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[00:43:16] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.6 07a502b 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py axis gui: rename joint_mode to teleop_mode * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=07a502b
[00:43:16] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.6 1e55ddf 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py axis gui: fix teleop jog speeds * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=1e55ddf
[00:43:16] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.6 98556aa 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py axis gui: fix jog speed in Free mode * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=98556aa
[00:43:27] <KGB-linuxcnc> 05seb/2.6/axis-jog-speed 48ee6b0 06linuxcnc 04. branch deleted * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=48ee6b0
[00:44:10] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.7 4c2ec15 06linuxcnc 10src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/2.6' into 2.7 * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=4c2ec15
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[01:37:18] <wortley> I have a question about updates to the state data structure and when those would get shared with another component. Specifically, if I set a bit in one component in the servo thread, and it get's pre-empted by something int the base thread, will that bit have been published and passed through the net as input to all of the base thread functions yet? When does the data passing occur?
[01:39:01] <wortley> I could see an architecture where that data passing is handled in a base thread creature explicitly before passing control to the base thread kids, and the bit data gets published. I could also see an architecture where that is the last thing that happens after a component exits.
[01:39:14] <wortley> Which is PROBABLY the easier thing to do.
[01:39:51] <wortley> Which could be great too -- because that means that if I update pins within a function they could all come out as a snapshot.
[01:40:25] <wortley> Anyone know how that works?
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[01:47:51] <micges> pins are pointers and hal read/write are atomic operations so after write in one component it will be available to all component using it, in all threads
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[01:49:28] <cradek> I agree with micges's answer, but I'm not sure I understood all of your question
[01:50:02] <wortley> The variable does not live in the component then? How does directionality get enforced? When hal parses the file to tie the pointers together?
[01:50:04] <cradek> there is no "published" step because all the pins just point to the same place in shared memory. as soon as the write is done, it's available everywhere to be read
[01:50:22] <wortley> Ok -- That's good.
[01:50:53] <wortley> So if I write a "lock" pin, the pre-empting function will know it right away.
[01:51:26] <cradek> yes a faster thread can interrupt a slower one, and if they have pins netted together it will see the latest state immediately
[01:53:31] <wortley> So that is why the __comp_state struct contain pointer...
[01:54:15] <wortley> or contains pointers, as people with english as their first language would say :)
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[01:56:00] <wortley> Is it safe to leave out all the #undef TRUE junk?
[01:56:16] <cradek> ??
[01:57:18] <wortley> The component generator has some #defines that remove all possible definitins of TRUE true FALSE and false so they are guarunteed to be 1 and 0 respectively.
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[02:06:16] <PCW> 3.18.7-rt1 seems quite a bit better than Wheezy stock 3.2 preemt-rt :-)
[02:06:18] <PCW> at least after 3 hours of youtube videos+kernel compiling I cant trip up hm2_eth at 4KHz
[02:08:25] <PCW> also learned there are 9 hour youtube videos
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[02:19:42] <mozmck> very nice!
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[02:27:44] <wortley> Is servo thread pre-emption really very common? It seems that since it executes rarely (in comparison to base thread), that execution might be something like 50 passes through the base thread, and then 1 pass through the servo thread.
[02:28:21] <wortley> If the servo thread is really big, it could take a few base thread passes.. Is that true?
[02:28:56] <wortley> I'm just trying to make sure that if I lock a data structure in my base thread, it isn't locked for more than a pass or two, not a full millisecond.
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[02:30:38] <wortley> of if I lock it in the servo thread that 50 base thread passes don't have to wait another ms for it to complete .... Sorry for thinking aloud.
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[02:41:00] <wortley> Is there a directive I can put into my hal code for a component that can prevent a sensitive block of it from being pre-empted? Like some sort of RT_API_LET_ME_FINISH. and then RT_API_AS_YOU_WERE?
[02:41:42] <wortley> It would sure save passing around a lot of locks.
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[03:05:42] <seb_kuzminsky> wortley: no, slower threads can not block quicker threads from pre-empting them
[03:05:58] <seb_kuzminsky> if they could, it would mess up (for example) step generation, which happens in the base thread
[03:07:35] <seb_kuzminsky> PCW: that's great news about the new rt-preempt kernel
[03:08:05] <seb_kuzminsky> i'd be really excited if debian (or someone) was still publishing debs for it
[03:33:45] <pcw_home> trivial to make though
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[03:48:15] <cradek> your questions make me wonder whether you've chosen the right way to split your task into multiple threads, including whether it should be split at all
[03:48:50] <cradek> perhaps explaining more about what you are trying to do would help us think about better answers
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[04:11:59] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.7 7a6ff9e 06linuxcnc 10VERSION 10debian/changelog LinuxCNC 2.7.0~pre3 * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=7a6ff9e
[04:12:00] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05signed tags 41cc1b7 06linuxcnc 03v2.7.0-pre3 LinuxCNC v2.7.0-pre3 (tagged commit: 7a6ff9e) * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=41cc1b7
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[04:44:57] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 052.6 2e1b358 06linuxcnc 10VERSION 10debian/changelog LinuxCNC 2.6.6 * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=2e1b358
[04:44:58] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Sebastian Kuzminsky 05signed tags 21fd88d 06linuxcnc 03v2.6.6 LinuxCNC v2.6.6 (tagged commit: 2e1b358) * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=21fd88d
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[11:19:03] <skunkworks> Yay!?
