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[00:12:33] <andypugh> Hooray! Pleased by failure! I made a bootable kernel. With no USB or networking, bit at least it booted.
[00:21:55] <skunksleep> Yay!? :)
[00:23:18] <PCW> easier to frame working vs not working when you have an example of both
[00:23:22] <andypugh> Well, I know that the make modules failed, looks like something in the actual code
[00:24:09] <PCW> save your working .config !
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[01:15:56] <cradek> yay andy
[01:20:49] <mozmck> hmm, the build dependencies do not appear to be complete.
[01:21:36] <mozmck> I built a package that depends on the build dependencies using (mk-build-deps -B control)
[01:22:13] <cradek> that would be surprising since we use pbuilder on buildbot. what do you find is missing?
[01:22:19] <mozmck> Installed that on a new computer, but ./configure --with-realtime=uspace failed because it was missing bwidget, tclx, and libtk-img
[01:22:44] <mozmck> after installing those I could successfully run ./configure
[01:23:04] <seb_kuzminsky> mozmck: you touched the config stuff last, its your problem now :-P
[01:23:06] <cradek> hmm is buildbot uspaceing? surely it is
[01:23:17] <mozmck> haha!
[01:23:30] <cradek> well wherever the buck is I'm sure it's not here
[01:23:52] <mozmck> The stuff I touched is sitting in the deb-new-configure branch :) what is the plan for that?
[01:24:04] <seb_kuzminsky> mozmck: src/configure checks for runtime dependencies, in addition to the build-time dependencies that debian/configure checks for
[01:24:29] <mozmck> aha, so that would explain it.
[01:24:39] <seb_kuzminsky> see src/configure's --disable-check-runtime-deps
[01:24:58] <mozmck> I thought debian/configure would call src/configure ... oh I see.
[01:25:04] <seb_kuzminsky> mozmck: i guess at this point we should probably put it in master rather than 2.7
[01:25:15] <seb_kuzminsky> deb/conf and src/conf are totally separate
[01:25:16] <mozmck> well ignore me then!
[01:25:36] <mozmck> ok, sounds good
[01:26:43] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: yes, the buildbot builds & runtests & packages uspace debs for 2.7 and newer
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[01:27:42] <cradek> I was going to go check, but I got distracted by a terrible metafilter thread instead
[01:27:43] <seb_kuzminsky> on both vanilla and rt-preempt kernels
[01:27:50] <cradek> thanks for doing all that
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[01:29:16] <seb_kuzminsky> found a picture of cradek:
http://imgur.com/JStNf
[01:29:31] <cradek> yep that's me
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[01:30:16] <cradek> actually today I took the day off work, finished and mailed my taxes AND got the oil changed in the car
[01:30:25] <cradek> I feel like such an adult
[01:31:01] <seb_kuzminsky> http://i.imgur.com/tK0E6.jpg
[01:31:05] <seb_kuzminsky> this meme never stops
[01:31:25] <seb_kuzminsky> oil *and* taxes?! that's like two things! nice work :-)
[01:32:08] <cradek> yes I'm as amazed as you are
[01:32:51] <seb_kuzminsky> i barely managed to go to work and stare blankly at build failures all day
[01:35:39] <seb_kuzminsky> yay, i burned an install image to a usb drive
[01:35:43] <seb_kuzminsky> i deserve an internet break
[01:35:59] <cradek> is that hard?
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[01:43:14] <seb_kuzminsky> no, it's easy, you just open a new tab and type reddit
[01:45:53] <cradek> oh you
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[03:25:11] <cradek> gosh I wish I had arbitrary arcs (want to cut some spherical stuff)
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[03:29:32] <cradek> wait I think I can use planar arcs if only I could do a little math
[03:30:22] <Roguish> hello all. are both base_period and servo_period used in a servo hostmod2 system???
[03:30:50] <cradek> usually a base thread is not needed, but you can do whatever you want
[03:31:27] <Roguish> ok, so the primary thread is the 'servo_thread', yes?
[03:33:04] <Roguish> i've been getting a lot of 'unexpected real time delays.....' and am trying to sort is all out.
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[03:39:21] <pcw_home> Yeah, normally a base thread is just a liability if not absolutely needed
[03:40:24] <Roguish> pcw_home: thanks. won't even put it in. Is ACPI off by default in all these realtime kernel?
