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[00:00:30] <seb_kuzminsky> this doesn't address frederic rible's issue, but it fixes a related bug in io startup
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[01:19:45] <seb_kuzminsky> cmorley1: did you see my reply to your review request?
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[01:20:11] <cmorley1> yes, I pushed the work. Thanks
[01:21:33] <seb_kuzminsky> oh! i missed it
[01:22:06] <seb_kuzminsky> oop, yep, there it is
[01:22:06] <seb_kuzminsky> thanks
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[01:26:24] <cmorley1> must be getting close to 2.7 now...
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[01:28:54] <seb_kuzminsky> still waiting on the encoder dpll thing from pcw/micges, then yes
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[01:47:49] <mozmck> how is that going I wonder
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[01:53:06] <cradek> have we heard anything about the tp bug? has anyone talked to rob?
[02:01:40] <skunkworks> I sent him an email today - I think he is pretty busy with a new job. He does get back to me though usually :)
[02:07:43] <linuxcnc-build> build #2566 of 4007.deb-precise-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_1] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/4007.deb-precise-i386/builds/2566 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>, John Thornton <bjt128@gmail.com>
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[03:46:41] <linuxcnc-build> build #2558 of 4006.deb-lucid-rtai-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed shell_1] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/4006.deb-lucid-rtai-i386/builds/2558 blamelist: Sebastian Kuzminsky <seb@highlab.com>, Moses McKnight <moses@texband.net>, John Thornton <bjt128@gmail.com>
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[03:54:39] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: do you mean
https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/bugs/424/ ?
[03:56:03] <cradek> yes
[03:58:17] <seb_kuzminsky> yeap, guess that should be fixed before 2.7.0 too
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[04:21:23] <seb_kuzminsky> those two build failures are that permission problem the buildbot deb archive has somtimes
[04:21:32] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm trying some things to debug it
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[04:47:27] <seb_kuzminsky> linuxcnc-build: force build --branch=master 0000.checkin
[04:47:28] <linuxcnc-build> build #3181 forced
[04:47:28] <linuxcnc-build> I'll give a shout when the build finishes
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[05:37:07] <linuxcnc-build> Hey! build 0000.checkin #3181 is complete: Success [3build successful]
[05:37:07] <linuxcnc-build> Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/0000.checkin/builds/3181
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[11:46:24] <skunkworks_> zlog
[11:46:24] <zlog> skunkworks_: Log stored at
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc-devel/2015-06-04.html
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[14:59:59] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.6 c277688 06linuxcnc 10docs/src/remap/structure.txt docs: remove a stray tab in the middle of a word * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=c277688
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[15:10:07] <seb_kuzminsky> i think i know why task hangs at startup if there's an m61 in RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE
[15:10:35] <seb_kuzminsky> task runs emcTaskPlanInit() at startup, which handles that ini variable:
[15:10:38] <seb_kuzminsky> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/task/emctask.cc;h=9156555185ced5fb2f1cc35001dcb946bd7b27d7;hb=refs/heads/2.6#l408
[15:11:15] <seb_kuzminsky> down on line 435 it feeds the startup codes to interp
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[15:11:42] <seb_kuzminsky> if interp returns INTERP_EXECUTE_FINISH, i think that means it wants task to drain the interp queue, but task does not
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[15:14:15] <seb_kuzminsky> so i think you can't do queue busters in RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE currently
[15:14:17] <seb_kuzminsky> bbl
[15:16:01] <brlcad> seb_kuzminsky: was any progress made with the two students, discussing a half-project?
[15:16:21] <seb_kuzminsky> very slow progress
[15:16:42] <brlcad> one seems to be recoiling, didn't feel he was qualified to work on it (which I doubt)
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[15:17:10] <brlcad> think it's more a matter of identifyingsimple incremental goals, not having grandios expectations :)
[15:17:21] <brlcad> (on both sides)
[15:17:22] <seb_kuzminsky> brlcad: cmorley1 has been helping guruwinder
[15:17:31] <seb_kuzminsky> lots of handholding, little forward progress
[15:17:37] <seb_kuzminsky> i got to run, back in about 2 hours
[15:17:43] <brlcad> right, I think he's the one recoiling?
[15:17:49] <brlcad> cmorley1: thoughts?
[15:17:51] <brlcad> cya seb_kuzminsky
[15:18:09] <cradek> it appeared to me that cmorley did more work explaining the project in simple detailed steps than he would have done by doing the improvement himself
[15:18:37] <cradek> and it sounds like that still wasn't enough
[15:19:21] <cradek> oh, I see he's here today, I shouldn't talk for him
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[15:55:25] <pcw_home> Is there a generic way to defer a portion of hal command processing until say a particular hal pin is true?
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[15:58:12] <cradek> pcw_home: not really. you'd have to poll it and then run a new halcmd
[16:00:37] <pcw_home> Oh well no "If ExtHardwareRunning { HALCMDS }" iguess
[16:07:27] <cradek> loadusr has the stuff where it waits for the component to become ready...