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[12:00:42] <micges> quite a list in 2.7.0 pre
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[14:49:54] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, lots of new stuff in 2.7!
[14:50:53] <seb_kuzminsky> not much happened in 2.6, i guess that's good
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[14:56:31] * skunkworks pulls 2.7
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[15:16:12] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros looks really awesome
[15:17:21] <skunkworks> I have been meaning to try it...
[15:17:54] <cradek> I have a lathe project to do, but my lathe hasn't run for YEARS, so I'm nervous about what I'm going to find
[15:18:12] <cradek> the mill seems to get run every few months
[15:19:55] <ssi> your hnc?
[15:19:59] <ssi> mine hasn't run in years either :/
[15:20:03] <cradek> yeah
[15:20:14] <cradek> I bet the turret will be very sticky
[15:20:15] <ssi> I had the pneumatic problem in the turret, and it sat for 2 years, then I fixed that but didn't shakeout the rest of it
[15:20:23] <ssi> then the house fire, and moving the lathe, and it hasn't been set back up
[15:22:02] <ssi> also the seal in the turret crumbled to dust, and I bought a new one, but I'm not sure if it made it into the machine before the fire :/
[15:22:07] <ssi> that seal is EXPENSIVE
[15:22:28] <skunkworks> what do I get if I checkout 2.7?
[15:23:49] <skunkworks> vs checking out v2.7pre3
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[15:24:23] <micges> same thing
[15:24:38] <skunkworks> oh - ok
[15:26:28] <skunkworks> when I checkout v2.7pre3 it tells me I am detached.
[15:26:42] <skunkworks> (so I was hoping I could checkout just 2.7)
[15:32:46] <PetefromTn_> That Lathe Macro Andy built is indeed awesome looking I HOPE it gets further development and that I can use it on my CNC lathe once it comes online. Kudos to Andy and all those who have worked on it.
[15:38:38] <ssi> yeah I want to play with it too
[15:42:22] <mozmck> skunkworks: checking out 2.7 will give you 2.7pre3 - and any new commits made since 2.7pre3
[15:42:43] <mozmck> which, as of now, there are none.
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[15:52:00] <kwallace> I hope you all don't mind me posting this reminder of the webinar today at 11:00 Central. I don't know how webinars work, but rumor is that there are 100 seats so one may need to register in order to watch it.
https://tormach.clickwebinar.com/PathPilot_Webinar__1/register (Please read the page before submitting)
[15:53:50] <cradek> I don't mind, but is it ok if I snark about webinars in general?
[15:54:02] <cradek> "seats"
[15:54:27] <kwallace> That's my term
[15:56:09] <cradek> whatever it is, I hope there's a transcript afterward that people can read at times that are not 11:00 central
[15:58:12] <kwallace> I don't know. There are two more webinars scheduled. Having to submit my e-mail address raised a flag, but I don't know how to avoid it anymore, just like cookies.
[15:58:50] <cradek> yeah: you submit your information to the webinar organizer, who will use it to communicate with you regarding ... their other services
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[16:10:33] <PetefromTn_> There's always a catch...
[16:11:23] <kwallace> Yeah, I would have preferred they say due to the technology we can't serve more than 100 streams. Drop in if a seat is open, leave your e-mail if you want us to contact you with our news and information -- we think our products are worth knowing about.
[16:12:04] <PetefromTn_> that'd get my participation..
[16:16:22] <ssi> transparency is a useful tool :)
[16:17:05] <ssi> I'm working on writing a social network framework which uses strong client-side encryption, and I'm starting to design the user interface for the process of creating keys and identities
[16:17:27] <ssi> and I have in mind a lot of very clear, step by step language about what it's doing and why, and why it's good for your privacy
[16:17:49] <ssi> settings for what's visible vs what's encrypted for only friends to see, and what the potential privacy impacts of the user's choices are
[16:22:53] <mozmck> my preferred social networking framework, is to be in the same vicinity with someone and talk to them using sound waves :)
[16:23:05] <mozmck> old school, I know.
[16:23:17] <ssi> sounds horribly insecure :D
[16:23:34] <mozmck> heh, depends on the location I guess :)
[16:25:56] <kwallace> I suppose audio could be encrypted as well as data. Dolby comes to mind, but for a different purpose.
[16:26:18] <PetefromTn_> sound waves....classic!
[16:27:43] <ssi> audio can be encrypted but it's hard to do across the transport layer mozmck is using :D
[16:28:41] <kwallace> I once saw a youtube video where someone rubbed two sticks of wood (what's that?) together to make fire.
[16:29:28] <PetefromTn_> you mean I don't need my bic?
[16:29:30] <cradek> kwallace: well I would have preferred a video on youtube, or better yet, a textual press release type thing on a web page
[16:30:15] <cradek> kwallace: but I guess I have never seen a webinar. maybe it's useful.