[03:40:38] <pcw_home> if you are getting "unexpected real time delays" on a 1 KHz servo thread something is funky
[03:41:36] <pcw_home> I dont think its off as I think its required to power down the computer
[03:44:13] <pcw_home> usually at the minimum you need to turn off all power management in the BIOS
[03:44:19] <Roguish> well, I just figured out how to get the VESA display driver working. not really straightforward.
[03:45:25] <Roguish> I have turned off as much of the power management in the BIOS as possible. Added 'ACPI=OFF' to the kernel line in grub.cfg
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[03:59:17] <mozmck> pcw_home: in your kernel config, did you turn off cpu freq scaling?
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[04:06:04] <pcw_home> Yes
[04:06:22] <pcw_home> Well I think I did
[04:07:33] <mozmck> cpu idle support as well?
[04:07:37] <pcw_home> a couple people noticed Atheros wireless was turned off
[04:08:20] <mozmck> what about the ACPI stuff? I remember from doing this with RTAI that BUTTON was fine and allowed you to turn power off.
[04:09:31] <pcw_home> not sure about idle (i messed with it on the kernel command line and it didn't seem to make much if any difference)
[04:09:56] <mozmck> The ACPI Thermal Zone stuff is HIGHLY recommended it says
[04:10:03] <pcw_home> I dont think the basic acpi stuff is harmfull
[04:10:42] <pcw_home> I know if i run the sensors stuff from the laptop its bad for latency
[04:10:52] <pcw_home> (the utility)
[04:11:10] <mozmck> Ok, I'll leave the defaults and see how it performs. Could be some of it is only bad if you use it (like the sensors stuff)
[04:12:05] <pcw_home> something very bad happens on the laptop if you pull the charger cord...
[04:12:37] <mozmck> Hmm, that could be because of the ACPI AC adapter and/or Battery settings.
[04:13:33] <mozmck> Well, I'm not too worried about laptops right now. Fine for testing but I doubt they are the best for running machines.
[04:13:47] <pcw_home> I didn't try messing further with it, and not sure I want it running full blast on batteries
[04:14:06] <pcw_home> no but handy for demos etc
[04:14:15] <mozmck> true.
[04:14:38] <pcw_home> perhaps testing also
[04:14:59] <mozmck> user space wakeup sources - if I don't let it go to sleep I probably don't need those either
[04:15:40] <pcw_home> No, screen savers are also a likely latency problem
[04:16:41] <mozmck> Yes, I guess it's best to disable them for a control.
[04:16:58] <mozmck> Maybe allow the screen to go blank after a long time or something
[04:17:48] <pcw_home> Yeah you can get burn-in I notice (though it seems to go away after a while)
[04:18:31] <pcw_home> (linuxcnc test computer has screen saver disabled)
[04:18:59] <mozmck> I often set it to blank after an hour, so it's not doing it while I'm working.
[04:21:48] <Roguish> night all. thanks cradek and pcw_home
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[04:22:44] <pcw_home> ack the 7i92 project file is missing from the hostmot2 source
[04:23:29] <mozmck> hmm, I built a bitfile - I guess I used a different one.
[04:23:56] <pcw_home> Hmm looks like I can power the 7I92 from the laptops USB port
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[04:27:44] <mozmck> Were you talking about the hostmot2 firmware project? I used the etherhm2.xise project. I think I had to change the chip and ucf file.
[04:27:53] <pcw_home> Yeah there's a generic Ethernet project file but I have one for the 7I92 with the right FPGA chip and .ucf file bound
[04:31:50] <pcw_home> wasn't sure the laptop USB would work for power without anything to enumerate but it seems fine
[04:31:52] <pcw_home> I guess they need to run those little lights and humping dogs
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[04:35:59] <mozmck> You can charge non-usb stuff with them I know.
[04:36:55] <mozmck> I think you have to pull the D+ line low before the computer even knows something is there.
[04:37:02] <mozmck> Or something like that.
