminsky> ok, having a sim config that shows how to use it is good
[22:26:44] <seb_kuzminsky> what's the orient thing? is it a bugfix or a new feature?
[22:27:03] <andypugh> I will look at putting a latch/oneshot in so that the is-oriented is delayed.
[22:27:10] <andypugh> New pin
[22:27:15] <seb_kuzminsky> hmm
[22:27:52] <seb_kuzminsky> the new pin has a delayed .is-oriented value?
[22:27:57] <seb_kuzminsky> brb
[22:28:28] <andypugh> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commit;h=9763aa8efe856da5aef963615c81b4aeb36d6755
[22:29:26] <andypugh> The new pin goes flase when orient-enable is aserted, and only goes true when some orienteering has happened. A simple ‘near” tends to go true immediately and aborts the orient.
[22:30:12] <andypugh> It looks like something that might be fixable by thread order, but doesn’t seem to be, or I didn’t try enough combinations.
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[22:34:55] <skunkworks> rob has a fix in his github rempository - I hope to test it soon. (he has been running through is test too)
[22:35:02] <skunkworks> rempository?
[22:35:18] <andypugh> fix for what?
[22:38:48] <skunkworks> there was a acc violation with certain accelleration/arc combination
[22:39:12] <skunkworks> andypugh: the bug you posted on sourceforge from the forum
[22:39:53] <andypugh> Ah, that one.
[22:40:30] <skunkworks> hi fixed it last week but it caused other issues. :)
[22:40:34] <skunkworks> *He
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[22:49:45] <jepler> libnml appears to use semaphores to prevent one side writing into an NML message while another side is reading it
[22:49:57] <jepler> accordingly, it does not have the data ordering problems of our other, cruder systems
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[22:59:00] <jepler> (os semaphores should incorporate barriers)
[23:01:45] <andypugh> jepler: Was that a comment on my comment, or a standalone comment unrelated to my comment?
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[23:11:37] <seb_kuzminsky> jepler: great
[23:11:44] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks: great
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[23:15:02] <andypugh> seb_kuzminsky: Have you run the vismach/toolchange sim?
[23:16:05] <andypugh> (I can’t actually remember if the version I posted yesterday uses normal orient or modded orient)
[23:16:06] <seb_kuzminsky> andypugh: not yet, i'll try to do it tonight
[23:16:43] <seb_kuzminsky> what's the branch called?
[23:17:49] <andypugh> It uses ordinary orient at the moment. And it isn’t a branch, it is currently a ZIP on the forum.
[23:18:46] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/24-hal-components/29153-vmc-related-hal-questions#58732
[23:19:04] <andypugh> (More use to the intended audience than a git branch at the moment)
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[23:26:13] <seb_kuzminsky> andypugh: can you push it as a branch please? that way the buildbot will tell us if there are any problems on any platforms (and it's more convenient for me to look at)
[23:27:23] <andypugh> OK, but not now. I am in a hotel room in Spain, and it’s getting late.
[23:28:03] <seb_kuzminsky> ok, when you get a chance
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