[16:30:26] <skunkworks> 'Are you sure you want to exit' should be an ini setting.. ;)
[16:30:32] <mozmck> you can ask questions.
[16:30:41] <mozmck> skunkworks: I agree!
[16:30:48] <archivist> some webinars are unidirectional
[16:30:50] <PetefromTn_> all I want to know is are the seats full?
[16:32:35] <PetefromTn_> achivist so you mean they talk AT you....
[16:33:06] <kwallace> Maybe you could register and let us know.
[16:33:20] <PetefromTn_> I thought you were gonna do that?
[16:33:24] <cradek> we could hire a transcriptionist
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[16:33:42] <PetefromTn_> hehe you first man I dare ya!
[16:34:06] <cradek> or ask rms to fire up his orbital mind-control lasers
[16:34:26] <mozmck> archivist: "...software tour and Q&A session with the PathPilot™ "
[16:34:30] <PetefromTn_> are those LinuxCNC controlled lasers?
[16:34:53] <skunkworks> PetefromTn_, the upgrade tormach is selling seems to be just for the price of the interface card... (they are not really selling the software it seems)
[16:34:58] <mozmck> I have often seen people make the webinars available as a video afterwards.
[16:35:11] <cradek> that would be great
[16:35:34] <PetefromTn_> skunkworks I have to agree I got the same impression but we will see how forthcoming they are soon I suppose.
[16:35:48] <skunkworks> Sure - it is murkey at best
[16:35:59] <archivist> some have the questions on an IRC like thing on the side of the video
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[16:36:25] <mozmck> Yes, I've been on one like that.
[16:36:26] <PetefromTn_> they sell a complete control computer and have for awhile with the current system on it but that is another story I suppose
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[16:38:44] <PetefromTn_> so its on in what 20 minutes or so... where's the central time zone LOL.....
[16:38:56] <cradek> it's 10:38am in central
[16:39:47] <skunkworks> no no - it is 10:39 central
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[16:41:01] <skunkworks> now we are both wrong.. :(
[16:41:11] <PetefromTn_> :D
[16:41:31] <cradek> skunkworks: have you been drinking?
[16:41:37] <skunkworks> I widh
[16:41:46] <skunkworks> heh - wish
[16:42:31] <PetefromTn_> I already get tormach E newsletters and stuff from them since buying some TTS stuff etc I wonder if I would be immune...
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[16:46:30] <kwallace> Selling LinuxCNC controllers reminds me, when Pete mentioned dealing with smaller OEMs, I did a search on eBay for LinuxCNC and found:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141332268070 , then found it linked to archivist? I hope it's working out if that's the case.
[16:47:32] <archivist> er wot?
[16:47:38] <kwallace> Ah, there is a link to MGware.
[16:48:29] <archivist> nothing to do with me at all
[16:48:42] <cradek> sometimes people talk about these on the forum, and they sound like a bit of a pain
[16:49:00] <cradek> they are picky about their CF cards or something
[16:49:16] <archivist> hehe
http://www.mgware.co.uk/CNC/
[16:49:35] <PetefromTn_> is that your page archivist?
[16:49:51] <archivist> no
[16:49:53] <kwallace> archivist, sorry about that.
[16:51:33] <kwallace> The site looks familiar, but can't place it.
[16:52:06] <archivist> I remember someone linking to it a while ago
[16:54:03] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/histo 424a450 06linuxcnc 10(9 files in 6 dirs) hal-histogram: histogram util for s32,float pins * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=424a450
[16:56:55] <seb_kuzminsky> skunkworks, mozmck: do you mean the "confirm quit" dialog when you close the axis window?
[16:57:05] <skunkworks> yes
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[16:57:47] <skunkworks> (not really a big deal.. (I don't think I have ever miss clicked a close...)
[16:57:59] <seb_kuzminsky> me neither
[16:59:00] <seb_kuzminsky> but it has a kind of symmetry with how we gray out File->Quite while a program is running, maybe?
[16:59:09] <seb_kuzminsky> *Qiut
[16:59:12] <seb_kuzminsky> *quit
[16:59:15] <seb_kuzminsky> i give up
[16:59:37] <cradek> quite quitter
[17:00:01] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm in the Path (tm) Pilot(R) WebInar(c)
[17:00:07] <cradek> yay
[17:00:11] <seb_kuzminsky> want me to transcribe the salient points here or in a dedicated channel?
[17:00:57] <PetefromTn_> awesome..
[17:01:08] <seb_kuzminsky> kwallace and rob ellenberg are credited as being on the dev team
[17:01:10] <PetefromTn_> give it all to us man we need the details!!
[17:01:41] <archivist> no more hiding for kwallace :)
[17:01:43] <seb_kuzminsky> and some other folks, john prentice, dan rogge, etc
[17:01:53] <PetefromTn_> is it started already?
[17:01:59] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah, just started
[17:02:02] <cradek> make a wiki page
[17:02:14] <PetefromTn_> make sure you record the video...
[17:02:15] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: here you go: zlog
[17:03:04] -!- md-2 has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
[17:03:13] <cradek> ?