[04:38:17] <pcw_home> not sure, maybe the two wire cable I have does that in the connector
[04:38:33] <mozmck> I think the power is there all the time
[04:42:01] <mozmck> You are supposed to be only able to get 100 mA (IIRC) though unless the device requests more power
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[04:45:22] <pcw_home> It maybe that that only makes a difference if the port has fancy current sense hardware
[04:47:41] <pcw_home> 'nite
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[14:05:44] <seb_kuzminsky> o
[14:06:30] <seb_kuzminsky> morning
[14:09:46] <skunkworks> o
[14:09:47] <skunkworks> morning
[14:09:54] <skunkworks> I know that song
[14:14:58] <seb_kuzminsky> i was singing a different song
[14:15:27] <seb_kuzminsky> o *canada*
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[14:46:43] <skunkworks> PCW, have you seen or used TI lv1023a or lv1224b - seems to be serial lvds..
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[16:33:15] <jepler> andypugh/memfrob: the one thread I've seen about pi2 and preempt-rt is that it freezes, and signs point at USB --
http://mid.gmane.org/3671201425478878%40web10j.yandex.ru
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[16:49:48] <jepler> I did get a pi2 but I didn't use it for anything hard-realtime.
[16:50:10] <jepler> It's running a light alarm clock with a separate microcontroller to do phase control of the lamp
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[18:57:58] <skunkworks> yay peter!
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/263130-hey-stole-pci-cards-35247-pathpilot-upgrade.html
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[19:06:08] <seb_kuzminsky> yep, that's a good problem to have :-)
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[19:29:46] <skunkworks> andypugh, did you see jeplers comments?
[19:33:01] <andypugh> On what and where?
[19:35:58] <skunkworks> andypugh,
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc-devel/2015-03-19.html#11:54:12
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[20:13:16] <Tom_itx> which card is the Tormach using.. the 5I25?
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[20:20:28] <mozmck> seb_kuzminsky: Hopefully I'm getting closer to getting a xubuntu 14.04 set up with a preempt-rt kernel. When I do I would be willing to set up a buildslave for that if you would like.
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[20:21:18] <Roguish> hey all. is there a convenient way to monitor the latency while lcnc is running?
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[20:36:38] <Roguish_shop> ok
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[20:38:04] <Roguish_shop> i keep getting bit by the watchdog
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[20:39:46] <andypugh> Ah. Oh.
[20:40:05] <andypugh> Well, I do see it freezing…
[20:40:26] <andypugh> But put that down to being my fault for kernel-building incompetence
[20:42:27] <skunkworks> Roguish: what hardware?
[20:43:50] <Roguish_shop> an intel D945gclf AND A 5I20
[20:44:28] <skunkworks> what is your servo thread?
[20:44:46] <Roguish_shop> acpi is off in the grub startup. now running the vesa vid driver.
[20:45:35] <Roguish_shop> servo thead is 1,000,000
[20:45:43] <skunkworks> any base thread?
[20:45:47] <Roguish_shop> no
[20:46:16] <skunkworks> what do you get when you run the latency test?
[20:46:25] <skunkworks> and do you run glxgears and such?
[20:47:24] <Roguish_shop> definitely less than 20000. usually around 15000
[20:48:00] <skunkworks> huh.
[20:48:15] <skunkworks> are you running a large classic ladder?
[20:48:32] <Roguish_shop> none
[20:49:02] <skunkworks> you get a watchdog bite - do you get a realtime error also?
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[20:50:08] <Roguish_shop> yes
[20:50:15] <Roguish_shop> task 1
[20:50:54] <skunkworks> how long did you run the latency tests?
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[20:51:42] <Roguish_shop> 1 min, 3 glxgears and other stuff
[20:51:53] <Roguish_shop> sorry 15 min
[20:52:46] <skunkworks> wow - that is a single core atom..
[20:53:12] <skunkworks> I have run linuxcnc on the 330 version of that board - but a long time ago...
[20:53:24] <Roguish_shop> using lastest debian with updated master 2.8.0 pre1 551
[20:54:25] <Roguish_shop> didn'tused to get errors back with ubuntu and 2.5
[20:55:07] <skunkworks> is this rtai?
[20:56:30] <skunkworks> 2 things. You could try idle=poll in the kernel line.. Also - try rt_preempt.. (it is in the debian repository)
[20:57:03] <Roguish_shop> must claim i am not sure. from the hybrid iso
[20:57:33] <memfrob> i think i might have found what's causing such failure in my new dev branch of RTAI. proc / rtdm acts differently (again)
[20:58:47] <memfrob> thankfully linuxcnc removed the proc interfaces, at least for newer kernels
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[21:13:13] <PCW> My experience is that even the dual core atoms are near the edge at a 1 KHz servo thread
[21:13:36] <mozmck> is that with rtai or preempt-rt?