[16:07:31] <cradek> not sure if that could help
[16:13:45] <pcw_home> This would be for RT drivers, for example where Estop removes all control power
[16:13:46] <pcw_home> but uses hm2-eth (powered down at estop) and have the GUI start but be able to
[16:13:48] <pcw_home> say the remote hardware is not up (and gracefully enter,leave the Estop/no comms state)
[16:15:47] <pcw_home> maybe this is not a reasonable situation (but its a current customers setup)
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[16:21:06] <mozmck> pcw_home: you can do a lot with haltcl
[16:21:37] <pcw_home> Yeah I keep meaning to try that out
[16:21:51] <mozmck> I'm working on doing something like that with our setup
[16:23:55] <seb_kuzminsky> we dont have examples, and it's not well tested, but i think you can also do some halcmd-like things from python
[16:24:27] <pcw_home> I wonder if hm2_eth should have the same thing as sserial ( a run pin )
[16:26:17] <pcw_home> ( that gets set false if comms are bolluxed and can be manually set false/true to bring the interface up/down )
[16:26:22] <cradek> it sounds like you have a component that calls hal_ready before it's ready. can you fix that?
[16:26:53] <cradek> I think you can take all the time you want at load time
[16:27:38] <cradek> although I don't know if you can ultimately fail
[16:27:49] <pcw_home> but doesn't that hang the rest of the startup?
[16:28:18] <mozmck> Here's a tcl sample that checks for a pin existence. As far as polling and then connecting pins later, I bet you could do that in python pretty easily.
[16:28:20] <mozmck> http://pastie.org/10223580
[16:29:00] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: pcw_home is trying to solve a problem that happens after startup, if i understand
[16:29:20] <seb_kuzminsky> the user powers down the fpga during estop
[16:29:44] <seb_kuzminsky> pcw_home: how are things going with encoder dpll? that's the second-to-last blocker for 2.7.0
[16:29:51] <pcw_home> yes or at startup (start a partially operational system so you have GUI and status at least)
[16:30:03] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah
[16:30:24] <seb_kuzminsky> it's the same as the "power off the spindle-vfd at estop" problem that jmk and i were talking about earlier
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[16:30:44] <pcw_home> Yep same type of issue
[16:31:04] <seb_kuzminsky> i think each driver just needs to handle comms outages gracefully, there's really no way around it
[16:31:32] <seb_kuzminsky> i have one of those usb jog dongles that disconnects every once in a while, same problem
[16:31:58] <pcw_home> mozmck: that looks like what I was thinking and maybe the way to deal with this issue
[16:33:15] <mozmck> pcw_home: That works for startup, but I don't know about afterwards.
[16:33:44] <mozmck> I plan to also add code to catch if a component does not start properly and give a user-friendly error message.
[16:33:56] <pcw_home> if the comms outage is at startup and you dont have any hardware pins yet, its more of dynamic hal modification issue
[16:33:58] <pcw_home> rather than a driver issue at least the way I'm thinking (which may be wrong)
[16:34:39] <mozmck> hm2_eth is one that I was going to check that way, because it could just not be powered on, but you get a full dump of un-readable error (to most users).
[16:35:07] <mozmck> I think hm2_eth should still load even if it can't talk to the board.
[16:35:19] <pcw_home> I though micges was going to work on the encoder dpll stuff but I guess he's too busy
[16:36:02] <mozmck> At least that's how I'm doing with our hardware, and when it can communicate then it sets a "connected" pin and starting working.
[16:36:30] <pcw_home> probably at this point it should just be deferred to the next release (if absolutely needed it can be done with raw-write)
[16:37:43] <pcw_home> Yeah hm2-eth could just ping the card before getting too deep in setup
[16:41:30] <seb_kuzminsky> if hm2_eth loads while the fpga is powererd down, you can't query the smart-serial daughters, right? so you dont know what pins to create, so you can't call hal_ready(), so you can't come out of estop
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[16:42:26] <seb_kuzminsky> pcw_home: ok, i'll stop thinking of encoder dpll as a blocker, and release when the tp bug is fixed (#424)
[16:42:53] <seb_kuzminsky> if encoder dpll makes it in before, it's welcome in 2.7, if not, then lets talk about wheter it belongs in 2.7 or master (2.8)
[16:43:47] <pcw_home> probably 2.7 since its backwards compatible with non-DPLL configs
[16:44:09] <mozmck> You can put it in the release notes as a known bug :)
[16:44:20] <mozmck> I see that often enough.
[16:45:12] <pcw_home> I could duplicate the TP bug but only at lower accelerations than my test rig was set for
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[16:48:10] <pcw_home> I think what was desired is this: start linuxcnc with hardware off/broken/whatever
[16:48:11] <pcw_home> and GUI comes up but of course wont come out of estop state and says why
[16:48:56] <mozmck> That's basically what I plan to do also
[16:50:52] <pcw_home> More friendly for appliance type usage
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[17:02:53] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, that sounds desirable
[17:03:03] <pcw_home> I did have to resort to trig but have convinced myself that for normal machines the chord errors
[17:03:05] <pcw_home> at a 1 KHz servo thread are not important and even 500 hz is ok for a lot of step/dir usage
[17:03:06] <pcw_home> meaning Preemt-RT and Ethernet should work for even pretty lousy Hosts
[17:03:28] <seb_kuzminsky> but i think we need all the comps to call hal_ready() before we start hal
[17:03:42] <seb_kuzminsky> all the non-user comps at least, no?