[17:03:32] <seb_kuzminsky> zlog:
[17:03:32] <zlog> seb_kuzminsky: Log stored at
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc-devel/2015-02-19.html
[17:04:11] <seb_kuzminsky> PathPilot is a combination of PC hardware and some software
[17:04:14] <seb_kuzminsky> runs on RTAI
[17:04:40] <seb_kuzminsky> hardware signal generation, improved interpreter, improved TP, new GUI (compared to mach3)
[17:05:04] <seb_kuzminsky> "complete redesign of the GUI"
[17:05:54] <seb_kuzminsky> has a real-time linux kernel, motion control takes priority over things like USB enumeration, network activity, screen refresh (tool path rendeding), sound, etc
[17:09:45] <seb_kuzminsky> old controller used software stepping, PalmPilot uses an FPGA card (33.3 MHz), ~30 nS step jitter
[17:09:53] <mozmck> he mentioned mesa!
[17:09:56] <seb_kuzminsky> he confirms the FPGA card is from Mesa Electronics
[17:10:07] <PetefromTn_> Palm Pilot? HEhehe
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[17:10:35] <seb_kuzminsky> improved gcode interpreter: cutter comp, subroutines with conditionals, warnings on invalid g-code, arc radius errors (heh)
[17:10:51] <seb_kuzminsky> shows a picture of a messed up part (?)
[17:11:05] <seb_kuzminsky> "old software would accept invalid gcode"
[17:11:12] <PetefromTn_> I should have registered...
[17:11:52] <seb_kuzminsky> "you hand-coders out there know" about the arc radius problems in mach3, heh
[17:12:01] <seb_kuzminsky> (they're having audio problems)
[17:12:55] <seb_kuzminsky> he keeps praising the PP interpreter for rejecting invalid gcode
[17:13:19] <seb_kuzminsky> new tp, "stop, pause, feed rate and spindle override are instantaneous"
[17:13:36] <seb_kuzminsky> new tp, "blending takes a tolerance value (= more accurate parts)"
[17:14:11] <seb_kuzminsky> (does mach really not honor pause & stop immediately? -seb)
[17:14:26] <seb_kuzminsky> new tp, faster program execution than old
[17:15:03] <pcw_home> I've seem compliants about feed hold being too slow on Mach
[17:15:23] <mozmck> Feed hold runs to the end of the current line in Mach
[17:15:29] <cradek> eeee
[17:15:55] <seb_kuzminsky> he's showing a youtube video of PP vs Mach running a gcode with helical arcs
[17:15:57] <mozmck> If using a SmoothStepper you can have the SS do it in hardware.
[17:16:26] <cradek> does mach not have helixes?
[17:16:37] <seb_kuzminsky> oh god, mach does terribly on this program
[17:16:48] <seb_kuzminsky> it seemed to do a helix, just slowly
[17:17:11] <seb_kuzminsky> on to the new gui part
[17:17:38] <seb_kuzminsky> conversational screens written by/supported by Tormach (=kwallace?)
[17:17:43] <seb_kuzminsky> they really look nice
[17:18:20] <linuxcnc-build> build #806 of 1401.rip-wheezy-rtai-i386 is complete: Failure [4failed compile runtests] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/1401.rip-wheezy-rtai-i386/builds/806 blamelist: dummy, Dewey Garrett <dgarrett@panix.com>
[17:18:27] <PetefromTn_> whats PP I shudder to ask
[17:18:30] <seb_kuzminsky> tool table editor with their tool measuring hardware
[17:18:51] <mozmck> PP = parallel port
[17:18:56] <seb_kuzminsky> PP=PathPilot
[17:19:04] <mozmck> oops!
[17:19:16] <PetefromTn_> OK thanks
[17:19:20] <seb_kuzminsky> they have a gui probing screen
[17:19:29] <seb_kuzminsky> with another youtube video, links to come later
[17:20:14] <kwallace> Yes I did the most of the conversational UI bits.
[17:20:21] <mozmck> He did mention Kirk Wallace
[17:20:35] <seb_kuzminsky> they look really nice, kwallace
[17:20:42] <mozmck> quite nice.
[17:20:43] <kwallace> Thank you.
[17:20:49] <seb_kuzminsky> now a page about gremlin
[17:21:29] <kwallace> I found probing really handy.
[17:21:54] <seb_kuzminsky> now the main GUI, looks fairly axis-like
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[17:24:47] <seb_kuzminsky> lost the network here at the cafe :-(
[17:25:07] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Francis Tisserant 05seb/master/po4a c9c972e 06linuxcnc 10(6 files in 2 dirs) French doc adaptation to po4a * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=c9c972e
[17:25:27] <seb_kuzminsky> ok its back
[17:25:38] <mozmck> Someone asked and Andy Grevstad said they will make the videos available online afterwards.