[21:13:40] <mozmck> or both?
[21:15:08] <dgarr> Roguish: a method for measuring latency while running (requires a recent 2.7 checkout (rip or buildbot deb)), it uses the latencybins comp for the latency pin and hal-histogram to display, values are in cpu clocks:
http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/latency_while_running.jpg
[21:15:52] <cradek> there's also a hal pin output from motion that gives time since last run (I think?)
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[21:17:19] <Roguish_shop> i will look into boh of those, pus look or another stronger inexpensive SBC. any suggestions?
[21:17:26] <Roguish_shop> plus
[21:19:27] <Roguish_shop> just finished my current machining project so i have a bit of time.
[21:20:03] <PCW> Both (servo thread jitter is pretty terrible if the servo thread does anything, the latency test does not show this ( since it doesnt "do" anything )
[21:22:36] <PCW> i just ran the latency-histogram ( thanks dgarr! ) on a dual core 1.6 GHz atom and its about 50 usec peak latency doing nothing (dispatch latency only)
[21:22:44] <PCW> (RTAI)
[21:23:20] <PCW> The J1800/1900s are pretty good
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[21:23:25] <Roguish_shop> is that good or sucky
[21:23:39] <PCW> pretty sucky
[21:24:34] <PCW> probably OK for Mesa hardware with simple hal files but thats about it
[21:25:10] <Tom_itx> yep, i'm thinking about getting another J1900 ASRock
[21:25:22] <Tom_itx> probably a mini itx this time
[21:25:59] <Tom_itx> they're cheaper than the atoms were at the time
[21:26:03] <Roguish_shop> newegg asrock j1900 $75.99
[21:26:09] <Tom_itx> 679
[21:26:11] <Tom_itx> 69
[21:26:24] <Tom_itx> or 59 with 10 rebate now
[21:26:33] <Tom_itx> depending on which one you get
[21:27:46] <Roguish_shop> ECS brand at $55. any particular reason for ASROCK?
[21:27:46] <Tom_itx> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/263130-hey-stole-pci-cards-35247-pathpilot-upgrade.html
[21:28:01] <Tom_itx> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/263130-hey-stole-pci-cards-35247-pathpilot-upgrade.html
[21:28:12] <Tom_itx> it's what PCW suggested :D
[21:28:48] <PCW> I dont have a ECS is all, might be fine
[21:28:50] <Tom_itx> i got the Q1900B and am thinking about getting the Q1900M
[21:29:05] <cradek> > The flash doesn't matter because PP flashes it's own firmware when you start it.
[21:29:08] <cradek> orly?
[21:29:10] <Tom_itx> err vise versa
[21:30:04] <Roguish_shop> PCW: guess u r the leader of the pack.....
[21:30:14] <Tom_itx> fearless
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[21:32:52] <jepler> hope the endurance of the 5i20's flash is high then
[21:32:57] <jepler> er whichever one it is
[21:36:55] <mozmck> maybe it checks to see what is there first?
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[21:47:19] <Roguish> how about an Intel D2500HN, dual core
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[21:52:00] <dgarr> PCW: fyi some results for an older HP7800 SFF (ebay jun14): screenshots for preempt-rt 3.2 and 3.18 with/without isolcpus:
http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/7800/
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[22:35:53] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 052.6 627bb49 06linuxcnc 10configs/sim/axis/xhc-hb04/README 10configs/sim/axis/xhc-hb04/xhc-hb04.tcl xhc-hb04 sim configs: typo fix * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=627bb49
[22:36:45] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 052.7 33bad26 06linuxcnc 10configs/sim/axis/xhc-hb04/README 03lib/hallib/xhc-hb04.tcl Merge branch '2.6' into 2.7 * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=33bad26
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[22:50:40] <PCW> dgarr: strange, wonder what the difference is ( vs freeby.mesanet.com/7800sff.png, other than slightly different CPU )
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[22:52:05] <wholepair> I have setup 2 steppers in a H-Frame config and am using core-xy to drive it. How do I get jog mode to command movement in cartesian using kinematics instead of joint mode?
[22:52:08] <PCW> I think(and hope) they only flash it at install time
[22:52:26] <wholepair> TELEOP?