[17:03:56] <pcw_home> Yeah
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[17:04:54] <mozmck> seb_kuzminsky: I'm still interested in helping with the next release to learn. Any other volunteers for release manager?
[17:05:01] <seb_kuzminsky> so that would require a fairly major restructuring of the hm2 driver system
[17:05:26] <seb_kuzminsky> mozmck: i assumed you were since you hadn't un-volunteered yourself ;-) i've heard of no one else who's stepped up
[17:05:45] <mozmck> ok :)
[17:06:33] <seb_kuzminsky> there's 2 bug fixes in 2.6 since 2.6.8, maybe that's worth another release
[17:07:09] <pcw_home> ( chord errors meaning max deviation of actual polygonal path cause by velocity only stepgen from arc )
[17:07:51] <seb_kuzminsky> hm, and several fixes in 2.7, maybe time for another prerelease there
[17:08:05] <seb_kuzminsky> i'd been hoping to make the next one 2.7.0, but it doesn't look like that's happening :-(
[17:08:17] <mozmck> do you find the fixes just looking at commit logs?
[17:08:23] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah
[17:08:37] <seb_kuzminsky> i just ran this: git log --oneline v2.6.8..origin/2.6
[17:09:07] <seb_kuzminsky> that's usually enough to jog my memory, then i take out the --oneline (and maybe add -p) to see more detail
[17:09:13] <mozmck> nice
[17:09:18] <seb_kuzminsky> or you can use a more interactive tool like tig or gitk
[17:09:45] <mozmck> I usually run gitg - easy command to remember and a nice graphical display.
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[21:39:59] <JT-Shop> mozmck, having expanding collapsing menu that stays can't be done with a local copy
[21:40:26] <mozmck> JT-Shop: that's a bummer!
[21:41:09] <mozmck> pdf is still pretty nice.
[21:42:54] <JT-Shop> we can have expanding collapsing on the main html page
[21:43:34] <JT-Shop> and have unlimited links in the documents :)
[21:44:25] <seb_kuzminsky> links between the different parts of the docs is really nice to have
[21:45:07] <JT-Shop> yea get rid of all the " see xx document for more info" and just have a link
[21:45:30] <seb_kuzminsky> i've always liked how we have different documents for different audiences, but maybe the better links are worth more than that separation
[21:46:07] <JT-Shop> after a few years to me it seems that there is no difference between the user and builder 95% of the time
[21:46:35] <JT-Shop> only in places like commercial shops would there be user and integrator
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[21:46:58] <seb_kuzminsky> there are a lot more cnc users than cnc builders in my local hackspace
[21:48:07] <Tom_itx> links are good until they're broke
[21:48:28] <seb_kuzminsky> the links in our docs are verified on every build now, and a broken link causes a build failure
[21:48:40] <Tom_itx> oh that's nice :)
[21:48:44] <seb_kuzminsky> (internal links only)
[21:48:49] <Tom_itx> right
[21:49:00] <Tom_itx> well they really shouldn't chnage
[21:49:05] <Tom_itx> * sp
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[22:05:39] <JT-Shop> yea a hackerspace is like a shop and has mostly users, I was referring to the 59,000 posts on the forum and the millions of posts on the mailing list from builders who use the machines
[22:06:13] <seb_kuzminsky> i agree
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[22:18:34] <JT-Shop> maybe 1 1/2 million on the mailing list, I lost count lol
[22:20:18] <cmorley1> bricad: I thought I had spelled out an easy starter feature. I haven't seen any code so can't say what's up good or bad. It's hard to say because i have been deep in linuxcnc for many years so one forgets how steep the learning curve is.
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[23:54:48] <brlcad> cmorley: unless you have outstanding documentation and relevant examples, "most" students tend to have a pretty hard time getting acclimated
[23:56:08] <brlcad> cmorley: if you have a really simple (perhaps tediouisly time consuming) project they could work on, it might be better to get them started there and see how things go
[23:57:27] <brlcad> it could be something as simple as a code quality task like turning on a bunch of compiler warnings or running a static analyzer and fixing everything or writing unit tests to help verify expected behavior
[23:57:30] <cmorley> yes I understand. my only contact has been through the list - I am not aware of any particular problem - I think I answered all questions.
[23:57:54] <brlcad> I talked to the student a couple days ago and he sounded pretty defeated is why I mentino it
[23:58:38] <brlcad> yet I know he's capable given the work he's already done for us
[23:59:45] <brlcad> almost certainly just a lot of unfamilarity or too much detail to wade through under a pressured timeframe