[17:25:45] <seb_kuzminsky> uh, i missed like 3 or 4 minutes
[17:25:59] <seb_kuzminsky> PP is based on "NIST, Machinekit, LinuxCNC"
[17:26:09] <seb_kuzminsky> Tormach can now fix bugs, which they couldn't before
[17:26:25] <seb_kuzminsky> "We share improvements we make with the open source community"
[17:27:21] <seb_kuzminsky> they give a shout out to the open source community
[17:27:40] <seb_kuzminsky> "when they do work we can bring that to you, the customer, at a lower cost than if we did it ourselves"
[17:28:29] <seb_kuzminsky> "not everything we write in our software is wanted by linuxcnc, but we do try to give it back"
[17:28:56] <seb_kuzminsky> downsides of PP vs mach: harder to customize
[17:29:17] <seb_kuzminsky> ah, the webinar is being recorded & will be published later
[17:29:52] <pcw_home> kwallace: great work on the conversational
[17:30:06] <kwallace> Thank you.
[17:30:11] <seb_kuzminsky> they say they'll give away the install dvd for free for a limited time
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[17:30:51] <seb_kuzminsky> the hardware kit (FPGA board) costs $95-$115
[17:31:48] <linuxcnc-build> build #3000 of 0000.checkin is complete: Failure [4failed] Build details are at
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/buildbot/builders/0000.checkin/builds/3000 blamelist: dummy, Dewey Garrett <dgarrett@panix.com>
[17:32:30] <seb_kuzminsky> being able to support the software themselves is a big point for them, no more relying on third parties to fix bugs & add features
[17:32:45] <seb_kuzminsky> ooh, a thanks page!
[17:33:11] <seb_kuzminsky> sam sokolik, michael haberler, charles steinkueller, john morris
[17:33:38] <seb_kuzminsky> chris radek, seb, jepler, andy pugh, john k, NIST, "many many others"
[17:35:04] <seb_kuzminsky> presentation is over, on to Q&A
[17:35:18] <seb_kuzminsky> they plan to distribute updates via USB sticks
[17:35:30] <skunkworks> can I use my mach screens on pathpilot?
[17:35:35] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[17:35:40] <skunkworks> (sorry)
[17:35:51] <kwallace> Is there an indication of how many seats are filled?
[17:36:00] <seb_kuzminsky> kwallace: not to me
[17:36:09] <micges> skunkworks: yes, you can't
[17:36:10] <seb_kuzminsky> their tool changer and jog pendant are supported
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[17:36:53] <pcw_home> hardware kits are $85 or $95 (less than our Q1 price which is great)
[17:37:03] <skunkworks> sounds like the only thing that they are not going to support is the scanner.. (camera mounted in the spindle to make high resolution scans)
[17:37:14] <skunkworks> from what I Have heard
[17:37:45] <seb_kuzminsky> arh, super lag here
[17:38:06] <kwallace> For a Machish UI, tools could be gEdit, GIMP, Glade, Python.
[17:39:57] <seb_kuzminsky> "updates are via usb stick, not network", but maybe in the future they'll add network updates
[17:40:32] <seb_kuzminsky> networking is supported on the controller
[17:40:59] <skunkworks> you where supposed to disable networking on the mach machine.. (may cause issues with step timing)
[17:41:12] <seb_kuzminsky> huh
[17:42:16] <skunkworks> interesting read from tormach
http://www.tormach.com/engineering_tmc.html
[17:42:23] <seb_kuzminsky> heh, "does it have jwp with tool change"?
[17:43:20] <skunkworks> well - does it?
[17:43:23] <skunkworks> :)
[17:43:42] <kwallace> jwp ?
[17:43:48] <seb_kuzminsky> jog-while-paused
[17:43:51] <skunkworks> jog while paused
[17:44:04] <seb_kuzminsky> no it does not
[17:44:14] <kwallace> You know I haven't tried it.
[17:44:14] <seb_kuzminsky> "but run-from-here works quite well"
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[17:44:19] <skunkworks> one of the last mach features that everyone wants for some reason
[17:44:39] <seb_kuzminsky> it has cutter comp "with small corrections to nominal diameter"
[17:45:02] <skunkworks> wear adjustment?
[17:45:39] <seb_kuzminsky> i guess so, yeah
[17:45:46] <kwallace> The running code highlighting is interesting to watch. Two lines - current and next, or similar.
[17:45:51] <PetefromTn_> I have never had a problem with run from here on linuxCNC....Mach was a different story
[17:47:31] <seb_kuzminsky> they don't support running PP on an offline machine for simulation
[17:47:50] <skunkworks> I saw that question asked...
[17:47:58] <skunkworks> on cnczone
[17:48:34] <kwallace> My guess is that sim could be fixed.
[17:49:05] <seb_kuzminsky> they use the 5i25 or 6i25
[17:49:33] <seb_kuzminsky> they praise it and suggest non-tormach-customers should buy mesa hardware and run it with linuxcnc or machinekit
[17:50:03] <seb_kuzminsky> you can get the install dvd on their website, just add it to your cart, it may be $10 or free, he doesnt know
[17:50:27] <PetefromTn_> this is presuming you already bought a Tormach machine or what?
[17:50:37] <seb_kuzminsky> he also offered to send me a copy of the source code under GPL, not bad, i didnt even ask about that
[17:50:50] <seb_kuzminsky> PetefromTn_: i dont think so
[17:51:49] <seb_kuzminsky> hm, i dont see PP on their webs tore thingy
[17:52:31] <mozmck> http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=PATHPILOT-BETA
[17:52:42] <seb_kuzminsky> ah, yep, i see it
[17:52:50] <seb_kuzminsky> $7.68, BETA software only
[17:53:21] <seb_kuzminsky> "is PP based on LinuxCNC or MK? Which version?"