[22:52:40] <cradek> wholepair: yeah you have to switch to world/teleop mode
[22:52:54] <cradek> assuming your kins are right that'll do it
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[22:54:08] <wholepair> cradek: when I run a program it looks right - and when I jog it shows diagnals for motion along a single axis which makes sense for a H-Frame - I am currently just testing with motors in free space -
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[22:55:36] <wholepair> cradek: so for TELEOP do I put that in my HAL file, INI file, or run a hal command while running the machine. I have never used linuxcnc at the level and these things are new to me -
[22:55:54] <cradek> wholepair: usually you'd just poke $
[22:56:06] <cradek> switching between world and joint mode is on a menu
[22:57:19] <andypugh> Those RPi guys are no help…
[22:57:38] <cradek> andypugh: your battle sure seems uphill with that thing
[22:58:38] <andypugh> Would #include <linux/netfilter_ipv4/….> look in include/linux/netfilter_ipv4 in a typical kernel build of a git repo?
[22:59:12] <cradek> sorry I have no idea
[22:59:32] <seb_kuzminsky> wholepair: you said you're using core-xy to drive your machine, is that something you wrote?
[22:59:38] <andypugh> cradek: No worse than all my previous failures at building kernels for x86, Udoo, or anything else for that matter.
[23:00:22] <andypugh> I just assume that building kernels is nearly imposible, and I have so far not been disappointed.
[23:00:28] <cradek> yeah.
[23:00:42] <wholepair> seb_kuzminsky: no I got it from
http://www.cnc-club.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=8251&sid=c6c9d08011061a1f26c3cb47458d65d2
[23:01:10] <seb_kuzminsky> neat!
[23:02:07] <seb_kuzminsky> if you have a working kins+config, i'd love to include it in linuxcnc as a sample config
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[23:02:35] <cradek> yes!
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[23:02:41] <seb_kuzminsky> there's a guy at my local hackspace who's working on an H robot, this would help him out
[23:02:42] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 052.7 4daf65b 06linuxcnc 10lib/hallib/xhc-hb04.tcl xhc-hb04.tcl: err_exit for missing inifile stanzas * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=4daf65b
[23:03:50] <wholepair> I am still looking for the menu switch to change between world and joint - it's not on the axis gui - I think I missunderstood
[23:03:52] <cradek> how do you home yours?
[23:04:19] <cradek> oh it doesn't exist yet, right :-)
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[23:04:36] <wholepair> cradek: right :-) spinning in free space now -
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[23:07:12] <wholepair> I found it -
[23:09:57] <wholepair> cradek: poke$ - I get it now - thanks I am sure I will be back when I start working on the homing
[23:12:43] <seb_kuzminsky> cool
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[23:16:36] <wholepair> the latest videos from pocketnc using fusion360 to cut a duck call are pretty sweet - anyone seen them?
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[23:33:41] <andypugh> cradek: I am just exploring the possibility that this is a really strange problem related to the fact that my git repo is actually on my Mac.
[23:37:43] <mozmck> so is there a way to test latency with preempt-rt without some hardware to talk to?
[23:38:24] <memfrob> latency-test talks to the APIC timer, if that counts as hardware
[23:41:03] <mozmck> I need to test this on a different computer I think. The nvidia driver won't install with preemt-rt, so it booted with vesa which does not have glx it says.
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[23:42:33] <mozmck> zlog
[23:42:33] <zlog> mozmck: Log stored at
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc-devel/2015-03-19.html
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[23:45:29] <mozmck> Is there an example for using the latency pin and hal histogram that dgarr mentioned? I'm also not sure I understand the output.
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[23:47:10] <dgarr> mozmck: see the halcmd example in the image:
http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/latency_while_running.jpg
[23:48:30] <mozmck> oh, I missed that - thanks.
[23:49:02] <mozmck> What do the numbers on the left mean? I'm not familiar with reading histograms.
[23:51:47] <dgarr> the latencybins comp latency pin is (now - last_timer - period), the histogram horizontal axis are bins for the values of the input, the vertical axis is in counts, so the latency (jitter) mean is zero and the 'width' is measured by the standard deviation (in simplest terms), the min and max values in the observation interval are shown too
[23:53:07] <dgarr> the wikipedia page for histograms may be helpful
[23:55:21] <dgarr> hal-histogram is very recent (hal-histogram --help for options) it may be useful for looking at distribution of a hal component's calculation time (.time pin) for example