[17:53:42] <seb_kuzminsky> A: it was originally based on linuxcnc, with some things merged in form MK
[17:53:48] <PetefromTn_> so this is the fully functional software package available to ANYONE regardless if they have a Tormach or not?
[17:54:21] <seb_kuzminsky> he offers to have a relaxed offline conversation about the "family tree" of the software
[17:54:44] <skunkworks> that is good...
[17:54:46] <seb_kuzminsky> PetefromTn_: looks like it, you can buy the install DVD for $7.68 from their webstore apparently
[17:55:43] <seb_kuzminsky> at the link mozmck pasted above
[17:55:44] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to do so now.. wonder if I can use payapl heh
[17:56:15] <skunkworks> the configs are going to be setup to their machine.. I don't know how configurable it is...
[17:56:18] <seb_kuzminsky> they discourage customization by customers, to make the support load sane
[17:56:35] <PetefromTn_> I assumed it would be
[17:56:48] <seb_kuzminsky> sure
[17:56:50] <PetefromTn_> but actually it is supposed to work on their mill or lathe
[17:57:09] <seb_kuzminsky> uh oh, they compare PP to the tivo software, it's based on linux but restricted
[17:57:10] <PetefromTn_> so there has to be SOME configurability I would imagine...
[17:57:34] <seb_kuzminsky> PetefromTn_: i bet they have something like our standard config picker, with a config for each machine they sell/support
[17:58:00] <kwallace> Yes.
[17:58:35] <PetefromTn_> so it may be unusable then
[17:58:37] <seb_kuzminsky> how will they handle bug reporting & tracking? email tormach to report bugs, they'll publish release notes on new versions
[17:58:47] <seb_kuzminsky> they will have a "web portal" for bug reporting
[17:58:55] <skunkworks> wow
[17:59:20] <seb_kuzminsky> something like our sf bugtracker, one assumes
[17:59:31] <mozmck> touch screens are not as reliable, so no jogging from touch screen
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[18:01:03] <seb_kuzminsky> they are working with Autodesk to make a post for HSM Works
[18:01:27] <PetefromTn_> thats a smart move...
[18:06:11] <skunkworks> There where atleast 2 times that they tried to push some mods into linuxcnc and they where removed.. (because they where considered no the right way to do things.. ie fanuc style lathe tool calling..) So I think they gave up and went internal.
[18:06:20] <seb_kuzminsky> "can you load NC files via LAN?" no, but you can copy files across the network to the PP machine
[18:06:53] <skunkworks> I don't think they allow you to change directories..
[18:07:25] <seb_kuzminsky> draft manual will be available for download next week
[18:07:32] <skunkworks> from what I have seen. Otherwise- I don't see a problem running a file off the network (I think that is how stuart has his shop setup)
[18:07:44] <kwallace> Directories in and below ~/gode work fine.
[18:07:52] <kwallace> gcode
[18:08:05] <skunkworks> symlink!
[18:08:20] <kwallace> Sure.
[18:11:02] <kwallace> I'm not sure it applies, but there is an edit button which invokes gedit, then I make changes and save, PPi sees the change and offers to reload. I leave gedit open and tweak as I go.
[18:13:02] <seb_kuzminsky> it's a wrap
[18:13:04] <seb_kuzminsky> see y'all later
[18:13:14] <kwallace> Thank you Seb
[18:13:19] <skunkworks> Thanks!
[18:13:41] <PetefromTn_> thanks Seb!
[18:14:02] <PetefromTn_> kwallace are you saying that you can open the software and make edit changes to it this way to access the config?
[18:17:51] <kwallace> No, but you can manually edit the .ini and .hal files to convert the configuration to your own machine, just like integrating LinuxCNC/AXIS to a machine. It would likely be big job.
[18:18:10] <PetefromTn_> what makes you say that
[18:20:18] <kwallace> Not having a 5i25 plus having it wired with the same pin functions can be tedious to convert. One could duplicate the hardware to save on work.
[18:20:59] <PetefromTn_> I have a 5i25
[18:21:23] <kwallace> I'm hoping to find some free time to try converting my HNC lathe.
[18:21:41] <PetefromTn_> it is really unfortunate that linuxCNC does not have these new functions added to it.
[18:21:57] <PetefromTn_> nice I would like to get an HNC
[18:24:23] <ssi> PetefromTn_: they're out there, and they're cheap
[18:24:30] <kwallace> There was or is a CHNC for $1500 on eBay.
[18:24:54] <kwallace> There are some for over $10k too.
[18:25:43] <PetefromTn_> Oh I know...
[18:26:31] <PetefromTn_> I would really like to add this new functionality and GUI to my machines somehow.
[18:27:30] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ which functions?
[18:28:51] <PetefromTn_> the nice conversational stuff and more polished GUI.
[18:31:29] <seb_kuzminsky> i'd like to get the conversational stuff in, but i dont mind the axis gui
[18:31:59] <seb_kuzminsky> we have the ngcgui framework..
[18:33:05] <PetefromTn_> honestly their axis GUI layout is pretty nice and I like the way you access the settings for the conversational pages. it at least from videos I have seen is pretty impressive.
[18:34:31] <seb_kuzminsky> it's the same as how you acces the ngcgui stuff in our axis gui: with tabs
[18:34:48] <seb_kuzminsky> except they put their tabs on the bottom of the pane they control instead of the top like most people do it
[18:36:26] <kwallace> I bottom my tabs whenever I install Ubuntu. Wheezy doesn't seem to let me.
[18:37:15] <kwallace> Or rather I bottom my panels.
[18:37:30] <PetefromTn_> I admit I have little experience with NGCGUI but does it look similar to what they have now?
[18:38:18] <seb_kuzminsky> no, it looks very different
[18:38:40] <seb_kuzminsky> it's just away to write conversational gcode generators, it doesnt have all the nice graphincs that the pp gui does
[18:39:25] <PetefromTn_> that is kinda what impressed me so much about the PP... it looks pretty well done and I was hoping we would see some of that brought into linuxCNC
[18:39:43] <seb_kuzminsky> i wonder how andy's conversational thingies are implemented?
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros
[18:39:56] <seb_kuzminsky> i'd love to see it brought in too
[18:41:26] <PetefromTn_> Andy's lathe macro looks quite impressive and this is the kind of thing that will I think move LinuxCNC forward and give a more professional feel than it already has.
[18:41:42] <seb_kuzminsky> i agree, it looks super professional and useful
[18:41:55] <seb_kuzminsky> i haven't tried it, and i dont know if he ever pushed it to our repo
[18:42:36] <CaptHindsight> please, don't include this GUI
http://makergear.wdfiles.com/local--files/m2-getting-started/printrunannotated2.png
[18:42:49] <PetefromTn_> I only saw that one forum post thread.
[18:43:03] <Tom_itx> heh
[18:43:16] <PetefromTn_> what you don't like the rainbow sliders? hehe
[18:44:14] <kwallace> I seem to recall this was made for remote control with a small tablet.
[18:44:19] <CaptHindsight> acceptable only for radar screens and skeeball
[18:45:18] <PetefromTn_> kwallace so you think that it is possible to buy the software and configure it to any machine then?
[18:47:37] <seb_kuzminsky> ermagerd, 2.6.6 and 2.7.0~pre3 debs are rsyncing to linuxcnc.org now
[18:47:46] <seb_kuzminsky> i'll send out an announcement tonight
[18:47:58] <cradek> yay!
[18:48:03] <seb_kuzminsky> :-)
[18:48:09] <cradek> you're the wind beneath our wings
[18:48:17] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm pretty excited about how 2.7 is shaping up
[18:48:45] <seb_kuzminsky> lots of good stuff from lots of people (including tormach, whom i will publicly thank in the announcement)
[18:49:01] <Tom_itx> can't wait to get this darn mill back up to try it...
[18:49:19] <seb_kuzminsky> bbl
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[18:59:08] <kwallace> PetefromTn, That's a hard question to answer well. PPi wasn't designed to work with other hardware but just as LinuxCNC/AXIS was used to make PPi, PPi could be used as a base. The amount of work depends on how different your machine is from a Tormach. One thing that comes to mind, the Tormach mill and lathe use an a board with a PIC processor that controls the tool changer and other bits. This bit would need to be replaced.
[18:59:42] <kwallace> Just in case my last comment got trimmed:
[18:59:45] <kwallace> One thing that comes to mind, the Tormach mill and lathe use an a board with a PIC processor that controls the tool changer and other bits. This bit would need to be replaced.
[19:02:23] <PetefromTn_> so it is some sort of daughter card to go with the 5i25/6i25 then? I was more thinking about my lathe really.. but the mill would be nice to have the Convo features and whatnot as well.
[19:06:54] <kwallace> The card is controlled from digital and PWM pins from a ribbon cable from the mesa card.
[19:08:47] <kwallace> The state of the pins and frequency on the PWM tell the card what to do.
[19:09:54] <PetefromTn_> this is just for toolchanger control tho you are saying
[19:10:46] <Tom_itx> kwallace do you know what functions the PIC does?
[19:11:29] <Tom_itx> and do they communicate with it serially?
[19:14:01] <kwallace> One PIC function is to convert the PWM frequency to a tool position, which activates one of eight output pins. There is no serial comm.
[19:15:03] <PetefromTn_> I would imagine there is a setup or config where this is disabled because not everyone has the toolchanger or is willing to pay for it.
[19:15:48] <kwallace> I think the presence of the changer is checked as the UI loads.
[19:16:54] <PetefromTn_> so this hardware will come with every machine regardless if it has the toolchanger or not? just trying to determine if this could be disabled somehow.
[19:20:42] <kwallace> That's a good question. Now that you mention it, the UI alarms if the PIC board is not on, which is controlled by the e-stop/machine on buttons.
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[19:25:45] <PetefromTn_> so you intend to take this PP program and alter it and put it on your HNC then?
[19:25:45] <seb_kuzminsky> ok, the debs are up, let me know if you see any problems
[19:28:39] <kwallace> I've given it some thought, getting it done is another thing.
[19:32:03] <PetefromTn_> well if you were responsible for the graphical layout and all of that conversational stuff I am sure it will be a piece of cake for you.
[19:37:28] <kwallace> Rogge did the layout of the UI. Basically, I filled in the slot he left for the conversational section. Others fill in other bits. It's only software.
[19:38:06] <skunkworks> another person that wants the tool to stay still and the 'path' to move..
[19:38:07] <skunkworks> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/20-g-code/28878-x-axes-continuos
[19:38:24] <skunkworks> (in the preview)
[19:39:03] <seb_kuzminsky> upgrading from 2.6.5 to 2.6.6 works, and pulls in tclx just like it's supposed to
[19:40:56] <PetefromTn_> kwallace LOL to me that is akin to saying it is ONLY Chinese arithmetic...
[19:42:37] <seb_kuzminsky> 2.7.0~pre3 looks good too (i only tested sim/uspace, not rtai)
[19:52:23] <skunkworks> I could see GEOMETRY = XYZ -> $XYZ would anchor the X axis so the preview would move instead of the tooltip. OR $X$YZ would anchor the tool tip in X and Y
[19:52:44] <skunkworks> probably smop ;)
[19:53:49] <kwallace> skunkworks, did you see my page here?
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/LinuxCNC/fourth_axis/
[19:54:20] <kwallace> or rather, have you seen
[19:55:02] <skunkworks> a bit - yes - I know you are kinda talking about the same feature (moving the 'path' instead of the 'tool'
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[21:26:02] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/histo c91a6e9 06linuxcnc 03lib/hallib/hal_procs_lib.tcl 10lib/hallib/hookup_moveoff.tcl 10lib/hallib/xhc-hb04.tcl 10scripts/moveoff_gui hal_procs_lib.tcl: consolidate common procs * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=c91a6e9
[21:26:02] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Dewey Garrett 05dgarr/histo 98930ba 06linuxcnc 10(9 files in 6 dirs) hal-histogram: histogram util for s32,float pins * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=98930ba
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[22:23:43] <PCW> hal-histogram sounds neat! , will have to try
[22:25:27] <seb_kuzminsky> i think it's like latency-histogram, but for arbitrary s32 and float pins
[22:28:21] <PCW> Yeah, nice for looking at ferror or function times from a different angle
[22:29:19] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah
[22:29:34] <PCW> that reminds me, it would be nice if the histograms displayed the min and max
[22:29:38] <seb_kuzminsky> dgarr keeps doing neat useful projects :-)
[22:29:46] <PCW> yeah
[22:30:40] <PCW> And thanks for your getting 2.6.6 and 2.7-pre3 out
[22:31:45] <seb_kuzminsky> sure thing! i still need to send out the announcement, maybe on the bus on the way home tonight
[22:32:39] <Tom_itx> is that on the buildbot site now?
[22:32:55] <seb_kuzminsky> the debs are at linuxcnc.org (and at the buildbot)
[22:33:32] <PCW> hmm wonder if my kernel compile loop is going to wear out my SSD...
[22:33:55] <seb_kuzminsky> build in a ram disk?
[22:34:41] <PCW> trying to torture the machine, RAMdisk is probably not as much of a rt issue
[22:36:27] <PCW> iceweasel has some issues (it never exits cleanly for me)
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[22:44:26] <seb_kuzminsky> build in a ramdisk while running 'sudo find / -type f -exec md5sum \{\} \;'? to turn all the disk activity into reads, no writes to wear out the... transistors or whatever
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[23:09:41] <PCW> will try
[23:30:33] <andypugh> I am impressed with the silly games you can play with SVG
[23:32:09] <andypugh> http://www.bodgesoc.org/newfile_script.svg?2 It contains 19mm of slices. Change the number at the end and an embedded script enables/disables different layers.
[23:34:38] <seb_kuzminsky> neat, i didn't know svg could do that
[23:35:59] <seb_kuzminsky> is that an inkscape extension, or an svg feature? i see this in the file: inkscape:label="layer_1"
[23:37:42] <andypugh> No, that tag was just so I could view layers in Inkscape.
[23:37:53] <seb_kuzminsky> are you 3d printing stuff now?
[23:38:07] <andypugh> It’s the slicer:Z tag that is used, but the little script at the beginning.
[23:38:35] <andypugh> No, this was for a friend with a DLP. I was interested in playing around with the Inventor API.
[23:40:09] <andypugh> This is the slicer in action, the SVG is directly exported:
http://youtu.be/hefY46fyVvU
[23:42:58] <andypugh> He is using the DLP to make patterns for investment casting model engine parts.
[23:43:27] <seb_kuzminsky> nice
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[23:43:43] <seb_kuzminsky> i like the idea of skipping the mesh format all together
[23:43:59] <andypugh> It seems logical, doesn’t it
[23:44:37] <andypugh> Though currently the Inventor B-splines are exported as short line segments while I figure out how to convert to Bezier.
